#690 - Josh Brolin

I want to say that my new special I'm doing fine is out October 20th on Netflix. So thank you guys so much for your support, and I'm excited about it, and I hope that you'll give it a shot. And I also want to let you know that we've got a full restock on your favorite merch over at TheovonStore.com. We loaded up on the Be Good to Yourself scribble tees and a new rat con drop so you can check that out. Again, it's TheovonStore.com if there's something there that you choose to get. And yeah, just amen, man. Thank you guys. He's a legendary actor known for movies like No Country for Old Men, Dune, Sakario. The list goes on. Goonies. His new film Whalefall is in theaters this week. A wonderful time catching up with the Sido rat himself, Mr. Josh Brolin. And I don't want to find out what's behind door number two with my Tyson. You'll say you take what he gives you. So. Hey, man. Thanks for having me on your show. Do you thank you for being here, man? Seriously, it's nice to see you. You too, bro. It's a pleasure, bro. It's, um, yeah, it's up, and I don't even know if I can say this, and I can take this part out. It's nice to talk to another alcoholist. Totally. Is that okay to say? Yeah. I think everybody knows it by now. Okay. I don't know if everybody knows it with you. They definitely know it with me. I don't really talk about AA, but I talk about sobriety a lot. Okay. Yeah. And that, are you sure that's okay if I said that? Fuck yeah. Okay. Because God do. Yeah. Sometimes, it's a gay use. If you see somebody else's, you know, I don't know. It just feels like something's a little different. Yeah. There is. And you're out there now. You know, it's funny. I was thinking I'll tell you the story really quick. Celcius, I guess you as your company or not your company, but you're sponsored by him or whatever. Liquid death. Yeah. So liquid death, I have like a little tiny stake in or whatever. And the whole reason why liquid deaths did so well, because if you look at the cans, they look like forties. Yeah. Right. And people are drinking less and less. Like whether they're getting sober or not is kind of beside the point, but they're drinking kids are drinking less and less. So they go to these concerts and they'd have these cans and the kids started drinking these cans that are full of water. And it made them feel like they weren't ousted that they weren't going to be judged because they weren't drinking because they had a can in their hand that look like they were having a beer. Oh, yeah. You're still in the group. When that metal hits your lips. Seriously, man, right? Yeah. There's a little bit of, you hear that. It's great. Yeah. You almost like, and even as a sober guy, like I'm cool with that. I like that sound. I want that sound to continue with in my life. I just don't want the fucking drunk with it. Right. Oh, dude. Sometimes I would lay in bed and just open cans of that over and over again out of like seven cans. After you got sober. Yeah. That just is remembrance. Remembrance of things past. What'd you do tonight? Yeah. It's nice to be sober, man. And it's nice to know a sober body. And there's something else we saw each other outside and we didn't talk. But I think that was the first thing that popped in both of our moments. Yeah. And it's cool. It kind of like, it gives me a little bit of an exhale because honestly, dude, it just feels like so much less pressure for some reason. Yeah. That's cool. You know, I like that. Yeah. I like that too, man. So thank you so much for being here, dude. Yeah, man. It's a pleasure to see what I would look like if I were a little handsomer or a little norlier, little more angry, a little more angry, but you're not. You just, you have. I don't know. You look very welcoming, man. You're a very welcoming face. Oh, thank you, dude. You are, man. I appreciate you saying that, dude. Um, Ceto rats that I'm reading your hat. That's your company. No, that's a group that I grew up with. If you want to get heavy for a second. Yeah, let's get it. Dude, I got my red on my sweatshirt. You got, is that a rat? Oh, wait, what is that? Because they call me the rat king. Wait, get the fuck out of here. Seriously? So you made that? Yeah, this is part of our market. So I made this. I just took over the, what is it? The trademark for this? Oh, you did Ceto rats. So the guys that I grew up with called themselves the Ceto rats because they were in Monocito and Monocito now is perceived like fucking Oprah Haven or something, which is fine. So fancy now fancy. Yeah, there's a nucleus of like a lot of money and especially actors or industry people, but the group that I grew up with, um, 36 out of 50 are dead from shit that we were just talking about. Really? So and then my body would always talk about, Hey, man, you remember that place that we were this and I had a needle hanging out of my neck. And do you remember on the corner of our Americanian and all this stuff? And I said, I'm so sick of hearing those stories that I'm going to spearhead this whole thing. So I've brought the whole thing back as a like survived and updated, like new and improved. And that's the, that's the idea of the brand and also of the humans. Yes, survived and updated survived an update. Amen, bro. So yeah. So if you look up Ceto rats, you can kind of get because like, I don't know if you ever saw Brawboys in Maruba, like there was a group of surfers there, Brawboys and they did a documentary on it. You can watch that. There's Duhui in Hawaii. There was Wolfpack in Kala, there were Ceto rats, kind of like skaters. Skaters would have what, who were the guys down south was, you know, Tony Alva and all those guys, Z-boys down in Z-boys, then you had Ed Men and like Sacramento and you had different, like that was the skater. We were the surfer version of that. The Ceto rats. Yeah, because like, Dogtown and Z-boys, those guys, it wasn't like Jay Adams was severe. He was the only guy who was here. Jay Adams, can you help me out Nick a little bit? Yeah, there you go. Hit that picture. Yeah. Let's go. He was, he was a Dogtown guy, but he was the only one of that Dogtown group that was like that. Got it. Whereas, if you look at Ed Men and Sacramento, I don't know if you want to bring up Ed Men, but Ed Men and Sacramento, everybody was like that. So the surf groups, they were all like that. Ceto rats were all like that. Got it. So he was a real one. He was a real one. Amen, bro. He was a real one. R.F.E.J. Adams, dude. Bring up Ceto rats and see what comes up. The Montecito. Yeah, dude, the rats. Well, it's funny. You talk about rats that they were surfers because here's one of the reasons why I correlate with rats. For one, rats can swim for up to three days. They can tread water for up to three days, dude. So that is a survive. Like that thing. That's a bad ass motherfucker. Dude, that is a bad ass. That's a bad ass. Imagine you go out on a fishing trip with your buddies with your rich friends. Everybody's drowned around. You still got the rats sitting there like I'm good, man. I'm good. I got another two days in me. Yeah, yeah. So that's pretty cool. And rats have whiskers that are extremely sensitive. That's how they pick up a lot of information. I'm super sensitive. So it's like that's a correlation for me. And this is one of my favorites. Rats, they don't vomit. They won't vomit. So that's why they're able to live in the shit. That's why they're able to live in the muck and have it just like the worst in the worst spaces. Because they don't vomit. Yeah, it's like it doesn't get to them. It doesn't like it doesn't affect them. They're all factory senses and stuff. So they're able to stay in there. So there's something that's like, I don't know, like even in like the just like a cockroach, like super resilient. Yeah, yeah, but a upscale. But yeah, like shuddy. Like a rat is an upscaled cockroach. That's wild with whiskers. The whiskers being sensitive. And you called yourself super sensitive, like an empath. Is that what they call it? I don't know. I don't know what I don't know what an empath is either. A person who experiences the emotions, energy and physical feelings of other people as if they were their own. I think sometimes I'm like that. I think honestly, I didn't develop and I never thought about this. Sometimes I didn't really develop my own sense of feelings when I was growing up. And so sometimes I think you almost take those, you take moments off of other people's lives and existences. And that's why sometimes they feel like a lot. Yeah. Does that make sense at all? No, it does make sense. And then this is not like a ploy to try to talk about. But I wrote a book a year and a half ago. And it had to do, you know, like kind of anecdotal paintings of how I grew up. And my mom was a wildlife activist. So we had wolves in our house. We had mountain lions. We had in your house? In and out of our house. Like my brother had 60 stitches in his leg at six years old from the wolf. And my mom definitely prioritized those animals more than us. So the point is is that emotions and all that weren't, it's not that they weren't allowed. It's just there was so, but there was such a high level of chaos that you just didn't, you know, what were you going to do? Like go in a corner and like cry or like talk to your parents about like how you were scared, you were going to be eaten. Like it just wasn't, it just, that wasn't part of the deal. So yeah. Sometimes I think when you have to be so alert, like you're saying there's chaos, we have to be so alert. It's hard for some of those other things I feel like I'm not having self pity. I'm just thinking I think it's hard for some of that other world to develop inside of you because you're just on a, you know, you're just like, you're like somebody who's got to do night watch day and night. - Seriously, and don't you think? I mean, like, to just bring it full circle, that's why we drank. I mean, what would you like when you drank? 