#509 Jason Flom with Manfred Younger

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What a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the okay story time podcast on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers. If you haven't heard, our new podcast is called Hey Jonas. And this week we're hanging out with someone we're really big fan so, Millie Bobby Brown. We talk about her new movie and all of home's three family life and all the amazing things she has going on right now. Plus we find out what she really feels about this ranger things ending. You have over 60 animals. I don't know whether number 60 I really got to figure that out. There have been plenty of sheep in my bed. Yeah, literally sleeping in the bed. Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. On June 17th, 2007, at around 2.30 a.m. bars emptied out into the streets of Camden, New Jersey. Amid the crowd in the parking lot of the seventh and can lounge, gunshots struck 24 year old Tierra Pressley and 32 year old Adrian Jackson. But only Jackson survived and he was unable to offer any leads. About six months later, Jackson was secretly recorded speculating about the identity of his assailants, narrowing his suspects to someone called Baby J and later another called Papa Smurf, which led police to Madford Younger and Anthony Parker. The latter of whom was acquitted, but two jailhouse informants claimed that Madford Younger had admitted to being one of the shooters, sending him away for a minimum of 66 years. This is Ronful Conviction. You're listening to Ronful Conviction. You can listen to this in all the Lava For Good Podcasts one week early and add free by subscribing to Lava For Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Ronful Conviction where we've got a New Jersey case. There haven't been many of those featured here, but that's about to change. And calling in to tell his story from a New Jersey correctional facility, Madford Younger. Madford, thanks for joining us. Thank you, Madford. And joining Madford to help him tell this insane story is a voice you're going to recognize Justin Bonus, who's been spending a great deal of time in Madford's hometown of Camden, New Jersey, where he's been sitting in the office. He's uncovered quite a few cases in a town that has a history of poverty and corruption from law enforcement all the way up to mayors who had promised urban renewal and economic revitalization. Yeah, cause there's no improvement ever in Camden. I think at one point they had four straight mayors that were federally indicted. And then there's a period from like 1990 to 2013 when the Camden County Police Department was so corrupt. Camden has basically taken over by the county in 2012 right before there was a takeover. There were like 60 homicides in a city that's only like 75,000, 80,000 people the most. And they weren't solving them. And then the ones that they were solving, there's a lot of wrongful convictions. But there is a sweet spot that I'm working on from like 99 to like 2011. And the show starts for real with Martin Devlin. Him and his partner Chuck Bentham. They come to Camden from Philly and when Devlin became a supervisor, there's a pattern of single photo identifications and jailhouse informants. Which is exactly what we're dealing with in this case. In our audience, you might recall the detective Martin Devlin from some Philly cases that we covered Jimmy Dennis, Tony Wright, Walter O'Grott, Troy Coleman. And after applying his trade in Philadelphia for 25 long years, he crossed over the bridge into one of the most impoverished cities in all of America, Camden, a Jersey where he continued his career as an investigator in the Camden County Police Department. In the Camden County Prosecutors Office while Manfred was growing up. Yeah, I grew up in the city of Canada, then with my mom and my sister and my father. My father named Manfred J. Younger Senior. So my name Manfred J. Younger Junior. So I got to baby J after my father. I grew up playing community football and stuff. That was good, but we grew up hard. City of Camden, the poverty is messed up out there. We didn't have hot water. We had to eat the house up with the oven. Boyle hot water on the stove. No, where each other clothes, where are your friends clothes? When it rain, when it's the thunderstorm, when snowstorms come through the sill, it's bad in Camden. 95% of the people is poor. Our population is only 70,000 people. We get overlooked only reason why we get notices because the crime rate other than that, we don't have nothing. Your mom and them had to have money though, like growing up. If not, you have to go to the street. It ain't a excuse, but time get hard desperation. And that's when I went to the streets. And Fritz perspective, dealing drugs and carrying a gun was necessary for survival in Camden, all of which made him vulnerable to prosecution, as well as violence street violence. And one of the victims in this case, Adrian Jackson, well, he was in the same boat. Although he wasn't exactly manfred's contemporary. And he was a manfred Jackson is significantly older than manfred younger by a lot. Everyone believed that Adrian Jackson was the target. He has issues with older people in the drug world in Camden, who manfred had some type of affiliation with, but there was never any real connection here. Like that, all of God older than me. Adrian Jackson had also cooperated in a case in