#504 Maggie Freleng with Brandon Spencer

Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101, it's a new podcast hosted by me, Hota Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on air chats. Listen to Joy 101 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy 101 with Hota Kotby is presented by CVS. Paul Versey here and I want to talk to you about Paul's best podcast. I sit down each week with a special guest and we discuss the absolute best of things. He's David's. It's that and then there's everything else. Dude, his whole life is sounded like the first drop of a roller coaster. I mean, I can't even tell you Paul, how curious it was. It was insane. Listen to Paul's best podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stephanie Young. The hit podcast Love Trap is back with new updates in the case of Laura Owens. This is CR 2025 State Versus Laura Owens. I think she really believes that she still has an out. I'm quite confident that they're up to something. We're following the case live as the criminal charges finally come to a conclusion. Trust us when we tell you as the victims of Laura Owens, she will not stop. Listen to Love Trap. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for you think. We're going to tell Link. Hey, my yellow is a famous before you ask her question. Yeah. So I wrote this book. It's called "To Kill a Monkard Bird." Right? So I was kind of feeling like the modern day, kind of Robinson. And I could say that I've never related to them because better than anybody because I know where it feels like it'd be false to be accused. And in that book, like, tells what happens to someone that looks like me. In our judicial system. This is Brandon Spencer. I've known Brandon since 2020 when I first reported on his case. Brandon, you were so young when you went to prison. How old were you? I was a little bit arrested at 19, but when I actually went to the TV show, I was 21. Brandon grew up in prison. He's been in over 12 years, but has never lost the quirks and charm that make him him. The kind of guy who talks about himself in the third person. Brandon Spencer is probably, I would say, the modern man, Deli. First appearance, as he's having an asome, the brilliance, the fortitude and space of this adversity. Brandon used to want to be an actor. I like to be a little smith. That was my hide over here. Especially when I was younger than a fresh sense of Deli, that was my story. A lot of people told me I said, "Who come?" I was really good. It was just free to stand up there joking. I'm just a natural joke, so I get the taste up off the grip. Would you describe yourself as a goofball? Yes, I believe I still am. A lot of people are here saying that I'm always laughing at joking. So they say, "Oh, that's how you cope with this." I said, "Well, you know, laugh is the best minute." I don't know how to put it. He is like a bundle of just positivity. This is Claudia Salinas, Brandon's attorney. I'm a pretty positive person and I'm always looking at like best case scenario, but I think he even tops me. That's kind of a stuff to do. But Brandon is also very serious, particularly about personal development. This is philosophy of psychology, called post-traumatic growth. So it said that post-traumatic growth enables us in times of difficulties or struggle or traumatic experience of greater life for ourself, has more meaning for more purposeful and more fulfilling than ever. So what is it to you only makes us stronger? So I had that mindset that I either get victim and while we're in self-pity for what happens in me, or I can use this time wisely and cultivate myself and develop myself to the very best person of my show. From Lafay for Good, this is wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling. I'll bring this prisoner. I've been a long-sleeved convicted for the past 12 years. Today, Brandon Spencer. Brandon Spencer was born November 3rd, 1992. He grew up with three siblings in a well-off upper middle-class household in Inglewood, California. His family went to church together and Brandon played soccer, baseball, and did martial arts. For vacations, Brandon and his family would travel to Mississippi and St. Louis, where his parents were from. So we kind of were like, "But he knew our cousins and where we came from." I had a really good childhood, I can't really complain about it. But Brandon says when he was 12, his parents divorced. But I was pretty hard on me to see that separation. So that kind of played a key role in my life. Being young, I was confused. I kind of blame myself, maybe, because my dad was as well as much. Feeling the weight of the divorce, Brandon started associating with the wrong crowds. Inglewood, California has a long history of gangs and violence. In fact, Brandon was born just months after one of the most infamous events in US history. The LA riots. After a group of police officers were acquitted of beating Rodney King, a black man, the city erupted in anger. Protesters took to the streets and rioted for days. The heart of every American aches at the side of the violence, deaths, and hundreds of millions of dollars of destruction in Los Angeles. Yesterday, the violence spread to Atlanta, Seattle, San Francisco. But the pain and fear is now