'Cause when I drank, it was like, it was the bad, it was like, God-feeling. It was like, I don't have to think at all now. I can do whatever I want, and I don't have that little voice and they're going, oh, you're a piece of shit, or you can't do that. You're not good enough, or you're not, like, all that went away, except, you know, my version of it was, there was no limit. There was no ceiling. What would you like when you were drunk? - When I drank, I was like, somebody that was going to get cocaine. (laughing) - Hello, how you said that dead pay? - Oh, to be honest with you. - Seriously? - Oh, yeah, I'm not even joking. - Oh, no. - When I drank, it was like, I just like, I think I just drank just because I, like, I didn't love drinking that much. - Me neither. - It was hard, really? - No. - It was hard for me to even realize I wasn't alcoholic, because I didn't, my friends were shocked. Like, you're an alcoholic? You're like, you're like, you're like a weirdo, but you're not an alcoholic, right? - You got a lot of other shit that I would worry about before that. - But no, I think it made me go, like, 'cause cocaine, I think it made me be able to feel immediately how, and I could feel immediately some way. And I don't, there was something about that. Like, I'm gonna control how I feel right now, and it wasn't even the best feeling. I think it was a scared feeling, but I think deep on the other sides of me, there was a lot of scared feelings. And for some reason, it was like two bookends. - Yeah. - And finally, there was something like, I don't even know, but sometimes I theorized little things. - So is that with alcohol or cocaine? - That was with cocaine. It was just like, I'd have, the only reason I wanted to drink was because then I could have an excuse to go to, - To go do coke. - To get to cocaine. - Oh, why are you drinking and suddenly it wasn't, like, wasn't even a choice. You had to go get coke. - Right. - Or it was like, yeah. - Immediate thing. - Oh, I'd see a child riding by on a bike, and I'm like, oh, I should get some coke. I could look at a counter. I'm like, oh, Easter's in four months. I'll grab a bag. - The coke, the coke brought me down. - Dude, cocaine helped me quit vaping. - We won't wear. - It just, I think it's something. - It took the place of everything else that any other bike you may have had. - I think. - It was all vices in one. - Well, sometimes a cocaine hangover, it would be a couple days, and I didn't want to do anything else to damage myself during that time, so it'd give me enough time away from nicotine. - Yeah. - Anyway. - Anyway. - I won't bring it up again. - No, it's okay. It's interesting to talk about. You know what it is nice? It's fun to laugh about. - Totally. - Because it takes the air out of whatever part of me that wants to behave that way. - Yeah. - It makes it fun, and it makes it like, I don't know, for a second, you have some community, and that's all I ever really wanted. - I think it's more fun. - It is more fun. - I honestly think it's fun. - I don't say that just to say it, because I think other people want to hear it, I actually think it's more fun, and I had a fucking blast when I was using it, and I have more fun now. - Yeah. - Let's go! - More fun. - I do. - Oh, dude, I believe you had it so much fun, dude. If I fucking, dude, I was doing it, and I was pretty ugly looking. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're fine. - What are you talking about? - Why do you keep saying that? - I mean, I did it, and I looked like me, right? If I looked like you, I would have been definitely out of heart, you know. (laughing) - Dude, I had to have a couple drinks to think I looked like you. (laughing) - But let's rewind it, man. - Okay, go ahead. - Let's do it in back in a little bit. Dude, so what do you mean, your brother got attacked by a wolf? - Yeah. - And you guys were just like, was it like a regular night, or was it like, like, what do you mean? - So we lived in pastures, we lived on a ranch. We lived on a ranch. - And so robeless? - Yeah. - Okay. - North of here. And we lived on a 230 acre ranch. - Oh, wow. - My mom was from Texas. My mom was from Corpus Christi, Texas. Five foot three. Super loud. Like the voice of a six foot eight, man. - Yeah. - And yeah. And she was just animals were her thing. Like from when she was a kid. So she became an animal activist. She started working with fishing game and all that. And then she would take animals away from people who had illegally taken them out of the wild, have them jailed. And she would nurse them back to health. And if they'd been defanged or de-clawed or something like that, she'd find the most habitable zoo. And then put them there. She didn't like those little cage zoos and all that. But we would, so the transitional time would be in our place. So we had, you know, a lion. We had a bear at one point. We had a chimpanzee for a long time. - Oh, really? What was his name? - Reggie. - Reggie. Reggie, Reggie. There's a story of Reggie, where Reggie used to watch Arnold Schwarzenegger movies with my mom. And you know, Arnold would hold the gun here, right? And that was like a, I think. - We were going-- - Slime used to do that, too. - Yeah, that was a big thing at that time. - That was a big thing. Like in the eight, was it the eighties? - In the eighties? - In the eighties. - Yeah, exactly. Big bullets. And then there was a guy who came over and Reggie was in his cage. He wasn't in the house. My mom left somewhere. Reggie was in his cage. A guy came over to fix a chicken coop. Reggie, like, finagled or McIver, his way out of the cage. Came over everybody where I'm from has a gun, right? In their truck, right on the window in a rack. So he grabbed the gun, fucking put one because he had seen it obviously in a movie, put one in the chamber. In the guy-- - Reggie did? - Reggie did. - Paul Taylor. - And then suddenly the guy fixing the chicken coop here's, and he goes, what the fuck is that? And he's laying down and he looks past the chicken coop. And there's Reggie holding the gun at wayside. Yeah. Reggie was a real one. - He was a real one. He was the masculine energy. - Oh, and that's you and him and where's Paul and Reggie, right there. - That's you and him and dressing up for Halloween right there, boy. And that's really him. - Yeah, that's him. - Wow. - Why'd you find that picture, dude? That was just on the internet. That's crazy. - Boat de Gauss was a nice man. - Dude, that was me. My worst. - Was it? - Yeah. When I look at that, I was a wacky town. Look at that. What is that that I have on my face? Do I shave the top from the nose like partway down? (laughing) - Something's up. - It's very, it's very like, I'm gonna be the best looking guy who's gonna cross the Atlantic in the like, it looks like 20s. Don't I look like, not in my 20s, like 1920s. Like John Fonte. - I'm seeing maybe one of the outsiders. - No, really? - It's somewhat, but I'm also seeing very spice trader, like aggressive, rather of a successful spice trader. - Always an aggressive brother. - And you finally show up with the frickin' coriander that no one's ever heard of. (laughing) - That's good. - And you've got the market coriander. - That's it. - That's very good. - It was a good, it was, it's not bad. - You'd be as supportive. - Yeah, not bad, I'll agree with. Did it feel, was your mom like, was it easier for her to care about animals, do you think, or something? - For sure, you're the first person that's ever asked that. For sure. But the human thing wasn't, didn't work for her, and she was a big drinker. So when she would drink, that was her ability to kind of like, you know, my mom didn't just say hi, how you doing? She grabbed you by the lapels and pulled you across the table and planted one on your mouth. That's how she'd say hello. And it was usually from like a, you know, a 380 pound cowboy. - Wow. - You know, there's a thing in my book where I said, oh, dude, beyond, beyond. And I miss her, and she's not around anymore, she. But she, yeah, there's a thing in my book where she says, and I know this is not cool to say now, she saw this cowboy, and he had a comb in his back pocket, and she's yells out, it was about eight years old, and she yells out, hey, she has this voice, and she goes, why do you have that comb in your pocket? He turned around and he said, I'm sorry, man, and she said that comb, it looks f***ing. I'm like, why? Like what's the f***ing point? What's the end goal here? - Yeah, and then 15 minutes later, you have 10 guys buying my mom drinks. - Ah. - Always pulled it off somehow. She knew a bunch of truckers, and if somebody flipped her off on the road, she'd call truckers on the CB, and they'd box him in. I brought, that happened many times with me in the car. Like I remember, you're like, breaker one nine, this is cat woman. I got another flipper. Yes, okay, Jane, we got you, and the guys would come out of f***ing nowhere. There was no 18-wheelers anywhere, and then suddenly box a guy in, one guy would leave, they'd push him off the side of the road, and then thank you guys, I appreciate it, love you. - Oh my God, dude. - She was great. She was great, she was severe, but she was great. - That's a cool word to use, that's interesting. - And severe is an interesting word to use. - So when you grow up in that, not as a victim, 'cause you said that earlier, you know, not to victimize yourself. You go, that's what it was, and I accept it fully for what it was. I like it because it colored my life later in a way, once I've figured out a way to kind of regulate the whole thing. - Yeah. - But without figuring it out, then you're just spinning. Well, then you're just f***ing going. You're like, I don't know what's going to happen from Tuesday to Wednesday to Thursday, but here we go. - Yeah, dude, it feels law. Well, that's part of the unmanageability they say. It's fun until it's not-- - It's not. - Yeah. - That's it. - It's fun until it's not. - Yeah, dude. - And then you try to get that fun back, and then that's when it gets really f***ing crazy. - Yeah. - Then you're like, I know I can figure this out. I know it. I can't f***in' know it. - Yeah, I can do this. - Start working out like Neil deGrasse Tyson, like, you know, geometry. in your head, trigonometry, astrophysics. - He'd drawn shit on the walls. - I know I can drink, I can fuck and figure it out. - You're carrying the one, you're fuck, yeah. You're using a calculator when you move out the bar, like, one of those big ones, that's all the symbols, you know. - Yeah, T-Mobile sidekick or something. Yeah, I went through a spell where I was having a tough time and then I was so thankful to get back on track, man. - Yeah, man. - It can get scary out there. - It can get scary and then, you know, we said, again, we tried to drop this subject, but it's like, you look back and you go, like, I see guys that are going through it right now and then you'll see them, like, you know, they get, you know, a month or maybe a couple of weeks and they go back out and they try it and they lose their wives and they lose everything and they can't see their kids anymore because of two days out, three days out, 'cause I had to go get five hookers. Like, what is it about alcohol? It makes you want to go get five hookers. I don't know, but whatever's going on in that person's mind that's a hidden little jam in there that nobody knows about gets unleashed. - Yeah. - And then you go, yeah, that's not gonna, that's gonna happen every time, yeah. No matter what, when you eat strawberries, you will break out. - Yeah, yeah. - It's gonna happen. No, but if I just eat the right strawberry, nope. Yeah, but if I just have the strawberry, sure can. - Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. That's right. - Um, where the Cedar Rascals, was there partying in it? Was that just sort of a surfing club? Like, well, no, no, no. Like, was it a gang? - It wasn't a gang. - Okay. - It was definitely not a gang. It was a group of guys. That's what, I mean, didn't you have a group of guys growing up? - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, well, that's it. That's what it was. - Got it. - It was just a community, especially in the 80s, when you had parents that, you know, were kind, how did I put it in my book? They were more interested in the sound of their ice than they were about necessarily parenting. You know, they all had their drinks and their cocaine and their deaths and their parties and all that kind of stuff. So we relied on each other and it was a great reliance. It was amazing, but it was the beginning of punk rock. So the guys that my best friend growing up, Jason Sears, had a band called Rich Kids on LSD, R.K.L., and that became a big band. - Rich Kids on LSD. - On LSD, and they've influenced, like, I talked to Eddie, better about it. I said, no, fucking way, you know, Jason Sears. We were hugely influenced by that. I mean, there's a ton of bands that were influenced. And this is like the greatest band that never got the notoriety that any of these other bands got. But like Jason was my best