This is exactly right. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guild Season 3 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous situation that destroyed two families. It's a scorched earth war that shows just how far someone will go to get what they want. Cindy said I had to choose between the truth and my family, and I had to choose the truth. According to Season 3, a burden of guilt on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome aboard Season 6 of the Girlfriends, Flight or Fight, which takes place 30,000 feet in the sky. A beautiful woman smiles and hands you a scotch. But you have no idea just how messed up her job actually is. It was the most sexist job I think you could have. Until one day, a group of stewardesses spark a revolution that reshaped America. Listen to the Girlfriends, Flight or Fight, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two Aussie lesbian lovers touched down in 1990s London and become the toast of British high society. One of them touts an exclusive investment opportunity, and soon the money is rolling in. Rich businessmen and England's horse-loving elite fall under their seductive spell. They even meet Queen Elizabeth. But the millionaire duo are concealing a dark past and dastardly intentions. From USG Audio, Glanchard House, and exactly right media, this is Royal Swindle. New episodes drop every Thursday. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardster. That's Karen Kilkerif, and this is what we like to call a 10-year plan. It's almost been 11 years now. We're going to have to stop saying 10. I know. It's pretty great. It's pretty crazy. I feel like the luckiest person in the world is the same. But it is very surreal to be sitting in my house trying to figure out what to watch on TV and this podcast comes up on Netflix. It's so strange. And so we're hopefully the people at home understand. We're just pretending like this is normal and that we do it all the time. Can I tell you something? Speaking of Netflix and this cute outfit I'm wearing. Did you know that when we were on break, I had Molly and Tess make a chart of all the outfits I've worn, so I don't repeat an outfit. Do you want to see it? I can't repeat an outfit. It's an old trauma wound of getting made fun of for wearing hand-me-downs. These pulls. Wow. Isn't it amazing? So thank you Molly and Tess for indulging my trauma and vanity. I think those two things are. Looks like you repeated that. Steve Martin showed a couple of times. So those are mini-sodes. Those are mini-sodes. And so it repeats because it's the same day. Yeah. Why is it really hard to disappoint you? Why don't you get your ass up out of this chair and change outfits on the day? No, I would do that if you hadn't been okay like into it. So if we get you like a curtain like spins around you and when you spin back out, you have a different outfit on it. It's such a relief from like the first time when I was like, do you want to change outfits? And you're like, fuck no. I'm like, really? Great. And now I need to like bedazzle this and make some kind of amazing. Literally when I was leaving my house today, I was like, I had to put on a shirt. I was like, I have to cover my arms. I was saying all these things to myself and I was like, I don't have to do shit. Don't. Well, don't really, it's not like that anymore. No. Well, Netflix has changed it for me a little bit. It's like up the game a little. Well, there's the exposure aspect that we already had, but we weren't really thinking about. Right. But here's my thing. And if you're here for the glamour, don't look on the side of the table. I have a. Or the side. Oh, where are you? Fucking brady. Alpha. Sure, Jan. But my thing was like, I'm trying to provide the Kim deal, Patricia Heismeth angle of, we're busy and we're not doing that thing. I like that. And we represent those girls. I have those days. You can see in the binder. I see that. I've lived that binder. I know. She has those hangovers and that PMS, despite not having her fucking uterus, she still has those. All those hormones are in there. And she puts on Steve Martin t-shirt vintage, but she puts it on. She puts it on. You were going to tell me a story. Last weekend we went to Dollywood. Shut up. Yeah, me and Laura and Nora and my cousin, Stevie and Kim and their daughters, because Anna is the biggest fan of Dolly and she basically has been talking about, would you go with me if I went to Dollywood and we're all like, hell yes, we'll go and we finally did it. Is it like a not-sbury farm or is it like a Disneyland? I would say it's like right in between the two. Okay. So I was like, it's so funny you asked that, because I was anticipating not-sbury farm and maybe down. So everyone knows not-sbury farm is like the Southern California, like mom and pop amusement park. So think of it as like your local amusement park, which is like charming and cute, but a little janky. Right. Well, it's like, because it's farm-based. Yeah. And it's like a state fair. Exactly. They're doing kind of the home town-y vibe where it's like this used to be a berry farm. Right. Like it's maybe a little politically incorrect. Maybe. Yeah. Dollywood is classy, it's homey, the food, every bite of food. Oh my god. Well, every morning we had the breakfast buffet with some of the loveliest weight staff, the people that work there. They're going to say loveliest waffles and I was so beautiful biscuits. I mean, they were though. Everything was cooked perfectly. Nora had all kinds of gluten-free choices. Amazing. And the staff were like, of course, because my cousin Stevie was a waiter and ran restaurants and stuff. She was immediately sassing with the waitresses who are immediately sassing back. Yeah. And it was just the most wholesome, like what we kept talking about walking around in the park. Big roller coasters, fun roller coasters. Yeah. Dolly retrospective where we walk through and spoiler alert if you're going to go and you don't want to ruin it for you, but through the retrospective, you come around a corner. And I don't know if you've ever heard Dolly Parton's song "Code of Many Colors," which is about her mom making her the most beautiful coat in the world and she goes to school and they're like, "Yeah, of course." You come around a corner at the fucking "Code of Many Colors" as behind glass. So if you grew up in like in the 70s, Dolly Parton was everywhere all the time. There was that country music trend that basically happened on AM radio. And she was everywhere. Her and Kenny Rogers and everybody. But the code of many colors was like so down deep that it wasn't even like a thing. I didn't even think about it. But we come around this corner. My sister and I are just like, like immediately start crying. Wow. Your turn. It's the "Code of Many Colors." It's actually the little girl's coat. It's the little girl's coat. And she still have that. It's beautiful. That's the lobby of the resort we stayed at, heart song. The Smoky Mountains, which my sister, I met them, they were there longer than me. My sister said, "The Smoky Mountains are some of the most beautiful nature she's ever seen." I want to go. When the leaves turn. Oh, yeah. It's like every single tree. Okay. Can we ask Dolly if we can do a live show at Dollywood? Do they have an amphitheater? Yes, they do. We do. Dolly's nieces do a live show. Her relatives do a live music review of her music and other hits and they were fucking great. It was like a one o'clock show and I was like, every song I was clapping my ass off because I was like, they're busting their asses. My favorite murder, residency at Dollywood, get out of town, but we need to go where the code of many colors is. I'd wear that. I'd wear that. It would go perfectly with what you have on right now. Do you think I would wear that? But also, isn't it beautiful? It's gorgeous. It's the cutest thing. It doesn't matter because my sister doesn't watch this show. But I was like, I think I'm going to try to sew her a code of many colors for Christmas. Her? Do it. We're just like, here, here. You can have your own. Either that or have someone paint it and do a little painting of it. Hey, murderinos. Do you paint? Oh my god. Like a little, little still life of just the coat would be so cute. I'm coming around a corner and seeing your childhood. Knowing murderinos, like it's the artist who uses cat hair. It's going to make them most beautiful, because that's how talented our fucking listeners are. They're going to use something random, like only using diet coat cans. They're going to make it the most beautiful, because that's their thing, and that's what they do. Nail clippings. Whenever you can come up with, we would love to see it, but highly recommend Dollywood, every employee was lovely. The experience was just like, we were just like, what a great summer trip. Yeah. I love that. It's amazing. But you do this weekend. Oh, I'm not drinking. So, nothing. Oh. Are you white knuckle in it? Over five weeks. Dude. The longest I've gone in decade and more. How do you feel? Good. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Turns out, what are you doing instead? Reading. I was reading. Are you really? Yeah. I went to, I made things go to dinner with me to like, you know, like, this isn't non-ucle-holic dinner. Let's try it, and I was just like the whole time fucking, this isn't fun without a martini. Yeah. But it will be. Right. Well, it's just happened. Yeah. Totally. Have you heard of or read the book yesterday? I told you to read that book. Yeah. Damn it. I told you like two weeks ago to read the book. How good was that?
