Speaker 1hey what's going on welcome back to the james kennedy podcast man so much has happened since we last spoke the new book loud medicine is now officially out in the stores i'm super happy with how that bad boy turned out man it looks really cool in that sexy red hardback it's so cool walking into my local waterstones and having my own book staring back at me from the main display pretty damn cool man massive thanks to everybody that's already picked up a copy of loud medicine i really hope you're enjoying it and if you finished it already please please please do leave me a review on amazon waterstones goodreads wherever you get your books from because it's really really helpful and also it's nice to know what people think of the book book number three is already being pitched to publishers as we speak i'm trying to keep the momentum going on this whole book writing situation man because the whole process takes so damn long you know you got to write the thing and then there's like a year after that before it gets published and uh yeah you know that doesn't work for my level of impatience so i'm trying to um trying to get number three in the works with a publisher you know just hot off the heels of this second one coming out so watch this space as well as doing that i've also been recording the new james kennedy and the underdogs album man we are literally just polishing this thing up now it is going to be in your earlobes before you know it man and i can't wait for you guys to hear this record i'm super excited about it lots of cool shit in the pipeline for 2026 man but unfortunately i gotta keep my lips sealed for now but as soon as i'm able to disclose what's going on at this end you guys will be the first to know before we jump into today's conversation do not forget to subscribe to the podcast wherever you get it whether it's on apple youtube spotty fuck give it a thumbs up give it a star leave us some nice comments and get involved as with the book reviews all those things really help the discoverability of these things in the uh algorithmic hunger games that we all live in now as creatives you know okay but with all that said i'm going to end the video here all that said and done let's get down to the main event and welcome on today's guest it's difficult to encapsulate today's guests in a cute little intro because this man is not simply a comedian an investigative reporter an author a preacher a prankster an exposer of evil a truth teller and so much more but he's an inspiration a tireless and unsurrendering voice of truth justice and decency for decades fighting the good fight and keeping us laughing as we go i've been a fan and a follower of this man's work for decades so i'm absolutely honored and excited to have him on the show today and i'm going to be talking to him in a moment and i'm going to be talking to him in a moment and i'm going to be talking to him in a moment and i'm going to be talking to him with us today so ladies and gentlemen please rattle the roof for mr mark thomas mark how you
Speaker 2doing brother heidi hi how are you doing brother it's great to see you what's up i'm all right man i've just got out of the bath so you've joined me a very relaxed moment i love it perfect and also
Speaker 1i should point out that today we are recording this on october the 13th which as it turns out would have been the 100th birthday of the late great mrs thatcher who i'm sure you're a fan of as much as i am um any thoughts on mrs thatcher mark and will you be doing anything to celebrate what would have been her 100th birthday well the thing about her
Speaker 2it's an interesting thing it's an interesting thing that thatcher's legacy has now been picked up by reform they're the true inheritors of thatcher's legacy which is total privatization and amazing me because you know what a lot of reform supporters the anger that reform supporters feel is a very real anger you know we should all feel angry we're paying over the odds we're paying masses of money to a bunch of billionaires for crapping in the water you know we're paying over the odds for gas and electricity we're not looking at green renewables all these things are happening you know they're sort of the piecemeal approach that labor take to it all the idea we should be fighting for council houses we should be fighting for a massive rebuild that is a council house rebuild the privatization of the health service the continual privatization of everything the financialization of our lives that is nigel farage is the inheritor of of that mantle i'm not sure i made any sense in that rant there no totally man totally i mean it's an
Speaker 1interesting one isn't it because yeah we're seeing the rapid rise again of populism in figures like trump and farage the far right is back with an ugly vengeance but do you feel the left should share some of the blame for that and that the left has helped to enable this situation given that our track record the past 10 or more years has been shambolic we've offered no effective opposition or alternative ideas and we've just left the gates wide open for the far right to stick his jackboots back in what are your thoughts man i mean is the left being letting us down
