Speaker 1Hey, what's up? Welcome back to the James Kennedy podcast. I hope you're all good. I just want to give a quick shout out to everyone that's recently subscribed to the podcast on YouTube in particular, where I recently uploaded a bunch of live interviews out in the streets with people like Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Medhurst and Andrew Feinstein, which is exclusive only to the YouTube channel, so you can see that footage there. But if you're listening to the podcast on Spotify, Apple, or anywhere else, thank you very much for doing so there as well. We appreciate you. I'm not going to waffle on too much at the start of this episode because we've got a subject today which is intensely important, and I think it'd be better if we just got straight into it and brought on today's guest. We will be talking about Israel and Palestine, specifically the atrocities that are happening in Gaza right now. We will be talking about direct action and protest and lots of other stuff along the way. So without further ado, strap yourselves in as we welcome on to today's episode of the podcast, the brilliant, the brave, and the wonderful Sarah Wilkinson from Palestine. Palestine Action. Sarah, thanks so much for joining us, man. How are you doing?
Speaker 2Good, thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1No, thank you for being here. And before we jump into the broader issues of which there are many surrounding this subject, for those who don't know, can you tell the listeners what is Palestine Action?
Speaker 2Okay, so Palestine Action was first established because what was needed, people would protest and people would picket and there'd be vigils and then everybody would go home for tea. So technically... Technically, what was needed three years ago was an action group that didn't go home, was basically prepared to use their bodies as a way of protesting. So to shut down an Israeli arms factory, standing outside with a placard, it does raise public awareness and there is an importance to doing it, but it didn't actually have, it didn't have any results. So in order to shut down the Israeli factories of which at the time we had 10, when we began to protest, we didn't have any results. So in order to shut down the Israeli factories of which at the time we had 10, when we began to protest, we didn't have any results. So in order to shut down the Israeli factories of which at the time we had 10, when we began to protest, we didn't have any results. So in order to shut down the Israeli factories of which at the time we had 10, we didn't have any results. a gun. What was needed was really to occupy the factories, was to get people on board who prepared to put their bodies on the line and take risks and get the Israeli arms factory Elbit, which is the largest private arms manufacturer owned by the Israelis, into court. Elbit never wanted to go into court because it didn't want to disclose what it was doing behind the scenes. And it's making weaponry, munitions, drone parts, drone engines, parts for macabre tanks, a whole array of munitions which were being used experimentally to annihilate Palestinians in Gaza and use them as lab rats, if you like, if I excuse the insensitive term. So Palestine Action was initiated originally to properly shut down these Israeli arms factories, not just protest, not just sit outside and go. home afterwards, but to actually shut these places down for three or four days at a time, to go up on the roofs and to disrupt and destroy the company operations so that it could no longer continue to make weapons. And in doing that, you're also raising awareness, you're getting public support, you're recruiting more people. And effectively, you are shutting the factory down, even if you're not closing it permanently, you are causing it millions in reparation, even if you're not closing it permanently, you are causing it millions in reparation, even if you're not closing it permanently, you are causing it millions in reparation, every court case costs Elbit money to take you to court. They have spies that follow you around that cost 200 pounds an hour. All of this comes out of the profits that Elbit are using to manufacture weapons. So it's a really effective way if people are prepared to make the sacrifice and do some prison time or even, you know, get arrested to put Elbit in the dock. And that's effectively what Palestine Action does. It gets Elbit into court and the judges normally find that no matter how much damage has been caused, that it is proportionate because these Israeli arms factories are destroying lives. They're exporting the weapons back into Haifa, in Israeli occupied land, and they're using them to murder, maim, torture and kill and annihilate the Palestinian people. So it's a really effective organization. And in three years, this organization has done what no other organization has done, and that is to actually permanently shut three Israeli arms factories down, three Elbits. So the first one was Oldham, which was a massive factory making all sorts of munitions and helicopter parts. And, you know, there's a whole array of weaponry. And then the Tamworth was closed. Recently, the other day, they pulled out of Tamworth. So and the London HQ, which is a very important one, shut down last year. So three Israeli arms factories are out of England. It doesn't stop the Israelis from manufacturing weapons on their own soil, but it does stop the British from being complicit. And no other organization has been able to do this. So in three years, there's three Israeli arms factories. We've got seven more to shut down. So the job has not been finished yet. And, you know, it's a very important organization. And, you know, it's a very important organization. And, you know, it's a very important organization. And, you know, it's a very important organization. And, you know, it's a very important organization. And, you know, the Palestine action will continue until every single arms factory is shut.
