Speaker 1Hey, what's happening? Welcome back to the James Kennedy podcast. I hope you're all doing awesome. Just want to say a massive, massive thank you to everybody that's chipped in for the band's crowdfunder so far. We appreciate every single last one of you and you are literally enabling James Kennedy and the underdogs to do a crazy thing, man. And we are going to be hitting the road in a matter of weeks to play new songs of the new album. We got new videos coming. We got loads of new stuff coming. It's going to be a kick-ass year, man. We cannot wait to see all of you sexy people again. But that's about all I got to report at this end, to be honest, man. We're just like work, work, work at the moment, getting everything ready for the album. So I think today we'll just cut to the chase, bring on the guests, because boy, we got a good one for you. And let's see what's happening in their world. If you haven't yet subscribed to the podcast, come on, get with it, man. What are you doing? This thing is free. It takes literally a second to just click subscribe, click follow, click the star rating, whatever you got to do, just click something. Doesn't take you long, costs you no money, and really, really helps me out. And it means you don't miss any of these awesome episodes, because we got some killer ones coming. So click that damn button, man. Help a brother out. Okay, let's do it. Today's guest can only be described as a guitar guru, a musical master of many genres who's been giving us all the good stuff for over five decades. And he certainly shows no sign of slowing down anytime soon. I don't have him for very long, so let's get into it and welcome onto the show, Mr. Robin Ford. How the devil are you, sir?
Speaker 2I'm fine. I'm in the big transition right now of moving from London, UK, where we've been living for about three years, three years plus, but we're moving to Italy, and I'm right now in Tuscany doing some visa things. Oh, tough life. Well, it's not easy. Let me tell you something. It's very difficult to move from one country to another, and the Italian bureaucracy is crazy.
Speaker 1I can imagine. Yeah, I can imagine. But I think it's going to be worth the payoff because that's a beautiful part of the world, man.
Speaker 2Yeah, and wonderful people, man.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah. Oh, that is my dream. That is my dream, dude. I want to move to somewhere Europe on the Mediterranean. So yeah, maybe I'll tap you up at some point in the future about that bureaucracy you mentioned. But we've got to talk about your new album. Two Shades of Blue is coming out in a matter of weeks. What I've heard so far sounds absolutely incredible. Can you tell us about the album, please?
Speaker 2It's kind of in two parts. Even the title, Two Shades of Blue, wasn't due to the way it ended up, but it's sort of fit to explain. Basically, the record started off as a tribute to Jeff Beck and to Alexander Dumble, the gent who made my amplifiers for many years. Both of them are gone. And Jeff Beck's playing really came to me later in life. He wasn't an a big influence in my real development, you know. So the desire to tribute him, you know, included being able to kind of approach the guitar in a different way, to write music in a different way. And I was in need of some fresh, you know, inspiration. So this really was something I really enjoyed that the concept, I put the band together, I started playing the Stratocaster, working with the vibrato bar. This was new for me. Working with pedals much more, because I'm pretty much a guitar into the amplifier guy. And writing, you know, instrumental music that came out of Jeff Beck's approach, I felt anyway, the best I could do. Not being able to play like him, I could tribute him, you know.
Speaker 1Yeah, well, that's a tall order right there, man. I mean, you know, Jeff Beck is, he's got such a unique thing that he does, you know, it's...
Speaker 2He's the cat.
Speaker 1Oh, 100%.
Speaker 2Exactly. And so I don't claim to play like him, but just be influenced and tribute him. So I put together, you know, what I considered an amazing band, and we recorded in, at Sweetwater Studios in Fort Wayne, Indiana, which is an incredible facility that I've just come to really love. And the people there are wonderful, Sweetwater. And we went in there for a week and recorded, and I only came away with three things that I really felt I was willing to put on a record. So that was a little bit of a disappointment. And I came back to the UK, and I'm like, so what am I going to do? And I put together my British group, which is primarily Ianto Thomas is the drummer, Johnny Henderson on B3 organ. We went into the studio and recorded more along the lines of what I normally do. You know, blues oriented and vocal music, not just instrumental music. So it became two records in one. And I'm actually pretty happy about that. When we went out on the road and we're playing primarily the instrumental music, you know, and I toured two weeks in Italy after recording the record. And long before it came out, clearly. I missed the vocals myself. I just felt like, you know, I know that people like to hear the singing, you know, they want to hear, they like to hear songs, and then play, you know. So I'm happy even though it originally was meant to be, you know, a pretty much straight up instrumental tribute to Jeff Beck album, that it became more than that in terms of the variety.