- That's okay. - Well, I didn't, I haven't started, but everybody on the trip had a copy. - Yeah. - It's so fucking good. - I will always do that to you, 'cause you always tell me to read things, and I just don't. - The audiobook is really good. - Okay. - Yeah. - Oh good. - Check it out. - Yeah, I'm very excited. - Love it. - It's the book of the summer. - Everybody's talking about TradWive regret. - The whole thing of like, why are there no grown tradwives? 'Cause women of a certain age, can't fucking handle that shit no more. - I mean, the pure labor of being a wife and mother, mental labor, physical labor, emotional labor, and then basically volunteering to do it alone. - Yeah. - Wow. - Tough. - No. - Oh, do you have a true crime update? - There is a true crime update, but it's kind of a weird one. - Okay. - And it's around the murders of this four University of Idaho students. - Yeah. - Madison Mogen, Kaylee Gensalvez, Ethan Chapin, and Zana Cronodal. - Brian Cobrager, who was convicted of all four murders last year, is now wants to rescind his guilty plea and get a new trial. - I didn't hear that. - He claims he's innocent and that he was misled into confessing they don't know if that's actually gonna take place, but that's something he's petitioning for right now. - I was so happy that that fucking monster was just gonna go away. We didn't have to look at him anymore. - Right. - But here we go. - Yeah. - That sucks. - You would actually happen because people have the right to put that out there if they want to, and then they'll see who picks it up and what it actually means. - Totally. - All right, well, should we get into it? - Yes, should we talk about our network? - Yes, so we have a network. It's called exactly right media. Go listen to all our podcasts on it. There's so many good ones. - They're right out there for you. - Please, here are some highlights. - This week, over on Ghosted, what's very exciting is the host Rose Hernandez has a new audiobook out called "Ping in an empty bottle." It's about her life on the road as a standup comic. So you can go listen to an excerpt of that on her feed over on the Ghosted Feed. If you like it, you can get the full audiobook available wherever you buy your audiobooks. - Love it. - Our newest limited series, "Royal Swindle," episode four, "Good Cop Bad Cop" is out now. Detected Jim Frost closes in on Evelyn and Layla as more of their past comes to light. But just when it looks like they're cornered, they're loyal butler lars steps in. They're loyal butler lars. This is the level of insanity this podcast gets to and we're only on episode four. - It's amazing. - We're only halfway through large. - It's the craziest. And Rose Swindle's doing amazing on the charts. Thank you guys so much for supporting and downloading and listening and all of that because it's going like gangbusters. Also, if you've ever dreamed of solving crimes at sea, which we know you have, here on Murdering Know, buried bones and disgrace land, are heading aboard Virgin Voyages True Crime Voyage. This coming March, bookings are open now at virginvoidges.com. - How badly do you want to just go on a cruise and have a drink with Jake Brennan, Pucc and Paul Holes and Kate Winkler Dawson? - And just chop it up about facts and evidence. - Oh, that sounds like my dream. - Yeah. - It really does. - Do you want to go? - I can get you tickets. - I want to go. And then in March corner, we still have a handful of Proclensity Items left. You have to check them out. Go to exactlyrightstore.com before they disappear for good. - Haven't you ever wanted to wear merch of your favorite psychiatric drug? - Yeah. - Well, now you can with Proclensity, which is a word, Georgia Mina. - It seems like something you'd run in a 5K, like, and then at the end of the 5K, like they'd hand out merch. - Like some Proclensity. - Yeah. - And like Proclensity merch. - Yeah. - That's just what it makes me think of. - We're also selling those silver blankets that you can wrap around your shoulders. Also, tomorrow we've got a little treat for you because in partnership with cars.com, we're gonna be releasing a bonus episode for you where we give listeners advice. - That was chaotic. - It was absolutely insane, so fun. And speaking of that, we cannot stress enough that we're no way equipped or certified to be giving anyone advice. So please take that advice at your own risk, watch the full video of us leading the public astray, exclusively on the
[email protected]. - Yeah. The end. - And the end. And I'm first. - That's right. - I'm Nancy Glass, host of the "Burden of Guild" season three podcast. It started more than seven years ago when Cindy and Kenny were two 40-somethings who had just gotten engaged. Days later, they walked into a scorched earth war they never saw coming. - Turn on the lights your hands find your back. - The cops gave it to my house and threw me in the jail. - And to Cindy's surprise, her fiance Kenny was charged with abusing one of her children. - I'd never once doubted Kenny and I always doubted the accusation. - On season three of "Burden of Guild," you'll hear a story about the length someone will go to in order to get what they want. - This case has got to be one of the most despicable. - Listen to season three of "Burden of Guild" on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - This one has a mystery element to it, which I know you hate. - Cold case, I hate cold case. - I mean, I wouldn't call it that, although I guess technically it's not. - Okay. - Okay. - So it's April 1964, right? Where when this dress was made. And we're at Michael Reese Hospital on the near south side of Chicago. So we're at this maternity ward, 1964, April. Dora Franzack is happily feeding her two-day-old baby, a boy, her first child, named Paul. Her husband Chester has to return to work at the factory where he's a machinist, but he's planning to come back to the hospital that evening. They're so thrilled at their first baby. And that day, it worked. He's proudly handing out cigars to all his colleagues. While Dora is feeding the baby and Nurse walks into the room. She doesn't say anything and Dora and her roommate, both think it's a little odd, but all she does is lick the blue blanket away from baby Paul's face and look at him for a long moment and then she walks out. But a half hour later, she's back and she tells Dora that the pediatrician would like to examine the baby and Dora hands over her brand new baby, Paul. And it's the last time she'll ever see her newborn. This is the story of the Paul Franzack triple disappearance. Oh, do you know this one? - I mean, I've heard stories of the babies that have been taken or, you know, whatever, but no, I don't know what this is. Get ready. The main source for this book is the book The Foundling by Paul Franzack. He wrote about himself, but we'll get into it. - So a student nurse sees this woman dressed as a nurse walking out with this brand new baby into the stairwell. She doesn't recognize the nurse and she knows that this is not usual protocol. So probably because she's a student and doesn't feel empowered to run up to a nurse who seems more senior than her. She doesn't say anything to the nurse. Instead, she alerts her supervisor. They rush to the nursery and realize that baby Paul is missing. At that point, no one can locate this mysterious woman and the baby, even though they acted immediately, there was no delay, you know? The hospital staff try and successfully for two hours to find Paul and the nurse and then they call Chester at work and tell him what had happened. He has to break the heartbreaking news to Dora. They're in her hospital bed. Well, hundreds of police and FBI officers just send upon the neighborhood. - Hey, they should have had to go in and break the news. - Yeah. - Oh yeah. - So maybe not those. - Maybe he wanted to because it's like coming from someone. - You know what I mean? - Yes. - Someone personal and it's not. - Yeah. - Someone that's going to be weird and cold and quite clinical about it. - Right. - But God. - I know, God. - All they figure out is this. The woman had hailed a cab on the street behind the hospital. The driver said he had driven her west away from the lakefront where the hospital is to 35th Street and Halsted, Avenue, about a 10 minute ride. Then she had gotten out and despite conducting hundreds of interviews and searching hundreds of buildings and homes, investigators never uncover any leads about where the woman took Paul next. And here's a sketch of what she looked like based on the people who saw her. - So it's just so vague. - Woman wearing a nurse's uniform. - Do you think that kind of looks like me? (laughing) - That's my haircut. - It's not your haircut. - I guess maybe. - When I'm like a little stressed out. (laughing) - Wait a second, what? - Wait, Karen. - Wait, what are we gonna do? - Oh my God. - I'm sorry, I kind of long for the days. First of all, when we used to have newspapers and journalism, but that idea where it's kind of like, "Hey, have you seen this person?" - Yeah. - Imagine the kind of things that aren't getting out there and getting communicated and circulated because, although I have to say, and TikTok's going crazy for it, Nancy Grace is back in a big way. - Really? - Yes, she is. She's taking up the Nolan Wells case like herself. - I didn't see that. - Yes. - I mean, I've seen the case and it's just awful, but I didn't know she was getting into it. - She's getting people from like the local, you know, officials and getting them on the show and then just being way confrontational about, you know, that doesn't seem right to me. And her fucking eyebrows are as arched as I've, I mean, it's a real return to form and that it's crazy. - Okay, I'm here for that. - I mean, it's, she's doing something. - Yeah, okay, Nancy, we see you. - Yeah. - So at the time when this in 1964, it had not yet been hospital policy to take fingerprints and footprints for new babies. So the only tangible information the police have on file is the one photo of Paul that was taken right after he was born. They took a snapshot and that's it.
