#533 Maggie Freleng with Selma Butler

Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101, it's a new podcast hosted by me, Hota Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats. Open your free iHeartRadio app search, Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hota Kotby is presented by CVS. I am the therapy gecko. I am an unlicensed lizard therapist who takes phone calls from real anonymous humans about their problems, such as this. Sometimes I'll have my girlfriend pre-choose spicy food and kind of begging bird it into my mouth. Is that weird? This week on therapy gecko we're hearing all real authentic human stories about anything from relationships to family drama to serendipitous encounters with unexpected people in the world. If real people peak your interest, this is the podcast for you. Listen to therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McFee and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. I'm Mormon Polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house for our reason Lamborghini's private jets a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Frog on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all it's Maggie. Today I'm sharing an interview I did last year, but we chose to hold off on releasing it. At the time Selma Butler was working on his post-conviction relief so we didn't want to risk slowing down his pursuit of justice in the courts. But sadly, despite strong evidence of his innocence, Selma's request for post-conviction relief has been denied. Now for the second time he has to go before the Illinois Appellate Court to continue his fight. Selma's story is a painful reminder of how our justice system can fail and how easily innocent people can pay the price, how easy it is to lock someone up and how hard it is to get them out. I also want you to be the first to hear that next week I'll be making a very big announcement. My love of a good colleague Gilbert King will be joining me to discuss something I've been working on for two years. It'll be coming out in the bone valley feed very soon. So stay tuned for that. On November of 1995, the body of 34-year-old Angela Young was found in her 13th floor apartment. She had been stabbed over 60 times. Angela lived in the Chicago Projects in a building that was said to be ruled by the notorious gangster disciples. Rumor had it that she was holding drugs for someone in the gang and that she had been killed in a drug-related dispute. 17-year-old Selma Butler, who lived three floors below, saw the police and sirens outside that day. I can remember the day they found her body. It's the project builder so everybody is want to know what happened. You know what? Someone's killed in the building. A few weeks later, Selma was picked up and arrested for Angela's murder based on a statement that police had taken from another teenage boy during an unrelated interrogation. When we got in the car, the detector reached back and grabbed my neck and he choked me out and like spit on me and told me I did it and think like he really spit in my face. My name is Selma Butler. I was wrongfully convicted in 1995 and I served 25 years for a crime I didn't commit. From Lava for Good, this is wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling. Today, Selma Butler. I grew up in Chicago in a project, in a robotel of projects. Selma Butler was born in 1968. My mom passed away when I was 13 and my father was incarcerated, basically my entire life. He went to prison when I was five so he did a maximum of like 30. Did you have any kind of relationship with him? Yeah, when I was younger, he stood like for Christmas, cent toy cars and stuff and right letters and things that they said, "Damn." Selma had two older sisters. He was closest to his sister, LaKisha, who was two years older than him. So what was growing up like where you grew up? What did you guys do? What was life like? It was fun. You know, if he's in a project, he actually would. You know, he had all your friends and things like that. So it wasn't as harsh as you would think it would be. It was living in a ghetto, you know. It was loving in the house, though. But gangs and gang violence were all around him. By the time he reached first grade, Selma had already seen his first shooting. I see them, they shot the garbage man, the guy to get the trash. And that day I was probably like six or seven somewhere days. They shot like five or six people out of that day. And I was on the basketball court and I seen it. You know what I mean? So you see it every day. Were you scared? Is that scary to grow up like that? Yeah, yeah. It's real scary. You know, because I was seeing guys come down from school and the guy was like, just dead out on the bench in front of the building. Were you worried something could happen to you? Always. Really? Always. You know, not just me, my sisters, you know, my family, friends, just, just everybody's like, this is just not mine, you know? And I chose not to be part of a gang, even though like they automatically put all of us in the gang. Right. Right. So it don't really matter if you're not in the gang is in the gang. If one of the police going to see you in the gang anyway, depending on what you live, you know? Sure. You always find yourself at a disadvantage, you know? You know, as kids, you have run in with the law and stuff like that. Not just like I'm a saint or anything, you know, I mean, I think it's a trouble. Not no murderer, but I can't support you. Despite getting into some trouble now and then Selma resisted the gang life. He had other ambitions. All right. I'm a writer. I didn't have any really hopes and dreams like that because I really didn't have a good foundation or direction on where I was going in life, you know what I mean? I don't enjoy school. So I went to school and things like that. I would have loved to go to college, you know, like be something in life. You know, but I didn't, unfortunately, get the opportunity to do that. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'll like how great I can be out here, you know? When he was 13, Selma's mother died suddenly from a brain aneurysm. After that, he went to stay with his aunt and one of the other buildings in the project. On the 10th floor of 4331 South Federal. That's where he met Gina Wilson. I love Swartz. I played basketball baseball. And I met Gina on a basketball court. He's really good at basketball. So we met each other like do sports. What do you remember about him being could have basketball like I don't play basketball. So does that mean? No, that dude. He that dude is that dude. Selma Butler. He lived in a community in Bronzeville, Chicago, Illinois in a public housing authority. Robert Taylor Holmes. It was like a known area. This is Ashley Cohen, partner at the Bond Jean Law Group. She and Jennifer Bond Jean have represented Selma on his post-conviction proceedings since 2016. And there were four or five separate project buildings. Each one of them was associated with a different gang basically. The building that he was in, the specific one was allegedly run by the gangster disciples at the time. And if you think about it, it's a huge building. It's a housing project. It has 16 floors. There's 10 apartments on each floor. It's a massive building. When Selma was 17 and Gina was 15, something happened in that building that would change both of their lives. On November 13th, 1995, Angela Young is found stabbed to death in her apartment. She has 65 stab wounds. The medical examiner opine that the wounds appeared to have been caused by either a scissor or another instrument with multiple blades. After Angela's body was found, the police were called. The first person to speak with them was a neighbor by the name of Hope Miller. According to her, she saw an unidentified male come down the stairs and say there's a woman dead in that apartment. And then she goes up with a fellow by the name of Andre Parkes. They find her. And then the police are called. Yeah. and they examined the scene. The apartment was basically a disaster. A female black wig was found by the front door. She was found in the back bedroom. There's blood on the stove in the front. She's sitting in a pool of blood. There's blood on the walls. Because it's the project builder. So everybody's want to know what happened. Because I could recall coming out the house and looking off the porch and seeing all the police cars and things like that. And I could recall I stayed 1003. Ms. Young stayed three floors above me in 1301. Everybody knew everybody in the building. That's how I knew Ms. Young. I knew her daughters. Adora Shimiko was age. She was pretty. So it's you know, like that. So you know, you know, you know, you like. So yeah, that's how I knew Ms. Young. I never had a conversation with Ms. Young, but I knew her like, you know, how you doing types of things. Which you know, you know. And then the investigation ensues. But as I know from doing wrongful conviction work, I never trust what's in police reports. But it gives a little bit of a framework of what happened. After they find the body, they interview a bunch of witnesses. So Gina Wilson was one of the people that they interviewed, hope Miller is one of the people that they interviewed, and Andre Park is another one that they interviewed. And Gina in his original interview to the police, if you believe it, he basically says that he went up to the apartment and that he had been dating one of Angela's daughters and was going up to the apartment to go to see his girlfriend and he discovers the body. The police kind of ran with that. - Soma says he hadn't been anywhere near the apartment. But somehow during an entirely separate police interrogation on a different matter, his name got pulled into the case. - The area one detectives claim that two teenagers are all Gilmore who was 14 years old at the time, but he was in seventh grade or sixth grade. And Antonio Thomas, who was 16 years old, they were both in custody for unrelated charges. Apparently Earl Gilmore was violating a curfew, because you know, you just lock people up for violating their curfew back then. So area one detectives have two teenagers in custody who they know don't have parents present, are underage easily coerced, easily manipulated, and basically they tell them somebody died and you're gonna tell us who did it and you're gonna tell us the story of what happened. According to the police, they volunteered that they were present for the murder of Young and that they did it with Gina Wilson and Soma Butler. There's this story that Angela basically was holding marijuana in her apartment for Gina Wilson and Soma Butler and the reason that they killed her was because they discovered that three bags of marijuana was missing