Speaker 1Hello, you filthy animals. Welcome back to the James Kennedy podcast. I hope you've all been awesome since the last time we spoke. I'm a little bit hoarse right now, man, because I've been gigging all weekend with James Kennedy and the underdogs and drinking a little bit too much whiskey. So if I start to sound like Marge Simpson, that's why. We are living in interesting times right now, man. We got a general election coming up in two weeks. And if there's one thing that's uniting all of us right now, it is universal hatred of the Tories. That evil, horrible cartel of pompous, out-of-touch rich dudes that have been looting, ransacking, dividing and destroying this country and the country's morale and spirit for way too long now. But this time we've got the added problem of the usual alternative, that is the Labour Party, being absolutely useless, bought and sold by the same powers that be as the Tory party. Keir Starmer is a blip. Right, Tory-like career politician who won't even condemn a genocide and lies and contradicts himself at any given opportunity quite openly in front of the world's media without any shred of remorse, shame or even embarrassment. So it's a tricky one. The traditional Labour voters have got no love for Labour and nobody's got any love for the Tories. In fact, I would say we all violently despise them at this point. So thank God there's now a very viable alternative that is gaining momentum all around the world. I am talking, of course, about the Green Party, a party that I've been a member of for many years now and have been a vocal supporter of. And it is great and it is about time to see them gaining so much popularity around the country. Because for me, the Green Party are now doing the job that the traditional Labour Party would have done or should have done, in that they represent us, the everyday people of this country, that need good hospitals, employment protections, less inequality and more protection for our most vulnerable. And a lot of other stuff which we're going to do a deep dive into in this episode, including, of course, an actual green policy for the protection of our environment and, of course, to combat the ever-looming crisis of the climate. So I will be devoting this entire episode to the Green Party, the party that I will be voting for. And if you want to live in a society that's healthier, more prosperous, fairer, kinder and better for everybody, you should too. And hey, look, this is not going to be an unbiased or impartial conversation. This is my podcast. This is my podcast. This is my podcast. This is my podcast. And I'll plug what the hell I like. So strap in, because we're about to dive feet first into the Green Party's manifesto and policies and politics and hopefully convince you all to come and join us on the side where the grass is most definitely greener. And who better to join me for such a conversation than Mr. Zach Polanski, deputy leader of the Green Party of England and Wales and a super cool dude with a lot to say. So let's get down to business and welcome onto the show, Mr. Zach Polanski. Thank you so much for joining us, man. How are you doing?
Speaker 2I'm great, James. Thanks for having me on. How are you?
Speaker 1I'm okay. Thank you, man. A little bit worse for wear, as I said, you know, but hey, that's my own fault. But I mean, it must be a crazy busy time for you right now with everything happening with the election coming up and everything. So what's going on with you right now, man? What's happening?
Speaker 2It's pretty wild at the moment. So as we're recording this, there's a lot of running around the country, a lot of that as usual. But actually, I'm up for election in London myself. So I've been visiting every borough in London. And it's a really cool time, though. I love the actual job of being elected. But I also really, really enjoy the campaign, in some ways, even more so, because there's no meetings, there's no bureaucracy, no voting. It's just being out and about with communities and hearing what's important to them. And it's a lot of fun, too. So yes, it's a lot of hard work. But actually, I think it's important to enjoy it, too.
Speaker 1Oh, 100%, man. Yeah. And I think it's just unfortunate that for most people, they only really see their elected representatives or potential representatives during election time, like now, you know, when they're all knocking the door. But the Green Party, for me, I've always felt like a party that's much more connected to and built upon the grassroots direct involvement with their members and, you know, the community
Speaker 2generally. I think that's exactly it. We always have resisted the idea of being a top-down party. And although I'm deputy leader, the party policies are made by members. So it's one member, one vote. If someone joined the party this morning, or they've been in the party 20 years, they kind of have equal power in terms of their say when it gets to the conference floor. And exactly what you said, I really enjoy going around the country and seeing what our councillors are doing, because very often, it's supporting a grassroots campaign that they have then got involved with in the council chamber. So campaigning is really important. It's also really important to get elected, because that's how you turn that kind of energy and that momentum into making sure that, essentially, when decisions are made, they're made by the right people.
Speaker 1Yeah, I love it, man. And I want to get into, you know, the policies and the manifesto of the Green Party. But before we do that, I think it's important to remind everybody, where we're at right now, where we're starting from after God knows how many years of Tory devastation. I'm sure nobody wants a reminder of that, because we're all feeling it pretty hard right now. But before we look at the solutions that you guys have got to offer, I think it'd be good to just have a recap on exactly where we're at right now. So what is your assessment? What is your take of where we are at in the UK right now?
