#64. Studio Casually: Permission to Quit

Kate is the owner of Studio Casually, operating multiple photo and event studio spaces in San Diego. Now, 29, she started the business over three years ago after building an unconventional career path, graduating high school at 17 with an associate's degree, working various jobs while teaching herself marketing and photography and eventually transitioning to full-time freelance work before opening her studios. In this conversation, Kate shares guidance on entrepreneurship, including how to take calculated risks, the importance of the people you surround yourself with, and why she avoids studying competitors to maintain her creative vision. She shares insight into the realities of self-funding a business, including the personal sacrifices and why she intentionally built her business to operate independently of her personal brand. Kate also discusses knowing when to quit versus when to push through, moving past the career of judgment and finding fulfillment and being part of her client's stories and business beginnings. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Welcome to Passion Project, ending. Hello. Hello. Yes. Thank you for letting me interview you. So to start, I would love to ask you about what you were doing before you were doing what you do now, and I wrote down what were you doing before managing this space, but I realized that I might not understand all that you do now, so yeah, I feel like I don't, sometimes. So it's a lot. I think I'm spread across whenever someone asks like what I do now, I always say I'm like I'm a photographer first, and then I own studio spaces. I own a couple photo and event spaces is usually like my quick short spiel. So before I got into running studio casually, I have two locations now. I opened them three years ago, but before that, I was freelancing as a photographer, which is still what I do. So that's like still a bulk of what I do. I like to say that I'm a photographer first, because I think it's not really realistic at this point when I say that, but it in my heart it is. So I think I'm like, I think photography is mainly what I do, and what I like to prioritize, but I think the studio's obviously take up so much more of my time realistically and logistically in managing them and running them. Obviously, I have a team that helps, but the kind of beginning stages they just take up way more. In a perfect world, I would kind of be doing 50/50 real half my time is split managing the studios and the other half is split with like my photography work, but yeah, that's what I do. Now, how far back do you want to go pre, pre studio? Okay. Maybe like, like before I worked for myself, yeah, definitely before you worked for yourself, if you went to school, what did you study, and then maybe even like, what do you think you kind of your background from like, even growing up kind of signal to like what you do now or prioritize into it, like what brought you here. Yeah. I think when I look back, and I say this all the time, when I look back at like looking at what I do now in every facet, so I think there's a lot of little titles that I hold nowadays. I feel like looking back, I'm like, oh, every, I'm so doing what I meant to be doing, because I feel like all of my jobs in every little piece of what I used to, like points to what I'm doing now, I'm like, oh, just make so much sense. It's kind of like, kismet in a way that I will put together sometimes and whenever I'm like, I feel like, is this what I should be doing? I feel like I've had a lot of roadblocks this year. It's been a very hard year for me, for my business across the board. And I think every time I'm like, is this like what I want to do with my life? I'm questioning it. I'm like, no, everything makes sense. Like when I look back at it, everything points to what I'm doing, which I think is kind of, which is very helpful to me when I look at it. But I didn't go to college. I technically, I did it two years, I guess technically, but I was in high schools. I was dual enrolled. When I was in junior, senior year, I was at the community college, so I graduated high school with my associates, but I always say I didn't go to college because it didn't do anything for me. I don't think that advanced me in any way, shape, or form in anything that I did. But I technically have my associates. I went to the community college in my junior year of high school, so I wasn't at my high school. But I think because I did that, I graduated, I was 17 because I'm a November baby. So I kind of started early and my mom always was like, oh, you'll get held back at some point. And then I just didn't. And so I graduated at 17 and I had my associates. And so then the next step would be to go to like a four year to finish my bachelor's. But I think at 17, I was like, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. And now the two years of college, where you usually kind of like figure that out, we're already done. So I was like, well, getting alone, like taking a loan out for school to go to a four year, to finish. She had my bachelor's in like, I have no idea what I would want to pursue. Just didn't make sense at the time. And I think there was a lot of pressure to go from everybody. I think that was kind of the beginning where I think there was a good phase of people starting to not go to college. But at the time, I feel like none of my -- all of my peers went to school. There was nobody in my class who didn't go to college. I think besides me and maybe one other person. And so I think I was just like, well, I'm kind of technically, I guess, already ahead of the game. So I'll just work. I was working. I had like two to part time jobs. I was like, I want to move out of my parents. And so I did that. And so I was just kind of working random jobs along the way. And then I ended up kind of deciding at some point. I was like, maybe I want to pursue marketing and like communications was where my brain was at. And so I ended up getting a job at a coffee shop. That was like a barista slash marketing intern, which I brought in interns this year. And it was very much like how I viewed the interns that I brought on this year at the studio. In the way that the gal that ran the business was very -- she was like, whatever you want to put on your resume in terms of marketing, she owned like a coffee shop. So she's like, I do everything myself, obviously. And now I'm like, yeah, I get it. And so she was like, well, whatever you want to put on your resume, like how can I teach you that? How can you do that? Let's like work on that. And so this is kind of the time when businesses were just starting to be on social media. And so that transition was happening. And so I was helping with social media for her business, which was just more -- there was a little bit more new to like businesses being active on Instagram and stuff like that. Not just people posting whatever. People are monetizing Instagram a little bit more at that time. And so I started doing that and then ended up transitioning into another job after that. But when I look back, I'm like, that one is so like fond and special to me because I think it really helped me from a resume perspective because I didn't have a school or like a degree to lean on to be like, oh, I know marketing because I went to school for it or whatever. And so I think I got some there. And then kind of did similar in my next job where they -- their social media was really bad. And so I was like, can I help do this? I just worked in the store. I was like a bridal stylist. And I was like, can I help -- can I like take the pictures like that? Like, can I take the pictures? And so I'd always kind of done photo stuff on the side. So then I started doing like weekly photo shoots for the brand or the business. And so we would do that and then post them on Instagram. And so I kind of like built that on the resume a little bit. So I was kind of like getting creative in the technically non-marketing related jobs. They were just like retail or a pre-star or whatever. I kind of was like, well, how else can I -- how else am I going to build my resume? I don't know. And so I just would be like, hey, I can do this. Well, you let me do it. And they're like, okay. So that was kind of how that transitioned. And then after that, I ended up getting a job in tech, which was a big game changer for me too. So I was working at Squarespace. And I got a job there. And then that's really when I -- I stayed there for a couple years and moved to San Diego from there looking to get a job in marketing. So I landed an agency job here before I moved. So that was six and a half years ago. So it was 2019. It's like six months before COVID hit. I moved, started a marketing job. And then very quickly was like, I don't like an agency environment. This is not for me. And so I started freelancing on the side. And that is really where everything kind of shifted for me. And so I took on a freelancing job on the side that I got. And I was -- I think I was her creative doctor, technically. And then that turned into a full-time opportunity. So she was like, hey, do you want to just be like -- technically, I was still freelance, but I was working like almost 40 hours for her. And the pricing in my salary was like doubled. I was like, this is just a no-brainer. Why would I say this agency job that I don't like? And so jumped basically full-time freelance from there and then built on more clients from there. And only when I started freelancing, I was in the marketing space and social media space. That's mainly what I was doing, because