Speaker 1What is up? Welcome back to the James Kennedy podcast. Man, you know what? It actually feels weird saying that because I haven't said it in a few weeks. But look, I am back with a vengeance. The hiatus is over. We had a good run for the first year or two. It was every week just knocking him out. And then obviously life caught up. I had a book to write and all that jazz. And I had to park this bad boy up. But we are back, baby. And I've got some insane guests coming your way really, really shortly. Also, this podcast will soon be going to video. That's right, man. We're switching gears for 2024. We are going video on this thing. So watch this space because any episode now we will be lifting off in a video. But what have I been up to? I hear you scream. Nothing much other than book writing. Still, still. Oh, my God. So, right. I wrote Noise Damage in like two months and a bit. You know, it was about two months pretty much. And then a little bit of editing after. But that book flew out of me. This book that I'm writing now, well, it was a bit different. I mean, I smashed like about four or five chapters out in 2021. Not long after Noise Damage went to number one, I got a book agent and all that sort of stuff. And I immediately set to work on book number two, you know, to keep the momentum going on that front. Because Noise Damage had more like success and traction than I ever imagined. Just the fact it got published was beyond my wildest dreams, to be honest. I didn't think anybody was ever going to read the damn thing. So, yeah. So, I started immediately setting to work on book number two. And like I say, smashed out a few chapters right off the heels of Noise Damage coming out in 2021, early 2021. And then obviously life got in the way, you know, in not many good ways, in all honesty, for the next like year and a half, which I've spoken about before. So, we don't need to get into that now. But then I had like a publishing deadline of the end of 2023 to get this thing finished by. And I was ill for like most of last year, as you know. So, I had to, like, squeeze the rest of this book in then into like the final few months of 2023. But I'm a different man now to what I was when I started writing this thing. And it's just a weird, a weird experience picking up a book that you started like over a year before, before like life went crazy on you. And then just picking it up and carrying on as normal. I mean, that's just a fucking weird way to write a book. So, the lesson I've learned is that next time I write a book, I will be smashing it out in two or three months. Like I do with my albums. Because I'm realizing that that's how I work. The last three or four albums I've done have all been completely written, recorded, mixed, mastered, everything ready to go within two or three months. That's going from having no songs, no words, no riffs, no nothing, to having a complete album master disc on your desk, two to three months. That's how I've written Make Anger Great Again, Home, Kashira Circle was written like that. That's my rhythm. So, I feel like I can be very intense about something for a few months. And if it drifts on longer than that, then I just lose interest in the thing. So, this book has been a struggle because there was that year and a half wedge between starting the thing excitedly and then coming back to it, kind of panic and thinking, fuck, I got to finish this thing in like three months or something. So, I would love to write more books. This one's been a struggle because of, yeah, like everything I've been through this past two years, like life stuff has been really, really heavy going, you know. And then obviously, you know, rushing to finish the thing, which was just pressure rather than enjoyment. So, this one's been an interesting one. I'm really proud of how it's turned out. I can't wait for you guys to read it and share it with you all. But I do want to write more books. But yeah, next time I do it, I will be like going off the radar for about two or three months, smashing the thing out in a blizzard of creative focus. And then I'll be getting back on with my life because this one's been a struggle. But that said, The Mother is done. It'll be going off to the publishers now in the next two weeks when I give it one little final wax on and wax off. And then the jobs are good. So, I'll have all my time back to focus on the podcast and James Kennedy and the underdogs who've got loads and loads of stuff coming up this year. New material, lots of gigs and videos and lots and lots more. Watch this space. But the podcast is back. And I just can't wait to jump back into these conversations with super awesome minds and super talented people. I love having these conversations. I hope you enjoy listening to them as well. So, I'm excited to be back in the podcast seat. Now, speaking of super awesome and talented people, I've got one very such specimen for you today. Joining us from Nashville, the insanely talented, annoyingly so, annoyingly multi-talented, I would say, musician, singer, songwriter, and visual artist as well, Hannah Wicklund, whose brand new album, The Prize, is out this very Friday the 12th, available to pre-order now. I've had a sneak preview of it and it is absolutely fucking brilliant. As was her previous EP, Hell in the so talented, but she has been grinding this circuit now for years and years and years. She's been doing it the old punk rock way in a transit van going back and forth across America, paying her dues, earning her stripes, and man, she is flying right now. She is crushing it. And rightfully so. It's a beautiful thing to watch. And she joins us here today to talk about the music industry, her amazing career, a new album, art, the creative process, everything that's coming up, and loads more. So, I hope you enjoy this conversation. I'll be dropping a link to Hannah's new album and Spotify page. We can hear her previous releases as well in the show notes. Please check it out. Turn it up loud and you can thank me later. Okay, let's get down to business and welcome on to the show from Nashville, the incredible, the awesome, the lovely, the talented, the brilliant, Hannah Wicklund. Hannah, how you doing, man? I am wonderful. How are you? I'm good, thank you, man. I must say I am loving that setting that the listeners can't see right now, but there is a vast discrepancy in our comfort levels right now. Hannah is sitting in what looks like a lovely, sunny Nashville afternoon. Very creative and chill. You've got plants and guitars everywhere and art and stuff. And yeah, it looks very, very cool and cozy there, man. Whereas I'm freezing my ass off in a podcast studio in South Wales where it's currently raining and gray and sleety and cold and drab. So, I'm a little bit envious. A little bit different. Well, I was recently in,
Speaker 2I was in the UK and while it is kind of gloomy and kind of rainy, over there right now, it is still so beautiful. So, I feel for you, but I also, I really love spending time over there. So, I don't feel too bad for you.
