511 - They'll All Pay

This is exactly right. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we unpacked the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Time to Doubt the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Nekkerd in 2022. I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing, Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trap on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi listeners, I'm Anison Field, the host of the Girlfriend Spotlight, and I've got some great interviews coming your way. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of season 1, 2, 3 and 4 of the Girlfriends. And every single episode of the Girlfriend Spotlight 100% ad free. And one week early through the iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love. Like the Trail, Paper Ghost, Pikes in Massacre, The Brothers or Tees, What Happened in Nashville, Hell and Gone, The Godmother and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. For more on Netflix, search my favorite murder for new weekly episodes. And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons because that's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye! Bye! [Music] Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hard Star. That's Karen Kylgera. And this is. [Laughter] I just had caffeine, so I'm ready to fucking go. We are about to start our senior honor choir and you are going to be the subject of it. Happy holidays everyone. Are you having fun? Are you stuck at the house you grew up in with the people you grew up with? What kind of quilters on you right now? Is it. Did your great aunt make it for you? Is it ever been washed? Is it the cat's favorite quilt? It smells like cat pee. Yeah. Yes it does. That means it's Christmas. Do you ever have that when someone comes over and they cuddle up with a pillow and you don't want to say to them, "That's the dog's pillow." Does that wrap it? Oh my god, that has all the time for me. You know it's funny as I just hope no one ever goes and sits down on my couch independently because I'm like, "You're not gonna get. " Right. It's just going to get. Just essentially what you're saying. I care all over you. I mean you can. She puts her butthole. But I can't tell you that now. Because you're putting your butthole there. Suffering your butthole on my dog's butt. Jesus Christ. That's the theme for this holiday season. Amen. Mm. Stop it. Okay. We do have a speaking of holiday season. We like ask people how they were giving back. Oh. And you've got some anecdotes? I do. Because we're doing our December donation thing and I have a funny one. If you want to hear it? Please. I'm giving back this season a whole lot of Catholic daughter shit. I usually try to do my holiday giving to strangers, folks with deep needs. I've never faced. But this year I find those closest to me need a hand in ways only someone close is really equipped for. I'm the never married childless adult daughter in my family and we're all entering the holiday season for the first time without my dad who died just after New Year's 2025. Sorry. It comes 80 frail and alone for the first time since a one year period in the early 70s between her leaving the covenant and between leaving the convent and meeting my dad on a beach in New Jersey. Can we leave in Cove it? I want her to have that. Actually, but a Satan worshipper. She Cove it. That story. Okay. So the none left the convent went to the beach and picked up a man. I love it and never left aside. No. My sister has a years long immune condition that can make chasing after her grammar school aged little boys a real uphill climb. So my spring, summer and holiday giving isn't shifts at a food bank or checks to charities. It's lugging in the cat litter for mom's pets, sorting her recyclables every week, and joining her for an occasional menthol light on kitchen stools by the window. Oh, you watch Willa fortune. Oh, that's amazing. That is the dream. Yeah. Or figure skating competitions. Yeah. I was listening to my nephew's bitch about the nature walks. I marched them on, let my sister nap in the afternoon and my stumbling through impenetrable complex Pokemon battles so she can go out and get a massage. Yeah. I can mope a little like I'm Cinderella and all this, but your question about how we're all getting back allows me to make the case I may actually be more like a luminous angel or tinkerbell in all of this. That's right. At least that's how I'll think about it next time I'm kneeled down scooping a cat box for someone I love. E in Oregon. E, what a beautiful thank you for sending that in and what a beautiful sentiment. Yeah. Because that is everything to the people you love the most. So what a donation to give. Yeah. There's always something you could do even if you don't think you have the means. Yeah. For example, when I'm home with my father over the holidays and I get myself a coffee from usually pizza coffee downtown. Yeah. Have a delivered to the house because it's seven in the morning. I'll get him a lemon loaf. Oh, Karen. I get him a lemon loaf. I won't make him get his own. Just for Christmas or the whole year. Just for Christmas. Oh, yeah. Okay. Don't go. Because you don't want to spoil it. Calm down. Calm down. Calm down. Jim. Dad, that's your lemon loaf. I don't know what else you want from me. Did I tell you that? Did I tell you on this podcast? Really the only time that counts. Yeah. That when I came home from Thanksgiving when I drove home, it was 12 hours in the car. You did. We talked about it. God damn. We talked about it with Vince. It was so hard to hear. So we like we discussed it. I drove back down and then back up. No, I know. I just still can't get over it. But also nothing else has happened to me since that time. I've really been lazy. Actually, that's a good segue. I have a podcast in case you're driving 12 hours. Oh, perfect. Or you want to leave your life for a minute in your head. I binge this podcast in 26 hours. It's 10 episodes. And I binge it within a little over a day. Oh, shit. It was so fucking good. Okay. It's called Beth's Dead. So my friend Elizabeth Lame, she's been a podcaster since 2010. So she's like, "Oh, gee, has always done it with her husband Andy Rosen. She's the sweetest person." And they stopped podcasting suddenly out of nowhere because they had a really awful experience with a listener. Oh, no. And so they told their friend Monica Padman from Armchair Expert about it. And Monica, as podcasters do said, "Let's make a podcast about it." So it's 10 episodes called Beth's Dead about they had to quit podcasting because they were so afraid for their lives. But the whole podcast, it's almost like they're opening it back up and looking into it. And Monica's kind of leading them along the way to find out what happened. Yes. It does not end the way you think it's going to end. It's actually kind of heartwarming. What else? Really? Yeah. I mean, I don't want to spoil it. I'm just going to use the term catfishing and I'll just throw it out there because I know you love a good catfishing story. I mean, I think it's from being too old to be on like the apps and really a part of the real social part of the internet. Do you have phomo of being catfished? A little bit. I just never, I wasn't picked even to be catfished. They didn't know how to get a hold of me. You're such a big girl. When it comes to catfishing. Really, yeah. I really am. Wait, I'm trying to, okay, I'm following that now. My bad, dad, I love it. You just can't put it down. Put it down, yeah. Put it down of your ears. That's a really cool one, too, because it's like, it deserves to be explained or like gone into. But you know, they say like, well, and I don't know anything about it, but it's like, usually you're not supposed to give those things air. And they made a whole fucking series about it. But it's also like explores parasocial relationships. So she was like telling me that I should listen just as like a cautionary tale, really. I've all of it wrong. Yes. It's so hard. And also it isn't the same as, I don't know. It's just such a weird different time. It's like, there need to be updated rules for this time. Absolutely. And it was 2015. So she kind of, and she's such a sweetheart. She didn't really know the relationship isn't what you think it's going to be. It's fucking gnarly. Okay. We all have to listen to Beth's dead and really process some stuff. Yeah. All right. Well, I got reminded by our writer, Alison and our producer Molly as a fun news. This update for the Parley Overpass, which was