being felt all across this nation. Over 50 people were killed and thousands injured. Brandon's neighborhood was hit hard. When Brandon was growing up in the 90s and early 2000s, the violent crime rate in Inglewood was significantly higher than the US average. Systemic and structural racism forced people to seek other means of survival and gangs were rampant. So Brandon's as his parents worried about him as a young teen, upset over the divorce, they thought he would be susceptible to the outside influence of gangs. So they tried sending him to Mississippi to live with family. So what was living in Mississippi like? It was lower than California's California. I was six, because California's way faster. So, there's kind of life in the country. Too slow for Brandon, so he went back to Inglewood. It's what he knew it was home. He went to a few different schools before graduating from high school in 2010, with dreams of pursuing acting. But gang life always wound in the background. I was in the corner from one house. I had to go to the store or go to rallies. I remember one time my mom was so scared to get out the car. I had rallies one time. That's the corner where we lived. I was like, "Mom's the order, but I go to school with you." I was like, "What are they doing?" But I gave her perspective. It was scary, but you have to know these people. Just like my mom was scared. I was able to get out the car. I always had rain, but she'd go in the water and just get the burden from my mom and she'd say, "What's she gonna do?" She said, "You're gonna be a goofy, goofy, to me, like that lifestyle." Brandon says he was never part of a gang, but they were almost impossible to avoid. And the repercussions of growing up around that life would be impossible to escape. Hey, I'm Hota Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hota Kotby. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're gonna have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum repression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice, but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy 101 with Hota Kotby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My husband is currently on vacation with his mistress and I'm confronting them. Tell me, Sophia, how did she even catch them? One Amazon shopping receipt. He accidentally sent her a photo of the kid's Christmas gifts with a delivery to another woman at the bottom. He exposed himself? That's a rookie move. Couples' massages, monogrammed bath robes, and lingerie he met motor for. So she spent four weeks gathering evidence, and taped a 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. In his luggage, she came to play. And the second he landed, he blocked her. So she called the hotel room directly and got the mistress on the phone. Ooh, she got the mistress live on the phone. That is a bold move. Let's see if it pays off. Then it gets worse. He took the mistress on the Bahamas honeymoon trip. He had planned with his wife, and then the mistress tagged him on Facebook, outing the fare to her entire family. That's like a whole public confession. And spoiler two years later, karma hit some so hard he's calling his ex-wife in tears, saying about the mistress, "What a mistake that was." To find out what happened, listen to the okay storytime podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers. If you haven't heard, Arnie Podcast is called, "Hey Jonas." And this week we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of. Millie Bobby Brown. That's right, 11 herself. We talk about her new movie and all of home's three family life and all the amazing things she has going on right now. Of course. This is where my mind when I saw this, Millie Bobby Brown. You have over 60 animals. First of all, how do you even keep track of everybody? And second, do you have favorites? Who are they? And why? Yeah, I need to know about this. Okay, I don't know where the number 60, and I really got to figure that out. And I could actually have over 60. I just need to really know that number. There have been plenty of sheep in my bed, and. It's a big bed. In the bed, literally sleeping in the bed, yeah. Plus, we find out what she really feels about stranger things, and. Five seasons, almost 10 years of your life. I could have never have guessed it. I started when I was 10 years old. Our conversation with Millie Bobby Brown is out now. Go check it out. Listen to "Hey Jonas" on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the summer of 2011, Brandon went to a party at the Proud Bird Restaurant and Event Center near LAX Airport, and shortly after he arrived, shots rang out. "Let's start walking. I felt like somebody kicked me at my stomach. I'm taking my shirt off, like, hold on a minute. Like something to my stomach." Brandon realized he'd been shot. "So I see the blood spreading out, and I'll just land here on that ground, and so do you." And say, "My night was going." Emergency responders raced him to the hospital. "Well, I went to UCLA, Ronald Reagan Medical, but they saved my life." However, they were unable to remove the bullet lodged in his spine. That bullet got Brandon thinking long and hard about the company he was keeping. "I want to know better people. I want to know