765v power line with Tim Woodhouse

I knew my grandfather signed the first lease, first Eastman agreements in our area when they built that line. And it's due to be replaced. I mean, it's aged out. There was no question of that. But when you started looking into the information that gave you about the size of the project, it's like, okay, somebody probably should have mentioned that they don't make them any bigger than this. - Same, that's the same, yeah, exactly, see? - This is a completely wild ride. That's whole everything involved with all of this is a wild ride. - How did you get started with the Maribel project? - Opposition, I should clarify that. - Yeah, so it kind of started with one of the representatives from the company, stopping at the town shop and was like, boy, this is a beautiful area. I'm looking for some contact information of the town clerk. I worked for a Darryland power. They were gonna upgrade a transmission line. Like, nothing out of the ordinary that's completely normal type stuff. And then about a week or two later, after I gave that guy his information. But he commented, oh, what a beautiful area this is. And I'm like, well, if you work for them, you live around. Like, I thought that was odd, like I'm ending on the area. And then a couple of weeks later, I got a letter in the mail. My property is targeted for this Maribel transmission project. So that's kind of where it all started. - Right. - And then as I started doing the research on it, it's like, no, this isn't a replacement. - This isn't like an update. Like this, I guess you kind of called an update, but it's not. - Yeah, I think-- - It's not like, hey, your lines aren't good enough anymore, or like they're breaking down or something like that. We need to replace them. - Right, yeah. And that was, everybody in our coalition kind of had the same initial feeling as me. I knew my grandfather signed the first least first Eastman agreements in our area when they built that line. You know, there was no question of that. This is the inner state of transmission. This is mega transmission line. And that part kind of got left out and I think conveniently for them. - Yeah, it's like, why is this, this isn't, like, why does it have to be 200 feet tall? - Right, right. - A massive, massive line. And that's like, for me, I think like the current justification as to why it's gonna benefit us is it's going to stabilize the, like, transmission throughout our county, right? It's just supposed to make our grid more stable. I think is what they're saying, right? That's a solid point they said, the Midwest apparently is missing a backbone. I, you know, somewhere along the line, a backbone wasn't part of the structure and this is supposed to be that backbone. So I don't, honestly, I don't get it, but it's not for me to. - It's like why I haven't, I've only been living here for three years, but you've been living here your whole life, right? - Yep, yep. - Like, I haven't seen any massive power problems here. I think the power has been out for here for like five minutes in the past, like twice for five minutes for the past like three years that I've been here, and that's been it. - Yeah, no, right, and what's the big problem? - Right, and that's where draws a confusion because we've all lived here. There's never been a rolling blackout. We're all kind of left wondering, okay, the coal plant and, you know, I feel like that was everybody's sense of security as far as stability with the grid as you could drive by and see the power plant. Those were all local people in Genoa, yeah, in Genoa. And those are all local people working there. If there ever was a hiccup, like you knew the people that would be called into work to come and fix the problem so we could get the juice flowing again, and that's been taken away from us. And then we all assumed they have 90 acres of land on that vacant area, like if something's gonna happen, that's where something is gonna happen. We're waiting for that to be announced or something. And no, it was all this upgrade of a transmission line. Like what? - Right, so then, where are we like standing at in terms of the project? 'Cause the last time I talked about, I've had two podcasts about this. The last time would have been in March, yeah, because it was over my spring break. And we had just put in a resolution to get like some questions answered about the project. But I just don't know where we're at and since then in terms of like, what do we know about who's behind it? Like we know it's MISO, but at the time, we didn't actually know a specific individual in MISO that existed. - Right, yeah, which is kind of like a crazy thing to me. It's just like, if you're going to ask us to do something like this, at least have like the guts to go and actually ask it of us, yourself, don't just like deviate this to like lower powers to go and do it. And then when we're asking questions, not give them the information necessary, which was the story at the time. So I'm just wondering like where are we at in terms of the actual process of how this is like being done and all of that. Like what's the latest head news about it? - Yeah, so I think for the project itself, we expect that any time now this will be filed, the proposal will be filed officially with the State of Wisconsin, the Public Service Commission. We anticipate that at any time, that was their early announcement, that would be fall of this year. So has it been filed yet? We anticipate that to happen at any time. There's been like two rounds reported from the landowners in our coalition, like two rounds of survey crews, various, not sure exactly what all they were doing. Most people then cooperate for the expanded survey agreement. They just use. - They're just like asking them questions about like what would it take to sell or something like that? Or do you not really know what the survey was about? - No, I think it was a lot of environmental stuff. So they physically sent people out to the transmission line, the existing corridor, and had teams, maybe archaeology, I'm not exactly sure. - Environmental impacts. - Yeah, gathering information. Or what was probably required in the application, the preliminary stuff. Not a lot of information shared to the landowners about specifics of what they were looking for, and sharing and whatnot. But that's all gone quiet. And it's about the timeframe that they announced for the application. So we expect that to happen. And then I think then this is really going to build up a head of steam as far as the Maribel part, because that's when people can engage with public comments and all the different things. - Right, yeah. Because like what power do we have right now to actually oppose it other than like the stuff that we're doing right now, like you and I trying to put information out about it. - Yeah, so the part of the reason for the landowner coalition to come together was a legal strategy developed through