the late 90s. So there were motivated parties on the night that he was shot. None of whom were manfred. And along with Jackson, an innocent young woman named Tierra Pressley had also been shot. It was a Saturday night, June 16 into the early hours of June 17, 2007, when both victims were out on the town with Tierra's cousin, Tia Hannah. They're at a place called seventh in Canaan, what they would consider the downtown area of Camden, New Jersey at around 230 in the morning is when they leave out of the bar. Last call is 2 a.m. in New Jersey. So everyone else was leaving with them emptying out into this dirt parking lot next to the bar. That was adjacent to the projects. Now it was a warm night where folks were already hanging out in front of their buildings as well. And Adrian Jackson is talking to Tierra and Tia, I guess, walked off a little bit with another woman named Maisha, run at Brown. It's not well lit and two men came out of nowhere and fired a lot of shots. Pressley was hit six seven times. Jackson was hit over 10 times the way he shot it. It's very difficult to determine whether he could have seen it because he's like shot inside and then he's like spun around when he shot. Tia Hannah and a man named John Frailin ushered Tierra into her car and drove it to the hospital. Curiously though, without Adrian Jackson. Yeah, Jackson stays at the scene. And he's just standing there and people are like freaked out. His adrenaline had kicked in so much. And then at some point, I think he sits down and passes out or something and then he gets picked up. Namuel and take some to the hospital. So by the time police had arrived, the crowd had dispersed, including Maisha, run at Brown and her boyfriend Richard Barge, who becomes important later. But for now, the police forego, a vigorous canvas for eyewitnesses and instead they hope to speak with the victims as well as Tia Hannah. Jackson lived amazingly. Tierra dies, unfortunately. This was an innocent girl that was killed. Everybody knew that this was a very big deal. These are not people that didn't want to cooperate. But Tia Hannah tells the prosecutor's office investigator, Diane Wilson over and over again, I can't make an idea. Right. And Jackson, I mean, it's only by the grace of God that this man's alive. I mean, he spun around like a top. He was in the hospital for over a month before he became coherent to speak. And I mean, Adrian Jackson is a criminal. Okay, he has a terrible background. But let me be clear with you, Adrian Jackson cooperated before. So this is not a guy that's apprehensive to talk to the police and Adrian Jackson tells them, look, I was drunk when I came out. I don't know who shot me and he's like, you seem like you don't believe me. by knew who it was, I would tell you. - And so, without any legitimate leads, the investigation kinda switched course, it changed tactics right around the same time that Manfred was arrested for an unrelated matter on July 15th, 2007, possession of an illegal firearm. - I'm from the city of Canada, so I got caught with a weapon. That's the only way you know how to protect yourself. I was in the corner store again, something to eat, and then the cops ran in there, 'cause they was doing a search of like a drug area, and then they searched me and I had a gun on me. I didn't have it legally. So, anytime, say if a homicide had to or shoot what happened, and you might get locked up with drugs or whatever, being a dove, you from that area where it happened, they would try to question you and get you to act like you know something. You see what I'm saying? And Diane Wilson, she comes in there, I don't know her, she don't know me. So, being a dumb young, she probably figured like, oh well, he might want to get out of this case. So, she started asking me about crime around the area, and I just, this murder, several murders. And I'm like, now I don't know nothing. So, that was my first run-in with her. So, now, that's where she was familiar with the name Baby J, but I had bailed out from that weapon, Charles. I came back home three days after I was home. I had another case out in another county, Gloucester County. I had drugs that time. - I cleared guilty to probation in 90 days sentence. So, I went to Gloucester County for like 72 days, then I came home. - September 24. - And while Manfred was still in Gloucester County jail on the drug charge, Diane Wilson interviewed Adrian Jackson again on September 6, 2007. - They press him again, okay. And I believe they actually dropped Manfred's name and nickname, which is Baby J. The important part about that nickname is, there's five other Baby J's in Camden. Jackson again tells them, I don't know who shot me, okay. And the date of that second interview for Adrian Jackson is a very big deal. - And we'll get to why in just a minute, but first around three weeks later, Manfred was released from Gloucester County. And was picked up again three days after his release on September 27, with his friend, Jeffrey Jones. - Well, we got pulled over by Camden County police, but we got the dispatch from the police station where that cop said I'm behind that van with Baby J in them and there. So obviously, somebody had to tell him about who was in the van. You giving them the van? He lied on the report and said we was driving the van. Basically, like it was a regular traffic stop and I had a gun. Then I was convicted already for the drug. Once you get a