That photo is released to the press as well as those sketches of the woman who took him. So here's his photo as a little baby. I know, just tiny, just two days old. I mean, tiny, but all that hair. Yeah, I mean, good thing they had that photo. Yeah, for real. Oh, it's so cute. The Franz Axe make a few desperate pleas to the press begging for their baby back, but heartbreakingly in those statements, they ask for him to be well cared for. Dora tells a reporter, quote, take good care of him and see that he gets enough to eat. He's everything we built our hopes on for the future. Just so he is taken care of, that's the main thing. So he's just hoping that whoever kidnapped him was doing so to, you know, just to have a baby. Yeah. And so here's a photo of the two of them in the newspaper with the plea. She's in a wheelchair. She just looks devastated. I mean, look at their faces. It's just such a bizarre crime. Such a bizarre situation. Not something you'd expect in a hospital. You think you're totally safe there. Yeah. So similarly, Paul's doctors give detailed instructions to the press about how he should be cared for and how his formula should be prepared because they suspect he might have a cow's milk allergy. So they're just hoping that it's someone who wants to take care of him. And over the next two years, the case goes completely cold. Then in June of 1966, two years and two months after Paul's birth and disappearance, the Franz Axe get the call they've been praying for every single day. A two-year-old boy has been found in New Jersey and authorities believe he might be Paul. So rewind. The boy had been left a year earlier in 1965 in a brand new stroller outside a department store in Newark. He had been dressed in a clean bright blue suit and the stroller and little boy had sat unattended in front of the store for two hours until people realized there was no parents with him. And at 5 p.m., an anonymous caller phones the Newark police and tells him about the child. The child is designated a foundling, a term for an abandoned baby whose origins are unknown, which is like gives you chills to word the foundling. It sounds like a horror movie. Yeah, it does. That one movie with Angelina Jolie. It's like so good. The baby it turns around and then just bangs. It has full set of teeth and a mustache. I think the movie you're thinking of is the changeling. I did love that movie. I love the changeling. Thank you, Molly. Yes, yes, I love that movie. It was so good. And it was based on the true story that I think you covered it. I covered it and it's so upsetting. And it is, that movie is the worst nightmare of any parent that going through this where it's like, oh, some absolute lunatic is keeping children in chicken coop out in the country somewhere. And she is put in an insane asylum. Yes, because nobody wants to hear a lady be like, you guys fuck this up. Yeah. Okay, you guys go watch the changeling. Go watch it. My son. That's my favorite line. I don't remember that line from it. She screams my son about 19 times. That makes sense. We could have edited this down a little bit, I think. So he's a foundling. The police run ads and the local papers about the foundling. To be like, does anyone of his baby this is? And no one comes forward. So he's brought to live with a foster family in watching New Jersey. And he's a playful, friendly little boy. He has a good appetite. He loves to swim in the family's pool and help with grown-up tasks, like unloading the groceries. The only times he seems fearful or upset is when a young man suddenly enters the room and this causes him to cower in fear and sob, which makes the family who were watching him believe he's been abused by a young man. Here's a photo of the little boy with the nurse. He is so freaking cute. Oh my God, he's so cute. I know. And he looks a lot like that baby. Yeah, I mean, that looks like my nephew, Mike, is so much to me too. Yeah. He looks like a perfect two-year progression from that totally baby. Totally. Little boy's speech develops normally over the year he spends in foster care. Sometimes he playfully puts up his fists and says, he doesn't want a box, but he's gentle with the little or babies in the home when they cry. He comforts them saying, don't cry. When he himself falls or hurts himself in some minor way, he comforts himself with the same saying, don't cry. So he remembers something from before. So this woman named Claire Eckert is the foster mom who cares for this little toddler saying, quote, "He is one of the most perfect boys I've ever known. He has charmed all of us with his dearest and kind little ways. He has such a great love of life and he has made us aware of so many things. He was my special baby." End quote. Also God bless the foster parents who are actually doing it and doing it right. Totally for real. It's such an incredible act. OK. When the baby had been found the detective in Newark had alerted the FBI. And for the year that he spends in foster care, the FBI are in and out checking on him. They take molds of his ears. They take blood samples. They take hair samples to see if the baby is little Paul Franzack. They do this same thing to thousands of other little boys around the country hoping to find Paul. But they don't find anything. And we got an email from a murderino, which I'll read in full at some point because it's really interesting. I'll read it on a hometown in the future. But it says this, quote, "My dad was born and adopted on April 24, 1964, of my grandparents. On that same day, Paul Joseph Franzack was stolen from a Chicago hospital by a woman dressed as a nurse." So her dad is born the same day and adopted in Chicago. That's wild. She goes on to say, "The FBI tested and examined over 10,000 babies, one of which was my dad. They came back multiple times to examine my dad and took multiple hair and blood samples. The authorities were highly suspicious of my grandparents as they weren't my dad's biological parents. And their lawyer was under suspicion of black market adoptions." Oh. And then she writes, "Uh, OK." And that's just an excerpt. That's from Ali. The whole email's really great. I'll read it at some point. But what are the chances that a murderino who listens, one of those babies is her dad? On the exact same day. Yeah. And adopted too. That's wild. What did they collect from babies who are just born that they would be able to test it against back then? Yeah, nothing. OK. So by March of 1966, when the baby is just about two years old, they conclude that they can't definitively say that the baby is Paul, this little baby in foster care. But they also can't rule it out. And of all the little boys who have been tested, this is the only time that they are kind of like it might be him. So in June of 1966, the FBI makes the call to the Franz Axe. Authorities believe the baby looks like Dora and Chester Franz Axe. And when a couple arrive in New Jersey to meet him, they believe it's their son, Dora cries out, oh my god, that's my baby. I know. It's a joyous ending for everyone, though perhaps a little bittersweet for Claire Ecker, the foster mother. She'd given the little boy the name Scott, and she writes a letter to Dora saying, quote, "For all the sadness you have both known, you are in for so much joy, for you will now see things through Scott's eyes, and he can make them lovely." Oh, I know, he's not touching. Yeah. So Scott becomes Paul, the baby that had been kidnapped that they had lost, and life goes on. And Paul lives a normal life in a working class neighborhood on the south side of Chicago. He's never told about the first two years of his life. That's very VC Andrews of those parents. Like what? I mean, I guess-- Mine is all the abuse and incest, right? Yes. And creepy addicts and stuff, but it makes sense that he's too young anyway at the time, but that feels like back in the time where it's like, "Oh, it's fine if he never knows about." Right. His real origin. And maybe-- so he's still a kid at this point, so maybe they would have told him when he's older, how is a kid going to wrap their head around that? Sit down and just deal with it. Just like face it straight on. You're a child. You're a little adult, right? This is going to fuck up third grade for you, but just try to wrap your mind around. Imagine this. OK. So Dora had been pregnant when authorities told the frauds acts that they thought they had found Paul. So Paul comes home and just six months later, his little brother Dave is born. So like, what a mind fuck. Yeah. For those parents, especially, right? In December of 1974, when Paul is 10, he starts snooping around the house like we all did, looking for his Christmas presents. In the basement, he pulls a couch away from the wall. You always got to poop the furniture. Oh, yeah. That's right. And he exposes a little crawl space behind it and he shimmies in and against the back wall, hidden behind some frame paintings, are three shoe boxes in a hat box. Ooh, to find those. To move something and be like, these have been hidden here. Totally. Yeah. I found my grandma's and my grandpa's love letters to each other before they were married. Snooping. So sorry, grandma. Well, here's the thing. All people should realize, little kids snoop right. If you're not there, they're going to go through your nightstand tours. Totally. That's just a way to pass the time. Just don't keep your gross stuff in obvious places. Don't be such a perv. So Paul, of course, opens the boxes and realizes they're full of newspaper clippings and letters. And he pulls out a clipping and sees a picture of a newborn and a picture from his parents. 10 years younger, that photo. He recognizes them and they're devastated. And the letters are all from well-wishers and people who had been praying for the Fronzax. So Paul realizes that he's this baby. He goes into the kitchen of the mom, like, what the hell? She gets angry at him for snooping. And he's like, OK, but what you did is worse. What the hell's going on? And he asks if those articles are about him. And she says, quote, yes, those are about you. You were kidnapped. We found you. We love you. And that is all there is to know, end quote. OK, mom. OK, mom. Go watch TV. Of course, that's not all there is to know. And Paul pretty much lives the rest of his childhood and much of his adult life, wondering if he really is his parents missing baby. Or if he was for the first two years of his life, someone else. And while Paul does love his family, he says he always feels a bit distant from them. And he had felt that even before discovering all these newspaper clippings and finding out the truth, he says he's always had this underlying suspicion that he's an outsider.