Speaker 2well it's interesting if you look at labor at the moment who are with starmer's island of strangers speech your reference to legitimate concerns to criticizing people's behavior as being un-british um he's focusing on um migration uh you just think all that he's doing is he's sort of you know rolling out the red carpet for farage he's legitimizing his viewpoint what labor essentially is saying is nigel farage is right but um will manage his racism better and that has legitimized there's no way that reform supporters are going to vote labor they absolutely hate them i mean we'll see but my feeling is is that the labor party have laid out the red carpet in response to populism in response to the far right and i think we have to be very clear about this i mean when you start talking about rounding up people on the basis of their skin color and deporting them that is fascism and i think you have to be very clear that what farage is um putting forward is uh is a type of fascism he is kind of like a kind of superversion of the 1970s national front when you say has the left played any part of this i think certainly be clear on this anti-semitism exists it's not a fictional thing it exists anti-semitism exists everywhere and it exists in the labor party but the way it was weaponized and used against corbin supporters and corbin was quite remarkable and i think it shows that the right wing of the labor party would rather destroy the labor party so certainly that's happened i think there are parts and you have to sort of like go there are bits of um the sort of movement to support palestine the solidarity movements there are bits not massive but there are bits that have anti-semitism in it i mean it's our duty to call that out it's not as big as people make out but it is there and we have to call it out when we see it um when when two jews were killed in manchester it's very very simple that's wrong that's racism that's anti-semitism we condemn it you don't have to add anything else onto it you don't have to go but what about no that's it it's racism and it's wrong and it's evil and we condemn it that's it i think the left's tendency uh the what aboutery is really just does my head in just as netanyahu when he said that this was an example of uh anti um anti-semitism equating to anti-israeli policy just as starmer equated anti-semitism with opposition to the genocide that you know those that's racism that's conflating judaism and jewishness with israeli anti-semitism and i think that's a very important point and i think that's a very important action in israeli government and israeli military campaign um the left shouldn't have any truck with
Speaker 1that but when we see it we have to call it out beautifully put man yeah no i totally agree and we're living in strange times it's like everything has become so binary now you know you either totally agree with this or you totally agree with that and you don't agree on anything in the middle and i feel like this is something that started creeping in during the first trump era and it's just not realistic as to how things work in the world you know and i certainly don't think it's true of how most people think either but it's made the nature of discourse now so extreme you know you're either in complete agreement or complete disagreement and everyone's screaming and shouting at each other and i think that social media has played a role in that as well what what do you
Speaker 2think are you seeing this as well social media has played a role in it because the platforms are owned by billionaires you know the billionaires own the platform um this really interesting oh there's a show that i've been doing with a mate of mine called vick melody she's a performance artist and an anthropologist and i've been working with her it's a great show it's um what she does is she embeds herself with hobbyists and then goes and does shows about it and she'll be in there for years so she did a show about pigeon fancy and about northern soul dancing anyway we've sort of known each other for years we've talked about working together for years she said what should i do and i said reenactments and the reason why i make this jump is because the english civil war saw this explosion of radical thought and ideology right and what it If you look at the levelers, the ranters, the diggers, you know, the fifth monarchists, you have all these radical ideas, diggers, proto anarcho communists, you know, from 1649, you know, squatting land that they could feed themselves and plant and grow vegetables and creating communities. That's, you know, Gerard Wynne Stanley, who is the person who sort of pamphleteered and was the leading figure within the diggers. You know, his pamphlets were kind of 200 years before Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto in English, and it was printed and available. It was no longer in Latin. It was no longer the kind of like the possession of the clergy. It was open to everyone. And people began to read it and say, oh, this bit, love thy neighbor, you know, or whatever. The earth is a common treasury. That's when you see this. Explosion, which is why suddenly people, you know, the papers that the press starts to emerge, the control of the press, the control of the media starts to emerge. And it's the owners of the platforms that have their own self interests at heart, whether it's Musk promoting all his sort of like, debating 