Speaker 2Well, I think it's absolutely broken. We've had 14 years of conservative austerity that has damaged our public services. It's also been toxic and divisive, if you're a migrant, a trans person, a person of colour, someone who's disabled. Any of those marginalised communities in particular have been hit harder, almost than any other community. But it's not just for conservatives, 14 years of austerity. It's also a legacy left by Tony Blair and neoliberalism that goes back decades in this country. And it's really people are looking for something different and an alternative. And naturally, I'm here to argue that is the Green Party and that we are the party that offers hope. But hope is not just like buying a lottery ticket and sitting around waiting for your numbers to come up. Hope is active involvement. It's about getting involved with those local campaigns we were just talking about, making sure you vote, and also getting involved with the party. And I think that is the difference here. I think back to the conservatives, it's not just for policies as well. It's the way that they've done politics. It's for lies, for misinformation. It's for nastiness and running towards cultural wars. So people would look to the Labour Party in the past to be the natural opposition to that. But on every really key issue from Keir Starmer, we've seen him completely complicit with the conservatives. And I think that's the difference. And I think that's Conservatives are complicit at best, at worst, sometimes even going further than the Conservatives in the nastiness. So some very quick examples. So I'm qualifying that statement. The two child benefit cap, experts say this is one of the leading kind of policies that is keeping children in poverty in this country. One in four children are growing up in poverty. And it's even worse in Wales where you're speaking from, James. I think it's one in three there. One of the biggest things we could do, not the only thing, but something that would really make a difference is to lift that child benefit cap. The argument is not a hard argument to make. No child should be living in poverty. And, you know, people can make arguments about parents' choices and even argue against some of those arguments. But even if we took those arguments as correct and legitimate, it is still not the child's fault that they're growing up in poverty based on decisions made before they were even born. So it's cruel. It's inhumane. And I think, you know, to see the Labour Party backing the Tories on that is grim. Then we've got all policies on workers' rights. I'm really proud to stand on picket lines. With workers, Labour have criticised me before saying this is performative. And actually, they wouldn't do this because governments in waiting don't stand on picket lines. That's absurd. If you're someone who wants to run the country, I can think of very few places more important for you to be than with working people listening to their disaffection. Is that the only thing you should be doing? No, not at all. If you're just doing that, then it's performative. But that's a very basic and necessary step in order to then make policies, to then be voting based on having listened to people on the picket line. And then I couldn't answer without talking about what we're seeing in Gaza, the absolute atrocities that have been committed, where I was going to say Labour have turned their head away. But I think that's even too generous to them. We've seen in Keir Starmer, someone who has cheerlead, who has said things like Israel has the right to defend itself, whilst also talking about cutting off water and electricity. I'm pleased that the Labour Party have moved position slightly on this, but we're still nowhere where we needed to be. And meanwhile, every day that this goes on, innocent people are losing their lives. And it's really important that both the Conservatives and the Conservatives government and the Labour Party are held to account on that. People will say, what difference can a Labour opposition make? Or what difference even can the Prime Minister make? But they're not looking at their history. There have been times before where we've had these kind of incursions from the Israeli government, and then the UK have abstained, or even voted against the United Nations, or sorry, voted for a ceasefire. That resulted in America abstaining, and that resulted in Israel calling a ceasefire. The whole point of being an elected politician, the whole point of it is to use the leverage you have to put pressure on the people who make the decisions, whether that's regionally, nationally, or internationally, to make the right decisions. And I can think of very few examples more important than the life and death of what's happening in Gaza and Israel at the moment, where the Labour Party should have been there from day one, calling this Israeli government to account. Yes, making the argument about releasing the hostages. Yes, making the argument about ending the violence altogether. But, you know, even to have Sadiq Khan yesterday, And Sadiq, by the way, I'm sure we'll get into this because I work to hold Sadiq Khan accountable in the London Assembly. That's my job on some issues. He's not that bad. He's certainly better than Boris Johnson. I think there's certainly gaps in his plans. But it was really grim to see him yesterday standing against the boycott of Israeli products and goods and services. This isn't a blanket boycott. This is a targeted boycott. So this is saying, you know, if a musician or an athlete wants to represent the Israeli government, whether that's at the Olympics, whether, yes, that's at Eurovision, wherever it is, that shouldn't be allowed. And that's the exact same logic we followed with Russia and also the Green Party have a list of about 20 other countries that we call for boycotts on. in the last few years saying this is not, you know, this is not Israel being picked out or singled out. This is about standing against regimes or governments that are not holding human rights law in any way, shape or form. Amen, man. And brilliantly put. I'm glad you
Speaker 1brought that up as well, because the issue of Israel and Palestine and what is happening in Gaza right now really does demonstrate, unfortunately, the lack of difference between Labour and the Conservatives when it comes to the big issues that actually matter. And with regards to Keir Starmer, you know, it calls into question his moral compass. You know, can we trust a guy that won't even denounce what is happening? You know, how can we trust someone that can't even bring himself to acknowledge that the loss of innocent children's lives is a disgrace and we need to have a ceasefire right now? What's so difficult about saying that? So, yeah, unfortunately, you know, as you rightly mentioned, you know, since the Blair years, there is very little difference now between Labour and the Conservatives. Thankfully, that's where you guys come in now, which is why I was previously a member of Labour, you know, for most of my life until, you know, the past few years when I joined the Green Party. So even though we are living in bleak times and desperate times and a lot of people are struggling and feeling the burn, you know, harder than I've ever known in my life, there is hope because there is now, for the first time in a long time, an actual ideological alternative.
Speaker 2I realise that must be a very other obvious one too, but that's a £28bn investment in the green economy, and I'm sure we'll get on to that. I'm sure we'll get on to that. But the Labour Party, for a long time, have tried this argument, if you want green measures, you shouldn't vote green, you should vote for Labour. But then again, on the most basic of measures to invest in a Green New Deal, you know, I always thought, I didn't talk about the £28bn, this was what they were pledging, too much before they dropped it, because I always presumed there was no way they were going to drop this. I thought they were kind of creating a false drama, because £28bn isn't nearly enough. But I thought if they wind up the green environmental movement enough, that we'll start shouting £28bn and then they do it, they could proclaim themselves as the hero of the environmental movement. But to see them even drop that is pretty grim. Because, so if we take retrofitting, for instance, this is like upgrading people's homes to make sure that they're not leaking energy and that they're not cold and damp and mouldy. We have the leakiest housing stock in Europe. So we already have houses that are creating bills that are astronomical for people. And people talk about cost of living crisis, but really, this is an inequality crisis, because you have multimillionaires and billionaires doing better than they ever have before. In fact, they've often profited from the pandemic. And then you've got people who are living in these leaky homes, whose bills are going higher and higher and higher. And if you invested in retrofitting, so upgrading these homes, that's a triple win. Yes, it reduces the emissions on the planet, it reduces their bills, really important in an inequality crisis, but it also creates good green jobs that we can make sure in the public sector that are trade unionised, that can look at a different kind of society that we're building to get ready to tackle the climate crisis. Again, these arguments are not hard to make. And any future government that wants to proclaim to be progressive, or, you know, give a very kind of least care and compassion towards tackling the climate and nature emergency, should be able to put front and centre of their policies, tackling the climate crisis and the investment needed to do that at the front and centre. But instead, we have this Labour Party that say, we have to stick to our own fiscal rules. Those fiscal rules, by the way, are completely imaginary, they're completely made up by the Labour Party. And on, you know, the number one fundamental fiscal rule, I would say, is to tax the wealthiest multimillionaires and billionaires, if we tax their assets, and that's those with 10 million pounds or more in assets, just 1%, we'd be raising 10s of billion pounds a year that we could be putting straight into the green economy. But they've even ruled out wealth taxes. So anyway, I always take a pause here, because there's no words for how sick I am of the Conservative government, and how much they need to go, and we need to get rid of them. And I think it's important to acknowledge that. But I think everyone's at that point now. So I think everyone's at that point now. So I think everyone's at that point now. So I think everyone's at that point now. So I think everyone's at that point now. So I find myself sometimes talking more about the Labour Party than the Conservative Party, just purely because I take it as read that people know we need this government to go. But I don't think it's good enough to just be a little bit better than the worst ever government we've had, certainly in our lifetimes, if not in history. You've got to offer the electorate a little bit more than that, or a lot more than that. And on that, that's where the Labour Party seem to actively be inflaming tensions, and pretending to be Tory-lite as opposed to offering a real credible alternative. Will Barron:
