Speaker 1what's up misfits rebels and underdogs the world over how you doing thanks for tuning in to another episode of the james kennedy podcast we've got a good one for you guys today man and urgently important as well so please please please listen today's conversation will be mostly centered around a specific event which is happening in 10 days time in london so i hope that enough of you catch this episode before it's too late and you can come and join us in london on march the 29th let me tell you what's going down the we demand change summit in london is a day of panels workshops and discussions for campaigners trade unionists and activists to build a movement for a just future and god knows we need that right now guest speakers will include jeremy corbyn janice farrow-farke is andrew feinstein lindsey german owen jones sarah willie grace blakely omar bagouti and many many others issues to be discussed of course are going to be the grotesque situation of the genocide in gaza the state of the economy right now the threat of the far right climate change workers rights the economy and how we can all unify and mobilize as one much needed resistance to all of it this is going to be a much needed coming together of lots of different campaign groups trade unions and like-minded folks from all over the country joining forces to trade ideas unify and mobilize so i really hope that you can come and join us i'll be putting a link to the event and details in the show notes so please do check that out and for those of you that can't join us or if you don't catch this episode in time and you miss it fear not because there are tons of other things that you can get involved with which we will be talking about on today's episode and links will be provided for that also so this episode is going to be a call to action because we're on the cusp of something historic right now and not on a good way and what we need more than ever is a unified opposition and resistance to the worrying growth of the far right and the dominance of far-right politics which is harming all of us except for the one percent the labour party if that is all down badly and we don't have time to hang around anymore man so we have to engage with the only thing that has ever significantly made progress for the better for all of us and that is us the people coming together unified stronger together and saying loud and firm that we are not going to stand for any of this anymore so if you can't join us in london on march the 29th fear not you were with us in spirit please stay connected to the cause there are lots of things you can do online as well to help and to amplify and of course there are local actions happening all of the time all over the country so if you can't join us in london all over the country and all across the world as well so lots of stuff to get into today but more importantly james kennedy and the underdogs are going on tour baby if you'll humor me a quick plug before we take a dive into the main discussion and of course it is relevant because we are a political punk band that have been screaming and shouting about this shit for many years now and all i ever did was get me shadow banned from every platform have my videos taken down off youtube and have my advertising rights revoked on every platform and basically made me invisible as an actor and i'm not going to lie to you i'm not going to lie to you i'm not going to lie to you so we are hitting the road we're taking the message straight out to the streets we're going all across the country waving the palestinian flag screaming and shouting about injustice as we do all that good stuff if you're angry as hell and you want to do something about it then come and check out james kennedy and the underdogs for a cathartic anarchic cleanse all of our tour dates are at jameskennedystuff.com slash tour or if you check me out on instagram at jameskennedyuk you'll find all of the tour dates there we're getting everywhere man we're doing cardiff onesie biddeford plymouth exeter redden leicester wolverhampton cambridge southampton all over the damn place man so come and join us scream and shout and throw yourself about and feel much better for it we hope to see all of you there and before i introduce today's guest please take a second to subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you're listening to it on whether it's youtube spotify apple podbean wherever if you could give it a follow or a subscribe that would be amazing it really helps the algorithm to know that people want to hear this shit and of course we need people to hear this shit so help a brother out and click that button baby okay we're joined today by lewis nielsen the anti-fascist officer at stand up to racism one of the many campaigns behind the upcoming we demand change summit happening in london this march the 29th lewis thank you so much for joining us brother how you doing man i'm good james how are you i'm very well thank you man thank you for asking and all the better for seeing your fine self we got loads of stuff to delve into today but before we do that i wanted to ask if you could a little bit about yourself and the campaign group that you were involved with stand up to racism what is it that you guys do and what is it you campaign for great well it is a real pleasure to
