6 CPG Funnels: How We Study Ads, Landers & Offers

Welcome back to operator's bill. This is episode 11 today is just Cody and I. We're going to do a little switch up for everybody instead of just showing you our stuff. We want to take you behind the scenes of how we work. One of the things that I like to do, I know Cody likes to do, is we look to other brands to see what's working, how are they approaching certain problems, whether they're creative, like basically steady their funnels. I want to caveat that with one thing. I think the industry right now is rampant with like everybody's basically building giant digital copy ears and copy machines. This is an AI thing. It's like it's very easy to scrape an ad library, pull out concepts, and then literally just duplicate the ad. That's just a race to the bottom. It feels very like arbitragesy and temporary that is not the way to build and during enterprise value. You might find like quick, cheap wins by doing that. What we're going to do today, what I hope you take away from this episode is how to study people in the industry. I've got three brands. Cody's got three brands. We're going to show you why we picked these brands. They're not going to be super obvious and we tried to get some variety, right? Like we're building a supplement brand so we wanted consumable oriented brands and why we liked them. We're going to show you the ad account, the landers pricing offer. Cody, I think that added that like approach and just like research, I guess. Yeah. Now I agree with that. You got to know everyone is running the same playbook. I feel like I first saw like hollow socks, like the 10 reasons why, right? Like very specific, kind of hybrid, mystical, advertorial. Like everyone's running the same playbook and you should. Like you should, but don't just copy like get inspo and understand what's working, but like don't look at you shouldn't like I shouldn't be able to tell from your lander like, oh this is an exact ruins replica. This is an exact hollow replica. You know, like have some originality, but I think what we're going to try to do is like show the principles and we're going to talk about it and like, hey, here's what we could learn from these guys, you know, and here's what we could learn from these guys. So we're not just ripping one. And then the other thing I would say is like, we tried our best to pick them. Big brands that are not the most talked about ones just to make it more interesting. So we're not talking about IMA, we're not talking about resilience. I think I have one brand who's very popular and talked about, but I want to highlight them because I think they do such a great job. But yeah, otherwise we try to pick some sleeper heads. I know everybody right now is like rise, resilient, javvy, grooms, IMA. Like there's just like the top list that everybody just rips off, you know, and like these are our friends. Like we were in chat groups with all these guys and it's like they always laugh at how many people just copy their stuff. Without even knowing the numbers behind each ad, I think that's the interesting thing. Like when I was looking at some of these these brands, and I'll show mine in a second here, to me when I look at a brand, it's less interesting. If I look at like, well, what is their top spender? It's a data point, right? But I think the thing that's missing is like, I don't know the culverts behind that ad. I don't know if it's like which stage of awareness or five. I can take a guess by looking at the ad, but I don't know the purpose of that ad in the business. So to just like straight up rip it off, I'm not doing that equipped with the full information of what purpose that thing is going to serve. So like just taking an ad and copying it for my own company, like I don't know, it feels foolish. Like I wouldn't copy anybody's anything, right? I'm here to learn and try to refer. And then we, you and I talk and we build what we think works for our brand. So I think that's like a full context of it all. So dude, why do I, I'll share screen first and I will show you my first brand. And let me know if you've ever heard of these guys. So I did a little different. I actually went out of the US for the first one. And I wanted to find. And I did it. I'm like not, if not Canadian and not American. And I went to the UK and my first one is nutrition geese. So I was looking for like, who do I think is spending a lot? I have no idea if they're spending a lot of money. I think they are like there's 860 ads in this account. And there's pretty good variety like statics, visual like video. There's UGC. And this is sorted by impressions. So like, this is clearly spending a decent amount. That's been running out long like since September 29th. But it's obviously getting a lot of impressions. I just thought their status were really good. And I thought the variety of faces and visuals and angles, also really good. Headlines are good. Like, like, these are very basic ads. You know, that it was actually really encouraging. I'm like, these are not fancy. These like, shot on an iPhone. It is like a guy just like waving his hands, right? You can't hear that. But it's all it is is like, and then it's a straight offer. What I also thought that you'll see this with all three of the brands. They all have very different funnels. Nutrition geese was like very, I want to say like classic funnel. So when you click on any one of these ads and you go through to the lander, the landers, that's their home pages. That's their brand. But the landers are basically PDPs. Okay. And I'll show you kind of what I did. How do I got to all these? But these are their most popular landers. I have a, like, I'm sure everybody does at this point, but I have an ad scraping quad co project that basically like uses appify. So nutrition geeks, right? You guys just saw the ad library. I'll show you the lander in a second. But these are their top land, like 247, 206. Like here's the landers. And here's what's in each one. It's like straight up PDPs. And they are like almost what I liked about them versus the other guys I showed is like these ones. I think are like very like single ingredient. Like you are buying a magnesium. You're buying an apple cider vinegar of creatine. And then they have like different bundles and things. So I thought that was actually really cool. Like their product catalog. So this is what my scrape looks like. I just use appify and cloud code and just rips through the thing and pulls out the landing pages grouped by how many ads have them. And that to me is like usually an indication of like, okay, they clearly sell a lot of magnesium like and a lot of creatine. Like that's these are big focused areas for them. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Aftersell. Let me start by saying there is something that all of the best operators have figured out. And that is a new customer is expensive as hell to acquire. So every extra dollar you can get out of that new customer. Well, that's just basically free money. Ridge uses Aftersell, simple modern uses Aftersell, Jones road uses Aftersell, Peely uses it, upsells downsells in the cart, check out after purchase, plus rock. So the moments right after someone buys make you money instead of doing nothing. Same traffic, more revenue, sounds kind of obvious. We're building wings right now. That's why you're listening to this show. And Aftersell went into the stack on day one, not a bolt on for later when we decided we wanted to finally get smarter. Look, Black Friday is coming. You know it. I know it. Your traffic's going to go up. Your ad costs go up even more. Every single visit is worth more than it was last month. You do it right. So don't just spend more to buy more customers. Make every visitor worth more. That's why we partnered with Aftersell. This is just fascinating. So like, let's go to their magnesium. So this thing is a PDP lander like classic PDP. You buy one pack, you pack four pack. I don't think this is a subscription. Was that preselected? Yeah, was that third one preselected or you had to? No, no, no. Like when you land on this page, the first one is preselected. Okay. That's an interesting thing. Yeah, free gift. Yeah. And then like free turmeric, free vitamin D. So it looks like they just like they bundle in their other skews as their free gifts. One, two, four is not that common. I feel like one, three, six is much more common or like buy, buy two get like we're doing the buy one, buy two, get one, buy three, get two. Like I see that