people that can ask my life." So he decided to become a nurse. "I said, "Well, I want to give back. You know what we got to help save others." Brandon applied and was accepted to UCLA's EMT program. He planned to go to college to the following year, and was also working a licensed security job. Brandon says at 18, he was living his best life. "I had my most security job. I was working for a stress-shin company. For a time, I went for a concrete shot. I was making like $47 a dollar. So that was pretty fun. And I had a girlfriend, and I thought I was in the other dead time. And I was all so good to know from him. And I got back at those memories because of the only memories I had. But that was a very cool at that time." But his world was about to turn upside down. On Halloween 2012, Brandon was three days away from turning 19. He and his then girlfriend were looking for a Halloween party. "I never wanted to go out this night. That was one of the things too, right?" "My experience was that I was in a certain environment because my birthday was a few days after. So I was more focused on having a birthday celebration over Halloween." But they went out anyway to a party in Hollywood. "In Hollywood, it was a shooting. So we left and so that was a party at U.S.E." The University of Southern California. "This was around the time of what U.S.E. was, you know, top 25 school." "This is Claudia Salinas again. She's a staff attorney at the Innocent Center based in San Diego." "I always have known it to be really good. It's a prestigious school, both the law school and the regular school." We spoke two months ago about that night in 2012. "So October 31st, so close to this day of the interview actually. So it's kind of wild that we're sitting here talking about it. But there was a Freaks and Geeks party at the U.S.E. campus." When Brandon arrived, there were a few hundred people outside waiting to get into the party. "It seems like the party was popping because there was a line outside the door of people waiting to get in." "So we were standing along and then we just heard gunshots and I just started learning." Brandon says they were only there for about five minutes before gunshots rang out. "There's about five gunshots and then it turns out that four people ended up getting shot." Devonte Smith, Thomas Richie, My Sundowns, and Geno Hall. Fortunately, all survived. But in the chaos, nothing was clear. Everyone was in a panic, screaming, scattering, running for their lives. "The PTSD is real, so I like have that flashback that's done and I got shot. I just started running and all of that trauma came back." As he was running, Brandon pulled off his shirt to check if he'd been shot, but he wasn't. "And I get to the park a lot and the police pull up like put your hands up, I'm like, dang what I do." Police confronted Brandon in the parking lot. They were suspicious about why he was running without a shirt. They took his phone and went through it and found some photos of him with guns and other photos of what police thought were him flashing gang signs. So they took Brandon to the station. Meanwhile on campus, police were asking questions. They talked to two security guards and then they also have some other witness who provides she said that she actually saw the shooting take place. She provides a general description as well. What they had, like those three witnesses, they were pretty much drawn towards Brandon. At the station, police questioned Brandon. They appeared to suspect that Brandon had taken his shirt off because it had red on it. A color associated with the black P-stones gang. They tried to say that was because we're trying to hide your gang colors. That has nothing to do with gang colors. I was checking to make sure I was in shot again and I had that traumatic experience. So I'm thinking, "I know I didn't do that. This is a home. I'm going to go home." But he didn't go home. So then they come in there and like, "Can't be person up against me." "Oh, you did it. Just say you did it." I said, "I did what, bro?" And they're like, "You know, say you did it and then there's an attachive coming in. He comes in. This next thing is like rubbing my shoulder like, "Look, man, we know you did it. So this goes in and say you did it. The attach is going to come back and say you did it." Brandon insisted. He was innocent. So they take my arms up and put them in these like another envelope. I said, "What's this?" And I was, "Yes, I'm interested." I said, "I'll run. This is going, bro." "Yeah, they do that." Gunshot residue testing. When a gun is shot, it releases microscopic particles onto hands and clothing. But nothing came up on Brandon. And they said, "Well, tell us where the gun is." I said, "What gun, bro?" He said, "The parking lot. You got tested me for his GSR. He said, "We got it. I had no gun. I didn't do that." And then three hours later, they end up finding a gun. And it kind of all unraveled from there. And they started building the case around him. So that was it. So you never saw the free world again after that? No. Brandon was charged with four counts of attempted first degree murder and went to trial in January of 2014. Deputy District Attorney Antonela Nisterescu told jurors that when Brandon got to the USC