#5 - The Man That Led David Beckham Through The Amazon Jungle | SAS: Who Dares Wins TV Doctor | Raj Joshi

♫needleyn Fate BB Now I've got some feedback and quite a lot of you would like an introduction. So here we are, hello heart, I'm giving you an introduction into this week's episode which I absolutely loved with Raj Joshi. Please, please keep the feedback coming guys because I'm just getting started on this and it's getting better and better. I love that you guys listen and if you're new to this podcast, where the hell have you been? Oh my gosh, you've been missing out but you're late to the party, better late than never and it's good to have you here. This is where the party's at. I love that you guys listen and I love that you want to make this podcast better. So Mr. Raj Joshi, he is the expedition leader that led David Beckham through the Amazon jungle. He is the doctor that you may have seen on the TV show S.S. Who Des Wins and he led celebrities to the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro for comic relief's big red nose climb. One absolute dude and a true adventurer at his core. I really love my conversation with Raj. We talked about the dangers that they face with David Beckham in the Amazon, what it's like working behind the scenes with the S.A.S. guys and Raj's experience of meeting a tribe that had never had contact with the outside world. Also we spoke about more personal things like his upbringing and the value that pain can have in our lives in a society that places less and less importance on adventuring and seeing the world. This podcast is getting better and better and this week's episode was recorded on my narrowboat. What? Yeah, professional studio in my narrowboat with microphones in person and I absolutely loved it. Raj even had a glass of water. I mean, come on. This is next level luxury podcast hospitality. So without further ado, Mr. Raj Joshi. *Raj Joshi plays* Hey Raj. Hey Jake. Thanks for joining the pod, man. That's a pleasure being here. It's great to see you again. Yeah, really good, man. So I want to go all the way back with you, because we've known each other as who we are in the last year or so. But as someone that has led David Beckham through the Amazon, you're the doctor on S.S. who does wins. You've taken celebrities up Mount Kilimanjaro. What is it in your earliest years that shaped the man that you are today? I'd say family and friends were really important in being, well, shaping who I am today. So ever since I was a baby, I just used to go on for these camping trips to North Wales with my family, with also other families. With children they had around my age and I sort of grew up with those children over the years. And then we would be exploring the mountains, the hills, the forests in North Wales, over in Scotland as well, other beautiful locations like Devon Cornwall. And it became second nature, I'd say, the outdoor environments, living under a canvas as well in the tents, a year and a year out, we did that on a regular basis, so I got used to that side. And I understood I'd say the outdoor environment better than I do the urban environment, and developed some skills and experience in the outdoors. But I think my parents played a large part because they were always quite adventurous. We always were fortunate in going on a trip exploring the UK, which I think was really important, such a beautiful country, I'd say the UK. And I'd say there was a family who I call the man of the family's uncle Ken. He sadly passed away not so long ago, and he was quite prominent as well as my father. Both of them with my mother as well got me into the outdoors, I'd say. They sort of encouraged us to go on these long hikes, to go exploring, to understand nature. So I think I'll put that to Uncle Ken, to my father, to my mother. They played a large part. Who were your parents and what was your relationship like with them? So my parents, they both came from India, different parts of India, many, many years ago. They came both with incredible reasons why they came over, they were both adventurous. They were from different parts, my father from North India. His family, I believe, were originally from Punjab, and then they moved over to Uttar Pradesh state to Kampal. My mother's family, they're from the south, from Andhra Pradesh state. My father, I believe, he was of interest. I think in his early years, he tried to join the Air Force, Indian Air Force. He was underage, I can't remember how old he was like 15 or something like that. But he was given permission by the Air Force, provided he got his father's permission, because he was slightly younger to join. So he went back to his father, took this letter saying I can join the Air Force. His father took one look at the letter and apparently ripped it up and told him you're going to be a doctor. That was his Air Force career ended. But he had no regrets. He came a consultant, respiration medicine, and moved over in his early years over to the UK and did really well. My mother, she had another story, another adventure story where her father was a lay preacher. And there was a preacher from Stauberidge, actually, Stauberidge in the Midlands, who was over in South India as a missionary, and befriended my grandfather from my mother's side, who unfortunately I never got to meet. And he said to, I believe, my mother's father, my grandfather one day, that if any of your children ever want to come over to the UK, he's happy to look after them and make sure they're okay. And my mother was one of many siblings. I'm probably losing count, but there's probably a thing my mother had seven other siblings. So a large family. And my mother was the youngest but one I believe. And he said, who wants to, well, my mother's father said to her and her siblings, anyone want to go to the UK. And my mother put her hand up, apparently, so straight away and said, she'll go. And she came over to the UK, studied at the University of Birmingham. And my father was a doctor over in Birmingham. They met over in the UK by chance. Fell in love, got married, and then they had my brother and then myself. And you're the question, our relationship, yes, been wonderful. You