more often. I don't see the one, two, four, but maybe it makes sense for them with the quantity or something like that. I actually, that this was interesting. Like putting your like trust pilot. I hate trust pilot. I think they're just like extortionists on the internet. But like these guys clearly lean into it. And that most consumers will encounter a trust pilot review at some point. So like to have them kind of on page is interesting to me. Yeah. Well, I think like social proof that can't be faked. And all as I, when I share some mine, I'll share some examples. Like I think I would guess, right? Like we should try to like sum this up into like what all these brands will do well. They probably all have really good offers. They probably all go very heavy on social proof. But social proof that can't be faked because like anyone can, you know, just put a testimony on. But most brands aren't kind of ripped like fake trust pilot or you know, you get like real photos. So I like that a lot actually. Yeah. I think I mean, yes, there's a lot of, I've encountered a lot of supplement brands, especially when I was researching. I'm like, these are just clearly fake. Like it's so obvious. Like you're four months old. You don't have 150,000 customers. I like it's like so obvious. Whereas these guys and like everything looks pretty legit. So I like this section, the like wire customer switching. Right. So like us versus others, they don't name their actual like other. It's just sort of like a, you know, generic. And there's reviews. So like this is not a complicated lander. And maybe it's because they are big. Like maybe they don't have to do a ton of work here. I liked the whole flow. I like this is actually like pretty easy. And then what I also like is I'm and I'm pretty certain dude that this is not a forced subscription. No, because it would have to show and check out. So yeah, they're going no sub. Was there even a sub offer on that page? I didn't even see enough sub offer. No, like this is another one, apple cider vinegar, like it's just one pack three packs six pack. This is what the Calvin from knobs was like he's he was sort of taken this position that like, you know, tricking and forcing people in a subscription is just like generally not a great direction. If you're trying to build a real brand, you know that you should if you have a good product, you should just stand by the good product. So maybe that is their approach here is that like they probably have great chords and great LTV and they just don't need to force the force the subscription. I mean, these are also like pretty common products like if you look at their site, they are selling ingredients that are very popular. Like all of these are super, super popular. Each of them has their own tam. So they they basically run like product funnels from ads. So it's like high volume of ads, white listing, lots of creative variety, creative diversity, and then just like dedicated funnels by product. And then, you know, because it's supplement nutrition, most of their ads in the account are like extremely problem solution. So it's like struggling with energy. Um, you know, calms my mind. Like there's just these are classic ads. Like very simple for that. That was really good. Yeah. Yeah, but clear versus clever. Yeah. Right. Um, there's not a lot I didn't like about what I saw here. Like I mean, whoever's running this company, like, man, hats off like you're, I just love it. I think it's really great. And they're in the UK. Yeah. What would you do if you were to say like one one thing that they could do? I didn't find any top of funnel landers. Again, not knowing the size of this company. I'm assuming decent. Um, I'm surprised that I don't see more like, well, what what is turmeric? You know, like I'm going right from ad to like apple cider vinegar, support your metabolism, blood sugar. Like I would have expected to see like, advertorials and long form landers, especially to like from ads that feel a little more like, I'm unaware stage of customer awareness. Uh, and like, I don't want to learn a little bit. Say, maybe they just don't have to. Yeah. Same 100%. That that's where I met with like the straight forward. It's like that ad is a very good ad going to a, you know, a good offer page. But usually you'll see some type of a listicle, a little bit more dr yapper story base, something like that, higher funnel. Yeah. It's like higher funnel upper funnel activity. You know, like the ads, I feel like there's definitely ads that feel that way. But my other thought there was, maybe they don't have to just because like these ingredients like apple cider vinegar is just so well known. Ashwagada is so well known. Like everybody in their dog is taking collagen. Like, these are all just really, really well known things that there's a ton of education in the market. And maybe they're just like using meta for what it's good at, which is just scooping in market demand. And they don't really have to worry too much about education. They're just like now, let somebody else do that. Because even ads, like most of the ads I'm seeing are like, stop overpaying for creatine. You know, here there was notes I got from this this week only. Like, they're very middle bottom of funnel ads as well. I'm sure they have some, some, you know, upper funnel ads like some sort needs works. But yeah, I agree much less than the conventional wisdom would probably be. Yeah, I love the, by the way, I will shut them out of this too. I really like the their image carousel on the PDP. Like every image is doing a job. Like it's selling, it's adding value props, it's like comparison, social proof. Like it's very Amazonny, which I think is just like a, if you're going to have a default to like, what should your buy box sort of like hero box on the PDPB? Like this would be how I think everybody should approach. If you're a D to C brand not taking tiktok shop seriously yet, then you need to be. That's where T-Bar partners comes in. They're the actual operators behind some of the biggest tiktok shop brands right now. Ridge, hex cloud, groons, most importantly, us at Winx and more. T-Bar built the system behind all of them, creator sourcing, sampling strategy, discord management. They help building a real loyal tiktok shop community and a huge bonus is they give brands a ton of high performing UGC content that crushes it on meta. So if you're looking to scale up tiktok shop, visit tbarpartners.com. I also like how on their offers, they get larger. So the one, two, and four, they're the box that they're in are actually slightly larger on each one. I think there's like a so design element to that just to show that. Yeah, like see this one's 136. This is what you were calling earlier. Yeah. The collagen glow up powder, like 136, six months supply, two free gas. I mean, these are not aggressive. Like you have to give them that too. Like, like these discounts are not crazy. I wonder how much of this is going to be an ignorant comment is like UK, like just maybe less competition less saturated. I don't know. But like look at this, right? It's like you're saving, I mean, it's not a huge discount, whereas like I a lot of sort of supplement funnels I encounter are like 50, 60, 70% off kind of claims. And this is just not doing that at all. Like this is a much simpler sort of funnel and flow. I think it's great. Uh, that's mine. Any other comments on nutrition geeks? That's my first. No, no, no, good, good, good find anything that you think we should look at for wings. You know, so we, we are testing right now just not on live site, but I'm like a paid funnel, like a no sub offer, just a bundle offer. I, I was actually very bullish on it, right? It was like, hey, you know, maybe it's a CPM thing, maybe it's just, you know, a new brand, like let's, I expected better conversion rate, better performance. It's been pretty slow to start starting to take off in the account. I can share some numbers later, but starting to take off, but less obvious than I would have thought. So I mean, but I, I do agree with that general thing is everyone has gone so hard into subscription, especially for new brand, like test it. I don't know if you saw this, but like here you have a toggle between one time and subscribe and save. Okay. Yeah. On their collagen. Yes. That's a few. It's like very upfront. You know, like one time subscribe and save. Like there is no sneaky here. All right. I'm going to go number one first brand. I have Norse Organics. Are you familiar with them at all? A little bit. So I don't know too much about them. I, I am extremely impressed. I definitely see them get talked about. I think they're just putting on a, but they're not, you know, they're not like a resilient or something like that. I think they're just putting on a DR master class in offer creation, landers, and ads as well. So I think that they're doing a really great job. You know, people talk about primal queen a lot. Like they're great. I almost put them. They're awesome. Yeah. I think these guys are similar. You know, similar space where I feel like this like, right, this like tallow healthy control, like, you know, primal thing is like definitely having a moment. And so here's what I like. So if we look at, you know, ads, they obviously show the visuals very well, right? They're, they're very, you know, iPhone native, like email, female. That jumps out to me. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. You know, very, very, obviously just problem aware problem focus. You know, it's great. I got some founder stuff. I haven't really seen that. But they, but they just show the visual super well, right? Yeah, I know. It's like so striking. Yeah. Look at the background on that one static dude. By the way, and these guys are not precious about the brand. That's one of things. No, clearly. Yeah. Even on their like main site, right? Where most brands have like, this is the name of the product. They just like name the offer bundle, like fix acne thing. Like they're very just DR through, which like you got to respect it. But yeah, they show very strong transformations. So highly recommend their ad library. They're definitely like Gen Z. Like you can even see some of the ads like they're showing the mom and selling to the kids. But isn't that interesting? Yeah. So some very strong visual before and afters that I can only imagine are real. You know, you never know, but like they're clearly showing people acting. So like very thumb stopping. From a visual perspective, product is is very well situated, right? Oh, look at that injection busters. Like it's so pricey. No, 10 step routines. Like these are all great objection busters. These guys will, I think like DR people know this. But like the, they will break like when we look at landers, like break a lot of the missed people have. I'm like, oh, you got to have, you know, like skimmabuller sort of like very copy heavy. Like very DR playbook applied to GTC. So it's like, yeah, it breaks my heart. Oh, that's good. It breaks my heart watching my son struggle at severe acne every day. God. Sell them to the mom. Yeah. Go mom. Yeah. I love that kill acne. This is the thing like, so my like right away, the the variety in the ad account and like the number of different people there. It's like, there's one problem, but they've taken the one problem in the one product and they're basically like finding lots of paths to lots of different customers, which get a better. Exactly. Yeah. different formats and visuals. It's also just, it's very clear, right? Like it's very clear what they're doing, who they're going after. Oh yeah. Like we know they're going after kids with acne, we know they're selling to kids and moms. It's just, it's very clear. I think as we get through the library, you can probably see more of like the emotion behind it and there's very strong, deeper emotional reasons that acne sucks. And so they do a good job of that. They go full funnel, right? It took that native ad feeling like they're really all over the place. Man, bravo guys. Yeah, very, very, very good visuals, right? Talked about the suffering. So like if, you know, if you watch the ad say they get into a lot of the different one, the different, you know, emotions behind having bad acne as a teenager, which is like very, very clear. And then let's go to some of the funnels which most AI tools right now are all promise and no delivery. You know exactly what I am talking about. Super fancy launch videos. This is why I'm in loving what Rich panel is doing. They have AI and support smashed together, made a practical, made it useful, made it valuable to brands today, not on some future promise. And instead of asking you to spend weeks writing prompts and uploading help docs and babysitting, they flipped the whole script. There AI builds your support team for you and everything it needs. I've watched it. It works. It's freaking amazing. Rich panel even guarantees 50% of your support volume will be automated by AI within 30 days or your money back. I call that a no brainer offer. If you are interested, go to richpanel.com/demo, not for some generic demo, but to actually book a call and watch them build your actual support team. What are the landers? Yeah, like what's the rest of the funnel of like, does every, are they like fully congruent? You know, so like each question. So they have a few, right? They do a lot of the PDP style ones, but they also have kind of regular landers. So if we go this one here, oh yeah, look at really good lander. And if it had line, get their confidence back in nine days. Very specific. High-risk free. Nine days. Very good design, visual hierarchy of that. Yeah. These guys have and primal queen does well tolerance of social proof. Like so many different ways that they've done it. So I mean tons of volume here. And it's not just it's not just 750,000. By the way, it's also little DR hack. Don't say 750,000. Say a very specific number. Yeah. Yeah. But they don't just say customers. They say acne sufferers, sufferers cured. Like they're very, they're very, everything is very intentional with like problem solution. Nothing is about brand ingredients. I mean super emotional to like look at that, dude. Like look at the sandwich that's happening between the headline and the bar. So it's like get your get their confidence back in nine days. And then like the bar, my son and tears the morning after using this for stubborn night. Like it's just like emotion, it's like an emotional sandwich. It is emotional. And then like trying to risk through the middle of the sandwich. And it's almost all about the user, the consumer, right? It's not you know, it's not 750,000 people love our product. Like everything is about what? Nothing about that. Yeah. Which is which is great. Obviously clear offer. Right. Try it risk free. Right. Is a big one risk free. Obviously they got some of the DR stuff like high demand stock is limited. Lots of social. We're so good. Speaking of the social proof that you can't fake. Images, right? And then also what looks like Facebook screenshots. So it's not beautifully designed things. It's very real, very raw. You know, walls of social proof, but that can't be faked. It's like very convincing. Yeah. Yep. Is really good. Objection. Thank yours is too severe to clear. Hmm. Risk reversal. I love their guarantee, their return policy. Like it's like 60 days guaranteed. I mean, more social proof. There's press. There's doctors. Oh, doctors and mothers. Oh, yeah. There it is again. Just like, I know. Social proof. Which I think in this space, you kind of need like the whole like acne space is one of those things where it's very clear if it works or doesn't work. It's not like a typical supplement brand where it's like you really don't know if it's working or not. Um, acne is like, no, it's still here. It's not. So I think the social proof is like got to do double duty in acne is a category because you are overcoming a lot of like, I have tried everything. There's so much. Oh, it's a, it's a super bright take like breakthrough advertising term like sophisticated market, right? You have the acutane and all that other stuff. And so not only do you need such a lot, but I also think the product with the mechanism works super well like people because like the acutane and or, you know, I think that's what proactive is it like is very damaging to your skin. And, and when I'm like, this is like a very different mechanism. That's like a very natural thing. Uh, yeah. Parents want to put, we'd prefer to put that on their kids. So like, they have a lot of that. But also, I think like the social proof, all the different formats of it is also really interesting. Yeah. Have some actresses. They have, I guess they have doctors. I don't really see them in here. But yeah, they have a few doctors. Right. They have, yeah. So that's authority, right? They have authority here. And then they have results. Social proof too. So good. Let's go down more, right? Like God more, more, more. They just like layer it in, man. And lots of