Speaker 1Great recovery, man. I love that balance there. Yeah, well, you're actually coming back over here, aren't you? Next jerk. And yeah, and I noticed that you're playing my hometown favorite venue of The Globe in Cardiff, where I actually played with my own band just a few months back. So, we're going to get into all that stuff and let everybody know what you've got coming up. But to start with, could you give us, the brief introduction to Hannah Wicklund, who you are, where you're from, your journey,
Speaker 2how you got here, and what's going on? Well, let's see. I'm born and raised on a small island called Hilton Head Island off the coast of South Carolina. And I was born into a massively creative family. My mom's an artist and my dad, a musician, not by trade. He's a painting contractor. He paints people's houses. But he's really good at it. But he was a drummer for the first homegrown rock band on Hilton Head. And they used to play out, they were the band on the island. And so, I have an older brother and an older sister who are both quite creative people as well. And yeah, so I was really fortunate to be really supported at a young age to follow my dreams, whatever they were, and music or otherwise. And I definitely found myself flocking to music. I started playing piano when I was three. And I started playing guitar at eight. And I started my band six months after I started playing guitar. And so, it was a quick decision that I knew I wanted to play rock and roll, be like my older brother and my dad. And Hilton Head was such a place that there was ample opportunity to play and develop my talent when I was young. So, that whole phrase, the 10,000 hours thing, I abide by and believe in. And yeah, by the time I was 16, I graduated high school a couple years early. And I hit the road as a youngin. And I've been, you know, I've been through the ringer when it comes to the music business. I've kind of been in all different types of rooms and meetings and all of that kind of stuff. And I have found myself coming out the other side, self-managing, self-releasing, kind of carving my own path at this point. So, that's kind of the nicely wrapped up version. But yeah.
Speaker 1Love it. Love it. Well, that's the nicely wrapped version. And now we're going to fucking pull it wide open. And dive into the nitty gritty. Because exactly like you said, you know, you've seen this industry now from all sides. You've been in the boardrooms, you've seen highs, you've seen the lows, and you've been kicking it a long time, man. And kicking ass as well. But I don't think people fully appreciate when they look at someone where you're at right now, crushing it, you know, fucking touring half the world next year. You know, you played Wembley last year. You're fucking flying right now, dude. But people don't realize the journey. They see the tippity iceberg. It's that whole thing. You know, they see the tippity iceberg and they don't realize all the shit that you had to go through to get there. there people don't see that stuff so i'd like to dive into some of that stuff if you don't mind because i think it's really healthy for other musicians on their way up to realize what people like yourself have had to go through to get to where you are you know yeah you know i think that
Speaker 2this this business is quite full of uh the smoke and mirrors and i think even when you're being authentic which i've i've just now kind of rounded the corner of um where i'm really ready to discuss the actual business side of what i've been going through because you know when i was 18 um and started taking like really serious big time meetings with people in the industry um you know that perception and what the people that you're meeting with want you to think is like that you can't do it without them and that um you know it's kind of like a it's like once you it's like leveling up it's like yeah everybody wants to manage it like everybody wants to have a team for them everybody wants to be signed to a label right like that's what we're all kind of told is the way to go about things so um you know i've found i've had a lot of like weird weird things happen i've worked with some not so awesome people and my radar has been off before and um you know there's lots of different things that can lead to the ending of a business relationship but i have found a lot of those um and you know i think that coming out the other side and making the decision to um self-manage and to just not even entertain like that's the best part about where i'm at now is that i'm not doing flagrant i'm not taking flagrant meetings i'm not just having coffee with whomever i'm not letting uh all these different people give me their opinion on my music which is something that happens so rampantly from the age of like 18 to 21 is that all these people's opinions were going through my mind and um and there was no boundary around who i was meeting with it was just kind of taking take take any meeting you know take all of them and um i think that now i've got my head screwed on in a different way to where i'm i'm not really phased by the name dropping at this point i'm not really phased by um the dangling carrots so to speak and i'm more moved by action and um follow through and that's what there is very little of in this industry so um yeah so it's so i'm i'm very i you know it kind of it took a second to not feel you know almost embarrassed that i was self-managing and like to to wear it as a badge of honor as opposed to being something that i kind of skirted around because you know the 18 19 year old version of myself um did not expect to be you know self-managing and doing the things that i am doing um you know at this point so it's a little bit of like shaking off my own judgment from when i was young um of myself now and being like no it's actually way cooler and way more rock and roll to decide that um i'm gonna do this the more untraditionalized way which actually if you look at a lot of the most badass women um i think us ladies have had to carve out our own path more often um than not and i think that um you know like annie defranco and joan jett uh those are two women that have you know built their own labels and when they were kind of you know facing adversity and in the business side of things they took matters into their own hands and they were like oh my god i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna and um that's basically what i've done now with getting my you know new label together and i'm working with new partners but i am very much the boss of uh strawberry moon records and uh the boss of hannah wickland so uh it feels good to be in my newly claimed position that's fucking awesome
Speaker 1dude fucking round of applause to you dude because like that is a serious amount of work that's serious commitment and belief in what you do and not letting the experiences of of old sort of trip you up and tarnish your your your belief and your passion and your energy for this thing to just keep on trucking doing your own thing with you behind the wheel that's amazing and look at you go you know i mean like you're soaring harder and higher than ever before man and and it's you're in full control so like i said you should totally and definitely wear that as a badge of honor rather than anything anything else and you're in control you know seriously impressive man super awesome and i noticed that um when i was getting the links and everything for the uh the show notes i noticed the release says that it's out by flat iron records so i'm just assuming then that you're you have a licensing deal with those guys for distribution is that there is that the way you're
