#6 Devir-Criança (com Tati Sant Anna)

Welcome to the Painless Project podcast, hosted by myself, Melissa Hadley Barrett, a nurse practitioner and a sexologist specialising in men's health. The Painless Project is dedicated to open, honest, educational conversations about all things pain our health, delivered with humour and in plain language, not medical jargon. Originally founded by myself and Joe Millios, a men's health physiotherapist, this podcast was created to break down the stigma surrounding men's health issues and provide real solutions. We dive into real stories, expert insights and the latest research on topics like erectile dysfunction, peronis disease, prostate health, prostate cancer, premature ejaculation and much more. Whether you're facing challenges looking for advice or just curious, this podcast is here to break the stigma, provide solutions and empower you with knowledge. If you find this podcast helpful, please follow or subscribe. It helps get this important information in front of more men and their partners. So together, we can improve lives and open up the conversation around pain our health. Let's talk about what no one else will because pain our health matters. Someone I've had the privilege with walking alongside for the past year or more. Mark is 56, he's a rural far fighter from the South West and in early 2025 he was diagnosed with a gleece and eight prostate cancer. That's an aggressive high-grade cancer after his PSA came back significantly elevated. His story has a bit of everything, family history of prostate cancer, he had surgery first, a radical prostatectomy and a rising PSA meant to go back and have radiation as well. All the while, he did this around fire season and helping other people because when your emergency personnel cancer doesn't get to pick the calendar. But what I really want to dig in today is part of the journey men don't often talk about. The recovery of sexual function afterwards, Mark has done the work, the daily tablets, the vacuum pump. He learned to do pain our injections with some memorable emergency department visit along the way and he's still going. He's honest, practical and he's here because he wants other blocs facing this diagnosis to know what's actually involved and there's help and hope at every step. So, Mark, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today, thank you for joining. Thanks, Melissa. Great introduction, mate. That's good. I know there's been a few talks where we've got to be catching up and it's like, nope, I can't get you on the phone because you're in the middle of a fire somewhere. Yeah, it's part of the gig in a long time. Yeah, it is. So, tell me back to the start, I mean, you're 56 now and you were only diagnosed like at 55. So, how did you find your prostate cancer and like, did you get it picked up on a blood test? What made you go on? Have the test? Have you been having regular tests? How did it all come about? Yeah, so it all started, I was actually up north, so when I'm not doing the fire season, I go up north and do the fires up there, up in the two wee islands. So I was up there and I've had a mate who had prostate cancer and he kept annoying me and being a bloke, I left it and left it and then one day I had a work medical and just while I was there, he's always propped into my head and I thought, I said to the doctor, I said, I want to get me PSA done and he said, why? I said, well, I said, the old man's had a bit of it, which we didn't really know a lot about and I said, yeah, mate's been harassing me for the last year, so I've done it. And yeah, bugging me dead, when I got the results back and then we fell off the chair. So yeah, so. Oh, was you PSA, do you remember? Yeah, it was 38. Oh yeah, I'd fall off the chair too. And it's surprising that the GP pushed back though about it because you were over 50, but he still pushed back and was like. Yeah, I think, oh, yeah, push back, but you sort of asked, oh, why, and all the rest of it, and as far as I'm concerned, if a guy asked for a PSA test, it's no skin off there, no, it should be just bloody damp, especially being like 56, so I think that's, you know, I think they should start even earlier. Yeah, and also definitely having the family history. Yeah. What happened then? So then you went off and had a biopsy, so that you were then referred to the surgeon. Is that correct? Yeah, so yeah, so we went to, yeah, we went to Bumbry, and he was a really good guy. He was that straight shooting that wasn't funny, and that's the sort of thing I like. No, not around, he tells you what it was. So from there, talked to him and then, yeah, he got sent up to the surgeon and away we went. So the guy in Bumbry, did he do, he did the biopsy down there? Yeah, yeah, that was done in Bumbry, so he did the biopsy there, and that let us know what was going on for sure, and he pretty much knew that there was, and he said to me before he went in, he said, I'm probably 100% sure that you've actually got it, which we both knew anyway, so yeah. And just for the people listening who are fortunate enough to live in metropolitan areas, just explain to us, I don't think people, especially in other countries, understand how big the distances are in Australia and in Western Australia. And I know like this whole journey for everybody is a lot of appointments and a lot of fast, but for you, how many hours did you have to drive to get to Bumbry for your biopsy? Oh, so every time you, from down here, it's all two hours, but when you're in the bush two hours, it's not a long way, but it is a pain in your ass. Yep, so from you to Bumbry's two hours, is that right? Yep, yep, yep, in Perth's, you're four hours, yeah, so like when I actually first got diagnosed or started to do it, was in November 24, that's like the end of 2024, and by the time we, the appointment was like two weeks, two, three weeks, so you go see a doctor, and by time you got in, there was another two or three weeks, and so by time I had the surgery, it was March 2025, so I don't know how quick it works in the city, but it's really hard, and I think people living in metropolitan areas don't understand that they really is a tyranny of distance in Australia, we've got such big distances and it's a lot harder, you know, like if you live in a metropolitan area, you can potentially go to work, and then leave in the afternoon and go to your appointment, but when you live two hours away, that's a whole day exercise, like you're losing work, and there's a lot involved, isn't there? Yeah, well it's a bit low when I did the radiation therapy, being with me job with the Parks of Olsloff, I could, they actually found me a job in Bumbry, a week so I was up there, so I could actually stay in Bumbry so I was quite lucky that way, but I do know a lot of guys were driving up, they'd get the treatment at Bumbry and turn around and come home, so they were doing, you know, they were doing the four hours every day, because radiotherapy it actually doesn't take that long, it's good. Now I used to live in Geraldton, and I had patients that would drive like five