Speaker 1Love it. Love it. Yeah. And that's an amazing track record for an organization that's only been going since 2020. And you've mentioned some of the things that you guys do in order to achieve those results already. But let's let's dive deeper into that. So what are some of the strategies and tactics that you guys employ in order to achieve the results that you have?
Speaker 2Right. So it's everything from literally the smallest operations, I suppose, are locking on what we call locking on, which is attaching yourself to fairly impenetrable tubes that block the gates and stop the workers from getting in. So that's the smaller actions, if you like. But you still get arrested from those and there's still a court case impending afterwards. But then there's occupying the rooftops and actually smashing through the roof and getting into the factory, spraying it red. And the red obviously is symbolic of the blood spilt by these factories. So it's everything from, you know, just disabling the gates from smashing your way into the car park, just basically anything that will shut down the factory and stop the operations, even if it's only for a day. The rooftop operations, I believe, in Oldham, one of them went on for six days. And then I think the day before yesterday, there was an action on Teledyne, which is an American firm. It's not an Elbit, but it's an American weapons factory supplying the fighter jets or fighter jet components, straight to the Israeli regime. And they managed to close that down for an entire day. So it is just literally about, I mean, ideas are always different. People come along with their own ideas. How about if we drive a vehicle through here or we smash this or we or we hit the wall or we, you know, there's always new ideas. And the more people that come on board, the more ideas there are and the more creative people can be. But the main function is to shut down, is to use direct action to shut down the factory and disable it from being able to work. That costs an awful lot of money. The workers turn up, they can't get in, they've got to go home. And then you've got the insurance costs, you've got the security costs. Elbit have had to employ numerous security firms and dogs. These all cost money. And the more you're costing it, the more you're disabling it from working and the more you're creating a situation where police forces have to converge and to shut the road down so that the traffic can't even pass through. You're creating cost. You're creating an expense that has to be covered by the company. And the more you do that,
Speaker 1the less it can use its profits. I'm guessing that this comes at some significant personal cost to the people doing this as well, though. I'm sure there are some consequences and punishments
Speaker 2for people engaging in these activities. Is that right? I think it depends how you are in court. And it also depends what judge you have. But the point is, I mean, some people have literally sacrificed their liberty and some people have been bailed and some people have been acquitted. It all depends about the amount of damage that you cause and also how you present yourself in court, how Elbit present themselves in court. So every court case is different, but every single court case that happens has a huge amount of supporters outside the court raising awareness for the passers by. And it's a huge amount of supporters outside the court raising awareness for the passers by. And the court cases get a lot of press coverage. And Elbit are struggling to justify why. I mean, it tries lying that it hasn't got export license, that it's not feeding the Israeli military with weaponry. But all of this can be disclosed in court as being a lie. So Elbit end up not looking great in court. They hide behind screens. They won't let their faces been shown. But the information that they give is often proved to be false. The Crown Prosecutor struggles to say, well, why didn't you try protesting ordinarily? Well, we did. We've done it for years. Why didn't you write a letter to King Charles? We've done it. We've done it. Why don't you write to your MP? We've done it. We've leafleted. We've done all of that. And there comes a point where you can't just walk up and down a road with a placard anymore. So we've done that for about 20 years. And so we're now forced into a situation. We have to shut these factories down. We have to because lives are at stake. And any judge hearing that in court is fairly sympathetic to the idea, well, yeah, you are saving tens of thousands of lives by doing this so it becomes slightly proportionate no matter how much damage they cause but the idea is to to create a situation where that building is no longer under the health and safety regulations they're not able to continue working without a roof or without a water tank or without the air conditioning so you actually make it impossible for them to go back to work for maybe two or three weeks not only that the red paint is an indication to anyone who drives past or anyone who walks past something bad is going on here and people in these sleepy villages they need to know that they're living next door to an arms factory that has murdered and maimed hundreds of thousands of adults and children in palestine and it's being used to facilitate a genocide