before after, which is pretty crazy. Yeah. Um, like, I noticed, yeah, they've done this twice and talked about timing, which I would be surprised by because I would imagine with such a sophisticated market, they would be more skeptical to like a timing thing, like fixing it quickly. But maybe that's important to them. So I mean, I think she kind of highlighted that when it comes to language, if you're selling to women, like, expectation management is important. Um, and this page to me feels very built for mom. Yeah. But I would have thought like, it would have been longer term. And that like, promising reveals unbelievable kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I would have thought. But, but clearly they do it there in nine days. Um, how do they sell it? What's the offer? Like, is it a subscription is it? So here's, here's, I think they do a wonderful job offers. Um, I mean, just just a offer masterclass, right? Yeah. The name of the bundle, the offer, right? So talking about like offer creation, which just for everybody who's, you know, new to an offer is what you're selling, the price, discounts, terms, gift of purchases, all of that stuff, everything. Plus, plus also the promise as well. And so I just think they've packaged it so well. They're not saying this is, you know, like, this is the night bomb, or this is the night plus day bomb. It's the complete system for acne prone skin. Like, it's so clear what it is, what it, who it's for. Like, I don't even really know. And maybe this would be feedback. And it's like, probably I'm wrong about it. Like, it's actually not super clear to tell what's in it. Like, you can't really read that super well. There's no bullets here. Like, this is all benefit driven. But it's like, what are you actually getting? Yeah. What are you telling me to put on my skin, kind of thing? Yeah. Well, like, what are these three products? More on the page. It just feels like they're not going to miss that. Every brand I talk to has the same problem right now. You need way more ads and you need better ads. We have agencies, creators and AI that all help with the volume. But then there can be a week of back and forth. There's a lot of logistics and a lot of people in the way before any of it is even ready to launch. At Wings, we skip all of that. We have runeth that's helping with everything. Runeth makes almost all of our statics directly in Slack. They come out launched pretty much one-shoted, uploads them, analyzes them, does all of it. Runeth also helps with our tribe. We're getting so many videos. But we want to make sure that they are appropriate and hitting the right things. Runeth has been trained on all of the feedback and comments that I've given to tribe creators. So it is briefing them. It is QAing all of them. And it's messaging them feedback based on what's working in our ad account. Runeth has started building all of our landing pages for us. A lot of people are talking about having ad and landing page compliance together. Runeth has made that possible by allowing us to ship really good landing pages very quickly. Runeth has a homework. It has all of the context of Wings and our performance. If you want to check it out, go to runeth.com and start your 14-day trial. Tell them Cody sent you so they can hook you up. So what is it? So it's 76. Okay, so it's sort of like very visual, 46%. I'm assuming that's a subscription. Yeah, say 46% off with our flexible plan. Flexible plan. No contracts. Cancel with the ease. That's kind of funny. It's a subscription. Warning low stock notice. Okay, so you toggle. If you toggle, it's even taking away. So like, I love that. That's the whole like, nobody like 30% off as a bundle or 46% off as a subscription. Yeah, yeah. Congrats. You're saving. I love that. You got some like, uh, what do you call that? Where it's like, it's like loss of it. Like when it's like, your loss, the takeaway is the loss of version part. Uh, and then like, the congrats you're saving is like, oh, it's back. So if you toggle, I, does that go away? Like, if you toggle the thing, yeah. Oh, no, still it says it says it's still doing it. Okay. Okay. I feel it. It's obviously like a little gray hatty maybe, but they're being very general about it. They're not like, yeah, only 100 left. So like, who's to say it's not low stock, I guess. We are not on eBay watch out for fakes. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I wonder if that's like a real one or if that's just a DR thing to get them to buy it there. That is super interesting. I've not seen that very often. Oh, also trust pilot. There you go. Another one cleaning in a trust pilot. By the way, yeah. And so super long page, lots of stuff. Yeah, I think people get super skimmable though, right? Oh, yeah. They do a really good job with their design, visual hierarchy. So yes, it's a long page. You can get, and I'm really like big into design because I think it is so important. And design doesn't have to be pretty or whatever. You can get the message by skimming. Like, you know, you know what the offer is, you know what the benefit is, you know who it's for, you know it works for people just by skimming. That's I think what is so great about this page. Like, well, you have walls and walls of social proof, you know. I see they got, it's really got the the clinician's choice, you know. So they got some of that sharing ingredients. What's in them, which is definitely important. But get the pretty long form big section. So very similar, primal clean there. Yeah. Yeah. So they get more into the ingredients here. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, I was going to be surprised if they missed it. But yeah, no, that's really awesome. And then do very impressive. And what's cool? So like, I'm just on a landing page now. But if you go to home page and you go to, you know, like, even on their home page, it's very similar to landing page. It's very DR. If you go to products, right? Like, that's their main offer is, you know, just product page. So like, their whole site is kind of very funneled. A common mistake too for people when they see long landing pages is they'll look at analytics of long landing pages. And they'll say, you know, a lot of people don't get to the bottom. So why are they so long? Like, make something shorter. And I think what is also common is that that is true. It's just that the people that do get to the bottom are likely to buy. So like, scroll depth and purchase purchase likelihood tend to be pretty tightly correlated. Yeah. I've also tried a little to explain it, but you're like, yeah, it's not going to work on that many people like the like the length. But of the people like, the people that aren't going to get there want to buy anyways. Yeah. But the people that get there clearly have desire that clearly are looking for something. And more information is usually better to convince them than less information. Yeah. And I think in a product like this, we're like, it is a super sophisticated market. Lots of competition. That longer form where you just like, you put everything that a person could possibly need in one place. You are also making it easier on them to make a decision. So like, this is a highly researched, highly considered purchase. It makes sense to me that they would run longer form landers. Whereas like the one I showed, you know, I'm buying collagen. Like, I don't know how highly researched. I need to be about collagen. Like, it's kind of, it's like buying creatine like the kind of all the same. Yeah. You're right about that. That's a lot, dude. That's yeah. Yeah. No, it's I think it's a master class, but that's a good point. It definitely depends on your awareness and set and, you know, sophistication. Really good point. My next brand is Elevate. Elevate. Again, British company, I believe lots and lots. Like, when you look at this ad library, first thing I noticed, like, it's like number one. There's 2500 ads in this account, right? Lots of partnership ads, though. Like these guys are everywhere. And you'll see like not as much visual variety in the faces. Like, I just see a bunch of women that are roughly the same age. This is a collagen brand. Like, they are really focused on collagen. Colleges is a big tam. Lots of like lots of room. But you start to see some variation in the faces. Like, they get older younger. That always stands out to me. I think their copy is really good. Like, say goodbye to sagging skin. You know, here's a review one. Like a partnership ad review. I just think they've done a really good job. Like, clearly also not too precious about brand. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The kind of like the problem aware funds that we were talking about the first one could have. Like, it's just like a lot of customer language. I guess is how I would describe their ad library. Like, it's video white like partnership ad video with like, here's the language of the customer. But what I really like what you just showed, if you sort of like skip into their, let me just again, show you my little landing page thing here. Unlike nutrition geeks, where everything nutrition geeks was like largely PDPs and some like you can see like they had some pages. It looks like these are all product landers. But when you actually go into the landers, what you're going to notice, they are actually like quite long form. So like, clinically studied college and super blend for women. So again, I think it's like with acne, it's, you know, with Norse it's different, right? Like collagen very well understood. Huge ham. So like the way that they structured this page, like start my transformation, great call to action, now needed results guaranteed. Lots of that language that we were being told by Lena to say like, you've got to really focus on like expectations, right? So everything is about what you should expect to notice as you take the product. It's like benefits, lots of social proof. Again, start my transformation, social proof. Very clear who they're going after. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, super clear. Like look at this. Like tell me who they're going after. You have been listening to us talk for years about building nine figured durable goods brands. Hexclad, Ridge, simple modern Pila. When we sat down to build wings, there was never a question it had to be a subscription brand. And being the veterans, we can work with anyone, but we decided to work with skeo to build wings. Working with the team over at skeo has been awesome. We get to see all the stuff that the fast describing CPG brands are actually doing to acquire more subscribers and keep them longer. My favorite example of this has been incentivizing new customers to go from a monthly subscription to a quarterly subscription right after their first purchase, but before they get their first order. The team at skeo has been sharing insights on how much in portal flexibility to give subscribers when to change frequency, when to offer product swaps, when to do gifting, what rewards should look like? What is cancel flow optimization? The list is freaking endless and they have shared it all. They have been incredible to work with. They are bringing so much value to this partnership. Almost feels a little unfair. If you run a subscription brand, you should be talking with the team over at skeo. They know their stuff. Probably the best customer to go after. Yeah, totally great customer to go after. Start your transformation. But here's what I love this. This is why I picked this brand. It's like, what should I expect from consistent use of elevate collagen? It's like one week. Look at that. It's just so good. It's so clear. It's simple. The page hierarchy is great. Look at this. It's just so good. Again, you're like that whole ancestors thing. That ancestral, let's do it the old way. I have a feeling that AI is causing a lot of this. People are looking into the past and have a nostalgia for slower and simpler, and that brands like this and Norse, they're leaning into it. Primal Queen. Look at these guys. They're positioning it against Botox. Totally. It's very natural, holistic angle, which is at that habit of moment. Yeah. Look at this. The getting a needle. I don't know. Look how long this page is, too. It's a Facebook comment. That was something I originally picked up on the exact stuff's podcast. Just screenshot your Facebook comments. I know. Especially by the way, for a Facebook funnel. Yeah, for a Facebook funnel. It's like, it's a visual pattern that people have. They'll see Facebook comments. I just came from Facebook. That makes sense. When you're a brand targeting older women, there's a good chance. I bet you without seeing their ad account that a lot of their traffic comes from Facebook and not just heavy Instagram. Again, look at this. Every image has a purpose, has a job. This is the buy box. Very clear. Subscribe and say versus one time. Love this. No trickery. It's very well designed. Yeah. I was just thinking about it. That's what I actually really appreciate about them. It's like they're doing a lot of the DR stuff well, but in a very like non-tricky way. They're not like, hey, if you have parasites, they're doing a good job building a brand at the same time. And I don't mean it's like the most beautiful or whatever, but it just means like they're getting conversions by helping people fit it in their lives, see how it's gonna work, like good offers, stuff like that, but they're not deceiving or scamming. So they're very like, it's like a great white hat DR thing. Yeah, it's like a titting loss aversion. So like you can kind of see as like click around here, like what am I getting or not getting even all the way up to nine bags. It's like I get a free 15 minute consultation. That's cool. Although I don't know much about it. I love the ad to cart like this just that little visual treatment. I just love it. Yeah, that's funny. I think this is like a very, very, and then like, - Look at the FAQ, by the way. - Yeah, look how long you saw that. It's freaking crazy, man. Look at the, again, just like know your customer and then their ingredients are way, way down here at the bottom. Which I thought was interesting 'cause with winks, we went very like hear the ingredients first. So it's a little more about the product and a little like these guys are clearly very, know what about the customer and what about the expectation of using the product? Like, look how far down this page is, the freaking ingredients, where they get to shine a little bit. - And not the only one, right? Norse was the same. - Yep. So I think that's something that we can look at is like, maybe we need to have it, but the person who cares about the ingredients might also be the person who scrolls super deep in the page so that we can just like do way more social proof, way more benefit, benefit, emotion, emotion. And then like drop some of the like about us, about the product, about the ingredients, lower in the page. And then they sort of sandwich the ingredients between, again, more social proof, right? It's like, what do our customers think? F-A-G? - Even the images used for the ingredients, like again, 'cause most people are going to skin, like they got that natural feel. It's like, oh, this is natural. - Total beef natural cows, like. - Yeah, I love the membrane collagen is like, freaking sushi. (laughing) - Awesome. - Okay, give us your next one. That was mine. I'm gonna go little, I feel a little cop out, but I think they're incredible. So I'm gonna go Marsmen. I'm gonna go Zach Stuck's brand, Marsmen. Obviously gets talked about a lot. Very familiar, people are very familiar with it, but you know, there's a lot to learn from them, I think. Look at their ad library, okay. This ad, I highly recommend people watch. This is what I sent you last week. It's like their top ad right now. It's just like a guy who, it's very. - I don't say gray hatty, like I don't think it's a doctor, but he's wearing a coat. He's essentially talking like a caveman, and he's just essentially starting with a problem, just going very unique mechanism. Like I'm sure a lot of people will start ripping off this ad. It's just like a, it's like a yapper, but like, it's just like super, super simple authority. - Yeah, yeah, with a little authority. And then it's like as simple as possible. He's not even talking full sentences. - Just, you know what? - Interesting. They have a lot of offer bottom funnel statics that they run, but you can tell they have, you know, good diversity that I would say mid funnel ingredients, I love their statics. They do a great job on statics. - Very clear, very skimable. That orange works really well for them further, you know, to get attention. I like these, obviously they go a lot of high cortisol. They do a really good job with like mechanisms. They do that, you know, I like that they have women in there. Like this was a really good hook exposing side effects for my 52 year old husband. Like really good hook in there. - Yeah. - Obviously they'll have, you know, all