from the stash that she was holding. So naturally three bags of marijuana equates to 66 stab wounds and that's how they kind of get their narrative. And did you know Gilmore? - Didn't know Gilmore, didn't know Antonio Thomas, never hung out with him or nothing. He was in the sixth grade, I was a junior, you know, so he was a little kid. On November 13th, 1995, Earl Gilmore testified before a grand jury that he had seen Soma and Gina punch and stab Angela Young in her bedroom. Earl was 14 years old. There was no adult present while he was being questioned by police and he was not allowed to leave police custody until he had given testimony. A few days later, Soma and Gina were both arrested and charged with first degree murder. - I was taken to the police station and they just sent me in a room for a long time. When I was finally came in, I can't recall his name or whatever. He explained why I was there. Santa, my name came up in a murder. They said I killed Ms. Young or whatever the case may be. So like an ice cream, she went like, yo, I could I kill someone? I got on the same clothes I had on yesterday. You know, like I got on my same clothes. So I was just, you know, like good and, you know, so I asked for a polygraph test. And they took me to take a polygraph test and we came back, they never gave me the results. But when we got in the car, they detect the reach back and grab my neck and he choking out and like spit on me and told me I did it and think like he really spit in my face. - You were 17, did you have an attorney with you? - I did. - Did you know you could? - No, I'm not really nine. - So they didn't tell you how to write to an attorney? - No, not that I can recall. I was sent to the county jail. At the time I was 17, I was five feet 90 pounds. I was placed in the county jail and that was the head. - Joy is essential and it's also elusive. You can't order it, you can't borrow it or simply hope it into life. But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101, it's a new podcast hosted by me, How To Cut Me. Together guys, we'll have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, entertainment legends, sports icons, wellness experts, and everyday people will share how they find, allow, and experience joy and offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced and harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on air chats. Joy after a breakup, joy is an empty nester, joy after a loss. Joy as a caretaker, this new podcast will speak to you. Listen to Joy 101 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you at your podcasts. - I am the therapy gecko. - Sometimes I'll have my girlfriend pre-choose spicy food and kind of bagu bird it into my mouth. Is that weird? - Or this? - I had my boyfriend over and I had dirty dishes everywhere. And I put the dirty dishes on a closet, so he wouldn't see them. - If you're the kind of person that would enjoy being a fly on the wall of a stranger's therapy session, or if you pass people on the street and constantly wonder what might be going on in their heads, this is the podcast for you. This week on therapy gecko, we're hearing all real authentic human stories about anything from relationships to family drama, to serendipitous encounters with unexpected people and things. If real people peak your interest, listen to therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. - Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. - We were God's chosen Kingdom on Earth. - He felt destined for greatness. - So when a swaggering Armenian businessman had a pulse Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. - For our reason Lamborghini's private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. - Amish Al-Makfi and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. - When Jacob met Levan, this went to a billion dollar fraud. - But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? - The largest tax investigation in American history. - You need to tell me what you know is somebody coming after me. - Jacob told Levan, "You're ruining my life." - Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. (soft music) - Thank you for listening to "Rongful Conviction" with Maggie Freeling. You can listen to this and all the Lava For Good podcasts, one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava For Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. (soft music) In June of 1998, Gina Wilson and Selma Butler both went to trial separately before Judge Joseph Erso. - Gina goes to trial first. He chooses to have a bench trial before Judge Erso and he's acquitted. A trial. Judge Erso finds him not guilty. So my client then goes to trial. How come you opted for a bench trial? - My attorney, he made E.E. Ad made the suggestion because Gina Wilson wasn't acquitted. So he was like, "Well, if Gina Wilson was acquitted, we have the same opportunities with a bench trial." - So when you're at trial, did you think everything was going okay? Did you think it was gonna wind up the same as Gina's and you'd be acquitted? - Yes ma'am, I did. Once they realized that he didn't do it, then I figured like, "Oh, they can realize I didn't do it as well." that was. the case. The trial was appalling. So George Grazeka represented my client, Sama Butler, and Joe McGat's prosecuted my client. He waves opening arguments, Selma's attorney waves opening arguments, and