#689 - Nick Saban

He's probably the greatest college football coach of all time. And I know he didn't like hearing me say probably right there. His run at the University of Alabama will never be matched. I would guess he's had seven national championships. What he's done is unprecedented. And he has a new documentary out this week on ESPN. It's called Sabin. I suggest that you enjoy that. I am grateful for his time, truly. It was an honor. Today's guest is Nick Sabin. [MUSIC] >> Yeah, that's one of those days. Sometimes I have those days where you're just like, how am I going to get it all done? You ever have days like that? >> Oh, yeah. Today's one of them. >> Has it been? And did you have to regroup a little or like what do you do like in a moment like that? Because I'm sure you've had them like at kind of intense levels. And then it said like regular day to day levels. Sometimes I'm just like, there's not a breath deep enough I can take sometimes it feels like. >> But you know, I'm so used to grinding through it, coaching 14 hours a day, one problem after the next, one solution after the next, I can usually sort of grind through it. But I don't do very well at is having nothing to do. You know, that after being so busy for so long, I mean, now when I don't have anything to do, I'm like, my wife, she didn't, she, she, you playing golf today? >> She's like, we're going to build a course in the backyard if we have to. >> I go to church on Sunday morning and she says, were you going to play golf after we're dry? How do I want to see you until 2.30? >> Yes, I guess it's kind of new for her that now you're home, right? >> That's right. I came home one day at 3 o'clock and she said, were you doing it? >> Where did you meet Miss Terry at? >> Seventh grade science camp. We went to different schools in West Virginia. She went kind of the city school and I went to the country school and, but we met at science camp. Now we lived about 10 miles apart, but that's like worlds apart, you know, back in those days. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah, but so we always liked each other, but I could never see her and it wasn't until I was a senior, she was a junior that we started dating. So, so it would be 55 years in December, we've been married. >> And how did our congratulations? >> It's been fun. >> That's cool. No, it's great to hear that. How did you propose to her? >> I think over the phone, if I remember right, what like a recruiting call? >> No, I mean, I was in Kent State. She was back home going to Fairmont State and we talked on the phone, but you know, in those days, I mean, you know, it was expensive, you know, to talk on the phone. So we'd have these short conversations maybe once a week or whatever and she came to visit during the season when I was playing and kind of talked about it then, but. >> Did she ever make you get down on, like did she ever make you go through kind of the formal? >> No, not really. >> Wow. >> And then we had our honeymoon and wheeling at the wheeling holiday in. >> Did you really? >> No, yeah. And weren't the big boy, you know, with the strawberry pie? >> Yeah, that was great. >> That was your honeymoon, was it? >> That was it. >> That was pretty cool. I will tell you this. I had a show in Pittsburgh one time and I had a couple ladies offer me the wheeling feeling after the show. I didn't get any of it, but. >> Yeah, that's not one of the most accommodating places to visit. >> Yeah. Yeah, I've had some good times. I did a show at the Big Sandy there in Huntington, which was really cool. I did a show one weekend when the guy read, remember they made that movie about the plane that crashed from Marshall? >> Oh, yeah. >> You know, that it was just that horrific tragedy that happened there within that community. And they, the guy who didn't take the plane, the coach's name was red something. He was speaking at the hotel that I was staying at that day. >> Yeah. >> I remember that story. Well, you know, ironically, I was playing at Kent State at the time. And we played them at Marshall several weeks before that actually happened. >> Really? >> It was really interesting. They had pretty good team, yeah, it was. >> So that was the same season that you were playing in one of their, the team just was going. >> Yeah, going. >> Wow. Crazy. >> That's what he devastating, there it is, right there. William offered red Dawson was the Marshall assistant coach who did not pass away in the 1970 plane crash because he was away on a recruiting trip and drove back instead of flying. That's right. Yeah, I haven't spent a ton of time up there, but it's always nice when I do. Did you guys take a lot of family vacations and stuff whenever you're growing up up there? No, not really, I mean, it was work, work, work, you know, my dad had a service station, never wanted to leave and I worked in it from the time I was 11 years old, so we never did. I, Terry and I always tried to do that, you know, once we got established and, you know, Myrtle Beach was the spot, it was like going to the French Riviera when you're from West Virginia, so we went there quite a few times, driving, driving down eight hours. >> Oh, yeah, there you go, look at you right there, Nick and Terry. >> That's it. >> That's magic, maybe. Whenever you guys got married, did you have like a wedding song or anything like that? Do you have like a. >> Yeah, but I wish you wouldn't ask me those kind of things, I'm supposed to know that I don't really remember. >> I don't. >> Okay, we'll edit in a good answer, okay. Yeah, I won't say a word, man, I'm quiet on the creek over here, man, I got nothing for you. Well, how about this, then, is there a gift that she got you like an anniversary gift over the years, one that you really kind of prized that she gave you? That comes to mind. >> That comes to mind. You know, we enjoy being together so much, and like we're best friends, she's always been so supportive and helpful in everything that we've done, that, you know, it seems like those kind of things are a little bit second nature, you know, she's always told me what I needed to hear, not what I wanted to hear, and it's been very helpful, you know, in my development. When I was in college, I couldn't get up in front of a group and speak, and she was a speech English major debate team. I lost a few of those through the years, you know, the arguments, but she really was helpful to helping me develop, you know, confidence in public appearances and that type of thing. So she's just been so supportive, was a great recruiter, you know, great relationships with people. So I don't remember very many gifts, you know, most of the time I'm giving the gifts, you know, not giving them. >> Yeah, I think dads are just hard to shop for too, but I guess I'm hearing you say that she's just kind of the eternal gift of you guys' connection has always been the bigger value of anything that you could just kind of get somewhere. >> That's right. >> Yeah. >> Is there a specific moment that comes to mind that she was really there when it was like a space where you couldn't figure something out? >> Oh yeah, there's a lot of those, you know, I think that, you know, especially once you get to be a head coach, who do you talk to? You know, your assistants are kind of your second lieutenants working for you, and when you have issues and problems, yeah, they can input certain things, but certain big decisions. You sort of have to make on your own. >> Yeah. >> And so who do you have out there that you can go talk to? And, you know, that's one thing that mystery was always someone that I could talk to about an issue or a problem, and it's interesting sometimes that the outside perspective is a little different than your perception of what it might be, and that's very, very helpful. >> Because even though she's your wife, she's still, she's not locked in it like you are. >> Right. That's a good point. A head coaching. It kind of seems kind of lonely. >> It is. It can be. It is. And I was fortunate through the years to have, you know, he's in a documentary, Dr. Rosen, was always someone that I could talk to about, you know, psychological disposition and how to try to, you know, motivate certain types of people and players, and he and Miss Terry were probably the two people that had the biggest impact on me and the direction I was always trying to head in on how they reinforced it. >> It seems like from an outside perspective that you've had like an amazing life, right? Do you feel like you've lived up to your potential? Like, do you feel like that? >> Well, you know, I sort of look at it a little different. I mean, is winning games, is that really what your life's potential is or is it? >> And it's not a judgment. I'm just genuinely curious. You know, but compassion for other people, helping other people, could we do more like we have a Nick's Kids Foundation, could we be doing more to help other people, have I helped our family enough, have I been a good parent? You know, when you talk about all those things, not how many games you want, you always think that, you know, when you talk about all those things, not how many games you want, you always But there's a lot of things I could have done better, and that's what I sort of constantly try to be a better person, set a better example for people, be a better leader, help people create value for themselves, show people that you care about them. I mean, all those things are