5 Rules of Money: How to Make It, Save It, & Be Smarter About It

Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Thank you for hanging out with me. I just love spending time with you and I also wanted to acknowledge you for something. You are listening to this podcast and that's really cool because you listen knowing that it could help you make your life better and I just want to say that's awesome go you. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Thank you, thank you, thank you for making this podcast one of the most popular podcasts in the entire world. I'm Mel Robbins. I'm a New York Times bestselling author and one of the world's leading experts on confidence and motivation. And I have a really simple mission showing up here talking to you twice a week. I just want to inspire and empower you with tools and experts. Today you're going to meet an incredible expert who's going to give you the resources and the strategies that you need to create a better life. And that brings me to today's conversation. The five things that you need to know to take control of your financial life. Who is in the chair today? I'm so freaking fired up for this. Tiffany Alice is here. She is known as the Bajanista and here's what I love about her. She's not only going to break this entire topic of money and your financial life down. She is so amazingly relatable and entertaining. You're going to learn so many cool things. You're going to learn how to increase your savings without depriving yourself. How to get out of debt. You're going to learn three ways to boost your credit score like that. And one of my all time favorite concepts about money. She calls it paying yourself first and you have to learn this. I want to be very clear about something. I am unbelievably talented when it comes to making money. But I am not a financial expert. In fact, I consider myself to be bad with money. And it may surprise you to hear that I feel that way about myself. And I'll admit to you, I have a lot to learn when it comes to being responsible with money, managing money. And if I dig even deeper, I have a lot of emotion about money. See, I shop when I'm stressed. And even though I can pay my bills at this moment in my life, I don't open my bills when they arrive. They literally sit there in a little stack. I don't know if you have a little stack like in the entryway of your house or on the counter in the kitchen. But I always have like a little stack. I don't know what it is. I kind of want to get to the bottom of it today. And this has been the way that I've been for as long as I can remember. In fact, I can give you some examples. If I go back to college, so I arrive at college and they have that sort of like opening registration forum thing. There's these tables and clubs you can join. When I went to college, I'm 55 years old, no kidding. There were banks there. And they were handing out credit cards, like literally handing out credit cards as if it was candy to trick or treaters. All you had to do, walk up to a table, fill out a form. You get a credit card. I'm like, I'll take a credit card. It was like free money until I graduated with $10,000 in debt. And I had no idea what I'd spend it on. And that led to the next era in my life of financial irresponsibility in which I would play this game that I called credit card leapfrog, which basically involved Mel Robbins searching for a credit card with a 0% offer and then transferring my balance for my last credit card that I had maxed out to this new one. And I get it. I was an idiot. And the fact is, though, that what was really going on is I was intimidated by money. And I was also really embarrassed by the reality of my financial situation. And it felt like living in financial quickstand. And when I got into my 20s, my first job after law school was to be a public defender. And I could barely make the ends meet. I mean, I'm talking pay rent, pay for groceries. And so I started putting my living expenses on a credit card. I mean, it got so bad in terms of me being in debt and just constantly being irresponsible around it that when Chris and I got married 28 years ago, I came into that marriage with five or six credit cards that were completely maxed out. And I've, did I tell him? No. I'm being serious. In fact, if I sit here and really think about it, I'm not sure he even knows this today because I kept it secret. And I just kind of kept paying the minimum balance. And I'm telling you this because I think this is more common than most of us realize. And when you get into debt, where you are like I was and you are constantly living beyond your means because you're like, okay, I feel terrible. So I don't want to sit and look at my bills. So I'm just going to go out and spend money that I don't have. And eventually I'll have money. And so it just creates this level of stress and shame. And it became for me a very toxic cycle that was hard to break out of. And, you know, as my story progresses, a lot of you know that when I was in my 40s, my husband and his best friend, followed a dream of going into the restaurant business. And like a lot of you who are small business owners, we put up our house as the collateral for that business because that's all the collateral that we had. And that's great when your business is successful. But the market took a turn. The business started to fail. We found ourselves 800 grand in debt. I'm 41 years old, three kids under the age of 10. And let me tell you some. If you think a credit card bill is scary, that is