there was a total of five witnesses. The trial lasted maybe all of 45 minutes. There were a total of 13 questions asked by Selma's attorney to all of the witnesses. I've never been a trial, you know, so I figured this had trial go. So I'm like, you know, then I thought he did a good job. I didn't know better. Earl Gilmore was brought in to testify for the prosecution. Like, I prayed to God that Gilmore come to court and tell the truth, which he did. So I was hopeful. I was afraid, but I was hopeful as well, you know. Earl Gilmore gets on the stand. And then Earl begins his testimony by saying that whoever brought him over to the grand jury basically said go along with everything they tell you. And that's why he did. Remember while he was being held in police custody, Earl testified before the grand jury that Selma and Gino had killed Angela. When he appeared at Selma's trial two and a half years later, Earl tried his best to walk back his previous testimony. He actually, to his credit, does say he says when I was taken to the police station, I didn't know what I was taken there for. Well, we got you now. We're going to charge you with this case if you don't go along with what we tell you. But despite his recantation, the prosecution was still able to admit Earl's initial grand jury statement as evidence. And how they present this is they say, you know, did you take an oath to tell the truth before you testified? And he says yes. And when you testified before the grand jury, you were asked the following questions. And did you give the following answers? So they basically put him in a scenario where he has to say yes, I did give those answers. They're putting him in a perjury trap because if he says anything other than that, he can be charged with perjury for lying to the grand jury. Then they continue asking him questions where you asked this question, did you give this answer? And he says yes, I was forced. Yes, I was forced. And that's kind of how the narrative, but they get in the substance of the grand jury testimony. And that's the evidence that was ultimately used to convict Selma. On October 28, 1998, less than an hour after the trial started, Judge Erso found Selma guilty of first degree murder. He was sentenced to 50 years in prison. I'm being a moron for the incarcerated for crime. I didn't commit. I was I was hurt. I cried. I cried. I cried. I cried every day. I cried. Do you think, I guess, do you think racism played a part in your case? Just lumping just because you lived in this building because of your skin color? They said you were a gang member and really kind of just determined your fate that way. Yeah, I say that in a sense of like, I probably know hundreds of people in the same situation that I'm in, that's not a given opportunity to talk to you. But have the same exact situation. You know, like when you think about what Joseph Maggatz did because he was the state's attorney on this case, in like the little evidence that he used to convict me, how many other people was done like this, you know? African-American poor people that couldn't afford attorneys and things like that, you know? How many other people was done like this? So yeah, race played a part, poverty paid a part. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. You can't order it, you can't borrow it or simply hope it into life, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hota Kotby. Together, guys, we'll have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, entertainment legends, sports icons, wellness experts, and everyday people will share how they find, allow, and experience joy. And I'll offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced and harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats. Joy after a breakup, Joy is an empty nester, Joy after a loss, Joy as a caretaker. This new podcast will speak to you. Listen to Joy 101 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes I'll have my girlfriend pre-choose spicy food and kind of baby bird it into my mouth. Is that weird? Or this? I had my boyfriend over and I had dirty dishes everywhere and I put the dirty dishes on a closet so you wouldn't see them. If you're the kind of person that would enjoy being a fly on the wall of a stranger's therapy session, or if you pass people on the street and constantly wonder what might be going on in their heads, this is the podcast for you. This week on therapy gecko, we're hearing all real authentic human stories about anything from relationships to family drama to serendipitous encounters with unexpected people and things. If real people peak your interest, listen to therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen Kingdom on Earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman had a pulse Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. For our reason Lamborghini's private jets meeting the president of Turkey, our Michelle McFee and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant, this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know is somebody coming after me. Jacob told Levant you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I was afraid then I was really little. I was little little. I was only fasty. I was afraid, you know. You're around all these guys that didn't commit to crimes and stuff like that and murders and things like that and you know you're not that