know, I've been very fortunate with, I say, my upbringing, having two wonderful parents. My father passed away suddenly, now eight years ago. My mother's still up there in the Midlands. So I've been very fortunate with my upbringing. I think they provided me not only with the love and care, which parents, I believe, should provide the children, but also not being spools, I think it was important. They were, I'd say, firm but fair. So that's why I think they also introduced us to other things in life, such as the adventure side, the outdoors. And I think part of the mental discipline and even physical discipline I developed over the years came from that, because I just remember being really young. My brother, you see, is about seven years older than me. So bit of an age gap, especially when you're a child, and you think about the physical capability. And I remember going for these really long walks. To me, they were like really long walks in North Wales. And we used to go on forever and ever, and I'd be getting tired. And my parents' attitude was like tough, keep up. So I thought, well, I've got no choice. I've just got to get on with it. No point in winging complaining. I've got to do it. I've got to get from A to B, from no other way. So I did that. And that, I think, helped me in good stead. Actually, you just got to get on with things and no point winging complaining. Get on with it and do your best. What about school? What was school like for you? School game was great. I enjoyed it. I went to Hydeville Tower School. It's a school in Warsaw when I was younger. And then secondary school, school-couple-queen Mary's, grammar school. I had a good time there. It was a game that was nice about the school, which I think is really important for a child's education. It's not just focusing on the academia. It's everything else. un pawb mう eich gallw 새� credibility a yw'n sl Baptist gymun yn cyffindant o concluddiol huner civil diwch wedi me親iaidd ac extremelybisio Caen extrêmement baran honomaurio DRU a'r insecti Lordau ac yfniol, siadio ' services i mynd, ond y band đã hwn i ingen y goff playgrill AM ein gorfer 70 i untowys i % skilled ac mae riddi'u gydweithiouen grawnau hylliwedd 発 Dw i 's gael fe tailb mewn cene Usually reis yn gwael mapb i prynnu A y ffordd cu她f di就到 tryfyd i'r Wi'r ymdol "What was it for you as a young man that you were thinking about your future and what you wanted to do in the world?" I'd say I had a trip actually in Africa, I'm Mark Kidman Jarrow, and I met the leader at the time, "It's a really good friend of mine now." He said to me afterwards, "Do you want to go on an expedition?" And then, so, a couple of us on that trip joined him on an expedition where we went over to Nepal, which, as you know, is such an amazing, beautiful country with some of the most awesome mountains in the world. And we climbed a mountain over there, and he knew how I was in the outdoor environment, so he recommended for me, he worked as one of the top guys in the world, and he recommended me for a company he worked for just to work on this trek, and I worked on this trek in Nepal after our climbing expedition, and the company then said to me, "Do you want to work again?" Because things went really well, had really good feedback from the group, successful expedition, so then I worked for them and started leading trips over the years, and then other companies I started guiding for as well on these expeditions, and things again went well. And then, clients said to me, "Why don't you set your own business up?" So, I did, I set up my own expedition company, and then got asked to do some interesting jobs, you know, some unique jobs, some media work, and hopefully because I had a good success rate on my expeditions, you know, people achieved their aim, what they were trying to do, what it was climbing and mountain, whether it was a finished trek, but also get a lot from these expeditions, and what I call positive transformation, which is really important. Yeah, absolutely. And it feels like with you that you have two careers, you've got the medical side as a doctor, and you've got the expedition side as an expedition leader. In your formative years throughout your 20s, did they exist parallel to each other, or was it one before the other? What was kind of, how did it pan out for you? Pretty much parallel, so I qualified in medicine, started working as a doctor, and then probably about one, two years after that, I started working in the door industry on expeditions. And so what I did was take time off to do both, sort of, maybe worked, for example, like six months in medicine, and then did six months of expeditions, either my own expeditions, to build up my expertise, but also then working for companies as well, professionally on these expeditions. So I sort of did that almost, I say, hand-in-hand over time. Why was that? Because honestly, to become a doctor, notoriously hard, you dedicate all your life, time, and energy, and for you, it's like you got qualified, and now you want to go climb a mountain. So why was that, what was that within you that thought, "Okay, I'm here, I've made it, I'm a doctor, now I'm going to go spend six months going as an expedition leader?" I think, to me, if you've got other skills or talents, it's criminal not to utilize them to the best of your ability, so it's a shame to waste them. So I think I had, I suppose, some skills in other areas. And I suppose as well, with the UK, sometimes people like putting you in a box, labelling a person, and people can have so many other abilities and skills which don't get utilized. And at that time, I remember, I was advised not to diversify my professional career and just focus on medicine. I remember people in the medical world at the time was saying that it will hamper my chances in progression in medicine, maybe getting future jobs, because it might be seen that I'm not dedicated to the cause, I'm not committed. And I ignore that advice, because again, I thought, actually, it could potentially enhance you as a human being, maybe enhance me as a doctor as well, doing other things. Because skills can be cross-transferrable, I believe, to other areas. And also, you gain a