nothing compared to what it feels like to have leans start arriving in the mail saying they've hit your house and bankruptcy notifications. And so many of you that have heard that story, that was my life 15 years ago. Want to know, Mel, oh my god, $800,000 in debt, almost going to lose your house. You were unemployed. How the hell did you get out of debt? And I've never really given the answer because I just outworked it. Like that literally is the answer that I realized nobody was coming. I realized that my husband was doing the best he can to try to keep the business afloat. He hadn't been paid in like six months. Like if I was going to think that I had to do something. And what that looked like is working like a freak. I mean, I had two, three, four jobs at a time. I just never stopped. And I started chipping away at the credit card bills and paying off the minimum balances and then making more chunks. And then when I paid him off, I cut him up. And when I finally got myself out of debt, not mortgage, I still have a mortgage. But like all of that debt that had racked up, the leans on the house, all that stuff. That was like six years ago. I had one rule. Any dollar that came in, 50 cents had to go into savings. Why? Because it was so terrifying to be under that kind of excruciating financial stress and shame. I never wanted to be in that position again. And I know there's a lot that I can learn, which is why I'm so excited to learn from Tiffany. But I'm also here because I look at my three kids, our adult kids. So 25, 23 and 18. And here's what scares me. I pass this stuff down to our daughters. I see them struggling with their relationship with money. It's not a powerful relationship. They are scared of it. They want more of it. They don't feel empowered by it. And you know, one of them is so afraid that she will never have enough money that she's like a squirrel. She works like crazy. She's always working on something. And then she's taken the nut and she's squirreling it away. And she's not enjoying it. And then there's our other daughter who's 23. And she is identical to how I used to be. And you know what she does? She does what I do. She shops. And she buys something that she can't afford. In fact, the other time I was talking to her on FaceTime, this was two days ago. She's sitting there eating something that look weird. I'm like, what is that? She's like, oh, it's CMOS. It's like the next thing everybody's eating it now. LAYMOM, which means of course you have to buy it in some organic blah blah blah blah blah, that kind of thing, which means it costs maybe on the budget of a serving artist. And so I know better. I'm like, don't share anything now because you know, that's not a good thing to do. But I feel like I don't know how to empower my kids to break out of the cycle with money that I was trapped in. And that is why I am so excited when our next guest today said, Mel, the Mel Robbins puck, of course I'll get on a plane and fly to Boston and sit down with you and spend time teaching you, Mel and you listening, the five things that you need to know to take control of your financial life. Tiffany, Alice is here. And you might have already met her before because she is an expert and star in the Netflix series Get Smart with Money. Her podcast Brown Ambition has won a webby award. Her book Get Good With Money is a New York Times best seller. And she is built an eight figure business. And she runs an eight figure business. And she has been in the depths of debt. And you know what's interesting is I can almost hear right now all the moms and dads pulling up the share button and sharing this episode. to their kids because you know as soon as we're done editing this, this is going straight to my kids. And if you're listening to this because your mom or dad or aunt or uncle or brother or sister sent this to you, I want to tell you some. You're going to freaking love Tiffany. And you need to hear it. Tiffany has helped two million people just like you save, manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars. And one of the reasons why I like her so much is she's been there. She understands what it's like to be undercrushing debt, to be a victim of a scam, to not be able to pay your bills. And she is living proof that you can learn everything you need to learn. You can literally not only climb out of that debt, you can build a mountain of wealth. And she's going to meet you wherever you are. So are you ready to get good with money? I sure am. Tiffany, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I'm so excited to be here now. I would love to just jump in and talk about your story with money. And first of all, I want to offer up that your story is very common. That you know, you are not the exception, but the rules. So many of us, especially when we're younger, struggle with our financial relationship with money. Yeah. So like I'm not surprised by some of the things you went through, because I went through them as well. And when you've helped as many people as you've helped, I would imagine that you hear some of the same things, whether it's fear or shame, what is something that you want someone to know? If they're struggling to pay their bills right now, or they are like Chris and I were their house has leans on it. They're in a mountain of debt. And they think they've done all the right things, but they're still feeling this level of why can't I get this right? What is your overarching message in terms of what's possible for somebody? Well, one, I want you