Speaker 1What's going on, misfits, underdogs, rebels, and pirates from wherever you are tuning in from, good day to ya. Thanks for joining us today, I hope you've been enjoying the recent episodes. We had a great one last week with the mighty, the monstrous, and the brilliant Mr. George Mambio dropping some truth bombs, baby. If you haven't heard that one yet, please do go back and check it out, it was a good'un. And I also owe you guys an apology as well, because I did promise on the first episode of Season 2 that we would be moving over to video, which we did actually do for the first episode with Steven Donziger, and then I promptly stopped fucking bothering immediately right after. And let me tell you why. Doing a video podcast takes twice as much time and effort as doing a regular audio one, because obviously you've got to account for the video side of things as well, the recording, the process, and all that bullshit. And I kind of realised doing the first one that, but there's nothing really happening on the video, it's just two dudes chatting on fucking Zoom. You know, you're not seeing anything spectacular or entertaining happening. You don't. You need to be fucking staring at us staring at each other through Zoom. It's fucking pointless, right? And I think that all of us need to spend way less time staring at screens full stop, okay? What's important about these conversations is the content of the conversations, the brilliant things that the guests have got to say, and what they look like over a grainy Zoom camera whilst they're saying it, I feel is fucking irrelevant, and a waste of your time staring at it. Just put the conversation on in the background and lap it up and enjoy it, whilst you're doing something else, whilst you're lying down in the sunshine or cleaning the fucking house or driving or whatever it is. You don't need to be staring at a screen. So I am putting my foot down. I'm not going to bother proceeding with any video episodes unless, you know, I feel like it adds something of value to the conversation. I'm not ruling it out completely. I might do it again sometime, but for now, we're back to audio, and I'm sure you understand why that is. It's for your own benefit, man. I want you to spend less time staring at the fucking screen. Right, well, now that's out of the way, let's crack the hell on with today's conversation, because this one is one I've been excited for for a long time. I've been a fan of this guy for decades. He's a massive inspiration to me as a musician, as well as, you know, millions of other people the world over. Before we jump into it, have you subscribed to the podcast? Please, please, please do it. It makes a massive difference. It really does help us out. All you've got to do is click the button. It's really not that difficult, so just, if you could just click follow or subscribe or whatever, whatever the fuck it is, just give it a click. It really does make a difference, so thank you to all of you that have done that so far. Now, let's get down to business. Joining us today is the unstoppable creative tsunami who has been giving us all the loud medicine for many, many years and shows no sign of slowing down, selling out, or getting soft. I think he's a genius, but he's also an all-around awesome human, and we're very lucky to have him. I'm talking about Mr. Ginger Wildheart. Ginger, how you doing, man?
Speaker 2I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I'm having a bit of trouble with my computer, and I narrowly missed cutting my thumb off this morning, chopping some wood. So, you can hear me, and I've still got a thumb, so it's all good.
Speaker 1Well, thank the Lord for that, because if Ginger Wildheart lost a thumb, that would be a fucking devastation for all of us, man. So, hallelujah to that.
Speaker 2If I lost a thumb, I would figure out how to play keyboards. No, actually, I'd just go into fucking management and get rich. Oh, what a thankless task that would be. Well, actually, I'm fucking as much a manager of what I'm doing now as a manager's ever been, only because I'm dealing with, well, me and my partner's dealing with everything, and I've had really rubbish managers over the years. So, yeah, it's not lost on me that management is a fucking easy job. It's just delegation.
Speaker 1Right, well, I'm glad you mentioned that, because we're going to come back to that, because I want to ask you about... All this stuff to do with the industry and how you release the music and your thoughts on the business and stuff like that. But we've got to first mention, straight out of the gates, the order of business today, which is the new album, The Satanic Rites of the Wild Hearts, which is coming out on March 7th, which is right around the corner. I've heard it. It's fucking brilliant. I'd love to get your lowdown on the record as the man involved in it. Tell us about the new record, what it sounds like, what went into it, how did it come together. Tell us about the record.
Speaker 2Oh, I wish I could make you full screen. But, you know what it is. It is what it is. Tell us about what the new record... The new album, yeah, man. Oh, it's good. Oh, it is. Oh, it's good. It was written, as will be made more public, I was in hospital, I was sectioned. And I came out of hospital and I had no interest in music whatsoever. For the first time in my life, I had no interest in music. And then a song came and I figured, oh, that's weird. Because I couldn't even... I couldn't even listen to music. And then a song came and then another one came. Before I knew it, I had an album's worth of stuff. So I called up a bunch of friends and was like, look, I need to demo this stuff before life takes over, as it has a want to do. And I got John Poole, I got Carver's Tarabi, and I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson.
Speaker 1And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson.