Speaker 1100 and it's interesting what you said about the sentiments within the courtroom as well because i would have assumed that an instrument of the state such as the courts would just naturally side with big business by default rather than these you know ragtag of troublesome protesters causing criminal damage you know in their eyes so that's super interesting and that's not actually always the case and that by engaging in these activities which gets you guys then in the courtroom elbit have an opportunity to embarrass themselves and expose themselves in that arena as well so it's kind of like a double whammy effect and i'm actually quite surprised by that because i would have thought it would have gone the other way
Speaker 2yeah but i think the the the thing about activists is that they're on the right side of history and a judge can recognize that right we're not there to hurt an individual or hurt anybody uh even when they had dogs we made sure that when we were smashing glass on the car park that we were not doing it in an area that could hurt the dog so there's there's there's elements of this humanitarianism about activism we're saving lives we're trying to save lives and we're trying to save lives we have colleagues friends family in palestine so there's a personal issue and i think the judge can see that we're not we're not um you know hideous criminals that are a danger to society what we're trying to do is stop the killing of um palestinian people to stop the killing of gaza and that you know when you when you're talking about that in court it's very difficult i mean i have personal experiences i've lost people in palestine it's hard for the judge to dispute that you know and i think it's a very difficult thing to do and i think it's a very difficult thing to do you know i have a reason for direct action i have a reason to stop this israeli arms factory operating because one of the drones that this particular factory made actually slaughtered um my my pen friend who i'd had for years even before the days of uh digital social media you know i i had been writing to uh my palestinian friend for years and and and this drone which was made in britain was which the which was the factory that i was doing my direct action outside was responsible for the killing of an entire family including a six-month-old baby she lost all six children so when you're talking about that in court the judge can kind of see why you're doing what you're doing and if i'm locked on outside a gate i'm really not causing any harm to anybody but what i am doing is trying to stop this factory from making more weapons that will kill another family of six children and so it's hard for the judge not to sympathize with that whereas elbit are all about making weapons to kill i mean they can't deny that their weapons are being used to kill people so how do you go into court and say yeah we make weapons we kill people but it's justified you can't really justify it and so it's easier i think for the judge to understand the activists uh who are always a really nice bunch of people uh they're very eloquent uh they do well in court they're likable they have a lot of supporters in the gallery elbit have no supporters they come and they are quite aggressive uh they're trying to justify killing how do you justify killing you can't so they're on the on the back foot i think the minute they're in court and this is why they've never wanted to be in court and nobody has got them into court until palestine action came along and forced them into a situation where they had to take these activists to court because they had destroyed the building so so it's a really effective way of putting them in the dock and forcing them to answer questions that they're very uncomfortable about
Speaker 1beautiful man yeah and it's really heartening to hear that there there is that capacity within the establishment such as the courts to have that discourse you know and you mentioned already some of the more you know mainstream or socially politically acceptable forms of protest and resistance such as you know the marching and the placards and the um petitioning and awareness raising that'd be interesting to know what your thoughts are on those forms of protest as to whether you think they have a right to do that or not and i think that's a really good question whether you think they have a place in change and progress or whether you think that direct action is
Speaker 2ultimately the only way to get shit done um both really that i know i'm very tempted to say look direct action i think the mantra is get gets the job done and it does but there's always there are some people who can't do direct action maybe not just for disability regions but also they may have family they don't want to spend time in custody or they may have a job where they'll lose their job if they do so so there's room for change and i think that's a really good question and i think there's room for every form of protest and if you have a massive placard if you like protest going on outside a direct action as well then that is just as useful when you have three quarters of a million people marching through london taking over the streets of london that is still effective when you have petitions that work not all of them do that's still effective and and the fact that the pro-palestinian network has become so huge that there is a job for everyone no matter where from what what uh you know what what what your background is what your experience is what your age group is there's even young children going out and protesting and coming out of schools and and causing a day strike on schools it doesn't matter everybody has to protest somehow and then there are some brave