friend. - Oh, wow. - So all those guys, whether it was punk rock and whether it was surfing or though it was the beach and it was a group of guys that you could rely on that were a fucking great group of guys. I mean, great, dude. Talk about colorful. So you're going colorful from that, but then she's busy now. And we got color this. And if you look at DeHoe here, like Brawboys, like I said, but then it starts to self-destruct. Then it starts to not work anymore. Super fun for a while. Then we started not going to school and then you get in, but you know, the hair went and it came in in the '90s, and suddenly these guys just started dying, left and right, you know. Some of your friends up there. - Most of 'em. - Wow. - There's a couple of guys that like when I talk about this, they're like, you know, we're all not dead, dude. By the way, we all didn't die. Some of us are still okay. Chris rest. - Some of us are still treading water over there. - Yeah. - The rats, baby. - Exactly, the rat, that's it. I love that you said that. - I love that you said that. - Well, they're fascinating, man. They're fascinating animals. I mean, they're, and they're kind of, I don't know if it's reviled as the word, but they're like, I don't know. They're always kind of looked down upon, or looked at like-- - Rats are? - Yeah, or looked at like this outsider thing, you know? - I'm gonna look for this picture for a second. - And they feel, yeah, a rat, it's like, they're skinned. It's like, they crawl and they're skin crawls, you know? It's like a, it's like-- - Yeah, but why is it always like, Cito rats obviously has some connotation where it's like, this is the, this is the shit of the shit. - Yeah. - But it's Cito rats sounds punk, though, it sounds-- - It sounds good. - It sounds dope, yeah. - It does sound great. - I agree, it's great. And so now it's an actual, it's a brand. - Those guys are still, I mean, the guys are still around, like everybody's older now, everybody's in their late fifties and early sixties. And, but then you, it was purely out of reaction of being sick of hearing the stories, you know? It's like, you're like, okay, these guys are sober now. People have gotten sober, it's good. There's still Cito rats, it's still scrappy, it's still punk. But it's just not itself destructive as it was. But I went to a wedding recently, I officiated a wedding for a friend of mine, whose dad was a mace a rat, which was up the hill. And old gang member, gnarly guy, like Santa Barbara was way gnarlier than anybody could have imagined, right? Back then, you know, you can't imagine it now. - Yeah, no, you can't. - Ever. And so I was, and this girl came up to me, and it was like, I've seen enough for covering now, where I'm not used to it anymore. And this girl came up to me. She's like, "Hey, man, I knew Damon, dude." And I was like, "Oh, fuck, who's that?" She was like, "Hey, man, like, do you remember?" Like, we were 15, bro. And I think you touched my kids at some point. And I was like, "Oh, fuck. This is why I don't want to talk about it anymore." This kid was super gnarly, and she kept talking about, one of my best friends was found on the bathroom. He died. He had OD and died. And she was like, "Damn, man, what the fuck? Can you believe it, man?" (laughing) - But it was scary, and the smell of vodka, bro. The smell of whatever it was that she was having. But that's what I wanted to try and shift. - Yeah, kind of refurbish it. - Refurbish it, perfect word. - 'Cause it also deserves a bit of refining because at a certain point, something's tough and rugged and has its period like that. But at a certain point, it's put in so much work to be that that it almost deserves someone to come along. I don't want to say like a jeweler of sorts, but an appreciator can come along and say, "You know what, this deserves to kind of be." Refurbish it in just enough of a way where it can be revered. - We liked the foundation. We respect the foundation. It's like, we bought a house in Santa Barbara. It was Joe Walsh's old house. Joe Walsh from freaking, it's all mysteries? - No, no, no, dude, what? - Who am I thinking of? - Joe Walsh from The Eagles. - You're thinking of the guy, who is he thinking of? Yeah, that's Joe Walsh. - Oh, yeah, Joe Walsh. - Joe Walsh, one of the greatest guitarists of all time. And we didn't change that house at all. - Don't be John Walsh. - No, you're thinking of John Walsh. I remember him. What was the show that he had? "America's Most Wanted." That was it. "America's Most Wanted." I used to watch that show. - Oh, it was a good show. - That was a good show. - You bought Joe Walsh's old house? - Old house and it was so ratty and fucked up and it didn't have a foundation and half of it and all that. But we didn't change anything. We just updated it. - Nice. - And it's like ranchy and cool and bitching-looking. There's rocks all over the place. Same concept. - Yeah. - Same concept because you just could see, I don't want to be defined in one way. I don't want to be like, "I am Amasito Rat, you know, fuck you." - You throw a rocket at your head. That's what we do. - You're like, "That's just dumb. You're 60, bro." We were throwing rocks at people's head. So even like, I know you had Neil deGrasse Tyson on and I did Colbert's penultimate show and Colbert and I became super close. - Is he any guy? - He is the coolest, like literally I get emotional talking about. He is the coolest, most caring mother fucker I know. - Wow. - Like amazing, an amazing human being. - I'd like to meet him. - He's really cool, man. You should have him on the show now that he's got nothing to do. - Oh, did he lose his job? - Well, no, yeah, you're fired. - Oh. - That was it, they canceled the show. That's why I said penultimate show. The show before his last show. - Oh, the penultimate. - Penultimate show. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Say just say the show before the last one. - Okay, you look. - I just saw that shaming look. - I'm like, why do you got to do that to me? On my own fucking show, dude. - Bitch. - No, dude, we fucking. They knew when you said it, I didn't know. - They knew when you said it, I didn't know. - You should put it up on the thing. That's what you should have done. It's put it up on the record. - We do Vocabular at the end of the year. We do a big Vocabular. - Do you really? - Do you really? - We're gonna start this year. We're nine years late on it. Penultimate means second to last or immediately proceeding the final one in a series or sequence. - Perfectly used. - The penultimate. - Perfectly placed. - Very well. - Penultimate. - That's good stuff. As you guys know, MoonPay is my go-to place to buy crypto. And now they just launched something new called MoonPay Agents. 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That was your education. That was like, I'm doing my job as a parent. The fucking apartment was sinking. Someone had stolen our balcony again. Everything was just a fucking nightmare. You wouldn't even go to sleep at night because you were too busy crying and fucking awful. It was awful. It was. It was. It was, right? It was. You were either wetting the better crying, but there was always some liquid that was leaving your body because it didn't want to be involved anymore. It wanted out. It wanted out of the prison. It's like, you have to stay. I don't want the fucker. Yeah, people stole our balcony look. We talk about this a lot, but there it is. People would. Holy shit. People would steal our balcony. No, but did somebody come in and actually steal like pull off your balcony? Yeah, they did. What are you freaking mean? That's what I mean. No, I know, but I thought maybe we were putting a new one. No, no, no. And then you made it look like somebody stole it. Somebody actually came in and stole your balcony. Yeah, many times, dude. And so it was just. Many times? Yeah, because people would steal the wood and use it for stuff down the street. So you'd have to fucking then pull up and somebody one time built a fucking baby crib out of it. And that's the worst. You're like, we want it back in the fucking baby. You can't steal it from the baby now. Did you actually see a baby crib made out of your wood knowing it was your wood? 100%. That's fucking crazy. That's cool. It's shit over all the time because it was good wood. Yeah. Well, obviously, because it was new wood, because you had to keep replacing it. But this part of the apartment was sinking all the time. And so we'd be at dinner and like, it was just a nightmare. And mom would like, it would be absolutely miserable. And mom would be like, I'm going to go lay out in the yard and it was just like everything was just a fucking nightmare. Louisiana's tough, man. My assistant who loves you, by the way, is absolutely in love with you. Erica shout out to Erica. Oh, I'm glad that it went Erica. I thought it was going to stop and see Eric. Eric loves you. My assistant Eric. My assistant Bob loves you. Now Erica loves you, but she's from Louisiana. Oh nice. She's tough. She lives in in Atlanta, but she's tough. And I fat like I went to jail in Louisiana. Louisiana is tough. And what were the charges? I don't know. Drunken fighting. No. Oh, obstruct. No. It was, it was, when you get in the way of something that the cops are doing, what do they call it? Oh, yeah, there you go. Josh went in Tiger Woods went to jail to get Tiger Woods. Oh, sorry. It's a matter with you. I just know. I think you hang out with fancy people sometimes. That's you. Even I even scroll up. Let me see Josh Roland, Jeffrey, Jeffrey Wright. Sorry, Shreveport arrested two actors in several crew members and more with the with the latest movie in Hollywood South. W the star of Oliver Stone's film W early this morning. Lisa put the star of it. Thank God, right? Yeah, at least I'm worth something other than just a mug shot. Did you get arrested? Was this a frequent thing? Yeah, fairly. Was it? Did you feel like you had to get or like, because if you go parties, I feel like you have to get it because I never had that kind of stuff really. No, I know you didn't because you didn't have the face for it. Yeah. Yeah. You did two nights of a face. Yeah. Oh, well, I just had a face you wanted to arrest. Oh, you didn't. Yeah, I think so. I think so. No, I don't feel like I did that. No, that was more of my mom coming out. My mom would get arrested too. Oh, really? Yeah, but she'd usually get out of it. Yeah. Like, there's a story about my mom where she got pulled over and the guy was like not talking to her really and she always sped. She always went a hundred miles an hour. That was the number she loved. Was a hundred. So she was a hundred miles an hour and get pulled over and this guy's given her a ticket. She took the ticket like they used to have those or he's a motorcycle cop. So they had the whatever that leather thing with the ticket inside and handed it to her and she took it and she threw it out in the middle of the freeway. And then he stopped traffic, went out, picked it up, came back, handed it to her again and she liked that. She liked that kind of like silent, strong type and they became really close friends. He was over at the house all the time. So where she would, where one would have gone to jail, Muccio, she got, she would have too, but she just was so charming. She got out of it. It makes me realize there's something, some women like that thing of like, that's what I mean. I never realized that till recently, some girls like it when it's just like, I love it. Fuck