hours per treatment, and then back again at the end of the day, so we'll get more into the radiation after, but let's go next to where you went to, so then you were told that really, with a glisteningate and being so young, you had no choice really other than surgery, so you got referred to the surgeon in Perth, and you had a lovely surgeon, so that was good, he was really good, and then you had this prox, so how were you and your wife feeling about this at the time, were you nervous or were you feeling confident, how were you feeling? Oh jeez, well you go through a lot of bloody emotions I suppose, one minute, you think you're dead, and then, I don't know, I think what it is, as you're going through that journey, everything's brand new, so you really don't know what to expect, that's the big one. Like I said, I had a mate who had his prostate out, and then you were talking a fair bit, and at least he sort of gave you their heads up a little bit, that was pretty good, having someone to chat that's been through it, and at least you got some idea of what's going to happen to you, and what's when you're finished surgery, what you're going to have hanging off you and stuff like that, because I think some. Was he honest with you, like did he tell you about the catheter and the leaking, and the pain is not working, or did you feel like it was a bit sort of sketched around? No, no, he might grant, he gives you warts and all, definitely that. That's what you need, that's good mate. Yeah, no, definitely that, he didn't tell me about the leakage in the catheter, I wish someone had told me that, because when that happened, that scared the shit out of me. So tell us about that, so you had your prostatectomy in March, and then what happened, tell us that you woke up, you got this tube coming out of your penis, and did you hang around in Perth for that next two weeks, or did you go home? Yeah, no, no, we stayed in Perth, because the surgeon said he said, "I want you to stay up here," because well, number one had the catheter, and he said, "If anything goes wrong, we're too far away to get any help," so we've got hospitals here, but. You know, not not for this sort of thing, you know, so we were lucky there as well. We had a friend that had a unit and they give that to us for as long as we needed. Honest, we're some people don't have that. Oh no, that's the thing, it's like being a person who lives rule or remotely. It's so much, this is such a harder journey because you've got time away from where the cost of finding somewhere to stay. It's a massive, it really is a big, any kind of medical treatment like this is so much difficult for people living in these areas. Yeah, it is, but I also like getting, if you're from the bush, you'd work it out. I know, but I do think it's nice for people to acknowledge that as well, that it is a bit of a harder journey because of that distance problem. Yeah, well, even in the hospital's like, and the nurses are great and they're slate out. But like when we were, you wanted to get checked out or something like that, they'd disappear for a bit. You don't want to be a pain the bum to ring the bell. You end up doing it and then they say, "Yeah, yep, now we're always, we'll get the paperwork, we'll check you out." So, yeah, that'd be good because we've still got four hours to get on yet. Yeah. Oh. Oh. Well, you know, we don't all live in the city. No, people don't get it today. So tell us about this catheter thing. What happened with your catheter? Because it's unusual what happened to you with this catheter. Yeah. Well, when we were in, we stayed imperfectly, mates, you know, just going to the toilet. And then next minute, like the year I come out the side of this bloody catheter, and I thought, "Oh, shit, now it's all gone bloody pear shape." So. Got a leaking valve. Yeah, had a leaking valve and it didn't feel right. So, you have a bit of a bloody panic attack about that. So, but the girls that were going through the surge and that look after you, that we had a number, and they were great, and she said, "Look, just don't panic just yet." She said, "That does happen." So, yeah. So, here we just kept going with that, and that was, you know, we got through. Nothing. Oh. No, you live on the toilet, it's a pony ass. So, that would have been because there's a balloon that holds the catheter in your catheter and the balloon is filled up with water, and it sounds like, for some reason, it leaked a bit of the balloon water out, so the seal wasn't good, so you literally dusted a seal. Yeah. Well, what only happened just, I think what it was, yeah, maybe I was going to the toilet too quick or too fast, you just got to sit in and just relax a bit and take your time for all these things, I suppose, but yeah, it didn't happen all the time, just to happen a couple of times, but yeah, no, it got through it. It was, as long as you got someone that you can call and say, "It's normal," and then you go from there, and being in person, they would have just said, "Come straight in," which is, you know, when you're down home, where you just can't do that. No, that's right. So then you went off, and how did you feel in that recovery period after the surgery, that from my memory, I didn't make you until a few months after, but I think you told me that it went healed really well and it felt pretty good. Yeah, no, no, so everything went really well. So you come home, you got your pads and all that sort of stuff, and say, you don't let it piss yourself and all the rest of it, everything was going fine. How long did you need the pads for? No, I reckon probably, ooh, top of my head, two or three weeks, I reckon, so you start with the ones, and then you slowly back it off, and then you get down to the very thin one. And then, yeah, I thought, "Oh, I think I'll be right now," and then went with nothing at all. So you had done all your pelvic floor exercises, hadn't you, and I mean, you were pretty fit because of the nature of your job, so you needed really well to capture that quickly. You also had a very good surgeon who has great contouring, right? Yeah, and not only that too, but you make grand, he said, "Start doing these pelvic exercises straight up." Yeah. So I was doing that flat out, even before surgery. Great. And I think a lot of guys need to know that because, yeah, that they help, yeah, they're really good at helping. So you get your mate grant on the podcast, he sounds like he's a full-body model of it. Oh, it'll help you if you get him on the airship. So that's it, I definitely want to get him on the air, so that's very entertaining. So the surgeon told you that you had partial nerve sparing, and like, did he talk to you before the surgery about your sexual function and how that was going to go? And did you have some expectation, or were you one of these guys, because I didn't see him to after, who just thought, "Oh, I worry about that later." Yeah, I probably wasn't a bit worried about that later. I was more about keeping breathing at that point, you know, I thought, "I can't mess around with any of this, so mate, just get