Speaker 1Right. Wow.
Speaker 2And so that's how the record evolved.
Speaker 1Wow, that's really interesting. It really is an amalgamation of lots of different things coming together. And what is a really cohesive sound from the bits that I've heard so far.
Speaker 2It's nice to hear you say that, because everyone says that. Everyone's kind of surprised. Why does this work? Because it's disparate, kind of, you know. Yes. But it does.
Speaker 1Yeah. Oh, it really does. It really does. It really does. Yeah. Well, you've sort of already alluded to one of the things I wanted to ask you, because for someone that has done so much music and been in the game as long as you have and has been so consistently prolific with your output, how do you stay inspired? You've done so much already. You've covered so much ground. You know your instrument. You're a master of your instrument. You know the instrument so well. How do you at this point stay inspired? I mean, you've already mentioned one example there with this particular album, but is that something that, is that an obstacle for you that you have to surmount regularly? Do you have a way around that?
Speaker 2Well, as mentioned, I was looking for inspiration, you know. And when I moved to Europe from Nashville, basically after the COVID thing, kind of, I was kind of done with the US. And I had always wanted, I've been wanting to live in Europe for many, many years. So coming over was sort of, I wasn't, you know, making music wasn't on the front burner. Change of lifestyle was what was important to me. So I would work from time to time. And the first year was spent in France. I had a French group that I really like. And I would just do things, you know, like a couple of gigs, you know, five, six weeks would go by, you know, go do three shows, you know. And so it was really much more about the lifestyle change, trying to get relocated, you know, which I've been doing ever since. But so when I was ready to record again, but I didn't know what. And it struck me to do a Jeff Beck tribute because, you know, something I do always like to mention in interviews is the Robin Ford Guitar Dojo, which is the teaching platform that my partner and I have developed. I've spent a lot more time with the guitar since the development of the platform, and it's gotten me more into the guitar. Whereas my focus in the past was really to develop myself as a singer and as a songwriter. Right. And I felt I'm good with the guitar playing, you know, cool. But after I started teaching, I started kind of challenging myself to come up with new things. So focus on the guitar, I thought, tribute to Jeff Beck. This is a challenge that I'm going to have to man up for, you know. So that was it. You know, it was like, that's how I kickstarted, you know, myself, even playing the Stratocaster, which, you know, I really, really like, you know, the Stratocaster, which I really, really have never featured the Strat on my own. I've used it in more of a supportive role. You know, with Miles Davis, I played the Strat. David Sanborn, I played the Strat. Whenever I was doing something as a supportive artist, you know.
Speaker 1Love that. I love that. So you sort of almost gave yourself a new mountain to climb as a new challenge. I love that. I love that. That's something that I think everybody can take something away from. And you've worked with so many of the greats. And you've mentioned, you've mentioned a few already. But who, whether you've worked with them or not, or whether they're still with us or not, Which of the musicians that you still continue to be perplexed by today? I mean, for me, it was someone who you just can't understand how they're so goddamn good. For me, it would be someone like John Coltrane. I mean, was that man even human? I don't know. I think he came from space. Do you have your version of that, whether you've worked with them or not? You look at them today and think, I have no idea how they did that.
Speaker 2Well, if it's human, even the living and those who have left us, I mean, certainly Coltrane would fall into that category. As a guitarist, Alan Holsworth is the guy who, to me, is the most incomprehensible. And he, for me, I think of him as the John Coltrane of the guitar.
Speaker 1100%.
Speaker 2So those two, yeah.
Speaker 1100%. 100%. Yeah. Equally a spaceman, from space for sure, Alan Holsworth. I saw him live in Wales, where I live in the UK. And for the first five minutes, it was hilarious because it was full of guitar players. The God had walked into the room and we were preparing to get our minds blown. And he didn't know how to turn his amplifier on for five minutes.
Speaker 2Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1There you go. You're like, he is human. Well, yeah, I totally concur. With your choices there. Like I say, you know, you've played with so many of the greats and you've done so much musically. And you've been a part of so many major historical moments in music history. And you've lived a lot of life at the same time, I'm sure. So to steer away from music for a second, what life lessons have you learned from your very unique life journey that you've had to this point?