Speaker 2And I got John Poole, I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson. I never write sitting down with a guitar, ever. I complete the songs sitting down with the guitar, but I write walking and get all my ideas walking, being inspired by whatever it is, thoughts, the surroundings, me fucking dog, you know, whatever it is. It doesn't matter. As long as the inspiration is there, then the connection is there. And I believe that is a connection where you're using pure consciousness. And this is what I think artists use to get the statue from that big block of stone. You just chip away what isn't the statue. You're painting until the picture's there that's in your head. But I think the process involves consciousness. When I'm in tune, when I get inspired, I've got a fucking hotline. Hotline to whatever the fuck it is consciousness comes from and however the fuck it works through us. I presume it's the brain being some kind of receiver or router. Then I'm speaking and the language is a common language of music for me. That's the language. And so the music just comes pouring through. And sometimes it's a scramble to get the ideas down before, you know, they fucking blow my mind or fuck up somewhere. So I'll just start scrambling. Scribbling down lines, getting the guitar, trying to get the chords down. Will you fucking just hold on a second? There's tons of you and there's only one of me down here. But I sometimes feel like it's a spiritual committee up there that are piping in these ideas. That's the only explanation why my songs meander all over the fucking place. It's a cross between my mind, as you'll find in the next hour, meandering all over the place. But the fact that there's more than one source of information. Coming through. So I've always thought of it as being a purely natural thing. And it's never better exemplified than when I'm going through something personal. Like I'm going through, you know, an emotional thing or a mental health thing. And I'll get a piece of music or the guitar will just say, you know, I've got you, you know, pick me up. We've got things to do. And I will. And it'll just, it'll come through. But I nail what it is I'm feeling in this song. And then I think, this is fucking magic. This is brilliant. Put the song out. If it connects to anyone in any way, then I feel like this is more of a service than a job or a hobby or something like that. Yes. But if it connects with someone on exactly the same emotional or spiritual or mental level. Then it's, it's direct contact. It's communication. It's a language. Again, the language is sprouting off and communication tendrils, if you like, but then I feel this is magic. This is not me just scrabbling a bunch of chords together and try and palm myself off as the next fucking Noel Gallagher or whatever. This is something that's going on. It's going on through me into something else. And I'm a conduit. Or I'm a receiver to spread some kind of communication, whatever the fuck it is. And believe me, it's been confusing over the years, what the fuck that is. But that's because I'm not understanding the connection between me and it and it and me and the message going out there. But the older I get and the more that I do this, the more I realize that it's not just me. And I can't really take credit for all of these songs. Even though I will, thankfully, and I'll collect the publishing and thank you, universe, and thank you, people out there. But yeah, the whole thing is, I feel is bigger than me. And I know that sounds a little bit woo-woo, but it's the only way I can, I can understand or explain why, how I've written so many fucking songs. Because I only know that many chords. I don't even know the names of some of them. Honestly, I'm in the studio and I play a chord. And I'm like, John, what's that chord? And he knows all the chords. So he tells me, but I don't know what I'm doing most of the time. And, you know, I'm not a highly educated man. So I've got no right to have that many words and that many subjects. Um, but it's, yeah, I feel like the process is bigger than me, but I get inspired by living, uh, by being in the countryside. So I decided when I came out of hospital, look, I'm going to make a big decision here. I'm going to. I'm going to strip myself back to, to, to my, my primal, basic self, and I'm going to build myself up. I'm going to get rid of all of the negativity of my life, step by step. And I'm going to go to that place that I usually go away to write in the countryside. And as soon as it got here, the whole thing started making a bit more sense. No, a hundred percent yet. Still trying to figure a lot of it out. But the process is starting. It's starting to make a lot more sense.
Speaker 1That's absolutely fascinating, man. And the fact that you're kind of almost giving a lot of credit to that other place that it's coming from the inspiration, um, which seems to be serving you quite well, mate. It hasn't, um, it hasn't been rationing it out between you and other people, you know, it's still fucking giving it to you.
Speaker 2I'm sure it's rationing it out, but, um, it's, uh, it's, there's a lot of it.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2I do believe that we're living life wrong. I believe that we're. And not realize most of us, if not all of us, I don't know, but most of us have got some potential we're not tapping into. We've got something that we haven't done and this thing's restricting us, our job or geographically or fucking, you know, emotionally, you know, with a fucking in a relationship that you don't like with a bunch of mates who are fucking draining you. And not many people have the, have the, the bravery to go fuck it all. I'm going to get rid of it all. I'm going to start again. I'm going to go wherever I like. For me, it's a countryside for some people. It's living next door to a train station and making that fucking leap off the cliff and building your wings on the way down. Love it. And that's what I decided to do. And, uh, and it, and it works, but I think everybody has got this thing that they're not doing and they're not living their life completely. And you can't better your life unless you're prepared to take some risks. The higher the risk, the better the dividends.
Speaker 1Oh, man. Man, beautifully put, brother. Beautifully put. I mean, these are very spiritual answers. I noticed when listening to the new record that there's a lot of that in the lyrics as well, particularly the last track, which is absolutely fantastic, by the way. Um, is this a new dimension to your life now or have you always been sort of spiritually oriented and some of these things are slotting more into place now at this point in your life?
Speaker 2I've always been spiritual, but the thing is when I'm drinking, my spirituality vanishes and it's all about me, you know, and my internalized, you know, I used to have a lot of anger in my life and I internalized that anger, uh, would drink, um, and then usually externalize it and fucking piss everyone else off. And, and, and this thing was just like a huge brick wall that I couldn't see. So I knew there was a spiritual side to me, but like, how the fuck do you get to that spiritual side? Apart from just knowing. And it's there. Um, and I decided to devote my life to it. And when I moved to the countryside, I was like, okay, the first port of call is address this fucking spiritual business. Is it bullshit or is there something going on? And over the period of time, I've managed to figure out pretty much what reality is, what spiritualism is. Um, and, and, you know, done a lot of reading, uh, more practice than reading. But a lot of reading to find out, you know, for instance, I got into spiritualism for up there, stoicism for down here. And, uh, and the two were brilliant, but again, not a hundred percent. And this is where people fail. They go, they go into something and go, well, I've got to follow every single word. No, you take away from anything what you need. Um, and, um, and I'm adopting that process with everything. Um, with my, uh, uh, you know, alcohol use for one, you know, most people just go into the program. And then, you know, I'd hear every word in the, in the fucking book of bill. And I'm like, well, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm self-aware enough to know that's not me. And I did try it. I went into the program in New York for a year and a half and I got everything that I could possibly get out of it and realized what it is in, in, in, you know, conjecture in with me, with my relationship to it, my relationship to alcohol, my relationship to fucking everything. It's, it's just thinking that it's everything and I'm an obsessive. So I do tend to get into things a hundred percent.