it out and do your best job." And to be perfectly honest, I sort of like the sexual side of it, that was sort of like on right on the back burner because I thought, "We can't piss far around with this, we've got to get it out, I've got to keep breathing, you know, if I can keep it, be happy." And not with a glistening, as well, and were you aware that having a glistening meant that you had a high, much higher chance that you would have a bio-medical current, and that you'd probably be likely to have to have some radiation after, or did that come as a surprise? Oh, you know, as you do, it'd be in a blight, your gurgle bits and pieces, and you find bits and pieces on, you know, through your phone, on your old, good spot, I definitely knew that. And then you read it and it says, "Oh, you've got a chance of so many percent to live for four or five years and all this sort of thing." I think you just got to not look at that sort of stuff, I think it scares a shit out of your half the time, but yeah, you did tell me about it. Yeah, but it's hard to take it all in, I think. And also, I think it's really important for people to know that, you know, the stats that you read online, research, you know, you get it accepted for, you do the research, and it takes you a good year or two to write it up, and then you get it accepted. So by the time it's published, often there's the stats are quite different to what you're reading. So you're often reading things that are a bit more doom and gloom than they need to be, but it's hard to remember that, I think, when you're in the moment. And also, if you're not into research, self-hate is supposed to know that, it's taken all of the costs. Yeah. And when you're sitting talking to a doctor, you're only in there for the 15 minutes and you're a bit information. And if you don't know anything about it, you don't know what questions to ask. And so he sort of gives you the basic floor plan of what's going on, and you don't really get time to get into the needy gritty, so the end of that's where it's handed to people that have been through it, and then your arm with a bit more information and you can write stuff down. Exactly. I agree. I think talking to other people who have been through it, which is why I think it's so great that men like you are sharing your stories, because it means if you don't have a mate that's gone through it, someone can listen to this and go, "Oh, that's a good point. I need to write that question down and ask it." Yeah, if you've got no one to talk to, and all these things blind, yeah, I wouldn't be very fun experiences for sure. Any time did you speak to a prostate cancer nurse? Because the prostate cancer nurse is in Australia and England have them as well, and pretty sure America do. They're like an amazing fountain of information than people to talk to. Did you ever get an opportunity to do that, maybe not in the country? Not really no, no, the only nurses we talk to were the ones that the surgeon givers, and look, they were great, they were fine. That I was lucky when I came home, I didn't really have any need to ring anyone else. I don't think I had any trouble. So yeah, no. I met you then between the surgery and the radiation. So you finally came along. Now, did you might tell you to come and say me or did you surgeon tell you to come and say me? No, the surgeon gave me your name. So yeah, pretty much whatever name he gave me, I'll run with that. So you came along in sorbet, and I'll remember very clearly when you came, you and you all came in. I thought here's a good Aussie bike, and you were telling me, really, from what I got was it was sort of just, that was when you'd first started really thinking about erections and because you were kind of at the other side, and I know that your surgeon Richard gave you already started you on the five milligrams of Tadada Filaday, which was great because he's very proactive about that. So he'd started doing that, and then you came in, and I think you'd had the surgery in the march, and I saw you in the July. So you say you weren't really that worried about sex, but that's pretty quick considering. Yeah, well, I think what it was was just to start the ball rolling, just the same deal. You don't know what to expect. So they give you these names, and you think, oh, okay, so I'll go see this lady, and you know. Which is great, the earlier the better, you know, it's never too late, but the earlier the better. So you came in, and we had a chance. And what did you think after that appointment? Were you nervous coming in, or were you just like, "Oh, you're going to see this sheeler "and she'll tell me how to make my dick work?" - Yeah, well, sorry, it's, (laughs) you don't number one, you're a sheeler, then, too, he's talking about that sort of stuff. But, yeah, no, I think, and I do know some guys have had it, and they haven't gone down that road either. They actually haven't gone all the way through the sexual health sort of things, but, you know, actually, we're 56, and, you know, I thought, well, you just gotta go over the talk, you gotta find out what's going on, and go from there. - Yeah, it's a bit sad, I think, to just let it go, because even if you're not in a relationship, or you're in a non-sexual relationship at the time, no one knows what's gonna happen in the future. And, you know, you've always put yourself as well to look after. - Yeah, and not only that, too, it's just a general health. - Yeah, exactly, especially when you're a firefighter. You can't have a tripled-up penis and try and get it out behind a tree when you're in the middle of a fire, can you? - Don't let it have it. - Yep, I've gotten really good at doing that stuff in the bush now. - And I suppose as well, you know, this has been me being silly, but, you know, there's a lot of comparison to massive hoses if you're a firefighter. So, you really don't want yours tripling up to you. (laughing) I'm just having the visual now of the massive firehose and trying to get your tripled-up penis out if you haven't looked after him to, yeah, be pretty awful. - Yeah, well, that, yeah, I know. And that's the thing. But see, now he tells you that after all the surgery and stuff like that either. So, you know, and that's the reason why I sort of went down that road of catching up with dudes, make sure everything at least stays half bloody normal across the night, you know? - So then you started using a pump after that. And we talked about whether or not you'd be interested in using injections, 'cause you didn't have anything happening, which has totally, as you'd expect at that stage. And we decided that you had a long road trip after, so we would wait until the next time. - Yes. - And then we waited till the next time. And we had an interesting episode, didn't we? So tell us how we went with that first time. - Oh, mate, that'll never forget that, if it. - I'd love to hear you tell this to your mates at the pub after a few years. - This is definitely just my secret, this one or mine or what? - Up for long. - And then I had an army mate stay in here, and so he knows about