Speaker 2Hmm. Uh, wow. Life lessons. It's a big one. I mean, I've certainly learned life lessons, you know. Okay, let's see. You have to be yourself. It's really important, you know, for young people, you know, to learn, you know. I mean, the whole point of life lessons is to pass them on, right? Yes. So that hopefully somebody who is young will actually get it. Before it's, you know, they're old or whatever. So, yeah, you need to be yourself. I also feel it's really important to follow your passion and not get caught in, you know, some, you know, a job that you don't like. Right. Or especially a job that you can't stand, you know. Just don't do it. And in music, I've always felt, if I may, because that's been my life. My life has been a life in music. And as a musician, whenever I was trying to do something that wasn't organic to myself, it was a big mistake, you know. Thankfully, I didn't waste too much time doing that, you know. But I was in Los Angeles at an early age. I was in Los Angeles at an early age. I was in Los Angeles at an early age. I was in Los Angeles at an early age. I was in Los Angeles at an early age. I was in Los Angeles at an early age. You know, and good things happened to me there, but I was never really comfortable in the environment. Right. However, it seemed to be central headquarters for popular music. So I actually tried to, you know, write music, record music that could be popular.
Speaker 1Right, right.
Speaker 2In a traditional sense. And it was the most miserable time of my life. You know, in L.A., I've never liked L.A., you know. And the day that I said, I can't stand it here, I'm getting out of here. And I did. And I moved up to San Francisco, you know, on my own and got a place. My oldest friend, we weren't that old at the time, but my closest old friend. And he moved in with me, you know. And it was really a reset for myself. It got better after that. Just everything got better after that. And I would say continue to just kind of go up. You know, I replugged in, you know, to my roots. Right. I knew that I was fundamentally a blues guitar player who happened to like sophisticated music and, you know, wanted to learn, you know, more and more about harmony. And, you know, do interesting things, you know. Not just make music, you know, not make hamburgers, you know. Right, right.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2I wanted to be a gourmet chef. So, you know, it takes a big commitment, man. I was broke, you know. I went through all of that after playing with superstars, you know. Wow. I started all over again, you know, because I couldn't do the thing. And it paid off.
Speaker 1So, I suppose. The lesson underneath that is that you stay true to what you're true, what you felt was your true calling inside. You weren't happy with the environment. You felt that. You changed it. And from there, a whole cascade of more positive things happened for you because you were in true alignment with you.
Speaker 2Yeah. There is. That's a really, really good way to, a good word to use. Alignment with, you know, it's hard to say. You could say yourself. There's something. There's something kind of funny about that because you are yourself, you know. But how else do you put it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But I do think that we come into this world with a trajectory. There is. You know, some would call it karma, you know, for instance. And I'm Buddhist. Okay. And I still, you know, I haven't got, you know, a set idea of what karma is. But again, what you said, it was perfect, you know, alignment with what is going on with you. And you can struggle with it and fight it and try to make it different and stuff. It's all wrong, you know.
Speaker 1Amen, man. Well, I'd love to quickly touch on the spirituality and the Buddhism stuff, if you're okay with it, before we circle back to the rock and roll. Because I'd love to just get a quick overview of your history with these, like, sort of spiritual areas. And also, what role, if any, do you find yourself in? Do you feel that it has an informing or influence in, you know, what you do with music?
Speaker 2Well, I first encountered, in a real way, you know, a Buddhist teacher. His name was Chogyam Trungpa. Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, Tibetan Lama. And he was in Boulder, Colorado. And after I toured with, the first tour with Joni Mitchell and George Harrison, those two tours happened literally the same year. And I had a bunch of money. I didn't know quite what I was going to do with myself. And I moved to Boulder, Colorado. Because I had come to, I'd gone through there and I just loved it. I loved Boulder. So, I had time and money and we went to Boulder and lived there for a year. And became students of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche during that period. He was speaking regularly and it was a... You throw a rock and you'd hit a Buddhist, you know. In Boulder in those days. And so, you know, that's where it began. And I've always been interested in spiritual pursuits, you know. Right, right. I've read every type of religion, you know, book, you know, all of it. The Torah. And I started doing that in my teens. For whatever the reasons. I was... I was very drawn towards that. And music. And these are the two things that, you know, have really been my, you know, where my energy has gone. Right. I love that. Two things I've been drawn towards, you know.
Speaker 1I love that.
Speaker 2Yeah. And, you know, Buddhism demands authenticity. So, you have to be authentic. You know, you have to be true to yourself. However you put that. You know, if the answer is yes, it's yes. If the answer is no, it's no. I'll tell you what, the best word I ever learned in my life was no.
Speaker 1Huh.
