#539 ADHD - Dani Donovan

Muunki pitäisi taas pestää auto. Karmikkoa puoa! Ei se o siitä kiinni! Mutta katsotaan tiistaisen taas luvatta sadeettä ja ei kakin on vielä teillä, jos me nyt peseenen joku itenkilät remäurista ihan suhta. Ja jos me ootetaan ni kohdankio syksy, hei kävin mielessä kuin kaidessa huomaa eroa. Ois alta! Haa! Helpomitehty kuin sanottu. Motonet! Motonet! Joo. Joo. Joo. Uuhon! Blinkalit tämä eikötoista tuntu teemme. Beten hullini takaisin tutkia perusulu ja teossa suljaiseen läuaisneet ashamedasta. Ehdolle sanoin yli malata Party關係 Tmudi juului tant meineukka. Ty Blend Oon että jotka oli laen keumedet yksi tingale, että olet johon laenkein, ja johon se on ollut seuraavaksi. Se on seuraavaksi, että se on seuraavaksi. Ja seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi, ja me olemme seuraavaksi seuraavaksi. Mitä videogame- tai netflix, tai johon? Seuraavaksi seuraavaksi. Tämä on tietyt koko ajan positettavasti vahvarmatiojen ja seuraavaksi, jota seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi. INTERPOSINGki riittää varmi Ellie Shadow Punnam이를. Tällä itse onnuclearadko, jos był havota kymmentt siinä. Ja jos entệnään impatientinkoihin, en ki obser Heti ella saretkoita sellaista. Se on bot���isillä encontran eri kishall Vaik Onnnussй Along. Lisäksi minusta me finishesом viriti sobii osheituen. That I know exist, but I have trouble getting in touch with and remembering. The negative ones are, and I'm lazy, and I'm a hypocrite, that my future is just going to be a shit show of depression and physical agony that I'm selfish, that I'm afraid, that I've been given countless opportunities, and I let him slip by, and one day I'm going to regret it deeply, and I'm going to be old and broke. How could you have a shitty day when those things are going through your mind? And so, some of the things that I texted my friend, some of the affirmations I texted my friend, I thought, "You know, why don't I read those on the show?" And so, this is. The affirmations I texted him the other day. I am worthy of love, not only from others, but from myself. My quote, "mistakes do not change my worthiness or loveability, rather they are opportunities to grow if I can detach from the shame long enough to see the beauty, or God, or the universe, or wherever you want to call it in them." God has things in store for me that I never could have imagined, and I will try to not judge the package that they come in. Since 2003, I have continued to work on becoming the man I want to be, and I can see my progress, and I am proud of it. This next one is really hard to say. I am talented. It feels so. Oh, it is hard to say out loud. I'm a channel for healing, and others, as they are in me. There is no problem too big for God to bring me comfort and insight in the midst of. I am teachable. I am not my mother, and I am not my father. I am not my accomplishments, or lack of them. It made me really uncomfortable reading that publicly. Every time I think, "Eeeh, you know, I've. I've reached the promised land, mentally and emotionally." There is always more work to do, and I think it's really healthy to not imagine a finish line, but just kind of go, "You know, where do I want to be today, emotionally and mentally? What am I going to devote my energy to?" We are sponsored this week, as always, by BetterHelp.com. Online counseling. I'm a big fan of it. I do it right from my recliner with Gracie, my dog, climb and all over me, interrupting. She loves to be on camera. She. She knows she strikes a really nice profile, especially when somebody is sitting behind her, saying things that are emotional and very private. That's how she helps out. If you've never tried online therapy, go to BetterHelp.com/mental. Make sure you include the slash metal part so they know you came from the podcast. And then if they have a counselor, they think is a good match for you. They will pair you up with one, and you can experience a free week of counseling to see if it's your thing. You need to be over 18. If you're not, they will direct you to teenconcelling.com, and then you can get the ball rolling there on getting parental consent and filling out paperwork and etc. etc. This is an awful moment filled out by mere muse, and she writes, "My 80 year old mother was being abused by my brother who lived with her. She temporarily moved in with me and got a restraining order that kicked him out. The court gave him a month to move out. His last day to legally be in her house was May 9th. Mother's Day." I just wanted to get the fuck away from my life. You know, I couldn't have felt any of the work. Greeth, guilt, shame. Why was it my boy or girl? There was a switch that gets flipped in my head. I'm supposed to be a girl. I experience being treated like an am. How can a just God? I have a vomit fetish. But humans do this to each other. Help! I fucking flew over the kukus nest. My wife's losing it. I thought it was all about me. I don't know what to do. I would have committed suicide if I could have watched my funeral. A polaroid I found of my mother, naked in a dentist chair. My body doesn't quite. I think I did eight days in LA County Tail. Fit how I see myself. What was it all for? Why are my friends dead? Everything that I did. There's a comfort in the scars for me. It was in service of OCD. You've already had all the paper cuts. Step away from the paper. It's really hard to see the picture when you're inside the frame. You know, it takes a larger view to see your life. Just actually have somebody listen to you. Yeah. And I got up and got my tooth and left. [laughs] I'm here with Danny Donovan. Who is a mental health advocate. You have a TikTok channel where you talk about ADHD. You do comics about ADHD. I have to say your stuff is great. It's so informative. I was watching some of your videos yesterday. In particular, the things that people don't know are often associated with ADHD. It blew my fucking mind. [laughs] I'm glad that you know that I'm allowed to cuss on here now. Yes. Yes. Yes. Where do we start? Your based in Nebraska and your day job is a graphic designer, correct? My day job is now to make ADHD content. I was a year ago. I was able to leave my designer job because I was making enough on Patreon to pay my bills. I was like, "All right, let's do this." I did it. And then two weeks later, I was locked down for a pandemic stuff. I'm like, "Oh, cool." And then I thought about it. I'm like, "You know what? This happened in a good time because I think that I would have gotten a little anxious and panicky to do it otherwise." I think it really would have taken me a much longer time to get going on my own. The timing seemed really bad, but I think it was pretty perfect. That's fantastic. Congratulations. Thank you. When did ADHD first come onto your radar? And I love that we're talking about ADHD and not combining ADHD with ADD because I think a lot of times they get lumped up. together and I think it's important to to talk about the differences. In fact, maybe we could we could start there with some of the differences between ADD and ADHD. ADD is actually a term that is no longer being used in the DSM or anything. It's ADHD with hyperactivity or without. So ADHD or ADD was formally known as is now called ADHD without hyperactivity which is a mouthful. But I didn't I didn't use to I'm saying know that either because I definitely have people in my life who you know had been diagnosed with ADD. And so it's just one of the many I was a tidbits that I have been learning because this is like a process for me to of self-discovery because I don't have I love psych in you know high school and college but my training is in visual communication and design. So I do really get to learn so much about myself and about you know ADHD in general. But I can that was like a little side tangent but like I can talk about the differences between the two kind of types if that might be useful. So and then combine type which is what I have. And so ADHD with hyperactivity I was like not just has hyperactivity which can look different depending on the person and so for boys it might be a little more you know obvious which is why guys tend to get diagnosed younger because they might be the kid you know run and all over the place and climbing on stuff that they're supposed to climb on and constantly fidgeting and that sort of thing. And girls get missed a lot who might even have hyperactive type like because we just tend to be much more chatty. We're like very chatty distracting other people with like wanting to talk constantly and like fidgeting with our hair and it's it's a little more subtle ways that you wouldn't necessarily think of hyperactivity. And then the ADHD without hyperactivity is more I've got quite a few friends who have that and it's a lot of times with women who don't have hyperactivity. It's a lot more kind of day dreaminess forgetfulness, a lot of issues with an attentiveness and working memory that are still big parts of you know the other kinds of ADHD but it's just one where again a lot of times they get missed because they're quiet and people kind of think like if you're quiet and you keep to yourself even if you're you know doodling or struggling with social situations like oh they're not kind of acting up so they couldn't have ADHD and so a lot of those people do get missed and I'm just really happy about the fact that so many people are now discussing what it can look like in different people because there was really that one I would say stereotype for a long time. And later I want to pick up on some more of the ways that it presents itself or at least the comorbidity of it whether or not it's caused by ADHD but how often it shows up with with some of these other symptoms which it was so cathartic reading or I should say watching your tic-top videos. See there's there's three of them. I couldn't find the part one but I watched two and three things that we don't usually understand are associated with ADHD and I felt such a relief because so many of the things that you list are things that I hate myself for and it I just felt like something lived and me and I've been doing a show about mental health for 10 fucking years. What? What? Oh my god we'll get to that later. I want to talk about what it was like growing growing up for you what was kind of the as comfortable as you are talking about it the emotional temperature in your house and he kind of snapshots from childhood that you feel kind of represent your experience. I love I'm a very open book so I was saying nothing's really off limits with me. I did it interview with Vox with my husband about our sex life so like everything kind of goes at this point. And so childhood for me I was one of the like gifted kids which I'm now one of my next in the series of things I didn't know as ADHD related is about that like twice exceptional student thing where you have might have a disability or neurodivertency and you're also gifted in school so you might not get noticed because you're not visibly struggling you're getting good grades to the point that you know my fifth grade teacher my mom asked my teacher do you think she could have ADHD and my teacher said oh no she can't have that she's too smart. Wow. And so I it was one where like it was