to know that it is quite possible. If you can hear the sound of my voice, it means that you are still currently here. Yes. And because you're still currently here, then you can turn around whatever situation or circumstances you're in. I promise you. Awesome. No matter how much debt you have, no matter how many, when you said 800,000, I'll say, I see your 800 and I had 300,000. But we're going to get to that. So why don't we get into, I know your background, but why don't you tell everybody how you became the Bajanista, like your background? I feel like I was born into the Bajanista. I'm one of five girls. My parents are both immigrants from Nigeria. And my dad especially was really focused on teaching his girls about money. Okay. He was an accountant. He has his bachelors in economics, his masters in finance. And we had money lessons at home. Wow. Yeah. So every Thursday we would have like a family meeting, usually about chores and homework, but also the family's financial state. Wow. And honestly, when you're a kid, you think like whatever is happening in your home is like, that's what happens everywhere. It wasn't until probably middle school. And I'm like, you guys don't, you don't have money class. Because my dad let us know this is normal. Everyone does this. And I'm like, so you don't do Thursday night and money sessions. Got it. Okay. But it was great because, I mean, at the time, I didn't think it was great. But it really taught us the basics and not to be afraid of money because we talked about it so openly. Okay. Like he would leave the light bill on the dining room table. And he would say, if the light bill goes down, we could put money into our our traveling fund and we can go to Disney. You know what? I'm stealing that right now. No, I'm serious because I think as a parent, having an 18 year old son, like I come downstairs in the morning. And if he's the last one up, it's like every life in the house is on. And you can say it intellectually. Yes. But even just that strategy of leaving the bill out and saying, if you turn off the lights, this is lower. And I can use that money to do more things for you. Yes. That's a great tip. Thank you to your dad. Because one of the things that he understood and is then kids don't care about your bills. I don't care if your kid is 30 or three. True. They don't care about your bills. What they do care about is what's important to them. And so if you can link your bills to what's important to them, then they will care about that outcome. Match it to what's important. And then all of a sudden even for yourself, like money for money's sake is usually not motivation enough. Yeah. You know, matching it to a thing vacation, less work, more time with family. If you can match it to something that's important, then it's easy to stick to the money goal. Interesting. So did you like literally graduate from high school and head off into your life and you were already chipping away, saving millions of dollars? I was financially quote unquote perfect until about 2526 because I just did what my parents told me to do. Okay. That's around that age. Gotcha. You know, you start, old people call it smelling yourself when you're like, I'm grown. I can do what I'm working here. And so I was really good at savings. I went to school for business. And I hated all my internships because I'm fun. And it was like, I'm dying here. Yes. And so I decided I wanted to teach because I love kids. And I thought I think I want to be a teacher, but I don't want to be broke. How do I reconcile those two things? Yes. So I decided, well, if I'm really good with my money, I can take a job that takes less, that pays less. True. So I did then. I became a preschool teacher. I thought you were great at that. Oh my God. I was the best. Am I going to lie? Everybody loves mischief and I mean, because I was like 21 and I had a ball. Okay. So you are following the advice of your parents, you are working the systems, you are able to do a job that you love. Yes. You are checking all the boxes. What happened? Saving, saving, saving. Okay. I lived home for the first year. Smart. And my dad showed me how to do my own taxes. So much so that I was so good at my budgeting and managing money that I will show the other teachers. Yeah. The maintenance men would come in during nap time. The parents, I started to have like parent university. So the kids would nap, parents would come in and I would show them, this is how you budget. This is how you save. And that's how the budget is that was born informally because I realized I don't just like teaching kids. I like teaching this too. Right. You know, that's super cool. You know, and then I want to say about 25. That's when I said, I don't actually want your advice anymore because I'm an adult. You mean your father. Yes. Okay. I'm an adult. I have it. I have it. And so it was then that I decided to go back for my master's in education. I thought maybe I'd be a principal. So all of a sudden it would be a great principal too. Well, you know, I don't know because I feel like you put the best people in the classroom if I'm being honest. And that's when I realized after my master's 50,000 dollars later, I don't like this. So I didn't have undergraduate loans. My parents helped and I lived at home part of the time. So I didn't have student loans. Okay. So now you're 26. You got $50,000 student loans. Yes. And then to around that time, I said, you know, I had $30,000 saved. Yep. Because although I was working and making by then about $50,000 a year as a teacher, I was really good at side hustling. I, I, I babysit. I tutored. And so I saved about $30,000. And I said, I think I want to buy something bought a condo, which was not necessarily bad. Right. So I stepped forward. It was right before the crash, the recession. I didn't talk in 2007, 2007, 2007. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So I bought it when it's all happening to me too. So I bought it in 2006, right? Yep. So I paid 220 for the condo. And I was like, no problem. I've got a good job. And then I thought, I want to learn how to like be rich. And I had a friend, air quotes, who I thought was rich. Because in your 20s, you think if someone has a nice car, yes, and apartment, they're rich. So I asked them, can you teach me to invest? Not my dad, but you can you teach you to invest? He says, sure, you look stupid. I mean, yeah. And so he told me to pull money for one, he said, do you have credit cards? I said, just this one that my dad told me to pay off every month, which I do. He's like, no, no, open up a couple more because you can pull money off a credit card. I didn't know. And I was like, sure. So I opened up the cards. And he's like, pull, I think I want to say I pulled off on $15,000. Yeah. And it's been such a red flag because I was at the bank. I can literally see the bankers facing, are you okay? So it kept me there for an hour, like grilling me and no red flag went off like Tiffany, they were worried because they're like, he's getting scammed. Well, obviously, yes. But I didn't know that. And so I, because I was like, we have a contract. Signed this contract with him. Of course, he promptly flew the coop. I did not know. Yes. Wait. So this was a guy who basically told you to take out credit cards, get a cash advance on the credit card. Give him the money and he was going to invest it for me. Oh, man. But at the time, I was like, but he's rich. He wouldn't steal from me. That's true. You know, like if somebody is like doing all the things and going out and they were in the hospital, you're like, Oh, they know how to make money. Well, he was, this is a serial, he, I didn't know he was a serial scammer, but that's why he had the money. Because he then took your $15,000 or $20,000 and then like bought more nice clothes and then went on to the next person. Wow. So I, but I didn't know at first because it even thinking about the terms, it was this $15,000 is going to yield you $2,000 a week for two years. I don't even know. I didn't really ask what it was going to be invested in. I was like, that sounds like a lot of money. I mean, so because I thought I'm about to be rich, I had these credit cards that still because I had such great credit. Yeah. I had these credit cards that I never thought about using credit cards before, but I'm like, so I'm going to be rich. Let me start using them. I ran up another $15,000. Oh my God. So I've got 30,000 in debt and it's probably at like 18, 20,000. I can only imagine. Yes. Yes. Holy so now I've got $50,000 in student loan debt, $220,000 a mortgage, 30,000 credit card debt, literally the year before debt free. And I was just happy as a client to do because you know, like, you're just a little fool. I'm about to be rich. And then a week or two in after tricking up all my money on my credit cards, reaching out to him, like, when can I expect my first payment? He was the worst kind of thief. I like just a clean thief, just steal my money and go. He instead would be like, you didn't get the deposit. I sent it. Call your bank. So he took me through. So now he's gaslighting you. I didn't have the word for it then. And I'd be like, bank, you know, did you get the money? And they're like, no. So he did that for a few months. And I maybe he was trying to like get away because he then moved. So maybe he was hoping, you know, that I wouldn't call the police until he could move away. Then he just stopped answering. Now, remember I was devastated like, wait, what do I do now? And so I was like, that's a right. Tiffany, you are really good saver, a really good budgeter. And so you're just going to, you know, babysit tutor and your job and you're just going to pay this day down. You're going to chip away at it. And you're not going to tell anybody. Yes. And then the recession hit and people were losing their jobs. And I said, oh, not me because I'm a teacher. And then they called us and said, actually you too. Three days before the new school year was set to begin. Oh, man. I was like, I don't understand because teachers don't, I mean, you're a, you need teachers. Yeah. But it was a nonprofit based school. And so they lost their funding because the corporations that gave us funding was the recession for them. Right. Right. So I'm like, yeah, but school is supposed to start in three days. And then in the summer, you don't get paid. So I was waiting on that first check to start this new plan. Oh my god. And I'm ever being like, what do I do now? Oh, all this money. I have a mortgage. And so I call my oldest sister Karen because you know, she's mom, junior. Yeah. How was I going to do? And she was like, honestly, Tiffany, what's the worst case scenario? And I was like, I don't know. I guess I lose my condo. Yeah. And she said, well, what would happen? Then I'm like, I guess I would have to tell mommy that he moved back home. And she's like, well, why wait? I think you should just do the thing now preemptively, you know? And I was like, so I didn't even tell my parents. I just brought like a lamp home. And then I brought