really, really important to me because my goal as a coach was always, how can I help these guys have a better chance to be more successful in life? So as a lot of personal development, importance of getting an education, how do you develop the habits on the field, the reach of full potential? So that's where I spent most of my time, but now, not coaching, I still look at other people, and how can we impact the future, and just like we're building a saving center, which is a student center for young kids growing up, it's going to be our legacy in Tuscaloosa. So how can we impact education and career development in young people? So all those things, could you have done those better? I think I probably could have, and we'll continue to try to do it the rest of my life. Do you feel like you've been kind of like a perfectionist? I know that's just a word that people throw around, like do you feel like you're a perfectionist kind of? Yeah. It's not a judge, we know of you. No, I do. Just curious about, because I want to explore that, because there's not a lot of people that you can explore kind of that term with sometimes, so that's why I'm asking. But I think that, you know, and this is kind of in a documentary, but, you know, when I was a kid growing up, having compassion for other people was really important. Accountability was really important, in other words, if you had a job to do, and you didn't do it exactly right, you're going to do it over again. So you learn how to be accountable. But one thing that, you know, my parents always emphasized is, it wasn't about winning or beating the other guy, it was about, did you do it as well as you were capable of doing it? So, I mean, we won 30 games in a row when I was in high school or something like that and won a state championship, and that was never good enough. And I asked my mom once, why is it never good enough? And she said, it's not about winning the game, it's not about beating the other guy, it's about, did you do it as well as you're capable of doing it? So that makes you kind of a perfectionist. Right, because the competition is always you. It's always you. And the other thing that instilled in me was, I never had what I call relief syndrome, which is, you know, it's kind of human nature's, if you do something of significance, you think you're supposed to be able to rest on your laurels. Yeah. You know, and we kind of promote that in society, we promote it in business. Even players, you know, they would win a big game and say, can we have Monday off practice? We get rewarded for winning this big game while I'm thinking about how we're going to win the next game. Right. And if we play well enough in that game to win the next game, and what do we need to improve on? So I never, ever developed that, rest on your laurels, because I was never allowed to. And it goes back to that word that you're talking about. You can never be perfect, but you're always trying to close the gap on perfect. And I think great competitors, whether it's Kobe Bryant, Tucker Woods, you know, Michael Jordan, you know, those guys could always take the next challenge, man, it didn't have, how much they won or what they did. And that's how I wanted our teams to be able to compete. And I felt like I had to set that example. So if I'm satisfied and I'm thinking everything's good, we don't have to focus on attention to detail and prepare for this game the right way. And you know, there was actually two times at Alabama, we won 19 games in a row and we lost the 20th game and we didn't play very well in either one of those games, not to take anything away from who beat us, but and it was all because of complacency, blatant disregard for doing what's right, you're complacent. And then you start developing bad habits and it starts showing up in your performance. So I spent a lifetime trying to avoid that and never got it done. The way when 19 games in a row twice and couldn't keep it going, I mean, someone described that as keeping it going now, you know, so, but I understand, I understand what you're saying. Do you think it's tough for you to feel success? Kind of, I know it's kind of a similar question, but I always have a tough time feeling the success. I feel like a perfectionist or I feel like I am a lot of times like, I know this haircut doesn't really say that, but what's under it does though. And I feel like that a lot of times, I just feel like it's hard for me to have fun sometimes. Because perfection doesn't really allow a lot of space for fun, you know, just not a lot of room for it. Well, but I don't think I had a lot of fun, you know, because the fun of it is winning. That's the fun. Getting ready and doing all the things it takes to win is not that much fun. Yeah. But to your point, when you think like you think and like I think and you are successful as you are because of the way you think incidentally, success is not a continuum. It's momentary. And if there's anything that you've done in the past that you think is going to impact your the future, you're infected with success. You know, I mean, you want to be a flash in a plan and say, I can do something exceptional once, but have no conception of how to do it on a consistent basis. So I always define consistency for our players, consistency, success is consistency and performance. And that's what I wanted our players to think. You know, a great example of that is we won the first national championship at Alabama in 2009. We won the Rose Bowl beat Texas. Everybody's excited. Everybody's celebrating. We have this big celebration in the stadium and I don't know how many people were there. It's pretty full. And I get up and I said, this is not the end. This is the beginning. And I was sending a message, you know, we created a new horizon, a new expectation. Right. So we got to look ahead to what we have to do to continue to get better. It's like climbing a mountain. You know, once you climb the mountain successfully, you become the mountain. So everybody's shooting at you. How did you do it? What do we need to do to change? How are we going to beat those guys? Well, if you don't keep improving, it's not going to happen. I mean, they're going to get you. They're going to get you. So and that's hard to get people to understand, but you understand it. And that's why you don't have so much fun. I didn't have that much fun for 50 years. I didn't have that much fun. I enjoyed winning. I hated losing more than I liked winning. So I was always trying to avoid the setbacks and looking forward to what I had to do and have the foresight to know what we had to do to be successful in the future. It's interesting because once you find success one way, other people are going to gravitate towards it or you've already done it. So you also need to set a new challenge for yourself. But then what's interesting about you is to go inside of what you'd already done and kind of look at the pieces of it and be like, what worked really well here? What can still evolve and what can be different? That's an intense level of scrutiny, I think. Well, but to me, there's two parts to that. First of all, we changed how we played football through the years. We changed the way we played offense. We used to run the ball and play good defense. We won championships doing that. Then we went to the spread. We went to know how do we went fast through RPOs and all that stuff, which is what the room changes. That was what you needed to do. Well, we didn't play as good on defense because we played a lot more plays. And the other teams scored more points, but we scored more points, too. So we technically changed how we played the game to take advantage of room changes. But we never changed the culture of what it took to be successful. The togetherness is a team, positive energy, positive attitude, accountability, be responsible to do your job, what do you have to do to dominate the competition? That never changed. That never changed. But football, the technical parts of it sometimes change. Was there, like, I'm trying to think about like having fun, like, like, have you ever been on a water slide or anything like that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I know how to do all that. Now, I got thrown out of the water slides most of the time. Did you? We used to go on center to mansion, you know, who was the US senator from West Virginia for all. Oh, center mansion, yeah. He's in your documentary. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, we used to go on vacation. We both went to Myrtle Beach. But we never, ever made it to a summer without getting kicked out of the water slide. What were y'all doing on there? You know, doubles and couples running over people. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Sometimes we get their earliest run down it, like they had one kind of bus. It was, it was a water slide, but it was almost not going to be like at any moment, you know? And it was just like a tetanus shot, like it was kind of a safety hazard, I think. But we would get their early and run down it right before they started the water and that was always a good time. And I was just curious if you're able to also have like other types of fun outside of outside of football. And what that's like. I think that's the one thing that I learned through the years. I think there was in a time when I was an assistant coach, when I didn't do that very well. You know, it was work, work, work, work, take your work home, never, ever be able to separate. But when I became a head coach, I learned how to do that because it was just too stressful to carry it with you all the time. And I had to set up some parameters and say, "Okay, at 10 o'clock at night, I'm going home. I'm not working past 10 o'clock. So I can get enough rest because if I don't rest, I'm not going to have the patients to do a good job the next day. So there was some of these kinds of building things that I had to, and then I make myself going vacation for three weeks in the summer. And you have to make yourself do this thing? Yeah. And bottle lake house. So I could spend three weeks with the kids. And, you know, things like that, I kind of had to learn how to do that because I was so committed, it was not healthy. Did it ever actually affect your health like some of that stress? Because I mean, you were like, I mean, watching you like, especially like in your documentaries, pretty great to see like all these different, and they compile them all and make you seem kind of crazy for a little while. And you may have been, I don't know. That's fine. I think you got to be a little bit crazy. And hopefully we all were a little crazy at some point in our lives, you know. But that you can definitely, you feel the intensity of you a lot of times. I mean, you, I mean, even not even, and it's some of the footage is older, it's not even to hide death. And you're like, you can still feel the intensity coming through the screen. Um, but, but you got to understand that in a competitive environment, I was trying to show intensity. Ah, does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, I don't think I was ever, I mean, you want players to play with emotion, have intensity, but you don't want them to be emotional. So most of those times when I look crazy, I really wasn't being emotional. I knew exactly what I was doing, but I was trying to affect other people. Wow. Chess. That's Chess. Um, that's incredible, then, because you had affected media the night at home, um, just watching it. But did, did, did it ever affect your health? Did it ever become like a health scare for you? No, never did, but I always got a physical, you know, one of the things when I was in the NFL, they always make you get a physical before the season, just like the players. So I continued that in college. And, um, you know, several of our coaches had issues that, assistance to that, um, you know, created a better quality of life for them and save their life in some cases. So I always did that. Um, but when I retired, and I don't know if I ever shared this with anybody, I spent 50 years of my life being in a hurry and didn't know it. Hmm. So I retired and the cars are backed up on the bridge. And it goes down to one lane. And in the old days, I would be the guy that passed all the cars up and cut in at the last minute, front of somebody. And I sat there with mystery in the car. She says, you mean you're not going to pass everybody legally and cut in? I said, we're not in a hurry. But it's the first time when I retired that I realized that I wasn't in a hurry. And I was in a hurry for 50 years and didn't know it. Wow. Because I was always hurrying up to the next thing. Yeah. It's all the next problem. Go to the next thing. I mean, and it's great. And you talk about relieving stress, that relieves stress better than anything. And that was just the thing you noticed one day. You just noticed that. I just noticed it in that circumstance. Right. Not cutting into traffic and waiting my turn. Right. Yeah. Sometimes we need proof from like our own actions and it'll almost surprise us. I realized one day that I was like, I felt like there's been a to-do list since I was born. And I don't know who wrote it or started it or how it ever began. But I'll always feel like I'm running behind. Like it's been an eternal feeling that I've had. And I've always had the feeling that I wanted to get everything that I needed to get done before I could relax. Yeah. And it's never all done. It's never all done. Yeah. I know what you mean. I know, man, I'm 46. I'm like, when is where is the end of this list? It's got, and who wrote it? I don't even put it together. I don't feel like prize picks is America's number one sports picks app. The app is really easy to use. That's why I like it. For players picks, just pick more or less on a few players stats and lock in your lineup. That's it. Rather, just pick teams. prize picks has that now, too. Just pick the winner spread or total on any game or fight. And with football season here, there's no better time to get in on the action. Make a football lineup or just pick the winner of the game and keep it simple. For this Saturday's UCLA versus Oregon game, I'm going with the ducks prize picks is available in most states, including California, Texas and Florida. Plus you can even follow me on the app at the Ovan. Tail my picks with one click and follow your friends, too. Best of all, play your first five dollars and get $150 in lineups if you win. Just use code TPW when you sign up. That's right. Prize picks just switched up their offer. So there's no better time to join. Lock in and win that first lineup. That's code TPW at sign up to get $150 in bonus lineups. If you win your first $5 plus lineup, prize picks code TPW play responsibly. First $5 plus lineup entered must win receive $150 in bonus lineups. Lineups expire seven days after issuance 18 plus in eligible areas. Lineups entered and awarded must include player picks. Prize picks predict is a registered FCM offering team picks and culture picks as event contracts, both involve significant risk. Not for all must be 18 plus and for event contracts be a U.S. resident restrictions apply void were prohibited use responsibly for help called 1-800-426-2537 or visit ncp gambling got a word. There's a lot of fall moments. I wish I had more of. I remember one time they had a big pile of leaves out there by the apartments and we all got already and we put some eye black on our eyes and you know some of us had pads on and everything and we just ran and jumped into the leaves and they had a guy in there sleeping in there and he's just been trying to stay warm but it's not fall until you get out there and get some dirt on your boots and when you do grab a pack of mountain dew the American original born in the foothills of Tennessee mountain dew was made for a damn good time outdoors when you get that mountain dew when you're tongue you just man it just reminds you of taking a hike with your daddy or with anybody's daddy or just tickling your cousin or just playing uh got your nose with the baby the bold taste you know and love comes from American roots get out there and enjoy the outdoors with mountain dew an American original tasting great since 48 look for mountain dew in stores near you when it comes to coaching how much of coaching is knowing football and how much of coaching is knowing people do you feel like and which took you longer to learn probably the known people part you know coaching is teaching teaching is ability to inspire learning so coaching is teaching teaching is ability to inspire learning right exactly so that inspiring the learning part is the people part and everybody's a little different in terms of how they learn and how you need to approach them to teach them you know obsessive compulsive people they don't need you to get on them you know other guys not a self starter you need to get on them a little bit so figuring all that out is important the technical part of teaching and coming up with a good teaching progression whether it's how to teach bump and run or how to take on a block or whatever that part comes a little easier but the other part the human condition part is much more difficult did you enjoy that part more you think i did because that was that was a big interest to me you know is what makes people tick what what makes people you know do certain things good and bad yeah choices and decisions and impact of all those things do you think maybe that you just wanted to find the next thing to figure out does that make any sense if i say that because it's interesting to hear you talk about so many little facets that could go into giving yourself the best possible chance yeah yeah i was always trying to learn um i mean even to this day you know i remember my dad saying you got two years and one mouth that means you should listen twice as much you talk you probably heard that before but anyway so i've always been a listener and i always try to learn from other people and anybody that was doing something of significance in our profession or a good book to read about and a successful coach and how he approached it and all that kind of stuff i was always into that always into that and we always had people come and visit us everything we had an issue with we would pay somebody to come and visit us and teach us how to fix it oh like different speakers and uh different speakers and some coaches you know like we had problems with no huddle who's the best defensive people with no huddle guys playing against chip kelly at organ bring them in and teach us how do you play against this how do you get people to adapt to it um so but you know we struggled in the sugar bowl and got beat by you tall because they weren't empty the whole game and we didn't do a very good job of defending it so i just brought you tall staff in and said okay you guys run and empty, tell