guidance with our attorneys. We filed an Inverna County Court for an injunction against this project based on that it's not needed. - So it is like a lawsuit, basically? - Yeah, yeah. It's not asking for any money. It's just asking for the court to rule that this is a public nuisance or public private nuisance. And then that court date is in October. So we're coming up pretty fast on that. So that's one of the movements of the landowners in the coalition. Once it's filed with the PSC, there's opportunity for landowners, the public. You know, that's one thing I think is a little misunderstood because I'm talking as a landowner, but also if you're a rate payer, - Right, because just to clarify, the line will actually go through your property, correct? - Yeah, so out of Genoa, they're gonna cross the Mississippi River where the old coal plant used to be in Genoa. And then they had towards the bluff, they have to give two routes to the state of Wisconsin. - Sure. - That PSC would choose a route more appropriate, but they have to develop each of them equally. Unfortunately for us and our family, where that route starts is both the primary and the secondary. The primary comes dangerously, I say dangerously, but it is to me close to my house. - Right, so. - And then our farm where we keep the cattle. - Yeah, so you were talking about landowners versus rate payers in the county and like, yeah, so one thing, you know what, I guess I'll speak to as the landowners and the coalition because. We're directly impacted, you know, they use the term eminent domain, you know, they see the land to seize the land to get the corridor established. And they are actually talking about using that. Yeah. If they were to get the state's permission, like that has to come from the government though. Right. That has to come from the P.S. There's three people that would decide that at the P.S.C., the first round of that would be negotiations with the land owners, but if you can't come to some type of consensus as far as what your land value is or how that whole process, then they turn to the use of eminent domain where now you're kind of, you know, let yourself out of that old situation. And that's not something that we feel is right in this, I mean, you know, we've got easements for transmission lines, but nothing, the size, scope, and scale. This will be the largest proposed transmission line in the state of Wisconsin. Yeah, the closest ones in Ohio, right? Right. I believe that's true. Yeah. I think that's what Carl said when I talked to him on the podcast. Yeah. I think that's the next closest, right? Yeah. So nothing like this has ever happened in Wisconsin. But isn't like, this project is still going to affect, like, just general people within the county, like, it's going to affect everybody in the county as ratepayers. Yeah. And not just like you can have the attitude and you can probably speak more to this than I can, but like, it's not like you can just have the attitude of, well, it's not going through my property. I'm like 10, 15 miles away, so I don't need to worry about this. Like it's still going to have an impact on you. And then when you get into the whole transient current thing, which is what Travis and I talked about for the most part in my first podcast about this, you don't know what that impact is. Right, yeah, and so to speak to the ratepayers, so if you are, if you can hear this and you are paying an electrical bill, you will be on the hook for, for the cost of this project. And I think this portion of it, the original, and this is, you know, a lot of, it's just so crazy. These different things. The original cost was estimated between $400 and $900 million. That's always going to kill up. Well, that's, you know, I could you imagine as a farmer going to the bank and saying, I want to borrow some money. I don't know if it's going to be $400 million or $900, like, that's, but then it's also like, it's, it's like a soft, like, okay, it's only going to be like four or five hundred million. Actually, it's going to be like six or seven and it's like, we might be nine. Yeah. And by the time the numbers start rolling in, it's going to be so far beyond that. I mean, just the way everything's going, there's no way it could be less than that. So, yeah. And that's the, it's just for the like, Maribel liners at the whole thing. Yeah. No, that's because we're talking about the major declare fair. We're talking about the Maribel line. It's just a section of the line. Right. Yeah. So that Maribel starts in Marion, Minnesota, is one portion. And then it ends in Bell Center, Wisconsin. So, and then our coalition of landowners because of the way the laws and the jurisdictions in the states, the coalition against Maribel, 765 is a landowner coalition, starts in Genoa, Wisconsin, on the Wisconsin side of the river, and then ends in Bell Center, Wisconsin. That's our group of folks who have organized to basically protect our landowner rights. So. Yeah. That's cool. It's been a very cool thing to watch happen locally, and it's like every, I feel like every time I drive down a road, I see more and more of the like, no, 765 lines, like each time I, yeah, and I think, you know, locally, like, you know, we've been given no hope anywhere. Politicians like, oh, no, you know, Tonship, no, we can pass the resolution, but we can't stop this county. Oh, I don't know. And then, you know, that's part of what the frustrating thing is because they feel like they have no local control, and part of my problem is why not? Like this is what we're supposed to be like our government is designed that we do have local control over stuff like this. Yeah. I mean, this is the United States of America. You don't have control over the largest transmission line in the state of Wisconsin coming right out your door. Like somebody doesn't have to pull in your yard and say, hey, Tim, what do you think about this? I mean, we had me and my uncle sat down to those meetings early on, like open-minded, honest people just trying to figure out what it is. Yeah. I just want to understand this. Yep. And the first thing we, the first conversation was, okay, if there's nothing in it for me, how about my Tonship because I work for the Tonship because I can sacrifice a little bit for the people around me. Like, that's fine. Like we've got a transmission line running through, you know, hey, Captain Obvious, there's a transmission line here. We understand that's our sacrifice. We've owned this land for years, like, okay, nothing personally, okay, how about the Tonship? Well, you know, and all these vague answers, unopened boxes. And then the Tonship, so you bring it to the Tonship, they, they do all, you know, Tonships aren't an easy thing to persuade. They're, they're going to do what they're going to do. They're doing their own research. They oppose Maribel. Yep. So you turn to the, the county level, the next level of government, same thing. They're