Speaker 2doing it yeah so they're they're now kind of like the the big umbrella um and i've basically created an imprint for strawberry moon records underneath them so while strawberry moon records is home to just my music right now i think uh i think hopefully in the future there's a place to add some add some other people to that roster so um so yeah it's it's a it's a developing relationship but uh i feel very fortunate to you know have people believe in not only my music but also believe in me as a business woman um which is the biggest thing that i have found with these new people that i'm working with is that i'm respected on a totally different level and i'm every other person that i've worked with mostly being management um i think that you know i think management is a very fickle thing for artists i think if you find the right one and you find the right person that is a really good flow then that's amazing but i think a lot of times when you're young finding that stuff it's very hard to be respected in the business realm um by those people i think that that's where like the steam rolling comes in and where like the like some of the manipulation and things like that kind of are extra heavy is when people are young and don't know much about the business yet so um so yeah it feels it feels nice to be to be growing my my business side yeah alongside inside that's awesome so okay so you got the label
Speaker 1which is your label so you're in control you've pulled the strings you call the shots but you've got guys to help you put it out that's that's cool um no manager no you must have a booking agent though surely oh i've got the best agents yeah
Speaker 2i'm with i'm with uta um and i've i've been with uh i've been with my agents since pre-covid and um yeah they're they're amazing joel feld and beth morton i've got a us and then a rest of world um so yeah the the agent side is very important i i did book my own shows when i was young um you know like i pretty much took over the like i started playing out shows when i was nine um and started getting paid around that age and uh my dad handled the phone calls up until i was 12 years old and then i took over all of the phone calls for all of the shows i was the person if you wanted to book the stepping stones you had to talk to little hannah um and we were booked we were we were heavily booked for for being any band let alone like you know kid band um and so i've been i really despised that term but uh but yeah and then so i was i was kind of naturally doing everything i was running our website and running our socials and doing all that and going to school um and so then when i graduated at 16 i uh part of me graduating so early was because i knew knew i wanted to go on the road i already knew what my life path um was going to be you know grand scheme and so i pretty much at at 16 me and my drummer went out on a uh on like a little road trip for like two and a half weeks around the southeast and northeast and i went into every single club every single venue that i could find that had you know that i could find on google and i went in there with a cd and asked them to pass it along to whoever booked the the venue um i was lucky enough to meet a couple of the people that booked the shows and so actually the the venue that we're playing and the show that we're playing in atlanta on my hell in the hallway tour next year um the promoter joel grobe i've known for 10 years because i was 16 and went into the hard rock cafe and he was working i gave him a cd and he's the person that gave me my first ever ticketed legitimate rock and roll show um when i was like 17 or 18 we played in atlanta but uh up until that point though i was like emailing oh god i would email like a hundred different places to get a response from five maybe and then we'd probably land like one show um and it was extra hard getting people to book a 16 and 18 year old filled band but i did it and uh and i played my own agent which is what landed me when i was 18 i got my first agent and that was like the first real piece of the puzzle of my like team that i had ever really put into place was an agent um so yeah i i i would never i would never ever ever do that myself again though i love having
Speaker 1having a good agent oh yeah i think that's like um my journey is very similar to yours but you've been kicking ass way more than i i ever did um it was always like a very similar i mean my situation now is the same as yours i run my own label um in fact my whole back catalog has been put out through my my own label i started doing that about 10 years ago i think because i was just fed up of getting fucked over by people the first deal i had i take them to court because they ran off with all of our money and then the guy went to jail for shooting somebody and all sorts of bullshit so i just set up my own label put out a bunch of albums myself i now i'm i've got my own publishing company which is sub published by cobalt so i do a similar umbrella sort of deal to what you've got going on as well um and management yeah i've always self-managed i've had managers and again one of them ended up with a court case um the other one was just disappeared off the face of the earth i'm sure you've experienced some of these uh lovely characters yourself but a booking agent you've got a like if they are like essential you've got to have a good booking agent that's going to book you to the right scale for where you are and it sounds like
Speaker 2you've got the right package there man you know i feel very grateful i have finally uh in the last six months really felt very secure when it comes to my career which i've never felt since i you know since i was like 15 um and that wasn't really quite a career that was me playing gigs you know like so in terms of in terms of where i'm at now i certainly feel like i have landed um at the right formula for myself right now and and who knows maybe i'll have maybe i'll hand over like management at some point and but i'm not really i don't really think that's i don't really think that's the way things are gonna go i think i just need a good you know we call it you know the day-to-day manager like basically you know somebody to just you know like you know like you keep all the ducks in a row and make sure that your schedule is set and you know cross your t's and dot your i's that kind of person is is very important and i'm lucky to have that um but it's very i think that whole saying too many cooks in the kitchen is really true and especially if it sounds like you're the same kind of artist as i am which is that i've i've got a very solid view of what i want my career to be and for me my career includes not just music i've also got the art side of my career which now i've been able to tie into my music with my new record the prize um but i also have you know i have other aspirations when i was a child i did musical theater and i've you know been i've had some people reach out to me about auditioning for you know tv film and so i've actually started like you know seeking out some auditions too and and kind of you know i've been able to tie into my music with my new record the prize um but i also have you know i've been able to tie into my music with my new record the prize um but i also have reconnecting with that side which who knows that's a mix that's like a toss-up of whether you'll actually ever land anything but um but yeah i mean i think it's i think it's really helpful if you're a very aspirational person to you know have a good sense of direction on your on your own first so even if you do you are somebody who wants a manager you do end up adding that person in you know exactly what you want because that was what my biggest mistake was with my first work and i think that's what i've been able to do is i've been able to do that uh my first manager for sure is that i didn't really have a strong sense of exactly where i wanted to go next and um that meant i went nowhere with the person that i was so yeah it's ironic and in hindsight in my career the the times i've had the least going on and when i've been the least