us what you don't like. - Got it. - What gives you problems? So we were always looking for a better way and I told everybody in the organization everybody's responsible for a better way. So. - Did you ever feel like, 'cause ego is like a scary thing, right? And your name became, I mean, your third people that would, you know, would rather baptize their kids with you involved somehow. It seems like these days, especially in Alabama, right? And bless them. But how did you, how did you keep yourself from getting too smart to learn? Does that make any sense? - Yeah. - And was it ever a fear of yours like at a certain point? Like, 'cause ego is a unique thing, right? Sometimes our shadow gets bigger than us, right? If the lights hit us the right way. So it's like, did you ever have to deal with any of that? Just curious, because you've had such a unique journey. - Well, you know, one of the things I always did when I went to churches is I always prayed to be a good person and to serve other people. And you know, I ask the question a lot when I speak, sometimes is how do you pray? Do you pray to be blessed? Or do you pray to be a blessing? Well, I was praying that I wanted to continue to be a blessing to other people, which probably was me trying to check my own ego and make sure it didn't get out there to where it was gonna have a negative effect on things. And I'm sure you could probably go find a lot of people. I mean, there was like 70 people got interviewed or 90 people got interviewed in this documentary that would say, yeah, yeah, then you go, yeah. But I tried to keep an inch out. - You tried to cap it. - Yeah, yeah, dude, yeah, because the ego is such an interesting thing. What if you had players, how did you curtail players if they started to get kind of too big for themselves? Whether it's something that you would say? Like, you know, because that's a lot of, that's a lot of energy for a young person to be taken on and they don't really even know the effects of it. - Right, well, I was always trying to teach players cause an effect. And I would bring every player in and say, all right, what do you want to accomplish here? And a player would say, I want to graduate and play any NFL someday. And then I would say, do you know what that entails? And he would say, hard work. And I'd say, well, you got to do this, this, this, and this, this, I was defining a process of what they had to do to be successful. And I wanted them to learn how to self-assess so I'd ask them how they're doing. But I'd also go up to them a lot and say, how's that behavior helping you accomplish the goals that you have? And then they would usually answer, well, it's not, coach. - So they helped them have an actual thought process with them? - And I tried to make up about them, you know, not about, oh, I don't like it that you spiked the ball. Tell me if spiking the ball helps you get to the NFL. Is that helped you graduate? I mean, so I made it about them a lot and they, they related to that, you know. Most people are selfie, self-absorbed and ambitious. So appeal to that. - Right. - You know, I used to tell the players, you know, I spent eight years in the NFL. The two most compelling words in the draft report is "and" and "but." And they would look at me like, I don't sound right. And I'd say, yeah, that'd read the player, you know. Quick feet, change the direction, good tackler, good hands, play the ball in the deep part of the field, talking about a defensive back now. And he's a good person. You know, I graduated, coaches loved him. He was captain of the team. Next guy, same guy. Quick feet, change the direction, good tack, or all that. But what comes after "but" usually not good. - Yeah. - All right, wouldn't go to class. Coaches didn't like him, watched him practice, wasn't a good practice player, had a positive drug test. I mean, whatever. So who you want on a team, "and" and "but"? So are you making choices and decisions that creates value for your future? Because we're trying to provide you with a direction that's value-based, buy into it, and you will create value for your future. - You talked a second ago about going to church and praying. How did you start a relationship with God? Like how did that, was that instilled with, and you and you were a child? And then how did you create your own relationship that was more real in your life if you did or what was that like? - Well, my grandmother used to take a umbrella and beat me over the head as we were growing to church. - I didn't have a choice. - That's one way to do it, yeah. I mean, I think that's pretty effective. Your grandma's umbrella will put the Lord in, yeah. They'll keep your posture up too. - No, but I just, I don't know. And I guess it started because I felt guilty if I didn't do it. And I think I was made to feel that way by my family, my grandparents. And so it was important to them that we all go to church and that's the way it started. I can't say I liked it, but I did it. And then I got into it and I think there's a lot that you can learn from biblical experiences that happened in the past. And I always try to see, is this message helpful to me? - Was there a time in your life when you called on God the most to be supportive for you or that you really needed your faith more than you expected? - Well, I usually do it because I'm always asking, like what could I do better to be a better parent? Can I be a good leader to my children and help them make choices and decisions that would help them be successful? And now you have grandchildren. So you're trying to do the same thing for your grandchildren. So it's more about what could I do to impact other people in a positive way? Then really, I don't think God determines the outcome of a game or anything like that. It was never about all that, but it was always trying to, what can I do better to help people? - What made you care about people so much, do you think? I mean, I know it's a human thing to do, but. - I think that it came from coaching because my coaches that I had, whether in high school or my dad was my P-We coach, my parents were great at this, but beyond my parents, the coaches that I had, Don James in college, and my high school coach, they had the greatest impact on me. And I never really wanted to be a coach, but when it happened that I was coaching, that's what I wanted to be to the players that I coached. And so I guess that's how it happened. And I got a lot of positive gratification out of that. And I think that was the difference between being in the NFL and being in college. I love the competition in the NFL. I love coaching the players. I love the strategy of the game and all that, but there was a lot more self gratification in college about helping people because they were at the right age where you could impact them 18 to 22, and they all still had goals and aspirations of what they were trying to accomplish. So, and I think that's why I ended up landing in college. You've kind of run like it seems like I'm not run, but it seems like some people would say that they had like the Saban rehabilitation center for coaches that have kind of gone awry at certain moments, right? What was your determining factors for if a coach was a good fit for you on your staff? Well, you know, I wondered people that had character so that they would set a good example for the players. I think the players needed mentors and people that they can look up to. They needed to be knowledgeable. But they needed to be good teachers, have good teaching preparation and presentation in terms of what they did. And they had to be a good fit and use the word ego before. And I think with coaches sometimes you have to respect the other coaches and work with them and work together for what the best interest of the team is, not necessarily what's the self-indulgent behavior or what's best for you, if that makes any sense. And like, how would that play out for a coach? Like it would be like a self-indulgent behavior just like that. Well, I like the offensive coordinators more worried about scoring points and he has win in the game. Got it. Oh, that can be a trap, huh? Yeah. And, you know, you end up fumbling the ball at the end of the game rather than running it when you're supposed to because you put winning first. So, but, you know, when you ask about the rehabilitation part of it is, you know, all the coaches that I had on the staff, you know, people think discipline is punishment. Discipline is really doing something to somebody that changes their behavior. So it was easy for me with players because they all wanted to play. So if they, if I said, if you don't go to class or not playing or if you don't put having positive drug test, you're not going to play, they would change their behavior because it was something significant to them. You know, my daughter was always on the internet, always on the computer. If you take the computer away, you could get her to do study, clean up the kitchen, do whatever you want them. So, but it was what's significant to her. So I looked at the same thing as coaches, you know. You see, these guys had issues and problems, but they all got penalized. For the issues and problems that they had whether they got fired or whatever But they had some really really good qualities that got them to where they were Because they were successful at some point in their career as an offensive coordinator and even some cases as a head coach and whatever this Issue