individuals who put their body on the line and and go the whole the whole way but not everyone can do that but but everybody protests in every form of manner whether it's direct action or just the placard protest or the vigil or even just leafleting from door to door these are all important and uh writing to your mp even lobbying lobbying parliament there's a place for everyone and if they're all done at the same time like we had a direct action last year where there was also a protest and a vigil going on at the same time it becomes extraordinarily powerful we had a protest on a bridge i don't know about a kilometer away we had a protest outside the factory and a direct action going on which shut the factory down at the same time and also people writing to their mps on that day and also councillors local councillors turning up to watch so when you have everyone out no matter what they're doing then um you know it's empowering you know a direct action can work on its own it probably doesn't need anything else outside of it but when you've got you know a whole host of people doing all sorts of different types of protests at the same time then the government you know it has to sit up and it has to listen you know and other people learn what's going on passers-by get involved get recruited listen to the argument everything is successful i don't think we should we should you know say one thing is better than the other but i i guess maybe i'm contradicting myself but direct action does actually work and we can see that in the fact that it's shut down three hideous toxic israeli arms factories that were being used to destroy lives in their tens and thousands and these factories have been operating for years and years and years uh unbeknown to the public so now everyone knows where they are uh so you get little sporadic protests that people set up on their own you don't need to do anything you don't need to organize people so much it's it's widely known and yes seven factories to go everyone should get on board and everyone should join palestine action because there are jobs for everyone inside that organization you don't have to do the direct action there's media there's present you know there's there's pr work there's organizing there's all sorts of other jobs that and writing articles and publishing that can be done so if you don't have the ability to lie on a free in cold tarmac for 24 hours or climb onto a roof there are other jobs and this is the thing about palestine action it's open to everyone it doesn't discriminate and uh yeah so i i advise everyone to get on board you can even just donate if you choose and not do anything else so yeah everyone
Speaker 1should get involved definitely well i'm going to put all the links in the show notes so that people can click and go straight there and i'll give them a plug at the end of this episode as well now you mentioned there about the um people lobbying their mps and i was going to ask as an intentionally naive question um why is it that our wonderful and conscientious elective representatives are doing literally nothing on this issue i think they're so invested in the israeli regime
Speaker 2they've been invested for for absolutely years they're even invested in the weapons industry they're also they get paid junkets to to go on trips to the uh occupied palestine um you know the the the uh israeli lobby is very powerful it's it's it pays out if you like to keep people quiet and i think people are in power i mean some of it is political cowardice but people in power are scared to lose their careers if they speak out against the israeli regime but i think the tide is changing because you know the genocide is getting so bad i mean 32 000 people slaughtered already um and the un and you know the icj the international court of justice already talking about genocide genocide is now being put onto the table people are starting to recognize it eventually the uk government may not be able to continue defying the will of the people it may not continue to be able to um deliver arms export licenses while the israelis are murdering british people as well you know now with the the world central kitchen massacre which i'm not going to use to to so people aren't focusing on the al-shifa massacre which is hugely worse but the point is now that the israelis have expanded their operations to killing just about anyone who just happens to be on their soil including aid workers you know it is starting to turn the tide and politicians eventually might have to swap sides and get on the right side of history because you know you know looking at elections people are wanting anybody in power that supports a genocide and so the popularity thing i think david cameron's come in on the back of this you know how can i become popular again i'll tell you what i'll start to sound as if i'm supporting palestine because that's where the will of the people is the the pro-palestinian movement is so big now that politicians are struggling to kind of continue their pro-israeli stance but that means they'll never be voted in ever again because people are saying no ceasefire no vote so um yeah it's getting hard for politicians um and obviously the the israeli lobby is is having to apply a huge amount of pressure to keep them on side but eventually you know as this genocide uh accelerates uh and gaza is in dire trouble at the moment whether or not they will continue their pro-israeli stance for much longer is is is now debatable and i think a lot of it has backfired on the israelis