Speaker 1busy has been when i've had a manager so that's crazy man and i hear that so much from fellow artists um i mean this conversation has already taken a massive left turn from where i was initially going to take it we are going to talk about the album i promise we are going to talk about the tour and the artwork and all that sort of stuff but i'm really interested i'm interested in where this is going so i think this is super useful for other people to hear especially up and coming musicians because people don't have any idea what it takes to just fucking last two minutes in this game and i think especially in the age of social media like musicians are people were thinking oh they're they're fucking doing this and they're doing that why can't i catch a break i'm working hard i'm talented and they and they think that it's just them that's having those struggles in those moments but you've been through them and now you're fucking slaying it you know higher and better and harder than ever before so i think you're a great example of hope to many musicians who are going through the experiences that you had early on in your career that like hey look i've been through that it wasn't the end for me i learned from it you know i got my my lessons and my scars and you know and here i am now fucking smashing my own path you know what i mean so i'd love to just talk a bit more about those early experiences if you don't mind because i know for so many people you know they feel like their career trajectory kind of especially when you start getting these guys on board at the early stages it kind of goes up and it goes up and it goes up and then all of a sudden it kind of plateaus out and then either falls through the floor and never recovers again or it just kind of stays where it is and fizzles out so i'm interested in how you went through all that and then came out swinging as you are now you know it's really hard for me
Speaker 2to think of my story in that like linear or like it you know went up and then plateaued because in my mind it's just been a complete roller coaster the entire time like um you know and i could take you through step by step exactly what kind of happened but the the quick version um and the more you know the the the less uh less painful version is you know i had when i was 18 i started working with a booking agent i was meeting with um scooter braun was technically my first ever my very first ever meeting ever like three days after i turned 18 he flew me out to la offered me an artist development deal um i was not ready to be hannah wickland at that point i had my band the stepping stones and um and i basically just never called him again um and i kept going down you know my work harder uh not smarter path in some ways um and i got my first agent like a month or two after that meeting and that agent um you know he was very he he worked really hard for me um but he had outside aspirations of doing more than just being my agent um i think that he was basically like managing me um without it being that blunt and he was basically like in my mind the way i see things is kind of like fended off managers and kind of dissuaded me from pursuing and any management for about two years um and that whole time kind of had me i was 18 19 and i was opening up for like marshall tucker and the outlaws and um kansas and josh jefferson airplane and like all of these awesome acts that i listened to growing up and i covered some of and i loved so at 18 19 that my eyes were like wide open and like oh my god this is so but i woke up you know a year and a half two years later and like i had literally not met one artist my own age i hadn't done any touring with any current artists i had almost become this like like relic act opener like that was almost like a relic act opener like that was almost like a like and and we were building me as a headliner too but i just kind of got stuck in this like classic rock loop and um and then it was you know then i got my my first manager who came on board and kind of saw and there were some other weird things that were kind of going on inside of like the agent relationship and so very quickly um that manager got rid of the agent and kind of opened my eyes to hey the last like two and a half years this is what's been actually kind of going on and then i was able to then and then all of a sudden my perspective went through a huge huge shift where i saw the industry in a totally different light um and you know that was kind of the first that was kind of the first scar um and then since then there there have been many more but i would just say i would just say that the path has been very up and down and um i've got lots lots and lots of stories to share and and a good transition to bring us into talking and about my tour is the tour that i'm doing is called hell in the hallway and it is the first track off of my new record which i wrote uh i wrote hell in the hallway back in was it 2018 2019 i believe i wrote it in 2019 january of 2019 um a few days after i fired my first manager um and the song the rattlesnake rattlesnake who do you speak of the snake is very much um you know representative of those music business men love it um and so yeah i like my guitar maker anderson anderson guitars there's a woman uh who works there rachel and i talked to her on the phone and i told her you know i needed something or whatever and i called and she's like oh thank god he was such an asshole when i told her that i wasn't working with that manager anymore and i was like well thanks for telling me you know but Um, everybody tells you what they think of who you're working with afterwards. Yeah, exactly. And you're like, guys, tell me this. It's like, it's like your friend dating some really shitty dude. And then you finally, oh, thank God. And you're like, wait, tell me. But anyways, she, she told me she was like, you know, cause I was really unsure of what was going on in my career. Cause now I didn't have an agent cause he had fired my agent and I didn't have a manager and I just dropped Hannah Wicklin and the stepping stones. And so bomb through the breeze was getting placed like crazy. And all of a sudden I didn't have a tour. I didn't have a team. It was, you know, and so my, my lovely, uh, my lovely lady, Rachel at Anderson says, well, you know, my mom always used to say when one door closes, another one opens, but there's always hell in the hallway. And I go, can I use that for a song? She said, yes, as long as you say, thank you. No, just, just thank my mom. So thank you. Rachel's mom. And, uh, that's awesome. Yeah. So, so the prize is really like that reference. It's pretty much the summation of the 19 to 21 year old version of me and all of like the things that I went through. And it's, it's a portrayal of not only, you know, relationship relationships ending, it's a portrayal of music business relationships or just business relationships expiring and, and, you know, kind of what comes with that. Um, and then it's also, you know, it touches on, you know, the relationship, you have with yourself or the relationship I had with myself, um, in the title track, the prize. So, so yeah, there's, there's our, our, our good little, uh, bridge interlude into, uh, the other stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1Love it. I love that segue as well. Very professionally done, dude. You've clearly done this before. Um, because yeah, let's talk about the new record. I want to give a shout out first to hell in the hallway, which you just mentioned, because I absolutely love that EP. It's fucking brilliant, dude. And I think it sets the listener up perfectly for the new record, the price, because for the tracks from the EP are on the album and the whole album as an entirety is just fucking genius. Honestly, it's all killer, no filler, you know, and it's got, it's got everything on there, man. It's got the rock and roll guitar. It's got your voice. It's got the songwriting. It's got great musicianship. It's got, it's got a great vibe. It's got emotion. It's, it's the whole fucking ride, man. And I just love it. And I wanted to talk to you much in your sound. There's so many different sounds and influences I can hear, but I wanted to know, I wanted to ask you directly, you know, who are your influences? You know, are you, are you kind of aware of who they are? Because I know when you've been doing this a while, like we have, you know, and you're caught up in the middle of the process, you're oftentimes not aware, but who would you say your sort of direct, um, inspirations and influences in your sound?
