#500 Maggie Freleng with Stacy Larson

Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101, it's a new podcast hosted by me, Hota Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats. Open your free iHeartRadio app search, Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hota Kotby is presented by CVS. I'm Jake Brenn and on the Disgraceland podcast I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories for music history. These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga's Accused Up, where that time blondies Debbie Harry escaped Ted Bunny. Listen to Disgraceland on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you give your podcasts. My first guest is Paris Totten, Shakira, Luke and Yerin. I have surprises, many surprises. Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast where the new tech comes to life. You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst. Lemonade. This is Sweet 305. Here, oversharing is encouraged. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lille Ponds on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for using GGL. Stacey. Yes. It's finally happening. Yes, it is. Stacey Larson and I have been speaking for years. I've been trying to get him on my podcast. He wrote me a letter back in 2020. Yeah, like four or five years ago. It was one of many. How many letters do you think you've written over the years? Oh, geez. Oh. Oh. Oh. I've seen well over 100 e's, five or a couple hundred. Were you just writing anyone and everyone? I've heard about podcasts. They get out there. I mean, they're all over the world. But it seems stuff like that on TV, like TikTok and stuff like that. People got podcasts on things and stuff. Hey, I've got nothing to lose if I try and I've got more to gain if I get in. I'll write it anybody, try anybody. Because you still know. Stacey is even on prison pen pal sites. I hope that some of that might read it. Hey, I almost see what this kid's about. Maybe I can help him and stuff like that. Stacey's doggedness to prove his innocence paid off 20 years ago when the Great North Innocence Project took on his case. But over the decades, his attorneys have run out of avenues to pursue. We have believed for a very long time that Stacey is innocent. And so this podcast, I think, is sort of a Hail Mary or a Last-Ditch effort and hoping that someone out there will listen to this podcast and provide us with new information. My name is Stacey Larson. I've been like up over 34 years. And I'm doing a life sentence for a crime I did not do. From Lava for Good, this is wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling. Today, Stacey Larson. Stacey Larson was born June 26, 1969 in Mitchell, South Dakota. South Coast mostly a farmland. We live on a farm when we were just a little kid. They had like 10 acres of land. We had horses, chickens, geese, stuff like that. We were all in old-world garden, stuff, corn, you know, pumpkins, watermelons, tomatoes, carrots, rhubarb, modded, all that. Did you like that life? Yeah. Besides tending to their farm, Stacey's mom worked as a waitress and bartender. And Stacey's dad was an auto mechanic. And that worked a lot. They're always working. So Stacey hung out with his siblings. Three older brothers. I'm the baby of the family. That kind of sucks. What was that like? You kind of got always picked on. You know, it's got told to do this and do that. You know, mom, dad told him you guys have certain towards to do. They mom, dad, he ran the house. So my brothers had me do their towards and stuff. It was a handful for my mom. I know that for sure. Kind of wild kids a little bit. You know, I'm doing this doing that. Mom, you don't be doing that. I don't do that. Well, like what would you guys do that? What would you guys do that would piss her off? Oh, we like go outside and run around, get dirty, come in and stuff like that. Be rusting around in the house or playing and stuff. They like, don't be doing that in the house. Do it outside. Stacey remembers spending a lot of time outdoors. We live by the Mitchell Lake. So we got to go to the lake and go swimming and stuff like that. So we go to Rapid City. My mom, dad had a friend out there. They live out in the hills. They had a motor home of both. So we go fishing, tubing, swimming, all the stuff camping. Like for a week out there in Rapid City. So I'm looking at a map, Stacey and kind of near where you grew up. There's a place called the corn palace. Have you been to the corn palace? Yeah, I used to work there. That's Mitchell, South Dakota. And Stacey loved it. But as he got older, he started to act out. I kind of like the little shit. Been really like pay attention to my parents out months, you know, just kind of get what I wanted to do. Stacey dropped out of school in 10th grade. I kind of struggled in school. I couldn't like pay attention to well. I couldn't sit still too well. I had like, you know, it was always like HD, whatever. I was always had to be moving, had to be doing something. I just had a hard time in school. I knew you did some time in juvenile detention. What were you getting in trouble for? I'm very agree. I did some couple high speed chases. High speed chases in a car. With who? The police or like drag racing? No. Police. Did you do anything like violent? No. I got no violence on my right here or nothing. I didn't even prison. I had no violence at all. After he dropped out of school, Stacey started working. Grand Goodger, where my dad worked. He was a sister manager there. And how did you see your life going? Like what did you want to do? I was hoping it was going to go up. I met this girl. Her name is Monica. At 18, Stacey met Monica through a friend. And they fell hard in the way kids in Mitchell do. Me and Monica had used to go to the park a lot on the weekends and stuff. I hang out, go on the swings and stuff, slide later. And they're like, with a blanket out, maybe eat some snacks and stuff. Stacey says Monica was a catch. 