it, and he makes the piss out of me to no ends. (laughs) - No, once this goes live, everyone's gonna know about it, do you know? - Hi. (laughs) - Hey, tell us. - Coming and seeing you, we made that second appointment for the injection. - Mm-hmm. - Went in, yeah, and then all of a sudden, I had to drop me back and you grabbed my old fella and put the injection in, and the injection, I get it some guys don't wanna go down that road, but yeah, really, they're fine, there's no pain, like you said, you're still that sad, and all the way you go. So you injected me with that stuff, whatever it was, first time. - Yep, and I was thinking, oh, you know, he's really close to his surgery, he's only had partial nerves, bearing had to close to eight. These nerves are gonna be stuffed, they're gonna need a bit of an extra boost, but I overcooked it, didn't I? - Yeah, so while things started working, really, really good, and I'm thinking, gee, this is great, you know? - Yeah, and I'm thinking, oh my God, he's in way better shape than I thought. This is up to him too much. - Yeah. - Yeah, so from there, it was probably another hour and a half, two hours, even from there I suppose. So we come up in two separate cars, 'cause the boss had to do what she had to do, and yeah, head off home, thinking this is all right, and the hours picked on and stayed there, and it stayed there, and then by the time we got home, blogger said, couldn't do anything with it, and then I'll try to get old to you, and things were happening, and then, yeah, then I had to do a trip to Bumbry to get a better-- - Yeah, so you remember, you took the suit of head, did all that, and then it still wasn't going, and I said, I'm so sorry, you're going to have to come back. And yeah, to go to Bumbry, and yeah, so then you went in, and they had to drain it, I know, and that is not a pleasant experience, but tell me, did everyone in that hospital want to come and look at you, 'cause you had a erection that wouldn't go down? - Oh, that was, yeah, and so you must have run them up before we got-- - I did, I rang them and then you're on your way, 'cause normally I'd get you to come to the clinic, but I've gone away, so I'd left somewhere that day too, so yeah, I'd think I'd driven back to Perth, so I rang them and said, my patients are coming in, and 'cause often the ED department don't always know what to do, so I taught them through, 'cause it's pretty easy, but I needed to sort them through it. Yeah, so you got there? - Yeah, so we got there at the emergency there. The lady said, oh, yep, we know you're coming in. She took us to another room just by herself, 'cause it was a bit hard, you got this bloody ragion horn sitting in your pants, and then went into the, what do you call it, the idea, whatever, and yeah, and then, so this guy, he started, and then he said, oh, do you mind if the colleague of mine comes in as a look, and I said, oh, yeah, mate, no worry, so one walks in, and then a couple of nurses come in, and then another couple of doctors come in, there's a room with about, bloody six or seven people looking at me, all feller and off, (laughs) you should have asked them if you could sign autographs. - Oh, mate, it was, oh, yeah. You don't like it, right, aren't you? So, yeah, you had a bit of a giggle about that, but, um. - I'll never forget the first time I saw a priceless working at the Geraldton Regional Hospital when I was 22, and a man came in with one in the emergency department, and in those days, we didn't have doctors working in the emergency, and there was me as a very junior nurse and a more experienced nurse, and I got the guy with my patient and I had a look, and I was just like, had no idea what on earth was going on, I was pretty inexperienced, and I went and said to this old bird, what happens here? Like, he reckons he's had it up for hours, and she goes, oh, I've never seen that before, and I said to her, actually, I know what it is, it's a pry prism, because it's the only word I remember out of any of my uni lectures, 'cause I remember giggling my head off when they told us about it, but I have not yet what to do about it, and so we rang the doctor who came in and went through the whole procedure, but I guarantee there was not, there would have been 20 people in that hospital of the main and excuse to come to our emergency department to go in and have a look at this, because, and so I always feel so bad for men if they ever have to go, I try to avoid this like the plague, so they don't know what that's happened to them. - Well, the thing is, you get to that point, you just don't bloody care, you think for Christ's sake, you get this thing down, because after a while, it's not much fun, but yeah, and there's quite embarrassing there, the ladies, she said to me, she's the nurse, as I don't really know you, so I'm not too sure how much for it to keep going down, and me wife, she's gonna pound a bit more, (laughing) and then, she has a little, now not a bit more. Don't think so. (laughing) - Hey, you're going, hey, it's not that small, don't keep taking this stuff. Like, let's do what you've got to do and get me out of here. - Ah, that's very funny. - We're gonna take a quick break, but before we get back to the episode, are you enjoying what you're hearing and wondering if we can help you? At restorative health clinic, our expert team offers discrete online conversations for men worldwide. Whether it's a reptile dysfunction, peronious disease, prostate health, or general sexual wellness, we're here to help. Don't wait, take control of your health today. Book an appointment now at rshealth.com.au or matehardeasy.com.au. Now, back to the show. - And then, so you went home after that, we had a chat a few days later, and then we jinked the dose, so we got it right after that. So, basically, your surgeon had done a way better job than I actually thought possible with a fleece in nine, so hats off to him. You sorted that out, and how did you go then moving forward? I mean, I know that you were nervous, not glad to do them again, but we got the dose right. We didn't have that problem, and I gave you the emergency injection drug after that too, just in case, which interestingly enough, I'm glad to know that from now on after you and that experience, 'cause it shocked me, every person who I see from the country, I give them the emergency injection, in case Certifet doesn't work, so they don't have to go through that, that's a change in our policy now, 'cause I think that's awful, but you had to charge all that distance, yeah. - That's probably another one, either, and as long as I said, I'm bloody computer-electric, they ship me to his computers, and they never work, but give them a written hand out what to do if it starts going pear-shaped. - Yep, and that is exactly the same thing I've done. We've done that after that, yeah, you changed some of our processes, 'cause I was really surprised that you got that lasting so long. So then after that, we got on top of that, and you used injections, and how did you go moving forward with that? - Yep, so we went through those other