featured. And I talked about it in episode 250, Lucas Passing, which later became an MFM animated, Claire the Bosse deere. Yes. And it was all about that they built this overpass so that animals could basically not be in the road anymore. And Utah State University, because it happened in Utah, the Division of Wildlife Resources and Transportation, I guess. Debra. Debra. Right. Love their work. Love their work. Oh, those bitches are so real. I caught it. I caught it. But basically, the overpass is going so good. 77% reduction in wildlife vehicle collisions. Wow. A $15 million cost benefit over the bridge's lifetime. And their favorite finding is most successfully crossed 100% of the time. You never missed a most. Because the most will kill you if you fucking hit it with your car too. Oh, yeah. Like, that's deadly. It is not like, yeah, no. Running over a squirrel. Not that I'm condoning that, but like, no. Although they can be pretty aggressive, so to be honest. What if I wanted that acorn? You didn't even ask me. It's my front yard. Oh, my God. There's a dead squirrel rotting in our backyard and we're not doing anything about it. Oh, a lot of like animal stories from my backyard. Yeah. Sounds like a palatial, gorgeous tropical jungle. It's not. But a lot happens there. Should we do our network highlights? Yeah. So we have a podcast network and this holiday season. We'd love for you to listen to some podcasts on it. That's right. So while we have you here, just a quick reminder, our newest podcast, Brief Recess, a legal podcast with Michael foot, Envalous Samal Branch, which by the way, such a delightful. You want to talk about pair social relationship? I just want to hang out and talk to those guys or listen to them talking all day long. Seriously. If you haven't listened to it, it kind of has a little bit of everything. They're addressing these horrifying things that are happening in our world right now. But it was light in the lighthearted way. But also, but also called action. But it called action, but then slay boots down all the things you want. But just to remind you, they are on YouTube because it is a podcast, but it's a video podcast as well. So every single episode comes out on video. You can watch Michael and Melissa as well as listen to them. So please go over to their YouTube page, youtube.com/atbriefrecess and like, subscribe, interact, do all the things that let people know that you like something. But also enjoy a video podcast. Yeah. It's the future. You're so young and with it. And if you're craving more content over the holidays, now is the time to join the fan called at fancult.supercast.com. You'll get every episode of my favorite murder ad free plus exclusive audio and video, so much video, content and more. And if that doesn't satisfy you, then follow my favorite murder on Instagram and on TikTok. We're on TikTok too. And make sure you don't miss any of our clips or our polls or our special announcements and all the other things that we have over there. We've been blowing up social media lately because Shannon, our social media manager, has been just fucking working her butt off and killing it. Shannon McNaally. That's right. Please, please follow us. She's a legend. And for our last minute holiday shoppers, don't worry. We've got you. The exactly right store has easy gift options that don't require express shipping. Head to exactlyrightstore.com to shop gift cards or sign up for the fan cult for someone you love at fancult.supercast.com. That's a great gift. It's a really good gift and you can get subscriptions for three, six or 12 months depending on how much you like the person you're buying it for. And how long are you going to be my life? I don't know. So let's just try three months. Yeah, let's do three months and see how you do. How I decide you do. That's right. Oh, also, it's time for another December donation. I like this part. This is very fun. Every December, we like to spend the month giving to groups doing life changing work here in the United States and, of course, around the world. So today we're doing $10,000 to World Central Kitchen, led by Chef Jose Andres. They provide meals to communities in crisis, getting food to people quickly after natural disasters, conflicts and humanitarian emergencies. Their mission is to use the power of food to heal, support and rebuild communities when they need it the most. In 2024, World Central Kitchen supported families impacted by conflict and disasters in 20 countries, providing over 109 million meals. So if you'd like to join us in supporting their work, head to www.ck.org. And if donating isn't your thing right now, you can also explore volunteer opportunities at wckk.org/volunteer. So yay, December donations. I'm Clayton Nackered, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. The dating contract. Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. This season, an epic battle of he said she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing to get hurt by the [bleep] bachelor. Listen to Love Trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppie. Lucy Leppie has been found guilty. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt, the case of Lucy Leppie, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it, to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Leppie was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Leppie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. I'm Biggie when you feel uncomfortable. I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prince Music Is Therapy, a new podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist that asks one simple question, who do you want to be and what's the song that can take you there? Music changes what you feel, and what you feel changes what you do, right? That moment where a song shifts something inside you, that's where transformation starts. This year I'm talking to experts across every area of life, like personal finance, icon Jean Chatsby, New York Times journalist David Gellis, relationship legend Dan Savage, human connection teacher Mark Brogues, and the man who shaped my ear more than anyone, Questlove. They'll bring the strategies, I'll pair them with the right records, and we'll teach you how to use the music to make a change stick. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for your entire year. Listen to DJ Hester Prince Music Is Therapy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi listeners, I'm Annasin Field, the host of the Girlfriend Spotlight, and I've got some great interviews coming your way. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of season 1, 2, 3, and 4 of the Girlfriends, and every single episode of the Girlfriend Spotlight 100% ad-free, and one week early through the iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like The Trail, Paper Ghost, Pikes in Massacre, The Brothers or Tees, What Happened in Nashville, Hell and Gone, The Godmother, and more. So don't wait to head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeartTrueCrumPlus, and subscribe today. It's so into the holiday spirit. You're going to know about it, because this is a story that if you were alive and at least semi-conscious during the 90s, you vividly remember this story, it was a huge media sensation, the way only 90s media could do, tackless and vulgar, and in your fucking face constantly. And they banned smoking? No. No, we know it was important to you back then. Tell a whole story about it. I just remember being like, "It's never going to work." Right. No one's ever going to do this. Smoking or not. And Coco's, you have to go to AM. We used to smoke in Denny's. That's what's the new question of hell to you. No. Have you ever had a cigarette in Denny's? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No. Okay. So it's January 6th, 1994, and it will be the country's most infamous January 6th for the next 17 years. Hmm. Then there will be one that you can't be. That's right. We're at the Kobo Arena in Detroit, Michigan, a day before the US figure skating championships. And we all know what's about to happen. Yes, we do. This is the story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding. I mean, God, this is crazy. It was such a wild, like, story. It was huge. It was on the cover of every magazine. People wouldn't shut up about it. Yeah. It was one of the biggest fucking stories of the thing. So good. You don't know about it yet. You should. The main sources for the story are an essay in the believer by Sarah Marshall. And she actually hosts the podcast you're wrong about, which is super good. Oh, yeah. That's a good podcast. And the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary called The Price of Gold. Remember when I called it 30 by 30 and everyone got mad. No one got mad. I just love how often I've done that. Or just like, you know, on 30 by 30, people like, it's 30 for 30. Just like, we're like, we did a whole thank you of when we were in people magazine and like, we shared a page with some band. And I said the name wrong. Oh, yeah. It's actually band it for it. No, okay. My favorite murder. We're going to get it wrong. Yeah. Essentially. That's right. We all know this part, I think. There's some people that weren't born for like 10 years when this, you know. Also, just like lately, with the way things are going, remind us of the good times. Yeah. I was thinking about it. It's like, there's a possibility a lot of listeners who hadn't been born yet. But is it possible that some listeners parents hadn't been born yet? Yeah. Let's not talk about that. Okay. Babies have a babies. All right. Babies. So Nancy, Kairigan, is practicing her routine for the US championships. Nancy, along with several other American skaters, most notably, Tonya Harding, is vying for a spot on the Olympic team. She'll need to place first at this championship or maybe second in order to go. So it's a big deal. Now Nancy's America's sweetheart in the only way Olympic hopefuls can be. It's just such a thing that we put on them of like, we need you to be perfect and represent our country exactly how we want you to. Yeah. It seems like a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure and also especially in ice skating, I think there's not a lot of people that can do it unless they have money. That's right. Yeah. Yes. So Nancy is pretty and elegant and she's talented but humble and is the quintessential ice princess that the public and ice skating judges root for. So she is that quintessential beautiful ice skater. A camera crew is in the ring filming her practice. And she finishes Nancy walks off the ice and disappears through a black curtain to walk through a hallway to the locker rooms. Her coaches, Evie and Mary, Scott Vold who are married are nearby finishing up a conversation with some friends and then they're going to follow Nancy out to the locker rooms. But before they can do that, they hear a blood curling shriek coming from the hallway. They run through the curtain to see Nancy crumpled in a heap on the ground. I mean, I'll never forget this video. I'll never forget the sound of her voice. Yeah. She's gripping her knee and sobbing and the camera crew runs out to they start rolling. And the video of Nancy on the floor in her pretty white costume, balling will become infamous, particularly that she's yelling over and over again, desperately asking why, why, why, I'll never forget it. Yeah. It was just why, why would anything bad happen to me? How do you take it? Oh my God. Well, here's the thing, as you were saying that and I've never thought about this before, I'm like, well, of course, because it's the Olympics and there's camera crews everywhere, but it is so like weirdly perfect. The idea that they did this there where everything, even back then, would be recorded and found out is it's such a crazy plan. It's really stupid. It's a stupid plan and it falls apart quickly. But it's funny that like, so we all have preconceived notion of this story like Nancy is the victim, but we don't like her for words in Tanya. You know, you're on her side for some reason, even though she's very unlikable in a lot of ways and it's really hard to root for her, especially like in her own interviews. Yes. But, you know, it's been shaped by the media or are you? And also we've all been raised to hate women so much that we can figure out a way to hate any woman. You don't have to, you can be the victim, you could be the perpetrator, you could be whatever. And that's how we do it, the women. Whereas like, there'll be some dude standing there and you're just like, I don't know, he's fine. You're like, I hate her. I don't like the way she was crying for being hit in the fucking knee. I didn't like the way she was wailing and pain. That bothers me. It stuck up the way she was wailing pain. So yeah, so it's fucked up and she's just purely an innocent victim. She won't give a lot of interviews about this. She just tries to move on with her life. So we kind of, can you not have how many times they've asked her to come at? Just like for 50 years. Yeah. It wasn't 50 years now. It feels like it though. 30, 30. So it comes out that a large, unknown man and a leather jacket is just snuck up out of nowhere and whacked her one time in the leg with a long metal object. And Evie Scottfold, the husband and the husband and wife coach team that coaches Nancy, looks up to see this man crashing through a locked glass door of the arena. Oh, like it's locked. So have you seen the movie, "Eightonia"? I have, but I don't remember this part. I don't know if this actually happens, but in the movie he smashes his forehead through the glass because the door is like bolted shut or locked shut. But we don't, I don't know if that happened, but somehow he smashes the window and like bolts out the, so it's, first of all, like not so I don't do. You plan this. I plan an exit. You plan an exit that's not chained and locked. Right. So it's the Olympics, so you're not going to have the easiest in-and-outs around the practice area. Right. So everyone looks for him and no one can find him. And they try to chase him, but they lose him. But still, Evie will wind up saying to his wife, Mary that night and surprises her that he suspects Nancy's main competitor, Tanya Harding, has something to do with the attack. Oh, immediately. Oh, immediately. Tanya and Nancy are both 24 years old and they both come from working class backgrounds on opposite sides of the country. So Nancy is born in 1969 and grows up in Stonum, Massachusetts. Her dad, Daniel, is a welder and her mom Brenda is a stay-at-home mom and Brenda is legally blind having lost most of her vision from a virus she got when Nancy was a baby. Oh, my God. Yeah. So Nancy has two brothers who play hockey and while the family is not at all wealthy, once Nancy shows an aptitude for figure skating around the time she's eight years old, they put everything into it. And as you said, professional ice skating is not fucking cheap. It's almost like horseback riding to me where it's just like, there's so many things you have to buy. You have to buy ice time coat, you spend money to be on the ice, coaching costumes, all of that shit. Those skates, we bought-- Mi and Laura-- Mi and Laura got into ice skating. It was really cute. She was pretty good at it. We bought her for Christmas of the most beautiful pair of ice skates and she grew out of them within like nine months. Like she needed another pair where I was like-- How much were they? They-- I can't remember, I mean. But it was like that kind of thing where you're just like, oh yeah, they're kids. Right. And you have to do that over and over their whole career. My kid would sit at home. Yeah. Nancy's dad at times works three jobs to afford Nancy's coaching, costumes, and ice time. Why didn't they tell the story when it happened? Don't I feel so guilty? No. I thought she was rich. She was not rich. I just assumed. She just-- she was rich in which I think a lot of people don't give enough credit for is having a stable family. And that's a privilege in itself. And you know, she had that and that's great. And good for her. And it doesn't even seem like there was a actual rivalry between Tanya and Nancy. It was just that Nancy was her biggest competition. Right? Nancy had nothing to fucking do with this, really. Right. Every meaningful thing about the family thing. That's very true because it was almost like, we're all going to pitch in and make this happen. Right. Like, they all traveled together to her competitions, even her brothers. She stayed in the same hotel room with her parents. You know, it was just like that. But I don't want to stay in the hotel room with my parents. No. And I never have. That's not fun at all. And at one point, her dad takes a job driving the Zamboni at the Rink in exchange for Nancy's ice time. So they're dedicated. They don't have tremendous means. But it's clearly a very loving and very stable household. I feel so good. Good. That's what I'm going to do. On the other side of the country in Portland, Oregon, which port, it's like rural Portland, Oregon. This