Speaker 1Oh God, me too.
Speaker 2Um, and, and with everything with stoicism, with Buddhism, I'm just taking out what I can use on my journey forward. Um, and, uh, that's, I love it.
Speaker 1I love it.
Speaker 2I think that's all these answers will be long winded because I don't know how to do short answers or short songs.
Speaker 1No, we don't want the short answers. We want the fucking juice, man. That's what we want. That's what we're here for you. We don't, we don't need the soundbites. You can, you can go as long as you want to. I love it. That's why I wanted to talk to you because you're fascinating for me as an artist, but also as someone who's written myself, you know, openly about my own mental health struggles and everything. And my last book and my forthcoming book and a lot of my songs and stuff, all of these, these sort of different areas that I'm interested in. on a personal and artistic level, you are living and doing. So I'm fascinated by all of it. So take as long as you need, man. I wanted to ask you about a lot of the things you've just talked about, like substance use and self-discovery and getting to the root cause of what a lot of your baggage may have been over the years and things like that. And you sound like you're in a really good space now, which is amazing to hear. But living the life that you've led and the journey that you've traveled down, what have you learned? What are the real pearls of wisdom that you could share with other people who might not be where you're at in that part of the road yet, who are struggling or battling demons or vices or whatever it is? What are the main core lessons that you could pass on?
Speaker 2Well, if anyone wants to improve their life, the smart thing, the only advice that I would give them is how to begin. Because once you get people overwhelmed, it all goes to shit. And I've tried it, especially with mental health problems. But even if you're just stifled in, the first step is stop. Stop it all. That's the hardest thing. People have got fucking chatter in their head, chatter distractions all around them. Stop. Your only objective at the beginning is to focus on yourself. You can't see the bigger picture unless you put yourself first. And that's where a lot of people make mistakes. They join a gym and they're intimidated by the muscled people and all of this fucking bullshit that you're told to do. It starts with you. It's a very, very simple beginning. What's a very, very simple concept. The actual practice is really fucking hard. But the good news is the hardest stuff is at the beginning. Once you get over the beginning, you're on your way. And then every day is a school day. You're learning all the fucking time. But you've got to open yourself up to learn. And that's where people go wrong. And that's why the advice that people get is, it's such fucking crap. Basically, I would say, stop what you're doing. Get rid of all the negativity. That is enough to be getting on with before you start tackling your own fucking boxes full of shit, which you've got to do. You've got to get really honest with yourself. You can't get honest with yourself, which is a very, very difficult and ugly process because no one wants to look in those hidden recesses and be like, that's okay. Um, it's about getting 100% honest with yourself, but you can't even begin the process unless you stop. Stop the fucking world.
Speaker 1Ah, bro, fucking hell. You are dropping some fucking wisdom bombs here, man. This is good shit. So are there any daily practices that you do to maintain homeostasis for yourself? You know, you said you spend time in nature. Are you an exerciser? Do you meditate? Do you have a specific diet thing that you follow? Or what are some other practices that you've found?
Speaker 2Well, it's everything, isn't it? It's, it's, it's everything. Well, at the stage I am, and I've been practicing this intensely for a year and a half. You come a long way in a year and a half. So trying to, trying to get it all down now, I think would be confusing for anyone who can use any of this experience of mine. But I will say that you can't leave anything out. You know, you can't get a great life. You can't rearrange. You can't change your life and make it work without diet, without exercise, without, you know, getting rid of all of those isms, you know, and I had a lot of isms and now, well, I've still got Buddhism and Stoicism. There are only two isms left. But there's a lot of work. There's a, it's a fucking hard, like I said, it's a very ugly process. You've got to look in all of those. You know, I just went into my attic when I was ready to do the work before. I made the big leap of moving to the countryside, which is a fucking big one. In itself, especially for someone like me, you know, don't they say that, you know, death, heartbreak and moving house, they're the three most stressful, stressful fucking things that anyone can go through. So yeah, when I found that I was ready to do the work, then it was that personal inventory part, which is fucking horrible. Let's face it. So I just had a huge attic full of boxes, full of shit that one day I was going to come back to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I had a wardrobe full of clothes. I was one day going to wear if I ever lost weight. Thankfully, I fit the clothes in the boxes are all fucking empty now. So I got there. But yeah, it was a case of Jesus, you know, that feeling of being overwhelmed. That's the thing that puts people off. That's the thing that put me off. Right. So I thought, well, okay, the first step is the first box. Open up the fucking box, find out what ugly shit is in there and deal with it. And that was the fucking hardest part for this whole process is that first box, that first fucking ugly session with yourself going into your subconscious, you know, working on your ego. I mean, there's all these things that you've got to do with your own spiritual self, which is about understanding the relationship between ego, your subconscious, your conscious, your consciousness, all of this stuff. Again, it's overwhelming if you try and put too much into something, because you've come a certain way, but the basics are figuring out, get rid of the past and fuck the future. And they're really, really hard to do. But in the past, that's where depression lives in the future. That's where anxiety lives. The only hope you've got is to live in the moment. You know, very simple concept, very hard to do because you've got to keep reminding yourself that this is all that matters. This is all that will ever, ever matter is the moment. And then it's practicing, practicing, practicing, practicing, getting fit. You know, I went from being a very overweight for me, a very overweight, unfit guy to now I'm fit as fuck. Fittest I've ever been, um, mentally and physically. And, uh, it was all about living in the moment, accepting that you're in control. You're in control of your mental health. Even though you've been told for ages from society and from this fucked up system that we adhere to that the answer is in, in medicine, the solution is in therapy. You've got no control. You need help. It's bullshit. They want to take away your power. You know, the system wants to take away your power, which is why we have newspapers and media. That's all led. The narrative is structured, um, to take away your power. That's why we're here. That's why you get the education that you get. You get the education that just enough to make you not challenge the system because you don't answer too many questions. You don't want to be too curious.