party, he saw a member of a rival gang, Geno Hall. She alleged that Geno had been the one who shot Brandon in 2011. She told jurors, quote, "This is a rivalry steeped in violence." Claudius says the prosecution's case really played up these gang allegations. We were trying to count how many times the word "gang" was used in this case. And it's a shit ton of time. "Gang number, gang number, gang number." The more times you hear "gang" and the more time you hear "violence" and tensions between the bloods and the crypts and whatever it is, that is very inflammatory for a jury. The prosecution also presented the photos they found on his phone of Brandon with guns and of Brandon flashing gang signs. They also introduced a photo of Brandon's chest tattoo, a "BS," the prosecution said it stood for the "black, peacetime gang." Brandon says it's just his name. But Geno Hall testified at trial and did not identify Brandon as his shooter. In fact, none of the survivors implicated Brandon at trial. Only two security guards I did him. Plus, a star witness, a young man named LaPaul Lane. LaPaul was at the party and testified that he had seen Brandon confronting Gino. "You see, basically that I left, came back with God and approved premeditation." Premeditated attempted murder. The prosecution presented evidence to back up this beef between Gino and Brandon in the form of exchanges on Twitter. "Tweets of children essentially going back and forth between one of the victims that the prosecutor liked to use, but a lot of these words in these tweets is a lot of what they kind of call like "fronting." According to the prosecution, one of the tweets ended with Gino challenging Brandon to come and find him. "And they might be general, but they still have inflammatory parts. Where then you get a police officer who gets a deemed a gang expert, gets on the stand and starts making connections about what these things mean, what they see in the field, and then they do generalizations of the peace-stone bloods, fueling with the rolling forties, and so now you have this like little bow that the gang experts get to kind of put, and you just see that throughout most of my gang cases here in the office and it is quite inflammatory." "I was here at my trial, I was sitting here scratching my ear like I did what?" Brandon insists he was never in a gang. He was a good kid with no record. "You know, they can show the pictures of me at the Congressional Black Caucus. When I was 15, I met Obama and the pictures with me were 19 waters and they're different. Congressional people. But the court allows this lady who doesn't know me to tell 12 people lies that I'm just the stud, I'm the criminal, I'm well-documented, I'm a stereotype is for someone that looks like me. I can't remember a thought of the criminal in my jury. This goes on to that." The judge even criticized the prosecution for this, displaying things to the jury without offering evidence. He said, quote, "This is an improper and unprofessional move on your part. I don't know if you're lazy or you're nervous or you don't know how to do that." There was no physical evidence linking Brandon to the crime. There were no fingerprints on the gun, however, law enforcement did recover a partial DNA profile. They said that there was a 1 in 40 chance that that was a hit to Brandon, whereas the shirt was a 1 in 7 6-tillion chance. A 1 in 40 comparison can include way too many people compared to a conclusive ID like Brandon's shirt, which was also tested. "So the shirt, there's no doubt that it is a shirt. There is no contest there that it's his, but the gun to go on the stand and tell jurors that 1 in 40 chance, like nobody really understands what that means. And it's too many people that can be included into that lump sum, but they don't take that extra step to kind of explain that at that level." "So I'm sitting here the whole time like, well, the evidence pulls my mind. There's no T.S.R. My fingerprints on is done. My DNA's on is done." Brandon's defense was weak, his girlfriend who was with him at the party and could say Brandon wasn't the shooter, wasn't called to testify. Even though she was his alibi and it's unclear why. Still Brandon was hopeful. "There's no video evidence like the jury's come to testify, the evidence pulls that I had nothing to do with this." But stacked against police officers, key witness, gang experts, and a climate of fear and crime in Los Angeles. Brandon was convicted of four counts of attempted murder. "We want to go to Spona when we play it right now. Or is this serious?" "Do you think the jury was thinking like, well, even if he didn't do this, he's in a gang, so he did something bad." "Exactly. I could tell, looking at my trees, I saw the phone. I didn't see Brandon. I didn't see the security guard. The young man who got out of record, the young man who was a mayor of the city was highly young." Before sentencing, one of the survivors said that he knew Brandon and he didn't think Brandon would do this. He asked the judge to be lenient with his sentencing, a sergeant in the LAPD's 77th Division, familiar with gang activity called Brandon "nice, respectable young man." Even the mayor of Inglewood vouched for Brandon. After three hours of deliberating, the jury