13 year old fucking apartheid apologist wank, or whether it is, you know, Zuckerberg, you know, complying with Trump's demands, they're all working for their own agenda, for their own, for their own money, for their own enrichment. So there is a degree that social media has polarized things. But that's at the behest of the owners of it. One of the interesting things, and this goes back to the thing I was working with Vic, one of the things we did was, we worked a lot in a council estate in Brighton, in East Brighton. Now, Whitehawk has got a life expectancy that's 10 years less than the rest of Brighton. Half the kids there live in poverty. There, it's the end of the bus stop. There's no pub, there's no post office, there's no church, there's no school, there's a premier shop. That's roughly it. Right. During lockdown, or just as lockdown was starting, there's a guy there called Brian. And if you're listening, Brian, salute. He started the East Brighton food court, and he offered people meals on wheels. Right. He's got nothing. He's got nothing. But he asked people, are you a bit more worried about, you know, because you have to go into town, and how can you get into town? You haven't got money, you haven't got, you know, they're worried about how they're going to feed themselves. So Brian found where there was a disused community kitchen, borrowed the key from the caretaker, cut a copy, squatted down. The kitchen. Squatted down the kitchen. He was bagging food from supermarkets, from restaurants, from cruise ships. And he got all these volunteers to come and help, whether it was pensioners, trade unions, people who lived in the flats nearby. 400 people a day. Free food. Right. They got, and because it is a market, fruit and veg, he's obsessed with people getting their fruit and veg. His mission is to smuggle in 33 portions a week. Right. He's absolutely brilliant. And he's a remarkable man. Right. And so he makes things happen. And in communities, that's really important. Working class communities, it's really important that people come together in that way to fight for each other. And I just want to say, because he was blagging off cruise ships, while the rest of the country went into lockdown, the people on a council estate in Brighton ate lobster. This is brilliant. This is brilliant. Do you know what I mean? It's so exciting. Love it. Love it. Love it. It's fan owned. It's fan owned. Right. They're anti-homophobic. They're anti-sexist, anti-racist, anti-imperialism. Very pro-beer. Right. And they sing about that, you know, on the terraces. It's really exciting. You've got a community hub there that was set up independently. They've got cookery clubs. They've got a boxing club there. They've got a mum and toddlers club there. They had a fucking pop in. They had a fucking vet who popped in. Do you know what I mean? All of this stuff that's happening independently, because people haven't got a choice. People haven't got a choice. You either come together and fight for your community and build grassroots structures, or you will die alone. And that's that.
Speaker 1100%. Yeah. And that kind of segues perfectly into the next question I was going to ask you, because I wanted to ask how you feel we most effectively affect change. Because you've been involved in causes and activism for... A long, long time. You've done a lot of work on a lot of different issues. So I wanted to ask, from your experience, what have you seen as being one of the best ways to affect change? And I feel like from what you just said, that the answer is possibly going to lie within direct action within the community, starting on your doorstep, making things better in real tangible ways today. Is that about right?
Speaker 2I think it is. I mean, it's... AFC Wimbledon, as you may or may not know, was... We had the... Ground sold. 35 years ago, it was sold to property developers. The owner of the club sold the football ground. And so, activists, football fans, trade unionists, local community people came together to form AFC Wimbledon. And in 23 years, we were put at the bottom of the English football pyramid. In 23 years, we've gone through seven tiers of the English football pyramid. Right? We're now in League One. So we've gone through all that, and we've got our own ground. Right? Owned by fans. Built by fans. Right? 250 yards from the site of the original stadium. And that's a beautiful, beautiful story. It speaks of the love and importance of football within a community, and what it means for a community, and how it's not just about the community coming to the club, but the club being the community. The club also has an action trust. We did something like 1,500 times... Right? On our food delivery. Okay? And we work with GPs. Right? So local doctors in the area can refer you to Wimbledon's food bank. And you'll get a package every week. You don't get assessed. You don't get marked down. You don't get what you've had one three weeks ago. You get a package every week. We've got computers for schools. We've got sort of like a furniture bank. All this kind of stuff. We've got... I was doing some stuff with a mate of mine over at the club. And one of the officials who was helping us says, I've got to hurry up. I said, why is that? He said, I'm off to teach. I said, I thought you worked with a coach and