to his family, which I wish I felt that way too. But I fucking, those motherfuckers are my blood. And I know that. - You say something, Janet says something. - Yeah, it's like, I see where I got all my problems right. - I mean, it's also interesting because I wonder if he would always feel that no matter if he was flesh and blood, because of the-- - Right, like even it turned out to be true, it just-- - Yeah, there was kind of foundational years. - Yeah. - He was in a different place and that in and of itself, right? Could just be creating that feeling. - No, that makes no sense. - Turn your hands on your back. - The cops give it to my house and turn me into jail. - On season three of "Burden of Guild," you'll hear a story about the lengths someone will go to in order to get what they want. - Welcome aboard season six of "The Girlfriends," flight or fight, which takes place 30,000 feet in the sky. There's great food, comfortable chairs, and attentive stewardesses. - The stewardesses were so beautiful. - But in reality, the stewardess job is far less glamorous than it appears. - It was the most sexist job I think you could have. - In this era, the airlines told these stewardesses they have to be single. - They had no good excuse for why they wouldn't let women be married. - They have to be skinny. - We were starving ourselves. - And they have to be young. - You would retire at age 32. But one day, a group of stewardesses said, - This has gotta stop. - They risked it all, turning a fight for fairness into a revolution. Listen to "The Girlfriends," flight or fight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Two Aussie lesbian lovers touched down in 1990s London and become the toast of British high society. - One of them touts an exclusive investment opportunity. And soon, the money is rolling in. - From USG audio, Blanchard House, and exactly right media. This is "Royal Swindle," new episodes drop every Thursday. - He doesn't get a satisfactory answer until much later. In the interim, he grows up. He graduates high school, moves to Arizona, gets married, gets divorced, works a bunch of different jobs, and never quite seems to figure out what the right thing for him is as a lot of us are gonna do. - At age 40, in around 2005, he decides to give acting a try, and he actually makes a living at it. Side note, he's fucking super handsome. - Let's take a lickety lickety lickety. - I wanna tell you what he looks like before you see it. He looks like, I think, Chris Hanson and a young Keith Morrison combined. He looks like the perfect, like 20-- - Hanson from "To Catch a Friend." - He looks like a date line or 20-20 hosts. Like he would be telling you about his own crime. - Oh, I see. - So here he is. - Okay. - Hi. - Oh, hi. - So her fox. - So he's based in Las Vegas at this point. He gets a lot of commercial and print ad campaigns, and then he gets a nice gig as George Clooney's stand-in on "Ocean's Eleven." - Nice. - So like, clearly, don't you see Chris Hanson and Keith Morrison? - I do. (laughing) - That's a square job. So he meets a woman named Michelle, and they fall in love and get married, and then Michelle gets pregnant, and at this point, you know, Paul is forced to confront this question. It's nagged him his whole life, because his doctors start asking him about his family's medical history. I feel like a lot of people find out those stories that they send us for the hometown stories. - Yeah, like the ancestry.com. - Yeah, type of curiosity that then unravels. - Speaking of. - Hello. - This is before the explosion of DNA genealogy kits, but at-home paternity tests are, at this point, available at drug stores. It's a moribovic, totally. So Paul buys one, and while his parents are in town visiting them, he asks them to take the test, and they do, but then they start to have regrets. They ask Paul not to send the swabs in for testing, like just don't, we don't even want to know. - Right. - Paul agonizes over the decision for a week, but ultimately he sends the test in. And a few weeks later, he gets the answer that no one wants to hear, but it feels like everyone kind of already knows. Dora and Chester are not Paul's biological parents. I know. - I mean, but it also has to be a little bit like, hey, at least I know, I can trust my gut. - Right. - If I feel something and I have this instinct, and I know there's a reason to follow it. - Like Limbo is not a place to live your whole life. Paul's parents are at first furious at him for sending him the test, and they're devastated, having their nightmare reopened, and the realization that they have no idea where their biological son has been for more than 40 years. Like they could trick themselves into thinking they had him and now the devastation that it's all coming back, you know, coming true again. - Yeah. - And this opens a rift between Paul and his family that lasts for the next several years as Paul begins to piece things together on his own. At this point, Paul conducts exhaustive research about his own life. He speaks with a woman named Mary Hendry, whose father, John T. Carton, had been a Chicago police lieutenant and had run the kidnapping investigation originally. She says, this woman says, quote, I remember my father standing in the kitchen of her home shaking his head. He talked about what good people the Franz acts were, and how badly he felt for them and what a good job they would do raising the baby. But he also said that the child they took home was not their baby. - He knew. - He was certain it wasn't the right boy. My father told us the FBI and the police both agree the child was not the kidnapped baby, but the Franz acts were such good people. They agreed to let it unfold the way it did, end quote. So there's a two-year-old baby missing. This two-year-old baby needs a family. Let's all just, what's a cognitive dissonance? What's it called? - Yeah, just like selective. So everyone denial. - Yeah. - Yeah. Isn't that sad? - And it reminds me of the changeling. - Totally. - It's that same thing of like changeling version is much more sad because the mother immediately knew. - Yeah. - But yeah, when you're in that situation and someone's like, the dates line up, the timing, the this, the that, then you just want to be out of your misery. - I feel like you'd be a little psychotic if your fucking baby was kidnapped. - Because then it makes sense how mad they are to him when he opens it back up. 'Cause they're like, we can't face the fact that then we gave up. - Paul shares the story with the media and it attracts a lot of attention. So the FBI reopens the Paul Franz Act case. In 2013, he's contacted by ancestry and they tell him about their new DNA genealogy project. And so Paul submits his DNA. There are a lot of false leads. And then a group of genetic genealogists called the DNA detectives led by our girl, CC Moore, who's, of course, the head of Parabond Nanolabs, genetic genealogy unit, she winds up taking on Paul's case and we know she can solve anything. - Great. - So in 2015, they finally figure out who Paul is. He was born, the little baby who was found outside the store, the department store. He was born Jack Rosenfall and shockingly, it turns out he was a twin. - Ooh. - So this is probably the saddest twist in the story. Paul learns that he had been born in an Atlantic city, New Jersey. Remember, he was found in Newark and that he and his twin sister Jill, so it was Jack and Jill, had disappeared in 1965. So he travels back to New Jersey. He meets relatives who said that they had seen him and Jill as babies, and then suddenly his parents started making up excuses as to why he and his sister were not around anymore. - What, I know. - Like they just dropped them off in front of a store? - Well, there are other relatives who say that they had seen Jack and Jill abused and neglected. Paul learns that his father had been a Korean war veteran and likely had PTSD. Remember, he would get scared when an younger man would walk into the room. He learns that his mother had been an alcoholic and both of Paul's biological parents had died in the '90s of cancer. So Paul pursues multiple avenues to try to find his twin sister including digging up the lot where his biological parents house had been. - Wow. - He never finds anything. - Oh, he was digging up the lot like his sister could be buried. - Yeah, wow. - Because after they were children, no one saw anything. He knows he survived and what happened to him but no one knows what happened to Jill. The working theory is that Jill may have died in their biological parents' care due to abuse or neglect and that Paul was then abandoned at the same time 'cause they both kinda disappeared together. So Paul also has a biological older sister who's only about two years older than him. He meets her. She has no memory of him or Jill. He also has a brother who he emails and who says he doesn't wanna be in contact. Both of these siblings, of course, had extremely difficult challenges.
childhoods. So for about five years, this is where the investigation is at a standstill. Paul publishes his book, The Founding in 2017, never having found the real little boy who was stolen from his parents. That's like, he solved this mystery of who he was, but there's still this big question mark. And so in 2020, it comes out that the FBI had identified the real baby of Dora and Chester a year before in 2019. His name had been Kevin Rae baby, but his existence is only reported on after his death of cancer. So he had found out shortly after finding the test results out. So he didn't really want anyone to know is him, I think, or we don't really know what was going on there. Kevin's children had seen reports about Paul's search for answers. And for reasons that are still unclear, had suspected that their father is the real Paul Franz Act. Kevin had taken a DNA test and these suspicions were confirmed. And then he passes away from cancer. And then the FBI lets everyone know. Kevin had lived in a small town in Michigan called Mantin. Friends and neighbors remember him as a very kind man. So here's a photo of the baby picture and an age progression drawing. Yeah, of what he would look like. Okay, now here's the baby and what he actually looks like. So look at that guy. It looks like him. Yeah. Like, and then think of fake George Clooney. Like, that does look anything like the baby. Like, as you can tell what a baby's going to look like, but isn't that crazy? That's so close. We'd go back. Yeah, that's that's wild. Yeah, they should have taken so that's their real baby. I know that's sad. Okay, before Kevin's death, he had gotten to speak on the phone multiple times with Dora Franz Act. At this point, the case is still considered open and very few details about Kevin and what happened to him after he was kidnapped from the hospital have been reported, but we do know this. Kevin had been raised by a woman named Lorraine Fountain. She died in 2004. And Lorraine had been dating a doctor from Chicago and then moved to Arkansas for about a year. And when she returned to Michigan, where her family lived, she had a baby with her. But Paul, who now has a podcast called the Franz Act files, and he's actively investigating his whole story and trying to figure everything out. Yeah, he doesn't believe that Lorraine was the one who kidnapped the baby. He believes that she had some kind of connection to organized crime in Chicago. And Paul believes that Lorraine was paid to forge a birth certificate and raise Kevin as her own. Why though? I don't know. It's almost like was there some black market for babies probably, right? I don't know. Does the mafia trade in babies? That doesn't seem like their style. I know, but like maybe one of the mafia shows girlfriends wanted a baby. And so they kidnapped one and it didn't work out. And then they couldn't just give it back, right? They had a like, yeah, that's going so far around the bend. It's easy to get a baby. Take it from me, Georgia. It's really easy to get a baby. How did you watch that documentary about the woman who would just go take them out of people's houses? No, it's even worse than that. I call that maternal instinct. maternal instinct is a good. It's so it's so troubling. Okay, it's just you wouldn't because I saw something on TikTok talking about it, but the people were so freaked out that we're telling it. I was like, should I not? You've covered a case very similar to it. It's it's so psychotic. You just couldn't it lead ladies that want to be pregnant and go after pregnant ladies, something to learn those lines lying about pregnancy and then the extreme that they go through when they get caught and just won't let it go. Here's the thing. We have a lot of shame about who we've been in our lives and the obsessions that we've had. Absolutely. The mistakes we've made so away. But every once in a while and maybe that's what this is all about is looking at these extreme human beings and going, at least I never stole someone else's baby because I was obsessed with having a baby totally and lied about being pregnant. Why? Why? I can't even understand why you would lie to it, which makes me think I'm a good person. I mean, all I want to do is get drunk at the rest again and eat grilled cheese sandwiches all day long. That sounds great. I don't want anything to do with anybody's baby. No, same. No, thanks. Paul. Are we allowed to say it? Send us your babies. We don't want anything to do with that. Send us your bad baby stories. Yeah. Send us, tell us how hard baby it is. Paul has recently put out a call for more information. He's hoping to hear from anyone who lived in Chicago from 1962 to 1964 who frequented an establishment known as Durkins bar. And I looked it up and it was like he rustic dive bars. It was one of those bars where like you want a clock and afternoon people were already drunk kind of a place. It's not like that anymore. Unfortunately, it's a little more like college bros, but it still exists. So ask your dad's everyone. What's the theory? I don't know. I don't know. Somebody in there. Yeah, I want to listen to that. Maybe that the dad, his actual dad used to go there, you know, the one who was had PTSD and maybe talked about his children. Oh, yeah. You know, like in a drunken way, where he would have his mom was an alcoholic. So maybe she fucking hung out there and just. Yeah, totally. Oh, that's interesting. Right. Guys, ask your grandfather's piece it together. The official FBI investigation into who exactly took Kevin, AKA little Paul, when he was just two days old, also remains open. And that is the story of the Paul Franz Act triple disappearance. I know. We'd have an idea. Why don't they, why don't they, how would you do it? Forward age, the illustration of the lady in the newspaper. Yeah, or or backwards age, something do something with that information, because that's a, that's a witness sighting. Yeah, but it's so vague that I can't imagine. Yeah, it just looks like any, it looks like a nurse, you know, yeah, so many of us crazy, I know, you've done it again. I know. I'm sorry. I told you, here's the thing. I think it's great that Paul Franz, I could start at a podcast. I think that's exactly where things like that belong. Yeah. And then people who listen to these podcasts and similar podcasts can get involved. Yeah. Yeah, solve it. Tell us, we want to do a true crime update soon about this case, please. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guild season three podcast. It started more than seven years ago when Cindy and Kenny were two 40 somethings who had just gotten engaged days later, they walked into a scorched earth war they never saw coming. Turn around and let your hands find your back. The cops give it to my house and through me and jail. And to Cindy's surprise, her fiance Kenny was charged with abusing one of her children. I never once doubted Kenny. And I always doubted the accusation. On season three of Burden of Guild, you'll hear a story about the length someone will go to in order to get what they want. This case has got to be one of the most despicable. Listen to season three of Burden of Guild on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome aboard season six of the girlfriend's flight or fight, which takes place 30,000 feet in the sky. There's great food, comfortable chairs and attentive stewardesses. The stewardesses were so beautiful. But in reality, the stewardess job is far less glamorous than it appears. In this era, the airlines told these stewardesses they have to be single. They had no good excuse for why they wouldn't let women be married. They have to be skinny. We were starving ourselves. And they have to be young. You would retire at age 32. But one day, a group of stewardesses said, this is gotta stop. They risked it all, turning a fight for fairness into a revolution. Listen to the girlfriends flight or fight on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One of them touts an exclusive investment opportunity. And soon the money is rolling in. Rich businessmen and England's horse loving elite fall under their seductive spell. From USG audio, Blanchard House and exactly right media. This is Royal Swindle. New episodes drop every first day. Listen now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Luckily, my story is all about evidence and facts, collecting evidence and facts. And hey, it's a little bit of a turn. I guess the I think you'll enjoy it. It begins in the mid 80s, which I know you like to in southeastern Michigan, which you also like. And in a round flint, right, which is if you don't know, not too far from Detroit, it's a difficult time. The mid 80s is a difficult time for many.
many communities in this part of Michigan, General Motors has begun closing local plants, costing thousands of people their livelihoods, and then the wave of crack cocaine hits the streets. Over the last two decades, drugs like heroin have taken a toll on many Michiganders, but crack spawns a uniquely devastating crisis and the state's violent crime rate sores and peaks in 1986. So it is around that time. And so of course, when that happens, the anti-drug abuse act of 1986 becomes federal law, and that kicks off Ronald Reagan's war on drugs. That's what I grew up as a little kid, like drilled in your fucking head. It made me want to do drugs so bad. It was, you know, it's funny. It makes me think of the first time anyone ever offered me pot. I was a freshman in high school and I burst into tears. Wow. That's how intense Nancy Reagan's. She fucking bent little finger pointing at us. I mean, those people blight on humanity. Don't upset the ghost of my mother who will come and haunt us forever. No, 'cause she agrees with it. Not just she's mad at it. She agrees with it. It's just a point where she will cross back over to lecture both of us about how Ronald Reagan ruined this country. I will sit fucking it. Chris Cross apples us and listen to Nurse Pat. Tell me everything. Dude, that is how I was raised. If you ever like, why is she the way she is? Because dinner was either my dad being hilarious or my mom literally predicting like an ancient Greek oracle the future where it's like, what, who's gonna take care of these people? These laws that they're passing at it, like fear, fear, so much fear. And intense pattern recognition, which I'm always very proud of. She passed it down. All that is to say, war on drugs kicks off in this country and it kicks into overdrive, introducing new laws like mandatory minimum sentences for drug crimes. In recent years, public health experts have criticized these policies as being racist, punitive, and not particularly effective at addressing drug use in any way. It's underlying issues or drug sales on the streets. Just didn't help really anything at all. But it was the '80s. So when Nancy Reagan appears in a telecast from the White House wearing her little red sweater and begging young Americans to quote, just say no, the idea of the war on drugs becomes broadly popular. It's like, oh, they're really doing something about these drug addicts and these people in this crime. The messaging was inescapable. It was everywhere. So here she is, remember? Oh, God. That fucking shampoo set and that Mr. T chain around her neck. Fucking ate her. That Mr. T chain. She was good friends with Mr. T. It's just so weird because the first lady passing down this, this is what we're all going to do about. It's just such a different time. It's like it was Victorian times or something. How we were all just in the monoculture going, yes, Nancy, you're right. Your husband's an actor. So that makes you what? That makes you also an actor. That's right. So by 1990, the war on drugs is in full swing. Yet lots of people are still buying and selling drugs. It turns out, enter a man named Lacey Brown. He is a big rough and tumble chain smoking, 47-year-old North Carolinian living in Southeastern Michigan. He's got long hair. He's got a big beard, pierced ears. His nickname is Moon, which is a double entendre. Not only does he stay up all night drinking, he also gets a kick out of dropping his pants and showing his bare ass to people at parties. Which wasn't problematic back then. It was a height of humor back then. Strieking, moaning people, being a peeping Tom. The amount of grown man's asses we saw as humor. Yes. This is unsettling. It was non-stop. So let's take a look at Moon's just so we get the sense of the guy who likes moaning people so much that's his nickname. The guy with the front. It's the front guy with the long hair and the beard. And overalls. Essentially, based on that appearance, you would assume he's either a drug dealer or maybe a drug purchaser. Is he? He's actually an undercover cop. Oh, fuck. And he is in the area to bust drug rings. This is the story of Lacey Moon Brown and the 1990 wedding sting. Oh, my God. I don't-- this is like a theme I'm really fucking obsessed with that we just don't hear enough of. Yes. Tom Fulure of the Cops in the '80s. Yeah, undercover in a really dangerous situation. Yes. And actually embedding yourself-- your whole life is that role in the mafia, too, and they have it. I just find that so fascinating. Yeah, like the movie Donnie Brasco. Right. It's just like, he's in and he can't get out. It is such a crazy life. So this whole story that I'm about to tell you is based on a 2015 Atlantic article by a reporter named Jeff Mesh, entitled The Wedding Sting. The rest of the sources are in our show notes, but that article is the primary source. So this man, Lacey Brown's personal journey that led him to law enforcement is unorthodox, to say the least. This is according to him. This is his story. He starts drinking when he's six years old. He joins the Marines in his 20s, but gets kicked out for violent conduct in the Marines. [LAUGHS] As a civilian, I like that. I know, it's not the point. As a civilian, he racks up charges for everything from a legal possession of moonshine to assault. In 1972, when he's around 30 years old, he finds himself in a jail cell following yet another arrest for felony assault with a deadly weapon. This is rock bottom for him. He's going through severe alcohol withdrawal and he begs for God's mercy. And then his felony is suddenly reduced to a misdemeanor, and he's released from custody. He takes it as a sign that God is listening to him and he vows to change his life. So he course corrects by becoming a police officer. Jesus. A little bit of laugh, bro. He's like, don't go fishing. Don't just take a sharp right. How about-- You could become a plasterer. Totally. A welder. It's something. He's welder. Help people-- Postman. That's perfect. Postman. I guess, right? Bring your beard around. You can moon people if you want at the end of your shift. In 1977 against all odds, Moon graduates from the police academy and he gets his start at a department just outside of Detroit. Wait, the violent guy? The violent guy? Oh, the violent. Two violent for the Marine for the Marine Corps. Great. Now he's at your local police department, correct? But he's not your typical police officer. Later on, one of his colleagues will say, quote, if you saw him, you'd never believe he was a cop. He had food stuck in his beard. I mean, I'd buy it. That's way to give a quote. Yeah. Way to talk about what's important. Like, I slept with his wife or something. He's just like, this guy's a pig, but another coworker describes him as, quote, more believable as a bad guy than he was as a police officer, end quote. So Moon's unconventional look and wild disposition work for him, especially, of course, when he starts going undercover. And as he does, he is so effective that he basically becomes a free agent of sorts, doing contracted work for everyone from the DEA to the FBI to various drug units across Michigan. So I'm sure that not very many cops looked like him or had that kind of built in, there's no way you could be a cop energy. Right. And the like, he had so many years to practice being a bad guy. If you're 21 and you're a cop, you'd never broken the law in your life, maybe. Yeah. You don't know how they act. You haven't hung out with bad people. So he kind of knows that. He knows them. He's drawing from a rich well of experience. And also, it's the thing I think of on TikTok all the time, which is people don't understand what good acting is. They think that good acting is like the thing. And it's like, no, no, no, you have to go way under and make people think you're not doing anything. Yeah, I can't do that. Yeah, it's hard. It's very hard. It's a true skill. But for somebody that's actually going undercover, it's like, I'm sure they saw this guy. We're like, holy shit, he's so believable. Get him while you can. Because the other guys are like, I'll put my part on the other side, and then we'll get him Nancy. So it's dangerous work. Of course, Moon regularly works nights to ingratiate himself with the local criminals while investigating a full range of crimes. He gets shot at. He is robbed. He is beaten. But his legend grows with each new job, which usually ends in a big cinematic sting operation and multiple arrests. So he goes in and he does his time and he makes his friends. And then he then it all blows up. And I love these though, because then he gets arrested on the scene too and taken away. I always was like, how does he move on to the next thing when they all know that he's the guy, forget it. You get it. I drink a lot of Coca-Cola. Drink to that and power through it. No, exactly. And I think that keeping people's cover is so crucial. But then again, I just want to keep on putting it in the parameters of, this was the war on drugs, which was an illogical kind of like the rebirth of that cop culture of leave it to them they know best. It's like the police state. That's what it, I mean, not that it's not now. We all know that. But like, that's kind of when it was the source of it where everyone jumped on board and said, no, this is the best way to handle our problems. If you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't, you know, all that shit. But now in 2026, it's like people are just like, oh, wait a second. Do they not have our best interest? Right. As the robot dog with guns attached to its head walks down and keeps the peace. The only good thing that came out of the war on drugs, I have it at my house. Murderino gave it to me. It's the fucking case that you open up and they show you every kind of drug that you could get that they brought to an elementary school and showed all the kids what it do be looked like and what fucking quailes looked like. And some murderinos, dad was a cop, went in her fucking garage, yes, sent it to me. Here's the dare program in exactly treasure. I'll bring it for a fan call.