that they got penalized for Now they all the sudden want to change their behavior So that to get another opportunity to be a coach and I always just said can I manage this guy? Can I manage this can I manage the issue? Because I know there'll be a positive in terms of what the guy brings to the organization if It's negative doesn't bring it down. Yeah, so and We were able to do that But in every one of those circumstance that person knew that if they had one more Stubba the toe it was going to be career ending for them. Yeah, so they were willing to change their behavior You had a lot of guys in your coaching tree sort of them that were kind of that have been under you or I don't that's a term you but that have been part of your coaching tree over the years. Um, Kiffin Jimbo Kirby smart Laning Sark What was it like when they started to become this pack that was then like trying to beat you like was did that become It's own thing that kind of added actually some extra excitement for you like what what did that? What did that feel like because that's pretty fascinating kind of? Yeah, well, you know when you play somebody that really knows you That makes things a little different is it make it harder? That makes a little harder because I think you got a tweak things and change things a little bit Which may you may not be comfortable with do you think you liked almost that it made a little bit harder? I like competing against those guys, but I knew that I had a lot of respect for them because they had done a tremendous job for me And I was glad that they all got opportunities so because they did a good job and It was always a challenge to replace them because they did such a good job so but it was you know, I think we we all kind of respect each other as competitors and You know, you probably has some friend that you competed against that it was more fun to beat him Because they were your friend and it gave you kind of bragging rights even though you might not have bragged about it Yeah, it still gave you the right to see them in the text thread or whatever. Yeah, so Which one of those coaches that I mentioned a few minutes ago, which one kind of do you feel like learned the most from you? You know, I can't you'd probably need to ask them that yeah hard for me to know, but I think they all have their own style and when each one of them left whoever it was to go take a head coach a job Mario Cristobal didn't matter Kirby or whatever I said the most important thing you have to do is be yourself Be yourself don't try to be like somebody else don't try to be like me I mean you can take some of the technical things that we did here and you know the way we built the program and Use those things to your benefit, but you have to be yourself you have to be you Why because trying to do somebody else's thing is just a trap you feel like now? I think you have to be authentic and People have to see you as being authentic and people have to see you as believing You know in what you're trying to preach or teach or whatever got it when you were when you were recruiting Did you drive did you go with somebody else dude and or sir and did you drive or did somebody else drive like if you went? Yeah, most of the time I went within the system and when you let them drive or would you drive they would drive most of the time I remember one time we were in Iowa Mario Cristobal's You know cumin from South Florida. Oh, yeah, he's great and um and he eats all the snacks. He's been eating all the snacks down Yeah, and you know, I love the guy and he's done a great job in Miami, but We're in Iowa recruiting a player in the dead of winter, and I mean it's a blizzard Sideways I mean snow is going sideways blowing crazy. He never driven in snow before I said Mario Let me drive and he was so prideful, you know that he wouldn't let me drive I mean, I grew up in West Virginia. We had snow I lived in Michigan. I lived in Ohio. Yeah, so I was used to driving in the snow Oh, yeah, no way was he gonna let me drive all right, so we survived barely, but he's just wouldn't let you do it Dang maybe he thought that warm like because they got that the machi small whatever Maybe thought that would Milchell's path or something. I have no idea. No, he's an extremely hard worker and a great recruiter is a really good Yeah, it was really good recruiter Developed great relationships with players, and he's done a great job of Miami. I just can't imagine you letting somebody else drive That's the part that I think is tough for me to think about that part But you know so hard to sit there and let somebody else drive, but I would actually get work done Oh, I see and I would go to all these places that um I didn't know my way around now when I was an assistant coach and I went recruiting. I went by myself I knew my way around so I was confident and you know We didn't have GPS and cell phones and all that stuff back in the day, but Yeah, all these assistants now they got to type it in their phone and get directions and all I don't know how to do that Yeah, so I'd let them handle that part of it, but when I was a head coach at like LSU And you and the head coach was allowed to go to spring practice I would go a lot of times on my own and just go, you know to watch guys practice because I you can tell so much more about a player if you see him live Then you can look into the film But um, I love that and it was great and you know there were two coaches that did it Erdmauer did a great job of that and I did it and they passed a rule that we couldn't run on a road Oh, that's a saving rule, isn't it? Yeah, so they call it Did you ever get into a place where you were not welcome like did you ever pull up on a porch or something knock on somebody's door where you were just not welcome? Yeah, when I first went to LSU in New Orleans and you know you know South Louisiana The people were not happy with LSU I never was several families. I went in and they just said we're just not interested in and talking to you And we had to actually prove ourselves that we were going to create value for players I mean, we built an academic center there. We took the graduation rate from The low 30s to 72 percent I think in four years and we won the national championship So but we had to prove ourselves in terms of how we were going to create value for players other than just football Yeah, I will say this when you've gotten to a campus and when you've laughed it. It's looked nicer That's a fact. I mean Alabama looks beautiful these days That campus is beautiful and you know that community's changed a lot in the last 20 years Yeah, you know the school has gotten bigger. So that created some growth But they had a plan of you know if we Improve the quality of the education and we improve the enrollment With a lot of out-of-state students that would provide the resources for us to redo the whole campus which they basically did and You know football is kind of the window that you know people look at an institution So us having success and football probably helped them do that. Yeah. I mean, it looks gracious. It's great over there It's beautiful. It really is. It's beautiful Did you leave football because of the recruiting because of the NIL like is that kind of one of the main things people That's sort of what people say just off the cuff, right? Is that kind of the truth or did you just feel like you had achieved enough? Well, it's not the reason I left In fact, we had name image and likeness. I think the last three years that I coached and Having been in the NFL managed in the salary cap and all that it wasn't that big an issue But I could see that players were changing and I could see that the way you were going people were making more Transactional decisions in other words, it was more about how much money you're going to pay me than how you're going to develop me And I think we always sort of Created more value for players in terms of personal development academic development and football development And we had proof in the pudding, you know, we had high graduation rate fewer guys getting in trouble Most guys drafted most first round draft pick so we had proof that we work creating this value Now as the table started to turn we were going to have to change the way we did things and Because it was going to be more about how much you paid some guys to get them to come and That was okay because I had been in the lake where that was what it was all about in the NFL I mean players are playing for money. They're trying to play well so they can make more money Yeah, and they're trying to extend their career so they can make money for longer. So I was okay with all that I think For me, I never wanted to ride the program down I see like you you wanted to kind of end on a high note right I never wanted to coach where my age and my inability to have a positive impact was going to start to see the program go down and and And I felt like it's 72 years old that last season was really really hard You know, we lost early on and The team really improved and we got to play off and they did a fantastic job. but it was very challenging and I just I didn't know what I was going to do. I mean I think this is in the documentary that I'm sitting there. I got a four o'clock team meeting. I got two speeches. I got one that says I'm staying and this is how what we got to do to we had a young team so we'd have been good the next year. This is what we have to do and then over