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And so, yeah, we've got more power over our own mental health than we ever thought possible from everything that you've learned. And again, this comes into being when you start focusing on yourself. I, one of the things I wanted to learn when I went away, it was what the fuck is depression. I've suffered from it all my life. I still don't have a clue what it is. I know what it is now. And I know pretty much how to cope with it. I know how to cope with it enough to know that I'm not, I'm going to stay alive. And that was my biggest problem is that, you know, long-term solution to a short term problem. Um, and you know, you can't even use the word suicide. That's how much of a, a narrative we've got. You can't trigger people, you know, triggering people. You should trigger people, but they should have something that they can go into and go, okay, I'm triggered. How do I learn my core mechanisms and my skills that I've fucking perfected. And that's why they're taking the power away from you. So you need them. You don't need them. You don't need anyone but yourself. And obviously unless you work on yourself, everything around you is fucked. If you're rotten, everything's rotten. If you're hurt, they're hurt.
Speaker 1That is the most beautiful and concise answer on that whole subject that I've heard in a long, long time. And there's so much in there. And I love the fact that you've kept it open for people to explore their own personal experience. And what works for them may not work for you and vice versa, because we are given these kind of regimented prescriptions for things, whether it's in a book, you know, this is the answer to all of your problems and you have to do this program, et cetera, et cetera. And that's always been a thing for me is that like, well, some of it resonated and some of it didn't. And then you get confused. And I think the fact that you're like, Hey, look, you know, just explore this, figure out what works for yourself, take your time, but do the work. I think that's really, really powerful and inspiring. I think so. Thank you for sharing that, man.
Speaker 2Well, I always, I always think to myself, the solution is hard work, but so is the fucking problem. The problem is really hard work differences. You'll learn fuck all from the problem. You'll learn a lot from looking for the solution, but yeah, everybody, it, you're going to treat this like your fucking fingerprint. You know what I mean? Everyone needs a finely tuned version to fit their own life. Um, and that, that that's where people go wrong. They read a book and they follow the book or they read. If anyone wants to improve their life, I'll tell you what book to get. And it's by Eckhart Stolle or Eckhart Stoll. Uh, it's called the power of now, and you'll learn everything in there that you need to get started. And it gets a little bit hairy fairy from time to time. time to time, but the basics are there. And again, you've got to start with the basics. You can't look at your body and go, I want to get fit. There's so far to go because it's about work. And even when you get there, you've still got to do the work. You've still got to be in the now. So learning how to be in the now is a great lesson for the future. Talk about coping skills. That's the best one.
Speaker 1Amazing. Well, you're not the first person to recommend that book to me. I've got it downstairs and I haven't read it. So now I'm going to make that the first thing I do today is to read that book because a lot of people have told me that's changed their life. So there's another referral.
Speaker 2I would recommend also the audio book because he's got a nice voice. It's a very relaxing voice. And a lot of it goes in. I mean, he does recommend that you don't listen to every word or you don't read every word because the message still goes in. Don't get bogged down with the details. And I find that I've read the book and I've done the audio book and I find the audio book, at least for me, worked much better. Because subliminally, more was going in.
Speaker 1Okay, that's really good to know. But one of the things that I always thought about as a creative person, because I write quite dark, heavy music. I'm talking about politics and social issues and the darker sides of human nature and things like that. And I've had a lot of my own struggles with stress and alcohol and fucking anger and depression and anxiety and things like that. And I've always felt that if I take too much of that away, will it affect my creativity? I don't want to be the guy that's like, hey, there's a genocide happening, but that's okay, man, because I don't want to get stressed out about it. I didn't want to lose the anger that we should rightfully have in an unjust society and things like that. But listening to your latest album makes me realize that this transformation that you've had that's made you much happier and healthier has not affected your creativity at all. The new album fucking slams, man.
Speaker 2It comes back to starting with yourself. I was an angry, angry mother. And I thought, what you got to do with that anger is let people know, you know, this is what I think. And I was a socialist, you know, for all my life. When I believed there was a world that will eventually work together, I was a socialist. When I realized that's never going to fucking happen. Not only is it not going to happen, it's not important. One of the important things I learned is that if you can change it, change it. If you can't change it, fuck it. And for me, it was just like, yeah, but what about this? What about the fucking injustices? But I was fucking, I was stapling myself to the past, to my old self, to my old anger. The thing that people forget is in anger, in any extreme emotion, there's a comfort. And that's your ego pulling you back to where it knows the fucking, you know, the ground. It knows the parameters and stuff. It's a comfort. My anger was a comfort because it was just, I was like, fuck you all. I'm angry. The hard bit, the scary bit is getting involved in trying to, what about love? What about peace? What about actual peace? What about being, you know, a purveyor of love and peace? Well, as an angry punk rock motherfucker, that's the most scary thing in the fucking world. Well, I'm going to be soft. I'm not soft. You know, once you go through this process of getting rid of the anger, but keeping the passion, you know, and that passion doesn't go, that sense of injustice doesn't go. But what you find is you can't do anything apart from yell from the outside, unless you're in there, unless you're in the matrix, finding what it is that you can do. How can you help if you really want to help? You just want to throw stones at it. And I've found that, okay, realities, this is going to sound a bit fucking strange, but realities that, that, spiritualism is like that. Now, reality has a limitation. Spiritualism has no limitation.