found him guilty. And Brandon lost it. "I kind of like blacked out. I turned the chair and was customer and was the sheriff's department. I told him he don't just kill me. He don't doubt that was my mind. So I had that thought. I said, "You want to just do it. Shoot me right now because you've been cooking too far now." And like, I was like a powerless moment in my life. "As to count three, a conviction of penal code section 664." On April 18, 2014, the judge sentenced Brandon to 15 years to life on four attempted murder convictions, running concurrently. "The minimum period of parole eligibility is 15 years, plus 25 years to life in accordance with penal code section 1, 2, 0, 2, 2." This 25 years to life for gun enhancements, all made worse by the alleged gang retaliation. As the judge read the sentence, Brandon sobbed. Sitting there with his hands cuffed behind his back, he banged his head against the table. And he pleaded with the judge. "I'm sorry to have you on your foot. I've been in prison. And I'm not a bad person, but I made the same. I'm not just some gang retaliation trial that betrayed me as." But it didn't matter. Brandon was sentenced to 40 years to life at 21 years old for four shots that killed no one. "I'm Hota Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hota Kotby. We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer. And that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety." Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. "There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. We just have to find it." Listen to Joy 101 with Hota Kotby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. "Tell me, Sophia. How did she even catch them?" One Amazon shopping receipt. "He exposed himself. That's a rookie move." Couples massages, monogrammed bath robes, and lingerie he'd that motor for. So she spent four weeks gathering evidence and taped a 10 page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. "In his luggage, she came to play." And the second he landed, he blocked her. "Oh, she got the mistress live on the phone. That is a bold move. Let's see if it pays off." That gets worse. He took the mistress on the Bahamas honeymoon trip he had planned with his wife and then the mistress tagged him on Facebook, outing the fare to her entire family. And spoiler two years later, karma hit some so hard he's calling his ex-wife into your saying about the mistress. What a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the okay story time podcast on the iHard Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. "Hey everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers. If you haven't heard, Arnie Podcast is called "Hey Jonas." And this week we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of. "Milly Bobby Brown." That's right. 11 herself. Talk about her new movie and all of home's three family life and all the amazing things she has going on right now. Of course. "This is blue my mind when I saw this, Billy Bobby Brown. First of all, how do you even keep track of everybody in second? Do you have favorites? Who are they and why?" "Yeah, I need to know about this." "Okay. I don't know where the number 60 and I really got to figure that out and I could actually have over 60. There have been plenty of sheep in my bed and it's a big bed." "I'm in the bed, literally sleeping in the bed, yeah." Plus, we find out what she really feels about Stranger Things ending. Our conversation with Milly Bobby Brown is out now. Go check it out. Listen to "Hey Jonas" on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. After his sentencing, a column came out in the LA Times. The author was Sandy Banks. "I'm a journalist who worked with the growth hands of the Times for more than 30 years. Most of that as a column is covering issues that might be missed by others but that it were whirling the community." The column held no punches. In it, Sandy called out Brandon for throwing a tantrum. at his sentencing. She called him a two-year-old and wrote that the last thing L.A. needed was more hoodlums carrying guns. What got me there was that here was this young man who had kind of a glowing resume except for a couple of mishaps in his young teenage years. And yet he was about to go to prison for 40 years for shooting into a crowd of kids. And initially I thought that's a really pretty dramatic and overkill. But then I thought back to how many times people in my community and the greater Los Angeles community felt threatened by the young men with guns. And the mother of three girls who were teenagers at that point. And I don't have enough fingers to count the times they had encountered the potential for shootings or violence. And so I just felt like he was a representative in my mind of all these young men who were willy-nilly shooting to settle their scores and don't seem concerned about the collateral damage. Her column was merciless. I told him a pride baby and you know what this dog look like a gun. And Brandon read it. And that gang stuff is actually kind of disrespectful that I'm associated with it. That's not who I am. And then that's been like a repeating where someone that looks like me is that they're eight grand or 12 grand and criminals and that hurts. And Brandon