Speaker 1100%. 100% agree with you. I'm more angry at the Labour Party than I am at the Tories, because I don't expect anything better of the Tories. But the Labour Party, they're supposed to be our party, the party of the people, you know, the party that was founded upon the trade union movement and workers' rights, the party that gave us the NHS, the party that's supposed to protect us from the interests of the elite. And to see them now completely co-opted by the interests of the 1%, and to the point where you couldn't get a rizzle of paper between them and the Tory party, just absolutely infuriates me. Will Barron: I feel let down by the party. I'm disappointed. And I'm deeply angry at the disrespect to the party's history and the principles upon which it was founded. And I wanted to ask you, how did we get here with the Labour Party? What happened? How did it go from the party of the people to Tory-lite? What's your take on how that happened? Will Barron:
Speaker 2It's a really good question. And I guess other people would probably be more qualified to answer better than I have, if they've been at the heart of the Labour Party. Certainly, Owen Jones, who, you know, recently has endorsed the Green Party alongside independents, had talked about the dishonesty of Keir Starmer's campaign. So here's a man who flew on the coattails of Jeremy Corbyn, said that Jeremy Corbyn was right to challenge anti-austerity. Keir Starmer was very kind of anti-Brexit, while that was inconvenient for Jeremy Corbyn. But then as soon as he became the leader of the Labour Party, he seems to have dropped conversations about the EU entirely. And then there's lots of other pledges, including proportional representation, where Keir Starmer was making warm noises about it. The Labour Party as a whole voted for proportional representation at their conference. And then Keir Starmer just said, "No." And I think, you know, sometimes I hear the argument, and I think, if I'm being generous, I can hear and understand this argument, that they think Keir Starmer is saying or doing whatever he needs to do or say to get rid of the Conservative government. And then once they're in power, he's going to pull all of these progressive policies out of his hat and start doing progressive things. But Preston chose that the Labour Party, whenever they get into government, govern to the right of where they campaign. So they're already campaigning in a pretty ripening space, which I think is very, very important. So I think, you know, I think it's important for the Labour Party to do what they're doing, which on some issues is to the right of the Conservative government. We can go straight back to Israel and Gaza, actually. And it's astonishing that David Cameron is in a position that's slightly more progressive than where Keir Starmer is in terms of talking about the occupation, not just on international affairs. There's other issues, too, where the cash review that was just released yesterday, you know, highly problematic things in that cash review that just feel like they've not been done in consultation with trans people. The Labour Party, came straight out the gate and said, we accept every recommendation in this report, a 400 page report in a time that I imagine they probably didn't have time to read that report. Whereas the Conservative government came out and said, we will consider this carefully. Now, that's a whole nother conversation. But just it struck me that the Conservative government were in a kind of more cautious place towards the rights of trans people and including their voices than the Labour Party were in. And so what's happened to the Labour Party? I think a lot of it is fear. I think we have an inherent fear. And I think that's what's happened to the Labour Party, inherently right wing media, which is why it's really good, James, that you're doing this podcast, and I always support independent podcasting groups like Navarro Media. And again, Owen Jones, who I think are giving people the platform to have alternative voices, where we've got to challenge the rhetoric of the Daily Mail and the Sun and Sky News that are just pumping out Murdoch's lines the entire time. And they're terrified of all of those news outlets. And I think there's something about wanting to run against the Tories, but still know that you have to deal with the culture war stuff. And in the Green Party, I would always say that you deal with the culture war stuff by being bold, by being courageous, by being valued, by following your values, by listening to people and making sure that you communicate clearly. That's how you challenge the culture war stuff. You don't challenge the culture war stuff by appeasing it, or even worse, by falling into the same traps and then making their argument for them. And I think on a lot of those issues, the Labour Party have completely lost their way. And then I think finally, there's just the point that this is a whole other story, but I think it's worth telling. So just two days ago, I was in Ealing, where the council is run by Labour there, a council leader called Peter Mason, who I've had runs in with the past publicly, particularly around the site called Warren Farm, which is a nature reserve. He was looking to de-wild it, so to destroy the nature. I called him out on it. And he sent kind of several, I would say, childish kind of tweets. Anyway, we put on lots of pressure, and they've now reversed that decision, which is really good. So that's an example of where we pushed the Labour Council into winning. And one of the arguments we made was that they were making deals with property developers, quite obviously. One was Barclay Homes, and then they were sponsoring Pride events. Peter Mason also took thousands of pounds worth to go on a holiday in Cairns. He then apologized for that and said it was a mistake, et cetera. All of these things were going on. Anyway, this is all context for what I'm about to say next. So I went to an estate that's been called the Green Quarter. The Green Quarter is housing that has been built next to contaminated landfill. The housing is largely luxury developments with a few blocks of social housing. That social housing has been put right next to the contaminated landfill. When I walked through this site with the residents, there's a very obvious smell of petrol. You can feel it in your lungs. It makes your eyes itchy. These residents time and time again have been sounding the alarm. About the fact that these property developers have just been not listening to them, and that this seems to have been done in stock with the Labour Council. The Labour Council, under the guise of saying we need to build more homes and not worrying about whether that's social housing or unaffordable luxury homes, have been pulling up these homes all over. There are air pollution monitors in that area, and they were collecting the data. They've just put in an application to build thousands more homes on the same site, and the air pollution monitors have just disappeared and gone missing. So I don't want to do weaselly words on this because I don't have the obvious evidence and proof because the air pollution monitors have gone. I don't have the contracts between the Labour Council and these housing developers. But what I would say is there's certainly other examples in other Labour councils where there are very clear links between the people making the decisions and the property developers. That can either be at the same time the decisions are made or more often than not, the councillor retires, having made years on the housing department or on the planning department, and then it's a revolving door straight into working for a property developer. So what has gone wrong with the Labour Party? I'd say it's the same with the Conservative Party. It is lack of transparency. It is lack of accountability. And it's for profit motive, where ultimately this kind of hyper-capitalist neoliberal system has meant that they are ultimately worrying about their own vested interests. And they have disgustingly built it upon the language of doing this for working people and building social housing, whereas if you want to build social housing, build social housing. But we never see social housing built. It's always just a couple of blocks that are built with other properties. And by the way, in the same project, there are facilities that are open. If you have. If you're in the luxury departments, but those same facilities aren't open to you if you're in the social housing, and this is in the same neighbourhood. This is no different to the idea of poor doors, which used to be built in social housing blocks where the expensive kind of buildings or expensive rooms would have one door. But if you're in the social housing, you'd have another door. This is something else that my colleagues in the assembly have been calling out, which is poor playgrounds, which are playgrounds that the unaffordable luxury apartment families are allowed to use. But the social housing children aren't able to use them. So I think that's a big problem. So I think that's a big problem. So I think that's a big problem. So I think that's a big problem. aren't able to use those playgrounds. That breaks my heart. The idea that there is a young person who will see a slide or a roundabout and go, mum or dad or whoever's at home, can I go play on that? No, we don't have access to that. Like, what kind of society are we building if that's the kind of society their child's growing up in? Sorry, that was a huge tangent. But the question was, what's gone wrong with the Labour Party? That's multifaceted answers.
