'60 Minutes' Meltdown, Trump's Intel Chief Pick, and Apple’s Next Big Bet

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New episodes of Happy Hour are available every Wednesday. You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Cheers. Hi, Sue Bird here. I've got another brand new episode of Bird's Eye View for you this week. Join me on the pod is Washington Mystics Point Guard, Georgia Amor. We talk about the lesson she learned from the Mystics first playoff push since 2023, making the most of her skillset given her size, and what it would mean to make the Australian national team. Check out Bird's Eye View on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. You know, it's like someone coming to me and saying, "I think you need to lead the New York Knicks to victory." It's like, "No." Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. And I'm Scott Calaway. Oh, Scott, you so owe me. I do owe you. You kind of came through. Explain for the people. I came through. You delivered one of my heroes. Yeah. I did. Right to you. On a silver gold platter. So, we're fifth and last final city of our five city, Profty Markets Tour, and in New York. Obviously important, because, you know, this is what I consider, I don't know, the center of the universe. Yeah. It's important. And sold out, and we started talking about Iran. And the voice that God comes over, and it's Cara Swisher going, "You don't know what you're talking about." And then she comes out, and everyone goes crazy. People like, people like Cara, and she goes, "You don't know what you're talking about. Well, that's not helpful. Who should we have?" And she goes, "Well, I brought a friend, and then Secretary Clinton comes walking out." Hillary Clinton. Yeah. She got a stand. She got like a two-minute standing ovation. She did. People like her. Yeah. People like her. And she was, you know what? I'm curious to get your thoughts. But, A.L. was very intimidated, but too- You were. You didn't hit your jack, I noticed. But go ahead. Yeah. But too. I got really sad. I just thought it took me back to ten years. Yeah. How would the nation be different if we had elected- Just someone that's intelligent. So- Secretary Clinton. Yeah. And you don't know, right? Maybe America needed a weirdness to bounce back stronger, which is my silver lining here hopefully. But it just be interesting to try and game theory out how the world would look different right now. Yeah. You just never know. She might have gotten this on war. Who knows? I mean, what was really interesting was how she thinks in paragraphs, like her intelligence is so- The reason I thought she'd be good for this is because we don't know what we're talking about and we're talking about. And she does. In the room with these people, whether it's Ukraine, she's been in that deal. She's been, she understands and can really game it out, too, and it really does understand. And one of the things that, you know, she doesn't get the credit for how pressing she was about Donald Trump, too. She called all of it. Like if you go back, the thing she was saying about him and it wasn't just campaigned fripery, she was like nearly perfect accuracy of what would happen because she's such a- And one of the things that's amazing about her is that, you know, she's gone through shit and she's done some things, you know, look, she's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, all manner of stuff. And I don't think you can be in public office without the stuff hanging off of you in some fashion. And she shouldn't, you know, have to answer for her husband all the time, by the way, especially, you know, remember the Epstein stuff, she's like, why am I even here? I didn't, I didn't sleep with underage young women or whatever. But I thought she was, what she did, displays is an incredible, she does her fucking homework. I guess that's what I'm trying to get out. Yeah, there's definitely, again, I think hard work character and competence, I'm hoping it makes a comeback. She was known when she was a senator from New York. She had a reputation among colleagues on both sides of the aisle, like I'm just working really hard. She does. And I also said at the, when she left the stage when we're talking about her, talk a lot about role models for young men and an absence of great role models at a kind of federal level. And, you know, masculinity and femininity are social constructs and we get to fill them with whatever associations we want. And we talk about, we talk about her being a great role model for young women. I think she's a great role model for young men, service, strengths, intellect, working hard. She's amazing. She, she just brings it and it's really, and she's actually, I hate to say softened up, but she's starting to get that at Hillary Clinton backstage starting to be on stage now. Well, she's got zero fucks to give. She gives zero. And also just something you brought up. And that is, I do think a lot of times, I think some calls for sexism or calling out sexism to sometimes overdone in one instance where it's underdone or it doesn't get enough reporting. If she had been on Epstein's Island, people wouldn't be harassing Bill, trying asking him to explain why she was on the aisle. That's right. No one would, you know, if Graham Plattener's wife had been sexting, no one would be getting him a hard time. There is a, there is a, that double standard is on full display when she gave testimony and village idiot representative Bober started asking about her husband in Epstein. It's like, well, okay. Ask him. Ask him. You have the power of subpoena or whatever the hell it is. Ask him. Yeah, she was good. I love, I love that Hillary. Anyway, I'm glad to do that. I'm glad it was great. I'm glad that you had a successful run, you know what I did today. What did you do? I was on the view. Oh, you're on the view. Yeah. You were a guest host. How was that? You went to chair. Good. I'm going to do it again tomorrow. I was middle chair. It was so much fun. I love that. I like the whole team of them. Sunny and Alyssa and I did know Sarah. She was amazing. And it was great. I have Joy Bajar's seat. Joy Bajar's seat. She's doing some show in Paris or some writers festival or something. I love that team there. As I've said, they're so professional. You know what? I always complain about going on the cable shows where they yell at each other and I don't like it. These are good conversations, actually. They're really good conversations. And I really appreciate it. And people try to come, I think it's because of whoopie Goldberg. They try to come to some sort of, not agreement, but just like, she doesn't tolerate shitty conversations. And I really appreciate that. I like it. And the whole, the entire show is so well produced. And I just enjoyed it quite a bit. And it was funny because this guy who's in, I'm going to gals a teen, he's in the new He-Man movie and he was on a bunch of great movies. And he's very, very handsome and all the audience started screaming for him and it was fantastically fun. They have live audience, which I like too. Yeah. Like I said, they give great TV. They're very good at what they do. Yeah. I love the ladies of the view and I love them. That's a good seat for you. It is a good seat for me. Maybe I'll just