Speaker 2Hmm. You know, I've never really, I've never really thought about it. Um, as like, listening to my music and trying to hear what I hear, um, which I think is more of what you're asking, which I've, I've never done. Um, so maybe I'll try that. I'll try listening and thinking about what I hear, but I know just based on me as a human, um, the stuff that inspires me is, uh, I mean, it's, it's a quite broad range. Cause I've, I always consider myself a terrible music fan because I don't, I don't necessarily like nosedive into any, anybody and like growing up as a guitar player, like loved Jimi Hendrix, but I did not go and watch a million Jimi Hendrix YouTube videos. And I didn't listen to Jimi Hendrix's full catalog. So, um, I was influenced heavily by a lot of people. Um, and I'm more of like a sponge. Like I having my older brother and my older sister and my dad who all love music. Um, you know, I, I like being a fly on the wall and having everybody else, put on the music and just kind of absorbing it. So I'd say like my range of inspiration, especially now that I like really think about it. Cause when I was younger, 18, 19 doing interviews, I was saying Jimi Hendrix and Lindsay Buckingham. I was just like in this one lane, but, um, Etta James, Sheryl Crow, uh, Jeff Buckley, Tom Petty, um, Neil Young, uh, you know, Stevie, Nick Sweetwood, Mac, um, a lot of the classic rock stuff touched, you know, touched my brain growing up. So that's the obvious stuff. But, um, when it comes to like newfound inspiration and, and one of the big ones for the prize, ironically, you know, I finished writing this whole record in 2019. Um, and in 2000, I guess it was 2020. I heard Fiona, Apple's fetch the bolt cutters record, which my brother was the one that was like, you should listen to this. And I fell in love with that record. I think that was like the, the most exciting album I had heard in my adulthood because, um, all of a sudden, like these songs were just so like, yes, they're songs. And once you listen to them many times, I like hear them as like songs, but they were just, they felt really abstract to me. And I really enjoyed the way it was recorded. And, um, so. Fetch the bolt cutters was actually the record that like made me get the ball rolling on starting the recording of the prize because it was, you know, I think she had like self-produced or co-produced. And I think she did a lot of that record, like in her house, which is where you can like hear her dogs barking and you actually, my dogs are on hell in the hallway too. So I took that little nod, but, um, but yeah, so it's, it's quite a wide range of stuff, but I can hear Jeff,
Speaker 1luckily for definite. Um, I was, I was hearing as well, some Anna Calvi. I was hearing some nothing but thieves, a little bit hailstorm. I mean, you had not mentioned any of those bands, but it was
Speaker 2interesting. People here in it, in it, you know? Yeah. That's so interesting. I mean, I I'm known of hailstorm and I think that gosh, Lizzie Hale is such a bad-ass. Um, I think that that music is a little bit more on like the rock side of things, which I, I very intentionally call myself rock and roll. Cause I think that rock is, is too harsh of a category from, for me to live in. But like Tom Petty, like I considered Tom Petty to be the ultimate like rock and roll, you know, kind of artist where he's writing songs, but there's still guitar solos and it's, you know, the lyrics mean
Speaker 1in something. And, um, yeah, well, Tom Petty is a bad-ass isn't he? And Fiona Rappel as well. I think that's, that's the beautiful thing about music is that like everyone can hear something different in it, can't they? I mean, you, you make what you make and it comes from where it comes from within you. And then as soon as you put it out to the world, everyone kind of has their own interpretation of it. It kind of becomes their song then. And it can be, it becomes their baby then, you know? And I think that's the beautiful thing about it. And I wanted to talk to them. You've already mentioned like, um, you know, some of how you recorded the record, you know, talk about having your dogs and everything in the background. I'd love to delve more into that, into the, into the process then of how you put the, record together, the writing, um, the recording process. What, what, what was the, um, what was
Speaker 2the journey? Well, I, uh, I pretty much started writing this record in my parents' house. Um, I was, I was transient for about three years where I was just kind of like, I lived in LA for a while, but all of my stuff was in a storage unit in Nashville for a period of time. And so I had just gotten done with like a lot, like a massive, like seven, eight months of nonstop touring. And I went back to my parents' house and, um, I was there for like a month. And I, that was where like a lot of the foundation of like, I'd say more than half the record was kind of started. And, um, and then I went to a little cabin that, um, my grandparents had built up in the Poconos, um, which it was the last time I got to be there. Cause we sold it like, and I was so heartbroken. I, I was really hoping to, to be able to like go up there with my kids one day, you know, but. Um, but I ended up finishing a lot of most of the album, um, um, in that little cabin, I just kind of went there and, and didn't see anybody and just hold up for, for a while. Um, but then I think, yeah, I went back out to LA for a little bit and, and that was where, um, hell in the hallway was a co-write with Stevie. I, I, I, I, I, I need to, I really know how to say his last name, but, um, he's the guitar player for 30 seconds to Mars. And so we did, we did that co-write and, um, and hell in the hallway was, you know, it was one of the more, like in my mind, like a little bit more of like an obvious single. And so I think once that song was written, I feel like the, a lot of the record had taken shape, but two of the songs that I, that I really loved, um, witness, I had started writing at my parents. And so that song was kind of marinating for a while, but I actually went on this, um, this cruise, this, uh, what was it? The Chris Jericho wrestling cruise. Okay. Um, yeah, I promise this will come full circle. It's really weird right now, but I was in January of 2019. I did a thing called, uh, the rock boat and it's like, you know, like a music festival on a cruise ship and the, the promoters, um, did this thing where they would get, uh, every year they would get a couple of the right writers from some of the bands playing on the rock boat together on a different cruise, like four or five months earlier to write and record an album together. So people you'd never met, you go and you write and record an album in a makeshift studio on a cruise ship in three days. And