Speaker 1100 yeah and i think another thing that is backfiring on the israelis as well is this shameful and see-through and completely ineffective labeling of anyone who supports palestine who opposes genocide or even vaguely disagrees with or criticizes the actions of the israeli government as an anti-semite i think that is a disgrace and i think it's a blag that has long run its cause now yeah that i think that
Speaker 2one's got a bit worn out i think um i'm not like other people that sort of sees it as a medal because i think you know let's lose the word anti-semite really you're talking about racism and actually i wouldn't want to say i'm proud to be racist so when people are saying i'm proud to be an anti-semite i think they actually have to unstitch those words because the word that's what the word anti-semite means but it's just racism and it's hatred towards jews so i don't think i want to be proud to be uh an anti-semite or proud to be racist but i i think using it as a card as a sort of get out of jail free card has um unfortunately just been used too often i mean they've accused uh francesca albanese the un special rapporteur of being an anti-semite they accused antonio guterres of the united you know the united nations chief of being anti-semitic they've accused al-jazeera for covering uh the palestinian cause on on the ground as being anti-semitic they accused unra of being anti-semitic and they've accused al-jazeera of being anti-semitic and they've accused al-jazeera of being anti-semitic there has to be a point where you say oh my god you need to stop using this as as a way of uh attack because it's no longer working what the the israelis always do is just resort to that instead of saying yeah okay we have killed 32 000 people go well well they were all hamas and they're all anti-semitic it's kind of not rubbing off on people any longer and especially with the younger generation and unfortunately what's happened is the word anti-semite has almost become uh it's it's nullified it it's washed it away and i think you know there is a real good you know we don't want to see a rise of racism we don't want a rise of anti-semitism or islamophobia to happen anywhere but if you keep on using it as a slur to silence officials as well politicians and officials uh people like david miller for example who worked at the bristol university and won his case if you keep on using it as a slur to silence officials and officials and people like david miller for example who worked at the bristol university and won his case if you keep on using it as a slur to silence officials and people like david miller for example eventually what you do is nullify it and if you nullify it then when you cry anti-semitism nobody listens and i think that's the danger of it is that um unfortunately it's an overused term because the israelis have not been held accountable they're acting with impunity and they've just shouted anti-semite at anybody who said but yeah but this is a war crime this is an atrocity what you've just committed is a massacre anti-semite and it doesn't uh it's just not holding its own any longer so there is a danger that by nullifying the term that you increase anti-semitism by mistake because people start to ignore it and i and i think maybe that's what's happening um so yeah the everything the israelis do backfires on them everything um even this genocide which has cost the lives of 32 000 so far i mean 14 000 children i think it may be a little insensitive but i think it's a little insensitive but i think it's a little insensitive to say that that is backfiring on them but it will because the popularity war has been lost i can't find anybody that would uh openly support the israeli regime at the moment even those that do are remaining silent and those that used to have come over to the palestinian
Speaker 1cause yeah they're losing the propaganda war on all fronts i mean this if what is happening is just so extreme and so obscene and so horrific on a daily basis that even those people who were storage supporters of israel's right to exist and defend itself even those guys are like wow man this is fucking way way way too much this is a literal genocide happening on our doorstep and in our times and i don't think anybody needs me or anyone to remind them of exactly what's at stake here or what's happening because it is literally in our face all day every day just the sheer scale of the horror that is happening in gaza right now but for anyone listening who needs a reminder as to why what you guys are doing is not happening is so necessary and so important could you tell them why it is that you do what you do and why it is necessary and what you think lies ahead in this particular struggle actually people haven't