Speaker 1Just for the clarity of the people listening, Ginger's moving his hands. For reality, he's moving him side to side to show like a linear direction. For spirituality, she's showing up and down to show like infinite depth, I suppose.
Speaker 2Now, in reality, if you've got no spiritualism, let's call it a circle. That's reality, a circle. And the edges, which is where I used to like living, the dark recesses, the fucking pissed off punk rockers and fucking angry motherfuckers live. It's a comfort. There's a comfort there. I'm backed up against this. I know where I am. I know, I know how to deal with this. Getting involved in that fucking splurge of fucking stuff. That's, I've got, I don't, I've got nothing. You know, I've got no safety. I've got no fucking weapons. I'm literally a virgin. I'm a baby. I'm going into there and I'm learning all the time. And it wasn't until I started, you know, living in the middle that I realized that the outsiders is what they want, is what the system wants. They want you to be driven to an extreme point of view, an extreme narrative. That's why you find people can't speak. They can't converse anymore. They tell you what they think and nobody's learning anything. No one's actually conversing. Again, it's comfortable. It's comfortable to be ignorant. Well, there is a comfort in ignorance. That's why you find that most people will be willfully ignorant. It doesn't matter what the cause is, whether it's gays, Muslims, trans, fucking whatever it is. I'm extreme and you can't change my mind. Well, there you go. You know, you're going to learn, fuck all, you're a spiritual bottom feeder. And that's where I found, that's where the power is. When you go from the edges into the real stuff. I mean, I, I, I deal is to get to the middle where you're in control of all the, the, the duplicity, the, the, the opposites. I want to be in control of my male and female. I want to be in control of my hate on my love. You know, the, the, I want that yin and yang thing. I want that Baphomet thing. I want to be completely divided and understand it in all of the extremes. Um, and you know, it takes a lot of bravery to, to escape from the comfort, that of your own fucking hatred and get into this. Well, what else am I, what the fuck am I? What is the complete me? And it ain't hatred. I'll tell you that for one. And it ain't just blind love and fucking, you know, love the earth and don't eat animals. Cause they're fucking full of shit. Most of them brigade, you know, any of these militant people that find something that they like, great. You find something that you like, but when they push it on other people, it's a fucking religion, whether it's veganism, whether it's alcohol. Ism, whether it's politics, whether it's fucking UFOs, which has now turned into its own fucking religion. Once you start pushing it on other people, it's a religion. You're a cult. Yeah. The fucking movies.
Speaker 1Amen, brother. A fucking man. I could listen to these rants all day, dude. Jesus Christ. No, I love it. Please don't apologize. I'm really glad that the conversation went in this direction and you're dropping some serious fucking wisdom here, man. This is really good information for everyone. Listen, I think it's going to be really helpful. So thank you. And I promise we'll get back to talking about the fantastic new Wild Hearts record really soon. But just one more point on this subject before we move on to that. You said that you used to be a socialist and I wanted to ask you how your politics now fits in with the way that you're living your life now in this spiritual dimension. Because we're living in crazy times, man. I mean, you know, you look at what's happening in Gaza and now Trump is back and fucking Elon Musk is now some political fucking visionary. And look at what Keir Starmer. Who's doing with the Labour Party. There's a lot to be fucking angry and pissed off about, man. So how does that fit in with your life now as a socialist or former socialist whilst not disturbing the spiritual peace and equilibrium that you found?