stuff. He said, I go in to teach local schools for kids who are hard to reach in English and maths because I wear the badge. And because the club means something. And it gives me a bit more just entry into respect into kids' minds to actually be receptive to learning. That is a community club. We look after the community that we're part of. But it also means if you're a football band, your club's got more chance of surviving with roots in the community. You look at clubs which are just sold up, moved off, parceled off, used by Saudi Arabia, used by UAE to whitewash or what have you. Do you know what I mean? Dreadful human rights and democratic deficit. So when you look at change, you can look at it on those very small levels of... Actually making sure your community is all right. Of looking after and working with your community. And I think in places like Italy, they're in the community, they're part of the community. They're kind of like involved in the football and they're involved in the local scene to make sure people are fed. It's all about all the political aspects as well as clubbing and all of those things that go together with it. And that actually is really inspiring. And you can see it over in Clapton CFC, which is the community. The football club is again, it's another fan owned football club. They've just bought, they've just got this place next door to the club, right next door to the football ground. And it's they're using the ground floor for new changing rooms, for community work, for people involved in the community, for working to bring the community together to facilitate those needs. It's really exciting when you see these things. These are the bedrock. We need to be doing the most basic terms of political work. Of course, it's important to pick up the mantle for Palestine. You know, it's absolutely appalling that we have seen Starmer arming a genocidal regime. It's appalling that he has then gone to outlaw people opposing it nonviolently to opposing it and to prescribing Palestine actions. We need to fight on that. But we also need to do the bread and butter.
Speaker 1Bang on, man. Yeah, beautiful stories, man. Beautiful people doing beautiful things in the community that actually affects people's lives for the better in the here and now in ways that all of us can get involved in, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2The thing about that is it cuts across about bringing the community together. And once you've got them together, you can start to preach.
Speaker 1Love it. Love it. Well, I mean, what about the political system, though? Because, yeah, I mean, it's essential. It's essential for all of us to do as much as we can on our doorstep and address the issues that actually affect people's lives in the here and now. But we also have to fight fascism, you know, and we also have to maintain our democracy, certainly at times. like now more than ever you know we're living in such hot times right now that it's very easy and tempting to just tap out of it sometimes it's certainly how i feel i feel so fucking bedraggled by it all sometimes that i just want to tap out you know what i mean but i know that that's what they rely on and that's what they want and that's why they do it so it's important that we fight the bigger battles and on the bigger battlefields as well right people do whatever they can in their
Speaker 2own little way do you know i mean sometimes it's i used to know a guy who was um he came to this he was irish and came to this country in the 50s and uh he was just like you keep your head down you go to work you don't cause any fuss right and that's it you go to church but every time he got some money out the bank when he put his wallet in his back pocket quote the queen would always kiss my ass and i always thought that kind of like you do whatever you whatever little bit you've got what you do do you know and if it's as small as that at least celebrate that um you're right though that it in a way it's purposefully overwhelming um you know throw everything in the air break everything up move quickly the the neoliberal um kind of mantra if you like um it does become overwhelming follow the money that's what you do you know trump gets a plane you know thank you very much you've given me a new massive great and then suddenly oh what's that we're opening up an airbase for you in idaho you know watch where he's going you know watch the fact that the the um this is a president who just enriches himself he's an old-fashioned mafia thug he's a fascist you know that's what he is he's a he's a klepto dictator as well it's kind of that's what they are dictators they steal things it is sometimes overwhelming but i think it's our job to just kind of find what we can do find what we think is useful find what we think is productive find other people to work with who support us people used to say to me you know they always used to go what advice do you have for me i don't know what advice do you have for me i don't know what you've got if i want to be an activist and i would also always say right this is what you do you find something you're interested in find something you're passionate about research it really read up about it you know understand the subject understand the arguments that are thrown at you and understand how you can defeat them and then you start to organize meetings and you start to find other people you find other people who work with you you organize lit meetings you get the leaflets printed you hand them out you get the leaflets printed you get the leaflets printed you set out the chairs you watch no one arrive you fail you do it again you watch a few people arrive you fail again then you build it and you get more people and you start sort of like groups that can protest together and put petitions together and write letters and and lobby and campaign and when you've done all of that then you get to hang off an abseiling rope outside big ben and look really cool