wondered enough that you know my parents had kind of asked about it and people respect teachers and there are unfortunately I mean among teachers doctors there are still a lot of those stereotypes in that stigma associated with it and so I I did get good grades growing up and I struggled a bit more with the with the social aspect and with the perfectionism aspects of staying up late redoing stuff worrying that people wouldn't like what I was making a lot of like to the point that it's problematic like people pleasing behaviors and then a lot of like impulsivity and talking back I went to Catholic school for five years and priests do not like it when you correct them like I was definitely like a well actually kid and I was right and they just they don't like when adults don't like when you kind of point out things that they say that are incorrect especially coming from an eight year old girl and so but I've always found and this has been really interesting that's learning more about with ADHD is our I won't say general disdain for authority but like we don't like being told what to do and we don't have the same um say blind adherence to social norms maybe or authority figures that like other peers might have to where we're constantly like questioning like well why is it like this or like I don't like this rule so I'm just not going to pay attention to it and so I definitely was getting more in trouble for you know go into the bathroom during class and then putting the foamy hands soap underneath the blower and like making like a mess in the bathroom and picking dandelions and when I was playing golly and then doing cartwheels and missing when the other team was like actually coming down and then they'd score on me so there were like little things like that and now that I look back it's like uh okay it makes it been more sense now uh so how when did you begin to know that there was an issue that you where you felt different I mean you talk about the perfectionism and stuff like that and all the things that you just listed but when did you realize there was a name for this? Well the feeling different thing I definitely got from a very young age because I would I would get friends I would make friends and I would feel so happy to become part of a group and then they would just kind of decide that they didn't like me anymore and then I was annoying and that all of these little quirky things that they liked about me at the beginning they were tired of now and so I was losing friends a lot and it was heartbreaking to have to start over so many times and so that really took an emotional toll and I felt so different because people called me annoying my whole life like that is a really big trigger for me which I didn't realize until um so now fast forward to college or I was a freshman. Hold on one second what were the uh quote-unquote ways that you were found to be annoying? I was like I have stuff at entries in my diary about it but people I was like thought I was too loud um people thought I talked too much um not being patient enough to like wait my turn while others were speaking definitely just being really really silly to a point that it was um I didn't realize that maybe what I was doing was like socially unacceptable or um offend like I was I'm just a very blunt person and as a kid I didn't understand why people wouldn't say what they were thinking and I as an adult I see this too right or other people when they talk about kind of like having this mask up where everybody sees the like perfect side of them and I'm like I have not where did you get that? Where do I get this perfect looking mask where I can be like you know broken behind the scenes? I've just always kind of been up front with like this is me and this is who I am and that has some benefits now um but back in the day it was really disheartening to feel like people didn't like me for me like I was being me and like I felt like people didn't love me enough to make me like their first choice for anything I felt like I was always that like backup friend or that like second choice you know backup girl or whatever it was I just went a long time um not feeling good enough so that was that experience. So where is the line then? I don't know, this is probably a difficult question to answer. Between somebody who has ADHD and their impulses are related to that, and then somebody that needs to pay more attention to social cues and just be more polite. People finish their sentences because I know the struggle is there, but I think we also can't shirk our responsibility to be conscientious around around other people. I think that that's again a hard like I can't I'm not a doctor so I don't know you know diagnostically, but I do know even now I've been working on it like I have some friends a very close friend who told me very gently like hey I just wanted to let you know you have a tendency to interrupt me when I'm not done speaking yet and then like turn the conversation to something you know about you and like I just wanted to let you know that you did that and like that hurt to hear but like it was good because I was like I was not doing that on purpose. Thank you for telling me that is something I can work on and I have been working on and like she has told my dad you know and her like other people in my life had told me like I have noticed that you ask more questions and you just listen more and it's noticeable. But like prior to that if people were annoyed at me for something like that they didn't tell me right so I didn't know to be conscientious of that behavior. And so I think that the point where it's more problematic on the you know ADHD disorder side of it is when it happens so frequently that it is having like negative impacts on your life. It's not like an occasional thing. It's like a part of how you operate and it has nothing to do with like how well behaved you are because like I was a very well-behaved kid actually. I didn't get other than being a smart-ass like I didn't really get in trouble for a lot of things and my parents friends always commented on how well behave we were. But again a lot of that was due to just me being so afraid of people not liking me that I wanted to stay true to myself but I wanted to do what it was going to take to like make them like me. And so sometimes that was through excessive generosity which I learned from my dad. Sometimes it was you know through just again asking lots and lots and lots of questions because people love to talk about themselves and I figured that out eventually and there are just little things that over the years I picked up on to try to like make myself more likeable I guess. And so now I'm I've got to quite a bit more of them just built into my default settings but it definitely was a learning process not just of a I'm saying manipulative sort of like how can I get people to like me so I can like sneak in and be you know be a different person it's just like I feel like I don't get to do myself justice because people don't give me a chance you know. And what a good friend for saying that and saying it lovingly to you that I was going on my soap box about the fact that intimacy begins with the willingness to have difficult conversations but saying it in the right tone at the right time with the right words which may be very difficult at first but and also a great example of you taking responsibility by taking it in and trying to be conscious of it and trying to change. I mean I don't think anybody expects perfection in a friend but what what we do expect is that for that person to take in what we've said and to try to change to to put some effort in rather than just blowing it off and saying oh you don't get me or well I have ADHD and it's impossible for me to change. Yes oh I have such a now it's still so difficult because it is ingramed in my like impatience and my impulsivity and the not wanting to forget what I was going to say thing and so I've you know say developed a couple of coping skills where I like I'll cross my fingers and like lock the thing that I was going to talk about like in heat like I'll visualize it in here and that like helps me kind of bring it back. A lot of times when I interrupt someone I'll like interrupt them and start talking and then I'll stop and I'm like sorry I interrupted you what were you saying like and I'll like reach re-get it back on track like I have gotten so much better at doing that and one of the things that helped so much and I hate I hate saying this because when people used to give me this advice I rolled my eyes when people are like you should try meditating I'm like you should try meditating. I was not I don't want to hit be dippy bullshit like I'm fine I don't that sounds horrible and I wouldn't like it and this that and the other thing and then I got that you know headspace app and I actually sat down and started doing it and realized pretty quickly that one of the skills that it teaches it's not just about like sitting there trying not to think about anything which is what I thought it was it's a lot more of like focusing you know on your breathing or focusing on a visualization and just noticing when your mind gets off track and like gently bringing it back and then you notice when it gets off track and you gently bring it back and like that ability to notice when you're off track or notice when you're not doing the thing that you planned on doing that skill from meditation has translated to me being a better listener by noticing when I'm interrupting has helped me stay on track a bit better you know not perfect I still have ADHD but like been better about staying on track when I'm trying to do tasks because meditation has helped me to hone the skill of awareness of that mindfulness which again I I always like to tell people that I was skeptical about it so they believe me when I'm like it's not BS like it's it's really a thing it really is and it introduces you to your thinking patterns and what it is that you're you know maybe obsessing about or worrying about because you're you're sitting and you're not doing anything else and you'll notice oh I've been obsessing about dying poor and alone for the last 15 minutes and it then you can address that issue and and go well what to walk and I you know maybe I should call somebody up maybe I should make a therapy appointment you know maybe I should try to do something nice for myself instead of catastrophizing yes well and we have it was that thing where I realized we don't spend especially with ADHD I don't spend any time just like sitting and not doing something and not on my not just not on my phone but not fidgeting with something or you know consuming so creating something or consuming something like those are my two big modes right and there's very little space for just being and so getting better even about like trying to make even if I'm not actively trying to meditate to you know sit and look out the window for a little while or you know and thoughts just come and there's thoughts that come that would have never you know occurred it's sort of like when you're taking a shower right and you've got this because it's just this time where other than you know washing yourself you're not doing anything else and so I think there's