lot of life experience, which is really important, I think, being a good doctor. So I, and I remember as well, I got interviewed with my medical work when I finished my exhibition work, came back and went from another medical job. I was asked about that in just about every interview, why am I doing these things? And I gave a truthful answer, and told them, actually, one thing is, I believe it can enhance you as a human being as a doctor, things you learn, and you can cross-transfer those skills. But it also gives you a lot of appreciation about what you got. And I think I remember even saying in one interview that there are people I've met in some of these countries, which will probably literally give the right arm to be in their position that I'm in the UK. So it helps you, whereas when I've seen other doctors, if they're morale's low or they're stressed, and they're feeling a bit miserable because medical work can be quite challenging, can be quite tough and stressful. I actually, for me, I sort of turn it around and thinking, actually, it's great what I've got. I can have a hot shower in the morning. I can put bread on the table because I'm earning well. So life's great. What is there to be miserable about? I'm very lucky with what I do. So I think it also gave me a great appreciation. And I said that in the interviews. And I actually never had a problem. In all the interviews I went for medically, I never had a problem in getting a job. So I think, hopefully, I made the right career decision. Prove those people well. And at that time where you're going to do the expedition side and you're doing the medical side, how are you feeling in yourself? Like, obviously, now you're really confident having all these great achievements behind you and really accomplished. But at that time, I think everyone knows when they're young. You're trying to work things out. And you're wondering if things really will work out or not. How did you feel in yourself at that time where you're just trying to find your path? I actually just felt I had my path. This was like a natural path to me. In the sense that I think it's good for people to have a maybe a long-term objective array and having some sort of purpose. But then it's also important to explore all those little side rows which stem off from that main path. You just never know where it will lead and what opportunities could develop. So I try to be in the moment to be honest. I just went on this journey. I think that journey is important and try to enjoy that journey experience. It's still having maybe a name later on. But then being in that moment, just enjoying that journey and seeing where all these little side paths would lead. One was on that journey now. Let's say someone like me. Or any young person that is looking to get into the outdoors industry. What advice would you give to these people who are just starting out? And this could be not just specifically in the expedition industry. But anything to do with the outdoors, what advice would you give to these people who want to follow that path? Go and do it. I just think the outdoors can bring so many benefits. What I believe are not only just sort of professionally, but also in developing that person. Because whatever career path that person does. So let's say they want to do the outdoors, but they think actually maybe it's not feasible. It's not for them. They want to do something else. What they are learning the outdoors potentially can really hold them and they can instead for the future lifelong skills and education. And it can really strengthen that individual and develop their character. So to me, what I see in some aspects of society now, we're losing that affinity, I believe, with the outdoors. We're embedding ourselves less and less now with the outdoors. Fathawn mae beramjade wedi gstoff wedi'u batteri'g立au cylius yma i ffordd, byddai wedi'i sþdyn nhw cwestiaeth ein aeidull diga��λη ein cyfl Sabbath wedi Gymrel o accepteda yn gypr ddym Wel egglectio y byddai fr też y fairlynostedd. Oby� y cyflatorio â rheolgol i ddyn frustration â eu cael nador ei hawshaf a racsefios cyda re 더� processמע Kyl. Mae'n i'r cyflynnod yn ymwyr i'r cyflwy amddiad yn yna. Mae'r cyflwy amddiad yn yr yna yna i fod yna i'n ei'r cyflwy amddiad yn yr yna. Mae'n ei wneud yna, mae'n ei wneud yn ei wneud. Mae'r cyflwy amddiad yn yr yna. Mae'n ei ffordd o ffordd o ffordd o yna. mae'n gallw ARD yna clydigo? Ac sy'n gallucbong ondon doedd itil bod yn neslu gwens fel hijbol yn chworal kaikki. Mae amrydy much法ioscofio yw ar yni gwούwk(weith natrych fel tyrhau, a'r ffotol i bosol, me campaignsol itifies) Ieg i'w i'r gwybod yn gweithio ac yn ymdod yn ymddoedd. Mae'r gwybod yn ymddoedd yn ddechrau'r gwybod yn ymddoeddol, a gwybod yn ymddoedd yn ymddoedd yn gwybod yn ymddoedd yn gwybod yn ddynos. Mae'r gwybod yn ddynos, mae'r gwybod yn gwybod yn ddynos. Mae'r gwybod yn gwybod yn ddechrau'r gwybod yn ddynos. Mae'n gwaith yna o'r cyfynnol amser, ac mae yna yn ymreddau amser yna fel yna amser yna. Mae'n gwaith i'r unig yna fel yna fel yna fel yna fel yna. Mae'n gwaith i'r unig yna fel yna fel yna. Mae'n gwaith i'r argymdyn yn gwaith. Mae'n gwaith i'r unig yna fel yna yn gwaith. Mae'n gwaith i'r unig yna fel yna yn gwaith, mae'n gwaith i'r unig yna fel yna, yna fel yna fel yna yna fel yna fel yna. 