stay there and never leave. Anyway. And reminder, I'm taping a live interview, by the way, of on with Cara Swisher at the Tribeca Film Festival here in New York on Monday, June 8th. That's next week. I'll be talking to comedian actor and podcast by near Mark Marin, which I'm very excited about. He's the original gangster of podcasting. He's great. He's amazing. He's also an actor, comic and everything else. Tick-A-Zervill, now at Tribecafilm.com/audio. Anyway, I like being in New York. I like it. Are you staying for a little bit? Are you? Yeah, I'm going to, I think I'm going to be here a week and then I got a stock home and then, yeah, so I'm, by the way, it's beautiful here. It's beautiful. You know, I don't, it's so funny. There's always predictions, you know, pandemics hit, a bunch of hedge funders leave, crime goes up, and everyone, everyone talks about the death of New York. I walk around New York right now. No, fucking why? There's a line to get in the Berk and Stocks store. There was a line at the soft ice cream store, the other, like I was trying to mix jankers and bonuses are at all time highs, crime, by the way, in New York is at historic lows. I mean, if this is what, the next, the next might win the finals, right? But if this is what a decline looks like, I'd love to see what prosperity looks like. And I've said for a long time that you don't recognize you're in a golden age, till 20 or 30 years later, I think people are going to look back on New York in this era, post COVID, New Restaurants, and the ultimate luxury item, I said this last night at the podcast or on the tour, the ultimate luxury item is in a home in Aspen or a Gulfstream. It's being 28 and having, figuring out a way to live in New York and knowing that every time you leave your house, your life could change. You could find someone to fund your business, you could find a co-founder, you could find just some incredible, inspiring pieces of art or culture, you could find someone you end up marrying. It's a great city on earth, it really is, and I love a lot of cities, but it is the greatest city on earth. And it's not, people talk about ingenuity being a function of technology, it's not. It's a function of proximity and density. And the reality is in New York, there's 8 million people getting in each other's way and I say that as a feature not a bug Yeah, you can't help but not bump off of people constantly Yeah, and it's the opposite of what ails I think America or especially young people is a lack Right a bumping off of other people. I agree empty sidewalks This I get so annoyed by the fog and sidewalks here now, but I'm kind of liking them right like I'm like Oh my god. Can I get up the street without anywhere? People everywhere and I'm here. There's two types of people in New York rich kids And people trying really hard that are really talented And workers and Anyway, we love New York and we're here. We're here. We're appearing in New York this week Anyway, we're not gonna be hanging out, but we are appearing. I guess you don't want to come to my award tomorrow I'm getting an award illegal award lambda. They already tried to hit me up for money. Oh, okay You didn't can't tell this story. Yeah sure very quick. Hi good news. Cara's being honored by lambda We'd like you to donate a hundred thousand dollars and we'll put a paddle up with a hundred thousand dollar number on it I'm like I wrote back. I'm like you're clearly not in fundraising. You know, don't just don't just shove your tongue down my throat I mean tell me I'm pretty first I'll also say I'll surround you with beautiful lesbians and a table who will fuck you And I'm like I'm like I wrote back and I'm like thanks, but I'm gonna pass. Yeah. Yeah good That's okay. I'm sorry Cara. I I like you, but I don't like you that much. Anyway, it's a great award Actually, pre-barara is gonna be giving it to me had they known you were in New York They might have asked you, but pre-it is gonna do it because he's that guy. Yeah, that's that's a that's enough grade He looks more credible. Anyway, uh the big story in media this week is 60 minutes corresponded Scott Pellies out at cbs Pellies firing came after you accuse cbs news chief Barry wise of murdering 60 minutes according to leaked audio from staff Many also told the shows new EP Nick built in a long-time tech journalist of bill markers someone I know that his qualifications run 60 minutes that run six minutes for slender that is accurate Built and sent Pellie a letter on Tuesday saying he'd been terminated for cause effective immediately It was terribly written letter Nick. It really was embarrassment to you Barry wise later sent an editorial call that Pellie was fired because of foundation of trust had been broken after his firing Though Pellie wrote in a statement in confidence and unprofessionalism and the new management have wreaked havoc He also wrote a response to her letter and what she was saying to the staff and then recounted word for word He looks like he must have taken notes during the whole thing Exactly what happened and said basically call them liars about that they didn't try to get together I thought Pellie they should not mess with this guy. He's a really good reporter and they are they're they're being disingenuous I think mandatious actually This is the guy Tom whatever his name is all of them. They're just they're really They're Lathering themselves in dishonor 60 minutes has been on the earth since 1968. I just you know, you're not a media person This is of course illuminating media people one of my disappointments here is the journalism is getting lost in all of this drama This is not this is not nobody's talking about the stories which is what 60 minutes has been Estonishing about and the fact that they could just that he was asking normal questions Why did you fire all these really good people including Tonya Simon who ran the show and took it to new heights Why did you fire these other correspondence Also Cecilia Vega and Sharon Alfonci. Why did you fire them and they wouldn't give an answer and I think it's very appropriate that he asked and they were trying to act like he was like that he was throwing a tantrum He absolutely was not that I'm sorry. He wasn't he was being a reporter So your thoughts. Yeah, I don't so you know my view I think media and journalists tend to think they're more precious than they are And I don't buy the notion that journalism is I understand that the chill that the Trump administration is trying to put on Different outlets and I have heard from producers that it has created a chill But I've said this before I wish the Washington Post would just go away already I'm sick of talking about it because I do think the most talented journalist I think there's a huge echo system of interesting companies doing great work In 60 minutes I think the world would survive without it having said that I just look at it through a business lens Well, you're in an industry that's instructional decline and you have a product that's up 9% you're on year You don't fuck with it right and Billy and doing well digitally that was just very Disingenuous in their memos. It's doing very well digitally actually It's literally like okay Phil Jackson's job with the Chicago Bulls wasn't to be the boss and disrupt