that's what I was doing my job prior to going freelance. And then I ended up transitioning back into visuals. I had always done photo stuff kind of on the side or whatever. And I ran across the job and like a job posting on Upwork. I used to get a ton of work on Upwork. I don't as much anymore, but back in 2020, Upwork was it for me. I got so much work from there. And so I ended up running across this job. There was like for a skincare company, they were looking for a product photographer. And I was like -- and the budget was 10K. I was like, oh, that's crazy. In my head, I was like -- I could probably do that. I could figure that out. Sure. And so I sent a proposal and ended up getting the job. And then it ended up like doubling. It was like a massive job that I'm like -- I'm looking back. I shot on my like $500 camera. And like -- I look back and like that was crazy. And I -- from that moment, I got that job. And I was like, oh, my God, why would I ever do social media anymore? This is so stupid. I was like -- I was over the marketing side of things. I was like, I just want to do visuals. I didn't know idea. In my head, I think I had like a limiting belief that I was like, oh, only the best of the best people are like able to shoot for like, businesses, brands, whatever. Because that's mainly the photography that I do. I don't really do portraits. I do every now and then. But mainly the bulk of my business is shooting for brands. And I got that gig and I was like, wait a second. This fully -- just like blew my mind. I had no idea that that was even an option for me. And I was like, that's so creative. That's so fun. It's different every time because I didn't like shooting weddings. I knew I didn't want to do that, which is why I never pursued photography full-time because I just didn't think that it was an option outside of like shooting weddings or like a ton of family photos. And I'm just like, it's not for me. It's not my thing. I'll do it, but I don't like doing it full-time. When I get to do it now, it's really fun and special because it's like a treat that I don't do it that often. But yeah. And so I kind of saw that transition. I was like, this just makes so much more sense. Why -- how could I have not thought of this sooner? It was like very much like mind-blowing. And then I was like, I'm fully doing this. And I kind of like phased out all my social media clients and like fully dove into just doing photo work. And then I like truly haven't gone back since. So that was like the bulk of my business. I was doing that full-time for a couple years before the studio was kind of like a thought, just like freelancing. And then I was working out of my apartment. And I lived in a loft downtown. And so I had a studio like set up in my place. And then I was having like models over and would like shoot and do all of that. And then I very after probably like a year or so of doing that, I was like, I think I need separation of church and state. Like this is too much for me. I was like, I have a dog. I had a boyfriend at the time. I just was like, I need some separation. And so I ended up, I was like, well, what if I got a studio space? And then I was like, I could rent it out. That feels like a natural progression of like another way to make income. I think I'm always kind of thinking of like, how else can you diversify the way your money comes in? And I think I think about that a lot in terms of when people talk about like job security and like entrepreneurship or freelancing being like turbulent and not very secure. I think a lot of people like to stick to a traditional 9 to 5 because it holds, it quote unquote, that level of security. But I think the more that you diversify where your money comes from and the clients that you have, it feels, you can feel more secure than a 9 to 5 because you can get laid off from a 9 to 5 at any time. And you can get laid off from a freelancing again any time. And I've learned that the hard way as well. But when you have multiple clients, the hit doesn't hurt as much versus like, if you get laid off from a 9 to 5, obviously you're like, that was my only job for most people, right? And so, yeah, so I think in my head, I was like, hey, how else can I diversify like where I'm getting money? How else can I grow what I'm doing, build what I'm doing? And so a studio kind of just felt like the next step. I love running a business. I like the like back end side of it. I think I'm very much in doing photo stuff. It's a very creative job. And I think I like getting to have the creative outside. And I also, I think the studio brings a lot of the business operations and like entrepreneurship side that I get from running a photography business, obviously. But I think more so in running these spaces physically. Yeah, and so I basically looked at opening one, opened one. And then it very quickly turned into like, this is not a side hustle by any means at all. This is very much like a full hustle. And very quickly took up a lot of my time and still does. But I think that was kind of the progression there. And then it grew very quickly opened up. I opened up three and nine months, which was, I don't recommend to anybody to ever do that. I am like, why did I do that to myself? And so then I went back down to two, which one was always meant to be temporary. So that was great. And so now I'm just a two, which is a lot more sustainable kind of, but yeah, that's my like not so short version of like there to now and all kind of the little parts along the way. But yeah, that's great. I mean, yeah, I don't know how that can be shortened. 'Cause like obviously the little pieces all matter, you know? Yeah. But yeah, okay, thank you for giving like an in-depth background. That's definitely good to know going into questions to ask. And thank you also for sharing the bit about like how having multiple clients can feel more secure than a nine to five. 'Cause I would definitely agree. I think having the ability to make money out of a nine to five and knowing how is definitely not super intuitive if you've never done it before. And it's really valuable to have that skill. So yeah, I can imagine that that's lovely. So could you talk a little bit about the process of opening up this space or any studio space and like what went into that. And like if there was any risk involved. And yeah, just what it's like like managing a space and how you learned to do that. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm very big on like calculated risk. And so I think like I am somebody who would never quit my job without having a job lined up already. That is like the way that I function. And so I think when I was looking into it kind of doing the math of you know, okay, how much is it gonna cost? How much am I gonna rent it out for? How much money do I need to spend to get it going realistically? How often does it need to be rented for just the least to be covered? It was kind of what I was thinking. 'Cause I think originally in my head. I was like, yeah, just be kind of nice. Like if I just paid the, it just covered the rent then I get to use a studio for free. That was really the original thought in my head. And then as I was building it, I was really building it with outside of just myself. I knew how I needed a studio and the things that I would want and use. But then I was like, well, if I'm gonna put in all this money and time and energy, why not like fully send it and make it into like a proper business? And so that was really the way once I got the space and saw it. I was like, yeah, this is a lot beyond just me. If I just needed a studio space for myself, I could have gotten something a lot smaller and done things a lot differently, right? But I think in my head I was like, yeah, I think this could be something a lot bigger than just something for me to use for free. That's kind of like silly. And so once I was looking at it through that lens and I was really considering and touring spaces and seeing what was available, I think that played a big part. And then I didn't have any investors. I didn't have any financial help. I didn't take out alone besides I put stuff on my credit card and like my savings account. Like that was really it. So it was all like fully funded, like self-funded, which I am very glad that I did in hindsight. I think, I mean, it's a hit and a miss. I think it's one of those where there's a lot of personal sacrifice when you're self-funding. And so I'm like, yeah, have I been on like a nice vacation in the last three years? No. And that's just how it is. Have I had a lot of time off in the last three years? No. And so like, I think that's, it's all sacrifice. And so it's, to me, I opted to start and invest in the way that I did very strategically to ideally have a better result later on. So I'm like, yeah, when I hit that four or five year, I make it to year four or five, a lot of businesses don't. And so I'm just past three years. And so I think to me, when I was looking at it, everything I was doing was like long-term gain. I'm like, I'm willing to sacrifice my own comforts, wants, whatever to build this thing that I know that it can be. And so that I think has been like the hardest part. And now that I feel it probably more so the last year, like six months, is I'm like, yeah, the personal sacrifice is starting to get a little tiring. I'm kind of getting tired. And so I think knowing that I'm like, yeah, and it's, I've been able to grow and expand and have more than one location and invest in a photo booth or whatever, because I took all of those personal sacrifices. And so what is nice about