you. Fuck you. I think, yeah, I think that's coming around too. I mean, obviously this is going to get me in trouble, but I think there's something that's like things have been so sketch and scary and paralyzed that I'm starting to see that kind of come back. Oh, we're getting out of the wheelchair, brother. He'd feel me. We're getting out of the wheelchair. Stella got it. Her legs back. We got this shit. You had, you had famous at a young age, like how do you go from the pseudo rats kind of energy, right? How do you go? We don't want to talk about it. No, I don't know, but because how do you go from that to becoming like a, no, I think it's fascinating because when I look at pictures of like me and the goonies, which never should have happened, because I had missed 36 out of 56 days of school. I got in a fight with my mom. She kicked me out of the house in Santa Barbara. I went to go live on the couch with my dad and he was in an apartment with his girlfriend in LA. So it was like me going, I got to get my shit together. What do I do? My dad's an actor. Maybe I'll try that. Maybe I'll do that in martial arts. You always got to get into martial arts when you're getting your shit together. Everybody, every kid, you know what I mean? That's fist footway. That's what the movie is about. That's it. That's it. And then so yeah, I tried to get my shit together and I went on auditions. I went on so many auditions to it and I heard so many people say basically versions of you suck. Like definitely don't do this. Don't pursue this. Like the martial arts things sounds pretty good for you. What were you good at? Were you? What? What? Were you good at auditioning? auditioning is hard. No, I just said. I was horrible at it. Bro, I was horrible. So bad at my job. Not only was I horrible then, but I was always horrible at it. And there was a girl and I've said this many times, but Merrill poster, who was third in charge at Miramax, said when that thing was still going on, she said the worst, she said it publicly, the worst auditioners we ever saw. We ever experienced in our kind of history at Miramax. We're Benicio del Toro and Josh Brolin. Let's go. So there's some positive in that somewhere. Yeah, there were some things. You look at Benicio and you go, he's great. Yeah. And there's some way that obviously that that doesn't define everything. Because yeah, I think like that auditioning is so hard. Dude, one time I went in, this is a freaking move, some embarrassing story. I stayed up watching Shirley Temple movie, right? And I went in audition and they're like, if you're saying something and I can't sing at all, right? I can sing. I mean, I can do Christmas carols and maybe a couple of mild stuff or maybe some early bush. But yeah, I can do some guns and rosy, but that's imitation. But it's like I can't really sing. So I sang a song of Shirley Temple's, right? In this audition room, I think they're like, really? Yeah. Like you chose it? Yeah. They were like, can you sing? And you go, actually, I prepared a Shirley Temple song. Yeah. And I didn't know what else to do because it was more like a, it's almost like reading a poem or singing like Christmas. It didn't feel like real singing or something, you know? And I remember, at first, I started and it was not going good and I was like can you guys open the window because I was just so fucking scared So they try to open the window and it didn't open it was like one of those business where they just want you to remember our Yeah, being pain in there. They're over there looking at the fucking thing And they already know I have no chance at this And then I was like and so then I did it again and I just like god I remember going home and be like I just can't fucking live like this man. It's horrible There's no worse feeling when I know people audition even today, and I'm like I wouldn't worse I wouldn't wish that I'm my worst enemy. Yeah, I just I mean I mean and you think it's something like so We'll go back, but like I so after the goonies I didn't really there was flirting with disaster in the middle There was a movie that I did that I was really lucky to get and the only reason I got it is because David O'Rossal demanded that I was the guy But Miramax had no he's a guy who should have hit and didn't so I spent 22 years kind of in the ethers after the goonies, right? Because goonies you that book head that was one of the biggest at the time was it one of the biggest things that ever happened Yeah, okay, you mean to me or just period. I think just period here just period was it it was yeah Because I remember like when did goonies come out was it 80s? 85 right I remember of course watching when I was a kid, but sometimes when you're a young kid You're not exactly the sure if some of the time not four years ago or it just came out, but yeah It was one of the craziest it was like everybody impersonated everything and everything was related to it and like you had like Yeah, it was Halloween costumes and everything So that was one of so it was one of the biggest things that happened so at that time were you drinking and partying at that time? Yeah, bro. That's what that's the thing. No, no, I'm not saying that like a pot But bring up that last picture that you just that you just had like I look at that And then I think I'm lying. Do you know how like if you look back at your stories and all that kind of stuff And you're talking about your mom and you're talking about how they stole your balcony and all that kind of stuff And then you think am am I lying? Did I make a bunch of shit up because when I look at that dude? I go you look pretty healthy and young and pretty innocent and naive Oh, like are the stories in your head not real or not real because because that guy I don't see what I know Was the trajectory from eight to that I say is super gnarly You know, I'm not gonna say it on here, but the shit that I was doing before that moment was I should have been here already Really? Oh, yeah, for sure you were partying pretty hard super hard like what like some of those guys had already died at that point so Anyway, then you get this then you go out and you'd be with your dad and then you go on the 150 auditions and people are saying you know it's not for you And then you get a role and it's that role and you show up and you've never done it and you don't know what you're doing So that was one of your first roles goonies the first role. No way dude. I didn't sorry. I didn't know this the first time ever in front of a camera I ruined the first day of shooting because I couldn't stop laughing Wow couldn't stop Rooting the whole because you were laughing. He said I'll see ridiculous. No, it's just like nerves like nerves coming out sideways and shit action You know Just fucking it all up and I remember Spielberg coming up and saying we need to we need to get through this you need to just take a breath Let's just get through this. I'm like. Oh, oh, yeah, okay But then yeah, then I did thrashing after that which was became like one of the worst movies I ever did to me at that time Thrashing. Yeah, it's a skateboarding movie. Oh, that makes sense though There you go. Like look at that quintessential 80s movie. Oh my god. Yeah, look at Will Farrell in that This is like Will Farrell and a young David Spade I feel like in this Right here dude my assistant Bob loves you I mean, there's a thing. It's like it's a guy story. That's great You don't it actually that that picture looks like Val Kilmer really it kind of does Don't it what me or her? You do Different stages of all that was about later thrashed and it was just val finding himself So that kind of became like Tony Hawk was in that were you ever skater now? Yeah, yeah, so Tony Hawk was in that and like Tony Alva and all these famous skaters Christian is soy and this became way later like a cult film got it Yeah, so I was gonna ask if it became like a cult classic. Yeah, but I saw it and I was so bad in it I was like like my acting is actually like actively hurting people at this point Like go figure this out But what do you where you did you think that it was because you'd had a better director the first time or could you even ever do it And you just didn't realize it maybe but you're asking questions that I couldn't even because I hadn't been all right It's not like I grew up in the business that grew up in LA and all so I didn't know All I know is I is I sounded stupid to me Oh, and then I had no voice control which I realized later is like part of it and you kind of you know you're like Chrissy Yeah, I love you and you're like ew You know and that and then I went to New York and I studied and I did all that stuff and Then I kind of changed it. I met this guy Anthony Zerby. I started doing a bunch of theater. I started doing all that stuff sporing but Yeah, I took it seriously So I had 22 years of taking it seriously because nobody was interested Until really I did no country. Yeah, and then no country kind of changed shit Kind of yeah Definitely good for you dude. Yeah, thanks man. Just sticking it out and still believe in yourself I bet where there are times where you like did you even did you get another job? I was a time where you're like I can't well I guess you had to get a job at some point something else or were you were you able to just financially take care of yourself? Yeah, I did I was a landscaper for a year. Oh fuck. Yeah, and then I was when I was 30 I Was a traded full-time. I learned how to trade from a guy named Brett Markinson trading what card dogs. Oh, Stocks. Yeah, stop Wow, and I was really good. You were a stock trader for almost five years full-time Were you on the floor with the tickets and stuff? No, bro It would have been great. Yeah, you know, no. I was at home with one two three screens and four tabs per screen. Oh you were day trading I was day trading. I was swing trading and day trading What's the most you ever made like in a you know the most? I made more my I put it this way I made more money in those Four years really it was five years, but it within four years then I had made in 20 years acting But I didn't really make hardly anything acting You know there was I didn't I wasn't really working. I mean think about it Dude and it's not and I don't mean to insult anybody out there But if you think about like and I think it's okay to say this no country I made how much you think I made from no country. I had been doing it already for 22 years 20 whatever years How much like I'm they paid you to be in no country for a little bit about somebody being paid or not being paid How much do you think they pay I think that they paid you? Up front. I bet that they paid you $200,000. That's pretty good. That was a good yes 100 100 so I cleared what 30 yeah It's not considered a great year No, you know what I mean? Yeah 30. Yeah, and then I did American gangster after that because I auditioned While I was doing no country. I sent in a tape and my son who was 16 at the time played the Denzel part Hmm we sent in that tape and that's the last audition I ever did That was it. I think so. I think so. I think maybe there was one other offer only I Love that you have to celebrate that stuff. It's cool. Oh fuck. That's cool. It's so cool to especially the fucking hurting people with my auditions But yeah, anyway, that's that and so the day trading went good the day trading. I loved man But you had to give it up to act it was but it was date But that's the kind of like to go back and like say how you're defined in your way and