Speaker 2I went through a period, you know, because I toured the world, you know. Especially with my group, The Blue Line, man. We were on the road for, you know, many years straight. And when we were on the road, we were recording a record. Right. Or I was writing a record. And, you know, so that band... You know, I finally had to bail, you know. And eventually started doing different things. And, you know, promoters and agents, you know, wanted to put me into the same rooms that I'd been playing already. I just said, no. I'm not doing that anymore. We're doing something different now. I mean, you have to be... Take a chance. Right, right, right. I mean, there were no guarantees that was going to work out. But it was great. And so... It was like... I just started saying no to anything that did not resonate well with me. So, there you go, you know.
Speaker 1I love that. Wow. Well, man, we... I hope... Oh, but we can do another one of these sometime because I'd love to do a whole feature on that because I'm fascinated by those areas as well. Spirituality, there's a lot of existential things that I grapple with still at this point. So it would be great to tap your knowledge on that at some point. But obviously, we've got to keep this one about the rock and roll. So I'm going to try and segue back to rock and roll from where we just were. As well as living a lot of life and learning a lot of lessons, which you've been kind enough to share some of with us so far, you've also seen the music industry change a lot from the time when you started. It was a very different industry, and now you're still doing your thing and flying high now, and it's a very, very different industry. We've got streaming. People don't really buy records anymore. There's AI coming, musicians coming up today who were inspired by yourself, and they're practicing their instruments. They're going out into a very different industry. Do you have any thoughts on the industry today? Is it better? Is it worse? And do you have any words of inspiration or encouragement maybe for young guys coming up in this industry today?
Speaker 2Yeah. Wow. I don't know what it's like to be 20 anymore. I know what it was like to be 20 when I was 20. And there were tons of possibilities, it seemed. In those days, it was still, you know, like, no guarantees, you know? I mean, I was poor, you know, living with my band, you know, all in one house and all of that, you know, people sleeping on the couches and, you know, whatever. But I got lucky, you know. I was heard by Jimmy Witherspoon with my little group. I think I was 20. I was still 20. And Spoon hired us. We moved to Hollywood. We moved to L.A. And we all got a house together in Hollywood, you know. Rents were cheaper. You know, the house was, you know, probably, you know, 100 bucks a month maybe, you know, or 120 a month or whatever. Bad neighborhood, you know. But you have five guys and, okay, it's 25 bucks each a month, you know. And you were making about 25. So, you know, that gave me some exposure that led to my being hired by the L.A. Express and Joni Mitchell. So suddenly, just out of nowhere, you know, I was suddenly playing with very high-end musicians, one of the greatest, you know, female artists of all time, traveling first class, you know, and making a lot of money. So, that, I don't know, man. It seems those days might be kind of gone. You know, I don't know. It's a tough one. So, I don't, wow. Especially for those of us who truly love music, that's what we want to do is make music, you know. The demand to be commercial is heavier and heavier. And you make no money on record sales. You have to perform. And where are you going to perform? I mean, it's just, it's awful today. I hate to say it, but wow. You know, I can work because of my history. But it costs a lot more to travel now. Bells cost a lot more, you know. You can't, it costs you a couple of thousand dollars to get your musical instruments, you know, from London to Paris. So, you can't take them. And you have to pick. You have to use gear that's already there. It's just, everything, even for me, is difficult, you know. It's not ideal. Who has those kind of ideal circumstances any longer, you know. Sort of like the salad days, you know, the golden era seems to be gone. So, I don't know, man, you know. I really don't know. And I started teaching a long time ago, you know, as a source of income. You know, I didn't do it for fun. I've come to love it. And now I get from it. You know what I mean? It's become this beautiful, self-perpetuating thing. The Robin Ford Guitar Dojo dot com. Check it out. It's a mouthful. Robin Ford Guitar Dojo. D-O-J-O dot com.
Speaker 1But that's why I referred to you at the start as a guitar guru. And little did I know that you were a spiritual guru as well. Oh, hell I am not.
Speaker 2No, no, no.
Speaker 1Well, I mean. I mean, I totally agree with everything you're saying. I'm a musician myself. I'm performing in a hard rock band. And we do encounter all of the things that you just mentioned. But there's a certain kind of confirmation that comes from hearing someone like yourself say that you also experienced some of those things. So, it's not just us going through it. It's the changing territory that's affecting everybody. So, there's a certain solace to come from that as well.