is not like Portland, it's not keep Portland weird. No. It's like you own a gun and you go hunting. Portland, you know? And so their Tanya Harding is born into tougher circumstances. Tanya's dad, Albert works on jobs and suffers from various health problems, which stop him from being able to work at times. Her mother, Lavanna, played by Alice and Janie, epically, I mean, unbelievable. So incredibly good in Tanya that it's uncomfortable. She works as a waitress and the family's home and financial situation is chaotic. And then can I just say like some 30 years later, we're just now starting to learn about how chaos and poverty and childhood can lead to subsequent cognitive and social development issues, impair the development of executive function in children. It changes the child's brain structure, even, which can lead to anxiety and difficulties with social skills, mental health issues, etc. Look it up and go to therapy, everyone. But and it's not an excuse. It's just kind of just say where her head was. Yeah. Right. So when Tanya's three years old, a new mall opens up nearby and I want to say the name of it because I love it. It's the Clackamas Town Center. I don't know why I fucking love that word. I've been there. Clackamas? They have a nice skinny rink right in it. That's what I was going to say. Sorry, I keep jumping you. I'm not trying to. You've got a story. Probably better than I do. It has a skating rink right in the very center of it. And somehow Lavanna finds the money to get Tanya skating lessons. And it's clear from the very beginning that she is a supremely talented skater and athlete from three years old. Well, I mean, that's a thing because Nora was good at it too. She was at a friends birthday party at the Charles Schultz Snoopy ice rink. And someone was like, "Rosa, hey." And they're just like, she's very good at this and likes it a lot. So my sister's like, I mean, it was really fun, but the dedication, you have to sit in the most freezing room and just watch your kids spin in circles. I didn't even think about it for the parents. So it's just like, you're not the California parents. Right. So I was just like, I don't know, isn't it? I'm sorry. You're not like a lawn chair with a beard. It's like the worst possible. Fuck that. And Nancy's parents, LaVanna does as much as she can to fund Tanya's skating, but it's harder for her and she also puts a lot of pressure on Tanya as we see in the movie. Most people seem to come to the conclusion that ice skating will be Tanya's only shot at a more comfortable life than the one she was born into. It's like this or nothing. And it seems like they share that with her. This growing child. Yes. That's this is it. You better get this done for us. Right. You better get your mom is working to make it happen. Just a lot of fucking pressure. When? When? Have to win. When? When are I spending my money on? Right. We're all sacrificing for you. Exactly. Get out there. Now have fun with it. You're not smiling enough. Do your dance to want to be starting something. I mean, Jesus Christ, but we do to children. I know. This country is so crazy. Not me. Not me. Well, we did it to know our little bits. That's true. She got second place one time. Wow. That's exciting. No, I mean, the pressure part, I don't think we're thinkfully. That's the one benefit, usually, of not being, not being the people that have all those things. Right. As you get to sidestep a lot of that stuff. I think my parents were like, just get passing grades. And if you don't, that's okay too. Yeah. Just go. Just go. And if you don't, just graduate high school. And they did. And you did. You gave them everything they asked for and more. That's right. No pressure. So even in real time, it's understood by Tanya's coaches and skating companions that her circumstances are extremely difficult and very different from the typical figure skater. When she's 11, her friend witnesses LaVanna hitting Tanya repeatedly in the ring's bathroom with a hairbrush, just being abusive. Yeah. The friend is shocked and horrified by this and tells the coach that she wants to report Tanya's mom to CPS. It's badass, little 11-year-old. And the coach says that it would end Tanya's skating career forever if they reported her, which is so sad because it's like maybe it would have made you have a better life, even though skating isn't involved anymore. You know what I mean? Yes. Not that that. And also how much of the skating was her choice at that point. Right. A few years later, this friend actually winds up making like a little documentary about Tanya by then, Tanya's 15, and she very frankly talks about her difficult home life. Tanya's mother participates in the documentary and she's wearing a fur coat with a green parrot perched on her shoulder, just like in the movie. Later, Tanya will also say that she was sexually abused as a teenager by several people in her life. And it does seem like there could have been a lack of protection in the environment sugar weapon. It doesn't. Yeah. It's so hard because you can't believe everything this woman says. But there are definitely parts of it that are true and you have to believe. Yeah. So, you know, she's an unreliable narrator. Yes, of course. But she's not lying about everything. No, and also if you have the kind of mom that'll beat you with a brush in a bathroom in front of people, right? Then there isn't a lot of protection going on. It's easy to say this is definitely not happening. Could it be worse at home, of course? Yeah. So the part of ice skating that most appeals to Tanya is the athleticism. And we should talk about what she looked like for people who don't know. Like, she was just so quintessentially 90s. She looked like she burned her eyeliner with a match to get it moving on her eye. She had a very strong, she was like a red head, but she had a very strong eye. She'd also bleach her hair like 90s blonde. Yeah. And like the 90s was kind of still the 80s when it came to style. So think of that like big poofy bangs. Poofy frizzy big hair. Yeah. A little crimp and, you know. Yeah. But then she had got, she looked like an Irish girl to me. Yeah. She definitely looked like the photo that you posted of yourself in high school. Like you would have been friends with her. Yes. Absolutely. She would have been one of Karen's like smoking in the girls bathroom friends. My mom would be like, I don't know if you should go to Tanya's. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. She definitely looks like she smelled like those menthol cigarettes we were talking about. Totally. Right? Like a Kelly Bundy. Yeah. I love it. She can do the grace and the artistry blah, blah, blah, but that's not what comes naturally to her. What comes naturally, what she wants to do is land the most difficult tricks possible. She kind of is a bad, it's not kind of, she's a badass in this way of like, I, if I'm going to do this, I want to be the fucking best at it. And I want to do it, you know, in a way that no one else can. And I know everyone out there doesn't think I can do it. So I'm going to fucking show them and then some so no one can deny it. Such good revenge. Oh, it's the, like that's the best motivation. This one, someone's like, oh, you don't think I can do that. Yeah. Let me go ahead and I'm already brave enough to be able to ice skate, which I, like, I was watching hockey the other day and I'm just like, how are they doing this? I've ice skating maybe once or twice in my life and I, it's truly witchcraft. And then she's like, I'm not scared, not only not to ice skate, but like of anything. So here, I'll just do the thing that makes people cheer. Right. So the trick she wants to land to prove herself to everyone takes a huge amount of strength and power. And so as Tanya progresses on the ice skating circuit, this athleticism and power becomes her calling card. So remember back then they used to always make fun of how big her thighs were. Like that was a big fucking joke. Late night joke back then is how, because ice skaters are so slim and long and length, they also have to be so fucking strong to lift their bodies off of the fucking ice and twirl or like that takes so much strength. Yeah. But also don't look like it. It's just this like horrible thing that we did. We do to women of here's the rules. Now you also have to go backwards and then high heels take the stuff. Exactly. And so while she's known for these like athletic moves and she's like willing to try things that other ice skaters won't Nancy becomes known for her grace and her