like, well, we got to look into this. We got to spend some time with this. We got to do our due diligence. And they come out with opposition to the, to the Maribel project. Now we turn to our state legislators and they say, well, the, the ones that will openly talk to you, they're like, you know, full disclosure. The lobbyists have made their way through the capital a year ago. And you're like, this is public infrastructure on a, on a supposedly needed thing. Why are we sending lobbyists around the capital to get this thing, you know, through the, through the door? It's the only way you get anything done in government is through lobbyists. No, apparently so, yeah, you know. So then, you know, after the lawmakers in the areas, I'm sure they're feeling the pressure, but they're also looking at this the same way the other two forms of government are and they're coming out to say we oppose this. So, yeah, it's also interesting because I interviewed somebody from a while back on local government signing NDAs for AI, for AI data centers. I don't know if you heard anything about that, but it was, I interviewed him for Wisconsin watch. That was it. I couldn't remember the journal. It was like, so insane to me that they could actually do that where a private company could come in to your local government and get you to sign an NDA so that they couldn't talk about this project actually going up and their defense against it was that it was, well, we don't want competitors to come in. And so that, that's wild to me. It's wild. We had they sent lobbyists in a year before they ever announced this project. Right. And it kind of connects there because I'm like, why the first people to know about this should be the ones affected by it. Right. Exactly. Honestly, it doesn't even have to be first. The people making the decision and the people affected by it need to hear about it at the same time. Yeah. And if there's any level of secrecy to it, that means that you know something probably isn't going to go your way if the people affected by it know about it. So maybe it just shouldn't be a thing in the first place. Exactly. I mean, you've done, you've hit it on the head a few years prior to this proposal on the primary route. They came through the landowners and the ones that they were able to contact. They said, hey, you know, we're looking to maintain our right of ways. These trees need to be peeled back, you know, some of these mature trees. And on one piece of property that I had, they were mature pines and the line crosses the Badx Valley. And I'm like, those are mature trees underneath the line. They're not going to get any taller. They won't go anywhere near. Sure. But I like walking over and turning the light switch and having electricity. So I'm like, do you know, I work for the township road right away. I get it. I'll do my part. Do what you need to do. And landowners in our coalition, most of them, same response. Some of them are like, we questioned why these 60 to 80-year-old oak trees all of a sudden needed to go when for 60 to 80 years they hadn't been a problem. And so there's a lot of confusion and a lot of anger about some of those trees being cut. Yeah, absolutely. You cut down a 80-year-old tree. It's like you're not going to be able to grow on that big in your life unless you're a year old. Yeah. Now, so they're confused about why this had to be. And then Maribel gets trapped in their lap and it's like, okay, now, you know, like. It kind of makes a little sense. Give me a bit of a heads up next time. It's so frustrating. So you know, it just, to me, it's like that was the preliminary work and none of us thought coming. Nobody had a clue that any of this was coming. Well, I mean, how could you have, you know? No. You can't guess that that's going to happen. Right. And that's where a lot of the anguish and anger and resentment and all these, you know, I'm on the Fire Department first responders. I said, the first public meetings that I attended were the developers put on, you know, this public input. And then our first few landowner coalition meetings. It was like. People in different stages of grief after a major traumatic event. They're like, you know, they didn't know where to turn They didn't know who to ask questions. They're upset that there's all these emotions in the room and it should have never had to Bend that way. Yeah, it just shouldn't be that way. Yeah, it's just like why couldn't we have been honest? Yeah, just be up front pulling the yard and say This big ugly thing is coming your way and you know, we'd like to talk to you about it. Yeah I think that's most people in Wisconsin would respect I've respect it more and I'd also be a lot more open to being okay with it Because right now I'm like, okay, so what haven't you told us like if you were that afraid to tell us about it up front from the start and being honest like What haven't you told us about it right now like what could you be hiding from you right now? There's just there's a level of trust that I can no longer have with it because you already did that right I would have been a lot more easier to convince That this was okay if you hadn't done that right, yeah, I think just establish that trust up front Yeah, and I you know, I think that leads to the next you know shoot a drop It's like okay this transmission line, but everybody Daily in the area drives by that 90 acre lot in Genoa That is now vacant gravel and we're saying what's coming next if the largest transmission line in the state of Wisconsin is being Proposed right through that spot What is coming of this 90 acre lot and I don't know well it begs a lot of questions too because it is like What's the biggest line of Wisconsin's like 160 one kilo volts or something like that so it's like why If if the grids going to be unstable like the next 10 years or something like that and they just want to get ahead of it Right, which I can understand that's fair right if that's a legitimate cause. I'm I don't know much about how the grid's structured So I can't say that that's not true. Yeah What I do know is if the biggest one lines in Wisconsin are 161 right why are we taking such a big step forward from A 161 to a 765 and it's like we're taking such a big step forward But also you don't understand it's not a continuous line of like okay 161 is like compared to a 365 is going to be like 26 or like 100 and some kilo volts bigger. It's like no, it's exponential. Yeah, yeah, no, so the 765 is Like an exponentially much larger than a 161 right yeah, it's massive the difference. Yeah No, they don't make them any bigger I mean they are not made any bigger capacity than that. So in the state of Wisconsin The primary route and the secondary route so the the secondary route is considered high voltage 69 KV is considered high voltage in the state of Wisconsin and then the primary route is a 161 line So either it sold 69 KV is high voltage 161 is high voltage and they're