Speaker 2I nearly went mad when the Gaza thing started. It affected me to such a point. I was arguing with people. I fell out with my mother. You know, I mean, all these things are just. I'll. Inhibit my growth. I found for me anyway, the only way to deal with politics is to ignore it. Hardest thing in the world. Well, what if I ignore it? It's not going to go away. No, it isn't going to go away. Is there anything you can do about it? If there's nothing about it, if you've got no control over that situation, you have to ignore it. And again, it's a habit. It was a habit of mine to get to, you know, absorbed in politics. To affect. It was a habit of my, I had to break that habit and develop a new habit of like, fuck it, you can't change anything and since I started doing that, and I do believe there's a shift right now, but we can go into that later, but since I started doing that, ignoring what's going on with politics, it's went fucking in. I would be in a fucking a nut house in jail or the ground if I took all of this shit seriously. Hitler's being normalized. That's all you need to know. The swastika is now a conversation piece that, well, was Hitler wrong? You know, are the Jews evil? I mean, that's what people are talking about now. It's like I got out at the right fucking time because it was going to drive me mental. And for me, that's the only way I can deal with what's going on in the world. It's like if I've got no control over it, it's nothing to do with my personal story. I've got to focus on my personal story. I've got to focus on living in the moment. You live in the moment, that's all there is. you know, and I can't worry about the future of Palestine because the future is none of my business. I told myself the future is none of my business. I told myself the past is none of my business. The fact that the right wing are regurgitating all this fucking loathsome shit. It's the past. I've told myself it's none of my business. I've got to follow my own word. So I've found my way of stopping myself from being driven insane by politics is stop expecting the world to change. Stop expecting the picture to get better. It ain't getting better. This is the way it's going to go. And I personally think that there is a shift where the world of politics in the next two years is going to be so unrecognizable from what we know now and certainly what we expected going from the past and what the left wing meant and what socialism hoped for and what peace used to fucking hope to be. It ain't happening. Now, knowing that, knowing that it's all going to go to shit, it's almost like, OK, then, well, it's pointless getting involved in that. So I think this shift that's going to happen in the next two years, it's going to it's going to develop spiritually for people who are of that mentality or of that bent. The world of spirituality is going to change completely. And I think the shift is going to involve spiritual, the higher development. Spiritual development. And I think the spiritual bottom feeders, the people on the literally on the ground, you know, fueling these fires of discontent, they're going to suffer. There's something's going to happen where they're not going to benefit, not going to suffer. So I do believe that we're all the universe experience in itself. But some people are meant to experience things on a higher level and some people are meant to experience things on a lower, base level. That's how the universe experiences the duality, the opposites. Right. This is getting a little bit woo woo for a lot of people, but this shift, I believe, is coming now. We're already seeing it and spiritual people are already feeling it. But politically, you're looking at it in action. The rise of the right. We never thought this was going to fucking happen. And it's normalised now. It's not just like a fucking bunch of people. It's a bunch of them on the on the on the perimeters. It's a it's like I said, Kanye is talking about swastikas, you know, Hitler's in the fucking news. It's fucking crazy. It's it's madness. It's the fucking the mad people are taking over.
Speaker 1Let them. Yeah. Well, maybe things have to go for these revolutions. You know, I mean, maybe it needs to get to boiling point. There's an explosion of some kind and then things resettle and it starts again. Do you believe in that? Sort of idea?
Speaker 2I don't care because that's way in the future. And I honestly literally don't care about the future. Like, I literally don't care about the past. And I'm completely honest with myself. It's not in my interests. Not that I don't care. That's the wrong terminology, but it's not in my interests. My interests are to fix my. My interests are to stay alive. That's that's number one. Right. Until I get really good at that, there is no number two is just the fucking the operative is is is is that that's the only priority in my life is to fix myself.
Speaker 1Love it. Love it. That's such great wisdom, man. Well, I'm looking at the clock now. I can't keep you for too much longer. And I want to loop it back to music because there's so much stuff in what you just said. You've just covered so much stuff in the past 20 minutes. Honestly, I wouldn't expect the conversation to go into that area, but I'm really glad that it did, because like people could relisten to that because it's just so many different levels. What? You just. Talked about. So I'm going to leave that for people to dig into. I want to loop it back to talk about the music industry quickly before we bring it back to the album, because you've seen some seismic shifts in the music industry. You started, you know, back with this versus the Wild Hearts, you know, on a major label. You've done an independent label. You've done your own label. And throughout that whole time, the music industry changed with digital. Now it's streaming people buying as much music as they're used to anymore. But you're still here. You're still doing your thing. You're still kicking. You're still fucking. Fucking putting stuff out. So what are your thoughts on the music industry now at the change? Is it better? Is it worse? What are the pros and cons? How do you feel about the state of the music industry today?
Speaker 2Well, change is inevitable. You know, Bob Dylan started playing electric. I mean, change is is inevitable. And if you're going to, you know, fight for nostalgia or for the way that it used to be, you're over. You really are. Unless you can roll with the punches, you're over. I've always rolled with the punches, not always the most, you know, gallant and charismatic role. Sometimes I fell flat on my face with the punches, but I've always got up. I don't believe people remember you falling down. I remember people. I think people just remember you getting back up. The changes has been keeping myself excited. That's the only thing you can hope for as a musician is to keep yourself excited. So everything that I've ever done has been as a reaction to things going wrong. And now that I look at it and I'm still doing this and people are going like, oh, you're still here doing it. I'm like, no, I just didn't give up. I'm just too fucking stubborn to fuck off. That's my secret. So I always kept myself interested and excited about the next thing, whether it was starting up a new record company or writing a book or doing my thing. And again, it's just talking about myself personally as I've always done things that terrify me. So I said, you know, someone to write, how the fuck do you write a book? You know, so I'm going to write a book. You know, how the fuck do you do spoken word? 90 minutes talking. So I decided to do that because it's terrifying. Acoustic. I started playing acoustic because I used to see people by themselves on a stage to go fair play. I cannot do that. What am I talking about? I can't do that. I can do that. Learn to play drums so I don't have to always wait for a fucking. Drummer to be available because I'm a fucking busy motherfucker. Good drummers play drums so I can go in the studio and do it all myself. And I just taught myself all the stuff that I didn't know. And the difference between me and a lot of musicians that don't mind looking like a bit of an idiot. You know, when you start something brand new, even the podcast now and doing the first podcast and you're like literally nervous, like you used to feel before you went on stage. That's the feeling that I always try and keep in. My life. If I'm too complacent, if it doesn't scare me a little bit, I'm doing it wrong, whatever it is. So the only reason I've been able to maintain my presence is, is by always trying to do things that I haven't got a clue how to do and learning. And so the business is changing this and that people get too bogged down in the changes, you know, and what I like that in the past, I like tape. Yeah, I like tape. You know, I hated when things went digital, but it's fucking crazy. Crazy to think that you, you're not going to AI, for example, you know, it's crazy to think that you can fight AI. You know, you're just, you're just a crazy old person throwing rocks from the comfortable perimeters of fucking reality. So, yeah, I keep myself young by keeping myself excited.