not having investors and self-funding is you don't have anybody else telling you what to do. And we're how to spend your money or whatever. And so I don't really have any outside noise. I'm very much making the decisions that I think are best, which could be good for some, could be bad for some. I think some work better. Having more of a sounding board and some don't. I think I'm very much in like, I have a vision. I know what I'm like, what I want to do. I'm going to like make it happen. And so I think getting to make those decisions myself has been nice. But obviously I've had to like, had a lot of sacrifices along the way to be able to do that. But yeah, I think like when I was looking at spaces, initially I kind of had a list of, I knew what my non-negotiables were and my first space, which I don't have anymore, we relocated. But my first one that I opened, I spent way too much money on the build. And I did it all myself, which doesn't make sense I spent that much money on the build. But like I had a lot of renovations that I needed to do. I ripped out an office, which I did not do myself. I did hire. That's the one thing I've ever hired contractors to do was rip out an office. But everything else I did myself. But like the whole place was teal and office had to go. And I like re-did the entire kitchen. And so I think there was a lot involved in all of those processes. And I'm like, yeah, if I went back now, knowing what I know now, I would do things a lot differently. And I did do differently. When I got this space, I didn't need to do as much. And so I think it's kind of a matter of, you factor in how much am I going to pay on this lease every month versus, you know, and what I know it can be versus if you get something a little bit more built out, your lease is going to be higher. So kind of factored all of that in. But yeah, I think I went into viewing the spaces with my own. I knew some non-negotiables in my head of what I needed. And I remember when I showed my like people in my life, I was like, this is a space I'm looking at. They're like, what is that? Because we really like couldn't see it. I'm like, in my head, I could see it. I was like, yeah, we're going to rip this office out. And then the light's going to be way brighter because that's not going to be in the way. And then once you get rid of the blue, it's also going to be brighter. They're like, that place is dark and ugly. And they just like didn't see it. And then once it was done, they're like, I get it now. And so I think like, which I'm very big on being mindful of like who you take advice from and who you, I don't think I'm definitely not a move in silence kind of person. I think it's dangerous to move too quietly. I think you, it's hard because you don't have support and you don't have, I don't know. Like I think it's, it's really easy to push things off and like actually never accomplish what you want to accomplish when you're like being quiet about it. And I think it's like more fun and interesting to be like loud about the things that you like do wrong. But yeah, I remember like showing people and they're like, what is this? And I was like, oh, I'm so glad that I'm very like steadfast in my feelings. I think otherwise I've been like, maybe I shouldn't, like maybe that isn't the right place. And it ended up working out great. So yeah, I think being careful of who you choose to listen to is really important, because I think a lot of people in my life didn't understand what I was trying to do. I know like my family was like, okay, like a studio you rented, I don't understand. And so it took them a while to like understand the business model in general. But yeah, I think it was just a lot of like, I knew that I had a need. I did a lot of market research beforehand, I think it's really easy to have an idea and then want to execute. And I'm very like, I'm very analytical. And so I was like, I'm going to make sure that the need is here. You know, I hit the market. It's a really good time. It was really under saturated in San Diego when I opened. So I had a leg up in that in that capacity. But yeah, I think a lot of thoughts. I think it's so, it's so funny to look back on people like, oh, yeah, like open to studio, you know, whatever. And I'm like, yeah, I think there were so many little things that like consumed me for a really instilled as consumed me for a really long time. But yeah, lots of little choices all the time. Pretty much. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes it takes me a while to process the responses to the question. So I like want to touch on a couple of things that you said that I think are really valuable. Like, yeah, going back to like, when you have a vision and other people don't see it and you have the capacity to listen to your own voice, that is very valuable. And it makes me think back of when you were going to not go to school while all your peers were going. And like how I think just going outside of the norm can be really tricky, especially when you don't have a vision, you don't have a path. And it sounds like you very much did not and you made yours up as you went, which I think like is hard like that's hard like you don't have a vision. But at the same time, why I think it's so valuable is that you have the space to create your own because you weren't following a path that you thought that you needed to do. So like, yeah, where you ended up is a result of that. You slowly follow your own little road to what ended up happening. And also the peace on not immediately getting a full-time job and like the way you self-funded and like you had savings from your history of freelancing and being self-employed, like not everyone does that and something that I realized when I was laid off, I had become accustomed to a life where I could take nice vacations and had that stable income from the very beginning. And so instead of building it up and watching your costs like as a person from the very beginning, it was very hard to relearn that and understand that if I wanted to generate my own income from scratch, I would have to make sacrifices like you said that you did for the long-term vision of like eventually being able to be your own owner and run your own business and make it past year three or four, it's that is hard to wrap my head around as someone who's always been like a corporate employee and something that I only learned that like it's a marathon not a sprint from removing the option of a corporate role. Yeah. So it's like very interesting here in your story now with all that you've done because yeah, sometimes the corporate role can just take up like the space in your mind. Yeah, and it's not as secure as we think, but yeah, those are just like some thoughts I had in response, but I guess one thing I'd love to ask you is advice on how to like strengthen that voice or that belief in your vision, because I think that thing you mentioned where you had the vision for this space and people in your life were like got so sure, but now here we are, like I don't know what would you say to someone who like has a vision but has a hard time pushing past the resistance of the people in their life and I agree that building in silence can be tricky and it is good to like have accountability by stepping up and saying what you're going to do, so what would be your advice for someone in that position? Yeah, I think honestly, I'm like I'm so against building in silence, I think it's actually like crazy. I'm like who told us that that's a healthy thing to do? I really can't wrap my mind around it, but I think I, it's so funny, you know the on-tick talk where they're like she knew who she was from a very early age, like I, you could ask my parents, like my first word was no, like I have very much been like if I want to do it, I'm going to do it, you know, but I think what's, what I always say to is if you are someone who is like one like scared of taking risks or things like that, like I think a lot of people are just scared to start, I think you need to get around people that are doing cool shed respectfully and I think like surrounding yourself with people who are just like doing, doing the thing, I think it's really easy and it's going to feel really hard and really isolating if the only people that you're around are very comfortable and very like if you are the only entrepreneur, quote unquote, in your friend group and everyone else has a nine to five, you're going to feel isolated, you're going to feel crazy as well. And your friends are probably going to look at you crazy because that's just like what they know, but it's not even like shady. It really is like people just don't know what they don't know. And so I think if you're trying to build something or you know start a business or be an entrepreneur or whatever that looks like, I think you're not surrounded by other people like that, I think you need to be, like you need to put yourself in positions around people who are doing things, maybe not what you want to do and I'm big on not following, I always say I'm like don't follow your like role model or don't follow your idols on social media because I think it like stifles your own creativity and I have like big rules for myself on social media. When it comes to that, which I can touch on later, but I think it's really important to surround yourself with people who inspire you. And I don't think it means if you want to start a business, you should get rid of all your friends that have a nine to five, not at all actually. I think like everybody has a really unique perspective that is helpful and I think being around