guy, you know. I mean I'm not that guy that's here tough and all that, you know. So I was hurt in afraid. Within a year or so, Selma began studying at the prison law library in order to appeal his case. His first appeals in 2000 and 2004 were dismissed. But he kept out it and eventually that led him to someone who would become very important in helping him survive life in prison. I'll know for sure. It's the lady named Miss Flowers and she runs the law library. She see my name. My name is unique Selma and she asks me she says, "Do you have a sibling by the name of Selma that I see my father?" She says, "You know he worked here." So the whole time my father worked in the library. So you got to know your dad from inside prison? That is unusual. It was due to the fact I haven't seen him in so long since I was like five. When I met him, I was actually impressed on how intelligent he was. Like because he studied law and he didn't help guys get out of prison and things of that nature. So he's a blessing. He was actually myself, for quite some time. Wow. So what was that like? It was a blessing due to the fact I had somebody there that was guiding me and things of that nature. So it was a blessing. It was horrible. It was still a blessing. Did he give you advice on how to survive in there or anything? Yeah. In a sense, you know study yourself, mind your business. Go to school. I went to school. I made a president's list a couple of times in college. You know, just put my head down. It's something that I was there for something I didn't do, but I tried to make the best of it. Did he believe you? Well, he did law. So he read the case and knew that I was innocent. In addition to reconnecting with his father, there was another family member that helped Selma get through prison. I am Linda Butler. I am Selma Snees. I know him all my life, even though it was of course, telephatically why he was in prison. Linda is the daughter of Selma's sister, LaKisha. She was just a baby when he went to prison, but she says he's always been a big part of her life. Laquisha made sure of that. She talked to all of us about it. She's a mother of five, and she just, all I remember is her, you know, supporting him, having to put money on the phone, to the point where it groomed us to do the same thing, you know? Like, this has became our norm. We got an uncle in jail for something he didn't do. Like, this is our norm. Sama was at the Menard Correctional Center, nearly 400 miles from Chicago. So throughout the first decade of Linda's life, their relationship was only by phone. We made the best out of it, you know? Far as like, when he called, but of course, it was very limited, you know? Like, when he called, we'll try to-- "Oh, uncle, can you, you know, help me write this? Can you, you know, just-- I just-- I think it was hard-- I feel like it was heartbreaking. And I remember when I was seven years old, when I was turning seven. And he was like, "I'm going to come home for your birthday. I'm going home for your birthday." She was seven years old. I told her, "She, her birthday was coming." And I told her, "Well, I'd be on for your birthday." And I was like, "Okay, okay." And then the day of her birthday, I called her to wish I had your birthday. She told me her last one. And I just remember being heartbroken. I didn't want to talk to him on the phone. And when my mom was like, "Just talk to your uncle." And he was like, "I'm sorry, you know?" But I didn't know any better. When Linda was around seven years old, Laquisha arranged for the family to visit Selma in prison. And Linda couldn't wait to finally meet her uncle in person. She remembers that they had to get up in the middle of the night to catch the bus. And we rode eight hours, and they turned us around. Wow. I got it. Because I think the prison just went on lockdown and all that. And mind you, my mom is thinking, "Mom, so the money that she put into it, she don't get it back, you know?" Linda and Selma didn't meet face to face until she was 11 years old. Oh my God. We had so much to talk about. I was able to touch his hand. I was super excited. Because in my mind, I literally didn't know that he had a face. Like, 'cause all I know, you know, is him being over the phone. We didn't have pictures 'cause I think he was so young when he was away. So when I first saw him, he just had his little smirk on his face. And I'm like, "You look like my mom, right?" Over the years, throughout his appeals, Linda and Selma remained close. She sent me money to send. That is that I write to different attorneys and stuff like that. 'Cause it cost like seven bucks to send out my package. So she makes sure I have money to send to my mail out and stuff like that. And she was young. She's probably 19, 20, you know what I mean? But she's been there in my entire life, you know? She's been there in my entire life, and she's been there in my entire life. And she's been there in my entire life. And they've been told to go to bed. The stuff they had to eat. And them not being around their family. It just gave me a whole outlook on life. Like, oh my God, in the blink of an eye, anything. So I got to take life seriously. In 2013, with the help of a pro bono attorney, Selma filed a second motion for DNA testing, which was granted. I realized DNA was my case. Cosmess Young, she had skin under her nails. So once I realized that, I filed for DNA