Speaker 1Oh, I love that, man. Beautiful. And I was going to ask you about AI, actually, but I mean, I think I've kind of got a feel for your philosophy on this, which is probably going to be something along the lines of, well, it's in the future and I can't do anything about it. So, fuck it, am I right? Exactly.
Speaker 2I used to be of the disposition of AI, it will never take over because it has no consciousness, it has no awareness. Right. Our consciousness doesn't come from us. It comes from something else. If it wants to put consciousness into AI, it fucking will. It doesn't matter what we think is going to fucking happen. You know, the future is going to be the future. None of us know what the fuck it is. So, to get involved in that is crazy. So, I think it's crazy. Yeah. I think it's crazy. I think it's crazy. Yeah. I think it's crazy. I think it's crazy. I think it's crazy. I think it's crazy. I think it's crazy. I think it's crazy. Yeah. I think it's crazy. Yeah. So, to get involved in that is crazy. So, you know, right now, you know, AI is looking like it's going to do well, and it is a new shift, it is a new paradigm, got to embrace it, but don't focus on it, it's none of your business. It's the fucking future. Fuck the future.
Speaker 1Love it. Fuck the future. Well, we got to talk about the future, unfortunately, after that perfect ender to a beautiful rant, because I want to ask you. What the future is holding for yourself and the Wild Hearts, you know, the new record's coming out in a matter of weeks. You've got a badass tour, which I'm going to mention as well, coming up. What's the rest of the year looking like and beyond? Are there any plans, or you're just fucking on the train and see where it stops?
Speaker 2Well, now, see, I've got to rein myself in, because I get these glimpses of how things are going to go in the future, and, you know, being an obsessive, I can kind of, oh, I like that, we'll think about that for a while, and I've got to ground myself into the fucking moment. But the immediate future is March, spring arrives, the album comes out, and the tour starts, and that's enough to be excited about. So I've got myself, you know, in good shape for the tour, you know, mental and physical. There's some really fun stuff going to happen that we're still trying to figure out how we're going to do, but it's going to be a great show, and, you know, I know people are uncomfortable with change. And, you know, bands changing makes people uncomfortable. So my job now is to show people, it's okay, we've got this, don't worry about it, you know? Do you like the song? songs that's really the only thing that you need to fucking get into at the moment and if you if you won't listen to the music because it's a different lineup then we're going to lose you it happens you lose people along the way um so the fear the near future i'm really except march i'm fucking couldn't be more excited about anything i've been waiting for this for a long time i've been sitting on this album for a very long time okay in april we go in to do uh to start writing and arranging mainly arranging and demoing the next album oh wow and i've got the next album pretty much formulated in my head what it's going to be how it's going to be and how it's going to be perceived and how we're going to approach it um but again that's just because i'm living in the moment i'm getting little signs instead of anxiety about the future i'm getting little signs now i don't believe that time is linear i believe that it's it's all squished together we think it's linear because we're trapped in a 3d diamond a 3d world but you know if the fourth dimension as we can't prove it but we can theorize that it does exist if there's a fourth dimension there's fucking loads of them but in the fourth dimension there is no time's not linear i don't believe in time and space as being fundamentals i believe that consciousness is a fundamental in which case we're not limited by time and space um so yeah i get these little glimpses of how things are going i've had that my whole life i used to imagine a dog's face my whole life i've imagined a dog's face and it's a border collie with little bits of brown in there i swear this is the truth and now she's in my life and she saved my life so much um i've got a great one i thought of this the other day fucking this is fun when i was little about four years old i used to get out my body and float around the house out of body experience a lot of people would experience this um and i could you know i could feel the carpet on the stairs on my chest so i still still felt like i had a physical form to my four-year-old mind it was me floating around um and i used to float around the house and and i remember that i've described i've got a shit memory and i've described the house perfectly to my mom who's like fucking yeah that's you know fucking um but yeah yeah we used to have a old stereograph a stereogram the big where your stereo was in a big box on legs and i used to go in and out of the legs thinking this is great i'm me but i'm small enough to get in and out of these things right we had a fireplace with a huge mirror on the top of the fireplace and i thought i was in the kitchen and i went hey i wonder what it would be like if i went and looked at myself in the mirror and i went and looked myself in the mirror and i was this fucking hard to describe but like a a white fiery humanoid thing with with my face but it wasn't my face it seemed like an older face and i just thought i went through my life wondering what this is it might be aliens you know it might have been some kind of a ghost fuck knows and i had this glimpse the other day it just went boom that was you from the future that was you from the future telling you it's going to be okay telling you there's something else you don't need to worry about about you know what's going on um which is what the song uh blooming over brinkburn is about i had a very very very violent uh childhood very upsetting and this gave me something to cling on to a little bit of hope um and and blooming of a brinkburn is about those times in your life where you just think this is it this is forever what this is is it it's you know once you start realizing that time isn't linear it doesn't matter what happens it's not it's temporary the good or the bad it's fucking temporary and everything is temporary and this was me letting myself know i might have been i might have been asleep dreaming but it might have been me from the future going it's okay everything's okay you've just got to hang about till the punchline and that's what i've always that's what i follow now stick around for the punchline because there will be a punchline this is just a very fucking nuanced joke the punchline's coming at some point so stick around for it fucking beautiful that is fucking beautiful amen man