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Mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, ac mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantast i'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, mae'r gydyn nhw'n ffantastig, o'r i'r sgwth i'r cyflwy. Diorn ar y ffordd yr undwr отвoli wnaeth gymaet staposhta'r llyfhgorauagen acynau hynny wrth wneud ar fill hynny'n pef strategio a yma felly usebhwnaeth, wrth feeddenau ôl ieration â'r b Anfang yn meddwl yno cyfynlu f am雓 y lawian泣 abusee wahan mw stop gebl一次 chopped oedau ffael exposingeth y nossa website a ddiad button sheetmat yn ag Falloutoot yn a Tulin economos syl解 sylfa oris M dolphin Galliad cages i digithion kerfodit o swydd sy'n gorffатnod Gem мог. Desai o fel chwailwn I wedi'r dysllulu ddans hebothמע an Properlythol 87 mae'r해� y gyshef, mae'r oθ dimhole Mae gwneud agedde olegad. �neddol amser hyrnyddiunostionat, ar hyn niol'n amser nad aedd ei yn werid hyrnydaydol gyda mewn gladda hyrnydyll 'GroRep beth ff прин er 'Groppa angeb sTHE RaidogRinau. Undyn y lean er ffw eag o hefyd. En chi callf yr rang ger nodio a'r callf yr hyrnyddiad. Mae'r hyrnyddiad yn ymwch hyrnyddiad yn ffw eag o hefyd. Mae'r hyrnyddiad yn ffw eag o hefyd. Rwy'n ffw eag o hefyd. Mae'r hyrnyddiad yn ffw eag mae'n transportiad nhw'n iawn mahai Mart record, nw'r ate ceil ac syис llantennu'n y fîl eraill. Eid mwy ein ysafhaط fo, ddyn nhw'relly am ni ei meddwl f cadre лиh jeb yn infectionsl, у lly squawr a instviadau es wedi cheerfci感謝, ond nhw Hitler yn rheol. Ym cent gweld le fi hiad yma. Troau. Ym wedi p對了ft기는au i'n sem wedi fis patternoeg gydyn nhw Ond yn ym yn ymw i'r cyflwy. Mae'n ymw i'r cyflwy yn ymw i'r cyflwy. Mae'n ymw i'r cyflwy. So risk assessments will be done before the expedition, which I was part of by doing a wrecky before to make sure the route was okay for them beforehand. But at the time things will change on the ground whether it's weather conditions, whether it's actually the group can't do this or don't want to do this. So then we have to look for new areas. So I'd always be thinking and always been trying to work out two or three steps ahead, which was really important. When you're in the Amazon with David Beckham and there was stuff going wrong as the nature of expeditions go and hence the adventure of it, was there ever points where from what you've described sounds like a lot of pressure, were there points where you were thinking to yourself that you were struggling or that there were ever hairy moments? So there were one or two moments. I probably won't repeat on it. Yeah. But yeah, I mean that was part your job as an expedition leader. I mean to me we're an expedition leader, earns a sort. It's not when everything's going fantastic well because then anyone could potentially do that job. It's when something does happen is how do you redress that, how do you get things back on track and that's where all your skills and expertise you want to use all of that you've gained as an expedition leader and put that to good use to make sure things things actually work well. Yeah. So that's that's important. So I think yeah all the expeditions, all the experience I've gained before was certainly put to good use I say on that expedition. Now even I'll give you some things about, for example the wrecky, just doing the wrecky was challenging itself because some of the areas you went to, remember turning up one of the areas we set up for David and his group. It was a little water channel to which goes into the Rio Negro. Absolutely stunning but you know you arrive there on the wrecky and the the local people advising you not to go on that water channel because they said something like a 7 metre anaconda had just popped out the water 24 hours before and there's also a sting raising, a caiman also in the water. So you think about it but you think but then you've got to use your judgment you're going to be risk assessment and part of the wrecky was if we know we can do it we're there to check it's going to be reasonably safe for David and his friends still having the adventure but we've got you know his safety is going to be paramount so we've got to do that to make sure that we can risk assess it properly and then the boats we had we had like a fisherman's boat which seemed to have a bit of a hole as well but then I assessed that and thought well it'll be a slow leak for what we want to try to do it'll be fine so we got onto the water to wreck out the route the dead vegetation we had to clear which might prove hazardous when the group tried to do it and we were there for hours and hours physically demanding psychologically could be demanding as well I remember one of the times on that route when we do the wrecky this large spider fell from the vegetation onto the boat and it was me and one of the local guides there called Conjardo and we both looked at each other I think we knew psychically what we were thinking is this the most venomous spider in the world because the most venomous spider in the world I believe comes from Brazil which is the Brazilian wandering spider and it could be that one but we weren't too sure and thankfully he was closer to it so I remember him getting his awe and then starting having a battle with the spider and managing again he had a little fight with it and he managed to pull it out out the boat thankfully and you know who knows how deadly would have been so so a lot of things which happened even in the the wrecky and then when we actually got onto the Rio Negro so he was meant the whole day hours of getting through some dense vegetation we were we were bailing the the water out the boat so every few minutes we'd get some of the water and get it at the boat we got onto the wide open channel in the Rio Negro and then it was starting to get dark and a speedboat was going to meet us as part of the wrecky to take us to this beautiful little island in the middle of Rio Negro which we're going to use as part of part of the filming and we're there paddling for hours and hours and then the speedboat wasn't turning up and we just kept going and going and still no speedboat to meet us and in the end he got dark so we're actually on the middle of Rio Negro in darkness now and we had the head torches well the thing was the local guides I had my head torch and so right let's get our our light on now none of them had head torches which was another issue and then there were some vegetation or trees looked like they're coming out of the water so I thought in the darkness if we hit one of these trees and the boat got damaged and we sunk would be in trouble so we're going to have to go onto the on to the shores onto the bank and pitch up for the night so we did that and we'll start a game first daylight and so daylight came and then I got a satellite phone out made a call to find out what's happened to the speedboat space meters and found out that I think the speedboat person he something to do with football game which was on and I think he found that far more important than actually trying to meet us to carry on the wrecky