like a blanket and then my mattress and my dad's like, are you back? I'm like, yeah. But he didn't know why I was back because he knew it was like a recession. And he didn't know, he didn't know that I lost my job. So he just, he just assumed I was trying to save money. Right. But I didn't want him to know all the other shenanigans surrounding. So did you lose the condo too? Yes. It was honestly, you know how some things you're like, it can't get worse. And it was like, hold my beer. Yes indeed it can. So I ended up losing my condo to foreclosure. And I tried to keep up with the mortgage until my retirement account was, was emptied. So now I have no retirement account. I lost my condo. I still owe all this money. And now I'm living back home with two Nigerian parents who think like I'm in 12th grade still because my then I was like 28, 29. And I they were like, well, I hope you know, you have a curfew. I'm like, a curfew. They're like, if you're home, that's fine. That's fine. That money. Yes. I had a sister who was still in high school. They're like, we don't want you coming in and out like her, her rules are your rules. I was like, we would. Yeah. And so I stayed there till I was 29 and on my 29th going on 30th birthday. I remember laying in my middle school bed because that was the bed available because the baby sister was in like my cool team like spot in the basement. And she was like, I don't care if you're home. Go live upstairs with mommy and daddy. Yeah. And I remember laying in my middle school bed to your streaming down the sides of my face. And I thought, I had more money the last time I lived in this bed when I was like 14 because I babysat and I walked dogs. And I was like, I had more money than I had maybe like three or four thousand dollars a day then that I do now at 30. And I was calling myself every loser. Like just talking to myself in a way that would never let anyone talk to me. And it was I was filled with such shame that has set me into a state of depression because I was like, I'm never going to get out of this. Never, ever, ever. So that's when people come to me. I'm like, I feel it deeply, you know? And so I just I stayed in that state of depression for a while until my best friend Linda who used to call me all the time was like, you never want to go out. You always sound so sad, which wrong. And I used to lie to her and say, I think it's fine. Everything's fine. And then one day she's like, everything's not fine Tiffany. Like what's happening? So I tried to lie to her again. And I just broke down into tears and I was like, Oh, I lost everything. And she was like, that's it. If you knew Linda, you'd be like, because that's Linda. And she was like, so I'm calling you from my mother's couch. She's like, girl, we're all broke. It's the perfect. And I said, I'm laughing because she's done a laughing. And it was like the first laugh I had in a long time. But she was like, have you called any of our other friends like, literally Tiffany, we are all broke. Everyone lost their job. Everyone's losing their homes. Like you're actually not special. I mean, it's sad, but you know, join the club basically. I wish you had been in my circle of friends then because I needed somebody to tell me that. Yes. You know, we were about to lose the house and it's hard. It's hard. Like really hard because you think you're the only one. I mean, the recession isn't your fault. Yeah. Is in your job isn't your fault. Yeah. The fact that you were targeted by something someone who had the intention of scamming you. That's not your fault. Yeah. And yet you tend to say to yourself, I did. Yes. Yes. So what did you do? So what one, I realized that so Linda allowed me to shed some of the shame. Yes. And shame shield solutions. It was like, say that again. I love that. Shame. I realized shield solutions. And when I was deep in the shame, I couldn't see all the lessons that I did know. That's different. You've always been a great budgeter. You've always been a great saver. You've always been a little side hustler. Those parts of you are still there. You you can't see them because you're so steeped in the shame. And shame honestly loves it when you're by yourself. Shame is like, don't tell anybody. It's just me and you. Like, stay here with me. The only way to really to ban a shame, I realized was to give voice to it. Was to say I did a thing and she was like, damn, because once she tells the one, then she's going to realize she's not the only one. Yes. And then we're not the only ones here. And then I have to leave. And so once I told Linda and Linda's reaction was like, is that it? Then I told someone else and they're like, okay. And then I realized, oh, I'm really not the only one. And that what I'm going through can actually be helpful to other people because I'm not coming to them as like Pollyanna perfect. Right. Because they're like, be too. So which is all whispering me to before you know, the whispers are loud and we're all like me too. Now let's get to work. Yes. And so what I did first informos is like I said, I took all my credit cards and put it on a balanced transfer card. Thankfully, before the foreclosure and things hit and my credit score would not allow me to do that. Okay. That was one, two, I was like, I cannot live here with my parents. I mean, I need like to go. So I then traded my parents house for my sisters. I'm couch, you know, which I know everyone is not able to do. Right. You know, but I was fortunate enough to be able to sleep on her couch for a while. And