conviction, the state you, the turn it over to the fed, that's when the federal patrol charge is called possession. I was with the barcaduct of the cells. And I got locked back up September 27. Three days I was home. So I had a pull attorney. The first thing he said is, they don't want you, they want your boy. Jones was my coldest son. They believed that I know all this stuff. Like I don't know that guy like that. So basically, you were saying like, you give up information on him, they let you go. So I'm this collateral damage. I took a flat rate, please, 60 months for the gun charge. All this has been 2007 and I've never seen this case again. Five years in federal prison was able to eventually morph into a much longer state sentence, starting with a man named Troy Lone. Troy Lone got caught with a gun. He wanted the way out of prison. So he told Detective Wilson that Adrian Jackson told him who did that to him. So Troy Lone wore a tape recorder on Jackson and wanted to tape recorder. Jackson, he said he seen nobody and then he just, he was speculated and they was talking about all these other old murders and Jackson emitting to the drug game. He's also on wiretapped stand. He lied in another murder trial and then placed the self out of scene of a murder and he wasn't even there. So he's already got a pattern of lying fabricating story. But the prosecutor's office doesn't care about that. And this is what's so outrageous about the serif and he's got a lot of suspicious audio recording. He's going through in his mind who he thinks may or may not have done this. So Jackson starts talking about the fact that he has beef with these older gentlemen and who is affiliated with these older gentlemen. And now understand this, he knows a nickname, which is Baby J. He admits he doesn't know Baby J. He said it couldn't have been this guy named Sean. So it had to be Baby J. And any mentions that another guy as a driver, understand as there were multiple people that watched two shooters run from the scene and not get into a car. They just ran from the scene, right? So he's guessing. And by the process of elimination, he says it's probably Baby J. As we know, Baby J also happens to be Manfred's nickname, but he's not the only Baby J in Camden. The other nickname Jackson eventually mentioned was Papa Smurf, a.k.a. Anthony Parker, who in turn became Manfred's co-defendant. Interestingly with Jackson in the audio to Troy Looney, did not identify Papa Smurf initially, Anthony Parker. And again, this goes to show you that this guy, Jackson, is just guessing. And Jackson's unreliability was also made clear by something else that he said on this audio recording. Jackson specifically said that on September 6th of 2007, when he came out of the prosecutor's office, after they're asking him about Manfred Younger, and he doesn't know who this is, that he sees Baby J. Driving, and he wanted to kill him and doesn't do it because it's broad daylight. So there's a huge problem with that, which is that Manfred Younger is incarcerated at that point. So whoever he saw could not have been Baby J. or at least a Baby J. and that's Manfred Younger. It's impossible. This episode of "Romphal Conviction" is proudly sponsored by U.R.E. PTSD Now. Every day, countless individuals face the invisible wounds of trauma and PTSD. Your support empowers us to provide life-changing treatments like the Steli Ganglion Block, SGB, which inhibits nerve impulses and helps to restore hope, reclaim lives, and save lives after incarceration. Together, we can ensure that those wrongfully convicted receive the care they need to heal and reintegrate into society. Join us in this mission to erase PTSD and uplift our communities. Visit eraseptsdnow.org. That's eraseptsdnow.org from more information and ways to get involved. Hey, everyone. It's the Jonas Brothers. If you haven't heard, our new podcast is called "Hey, Jonas." And this week, we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of. Milly Bobby Brown. That's right. 11 herself. This is-- Of course. --blue my mind when I saw this. Milly Bobby Brown. First of all, how do you even keep track of everybody? And second, do you have favorites? Who are they? And why? Yeah, I need to know about this. OK. I don't know where the number 60, and I really got to figure that out. And I could actually have over 60. I just need to really know that number. And it's a big bed. It's a big bed. In the bed, literally sleeping in the bed, yeah. Plus, we find out what she really feels about stranger things and five seasons, almost 10 years of your life. I could have never have guessed it. I started when I was 10 years old. Our conversation with Milly Bobby Brown is out now. Go check it out. Listen to "Hey, Jonas," on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hota Kotby, host of the podcast, "Joy 101 with Hota Kotby." OK, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ, Sean Johnson, revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy 101 with Hota Kotby on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC PLAYING] My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin. Samira, Y, Gracie. I'm so excited. On the bouncy bed. You have surprises. Many surprises. Welcome to Sweet 305, where the good chat comes to life. What a f---- [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [BEEP] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [MUSIC PLAYING] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] You're