Speaker 1honestly you were dropping some fucking truth bombs on this and i'm really really glad that you you've you've gone into these areas with us man rather than just talking about rock and roll because this is seriously useful uh stuff and inspirational as well so thank you man it's like you've verbalized somebody's concept so well and so like concisely and simply put that it makes a lot of sense which i know is going to really help and inspire a lot of people listening as well so we appreciate you for doing that man thank you bro and i'm so glad to hear that you're doing so well in yourself and physically as well and you know the fucking the music is still flowing and the new album rocks so couldn't be happier to see all of that stuff man so thank you so much we've got to give a plug thank you thank you no man not at all thank you james this was this was fun it was a lot of fun thank you no but thank you bro we we gotta we gotta plug the uh we gotta do the promo shit we gotta tick that box as well keep the pr companies happy um so the new album uh let me get my notes here satanic rights of the wild hearts is coming out march the 7th it is available to pre-order everywhere now but if you go to the wild hearts.com you can grab a super sexy colored vinyl cd and cassette versions as well of the album as well as exclusive t-shirts so go and get a bundle at the site now um please do follow ginger on his personal instagram at ginger wild heart and you also mentioned that you're now doing a podcast over on patreon which people should definitely support which is patreon.com slash ginger wild heart get over there get involved pre-order the new album and they are touring all over the fucking place kicking off on march the 7th also stopping in sheffield cambridge manchester glasgow southampton all over the fucking place so get your tickets at wild hearts.com get to a show you will not be disappointed the new album fucking rocks and i'm ginger thank you so much for stopping by and chatting with this man like i said you're an inspiration you're a dude you got a lot of love out there and i'm glad to see you doing better than ever bro and i will see you at one of the shows man thank you it was an honor thank you thank you mate well best wishes i'll see you soon best of luck with the album see you man bye-bye ginger fucking wild heart man jesus christ i did not see the conversation going down that fucking direction i mean i'm gonna have to go back and listen to that again myself because obviously you know trying to be the host of this thing and and keep it going in a certain direction keep an eye on the clock and all that sort of stuff and making sure i plug the album you know before he's got to go and you know it's kind of like semi-absorbed and i'm not sure if i'm going to be able to do it again but i'm going to do it again all being it but i mean there's so much kind of content in what he was saying there about mental health recovery spirituality the fucking universe the nature of time and space and consciousness i mean fuck i was caught off guard there man jesus christ i thought we're going to be talking about fucking guitars so i'm glad that the conversation went that way because ginger is a man who's lived a lot of life he's had a lot of very dark lows he's scaled some very high heights and he's had almost a lifelong battle with various demons and vices which he's always been very open about so i think it's really really useful and interesting and inspiring to hear what he's got to say about the things that work for him and how he's now living his life at the age of 60 better than ever fitter mentally emotionally physically everything better than ever i mean that's just an inspiration and an example to any of us that are struggling with anything right now you know that change is possible and he's mapped out many of the ways that have worked for him and i respect that so i'm really glad that the conversation went where it did even if i was kind of flailing about very much unprepared but that's the nature of this podcast man you know what i mean it's an honest open conversation it goes where it goes no script no agenda no advertising no brand or marketing fucking bullshit to have to adhere to and as a result sometimes you get very fucking pleasantly surprised by where the conversation ends up going so i hope you enjoyed that as much as i did and i'll see you in the next one as much as i did and as much as i'm going to when i go and re-listen to that bad boy another 10 times so that i can actually fucking keep up with everything that ginger was just dropping then i got so much fucking respect for that guy man you know as a musician and as a songwriter and as an artist myself you know i remember stealing the first wild hearts album from the local wh smiths you know when i was in college and just having my fucking mind blown and he's still doing it now all these decades later he's still knocking out fucking albums left right in the center he's never gotten soft and he's still doing it now all these decades later he's still knocking out these never run dry of ideas the new album is testament to that the songs are fucking amazing the energy the riffs the inspiration the creativity is all there as fresh and as exciting and as energetic and as powerful as it was 20 fucking years ago so i'm a fan and i respect the dude and i'm really really fucking happy that he is out of the place that he was in and living his fucking best life happier than ever and continuing to give us all the good stuff with no sign of stopping at any point which is you know fucking music to all of our ears literally so i hope you enjoyed the conversation we'll be back next time with another one i don't know who it's gonna be yet might be politics might be rock and roll hey you know i might fucking continue going down this kind of universal energy and consciousness trip and see who else i can get on to talk about it if there's anyone you particularly would like me to chat to in this kind of open freewheeling format then you know let me know i'm on blue sky at james kennedy and instagram at james kennedy you okay i don't use twitter or x anymore and neither should you it is toxic awful nasty propagandist fucking spam ridden click farm haven of lies misinformation division hate and is a dangerous dangerous fucking place that i want nothing further to do with which is a shame because it's where my biggest audience is nearly 300 000 people follow me on x and i refuse to fucking use the place anymore so if you want to stay in touch what's happening with the podcast and myself generally with the band james kennedy and the underdogs and my new book loud medicine which is coming out soon then head over to blue sky james kennedy instagram james kennedy uk or facebook as well you can help me on there before i let you guys go please subscribe to the podcast give it a follow give it a fucking subscribe give it a thumbs up whatever you gotta do it really really helps and i will see you next week until the next time have an awesome one take care of yourselves take care of each other love you loads fight the power
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