proposing to take 765 from it's you can't even wrap your head around it. No, so then it's like I I mean I alluded to this before in the last podcast it's just like this has to this has to be connected to the data centers Like there's no other way of justifying it to me right then you're trying to provide like and I haven't seen a map laid out of like data centers compared to where the lines going through Because I really just haven't looked into it a whole lot I am like it's just it makes total sense that there's all these data centers being proposed They're going to consume massive amounts of energy right and then here's this massive power line that's Providing massive amounts of energy right, you know a lot more than what it needs to be a lot more than what we've seen Yeah, but we're also about to see massive amounts of energy needed for Wisconsin right and so there is another foreign justification here for the line Which is like okay? If these data centers are going to be going up there is going to be massive amounts of stress on those local power grids And you probably would need something like this right to happen Um in order to actually secure those Those grids so it's like I get that Mm-hmm that form justification But I'm still like I'm not a fan of the data centers either Yeah, you got to convince me on this two-part here, right thing. It's a slippery slope Yeah, I mean it you know And that we don't want to get in any political divides or it just kind of defeats the purpose It's not a relevant but yeah, yeah, but anybody that's that's lived through or or experienced Foxconn the the whole Foxconn debacle Um eminent domain was used Houses taken it all all the money went away everything felt And I'm not saying everything like completely went away, but not the concern is What if these you know they're saying They don't mention data centers to us anyway. That's not not not that I know of So had it not been for the data centers the 20-year trendline of usage in the state of Wisconsin is either slightly below Average or just a hair maybe one percent up. So our our average use in 20-year Data is not trendline to something, you know supporting projects such as this So has it not if it were not the data centers Um, there would be no need and then okay, where are the data centers that you know show me where they're gonna be And then prove to me that this needs to be built because it shouldn't come off the public back No, it shouldn't and it's also kind of like I don't know like Carl mentioned last time that there is like the like Trump saying like rate pairs won't have to pay for the data centers And stuff so I'm like that could be part of the motivation behind Trying to hide the fact that this power line would be for the data centers Right, it's by coming up with some other excuse Um, there's probably like partial truth and the lie about it Which would be like that stabilizing the grid thing Yeah, um, and that's how they're getting away with not having to pay for it and putting it back on to rate payers Is by saying like oh, no, this isn't for data centers. It's not for data centers So the rate pair protection act can't actually apply to it right, you know, would would be another line of thought there so Um, circling it back so you're you're doing this lawsuit. Yep, right? Is there it's from a landowner coalition like that's who's putting the lawsuit through Yeah, is that the no is that the no 765 uh no group so um our group is the coalition against Maribel 765 Okay, we are the landowners immediately impacted On the primary route of of Maribel alone. Yeah, so that that's how we Organize it legally had to be that way to be effective In court and and we filed that early So we're hoping to see what Vernon Colony, you know the process. Yeah What is like the primary way in which people could like assist that landowner coalition if you're not One of those landowners in that area like is there a way that they can show support for the lawsuit or something like that that can Put more weight on to it or something. Yeah, I guess the best thing that I save as far as the public awareness and cooperation I turn to our you know brother and sister the no 765 line group who is Dead focused on advocacy and information lawmakers all that stuff. I you know everybody says if you got A computer in an iPad makes them noise, you know your state and and really They'll all pivot to it lies in the state, but you know I go back to This isn't just me personally like if you know if I went out and did something wrong me personally The repercussions would come to a court Uh, yeah Of jures of my peers, you know An unlimited amount of people saying this is what you did and this is the response to that Now we're taking all these families and all this land for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles You know this next leg has been announced right and it sits in the lap the the fate of those people It sits in the lap of three people in the state of Wisconsin. So we got to kind of ask ourselves Is that kind of really what we should be like is So if those three people say no to it, is it no like is it yeah, if those three people say no then it's no But they out then they have an opportunity to refile Refinaster, you know, sure like keep pushing it. Yeah, yeah, do we know who those three people are? Yeah, so the the state And I don't know the names. Yeah, so and that's one way. So two of those people on that panel We're appointed by this governor the current sitting governor They were not confirmed by the state legislature So in essence You know, we have an election coming in in November It's a unique opportunity for a new governor to a point You know to a point two new people to that board That may or may not be friendlier to our cause, you know That's a wild card like but it is a thing. It's a real thing. And then we go from there, you know, so yeah Interesting because there's the Senate race in the governor's race, right? Right. Yeah, yeah And this the those positions are appointed by the governor So so the governor's race is gonna be now the the state influences the laws and then, you know, if this gets drugged out over time. Um, I've had, you know, we just had an event in Lark and Arlington, excuse me. And, uh, one of the lawmakers said, which seemed like it was a pretty thrown together last minute event. Yeah, I know, for sure. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of, there's so much going on. There's so many people in so many different stages of all this. But, um, the state legislators that were there and attended and even the ones that we're talking to almost daily, um, they said, you know, something like this has never been proposed, there are no guardrails for, for a transmission line of this size. The laws aren't in place for, for development of these types of projects. Well, to me, it just common sense to rule the day. Okay, if there are no guardrails, then let's pause, put some guardrails in place. Let's look at the science from other, you know, that right now, they're looking at studies and data from other areas of the United States, where these things exist, but it doesn't take into account, um, the geography of the state of Wisconsin. Yeah, early is this part of it. Because that is, um, like something for me, what, like, I'm trying to figure out how to put this. There's an impact level from an environmental perspective, right? Yeah, for sure. And that's definitely legitimate. And it's very controllable, like, or at least it's, it's knowable, right? We can figure that out. The people perspective, we won't ever be able to figure out that's what I said last time. Um, and that's very important to me, right? But the other thing for me is this technology is also new, right? And it feels like we are in terms of like data centers, right? Like if this is to provide power to data centers, which is something they're not open about as it actually being, and it is just speculation. But I think for me, at least, like the listeners can do their own thing, but for me, at least I'm treating it as from the perspective of this is for data centers. Right. It's such a new field. I'm like, can we just take a minute to sit back and really try to figure this out instead of just trying to all jump in all at once to try and make the most amount of money off of this as possible, right away, right? You know, no, why can't we take a step back to just figure out what's most efficiently, but then also like what happens in 10 years when this technology is outdated because everything is more efficient. Yeah, exactly. No, yeah, all, all very good points. And for sure, I don't understand what's going to, because that was Carl's point was like, he talked about the coal ash landfill that he pushed against like way back when, right? And then circling back to now, there isn't a coal ash power plant and you know, anymore, right? So the landfill would have gone in and what would have been the result of it? Like what would have been that gain out of that? Yeah, like nothing. No, no. So I'm just like what's and everybody would have had to pay for it for that project as well, you know, and they would have had to use landowners either cooperating or eminent domain on a project such as that as well. So that, and that's where the pushback comes from, from public people because, you know, one thing that kind of emerged from all of this. So in, in the Maribel portion of this, if you had a transmission line on your property, you kind of feel like now you're fair game for a developer on, on such a massive proposal. And then they just announced the next portion. This is called this Becky line. It was just like fresh off the presses. Yeah, 91% of the land owners impacted or potentially impacted from the back year outs that they're the ones that got the letters in the mail. 91% of those landowners have no transmission line easement through their properties. This is all blazing new trail into, you know, just north of Madison area. And those people are very upset. They have no, they have no easements, no transmission lines on their property. Yeah. So this is all brand new because we had, we've got a transmission line running through our property here, our power line. What's, what's the Becky line? And like, like, where is it, where is it going from? From, from Bell Center. And then I, I don't know that, yeah, but it is a section of this same 765. It's just a continuation. So it's, it's just kind of crazy because, you know, the big picture will be unfolding before our eyes. But at the same time, that Becky was announced another segment into Minnesota from, from Marion, Minnesota, or, yeah, Marion, Minnesota was announced the other way. Oh, wow. Yeah, same timing. So this thing is, is getting bigger. It's going to be growing. Yeah. That's crazy because it all, so it's the chain of command for us as it's relevant to us is, um, Vernon County Electric, yep, is the next close to us. That's Darryl and power cooperative. Right. Then it's ATC. Correct. I believe so. And then it's, then it's my so, yeah, I, I think that's the chain of command that I've been told the AT I think where it might go Darryl and then, then my so, I think ATCs is a separate thing. Yeah, they're, they're just a developer, yeah, believe that's all that is, MISO and then FERC, this federal, yeah, is, is the top. I'm like, what would happen if it went from like MISO is, um, given like area that they have control over like into a different section? Like, what if they try to be connected there? And that's a whole other world of logistics to get into. Yeah, see, and that, that's, that's partly like what I'm just thinking about the logistics plan this project is it is like, we're only dealing with from Mayor, Marion, Minnesota to Bell Center, Wisconsin. Right. That's one section of line. And then there's another section that's going out west and another section that's continuing to go east. And now there's like multiple different pieces of this. And how do we actually like, uh, all group together to actually push against the whole thing as an, as an entirety, right? Yeah. Because what happens when it, we, our section get opposed, gets opposed. But the other two are not being opposed. Right. That's just going to put more pressure on our section to actually go through and happen. Right. You know, oh, for sure, that, and you know, the opposition groups, I mean, these talks are being had all over everywhere. And like, how do we the same way with, uh, with the, you know, the two routes? That's a state requirement. So if the primary route group puts up a strong defense, are they just going to slide into the secondary route? And that was one of the, you know, kind of maybe misleading or misleading, um, misleading, misleading, misleading or misguiding things because when they came to us, landowners on the primary route, they're like, initially, you know, please sign the survey agreement. It's probably not going to get passed in Minnesota. Like you could use the 500, like, it'll just, please just sign. It'll be fine. And then, um, once we got through all that noise, the, the people on the alternate route, they're like, you know, they went to those people, nothing in writing just come out and say, well, you know, we've, we've got to do this stuff, but they're really bent on using the primary route. It's, it's really never, you know, we've got all this stuff in the way and the alternate. We had, it's a formality with the state, you know, just take the money, we'll do our thing, but it's most likely, you know, I mean, don't they think people, I mean, neighbors relative, these are small communities. These people talk to one another, hey, what do they tell you? Hey, what do they tell you? Put it on Facebook. Like, I mean, it's like, what world do they think we live in? People talk to one, you know, do things like this. Yeah. So it's fresh, it's so