the AI animated stuff. Man boobs gone or your money back, like super clear and easy. You know, super, super clear. You know, they do these kind of like POV style long form. So it's pretty good diversity in their account. - Yeah, you know what I appreciate about Mars, and why I think they're a good one to show, is I do feel like Mars cracks formats more often. Like they don't, I don't feel like Mars is copying everybody. Like they've really, like Zach runs a great machine around looking for new concepts and like concept development. One of the groups I'm in Zach was in there, and he kind of ran through like his creative process, and it's very intentional. Like they are, they're just a dial machine, dude. I think they're, they're talked about a lot, but I think for good reason. And it's not just like hacky clergy, like they actually spend a lot of time cracking formats. - I'm getting back into the weeds. And one of the things I'm probably the rustiest on is emails. And I'm super excited to be using on new sand. They're using them on links. We're AI pill, we are using it to do everything. I'm running most of our email program from Cloud and Codex using the MCP, and it's awesome. We also have email, SMS, and pop-ups all in one place. We have all of our flows, welcome series. It's all talking to each other. I love the platform. The analytics are really good to highly recommend it, especially if you're in position the wings is in, new brand starting out. But if you're on their own platform and you're paying too much and you wanna switch, they will do the migration completely for you. No loss data, no loss list. Takes only five days start to finish. And they are giving our listeners 30% off the first three months. Go to omnesend.com/9operators to try it out for yourself. Yeah, and I know Zach keeps his ear to the ground. He's super humble and curious, but he's not like, let me rip that. He's like, let me see what's working. Let me see how we can, he's doing it from like a learning perspective. Yeah, you know, they got some. And also my Mars is like, I mean, again, they're Elcaterton now. They're like becoming more of a brand. And so it's very like I amate style, right? But they're not like just like gray hat black hatty. So they're not doing stuff like that. They got James Harrison, like NFL, you know, alumni in there doing, doing stuff. Like he's got, you know, they've got UFC partnerships. Like they do a good job of that. I thought I saw some GLP one, but maybe they're going after TRT. So this is like a mid funnel, you know, natural, by the way, natural, you know, approach to testosterone. So I think there's that other natural thing that's coming out again. Interesting. So here's exposing aside effects for my 35 year old husband, right? Yep, if you go up here, and I think it's ranked by, you know, impression or ad rank here. So they're just like, all right, this worked well. Let's go, let's go, go. And I was trying to do this at Jones Road, not with like full effectiveness, but like, all right, it worked for 50s. Yeah, let's just, let's just scale this to 25. Let's scale this to 35. Yeah, you know what actually like, let's call that out. So the way that one of the things I like that Mars does is he has like a very, like they clearly have a testing sort of like supply chain that they follow. So like when they find a new concept, crack it, then they find ways to go deep into the concept. So like variety of faces, variety of formats, shoot styles, AI animations, not like they just go very, very deep once they crack one. But if you look at their account, what I notice is they're just they're trying lots of different angles. Like they're always trying to crack another concept. I agree, it's very, very different. I think it's, it's definitely one of the best high libraries. Right? Oh, yeah, there's their AI animations. Remember those ones? Those are like, they're all areas. Yeah, so yeah, I think great. We'll look at landers now. You know, you said AI static, but definitely one. And it's, I think it's one of the larger brands. Now that you could still learn from it for, you know, like it's not like they're like, uh, whatever, it's like a ritual or a CA to where it's like, or even an IMA, like, there's still a lot to learn from this, you know, right? Yeah, they're running like a very good tactical, tactical setup. All right. If we go landers, let's have a look. I'm curious now, because I haven't looked in a little bit, but they were like heavy quiz. I'm curious what it looks like. I think they've a little bit more diverse about it. So all right, this is actually really cool and interesting. Um, I mean, there's, you know, multiple landers with very different, and I know a lot of people talk about that, like landing page diversity. They have some that are very different. So here's the first one we'll look at. So this is like a, you know, I'll call it a lander. It's not a listicle. It's not our patrol. Just good, good, you know, pre-sell sales page lander, offer plus emergency. You know, I don't know how I feel about the countdown, because I don't know that it's going the way. I never liked them as a, but it's like, I, I don't like them because of marketing. Well, I actually don't know that that's legal. No, to advertise a discount, just going away when it's not. You might be right. They might, like, I mean, I think the FTC has rules on that. So maybe, maybe, I don't know. Maybe it was a wait 24 minutes. Yeah, they have tons of social proof. What I, what I like, um, so they have a ton of that. They go a little bit more into, um, ingredients than some of the others earlier on. Mm-hmm. You know, so it's pretty skimmable. Um, they do try like language. I love that. Like try with the money back guarantee, like that combo of language is really good. Mm-hmm. Yeah, focus big on the guarantee. Yep. Um, you know, still, obviously lots of benefits and stuff, lots of social proof, you know, authority. So they have, you know, doctors as well as athletes. Um, I like going, I like how they go with the, you know, former athletes kind of trying to get their, their tea back. Yeah. Reclaiming their edge. I find really strong messaging. Mm-hmm. They do a great job with like visual social proof. So here they got actual labs. Yep. They got screenshots of labs, plus screenshots of reviews. That's interesting. Screenshots of reviews on other places. I haven't seen that like, and that's an Amazon review. I'm not seen that yet. That's cool. That plus labs. Yeah. They're like pulling an Amazon. That's hilarious. That's really funny. It's really interesting. And like, look at that. Your history, like screenshots of people's testosterone tests. Oh, my God. Yes, I remember by the labs. Very interesting. Cool. Obviously, tons of before afters. Like, this feels like, I don't know. You're probably familiar with like some of the like 90s, 2000s, like, infomercials, like P90X. That's kind of what this feels like here. It totally does. It's got the same vibe. Yeah. Everybody's in really good. Yeah. Like, it's like also like, uh, Mars, like, very clear who their customer is. Like, I've got to call that out. Absolutely. - So, yes. - Very, very, very clear. Yeah, great, great job of that, super clear. I think that's, again, that's for us to learn from as well. Like, I think that's what I was principal, so we can definitely work on. - Yep, I agree, I agree. - And again, just think about how many different forms of social proof they have. Just stacks and stacks, it's all super skimable. It's just like, boom. - I think that's something that we have to do like on, on Winx's like, we have enough customers now that we should be doing more like social proof harvesting and like actually, like I think I bet you they go out and they actually really incentivize to get this kind of content. - No, I agree, but it's something that's hard in the beginning and like you said, we don't want to make it up, right, especially because we're building this properly. We can't be like 300,000 reviews. So it's like, that is to do the hard thing. - Yeah, yeah. - But I agree, we can go more and then more different formats of it. Like, we got to figure out what is our version of this before after? Like, is it the scale? Is it the labs, is it the sleep score? Like, what is our before after that we can show like this? I mean, we should absolutely do sleep score. Like, even Dr. Born will drop stuff and slack for us, right? Cause he has clinical patients that he consults with for sleep and he's like, the Winx product works. Like, he