spins and her elegant lines. So they're very different, but they are competitors directly. And it also seems like the judges are harder on Tanya because she doesn't quite fit that elegant mold of what a figure skater supposed to be. There's a lot of, it's fucked up like the amount of the stuff I've been doing researching this makes me like angry. There's a lot of wiggle room and subjectivity in scoring ice skating. And it's fair to say that some of that subjectivity comes into play when the judges look at Tanya. For instance, she's criticized by a judge for her costume that she made herself because she can't afford the $5,000 one time competition outfit. It's that sort of thing. But she also does seem like a kind of rebel, where she'll pick muses. She's like, I skated a wild thing and just like rock and roll she'll do and like they don't fucking like that. And so the scores are not technical completely. They're also just completely subjective. I think there was a time where we all believed it was objective and so fair and all about scoring or whatever. And then it's like, and then if you tracked in any way the William sisters coming into tennis and the way there was always a problem and it was always a thing and just like, yeah, there's a lot of people in place there that are making that are in charge of decision-making and in charge of like the culture, totally. The agreed upon culture. Like the deck is stacked against you. Yeah. It's fucked up. And so while Tony has to scrap, so while Tony has to scrap, scrap, scrap, scrap. And so while Tony has to scrap for everything she gets, people just seem to want to give and Nancy things. The hero Wang starts designing her costumes because she's such a fan. She gets lucrative endorsement deals. I totally remember the Campbell soup commercial. Do you? Oh, when she was like, she's actually on the ice. No, she's like sipping, closing her eyes and sipping. She's on Chica noodle soup off the ice because she's cold. You know, it's cold on the ice and she just closes her eyes. I mean, she really did look like any girl that would be in 17 mags. Totally. So it was like, she had it all kind of there anyway. Yeah. I just remember her high pony. Yes. The curly hair, the high pony, she was really pretty. And I think that they also liked that she wasn't, it's such a contradiction. They liked that she wasn't this wealthy, you know, wasp who was like a princess. They liked that she was from lower, but not Tanya's, you know, you can do that, but you can't do it this way. You can be from the lower classes, but you have to be pretty while you do it. Right. And you have to be thin. And you have to be humble about it. That's right. I think that you are owed anything. It's, yeah, it's just such a contradiction. She gets endorsements from Reebok. So when people tell this story, there's always this focus on Nancy being the beautiful ice princess and Tanya being the more ugly duckling with bad costumes and bad hair. It does seem like they're compared a lot. They're kind of each other's biggest competitors, but it doesn't seem like they have any animosity towards each other. And Nancy's doing nothing to antagonize Tanya. There's like that story's overblown that they have like a feud because it's not even so. So when Tanya's 15 years old, she meets a 17 year old mustashia dude named Jeff Galuli. He's played by Sebastian Stan. Yes. A classic classic. They fall in love. It's her first ever boyfriend because she's all she does is skate. Yes. And get yelled at by her mother. Right. And she had dropped out of high school so she could skate. There's just nothing else in her life. So she meets this older guy and he has a car and he's a job and she's like smitten completely by him immediately. Also when you're 15, sorry, Tanya, but when you're 15, doesn't it feel like that's when you fall in love the hardest of your whole love? Oh my god. Like you kind of truly lose your mind. The hormones, the like everything that is, oh god no, it's it's bad. It's so bad. It's like soul crushing because you think it's the most important thing and it is the most important thing in the world at that moment. But it's the most important thing that you're doing with Jeff Galuli. So and no one can convince you otherwise. Right. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. So hard to be a teenager. It's the worst. So bad. You could not paint me if I continue to. Oh my god. To move in together when Tanya is just 17 years old and the way she tells the story, she was pretty much just desperate to get out of her mom's house and this kind of seemed like the only way. They get married in 1990 when Tanya's 20 years old and for a while Jeff makes enough money to support them while Tanya keeps skating. And they're hoping to get those endorsement deals. Yeah. Jeff is abusive though allegedly which Tanya will later discuss. The relationship will always be rocky and on and off. And like basically everything in Tanya's life pretty unstable. The way Tanya describes it, Jeff was quote, always saying the right things to get me back and I'd be stupid enough to go back and get beat up again. And they show this in itanya and it's just, it's just, yeah, it's so dark. But also she's not stupid. This is her life. Of course. Like this is the way, if that's been the pattern in your life, you continue that pattern. Yeah. That's not a choice. Okay, my mom loved me and she hit me. He said he loved me and he hit me. That's what she learned. It's really sad and there's not really any, like she doesn't see any other options in her life. It's really fucking sad. Okay. So yeah, it does seem like she kind of internalizes this abuse and is kind of victim blaming herself for it. So it's not an excuse for her behavior. Everything happens to her. But it is context, which I think is important. And so while all this is going on, Nancy's living the way she always has closely supported by her family. She's stayed in the same hotel room as her parents at competitions. She lives with them. And she often describes her mother as her best friend, which like what a fucking privilege to have that in your life. Do you want to know one of my earliest jokes? Yeah. It was based on something some famous person had said, my mother's my best friend and I said, Mom, you're my best friend and my mom went, well, you're not my best friend. Which literally she did. I can't see that. Just like God damn it. It's like she's meant in like a tough love way. Like, I'm your mother, not your friends. She meant it like no one's best friend should be their mother. That's weird. Don't act like that. You don't get another best friend. Totally. I'm Clayton Nackered and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. The media is here. The dating contract. Please search for it. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. This season, an epic battle of he said she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing to get hurted by the bachelor. Listen to Love Trap on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Levy. Lucy Levy has been found guilty. I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt, the case of Lucy Levy, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it, to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Levy was. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Levy on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Biggie. You put on biggie when you feel uncomfortable? This is DJ Hester Prins Music Is Therapy, a new podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist that asks one simple question, who do you want to be and what's the song that can take you there? Music changes what you feel and what you feel changes what you do, right? This year I'm talking to experts across every area of life, like personal finance, icon Jean Chatsky, New York Times journalist David Gellis, relationship legend Dan Savage, human connection teacher Mark Brogues, and the man who shaped my ear more than anyone, Questlove. They'll bring the strategies, I'll pair them with the right records and we'll teach you how to use the music to make a change stick. Listen to DJ Hester Prins Music Is Therapy, an I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi listeners, I'm Anison Field, the host of the Girlfriend Spotlight and I've got some great interviews coming your way. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of season 1, 2, 3 and 4 of the Girlfriends and every single episode of the Girlfriend Spotlight 100% ad-free. So one week early through the I Heart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like The Trail, Paper Ghost, Pikes in Massacre, The Brothers Ortiz, What Happened in Nashville, Hell and Gone, The Godmother and more. So don't wait to head to Apple Podcasts, search for I Heart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. And then, just a few days later, after her marriage to Jeff, Tony is doing her best skating of her life. It's 1991 and Tony becomes the first American woman to land a triple axle in competition at the United States Championship, which is fucking huge. The triple axle has been this white whale for female skaters, figure skaters because it involves launching yourself while facing forward, rotating three and a half times and then landing, facing backwards. And it takes a huge amount of strength to get the necessary height to stay up there that long. I mean, it is like not for the faint of heart. People don't even try it because you will be hurt from doing it. Eat ice as they say. Exactly. Just kidding. They don't say that. Sounds right. Up until now, Japanese skater named Medori Ito has been the only woman in the world to execute it until Tanya. As you said that, I've heard of Medori Ito and I'm like, how much ice skating did I? Yeah. I guess it was just the Olympics. They were big. Yeah. It was really big. And it was like in people magazine and stuff. Exactly. Like we were obsessed with the, I guess our children still obsessed with the Olympics? I don't know. I don't know either, but we fucking work. Let's call the child hotline and see. Are there any children guys? What do you like? Roblox? This is also where her athleticism and her thighs and her muscle came into play. Like you can't be a waif and pull off something that no one else can do in this sport. But they won't, like people don't think that it's an athletic sport. They forget that ice skating is athletic and they want a pretty waifee. Everything's supposed to be a goddamn beauty contest. Right. When women are participating, that all of that comes in and you have to suddenly talk about that all the time. Right. Yeah. It's just a whole thing. It's because of her strength. So fuck you to everyone back then. It's damn by that. Also, just 1994. It's just so telling. It's like she was clearly groundbreaking. Right. You have to look different to do something different. Yeah. Obviously you need the muscles to get up there. Yeah. And it's like she could try to beat Nancy at her own game, but that wasn't her style. And the reason she was one of the best in the world is because she had her own style. And she was doing new, exciting things. It's kind of almost like they shouldn't have been in competition with each other because they were both doing something completely different. Yeah. But they were. So Tongue is Triple Axel. When's her, the United States Championship and sends her to the 1992 Olympics in Albertville, France. I love it there. And Nancy also competes there. But between 1991 and 1992, Tongue seems to lose the ability to land that triple axle. She falters in some competitions. And it seems like her life is just so chaotic. I can't imagine she's getting a lot of sleep. And that's, that takes practice all day if you want, like for the Olympics, you don't happen to like outside of that. I can't imagine. Right. And also, I mean, I bet you the way people do it now where it's like you're eating certain things, training certain times. All you're doing. She's smoking cigarettes. She knows she's like, she finds a Camaro somewhere to lean on and just smokes that sig. Drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, hanging out with your fucking husband who like you have this tumultuous relationship with. It's just not conducive to winning an Olympic fucking medal. Probably not. Right. I mean, I'm just podcasting and I'm fucking exhausted from like sleeping eight hours last time. My muscles. I brought it all weekend and my muscles are killing me. Same. It hurts. It's good at something. And I have big thighs. And still I can't nail the triple axle. But your lines are amazing. Your grace and lines and cheekbones are giving. It's the hand. There you go. This is why I did tap dance in Not Gale. I wanted to clop all over the place and make as much fucking noise as possible. That's right. That's why. They'll pay. My mom had a make me stop tap dancing down the grocery store aisles. Stop tap dancing. That's what you did too. Right. Or you're home and grab you and say, yeah, she would just grab me by the neck and be like, what do we need to do? Don't wander off. Which meant stop having temper tantrums everywhere you go. I would just, you'd always know where I was because I was clopping down the fucking. Did you do that after a lot of years? Okay. We're creating so much work for the editors in this episode. We're showing them what it's like to be tonning and how chaotic life can be. It's really hard and we understand it. Yeah, but you know what? Leave it all in. We stand by our words. We're leaving it all in. Nothing's getting edited. Yeah. Yay. Everyone go on vacation. Okay. At the Olympics, Tanya tries and fails to land the jump. Which is got to suck. And it's just you can see. That's the thing too about her skating. You can see in her face when she wins and loses in a way you don't think you're supposed to like, yeah. Yeah. That's right. But in a really like cool, powerful, prideful way. Yes. That's awesome. Like she's cheering along with everyone. She's leaving it all on the field. Exactly. Is that the one when she couldn't land it where she had the black velvet outfit on? I think so. I feel like I watched one of these real time. And it was hard to watch. Okay. Madori Ito lands hers. And in the end, Kristi Yamaguchi still takes home the gold for America. Northern California. Girl. Madori Ito takes silver for Japan and Nancy gets the bronze in Tanya's in fourth place. This would potentially be where Tanya and Nancy's Olympic stories are over. They're 22 years old. And the next time the Olympics roll around, they'd basically, they'd be 26. They'd basically aged out for Olympic figure skaters. So that was it. Like fourth place. You're done. But I mean, this is so fateful for two of it is. They get a once in a lifetime break because prior to 1994, the summer and winter Olympics happened in the same year. After the 1992 games, the decision is made to stagger them. And it's decided that there will be another winter Olympics in 1994. And then the summer Olympics in '96, so it can be every four years. So they just like double up on winter and bake it, go back to the fucking Olympics. That is so weird. Yeah. And I feel like I didn't know that as a detail of the story. I didn't know that either. But I'm not as nice getting as you are. She. I think Jewish people don't really. We don't ice skate. Why would we? I don't think I meant into it as much as like I'm more of a, it was such a pulp culture. 100%. Situation. We had Dorothy Hamill, Peggy Flemmett, like we knew their names, you know, always. So this gives all the winter athletes the rare opportunity to compete in another set of Olympic games just two years later. Lucky. So you thought you're done? You practiced for four years to get, or you practiced so hard to get there. And now it's like, okay, guess what you're doing for the next two years? Startin' all over again. That's right. Wow. So, cut to two years later. Let's just fucking go. Yeah, let's just get out there. Let's just go. 24, Tonga and Nancy are back again vying for spots on the next Olympic team. So they still have to compete again to even be on the team. In order to qualify for the Olympics, the skaters will need to first compete at the US championships. To under what it's called. Yes. Especially legs, US, you're skating championships. Yes. But L, posture like legs. For those of you who are very young, that's the Panny Hose brand. Panny Hose, that used to come in plastic eggs. That's right. Like Easter eggs, but Panny Hose. And there it was spelled legs, but like legs. Legs apostrophe E, GGS, and it had its own displays where all of the eggs sat on individual little holders. Yeah. Before there was like, you know, anime toys in Little Bubble, there was fucking Panny Hose and we made our moms give us the fucking container when they were with them. That's right. Every time. Legs. Like all our Barbie shoes were in there. It's such a brilliant way to be like, do you want these Panny Hose that all look like this? Right. Or do you want some in eggs? You want them in eggs? Why don't we put more stuff in eggs? Why don't you stop? Kinder eggs. Kinder