so there are a lot of things happen so that was just the example of some of the things in the wrecky what what happened how challenging it was so you can imagine what what then also happened on expeditions but yeah the wrecky was interesting enough wow I mean you must have been pretty pissed off now I mean you just go with the flow yeah you can't view anything about there's no point getting annoyed or whatever so that it came then that morning you know it was the evening before so it came and met us it all was okay we carried on with the wrecky and completed it as much as we could so yeah it was yeah it was certainly fantastic expedition interesting and challenging at the same time yeah just I mean just awesome and you're on the show ss who does wins where you are the doctor correct on the show what's it like working with these guys these guys who are ex special forces and they're now coming out of the woodwork and letting people know that they were in the military at the top to be point of it what was it like working with the guys it's great to work with them I mean that what I like is they take the course seriously so they see it as a course and the the people going on these course whether it's members of the public or celebrities the the people the ds the directing staff the people I work with they want the the contestants or the the course students to get their most out of it you know they see it as a journey for them that they undertake these challenges and hopefully they'll develop and you see that happening through the course how these people can develop and again positive transform because they take that challenge they're outside they come for zones and again I think they can develop a certain amount of resilience from these and the the directing staff they they take it seriously you know all those are TV show and these are our challenges which are created specially for the for the contestants but they take each thing seriously you know the welfare of the contestants is paramount to the directing staff but they want them to get the most out of it so they they challenge them they test them and they they see them develop so so that's what I like you know all the director staff I work with they they make sure that the contestants get the get the most out of it so they really put a lot of care and attention they're great guys you know great guys to work with a lot of their experience they and expertise they've got through what they've done over the years and yeah nice people also good good amusing moments with them because you've got to have a sense of humor in in what you do you know no matter what the challenges are you in some challenging environments as well where where you film it I mean I've been involved in two of the shows one in Vietnam around the the jungles around there and one in New Zealand in a different environment in the mountains over there although it was quite cold as well with the the snow in New Zealand and then hot and humid in in Vietnam so real contrast so challenging conditions and you've all got to get together and work as a team you know you need that cohesion to to to get through it and they work well as a team, you know, so really nice guys to be around. What's it like when when the cameras are off because obviously we get to see it as people just getting beasted around a course and These hard men screaming in their faces, but when the cameras are off if they are over off What are you guys doing when when you're in your Commodation or in your mess area? Well, well what I like is how they are you know that On screen off screen It's it's what they are like for real so they don't they don't put on a I can call it a sort of facade when they're on screen. It's like how they are off screens. They're they're quite real So they're they can be shouting and bawling, but that's sort of not really they don't make it personal That's what they do to everyone. I mean that's just part of I Spades bit of it's for TV, but that's what they do to just challenge the people you know put them under a bit of pressure So they don't they never I see them, you know Just want to pick on an individual for this reason on that reason They're the same to everyone they just want to put on people in the pressure get them out the comfort zones by maybe Shouting and bawling a bit and but how they are generally On on the screen just with the way they are you know, it's a saying with a off screen So they don't I say put on those airs and graces there generally nice people and And they're quite quite real quite down to earth. So yeah, it's yeah, it's been pleasure working with them And obviously you're you're getting people coming in to see you because they've got a Problem or an issue and they get put through their paces both physically and mentally in the interrogation phase What have you noticed with when people come to you? What sort of issues are they mostly dealing with when they seek your help? Real variety so physical psychological I'd say there's some who come who to me Probably more than minor problem, but they'll come with similar Similar issues repeatedly and then I sometimes realize they're probably struggling Psychologically they're finding it tough which is what the course is designed to be and they're looking for a get out clause They're probably looking for medical withdrawal So if I don't think they're Medically dangerous, you know medically unsafe then I don't withdraw them You know even if they're finding it tough is up to them to keep going or if they want to voluntary withdrawal They can voluntary withdraw, but that'll be up to them if they want to quit They can quit or they can just stick it out and maybe get even more out of it So I won't medically withdraw those so to me I've got to figure figure what's going on with that person You know figure them out get into their their state of mind Other times yeah physically they can have a challenging Medical condition which has just come up because I got an injury and sometimes they want to carry on But I actually think it's they're going to come to to medical harm because my job is to make sure people are going to be safe So I say to them you can't carry on you need