- That's a great idea. That was a true highlight of our early days. - Every time I see it, I'm like, "Everything's worth it." All the downst, worth it for this second. - That and those haunted dolls that we had for a while. That's really peaked. We'll get back there someday. Okay, so the thing about this guy is that he was really in it and he was really doing it. So like for example, one of his most famous arrests was he goes to a local carnival and he follows a suspect onto the zipper. My favorite ride at the carnival, that I've talked about multiple times. He actually does stuff like that. - You don't have to go on, bro. - Nope, he rests and stands over there. - He's spinning in a circle, chasing him and the eternal, you'll always be behind him. Another time, he posts a fake obituary for a living suspect that he's just apprehended and stages a fake funeral for him. And when that suspects criminal associates show up to warn him, pay his respects, moon arrests a bunch of them. - So smart. - So for background, officers in most cases are allowed to use deception to lure suspects to an arrest, but it becomes entrapment if the officer's actions directly result in a suspect committing a crime they otherwise would not have committed. - Right. - So there's a kind of a difference there where it's like, that used to be the concern. That's the Serpico world of like crooked cops versus the ones that are trying to do good. - Planting, you can't plant evidence, but no, blah, blah, blah. - And I think this is where all of that starts to flip in that serious way of there's this weird kind of trust of like your local authorities are gonna fight a war on drugs and we're all gonna support them in it and that idea. - Yeah, it's for the greater good. It's getting drugs out of children's hands when it's like, that's not what's happening. - It's not what happened. It's being fucking lied to. - And how did those drugs get onto the street in the first place? - Right. - Okay, so back to this undercover cop, moon who is very dedicated. He actually meets his wife while working undercover. He arrests her brother for making a bomb. - Does he trick her? I hate that part. They do get married and stuff and like the wife doesn't know. - Oh no, no, she does. - Oh, she does, okay. Yes. - Okay, so her brother is making a bomb. - He has to go undercover to meet the brother to arrest him for bomb making and then he's like, "Well, once that is over." So now we're in 1990, moon is working undercover in the Flint, Michigan area investigating the local drug trade and based on reporting, it seems that this drug trade was much more pot focused than it was crack cocaine focus. He is working alongside a 38 year old Flint police officer named Debbie Williams and Jeff Mesh, the author from that Atlantic article, describes Debbie as one of only a few women who quote, "Crawled, shot and boxed her way through the male-dominated police academy in Flint." - Oh yeah. - And Dr. Clary Stirling over here. - Right, she had to jump over that thing. Gray sweatshirt, so moon and Debbie work undercover together posing as boyfriend and girlfriend drug addicts. Debbie will later say quote, "I had to tell moon, "you have to remember to pretend you're in love with me." He was kind of embarrassed by it all, so he wasn't a great actor. I'm sure he was, it was just like him as himself. But then Debbie comes along and they have to kind of set up these things, one of his characters was in a relationship and so he had to pretend like he was in a relationship and that's when his acting got stressed - So wild. - Straightened a little bit. - Weird. - Right. But to the people that they are regularly buying drugs from, the couple is believable. Debbie has bright blonde hair and a stoner persona and it seems like a natural fit with moon's bearded, chain-smoking kind of tough guy persona. Rounding out this team is Sergeant Vic Wasillition of the Shia Wasi County Sheriff's Department. Vixen is mid-40s, he's essential to this operation 'cause basically moon and Debbie go and they hang out, they make their drug deals and they buy and they talk to people and then they meet covertly with Vic. They get into a car usually in a remote parking lot. They do basically an info dump tell him everything they've just seen and heard and the names and the dates and everything into a recorder he has and then that will later be kind of processed and used as evidence. Vic knows the undercover world himself. In the 80s he worked as a, he went undercover as a biker named Animal to infiltrate the local cocaine trade. That was very dangerous. He found himself walking a tight line between not blowing his cover and not breaking the law. - Do they have to do drugs? - Well, it's interesting, that's illegal that they do drugs but then of course testing people and making them do drugs to prove they're not cops is very common. So there are times where to keep covered, they do have to do it. So for example, once a man shoved a gun in Vic's face, demanding he smoke a joint to prove he wasn't a cop. Obviously he smoked the joint but he usually found ways they got very creative about how to stay clean in those situations. He actually carried around a modified coke straw that had a special blockage kind of compartment inside. So he could snort coke and it would catch the coke in the straw but never go into his nose. - Wow, bummer, totally what a waste. I mean, yeah, 'cause then they would have to get drug tested. I mean, they could not lose people to become drug addicts. - Right, yeah. 'Cause drugs are bad for you. So ultimately, Moon, Debbie and Vic spend months building relationships with these local dealers and then criminal cases against them. But Moon has spent more than a decade in law enforcement at this point and this high risk work isn't paying that much. He and his wife Beth now have small children and she will later say quote, "There were times we couldn't afford to eat and I felt bitter." - Wow, yeah. - Yeah, all I ever wanted was a roof over our head and quote. So together they dream of a quieter, easier life, maybe back in Moon's native North Carolina where they could buy land and settle down. So that's kind of the plan that they come up with but of course Moon wants to do one last big job. - You can never do one last big job. - They always have to these men spend the longer the beard, the more they have to do one last big. So in September of 1990, Moon pulls Vic aside and says quote, "I'd kind of like to go out with a bang. Do you got any ideas?" So Vic says, "Yes, I do, buddy." Because Vic has come up with the ultimate drug sting. One that enables them to arrest all the suspects they have been investigating over the last several months in one big fell swoop while saving the local cash strapped police departments big money. - A wedding. - A wedding. - I love it. - A fucking wedding. They're gonna throw fake wedding. What's crazy to me is reading the phrase the local cash strapped police departments which here in 2026 just doesn't exist anymore. 'Cause they figured out politically you take the war on drugs, energy, you keep building that of we've got to fight for every crime, fear, fear, fear. And now we have police budget lines that are 100 times longer than any other budget. And the teachers make minus $500 a day. - Seriously. - It's fucking insanity. - Okay, is there anything to say then every time? - I love it. - So the same afternoon that Vic and Moon are having this discussion, Moon calls his partner Debbie and asks her to fake marry him. She says sure. And now the Shiawasi County Sheriff's Department a lots a very tight budget for this team to pull off this wedding sting. So they shift into planning mode. Writer Jeff Mesh reports, quote, in the weeks leading up to the wedding, cops put aside crime reports and fingerprints to work on seating plans and floral arrangements. What if one of them was like, secretly like, this is all I've ever heard. - I'm so good at this. - And then like quit to become a wedding planner. - Yeah. - But they're the guy that's like standing there with the shorts cigar, like the, you know, the comeover. - You never know. - And he just like taps into something beautiful. He has a true vision. Well, that didn't happen in this wedding because it's so hilariously bad and funny to me. So in the weeks leading up to the wedding, the operations room began to sound like a wedding planner's office as grizzled lawmen interrogated caterers. During briefings, they discussed whether the bride should wear her hair up or down. - Oh my God. - How much they would spend on food and how they would squeeze Moon into a tuxedo. - Oh my God. - Variant. He's a little, the beard got trimmed from that first picture you saw. - Yeah, he looks like a trucker or like a bikeer. - Yeah. - For sure. - He's the real tire. - I like that tire on the bathroom. That's neither here nor there. - That looks like every live show we've ever done. We're just like, totally. - I come out and I'm like, hey, can you pull these spanks out? Help me pull my spanks out. - I don't know how I'm going to zip this. - Okay, so the wedding date is set. It's September 21st. This wedding is going to be held at a discreet, modestly sized and importantly, an expensive community hall near Owasa, Michigan. - Like buffet tables? - Oh yeah. - I can just see them. - Those fold out. - Yeah, great. - Long numbers. And they put a nice paper tablecloth over the top. - Oh my God. - Debian Moon continue buying drugs and collecting evidence. Only now, when they do it, they share the happy news with all of their drug friends and they start handing out wedding invitations to these people, aka the dozens of suspects that they're trying to entrap in this ring. - It's pretty smart. - Or not entrap, sorry, trying to invite to participate in this thing. - In this kind of mean thing, because also I was thinking about it where it's like, so they're there buying pot. It sounds like buying co-cure in there maybe, who knows? And just kind of hanging out with people. And then these people, they're like, hey, do you want to come and celebrate our love? - Oh my God, I'm so touched that you didn't invite me. Like I didn't know we were that close, but like that really means a lot to me. - Yeah. And I'm just selling this pot 'cause I'm trying to get by. - Yeah. - And 40 years HBO or Showtime's gonna make a series about how it's cool if this mom is just selling some pot. But for writing.