Speaker 2Well, and if I may, you know. As said, if it's what you want to do, you should do it. And who knows what's going to come of that, you know? You just don't know. Everything points towards something, you know. And generally something terrible. But not necessarily, you know.
Speaker 1Love it. Love it. Well, Robin, we've only got a few minutes left. So, apologies for the fact that I'm rattling through these questions at warp speed. I'm trying to make sure we get everything in. Go ahead. Go ahead. I've got one more question. And it's a personal one for myself. I'm being selfish because I'm a guitar player. And I've been playing guitar for about 20 years. I'm a rock and blues guy. That's my background. I can do all the fancy rock stuff. But speaking of challenges, I'm fascinated by jazz music. I listen to a lot of it. And I know nothing about it. And I want that to be my next challenge. So, what can I do as a rock pentatonic guy to get myself down the... To start myself on the journey of the wonderful, mysterious, magical world of jazz guitar?
Speaker 2One thing you could do is join the Robin Ford Guitar Dojo. Sincerely, because I am self-taught, you know, and I'm blues-based. And so, I learned everything on my own. The first course in the dojo, which you can do things in whatever order you want, you know. But the first course is called Guitar The Way I Learned It. So, I start with the pentatonic scale and just keep going. And beyond that, I'll tell you what I did, which was... Because I was just a blues guitar player, you know, playing Mike Bloomfield and B.B. Kinglicks. I got a book, Mickey Baker Jazz Volume 1. Okay. And I learned chords. So, I suddenly, instead of just having a seventh chord or a ninth chord, I had a thirteenth chord. I had a thirteenth flat nine chord. I learned altered chords and how they move and take you from here to there. And then, I literally, I remember it to this day vividly. I'm on the bandstand and I'm... Well, that was the first realization. I'm like, I don't know any chords. I'm playing a ninth chord here, a ninth chord there. We're blues, you know. And some cowboy chords, you know, G, C, D. So, okay, I learned the chords. And then, I realized... I don't know what to play on these chords, you know. So, I got a book and I learned scales. And I approached altered scales and, you know, just diatonic movement, you know. What happens with modes, which is just still just the major scale starting on a different note. Right. So, okay, you know. And I developed some knowledge and I applied it. To the guitar in the same way that I had the pentatonic scale. Huh. You know what I mean? Like, you learn the pentatonic scale and you just play it. You know you're not going to hit a wrong note. Just keep playing them notes. Them five notes all over the guitar. So, okay, diminished scale. Just play it, you know. That's how I applied it. And eventually, started making some music with it, you know.
Speaker 1Fascinating. Right. Well, I will take your advice on that and many others. Many other things that you've said in this wonderful, but unfortunately short conversation, Robin. Thank you so much for the inspiration for the years of music. We've got to plug the brand new album. Two Shades of Blue will be released on the 27th of March by ProVogue and R-Tone Records. It is available to pre-order everywhere right now. Go and get it in your life. Robin, this has been a real honor. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you stopping by our humble podcast and gracing us with your pearls of wisdom.
Speaker 2My pleasure, James. And if I may, I always... I always like to say, remember that streaming is for kids. And you can't stream a cup of coffee.
Speaker 1Love it. Love it. James, it's been a pleasure, man. Thank you. Really great to meet you, Robin. I appreciate you. Thank you so much, brother. Best wishes with the album. Thank you. Robin Ford, ladies and gentlemen. What an absolute gentleman and an absolute beast on the instrument. Man, that guy has had an insane life. That guy has played with miles. Miles Davis, for God's sake. And he still sounds as grounded and as hungry and as inspired. inspired and is curious and is passionate about the craft as ever before and his new album rocks honestly check it out two shades of blue is coming out on march the 27th trust me you need this in your life you could pre-order it right now from wherever you get your music from and for all the guitar players out there check out the robin ford guitar dojo i myself will most certainly be doing that as part of my long-term plan to relocate to somewhere nice and sunny on the mediterranean join a jazz band and spend my days playing jazz eating good food and sunning it up just haven't figured out how i'm gonna pay for it all but i hope you enjoyed that conversation i thought you was a super cool dude dropped some serious pearls of wisdom on life and music and art and living and spirituality and all that stuff we squeezed quite a lot into a short conversation so i hope you enjoyed it as much as i did and you can check out robin at robinford.com and on instagram at robinford music and if he rolls into your table you make sure you get yourself there man okay that is us for this week thanks for listening i'll be back next time with another awesome guest in the meantime click that goddamn subscribe button what is wrong with you man come on and have a great week look after yourself look after each other
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