really that clarity that comes from taking a breath but I know that's really hard for us with ADHD because sometimes we're like but I don't that sounds boring I talk about the the to do list and how that kind of fits into people with ADHD both people with hyper activity and people without that is okay my brain's like I got eight different directions I could take this let me let me see um so well let's start with this I I I am somebody who struggles to get the to do list and much like the comic that you wrote I sit there and I beat myself up and and and I want to do the to do list but it's like there's a wall between me and it and instead I'll play a video game and then I'll hate myself and I'll say I'm not doing life right and you know everybody else is productive and why am I such a piece of shit yes yes that is that is the feeling the thing that I've I've learned now about this and about myself being a perfectionist is take shit off your plate that you have no intention of doing like anytime soon like don't have anything on your to do list that you just like don't want to do and technically like don't have to do right now like you can always add it back later but I have a tendency of making my to do lists very long and not enough to get done in a single day and so I had read as in tools of Titans by like Tim Ferriss. what he talked about instead of thinking like, what are my just necessarily like priorities for today? It's like sit here and think about right down the top things that are making you anxious right now. Write down a list of things that you've just been thinking about a lot or thinking I should be doing this or and then you kind of look at them and pick one and go, if I took an action on this today, if I made a step in this direction, how good would I like feel about myself at the end of today, right? Like how proud or accomplished would I feel? And like that has actually been a really good game changer for me of of picturing and visualizing the end of like how good I'll feel and even maybe visualizing running through all of the steps that it will take to get me from here to there and like just you know put it on fast forward in my brain and a lot of times I go that's actually not going to take that long. Like it makes it so much less intimidating when I can think through the steps and a lot of times I'm like, oh that's that's not that many steps and then there are other times where I have a item on my to-do list and I do a visualization run through and I go this is a lot of different things like this needs to be more things than just this one line on my to-do list. I need to break this down because I might not get through all of this today. And so I originally had kind of been doing that more and then now my kind of go-to strategy instead of a to-do list because I would still get down on myself about not completing those things that what I do now is I will actually make a list of 10 empty circles or boxes and then I will after I complete something I write it out and like check it off and I just have to do 10 things. And so I some a lot of times those things can be small you know it can just be like checked emails for 15 minutes or you know some things are big some things are small you know made an appointment and so if by the end closer to the end of the day I'm like oh I still have four left I will like pick four very small things just so I can like because I really like getting to that 10 and so it's sort of like a I'm say to dial list or I call it like should I did list where I just keep a track of the things that I've done instead of telling myself what to do and then trying to execute on them I just think about what could I do and what kind of kind of like write down. So it's equivalent of like when you're making it to do list and you write the stuff you've actually already done and so that you can cross it off. Right yeah so I could put down the staring out the window with my mouth open thinking about what might have been. Yeah yeah that's what I have my I used to just keep a list of everything I did it you know and it would say took meds you know as they took shower like made lunch at home like anything you know put laundry away all of this stuff because I would really underestimate how much I got done in a day because I only focused on well I didn't get any big tasks done but I look at it and I'm like okay well I posted a tweet and I filmed a new TikTok draft and I you know put away some dishes and I did all of these like little things that my brain doesn't it doesn't like click that that is something that gets to count you know because it wasn't like well I didn't make my physical therapy appointment so today was a bust yeah yeah a much like your video I had a thought in my head of what I was going to ask it was a burning burning question and within three seconds I totally forgot what it was um so we were talking about to do lists um I had another I'm not sure if you saw my TikTok about the dice roll thing that I do so I also when I don't know what to get started on first I will pick like three things and I'll take I've got a 20-sided dice and I will or die and I will write you know a kind of weighted thing so do one to five check email six to 15 um work on sketches 16 to 19 um you know read two chapters of my new book and then it would be like 20 video games like I will always 20 and that 20 is always like a procrastination thing that it's pretty much like you rolled a 20 you don't have to work right now um that was my question yes play yes talk about play and uh I I struggle with what I feel like is playing too much and not getting enough done and how do I know is probably a difficult question for you to ask since you don't know me personally but how do I know when I'm being lazy and how do I know when I'm just being good to myself and having fun laziness is not a real thing laziness is not a real like it has taken me until like this year to like start to get this through my head like laziness is a term that is used to shame people in a society where your worth is supposed to be based on your productivity and would it be fair to say uh rather look at it at where your passion is directed yes I think that for me um I got it you got to do stuff when you've got the energy right and I think that for me trying to force myself to be productive when I've got an empty tank is so hard especially now I'm working for myself and that lack of structure was killing me because technically nothing is do technically I can play video games all day and like out because of patreon like I'll still make money I can bet you know so in some ways it's like oh cool I could just do that forever but I feel unhappy not getting things done and so what I've learned to do is finally after you know almost a year of not having any kind of strategy I'll kind of like right pick a theme for that week and I will work Monday and Tuesday I will work my ass off like I will work eight anywhere from like eight to ten hours maybe sometimes more but like I'll get like full days of doing everything in and I'll schedule a few things on you know Wednesday Thursday Friday but for the most part they're pretty chill days and then I have the weekend so I have two days of really hard work um followed by three days of like uh like could work if I want to definitely don't have to and then I have the weekend and so by the time it comes back to Monday I am full of energy and excited to be productive because I've had pretty much five days to recharge and then I can so I always say right I'm a sprinter not an endurance runner right so I think that like when you have a productive remote evasion spurt because we do um get those ways I really do try to um get I was saying as much done as I can but I know that sometimes that can lead to us then burning ourselves out and then the cycle kind of you know continues to repeat but um uh for the for the first time in I don't know eight years I started taking vacations I had not had taken a week off from doing the podcast for the first I don't know seven or or eight years out and it felt so amazing to to do it and I didn't realize that my battery was low and because it may not take a lot of time to put the the podcast together there's a lot of thought involved whether I'm doing something actively or not I'm thinking about it and to have a month off to say I don't need to think about it it was a revelation for me and for anybody who's out there struggling to try to work less especially uh workaholics and I do not consider myself to be workaholic but I mean friends friends who are and what would you what would you say to them in addition to what I've just shared um oh my gosh I did the same exact thing where I definitely had a thing a thing to say and then I dropped it for a second but I think that getting that knowledge right about how your own brain works and how you can make it work for you right so I kudos for you like doing a podcast every single week because that consistency of doing something on a weekly basis consistent is just so hard for me like it I feel like I lose every time I keep it up a little bit and then you know I get so angry at myself and so now what I've started doing is again I'd work best in sprints and so when I said that like I have a theme week I will have a whole week that's like TikTok week and all I do that week is like script TikToks film TikToks you know and caption TikToks and now and then the next week is sketch week for comics and I'll just sketch a bunch of comics and now I have enough content that I can post spread out my posts but I don't have to make a sketch every week I don't have to make a TikTok every three days. I don't have to because I started finally like kind of building up stores of, you know, back, back logs of things, so that I can really focus in on one thing, on making a bunch of those one things, and then spacing them out until I've got the energy to go back and work on a bunch of them again. Because the spacing out of, okay, well, every week I need to film a TikTok, I need to make a comic, and I need to do this like that task switching versus like putting all my energy and focus and passion into one sort of project. It's a lot easier for me. Talk about some other ways that ADHD shows up or it's buddies show up and people had no idea that they're connected. So I've heard it kind of talked about that, because a lot of people with ADHD have anxiety and depression, and sometimes they only get treated for those things because people, those are stacked a lot of times on top of underlying ADHD symptoms, and people don't realize that the reason you're anxious and the reason you're depressed is because your ADHD is not being managed well. And instead of just trying to treat the anxiety on its own or trying to treat just the depression on its own, it's got to be this like holistic thing, right, where you see how they kind of play into each other. And so learning more about ADHD and about even I have bipolar 2. And so it's difficult sometimes to tease out like what is ADHD and what is bipolar 2 because there's so many overlaps or what is anxiety from my ADHD versus my panic disorder. Like there is it's kind of a gradient spectrum. It's not like these cut clear lines in the bad diagram kind of thing. And so