Speaker 1Huge tangents and rants are what we're all about here, man. So go for it. No, that was awesome. I totally agree with you as well. I mean, if they want to talk about performative. Nothing's more performative than the Labour Party paying lip service to Labour values and left-wing ideas when they're actually just lining the pockets of the 1% and further enabling the complete corporate takeover of all of our hard-won assets and every facet of our daily life. And there's a guy that I had on the podcast previously called Professor Richard Wilkinson, who wrote an amazing book called The Spirit Level, who I quote quite often on the podcast because his work makes it an indisputable fact that all of the growing societal problems, that we've had in this country and that we've seen explode in the past few decades, are as a result of growing inequality that began in the 80s with the arrival of Thatcherism and Reaganism. And he proved without a shadow of a doubt that there is a direct correlation between a whole range of societal problems and the level of inequality within that society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society.
Speaker 2And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society.
Speaker 1And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society.
Speaker 2And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. And if we look at the Labour Party of today, there is absolutely zero chance that they are going to do anything to reverse that race towards an ever more unequal and unfair society. The argument always is, you know, someone works for it, not have that much money but let's let's take beyonce for example um i adore beyonce let me let me start with that don't we all lemonade is one album we've ever made um but ultimately you know she made a lot of money that she rightfully made from being incredibly talented but also there comes a point where you can't make that much money as she's made from being talented you then put that money into housing into assets and then you're making money on money for doing absolutely nothing and so the gap just gets wider and wider and wider and again this is not a knock at beyonce day but that is nothing to do with her talent or her hard work that's to do with a system that is inbuilt to widen inequality gaps and as you talked about from richard wilkinson's work that actually is bad for everyone including the super rich people because everyone profits from their profits is in their well-being rather than economically from a society that has equality at its heart because you know if we don't have a good functioning national health service and that creates the mental health crisis that we're seeing and if we have a privatized health care service that means people are ill and we saw during the pandemic if people are ill that affects everyone whether you're rich or poor if you have a police service that's not funded properly then that creates crime and crime affects rich people as well and so having an a more equal society where everyone has a stake in it and you have properly funded public services is good for everyone whether you're someone who directly uses those public services or not and i think on top of that it's about making sure we pay properly people properly so uh we were the first party i think the only party to have publicly backed trade union calls for a 15 pound per hour minimum wage and i think again that's really important in terms of people say well you know how do you afford these things well you afford these things by making sure you're prioritizing the right things and and then finally just on the cost of living prices of policy i'd say i'm proud to start with a universal basic income this is known about in wales more than almost anywhere else because the the welsh senate have given um care leavers from the age of 18 um a universal basic income for i believe 18 months and the results are starting to come out there from an amazing uh professor guy standing who's done a lot of work on this he was a former advisor to john mcdonald and definitely a very good friend of the green party and a personal friend of mine who um has been really really valuable in advising and and steering around our economic policy and but the the results are showing yes these people are less poor that's very obvious if you give them more money but i would say much more inter interestingly it's affecting things like nutrition people are eating better people are able to go into education training because they're not just worried about putting food on the table and also they're able to go into education training because they're not just worried about putting food on the table and also it's niche but i think really really important they're able to engage politically because actually to get involved in politics you have to have a bit of free time while you're doing your job and i was an actor so i was fortunate enough that you know when you're an actor in london same for lots of musicians fortunately not you james but lots of people when they're doing these you know artistic roles they're also having to do about 10 other jobs so they're a barman they're a waiter they're working in a call center and i was doing all of those jobs but the flexibility of that job those jobs meant i could also get involved in politics but if you're working nine to five job monday to saturday you probably want to rest on the sunday and lots of political action isn't necessarily happening on the sunday so people are being kept out of the political loop and being able you know being kept out of making political decisions so universal basic income would both transform people yes uh in terms of their economic situation but it would also make sure that we're enriching people's lives in all of these other ways too and i'm really proud that in london um eventually in a place called grange we're looking at getting a pilot off the ground and that's something i've been pushing hard on the london assembly line and also jarrow um in the northeast somewhere which historically has had huge deprivation and poverty and in the early 1900s uh there was a famous march march for jobs where people walked from jarrow to london to protest the government's decision so symbolically having a universal basic income pilot there is really important too um i can keep going on with this question because i guess cost of living crisis is almost everything like how do you enrich people economically is the fundamental question but i think those are kind of some of the key headline uh things oh and also i want to say that i think there's a lot of work to be done by the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the london government as well as the eighties which have fundamentally disempowered our trade unions and people need a fundamental fundamental fundamental ability to to organize in their workplace that is and should be a fundamental human right and there's been a very targeted um dismantling of this both from a conservative government but again cheered on by the labor party um which is absurd that they're called the labor party and they haven't been there to stand up for trade unions but that is very much of a heart of our party policy as well it's standing up for workers wow man well you're
Speaker 1getting me fired up just listening to you man it's like you know taxing the rich and leveling the playing field and strengthening the unions and universal basic income who what's not to love who's not going to want that you know what i mean well the corporate
Speaker 2ceos are the people who don't want it so that answers your question and that's the problem we have because they're funding the media and they're funding the tory party and frequently giving donations like private health care to west treating so it's exposing these things which again is why these podcasts are really important and then it's not just exposing them people have to vote differently we get the politics we vote for and if people want green
Speaker 1and they want a difference then they have to vote green well i had um your friend and colleague mr anthony slaughter on the podcast last year and we were talking about effective means of change i was talking about activism and protest and direct action and my general feeling of disillusionment in the electoral system and anthony said all of the above you know are essential components and tools of a democracy and progress but ultimately without systemic change real economic political regulatory and legal change can't happen unless the machinery of power changes so we can make as much noise as we want and we should but without real governmental systemic change we're going to have a long mountain to climb what are your thoughts on that do you agree with that