the Bulls It was to get along with Michael Jordan right the job of CBS management right now is to get along with 60 minutes I think it's a little more serious in that because I think you're leaving out the Trump thing I each of these people have said that these These particular managers are trying to fuck with the stories to try to shade them pelly is making this allegation Sharon made this allegation publicly Cecilia Vega made this at these are very professional people. These are the top of their game, right? It's not like whiny right that's they're not being whiny righteous. They're like what are you doing like these are they're doing great work And then you fuck with them like because and then excuses and by the way, I'm sorry I don't know Barry wise. I do know Nick builten none You are not qualified compared to these people. I wouldn't be qualified to run this right like the fact that they think they can give Instructions to these people I I wouldn't have the arrogance to think I was better than them and the excuse they're using is that The excuse they're using is that well, we're gonna we're gonna fix it before it goes downhill. That's their excuse Well, it's inevitably gonna go downhill and therefore we're gonna fix it Let me tell you I have more digital experience than both of you and you are You have don't know what you're talking about because first of all you're being disingenuous about their digital stuff Which is doing okay and secondly This is not the way to do it by wrecking it this wreck it in order to save the village We're gonna bomb the village to save the village This is nonsense on every level and I am someone who knows more than both of them put together and I still have room for more And I'm a I'm an actual journalist. Nick is a journalist I'm still higher on the food chain than he is I'm sorry and One of the things is that they're not talking about the journalism and these three people that they fired and Tony assignment are amazing Journalists and they should thank them for their existence and instead because they need to shade things with the try and I do believe these reporters They're trying to shade the news in in service of Trump and therefore there are minions to the powerful owners who own them Which are the elephants and that's where the real problem is is these people Are these people are have a whole nother game going on and it's it's take to take a product like this that is not broken and break it is At some point you have to wonder what it's all about They've decided to perform open-heart surgery on the healthiest person in the franchise. Yeah, it's a excellent way to put it and I I don't know Nick well, but I've been on his podcast. I think he's a talented piece a talented journalist. I don't But in my view I'm not sure a journalist should be running it. I think it should be a Jeff Zuckerlite character who has tremendous respect for journalism But quite frankly, it's just a really strong manager. I think the person that shows up to 60 minutes says How can I help well done? Call me when you went how how can I help but the what the the narrative they're putting out there is the following You disrupt from a point of strength Okay As someone who teaches strategy these people don't they're using the wrong words Disruptors are small companies that go after fat encumbments and start eating up from a small niche And typically To say that is to say that will CBS news which is hemorrhaging people should stay the course then What I think the word he's looking for there's some excuse if he said It's an amazing place. We want to continue what we're doing But we're also just we don't ever want to be fat and happy. We want to innovate He's using the wrong words The last thing you do at you the one place that's working is disrupt it That's not that's not what you do, but I want to move on. I've got an idea and I'm I'm literally going to text Ted Surandos. I think there's an enormous opportunity if I were Ted Surandos I hire all these people. Yeah, I would call Scott Pelley and Anderson Cooper and saying I'm going to pay each of you 10 million dollars You hire whoever the fuck you want including executive producer and Netflix is going to put out something called the hour And it's going to be every week. Yeah, that's our online. Yeah, I think it's a great. We are going to move on This is the only thing I have to say is this is not how you fix this is not what you do and by the way Here's what I would the advice I would give is let's see what you can do so far the results are bad at CBS Everything's going down down down your shows are losing people the other shows By the way, ABC and NBC are gaining so you're doing something your changes are not working Secondly, and again, I like Nick built and I do I do I know a lot of people he's very controversial He gets a lot of attacks. I like Nick built and he needs to show results If you're going to do something don't come and tell everybody Like give them lectures about digital disruption make changes make them with respect And have just let's see the results this feels so chris liktian that the key kept talking more than he was doing And so I feel like results are all that matter get in there do good journalism And then come out the other side and otherwise and again, I'm sorry I'm not qualified to run this place and these people should not be running this place. That's I don't know what else to say To be fair And you know these people better than I do I think Nick I think they poured honey on Nick and sent him hunting for correct. I think I sent him into for him They sent him into an impossible situation right and And I would like to hear Nick's side of this story quite frankly and I think he's coming on the pod. Mm-hmm but Look the only way this person is successful well, is to show up and say just a few things. I will quit the moment you come to me and say, protect me from outside political influences that are hurting my journalism. I will, I will be your heat shield. Right. That's not what's happening here. I agree. But I think he needs to say that. Yeah. And if he can't, if he can't say that, he shouldn't, he shouldn't take the job. And two, I recognize this, this institution is more storied and more credible than my resume right now. I am a talented, thoughtful person. I'm going to do my best to provide you with the resources and the ideas. Should you want them to make this an even stronger institution? But you call me. I get it. I still don't, I think qualifications matter. And you need to hire someone who has more qualifications in this area who's done television, who's managed big teams. That's, I'm sorry, you just, you don't just give a job, like you just don't, you just don't. And again, full of great, interesting ideas. I agree with you. But you don't give a job to someone who doesn't have the experience to run it. And I'm going to, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there have probably been people with, with lesser qualifications who've also been asked to run important media properties. This isn't about, this isn't as much about his qualifications. It's about the context and how they've gone about this. If this had been a different situation at different time, and someone with that, those qualifications had come in and