testing. And then the conviction integrity unit decided to undertake an investigation into his claims. Fabio Valentini, he was in charge of the integrity from the vet to sign. And he said, he wanted to redo the DNA test because he wanted to cross his teeth and die his eyes. And they gave me a court date of July 28. So I'm thinking I'm going home. So I gave away all my items, my food, and everything, and my t-shirts and stuff. But when Selma got to court that day, no one was there for him, no one from the conviction integrity unit, and no one from his attorney's office. And I had to go back to NRC, which was state deal, and how it's crushed. My soul was crushed. So I wrote to the court, and they told me my case was off call. Which is something I never heard of. So I had a-- I was in court, but I never had a court date for like a year. At that point, Selma wrote to Bondine Law Group. And we started representing him pro bono in 2016. And we basically started from the beginning. And that included reinvestigating the DNA evidence what there was of it. What's so difficult about a case like Selma is, when there's no evidence to begin with, it's really hard to unravel it, because there's really no evidence in the first instance. It's not a cut and dry DNA case. So the DNA evidence, it excluded Selma from two of the blood stains, but the victim's fingernails had five male profiles and could have been 64% of the population. And he was not excluded from that mixture. And then another stain he was excluded from was the top kitchen gas range. And that was a mixture of two male profiles and he was excluded from that. The problem with the DNA and what the CIO ultimately hung their hat on is like, well, he's not excluded. So we can't say it's exonerating, right? Ashley's team also wanted to explore the idea of alternate suspects. The three offenders who we believe are the ones who actually did it. One of them could not be excluded from the fingernails. And two of them were not excluded from a stov sample and a hall sample. Those three individuals were Maurice Pearson, Ricky Buckley and Andre Parks, all known members of the gangster disciples. I mean, had the attorney at the time done any investigating at all, he would have come up with what we came up with 25 years later, which was that everybody in the community knew that Angela was holding marijuana for ruler, Reese and Dre, who were Maurice Pearson, Ricky Buckley and Andre Parks, and that there is evidence to suggest that they are the true perpetrators. When their investigators spoke to Angela Young's daughter, Shamika, the team learned even more. Shamika told our investigator that young people, you know, used to sell marijuana, but ruler, Ricky ran the big operation out of the building. She also said that a woman and a man outside her building one day after the murder told her that Reese had killed her mom. Ruler, Reese and Dre went and watched some of the trial. It just seemed like they were keeping their presence known to make sure that nobody snitched. And that's the kind of community that they lived in. When we got the file, there was a report in there that said that someone called the police to report that Maurice Pearson was responsible for Young's murder. There's a report that shows he was picked up. There was no questioning and he was ultimately released. That report was not in the public defender's fire. And as the appellate court even said in their decision, the Pearson report gives the distinct impression that more information was not available because the police did not want to find it. And we've seen this in other cases. It wasn't uncommon for there to be some sort of relationship with police officers like you scratch my back, I scratch yours. You know, whoever had the connection to the police officers were like, you're gonna cover me on this. And we're gonna frame these other kids because I'm not going to prison for this. And that's just how it shook out. (soft music) In 2018, the Bondgene Group filed a post-conviction petition based on newly discovered evidence of innocence and ineffective assistance of counsel. In March of 2022, Jennifer Bondgene argued some was case before the appellate court, Justice's Nathaniel House, Cynthia Cobb's and Terrence Landvin. Who is the attorney who's gonna make a presentation for the appellate today? Good morning, Your Honor, Jennifer Bondgene on behalf of Mr. Butler. - I mean, I just listened to the oral argument again. The appellate court, especially Justice Laban, was appalled by this trial. - Yeah, and trying to compare, this is one of the more unusual cases that I've ever dealt with in my 13 years in the appellate court here. But we have two defendants, co-defendants who were tried in bench trials in front of the same judge. The first guy gets off, the second guy gets 50 years. - Jennifer Bondgene went on to explain that much of the state's case against Selma hinged on the co-rest grand jury testimony of 14-year-old Earl Gilmore. - And if the trial of Mr. Butler, his public defender who by all accounts was a competent attorney, asked all of four questions of the police officer who allegedly took this statement, statement that was. never memorialize, wasn't signed off on, wasn't written, wasn't recorded, nothing. That's right. You're right, Your Honor. And there was just no effort to challenge it. And again, it is mind-boggling to me. I can only