couple, and remember we were going half-dose, like that, and yeah, some worked, but like you said, we had the other stuff, so, but now we're onto that one now, I can't tell you what the bloody name is, that last one that we did, and we switched. - And is that working well for you? Yep, that seems to be OK. OK, because I remember you're saying this one does ache a bit, but nothing you can't live with. Yeah, it is a tiny bit of an ache, but it has a really short, not for everybody, only for one in 20 men, but it has a really short time frame, so you get a good erection with it without too much time, and you're just one of these people who are really sensitive to the time. He might be a bit reluctant to get up in the first place, but he doesn't want to let down when he does, does he? Yeah, so even with that stuff, so you go for half an hour with the sex sort of things, and if people go any longer than that, you're always good luck on, but yeah, it's good hour and a half, two hours before it starts going down, but then I've got to go for either a jog or jump on the bike, but now, because my wife used all my suit of head for a hayfree. Right. Now, so now, as soon as we finish, I'll wait for a bit, I'll take two suit of head, jump on the bike, like if you get the heart rate up, and yeah, it's all good bananas after that. Yeah, you're really unusual, like, you're the only man I've seen that last too long on that mix, so you just have have a very excitable penis, so go away when he's up. So I mean, you told me I had a super, super dick, sir. Yeah, I met another super dick this week, actually, in the last 70s, who just had one that went up and didn't go away without a lot of prodding, and what's quite surprised with him as well, actually, same surgeon. I think I need to start giving that surgeon's patients a very tiny dose every time I see them. Yeah, and if you do live a way, camp the night there, so you're close. Yeah, good boy, so this in this journey now, so how many months post-op were you when your PSA started to rise again, and then it was like crap, I'm going to need an treatment. Yeah, I actually got that written down, so had the surgery in March? Yeah, I thought it was about August last year. Not here October, so the PSA going up. October, okay, yeah. So yeah, yeah, so who'd give me that phone call? That would have been your surgeon, would have run you and told you your PSA was up because he'd tested it. Yeah, so Richard ran me up, and it started to creep back up again. So the move from there was go back up to Bumbry and start looking at the radiation sort of things. Yeah, so that was when you met Craig Wilson, wasn't it? Well, he's in Perth, he was travelling down. He was the name that Richard gave me, so I stuck with him as well. So yeah, we went in, and it was pretty quick, and we had a talk, there was a couple of options I could do, I could wait, because we did the, what's the scan you do? We had the PET scan, the, yeah. And they couldn't find any of their cans, nothing would show up. And I thought, well, is that a good thing? He said, well, one hand, it's a good thing. The other hand is we don't know exactly where it is. So the option was, I could wait, do therapy until it come to the new exactly where it was. Or the other option was, we get stuck into it now and we hit the whole general area. And yeah, I wasn't waiting around, I said, mate, book is in, we'll hit the whole lot. So that's the road we travelled down. And then I know, because you and I had this conversation, and you definitely had it with him as well. I mean, I totally understand why he wanted to jump in with the radiation, and you're young, you know, you had to glistenate, like a great, a good decision in my opinion, it probably made the same myself. But he recommended, he offered having testosterone-lowering therapy as an option. And I know you made the decision not to, which is a brave decision. And I completely understand why. But tell us about how you came to that conclusion, like what made you decide to give it a go of just radiation first, because you could have always, you could always have Helmon therapy later if you need to. Yeah. How about your thought process then? Well, me being a bloke, I just wanted to hit it straight, and the other one too was my sort of me work commitments, which shouldn't really come into it, but it did have a bit of a playing factor. We still have to feed your family and pay bills, so I think that's a factor. Yeah. We did it straight away right there and then, we were doing it, well, it was a five-season, but I could start, start it really quick, so I think it was six weeks, six or seven weeks. Yeah, and you got the office job, but he recommended, in my notes it says, he recommended for you to have testosterone-lowering therapy, and you chose not to. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was just like a timing factor, and I just said, no, let's get into it. Let's knock it on the head. No, sorry, but I thought he wanted to give you the hormone therapy and the radiation, and you just chose radiation only. No, I think, well, from memory, is the hormone therapy, and then for three months and then the radiation. Or they can have it at the same time, because I've written here in my notes that you declined the hormone therapy because of the potential side effects of not having enough energy and feeling a bit lackluster, and that would have been difficult with work for you, and the craig agreed that you could just do radiation first and see. Yeah, I think, you know, he sort of gave me the - anyway, and I just said, no, let's just get into it, mate. I said, I'm not pissing around, so yeah, we did it, and yeah. And how's your PSA now? What's it look like? Yeah, it's going down, it's purged for honest, I couldn't tell you exactly what the number is. But it crags, obviously, happy with it. Yeah, so I've got another one, I've had two PSAs, both come down dramatically at the moment, or being another PSA in September, so hopefully it keeps going down. Yeah, and how are you feeling about, like, when you had the radiation, did you have side effects, you know, like, did you have fatigue, or did you have any bowel or bladder problems, or anything like that? Yeah, as far as fatigue, I didn't notice a whole lot. I worked through the whole lot of that. The biggest, probably, biggest factor would probably be your bowel movements and stuff like that. I was quite lucky, I was working in a shed, the toilet was there, it was actually worked out perfect, it really did because I was working in a shed when I wanted to go to the toilet, walked in and do what you had to do and come back out again and go back to work, so. So was it just frequency, or was it loose and did it hurt, or? Yeah, just the looseness of your bowel movements, and I've even got that even now. So that's never completely gone away? Well, not at the moment, and some days better than others, and when you do need to go to the toilet, you sort of do need to rock and roll a bit, and don't muck around, otherwise you would be in a world of hurt, but I think as we go along, that