I've learned so much about the underlying anxieties that are repetitive. Like repetitive cycles that I can notice, wow, I do this to myself a lot. And it always makes me feel bad. And it's always, and then I forget, I forget that I've done this like 60, 60 times, right? I forget that I've been here. I have like a meltdown because I feel like I'm not being productive enough and I feel like I've wasted all my time. And I'm so angry and upset at my lack of time management skills. And then a month later, I will have the same breakdown, but I'll like forget. And then I kind of go back and look through my journals. I'm like, I have been having the same problems every year for years. And I haven't really put together like what are the core reasons for why I end up trapped in this cycle. And a lot of times it has to do those high expectations we put on ourselves. And so one of the things that has helped me manage my anxiety and help me with those to do list is by setting the bar so low, so low that it's like making it difficult, it was a difficult to fail. And so, you know, for me, where I wanted to get started exercising again, but it felt really, really intimidating. Because I'm the type of person that's like, well, if I'm going to exercise, I have to do it for 30 minutes or it doesn't count. Right. And so I had like a little whiteboard, you know, keep track. And I'm that person where like if you miss one day of your new habit, it's like completely ruined to crap. And I'm like, forget this, I'm done. I missed one day, everything is over. But I made it so that I have to do two minutes of exercise, two minutes that is the, and if I've done two minutes, I get to cross off the little, you know, check mark. And most of the time I end up doing more than that, but it's the idea that like I, I'm, you know, I'm, I succeeded if I did this very minimum, minimal thing. And so I think that learning that the anxiety of not being productive and not getting done what I wanted to do versus like getting my list of things I want to do smaller and then celebrating and being excited when I do more than that. Right. I'm, I, there are probably people listening who have a really hard time being kind to themselves. And that voice, whether it was instilled by a parent or a society that are rolling their eyes and saying, you're just making excuses. And into those people, I would say our goal in life is to feel contentment and peace. And at some point, we need to bring some degree of acceptance into what is rather than having this idealized version of ourselves that we have probably never met since we were a kid. So what just makes scientific sense in your choice of how to view yourself and to, to look at what you did that day, I think the obvious choice would be to say, Hey, this is my reality. This is the type of person that I am. And I don't want to be on my deathbed saying, Oh my God, I just realized I'm a tyrant to myself. Yeah. We are so, I would say mean to ourselves in a way that we would never allow anyone to talk to our friends. And so it's definitely the self acceptance is the hardest part. It's the part that I'm new at, but I'm finally getting to this point. I tweeted it the other day that I'm like, I am proud of who I am. Like I am actually proud of who I am. And not just the good parts that I thought were impressive. The other people were proud of. Like I am proud of the strength it takes to struggle, you know, that life is harder in some ways, you know, than it is for other people. And yes, there are people who have it, you know, as I considerably worse than me, but that doesn't mean that my struggles aren't real, right? And so for me, the like self acceptance has come from again, that self awareness that I learned through, you know, mindfulness, self awareness, not just when I'm getting distracted, but self awareness of those repetitive thoughts of those cycles that I fall into. And what triggers that cycle, what triggers those thoughts? Like is there a thing that I can point at and be like, this is what, right? So for me, realizing the thing that kicks off this, I suck, cycle is missing a day, right? And so my ADHD coach telling me like, look, you have ADHD, the only consistent thing in your life is going to be inconsistency. And for at first, I was just like, man, what is, you know, what does that even mean? And then it kind of hit me. I'm like, that is so true. And if I can learn to make that my expectation that anything, I'll say, I try to do any strategy, I pick up any new thing I'm trying to get myself to do, I'm not going to do that thing forever. I somehow always think like this will be the thing. This is a trick that will make me drink water every day forever, you know, and not the reality of like, I'm going to do this for hope as long as I can. And then I'll probably drop off. And then, but I know that I can always come back like I just because I'm, you know, I made a video on how to be a morning person. And I was getting up at 530. I'm not a morning person. I was getting up at 530 for weeks. And I'm so proud of myself. And then I just stopped. And I was so upset, right? Like, I'm not a morning person now. And Dusty's like, you're still a morning person. You're just not getting up early right now. You will again, when you feel like it, but that doesn't make you not a morning person. And so I think that that framing of how you view yourself and that accepting of, you know, what your brain is actually like instead of trying to imagine this future where everything is easy for you. Like, if I just found a little key, everything will click into place and my life will be easy forever. Like, that is not reality. And so I've spent so long in, I was a, and time in therapy, crying, realizing like, this isn't fair. It doesn't seem fair that I have to work twice as hard and feel like I'm getting half as far. Like, it's not fair. I didn't do anything to, you know, say, deserve this. Like, I, this isn't my fault. And, and really understanding that it's not my fault. But like, you got to learn to play the hand you got dealt. Yeah. And, and the hand you got dealt does have some cards in it that are up sides. I'm not a big fan of, you know, the calling rebranding ADHD as a superpower. But like, you can definitely look into what it is that makes you special. And what strengths you have that other people might not have because no, I don't have discipline. But I am the best brainstormer you will ever have on your team, you know, and some of those ideas might be sky high. But like, other ones are innovative. Like, we're innovative people. And so, we can't be everything. And so I kind of did have that final realization of like, if I, I guess, if I had to pick between being like disciplined and more, I was like, and boring and doing the same thing every single day and spending hours and hours and hours every week cleaning my house instead of having fun. Yeah, you know what, I'm spending my time where I want to. And a lot of times that means doing fun stuff that I feel like doing at the expense of of things that I feel like I should be doing, but I get to have a lot of fun. So. - Yes. One of the things that acceptance, I think, can have a byproduct is, it begins to show us the myth of more, the myth that if I can just accomplish this thing or get this thing, I will receive the feelings that I'm looking for, contentment, et cetera. And there's a saying that it's, the goal isn't to get what you want, the goal is to appreciate what you have. And to some people that may sound like you're giving up, that you're lazy, but aren't we looking for a set of feelings that tells us that life is successful? It's so much easier to change how we feel about our place in the world than it is to try to change the world around us so that we can, we can feel something. Does that make sense? - Yeah, I really, that really resonates with me and it's true that the world, I'm say, isn't designed for us, isn't as accommodating to us as, you know, it could be. And I've seen, I think it was Hank Green, right, how to video about how if suddenly in the world, 90% of people were able to fly, right? Like people just now have, I was a mutated and 90% of people can fly. And if you're in the 10% of people who can't fly, now you are disabled, like you're disabled. And that disability and is a, I wanna say societal construct because your abilities are just being measured up against the majority of people. And so the people who say, can't fly might be feeling, right? Like I'm not, I could learn too if I wanted to, like I'm gonna spend my life trying to be one of those people instead of being who I am. And so really trying to, trying to fix myself, like I was really a self-help guru of like, if I read this book, if I learn, I can learn how to be happy and I can learn how to throw them habits and I can learn, you know, and all that stuff has helped, but the kind of mountain atomic habits had like this really great example of how a lot of people set goals on the top of the mountain and think, like I've got to climb there and I can't be happy until I'm there. And then he goes, but even if you do get there, as soon as you're there, it doesn't keep you happy forever. And then you kind of regress and then you pick another mountain to have to climb and you can't be happy and tell you're up there. And it's more about being, I was a happy where you're at and doing things and growing because you love yourself and not because you hate yourself. - There was something that Prince said about fame and success, he said, I've been to the top of the mountain and there's nothing there. - Yeah. - Which I just thought, wow, I wish everybody could hear that. - Yeah, well, you even with being a social media creator, right? You think I hit 100,000 followers on TikTok and like then I'll, you know, be happy. And then that milestone hits and you're like, oh my gosh, I did it. And then, you know, and then it's the next milestone and the next milestone. And you're just, it becomes really easy to get hung up on even like the numbers, right? Of like, well, this many people, even the TikTok can be a total lottery. But this one didn't do as well as this one. And so now even though I liked this one when I post it, people didn't like it. And so does that mean that it wasn't good, you know, and then starting to doubt something that I had been happy with because that external validation, you know, sometimes I get so reliant on that. And my self-worth was really based off of what other people thought of me. And so I really think that played into not accepting myself because other people, I felt like we're always wanting to me to be more, wanting me to step up, wanting me to be better than I was. And I believe that, like I believed, right? Like you have to change yourself to make people love you. - Share some other, if you can think of it, some other ways that ADHD presents itself or some symptoms that are often associated with it. - I would say for me, I really thought for a long time, only I only thought about ADHD in the context of school and work and like what it looks like, how productive you're able to be at work. Are you late or on time? Are you getting your homework turned in on time? Are you meeting that, like that kind of stuff? And I didn't for