one is exactly. Good job. Okay. So in this, during this time, two years, Nancy has gotten additional endorsements and Tanya has pretty much gotten nothing. In 1993, she divorces Jeff, but the way Tanya tells it, and this is fucked up and it seems true, US figure skating authorities urge her to get back together with him so that she can portray this image of stability and traditionalism. They're like, you can't be a divorced ice skater, go back to your abusive husband. Otherwise, you're not going to win the thing that you've been devoting your entire fucking life to. That makes me think, do you think they flipped out when she married him in the first place? Because she was only 20. Yeah. I'm sure. You've seen the videos. You just came with her to all the shows. You kind of had a little sketch with the mustache and-- Yeah. And it's certainly within the realm of possibility that they said that for such an image-focused sport because only in 2004 were women allowed to compete in pants. Like the leggings. They couldn't wear leggings. They had to wear fucking legs. Legs. Legs. A lot of them still won't wear them for fear of getting dinged by the judges because costumes part of your score. Yeah. And so they just don't fucking like the color for the cut. It's a personal preference. Not a fucking. But very dance moms coded like we're just always going to be haunted by these people that are behind a table, you know, waiting to put up a number. And it's like, those are the they in your mind where it's like, they say you shouldn't do it that way. Oh, fucking cares. So that it's dance moms and it's Pagents, Child Pagents. Which is gross. So gross. Yeah. Okay. We're just insulting the entire ice. You don't like anything. Yeah. Also ice. Fuck ice. I meant for the drink, but can we leave fuck ice? Well, yeah, for sure. Right. You like crushed or do you like cubes? Okay. Stop it. That brings us back to your favorite day, January 6th. Always. 1994. In the wake of the attack, Nancy had suffered. So they were aiming for her knee, but they missed. And she suffered a severe bone bruise and the lower right thigh was what ended up getting hit. But they did purposely go for her standing leg. So when she did twirls, she did it on the leg that they hit because she could have kept going. Maybe if she didn't have to like favor that leg. But so they purposely used her her weight bearing leg. Thank you. Yeah. And it was hit with a telescopic baton. Oh, yeah. So like a police baton. But she's like, like, wap. I mean, yeah. So traumatizing. Why? Why? And then her dad picks her up and carries her into the locker room. He had to take her fourth job. Jesus Christ. This is so much worse than I even understood it to be. I know. But her knee is not broken, which is a miracle. So she can't skate in the US championships, which will determine who's going to go to the Olympics. So without Nancy competing, Tonya places first. Oh. And a baby Michelle Kwan. Oh. 13 at the time. And I mean, she looks like a little baby. She places second. So the two. I know. Jesus. So the two of them are technically who were supposed to go represent the US at the Olympics. The committee decides to bump Michelle Kwan. They say to her, look, you're 13. You have other chances. Nancy doesn't. How do you feel about us like switching you guys out? Nancy had couldn't compete. And Michelle, fucking Kwan said, okay, like how graceful is that of her and like fucking cool? Holy shit. Yeah. As a 13 year old, you're like, no fucking you. Judges. Get the judges over here. You're no artist. Fuck you. I am in seventh grade. You're cool. Fuck you. Oh my God. What a generous thing she did. Totally. I mean, even if she didn't want to, it's like amazing. Yeah. And like that had just happened Nancy. I cannot tell you how big of a story this was at the time. This was the biggest story in the US and maybe in the world for a while. Yes. I'm angry about how big it was. So they decide to send Nancy anyway, even though she didn't compete. And so this competition has come to an end. Tanya and Nancy are going to the Olympics, but the frenzy to figure out who attacked Nancy heats up. And I mean, I can't remember if we all knew it was. Lena. We knew. Who didn't know? I think that, well, they just had to get the proof. Yeah. But I feel like what's unfair and really would have been unfair if she wasn't guilty. Tanya just had that look of a girl that like, you don't want to cross her. Absolutely. And then she finds you in the movie theater parking lot. You know, so then it was clearly all those adults were just acting like we know what happened. We can't prove it. We're going to continue as if that's what's going on. Totally. So so shortly after the attack, the coin TV, KOIN in Portland, we know them all. The Portland station receives an anonymous letter claiming that Jeff, Tanya's husband, Tanya and a team of Tanya's bodyguards were responsible for Nancy's injury. One of the producers at the station knows Tanya personally and calls her up about it. And she says, you can look at the letter, but you have to do an interview with me. Like, she fucking did she write that letter? No. Oh, no, she's like, you can see it. You can come to the station and see it, but only if you do an interview with me. Oh, oh, kind of like got it. I don't know if I can do that. I will beat you all into submission. 100%. And then it's like, oh, but you're not pretty enough. It's like, it doesn't matter. I'm going to do it anyway. She was like, if I do it exactly the way you want me to, I'm still going to fail. And so I'm doing it in my fucking way. Yep. And failing on my own terms. Yep. And then still fucking winning. And still showing you how good I am. I mean, she's so impressive. Also being fourth in like a limp and Olympic sport. Yeah. And then she's like, I'm not as, I mean, no one can get close to that. No. That's the, it's, there's people really love to watch TV myself included and they just feel like, oh, that's, that's easy. It's not that big of a deal. It's like, most people can't just go once around. No. And part of ice skating is making it look easy. They don't want you to have like, strain on your face or big thighs, big muscular thighs. They want you to make it look like you're just flying. Because you're just a little lady. And Tom is like, well, fuck you. Tom is like, I'm going to do things other people can't do. And I'm wear a lot of black eyeliner. Well, I did. The thing is that she didn't know she was an autumn. And if we had just gotten some brown eyeliner in there, they would have loved her to death. Absolutely. She could have been a low red head. Yeah. I think I love them both. Okay. So once the competition gets underway, Nancy skates a great short program. Well, Tonya's performance is rocky. I mean, no stress or anything. Yeah, exactly. When it comes for the long program, when Tonya's name is called, it takes her a long time to go on the ice because her shoelace broke. Oh, yeah. And she remembered that. Yeah, she's very specific shoes because of the jumps. And so they couldn't find the laces that were long enough for her. She's freaking out. She gets on the ice very last minute. So stress. Like, can you imagine? I mean, she says like, it's not going to hold me. Like, she knows her shoes are not going to hold her for her jumps. And she also has like a misaligned skate. It's just a mess. And so she fails her first jump. And she begins crying and takes her. Remember, this is the one where she, yeah, I watched all of it. Yeah, I saw it. And also, it's that thing where when I was watching it, and I think there's no way the judges weren't saying this or like the commentators weren't kind of alluding to it. But it's like, how do you with that right behind you go? And so what the second her lace was broken, it was like, to me, I could feel I felt like it was, the pressure was building, building, building like crazy and the like people staring at her. And then it was like, it wasn't the shoelace. You just couldn't, you want to doubt. There's no coming back from that. And yeah, and then that everyone just loved the photo of her face looking out like they ate it up. How devastated she looked. And it's like, you know, everyone was like, you got what you deserve. Like it's just a whole storyline. Everyone loves that kind of like teacher a lesson and you know, you got for Ben, she lay in the bed that you made. Totally. So that's kind of what happened. No one had any sympathy for her. She restarts the program and with the new lace and the routine goes well, but there's no triple