the only person I know that loves the Yellow Starbursts. [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [MUSIC PLAYING] This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lille Ponds as part of my "Toldura Podcast Network" on the I Heart Way. you up, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. The name baby Jay came up. That's when Diane Wilson went for throttle. She called Jackson and said, we got new information. You know who did this to you. Jackson stated again, I told you, I don't know who it was. But when she pushed you play, he got scared for all the criminating statements he made about being a big time drug dealer having guns. And he gave the name baby Jay with no hairstyle, no nothing, no race, no nothing. So she went and got one picture of me and showed him. Diane Wilson shows him a photo and says this is the guy, right? He says yes. They went to him with one photo, not a photo or a one photo of me. That is the evidence that gets man-free younger arrested. At this point, it's summer 2008. Manfred was already at federal custody on this September 27th, the gun charge. And he was brought in for his arrangement. I go in the courtroom to get my bell. Diane Wilson get to your Hannah and to your Hannah on words. Diane Wilson get hurt to point me out at our Raymond heron. She's very adamant that she couldn't make an identification until the arrangement. And I mean, come on, the guys getting a rain for the murder of your cousin. And she's with Diane Wilson, T. R. Pressley's family. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere a year and a half later, you say, yeah, he's the one. So Diane Wilson and the Canon City Police know that they have a really weak case. And Devlin is supervising us. And we have a pattern here of then go to the jailhouse informants, which is Jamie Channer and Jamal Gibbs. When you go to federal prison, if you from Jersey, you wrote with Jersey people, if you're Muslim, you run with the Muslims, if you whatever click you run with, that's your crew. So amongst your crew, you got people who's productive for the people of your crew. And you need help with your case. You go to the Muslim power league. Tanner, we even are apparently Jamie Channer was a jailhouse lawyer that helped manfried with the I believe it's the extradition process for gun charge that is totally unrelated. So he sees the probable cause statement, the criminal complaint come through. So he knows the name of the deceased and the guy who gets shot doesn't know anything other than that. He writes Camden County prosecutor office and bargain with them and say, I know information about a murder, but I want three years off. He didn't give the information in the initial letter. So Diane Wilson calls him. Jamie Channer says, Hey, this guy admitted to this murder over and over and over again, he's writing letters to Diane Wilson. And the information was basically wrong and develops over time. He spoke to that guy five times. If I tell you I have a red Mustang today, five years later, I should tell you I have a red Mustang. Every time he talk to her, he come back with additional information. Even after five conversations, he still got the details wrong. In the statement that developed, Channer said that Jackson shielded himself behind Presley, which is contradicted by witnesses and the forensics. Then he gets the motive wrong as well. Channer said it was a gang initiated motor, a blood initiated Diane Wilson stipulated that she know I wasn't blood and that wasn't even a motor, but she still allowed him to say that in front of a jury. Then him comes Jamal Gibbs. In October of 2009, they go get Jamal Gibbs, who's a serial cooperator. Now Jamal Gibbs's handler is Jim Pesano, but Jamal Gibbs is very close friends with Martin Devlin. I have information from another case that Gibbs actually refers to Martin Devlin as Sarge doing it interview. The cops know exactly who he's talking about. Devlin was supervising Manfred Younger's investigation. And Jamal Gibbs is an admitted killer by this point. He's pled guilty. He's looking to get out of jail and says presumably at the behest of Devlin that baby J admitted the homicide to me. When I was in a county, I was going to protect the custody status. So it's no way we can interact. No way. The interesting thing about that is by this point Gibbs is cooperating against like 10 people. So everybody in the Camden County jail knows that your mall Gibbs is a cooperate. He was jumping in people cases like anytime your cases week, Jamal Gibbs ended up inside the case to cooperate to the motor or a theory to strengthen the case like the whole jail knew stay away from that guy because he alive fabricate information to get out his own murder. Why would Manfred Younger tell him he committed a murder? Never mind that he didn't even have an opportunity to do so. Thankfully, other guys came forward to Manfred's attorney to discredit Gibbs, which became part of trial strategy. When Manfred and his co-defendant, Anthony Parker, were tried to march 2011, where the state had about five main witnesses, including Tihanna, who had previously IDed Manfred at his arraignment. She recants an ID trial. The prosecutor tried to get her to say it's me Tihanna said, I don't know. I didn't see the guy I say, but she she in the description of Brown Skin guy was sure hair. So the prosecutor say point to the Brown Skin guy point to