the longest time realize what a big impact it has on every aspect of your life. Not just, you know, from school and work and friendships and relationships, but like your home life. And I didn't realize, right, that struggling with doing laundry is an ADHD thing because it's, and once you think about it, you go, that makes so much sense because it's a bunch of tasks switching, everything is like spaced out. Like it's a timing thing, you got to remember to do it. And then if you don't remember to move it from the washer to the dryer, now your stuff is all mildewy and you've got to do it again. Oh, I forgot it in the dryer. Now everything is all wrinkled. And then, oh, even if I did dry it, then I didn't, you know, I got it in the hamper and brought it upstairs, but I don't have the energy to fold it. And now it's, you know, not folded. I, well, whatever, I'll just pull clean clothes out of this hamper and then eventually dirty clothes get mixed in and you don't know what's clean and what's dirty. And like, that seemed like something that only happened to me, which was so like ridiculous to think that I would like had any kind of solitary experience with this, but talking to other people where a lot of care tasks, a lot of, you know, not just laundry, but like keeping your place clean and getting them activation energy it takes to clean dishes right away. So many of us have, you know, moldy coffee cups all around our place. Then we see them and you think to yourself, I should clean that. I should take that downstairs. And then you don't. And you, and you might see it every day and you might think to yourself every day, I should move that. And or stuff that's like blocking your way that we just like walk around instead of moving. And there's just so many little things like that that aren't so much, I don't want to say like attention-based so much as yeah, that activation energy, that motivation that step between wanting to do it and actually getting started on it. Like that is the gap. And for me, I'll say even if I back when I thought, you know, being lazy was like this thing that, you know, you could either say be lazy or not be lazy. And thinking about it more in terms of like, well, lazy people don't beat themselves up constantly for being lazy, right? Like lazy people don't sit around like wanting, wanting to do things like wanting, like wishing so badly that they could get their butt off the couch to go clean the kitchen and thinking about it or like laying in bed and thinking, I didn't brush my teeth, I should get up and go brush my teeth. Okay, get up, just go brush your teeth, you know, and by the time I'm just sitting there, laying there thinking about brushing my teeth and then I don't get up and it would have taken me less time to just get up and go brush my teeth. And now I'm laying there and I'm like, I'm such a crappy person, I don't take care of myself and like hygiene, hygiene like that, brushing your teeth is a thing that is hard for people with ADHD. And it's, I felt so ashamed to talk about it 'cause it makes me feel like a gross person. It makes me feel ashamed like other, I didn't know other people have a hard time with this. I thought it was just me. And so there are so many of those little pieces of ourselves that we try to hide from other people and think are just our own experiences. And there's so many of us, so many of us out there. - One of the things I saw in your videos that was a revelation to me is the ability to hear things talk about that. Or I should say struggles with hearing things, asking people to repeat. It blew my mind and it was playing so much. - Yes, so I had the, I love making that things I didn't know were ADHD related series because there are all videos about these just like mind blowing moments when I realized that there was a reason for why I did stuff. That I didn't, you know, know had a name. - And by the way, where do you find out this information? - I'm trying to think. I go. - Google stuff a lot. - Like a kid. - I Google stuff all the time and then do a lot of research. And so I see, yeah, I was like, I just, I and I had a thing about this yesterday on Twitter where like everything in my tabs is just me googling, I was like symptoms, but like trying to find out if there are reasons for things. And so I stumbled on auditory processing disorder. It actually might have been on a related article on Attitude Magazine, I think, because I think I saw like a quiz somewhere about it. And I took it and I'm like, oh my God. All right, well these are, you know, so I'll just mention it for any listeners who might not know what we're talking about. The auditory processing disorder has so much to do with like how your brain is able to hear an interpret language. And so it's like this processing kind of issue where if my husband has the TV playing and it's something I haven't seen before and he starts talking to me, I'm like, I have to stop it and pause it to listen to him speak because it's so distracting that like I can't hearing two things at one time. Is it just, it's not hard for me to just listen to him? It is like distressing to my brain. And if I am in some sort of like really noisy environment or like repetitive noises or very like loud noise, like loud noises like fire alarms hurt my ears. We have such issues like meeting things repeated, saying what or not being able to remember verbal instructions. And so there's just a lot of things that actually, come together and have a meaning and have a name and it's just so powerful to be able to have, say have a name for it the same way that I did one on body-focused repetitive behaviors, which was I think my part one for that series, which is about things like picking at your skin and picking at your scalp and compulsively popping zits and you know biting nails and even like picking your nose and cracking your knuckles that like all of these, I get the urge to do it and now I have to do it because if I don't, it's like physically uncomfortable. Now that I'm thinking about it and I have to scratch that itch pretty much or else I'm gonna obsessively want to do it. And then once you do it, you feel a little bit of sat, you know satisfection and but then it goes away and you repeat that behavior. And I found out that that was a thing and how comorbid it is with ADHD, you know anxiety OCD and then the sleep phase delayed sleep phase syndrome and there's just all of these things that really, they felt like light bulb moments similar to when I found out I had ADHD right where you see the list and you go, "Oh my gosh, here's a new list." - Yes, talk about sleep and how long you sleep when you get up and talk about the relationship between ADHD and sleep. - I sleep so crappy. I used to, well growing up, I was, I'm still am, but I was the girl that we have sleepovers and I would stay up until 3.30 and then we'd sleep until like 12.30, like that is my, if I get to pick my sleep schedule, that's three to noon. That's pretty much what I would do. And so then I always had such a hard time being awake at school, especially at 8am, like I would be the person like following a sleep in my first class of the day. And so then in college developing like a caffeine dependency, even in school or when I was at work, I was 16 and I would have to take caffeine pill over the counter caffeine pills at 16 to be able to stay awake for my restaurant shift that started at seven and then by the end of the day it'd still be so wired, I'd have to take a sleeping pill to fall asleep and then I have to take a caffeine pill in the morning to wake myself up from being groggy from the sleeping pill. And I was 16 doing this and no, my parents did not know about it. It's all over the counter stuff I was buying, but I was trying to right like medicate that like sleep issue. And now I've had a little better, say better luck with it, but the last like five and a half months, I've had really bad insomnia and not the type where you just can't fall asleep, but the type where I fall or wake up four times in the middle of the night and can't get myself back to sleep because then I start thinking like, oh my gosh, am I gonna be able to fall back asleep or what was I dreaming about or you know, just it's really difficult for me to not get really frustrated by that. And so now I've started on some anxiety medicine which has like helped a little bit with the sleeping, but getting up in the morning was such a struggle for such a long time. And people with ADHD have really disordered sleep. Like we will be, I'm all over the place. There are times where I go to bed at 10.30 and wake up at seven. And then the next night I will be going to bed at three and getting up at 10.30. You know, and then there are nights where I go to bed at three and I get up at seven, you know, so I'm getting all these different amounts of sleep with different sleep start times and end times and it's just so dysregulated. And my circadian rhythm is so off, but it's really common for people with ADHD to have sleeping problems and sleeping disorders. - Anything else you'd like to share before we wrap up? - Oh, I'm like, I got so many things. (laughing) But I just really want to take a moment to, you know, thank you for having me on here and how happy I am that there's such a thriving ADHD community now online and that there are so many contact creators who are able to put their experiences out there, be very vulnerable and authentic because there are so many people that right need to hear that message. And so it's just been amazing going from feeling like this was this shameful thing I didn't talk about with anyone to my entire feed is just full of people talking about this now. And it's so, and just seeing all of the comments are so like heartwarming and everybody, like it's such a wonderful supportive community versus like knowing what toxic other communities are kind of out there. This is like this really big kind of family and so I just appreciate you and anyone else out there who's creating content where we can have these conversations because we can leave the world better than when we came in and people like us can help be a part of that change. - And I also love what a great tool, community and human connection and vulnerability can be in it and it does help greatly with all the things that we've been talking about, the spiritual component of life is something that's so often overlooked and people look at it like, oh, it's new agey and I don't believe it in a dude in the sky with a beard. You don't have to believe in that but do you believe in love? Do you believe in positive energy? Well, then there's science to it. Connect to people, be vulnerable, be of service, find meaning and purpose in your life and to me, those are some of the greatest ways to stop thinking if I can get what I want, I'll be happy and instead I appreciate the life that I have and what I have and I feel contentment. - And that I am worth loving and that there are people who love me just the way I am and even if the only people in your life that get to see that side of you and that love you for who you are are internet strangers, it still gives people an outlet to be able to share and to be heard and to see themselves and others and to not feel alone because ADHD has