Speaker 2100 and shout out to anthony slaughter too i'm really proud of anthony he's the leader of the world's green party i think he's like the perfect example i often think of of someone who's so embedded in communities and doing the work and not necessarily doing it for anthony but remind me saying this in the kind of delivery or or showbiz way although i think he was a drummer in the rock band say he's a punk rock band yeah yeah yeah so actually maybe i'll take it back the show business is there but i think you know fundamentally you talk to anthony for five minutes to hear how deeply his issues of justice are within him and what a difference uh he wants to make for wales and he'll be running for the for the senate in 2026 is the next senate elections i believe and i think um national government and westminster often get the headlines and it you know it is really important that we have representation at a national level to be able to change things but also those those regional assemblies or obviously wales is a regional assembly but the assembly for wales with senate being able to make the difference there would make a huge difference and i think it's a huge difference for wales because all of these issues i'm talking about there's places like wales but also obviously the north of england and the northeast where the economic disparity is so blatant and the the gap has just got wider and wider and wider and so when boris johnson talks about leveling up don't often say this but it's one time that boris johnson was right of course every solution he had to it was only going to make things worse but the the principle of regional inequality is something we should all talk about um and we shouldn't shy away from talking about it and we shouldn't reject that that agenda we just need to be clear that the solutions they offer would make it worse but there are clear solutions to dealing with regional inequality and sorry i just i'm i'm tying myself and not say but the very last thing i want to say is this isn't saying though that london has it has it all easy and i think there's often that misconception uh you can walk down the street in london and see multi you know million million pound houses and then right in front of them you know homeless people uh again i think in london it's just even more intense that kind of that massive inequality but particularly in the south of england i think there's a lot of you know there's lots of places in this country that have been really neglected and lost and we need those voices from within them speaking out yeah you're totally right man i mean the
Speaker 1inequality is so stark now i mean you it's everywhere you can't avoid it everybody is exposed to it now and it is more pronounced in a place like london you know where you've got those two polar opposite worlds kind of slammed together on opposite sides of the street where you can have a row of high-rise banking buildings overlooking you know a real poor housing estate where people are genuinely struggling to get through the you know day to day but i'm seeing that stark divide now more and more everywhere that i go when i travel around the country i mean it's i walk the streets of cardiff or newport you know where i'm where i'm based it's just i've never seen a homeless situation so bad it's exploded beyond anything that i've ever known in my life living here you know and it's not just the mind-blowing number of people who are now living on the streets it's the extreme grimness of the situation that they're living in the desperate level of their poverty is just visceral and that's happened in the last 10 years i just do not remember it ever being like this 20 years ago and everybody feels that now you know like we all share the same high streets you know rich poor in the middle so everybody is aware of this now nobody can pretend any longer that our social situation is not as bad as it is yeah i went to visit recently and also went to port
Speaker 2talbot and just you kind of um it's just it was avoidable it's just a very obvious thing it's not like for decades people haven't been saying we need to transition we need a green transition let's create new industries let's create jobs let's make sure they unionize let's make sure people pay properly and just again from the conservatives i'm from labor there was no sense of um creating a different way or having the imagination of creativity to create a different way and they have let thousands of people down and those people are in these horrendous situations and they're not going to be able to do it and they're not going to be able to do it and they're not going to be able to do it and so i went also to to swansea and visited there um a baby bank um and a warm bag and just you know amazing work that people in the community are doing where people are homeless or they've got homes but they can't afford to heat them so people are gathering in the day and they're also creating social space and these people running these spaces are incredible and i there's there are no words i have for how much love i have for the work they do day in day out and by the way you know i'm an elected politician but i put the work they're doing so far above what any politician is doing because it's just grounded in the work and it's serving the community every single day but they absolutely shouldn't be having to do that and every day that they're doing it is a failure of politics to be able to serve to serve them so it's not discounting what they're doing they're filling a gap that badly needs filling but ultimately if we keep filling those gaps and if we keep relying on charity and community people to do it that furthers the austerity agenda because it just requires on the kindness of people and kindness will only break resentment in the long run when people can't afford to give kindness on their behalf or don't have time to give kindness so again that's a shout out for everything they're doing and we need to and i'm sure they would agree create a space where they're no longer needed to do those things because i'm sure they don't even want to be doing them they'd rather be giving love and compassion to creating art or to create nice things and positivity not to just you
Speaker 1know making people survive hour to hour yeah well put well moving on to a different topic what about the nhs the other biggie you know what would the green party policy be with regards to our beloved
Speaker 2national health service yeah so the nhs is in a really bad way um and you know it sounds sweet but the very first obvious thing is you need to fund it and like people will go yeah i can imagine if it's a conservative politician on this this call which gladly there isn't but if there was they'd be going we keep throwing money at them and it's inefficient and i think there is some truth to that as in there are certainly ways that the nhs could be operating in a more democratic uh more service-led way and i'll talk about those in a moment but that argument should never be put in front of the funding argument if you don't fund things properly then of course they're going to break down of course staff are going to be resentful of course people who use the nhs are going to feel like they're not getting a good service and i shouldn't speak for everyone by the way i've certainly used the nhs recently and had a really good service so it's not to say this is every single person's experience but the stats on waiting lists and on waiting times for treatment are pretty stark and and are failing now we know this has been managed because i'm from a conservative government and the labour party and the tony blair through pfi contracts who have never believed in a national health service so it's been in their interest to run it down i won't tangent there but the bbc being a similar thing to where they've created such a poor poor environment around the bbc that i find myself rallying against the bbc and complaining about the bbc while still absolutely believing in the need for a public state broadcaster and this is what happens when they damage these institutions so badly that people then end up turning against the institution as opposed to the people running the institution badly and the bad decisions while still actually protecting the nhs and still protecting um the bbc um i also um it's a tangent but i think it's an important one my partner uh richie works in palliative care and the fact that um the majority of hospices where people are going in their very illest state where they're literally about to die are being run off charity and private donations rather than from a national health care service is a massive indictment and failure of how our services are running and i met with the um chair of the bma recently at the british medical association and spoke to him about palliative care and it's something that they've just done a report on