Speaker 2quite even people on side aren't really waking up to um what's happening in gaza why why all of these campaigns and there's multiple campaigns and they're all having an effect and they're all very equally important however what's happening at the moment is the israelis have built what's going on in gaza which has cut north gaza from south gaza so instead of there being a central gaza it's only south and north now and the gaza uh pier or what we've been calling the gaza death port which has nothing to do with humanitarian aid but will allow israeli ships to come in with not just munitions for the israeli regime to continue its genocide but also building materials for the israelis to start building their waterfront posh properties on palestinian land the netzerim corridor effectively cuts off the north of gaza entirely so you could be talking no humanitarian aid trucks can get across the people in the north are already in a state of famine but an israeli engineered famine somebody keeps telling me to always remember to say this is a man-made famine but now we are reliant on airdrops in north gaza there is no route through to feed the people and there's seven hundred and fifty thousand at top six hundred thousand is the official figures that are still in north gaza and they are completely segregated from south gaza now what's happening in rafa is we think that eventually they are going to close the rafa crossing so all of the campaigns talking about trying to get food in and out of rafa that they're finished so the people in rafa will be pushed towards probably dirabella which they're already bombing and then they'll be forced towards this port that will be the only access in and out of gaza and what people aren't waking up to is that north gaza is probably already lost i don't mean to be pessimistic but there's no way to get anyone in or out of north gaza and these people have been eating grass for um and and sort of uh actually some other horrific things like dead rodents um weeds that aren't really palatable but also animal fodder that is literally poisoning um babies and children off and people are saying well you know how come the children always die for the children always die first in a famine this this is how it because adults just probably can eat things that children can't so we've got no baby formula going into north gaza we've got no food they're eating grass the only thing they have is the airdrops which um have not always been successful as we know but when you're reliant on airdrops we're now reliant on the jordanian royal air force to keep doing them now the israelis are starting to ban other countries taking part in the airdrops we have over 600 000 people in north gaza that actually are going to starve to death and there is no way of reaching them because of this nazarim corridor so i really want people to keep an eye on obviously the beach is gone the beach will be a military barrack so if you consider the fishing industry that that's gone that's finished the harbor is in the north our shifa hospital where all the massacres took place is in the north they're all past this tank belt so gaza is in severe trouble at the moment and people really need to focus on how we get rid of this humanitarian aid port which isn't a humanitarian aid port it could be used to forcibly exile palestinians permanently into other foreign countries who may or may not take them i can imagine hundreds of thousands of palestinians floating around in the ocean many of them drowning because no one's going to take them in that that could be the next situation or they will use it for a huge massacre where everybody is forced at gunpoint out of rafa into uh the beach area where this port is and then they will be killed because they will be seen running towards the israeli troops and they'll massacre them all the dangers of the nazarim corridor preventing palestinians from reaching family and and getting food into the waterways are huge and we really want people to take note we are hoping um that the massacres that the israelis have committed i mean 59 people were killed last night alone i think there was 117 the day before so every day it's between 70 and 100 people on average the the dangers now are we need the government to put in an arms embargo a ceasefire with a complete withdrawal of israeli troops because if a ceasefire happens we're going to have to put in an arms embargo and we're going to put in an arms embargo and we're going to have to put in an arms embargo and we're going to have to put in an arms embargo and we're going to have to put in an arms embargo and we're going to have to the withdrawal of israeli troops you've still got the nazarim corridor blocking humanitarian aid getting to the palestinians in the north so we're still going to have 600 000 people die of starvation and uh we won't be able to do anything about it so yeah there's sort of multiple dangers rafa we think is closing closing permanently that means egypt is no longer in the rafa border makes no difference the israelis again to to probably detonate or dismantle it rafa borders closing the tanks again to come and take over the philadelphia corridor which separates gaza and egypt which means the north sinai is also in danger so yeah the the gaza is in trouble what we need is a ceasefire two-way arms embargo um uh sanctions uh and we need the ceasefire to have the conditions that the israeli troops withdraw and if we don't have that then gaza is finished oh man i mean i don't i don't even have any words
Speaker 1at this point you know what i mean it's there's nothing anyone can say that hasn't been said and there's nothing that can be said that could truly express the scale of horror that is happening in gaza as we speak right now it truly is the stuff of nightmares and it could all be stopped if there was any spine in any of our politicians that could put any kind of pressure political financial militaristic on israel it could end tomorrow and this shit keeps me up at night man honestly is i can't fucking believe i'm witnessing this in my lifetime for anyone who's uh incensed by what they've heard today or is incensed by this cause generally who wants to get involved and support palestine action um please the first port of call should be to go to palestineaction.org where you can join and sign up or you can donate and help the guys that way or you can get assets to share and resources to learn from as well for in the minute updates as they happen daily please go and follow the guys at pal underscore action on twitter and it's the same address on instagram and tiktok as well please give them a follow and support them there and help to amplify everything that they're sharing on their pages and as i said there'll be a link in the show notes as well so that you can go straight there and click is there anywhere else you would like people to go and check out and follow and support