assume that what happened here is that he assumed a not guilty, but you can't make those types of assumptions. Well, in the state, I don't know what the state was assuming either because both parties waived opening statement. I've never seen a record like this. The wave of opening statement, the first witnesses, no questions, no questions, no questions, then four questions, and you know, didn't even need a lunch break and the case is over. I mean, if this entire case is just as delayed. The Illinois Appellate Court ordered the case to cook county circuit court for an evidentiary hearing. In January of 2023, Selma was discharged from prison after receiving day-for-day credit for good behavior. He had served 25 years of his 50-year sentence. Oh my gosh, you come home during a pandemic? Like, what are we going to do? So I had looked up some things to do and we ended up doing a boat ride, just me and him and a couple of my friends. We finally able to really have some type of memory and it's, oh my gosh, it was so much fun. Even when he's on a boat ride, everybody's dancing, he just he just bought me his head, just chilling, you know. Once I got off the road, I was able to travel. I went to Miami. I rode the jet ski. I got on the Paracelene. Wow. I got in the helicopter. I was able to helicopter beyond say house, real gate house. I was able to look at a backyard. I said, they they pulled. I was able to do, you know, some things that I'm so, you know. I know there's these guys, real things that get better with, you know, I've been having some fun. Selma is keeping busy with a cause that is close to his heart. I work with the outlet. There's a, a mental appropriate. I get paid to mentor, fatherless, old age, boys from age of eight to 22. You know, I work with the parole officers, you know, I go into the schools and speak, teaching positive things about guys, stuff like that. And then after I leave that job, I go to another job with maintenance supply and I clean buildings and stuff, you know, like, down to your work. So that's what I'm doing now. And there's been another significant change in Selma's life since he got out of prison. A friend of mine told me about a date and sight. So I got on the date and sight and we had changed Thomas and we started speaking the things that nature so. And what's her name? Her name is Jimiola. She's intelligent, you know, she's thoughtful, she's beautiful. The nonprofit organization that I actually work for, which is the outlet, she's an intake coordinator there. So she's responsible for all the boys that come into the program. It's just to see someone that gives back and it's thoughtful and things that nature, you know, you like what I like. So I like you. Selma and Jimiola got married in 2022. But even though he served his full sentence, Selma is still not fully exonerated in the eyes of the law. He's trying to make a life for himself. He's trying to live and he can't because, you know, he has this looming over him. You know, a lot of people would be like, oh, you're out anyway. What's the big deal? You know, but it's not about that for him. He's innocent and it is a complete travesty of justice. Even Justice Lavon said, the entire case is justice delayed. I have to just be hopeful and just lean on God, you know, and just get out and do the best I can, you know, give more to humanity than it engaged to me, you know. And Selma says he's not the only one who is mistreated by the justice system. He still thinks about Angela Young and her two daughters, Shamika and Nicole. They didn't properly investigate her mother's death. I wasn't on the wrong. Miss Young was wrong because they didn't properly investigate her death. They didn't care about her death. They didn't care about my wrongful arrest. So at some point, Black deaths don't matter, Black lives don't matter. We don't matter, you know. Everybody that was a part of this was, you know, mistreated. So, God's will, I do right, I do right by life. Thank you for listening to wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the links in our bio to see how you can help. I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler and Kevin Wartus, as well as senior producer Annie Chelsea, producer Kathleen Fink, story editor Hannah Beale, and researcher Shell B. Sorrows. The show is engineered by Jackie Pauley with additional production by Jeff Clyburn and Connor Hall. The music in this production is by three time Oscar nominated composer Jay Ralf. Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Lavah For Good and at wrongful conviction. You can also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lavah For Good podcasts in association with Signal Company number one. Joy is essential and it's also elusive but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats. Open your free iHeartRadio app search joy 101 and listen now. I am an unlicensed lizard therapist who takes phone calls from real anonymous humans about their problems such as this. Some time I'll have my girlfriend pre-choose spicy food and kind of begging bird it into my mouth. Is that weird? This week on therapy gecko we're hearing all real authentic human stories about anything from relationships to family drama to serendipitous encounters with unexpected people and things. If real people peak your interest this is the podcast for you. 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