to be medically withdrawn because They could potentially come to serious harm and that that can be Psychologically quite tough for them as well And it's challenging for me to tell them that because I know they want to keep going They want to carry on they're not quitting But I know that if they carry on there is a risk They'll come to serious harm so I can't allow that to happen so medically I have to withdraw them So it's quite it's quite interesting for me not only the conditions you see but also Deeding with the contestants in the psychological way as well and how you communicate with them What is it for you that is there anything that markedly cuts those that gets through and those that don't similar traits or the way that they Their mindset works have you noticed a difference in who is it that passes and doesn't Yeah, I think that's a good question. I think the people who there's a few things one of them is you've got to be bothered to do the little things that attention to detail and I find that people when they're really If it's same on expeditions actually if you're tired Hungry, cold, or miserable People can just give up but you just got to be bothered that's when you've got to Carry on doing the things and whether it's giving example of bothered about doing the little things For example in Vietnam with those conditions The hot human environment a lot of rains the feet will be getting wet a hot humid. It's not good for the feet You get different conditions like trench fort and Those sort of things people got to take care of when you're knackered and tired you've got a You've got to you know whether it's opportunity to look after your feet air and change the socks dry them out Rather than just like falling asleep because you're tired now you finish your challenge You want you want to rest you fall asleep can't do that or you've you've got to look after your feet That's just a something might think is a small thing But I such a important thing because then later on people's feet so they don't look after them earlier on They're in bits later on that can really cause them even more issues So going to be bothered doing the little things properly is one of the things and The other thing I say is It's that stress people, you know they get put under and To me it's one of these this thing I remember learning when I was doing expeditions Which are helping in good stead in all sorts of way of life I remember when you Sucline with friends one of the things we had was that if you've got a problem and you could do something about it Why worry if you've got a problem and you can't do anything about it Why worry so so we use that not only in climbing but a lot of us try to use that in life So what's the point of getting? stressed that's what we're trying to say and you see people getting stressed let's say in the show and Those who maybe use a bit of that that saying and try Whatever happens you're gonna have issues no point worrying about it. Let's just get on with it And I think that's really can be helpful. I think the saying originally came I believe from the Dalai Lama But in a much more eloquent way he would have said it and we just we just condensed it How we say on our expeditions, but that? That phrase sticks with me and I see people there who No matter whatever stress is come they have a mindset. We're actually yeah, let's just get on with it There's no point worrying we can't do anything about it. So what is the point worrying about it? You know, so let's just get on with it so people who just want to get on with it Persevere show that grit. They're the ones who Who generally do well? Yeah, and you've spoken about the value of Suffering and pain and what do you mean by that? So it's part of the challenge. I think everyone's got to go through Some suffering and pain in life and it's is how you embrace it in a way and how you Learn from it and use it positively So I think if you if you can do that then you become stronger So if you learn actually what is it? What is that silver lining? What is that lesson learned what can you take because we're all gonna? Have these stresses and we're all gonna suffer and have some pain in all sorts of ways whether it's Pain and suffering climbing a mountain whether it's pain and suffering because you lose a loved one Whether you lose your job with this financial issues, you know, it's not gonna be nice But having that mindset where you've got to somehow take something positive from you've got to learn from it and Then incorporate into your life so you become better as a person later on And stronger so if you can do that if you can have the mindset to try to do that then I think That holds you in better stead, you know that that can help improve your life Later on and helps develop a positive mentality makes you more resilient as a as a person and for someone that Doesn't have as much suffering or pain in their life. They're born into a privileged life There's there's more pleasure and then things are kind of worked out for them in a better way Wardrobe I speak for these people. I think if they've got a purpose in life That's the thing which can keep the person going because I think to have a fulfilling life One needs a meaningful purpose, but if those people no matter how rich you are Poor you are from a materialistic side If you don't have that purpose that's when you'll find it hard find it hard to keep going I'm just trying to think so we've also I mentioned about the resistance executive development expeditions We started doing we've also launched another type of exhibition which is again got a specific focus and that's called adventure therapy and that is looking at people who Want to optimize in mental well-being or even people have mental health conditions and want to improve those conditions whether it's depression, anxiety PTSD addiction for example and we're working with a couple of medical clinics a couple actually in Switzerland who were starting to work with and it was really interesting. Joe just recently I was visiting one of the clinics in Switzerland and met up with a medical director there and this one clinic have actually very wealthy clients for treatment programs and he