Speaker 2be here james and to be talking to you um so look my name is lewis i'm the anti-fascist officer with stand up to racism we are a broad coalition uh based in britain that campaigns against racism fascism islamophobia and anti-semitism uh to be honest most of our time unfortunately in the last year or so has been taken with racism and anti-fascism and anti-fascism and anti-fascism campaigning against the far right um we were one of their the organizations that did a lot around the response to the far right riots we've seen in august sorry last august um and we spend a lot of our time pissing off tommy robinson and his supporters by organizing counter protests and making sure they're not you know they don't march unopposed um so that's what we're about and then the event we got on the 29th of march um the we demand change summit is really about all the people supporting it coming together and saying something's got to happen you know we've got to try and change the way things are heading in britain so we're really excited about it and it's only it's only 10 days away i think now which um is exciting but there's a lot of stuff to do to put
Speaker 1it all together i can imagine me yeah i can imagine and not the only event that you guys are involved in as well but we'll mention that as we get towards the end just to loop backwards so tell us about what is happening at the event in london on march the 29th if you can
Speaker 2well look the event came about because a few of us from the different campaigns uh stopped the war the peace and justice project jeremy corbyn trade unionists and others have just to state the obvious looked at what's happening in britain looked at the direction keir starmer is going in and said that we need to do something to try and stop this that it's possible for us to come together to debate to discuss but also to be honest to fight back to say that you know the the racist rhetoric he's using around immigration the stuff today announced about the attacks on disability benefit the support for an israeli genocide in gaza it's about saying that if we work together if we join the dots the anti-racist movement the palestine movement the trade union movement if we come together then then we can we can offer a politics of hope because i think i don't know about you james but it's myself my friends my family a lot of people feel despair at the moment i think and the 29th was about trying to say that if we if we come together and organize we can offer a politics of hope
Speaker 1love it well god knows we need that more now than ever before because it is hard to maintain hope at the moment man you know i'm in the sheer scale of injustice and unfairness that we're witnessing right now across the world not even to mention the horrors of the genocide in gaza that we're all witnessing on a daily basis that just seem to go completely unopposed by the world's powers it is hard to keep one's hope and one's fight at a time like this you know but i'm sure that that's exactly what the powers that be want and that's why i love events like this and activism more generally because it always makes you realize that you're not alone that there are way more of us than there are of them that there are way more good people in opposition to the bad guys then you might be led to believe if you look at twitter or the mainstream media for five minutes so i always feel better and more hopeful when i come away from one of these things and so far the numbers are looking good right you've got like what thousands of perspective to turn up to this one yeah i mean look we're confident that at
Speaker 2this point people will be a booked in advance more will turn up on the door some will join online and you know like you just said james this is about building collective power from below it's not about saying we have to i don't know hope that someone in the labour party drags it a bit leftwards or wait until there's some electoral project you know i'm for i'm for challenging starmer but it's really about saying that you know our power lies when we when we mobilize when we organize and when we get out on the streets when we organize in workplaces communities and that kind of thing and and you know we think that kind of thing can turn the tide um i think i think it's you know it's understandable why people feel despair but to be honest fear-mongering etc is going to get us nowhere do you know i mean we have to have a sober analysis about what we face which is a big threat but we have to say right we're going to to crack on we're trying to change things and if we do that we think we can you know we think we can have an impact in britain um i i maybe i'm an optimist but i honestly believe that there are more anti-racists in britain than racists i think there's more people in support of palestine than there is in support of what israel is doing and you know i think there's more people who who want to spend money on supporting people with you know on benefits than they do want to on giving the rich tax cuts and and i think that the question is is we've just
Speaker 1got to organize those people isn't it 100 100 and thank you to yourself and everybody involved in this but for making that happen as well it's so important um you've already alluded to some of the uh the pressing social issues that that face us right now i'd like to do a bit more of a deeper dive in that i mean we can talk about this either from your personal perspective or obviously as a representative of the event and the campaign group that you're a part of but i'd like to ask you and you can answer it from whichever angle you want to do so what do you feel are the most pressing issues for us as a country right now and and as part of a global