frustrating. That's crazy. Yeah. And they've expected that there would be this massive on a pushback to it. It would have to be. Right. Yeah. But then you look at, you know, I've been watching Texas real closely. They're pushing these 765 KV lines. And I tell you, this all started a little earlier in Texas and just watching all the social media stuff. Yeah. I mean, same, you know, huge landowner outrage, all these concerns, health, cattle, well-being, you know, nature, and then resolutions locally, resolutions, county, state legislators lining up saying, no, no, no. And then just the other day that I think it's the commission down there approved two of the lines, like with all this resistance and opposition. So, you know, and then it makes you feel like, okay, everybody that told us there's nothing that we can do to stop this, that kind of proves it right there in the state of Texas and like, how can that be in this country? Yeah, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't at least try to stop it. Oh, no. I mean, our country, you know, it's a little bit past the 4th of July, but Independence Day. Why do we celebrate Independence Day? There's a reason for that. Yeah, there's a reason for all of that. That's why this country, you know, that's what the country was founded on. Yeah, definitely. So what is like, obviously, we're talking about the rate-payer stuff. We've all heard, like, environmental impacts, it's just transient current. Like, what are the, in your opinion, like, the negative impacts? that can come about from this project. - Yeah, so you know, I never really dug deep into the geology stuff, but you know, now that we're involved, we have this car's geology. That's a huge thing with groundwater and I'll lead into Carl's, the coal fly ash thing. So in the genoa area, I brought this up early because I felt it was important. There's been a lot of coal fly ash spread on our township roads in the area and speaking with the DNR early on, like what can we do to farmer resistance? Is this groundwater, you know, is there a potential impact to the ground? Like, and one of the recommendations that came out of one of those conversation was everybody should be testing their wells, like full thorough, so you have a baseline, you know, like your health, your doctor takes a baseline of where everything is at. And one of the areas that there was a lot of fly ash placed was our town shop. And I asked, I went to the town board and said, you know, I've been here 21 years. I know the well has never been tested. Would you consider taking a water sample? So we have a baseline, you know, if this thing does go through, then you knew where you started and you know where we are into the future. Absolutely, no problem. Everything came back okay, except for heavy metals. There's, there's, you don't say. We cannot drink. There's signage. People came to this last election, greeted with signs on the door, do not drink the water, lead contamination. - Yeah. - And now we're offered bottled waters, so for 21 years of no testing the well, like me personally on my farm saw, I never tested for heavy metals. I always thought about nitrates, bacteria, those type of things. - Like chemical things. - Yeah, yeah, and we've never had problems on our well on our farm. Never tested for any heavy metals. There are a lot of people in the area right now because of what happened at the town shop. Like it wasn't a flippant thing. It was just like, okay, the DNR said, if you want a baseline, this is the best way to approach it. Now the township, and they're gonna need to find out what the source of that is, and I'm not insinuating one way or another, but it is like water quality is absolutely a real issue. You look into lead in water for infants and children, it's not cool. - Wow. - No, it's not cool. - I think most people understand like lead is not. - No, right. - Something you want to be consuming on a daily basis. - No, so then there's residents in the area where this line is being proposed. They're doing a lot of water samples right now. There's a lot of that going on. And then Wisconsin is the dairy state, so like stray voltage kind of comes forefront in any dairy, anybody that's been around dairy, stray voltage, electric fences, all that jazz, you start to think about that. And their studies show that these things are safe, but they also say at these town hall meetings, or where they just had one in the Becky line, and somebody got a recording where they said, you could get a shock in the area, these EMFs and Lines, you could get a shock, but it's not fatal. - Considered a harmful, yeah, it's not considered. And then if you have cochlear implants, and that was part of their preliminary surveys, asking like, do you have a defibrillator, do you have a cochlear implant? - Well, just because you don't have one today, it doesn't mean you're not going to have one. Or somebody's going to move, or you know what I mean. So then you could talk about the cattle in the wildlife, so it's just all this stuff. And it's a little bit overwhelming. I mean, we're being rushed to the finished line, and like we're just trying to wrap our heads around, what's the honest approach to this, and we need the information. - I wonder how they test for that stuff, like the health defects, and like, how does it affect like your heart monitors and stuff, and all those, and then like, yeah, like what are the levels of shocks you can get from it? And like, just, I have no idea how you'd begin to test that. - Yeah, you know, and one thing that was brought up, but I think it's the 345 KV lines. It's proven actual data, and some of them want us to go, and I don't have a need to, I believe what the science is. You take a for lesson tube, underneath these 345 KV lines, there's videos out there. - Did it light just light it up? - And go out in the dark, and you stick it in the ground, and it lights, if you got your hand on it, it'll light up in your hands. - That's awesome. - Are you, you know, and tell me there's no stray voltage off for that? Come on. - Yeah. - I mean, what's lighting up that bulb? There absolutely is something going on there. - That's too funny, you know? - I mean, it's not funny, but it's so, it is funny. - Yeah, it is, and it isn't. - Yeah. - No. - So what is the timeline for the project then? - Yeah, I guess we feel like, yeah, I mean, I think they were-- - There's an element to this where like, there's just so much information you're having that you're trying to keep track of it. So if you don't know it exactly-- - Yeah, I know right, and that's kind of-- - That's kind of-- - I'm assuming the October, like, court data is kind of what you're focused on right now. - That's our crime, that's our crime state. - But like, are they trying to like, break ground of this in like a year or five years? - I thought it, you know, just trying to recall, I think it was three years, break down in three years, like, do all the preliminary