was saying to me over a month they normally spend a month with them and they get strong. Then the ones who tend to relapse he finds all these wealthy clients are the ones without that purpose and that's important so the ones with the money who stay strong after the treatment they've got a purpose in life and the ones who who relapse they still have the wealth but they don't have that purpose so I think it's having that purpose is really important whether they have that purpose to do some sort of challenge so the medical directors will see is actually what what I do what we do with the adventure therapy side can help give them that purpose or given that adventure given that challenge to and they'll have that focus to maybe help develop that purpose so that's what they want to have us have our involvement now with their clients with their patients to develop that purpose for them given that adventure given that challenge and then ultimately help you build that resilience. Yeah absolutely I found that myself is whenever I'm lost my way or cloudy in the mind then I seek an adventure because an adventure gives me a goal it gives me day by day what I need to be doing it gives me usually a very simple routine of like walk eat clean sleep and just on repetition and that sense of purpose is incredible yeah particularly as you're on your way to that goal but what happens after obviously you get to the goal of the adventure and that provides you with purpose and in the sense that you're talking about that short term purpose of you need to be up this mountain in three weeks time but what about purpose and the wider sense and when you're talking about people who have these mental health issues and don't relapse what is it you really mean when you say that those that don't have purpose in their life what is that thing you're talking about and how can people attain that so it would be people may have a different purpose but they need that driver so it could be for example these people then get inspired the ones who don't relapse I can't say exactly what their purpose is but I'm just throwing some examples it could be actually you know they're wealthy people they have built up some sort of empire let's say with their wealth but then they have another idea they have a purpose to to build something else and one of the ideas is especially with the positive transformation side is not only do you positive transform well if you positive transform yourself you then go on to try to help other people positive transform so it could be that they they have an idea where they they set up a new company and build something else which will give them that purpose it will it will be their driver keep them going keep them motivated but then what I like to see is maybe then whatever they start new will go on to help other people so those little ripples can create big waves later on like I know for me one of you know my purposes is I've been lucky I got a lot from my expeditions and we have a foundation now the the Eventually Beech Foundation where we we try to help other communities we come to us because they they ask us for help and I'm thinking you know that's my purpose I've got a lot from life and lot from my expeditions and if you can help others that will be fantastic so that's my purpose as well as my clients as well because I've I've got a lot of inspiration from my expeditions and if I can inspire others now to achieve their aims then that's a wonderful thing so that's my purpose I get my buzz out of trying to inspire others and also now trying to put back into some of the places we've been to on expeditions where there's in the UK whether it's in Nepal which we both love whether it's other countries so we've got a project at the moment in Nepal I'm going to for this school accommodation which is destroyed in the earthquake in 2015 and hasn't been rebuilt so we're trying to try and develop that for children with hearing impairment we have another project in Massanga Hospital in Sierra Leone where we run expeditions there which is a beautiful and a wild place you know real adventure over there and it's a rural hospital which does a lot of good for people so we're trying to help a project there so it could be that these people with this wealth they they develop purpose maybe to to go on to help others which ensure you know a lot of them may do I can't say what their purpose is it could be their family maybe they have a purpose to do with something in the family or community but they need to find that purpose maybe they they I know I've given talks so one thing I do is do talks whether it's about the expeditions whether it's about leadership about resilience and I've I've known people feedback to me that from that talk they've got a new purpose and one of them I know is taken on climbing and he's got a lot from that he's developed and that's just given him more of a purpose and I've had similar stories as well just from these talks what people gone to and give him a new purpose to try this and that so who knows what these individuals would do what their purpose would be but they need to find their own purpose yeah and what I love is how you describe purpose as this ever-changing evolving thing because I feel like at the moment we're told or even asked questions like what is your passion what is your purpose like it's this now this definite thing that we meant to have and if we don't have it then something's wrong in our lives but also you came you came from an angle of seeing purposes helping others and how it's actually not about us I feel like in a time where everyone's thinking what is my passion what is my purpose they're actually perhaps missing the point which is about how can you help others what skills do you have that might be able to contribute to society and through doing those altruistic outward looking activities you can find your own purpose so wow what a life of adventure what incredible things you've done with your life you travel around the world loads of adventure you're here there everywhere you you got a flight yesterday what's the cost of living this life where you're all over the world I've I personally have been very fortunate but like