Speaker 2community as well well i do think that if you look around europe i think the rise of the far is, well, to put it mildly, is one of the biggest challenges we're going to face. I mean, if you look now, the picture around Europe is that far right or even fascist parties are getting 20% of the vote or are getting elected. I mean, the German election result that came through, what was it, a month ago now, you know, there's a fascist party in Germany getting 20%. And these guys don't really hide it, to be honest. You know, they openly embrace the controversy of, you know, Holocaust denial, of calling for mass deportations and so on. My biggest worry is that Britain is not far behind. You know, if you look at Farage and reform, I do think it's a unique threat that we've never actually faced in Britain. I mean, this is a far right party, which now, well, now it's four MPs, because, you know, thankfully they're falling out of each other a bit. But it's going to win a lot of councillors in May. I think it could win something like 200, 300. They're probably going to win the by-election in Runcorn. There's a chance of that. And they've got 200,000 members. And we feel... I think that it's time to sound the alarm about that. And we also think that Starmer is playing into their hands, to be honest. You know, when I see Yvette Cooper talking about, you know, bragging about deporting migrants, when I see Starmer essentially trying to copy reform's rhetoric on migration and et cetera, and then cozying up to people like Donald Trump and the fascist Giorgio Meloni, who's prime minister of Italy, you just think, look, this isn't going to stop Nigel Farage. It's going to give him more confidence. Because he's setting the agenda. You know what I mean? You know, if you look around you, if it's never worked, social democratic or conservative parties, you know, using the language of the far right, if anything, it gives them more confidence. But we're saying that it's possible if you organise that we can push back against that. And last August showed that, I think. I mean, you know, you'll remember it as much as me, James, and I'm sure the listeners will, that it was really scary for a week, wasn't it? To be honest, it really felt like they were on the rampage. Yeah. And people were... Well, understandably, especially people of colour and people of, you know, Muslim background, et cetera, were worried about going out. What turned that was not the police and it wasn't Starmer. It was that we came out, wasn't it? It was that from Walthamstow right up to Hull, to Plymouth, to all over the country. People said, we're not standing for that. And we think we need a bit of that now. And I do honestly think that, you know, I think reform are a danger, but I don't think they're unstoppable. I think they've got their own problems. They've got their own contradictions. If we get that anti-racist message out there, we can stop them. So for me, that's one... That is the biggest thing at the moment, I think, where you just think, you know, Trump has a vision, doesn't he? Of him in the White House, of Farage in number 10, of Le Pen in France, of Maloney in Italy, and all the rest of it. And we've got to say, we're not letting them take us back to the 1930s.
Speaker 1Amen to that, man. Yeah, hell no. I mean, what do you think is behind this disturbing growth of the right again then? And we've been here before. We've learned these lessons, man. Like, why is this happening? What do you personally think is behind this rampant growth of the far right again?
Speaker 2Well, look, I think that's the biggest question, isn't it? In the sense of it does feel like the far right are at their strongest level since the 1930s. I think there's two things to understand about it. One is, is that the way in which mainstream parties, including parties like Labour, have driven through austerity has created real bitterness in society. You know, people are poorer, aren't they? Standards have been cut. Wages have stagnated. Inflation's higher. So people's lives are harder. And people are right to be angry. I think the second thing is, is that mainstream parties have also embraced racism that has emboldened the far right. So it's now common if it's in Germany, it's in France, it's in Britain, it's in Spain. Pretty much every social democratic party, as well, of course, of conservative parties like the Tories, have embraced Islamophobia. They've accepted the idea that migrants are a problem. When actually you look at it, migrants build our societies, like the NHS, et cetera. And they go along with the idea that, you know, asylum seekers on small boats or whatever are the biggest problem. And I think the combination of those two things, of them creating bitterness in society and then, you know, pandering to the racism, means that the far right can pose, one, they can pose as outsiders. You know, it's ridiculous, isn't it, that millionaires like Trump and Farage are able to pose as outsiders. But two, they're using arguments which are being used by the mainstream. You know, their kind of racist rhetoric is being used by the mainstream. And, you know, what we argue, James, is that that's why we need principled anti-racism, but we do need an alternative. And that's what the summit on the 29th is about, really. Like, it's not about proper, you know, it's not about saying no to reform and we're just going to prop up the Labour government. It's about saying, actually, we can build an alternative. You can say to people that pensions don't have to freeze. That we don't have to cut disabled benefit while the rich get richer. And there's more billionaires than ever. You know, it's about saying you have to offer a politics of hope. And that means you have to, you know, anti-racism is key. But we have to say that the world can be a different place as well, where, you know, people don't have to be bitter about their lives getting harder.