5-8. Long. Black hair. Good looking. And what do you think she liked about you? She said I was good looking, hot. Do you think you're hot? Yeah. Getting older now. Kind of fating away a little bit. But back then, you were a looker, huh? Yeah, had long hair. I had my hair combed to the side, always through the back. But if you laid it down, my bangs were like blow my nose. But Stacey says what Monica especially liked? She knows I was a good father, she knows that. Monica had a newborn baby when Stacey met her. So I took the folder responsible for her daughter, the razor, the baby there, the take care of her feet or not stuff. Her name was heaven, and Stacey loved her like his own. And he says he adored his life with Monica. So you were planning to kind of have a life with her? Yeah, that was the plan. Did you like being a dad? Yeah, I enjoyed it. I think it was best thing in the world. The straightened your life out. But getting in trouble is so in the past, you have responsibilities now. Did you start to change your life around when you. Yeah, because kids follow the sounds of the kids before or anything. They always put your kids first. Kids always priority. And soon Stacey had a kid of his own. Sonny was born in the spring of 1990, but Stacey wouldn't get to raise him. It was like two months old when I got arrested. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. And then she came across a lot of people who had gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer. And that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice, but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics. that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy 101 with HotaCotbe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin. Samirae, Gracie! I'm so excited! On the bouncy bed. You have surprises. Many surprises. Welcome to Sweet 305 where the good chat comes to life. What up? You're the only person I know that loves the yellow starbursts. It's the same. I would like to collaborate with this person. This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Ponds as part of my culture and podcast network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Brennan and on the Discretsland Podcasts, I explore the wild lives of rock stars in unbelievable true crime stories for music history. These are the stories you haven't heard. The kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that. You're Paul McCartney. It's 1980. You're an ex-beetle. And you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons, right there alongside Yakuza Gangsters and for a ridiculous charge. Or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga has accused them. Who is the artist Lady Gaga is being accused of doing the unthinkable to after allegedly stealing her music in style to become famous? And what about that time blondie's Debbie Harry escaped a serial killer? The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to Discretsland on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On May 12, 1990, Stacey was out with his buddy Elmer Pickner and their friend, Louis Medicine Horan. He was Monica's uncle. They decided to go to Sioux Falls about an hour away where they knew they could get some. On their way there, at around 7 p.m., they stopped at a convenience store in Mitchell called Food and Fuel. They got gas and beer and Stacey knew the clerk so they shot the shit. That's all we'd be back before he closed so they closed that midnight, got in my car and then we had to Sioux Falls. Once they got to Sioux Falls, Stacey says he dropped Uncle Louis at a bar to see if he can find any weed. Me and Elmer looked at 7/11, got something eaten between. Eventually, they struck out and headed back to Mitchell. They stopped at the Food and Fuel again, got another case of beer and filled up the car with gas. My job's on for Louis. I asked when we went to my mom's dad's house, my mom, my ex sister, and while we're at the counter in the kitchen. That was about 12, 10, 12, 15. My mom, dad got a clock in the kitchen in the dining room. When you walk into the back door, you can see it. They were sitting right there. We talked to them for a little while. And that was the night, an eventful and a bummer. A few days later, Stacey and Elmer went to the police station. Elmer had lost his wallet. So we're looking for, we've been finding it. So we went to the police station to report it missing. That's when it all started. Well, they took me and Elmer upstairs and split us up in different rooms and started asking questions like what we did Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, tell that time to miss the police station, where we were, what time we got up, what time we went to bed, whose house we were at, stuff like that. Stacey says he had no idea what was going on. Eventually, the detective left the room. He also left his documents on the table. So I started to like looking at it and then it said something like about a drive-by shooting or something. The night's Stacey had been in Sioux Falls looking for weed. There had been a murder. Ronald Hilgenberg was driving his car in the right lane. His wife was in the passenger seat. A vehicle comes up next to him and shoots him once in the head. This is Anna McGinn, staff attorney at the Great North Innocence Project. The victim's wife testified that she didn't get a good look at the shooter's car when it passed, but she had