my friends with more typical jobs, I think is still beneficial for me and them and I think that's still like an amazing friendship to have, but I do think it's really important just have your circle emulate who you want to become as well. I think it's very much like you are who you surround yourself with and I believe that wholeheartedly. And so I think if you taking the risks, you're going to feel scary if you're not around people who ever take risks. And so I think making your circle and widening your net in that way is really important. And I think that's when if you are looking at your friend group and feeling that way, I think it's time to be like, okay, maybe go to a networking event, maybe join a social club, maybe go to a different bar than you usually go to thinking about who do I want to become and where our where is the version of me that I want to become? Where do they spend time? How do they spend their time? Who do they spend their time with? I'm going to start doing those things. I'm going to start acting like her if that's what I want to be. And so I think that starts with your expanding your circle a little bit. And I think with listening to your own ideas, it's so easy to no one has there like no one has very much of a original idea anymore. My opening of studio is not that groundbreaking and what I do is I'm not the first nor the last person to do this. Have I gone about things in a different way to some degree? Sure. Am I the only one to ever do it that way? No. And I know that. And that's okay. I don't need to be unique and not like other businesses. It's not that serious. But I think the way that my business has had success is I really don't pay attention to what my competitors are doing, which I think is probably controversial take. But you will not catch me like looking at what other studios in San Diego are doing that has respectfully nothing to do with me. I think what I want to do is obviously I did market research before I started. Like I'm not crazy. I'm calculated, but I think I'm like I very much the anything that I roll out or ideas that I have. I really want to come from me and my team and what I want this place to become. And so yeah, it's easy to get inspired and obviously I'll see things and I'm like, oh, we could do something like that. But I think when you are constantly looking at what your peers or your competitors are doing, it's really easy to you lose sight of like, do I even want to do that? Or am I just doing that because they're doing it? And so I think, you know, it's really easy to get lost in that piece. The same with like I as a photographer. I don't follow any photographers that I don't know personally like on a friend basis. I don't follow and like on my personal account or like my business, there's a level of networking sure. But like I don't consume content from people who are doing exactly what I'm doing. I think some people may pull that and be like, this is really inspirational. And I think for me, it's so easy to compare. It's so easy to look at someone and be like, oh, well, they did that. So I should do something like that or I should do a shoot like that because they did that. Or they worked with this brand and I should be working with that brand or whatever the case may be. I think like it's really easy to to compare. And then you like, you lose your own ideas and you lose, you don't even have your own voice anymore because you're constantly competing with whoever it is, you know what I mean? And I think it's easy to get your feelings hurt too in that way. Like you hurt your own feelings. That's like when you look up like someone, someone on Instagram that you should look up like an ex or something, you're like, I'm going to hurt my own feelings doing this. You know what I mean? Like you know what's bad for you? Will you do it anyway? Yeah. And so I think to me, I'm like, why would I willingly do that within business? Which I probably care more about than my ex-boyfriend who cares about that man. But like when it comes to like business, I think it's, you have to separate business from personal a little bit and I feel very strongly about that as well. But I think being able to put the two aside and I think it helps me when I'm thinking of an idea, I'm not like, you know, looking at a studio down the street. I couldn't even, I know, I know what they are, right? I've heard of them. I've seen them. But I think I'm very much like I'm in my own lane and I'm like, we're going to roll this out, we're rolling out memberships in the new year and we're doing them in a way that I feel is a little more untraditional for a studio because it's like the way that I want to do it and the way that I think would be really cool for our community specifically and not paying attention to what other studios are doing and because it's my own idea that I have that I want to like make happen and I think it's better that way unless competing less emulating other people's ideas, it really is like what I want to do here, what my team wants to do and what makes sense and everyone else I can just cut out the noise otherwise. I think is the best way it helps me like say focus on what I want to do because it's really it's so easy to be like, oh well, they started doing that like I should too. And I'm like, I never would have even wanted to do that if I didn't see what my competitor doing that. That's so silly. Like, I don't know. I think to me, some people would probably very much disagree and they think you should stay very on top of what your competition is doing and I just don't think so. I also like there's just enough to go around in general, so I'm kind of focused on like what we're doing. More is my thought. Yeah, I like that perspective. Yeah, I think that's a great response. I'm glad to hear that from you, even though it might be controversial. I also loved what you said about, no, it's not that your friends who have nine to five don't have valuable perspective or like you should know. That's like, yeah, no, that doesn't mean like, you know, go uproot your entire cycle right away. And I think that's a common misconception when you hear that like, maybe you need to get in other rooms or around other conversations or change your close circle. It's just like, how can you incorporate a little bit today in the future? So I love that you said that and then yeah, just adding to it. Yeah. It's like, you don't have to, I would never say that you'd like, don't be friends with people have, that's so silly, yeah, it's just like adding to it, who else you spend time with. Mm hmm. And then to expand into the social media stuff was really valuable as well, because speaking to social media, there's so much noise and that is where you might hear like the extreme dialogue around like, it's black and white, like if your circle's supporting you, you know, etc. But then when you're thinking about competitors or people you draw inspiration from that fine line between, I am so absorbed with what they're doing that I'm now trying to copy or I can no longer distinguish the difference between what they're doing and what I'm doing and like, you do lose that. I think there is possibility to lose that inner voice or at least have it drowned out a little bit and like, lose the reason that you might have started or like, what's keeping you going, so yeah, I love that you said that and I'm definitely going to take that away especially with even through role models because I do think there's something to be said for like setting a goal or having a vision and then stepping away from maybe where you got that vision from or where you got inspiration from and then letting yourself figure it out. So yeah, that was super helpful and I always appreciate hearing entrepreneurs' guidance on that topic because I do think you need to have like a little bit of strength that you draw from within and not from other people and other people's advice and other people's take on your goal, you know. But I also wanted to ask you about how you came to even have like a long-term vision where you were like, you know, I might need to make some sacrifices in the short term or the long term so that when it comes to that X year mark, at least I'm self-funded and I'll have like more freedom. Like, how are you able to have the foresight that that would be valuable? I think if I wanted to or if anybody wants to get rich quickly, like starting a business or a brick and mortar of any kind is certainly not the way to do it, it is like so long-term and I think like, yeah, when I was looking at it, I knew that obviously had to spend a lot of money to start what I was doing and I was like, it's going to take a while to ramp up to have it like make money where it starts to like pay back for the investment right whatever. And so I think a lot of the choices that I made were in benefit of the business and I was like, I'm just going to personally take the hit, like that's fine. And so which I've had to do many times and even, you know, this year I've had to take a couple of those as well and is just knowing that it's kind of in that like end belief that I'm like, I do this because I know that what I'm doing is pointing me the right direction and it will get to a point where I'm like, okay, cool, yeah, I can go on those nice vacations again and I can take more time off. But I've had like very little time off this year and had to jump in on a lot more than I would like to and I think that to me is just like, yep, I just know that's how it's going to be for a little while and I'm just going to have to power through and I will survive at the end of the day