Speaker 1100%. Beautifully put, man. So what does a better, different, alternative future look like for you?
Speaker 2Well, that's a good question. That's a good question. I mean, look, for me, if you look at what capitalism offers, and we look relatively the same age, James, but, you know, for my generation, I just think my future, I'm 31, is going to be one where the climate catastrophe is going to get worse. I mean, climate change is going to be a very real, well, it is already real. You look at what happened in LA over Christmas. I look at the rise of the far right. I look at the fact that, to be honest, for my whole adult life, there's been economic crisis since 2008. Where, you know, the economy has meant that ordinary people have faced cuts while the rich have got richer. And, you know, all the other things going on, the rise of transphobia, et cetera, et cetera. That's what capitalism offers, right? What kind of alternative do we need? I do think it's possible for us to build a world where profit isn't king, where, you know, the destruction of the environment because so Shell and BP can make record profits isn't just a given, where we don't have to accept, the idea that they're going to play migrant workers off against indigenous workers, you know, so that they're not uniting together. And I think it's possible that we can build a more just and sustainable world. And that for me, to be honest, is a different kind of society. You know, maybe I'm going to shock you, James, but I'm an anti-capitalist. I think that, you know, the problem in society is the way that the system is run. And I honestly think there's a potential. And you see it all the time in the movements for Gaza or when people go on strike or the solidarity people show with, you know, people who are under attack, that that kind of feeling and spirit is something which I think we can channel into a much better, much better kind of world.
Speaker 1You madman, you mean you want a more equal society where capital doesn't trash the planet and everybody's lives and we'll have to live as stressed out cogs in a machine in order to make billionaires richer? But are you crazy? It sounds terrible, doesn't it? It sounds amazing. I don't know. Why it's so bloody difficult for us to get that over the line, you know, I mean, these are all the things, all the things you just mentioned are all the things that we all want. It all seems so obvious, doesn't it? Everybody wants equality and security and a life of dignity and freedom and human rights. And there's not really any reason why we shouldn't all be able to live that life. But it seems to me that after the honeymoon period, after the Second World War ended, where we had the birth of the NHS and free education and workers' rights and the welfare state and the rebuild. We've been building up the country in a much more equal and socially aware way. It seems that ever since then, we've just been slipping back into the old oligarchic ways of the past. Why is that? How have we let that happen? How has it happened? Why has it happened? And how do we get from 1947 to where we're at now in 2025? What's going on?