the Brown Skin guy. My Lord, he objected even the judge says that that was wrong. It was teetering over the line. And then she gives an affidavit recanting the ID and saying, this is my cousin, they basically coerced me into making an identification in this case. John Frailin also testified about driving to Europe, wrestling to the hospital and how Tihanna had said, even then that she couldn't identify the shooter. Hannah's essentially eliminated, but again, the jury sees her point Manfred out in the courtroom. The state also presented Troy Lone, who spoke about recording Jackson's speculation about his shooters, naming baby Jay, then Adrian Jackson, IDed Manfred as baby Jay from the stand. What the jury never hears is that on September 6th of 2007, when Adrian Jackson says he's leaving the prosecutor's office and says that he sees Manfred younger and wanted to kill him that could not have been Manfred younger because Manfred younger was incarcerated. It's my belief that the attorney did not present that information because he did not want to admit that his client had a criminal record in front of the jury. But that's a huge piece of evidence that Adrian Jackson did not know who Manfred younger was and his identification is wholly unreliable. Then Adrian Jackson, ID Danthony Parker as Papa Smurf, but the attorneys did cross examine Jackson about not being able to identify his assailants for his first three interviews. The evidence against Anthony Parker was strictly Adrian Jackson and that's it. And look at who got acquitted and who got convicted. It's my belief. That's why the jailhouse informants were so critical in this case. I mean, they were mentioned in the opening statement and then they were mentioned a lot in summation by the prosecutor. And the jailhouse informants were focused solely on Manfred. As we already said, Jamie Lee Channer statement was unsupported by reality. Manfred was not a blood and was not ordered by the bloods to kill Jackson. Diane Wilson stipulated to that. Additionally, Jackson had not used Presley as a human shield. There was no getaway driver. And he also said that Manfred did the shooting alone. It's just shocking that you rely like that. Even the ballistic show two shooters, two different guns, two different shell cases, all the witnesses say two shooters, but he lied and say, I did it myself like the physical evidence outweighs what he talking about. Jamie Lee Channer, even admitted in his own trial testimony that after Manfred younger left the federal facility that he was in, he was getting more information to give to the prosecutor. Are you kidding me? That means that heat presumably was being fed information from the prosecutor's office. The whole purpose of a jailhouse informant is the person says out of their mouth that they committed this crime, right? It's called the statement against penal interest. It goes against the defendant's interests to admit to committing a crime. So therefore, it is assumed that those statements are reliable. The problem with that is when you have a witness that has a tremendous incentive to lie about what that person said, the prosecutor lies there. She didn't give them nothing. He lied and said he was coming forward to protect the public, but all alone, he got a favor. Right after Manfred younger get sentenced, the prosecutor in the case writes a letter to a federal judge saying he provided substantial assistance, give him a time cut. But Jamie Channer says, I didn't get anything from my testimony. And without this, an even more impeachment evidence that was discovered after trial, Channer's testimony appeared believable as did Jamal Gibbs, who also claimed to have received nothing in return when he testified that he knew Presley from high school and press Gibbs about the senseless killing. Are you the professional snitch Jamal Gibbs that come up with a theory and a motive to inflame the jury? The theory was that Jeffrey Jones, Manfred's co-defendant from the federal gun charge ordered him to kill Jackson for some slight and that Jackson grabbed Presley again with the unsupported human shield narrative and Gibbs alleged that when press further, Manfred responded, and this is a quote, fuck that bitch. She all out there in the way, man, she got to get handled. A to 80 cripple and crazy, they can get it, man, it don't even matter, man, fuck her. And quote, which is incredibly inflammatory, obviously, but Manfred's lawyer had seven rebuttal witnesses, including Milton Gardner and Brian Martinez. Milton Gardner testifies that Gibbs is what they call jumping on people's cases, that this is a practice of his, of finding people's cases and getting on them from a time cut. And we have information that Gibbs was also getting discovery from the prosecutor's office, presumably Martin Devlin, to make his trial testimony more accurate, and that Gibbs was recruiting other people. Brian Montenez testified that he was approached by Jamal Gibbs, that Gibbs was actively seeking cooperators. And Martin has knew Martin Devlin because of Gibbs. It's discovered later that even more witnesses had discredited Gibbs that didn't make it into the defense trial strategy, but at least some damage was done. The prosecutor harped on the credibility of Jamie Lee Channer, and Jamal Gibbs, over and over again, because the identification in the case was so weak. At the time, you believe like these guys ain't got no credibility. The jury didn't