says his entire being was reduced simply to thug. He stood on Sandy's article. Brandon wouldn't be eligible for parole until 2031. But he wanted to prove everyone wrong. He wasn't who they thought he was and he needed to make sure he had the best shot he could at parole. So he continued his education and personal development. He has done so much schooling like probably more than any of the other clients that I personally have worked with at least. He's in the dog care program. So he helps train dogs for veterans and for people who want to adopt these dogs. I've took it for ownership of my life. I've been able to not embrace the victims that it's who I became a constant learner. That's my philosophy to remain a lifelong learner. Brandon Schlisser is striving to be the best version of himself. The whole time hoping something would break in his case. Then six years after being arrested, it happened. In 2018, the prosecution star witness recanted. In a written affidavit, LaPaul Lane said that he was threatened by law enforcement and the prosecution. He actually had some pending criminal charges at the time and that is leveraged to be able to negotiate a deal. I can't pretend to imagine what it's like to be under those circumstances. So that is what he talks about in the declaration. LaPaul's affidavit reads. I was threatened by the detectives investigating the case and by the district attorney prosecuting the case. That if I did not say what they needed me to say, that the district attorney would intervene in my own pending criminal case and cause me to be harmed or sentenced more severely. I am sincerely sorry that I testified falsely against Mr. Spencer, but I was afraid of what the prosecutor would do to me if I didn't. He also does describe some of the six-pack identification procedures from what he remembers and. The specifics that he has about that does raise a couple red flags. Here's a reading of the affidavit again. Detective Jones had me review at least three six packs of photographs to try to get me to identify Brandon Spencer. The first three six packs were of black men wearing black shirts, except that in each six pack the photograph of Mr. Spencer was at least twice the size of the other photographs. And Mr. Spencer was wearing a red shirt. When the detective asked me if any of the men looked familiar, of course I pointed to the larger photograph with the red instead of black shirt. After the detective showed me another six pack of photographs, but this time all the photographs were the same size. I was told to circle and initial the photograph of Mr. Spencer on the last six pack only. I don't know what the detective did with the other lineups, but afterward I was allowed to leave. Finally, Brandon felt like he had something, but it took years of fighting his case on his own to make any headway. He is his greatest advocate, and I don't know that had he not had that really strong advocacy and positivity and willingness to help in his own case, that he would have gone as far as he has gone today and got the attention of the people that he needs to get the attention of. Like Claudia and the Innocent Center, who officially started working on Brandon's case this year. He did have a recantation, and so for us, you know, you always got to look at those with some kind of scrutiny. But it had a lot of information in there about the six pack identification procedures, about some of the potential coercion that took place during the identification and investigation process. And so that kind of opened the door and to kind of just, okay, well, what's this case about? The shooting took place on USC campus, a prestigious institution. They had a reputation to uphold, and of course nobody wants there to be just a bunch of shootings taking place, but it certainly doesn't help that six months prior to this Halloween night shooting. There was a prior shooting of two USC students, Ming and Ying, who were actually shot and killed on campus as well. They were killed in an apparent robbery, so the rush to arrest and prosecute someone in this second shooting became clear. Claudia says, then she focused on the sentence. 40 years to life for a shooting where no one died. But the judge actually gave Brandon the lowest possible sentence he could. That's because of mandatory minimums. The sentence is that require a minimum prison term for certain crimes, regardless of mitigating circumstances. Mandatory minimums are just one of many policies from the tough on crime era that still exists today. Brandon was given the minimum for each crime, 15 years to life on four attempted murder convictions, running concurrently, plus 25 years to life for a gun enhancement. I think that the United States is working the way it's intended to, which is to create casts of people and incarcerate people, specifically black and brown people, and other minorities. And so I'm actually sadly not surprised that he got such a big sentence. You know, a person in like a white supremacist type of gang, you typically don't see them getting the gang enhancement as much as your typical blood or crypt gang. Claudia points to examples from trial where this bias was on display, like the photo and videos the prosecution shows the jury of Brandon flashing gang