Speaker 2Well, if I could also answer that, James, I'm not sure we'd be here. We'd be living in a kind of egalitarian paradise. But I guess, look. The biggest question for me, right, is, do the majority of people in Britain and the world, I think there's big numbers of people who want to see change, who recognise the world is a fucked up place, to be honest. And partly that's because of the big stuff happening, climate change, the rise of the far right, etc. But also, it's like, because people's own experience is hard, isn't it? I mean, I'm one of the, I think I'm the first generation who has it harder than my parents did. You know, I speak to my mum about this, right? My mum was the first in her family to go to university ever. She got paid a grant to do that, that she never had to pay back, by the way. It was a grant. She came out of university, could get a good job and could buy a house, to be honest, at the age of 30 or whatever. Now, that actually wasn't, that was actually quite normal. And I'm not saying that capitalism in the 70s or whenever that was, was amazing. There was lots of problems, but there was an expectation you could do that. None of that's now there for me, right? None of that's there for my generation. And therefore, I think people. They recognise it and want to see change. And you see that manifest itself in the support for people like Jeremy Corbyn or Bernie Sanders, in the Palestine movement, in BLM, in the climate movement and so on. What I think is the challenge is that we haven't yet found a way to break the power of the people you were talking about. Like we haven't, we've shaken, we've shaken the system, haven't we? BLM did, the climate movement, Palestine has, et cetera, shaken the system. But the power structure still remains the same. mind intact, you know, the way you know the big corporations the way in which the politicians and the media support them the way in which the police protect them and i think how we build movements therefore that shape actually can break that power that's the biggest question and i don't have all the answers for that i mean the summit on the 29th you know we're not saying we have all the answers right it's not like it's not going to be a top-down thing where you come on and in the first session we're going to give you the what is to be done and follow the leader yeah well exactly i mean you know we want we want to discuss we think there's got to be a discussion about this and there's lots of different views etc my biggest thing is is how the magnificent movement for palestine we've seen the anti-fascist mobilizations how do we build them into something more and i'm for i mean my personal view is and i'm not really speaking on behalf of any organization here my personal view is is i think we do need an electoral challenge i think it will be good in britain you if the left got its act together and and and and put starman under pressure this may may 26 beyond but to be honest i think you have to go further than that as well i i think if i think about the palestine movement the biggest power of that has been what we've done in the streets the mass demonstrations the student encampments the staff people have been at work i think we need more of that because you know you look throughout history that's how real changes come about and you know that that's the thing we should take inspiration from that you know whether it's a civil rights movement in america or not it's a civil rights movement in america or not it's a big worker struggles we've seen whether it's the struggle for women's rights at the beginning of the 20th century all of that came from below and and those changes were won from below and i think you know if we're going to change things today it will be through that kind of mass movement
Speaker 1and mass collective power that will do that 100 and great examples as well there man you know it's important for us to to remind ourselves that there have been many times in the not so distant past as well where things have seemed pretty insurmountable and futile but people power did indeed prevail it's never easy yeah and it's never an easy win but it is possible and you know many would argue including myself and i'm sure yourself as well that it's it's the only thing that ever achieved any form of effective change is grassroots collective organizing and pressure from below so we can't find hope in those examples that you just mentioned there and as we said at the start you know hope is something that we could all do with a hefty injection of right now because it's pretty tough right now and i share your view of parliamentary politics as well and i wanted to ask you what hope speaking of hope do you feel that there is in the electoral parliamentary system given our recent experience of it i mean you know we've got kia starmer as the leader of the labour party now so it doesn't get more surreal than that yeah should we fight this battle on that battlefield as well within parliaments or should we just forget about those guys and just focus all on the streets and unifying together what are your thoughts on the parliamentary system as we have it today is there any hope in that institution and if so where is it well look it's staying with the