gets reviews from people. It's like, this is actually a great product and scores improve and energy improves all that stuff. So like, we just, we can learn a lot from these guys and like lean into that social proof. - Yeah. - And I'm sure that it's like, make it front and center. - I agree, I agree. Just like building a system to get it, you know, all the time. - Love it. - Again, just tons of that. - Gotta love Mars, man. Like, they just crush. - And then one thing on the offer. And so, they go, I believe you can only subscribe. I don't see-- - Right, they don't do a one time. - Yeah, and they're clear about it. They're not saying subscription here, but they're, obviously it's clear, it's, you know, refills. So like, they put it here and they put it here. Very legal. And it's 50% off for life. Like, their language is definitely leaning to like, this is subscription. But I think they disarmed that with like, try it now and a guarantee. So they're giving you that like, one, two punch as a consumer. - I agree, the guarantee, the try it now, the tons of social proof. - It's cool to show different ways to do it. They got some gifts in there as well. And I've talked to Zach about this. Like, a lot of their gifts like ladder is like a strength that like, it's just habit formation. How can we do everything we can to help these people be successful? And actually, for their tea. And so I really like, because if they're successful, then it's like, they're, I bet you their retention is better. That's a great one. All right, let me, let me tee up my last one. I chose this one because of funnel. And I just thought it was different from everybody else. So some people might know this one. And it is spoiled child. And you pointed this out. This is an oddity brand. - Yeah, yeah. So Il Makiage is like their first one. And then yeah, this was the second one that they started. But it's been, it seems like it is ripping, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, look, 780 ads. Their top ads are all like these things like new to collagen. But dude, actually, you know what the reason I released, I chose it is because like lots of ads in Spanish, which I thought was very interesting. And then tons of partnership ads. Like partnership ads just statics, videos like, yep, lots and lots of variety. Which I, yeah, I know like partnership ads static. I'm like, don't see that very often. But you can kind of see like this Tia Maori, like they're clearly leaning into her. But good variety, good like variety of faces. But the Spanish thing kind of threw me for a loop, especially like this is sorted by impressions. So it's gonna be like, these are getting spent. Like for sure they are. With a grand assault. But the real reason is they are basically fully quiz funneled. Like every single ad, every single ad, that's all the top ads all run to this style of page. So like, how does your skin feel most days? And then look at this one, different one. Does any of the below apply to you? So like, I don't know how this stuff works for them. But you can kind of see like you go through this thing, like you're gonna have to like just click stuff for people really quick. Let's have a look, Cody. I should have one already. I'll mock you out. I'll mock you out, it was the same way where everything was quiz funneled. They were, they were very quiz funnel. Yeah. Help it's serious. Right? Like, ooh, I'm doing work. So like this is just a classic quiz funnel. And then you gotta put in your email and your phone. And then it'll take you to thereby. But I thought interesting that at this scale, they only run to a quiz funnel. Yeah, I think that would be, and I didn't get to, I don't want to spend too much on Mars, but that would be probably my like, if I had any feedback for them, like versus Mars, like they have quiz funneled, they had 10 reasons, they have standard, and it was like, I do think that is a very important diversity mechanism. Yeah, so like you can just sort of see like everything in here is a version of the same thing. And like, this is a pretty significant spread, like 169 ads are just going to this quiz funnel. How does your skin feel most days? Which I thought, like, just so interesting to not see any variety in the style of lander that they do. But I think their ad variety is great. I think the copy is good. I love the Spanish English thing. Even the landing page, by the way, they have a Spanish version of that quiz funnel. So like they are congruent in the language. So like you're going from a Spanish ad to a Spanish lander and that that was actually pretty cool. But yeah, that was my third. I mean, anything that, I mean, like, have we tried quiz on wings? I think we did, didn't we? 'Cause you're a fan of the quiz funnel. Yeah, I built one. 'Cause I actually wasn't going to. I was like, oh it's early, we have only one skew. And Zach was like, no, like you should. And if you know, it's like, 'cause like for me, quiz is like, all right, beauty coming from beauty, like help people, they're saying, like great. You know, when you have one skew, it's like, but it just goes to show you like, I don't know if it's gamification. I don't know if it's like, quizzes can be a good way to help people learn, understand things. Like, like, right, 'cause the framing of Mars is not, you know, we'll help you find your, like they had one skew at the time. But it's like, it's like a diagnostic funnel, kind of, you know? Right, and so I like it for that. So yeah, we've tested, I just, you know, I think we're testing again. But I'll leave my feedback on these guys. It's just like, I do think they're a little bit stuck in an older playbook a little bit, like, especially Elmashage, like, very, like, tube science-y style, like, iterative. Yep, and I think, like, there was a slightly different playbook that, you know, there's slightly later on. Yeah, that's a good feedback. That's interesting. Lanny Page diversity is part of that. Totally agree. Cool. All right, what's your third and final? Who you got, man? I'm gonna go with boost coos. Know him as bar. He started this, he used to work for, I think he worked for no commerce. I forget. Awesome guy, who's in Denver, friends at Conor Relay. I believe Bootstrap don't quote me on it. Has this protein coos coos brand that he started. And we're gonna shout out 'cause there's a lot he's doing actually really well. Just brought on somebody to lead growth is, you know, doing really well growing. And so excited to kind of look and shout him out. One thing I know about what he did initially, he started organic first. And you know, saw him creating content. He like started this while he was still working full time. And when he launched ads, I can tell you his CPMs were very reasonable. And so I, I don't know if it's 'cause it's not supplement maybe, but I do think going hard on organic to start helped him here. Yep. And then I know his top ads for a while were founder ads. Oh yeah, well obviously, right? 'Cause that was like, how he kind of, that was his organic play. So yeah. So I think he learned, I think he probably did cut 30. I believe he did. Yeah, he learned content from that. So like I respect that a ton. And I think that's a great way to do it. Dude, I just signed up for cut 30. Nice. Nice. I'm gonna learn. That's awesome. So yeah, I mean, good amount. I know that you noticed this right away, but like, good amount of content. Yeah, I was so surprised. 