Speaker 1indeed indeed well i mean you've always made activism seem really fun and really cool i mean i watched every episode of the mark thomas comedy product i watched it every week and i want to show you something before we move on because i'm so old that i've actually got every episode on vhs look at this and that show was so important in my political development because you just made politics like accessible and you made activisms just seem really fun and really cool you know and the pranks like flying over menworth hill in air balloon
Speaker 2thank you i'm just delighted that you did thank you no well thank you man sincerely i mean you've
Speaker 1inspired me and so many people from my age and my generation to become politically active and engaged you know whether it was in your writing or your tv work or the live comedy shows of which i've been to many and you've always managed to find the fun and the humor and the human and the heart you know in all of these issues through all of these times we've been through a man has been some tough ones over the years but i wanted to ask how you maintain that you know you've never lost your fire and your passion and your energy and i feel at the moment that we're living in possibly the worst times that i have ever experienced in my entire life and you know it's affecting my energy and my my sense of hope um that you know for a better day how do you maintain that how do you keep your hope and your fight alive through all of these fucking tough times man i think it's this idea that
Speaker 2i was born in 1960 and so i was kind of brought up with this idea that things would get progressively better that somehow each generation would materially improve upon the last one that i would do better than my parents and that my kids would do better than me and that somehow we would all move forward and it would we would all benefit um that idea is gone that idea is shot to pieces um the idea that we will gradually get better that things will improve that's out the window what i think is interesting i don't have a huge amount of hope i always take this there's a lovely you know you get the old marxist leninists always go you know the the victory of the proletariat is inevitable and it's not it's not inevitable what's inevitable is conflict rosa luxembourg famously said we face barbarism or socialism right that's what it is that's that's the choice we've got when i was in i first started my career in the military i was in the like going to the west bank in palestine like in 2009 and i always remember talking to someone he said the thing that i'm proudest of is that we're still here and i said do you i remember saying do you have much hope and he said no not at all but i always know there'll be resistance and that's the important thing to to remember that that you don't you know when the hope arrives is fucking great and sometimes it does and when it does it's just wonderful you can feel those moments of change you can feel those moments of community where you're moving forward and you're actually winning it feels alive if it courses through you like the crack what lasts is opposing wrong what lasts is trying to create a better way of fighting of resisting that's what lasts um people just go fuck this i'm putting on a plasticine action t-shirt does that mean we're going to win no but it certainly cheers us up and it shows the law for what it is you know that that kind of resistance the ability to laugh uh and to mock is a really important one our ability to to keep going is an important one
Speaker 1love it love it man yeah and comedy as well is a very important weapon in our arsenal you know a weapon that you've been using successfully you know against the evildoers for a long time now how powerful a weapon do you feel that comedy can be and affecting change even if it's just
Speaker 2you know giving us all a laughter in times of hardship let me put it this way round um a bloke in hong kong who got a hooky video from a market a dodgy video of a film and halfway through the film he realized that it had been taped over a news report and he realized that his government had been lying to him and they started this path of anti-government cartoons and what he used to do is he used to do these cartoons and then and spray them on the walls and then photograph them and try and get them through the great firewall of china and they get through one of the cartoons he did was of president xi and obama and obama was tigger and president xi was winnie the pooh and that was the cartoon that he did president xi was so so so enraged by it that he banned winnie the pooh in china what so when you say what can comedy