signs. If you grow up in the gang neighborhood, these are the people that you're associated with, whether you know you're put onto the gang or not. The gang signs, I would say that I was young, just being goofy, just kicking it, hanging it in those pictures that they use, I was like 15 or 16. But nonetheless, you know, a jury doesn't necessarily know that you don't necessarily have a jury of your peers. So what you're seeing is these kind of inflammatory pictures that were allowed. But Claudia says there's actually a new law in California that could be beneficial to helping Brandon, specifically in these avenues. It's called the racial justice act. It's meant to target issues of the government or a prosecutor, a judge, or law enforcement officer, even an attorney. If they exhibit actual bias or implicit bias or any kind of amicus towards the suspect or the defendant, because of their race, ethnicity or origin. So this is great. This is like a mode to be able to look into gang enhancements are the prosecutors applying the gang enhancement at the same rate for the same similar circumstances to white people that they are to black or brown people. She also says it's being used in the over criminalization of rap lyrics. Rap lyrics are one of like the prominent issues that are going on in California. They finally have some legal standard to be able to attack those because we do know that rap lyrics are an expression of art. It does not always necessarily mean that this person did this crime. And it is more inflammatory for people who might not listen to rap music on a general basis and understand that context. If I was tweeting those lyrics and beefing with somebody else, the assumption might not be she's in a gang because I'm a white woman. Yeah, absolutely. And he was a black guy. And it's like, oh, he's tweeting these. He's a black kid. He's in a gang. Absolutely. And then same with, you know, the guns that were on the phone, you know, I can think of many times that I've seen guns on my friends phones, but they are lawyers and they wear suits. And so it's not the same. She also sees using the racial justice act to examine the way the prosecution uses. the tweets between Brandon and Gina Hall. Some of the tweets were had the word gunplay in them in 2012. When this case occurred, gunplay was actually one of the artists that were like peeking in the hip hop kind of industry at the time too. So that context didn't necessarily get to come out at trial, but it's all very important information. Are there different ways that these tweets can be interpreted? And if so, then was the gang expert, you know, using some type of racial bias to apply these to him, they also tried to use like his tattoos. I know tattoos are coming up in the racial justice act as well. And so that that could be an option. Claudio says she's excited to take on Brandon's case because of how many potential avenues into court there are. There's some cases that we run into where it's like, I can believe in this person's innocence. All I want, but there's no areas of investigation. It was literally just the testimony of like one person, you know, that's not the case here. There's a few different red flags and areas that we can pursue. And that always just makes me much more excited. She's also going to look into more DNA testing since science has advanced. And of course, regular shoe leather investigation. It's my hope to track down some of the people that were involved so we can talk to them directly, the security guards from the USC. They were they were pretty significant prosecution witnesses. And I'd love to see some of the circumstances around what happened with the six pack identification procedures. You know, you just want to get out there. You want to you want to talk to the people and just figure out what happened. Really, I think that's kind of what we all want is we want the truth to come out. And that's exciting for me. That's why I got into this work for sure. Brandon has been in prison for over a decade for a crime. He says he didn't commit and he continues to work on himself. He says next he wants to get his PhD. I want to do my dissertation about post-traumatic growth. I got to say earlier, hopefully become a motivational speaker and help young men, you know, change their mindset and understand that that lifestyle, that way of thinking is ignorant. And another person has also spent years reflecting on her mindset. Sandy Banks has had time to look back on her column about Brandon. I wrote a column that when I read it now, I never embarrasses me because it was so knee jerk. And I realized I was I was biased by the fact that I were about my girls every time they would leave the house, you know, and they're going to a party or a football game or whatever. And that shouldn't be what's, you know, steering my opinion. You know, it's top as a columnist because you're supposed to have an opinion. And we try to explain why we have this opinion. But meeting words for my girls is not a valid reason for making Brandon the symbol of game violence in the city. In 2020, I released an episode about Brandon on my podcast, Unjust and Unsolved, a listener sent it to Sandy after reading her article. Sandy saw the name Brandon Spencer and listened. I got