believe Jackson. I had to read back on Channer and Gibbs. I trusted the process thinking that the process was fair, but it obviously is not. Basically, they went with Channer and Gibbs. Then that's when they came back with the guilty verdict. I didn't even go in there. I was in the bullpen, because something had happened with the sheriff's officer. So my lawyer basically came back and told me the news. If you haven't heard, Arnie Podcast is called, "Hey, Jonas." And this week, we're hanging out with someone where really big fans of. Millie Bobby Brown, that's right, 11 herself. We talk about her new movie and All of Home's 3, Family Life, and all the amazing things thing she has going on right now. Of course. Well, I blew my mind when I saw this, Willy Bobbie Brown. First of all, how do you even keep track of everybody in second? Do you have favorites? Who are they and why? OK. I don't know whether number 60, and I really got to figure that out. And-- Yeah, in the bed. In the bed, literally, sleeping in the bed. Yeah. Plus, we find out what she really feels about stranger things in there. Five seasons, almost 10 years of your life. Our conversation with Willy Bobbie Brown is out now. Go check it out. Listen to Hey Jonas on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm HotaCotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with HotaCotby. OK, if you know me, you know this. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer. And that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum repression. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice. But to be a gymnast. Listen to Joy 101 with HotaCotby on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin. Samira E. Gracie. I'm so excited. On the bouncy bed. You have surprises. Many surprises. What up? [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] Except for my kids, my kids know. [MUSIC PLAYING] Yes. [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] You're the only person I know that loves the Yellow Starbursts. [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [MUSIC PLAYING] This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Ponds as part of my "Tultura Podcasts Network" on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC PLAYING] Manfred received two consecutive sentences, 60 years for the murder, and 18 years for the attempted murder, a 78-year sentence with parole eligibility after 66 years. And the sentence began while he was serving out his five-year federal sentence. Most of my time, I stayed in the county because I had the court situation with this case, though, the time almost was up anyway. You believe that the pill process take like a year, 18 months, but I had time anyway, so that's how I looked at it. Like, I'd be back on a pill. So then after that, I came here from Kansas County. Some in New Jersey State Prison now, Nasson Secure Facility. In federal prison, you get to go out all day from 6.30 AM to 9 PM, you out the room. But here, you lock down all day. Basically, you get your every other day. You get the shower, you get to use the kiosk. The cell is the size of a bathroom, smaller than the bathroom. 4x6 cell. I work out, listen to music, talk to my family, watch TV, put a first and most part follow the law. It's hard, man. A lot of guys lose their mind down here. It's a rough spot, but you just got to only focus to get out of jail. When I came here, my mind frame, like I said, you be thinking you trust the process because you're innocent. So you get a lawyer on direct the pill automatically. God, that don't know no better, leave it up to the lawyer, and they don't do no research. But I still was young, so I came down here playing bad for running around. So my mind frame was let the lawyer do everything. So then, as I got older and started figuring her out, now I help myself help the lawyer. I cut my TV off and went through all my trial transcripts and stuff. That's when I started finding new evidence that wasn't presented at trial that basically shows improved that I've been framed, that is crime. One major development was Richard Barge. Not only was he another Jamal Gibbs victim, but he also was an eyewitness who had come forward to Manfred's attorney, pretrial. When we was in the county back in 2009, he was like, yo, man, tell your lawyer to contact me, man. You ain't do that shit. So I told my lawyer about it. So he went to see Richard Barge. And he tells him that he was out there that night with a woman who Tihanna says is at the scene. And that girlfriend was Maisha Brown, the person Tihanna was next to when the shots rang out. He says that Manfred Younger isn't one of the shooters, that he was actually standing in the general vicinity of where Adrian Jackson and Tihar Presley were standing when the shots rang out. And he knows Manfred Younger. And he says that Younger is not one of the shooters. Unfortunately, Manfred Younger's lawyer never calls Richard Barge. My lawyer was like, well, I believe he was there, but the jury might not believe him because both of y'all got Jamal Gibbs and Y'all K. - Which seems like a colossal lapse in judgment, considering which Jamal Gibbs testified to in Barge's trial. - In Richard Barge's case, he actually testified that Richard Barge admitted to a homicide via sign language. - But when this ineffective counsel claim was presented at a postconviction hearing, Manfred's attorney was also called to the stand where