been such a lonely experience for so many people and the biggest thing that I think is changing for people is realizing they're not alone, is realizing that they can stop beating themselves up so much and learn more about how their brain works so that they can begin to work on, not just to work on themselves in the sense of how to make themselves do more stuff but work on themselves in the sense of accepting that we are perfect the way we are. You can always get better because you want to get better but you are doing just fine even when it doesn't feel like you are. - Right and people can find you on social media on TikTok at the Danny Donovan, that's D-A-N-I, D-O-N-O-V-A-N and what is your website? - ADHDDD.com or you can go to DannyDonovan.com it forwards but the other one is shorter. - Danny, thank you so much. - Absolutely, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I was so nice to get her on the show. I hope you guys. You guys found that conversation as illuminating as I did. This episode is sponsored by Quince. Oh, baby, I love me some Quince. Majority of the t-shirts that I wear are from Quince. I wear some Quince undies, I don't mind, admitting to you publicly. And I love the quality of their stuff, and I especially love the prices of their stuff. They cut out the middleman, that's how they do it. And they work with ethical factories. So get my ring. A ring? How about you go to their website? Yeah, get my ring, call the switchboard, ask Pearl to patch you through. Elevate your summer wardrobe, go to quince.com/mental for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada to that's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/mental for free shipping in 365 day returns. Quince.com/mental, and as always, we will put the link to that in the show notes. This episode is sponsored by Timeline. You know, most people think that strength, performance, et cetera, et cetera, comes from discipline or training just by itself, but there's a lot more going on. Muscle cells are especially just energy demanding thousands of mitochondria. Timeline developed mydo-peer of supplement containing uralithin A, which helps with cellular energy, muscle strength, recovery, and healthy aging. I'm a big believer in trying new things and being proactive and I've been taken to mydo-peer every day because I care about my body. Timelines clinically proven formula is now available at a new lower price, mydo-peer. Now starts at $99 with the exact same science in formula and you guys listeners can still get 20% off when you go to timeline.com/mental. And as always, we put the links in the show notes. All right. Again, a difficult thing to talk about. We could use some financial help with the podcast. You can do a one-time donation via PayPal. You could do a monthly recurring donation via Patreon for as little as $1 a month and any bit helps. You can access that. We're going to be doing a lot of work. You can access that. We also, I think we do Venmo or Zell. I believe Zell, yeah. So go to the website. Another thing that really helps the podcast is spread in the word through social media. You know, the more subscribers we have, the more advertising revenue we can make. And it all adds up. This is from the Ask Paul Anything survey. Kentucky librarians says, "I've been in adult children of alcoholics 12-step in recovery for 18 months. Good days out number bad. I meditate and exercise daily, have an amazing new love, and sober six years. I'm checking all the boxes and feeling great. Is this for real? I don't understand how long this will last for me to find myself. I'm not sure what you mean before you find yourself." Well, she writes, "Before I find myself." And then there's an "Oh, I don't know if that's an emoji." Or if it got cut off, but I just want to address the rest of what she said. And yes, it is for real. Recovery is for real. It's getting in touch with a part of ourselves that got buried when we were kids. We developed unhealthy coping mechanisms to survive mentally, and sometimes physically and emotionally. And then those coping mechanisms become adults stop working for us. They make our lives more difficult. And so it's a way of undoing those things and developing better coping mechanisms that dealing with our feelings, rather than numbing them, or projecting them onto someone else, or denying them. And I think you are experiencing the fruit of doing the work. So high five to you. This is. And the other thing I would add too is that it is. It's like washing a car. You don't wash your car once and then you're good forever. It's like the gym. There are spiritual, mental, and emotional muscles that we can develop that help us cope with life, and all the things that we can't control and help us get in touch with our moral compass to bring principle to action to the things that we do have control over. This is from. We had a lot of Sheaam and Secret surveys to read today. I don't know if I'm going to get through all of them, but this one was filled out by Mermaid. She identifies as a pansexual. She is in her 20s, was raised in the slightly dysfunctional environment. Never been the victim of sexual abuse and stuff happen, but I don't know if it counts. I have a vague memory of one day in kindergarten. I was lying down on the play bed and another kid under the sheets between my legs. I just remember feeling very embarrassed. I wish I could remember more. I wish people would give five-year-olds the trust to talk about these things. She's been emotionally abused. She doesn't specify what it is, but she writes six years later, I still feel dumb about letting it happen. Darkest thoughts. I have so much violence inside me. I sometimes even scare myself. Darkest secrets. I'm bisexual, and I cheated on my fiance. Sexual fantasies, most powerful to you. I fantasize about people taking advantage of me. I think it's because it makes me some type of irresistible. My brain is fucked up, and I'm gross. That's an answer to the question, how to sharing that make you feel. What if anything would you like to say to someone you haven't been able to? To my mother, you are almost always wrong. Out of all the people in my life that have made me feel awful, you have made me feel the worst. Also, I've had sex, lots of it. I love you. That would be a lot for your mom to unpack in that moment. Oh my god, thank you for sharing that though. That is a lot of really deep, deep shit. What if anything you wish for? I wish I could know if any of this is worth it. Have you shared these things with others? Yes, I have. I hated the people around me genuinely want the best for me, but never bother to ask what I want. How do you feel after writing these things down? I want a punch a wall, but I don't want people tomorrow asking me what happened to my hand, so I don't. Anything you'd like to share with someone who shares your thoughts or experiences? There's more to all of this. All of this is comfortable and known, but it is not you. You are a person with an issue. You are not the issue. So well said. And you deserve to find out what's underneath the anger because it's such an important question to say, what is driving our anger? Are we sad? Are we afraid? Are we frustrated? What is it that we're not getting that we want? Is there a way that I can helpfully pursue what it is that I want? So really complicated shit. And yeah, thank you for filling that out. Any comments to make the podcast better? Talk about getting validation without a diagnosis. I assume that you're talking about opening up to someone, whether it's a therapist or a friend or somebody in the support group. And I would say, practice what you're saying with, you know, I'm not looking for a diagnosis. I just want to feel seen and heard. And because a lot of times people who are natural problem solvers, fixers, et cetera, et cetera, think you're looking for an answer. And they're well meaning, but a lot of times it winds up invalidating what we really wanted, which is just for somebody to say, I'm sorry, you're hurting. Would you like a hug? I love you. This is from the Schamann Secret Survey, felt out by a woman who calls herself "Ellent Elephant in the Wulm Not." She identifies as straight. As in her 40s, who was raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment, ever been the victim of sexual abuse and stuff happened, but I don't know if it counts. She doesn't elaborate. She writes parental neglect. She writes that she has had positive experiences with the people that abused her. Darkest thoughts, wishing my parents would die. Darkest secrets. I haven't done anything and nothing has happened to me, but here is my secret. I am over 40. 40 and I'm a virgin. Yes, a virgin. No sexual encounters with anyone. And I do want it. Although I avoid relationships, but honestly, I don't have to work very hard to do so. I don't get asked out much. I think I am intimidating. I get compliments on my looks, so nothing crazy out of the ordinary going on. I'm now in early menopause and I can't tell you how defective it makes me feel that this point anyone whom I try to date would likely think there's something terribly wrong. It leaves me out of every part of society and I can't find anyone that I identify with. No one. It's simply unheard of. And of course, I don't want anyone to know. I would just interject as someone who has read thousands of these surveys. It is heard of and there are people like you. I don't have a mental illness aside from some anxiety and low grade depression. I would appreciate if anyone else in this world that's sane and holds down a good job and is pretty normal in every other way can possibly identify with this. Sexual fantasies most powerful to you. None really. Then she skipped a bunch of questions. Nothing to tell, really. I would disagree with that because I think your feelings are the thing to tell. That's what matters. Whether you're a virgin or not is not as important as the effect that the thoughts around it are having on you. Making you feel isolated less than. Those are really important things to work through. And I think it starts with opening up to someone. No different. Maybe more nervous. My phone number. Ha. Thank you for that. And I mentioned the forum earlier in the podcast. That might be a good place to go either create a thread. There might even be one on virginity. I'm not sure, but you could create one. And I know there are a bunch of different threads on sexual issues and intimacy and stuff like that. Took me a while to figure out you were reading surveys from your website. Maybe one sentence every time. Here are their surveys from the website. You might already do this. I just started listening. Also, on the website, a search engine for the surveys would be great. We are not able to use the search engine for the surveys. The surveys are created and accessed outside of the website. The link to go fill them out is on our website. But it's done through a survey monkey. And as of right now, I don't believe there is a way to do those. And I've actually disabled the ability for people to look at the surveys because I want to begin to give people the option to include their contact information in the event I want to put a book together around the surveys. This is from the love survey I