said, look, I promise to protect you from outside political influence that gets in the way of your journalism. I realize I'm in over my head. I hope your patient with me, I'm going to do my best to help you continue. I think that person could be successful, distinctive their lack of a qualification. If he was working for people who haven't been accused of meddling, you know, I mean, and, and the else. But that's, but that's not him. That's a bigger issue. But he's worried. He took the job with them. So anyway, it's not next fall. You're absolutely right. It's not. But what you're saying is it's doom, anyone's doomed. And that might be a fair point that there's no way for anyone to be successful in that role right now. I think in this case, it is. I think they have another, there's another game of foot here that is nothing to do with, they want to wreck this thing. That's my, that's saying it's being, it's being turned into, and this is, this is the most damning thing. Several people have said of X to the organization. It's being perverted and queer from a great journalistic operation that is arguably one of the most successful. Perhaps as a successful TV show of its kind in history, it's being used basically to become propaganda for the Trump administration. That's correct. That's correct. And I, I, for, I usually go away from those things, but it feels like Edward Armer, I remember when he got screwed, you know what I mean? Like, this is, it has that feel to it. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. But let me just tell you, Scott, and I don't know Scott. I, I, I don't know Cecilia, although I am portling for the meter, I think Sharon's, like, is terrific. They're all terrific journalists. And I believe them, I'm sorry. I believe them over, they're just really good. And all the people there. And I've talked to lots of people at, that's, Netflix presents the hour. Yeah. I love it. The hour, the hour. How about 59 minutes, 30, 600 seconds? 70, 600 seconds. You know, this, this is idea of lack of qualifications. I'm sorry. I'm, I'm sort of obsessed with it. President Trump named Bill Polti, who runs the Federal Housing Finance Agency as the new acting director of national intelligence, replacing Tulsi Gabbard, who's stepping down. Polti is best known for accusing several of Trump's enemies of mortgage fraud, none of which went anywhere, including New York, AG, Latissia James. He has no, no experience in intelligence. I'm not sure he's intelligent defense or national security. He's called little Trump. That's his qualifications. It's unclear whether Trump will ask the Senate to confirm Polti by law. Anyone nominated for this role must have extensive national security expertise. Republicans are attacking him. You saw several Republicans saying he has no expertise, Democrats, especially like our friend Mark Warner is losing his mind over this. This, this, this, this, it's not the same. Nick is very competent, but this guy is incompetent. This guy is incompetent at this job and all he does is like, you know, he's, he like steps on a rake every five minutes and hits his head. I mean, and the same thing with Todd Blanche, who Trump caved on his slush fund, acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, Trump's personal attorney says the DOJ is abandoning plans for that 1.8 billion dollar fund to compensate people who claim they're unfairly investigated. It was a rare instance of congressional Republicans pushing back and winning. Trump is still getting carte blanche on his tax issues through this deal. I can't believe that while we're giving him free, a free pass there. Your thoughts? So some context. The reason the position was created, the director of national intelligence was after 9/11. Policy makers concluded that there was a lack of coordination amongst our 18 intelligence agencies. So there was, there was really, there was really great intelligence pre 9/11 that something like this might happen, but the lack of coordination meant the right information didn't bubble up to the right people in time. And I don't think it's fair to call him an incompetent. He's just not qualified, which is kind of the same thing, but I, incompetent to this task. Agreed. Agreed. So let's just, let's just review the past directors of national intelligence, their background. So let's start with Tulsi Gabbard to be fair. Combat veteran, military officer, member of Congress, House Armed Services Committee. Avril Haynes, deputy CIA director, deputy national security advisor, John Rackliffe, congressman, House Intelligence Committee member, former federal prosecutor. Dan Coats. Now we had it a CIA, by the way. Dan Coats, senator, ambassador to Germany, member of the senate intelligence committee, James Clapper, former undersecretary defense for intelligence, decades of military intelligence, Dennis Blair, four star admiral, former commander of U.S. Pacific Command, overseeing, uh, Indo-Pacific military operations, Mike McConnell, former director of the NSA, vice admiral, career intelligence professional, John Negripont, 40-year diplomat, ambassador to Iraq, you and ambassador, director of national intelligence, created after 9/11 reforms and bill Palti. I'm going to say this. He's a rich kid. He'll build fucking homes and fort Myers. Yeah, that's right. And he might be a nice man. He might be very competent. He might be a brilliant businessman. He's 38 and he picks out sub-zero's for homes and retirement communities and skills. That's a big job. That's a big job. Well, okay. No, I'm teasing. It's not a notion that we're going to put, look, this is going to put our, our, our, our, our service men and service women in, in, in, in, in, in danger unnecessarily and recklessly, too. Do you think the Mossad or MI6 are going to continue to share information with our intelligence agencies? They must be cheering in Russia and China right now. They must be cheering. This is, this is again, one of the most dangerous things. And also, I, I think the American public has guilty of this. I don't think the American, I think the American public has taken for granted the depth, experience, and commitment of what is the best performing organization in the world and that is the US government and how deep the expertise is, expertise, yes, of people who decide to forego a lot of wealth and lifestyle to go to work for our, our intelligence community, our government, our diplomatic core, our defense department. And we're putting in, in one of the most dangerous thing that is now starting to bubble up as we see in missteps in Iran and, and other places. They're unprepared for their meetings. They're sending in Jared Kushner and Steve Whitcoff. Are you kidding? They are, this is what Hillary was saying. They're running circles around us. The Iranians send in, like, very qualified people to these negotiations. And instead, we send in people that didn't have any idea they were going to close the straight of her moves. Like, why would it occur to them since they're not, this is, this lack of expertise. And I'm, it is a real thing. It's like, you know, it's like someone coming to me and saying, I think you need to lead the New York Knicks to victory. It's like, no, like, I have no qualifications to do so. And this kind of thing, the reason he was hired