he had trouble recalling his interaction with Richard Barge or with Manfred about using Barge. - Yeah, he was old already, he was 80 years old. So when he came to the PCR area, he was even way off track. - Nevertheless, the judge decided to error on the side of Defense Counsel's murky recollection of his final trial after a 36 year career. But this wasn't Defense Counsel's only misstep. As we mentioned, counsel never raised the problem with Jackson's ID. Illustrated by his alleged spotting of Baby J on September 6, 2007, while Manfred was incarcerated in Closter County jail. So Manfred's PCR motion was denied in 2018, but so much more has been discovered since then. - Number one, that Jamie Lee Channer, who testified a trial he did not receive a benefit that he was doing this out of the kindness of his heart. He absolutely received a benefit, received a time cut. He received support from the Camden County Prosecutor's Office to get out of jail. Jamal Gibbs testified that he was not receiving anything for his testimony. Now this guy played guilty to manslaughter. He's a killer, Jamal Gibbs. He pleads guilty to manslaughter, at sentencing, the judge is gonna hear all the cooperation right and consider that in. So his trial testimony that he's, he already received his deal that he expects to get five years. That's what he says. I expect to get five years, guy gets five years for killing a person. It turns out he got money and housing for his testimony. So he got money, housing, and the sweet deal of just five years for murder. Wow. - And what's interesting about this guy is this. His child's mother comes forward and says that he admitted to her that he was lying in case was to get out of jail. I forget what his saying is, why do 10 when you can lie on 10, all this, why do 10 when you can lie on a friend or something like that? That was his thing and it's come out. in the investigation he did not like man for younger but his baby mother comes forward provides a sworn statement to an investigator says that he admitted the lying in case to her and that he shot up her house because he thought she was taught to the Camden County prosecutors the second he gets out of jail he shoots her house up she goes to the Camden County prosecutors office in a barrier they refuse to help her so we've established that Channer and Gibbs were not telling the truth and were incentivized to lie but now there are witnesses to corroborate Richard Barger's statement and man for innocence. There's a gentleman by the name of Antoine Stanley who was also out there that night who said that he sees the shooters run up and that man for younger couldn't have been one of them he knew man for younger couldn't be man for younger another witness Darryl Demby Troy Lones nephew by the way who actually says that Troy Lones suggested to Adrian Jackson that baby Jay was the killer and then of course there's what has come out about Martin Devlin in Philadelphia and it appears that his conduct only continued in Camden the single photo identifications supported by incentivized jailhouse niches. It's a pattern in that office that begins to really take shape in the 90s and guess who arrived in the 90s Martin Devlin I mean they have a pattern of saying that if you live in Camden then you know everybody in Camden therefore we can just show anyone a single photo and let them identify anybody everybody knows everybody in Camden if you ask the Camden police department and the prosecutors office everybody knows everybody that's just not true it's systemic it's endemic man for younger from my investigation is an innocent man that's been sitting in prison for 15 years for crime he didn't commit a murder he didn't commit and this is something he's been fighting since day one after Justin picked up man for its case in 2022 he shared the case with the New Jersey Attorney General's conviction review unit but they ran into trouble it's actually quite heartbreaking because that C.R.U. and New Jersey they did not finish their investigation and essentially there's deadlines with evidence and it's within a year of me discovering the deal that Jamie Channer gets I had to go to the court with that so I had to essentially make a move for Manfred because I can't let a Brady claim as strong as what we have with Jamie Lee Channer sit that he received a deal when really his testimony was he was a saint you know what I mean like he's mother to research something just a concern citizen out of the goodness of his heart the guys a liar I couldn't do that and I've discovered other evidence that with Gibbs I mean we knew the Gibbs had got money in housing and all Gibbs got paid $10,000 in a house and he lied to other cases and they didn't turn that over and now we have confirmation of that he cooperated in more I think they mentioned four cases to defense counsel he cooperated in he cooperated in over 10 and that's astounding in a place of smallest Camden I mean it's like so everybody who committed a murder that was sitting in Kenner County jail is telling you that they committed the murder and give he just recently recanted to the attorney general office saying I didn't tell him nothing he admitted that I didn't confess to him this is new all this new the plan is the file of PCR based upon actual innocence significant Brady violations based upon what's called the fraud upon the court which is that witnesses lied at trial and the prosecutor knew that they