recently i'm only putting it out there because obviously i'm biased because of what my partner does but i do feel like there's not often a conversation about death in society and also the need for dignified dying and assisted dying and i think all those conversations are starting to bubble up to the surface and i think that's a really healthy thing despite the toxic city of our politics at the moment because i think we need to have conversations about how people can can be cared for and and their last few days weeks um back to the point though um on the nhs um where it clearly cannot go is where street singh seems to be pushing it with with every kind of sentence he pushes which is towards a privatized system or privatization through the back door we should be really proud of our national health care service and i went to see nai recently the national theater playbill about nai bevan who created the health service and i think we need to get back to those fundamental principles about a service that is free of the point of need and free of the point of view um and that cannot be up for negotiation i think what can be up for negotiation or needs to at least be discussed about with a national conversation is is it the best use of gp's time to be doing business and accounts and from the gps that i hear from they don't think that's a good use of their time they feel like they're rushed um from the decisions that they're made uh that they're not able to um have those patient-centered conversations so very often it's about just diagnosing the problem as quickly as possible which is what happens when you incentivize targets and incentivize getting people through the door as opposed to having those holistic conversations and joining up the mental health crisis that we have with people's physical pain and being able to have those conversations and then finally it's slightly off the question but i think it's important i met with um an organization recently called debt relief advice so this links in with the cost of living crisis slightly and they're again brain organization they're there when people have got themselves into horrendous debt or any debt at all and just want to talk about how they manage that debt and not make it worse and who do they pay first etc and they've started to create kiosks and where people can go to um that they would like to be in shopping centers where someone can go into this kiosk if they're worried and there will be a counselor there on the other end there will be debt relief advice on there on the other end there'll be gambling advice there on the other end there'll be mental health support there on the other end and i could think of lots of other services that could be there on the other end so you're starting to join the dots together now just a caveat in here my slight kind of skepticism is i think people need more human contact and need more to be in a space with a human being so i kind of you know i'm a little bit nervous about removing human beings and replacing them with a with a screen where you get to talk to another person but i do think there is something to be said for the efficiency of someone being able to contact all of these people who would be very difficult in the same space and be able to be where someone might be which is a shopping center so i don't think it should be a replacement for human for human contact and those services but i do think there's something really important and this comes back to the nhs question about being in the spaces where people aren't necessarily looking for that help um they might be ill they might not go to a hospital or to their doctor for whatever reason but they might see in the shopping center or a center a kind of space they can go and know that it's a safe space where they can reach help i just think that that's really important because the people who need the most help my experience from going around to communities are often the people who seize up when i come in the room because they don't want to talk to a politician they don't want to talk i wouldn't consider myself establishment particularly about anyone connected or with any formal institution they worry about to punish them or sanction them now there's ways i found around that which is to build a rapport and to build a connection and just you know think about how i approach that situation but i think about the people who wouldn't even be in the situation where i am to even have that first point of contact and i think there's so many people being being left behind that we've got to get to them the phrase is often used it's hard to reach and i hate that phrase because no one's hard to reach it's about how you do it love it yeah i totally
Speaker 1agree again i mean i'm finding it hard to find anything to disagree with you about to be honest um but i'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate because i think another massive issue of concern for many people is the subject of immigration and we run the risk as lefties of being seen as being soft on this issue and you know it's been a bunch of like woke naive wishy-washy hippy dippy lefty snowflakes and the subject of immigration is already being used as a kind of electoral battleground you know and i think it's a deal breaker issue as well that will sway many people and unfortunately sway them towards policies that would inevitably be detrimental to their broader interests so i'd love to know what the green party's policy would be on the subject
Speaker 2of immigration this um so i'm going to start by linking this directly to the nhs that people are worried about seeing a gp or getting a dentist appointment and they're right they should be worried about those things because they're not being funded properly but they're not being funded properly because of years of austerity and the labour party refusing to challenge austerity they're not not being funded properly because of migrants refugees asylum seekers these are some of the most vulnerable people in our society also some of the most resilient if you've come across or a lorry um you've clearly shown incredible resilience but these people absolutely deserve every ounce of compassion we have and not just compassion but ultimately the policies and the support that that put them in place i was um just so i talk about immigration all the time with them are very pro-migrant um policies and you know i don't think migration is something that should just be tolerated i think it's something that should be celebrated um this is something i say about 20 times a week so i'm very used to saying this but the reason why i paused just then is i was speaking to someone just a couple of days ago um who um shaved my beard actually with my barber um who is a migrant and he talked to me i've known him for a while and we talked about lots of things about politics but it's the first time he opened up to talk about his journey and i'm not going to give any specifics and just to keep his anonymity but talking about crossing the borders and the journey that he made and just went into intense graphic detail about what it was to make that journey and i just um i talk about migration all the time and i'm not going to go into and it's something that that i feel very very instinctively that i want to do everything i can to support people and treat them as human beings and it's still slightly abstract until you're with someone and you're looking them in the eyes and you see their humanity and you know i meet asylum seekers and refugees and migrants fairly commonly when they go on protests or rallies or speak with them on panels um but that's in a very particular context and it was just quite something for someone i've known for such a long time to then open up in that way that that's really affected me and has reaffirmed my kind of desire and want to talk about this as much as possible because you know to come back to beginning people do have legitimate fears about infrastructure about housing about nhs but this is in no way problems of migration and i also think i sometimes see politicians um be compassionate towards refugees and asylum seekers and that's important i'm pleased they're doing it but they really separate them from migrants and yes they are separate to an economic migrant but i still think we should be making the same argument about an economic migrant if you are someone who is looking for a better life who has grown up in poverty or a place where you don't feel like you have a chance then the only reason why our country would decide that you're not welcome here to contribute to our tax system to our businesses to our culture is because of some petty-minded racism and i think it needs to be called out as racism because that's exactly what it is and when we see people open up their arms to ukrainian refugees which we absolutely