- Now, we have lived in a society that believes we should go to jail for 50 years because of it. - Let me get you a wedding gift, too. That's the most fucked up thing, is they all arrive with a fucking blender. - I mean. - Yes, I want my blender back, is what I'd fucking say. - I think it, thank you notes. - I will see, because who knows the level of dirt bag that this wedding truly goes to, it would be kind of fun to be able to see. But spoiler alert, it has been optioned to be made into a movie because of course this is that kind of like only America in 1990, could this thing happen? - Amazing. - So, now it's the night of September 21st, and guests begin to show up to the venue just before 6 p.m. Vic is posted in one of the cars out in the parking lot, clocking each suspect as they enter. Outside the venue guests are greeted by a big sign telling them to check their weapons before entering. - So smart. - And most people comply, leaving their guns, knives, and I added brass knuckles in their car. - In the car. - They go back to the car. - Yeah. - They unload everything, hammer, a size. - Like they have like, but take your wedding gift, and it's just a little baggy of Coke. It's like not entrapment or planting it. If you took it and put it in your pocket. - Yeah, that's right. They take their Coke and they put it in a beautiful wedding card with some Jordan almonds. - Yeah. - God damn Jordan almonds used to bum me out as a kid. - Such bummer. - First of all, I was like, are we allowed to open this netting? Why are we digging into netting? - That's disgusting. - And then just for a shitty old almond. - Okay. - It's all dead. - Okay, now it's all dead, not chocolateed. Once the guests get inside, there's an open bar, there's music, and there's dancing, and they're having a raffle. - Okay. - For about $100, which would be how much in today's money? - $600. - $250. - Well, it's only 1990. - You can enter to win a chance to win an entire brick of marijuana. - Okay, a raffle at a wedding is like, fuck yes. - It's hilarious. - I love it. - In a brick of marijuana, this is not as cool. - Which is stacked nearby. - That's so funny. - I would like to think. - Is it cush? - Yeah. - If I walked in, what would we talk about? - If I walked in, I'd be like, open bar raffle for weed in a brick. - Yeah. - This feels wrong. - Yeah. - This is all too good. - Totally. - Yeah, but I do think we should start doing raffles at weddings. - Hell yes. - Are you listening, listener? - Are you listening brides? You selfish brides? - Invite us. - And also raffle off like, what would be good to get at a wedding? - One of the gifts. - Take a gift. - Take one of the gifts on the table. - You're like, oh my God, we got a new air fryer. - Yeah, you can't open it. We should pick a gift off the fucking. - That's a really good idea. - Or like, your raffle wins you, you get to do the money dance. - Move aside, bride. - Have you, I didn't know about money dances until. - Is it Greek or is it Italian? - I think a lot of cultures do that actually. - I think so too. - That's fucking cool. - Not Irish Catholic. - We just get raised in a chair, which is pretty fucking awesome. - Yeah, for a bit. Irish Catholics would be like, we don't need your money. - Assuming these bricks weigh about a pound each, the weed in the raffle would be worth on the street today in 2026, how much money a brick? - $100 for talking, you said? - Yes. - So if you only paid $100 for this brick, then how much? - I don't know how much a brick's supposed to be. - Yes, you do. We all know you went to rehab. - Not for fucking weed. - Not for selling bricks of weed. Street worth $1,000 today. - In today's money. - That's a lot. - Right, good for a hundred. - Yeah. - A hundred for a thousand. - We'll take it. - And back to the entrapment point from earlier. - Right. - Because they are not placing these pot bricks into suspects hands directly, it's fine. They're simply creating an opportunity for the suspects to bid on them on their own volition. Therefore it's not entrapment. - That is tricky, tricky, tricky. Whoever, whatever fucking police officer came up with that idea, got a raise or whatever. - I mean, I think so. - Got a brick of weed. - Yeah, got a brick of weed. But all of it is a little bit like, people really enjoying the school play. - Yeah, too much. - Yeah, 'cause I'm like, I would have been there like, sorry, they don't have raffles or tables full of gifts. - Right. - That you're raffling at a wedding. - No. - This is gone wild. - Totally. - A hundred percent. - It's a movie, it's a movie. - It's a movie of too many boys. And there's Debbie running around. She can't fix everything. She's like, that's not realistic. - It's Margarabi for sure, right? It's like, Margarabi for like Nancy, what was her name? Not Nancy, Tanya Harding. - Yes. - Margaro, just like a little bit trashy. - A little trashy, a little bad per me. Because actually, well, this is them from the day. So we have Debbie. - Oh my God. - In her wedding dress that she, that actually Beth Moon's wife found for her at the Salvation Army. - Hell yeah. Oh, that is so 80s, but I know it's 90s. Is that him in the background? Is that Moon? - No, that's actually thick in the background in the suit. - Okay. - Yeah, that's thick. Wow. - She looks so happy. - Because she loves tricking people. So, okay. - Yeah, that's Margarabi with a fucking. - Right? Yes. The wedding is convincing to the suspects that are slash guests that are there, especially considering the room is crawling with law enforcement who, unlike the unwitting guests, are carrying fire alarms under their suit jackets and dresses. - That they are. - And there's at least one local reporter that Moon tipped off, promising a big, exciting drug bust, because he wants this to go down, right? So, the wedding photographer is actually a photojournalist. - Amazing. - Right? Meanwhile, the wedding cake is just cardboard covered with frosting. - You can't. - Okay. - Okay. - All right. - It's a cost-saving measure that the police have taken, but the frosting has been professionally decorated with little bees because it's the inside joke of this as a sting operation. (gasps) - You guys. - So, they're much fun. - They're having fun. - Go to work. - They really are just like. - That's funny. - Let's ruin some lives and have a great time doing it. - Yeah, yeah. - The music provided for this wedding, the live wedding band is a bunch of dudes and the band is called S-P-O-C, and it's short for somebody to protect our crops. - Is that a real band, but they are here? - No. The crops being marijuana, all of the members of the band are wearing matching pot leaf t-shirts. - Oh, it's heavy. - But heavy-handed. - Very, very corny corny. They didn't care about the corn. Also, it's an inside joke because Spock's bought backwards his crops and the band are cops from different departments in the area who-- - They finally get to play their instruments. - And apparently they're fucking terrible. Everybody says so. - Good. - Yes, here's a picture of that band. - Oh, I need that. That's gotta be our merch. - I mean, but it's like-- - M-F-M. - It's so, sorry, but it's just like, hey, we're not cops. - We love weed. - And it says cops. - It says fucking cops on it. (laughing) Like, a no-stone or would make go into trouble to make band shirts. - No. - No, and no band has ever made band shirts that they then all wear. - So Moon and Debbie invited about 40 people in their drug dealing and doing life. Only a dozen are so show up to those dozen that did. - That's such a pot head thing. - You can't invite-- - Yeah, it's exactly. It's just like, oh, it's all right. I meant to tell you. - The ones that are there are like, man, this is great. - Yeah. - So, everyone takes their seats. The ceremony begins. - Oh my god. - Debbie is walked down the aisle by her father who is actually an undercover cop. She's wearing a dress, as I said, that Beth found at the Salvation Army for $17. - Nice. How much in today's money? - $49. - $45? - Oh, so cool. - Oh, shit. - Yes, nice one. You knew that because it was about tribute. - That's true. I know how much shit is at the Salvation Army. - Also, Debbie's wearing a garter on her thigh that holds a small gun. - If she cries, then she gets bonus points. That'd be so good. - She's such a good actress. Just the one single tear. When they get to the altar, the minister who is actually Flint's police sergeant, come on, they'd recognize him. He's also in costume. So fake vows are exchanged and Debbie and Moon say I do. And once they do that, the band kicks off and with one undercover guest, later describing their performance as quote, "Absolutely horrible." - Okay. - Bung, cabung, cabung. It's like, you can just feel like the lack of rhythm. - It's a poca. - They can only do poca. So the booze is flowing. Everyone's having a good time. Now the food is served. And while everyone eats, undercover officers pretending to be friends and family of the bride and groom start to stand up and give fake speeches and toast to the happy couple. The wedding party even poses for photos. They do the whole thing. - Now, they're already there. Like just don't just do it. - Just get it over with. - But no, they're in the school play and slash. - Right. - Their first time improvising and they're having fun with it. - Yeah. - So now it's around nine o'clock. The band begins to play the song, "I fought the law and the law won." Right? - So I have to hand it. - That's the cue. - It's so funny. - No way. - Yes. - Oh my god. - A guy jumps on stage like he's about to give a toast, but instead he says, "Let's have some fun." And then he asks that all the undercover officers stand and make themselves known and the other guests start getting placed under arrest. - Whoa. - At first there's disbelief among the guests. One person starts laughing as he's getting handcuffed with an officer insisting that quote, "We were not kidding, we have a warrant for your arrest." End quote. In all 15 people are taken into custody that day and dozens of others that Moon, Debbie and Vic have been investigating will be arrested elsewhere in the coming days. So it's all part of the same thing. - So you didn't have to do the fucking lighting in the first wedding place. - Clearly was you guys blown up.