two reasons, I think, is one. He's, listen, I don't think he's a nice person. I've seen him interview. He, he seems like an idiot. But besides, he seems like a pompous ass. I think he was selected so Trump can control the whole thing. He has to put these unqualified minions into place. It's always the case with anyone who puts someone who's not qualified in place, which is they want to control the situation. And Trump himself is unqualified to run this situation, too, by the way. And, and this is what happens. And that's very dangerous. Same thing with Todd Blanch. He was his lawyer. And now he's doing his gut work for him, essentially. This, this, this slush fund, are you kidding? Like giving him, you know, carte blanche in taxes. Terrorist immunization fund. Correct. That's correct. Yeah. The private militia fund is what I call it. Yeah, I, I never miss an opportunity to try and sound important. I've been on a bunch of public boards and a general unwritten rule. So think about it. The CEO answers to a board that's supposed to be a fiduciary for all shareholders. The president, everyone needs a boss. Everyone should and does answer to somebody. The president no longer answers to co-equal branches of government. Republican Congress has been neutered. You know, the speaker of the house is basically just doing, he's just doing the dirty work for the president. He's not, he's not in any way giving his Republican colleagues a seat at the table here. He's trying to run rough shot over them based on what the president wants. The Supreme Court, I would argue, has been politicized. I think a series of appointments have created certain decisions that I would argue don't have a hell of a lot of fidelity to the Constitution but to conservative values or what the president wants. Not always. I do think they do hold a line on some things, but I would argue that it is no longer oversight for the president. The only people that provide any sort of checks and balance for Trump right now are voters and the The first thing you notice on a board, one of the first things you notice with experience board members in terms of how they evaluate a CEO, is a lot of CEOs have had to be in a closet and a knife fight for so long to get to where they are, that a lot of CEOs have a tendency to shoot talented people on their team who might be the next CEO. And you end up with a talented CEO who has a really weak infrastructure of senior managers. And one of the first tests on a board to see if a CEO is a good CEO, is how often is he bringing in highlighting and praising other senior managers. And if he were, or she were to get hit by a bus, if you're running a public company and there are two or three people that could potentially be the CEO, you are not a CEO. And you see it all the time, you see these CEOs who all of a sudden start shooting talent to people who are recruited away to go be the CEO of another company, because it was clear that they were not, your job as a CEO is to mainly say to the most talented people, I'm going to be here three, four, eight years and if you stick around, there's a shot, you're going to be CEO. And I'm going to help prepare you to be CEO of this company or somewhere else. That never happens. It always happens this way. They always sort of, a mass power, they don't want to be replaced. They shoot their minions in the head just so they can see. I've worked with some CEOs who are very good at maturing, maturing managers and recognize it's a responsibility to, I think Tim, I think Apple has five potential CEOs in the management place. But I'm going to say more common is the CEO who cannot be replaced is, but a good board, a good board makes that part of the compensation criteria. Right. Are you, are you putting in place really strong succession planning here? The president, I mean, it's just, it's just insane. There is absolutely, I just love the fact that everyone's talking about Rubio or Vance. Rubio and Trump is fucking Chernobyl. If you stick around him long enough, you die of political leukemia, the notion that he gives a shit, he doesn't, he would rather, he would rather see the Republican party burned to the ground. I, that's what I now believe because he doesn't care. He doesn't care. We give a shit about the Republican party or ideas. I'm like waiting for him to like invade, I don't know, new work or something. He wants everyone to go, oh, he wants everyone to say, oh, this Republican party is nothing without Trump. We're rather see them go down and flames. He'd rather see AOC president than JD Vance. He wants it to go down in flames because he wants it not to outlive him. Anyway, it really interesting time, but please, people who aren't qualified don't do jobs. Don't, don't, don't, don't. Lisa national security. I say go for jobs you're not qualified for unless it's the DNI. Let me just tell you, guess what? You would do a better job is director of national security. You keep saying that as an example of how terrible Trump administration, is this after, is this after I run for mayor of Los Angeles? That's the last job you could be a good job. I think you'd be good at that. Anyway. Mayor of Los Angeles has no power. It's a terrible job. It's almost impossible to govern that city. Exactly. That's why we need to put you there because you can swan around with the rich people and you love an Oscar party. Do you like that? I do like swanning. Can I just say speaking of Oscar parties? So I was at this dinner for the Trebekah Film Festival and Batman, they were sitting two doors down, like two seats down, and she listened to pivot and she's lovely, by the way. She's great. And she leans over Bloomberg to me and she goes, let me just tell you something, and her blood, middle voice. And she goes, I don't want you to get a big head. You went to the Oscar party, Cara, and I'm like, oh, I didn't go to the Oscar party. I said that. I said, bit midler. It was Scott that went to the Oscar party and she goes, oh, you know, she does that voice of hers. She goes, oh, I still don't want you to get a big head. And I'm like, I didn't go to the Oscar party. I stayed home. I watched the Oscar with my kids. Like, totally, I got accused of Scott things by bit midler. Well, if it makes you feel any better, at about 1130, I got anxious and I went home and rated the minibar and drank myself to sleep. Okay. All right. Anyway, let's go on a quick break when we come back California primary results. One app for accounting. Another for inventory. Another for sales. And somehow. None of them talk to each other. That's where auto comes in. And all in one business management software that brings every part of your business together. From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs and best of all, no spreadsheets. Try for free today at odu.com/vox. That's odl.com/vox. Music can give us goosebumps. It makes me feel as if I have my hand on the electric wine. It can make us cry. It's like a magical spell. It can even make us move. The part of the brain that you'd use to plan movement is also active when you're listening to music with a beat. This week on Unexplainable, how does music do this to us? I talk to Sylvan Essos, Amelia Meef, and a scientist who studies music cognition to find out. Follow unexplainable wherever you listen. What