a slight feeling that something light was going by. So, you know, maybe a light colored car. His wife recounted that the crime must have occurred around 1142 or 1143 pm because she remembers looking at the clock at 1140 and she estimated that about two to three minutes had elapsed when the shooting occurred. Anna, to be clear, a person was driving down the street. This was all while driving and shot at another car that was also in motion. That's correct. So they were driving west on I-90, about 20 miles west of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. That same night, there was also a house burglary and a house fandalism. The bar residence in Hartford, South Dakota was burglarized. A Winchester 20-gauge shotgun and 20-gauge shells were taken. The curtain home, a neighboring home of the bar residence, was vandalized. Someone shot through one of the windows in the home. Ballistics would end up determining that the same gun was used at both homes. Police also removed pellets from the victim's body in the drive-by killing and police said they were similar to the ones found in the other two crime scenes. And then this other woman who's just driving by, her car gets shot at. No one's injured, but someone shoots through a window in her car. The woman driving that car was Tanya Ishal, and she winds up telling police that she got a good look at the car. She described the shooter's car as an older model, four-door car, light green with a white final top. Although passengers in the car with Tanya described the car differently. Police were asking for information about these crimes and provided a description of the car, and they then received an anonymous tip from someone concerned that Stacey's car matched the one identified by the passerby's. So that's how he's ultimately put on the radar of the police. And that's when Stacey walked into the police station looking for Elmer's wallet. Stacey was held for questioning but was ultimately released, though it wasn't long before the police brought him back, and this time they meant business. They're saying we're lying, we ain't telling the truth. You got your fitted. You can just spot brand new tires on your car, these car trucks have to see where fresh, like brand new tires. Oh, you got to be beholden your tail light, your car 50s description. We got to eye witness that saw you, do it and all this stuff. I think what? No way. Tanya also identified Stacey in a lineup. Police were convinced they had their man. So Stacey was held in the police station for 10 hours during which time he asked for an attorney several times and he never got one. He was never Miranda eyes or given his Miranda warnings. The question of question of the question is, and I demand light detector. But we went to the police station about 3/3 in the afternoon. I think it was like 10, 10, 30 when they gave us a light detector and they said we're a reception or whatever. Imagine after solving all this thing you question, the else for us, they're all scared, they're all confused. They brought in his girlfriend and infant son in the middle of the night and told him that he should kiss his baby goodbye since he'd never see him again. They told him that his dad was in the lobby and looked very sick. He was sweaty and pale like he might have a heart attack, which was alive. So they're basically saying, look your dad's here, he's going to have another heart attack and you can go if you just make a confession. And he said to him, he's hand on the account of real hard stuff. I'm not just mid to what you dig. I talk about it like that, that's penalty and stuff. So what did you think? Did you think like, okay, if I just say what they're saying, I can go home? Yep. That's pretty much it. Tell us what happened. What did you guys did and we dealt with? That was my understanding. Did you have an understanding that when you confessed to a crime that they would arrest you then or were they telling you like, you'll go home? They wouldn't say exactly. I was going to get arrested or go home, but this tells us what happened and the interview was done. You know, it's no more questions for through. I was my understanding. And so after 10 hours of torment, Stacey wrote out a confession that he was involved in this crime. Stacey says the detectives told him what to say and when he was done, He never went home. Stay. AC was indicted for the murder of 76-year-old Ronald Hildenberg. What were you thinking when you went to trial? I'm going home. I didn't do it. They don't have nothing. So you believed the system would get it right. They would figure out, oh, he didn't do this. Yep. Elmer Pickner, Louis Medicine Horn, and Stacy were all charged. And Stacy was the first to go to trial. They offered me a deal to testify against him. I said, no, I ain't taking no deal. Stacy insisted on his innocence. So he went to trial November 3, 1990. He was 20 years old. McCook County State's attorney, Roger Gerlach, tried the case. So the state's theory of the case was that these three men were so frustrated at their failure to secure marijuana that they went on a crime spree that ultimately culminated in the Hildenberg murder. The state's ballistic expert, Appind, that the pellets and the wads retrieved from the scene were likely fired from the same gun that was fired at the bar residence, the curtain residence, and also matched evidence found at the Hildenberg murder, and the pellets taken from the victim's body. But the state didn't have much else to work with. None of the unidentified fingerprints, footprints, or tire prints, matched Stacy or his friends, and his confession never made it to trial. - His confession was actually thrown out, found to be inadmissible