here I'm going to tell the players I'm going to retire and that was 10 minutes to four and I didn't know which one I was going to do. So how'd you decide? And I called Miss Terry and she said you know if you're that stressed out about it and you're that much there's that much turmoil you know you have to do this at some point in time whether it's this year next year or the next year. So if you feel that much anxiety about making the decision maybe now's the time to do it while you still have your health and quality of life is good enough that we can do other things. So that's basically you know what brought us to that decision. Was it the toughest decision like you felt like you had to make in your office decision? Yeah really? Maybe ever yeah it's really hard. I've been part of a team for so long and enjoyed their relationships with the players and had such great relationships with the players and knew a lot of those players sitting in that room came there because you know of the University of Alabama but also because I was the coach and you're generations of families generations of ships with the the assistant coaches and the staff and I knew all that was going to get blowing up and that was the hardest thing was to change the changes that created for everyone else. And was that kind of a weird drive home after that? Like how did that feel after? It's kind of that's huge. That was that was it was a weird drive home well said. I feel like that day when you get home and you set your keys on the counter they kind of make a different sound you know. Yeah they do but it also was a relief in a lot of ways that you didn't have the stress of continuing or worrying about making the correct decision. Right and I do think it was the correct decision for me and mystery and our family because you know I missed my kids growing up. I didn't really want to miss my grandkids growing up and so this has given me a little bit more time to have those relationships. Did it ever bleed over where like you were coaching and fathering with they almost became the same thing sometimes like just because it was so much like that would seem like there would be some maybe crossover in that space. Well I thought that it was really important that because I didn't have a lot of time with my kids that I made sure that the time I had with them was quality time and like how did you do that? A lot of the same things that help you be successful in life for the same things that would help you be successful in football. Right and in any sport for that matter so we tried to teach those values and you know our kids turned out pretty well so I'm not disappointed in that. Yeah what's something that you admire most about each one of your you have two children right? Yeah. What's something that you admire most about each one of them? Well Nicholas works in our Mercedes dealership in Birmingham and he's a general sales manager and he works as butt off and he's really he's all into it and committed to it and I'm proud of the fact that he's very productive doing that. I think he's a good father to his daughter. She's got a good wife and I think they do well and I'm very proud of him. Kristen has a son and I think she does a good job of parroting and a good mother and we're always trying to be helpful and how we can help him and he's a boy so he plays everything soccer, baseball. The only thing I hate is every time I go to try to watch and play I get bombarded with kids wanting autographs and all that which I'm never going to tell the kids know but I'd like to watch the game too so that creates a little bit of a conflict but it's all good. Like yeah what are the things that you get to see about your grandkids that you almost maybe like not missed out on as a dad but it's like it almost gives you a second chance. I guess it's like yeah it is being a grandfather give you like a second chance almost. A little bit yeah and it's not it's that you didn't have time you know like we only had a family dinner on Wednesday night. It was the only night that I came home and we had a family dinner where everybody sat down together at dinner because you imagine your family only is one night a week you eat together. One of the things that Miss Terry did because of that was Sunday is the day that I didn't like the most because you had to finish the game you just played start preparation for the next game so it was a grind on Sunday and you didn't see the players on Sunday so she instituted five o'clock to six o'clock was family dinner so everybody brought your kids all the assistant coaches brought their kids our kids our grandkids everybody had to come for one hour on Sunday so everybody had to get together so that was the kind of stuff that she could see that was needed that was great for morale of the staff and the families who were supporting the staff that made a big difference. Yeah I think having just a backup set of eyes like that is nice you know very nice because when you're in the fire you need somebody out there who's got a who knows how to use a hose you know helps. Yeah I mean because you're in there it's hot in there. Anywhere worth going this fall is better in comfortable boots find your perfect pair with Tacovas. Tacovas crafts quality western boots for everyone from generational ranchers and lifelong cowboys to first time boot buyers. I rock mine sometimes if I'm wanting to feel a little taller just going to be out in the dirt or if I'm maybe going to be getting on a horseback they just I don't know they make you feel confident and more importantly they're comfortable Tacovas boots are handcrafted with over 200 meticulous steps for broken in comfort right out of the box they've got the boots you need this season for tailgating festivals weddings bond fires whatever right now get 10% off at Tacovas.com/thio when you sign up for email and texts that's 10% off at t-e-c-o-v-a-s.com/thio Tacovas.com/thio see site for details Tacovas point your toes west. The CFP now what do you what do you think they should do with that because last year it felt kind of wonky right it felt like some teams should be in almost a different divide like a different big tournament you know that or maybe they should have two tournaments for some of the larger schools and then some of the smaller schools what do you think the solution is there and what do you worry about the most well me personally I think that people want to see the best 12 teams in the playoffs I think to get to a 12 team playoff we had to do what was politically correct and make sure we included some of the schools that weren't in the power conferences. Yeah it's like DEI division inclusion right so and I get that part but I think each year we try to take some steps to make it better like it was not good that Notre Dame didn't get into playoffs last year and it would have been bad if they got in and Miami didn't get in because I said Miami is going to be one of the toughest teams in the playoffs and go a long way and they went all the way to the finals and almost beat Indiana so people just want to see the best teams and I think the other thing is is we got to come up with a better metrics to determine strength of schedule. Like the question got asked at the SEC meetings this year Texas loses to Ohio State 147 now they had a bad loss at Florida but they end up nine and three so the question was if we'd have played Texas State instead of a Ohio State then it up 10 and 2 would we have gotten into playoffs and they had a hard time answering that question so that in and of itself says the metrics for how we determine strength of schedule is not what it needs to be right and we always just look at how many wins a team has and just like the SEC there were six teams in the top 10 they're all going to play each other so they're not going to end up in the top 10 but they're all really good opponents yeah so you're playing a difficult strength of schedule and that should be taken into consideration like I think they do a better job of that in basketball you know they say if you beat so many top 10 teams you get so many points you beat 11 to 30 you get so many points you get nothing for playing somebody who's done on the top 50 so they have a better way to sort of figure out strength of schedule and who gets end the tournament. - With the evolution of it, so it's an evolving thing you're saying, and with the evolution of it, it does seem like immediately kind of bowl games turned into just something that's more of a fun thing. It almost like the tradition of a lot of the bowl games sort of seemed like they kind of felt by the wayside quick. - Yeah, and that's one of the things that, back 10, 15 years ago, when people wanted to expand the playoffs, I said, if we expand the playoffs, we're going to make bowl games obsolete. Players are not going to want to play in 'em, fans are not going to go to 'em, they're not going to get supported. And bowl games have been a tradition in college sports, and it was a reward for a team going eight and four, and the team gets to go to a bowl game, the fan base gets to travel, and that's all going to go away, because the playoffs will become the standard of whether you had a good season or a bad season. And we had 33 coaches get fired last year because the playoffs have become the standard, and everybody expects their team to get in the playoffs. So, and that can't happen. There's 12 teams to get in the playoffs. Now, we may expand the playoffs in the future. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing. The only thing I'm concerned about is there is a limit to how many games a college player should play. There are three or four times where we played 15 games in the season, and I thought that was too many. Now, you've got potentially 17 games that you could play. So, I think we got to be careful about that. Well, do you have a say in that sort of thing? Like, are you on the committee? I don't have anything to say. If you've ever met those people, who is the committee? I mean, is it real people? Or is it just a bot? No, they're real people. But it's wonderful if it's like an AI or something. It's like, who even knows, you know, it's like everything's kind of confusing now. Do you think social media had a big change on people? You kind of coached across this time frame where people didn't have social media and people were just like living in the, you know, the eyes on you were just one or another and the lower that was it, you know? And then this other thing came along where, you know, we all kind of had the ability to watch each other. What do you think the effect of social media was on players over time? Did you notice any effect? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think that in the old days, you know, players were more motivated from within and weren't necessarily exposed to what other people thought. So it didn't matter as much. I think what social media has done is created an external factor that impacts a lot of people. In other words, what other people say about me is meaningful. So as opposed to my relationship with myself. Right. It's not about what I think of myself. It's about what everybody else thinks of me. Like I used to say to our players all the time, people have heard me say this publicly before, is I see players on their phone getting upset because somebody puts a post on there that's negative about the way they played or something or whatever. And I'd say, why do you care about what some fat guy running around in his underwear, living in his mother's basement? Probably Pierce Nipples coach. Yeah. Puts on the internet about what kind of football player you are. Why would that matter to you? Yeah. More than what matters to yourself in terms of the truth about how did you play? What do you need to get better? What habits do you need to change? You know, what things do you need to overcome? What work needs to be done to make you better? You have no control on what those people say. Focus on what you can control. And when you take that out of the internal, right, you take that relationship, but when you put that out into the external, all that energy goes out into the external too. Now this motivation is from this foreign thing and it's not really this scale of a relationship with you inside of yourself of value and what do I think and what output do I want to have and what do I think of the outcome that I'm creating for myself. I don't think we know the long-term effects of that whole thing of taking all of this, this template of our own relationship with ourselves and putting into this external place. It's really kind of crazy. - Oh no, that was very well said. What'd you just said? - Was it really? - I agree with you 100%. - Dude, that's awesome, thank you. Oh gosh, I gotta write that down. I will say this, when we got to go, just when I was touring with comedy, we got to meet Coach Moffett over there at Texas A&M, awesome guy. But one of the best times that we had was we went to the Alabama campus and they took us just on a tour of the facilities and stuff. It's pretty magnificent, they got over there. Ty Simpson gave us a tour everywhere. It's pretty cool. We had a great time. - Ty's a great young man, they're dope. And, but we built all those facilities. They weren't there when we got there. - Oh, I believe that. - And they, the commitment that the university made, the athletic department made. People made to give us the tools to do what we wanted to do to support the players, the way we wanted to support them. With facilities, academic support, food, whatever it was, medical treatment, medical training, mental health, we had it all. And they did a great job. And it was very beneficial and helpful to us being able to build a program. - Oh yeah, I mean, this structure is there, you know. Let's look real quick just at Lane Kiffen, right? It's an interesting thing that's going on here, right? We can all say that, right? Like, oh, Lane's a buddy of mine, right? And so I love, like, Lane's the only coach that has two rosters, basically, as well, active. How do things end up with Lane overall, do you think? 'Cause it's usually been kind of taboo if there was like a coach that was kind of a single guy, right? What do you think's going on down there? - Oh, I don't make any predictions about things like that, but I will say that Lane is a really good coach. And did a great job for us. He's a fantastic play caller. He's got a great ability to recognize what the other team's known and adapt in the game. - Yeah. - To take advantage of it. He's a really good recruiter. He relates well with players. And I think, you know, that's all changed a little bit. You know, we've got a little more liberal in this whole, what's the expectation for how you should be as a person relative to how you can still lead? And, you know, I was always wanting to set a good example. And I think it's important that that's a part of it. But you can set a good example in other ways other than just your personal life. It's not married, so. - Oh, yeah, I think it's fine. I just think it's interesting. You know, that you kind of had like that. - But I think it's a little more acceptable now than maybe back in the day. - Yeah. - So I agree. Do you, yeah, if, say if, so recruiting is kind of, do you think the value of recruiting is still the same? Or it's, okay, so if that's not there, what becomes the new value of a coach to an organization? Do you feel like, how does that kind of morph or evolve? Does that make sense to you when I'm asking? - No, absolutely. - Okay. - So how do you evaluate the players? Who are you gonna pay? What positions are most important? 'Cause you pay the wrong guys and you've heard me say this before, you're shit out of luck. - Yeah. - So when you can't evaluate the players and you don't pay the right guys, you're gonna pay the consequences for that in the future because you're gonna spend all this money. You're not gonna have a very good team and you're not gonna get the outcome everybody expects. And then the cause and effect of this paying players is we're raising money from alumni who now think they should have a say in what happens and that's why 33 coaches got fired last year. - Because of boosters? - Yeah, they have a say. - Yeah, so I guess a lot of the value is gonna become in like judgment, like the ability to be a judge of character. - Character and talent and ability. If you don't, look, talent is not talent if you can't use it. So if you don't have character to go with it, you probably can't use it. And it's not just in sports. I mean nobody, nobody that's not really, really smart. It's in medical school. You gotta be really, really smart. - Yeah. - Everybody that make it talented enough, but they don't make it well. Some reason for that. - Yeah. - So and some of them that make it don't make very good doctors. So I always say talent is not talent if you don't, if you can't use it, which means you have to have some kind of competitive character to make that kind of choices and decisions to create the habits. So you can recruit talent, but accountability and commitment you have to develop. - Got it. - And most of the time you can develop it. - So it's gonna be the coaches that can have the judge a character, but then also the ability to help their players create those things. - Yeah, and also have the talent. - What do you tell a player now that can have a couple of million dollars in his bank account? Like what do you say to these young men at 20 years old that other coaches might not be telling them because they're afraid that they're gonna lose them or they're gonna afraid that they're gonna upset the apple card in some way. Like what would you tell these young men if you could? - Don't let the money change you. You know, stay focused on the things that you can control to develop value for your future because there's a lot more value out there. But I will say one thing that's very interesting to me. Former players that played for us, I'm not mentioning any names. Thank you. didn't make the money. They didn't get paid. They played. They created value. They made a lot of money in the NFL. They played for a long time. And one of them said to me the other day that was kind of alarming. Said, "If I would have gotten paid $2 million when I played here, I don't know if I would have become the man I became. I don't know if I would have developed into the player I became. I don't know that I wouldn't have. But I don't know if I could have handled that at 18 and 19 years old. And I don't know if I would have become what I was able to become." Wow. Pretty interesting. Yeah. If you kind of live long enough, you can kind of see this how the certain steps were shaped and the ones that maybe helped you and ones that didn't, you know, over time. I think that's one of the blessings about being alive as you get to see how all the little magic kind of worked out the little things