if we told you there was one thing you could eat to reduce your risk of death by about a quarter? Interested? And what if we added that this magical substance can dramatically lower your cholesterol, improve your mood, and keep your weight stable? No, it's not protein. It's actually fiber. The least sexy, most overlooked nutrient of all. But what is fiber? How could one nutrient do all those amazing things? And how can you get enough? Is a powder you stir into some water going to do it for you? All that plus the strange tale of the gorilla poop obsessed father of corn flakes in the latest episode of Gastropod. Find Gastropod and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Scott, we're back with more news. Let's get into the primary season of California. What a fucking mess this is. As we record and Wednesday, ballots for California's governors race are still being counted with the Republican, Steve Hilton, and Democratic Xavier of the Sarah in the lead in Los Angeles mayor, Karen Bass holds the lead in results, but it became the city's first sitting mayor since 2005 to fail to earn 50% of votes required to avoid a runoff. As we tape the race for the second runoff spot is too close to call with Spencer Pratt currently in the lead. Let's listen to a clip we got from co-founder of Run for Something, Amanda Litman about the situation. Hi, Cara. Hi, Scott. So I will say it's still a little early to have some hot takes on the California election results. At the end of the day, today on Wednesday, however, a few things I am noticing, how much money does or does not matter? Tom Steyer spent upwards of $200 million of his own dollars on this campaign, maybe more. Seems like unless the results come back differently and the ballots are counting now, he's not going to make it to November. Meanwhile, down in LA, Spencer Pratt, even if he doesn't make it all the way to the runoff, we'll see how these ballots come in for Nithya, really modeled a new way of doing this. Like a viral user generated AI videos, breaking through with really authentic video, capitalizing on the honestly, candidate agnostic media ecosystem, the right has built. We have to be prepared for this. We cannot just spend our way into victory. We have to capture attention in order to win. That means interesting candidates, that means engaging messages. That means sometimes a little bit more risk tolerance. We've got to be willing to lean in and be a little bit more unscripted. And that's something that is very, very hard for Democrats to do, but is the only way we're going to be able to capture the voters we need this fall. Interesting. That's very smart. I agree with her. I got to say, we talked to this little sort of about Graham Platner. The same thing is that, you know, you're going to expect perfection or results essentially. Thoughts on this? Thoughts on this situation in California? My son voted for Tom Steyer. Interesting, I think. I shouldn't say that, but I think that's who he voted for. Actually, people, the story will be about Tom Steyer couldn't spend a quarter of a billion dollars to get into a run-off. It reminds me a little bit of McWitman's campaign for a little bit. Oh, yeah. Do you remember that? And that is on paper. They're very attractive candidates. But for whatever reason, they just don't resonate with voters. And I actually think it's a good thing when the biggest funder, it doesn't win. I think that that's actually a positive. But the biggest loser in this wasn't Tom Steyer. It's the California Democratic establishment. Nobody is the bluest, large state in America, yet the dominant issues weren't about bodily autonomy, Trump or democracy. It was affordability, housing, energy costs, insurance, homelessness. And when voters are talking about quality of life issues and cost of living, ideology takes a backseat to competence and Democrats are not perceived as the party of commerce and national candidates need to take a page here and start a JB Pritzker is really focused on shit like upgrading the bond rating of Illinois bonds. That shit's important. It's boring, but it's really important. So the story will be stired. Just prove money is is overrated right now. If you're not a compelling candidate. And Hilton's success is a symptom, not the story. He's not winning because California became conservative overnight. He's benefiting again from something much more dangerous for Democrats who think the current model just isn't working. So what does California have right now? The highest housing cost in America, some of the highest energy prices, persistent homelessness despite enormous spending net out migration over much of the last decade. And you know, these are governance problems, not ideological problems. And Hilton, into a lesser extent, Pratt are vessels for that frustration. I think that's a very cany way to put it. They aren't they aren't they aren't something fresh. They're not rushing towards them, they're reacting against something. This is why mothers voted for Trump who have traditionally voted Democrats. If your son's in the basement playing video games and vaping, you don't give a flank. Fuck about territorial sovereignty and Ukraine or transgender rights. And at some point, when there are homeless people everywhere, despite reports it's costing taxpayers $70,000 per homeless person, you don't care about how thoughtful you don't want someone cosplaying Obama. You want someone who says, I'm going to come in and I'm going to be a lifestyle mayor and focus on competence and getting shit done. And by the way, anyone who does an ounce of due diligence around what I've done, I've just started doing around what it means to govern an L.A., all of the shit posting and criticism, a lot of it fair, the mayor baskets, a lot of it is unfair because some of it is about bureaucracy at the FEMA level. And whoever wins the mayor of L.A., a lot of the, it's actually the president of the L.A. County and the board of supervisors that have all the power, L.A. similar to, you could argue about California has become ungovernable, but until Democrats at an executive level start showing they can improve the quality of people's life and offer them good value for the money. Every state is a product. You pay for it in taxes, you expect a product. And right now there's just no getting around it. Only run products aren't gaining share, they're losing share. To be fair, homelessness is an intractable problem. It's one of these most difficult problems in California gets because of the weather and because people want to go there, you know, Los Angeles particularly, it's a great place to be homeless compared to like, I don't know, Montana or somewhere else. It is really bad. It is really bad. It is. But there's all these problems like where do you begin because it's such, and it's also an interrelated problem, so they have the worst problem of the worst of a terrible problem that's already hard to fix in an easy, even if you had minor homelessness. But it's again, it's a complicated, multifaceted issue that you have to do piece by piece. And I don't think any, I mean, I don't think if Spencer Pratt is just going to arrest them. That's not going to work. That's not going to, that's going to fix anything. It's not going to, you're right. It's not going