should do and this is nothing against the ukrainians they're suffering a horrendous incursion we should do everything we can to defend them and particularly uh see their humanity and giving them homes and i'm pleased people have done that but where is that same compassion for syrians for yemeni people for somalians for people suffering in sudan through this absolutely horrendous crisis um and i'm led to it can only be called racism and i don't know what i don't know so it might be other things and then i'm open to having that conversation but i've never yet heard an argument against someone's uh fleeing from war from suffering from persecution and or running away from economic poverty or lack of feeling like they have a future and wanting to make a better life and i don't think the restrictions to a better life should be where you happen to have been born um should there you know is that a complicated question around migration i i was about to say yes it is but i don't even think it's that complicated we are going to get migrants frankly whether we want them or not um because of the climate crisis we're already seeing places that are uninhabitable where it's getting hotter uh syria the civil war of course is primarily because of a a brutal dictator but it's also often missed that brutal dictator is able to be so brutal because of an increasing lack of resources of scarcity of food and water and we know that those conditions are going to happen across the world and also frankly here in the uk too um and so we need to have those very difficult conversations about scarcity of resources and how we find the compassion to do that in that way um the just epilogue i want to put to this though is i sometimes hear and i'm hearing it less and less which is good that people you know would then go but you're a green and you support migration but what about overpopulation and that's an argument that's made and it often kind of verges into what i would describe as eco-fascism this idea that you know uh they start talking about minority communities who have lots of children or or other countries but we need to be really clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution we're a country that benefited from empire and colonialism and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution
Speaker 1and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and we need to be clear that we are a country that benefited from the industrial revolution and thank you as well for uh just calling this out for what it really is all about and thank you as well for uh just calling this out for what it really is all about and thank you as well for uh just calling this out for what it really is all about at its core at its core at its core because yeah we've all seen a vastly because yeah we've all seen a vastly because yeah we've all seen a vastly different attitude to ukrainian refugees different attitude to ukrainian refugees different attitude to ukrainian refugees than those people who are fleeing syria than those people who are fleeing syria than those people who are fleeing syria or afghanistan or iraq or afghanistan or iraq or afghanistan or iraq and i can only imagine why that might be and i can only imagine why that might be and i can only imagine why that might be but there's an interesting irony to that but there's an interesting irony to that but there's an interesting irony to that i mean if you are really concerned about i mean if you are really concerned about i mean if you are really concerned about immigration for whatever reason then it immigration for whatever reason then it immigration for whatever reason then it makes more sense to support the sort of makes more sense to support the sort of makes more sense to support the sort of things that you're talking about as part things that you're talking about as part things that you're talking about as part of the green party policy of the green party policy of the green party policy such as let's work to reverse the such as let's work to reverse the such as let's work to reverse the climate crisis which is only going to climate crisis which is only going to climate crisis which is only going to exacerbate mass migration and also exacerbate mass migration and also exacerbate mass migration and also hey let's stop arming and training and hey let's stop arming and training and hey let's stop arming and training and supporting foreign dictatorships because supporting foreign dictatorships because supporting foreign dictatorships because it's good for our oil industries and it's good for our oil industries and it's good for our oil industries and then maybe just maybe people wouldn't then maybe just maybe people wouldn't then maybe just maybe people wouldn't want to flee their homeland that they want to flee their homeland that they want to flee their homeland that they know and love in the first place so yeah know and love in the first place so yeah know and love in the first place so yeah i completely agree with you on all of i completely agree with you on all of i completely agree with you on all of that man
Speaker 2that man that man completely untrue and that's why i'm completely untrue and that's why i'm completely untrue and that's why i'm taking it on taking it on taking it on very directly what we actually oppose is very directly what we actually oppose is very directly what we actually oppose is housing on greenbelt so if you've got housing on greenbelt so if you've got housing on greenbelt so if you've got land that's there for biodiversity land that's there for biodiversity land that's there for biodiversity whether it's there for um wildlife and whether it's there for um wildlife and whether it's there for um wildlife and species species species then that is obviously not the first then that is obviously not the first then that is obviously not the first place you go place you go place you go to build housing and i don't think that to build housing and i don't think that that should be controversial it's only that should be controversial it's only that should be controversial it's only been made contentious been made contentious been made contentious because very powerful again property because very powerful again property because very powerful again property developers invested interest developers invested interest developers invested interest has started to try and paint this idea has started to try and paint this idea has started to try and paint this idea that that's a problem that that's a problem that that's a problem if we had no other places to build if we had no other places to build if we had no other places to build houses if there was no brownfield sites houses if there was no brownfield sites houses if there was no brownfield sites if there was no empty buildings and if there was no empty buildings and if there was no empty buildings and empty properties and people taking over with lots of homes, then there would be a different conversation to have about the Greenbelt. I'm not saying for a second that I would then go, yes, let's build on the Greenbelt. I would certainly be willing more to have that conversation and to work out where we need to build those houses. The evidence is very, very clear, though, that if you add up all the brownfield sites, all the sites in London, for instance, the TfL and that aren't being used, you'd have a constituency the size of Camden. CPRE, the Campaign for All England, have done lots of work around the hundreds of thousands of buildings that are completely empty all across the UK and aren't being used at all. And actually, you could retrofit and bring these homes back into use. So anyway, the reason why I'm linking this to the migration question is the argument is always, we're a small island. We don't have places to put people. We have masses of empty homes, masses of places. And is this an argument to say, yes, let's have mass migration and bring everyone in? Not necessarily. I'm not arguing for more migration. I'm just arguing the point that when people say... we can't handle the migration that we've got is an absolute nonsense argument. And it's linked to the same nonsense argument that you need to build on the green belt to tackle the climate crisis. You absolutely don't. We're in a nature and ecological emergency. You can both protect green space, you can protect biodiversity, and you can have the houses that people need. This does not have to be a trade-off, and it's been created as a trade-off because it's the interest of property developers to build on that green space because they can charge more for it. The idea that a family who are homeless, who are living on social housing... again... who are going to be able to live in this beautiful space that's been created on the green belt is clearly nonsense and a completely disingenuous argument.