Speaker 2um yeah not wanting to sort of plug myself but i'm at s wilkinson bc and i i basically as a social media influencer it's my job to tweet every single day so so there's a wide range of news um from everything from every aspect really and i try and do about 30 to 40 posts per day and um it's horrific actually i'm sorry my account is um doom and gloom because i'm reporting on the deaths uh the massacres um palestinian prisoners uh the torture um the palestinian women two movement which is about the rape of palestinian women not just in custody but those abducted um sorry my account is doom and gloom but it's news and i try and cover everything with a press release so um occasionally uh i might drop in an opinionated tweet but but uh i do try and keep it to the press releases that are coming out it will cover what biden is doing and saying what netanyahu is doing and saying so literally every single day i mean i think i did 50 posts yesterday wow so uh and that is a daily thing i don't get a day off it's 24 7 so and then also there's the twitter spaces we we run twitter spaces to give palestinians in gaza a chance to speak and a chance to say from their perspective what's happening and so you hear tales of starvation uh one man buried 39 members of his family these are not easy um places there's there's not easy spaces to have to listen to but you get it from a palestinian on the ground so it's not just us white is talking about the palestinian cause we're in contact with several uh what have become amateur journalists because the journalists are gone or they've been killed or they've been banned so we're listening to actual palestinians who are trying to survive but then they know that the next day they've got to survive that survival and and so you hear it directly from them so yeah um another account to follow would be uh leila hatoum which is at leila h1 uh ny plaid is doing the search on the netzerim corridor um and he's at ny plaid ny plaid and my colleague shamim suleiman um at shamim suleiman that should come up straight away all these people on twitter are trying to cover what's going on in in palestine oh and there's one other thing there's the no thanks boycott um a man called ahmed bashbash who's also palestinian he has created an app which you download for free take it in the shop scan everything you buy it either goes yes or it is a big red screen and it says no it's an israeli product don't buy this so the no thanks app which and you literally just put no thanks boycott and that and it will come up and that's that's on uh available for both android and also for uh apple phones and uh it's absolutely a brilliant app honestly it changes your diet because i've been buying a product thinking yeah no guilt free this isn't a israeli product only to find that all these years i've been buying an israeli product so i've had to change uh and i only have a little shop so i've actually had to change my diet to fit in with this app but yeah it's brilliant and uh everybody should get it it's free you don't have to pay for it so the no thanks app you can't miss it that's another thing to get on board because then we're boycotting the israeli regime in our thousands and millions as well so yeah whole multitude of people to follow there and
Speaker 1sorry about that amazing no plug away i'm gonna put a link to the app as well because i have heard of the app and then i got so much content coming at me i forgot to check it out um so i've made a note i'll put the link to the show notes for that as well um sarah thank you so much before we go i ask you a personal question because you did mention there that you're putting out a lot of very you know horrific content at such a mass scale because of what you're doing for a living and what you're involved in personally as well how do you keep yourself how do you how do you check your own mental health and keep
Speaker 2yourself okay during all of this um not i'm not doing very well at the moment i've lost um some quite close friends recently um it's very hard to grieve um because if you're grieving you're taking away the pain that belongs to the palestinians and so i feel that i can't talk to another palestinian about it because you know they're burying their children they're not going to want to hear about me losing a friend so um i've actually found it very difficult um i've even been on a retreat to try and um get to a place where i could move on it's hard um so i'm not i am struggling a little bit i i'm i'm losing gaza i'm losing the people that i have worked with for years and i'm watching it and i'm watching my government do nothing i'm watching my government do nothing i'm watching my government abstain from ceasefire resolutions or vote against them and uh the anger and the fury is is kind of hard you have to um have a very strong network which i do and you have to