to work. And, and by the way, your house burning down isn't a qualification to be met. No, not at all. Not at all. Money, she's right. He's good. He's good at the start. Oh, he's, by the way, he's run an outstanding campaign, outstanding, the, we'll see where it goes. The, the silver lining here is besera, and that is, he might be exactly what Democrats need. He isn't exciting. And quite frankly, that's probably way one. If you were to summarize, you know, Democrats have spent a decade searching for charisma. Right now, it appears voters are searching for competence. Daniela Luria is that, he does videos every single day from a different restaurant in San Francisco. He goes somewhere, he makes some mistakes. Not talking about Israel. He's not talking about transgender rights. He's not talking about bodily autonomy. He's not talking about Trump. He's just like, how do I get munique to get people to work? Right. But then he's also doing happy ones, too. Like, I just went to this great Korean restaurant, okay? He's very good. He's, I would, I would go, I'd follow Daniela Luria's lead in a lot of these things. You don't have to be a douche nozzle, like Spencer Pratt. He's basically a douche nozzle. Daniel's getting stuff done. And using social media, and it really says, I'd pay attention to what he's doing, because he's not a compelling, like, wow, personality, I mean, and he is. He's lovely, by the way, but he's, he's not like, like show, you know, hand, you know, hand waving at all. But I think he does use social media. He feels like upper middle management. Yeah. And he's also very confident. He seems confident. He gets things done. He's always on social media. I look at him. Anyway. Maybe he'll be governor of California. But just to come back to California, the race became a choice between celebrity. Healthen, money, stire, and experience, Basera, and experience appears to be winning. And the national lesson that Democrats need to draw from this is the democratic party keeps assuming every election is a referendum on Trump. Increasingly, voters are treating elections as a referendum on whether they can afford groceries, insurance, electricity, and a mortgage. And what your governor can do about that. Not governors can't, or mayor can do about it. Anyway, last story here. Apple smart glasses are now expected to launch in late 2027 after the company hits some delays. More glasses from Apple's Scott. Apple is reportedly following the playbook similar to Apple Watch, focusing on driving mainstream adoption of both glasses and sunglasses. These are things that look like glasses. First generation glasses are respected to emphasize features like cameras, but Apple bullies glasses could eventually evolve into a health device and incorporate augmented reality. Now, I know you've been critical of the Oculus and Apple Vision Pro. These are big, heavy units. These would be more like what Meta has with their Ray Bans or there are other different things. So I have a feeling Apple is going to come right up the back, up the metal, and take it all. They're just like with the watch. I think they'll design the best glasses. They'll work the best. And this is a way it goes mainstream. If this thing is to go mainstream. You're exactly right. They weren't the first in the iPod. There's my colleague at NYU Stern is now at the Tux school, Peter Golder. He taught me something that stuck with me that I thought was just a brilliant observation and it's the focus of his research. And that is the innovator doesn't win from a shareholder perspective. The innovator gets mud on their face and arrows in their back. It's the second mouse. It's the person that learns from the innovator who wastes a lot of capital and energy and comes in and it's the second mouse that gets the cheese. Apple has essentially built the most valuable company in the world, and now number two, on a second mouse strategy. And that is essentially met a built this market, but Apple's going to collect the rent. And this is not a mixed reality headset. That shit was like a prophylactic, right? That was just stupid, just stupid. Meta has done the hard work. Ray Bande reportedly sold about seven million units in 2025 and owns 85% of the category. And Apple is now entering after consumer behavior has already been validated. True, right. Yeah. Apple is the most aspirational brand globally. It says I'm one of the one billion people who are the most creative and wealthy people on the planet. And it is the ultimate luxury item is an iPhone in terms of ubiquity globally. It means you can afford a $12 or $1,400 piece of equipment that does the exact same thing at $300 a free phone does because you consider yourself part of the creative class and you have some, you know, risk if you will economically. So Palm built the smartphone market, Blackberry validated it, Apple captured it, fossil and swatch bill watches, Apple captured it. Remember on cue the first wireless earbuds? No, you don't. I don't. Yeah, they were, I had them. They were a whole bunch of early wireless earbuds and then Apple came in and stole it, but it was called on cue. I had them. They were a bunch before the AirPods that we showed a bunch of them at the, the, the conference. This is, this is what I think is going to happen. Meta spent tens of billions proving people were computers on their face. Apple will show up late, charge 40% more and take 80% of the profits here. And people, the mistake people make is that people think the valley's greatest business model is invention. It's not. It's letting someone else prove to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same thing with the AirPods. They did. They weren't the first to those, those music devices. They just were the best. They'll come in with beautiful glasses. They're not going to need Ray Ban. They'll design something gorgeous and you'll want to wear them. They'll look beautiful and, and if it's distinctly Apple, you'll wear them. I'll wear them. I'll buy them. And they'll, you will totally have like 90 sets of them in your house because you'll lose them. Well, look what I have here. Yeah. One of my eight sets of AirPods that I consistently lose. Yeah. And I remember when AirPods were thought as ugly when they were, anyway, this, they're going to, they're going to take this area. I think, and if they're, and if they, it has to be more than cameras, it's got to give you information and talk to you and record things and everything else. It's got to have more. I, I have a pair of the Ray Bands. I don't find them useful at all. I don't, I don't, I just don't, it doesn't do much. People like them. My kid, my kids. I do, but it doesn't work that well with my other, with my apps. I will say it's like another one of the wearables that ends up in a drawer. Yes. That's where it is. People could, if they could give me enough stuff to do with it, I'd rather, like, because I use my AirPods now for everything. Like, I don't ever look at my phone, you know, anyway, all right, let's go on a quick break. We come back. We'll talk about Trump quietly signing his AI executive order. Scott were back. President Trump has finally signed his AI executive order, and it's a paler shade of white, after scrapping a previous version at last minute a few weeks ago. The new order