it just was too weird and wacky of an opportunity to not say yes to. So I went on and it was the first ever wrestling cruise. So everybody walking around the boat was like, making history, making history. And they had turned the swimming pool on the top floor of the cruise ship into a ring. And all of our meals and everything that we ate were with all of the wrestlers. So I befriended all of these. Really, you know, like intense, the nicest, sweetest guys and gals. And, but basically, we just spent the days writing and recording. And one of the songs that I wrote with a really, really awesome dude named Nick Talbot of the Talbot Brothers, we co-wrote the song Lost Love together on the Chris Jericho cruise ship. And it was like this, this hilarious, just like super top, it was like a top secret project we were doing. So like nobody else on the boat knew what we were doing other than like the 15 of us that were involved. And it was just so much fun. So yeah, that's like a fun little tidbit about the writing part of the prize. But
Speaker 1I would never have thought that that song was written on a wrestling cruise ship.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly. It was, it was a very, I'll just say hilarious. It was a very hilarious moment in my life. And I came away having a deep appreciation for wrestling with those guys. What they do is pretty cool. They're putting on a show and very dramatic, very coordinated. But yeah, that was fun. And they had this really cool instrument. Siegel, the company makes a little like troubadourian style, instrument called the Merlin, basically a dulcimer. And, and I picked it up and Lost Love, we wrote it within like, 45 minutes or an hour, because I, the very first time I played that instrument, I started playing what turned into the Lost Love riff that you kind of hear. So there's like that kind of weird acoustic instrument in there. And, and that's what it was. So
Speaker 1that's awesome. Yeah, I love it when that happens. But is that something that you do as a songwriting trick consciously? Because I know as someone who's been playing guitar now for like, too many decades, like when I when I put my hand on the neck, like my fingers kind of go to familiar places, and I have to consciously kind of do shit to stop falling into old habits. So like playing an instrument that you know nothing about, really, it's kind of like unexplored foreign territory can often lead to coming up with new and interesting shit, because you're not following that muscle memory. Is that something that you do as a songwriter? Or was it just like a happy accident on that one time that kind of led to that the absolute gold of that song?
Speaker 2I think moving, I think moving through my life as a songwriter, it's a trick that I'm going to take advantage of more often, which is trying to write and challenging myself to write on different instruments outside of just piano and guitar. But I will say I just bought here, I'll show you, no, I know this is a podcast, but um, I just bought this,
Speaker 1I can see it. That's all that matters.
Speaker 21920s parlor guitar. Wow. It's, it's by Herwin. No, it was for Herwin. I'm still getting the story on it. But um, basically, it's like a gypsy guitar. And so and there's like one small like difference that I noticed that has made an effect on my playing, which is that it's instead of the instead of the ninth fret being marked, the 10th fret is marked.
Speaker 3Huh?
Speaker 2So I haven't, I haven't dropped D and and I'm just kind of, of course, yeah, you gotta have one. But it's, it's funny how just having like the markings be a little bit different. Makes you play guitar a little bit different. So
Speaker 1Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100%. Like I started experimenting for a while with the one of the Jimmy Page tunings. And I brought a bunch of songs because I just didn't know what the hell I was playing. You know, you play standard chords, and it sounds like complete shit. You have to like just like follow your ear more than following your muscle memory, you know? So yeah, I definitely think experiment with tunings is is a useful thing for me as a guitar player anyway. And, and drop D, you know, any any excuse to tune down to drop D is a good is a good one. So that guitar looks fucking sick, man. Well, we got to move on to talking about the tour because this is a big one, dude. Like you're pretty much touring. the entire of 2024. You know, you're doing the whole of the US pretty much between February and April. And then you come into the UK and even Europe for some more dates as well. As I mentioned earlier, you're playing one of my favorite local venues just around the corner from me from where I live. The Globe in Cardiff, where I played with my own band just a few months ago. It's a great venue. So I'll come along to that one. But yeah, I mean, like this is a colossal tour, dude. I mean,
Speaker 2you excited? Yeah, it's a it's a lengthy one, but it is time I am overdue. For a nice, healthy headline tour. So it's a lot of dates. But I it's I think I've played. I'm pretty sure I played with, with the exception of maybe a few of those UK dates, all of these places before. So it's essentially me like making a return and, and saying hello and introducing, you know, everybody that I've seen and met throughout the years to the world of the prize. And I think it's going to be the most fulfilling tour that I've ever done. Because up to this point, I've, you know, I've done a lot of touring, a lot of touring. But this tour has a totally different purpose. You know, of course, I am promoting the prize. But this is also really like, the full circle moment of me embracing that, you know, my world and my career is more than just music. And so, you know, I'm gonna have special, I'm bringing the art into the show and trying to do a few things to, to honor the paintings and the design and all of that kind of stuff that I've been doing over this time as well. So, so it's gonna be cool. It's gonna be a neat culmination of all of my shit. Yeah.
Speaker 1100% man. I was gonna talk about the art book as well, because that's badass as well. This is why I said at the intro, you're like annoyingly multi talented. So much of a struggle to be good at one thing. And you're good at like five at the same time, you know, it's a pain in the ass. But what's your touring package like? Because as an artist that's essentially independent, right, you're self managing, I guess you're doing your own budgeting and stuff like that. How do you tour on a scale like that? Let's just focus on the on the US. I mean, that's a massive landmass. Are you doing transit van sharing the driving guys in the back sort of thing? Or have you figured out a way to make this doable at an independent level?