because of all of these horribly coercive tactics by the police. The judge would not allow it in. But apparently while he was alone in the police officer's car, Stacy, according to this officer, again, alleged to have made some sort of incriminating admission to him with the two were alone in the vehicle, and that ultimately was admitted at trial. - The officer was allowed to testify as to what he alleged he heard Stacy say in the car. - These admissions, in addition to the word of two jailhouse snitches, made up some of the only evidence against Stacy at the time of the crime. In fact, the defense was turning up evidence to the contrary. - So this case is in some ways complicated the timing of the events, but in other ways it's very simple because Stacy had an iron clad alibi. - Remember Stacy, Uncle Louis, and Elmer had gone to Sioux Falls to get weed at the frontier bar. - Now, Quentin's testified to seeing the group leave around 1110 pm. Then all three men left Sioux Falls and returned westbound to Mitchell at 1147 pm. Stacy and his two friends purchased gas and beer at a food and fuel in Mitchell, South Dakota, and this was corroborated by the store's tape and employee testimony. - Sales tape, not videotape. A receipt from the food and fuel marked 1202 AM. The problem with this is that the distance between the site of the Hylgenberg murder and the food and fuel is 43.2 miles. And the Hylgenberg murder occurred around 1142 pm. Stacy would have had to cover that 43 miles in about 20 minutes. And that would be an average of 135 miles per hour. But Stacy's defense found out that the clock on the time stamp receipt was 10 minutes fast. - And given the reality that the clock was 10 minutes fast, he purchased the store items actually at 1152, he probably would have had to drive about 260 to even 370 miles per hour, which was obviously impossible. - How did the state get around this at trial? - So the state was allowed to introduce prior bad acts that Stacy had a history of speeding. - Remember, Stacy liked racing cops. - So, they said you can sort of extrapolate from the times and say, okay, well, let's say the shooting actually occurred at 1140 pm. You know, no one knows exactly the time that the shooting occurred. And so, you know, giving it a little bit of leeway there. And let's say he actually got there at 12.02. Yeah, the clock wasn't actually fast. Then 130 miles per hour. Well, Stacy has all this history of speeding. So, you know, maybe it makes sense that he did speed that fast, which again, you know, an average of 135 miles per hour. I guess that's technically possible, but strikes me as exceedingly unlikely. Unlike what we believe the real timeline was, which is going about 300 miles per hour. I mean, that's physically impossible. You know, this is an iron clad alibi. The problem is all of this was known at the time of trial. And he was still convicted. - After about eight hours deliberating, the jury found Stacy Larson guilty of second degree murder. Just after midnight, on November 21st, 1990, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Roger Girlac told the press he would use the same approach and witnesses for the other two trials. But he ended up dropping the charges against Uncle Louis. An Elmer was acquitted at trial a few months later in 1991. - Stacy's the only one that's sitting in prison for this crime. The alibi was enough for a one jury and not enough for his, unfortunately. (soft music) - Hey, I'm Hota Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hota Kotby. We're gonna have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. - I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer. - Olympic champ, Sean Johnson, revealed why she had no choice, but to be a gymnast. - There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. - Listen to Joy 101 with Hota Kotby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - My first guest is Paris Hilton. - Shakira. - Luke and Yerin. - Samidae. - Gracie. - I'm so excited. - On the bouncy bed. - You have surprises. - Many surprises. - Welcome to Sweet 305, where the good chat comes to life. - What up? (beep) (upbeat music) - You're the only person I know that loves the Yellow Starbursts. - This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lille Ponds as part of my Toyota Podcasts Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Jake Brennan, and on my podcast, Discretsland. I tell the stories behind music's biggest names, the moments that shaped them, haunted them, and changed music history forever. Like how the story of the food fighters in Dave Grohl isn't just about music. Imagine that. You're in the biggest band on the planet as Dave Grohl was in 1994 in Nirvana. In the phone rings, and you learn that you're singer, your friend, the reluctant voice of a generation, Kurt Cobain, is dead. This is a story of fame, pressure, friendship, and the weight of fulfilling your destiny. Learn more about the moment, everything changed. Discretsland is part of the exactly right network. Listen to new episodes every Tuesday, bonus episodes Thursday, and rewinds on Sunday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Stacy says after he was convicted, he was devastated. - I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do, 'cause I was just a young kid. - 20 years old, his whole life ahead of him, and now it was gone. - So Monica, when you went to prison, how did that relationship end? Did you guys stay together? - We did for a while. I just kind of told you, you know, gotta go live your life. I gotta do what I gotta do to get out of here. I didn't wanna tie her down or nothing. - It was a very lonely start to prison for Stacy. No Monica and