that maybe you didn't even know if they would. I don't want to forget to ask about Sabin. That's the name of the documentary. It's a six-part series. What can people expect out of it? You know, this documentary is a little bit of a scrapbook. You know, my mom kept a scrapbook of when I was a player. And this will be the scrapbook for the future of what we did. And it's kind of a navigation of how did we develop this program and all the people from friends, family growing up to coaches and players and people who impacted. Oh yeah. And for the fans, it's going to be an interesting look from inside out because they did things like I gave like talks to the team and I would never let the media hear what I said to the team in the locker room or in the team meeting or whatever. It was always taboo. I didn't know Alabama was filming all this stuff and putting it in an archive. I didn't even know they were doing it. Well, we got all that stuff and put it in this document. So it's an inside-out look at how did this program get developed and it should be interesting for fans to be able to see that. And I spent 20, 30 hours in interviews and 70 people got interviewed and Fatta wrote a book. It's just the book. But now you've got all these personalities that you can see how this impacted and they related to this and how it helped them be successful. So I think this is going to be a scrapbook of the future for this generation and generations in the future just like my mom's little scrapbook. Yeah, I think I love the fact that there's you get you get all these different players and media personalities. There's like Mark Ingram who I love. I see him at the UFC fights. Rolanda McLean. Yeah. There's just so many different characters. Oh, your wife is in there. Your son is in there. There's so many different like pieces of your life that that kind of like chime in about different little things. And it's fascinating to also to see the different schools you played at the different coaching, the different decisions that we're going on. Like I wish you'd got to coach Drew Brie's. I think that would have been awesome, dude. That would have been like I start thinking of little things that I wish wanted to happen. Not in Miami. I would have wanted to happen in New Orleans, but still. But you know, the Drew Brie's thing would have been we would have been successful in Miami if that would have worked out. But then I'd never go into Alabama. Yeah. Because we'd have probably ended up staying there because we can add success. And one of the reasons was, you know, with getting call pepper, he was injured. He couldn't play not taking Drew Brie's because of his injury, which turned out not to be an issue. Because we don't have a quarterback in the future, that's pretty much why I was interested in going back to college. Because I didn't think we could be successful in the end. I felt if you didn't have a quarterback. And I thought that you could impact your, you had more control of how you could impact your organization in college. You go recruit 25 players every year. It wasn't a draft and all that. And we didn't have any draft picks. So I was happy to get the opportunity to go back and it's worked out tremendously. You know, I wouldn't probably be here if I didn't go back to Alabama and have the success that we had. What's something interesting that you've noticed about yourself being away from coaching? Like, what's something like, because that's a long time to be locked in in one sort of facet, one sort of machine. What's something that's you've either found that you a new joy or just something that's different? Stress level. Is way down. And it's easier to enjoy other things because you're not so stressed about this one thing that you can enjoy other things. So now I can enjoy other things. People, relationships, have more fun, laugh more. And all those things are pretty healthy, I think. Do you think you'd have such a good time on game there? Are you enjoying it more than you thought you would? I love it. Yeah. I mean, your buddy Pat, you know, I was, I was so anxious that first time where we're over in Ireland. I was so anxious, I had never done that before. I got a lot of pride in performance. I want to do a good job. And I'm all worried. And you know, Pat gets up there and he starts his stuff. And I'm saying, this guy makes me feel like there's nothing I can do that's going to mess up. Yeah. Yeah. So it just made me relax and has been so helpful. You know, all the guys have been, oh, you guys got a great group. I mean, it's just so perfect. And they're all so helpful. And they're all much more experienced than I am. So they've, they've really helped me grow and develop. But Pat is what creates sort of the comfort level for me. Thinking, I'm going to do something wrong or I'm going to mess up. So, yeah, you can't do anything better or worse than Pat. Kind of in a loving way. I say that. That was a good way to say it. He does it all. Man, he's, he, there's nobody like him. He is like, there's, there's nobody like that guy. Yeah. And I love being on his little show that he has every day. I always go on Friday, like at 1215. Oh, the pat Mac could be show you me. Yeah. Yeah. I love because the group of guys he has, they're all football guys. They ask questions. They're into it. I love that little 20 minutes of bantering back and forth with those guys. It's great. Nice. So do you think you're having more fun nowadays then? Yeah. I mean, I had fun coaching. Yeah. But there was, there was this whole big pile of stress over here. Yeah. And hard work and little time to do anything else to have this much fun for this little bit of time before you had the next challenge looking you in the eye. Yeah. So and then we won so many games. Oh, that's that. The expectation got so high. It was almost like do you really enjoy winning? Are you are you just relieved that you didn't lose? Right. So then so now the fun starts minimizing itself. So now the stress level is down. The fun can go up easier to have relationships with people. So I mean, for years now we don't have a lot of friends in Tuscaloosa all the time. I'm coaching because people call and say you want to go out to eat, you want to do this, you want to do that. No, Nick's working tonight. Can't do it. He's on the road recruiting. So they quit calling. We'll miss Terry coming eat at the office sometimes. On Sunday for Sunday family dinner. And Wednesday we ate as a family. Yeah. So, um, man, to long run. It's a lot of sacrifice. It is. It's not it coaching is not family friendly. And I think coaches are constantly trying to make it more family friendly in terms of the things that they do. But does it have to be that high stress? Does it have to be you think? Or do you think it sort of became this escalation ladder that made it even? I don't think there was any other way for me to do it. Got it. Hopefully there's other coaches that can do it another way that it's not that way. But I felt like for me to do it the way I was going to feel good about the job I was doing, that's how I had to do it. And that was a trap that I couldn't get out of. Yeah, your own success almost became, yeah, it's almost a trap, I guess, huh? That's wild. Yeah. I mean, it's a nice trap. That's what it is. But I wouldn't want it the other way. Yeah, that's a good point. Thank you so much for your time, coach. I just appreciate you coming today. And uh, well, I appreciate you having me. Yeah, it's been fun. I enjoyed visiting with you. You got a great perspective on things and a good ability to articulate things, maybe a little better than me sometimes. And I appreciate that for making some of my points. But at the same time, you know, hopefully this thing that we're doing, the documentary is great is going to help people get sort of an inside look at what it takes to built a program and have a better understanding of how this whole thing got done and hopefully it'll be something that fans can enjoy. Were you scared at first with the documentary that there was, it was going to involve too much of your personal life or did you even know what your personal life was because you've been coaching so long? You know, I'm not big on any kind of self-promotion. So I wasn't that interested in writing a book and I really wasn't that interested in doing this but there was so much interest in people doing this. There were like eight or nine of these whatever companies that do this that wanted to do it and I'm kept like, I don't know if I want to really do that. You know, what I accomplished is what I accomplished. People know what it is but this is an inside look at it and I think it'll be interesting to people and I'm actually glad that we did it because I do think it's going to be a scrapbook for the future. Give me a nice scrapbook for your family as well for everyone. There's so many people involved. Lot. They did a great job. You guys did a great job. The documentary comes out Thursday, October 8th, 5 p.m. Central and ESPN and the ESPN app. Coach Nick Saban, thanks so much for everything. Man, thanks for that championship at LSU too. Appreciate you. I love getting to join you guys over a game day and just thanks for all the years of excitement. It's been a good time. Well, thank you for having me. It's been enjoyable. Lots of fun. Thanks. Yes, sir. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this piece of my life out. I can't feed it. In my bones. But it's going to take.