be able to ring people and say right i'm not doing okay today i i've just lost uh another journalist and i i can't move on and i have to keep tweeting while i'm doing that i have to keep posting as if it hasn't happened and um you know there are there are bad days and there are good days but i still have to do it 24 7 because that's now how i see i'm working for palestine that is my job and it's become a full-time job but yeah dealing with the grief and bereavement you have to kind of keep it quiet when you're around palestinians because it's their grief look they've been occupied they've had everything stolen from them they've had their food and their culture stolen i'm not going to steal their grief but at the same time i i have to find someone who's prepared to listen um and we're all in the same boat this is the thing whoever you speak to they've also lost somebody the day before or they've lost the same person because we're all connected it's really difficult it's getting harder um and i know that there's a lot of people with secondary ptsd from the genocide a lot of people have actually closed their accounts just to have like a proper week's break how i see it is we don't have time to have a week's break really i should take some time out but i can't because every day there's another massacre and it has to be reported and that's just my job and if the palestinian can face bullets and bombs every single day live on a diet of grass and bury their children in the middle of the road because there's no land left then i can i can deal with a
Speaker 1little bit of ptsd sarah you're a hero for what you're doing we appreciate you we respect you and we hope that you're you know you you look after yourself as well because if you break that's that's one less hero on the front lines isn't it you know and um this cause needs you so thank you for everything you're doing thank you for being with us today stay safe stay strong and free palestine thank you free palestine oh man that was uh it's a tough listen isn't it you know what i mean it's like we all know what's happening we see it you know on social media we see it on the news we it's impossible to avoid this issue right now and neither should we but it's still there's just no way you can compute or process what is happening and it's just it's just it's just it's what is happening you know what i mean it's just it is easily the worst thing i've witnessed in my entire life it's the worst global event that i've witnessed and i'm just witnessing it you know i'm just sitting here talking about it on a fucking podcast and it just keeps me up at night i can't believe that i'm seeing this shit that this is happening and then it's totally okay that the world leaders are just chin wagging about it you know i'm back and forth on some fucking technicality rather than just doing anything and whatever they can to enforce an immediate ceasefire this is madness this is literal psychopathic madness you cannot just get away with this i didn't think you could but apparently you can it disturbs me deeply man it really really does none of our fucking leaders can ever claim to have a moral high ground or a conscience or a spine or values or principles or things that they believe in ever again if you can't call for a ceasefire in gaza with everything that's happening right now you my friend are not fit for office you're probably not fit to be walking around unsupervised in society but look i'm not gonna be able to say any better than sarah did you know and she's out there doing it making a difference whereas i'm just chatting shit on the podcast so i'm going to um bow out gracefully because this shit really really gets under my fucking skin i'm gonna plug the links one more time palestine action please support everything they're doing these are brave people putting their lives and their safety and their careers and their personal lives on the line they deserve all of this and i'm not gonna be able to say it any better than sarah did you know and of our support please go to palestineaction.org they are on twitter at pal underscore action the same on instagram and tiktok they are on facebook at palestine action network please go and join all of their pages get involved and at the very least please share their updates and their campaigns to help normalize this resistance and to show that you support them if you want to get directly involved there will be a way that you can contact them through the website you can also donate there as well if you want to help them out if you want to help them out please go to palestineaction.org and support that way as sarah mentioned she can be found on twitter at s wilkinson bc she's got a ton of followers on there and she shares a ton of content every day which gives you up-to-date in the minute updates on this issue please go and show her some love as well and thanks to you for listening as always you know it seems shallow to be plugging a fucking podcast at times like these but if you could give me a subscribe and a follow and a star rating and a comment and all that sort of stuff that would really help me out as well if you're listening to this on youtube please jump into the comments and share your views on all of these issues because you know we'd always love to hear what you guys think and i'll be back next week with another episode with another brilliant guest in the meantime as always take care of yourselves take care of each other and free palestine
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