off some themes, right? As you can imagine, once news of this thing hits the papers, it's viral. 90s version of viral. Stories run with flourish. Like, there's an associated press article with the subhead that reads, quote, "Here came the bride, all decked in white, and a snubbed nose." Where's the editor? Can I talk to the editor, please? And a snubbed nose for a vault. No, but we're gonna shorten that up. The rhythm's off. There's no internal. Anything. Okay, so Moon, for his part, becomes the subject of a Detroit-free press profile the next year in 1990-01 when he finally retires. The reporter writes, quote, "His spirit and his health exhausted by two decades of undercover work, a legendary narc heads for the hills." No, it's better. That's way better. It was a different crime. It could be, "Here comes the bride," but it's not that though. It's not that though. It's, "Here comes the raffle." That's right. Wicks a pot, anybody? No big deal. It's like your cousin's wedding when they raffled off the weed. You remember, it's fucking weird, it's okay. Okay. Part of this to me feels a lot like when I was in college and I was a theater major. So being a theater major, it was all about like hanging out in the theater department and like, "Do you need me to do anything?" And what's up here? Perhaps being creative. Yes, you just wanted to be, you wanted to be identified as amongst these people. That's what I wanted. When you're new and improm that like UCB. Right. Then you're just like, "I guess I got to sit in a cafe and write up my suggestions or whatever." Nurse, but it seems to me that the energy with which they went into that, it was because they liked hanging out and doing it. They liked working on it. I think that is going to prove out to be true later. But please hold while I read you this part instead. And I tell you this, in 2015, Jeff Mace's article from the Atlantic gets optioned for film rights. Go into the chapel and you're going to get arrested. There it is. Stop thinking about it. Just keep on pitching when they come. Do you say them? Never mind. It's been stuck and turned around, but that idea, like the second the article came out, they're like, "We got to make a movie of this." Vince Vaughn? Whether this thing was successful by any measure, though, is tough to say because-- 15 people, yeah. 15 people who were basically pot smokers. There was not nice ones, it seems, because they came to a wedding. I know. The nice caring ones that were like friendships matter to me. Showed up. At the time, Flint doesn't have digitized court records. They're on the paper system still. It's 1990. The week that many of the cases from the arrests from the sting go to court, a tornado hits the area and the important documents are scattered to the wind. That's God. That's God saying fuck Nancy Reagan. Yeah. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. You're cool. Same God that got Moon out of his initial thing and God, his thing made to a misdemeanor. That same God was here just like enough of this. You had your fun. Yeah. Wow. You should have made a real kick. Decades later, Jeff Mesh attempts to suss out the number of convictions and details on what happened to those involved, but it's so murky because they don't have that actual paperwork. They should throw a funeral and have everyone who showed up at the I mean. Well, what's clear from the day reporting is that around 30 people are handed drug charges in connection with this investigation and this sting. It seems like very few suspects were given long or harsh sentences, most probably resolved them through plea deals and basically got to go back to their regular lives. Yeah. Vic will later say that some of the people they arrested took it all in stride, claiming quote, there were no bad feelings. Everyone thought it was funny. You got me. And such a cop attitude. Like they loved it. Here's a guy getting arrested and you can tell you can look at his face and see. Okay. It doesn't seem like he thinks it's all that. No, he looks shell shocked. That's Debbie and Moon. You know why? Because he wore a fucking acid. What are those jeans called? Yeah, acid washed a wedding. Acid washed jeans in a Freddy Cougar sweater. And look at the bride with the gun in her hand. That is a she pulled that right out of her thigh garter and said, how dare you smoke pot. And he's got a joint in his mouth. Moon's got a joint in his mouth. Moon's already lit up. That guy totally looks like he's like, uh, that's what I get for trying to be nice to people. I basically wrote here. I'd love to hear a 2026 interview with the arrestees to see how true that statement is. That's the podcast we need to hear. If anyone listening's dad or mom was in that sting, please email us immediately. Put it in the subject line. My favorite murder at Gmail. Read it on a hometown. It's going to get like a five alarm fire straight to the microphone. If we, if you want to tell us your side of the story, Atlantic writer Jeff Mason notes, though, that more importantly, quote, for all the drama and creativity involved, the operation ultimately didn't do much to improve the grim outlook of the city and its surrounding areas. And quote, so obviously the idea that we're going to clean up the streets, this all just kind of turned it into fun times and cookiness. And it's like, and you just arrested a bunch of people that were able to plea afterwards. In the years that follow and in spite of the war on drugs, policing culture, looming larger and larger, the scourge of drugs continues as the broader region of this part of Michigan is left to grapple with severe economic hardship. So basically, all of this is for not. For his part in the sting, Moon gets a $5,000 bonus, which would be worth about how much in today's money? $830. It's a $5,000 bonus. Not 100. $8,300. It's 12,000. $8,800. It's within an hour. Anyway, this bonus enables Moon to retire Gettys family, right? Yeah. Retire Gettys family together and go move back to North Carolina like he planned. In 2006, Lacey Moon Brown passes away at just 63 years old with his obituary reading quote, the moon shines no more in North Carolina. That's dramatic. His cause of death is unclear, but he was a heavy smoker. And who knows? There is one sweet weird side note that I was talking about before, which is that during the fake wedding, when Sergeant Vic Wasselition watches officer Debbie Williams coming down the aisle in her dress, in her Salvation Army dress, he realizes that night he has feelings for her. And he says quote, I couldn't let her go. They end up falling in love and eventually marrying. And as best as Marin can tell from her research, they're still together to this day. So my thing is I think that this idea where it was like it was four moon to get one last kind of like hooray for you and the papers. And then all the other stuff was like when you like hanging out with people. So you're like, yeah, we better get together and figure out that raffle tomorrow. Oh, right. It has that feeling. I wanted it to go on as long as possible kind of a thing. But they have a fucking cop band playing like you can't just have a DJ like normal weddings. That's so romantic. They had cops fucking I fought the law rehearsal. When did you know you were in love with mom? Well, when she pulled out that little pistol from her thigh garter and fucking up against the wall. And that's the story of the 1990 wedding sting. That was fun. Hey, we're not opposed to having fun on this podcast. If you have any ideas of how we could have more fun, please write it in my favorite murder at gmail.com or just comment on the Instagram. That's the only way I'll ever see like comments is if it's on Instagram. And the fan call. Yes, we can't go looking for it anymore people. We've been through so much. My brain is like, you know, I've like my eyeballs like a cartoon or filling up with. I just have those ones from like 2017 that I looked at one time and it's burned into my memory forever. The comments. Yeah, never, never. Why is it them? We don't know. We don't know. Sorry about your free thing. You don't like it. Go to get another free thing. You go. You're free thing. You know how many free things there are free to like. Oh, pine elsewhere. It's supposed to be political. You don't fucking know that. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an exactly right production. Our managing producer is Molly Smith. Our consulting producer is Kate Shellmbach. Our creative lead is Allison Agosti. Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes and our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Leonis Polacci. Our researchers are Marin McLashan and Ali Elken. Email your hometowns to my favorite murder at gmail.com and follow the show on Instagram at my favorite murder. Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeart Radio App Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix. Search for my favorite murder, add us to your list and hit the double thumbs up button. Goodbye. Cindy said I had to choose between the truth and my family and I had to choose the truth. Listen to season 3 of Burden of Guild on the iHeart Radio App Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome aboard season 6 of The Girlfriends. flight or fight, which takes place.
30,000 feet in the sky, a beautiful woman smiles and hands you a scotch, but you have no idea just how messed up her job actually is. It was the most sexiest job I think you could have. Until one day, a group of stewardesses spark a revolution that reshapes America. Listen to the Girlfriends, Flight or Fight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. They even meet Queen Elizabeth, but the millionaire duo are concealing a dark past and dastardly intentions. This is Royal Swindle, new episodes drop every Thursday. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
PodcastTranscript AI