stuff within three years, and then-- - I think it was around, then, what I was more up to data as to what was happening, like, in the spring, I think it was around like, three to five years. I was just curious if they were pushing for it to be like a lot quicker now. - Yeah, I know, I think there's a standard time that they have to, you know, the PSC, you know, holds this whatever their defined, you know, time frame is for this, and from what I've seen of other projects and other states, it just feels like, you know, because this is so massive and there's so much public outcry that they're really gonna have to slow it down and take their time, you know, digest, you know, they have to prove that they've taken all of the information and then from everybody and come up with their rational. - Well, that's good, because I thought for a second, you were gonna say the opposite in that, because there were so much public outcry that they were like, "Hey, we gotta hurry this up." - Yeah, well-- - We gotta get up. - Yeah, no, I don't think that could be the case. I don't believe that could be the case. - Okay, so I do have two little faiths that I need to have over more faith. - Right, right, no for sure, yeah, for sure. - No, that's good, I didn't have to catch myself more with having a pessimistic attitude towards that kind of stuff, because it is like if you do get to in the ropes with that just like negative attitude towards all of it, you are just gonna eventually hit a rough spot and you're just gonna be, you're not gonna know what to do. - Right. - And you definitely need to keep with stuff like this, especially because it is like the odds are not in our favor. If we're being completely honest here, they're not in our favor at all. So it's like, we have to, like the one thing that we can keep up with is the positive attitude. - Right, yeah, and I feel like, you know, it's been conveyed in many ways to our membership is like, when the time comes and it matters for people to make comments at the PSC that that's open to anybody in the state, like when the call comes out, that hey, we need, you know, we, the land owners, your neighbors and friends need your help, like look into this a little bit and spend 10 minutes filing a comment, like figure it out. And then in the meantime, you know, state representatives, the governor's race, this, this November election is gonna unlock a lot, you know, we need to get those politicians. - There's this big wild card, which is the election. - Yeah. - And we are working very hard to get those, those potential elected officials on the record is saying, what is your stance on this? Because I tell you, you know, our group is in, one thing that's, you know, if there's anything that's cool that's come out of our group or this whole proposal, like you have literally in front of your eyes the most, left, left people to the most right, to the center, they have all come together as land owners and just sat down at the table and this is our focus and put it all aside and it's like the, it's the coolest. This is, that's, you know, if there's a guiding light in our country, like our coalition is what our country needs to be a model of, because there's so much polarization. You know, and I said, like if you look at national issues, let's, why do we have to have these wild swings in this country that cost everybody a bunch of anger, resentment, money, however you want to say it, like let's say the border. So we go from completely wild west, everybody's coming in to not lock it down, you know, nobody's coming in, spend all this money, put up all this security. So why, why can't we be somewhere in the middle on some of these issues? Like why do we have to go from a 161 KV line to 76, like where is the compromise with us? You know what I mean? And why are we stuck paying for these wild swings because affordability, you know, at the end of the day, that's what we're talking about. what's gonna get people to respond to this. Like, you know, and I've said at this morning to a different group. Okay, I'm a beef farmer every day in the headlines. What do they talk about right now? Beef is unaffordable. Beef, beef, beef, the price of beef. And what I will say is a landowner who's got a proposed transmission line, right now we're at a crossroads because I will not raise my beef under a 765 kilovolt line. So, and that's probably gonna be the case across the state with these landowners. People are gonna have to make a decision. Do you want that transmission line or do you want more beef? Because me personally, I'm not gonna raise beef underneath that transmission line. - So, what would you do then? Like, what would that transmission line go through? Like, are you just, are you closing up shop? - I mean, you know, we've had since last November, me and my wife, because it is so near our home, because it affects every piece of property that we own, literally cuts through, I've got four smaller pieces of land, and every one of them's got transmission line through them. Like, how can you go on with that, you know? - Yeah. - I mean, we've kind of been through the floods and the bad ex-river basin, and we've kind of made contingency plans like, okay, when there's a storm warning, like, call the cows up and get some grain and-- - Like, a hundred year flood. - Yeah, it's 100 year, 500 year. Like, it's not fair to the cattle to be trapped in these areas, like, if there's a storm warning, we go down and get the cattle move to a place that's safe. If you have these transmissions, you know, they'll tell you that it's safe. We've had scientists reaching out to us from across the nation that's saying, they're gonna tell you that you can graze your cattle under these lines. Like, yeah, they've already said it. They're like, boy, I don't know about that. - What are they saying for health problems that we come about? - They talk about fertility in the preterm labor with cattle. - That's kind of what I figured. - Yeah. - It's all like the typical stray voltage. They don't call it stray voltage, but, you know, problems with stray voltage type stuff. - Which also, like, let's just point out, like your cow calf operation. Your operation is dependent upon fertility. - Oh, yeah, that's 100, like that's our main goal. - Yeah. - Right. Like, everything we do with our, you know, everything we do with our fertility and our herd and the bulls and reproduction. It's all geared to reproduction. One cow has to have one calf and they gotta go from there. - So you have to figure out a lot of mental math to be a cow calf guy. - Right, yeah, no, it's a big undertaking, so. - Yeah. No, that's just, that's interesting. So you would actually sell, would you just get rid of the cow or would you sell the land entirely or just try to sell it? - Yeah, and that's, you know, that's the next thing. Like, who's gonna buy a place that's, you know, essentially too close to a massive power line and be like, if they're not