Speaker 2No, I am I am holding strong in my, my sprinter van, I have been touring out of my, at least it's a Mercedes. But I have been touring out of the same van since I was 18. Wow. Yeah. So this van has been very good to me has taken me across this country and through Canada, many times. But we are in a van. I'm really hoping that we don't have to bring a trailer next year. To be honest, I think we're going to be able to make it all fit. But yeah, we'll have a tour manager and me and the guys and the band and then I'm trying to work it out. Right now. I think the next key player to add into my touring regime would be a killer front of house guy. So or girl, so I am. I'm not positive yet. But it sure would be nice to have for this tour. So we'll see.
Speaker 1You're clearly not someone that suffers obstacles for too long, dude. So I'm sure you're gonna have that killer front of house dude before too long. And it's interesting. I love the fact that you you've done everything you've done in one van. I mean, I need to know where you bought that van for a start because mine fucking used to break down every two minutes. But I have a load of podcasts and they all talk about, you know, the road to success and the best way to set yourself up for long term success and everything like that. And the one thing they all say, and they all say the same thing is, get in a van, get in a car and just get out there, play some fucking shows, knock some fucking doors, make some calls, turn up, kick some asses. You know, you start playing at one person, then you then you play to 10 people and you just keep on fucking doing it. And you're you are you are proof you are proof that what they're saying is the tried and tested, way that this works. This is the rock and roll model. This is the DIY rock and roll model, you get in a fucking van, and you just turn up and play some shows, you know, and you are the living proof that that model still after all this time in the digital era, when things are so different now is still
Speaker 2the way to get it done. And in the same van. Yeah, you know, it's it is that that saying, if you want something done, right, do it yourself, is making more and more sense to me as I get older. And I think that, yeah, I mean, you that is pretty much when people ask me for advice or you know, yeah, or ask me for advice, I pretty much say a very similar thing, which is to just get out there to say yeah, at the beginning, say yes, like at the beginning, you have to learn your you got, you're gonna have to learn things the hard way, you're gonna have to learn what you do want to do what you don't want to do. But the only way by really learning is doing it. So, yeah, and I'd say relationships, you know, like, like, be nice. And say hello, and talk to people. And, you know, one of the one of the things that has saved me throughout this process is, you know, when you work with the manager, you work with a different agent, and you work with different people, you know, you're kind of getting introduced to their world. And it's business, everybody knows, you know, you're not necessarily going to stick with the same people forever. But, you know, like, like, staying in touch with people that you meet along the way, like, I'm a very, I'm a big fan of staying in touch with people with, you know, just calling just to see how people are doing, you know, like working on the relationship side, because it's a mutually beneficial thing to be thought of, you know, to think of other people to be thought of. And so yeah, so so also just, just try and try and be as gregarious as you can, I'd say too.
Speaker 1Well, people just need to follow your example, man, because yeah, you are doing it, bro. And like, you know, long may you continue to do so as well. I'm going to enjoy watching the rest of your journey, because I think you've set yourself up for success. Just, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You got a good thing going. Please don't let any more douchebags into the mix. I think you're just going to keep on flying.
Speaker 2No more douchebags. Amen. I'm getting that out of bumper sticker.
Speaker 1I think you're going to be all right, man. Well, we got to talk about the artwork as well, because you, as you mentioned earlier, you were a painter as well. So you actually painted the amazing artwork that people can see on the cover of the prize. That's you, right?
Speaker 2Yeah, that's all me. I, I, one of the, one of the beautiful things in a parallel universe, this record would have been released early last year. So it'll be almost two years behind where I had initially planned for and imagined the prize dropping, which, believe it or not, was extremely painful, this process of getting this record out. And so the art was really born out of a place of me not wanting to give up on this music yet, because I just was having a really tough time getting this music released and finding a home for this record, which is why me building my label was exciting, but also extremely necessary. And so, you know, by having my hands tied, again, we got all those men in suits, you know, we got all those, those suits to thank for me, for my shit kind of stagnating there for a while. But if it hadn't, and if I hadn't had my hands tied and I wasn't able to tour, or I was able to tour there for a year, I literally wasn't able to tour for a period of time. I wouldn't have done all this art. And I basically evolved this world and built this visual side around these songs to further prove, maybe even just to myself, like how much they mean to me and how important this music is to me. And so when nobody was believing in it, I doubled down and decided to not only write the music, but do a massive art project to go along with it. And it also, like, that's what kept me sane. And that's what kept me, you know, focused and on track, because I, I could not write music, I could not write another song until I knew how this music was being released. So instead of having my creativity flow through my music for about two years, it's been flowing through my art instead. So I'm very grateful to have my paintings and to have my, my art as a very necessary release.
Speaker 1Well, I think all of this kind of says a lot about you as a person, your character, and your, your hustle and your work ethic and your survivor spirit, because for many people having been through what you'd been through early on in your career, and by the signs of it, you know, some of the hurdles with this record as well, that would have been the end for them, you know, would have been too much, it would have been too, too much to overcome, it would have been too painful a setback, and they would have just given up, it would just, that would have been the end of it. But that says a lot about you as a person, that you found strength and lessons in all of these things in order to make it work. And I think that's, I think that's, I think that's something that's really important to make you stronger moving forward, whether it's setting up your own label, or this record taken longer than you'd hoped led to you then pursuing visual art and painting, which is now a new, a new thing to add to your long list of annoying talents.