axel, nothing, nothing great. And Nancy skates after Tanya. And again, skate's a great program. And it's looking like Nancy might be poised for the gold that everyone is rooting for her because she's America's princess. And she got back on the ice and it's all that she's so brave. Yes, she's a Disney princess. It's braver that Tanya got on the ice. Because aside from physical, I think psychologically, if we're going to do a brave measurement, Tanya wins that one. She refused to apologize to anyone. And you know, she had she had Hotspa. Maybe you can. Maybe you can. Maybe you can. Yeah. But then comes 16 year old oxenibaiul from Ukraine. And sensing that she's probably neck and neck with Nancy, she adds in an unplanned triple toe loop. Whatever the fuck that is. At the end of her program and it ultimately lands her the gold and Nancy gets the silver. Tanya comes in eighth place after all of that. So I think they were hoping that they'd be like neck and neck and you know, no. And it's a really disappointing outcome, of course, for the American sports casting perspective. And unsatisfying end of the biggest sports story of the year, but oxenibai did skate really well. But a lot of people say that the skating community was actually just sick of America's antics. So even though Nancy should have gotten gold and a lot of people argue that they were just like done with America's. Oh, shit. And so gave her silver. So Nancy's double punished. Nancy's double punished. Yeah. Because something she had no control over. Yeah. And she was like, and also wrapped it up. That is, that is so like life where just like you can't hang out in the public eye that long. Right. Without they're going to get fucking sick of you know, they're going to come at you. They're going to come at you. What are we doing? It's 10 fucking years of the show. Oh, we've had that time again. We have, haven't we? I mean, Jesus Christ. We're the Tanya Hardings and Nancy Kerrigan of podcasting. Okay. I think we're the double Tanya Hardings of podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So in March of 1994, right after the games and Tanya makes a plea deal, pleading guilty, conspiracy, to hinder prosecution, she's stripped of her 1994 Olympic eighth place title, which is like take it. You can have it. And she's banned from participating in figure skating and any official capacity for the rest of her life. Jesus. Which kind of sucks. It's the devastating blow that's like what her whole life has been leading up to. But also it means she won't be able to coach or make any money in the skating circuit, you know, when Disney on ice or whatever. She cannot even fucking do that below. So that's her entire life has been dedicated to this thing and she can't make a penny off of it. Yeah. It's all she knows. She didn't even graduate high school. There's some vengeful skating. It's a little, whatever. The skating authority is tough. Yeah. Like let her get on the B level circuit, you know, like let her code. How does it hurt you? They got to like a mega point, no attacking other people's knees for my bare and on in the 2010s after renewed attention to the case. And then also after that, I'm, Tonya movie comes out. Which was so fucking good. I watched over the weekend. Like I didn't think I'd like it. It's so good. It's so funny. She finds more work on reality TV and does better and in 2018. She comes in third on Dancing with the Stars. Did she really? Third is amazing. Amazing for someone who's well, she's a dancer. I guess but not in that sense. And probably not for a while. Yeah. But also Dancing with the Stars is hard. Oh my God. Jesus. Guess what? You're going to be on it now. Could you do it? They asked you. You never. You wouldn't. Fuck no. Why? Because they're just in your business all the time. It's like a reality show of like this is also your life. Okay. And so then it's like you practicing. It's just time. No behind this. There's too much of like any person's like, you know, that's real training. All right. I got to call our agent and tell him you said, no. Nancy has remained deeply involved in the skating community and has commentated for the Olympics. She lives in Massachusetts. And she has, has been in kids. She's very involved in the skating club of Boston. The group that lost many young figure skaters in last year's plane crash in Washington, DC. No. And there's video of her getting a press conference like weeping. It's so sad. Oh. So now do you feel fucking bad? Yeah. Okay. Even worse. Here's something better. She's actually also appeared on Dancing with the Stars several seasons before Tanya. And she came in sixth. Oh, so I think we know who the better athlete is after all these years. They really, the form that it needs to be figured out in Dancing with the Stars. Not the Olympics. Look at us sitting on our butts. Critique. Critiquing. I can talk. Armchair Quarterbacking. That's right. As we love to do. They're out the 90s American figure skating becomes a huge deal with TV specials and national tours. It just wouldn't really like blows up into mainstream. And figure skaters are catapulted to a much higher status of fame and recognition and fucking that those lucrative deals. Yeah. Then they were previously and a lot of people think that Nancy, the whole Nancy versus Tanya spectacle is part of the reason for this. Yeah. That makes sense. Which is a generation of figure skating fans who to this day continue to debate what Tanya knew and when she knew it. And that is the story of the 1994 assault of Nancy Kerrigan. What an incredible Christmas tale. So good for the holidays. It's nothing like is that a Christmas movie? Is this a Christmas story? Yes. Yes it is. It is ice. It's everywhere. But also it's like hopes and dreams and then dreams deferred and what that does to you. It's almost like they did it the Olympic committee did that on purpose of like nobody likes the way that ended up with Kerrigan and Harding. So let's get him back out here. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's wild. Yeah. Amazing story. Thank you. Would a great thing for everyone's vacation? Yeah. I didn't even think of doing it because it's just like such a story from our youth. Like I've just been like, yeah, that's not your crime or like that's just what happened. And it's like, oh, this is fucking. That's when someone's worried. They pull crime into their perfect little world of athleticism and, you know, coaching. And like that's not allowed there. No. Yeah, when Ali and Molly pitched it to me, I was like, oh, I could do that. So good. So I think you guys. Yeah, that was great. That was really good. Thank you. Good job to you too. Thank you. You were a great-- Thank you so much. You were a great-- I'm a sectator and commentator. I was there for a lot of it. Don't remember it accurately, but love chatting. Sure. It's my favorite. Especially a Christmas. Especially. Christmas to you, especially at the holiday times. Thank you. Your holiday is also important. To me. To me. Well, listeners have a lovely holiday, whatever you're celebrating or even not celebrating. That's right. Treat yourself to something nice. You deserve it. Treat yourself to a telescoping weapon of your choice this holiday season. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye. List, do you want a cookie? [SCREAMS] [MUSIC PLAYING] This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith, and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Leonis Kualaci. Our researchers are Marilyn McLachian and Ali Elkin. Email your hometowns to my favorite murder at gmail.com. And follow the show on Instagram at my favorite murder. Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeart radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Or you can watch us on YouTube search for my favorite murder then like and subscribe. Goodbye. The moment you look at the whole picture of the case, Kualaci. Listen to doubt the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeart radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. The media is here. The dating contract. I'm Stephanie Young. Hi listeners. I'm Anison Fields, the host of the girlfriend's spotlight. And I've got some great interviews coming your way. And every single episode of the girlfriend's spotlight 100% ad free. Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like the trail, paper ghosts, pikes in massacre, the brothers or tees, what happened in Nashville, hell and gone, the godmother and more. So don't wait to head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today.