to see him and hear him. And it was a very different experience than, you know, watching the scene in the courtroom when told where he's screaming and carrying on. It was a young man who was kind of perplexed himself about how he got there. And who proclaimed his innocence still and, you know, and had things to back him up. So Sandy started taking stock of her own experiences as a black woman. And I will tell you, I live in the San Fernando Valley, which is, you know, had reputationally very white. There have been times that I have been considered suspicious. I could remember walking home from the whole foods with whole foods bags, but I had a hoodie on and my hair wasn't combed and I was, you know, you know, and there was a guy following me in the car. And I realized, you know, I'm going to be on the next door feed next time about the suspicious black lady who might be homeless because she's walking around with shopping bags, you know, and that would not happen to a white neighbor. So yeah, I'm aware of that. And that's kind of, you know, I should have thought of that even when I was castigating him. Sandy and Brandon connected after she listened to my episode. Once she finally got to hear me and to talk to me, you know, I kind of get emotional. I got a tears when I spoke to her that, you know, that else she supports me and she apologized. And in that, that really was motivational. I think we need to be, we need to be able to step back to plunge deeper into the backgrounds of the people that are, you know, quote unquote, during the shooting because that's what's going to give us the answer on how we be a less violent society, talk into them, listening to them, having programs in prisons to help them see the light, you know, Sandy also spoke to Brandon's parents for context for her most recent column about Brandon titled, I once applauded a 40 year sentence for a shooter, not now. His parents are good people. They, they did the best they can in our heartbreak and she's still working every day. To free their son. What he did, a peace guilty was certainly wrong, but is 40 years in prison and appropriate sentence for that when you have, you know, child molesters and, you know, other kind of guys getting out after, you know, five or six years. And I think we need to kind of embrace the notion that these are young people growing up in difficult times and are there ways that we can help and support them instead of just, you know, castigate them when they do want. And that's exactly what Brandon wants to do now. I want to help other young men not get involved or caught up with that or don't even be associated with that because maybe knowing these people got me by my side and I just want to go home and live my life. I'm an asset to a society of not a liability. You know, one time I was suicidal, I ran there and I did, then where I am today, you know, and to see who I've become down is very inspiring. I believe this is motivation for some of the people that we all face troubles in our lives, but we're not defined by those moments. It's about pushing forward. You know, looking me up and road road advice system that everyone in America in the world know that it's designed for someone that looks like me to fail them. But all the eyes right now are stacked against this is the modern Danivers Divine. I'm going against USC. This is a billion dollar dollars. I'm going to falsely as a police department and, you know, aren't you think that? And if you're racing straw and, you know, don't walk over yourself, Pete. You know, I just, I just want my dress and I want to be free. And I hope that we're able to speak on the facts and I'm able to be talking to you ready one day and receive the justice I deserve. Thank you for listening to wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the links on our website to see how you can help Brandon. This episode was written by me, Maggie Freeling, with story editing and sound design by senior producer Rebecca Ibarra. Our producer is Kathleen Fink, our mixer is Josh Allen, with research by Allison Levy, an additional production help by Jeff Clyburn. Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler and Kevin Wartus. The music is by three time Oscar nominated composer J Ralph. Make sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Laval for Good and at wrongful conviction. You can also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Laval for Good Podcasts in association with signal company number one. We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Laval for Good. Joy is essential and it's also elusive but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hota Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats. Listen to Joy 101 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I will ferroze big money players that work in an iHeart Radio. He gave it to me. I mean, I can't even tell you, Paul. How curious it was. It was insane. Listen to Paul's best podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stephanie Young. We're following the case live, as the criminal charges finally come to a conclusion. Trust us when we tell you as the victims of war-owneds, she will not stop. Listen to Love Trap. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.