Speaker 1100%. Yeah, I totally agree. Well, as we come towards the end of the time that I've got you for today, I'm going to try and summarise a little bit because we've covered a lot of ground here in this conversation. So would I be right in saying that we know all the answers to these problems and probably have done for quite some time now, whether it's how to fix the NHS, how to protect workers' rights, how to fix the housing and the homeless crisis. I'm going to start off by saying that we've got the answers already. They're quite well known. We just don't have the political will from any of the mainstream parties to actually implement any of this stuff. And is it also fair to say that by addressing the urgent climate crisis, which will affect absolutely all of us regardless of where your politics lie, that the things that we're going to have to implement in order to address that urgent existential crisis will also inevitably by their very nature set off a climate crisis? Am I kind of in the right ballpark there?
Speaker 2I mean, you summed it up beautifully. I guess all I'd power it back really is a very quick thought experiment. So suppose it's the 1960s again. And for some reason, in this version of reality, we don't know about the climate crisis. We are living through a society where there's a lot of inequality, but we elect different governments and actually through the 70s, 80s, 90s, and now in 2024, we have an amazing government. We have an incredibly equal society. Everyone is happy. Everyone is being looked after. and people don't have a lot to complain about. And then suddenly we discover the climate crisis. And as a politician, they would then have to come forward and say, this is incredibly difficult, but everything needs to change. That would be so impossible to sell and to get people to vote for, because you would be talking about changing an absolute perfect society to a different society because of the climate. We are not in that situation. We are in a situation where our society is fundamentally broken and we need to tackle the climate crisis. We can change everything to have a more equal society where people feel more valued, where they have money in their pockets, food in their plates. They have heat in their homes and they have lives lived with purpose. And we can tackle the climate crisis at the same time. This is not a hard sell. People just need to vote for it. And in fact, in the last four years, the Green Party have over quadrupled the number of councillors at the local level. And I think that's because the message is getting through. What we need to now do is take that to the national level and make sure we get more green MPs.
Speaker 1Brilliantly put. Yeah. And I think that's a perfect place for us to park up. What do you want to tell people who've listened to this conversation to do next? Where can they go? What can they do to help get involved?
Speaker 2I mean, the most obvious thing is to join the Green Party. So that is greenparty.org.uk forward slash join greenparty.org.uk forward slash join. If you're not yet ready to join a political party, and I've spoken to lots of people who, for instance, were very supportive of Jeremy Corbyn, feel very burnt over that and say, I love what the Green Party are saying. But I'm just not ready to join a political party at the moment. We also have a supporters network. So you can go to that on the same join page. What I would say, though, is that this is an argument I've made to lots of people in Labour and lots of people have eventually come around to the argument that even if you supported Jeremy Corbyn and you're kind of hoping that the Labour Party after Keir Starmer will go back to a left wing party, Keir Starmer has fundamentally dismantled the mechanisms that were in place to allow Jeremy Corbyn to even ever have happened. What I would say, though, is that this is an argument I've made to lots of people in Labour and lots of people have eventually come around to the argument that even if you supported Jeremy Corbyn and you're kind of hoping that the Labour Party after Keir Starmer will go back to a left wing party, Keir Starmer has fundamentally dismantled the mechanisms that were in place to allow Jeremy Corbyn and you're kind of hoping that the Labour Party after Keir Starmer will go back to a left wing party.
Speaker 1And what a time to join as well and to get involved. There's a real zeitgeist happening right now, man. And God knows we could all do with some hope right now. And the Greens are really the only party that are providing any tangible, real hope in this upcoming election. So the choice is not just between Labour and the Tories, guys. There's another real alternative now. So please get involved. The guys in Green would love to have you on board. And God knows we need all the help we can get right now if we are going to wrestle the bad guys. Thank you so much for everything you're doing. I know how hard you're working and I know how much this means to you and I know how genuine and sincere you are about these issues. I wish you and everybody else in the party the best of luck for the upcoming election on July the 4th. The future is green. I know it. The times they are are changing. And whichever way it goes down, we are going to be sending a massive message to Labour that they have got to get their shit together. So head on over to greenparty.org.uk. Follow the party at The Green Party on Twitter and Instagram. And you can follow Zach Polanski personally on his personal Twitter at Zach Polanski. Zach, thanks so much for giving us your time today. This has been a fascinating conversation. I wish you nothing but the best. And we'll be rooting for you, man.
Speaker 2I really appreciate the platform and lovely to e-meet you. Hopefully we'll meet in real life or one day soon.
Speaker 1That'd be great. Yeah, 100%. My best wishes, bro. And thanks again for coming on. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2Amazing. Thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it.
Speaker 1Thank you, Zach. You too. See you, bro. Take care. And Wales, what a dude. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I sure did. And if you were on the fence about The Green Party or you're not sure which way to vote, then I really hope that that cleared up a lot of the misconceptions for you and has made you think that possibly voting green could be the way for you to go. There are loads of ways you can get involved. If you want to, you go to greenparty.org.uk. There are loads of campaigns you can get involved in and loads of things you can do to help the guys with their election campaign as we roll on for the next few weeks. You can also become a member like I am, or you can join the Green Party. I think the next few weeks are going to be a real exciting time for the Greens, and I think that they're just going to grow and grow and grow. Labour are dead in the water, and they shot themselves in the back. Tories, we all just hate them. So simple as. The times are too desperate for us to hide our affiliations, man. I wear my colours on my sleeve, and my sleeves are green. So if you care about your community, if you care about your loved ones, if you care about the society around you, if you care about the planet that we all live on, there's only one party that's going to represent you, man. And that's the Green Party. So let that known on July the 4th when you go to the ballot box. Show me some love, man. I'll be back next week with another awesome guest. So stay tuned. Have an awesome week. Take care of yourselves. I'm off to nurse my hangover. Love you loads. Vote Green.
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