filled out by Lady J. And she writes, "I love cleaning my ears with a cute tip after a shower. I swear that shit gets me halfway to an orgasm every time. I love when I am thinkingly by a brand of dish soap or kitchen cleaner that my grandma happened to use. So when I start cleaning my kitchen, the scent of the cleaning agents makes it feel like my grandma is in the room with me. I love it when I wake up in the morning and I'm surprised and delighted to find a clean house because I forgot that I stayed up until 2am anxiety cleaning everything. I love it when my cat walks on me and I know she's been sitting on the windowsill because the pads of her little feet are cool and refreshing from being near the cold air. Oh, that's such a great one. Those are all great. Yeah, the sense of smell is so closely tied to a motion. From Ask Paul Anything Survey, Charlie asks, "What are your thoughts on recording your therapy sessions for later reference for you to access?" I'm not sure if you mean reference. I assume you just mean personally and not to display on the show. And my thought is I would never go back and look at it. I just. I think the critical voice in my brain would just be like just picking it apart. This is a Sheiman Secret Survey filled out by a guy who calls himself failed rock star. He identifies as straight. His in his 40s was raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment. Never been sexually abused, but he has been physically and emotionally abused. My father was very hot-tempered. I feel he was fair in his delivery of discipline. He spank, but never used a tool to do so or did or did so when he was angry. Having said that, he was very cutting with his words, usually at high decibels, with a lot of cussing. Threats of aspeedings. You little motherfucker, you better stop or I'll fucking kill you. I remember hiding in the dark under my bed and hearing him screaming at my mother. If I find that little fucker, I'll kill him. Stuff like that. He was very short-fused and my parents fought a lot. He never hit her, but he hit everything else. Broken kitchen tables. Holes punched in doors. You know what I'm reading this? I just want to say that the threat of violence is every bit as damaging as the actual violence. Because your body is still reacting in the same way. Your central nervous system is freaking out. You feel unheard, unseen, unvalidated, less than human, you know, on and on and on. Um, he never, uh, uh, he once came crashing through the front window of the home we lived in. Holy fuck. If I saw that in a movie, I would be like, "Oh, that's a little much." Wow. He only ever hit me once, but I do consider it abusive. He once punched me square in the nose when I was 17 because he thought I was going to hit him. My father was a tough man to deal with at times. That is an understatement. And he positive experiences. And here, this is one of the reasons why I include this question after the abuse section. Because it highlights how complicated people are. Of course, my father was great. He loved practical jokes. He rough-housed with my brother and I all the time. Most of my friends in high school thought my dad was the coolest. Several of them told me how they wish their dad was like mine. We had a lot of good experiences, but when it was bad, it was horrible. I always wanted to be him, but I was also terrified of him and often fantasized about beating his ass. And also when they're, you know, when parents have both the dark and the light, sometimes when the parents are real narcissists, that light is just to go on display for people outside the home. And I think kids pick up that subconsciously. I think they begin to know this being nice to me, he doesn't do this when we're by ourselves. Darkest thoughts. During a situation, I'm not comfortable explaining. I once seriously considered taking a life and not just taking it but thinking of ways to do it to maximize pain before it was over. Fortunately, the situation resolved before I hit my breaking point. If not, I wouldn't be taking this survey right now. Darkness secrets. Someone very close to me is an addict who relaps several years ago. They owed their dealer a few thousand dollars. I paid their debt in order to ensure their safety. That secret I kept to protect the addict's reputation because this person holds a professional job and has their act together. They just stumbled for a while and lost their way for a minute. A dark secret? Maybe it's that I suppress my violent urges. There are many people I've really wanted to open up on that would never know I wanted to. Sexual fantasy is most powerful to you. I have jerked off while thinking of my stepdaughter. She would be shocked to know that because I've never treated her as anything other than my daughter. She's married with children of her own now and I'm certain she would be mortified. There's so many times I've bitten backwards to so many people. I feel like most people are not real. We all wear masks and we all have our scripted lines we stick to. There's nothing I would say to anyone specifically but I would like to be more true to who I am in everyday interactions without judgment and consequences for doing so. That makes total sense and I think the way to that is to begin to process the shit that we buried because it drives the bus if we don't process it. It is going to inform our actions because the feelings are so overwhelming. What if anything do you wish for? I wish I could make it all okay for everyone I care about in my life. It enrages me to see someone tighten the vice and someone else with impunity. It just makes me want to put my foot up someone's ass. And I would say start with making it okay for yourself by processing that shit. I mean, you went through a fucking horror show as a kid. And if you haven't processed that trauma that that you experienced, and there's so many great trauma modalities EMDR, semantic experiencing, talk therapy. My wife knows me inside and now we've traveled through some dark places together over the years and are still walking through it together. She knows my darkness with the exception of the stepdaughter thing. And I know hers. Thank you for sharing that man. You sound like a really good dude. With a with a wound that that would be awesome to start to heal and pay attention to. This is from the love survey felt out by Leslie. And they write, there's nothing I love more than hearing the click clack of my dogs nails on the kitchen tile. She comes to join me for bed. She always waits in the living room until I'm all tucked in trots into the room jumps up on the bed and makes me lift up the blanket so she can cuddle up with me under the covers. It's the best way to end the day. Oh, to I love that. And for me, it's my dog Gracie. And she also waits until she she hears that I've adjusted myself in bed and got my pillows how I want them. But she comes down the hallway, which has wooden floors, and it sounds like nine Clydesdale horses galloping. She weighs 20 pounds, but there's something about the the hollowness of the floors that then just the anticipation of her her jumping on the bed, it it just I fucking love it. This is the shame and secret survey filled out by a guy who calls himself busy. He identifies as bisexual. As in his 30s was raised in a stable and safe environment, never been sexually abused, not sure if he's been physically or emotionally abused, no positive experiences with people who perhaps abused him, darkest thoughts, I sucked a few dicks. I don't know if there's a way to keep track of the dicks that you've sucked. If there's a a dick sucking abacus out there, maybe nap now in our digital age. Dark to secrets sucking dick. Sexual fantasy is most powerful to you, eating another man's cream pie from my wife. What if anything, would you like to say to someone you haven't been able to? I'm sorry, it's been so long. What do you wish for money? Never. Better. Barry that shit. Oh, buddy. Oh, buddy, you know, I I just want to reread that that thing that you said, how do you feel after writing these things down? I feel better. Well, more more of that awaits you. And I think it feels even better, sharing those things we're holding inside with a with a safe person. I'll point out sound like a broken record. And if I do go fuck not only yourself, but everyone who is close to you, I'm talking you get the cousins over, you get the grandparents that have passed, you bring their pictures in, you put them right there on the mantle, the piano, whatever it is, you're in the backyard, you put it on the on the coffee table, and you all in unison, fuck yourselves harder than you could have ever imagined. This is from the Ask Paul Anything survey filled out by nuclear Gandhi. And he has, I've heard you talking about the game civilization. And I'm dying to know your favorite leader and victory type. Well, my favorite victory type, there's a bunch of different ones for people that aren't civ fans, it can be you know, you can win by having more culture than other people, you can win by being the most diplomatic country. Clearly, none of those are as fun as destroying them with weapons. And the for me, the key to winning a civ game is to get to the stealth technology as soon as possible, because you can fly huge distances on the map, and you can bomb people, and they can't shoot you down. And so I pick countries that have a lot of industry, and who advance quickly through technologies. And they tend to be the US and China. And you got to get some oil and you got to get some aluminum. And then late in the game, you got to get a uranium. And I can't imagine how boring that was to people that don't play civilization. This is from the shame and secret survey filled out by a woman who called the fucking love this name. Oh my God, as in generalized anxiety disorder, she identifies as bisexual. She's in her 20s was raised in a stable and safe environment, never been sexually abused. Yeah, I would not call this stable and safe. My mother called me things. And then the next day she says, how sweet you are. People at school, I hate hearing them say, I'm stress or kill yourself as a joke. Yeah, it sounds like that was your mom's half-assed way of trying to apologize telling you that you that you're sweet. Darkest thoughts, I want to do drugs or drink just to stop feeling emotions. I think occasionally about how to kill myself or other people, but I will never act on it. Darkest secrets, I watch porn to make me happy because it's the only time I do. Sexual fantasy is most powerful to you, having a girlfriend and making out on the bed. I have anxiety and depression. I'm bisexual and I want to kill me or people. I want help and meds. I want to do drugs and drink so I can stop the pain. What do you wish for to stop feeling this way? Yes, and they just took it nonchalantly. And I just say, I'm fine when I don't even look at how do you feel after writing these things down, the same. Anything you'd like to share with someone who shares your thoughts or experiences, even if you're not old enough to get help or you just can't or you can't just try journaling and listen to the podcast. Or you can't should have been a common comment there. That's why I'm just try journaling and listening to the podcast also express