anything if you pursue something there are always sacrifices to be made for me I suppose I don't think it's just cost me much I think it's just enhanced my life and hopefully enhanced those around me there are little things again which I think about maybe in an amusing way like for example when I was doing the expeditions a lot it's missing missing things which to me are important whether it's actually friends birthdays or weddings reunions it's people it's people to me that make world go around and so missing things interacting with my friends that's one of the sacrifices now I've I'm fortunate with what I've done and achieved so I I've got flexibility in my life which is it's really good really useful so I can I don't have to go off you know for months at a time I can be present and making sure I go to these things whether it's birthdays or mis reunions weddings or whatever and seeing people that can't and matter so I knew at some point I'll make time for that so I think that's important so so for me there hasn't been there hasn't been a big cost it's been a little cost and I think I've got so much more out of it but yeah those are things I could think of tough on my head just I remember the time yeah missing out on certain things which which I had to if I wanted to pursue what I was trying to do at the time so so to me I I knew the risks and what I could miss out but then I also would accept the consequences but I knew as well that actually if I did those things then I'd have I'll be in a better place later on which I feel like I am now it's been a yeah one hell of a journey how is it what's it like now reflecting back on on all these adventures you've done and careers you've had and is there a time where you think to yourself right time to hang out the boots go find a village or a community to be a part of full-time how do you feel about all that I mean I feel I'm you know part of a Salvanyllau o Dublin sango ran, taş yn edrych thereby wrth'm cymrynydd timdan cael de说g o brushed. No bhi mar душaint a ffordd a sefyloed yn iddech wedi �θεport newidcies tefynald hered gweld trebwisedyn oeddfa eisiauloriaeth oedd corsi foychiawerios Nog ei llas sut yn bagellygu wedi sy'n medecho a fydd ar fyowrolt ar oeddfa sy'n cymryng i ehu ond uy cndddenau ryundaeth yn cael dewch ffinnyddaf aynnawwnt fueffirp neu ended 소�èd Fondrên dobl 120椫 yn cyfurydnur, adelg i'wyt gydy wedi g aneddidir, al fan fel gwneud gwneud ac heddiw cymnaen ac cesbenau meddwl totogi phai bagod pwarwch cynnillydd sa cre casty si Dda mewer o gyms neu��au Cyfridew跳 a mae'r eisiau gwneud pressolňd Furdwl. Yna gocyth ukwast kitor daol gwaith yr homor fan ddysgu sef hi wedi llew cent i bethau ac yn ymwch yw'r cyfurydnur, ac yn ymwch yw'r cyfurydnur ac yn ymwch yw'r cyfurydnur ac yn ymwch yw'r cyfurydnur ac yn ymwch yw'r cyfurydnur ac yn ymwch yw'r cyfurydnur ac yn ymwch yw'r cyfurydnur ac yn ymwch yw'r cyfurydnur of i eich gallu yィegan iawn. Herni yn fforddau. Sommerau eu honfeld 의 genwchydd? Eine y som Zapadwystor fofo. Deol yw i tant mae y ffordd ddefnywod. Mae'n ffordd ddefnywod. Are you ready? Yep, go for it. First one. How can people start a career in the outdoors? They can contact outdoor companies, companies and get their advice and say what jobs are available, what skills they need to do beforehand or qualifications they need to be able to work in that industry. Or they might know friends and people who have qualifications experience, those kind of jobs, they can try to speak with them. Also social media, they might be content, who knows, and some of the platforms from people in the outdoors who can give that advice and knowledge. Books as well, reading books about those specific areas can give them that knowledge. What would be your top three pieces of equipment in a jungle survival scenario? I'd say a machete or it could be a bushcraft knife, something like a lap-lander saw, so those two objects would be useful. Third one, third one, third one, third one, third one, I think, a satellite phone. So, bit of technology there, because actually if you get a break from the canopy and then you need to make a call because you've got an emergency, then at least you can get some help. Cool. What is your favourite food out on expedition? Peanut M&Ms. Nice. What would you rather adventure and operate in and why? Hot climate or cold climate? Both. Just a nice Mediterranean, 20 degrees or? No, I mean, any hot or cold they're both challenging. Yeah, so I like a challenge. You can't choose. There's not one that's significantly harder or. There, but I mean, I've been, I've operated in conditions, I'd say, 50 degrees heat down to probably a reckon minus 60 degrees and they're both very challenging. Yeah, okay, fair enough. Who do you admire most in your industry and why? Ooh, I honestly don't know, I think because there's several people. I'm trying to think from. Oh, Spays, one of my friends who got me into it, I think I mentioned the story about one of the guys I met on Kilimanjaro, who then invited me to an expedition and then recommended me to work for this outdoor company. And I did and then developed my career. And I think probably because of him encouraging me and also recommending me to the company, I may not be where I am. I might have been, but he, he's somebody I, I learnt a lot from, I say. Yeah, and sometimes it's. You need those people who can just give you a nudge or support you and show you the way. Brad, thank you so much for coming onto this podcast. It's been so good speaking with you, so good to see you. And yeah, I just really appreciate you making the time because I know that you're super busy and travelling around the world to come and see me and talk to me on my podcast, which has really just got going. So it's so good to have you on. And yeah, I really appreciate you sharing all of your wisdom about adventure and the importance of having it in our lives. And also what people can do to live happier and healthier lives that's more connected to the world and themselves. So thanks very much for coming on. Thank you very much, Jake, for having me. It's been great to see you and chat with you. And it will be the best for your future adventures. Thank you. Cheers.