will just get a little bit better and better as we go, hopefully. Yeah, there is some treatment I can, when we finish recording the podcast, I'll chat to you, and I can tell you some options for that too, because you can deal with that. Don't just have to put up with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially because I'm just thinking, you know, when the fire season comes around again, you don't want to get caught short when you're in that big fire season. Well, what it does is like I drive the doses and stuff like that, that everybody at work knows I've had prostate cancer, I've, you know, that's the bit I've been, they don't know all the needy gritty bit, unless someone wants to know about it, but now I just tell the truck to piss off back a bit, and I'll jump in the bush and do what I got to do, then get back in the dozer and carry on. Yeah, cool, okay. And so how long work before you were back finding fires again? Oh, well, yes, that was what funny, so I went back to work after the radio therapy. Probably that, oh, well, I was working during the radio therapy, or after the surgery was that what was going on? No, no, no, no, no, after the radio therapy, I know you're working in, in Gumbery, in the office, but how long before you were actually back doing your real job again? Oh, pretty much three days after I left Gumbery, so after the, after the, after the, the new King Session, I used to call it. The New King Session? Yeah, so I finished on the Friday, so I had the weekend, the Saturday, Sunday, back at work on Monday, and it's funny, just as I pulled up, the truck and the dozer was driving out the gate, and I said, "Where's my dozer going?" And I said, "The floor, huh?" and you were going with it, so my floor went. Wow, that's amazing. And then, so yeah, so I mean, you got back to life pretty normal, and now, how do you feel now? Like, do you feel like life is normal, and this is hanging over your head, or do you feel like you just can get on with it, have your PSA, and deal with it as it comes? - Yeah, well, this is the new normal. Look, it's never as gonna be as normal as what it used to be. Yeah, I don't let shit hang out in my head 'cause yeah, I just don't like doing it that way. You've just gotta fucking get going, you know? 'Cause what I'll turn it at the side of the sit there crying your milk or punch on. That's just how I work. It's just. - That expression for years, punch on. - Yeah. - Yeah, I like that. - Well, you can sit there and cry or just do it. - Yeah, and then with the radiation, did you notice any change in your rectile function after? - No, 'cause even with the radiation, nothing is really working without injections or stuff like that. - Yeah, and interestingly enough, I was expecting after the radiation that the nerves that are working 'cause some of them are working 'cause you're on such a small dose. I was expecting that we might have to increase that, but we didn't at all. So really, your nerve situation, your rectile function hasn't got any worse post radiation at all. - No, no, no. So once we started the injections, once we worked out the right, how many mills to put in. Yeah, we'll stick with that and bloke the end of bloke. Sometimes you put a little bit more in 'cause you think, "Oh, yeah, that's a better way to do it." But now you look back down again very quickly. - Yeah, you go, whoops, now I'll stick with the dose. And then just when you kind of got back to when you normal and things are going well, you got a bloody hernia didn't eat earlier this year. - Yeah, well, all those hernias, actually, I had all those at the start before all this actually happened. - Oh, but so you had those hernias even before you had prostate cancer? - Yeah, yeah, there's a lot. - And so did they just get worse? Or how come you had to have them worked on like fix this year? - Well, I was in the days of one day, and it felt just all of a sudden, it felt like I'd done 300 bloody sit-ups. - Yeah. - I don't know if that's what it was, but that's when I started, I thought, two weeks, you're getting a bit older, you better start cleaning yourself up a bit. So I thought I'd go get these hernias looked at 'cause I knew I had 'em. Thought, now get these done. And that was the same deal as Winter. I said, now get 'em fixed up. You know, thought I was being really, really good. So I had the hernias done, so got them fixed. And then I started doing the, you know, the bowel cancer, you know, the ones they send in the male. - Yeah, I do. I've got one sitting on my desk, I need to do. - Yeah, yeah, I've got the same one. Started doing that. So I'm thinking I'm doing a really bloody good job here. And that's what fits you off. Never been crooked in your life. And yeah, the whole lot comes bloody smashing the sword of the head, why you? - So did your bowel cancer test come back positive? - No, no, that one was good. That's what I thought. Clear mate, I'm doing a great job. - Yeah. - And then, yeah, then the PSA won't start it. And yeah, feel from there. - Yeah, it's a funny way. But I think there's one problem with getting older. The great part is, is it still alive. And the bad part is you've got to deal with your body being a bit like a broken car, a bit breaking and you have to fix them and then punch on and do the next bit, don't you? - Oh, and that's exactly right. But that's the thing is, you get older, you find out all these different sort of cancers and bits fall off that you never knew about. (laughs) - I was talking to a patient yesterday, actually, and his wife, and I was saying how, you know, I used to hate it when I'd hear my mother and more up, she'd tell me about every illness, everyone on the street, and everyone she knew had. And then you get to a certain age and you find yourself meeting up with your friends and discussing what bit of skin cancer you had burned off or what you later perhaps mere was like or your colonoscopy and you think, God, that's what happens. It just happens to us, doesn't it? - Yeah, and it does, and it happens really quick. Once you hit that 50 mark, yeah. (laughs) - Yeah, it's awful. - It'll happen. So this whole journey, how do you think it's affected your relationship with your wife, like? And I mean, I know she's been incredibly supportive and I think it makes the journey a lot easier when you have a supportive wife. But do you think it's affected your intimacy and your relationship together? - Oh, Jesus, a bit like when you go through these things, you know, you think, I think Russia's here because just being in the hospital by yourself and it's little things too, you know? Just someone to grab the bloody glass of water to move it closer because they come in, and they put it and they can't reach it. And Ben, the inner sea, you know? Well, we've always had a pretty good gig from the start to finish anyway. But, you know, we've had a laugh. And that's all you can do. (laughs) - Yeah. - And what about your kids? How old are your kids? - I'm on a pretty older now. They're all in their late 30s, late 20s. And the young bloke, he's 25, so yeah. - And how did they deal