I started to look for side hustles that were aligned with either my degree or what I had already been employed as, you know, because at the time when you get let go as a teacher right before the new school year, it's not like a ton of teaching jobs lined up. Yeah. Because they have to have a teacher in a classroom already. Yes. So it's not like, oh, you know, like I'm an engineer and engineering jobs are always open. So it's not like they were like, oh, Tiffany, here's the job. So I'm like a while. I wasn't sure if I was going to go back to the classroom. But in the meantime, I'm like, I can tutor. I can babysit. And so I did a lot of that to try to get a little money together. And I did something where I had to give my permission to myself that not everyone's going to be paid. Tiffany, because you don't have it. And so I had to make a list, which I call my money list of all of my expenses and look at them and say, of this money list, which one are your health and safety bills, meaning the bills that you have to pay to maintain your health and your safety. And I was like, Verizon and then you girl. It's not true. But it's like, like I have asthma. I was like, you can leave that pump. Yes. And things that I must have. And so everyone else, I was scared. But when you have like, I always tell people, get yourself a Linda. So Linda used to sit next to me on the couch and we would open up mail together. And sometimes I'd be like, especially if you get like a pink or red envelope, you know, it's like, so then I wouldn't open that. I would slide it to Linda. She would open it and she would read it out loud. She'd like, okay, this one says, oh, this one's not so bad. You. Oh. So that helped a lot because I was never going to open, you know, those letters. Well, can we stop right there? We're going to get to the five categories of taking control of your financial life in just a minute. But can we just hover for a second on this moment of opening bills? Yeah. You have helped two million people. Mm-hmm. Talk to me about why it is so hard to open your bills or look at your bank statement. Because you there is an African saying that says, fear makes the wolf bigger than he is. Oh. And so fear is enhancing what's on the other side. It's rarely ever as big as you think. You know, you're like, I know on the other side of the dorm, the wolf is huge. He's gnarling. He's falling at the mouth. He's going to attack me. You know. And meanwhile, if you actually open the door, it's like a wolf puppy that you could have handled. But the longer you wait, that wolf will eventually grow up and become the thing you're afraid of. Mm-hmm. Thank you for saying that about paying your bills. And, you know, here's where I just want to make sure as you're listening to this conversation that you realize that this is just part of the story. Yeah. Because Tiffany, you then went from that unbelievably low moment to becoming one of the most popular financial educators and experts out there in today's world. Mm-hmm. And you've helped more than two million people who were in the position that you were in to then go on to save manage and pay off hundreds of millions of of dollars. I mean, your story alone is a testimonial to how absolutely anyone, regardless of where you are, can start today to take control of their finances. And in that regard, you have five major categories that you're going to help us master. And you have so many tips, so many tricks, so many different mindset flips. We all need to know this stuff. We all need to take control of our finances. And that's exactly what we're going to do when we come back. So don't you dare go anywhere. Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel. I'm so glad you're still here. I'm so glad that you're spending time listening to this because there's no doubt in my mind this episode is going to help you create a better life because you're learning from none other than Tiffany, Alice. Now, you've probably seen her on Netflix's Get Smarter with Money series. Maybe you've read her two New York Times bestselling books, but just know she has helped two million people who are just like you to save, manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. And now, you know what you and I are going to do? We're going to jump into tips and tricks that you need to know in five specific categories. And I'm so excited. I'm sitting here on this metaphorical walk shoulder to shoulder with you. I've already confessed all of the things I've done wrong. I can't wait to learn about this. And we're going to start with one of these topics that I hate when it comes to money. This is number one of the five things you're going to help us master Tiffany. And it is budget. Yes. It's in your name. Bunch of these stuff. I hate that word budget. I feel like budget is a punishment. It's a diet. I don't want to be on a budget, Tiffany. What do I need to do? Why do we need a budget? And let's talk budget. So I want you to think about a budget the way what I say is like how you think about like your mom, right? So you've got three kids, right? Yeah. And so if like say your son's like, oh, when he's little, you know, mom, can I have dessert? You'd say yes after you have dinner. Or your daughter says, mom, can I go outside to play? Yes. When you do your homework, you know, or, you know, mom, can we go on vacation? Yes. If we lower this, this, you know, the light bill. So your budget is like your mom. She's there to say yes. When if after. So it's really a say yes plan, but one that's safely