do well that's if all if all that we do is fuck off dictators then that a job yeah you know i think it um comedy does all sorts of things i remember you know this is why sort of erdogan in turkey was jailing cartoonists you know this is why you know cartoonists get banned um and jailed in in saudi you know because they don't like that there's a great quote which is the truth is written on the toilet wall you know that actually that'll be the last place that you find the truth i suppose that's where comedy sort of like takes its um so for me that's always there that's always i had a picture that martin rosen did it was the a cartoon he's a cartoonist and he did this cartoon um and it was after the finsbury mosque attack where a racist drove a white van into a bus stop at finsbury mosque and martin drew a van at a bus stop and on the side of the van it's got read the daily mile read the sun that cartoon The editor of the Daily Mail, Paul Dacre, went into a fucking meltdown. He did a front page, furious at these liberals mocking him, mocking his readers, you know, and actually, you think, from a cartoon. Yeah, that's fucking great. And I love it. I've got that picture, and it's a reminder of what we can do, of what we can achieve with what we think are small things, you know, but we're part of a culture of culture. We're part of a culture of resistance. I mean, you can also look at it the other way, and you look at Israeli comics that were doing jokes about famine and jokes about Palestinians starving, or you can look at it from the 70s, and you see the vicious stuggery that went on within sort of like some of the club circuits where, you know, especially in the north of Ireland, famine gags were told, and these were sort of like, these are the taunts of bullies. So, it's not one thing or the other. It's just a thing that's there that really fucking upsets people in power. What more reason do we need than that? You know, I love the Portland Frogs. Oh, God, you're a genius. There's war. There is a war zone. You know, there's all these inflatable frogs standing off against the ice ages.
Speaker 1Yeah, and these guys are so mega-maniacal and narcissistic and psychopathic as well. They just can't handle anyone taking the piss out of their delicate little fucking ego. And that in and of itself, just to know that something someone said is a joke, an innocent fucking joke has got them pounding around their fucking mansion with a vein popping out of their head, you know? It's a beautiful thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2absolutely. To know that we have the power to elicit that response from the rich and powerful is a wonderful thing. Amen
Speaker 1to that, brother. Amen. And that segues perfectly into, your new show, Ordinary Decent Criminal, a play written by Ed Edwards and performed by your fine self. You're performing it all over the country as we speak. Can you tell us a bit about it? What's the backstory? What's it about? And how's it going?
Speaker 2Okay. Over the years, my shows have moved away from straight stand-up into big old theatrical pieces. I did a show about the Red Shed, which is a labour club in Wakefield, and about the miners' strike, and about a memory of it. And it involved, all my friends from that time, and you know, meeting up and finding them and trying to find this story. And so it becomes a very theatrical thing. And I love what I love is I love all forms of performance. I'll tell you the caveat in a minute. So I've been building up shows that have verged into political situationist for years. And I came out of a show called The Political History of Smack and Crack, which is about the flooding of Liverpool with heroin in the early 80s. And I came out of seeing it, and I said, that's the best, as I came out of seeing it in years. And this voice behind me went, I wrote that. And that's how I met Ed Edwards, the playwright. And we just started chatting, and we got on like a house on fire. And so we would hook up, we'd kind of go, if I was touring, he'd come and see me. You know, if I was up in Manchester, I'd go and stay with him. And we got on really, really well. I really like working with him. And so we developed a show together called England and Son, two years ago. And that was great. I mean, you know, we picked up six awards and toured it in Australia. It was really brilliant. And so we wanted to do another one, which is this Ordinary Decent Criminal. It's based upon the fact that Ed had been a half year in jail for important cannabis. And he was an old communist who ends up as a drug dealer and then refinds his communism. And it's a story of... It's a funny old story, because you get lots of people, like, innocent people go to jail and fight for their freedom. You know, this one is, guilty bloke goes to jail, discovered activism. You know, and it's quite a wonderful story. Ed's writing is fantastic. It's like, you know, because everything's in the press fast. Everything's packed. So if you were saying, you know, a thin looking man appears at the side of the door and walks into the jail, right, he doesn't do that. He goes, a gaunt man enters. Bang, you're done. Like it. You know what I mean? And it's like, everything is really alive. And it's a great story, and he writes in such that it's like an emotional rollercoaster. We were