yourself through music. Thank you for sharing that. And you know, the thing about watching porn, it's such a there's such a great area because you know, to have a sexual release in and of itself is a healthy self loving gesture, bringing yourself pleasure. But porn can be a slippery slope because, you know, let's put aside the complicated topic of, you know, does it affect other people's lives? Are they being exploited? Put all that aside for a second. Is, are you escaping parts of your life that you would be better served dealing with? Things that you're feeling, people you need to have conversations with a support network that either is or isn't there. And after reading your survey, I was thinking it sounds like you don't really have much of a support network. And, and I think getting one would be really helpful for you, because porn is is not a great tool for dealing with overwhelming feelings. It's just, it's just, it's not enough. And it doesn't really solve anything in the long run. Now go jerk off. This is from the, but seriously, thank you for for sharing that. And this is from the Shaman Secret Survey as well. This is filled out by Savannah, who identifies as bisexual is in her 30s was raised in a slightly dysfunctional environment, never been sexually abused, been emotionally abused. I've always been heavy, but when I was a kid, my dad used to tell me boys don't like fat chicks. And between hearing that, and a boy relentlessly bullying me in the seventh grade, I never thought throughout high school any boy would like me, but fuck that shit, because at my heaviest, I met and married my husband, although I have lost and gained weight several times, I still struggle with feeling like someone is looking at me and thinking gross. Any positive experiences with abusers, I believe my dad is bipolar slash ADD. And because of that, I have several situations where he would be involved and do things with me, but then I would experience the complete opposite where you couldn't talk and had to walk on egg shells. Darkest thoughts. I want to be hot. I want to experience every sexual thing I can try. I want to do things I know are wrong, just to see if I'll get caught. Darkest secrets. I want to be wanted by men. For a moment I decided to give massages and happy endings for money. It didn't take long before I was doing everything. It was exciting to do this, and I feel like I was on a high. I met a client, fell head over heels, and left my husband for him, eventually getting into an open relationship with this guy and his girlfriend. Well they moved on Ohio two years ago. Since then I got back with my husband, but it's been a series of highs and lows. When I am up I feel like I can do anything and have very grandiose views acting like a fool. Last year I drank and was doing pills a lot, and really liked a married man I worked with. It was very flirtatious and even invited me over when his wife won on vacation, but because I drunkenly told her to co-worker I wanted to sleep with him, it then got around and I was the whore. It sounds like there's maybe some of your family's bipolar going on. Some of the stuff you described sounds a little manic, and I wonder if it wouldn't help to go see a psychiatrist to see if there's something that medication could help or some other solution or way to manage it. Sexual fantasies most powerful to you, public sex, I have fantasies where random people will beg for it, or just start making advances and I do it whether I'm into them or not. I have fantasies about having sex with famous people. I enjoy talking about it, I get turned on. If phone sex paid better I would be doing it full time. I would apologize to the man's wife I worked with because I kind of messed things up with them from a bit. My husband knows he's okay because we were in an open relationship at the time. Had you feel after writing these things down, I don't know. Anything he'd like to share with someone who shares your thoughts or experiences. If you're impulsive like me about what things will look like in the morning, would you want your Facebook feed to tell exactly what you did last night? If not, maybe don't do it. That is awesome. That's such great advice. That is such great advice. Thank you for that survey. I really appreciate that. This is also a shame and secret survey filled out by a guy who calls himself Waffle Ho. He is 19 identifies as straight, was raised in a slightly dysfunctional environment. Ever been the victim of sexual abuse and stuff happened but I don't know if it counts. When I was about eight, my male friend of a few years older convinced me multiple times to get naked with each other. When no one else was around and one of the times we touched our privates. At the time I was trying to be cool and went along with it. I assume that means that you put on a fedora and sunglasses. Today I look back and it surprisingly doesn't bother me. I wonder whatever happened to him. He's been emotionally abused and also not sure. I would never go as far as to say I was seriously emotionally abused but my mom has always been unstable, a little narcissistic and extremely good at manipulation. She's been a borderline alcoholic and drug user as long as I can remember. She always spoiled my older brother and treated me like I was less important than him. I was lucky to be raised mostly by my dad who was a great and supportive father but who was also a functioning alcoholic which eventually led him to die of a heart attack at 53 right before I graduated high school. I had to deal with my mom trying to intervene and cause chaos with him and me growing up. Darkest thoughts. I've never told this to anyone. I sometimes have pedophilic thoughts. I can get turned on by the thought of children. I'm extremely ashamed when I do. I feel lucky that it's never been strong enough to make it hard to not molest a child. It's just something I feel sometimes and I can't do anything about it except wish it wasn't there. Darkest secrets. When I was 17 I had a short sexual and emotionally abusive relationship with a woman who was 28 at the time and who was friends with one of my family members. After someone told me my friendship with her was toxic, who by the way didn't know I was doing sexual things with her, I realized I was making a mistake and ended it. The only person who knows is my now girlfriend who I told it to and I hope no one else ever finds out. No fantasy is most powerful to you. Don't have much sexual fantasies but I get really turned on by the idea of watching my girlfriend dominate another man or woman as I sit and watch. The thought gives me anxiety and a little jealousy but also really turns me on. I wish it could sit down and have one last conversation with my dad and tell him all this stuff I've learned about the world and myself and what he would think of all the things going on in the world today. I miss him more than anything and it hurts deeply. Oh bunny, I'm sorry for your loss. I've shared most of this with my girlfriend. She also has crippling anxiety and depression. She's had it her entire life. She understands everything I tell her and I'm very grateful to have had her for the last two years. I feel like throwing up and I'm shaking but I'm glad I decided to do this. Anything you'd like to share with someone who shares your thoughts or feelings? I don't know what to say other than I hope if this is actually read on your show that it helps someone and shows people they are not alone and no matter how hopeless life seems, there's always something to do or someone to talk to for help. I couldn't say that. I couldn't have said it better myself buddy. Thank you for sharing all that stuff and you wrote it after writing this down. You felt like throwing up and you were shaking. That to me is a good indication that processing it is going to be a good tool for you to heal and to feel the way that you want to feel in the future. This is a happy moment filled out by Amka and she writes, "My therapist mentioned telling my parents about myself harm over a letter might be easier. I gave them the letter and went out the front where my dog had followed me. I hugged her and cried knowing what I was telling them was making them hurt. A few minutes later my dad came out, gave me a big long hug and said he was sorry. My mom gave me a hug inside but I was so touched my dad came out to me and my mom gave us that moment. Fast forward one week. They helped me move out of my house and my dad came with me to quit my job which was the cause of the self harm. I'm so lucky to have parents like that. I fucking love when I read moments of parents showing up whether it's apologizing or helping or just listening or empathizing. It's so beautiful. And then finally this is a list of loves from a person who calls himself my calamari is my love. And they write, "I love that I am a light sleeper early riser and that my girlfriend can fall asleep just about anywhere and is a deep sleeper. When I get up for work before she is awake I tuck her back in and give her a gentle kiss and I love the little smile and half a sleep moan she makes in response. I love when we play board games with my parents and I get to watch her and my mom get closer and closer as they talk about different things. We've been dating five going on six years now and I can tell that her and my mom will always get along together. I love when you're surrounded by a group of friends and you're able to just observe and be a fly on the wall listening to a little of this conversation and a little of that conversation ultimately getting to zone in and out as you please. I love when my girlfriend does it work and her cat jumps up on the couch as he makes a soft cooling sound and immediately starts purring and headbutting my hand and head wanting pets. I love when my shepherd mastiff gets jealous and shoves his nose under my hand or arm and thrusts his head up his way of asking to be petted. Thank you for continuing this podcast and perpetuating the idea that everyone has their own struggles and no one is alone. This podcast is my own form of therapy and I am so grateful. Well, thank you. That means a lot to me and I'm grateful for the community of listeners and you know, it helps me feel seen and heard and validated and helps me process my shit. So right back at you, I guess that would be an opposite of go fuck yourself. Just remember if you're out there and you are struggling, there is help everywhere. It's not always easy to find it or to find it. the words to ask for help, but it can make a huge difference in our lives and the lives of other people. And never forget that you're not alone. And thanks for listening. Everybody I know is bizarrely beautiful. Hi I am Mandy Moore, Sterling Kay Brown, and I am Chris Sullivan, and we host the podcast, that was us now on HeadGum. Each episode we're going to go into a deep dive from our show, This Is Us. That's right. We're going to go episode by episode we're also going to pepper in episodes with different guest stars and writers and casting directors. Are we going to cry? Yes. A little bit. A lot. A whole lot. A whole lot. That's what I'm hoping, man. Listen to that was us on your favorite podcast app or watch full video episodes on YouTube or Spotify, new episodes every Tuesday.