like Oh, this is how I'm defined or it's with fighting or it's drinking and all that kind of shit And then you start things start to get revealed that you're good at you're like, wow I could have developed this shit when I was young Given the opportunity or maybe given somebody to direct you a mentor or a parent or something like that like you're actually good at the Shit, you're not a total dumb shit, right? You know what I mean? Yeah, there was nothing there was nothing to suggest that there was anything other than a hollow shell Of alcohol. Yeah. Oh, dude. Sometimes it's like if I had somebody just to help lay down some banks But instead I spent my whole life just like literally just trying to keep the water in with my fucking hands It feels like that's it and it just feels impossible sometimes but not all the time and over time it gets better. Yeah When did you start to get soap or when was that leg journey for you quickly? I'll tell you 19 I've gotten busted for something and I had to get out of it. So at 19 I at 19 and I was doing a little I did a little bit of I did jail time But then I stayed sober for three and a half years then I went back out very actively like consciously right then I I'm gonna go out there. Oh, yeah, like I'm I miss that. Yeah, I'm gonna go do that crazy heart kind of yeah like young young I was what 23 when I went back out 22 23 what were y'all drinking out there then I don't know what we're gonna look at you all into it Oh, you're like what would you all drink it? Did it taste good? What would we drink in the back then? I was drinking what was it? I was drinking white russians. Why was I drinking white russians? Russian Wow, but it's for a reason. It's like why are we trying to be fancy? No It wasn't fancy. It was for I don't know. Oh, yeah, that maybe that was it mate. When did it come out? When did that movie come out? Maybe that was it And then I end up working with him twice. So there you go. What went 98 98? No, it wasn't that But it could have been but it could have been dude There was some unknown connection. We went to Santa Barbara and got to hang out with Jeff one day No way. Yeah. Oh, he's the best on the two months ago. Dude. It was one of broke one of the coolest times Well, I like he has a freaking chat GPT friend that no, yeah, dude. He's like he talks with yeah Gary's like Gary I mean, so of course he though. He had me talking to Gary I like the dude is What does he do ask him questions? Yes, I'm like therapy questions He's like tell them about our wife Gary and he just he had me locked him just me him talking to his computer Then he made his computer make up a song about us hanging out. It was crazy But it was so cool But yeah, Bridges was nice, dude. You know what he said? He sent me a nice picture that he drew for me Yeah, of course he emailed it and he said we can get some soup and I come back. Yeah soup just randomly Yeah, he could because he can say whatever he wants and it works Even with that voice even I was making fun of my voice is he you know Inthrashing, but he'd like somehow made that voice cool. Hey man. Yeah, how's it going man? Yeah It's good to see you man. Yeah You're like how did you make that cool? That's so not cool. I did I love him and I worked with him twice Oh, it's so cool. He's the fucking best bro It was that was one of the coolest days ever just get just to sit around with him enjoy some moments Talk about some different stuff. Yeah, talked about like relationships and how it is him. Yeah a little bit of Buddhism He had his buddy who had written a book That was pretty cool and then he talked about he was in recovery - he was he had been in some recovery rooms Yeah, so we talked about that a little bit and we talked a lot about crazy heart, man Yeah, did you yeah because you love that movie? I love it. I do too. God. Do you know the guy who who made the movie? Who's the director? Mm-hmm. Oh man, he's sober dude Which is okay to say I think Scott Scott my Scott Cooper Jesus man, sorry Scott. Oh dude, bro that song in there the weary kind Yeah, it's just so good everything about it and who it wasn't Colin Farrell in it Colin Farrell came up at the end and he sang a song at the end. No, yeah, dude was Colin Farrell in that You're our chat GPT Jeff chat what was his name Gary Gary to yeah, yeah, yeah, yes Gary. I got it. He Gary Paul Hermann Peewee Hermann Peewee Hermann Paul Hermann. No Paul Hermann was in the Scorsese movies cook Paul Hermann Paul Hermann was the boyfriend of my first wife when I met her before we had our first two kids Dear God, just keep going through the internet and I have some connection with every single thing that you bring out a day Yeah, dude Paul Hermann Paul Hermann was great Robert DuVall. He played the bartender in it that helped him get sober That's right. That movie was so it was so good man so good and then he was so good But you know what I remember seeing Jeff. I hope Jeff is okay with me saying this I remember seeing Jeff on the circuit on like the Promotional circuit during that time that he did crazy heart and he look I go, hey, how you doing? He goes I'm miss being an underdog Because he was just going from one thing to the other to the other and it was like That whole thing you get out of your own skis I'm sure I would imagine because you do something that people love or that you're lauded for But I've never had to really deal with that Really it seems like it's kind of getting to that space does it feel like no you don't think I Don't know or yeah, I don't know. I don't understand my career at all. Did you ever feel like you knew though? No No really No Because I could see Jeff like gets like so busy You don't kind of don't even know and then like whatever it was it made you feel special It feels like you've outs not outsourced it, but you've you've used it a lot. Yeah, and even if you use your gifts a lot. I feel like They there's something about they They lose their allure to you. I think yeah me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean and so that but that also on top of that like I saw It's Santa Barbara Bowl. I saw Jeff that's the last place. I saw Jeff and we were talking and we were at Dylan and We both know Dylan separately Bob Dylan. Yeah, yeah, and and and and and Dylan and we were both talking about Imagine what it's like being Dylan Imagine the level of fame that you can't go anywhere without people going. That's a genius Like that's Bob fucking Dylan who's defined eras in the world. Yeah Jeff and I are having no talk and maybe somebody's coming up going I love Lebowski dude Fuck yeah Or people go no country. What's up? That dude Terka you know, why's Jeff fans are Mexican seems like I don't know because they're in Santa Barbara Crazy hard bro. Oh, I loved you in milk Bro, you fucking played Harvey milk, didn't you? No, I didn't bro. You were Harvey milk. I wasn't Harvey milk Sean Penn wasn't it was it it was Sean Penn. He's pretty incredible He's amazing that movie. I saw that movie recently. Did you ever get to meet the guy that played my red foot or whatever? You know I'm talking about my left foot my left foot my red foot. I like my red guy that got that rash Oh, yeah, it was the guy. It was either him or was that no Daniel. They Lewis. Yes, dude God, I love talking to you man. You know nothing about the movie industry. Yeah Yeah, I don't know what's on about it, man. No, no, no, no, I'm not I'm not blaming you. I'm saying it's amazing It's amazing because you like you're talking about life. Shit. Yeah talking about like oh you're here We're gonna talk about the movie industry all the time. It's like when when you had Neil deGrasse Tyson in here How was that? It was cool because I think some people like have thoughts like he has different views like I think he thinks man Can be pregnant and stuff like that or whatever but I don't care some of that some of those I don't care about like things like that Like I want to talk to him about space. Yeah, I don't want to hear his voice You want to yeah, yeah, yeah for me it's like sitting and just listening to his voice for a couple of hours and and just seeing if I can like I don't know just have some nice thoughts with them or something. Yeah, it's just about like spending time Yeah, so that was pretty cool. And he's like did you know, you know, and he just fucking he kind of seems like something like Um, I don't even know what he seems bigger than life. He seems like father times like thick sun Hit father times thick sun. Yeah, it's like a father time at a thick son that went into his own shit like his space shit And his he's his dad's like, bro, don't be doing all the space shit and Neil's like I'm doing the space Doing it. Yeah, what you say I'm going out of my own. Yeah, and he also dude and he also like he went out But with like a hat like um, he just has this like kind of timeless. I can't even explain it. Yeah. No, that's what that's what I got when I met him He came up to me and he was like, Hey, man, I'm big fan. I just want to say hello. And I was like oh nice to meet you It's great. And then I'm talking to him. I don't recognize him And then I look down and he's got like one of those like a low-hot shirts, but it's got planets all over it and like shooting stars And I'm thinking what a weird shirt to wear and I was like no fucking way and then it hit me You're gonna look to cross Tyson your father time. Yeah, but the thick cousin of father time Fuck yeah, it's so nice. 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As an older person, things are being revealed now that I'm more excited about than I've ever been. Like quantum physics with him, and then I started reading his shit, and then I started reading, you know, what's his name? Carlo Revello. A Revelli, you know, and that Carlo Revelli wrote this book on, you know, the basics of quantum physics. And is that him? Yeah. Yeah, man. And these guys are fucking genius. And it's so fun following this, like, labyrinth of all this new stuff and being turned on to all the shit that I'm like, this is amazing. This is like, I feel like I'm, this should have happened when I was in school, but it didn't, but it's happening now, and it's happening now. It's so cool. Do you feel like you've had two different lives of life before sobriety and after? Like, is there something that that did for you that made life even more interesting? No, I feel like there's been like 28 of them. Wow. So there wasn't one or two, or like one, and then this happened, then it all changed. Yeah. No, and maybe because I'd been sober a few times, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it has to do, I think part of it has to do with sobriety, but part of it has to do with people I met, part of it has to do with setting. Like, I just literally landed from Tucson, Arizona, and I went to Tucson, Arizona for three days, and I saw a guy that I've known for 38 years who I met on the set of some series that I was doing out in the middle of nowhere, 45 minutes from Tucson, that nobody ever saw, but I met this fireman out there, and he's still one of my best friends. Wow. So I just went out there and stayed in his little guest room, and we, you know, and it's just cool shit. And Tucson is fucking weird. Dude, it's weird. I used to live there. What? I freaking lived at Colton, near Colburn, Pantano. What? Yeah, dude, I used to freaking live. Where'd you go to college there? I went to a university, Arizona for once semester, and I went to high school there for one semester, too, dude. And they would always have like all the kids, like predominantly Mexican kids in my school. And that means all Mexican kids. Yeah. That was me too. And dude, it was me, bro. And I took fucking Spanish class, bro. And they were fucking, they were fucking over on the side, fucking doing like, I think some of them were like even painting the classroom. It's just like, people are fucking worth it. They got jobs with the school for that hour. Or they were all hanging out. And I was the only one talking with the teacher. It was like me and the teacher just learning Spanish. And they all knew it, but it was the class that they had. And all the kids would fight in a car wash after like, you want a box, they say? Yeah. And they were fucking fighting the car wash. I didn't know how to do the accent. And bro, the best was the guy, like the short guy. But when he would talk, he would have to get taller. Like, so he would look fucking straight up, bro. He'd be like, dog. You ever see La Sleepy? La Sleepy. She dances. Bring up La Sleepy. I've never seen her. Yeah. Oh, La Dormirsa. There's La Sleepy. Oh, bro. La Sleepy. Dang. Oh, shit. She will dance on Instagram for you. Look at. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. Anyway. Yeah. Two son. Yeah. Two son is magical. My school, three, just to say it. Santa Barbara high, three and a half thousand people, 80% Mexican. Really? Oh, yeah. 80% Mexican. And it wasn't like a thing. And it's not a thing, but it was definitely like when I showed up at school, it's like, what you looking at a white boy? Yeah. It was like, oh, man, I talk good. What's happening? What's happening? What's happening? We will. Yeah. That's what that was. What's up? Let's see. What's up? We will. What's up? You know, it would be the, it would be the blue pants. And then the wife beater. And then the shirt with the button up here and open all the rest and the bands, the slip on bands. That was cool. What a thing. It was fun, bro. Y'all want to Santa Rita? Did you? Yeah. Santa Rita high school. And they would have the alarms would go off. They would have some sort of gang issues all the time. It's the alarms going off me to have to lay down. I remember laying down at lunch and having to eat my cheeseburger. Just laying there. It wasn't about like earthquakes and shit. It was just like violence. You know, violence, but it was a fucking emergency to Mexican chicks fight. I don't know if I did, but it's not nothing I've ever seen in my life, including Tyson boxing matches. That is that violent ever. Really? Oh, bro. Yeah. Just went at it because they get it done. Air pulling, punch and nails. That's what we need. That's what we need. We need that back. Yeah. We need that back. Do you know Dana pretty well? Yeah. I know Dana pretty well. I do know Dana. Yeah. I know Dana through motorcycle. He loves Harley's and I love Harley's. Yeah, loves. Is that one of your hobbies? Like my thing is I have a group of guys and I go with these long poles, 1200 mob poles or whatever. And then Dana does it with newer bikes, but he has, you know, his group of guys and he goes out and we talk. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's been real good to me about just, uh, he had just welcomed me into that group over there. Just letting me be around their group. Yeah. And um, that's cool. I do. I'm that's been one of the gifts of my life. He's being associated with I think the people there and the the this getting to see the fighters inspired by a lot of those guys, you know, it's so fun fighting. I do. Yeah, me too. At first, I didn't. Yeah. Me too. When that first happened too much, I was like, this is not going to work. It was crazy. It was the same people that were like breeding dogs and shit would have like a VA fighter. Yeah. They'd have a VHS tape. The same guy that was like saying, you could like my sister broke or whatever. Like that guy would be watching it on the weekend. He'd be like, these people are going to Hades or whatever. You know, like it was seriously though. It just wasn't going to work. And then it got more interesting and more interesting. And then it started overwhelming boxing, which was crazy. Oh, the journey of it all has been crazy. But in the beginning, yeah. I mean, when you saw this, you're like, what the fuck? I mean, look at that. What's happening? Is this, is this a, is this heavyweight? And what happened to the guy? Did he deflate? It just seems like. Yeah. I'm trying to think what happened. And look, no gloves. Bare knuckle. And then now we've come all the way around back around a bare knuckle with Mike Perry. Yeah. And what a great one. What amazing to watch Mike Perry's journey where he like, he was in UFC, beloved by people just for wearing his, all of his heart on both of his sleeves. And just like, and, but couldn't, he would always just go straight at the guy and get hit a million times. But then he created this other outlet for, and it just like, I don't know, so many great stories. I mean, Nick turned me on our producer, Nick's a one to kind of turn me on a UFC. And we had Tate Fletcher in. And then we had, um, I know Tate. Yeah, he's great. I take really well. And then Dustin Porier came on. And then he and I became friends. And then just like, David Spade took me to a UFC fight. And then, um, and then since then, yeah, we've gotten to go. And now they're letting me even work on the ring side and doing like a, um, like, commentating. Yeah. But it's like a, just a casual commentating. Like, yeah, just throw it out. Yeah, just me watching the fight to like Dean Thomas. So, no, if you ever come, you have to be a guest. We had Anthony Keed his last time. Drew Breeze. No, came and was a guest, dude. Drew Breeze, who like, like, he came and was a guest, um, just like, so moments like that, Gachi came. Rogue, just like, and none of that matters. But just to be able to sit there with them, that we all have this thing in common. It's amazing. So cool. It's amazing. It's nice to have the through line. That's where I'm saying about the motorcycles. And, and, and, you know, it's like, you have the through line, man. You have this interest. You have this shared interest. And you're like, this is fucking bitching. Yeah. And, yeah, the UFC stuff is huge for me. And always has been what, what was the last part? I haven't been to a fight in a long time. The last fight I went to was when Holly Holmes lost to Misha Tate. Yeah. That was Nate Diaz when Nate Diaz won or lost to Conor McGregor. Oh, wow. Conor what submission by whom? Oh, by Nate, did some Nate Diaz won and Holly home lost. That was a long time ago. Yeah, that was a while ago. That was the last fight that I was at. And I saw Joe there and all that. Oh, yeah. So it's just so much fun, dude. It's so much fun. And all the people that Dana has working around him, Craig Borsari, Nicole Amber, just like, there's so many people there. And now when I see him, like, I just remit, like, it's family. It's really feels like family. You have, I do want to make sure that we talk about you have a new project coming out called Whale Fall. Yes, sir. What do you want to talk about? Well, have you seen it? No, I haven't seen it. They won't I'm going to watch it. No, I don't know. I know. I think I knew that. And that's okay. Yeah, Whale Fall. I mean, this looks gross. It's, it's bitching. I mean, it really is like a word that I can use that you understand. It's one of these movies. It's, it's a book written by Daniel Kraus, who's become a really close friend who stayed in our house for a couple of weeks, finishing his last novel, he just won the Pulitzer for the walk. novel that he did after this, which is called Angel Down. I read this while I was doing, while I was working with Ridley in Italy on-- - With Ridley Scott? - Yeah, with the dog stars that just came out. And I was reading this book while I was doing that movie. And I remember getting to the end of the book and I slowed it down, which I hadn't done for a long time and slowed it down 'cause I didn't want it to end. And then it end and I put the book on my chest and I fucking sobbed. Like, when was the last time I've done that? - Of what you mean by fall? - When I read the book. And then I didn't even read the script. I said, "I'm in, I'll do it." And it's not like it's playing the dad of Austin Abrams who goes, the dad dies. Austin Abrams goes out to try to find his remains knowing where he went down. He jumped out of a boat, went down. - Don't tell me everything. - No, no, no, I won't tell you everything. He gets swallowed by the whale. And then-- - God. - And you're like, how do you do a movie where a dude spends 80% of the story? How do you write a book or do a movie where the guy spends 80% of the time in a whale? - In a whale. - And it's fucking really good. - Wow. - Like, and I'm pretty, I'm pretty honest about when I see a movie, I go, yeah. We missed a little bit. - Yeah, he said the rationale was bad. - Yeah, well, it came along though. - It did. And then I learned not to say shit's bad. - Wow, yeah. - Because somebody comes up and says, "Hey man, you know, my parents were junkies in this and I watched that movie and I found skateboarding and skateboarding saved my life." And I go, "Okay, so I'll never say, "Hey, were you in thrash?" And I go, "Yeah, the movie sucked." - You know what I mean? Like, why do you put that on it? That's not their experience. So whale fall, it doesn't suck. Whale fall is really good. The directing's really good. The acting Austin Abrams is amazing. He was in weapons with me. - Bring up a picture of Austin Abrams. Dude, I got to meet frickin' Austin Butler not long ago, have you ever met him? - Yeah, I did, dude, with him. - You did? - I did. - I was fuckin' watch that. - I did, dude, with him. - Yeah. - That's him? - Yeah, that's him. He looks a little skinny there, but if you look to the left, he looks a little more full-faced. - Yeah. - He also looks a bit like-- - That looks a little like you. - Really? - No. (laughing) - What about that one? - No, he looks like Timothy Shalamey. - You didn't see, you did, like Timothy Shalamey? You think so? - You think of him? - Shalamey, dude. (laughing) - He looks like you're a girl. - No shame, no shame, no shame. - Also, to even look close to Timothy Shalamey is pretty good. - Yeah. - But that's cool, but-- - Timothy's kind of the tip top of it all right now. - Timothy's a neat guy. - Yeah, you haven't seen Dune? - I haven't seen-- Oh, I will tell you this. I tried to watch it and the frickin' audio was bad on the television I was watching. - Oh, so you can't do that, 'cause the audio's like everything in that movie. - So-- - Dune one, Dune two, Dune three. - Oh, fuck. - God. - Sicario. Have you seen Sicario? Is that with Marlon Brando? - No, that's with me and-- - Oh, shit. - Wait, who? Beneath your del Toro. - The other worst actor, they put-- - The other worst actor, yeah. - Emily Blunt, that's a good movie, dude. - Sicario? - Yeah. - I'll put it on stuff to consume. I have a list of things to consume in my-- - You know I'm an actor. - Yeah. - That's what I do. - Sorry. - What do you do? (laughing) - I heard you were sober. - I don't know. (laughing) - Oh, sorry, dude. Some of the stuff's good. - Oh, it's not good. - It's not good. - Yeah. - All right. - Yeah, I know a lot of stuff. - I know you do. - Okay. - That's smart, dude. - Thanks, dude. - You are. - Oh, there's another one. Thanks for bringing up another one. Only the brave. - Only the brave with Miles Teller, dude. - And he's Jeff Bridges. - Oh, wow. - There's