doing it down in Plymouth, and it was just like, alive. I mean, the people coming up after us, and I was saying to them, I'm glad you feel like that. I don't want you to feel like you've been to theatre. I don't want you to think, that was marvellous, darling. Where should we go for dinner? I don't know. Have you read the report? You know, you don't want people doing that. You want people coming out and going, bloody hell, what was that? That's what you want. And I love that feeling. We performed it, or I performed it, rather, because there's only me in it, in a jail last week. Performed it to a group of prisoners. It was electric. People might not like the idea of going to do stuff in jails, but whether you like it or not, people in jail are in your community. They might not be on your doorstep, but they're in your community. So what do you want to do? Do you want to punish them more like the Daily Mail, or do you want to try and engage with people as adults and human beings? I'm not, you know, I'm not sort of going, well, we should give everyone jacuzzis. You know, quite clearly. But what you want is people using their time to create. And it's really exciting looking at people's jail writings. It's really, it's one lad I met, this was a few years ago, when we were doing stuff in jail. He had started writing and had been on the education course and he showed me the pile of A4 books, notebook books he'd filled up with his writings. You know, whether it was raps, whether it was poems, whether it was diary pieces or short story. I swear to you it was about, it's nearly a foot high this pile of books, right, that he had filled in three months. For me, that's really exciting. That's really, really thrilling. And the play has all sorts of stuff in it about jail, about capitalism, about how it works, about about how we survive and what we do. We do to find meaning for ourselves, if you like. It's just a great, it's a great, great, go and have a look at the reviews. They're really good. They're really great reviews.
Speaker 1It sounds incredible, man. It really does. I've got to get out to a show. You're playing all over the place, sometimes several shows a day. In fact, you're actually playing tonight. Is that right?
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm going down to Hove tonight. We've got three nights in Hove, which is all very nice. It's great to do. It's really great. And then I'm working on a new stand-up show and we're looking at ideas for another theatre show and a little bit of a little bit of activism and naughtiness. And then we're looking at some stuff with football and the idea that you can pressurise the football regulator make it look like clubs can't spend more than they earn. You change it all around. So for me, there's all sorts of things going on and it's all very exciting. And I'm 62 now, so I should really be getting ready for my pension. But here's the secret. I haven't got one, so I'm just going to have to keep going.
Speaker 1Yeah, I hear that. I hear that. I'm in exactly the same predicament myself. Yeah, I'm going to be singing and playing the fucking guitar until the day they put me in a box. Well, thankfully, it doesn't sound as if you're going to be running out of ideas or fire or energy anytime soon. So that's great for your purposes and amazing for the rest of us because we get to continue to enjoy the wonderful gifts of Mark Thomas for many years to come. Very kind. Well, speaking of that, where do people keep up with what you're doing? Because you are a busy guy. You're always putting out good shit. But you seem to be off all social media now, apart from Blue Sky and your website, which is obviously excellent and got everything on it. But you want anything else? Can people follow you? That's it. You can
Speaker 2follow me on Blue Sky or on my website. That's it. Top man. Yeah, I like that. It's just another fucking thing I've got to learn. You know, I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1You're not missing anything, man.
Speaker 2I've been doing, I've been performing for 40 years. You either like it or you don't. Come or don't. That's it.
Speaker 1Love it. Love it, man. Yeah, well, as a fan, I'm thrilled to hear that there's going to be more stand-up coming because I'm going to show you one more VHS. Look at this. Brighton Arts Centre 2001, man.
Speaker 2That's, um, that was, oh man, that was a great one. Was that, um... It's a Dambusters tour. Yeah, that was Dambusters when we were
Speaker 1doing the Elissu Dam. Bruv, one of the best gigs I've ever been to. I'm not lying, man. Man, I
Speaker 2kind of, I became involved in a campaign. I started a campaign by accident and working with Kurdish activists with, you know, sort of like green activists, crusties, all sorts of people. Um, and we ran this really amazing campaign. And what was great was right at the beginning, We went to the Kurdish area that this... this project that Britain was supporting was going to take place. And they all said to us, just go and attack the finance. Go and attack the finance. And that's what we did. And we won. Unfortunately, we beat the British government and we beat seven European consortiums and a torturing state. But we didn't win in the end. The Chinese government built the scheme, but we held it off. We did our bit. Was it enough?