implemented so you can maintain the thing that you want, right? So you could call a money list. That's what I usually start with because people hate that name. I like the name money list. What does a money list mean? Okay. I love this reframe because I hear the word budget and I hear no in restriction. And you're saying no, that the budget is how you say yes to what's important. Yes. That it's not there actually to tell me no. It's there to find the yes in the safest way possible. So for somebody hearing you say that and they're like, but I've never made a budget or I've never stopped the one. I don't know what my budget should be like where do you begin? Step one is to write everything down just the words of what do I spend money on? Don't think about the month just in general. So it's like, oh, the kids, oh, credit card, oh, grooming going out. Like just I want you to just write the words. Don't think about the money just words. Okay. So that's first part. Step one. Yes. Then step two is now you say these words on my money list, how much am I spending approximately monthly? Some stuff you'll know like your mortgage or your rent. Some stuff you might not be sure. Go pull out your bank statement and see on average the last few months. How much you're spending on groceries or eating out or groom or electricity or water. Yes. Or any of those things that you don't even really think, oh, my God, I got that bill. Exactly. So then that's within a month frame on average, right? So that's step two. Okay. Then step three is to write down how much you make on average every month from all of your areas. So maybe you get Alamone, maybe you get child support, maybe you have a job, whatever that is, how much are you making monthly? Then you add up step four, you add up how much you're spending monthly and subtract it from how much you're making monthly. I call that the tears and tissue step because usually people get in there like, can I have a tissue? And should you do this with a friend? Yes, we call Linda. Yes, get yourself a Linda. So literally. So when I used to do one on ones, we would do all of that and people would be like, okay, and then I would literally just grab a box of tissues and just put it here because I'm like, it's about the water money. It's not. They added up. I remember it was a nurse all never forget. I'll call her B and I came to her house and it was beautiful condo. And so we did that step and she started crying and then I started crying because baby, I'm a baby. And she was just like, I didn't realize how much over I was spending. And she said, as a matter of fact, I can't even afford the air conditioning. So I'm going to turn it off. And I was like, yes. So we sat with the fan on because she just turned on the air conditioning because I was coming over. So I was like, turn off the AC. A fan is fine. That tears and tissue step allows you to see what do you need to do now? And so let's say you've done that, right? And you've made the money list and you see what's coming in and what's coming out here, like face with the reality. Yeah. Tears and tissues. Yes. And you see that you are outspending every month. What's actually coming in? What is the next step? The next step is I want you to categorize your expenses before you get to slash and dash, you know, because that's what people want to do. I won't need that. I won't. Yeah. I'm never going to eat again. I'm like categorize your expenses into three categories. One, I want you to write a B next to all the bills on your list. So bills are if you don't pay it, someone's going to come knocking on your door and say, where's my money? Right? Yeah. So put a B next to all those things and give me an example. I know that sounds like a basic question, but is your mortgage available? Yes. Mortgage is a bill rent, car notes, student loans. So if you don't pay, you're likely to be sued. Think about that. Gotcha. Like when you were like standing at Walmart or before and you're like, yeah, like 10% off this. And then you're like, Oh, wait, that's a credit card. Yes. That's a bill. So a B next to all your bills. Okay. And then and those are really like fixed expenses. So that way you understand, right? And then I want you to put a U in front of any beam that fluctuates based upon your usage. Oh, I love that. So I call these like the use stands for usage or utility. So your student loan does not have a U, your mortgage or rent does not have a U, but the water, water electricity. So you're usage, yes, the data on your phone. Yes. And so it's important to separate those two because I want you to you'll see that I want you to understand the level of control you have on these expenses. And whatever is not a B or UB, everything else is a C, C stands for cash or choice, meaning that you have full choice of how you spend here. So grooming might be leftover groceries might be left over much eating out with friends. Yes. And so entertainment. And so now before you get to slashing, I want you to ask yourself, where's most of your money going for many people, mostly your money might be going to the bees and UBs. But for some people is actually all the Cs. So then I then we have to identify and you have a don't make enough issue or spend too much issue. And so if most of your money is going to the bees and UBs, you might not make enough. So it's not about slashing because it's your bills, you know, but if most of your money is going to your Cs, your choices and your cash expenses, then you probably have a spend too much issue. So now we need