with this? Were they worried or did they sort of take it in their stride? - Or. - Yeah, I think, well, half the trick is, you know, you've got prostate cancer. But you've got to find the information before you can actually open your mouth. And that's like three or four months. That they know there's something going on. And we said, I said, I look, could be prostate cancer. They said, I, you know, how, what, when, and all the rest of it. And I said, at the moment, I really don't know myself. So when I do, I'll let you know. So then even when you get test, test, take, you know, a month to get back to you and all this sort of thing. So yeah, now that the, well, me young bloke, you know, he's as rough as gutsy, ride bulls and stuff like that. And he, he, not, he happened to him on the phone. He's quite happy and tells me to harden up and all the rest of it. I think the girls that affected them a little bit, not no one. But yeah, now we just kept them in here. Well, I, we knew we told them what was going on. I think that's pretty important. And like, you don't get them the full details, like, you know, you know, your man's old fellow doesn't work anymore. That stuff, you keep that to yourself a bit. Yeah, they don't care about that. They just care that he's still going to be breathing. Yeah, down the aisle, yeah. Yeah, and, yeah, so apart from that. Yeah, I think they went all right. And do you know, did you tell your sons and I that they need to start getting checked when they're 14 now? Because you've had it. Yeah, I've said to him, I said, you need to get this checked. And he tells me he's not that weak. That, he will remember all that happens. Because it's even when my man, he, well, we found out later. He had prostate cancer now. He told me that he had, how did he describe it? He had pulps and old age would kill him before this did. Yeah. Then, because, well, we were a bit estranged because of the farm and the way everything went downhill. So I didn't talk to anyone for a long time. But, yeah, then we found out, and this is me mate that I was talking to, he knew more than what I did, but he sort of didn't say too much. And then we found out that he had his prostate out. I'm thinking, well, the information would have been a bit handier later on. But, it is what it is. And we all sort of, we won't go fishing together, but we sort of talk. And I stayed with him while I was getting the treatment up in Bumbi anyway, so. And back in those days when he had it done, they, I don't think they would have known that it was something that was genetic. So, it would have, it was treated really as a, this is your thing. And also, you know, different generations, they certainly didn't talk about it like we do. No, no, they don't. No, they, you know, we got over that bloody hurdle, but yeah, if any fathers have got sons, and if they're talking to them or not, give them a bloody email and they care what it is. And just say, hey, I've got, and your brothers as well. And yeah, yeah, well, I haven't got any brothers, but, well, the young bloke definitely knows. And every bloke at work of, you know, they've had that many PSI tests in, in down home here, it's not funny. It's great. And then I also wanted to talk to you. A lot of men tie their sense of masculinity to their rectal function and their pain is being healthy and normal. Yep. Has this changed your experience about how you think about that? No, 'cause I never thought of that, of it that way anyway. It's, yeah. Yeah, some guys, they fall on a big hole apparently. All fellows not work and that's it. Your mouth will bloody shoot me, which is a people way to think as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, like, it's a party, a body, across. Yeah, but I think also, you know, I learned once and I've probably said this a million times on this podcast, but there was this wonderful prostate cancer nurse I met in New Zealand. And we were talking about men and masculinity and how they feel about, a lot of men feel about themselves when things, when something happens to their, this part of their body. And she said, she always asks couples when they come in the first time, she asks the partner, whether it's a same sex or a female partner. What is it about John that makes him a man to you or makes him masculine to you? And she said, once in any time she's asked that in years, has the partner said that he can give an erection? And she said, it's always that he's supportive, he's brave, he's there when I need him, you know. He can screw the pictures on the wall. whatever it is you know like it's never about pain as function and she asks that question because a lot of men and obviously not you but a lot of men do really perceive their masculinity about their sexual virility and their ability to function and I think finding out that actually that's not it's important but it's not what other people see you as a man for I think is a really big thing. Yeah no that's exactly right too and yeah I think I don't worry when you go through this you do start to think a little bit more about stuff and definitely I'm definitely not a thinker I am geez if I start thinking I just get in but yeah I think some guys when this sort of thing happens yeah you reassess some stuff and I look sometimes things all this happening you come out probably the better for it believe it or not sometimes. Yeah I think you're right and I think you know it can bring couples closer together because it's an opportunity to really talk and think about how you're feeling and I mean I think about a man I've met who have been overweight drinking smoking get diagnosed as a prostate cancer and then gone I'm going to change all of those things and so it's not just that they've got rid of the prostate cancer they've actually improved their physical health all around because it's kind of been like a jolt to get it together. Yeah and that's what happens and all of a sudden you're not bulletproof anymore and these little things hickia because like I said I've had no I've been healthy pretty much all my life and then yeah just this one air comes and smack you inside of the head and pulled you up a bit but yeah I'm not the only one a lot of guys get it and women too well not not the prostate this is that's the other thing too you go through these stuff you know when your wife's had kids and all the other stuff that they have you know they've been prodded and poked and God knows what else yeah yeah by the by the medical profession and you but yeah so what do you wish just to wrap it up that someone had told you at the very start of this journey so if you could like talk to any guy who's just been diagnosed well what do you wish that you're used to back then oh number one is no death sentence at this day yeah look well it's a bit of a hard one really I think number one is binding a mate or someone that you can talk to and just go through the system and then a lot of guys will go some will some will be okay let's go through it others will fall on a bit of a hole I get it but as long as you got someone I think that's been through the system it's