Speaker 1Well, no, but I have a feeling it never is. 100%. Yeah, man. Like, well, people ask me, you know, as a musician all the time, you know, what's the best gig you've ever been to? And they always expect me to say a band, you know. And I say, like, Mark Thomas' Dambusters because, like, I went with my father, who was a fan as well. He's no longer with us, sadly. But we both came out of that gig, like, fucking shell-shocked. It was just you on stage telling the story and it was so fucking powerful. It was so powerful and so intense. And we were just, like, shell-shocked when we came out. We didn't speak. We were kind of like, wow, that was a fucking ride. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2That's what you want. You want people to be involved. You want people to be moved. You want people to be excited and full of thoughts and feelings. You know, the idea that you should torture around the stage in fucking tennis whites going, does anyone fancy a game? You know, it just fills me with fucking dread. The idea that, you know, you go and see some theatre sometime, like, I've had the nicest sleeps in the National Theatre. Yeah, it's essentially the most expensive, comfortable chair you can ever rent. And, you know, sometimes you leave the theatre and you just go, I hate every one of the audience.
Speaker 1Yeah, I can relate, yeah.
Speaker 2I want to see working-class theatre. I want to see exciting. I love doing the show wherever we get a chance to do it. You know, I've performed all over the place. I've performed all over the place. I've performed all over the place. Whether it's been in working men's clubs, whether it's been in socialist clubs, whether it's been on fucking squats or car park roofs, or in the street, I'm happy to do a gig. Theatre is kind of like my least favourite venue, but I'll put up with it.
Speaker 1Sure. Well, on that note, speaking of theatres, I've got to let you head off and prepare for tonight, so I've kept you long enough. Mark, thank you so, so much for taking time out to speak with me today. As a long-time fanboy from Wales, you've made me very happy. And it's very kind of you to do this. I appreciate it. Oh, man, I'm really enjoying it. Oh, I'm glad to hear that, man. Well, thank you again for doing it. Thanks for everything you've done generally to inspire, inform, and fire us up and keep us laughing throughout the years. You are a true legend, sir. We salute you. Best of luck with the shows, and please, please keep doing your wonderful thing. Absolute delight. Take good care, my love. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Mark Thomas put it together for him. What an absolute legend. If you're not familiar with Mark's work, you have to go on YouTube and type in the Mark Thomas Comedy Product. Some absolute hero has uploaded pretty much every episode, for what I can tell. There's also loads of other stuff up there as well from his previous stand-up specials and documentaries that he's done. You know, he's a real dude, man. He's done some seriously cool stuff. Mixing activism with comedy and social commentary, using pranks and stunts and some pretty brave undercover work as a way of exposing the crimes that our governments and the corporations do in our name. He's also written several books, not to mention the current play that he is currently touring all around the country, Ordinary Decent Criminal. As he said, he's no longer on social media, so the only way to keep up with what he's doing is to go to markthomasinfo.co.uk where you can get all of his stuff on there, all of his info. He is also on Blue Sky, and that's it. If you get an opportunity to see Mark Thomas doing any kind of performance, you need to get out there and see it. It is a spectacle to behold. Trust me, the guy is a real force in nature, and you'll love it. You'll come away feeling hopeful, enraged, informed, and well-loved. So I hope you enjoyed the conversation. There'll be lots more where that came from. I promise. This podcast isn't going anywhere. I do have gaps between episodes sometimes, but these conversations are going to keep happening. You have my word. So please do subscribe so you don't miss them when they drop. My latest book, Loud Medicine, is currently available. You can get it in all the stores. I'd appreciate it if you pick it up and let me know what you think. And as I mentioned, the new album, by James Kennedy and the Underdogs, is dropping in 2026, baby. The first single's going to be out in a few months, so watch this space. Thanks again for all your support. Stay hopeful. Stay kind. Stay strong. Keep fighting. Take care of yourself. Take care of each other. And I'll see you next time.
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