Stacy, it says his family wasn't fully behind him. - They pretty much convinced my dad I did it. - Wow, so did your dad think you did it? Yeah, be down in the. hard. I don't think he did, but he knows the police and stuff. So there's like, I don't want to say a friendship, but he didn't think they would lie to him, but if they got evidence that match, I mean, he's probably going to believe it. Stacey figured if he was going to get through this, he had to be there for himself. I had to figure something out. I'm not going to let him get away with this. So he started working on proving his innocence. I started talking to people and kind of going to law library, reading those stuff and watch started. And I started watching programs about like, physical evidence and trials and stuff trying to learn the process. He wrote letter after letter. I wrote like other news stations, like Washington Times, to all kinds of people. President Bakr Obama wrote Barry Sanders, a government homeland, with innocent projects, with companies, my women's news, the White House, all kinds of people. So we're writing right, try to help me. Finally, in 2004, the Great North Innocence Project accepted Stacey's case. This alibi, I think, screams of Stacey's innocence. Now, it was so convincing that Stacey's co-offendants were either acquitted at their own trials, and then the state subsequently dismiss all charges against his other co-offendants. But Anis has the problem with the alibi for post-conviction work, is that it was already presented at trial. In order to get Stacey back in court, he needs new evidence that has not been litigated. So shortly after they got the case in 2005, with advances in technology, the Innocence Project requested DNA testing on the evidence. But they found out it was gone. All of the evidence that was in the possession of the state's attorney's office, some of it at certain points we thought was destroyed. But recently, we've determined that it was not actually destroyed. And so we are going through testing relevant pieces of evidence as we come by them. But so far, that has not yielded any positive leads. You know, we've been trying to find fingerprints. We've been trying to get touch DNA, all sorts of evidence from all of these crimes. And this evidence has not given us any indication that Stacey is guilty. But it also hasn't provided us with any new information that we don't already know. And so where to go next is not at all obvious. Now, I think the fact that we've been working on his case for 20 years should speak to the fact that we have not found anything that suggests that Stacey committed this crime. Innocence, if they do find new evidence of innocence, Stacey can submit a motion for a new trial. It's horrible because we know that Stacey is innocent. I believe it's physically impossible for him to have committed this crime. And yet, as lawyers, keep hitting these dead ends, it's extremely demoralizing. Although the innocence project hit a wall, Stacey's life is on the up in other unexpected ways. I was going to ask about your cousin Karen, so tell me about her. Were you guys close growing up? Well, this is a crazy thing. We just met like eight years ago. Nobody knew she existed. Stacey's mother actually knew about me. And she was 11 months younger than my dad, so they were very close. This is Karen Wheel Dryer. I am Stacey's cousin. And what Stacey means by no one knew about her is that Karen didn't know who her biological dad was. I found out at the age of 56 that the dad that raised me was not my biological father. I always felt something was different growing up. And I finally asked my aunt who confirmed. And she told me my biological dad's name. So Karen set out to find him. That was in 2016, August of 2016. So since then, I've been on quite a journey learning as much about my biological dad and his family. And it's been very good, very good turnout. Did you expect your life was now going to be advocating for someone in prison? No, I certainly did not. That was probably the farthest thing from my mind. Karen learned that her dad had a sister and that sister had a son, her biological cousin. I learned about Stacey in 2017. And I actually got to meet him in April of 2017. Karen went to visit Stacey in prison, along with her uncle, Stacey's father. What were you told anything before you met Stacey? I mean, you're going to visit this man in prison that you don't know. What were you told about him? So I was told the circumstances of the case, as far as what his charges were and why he was in prison. Karen was taken by Stacey. I love his laugh. He has a soft laugh that is very warming. He's very kind, very kind man. I cannot speak of the young man he was at the time that all of this happened for him, but the stacey that I know, no, this is not him at all. Karen wondered, could this sweet man in front of her have committed this crime? It was just very hard to understand how this came about. I have served on jury duty a couple of times, not at the federal level, but at our county level. I have done that. And if there's one thing that I learned while doing that, it is that our judicial system is broken. So she got the court transcripts from Stacey's trial and started reading. And by reading those in the beginning, it's like, well, yeah, I mean, he had to have done it. If you read this and that's how the case was presented. But then Stacey started calling her. And he started sending me other information. So I started digging deeper and deeper. I've made a lot of phone calls. A lot of phone calls, a lot of emails. So what made you want to keep looking? I mean, you could have just been like, I don't know this person. I don't need to