a bit like going a war if you haven't been there you don't know yeah at least if you're talking to a guy that's had it experienced it doesn't pull any punches at least you can go step by step so you know what what you're going to run into and expect I think that's the big one because when you go into these things you don't know what to expect sometimes I was lucky I'd have made that give me the warts and all so when I went in did the biopsy he said yes this this that that and I knew that was coming and the way he explained it I said shoot I'm in for a while to hurt you but I didn't think it was too bad but you know the yang and yang of everything so everyone's experience is different to the same thing but just knowing how someone else experienced it gives you some sort of heads up and I think you know in their medical profession we you know I mean our appointments are minimum of 30 minutes to an hour but most people only get to see their person you know their health professional for 10 or 15 minutes and so that you're a bit overwhelmed it's hard to know what questions to ask and the health professionals trying to fit everything in into this tiny window so you know having someone that you can talk to or listening to you know interviews like this so that you can write a list so when you go in and you can use your 15 minutes well to ask all these questions and get as much information as you can I think it's really helpful yeah well like you said even with the podcast it's good to listen to guys that have been through it and every guy's got that little different little thing they'll touch on it's a little by their heard because doing these exercises you forget and you carry on and then all of a sudden you start urinating a bit and think oh shit I've got to get back to my exercises and I think one of the so when you go into the toilet sit there for next to two or three minutes do a few of those exercises you've got to try and stick it in during the day so I've sort of taken that on board and yes this little stuff that you can pick up and just make to that little bit easier yeah I think it's great and so and if you met a bloke who was six months post treatment and he's getting no erections and he's ready to give up what would you tell him oh yeah well don't and oh gee whiz um well he's doing ejections and he's not getting one I don't know what the story there is because yeah but I just mean someone who hasn't done anything they've just waited on a woman of prayer that it's going to come back would you say hey look go and get some help yeah yeah no definitely I think once again there's a lot of older people too they say I go to a sex therapist or whatever it is like that and then they sort of pack up straight away but it's not like that it's not just about the sex it's the actual general health of of you so go in there have a talk got options and go from there because yeah I think you're right I think a lot of people think you know I'm gonna go and see a sexologist or you know men's health specialist and they think god it's gonna be like that you know barbester ison on me the fockers I do have curly hair and a big nose like her but that's about it don't do all those other weird things um but I do yeah I think it's a nerve-wracking experience but even and I think there's so much around are you fine you need to worry about pain or rehabilitation if you want to have sex again but you die in mate you need to worry about it because you just want to have a healthy penis that you can use how it's intended not have it shrinking back into your body all the time yeah well and that's exactly right that that's and that's the sort of information that they got to have they say look you go see this lady will go through it all and that you do this because of like those things that you just meant them you know so it doesn't trivial up and disappear I know a guy down here he hasn't gone down that road and he hasn't said that to me but just joking he says oh you know yeah just watch it disappear and all the rest of it so somewhere on the line I'll probably have a bit of a chat to him to to think about why he's a girl now I've seen a lot of guys you know three or four years down the track that were like I wasn't in the sexual relationships I didn't bother but now I can't even pee standing up anymore and you know all of that is avoidable and fixable so my big message to anyone out there is don't just let it go like you know you wouldn't have a paralyzed arm and just leave it hanging so just look after every party your body it all had a purpose yeah and everything's connected to something else so that's exactly right and the main reason I wanted to interview you Mark was because you're so positive and I mean you're young you had a glistening and you've been through people are really frightened about radiation and and after that after they've had surgery and I think like you're a perfect example of someone who's gone through all the stages and you're still living a really full life yeah well like I said it's uh the other option's not a good one so yeah like I said pull your finger out just keep on moving and yeah and I'm still getting the test done yeah they're going down which is really great on the realist there's always that chance it may go up again but bugger it will deal with that if that does happen so hopefully it doesn't but um and if it does they'll just zap it again oh and that's right yeah just keep going like I said yeah you just got to be a bit real about things I think and um yeah now I just don't like the other alternative it's a shit one thank you so much for your time today I really appreciate it and um I hope I know it's the middle of winter now there's not too much firefighting going on so I hope you're having some downtime before it all start up again yeah no it might just get everything ready and um yeah in a few months and a while we go again no doubt all right thanks very much Mark thank you Melissa thank you for listening to today's episode of the penis project if you're enjoying the podcast I'd love for you to leave a review and subscribe for regular updates your support helps spread awareness and ensures more men can access this vital information the more followers we have the more podcast platforms recommend our show helping even more men get the answers they need need expert guidance on your pain our health at restorative health clinic our team of highly experienced practitioners including myself and three other specialists offer online consultations to men worldwide whether you're dealing with erectile dysfunction peronis disease prostate health concerns premature ejaculation or just want to optimize your pain our 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Do you have a personal story to share, or are you a health professional working in this field? I'd love to hear from you. If you'd like to be a guest on the podcast or have a specific topic you'd like us to cover, email me, [email protected]. Thanks again for being a part of the penis project community. Until next time, take care. And remember, your health matters.