lied at trial by the prosecutors own file is there any thing that our audience could do to help besides sharing this episode obviously is at least a first step oh yeah I just want y'all to support you hear it was going on everything I'm saying is facts it's not freestyle and the facts is documented everything is on paper number one they need to reach out the Matthew Plackett who's the attorney general about Camden County number two they should write the governor but number three they need to really put pressure on the Camden County prosecutor's office you could go to my Instagram and check everything out free underscore mafret and you get to see what your own your own I well we're gonna have that length of the episode description and with that we're gonna go to closing arguments where first of all I think both of you from the bottom of my heart for joining us and now I'm just gonna kick back in my chair with my microphone off of my headphones on and just listen to anything else you feel is left to be said Justin you're gonna go first and Fred you'll take us off into the sunset manfred is not the only case like this okay I represented a gentleman by the name of Taron Hill who was exonerated in 2021 and Taron Hill almost spot on with manfred single photo to jailhouse informants and through the course of the attorney general's conviction review units investigation determined that the jailhouse informants were unreliable one of them were candid at trial and then the identification of Taron Hill was unreliable because of the single photo same thing as man for younger and I have other cases in Camden County this is systemic what's going on here they took this man and they threw him in the garbage can was mother is getting up in age he does not want to die in prison it's heartbreaking and the Camden County prosecutor's office thinks that people are just gonna go away I'm not going away my name is Justin bonus nice to meet you it ain't just me it's the same pattern with the same guy that pops up in everybody case it's four guys down here with me now they got one single photo jailhouse snitch rich or bar one photo with the same jailhouse snitch Jamal Gibbs in about 15 cases murder cases just to save his own behind because he has his own murder trial he got five years for his own case murder attempted murder bank robbery and 10,000 hours in the house this is fabricate stories on innocent people the same pattern same group of detectives Diane Wilson James Osano Martin Devlin Jane Bruno is the same detective same pattern same wrong doing it in the city of Camden New Jersey so all they care about is conviction and the problem is being as though we come from a poor young black community we don't have the resources or we don't have media attention so they get away with it and then the judges and the prosecutors they took an oath to do the right thing but they don't they dirty they they do people wrong all they care about is the conviction and we don't have nobody to help us we need all the help we can get any exposure any help out of city of Camden thank you for listening to wrongful conviction you can listen to this and all the lava for good podcasts one week early and add free by subscribing to lava for good plus on apple podcasts i want to thank our production team Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Campler Kevin Wartus and Jeff Clyburn the music in this production was supplied by three time Oscar nominated composer Jay Rouse be sure to follow us across all social media platforms at lava for good and at wrongful conviction you can also follow me on instagram at it's Jason Flom wrongful conviction is a production of lava for good podcasts and association with signal company number one we have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate the views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of lava for good joy is essential and it's also elusive but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence joy 101 it's a new podcast hosted by me how to copy if you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats open your free iHeartRadio app search joy 101 and listen now joy 101 with hodocatby is presented by cvs my husband is a despot reserved with his mistress right now and i'm calling the hotel to confront them both wait a minute to go to she's calling the hotel while they're checked in together yeah that's right so fear and it gets worse it's vacate the vacation week on the okay story time podcast where she caught him buying gifts on amazon and then taped the 10 page letter inside his luggage before he flew out so she planted evidence before he even took off and spoiler sofia two years later karma hits so hard he's calling his ex-wife in tears saying about his mistress when a mistake that was to find out what happened listen to the okay story time podcast on the iHeart Radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts hey everyone it's the Jonas Brothers if you haven't heard our new podcast is called hey Jonas and this week we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of millie bobby brown we talk about her new movie in all of home's three family life and all the amazing things she has going on right now plus we find out what she really feels about this ranger things ending you have over 60 animals i don't know whether number 60 i really got to figure that out there have been 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