get involved with someone in prison. You know, that's a tough one. Just something inside that was telling me, he definitely is an innocent person. And now Karen says she knows it. This makes absolutely no sense. I mean, it made absolutely no sense. And the more I read into all these reports and looked at the pictures and read the autopsy, the more angry I became. And I consider it a righteous anger because it was very evident that he was set up. That's so interesting. So this person who you're related to, but doesn't really know you at all, now is one of your advocates. Yep. Find my biggest advocate I have. What do you think about that? You gotta have that support you need it. It's hard to do it's on your own. Karen says once the innocence project got involved in Stacey's case, the rest of his family came around. He has the support of his family. From those that I have met, he does have that. It's just nobody knows how to go about this. And that's been the hard part. That's what people don't know. When I met his mother, my aunt for the first time, she was so hopeful and she said, Stacey says the innocence project is working so hard to get his case reversed. She said, I just, I can't give up because Stacey is so hopeful I have to keep my hope going. But it's been over three decades and Stacey is still in prison, missing out on the life he loved. Do you feel like it was hard to be a dad in prison? Yeah, because you can't be the four of them physically or like, monthly. Because once they fall and got hurt or something happened at school or you know, you can't watch them forward or whatever swimming ride their first bike. It's hard on a kid. Because I have visitations with them when their little nons does so they kind of grew off. And with me through the prison system. Today, Stacey is a grandfather. Like, about during like activities like a fun when you get to interact with your kids, your grandkids, do things with them. We'll scavengers, hunt, do some collars and stuff like that. Are you still in touch with Monica or did that end friendly? We have contact here and there might be six months down the road, my hair former or something, but there's always been contact. They all know what's going on. They really leave a letter I give from people, I send them copies so they know what's going on, so they're not out of the lead. Do they all support your innocence? Yep, that can't work. I get out. What do you guys talk about? What's that going to look like? I tell them, first step, you're going to get out first and we're worried about that. You don't want to get too far ahead. My priorities getting out first. I don't even worry about what I'm going to do out there or anything. You don't want to get too emotional, you don't want to get your eye hopes up and stuff like that. Focus on one thing. I take one day at a time. I'm not one of those guys that could do thousand things. I just take one day at a time. My case is far already. This is the next steps aren't immediately obvious. We are just hoping that with this podcast, perhaps someone listening will recall this crime and have information that can help Stacey, basically to provide us with this new evidence, because we've done the DNA testing, we've done the fingerprint analysis, and we are not going to give up on Stacey because we believe in his innocence. This is an iron clad alibi. Stacey says there are few avenues they're looking for information on. She says that Stacey's attorney at trial should have been allowed to introduce a third party perpetrator defense. It wasn't me. It was someone else. Stacey wanted to offer evidence that at least one and possibly two other shootings occurred that same evening. So there was another shooting at a vehicle traveling eastbound on I-90 towards Sioux Falls at around 10-15 pm. Marks were found on this vehicle that could have been caused by a shotgun. And then again, at 12.30 a.m., a witness allegedly heard a shotgun blast from a van outside of Hartford, South Dakota. That's where those two houses were burglarized and vandalized. So no physical evidence was ever really found at the scene of either of those crimes. But it's significant. These drive-by shootings were not happening a lot in Sioux Falls, South Dakota at the time. And so the fact that there were potentially two other shootings, one likely caused by a shotgun shot, that's significant evidence that I believe should have been. And so that was a very, very, very, very important case. And so that was a very, very important case. And so that was a very important case. Thank you for listening to wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please support your local innocence organizations. And go to the links on our website to see how you can help Stacy out. If you live in South Dakota, you can reach out to your elected officials. This episode was written by me Maggie Freeling with story editing and sound designed by senior producer Rebecca Ibarra. Our producer is Kathleen Fink. Our mixer is Josh Allen. With research by Alison Levy. And additional production help by Jeff Clyburn. Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wurtis. The music is by three time Oscar-nominated composer J. Ralph. Make sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Love of For Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Love of For Good podcasts in association with Signal Company number one. We've worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Love of For Good. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now. There's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hauda Cotby. Joy 101 with Hauda Cotby is presented by CVS. 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