Jeff. - Miles is a good dancer. - Yeah. - He is. - How do you know that? - He just dances to the beat of his own drum. I've seen him at places. I've seen him dancing. And sometimes I used to go up and talk to him and if I saw him, I mean, Miles and I get along well and we're buddy, we'll text and stuff and chat about the fights. But now if I see him dancing, I just say and admire it. - Yeah. No, I do, too, 'cause you can't dance, right? - Not like him. - No, I can't dance. You can enjoy himself. - Yeah. - I always had a tough time enjoying myself. Does it make any sense? - No, it does. It makes perfect sense, 'cause I had the same thing. Like I look like an idiot right now. - Yeah. - And imagine doing it on film. - Oh. - So they go, hey, you're gonna do the stance and everybody goes, oh. - Too scary. - That sucks. - Too scary. - Josh looks like an Andrithal trying to dance. That's not cool. I'm like, no, I can't do it. - I can't do it. - And then Miles does it and you go, that's how it's done. - It can be done. Yeah, he just, and he does his own way. Yeah, I admire that he's just able to be such in a free space. - Yeah. - He's a good actor too. - Yeah, dude, he's good. - Really good. - He's really good. He's so entertaining. - Oh, what about the book made you saw at the end? Was it just the ending or was it something? - No, I think it was the father's son relationship because the father in the book is super hard on the son and the son rejects it in a major way. And then what he needs in order to hopefully survive is exactly what the father taught him. So it's not like the father was just being a dick to be a dick. It's just the way that came out that seemed dicky. - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying? - Yeah. - So then, and then you realize, ah, the dad actually cared and it actually meant something and maybe somehow the father even knew intuitively that he was gonna need it. That's crazy. - That was cool to me. That's a good writer to me. Like somebody who, you're just reading this kind of surface thing and you're like, yeah, it is a really cool story. And then somehow somebody reaches inside you and just fucking grabs your heart and fucking squeezes it. - Surprise mother fucker. - I'm not even a doctor. (laughs) - That's right. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And your dad was an actor. - My dad is an actor. - Is your dad, sorry. - He's still alive. - Thank God. - Yeah. - Thank God. - Thank God. - He's still, he's 86 and he's killing it. He's doing well. - Well, James, you have a nice son. (laughs) - I'll say that to you. - Thank you. - Your dad was famous when you were growing up. - He fluctuated, man. He did a show called Fuck Marcus Wellby when I was a kid. So my parents were super poor and they both come, my dad was kind of middle class family. My mom was super poor family from Texas. And then, and then he got this fucking role on TV that became like the friends of that generation. It was a number one TV show for like five years. - Really? - Yeah, what was it called? Marcus Wellby. Yeah, look at, that's him. And then he fluctuated. He did a movie called Amityville Horror, like maybe 20 years after that or maybe 10 years after that. So he would have money and then not have money and then have money and not have money. And he, you know, like normal actor, man. - Yeah. - Normal creative profession. It's like, you know, you have books that sell and books that don't sell. You have movies that do well. You have movies that don't do well. - So you saw this growing up. Do you think that's why you ended up on bikes and stuff? - I think it's part of it. I think it's part of it. - Yeah, some of you, something. - But my mom wrote it Harley. He didn't write it Harley. My mom wrote it Harley. - Fuck yeah. - With the monkey, which was probably unsafe. - Reggie? - Reggie. Reggie wrote on the back. - Dude, how could I have a suspended license? How in the fuck did you do it right now? - How do you get a license? - Oh wait, you have a specific, I had one. - Did you? - Yeah, 17, 18, 16, 17, 17, 18. - You got suspended? - Yeah. - They'll give it back. They don't like to sometimes. - They don't like to give it back. - They don't, and they shouldn't, but they'll give it back. Dude, but what about, so if your dad was famous, was it, it was fame like this weird thing that you felt like, I still feel it, man. I mean, look, if we- - But did you feel like was your, was it a big thing to your dad or was the acting a big thing? Is that a weird question? - Yeah, but it was my mom, like, I don't mean to demean my dad, but my mom would call studio heads when my dad didn't get something and say, are you stupid? - Yeah. - Have you seen my husband, like he's six, four, super handsome, like, why would you use this other guy when you could use him? So they were all talking about my mom, 'cause my mom, like I said, had to know- - You know, it's a filter. - She was everything. - That's amazing. - So she would just call and just, you know, and they would talk to each other and be like, have you gotten a call from this girl, like, oh yeah, I talked to her last week. And my dad, I'm not all his jobs, but he got some jobs from that, you know what I mean? - Yes. - But fame was like, I remember my dad doing really well at some point, and he would get really irritated with the attention. - With the attention? - Yeah, with the attention, with public attention. Some people eat it up, you know? Do you? - I think there was a time where you were excited about it. You want people to know who you are. - Yeah. - And then there's a time, like, I think it got to a point where it was kind of, maybe I don't put scary as there were, but, you know what? I miss, like, I used to, one thing I even used to, like, about comedy was if it was a surprise to people. - Yeah. - Because when people don't know that you're, that people haven't seen you. - That's what I mean. - Then you can, you have the opportunity to surprise them with something that you say, and that disappears. So then you have to work in a different space with humor. - Yeah. - And maybe with anything. - Which may be cool because you're having to reinvent your own humor. - Yeah. - So that's cool because that's creative. - Yeah. - And you have to, like, redesign this whole thing. But at the same time, it's kind of a bummer because everybody knows you. If you do too many frickin' podcasts or too many interviews, people know you so well. that what could you possibly do on the stage or on the screen that people are like, "I had no idea." And I thought you were paraplegic. Yeah. You're playing pre fontain. And dude, I think sometimes you start to like, I don't know. I think there's moments where it's like, I don't like, you don't even like, like, I don't know if it's like, you don't even like yourself that you put out there or something or it's like, you want to be something different. I don't know. Yeah. I think a lot of it's been kind of interesting. Here's what I do think about it. A lot of times I try not to attach myself to it too much. When I do, that gets kind of like, then I'm really stuck kind of into me go space. And I try to just be like, okay, this is an interesting experiment that God kind of has me in. I get to see what this is like to have popularity. I get to see what it's like. I'll experiment with this. I'll experiment my reaction to it. I'll experiment with, yeah, see, that's when it's cool. Yeah, but it's not like, I don't want it to determine, like there were times when I was struggling with sobriety and I didn't even want to talk about it on the podcast because you were struggling with it. But I'm okay with that part, but I didn't want, this is about alcoholism, I think, but it's like, I was afraid that, well, what if people respond to that in some way? And then my alcoholistic mind or whatever starts either relapsing or doing something like that just to get people to then, like pay attention. I got it. It was like, I don't want to like, what if I play into this public persona? Yes. So they'll keep liking me, or they'll care, or I can surprise them in this way. Right. I lived on that, man. I lived on the stories that I wouldn't even remember. But I lived on because it made me, it materialized me, it made me seen. It was like, fuck, do you know what you did yesterday? I was like, no, what? And they were like, dude. And then you go, okay, that's who I am. Like me talking about my mom now, and you're fascinated. I'm like, I'll create my version of that. Yeah. And then to not do that, you have to create this other thing. And then you know, like you, you're obviously really good at what you do. And people are like, oh, you're good at that. You're not just good at cocaine. Yeah, you're good at that. Well, tell me tell me a little bit more about what you're saying, because I'm a little confused on it. Yeah. I think that fame, what fame can do is define you in a way, and I don't want to be defined. I don't want to be defined as an alcoholic. I don't want to be defined as famous. I don't want to be defined, even as an actor is like, I realize it's what I do. I don't want to be defined as anything. Is anything? What is it? I want to keep discovering shit. I want to keep learning shit. I want to keep surprising myself. If I decided to quit acting tomorrow, and I decided to become a full-time trader, if I wanted to be a photographer, I wanted to do this, I want to be allowed to do that. I don't want to be imprisoned by some idea that I've finally been accepted as this one thing, because that's not my goal is to be accepted. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, as you're saying, I'm thinking about it. I don't want to be defined. I don't want you to know who I am, because I don't know who I am. Right. But then what happens when you finally know who you are, or you don't care as much how people perceive you, and then you're like, I'm good with that. It's like, with fame, I said there's one thing, with fame, I've realized this, is that every person who looks at me with some kind of an idea that it's elevated, that what I do is elevated, they think that as an actor who's doing well is walking a perpetual red carpet waving at a perpetual audience. You don't do real shit. You don't change the chicken shavings and with the shit all over it and put it in the bag and then take the bag to the trash yourself. You don't pet the pig you just eat the pork. And you go, no, I don't want that. I don't want that. And then people do that. Then they start thinking, that's what I got to do. It's a famous actor. I got to overreact. I got to just eat the pork. Fuck the pig. I don't even want to see the pig. I'm hungry. Can you go do that thing that you do to prepare my, you know what I mean? And I just don't want to do that, especially in my profession because I like your profession. You're a mirror. You throw shit back in people's face and they can laugh at it. They can laugh at their foibles. They can laugh at their, you know, how absurd we are and the shit that we say and the stuff that we do. And I think that actors do the same thing in story. It's like, yeah. Yeah. When you see an actor do something that you just can't and they are a scene that does something that you can't even, you don't even know why you're crying. Yeah. You don't know why you're laughing. Yeah. You've ever done that thing where you're watching a movie and you're like cry laughing. You're like, so I'm moved, but at the same time it's family man. Like family man. Yeah. Really? Have you seen that Nicholas Cage? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's old school. That's old school. You love that movie. I love it. Yeah. It's good. See everybody has their thing. I love that movie. That's why you can't say like thrash and ew. You're like, I don't know. I'm going to go watch that. And we have those movies that have those books. We have those movies. We have those seeing Eddie Murphy for the first time. I remember when I was in my room in Santa Barbara and I had this little TV, this little looking with the antenna. Oh yeah. And I'm watching. What was it? Delirious for the first time. I'm like, what the fuck? Oh yeah. This is amazing. Oh yeah. It felt like something like you couldn't even get into the world. Dude, my we had my we had a TV like that. And I would step and watch stuff sometimes and my brother would be like, turn off the fucking fucking hide your legs in your asshole. Right. He would say stuff like that because he was creative. But then here's what he would have to do. This is what he would do to me. He'd be like, are you can watch it? But you have to fucking keep your eyes closed, dude. And he'd be like, so he's so dude. More creative. We're crazy. So I'd have to have the volume on the lowest thing as possible. I would be watching a fucking program while you fucking told your brother. Yes, of course. While he tells me he's awake, but really fucking dozed off in a second later. But I couldn't tell because he was like, it was dark in there. Oh, that's hilarious. Fuck stuff like that was so good. Louisiana stuff like that is so good. You look back on it. You're like, that was that was a good time. See all the fucking balcony. We're fucking we were we were making stories. At least like even though I was like, I don't know. There were parts of me that had to come alive so early. I think because things were so uncomfortable and I'm glad I think I'm glad that they were a lot. It took me kind of a long time to get there. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a lot of respect. How old are you? I'm 46. Yeah. So I'm almost, I'm almost your age, but getting close though. 12 years. You're 12 years older than me. Yeah. God. Yeah. You're fucking look good. You know, and I wish you a boy, chill, bro. I wish you were a freaking woman. And I don't even know what that means, dude. I got to get some help. We should just stop it there. We're all. We're all. We're all. We're all. Thank you for joining us. This is the TheoVon podcast. I do want to talk about one thing. I want to talk about like so I'm going through the steps again right now. Yeah, right on with my sponsor. And did you like I was just thinking about resentment. Did you ever have yourself as a resentment? Of course. Oh my God. Probably the biggest one. That's crazy, dude. Yeah. Why that's come that's that's come up for me. Yeah. I read in somebody said something and meeting the other day, dude. And they said, um, I'm unacceptable to myself. Yeah. And I had never heard those words before. Yeah. And it was like, man, that's a lot of and I'm not in self-pity. I'm just looking at it. No, no, no, just looking at it. Yeah. But I'm like, dude, that is what a lot of like self-loathing. I'm just it gets like I'm unacceptable to myself. Yeah, but you know, not interesting. It's super interesting. And I heard and I've told this story before, but I'll tell you a story that I loved and it shifted something to me. And Tony Hopkins told me this story, right? Who very proudly wears his sobriety on his sleeve. I'm talking about it. We'll be in Instagram or whatever, which I love that Tony Hopkins is on Instagram. He's an artist. He's just, he loves like, it's not even like, you know, Instagram is this thing where you're trying to project some image and that people believe he didn't give a fuck. Yeah. He just like, this is me. Oh, and look at now he's just like wrote all these songs. Like now he's not even focused on acting. He's like doing these compositions and these Philharmonics are doing his music. It's just the coolest human being ever. But he told me he was like, how great is it that we're like this? And I go, what does that mean? He was like, we're just alcoholic. We're just angry and we're edgy and we're just dark. And I was like, is that a good thing? Is that like, I've always been, I always perceived that as like that a shitty and he goes, no, because given no direction and no tools, we create more harm and hurt than normal people than most people. But given a few tools, we can have a bigger impact than most people. Given that we have the drive, that we have the motor, we have the motor of alcoholics. I'm like, fuck yeah. Yeah, but I heard that and I thought this is an 80-year-old guy telling me this shit You're that's it and he's British as well What does that mean it just means he was fucking raised with a fucking eating Cadbury eggs and everything He's well. He's well. He's well. She's well. She's like like Richard Burton Which the well sir different are they well sir darker are they yeah, man. Oh, that's good. They're like great poets Dylan Thomas Was well. I got to study up on them. Yeah, man. I'll send you a couple books. I'm gonna send you my book. Will you? Yeah, see of course I will great what I want to put up on our shelf, too Okay, good on that note. I do want to say I read some of the your friends at Cormac MacArthur. Are you that you knew him? Yeah? Yeah, I was with him the 90 dot. No way Yeah, it was me his son his ex-wife and him. Did he live in Tennessee? No, he lived in Santa Fe in New Mexico And I was there working. I was doing a series and I would come in and see him in his house. I have I have his typewriter I have his pool table. Wow. He's couch shit that he gave me after you know, it's cool It's cool. He's a good dude. I like the hard guys Yeah, I like the I like the guys that like you you think that like Cormac and the shit that he wrote is so severe and so you know But then he was the nicest guy. He's so smart. He's so smart 20,000 books he left When he died and they were archiving his books and he would have he had like a thousand books on math or a thought or 300 books on whales. You're like, oh, you're a freak. I love that talk about not being defined and Plus that's another guy at which I think there was a parallel even though we didn't talk about it is that the first and Tell all the pretty horses which I think is his sixth novel or his seventh That people had maybe bought maybe 1200 books of each novel. So nobody bought his shit Wow, and he kept going And it's kind of like me as an actor like yeah, I started with the goonies, which was cool But then after that it was down hill nobody nobody cared. Nobody cared. Hello singing Shirley temp Yeah, you're exactly that's what I mean for free near windows that wouldn't open dude Like now you're 46 and things are good, you know, it's great. I know sometimes I can't believe God's grace in my life Even just in the little moments. Yeah, you know, I feel when I'm in that space. It's just everything is I feels okay. I like what you said earlier Would you just like everything's an experiment as long as I'm malleable. I'm like wet clay and I'm like, yeah, good Oh, that's interesting. Oh, look at that. That's cool. Yeah, you know, not like this. I'm contracting and not like that You know, just like that's interesting. Yeah, it's like it's all kind of fascinating Going to UFC is fascinating getting up and trying to make people laugh. It's fascinating doing a movie and trying to make it work is fascinating Yeah, dude, it's all like human shit Yeah, yesterday I had to do a solo episode of a podcast and I was so scared and then I was like dude I'm gonna have let me remember why I started this I couldn't let me go and try to have some fun Yeah, instead of fucking live in this whatever cage. I'm fucking always over here welding these fucking bars and screaming through them That's cool. You did an episode by yourself. Yeah, we started this podcast We did first 100 episodes was just be by myself talking and then we started having friends on and stuff like that I didn't know that. Yeah, it was fun. That's cool. It's been a good journey, dude It's fun interesting. He had all those books on whales and you ended up and your new project is called whale fall and I got super inspired by that And then I wrote a new story that we're gonna do in January called the fisherman and then after that Which is like this is full circle with the rat then Jeremy Renner and I there's a story that's a true story that took place in Montauk about a guy two guys went out on a boat fishing in the Montauk fishing community one guy fell asleep one dude fell off the boat And this guy was looking for this guy for 12 and a half hours This dude was just like a rat waiting in the water. No way he was gonna survive No way he was gonna be found. It was like a two hundred mile You know this radius and you just like there's no way you're gonna find the dude and he had no floating device He had no nothing. Dang any survived. Fuck like a rat 12 and a half hours of swimming in place until he was found right at the last second Probably with sharks surrounded by sharks. Hmm. So I'm gonna be the I'm gonna be the rat Jeremy's gonna be the guy looking Much easier job renner has I'll say that bro Taking the easy I'll do it with rolling that sounds fun You're fucking soaking wet every set. Yeah, I like the whale stuff though. I like Wow That's a lighthouse. That's the nautical shit. Did you get that done after that? I did let's go Oh, I did you it meant that I mean it meant that much and it was a guy who had passed that it was You already showed it once it was hit in his honor. I'm looking at the art to not look at your body Okay, now you're making it different Oh, dude, that's cool, bro I'm gonna just is what it is and I don't have to look at it. Everybody else has to look at it But I know I'm carrying it and that's all I give a shit about. Yeah, it's a good reminder for me And there's a great word Arate It's a Greek word that this guy gave me and it means excellence and everything that you do Hmm, and then the five birds in my family. So that's cool. That's a family crack experiment it Experimenting that's it why get a tattoo. I don't know why the fuck not. Yeah, I Don't happen. I mean, I have these but I don't really have it. I had all my tattoos removed. Yeah when I was 30 Yeah, they need them anymore and then this one came and Sure, why not do it? Yeah, experiment man. I love it Nice spending time, bro. You two dude nice to get to catch up nice to get to say hello and to spend some time together, man I've heard you speak before Yeah, I think it was at bread and roses. Yeah, right on and we know Lodge Yeah, we know Lodge dude who's such a sweet guy. He is a sweet guy. I got a check in with him Also, I'll text him a picture of us when we're done But yeah, thanks so much Josh. Thanks for just being a creative. Thanks for sticking with your art That's cool because now you can tell stories that are gonna inspire the rest of us Thanks for telling me about whale fall and just said it meant something to you because um Yeah, sometimes it's like you don't know who else is looking for that little piece of connection between like or Something about a father and a son and they're gonna hear about that and that might be something for them So yeah getting out here today to be a bridge for the little moments. Um, that's pretty cool. Yeah, so all right Josh Rollin. Thank you so much, man. Thank you brother. Yep much love Oh