is scaled back version of the original. It asks AI companies to voluntarily submit their most powerful models to the government for review 30 days, rather than I think it's 90-day review window. It was in an earlier version, but Trump rejected that saying it would get in the way of competition with China. The revised order comes after a White House meeting on Monday with Trump. Scott Besson, Pete Heggseth, and former AI's are David Sachs, who gave his blessing to the new timeline. David Sachs had gotten in the way of the previous one. I'll note, Sam Altman is in DC this week making it around. It's just dumb. It's just, it does nothing. And that's, that's my thoughts on it, your thoughts? Well, the elites and the Trump administration think the regulation is controversial, but you know who's ahead of them is the American public voters don't think it's controversial. This is, this is one of the few issues where Republicans, Democrats, parents, unions, you know, churchgoers all agree. I think this is the next great populist movement for better or for worse. It won't be any immigration or anti-globalization, it'll be anti-AI-CARA. And this is, this is an enormous opportunity for a Democrat or a Republican that figures out that the first, the first person that really goes into a populist movement around regulating AI is key. It's going to have the political equivalent of beachfront property here. This is the next big populist movement. Yep. I agree with you. I think that's absolutely true. I think you're 100 percent true. Anyway, it's a really interesting, but this one did nothing. This one did nothing. It's a big whole lot of nothing, and David Sachs got his way. Congratulations, David. There were others much more concerned in that administration and as well they should be. All right, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. OK, Scott, let's hear a prediction. I shall go first. I just want to say Missouri is reducing state funding for Dolly Parton's Imagination Library and Early Child Reading Program that mails free books to children. My children get them. They're wonderful. And Dolly went on to complain about this online very in a very friendly way. But this is a great program, and so reducing funding for kids getting books is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen, and I predict Dolly Parton will prevail here, and the money will get to this group, your thoughts, Scott? Well, first just a comment on that. I was watching Bill Maher and they asked Neil deGrasse Tyson, who, if aliens landed, who would you want to speak to that person or who would be best selected to speak to aliens? And he said a great mathematician would make a lot of sense because any alien that gets to your earth would understand math, and that would be our common bridge in terms of vocabulary, which made a lot of sense to me. But I immediately thought, no joke. Dolly Parton. Send Dolly Parton. Send Dolly Parton. She's super likable on a lot of levels kind of represents represents that's pretty well. That's the first that went into my mind is that a valiant show up and we need a spokesperson's Send Dolly Parton. That's I agree. She can sing. She's likable. Smart. Smart. Charitable. Tells a good story. Boob. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I won't get other attributes that kind of represent America, but she talks about them. You can say boob with her. She talks. Anyways. But I thought, yeah, Dolly Parton. That's who should represent us? We'll give her her book money, you fuckers in Missouri. Anyway, go ahead. So my prediction is more boring. I think you're about to see the mother of all capital front running. What do I mean by that? As everyone obsesses over that valuation of open AI, SpaceX, and anthropic, you're about to see Alphabet's already announced it. The next will be Amazon, then it might be Nvidia, then it might be Apple. They're going to front run all these guys. They're going to cut the line and say you want to give cheap capital to companies in AI. Our company is lower risk, not as much upside, but much lower risk. Google. Alphabet is to announce that $80 billion offering, they're like, if there's a, if there's, if there's a quarter of a trillion dollars out there, a dumb money or cheap money looking to get into AI, they're cutting the line and they're going to suck the oxygen or some of the oxygen out of the room with the IPO market. Because you know it correctly, there's not enough money for all of these things. I saw that from Alphabet yesterday, I'm like, oh my God, that's such fucking genius. Explain what they're doing. They're raising money by, well, usually these companies will do a debt offering at this point because they typically access that cheap debt. But I think Alphabet said, my God, these guys, there's people out there willing to invest at 20, 30, 100 times revenues to buy, go buy Nvidia chips and build that AI infrastructure. They're like, I think we'll take that. And so Alphabet, who's CEO or CFO is incredibly smart, said, no, we'll, we'll go get 80 billion of that cheap capital. And it's so smart, it's so kind of, if you will, and quite frankly, if I'm, if I'm Apple, if I'm Alphabet, and I have Gemini, and I think you know, open AI and Anthropic are competitors, I'm just going to kick them in the nuts, and I'm going to step on their oxygen line before we've been hooked to that. By the way, they deserve it. They are as good, right? It's not like, why should they get the money? They're better. They're better. There's less downside. These companies have robust businesses. Of course, they get the money. And they have great management teams. Yeah. So they've basically, they're front running the IPO's here. I wish I had thought of this. I think it's such genius, but my prediction is Alphabet starting, I bet the CFOs of Apple, Microsoft, CoreWeave, Nvidia have all got their pencils out and have said, why don't we get some of that? Yeah. Why don't we, if there's, if there's a quarter of a trillion dollars on the sidelines waiting to invest in AI, hey, come over here. I got an idea for you. To my little store. And by the way, we have other businesses to support it if you. Yeah. And there's less downside here. If things don't work out in AI, we still got YouTube and iPhones and we still got PowerPoint. Yeah. Excellent. Okay. That's a great one. I love that. That's a great one. That's an excellent. That's an excellent prediction. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot. Just a minute question for the show. We'll call 85551Pivot. Okay. That's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Scott, congratulations on a tour with Ed Lson. Thank you, Cara. Thank you for supporting us. Of course. Great partner. I really, you totally made the tour. So thank you. Thank you. You deserve it. It was a great tour. And it was really nice to see all your fans. I love you. Anyway, we'll be back next week. Today's show is produced by Larry Neiman. So I'm Marcus Taylor Griffin and Todd Weisman. Brandon McFarlane engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Bros. Missiveira and Dan Shalant. And Shaq Kerwa. This box media is executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine in Box Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great weekend. [MUSIC PLAYING]