getting a bargain on it, they're not gonna buy it, you know? And then, you talk to the people in this, in this Becky line where they have no transmission. - So, okay, if this comes through and I sell my place and I say, well, I'm just not gonna buy a place near a transmission line, I'm gonna go somewhere safe. Where is that right now? Like, they're proving that nobody's safe because, in all honesty, if a bunch of data centers get built in the state of Wisconsin, who's to say one 765 transmission line is enough to feed a data center, you know? - 10 or 12 data centers or how everybody is. - Yeah, I mean, how do you know? Like, I mean, that's all another can of worms. But, like, I'm, you know, I live next door to my grandparents farm. That's forth going on fifth generation. For me to say that. - You're gonna sell that. - Yeah. - That's you. - Like, you know. - 'Cause that's a hard thing for people to understand that haven't grown up with that idea. Like, imagine you've been living in the same house and the same property as five generations ago. So, like, you're great, great, great, great. - Yeah. - Grandpa? - Yeah. - Like, I mean, that's crazy. And you're saying that you're gonna be the one to, like, say no more to that. - Well, I mean, how can you, when you talk about the health impacts and. - It's totally understandable. But I'm just, I'm trying to paint the picture in the people's minds of just like, it's, that's a hard thing to understand. Because, for me, on this farm, we've had it for three years, right? I want to make this place a multi-generational property. - Yeah. - For sure. - Like, I want my kids' kids' kids to be here, right? That's a very difficult thing to do. And there's a lot of them at once where I'm like, "Damn it, I don't think this place "is gonna make one generation." (laughing) So, it's like, it's just without ever. It's just interesting because I'm looking at it as like the first generation on this property. And it's like, what would I, how would I feel knowing five generations down, right? That they're gonna have to sell this place because there's like a power line that's gonna go through it that serves no actual benefit to the people within this county. - Correct. - Right. - Like, how would I feel about that? - No, I know. That's why we're fighting. - Yeah. - So I'm just, yeah. - I'm just trying to paint that picture for people at the house. - No, I mean, you know, the whole story of Janella, our family, you know, mostly. And then I could get into my dad's side, which is, you know, that's a different story, but the patriotic side of the family originally. - You are related to the patriotic side. - Oh yeah, that's on my mom's side. So that's where the fourth and fifth generation comes from. So, literally came from Italy. - Yeah. - Out of a famine to Janella, Wisconsin, settled into Janella, Wisconsin. And, you know, most of us have not gone anywhere. We're here. And like, you know, they talk about deep roots. Well, and we joke because like, we had that event in Arlington and everybody's like, Tim Woodhouse and Larry Padredi went to Arlington. Like, they never leave Janella. That should be breaking news right there. And I always respond to look around here. Like, I feel like it should be a secret. How beautiful it is here and how enjoyable it is here. It's like, I've never found a reason to leave here. My farm's here, my cattle are here. It's a beautiful area. It's quiet, it's peaceful. We want to keep it that way. And we're going to fight to keep it that way. That's what we're doing. - That's cool. So, how well do you know your family is here? - Oh, jeepers. You're going to test my knowledge. - Well, like I said, I'm trying to paint the pictures. - I just want people to know. - No, I mean. - You don't, if it's not that much, it's not that much. - Yeah, I mean, I would know the, you know, like, my cousin is would be the fifth generation on the family farm. And that's right next door to me. So my uncle, Larry, that I farm with, or, you know, we help each other. - Yeah. - He's third generation on that farm. - Yeah. - And then the one piece of property in the bad ex-value that was the woodhouse side of the family for years, that was kind of a, you know, started out family farm. We lost that out of the woodhouse name. And I worked for those people in high school on their farm, they owned the land. And then my interest grew and they got older. And I was able to buy that 54 acres. And then actually we got a picture in my house, my grandparents at a young age. So on, there's a church right there on the corner and the woodhouse side of the family was Lutheran side of the family. And the church right there. And then Sundays they would gather and play ball behind the church. It's like this open field. And then the pine trees is like the layout of the land is like almost like stadium seating. So everybody would gather, they were called the bad ex-sluggers I guess. And I got a picture of my grandparents after a ball game on a Sunday afternoon, they had uniforms. My grandpa was in the uniform, the ball uniform on a ball game. And in that pasture, you know, I got that land that was part of the family, you know, on my dad's side. So like I'm very close to the patriotic side, like both sides of my family. And that means a lot to me. But the problem with that property is the primary route goes right. It's, I use it for pastures, nothing else there. It's all pasture. But the transmission line goes right through the middle of it. - Yeah, that's insane. - So. - Yeah, well, do you have anything else you'd like to say to people or any last notes? - Yeah, I just, I guess, you know, I always emphasize that to people that, you know, this would be the largest transmission line proposal in the state of Wisconsin. - By a significant margin. - Yeah, there's no other. And I feel like our lawmakers have stated pretty clearly, like it's the Wild West. There's no guardrails that have been developed. And I feel like that needs to be important. - Yeah, and then if they want to show support no 765. - Yeah, yeah. - Facebook is the easiest place to find them. - Right, yeah. - Every day. - Every day. - Every possible thing. - No, right, yeah, they're doing the, I mean, they're really building the resistance. And I think they're feeling a little bit, you know, targeted by it. But I mean, this is America. And we do have a right to ask questions. It's only fair. - It is only fair. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Tim. - Yeah, thank you. - Appreciate it. Thank you guys for listening to me. today's episode. Please be sure to share this with somebody if you enjoyed it. It's the only way content creators ever grow. It's the only way I'm going to grow. So please just hit the share button, pick one person, your contact list, send it to them. Also, please be sure to go and check out our sponsor, JustLandedLandYards over on Instagram. 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