because I know at the end, I'm like, I know what I'm doing is good. I know what I'm doing is profitable. And so it's just a matter of taking those sacrifices, which usually are in terms of like financial. I didn't pay myself for over a year when I first like, from the studios and I hired staff instead. And so to me, I was like, I'm not taking a paycheck from this, but I'm paying my staffs, I don't get burnt out was the thought process. And so like kind of making those choices of that was like, was that a financial choice? Was I still working a lot? Yes. But I was able to hire staffs, I wouldn't like, super burn out by the end of it. And so I think, I don't know, like looking at it, it was all to me. And again, when I first started, so I was living off of my photography work. That was my income. When I first was doing this and so the studio money I could pay my team instead because that just made more sense than I was like, I'm already fine on my like, my photo work because I was living off that before I opened this anyway. So to me, that was kind of like the same thought process like it was an easy thing to make. Obviously, I was putting in time at the studio, but that was like an easier thing to make. I was like, I don't need to be making more money. I'd rather invest it back in the business via staff or whatever or getting another location to be able to put it back in the business rather than put it in my pocket. I think to me, I was like, yeah, I could pay myself at the time that I was like, that just doesn't make sense. And like what I want to do, I feel like this could grow a lot bigger. And I'd rather like reinvest because I don't need to live off of this right now reinvest. So then I can grow it bigger. So that way when I do decide to pay myself and change, you know, the way that things go, it will make more sense. So that was the original thought process in the way that I did it was more like long-term. I'm like, I don't want this business to operate for two years and me make money in two years, okay, well, whatever. Like I would like this to operate for ten and make a lot more money, the five to ten years than like pocketing some, you know, whatever. The first two or three and having it not be able to like grow as quickly as I wanted. So that was kind of my thought process and making that choice was more like long-term. Yeah. Planning. Yeah. That's so pretty wise. I mean, I just, yeah. I just haven't, in my experience, I like did not know that until I like, did the opposite of that, you know? Yeah. And then I was like, okay, like maybe you need to think more long-term about what you really want to do. And that's another thing. I think it's like, okay, how do I want to spend the next ten years? Mm-hmm. That's a big decision. And so, yeah, that's like then getting into like, do I really like this? Like do I like the process of what this entails more than the outcome of whatever it looks like? Right. You know? So, yeah, that's, and what's your take on that? Do you enjoy the process of running the studio spaces and your remaining photography on the side? I think it's so funny because, like, truly, and managing this, like, field, I'm like a glorified cleaning lady, like all I do is clean all the time. Like today, I, there was an event here last night that ended at 11 p.m. and I was here at 5 a.m. this morning to clean and then let someone in at 7. So, like, not very glamorous. Yeah. And a lot of people are like, "Oh my gosh, that's so interesting." Like, I also just think it's not an industry, any creative industry, I think, for people who aren't in creative, the creative world is very interesting, naturally. And so, I think whenever I tell people what I do, they're like, "Oh, that's so cool." And I'm like, "Yeah, I guess." And so, it's funny because I'm just like, "Oh, yeah, my day today is just not what you would assume that it is." And so, I'm just like, "Yeah, I clean all the time, all the time I'm cleaning." And I'm like, "We're applying to emails and I'm cleaning and I'm replying to messages and I'm cleaning some more and then I'm buying paper towels and then I'm taking out the trash again and again." And so, I think it's just like, it's one of those things. It's like silly, like, mundane things that, like, do I want to be doing this for the rest of my life? No. Like, do I want to be cleaning like this? No. I'm hiring a cleaning company in the new year, I'm really excited, but I haven't. I've put it off for a really long time. But I think when I, like, just anybody actually know what they want to be doing in 10 years from now? No. But I think when I looked at it, Michael, and when I started my business, I really started it, not around me. So, like, if you, like, there was a solid, like, probably still, like, there's some, I started and I had an assistant, my name is Brooke, and she was my, like, my assistant pre studio. I had hired her. She was, like, helping me with my shoots. And then I opened the studio and she was a part of that. And there was, like, a very solid chunk of people who thought that she was the owner and, like, we would get emails, like, up until, like, a year ago, we'd get emails that addressed the two of us, which was, like, so funny. We would, like, laugh about it. And we're like, how does everyone think Brooke is the owner? Like, I don't understand, but I very much removed myself from the studio because I really wanted it to operate kind of, not, like, faceless because I do think there is something really beneficial in, like, attaching, like, someone to a business, you personalize it. I think, like, when someone can see behind a business, it's really helpful for them to, like, support it. But when I opened, I really didn't want it to be, like, the Kate show. And I have, like, we have a very long and my friend group, like, I keep my last name, like, my last name is not on any of my social media. Like, I am very much just, like, it's just, like, not about me. And it's not, like, if you, I googled myself the other day, I googled who's the owner of studio casually because I googled someone else for something. And I was like, I wonder what happens if you googled, like, for another business because I wanted to know who ran it. And I, like, I was like, I wonder what happens if you googled who's the owner of studio casually. And it just says Kate, which I find very funny, like, my last name is nowhere to be found. But I think I, which, like, I don't need to get my last name is not that serious. But I think, like, it's just a funny joke at this point. But I very much wanted to, I didn't want my business to be, like, so around me that if I wasn't present, it couldn't run because to me, that is a business that's set up to fail. If I want to scale. And so I think I didn't want to have to, like, I have to be there all the time. People know that it's me. People expect it to be me. I have to be present at every event and did it at that. I think I was, I very much didn't want it to be that. And I really wanted, like, the business to be successful with or without me where I want to set it up so I can go on vacation and I don't have to be present. And like, in 10 years from now, like, I could just be the CEO and it could be fully run by a team of people and it wouldn't change anything. You would still get the same experience, the same, like, all the details of it are very personal. I think when people come here and the feedback that I get the most is that it's very warm. It's very welcoming. And that is, like, a lot due to, like, my staff as well and how they interact with clients the same way that I do. And I'm like, I think to me, there's a lot of times where people come, my favorite, like, little trick, not trick, like people will come and they'll be like, oh, like, do you work here? And I'm like, yeah, which is like kind of fun. Every now and then you know when you, when you can tell when someone's like being condescending, I don't like it when they're like that because sometimes they're like, are you the owner? And I'm like, don't piss me off. But when someone's like very, like, cutesy, oh, do you work here? I'm just like, yeah, it happened the other day. There was an event and some girls I was like, oh, if you need trash bags, let me know. Or, you know, they're over here and she's like, oh, do you work a studio casually? And I was like, yeah, I do because I do, I don't know why, but it's just kind of funny. But I think to me, that's the best where I'm like, yeah, I can almost be invisible and watch how people experience my business, not from a place that they know that I'm the owner. Like, it's very, I'm very quiet about it and I'm almost trying to do a little bit less of that. I'm a little bit more present as a founder because people relate to that and they want to, they want to know more in that way and I think it's from like a marketing perspective. It's like positive. But from a business owner perspective, I really like that I'm very detached from the brand in the business and it kind of operates outside of myself. I think that was really important to me when I started, which will help me in the long run. And I do transition and I'm doing a lot less. The experience for everybody also be the same. It's not like, oh, now like the owner isn't there anymore. They never knew how it was there to begin with. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a flex. Not a lie, but I also think that's great because I think when you start something and from the beginning, it's so intertwined with you, that is a big way to put on something and not that people don't do that and it doesn't work fabulously. It almost is just like being a content creator, like what I imagine it would be like for that. Yeah. But like as you evolve like inevitably as a human being, you bring the whole audience with you. And I think, I don't know, from what you're describing, your anecdote about being able to observe how the business functions because you're not known automatically as the creator. That sounds really nice to have that level of detachment. And then when you want to step in and maybe share more, like it's an option. It's not like an obligation that was there from the very beginning. So that sounds great. Yeah. It's like constant undercover boss. I love it. Yeah. It's fun. But yeah, I think really and truly I was like, yeah, I want to build a successful business. And I don't, I don't want it to only be successful because of me. Like because I'm there. I want like my business model to be successful and I want people to enjoy my business and support my business because it's a good one and not because they want to support me if that makes sense. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. So that was my thoughts, I guess. Yeah. No, that's great. There has been challenging, I think maybe those different words, but yeah, I would love to know more about like what kind of things those are or obstacles you've encountered while scaling and growing over the past three years. Yeah. I think this year is by far been the most difficult for a lot of reasons. I think that a lot we're out of my control, we had to relocate and I basically was like down for like two months for one of my locations because the elevator in the building wasn't working, which is just like not something you would ever factor in being an issue because you just assume that's always to get going to be fine. And then it's down for months and you're like arguing with our building and so that was definitely like not a fun time in one of those where I was like obviously being down for that long will be a massive financial hit. And so that was one of those where I was like, yeah, I'm the only person that's going to feel that effect. And so that's one of those things where it's like, yeah, I had to kind of make choices and adjust things. And so then I started, I was like, we did some changes with like staffing, which was like never a fun thing to do, but something that like has to be done. And so I think as a business owner, it's not something that I, not conversations I love to have to be like, hey, I have to like cut your hours, never something I want to do ever again. But I have to absolutely, I'm sure. But I think those are hard conversations to have and I'm young, all my staff is young, we're all like know each other really well at this point. And so I think just like not, not something I anticipated having to do and was very like kind of, I like hit a wall and I was like, there's no other options. This is like the choice that I have to make as a business, but on a personal level hate it. And so I think that's where making those calls are never fun. And only something that I've had to do one time and so I think is difficult. And in that I was like, well, we have to do a couple staffing adjustments, which means I'm going to pick up the slack because I don't pay myself. So like the easiest way to save money is for me to do the work and not, you know, staffing is our highest expense outside of, you know, like traditional operational costs. And so that was one of those runs like, yeah, I'm just going to have to like take on. I had weekends off always and my staff worked all the weekends. And then I was like, well, here, here I am with working weekends again. And so I think one of those things again, like a sacrifice that I was just like, this is just what has to be done right now. Do I like it? No. Does anyone here like the situation? No. But just kind of like the call that had to be made. And so I think those things are never fun and never easy. And the more the older I get, I'm 29 now, so like the older I get, I think like the easier these things are, the longer I've been business, the more that I'm like, it's not it's not personal. It's never about me. It's never about whatever it is. It's just business calls that have to be made and trying to be a business owner and being a business owner with integrity that cares deeply about my staff and the people that come here and making sure everyone feels valued and important is like a really big deal to me. And so I think, yeah, hitting some of the challenges that I've had to that were a lot of like out of my control. Like who would have known that like an elevator just went down impacted me directly impacted my team directly. We had to fully relocate that location, which was my first location. And so I was a little email about it for a little while because I was like, I don't want to leave. But it's a five floor walk up. Are you getting? So people don't do that out here, maybe on these coast, people don't do that out here. And so I think, you know, looking at it, I've had a lot of things that were very much out of my control, which is just kind of the nature of any business that like has a location. I'm like any point in time of like we've had leaks, we've had, you know, lots of different things like that that are just like we couldn't have anticipated it. And all we can do is just take it and move forward and figure out a plan. So I'm very much somebody who's like, I'm going to have a freak out for like five minutes and I'm going to be fine. And I'm going to move to solutions. But I'm always like, I'm going to have a little like crash out for a second, shed a tear, maybe a couple, maybe a lot. And then I'll be fine. And so I think I've had a lot of moments like that, but it's just kind of like the nature of it. I think the more as weird as it is, like the more they happen, the easier it is for me to like bounce back, I think when I first started when things would go wrong, I felt like very debilitating and very scary. And now it's just like, all right, we just like, there's nothing that I can do besides like figure out a way through. And so a little more like solutions oriented, I think the beginning when I just used to be like, this is my baby. And I would like freak out versus now I'm just like, yeah, like things are going to get ruined. Things are going to go wrong. A plan is going to get stolen, you know, like things are just things happen all the time. A hole is going to get punched in the wall and I'm just going to have to fix it and move on with my day. How's that happened? That has happened. Just wide though. So we're three, three holes. Just wide. It was a fraternity. Okay. And then they, we don't do those anymore. And that was a learning lesson for us all, yeah, truly, that was a really bad one. I really was like, holes in the wall, yeah, and then I fixed them myself. Wait, is that a situation where you then are like, is there some sort of like legal thing we can do with booking, where like, how does that work? They got charged for it. Okay. They had to pay for it. Okay. Yeah. And that's like all built in. Okay. It was like through the platform that we had been through. But yeah. So they got built. That always fine. It goes through like a process to get approved and stuff, but it was pretty relatively seamless. But yeah, I did patch three holes. Right. Okay. Yeah. That's definitely like a third fall. Yeah. For sure. Lots of like strange things this year that I just was like, made the first two years just look so easy and then suddenly I'm like, that's going on. Yeah. Just strange things that you just wouldn't anticipate. Every time I think I like understand what's going on here and I've like got some things in place. Something will happen. And I'm like, what? Like what's going on? Like someone took our chair yesterday, like completely took it. Okay. And I was like, hey, this one, I was like, hey, our chair is missing, like, did you take that? And they're like, yes. They brought it back. Like they took it on accident. They took it on accident. Okay. Okay. Which like I assume half the time, like things like that truly are accidents, but I really was like, yeah, I never thought, you know, that I would have to be like, did you take a chair home? I think it was theirs. I guess. Interesting. Yeah. Strange things happen all the time and that's just like, okay, happened with our plants recently as well. Like a fully potted plant, like bigger than these plants here in a ceramic pot gone. Also they, that never got returned and never got found. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I'm like, just living room is that plant and I'm dying to know. I would love to know. It's gone though. Okay. Yeah. Just strange things. Yeah. I never know what to expect truly and it's, yeah, and now I used to wig out. Like that would really, I would be so felt like I, like on what's it called? I can't think of the word suddenly, but it would just really throw me off and I just would struggle to recover. Like something would happen like that. And I'm like, what do you mean our chairs gone? What do you do? And now I just was like, hey, you got our chair. Can you bring it back? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, okay. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Like, worst case, well, we have to get a new chair. Okay. And I will, I will learn from this situation inevitably. So yeah, but it's, it's a lot of little challenges all the time. I think it's just figuring it and navigating it and I'm a lot more calm about it than I used to be. It really used to, I think, throw me off so much at a really hard time adjusting back. And I would take things more personally. Like, if someone didn't had a bad experience or they, you know, they didn't like X, Y, Z. It would really, we'd get like, we've had like two bad reviews ever. And like the first one I was in a panic and then the second, like, we got one a couple months ago. And I just was like, okay, like, that's natural. We have what six hundred and eighty five star reviews. Like, yeah, statistically, we are, we are due for a couple of one stars. It's okay, not everyone is going to have the best experience all the time. It's just in the numbers. Yeah. And I'm like, I can't take that personally because like, listen, I've written a one star review too for a place that amazing reviews. It's just the nature of the name of the game. And so taking it a lot less personal than I used to, I think, helps has helped me so much. And I think that's just with age. Like when I first opened, I was twenty five. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I was twenty five. Almost twenty six, I think. Yes. That's right. So I think I'm like, yeah, my brain's also developed and I'm like, I'm fully cooked over here. Yeah. So I'm like, yeah, I handle things in my personal life and in business across the board. I handle things so much more differently than I did when I was twenty five. And I first started and I didn't know what I was doing and everything felt personal all the time. And it just was never. It just never is. It's just business. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to hear that it's evolved for you. And then it's gotten easier. You started this at twenty five. And I asked you that question about like, you know, do you enjoy the process of this? You saw yourself doing it for a long time. Like how do you know what you think you're going to like doing? My question is to someone maybe figure out what they want to do or how they want to spend the next X amount of years, what do you say to them? Because I feel like it's a lot of pressure to start something, not know if you are going to like it in so many years, but you started this when you were twenty five and like here you are now at twenty nine, so going like, I don't know, what would you say to someone like that to relieve some of the pressure of committing to a business? Like no one's holding a gun to your head. You don't have to do it forever. I could very well in a year or two years be like, I actually hate this. I don't want to do it anymore. Okay. And I could stop. And I think a lot, there's so much pressure and people making decisions that feel definitive. I feel people feel very similarly about moving, they're like scared to move because it feels definitive. But I'm like, no one says you can't move back if you don't like it. Like when I was moving here, I think it was like, hope like is it, are you going to like say anything? You've never like, I had been to San Diego one time for a week and I say to PB, which like, I hate PB. I probably haven't been back to PB since. And I'm like, yeah, I and I moved here and I just was like, yeah, if I hate it, then I will just like move somewhere else or I'll go back to the same city that I moved from. Okay. At least I tried. Like, who cares? I think the end of it, it's financially is where you feel it, right? And so, yeah, I think I understand from a financial standpoint, there's like, there's a loss financially odds are. But like, okay, there is with everything, like everything's expensive. And so I think you could very easily start a business, find out you hate it and stop doing it. I could stop doing this next year. And would I consider that a failure? No. And I don't think anybody you ask except maybe a handful of people that probably don't like me to begin with would say that's like a failure. Oh, she couldn't make it. I don't think anybody would have that viewpoint of me. And if they do, I probably wouldn't be listening anyway, like I don't care. But I think if, yeah, there's no rule that says you have to keep doing it forever. You could switch what you want. I've switched what I wanted to do a dozen times since I was in 10 years probably, like, yeah, when I was 19, I moved out when I was 19. And so I'm like, I've had a ton of jobs over that time and even since I've started working for myself, the way my role, my job and what I do has evolved immensely. I mean, I was director of marketing was my role, like when I first started freelancing. And then I was like, technically, I just did social media for a ton of people and consulting. And then I was doing photo work and then I decided, um, I'm going to open the studio. And then the studio was like, Oh, these are studio and events spaces. And we do in house events and we run this market and we do this. So like what I do has shifted immensely, the studio has shifted immensely since I omitted three years ago and we'll probably continue to do so. I don't anticipate it running the same as it does now a year from now, two years from now. I think it's naturally the market's going to shift what I want to do with it is going to shift. And so if I don't feel like doing this anymore and I quote unquote hate it or it's, I want to pursue something else, I will just do that. And I think that's fully okay. I don't think people give themselves enough permission to just, people should quit more often. People should try things more often and they should quit them more often. I think I remember I was, I grew up playing the piano and my, I played for nine years and my parents did not want me to quit. And I just wanted to quit. I was like, I don't care anymore. I'm like, I'm 17, you know, I care about like other things and I just didn't, I didn't care anymore. And I didn't want to play anymore and I remember they were like, no, you even messes so much time. It's like the sun. It's like when you're in a relationship that like should have ended, be even messes so much time, guilty and you just, it should have ended a lot sooner than it ended. But I think in my head, I was like, well, I've invested all this time in this person or whatever in piano, whatever it is. But like if it's not working anymore, what the fuck are you still doing it? Like it's okay. Sorry. I don't know if you curse on this podcast. I don't know why, like, why it feels necessary to continue to force it. And it could be a business that is doing extremely well and you could still decide, they're like, I don't want to do it anymore. So I want to pursue XYZ and you could sell the business, you could close it, who cares? And so I think, yeah, there's like, there's, it doesn't have to be pressure. I think the pressure is usually put on by yourself and I think, yeah, if I was to close this in a year, would I probably be beating myself up on the inside a little bit? Absolutely. But like, is anyone else, no, not at all. And I think that is something you just, it's your own, you're the only one that's telling you to have to do something XYZ. You don't have to commit for 10 years just because do I see myself still doing a form of this five years from now? Probably. Will it look different? Will my day today with this look different? Absolutely. I hope so. If it doesn't, I won't be doing this anymore. I can tell you that much. But I think it's, it's good to try things and fail and not like it and decide you want to do something else. And I think, I mean, I used to own a clothing company. That was my first baby business before I did any of this. And I remember when I stopped doing it, I was like, oh, like, is this failed? No. No. No, and I look back and I'm just like, yeah, like all of those things pointed me to doing what I'm doing now. And it's like a nice little, like, fun piece of lore. I get to drop every now and then, you know, yeah. There's no, like, no one's telling you you have to do it forever. You can choose to. But it's very well. Like, my mind could change any time. Mm-hmm. And this could look very different. And I think that's like totally fine and okay, and I think more people should go about things like that. It doesn't have to be forever. It could be. And I think it's wise to look at starting a business with long-term thoughts because it is a lot of like work time energy sacrifice and a lot of times you don't see that result right away. Yeah. And so with that in mind, I think it's an important thing to think about. No one says you have to stay and do it forever. Yeah. You just stop. Yeah. Definitely. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. That's really much needed response to that and a good reminder to be gentle with yourself and the pressure. I do think that that's something that's always on my mind because, yeah, like, it's that push and pull between. I want to be smart about this and I want to plan and I want to first see to the best of my ability where this is going to take me. Otherwise, I don't want to invest in it. And then accepting the fact that we are always changing and you don't even know what it's going to be like until you're in it and like, you don't know what it's going to be like year to year, whether it's just even just your job, like, yeah, or like, say you're like in a nine to five as well. So, yeah, it's a good reminder that you can walk away and you don't need to keep doing something once you've decided, like, oh, I hate this. Like, goodbye. Yeah. Just quit. Yeah. I mean, you can be kind of smart about it. Like, I'm a calculated risk girl, but I'm like, yeah, you could just quit. It's okay to quit things. I think our generation was raised by the, like, Gen X and, like, maybe Boomer, like, you're not allowed to quit. And I'm like, why? Don't be a quitter. Yeah. And everyone has a participation trophy, but, like, quit if you're doing it. Why? I mean, listen, there's plenty of days that I don't like what I'm doing. And I'm like, I push through a lot of them, but, like, yeah, if in three years, this looks exactly how it does today, I won't do this anymore because I'm like, this is not what I want it to look like. And so I'm like, I'm putting in the work, so it doesn't look that way. But if it still does, girl, I'm done. I won't do it. Yeah. Like, I think it's, yeah, it's just like, okay, it's okay. No one is forcing you to, like, stay the way. I think a lot of people are really scared of, like, it's a lot of fear and a lot of people, like, scared to be embarrassed. Like, people are embarrassed to start a business and have it not work. Or people are embarrassed to start a podcast and have it, like, not get as many whatever listeners or they're scared to post content and have it only get 200 views. Like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Everybody has to start somewhere. You can't, like, go viral on your first video. I mean, you can, but like, you probably won't, you know what I mean? Like, your first episode of your podcast isn't going to get thousands of views. I'm not going to start a business and sell out the first day. It's just not feasible. So I think there's something really honestly bad as about putting yourself out there and, like, just be like, yeah, I'm just going to take the risk because I believe in it. And I'm going to put in the work to have it be what I know that it can be without being scared of it's all about, like, how people perceive you. Like, I think a lot more people would be willing to take a lot of risk as they didn't feel like they would be judged. I think that's the big part of it. So it's just, like, canceling out the noise. Yeah. Definitely. Especially because I think people move on to the next thing right away and they were never thinking that deeply about it anyway, whereas I know I tend to hyper fixate on whatever I've put out and I think that people are thinking about it more than they typically are. And I'm definitely guilty of that because, yeah. I was very scared to take a step back from spot cast for example, because I was like, you need to be consistent. That's what all the successful people do. They just keep doing it forever, but I just was like, not enjoying it anymore. Obviously, we're here now and like, I'm excited about it again, but I think like it's just a good reminder to not take it too seriously and don't force yourself to do something that like you're clearly not enjoying at that point. And that's different than this is challenging for X, Y and Z, but it still is what I want and I see something here and I want to go for it and push past, like, yeah. Yeah. It's a knowing win to be like, yeah, I don't need to do this anymore versus like powering through the heart times for sure. Yes. But I would love to ask you one more question. I would love to hear what you really like about what you do for work today. I think I, I really like that I get to do a lot of things. I think I am very much somebody who doesn't like doing the exact same thing every day. And so I think with what I do, I get that good split of like my creative brain and then my like business owner brain, because I am like a data analytics, girly in my heart of hearts. And so I think owning a business, there's a lot of that like the back and side I really enjoy, which I think is the worst part part for a lot of people. Listen, the worst part for a lot of people is like the business ownership, like piece, like all the back and stuff sucks. And I think I really enjoy that part. And I still get to have like my creative stuff with my photo work and all of that. I think truly what the best part about what I do. And truly I've like met all of my best friends through here. And it's funny, I just did a friends giving with like 60 people here. It was like friends. And then they all invited their friends to kind of like an extended group. And I think 90 percent of my friends I've like made through here or like really gotten close to through here. And I think that is like really special to me. And a lot of people have made a lot of really good friends here and met partners here. I think to me this space is very big on like connection, a lot of people have made really close like bonds here, which I think is really special obviously we like have people rent this out for weddings and whatever. So I think there's there's a lot of like love in this space. And I think the people that I get to interact with, I meet so many are audiences mainly women. And so I'm like meeting and talking to female business owners all the time, a lot of like photographers. And just like business owners and general people rent it all the time for events of course, but like for their photo shoots for their business. And I think I am a very small piece of so many people's stories and like the beginnings of their business. It's like a lot of people come here for I think I and I remind my team of this too or here all the time. So it feels very this is like my second home. And so it's really easy to forget the specialness of it. But a lot of people come here and they're celebrating something very important and they're investing money to be here to do a shoot for their business for the first time or they're shooting maternity photos because they're going to have a baby or family photos or whatever it is. And a lot of like really special moments are captured here. And I think that obviously this place is very special to me, but I think it's really cool that it's special to so many other people as well. And I think the people that I get to interact with really make what I do so special and like fulfilling to me. And I get to be a part of so many people's stories in one way or another and I've obviously I've made so many close friendships. But yeah, I think it's a mix of obviously going to run a business and I get to do that. I love doing that. But then outside of that, I really get to be a part of a lot of other people's beginnings of their business and that's always kind of been a big part of what we do and something I'm leaning more into next year to in some other programming that we're kind of working on. But yeah, I think getting to be a part of other people is like starting. I remember when I had my little clothing company and I did my first photoshoot I rented out a studio and I like remember that day very vividly and I lived in Portland to the time. This is like way before I moved here and it was like such a big day and such an important day to me. And I have photos of myself there and I like look back and like, oh wow, what a time. My first time ever renting a studio and I remember it was it was an investment and it was a really big deal for me. And I'm like, yeah, I think knowing that I got to have that feeling and knowing like I get to give other people that feeling like dozens of time a month, you know, every day basically someone's here doing that and I think that feels really is an honor to me to get to be a little piece of so many other people's businesses and obviously like very passionate about like women, which is why we like we cater mostly to women obviously men come here to. But like our audience is primarily women, which I think is it's rare to get to like work with so many women in a technically like male dominated space like creative fields and like productions are more like male dominated. And so not being that I think is really cool and special and I think, yeah, it's really nice to get to interact with so many other women owned businesses and just like people that are doing really cool shit that I feel like I get to watch grow and even with some events we've had, like I've seen, you know, there was a female owned comedy, they like did a comedy show here once a month and we had the long term partnership with them and watching them grow and now they're in a different venue and they've grown in the cell out every time and it's like, yeah, that's really cool to be a part of that and have watched that grow. And so yeah, I think it's such a blend of all the things that matter to me that I think I get to be a part of all the time. So I'm like, yeah, I clean a lot and I like write a lot of emails and stuff. But I think that's the piece with the human element that I think is really special and what is I prioritize and how we operate really centers around that. That's why we don't do like key, key, key pads. Yeah, key pads at the door. That's why we don't do that. So people just don't just let themselves in and out and they never see us. The majority of the time me or my team is here, like meeting every person and we get to be a little bit more involved in that way, which is really intense. Yeah, yeah, amazing. Yeah, that sounds great. I forgot what I was going to say. I was just liking listening to you talk about it. But oh, I was going to say, yeah, I'm just so grateful for this conversation because obviously you're an example of someone who has created their own job that does not exist or like, you know, like you kind of just created it from scratch and build it piece by piece until like now here you are. And yeah, I love hearing examples of that and why you love it and why it's like valuable to you. And so yeah, I'm just grateful for this conversation and all the guidance that you shared and going back and describing all these steps along the way and the challenges. And I think people will find it really valuable. So thank you. Things are heavy. This was so fun.