Speaker 2theme of hope james right the hope for me i have is that look i've been politically active for about 10 12 years right since i was at university in that time there's been the corbyn stuff which was massive you know everyone my age you know gravitated towards corbyn what that was fantastic there's been a climate movement which was massive you know the school strikes the blm stuff huge palestine so there's been these big things right though if you if you if you put all of those together you're talking about a critical mass of people in britain yeah who have organized who have been politicized and know that things have to change so my question is is how do we cohere that how do we get those people together and how do we crystallize that into something that can win real change my personal opinion on the experience of corbynism is that as what a fantastic development it was and what a big impact it had i think the fact that it was pushed into the labour party like you're saying and pushed into parliamentary politics meant that we fought it on a terrain which wasn't even to be honest you know parliamentary politics is rigged in favor of of of those in power to be honest you know that that audrey lord quote what is it you know the the master's tools will never burn down the master's house right if voting changed anything they'd make it illegal like you know that that terrain is harder i think we need to operate on it but if we just focus on that i think it will sap our energy and you know we have to end up making concessions and compromises etc i'm therefore of the opinion that that big number of people i've talked about from across the different movements if those people are encouraged to lead to become organizers leaders in communities in school in their university in their workplaces then we're much more we've got a bigger chance i think of changing things i don't think that's easy and i'm not saying it's simple and i don't think i've got all the answers for it but i think that kind of politics is what we need and you know i think there's an opportunity right now around gaza to be honest i mean the stuff last night is horrific right i mean you know it looks like israel is now going to what is resuming its genocidal assault right what are we going to do about that i'm for voting for left-wing candidates in may 25 in a month's time and i'm for doing it in may 26 but it can't wait can it and i actually think we've got to think you know the magnificent stuff that we've seen on the streets from stop the war to psc etc i think we've got to make the country ungovernable and say yes that while the support is being pumped into what israel is doing we're not going to let them do it you know we're not going to we're not going to pretend this is normal we're not going to accept that this is happening and and i think that kind of if you think about it that way then you think about how mass mobilization can lead to disruption and can also begin to say look you know that our real power comes from below man you're getting me fired up just listening to you
Speaker 1mate honestly i love it and i would i agree with you 100 brilliantly put i mean there's nothing i can add to that man um i think that is the perfect way to do it i think that's the perfect way to do it i think that's the perfect way to do it i think that's the perfect way to do it i think that's the perfect way to do it i think that's the perfect way to do it i think that's the perfect way to do it because you've gotten you've got some fire in my belly i think that's the perfect way for us to wrap up let's just remind everybody then who's going to be on the same page now after listening to your brilliant words what is happening on march the 29th and how can they get involved so saturday
Speaker 2the 29th of march it's the we demand change summit of resistance there's going to be thousands of people there there's going to be big speakers jeremy corbyn omar bagouti and so on but to be honest it's today for action planning and mobilizing there's going to be workshops sessions there's going to be live music and it's about the left coming together and saying look we can turn the tide on despair it's in east london it's at the cause which is a fantastic music venue that you might know it's going to be a fantastic event and i'd really urge everyone listening to get there on the day and be part of the debate and discussion to say look this could be a line in the sand we're not going to accept the way things are going we can change it and we can do that if we come together
Speaker 1and we organize brilliant well just to reiterate that is the we demand change summit happening on march the 29th at the cause in london there will be a link in the show notes and we really really hope that you can all make it as i mentioned at the start if you can't make it fear not there are loads of other things that you'll be able to get involved in through whatever means you can happening all across the country all of the time and the best way to find out about what's happening in your local area and how you can be involved is to head to stand up to racism.org.uk it's a brilliant website full of resources and links and things you can get involved with there's also a contacts page in there where you can get in touch with your local groups and if you follow them on their socials as well you'll get in the minute updates on things that are happening as they happen with that said lewis we have to bid you farewell my friend because i know you've got a rush off and do another one of these but thank you so much for giving us your time man we really really do appreciate it and thank you for everything you're doing for the cause as well mate best wishes with the event best wishes with everything moving forward and peace strength and solidarity man
Speaker 2amazing thank you james and thanks everyone for listening thank you man we'll see you soon take
Speaker 1care bro cheers there he goes give it up for lewis nielsen from stand up to racism i don't think there's anything i need to add because we pretty much covered everything during the conversation there i hope you enjoyed listening to it and i hope you got something to take away from that and i really do hope that as many of you as possible can join us on march the 29th at the cause in london for the we demand change summit links to everything we just talked about are gonna be in the show notes so please go and check those out and get involved and before i bid you farewell i'm gonna nag you one more time subscribe to the podcast man come on look at all this free goodness you're getting no adverts disturbing you no corporate sponsorship no censorship just great insights from great minds trying to make the world a better place and all you gotta do in return is hit subscribe or follow or give me a star rating or give a review if you want and if you listen to the thing on youtube you can leave a comment and also join in the conversation there as well so until next time take care yourself Take care of each other, fight the power, and stay safe.
PodcastTranscript AI