Speaker 2Annoying is definitely a word that can be used about me sometimes. But no, I appreciate those, those kind words. And, you know, I really hope that, I really hope that this record can be an, inspiration to other people who might not, who might not necessarily have that perseverance in themselves to, to maybe be able to look to this story and look to this record. And if, if they enjoy this record, and if they like the music of this record, you know, having them know that just getting it out to the world was the fight of my life, basically. You know, up to
Speaker 1Can we talk about that for a second? Well, you know, what, for a few minutes, what were the, what were the obstacles?
Speaker 2You know, basically, I, I plan on telling this story in a very detailed, thought out manner at some point. I'm not quite there yet. I'm still in, I'm still in, I'm still in the sorting it out without, without being
Speaker 1No, that's cool. I get it. I hear you want to, you want to work on your diplomatic version before you start saying anything.
Speaker 2Yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you. I am working on my diplomatic version of this. Of this part of my life. And I, I'm not quite prepared yet. And that's, that's part of healing is knowing when you are not ready to talk about something yet.
Speaker 1That's a mistake I make all too often, man. I'm the worst for it. I never learned. I just fucking open my mouth and out it comes. And I just put my foot in my mouth one more time and I've ended up in some country somewhere. I do it all the time. And I never learned. So, you know, wise thinking.
Speaker 2Me too. That's why I'm, that's why I've learned. And especially with this, with this story. It's a delicate one. But the gist is the gist is just that a lot of promises were made and I had some very sexist bullshit and some really bizarre annoying shit happen when it comes to getting this record out. And yeah, but here I am. It's about to be out. And all of that happened. For a reason, which I'm very, very, very comfortable saying that now, I think a year ago, I was not in a not in a place where I would say like, this is happening for a reason. Even though the whole time I knew, you know, but like, until you've seen the light. But from where I'm at now, I am as annoying as it is to say I am still I'm grateful for the for the pushback that I had on getting the prize out there. Because like, I said, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have done all of the art and I wouldn't have doubled down and I wouldn't have strawberry moon records right now. I wouldn't have a lot of things. I'm very proud of in this moment. So it all works out.
Speaker 1A hundred percent. Well, amen to that, man. Yeah. And I totally echo everything you said. And I hope that we'll get that story at some point, because I'm going to be looking out for the diplomatic version.
Speaker 2Well, it'll be coming in the book. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1Do it. It worked out okay for me, man. Just don't name everybody by name. Like I did make that mistake. Right. We got to talk about the prize because it is coming out this week on January the 12th. The new album, The Prize by Hannah Wicklund fucking rocks. Take it from me. You need to get yourself a copy. Not only does it sound amazing, it looks amazing as well with hand painted covers courtesy of Hannah herself. It is available to preorder. If you can't wait till Friday, you can get it from hannahwicklund.com right now. I'll put a link in the show notes. It is amazing. It is going to be the record that you need to hear the kickoff 2024 in style. You can also check out Hannah's monstrous life schedule on the website as well. She's going everywhere, literally. So get to a show. She's fucking awesome life. I'm going to be there at the Globe in Cardiff. You can also if you want to stay up with everything, stay up to date with everything that she's doing. You can also follow her on Instagram at Hannah Wicklund. Again, I'll put a link in the show notes. And as always, support independent artists like Hannah by getting out and buying a ticket, buying a record. record and showing support and showing some love. And on that note, Hannah, I want to say thank you so much for coming. on chatting with me today it's been fascinating to hear about your story i wish you nothing but success i can't wait to watch everything unfold the rest of this year please don't stop what you're doing i know that you won't best wishes for the album best wishes for the tour and i will see
Speaker 2you in cardiff thank you so much i look forward to meeting you in person be careful what you wish
Speaker 1for dude well thank you so much my best wishes with everything and i yeah i will see you soon
Speaker 2thanks for stopping by thank you so much see you happy new year bye hannah wickland round of
Speaker 1applause for you guys what an awesome dude what an awesome artist what an example to all of us and what a fucking album man i'm not just saying this this isn't some like podcast promo bullshit the album fucking rocks man and i seriously genuinely do love hell in the hallway you need to go and check out that bad boy on spotify right now and then go and buy a copy because hannah is as independent as they come you know she's running her own label self management and she's running her own label self-management and she's running her own self-management and she's running her own label self-management and she's running her own self-management and she's running her own label self-management and she's running her own self-management and she's running her own label self-management and she's running her own self-management and then she's getting in the fucking van and driving all the way across america and back doing the shows so show some love guys you know it costs you less than it costs to buy a fucking round of coffees or something by uh buying her album and directly supporting somebody who is 100 independent and also fucking awesome so what better cause to support than that as i said the first place to stop is either on her instagram page or her website at hannah wickland which is hannah spelled the usual way wickland is w-i-c-k-l-u-n-d that's dot com and it's hannah wickland on um instagram and all of the other socials as well do grab yourself a ticket to one of her concerts because she's fucking killer in concert and i'll be there at the one in cardiff like i said and get on board because this is an artist who i can i just know is going to go from from strength to strength and height to height so so get on board now man for those of you that are already on board the hannah wickland tsunami that's to come in um i hope that was an interesting insight into like some of her process and background and the background to the album and everything like that for those of you that have a not yet discovered the awesomeness that is hannah wickland i hope this was a a worthwhile introduction for you now to go and do a deep dive and as always before i sign off here do not forget to subscribe to the podcast because we are stepping it up a gear this year and it's going to be loads loads more guests confirmed to come on and of course we will be moving over to video so not only do you get my irritating voice you get to look at my irritating mug as well what's not to love see if you listen to this on apple or spotify or cast box or whatever the fuck you listen to it click on the follow click on the subscribe click on the share whatever you got to do it's also available on youtube so go and give us some clicks over there and i will see you next week with another awesome episode you know the drill look after yourself look after each other and i'll see you next week love ya
PodcastTranscript AI