'Cause like, I think what's nice about highlighting this too is like, boost boost is a newer company. Probably not at the scale of Mars. Oh, I did definitely not at the scale of Mars. And elevate and, like you could tell. Like there's 60 ads in this account, not 600, right? Or 6000. Yeah, I mean, look, apparently it's a really good product. And I think, I just, I love to see the variety that he's got in the account. Yeah, at this stage, like he's doing all the right things. Is there any partnership ads? Like did you see some white listing stuff or is that mostly all Gigi's? I don't think I would see it. There's some. I don't know how much. Oh, there we go. Yeah, like that's, like, yep. Yeah. So it's not just like tribe creator or style, it's. So he's got some. And you could, yeah, with tribe, you can get white listing. So he's got some, which is great. That's true. Yeah. Looks like he's going pretty big in the gluten free. So like, I would think about, and I think he's probably got enough customers orders, but far, if you're listening with like tips, right? Like to do, I would, I would think about messaging and just like building several funnels around it. It was, it should be how I would try to scale this. So like, if I was to look in reviews and all that stuff, I'd imagine like gluten free is probably one big angle. Protein is probably another one. So like, that's another one, right? And like, if you compare this, right? And I was, I was consulting with like a 20 million, like an investor who's talking to like a, about a 20 million dollar brand yesterday. Like, the feedback I gave them and they were struggling to grow was like, everything is about the brand, right? It's just like very precious of the brand. Everything but the ad is this percent off. Or it's like, this is the product. And I think maybe this here is slightly more. is it's about the product right and like just go with the people and who they are right struggling to hit your protein on a GLP one boom like that's probably gonna be a funnel out go with you know gluten free like go to who the consumer is and not you know that would be my my thought what do you think I would agree I would agree I think though like to be fair to bar it's probably like age and stage of company you know like my guess is that like this ad account is growing his business is growing and that he will get there like he will absolutely like layer those things in because it is it's a it's great advice for sure um I mean said that these consumable companies like that these supply chains are hard to scale up like these for sure so I can see like how you sort of like you have to step these all businesses up you got to step up with supply chain and stage of business but I just think like the visual variety I love it yeah yeah it's like he's all over the place I do like this branding a lot yeah I do like branding yeah yeah swap your rights not your cravings yeah no that would just be my my suggestions for like unlocking next phase of growth yep totally is there's probably a lot of like more problem focused angles I think more upper funnel problem focused angles um but yeah I mean I like these static say they look hey I generated but not in like a bad way at all like there's no there's clear you know uh no no no honestly like everything's gonna be a I generated so yeah um yep there's so yeah just like the messaging and and understanding insights and then building lenders so it's all going to homepage right now um yeah let's look at obviously a place to go test yeah yeah yeah I believe it is so yeah his home page is very like uh I mean most most great home pages are great landing pages right yeah yeah it's solid you know you got clear what it is showing what it is you know social proof really good reviews like product seems great uh yeah super skimmable you know uh so I think it's great but yeah I would just build some like listicles to just test different messaging around them yeah no it's it's very good it's very good you know execution can definitely be I I guess this is seven figure can definitely be a figure brand just with you know continuing to do what he's doing and yeah and just kind of getting that yeah almost I could almost see a world Cody where like see how each of these like kosher gluten free life is a free fiber protein like each of these could be its own like ad funnel like add to lander grueling funnel like vegan like you just like ads just for the vegans that should be yeah this page is going to take care of all of them in one big bucket but I would absolutely be testing like I'm going to build dedicated funnels and like full funnel marketing for each of those uh benefits because they all speak to a different cuss not different customer but like a different motivating reason to buy like if I vegan that's like that could be very strong reason for a vegan to buy this product yeah my guess if I was just spits balls I'm sorry I go with those I go vegan I go gluten free yeah maybe kosher I don't know I go GLP and I would try kids yeah struggling to get your kids for sure yeah probably the topic I do it and I would just try to build some listicles and then and then you know UGC partnership around those awesome man very cool all right dude did you have one more do you have a surprise one you told me you had something that you wanted to show uh that was a little off the wall we'll do one more so let's let's do whisper flow so wanted to share one was just like hey would be cool if we share one consumer that was not consumer workers so so in the in the reason why is um you know the hector for whisper flow went viral having his like UGC playbook and it was great it was amazing and but a lot of people were like hey the you know these guys are very behind ecom you know and and I don't know if I think so like I think there's a lot that we could learn from from SAS as well um but I think it's cool to show like what they're doing well and what they're you know maybe could improve upon and everyone's gonna say like oh well they they have VC money and stuff like that like the principles are still the same yeah exactly it was gonna say like good marketing is good marketing who cares how it's funded 1900 ads yeah for a freaking lens of ads and they're and they're got like they are going much heavier on meta than most you know like for their good marketing process so they're going very heavy on that uh tons of content so like tons of weightlifting whether using tribe or side shift or something like that wow the volume is mental man like look at tons of volume and I want to see like the ads of I think the thing that's important in any vertical is just like what are your messaging funnels you know yes you need your formats but like what are your messaging funnels and don't talk about the product but figure out who who are the avatars you know and like what are the funnels behind that but yeah good amount of that they can even comment they got like comment funnels like comment this is probably like a many chat flow interesting oh yeah I would imagine their their conversion event as an app install would be my guess yep yep I think this is the thing to call out right is like if you're in consumer don't just study like brands in your space so I find even that happens a lot it's like hey I'm in supplements I'm gonna just study supplements and supplement funnels and flow like no like go look at how all you should be studying all marketing doesn't matter what they're selling like if they're selling to an individual which I mean we're all selling individuals even if the business is the buyer it's worth just studying those funnels because like you're gonna learn a ton from the breath yeah I completely agree so I would say my biggest feedback is like I want to get a little tighter with like what are the funnels and messaging like I like you know we're talking even on the boot schools page and we're like oh these could be the different ones and you could see it on some of the other ones we're looking at like it's hard to tell and I think you should be able to tell and obviously wings could do a way better job of this I think you should be able to tell like what is the messaging just by looking at like a quick static or totally at like you know and so you can't really tell it's a little too much about the product and then I think it's all going to like homepage maybe it's because it's going to like app install yeah that's an interesting one like I'd love to see like a like a listicle be done for a SaaS like I never see that interesting no you're right that's sort of we're like in consumer we have we have to pull all these damn levers because we have no margins maybe these guys can just do whatever the hell they want I don't know that's why yes I like the surprise dude uh very cool all right let's let's wrap it up um I think that's the pod I think if you've enjoyed this you like the deep dives you're that much of a nerd uh you know like and subscribe we're gonna try to do more of this on the build series which is what you're listening to or watching right now and just like go behind the scenes of what it is to like build companies like that is Cody like for me that is just how I do it I just look at ad libraries and I go through and I click through and I'm just like kind of studying not for any other reason I'm just trying to pick up all the new ones those little details and that was like six pretty good brands with one surprise lots to learn from all six I think and then you want to wrap on before we yeah we finish yeah that was a fun one for me yeah that was good I like the nerdy stuff all right that's the pot let's get out of here