to slash, you know, because entertainment and grocery and all those things for your money is going because what I find is that frugal people want to get more frugal when things are tied. I'm like, that's not the answer. Right. You know, that instead, I want you to put your energy turn learning how to earn more if all of your money is going to your bills because we're cutting the mortgage. What are we cutting? That's true. You know, one of the things that I worry about and I'd be curious to hear your perspective is that you and I both had the experience of being in college and it's that opening week and literally at the opening registration fair, there were banks with credit card tables to get your Snickers bar when you sign up for one and then it's free money. But I worry a lot about the fact that in today's world, particularly for people who are in their 20s and 30s, that social media has become like shopping with a click. And you and I had to leave our house to go spend money back in the day. And when I think about TikTok or Instagram, every other fricking suggested thing has a shop now. But and stuff gets sent to your house. And have you seen a big increase because you've been doing this for a while in people in the spending category that spending has gotten so easy because of social media, it's always in your face. You always see what you're missing out on. There's an influencer that has the product for free who's like, this changed my life. Oh, quick, quick, it's 11 30 at night. So do you see a spike in this? Absolutely. Overconsumption is the new way. We all have so much that we don't need. I mean, even I sometimes I'm like, Tiffany, you do not need like another like, you don't even vacuum. But that one is so cool. You know, and I'm like, this is influencer who I follow, who I love her because so aesthetically, please say yes. But you You know, the ones that were like everything in the kitchen is instead of pleasing. - Yes, this is these Amazon stops. - Yeah, I can click through to my Amazon thing. - So I got the filter free, but I'm gonna make money on you buying it. - A container for the container. It's like, well, who wants zero out of a cereal box? We want to eat the out of a aesthetically pleasing glass container. - Yes. - Like, 20 to 20 please, you don't. - Yes. - You know, so it is really hard. So that's why I don't believe in leaning so heavily on discipline when it comes to financial, like stick to it at this, you know. - What do you believe in? - That I believe automation, automation, automation, that's the new discipline. That if we can put systems and automations in place, it will help to safeguard you because you're human. - Yeah. - So we're not here to fight against your humaneness, right? You know, I'm like for budgeting, for example, I do this thing where I call it budget without a budget. You go to HR, you say, hey, HR or pay room, I want to split my money before I get my money. And so what that looks like is, is that in most places can do this, 'cause I'm not a huge company and we're at capable. There are four accounts, two checking, two savings. - Wait, so everybody needs four accounts. - Ideally, give or take, I mean, it depends on where you are, but this is the ideal, two checking, two savings. So checking one is kind of like your spending account. This is attached to your debit card, right? - So most people have this account, but everything just gets dumped there. - Yes. - You know, so that's the account, you keep it. The second account is a checking account, which is your bills account. And so I want you to separate your bill money from your spending money. And does it cost money to have two different checking accounts with your bank? - Well, the good thing is, if you have direct deposit until those most banks will wave that fee. So that's why you're gonna do it from, like, I have payroll direct deposit into those accounts. - Oh, so you at your company level. - Yes. - You basically say, X percent of my paycheck is gonna go into checking account, number one, which is where my bills are. - And are spending. And then the other percentage, do you have a particular percentage in mind? - Well, the good thing is people ask me all the time, I'm like, well, we don't have to guess. Money list is right there saying, hello, we know how much you need to put in here. - Be kind of embarrassing to walk into HR and be like, um, could you put $50 in checking account one? - And $10. - And $10. - But that's, it's a form, so you don't have to tell all your bills. - Okay. - You know, but still, you can see how that then creates an automation that helps you stay in the lane. So the key is with that checking account, the second one, you are gonna call the bank and say, I do not want a debit card. - I did not know that you could just opt out of a debit card, you can. - But what do I do if I need cash? - Because you have your spending account. Because why are you swiping when you're bill money? - 'Cause I don't need a debit card. - Not for the bills account. - For the bills account. - Yes. - I've never had two checking accounts. - Yes, okay. - I'm shitting your thinking. My freaking money goes right into that thing. - Yes. - So if you, that way, it keeps your bills account. This is why I say you don't need as much discipline. It's just that. - I am actually gonna do this. - Yeah. - I think this is so empowering because I have had such the philosophy of just put your head down. (laughing) - Work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. And as long as there's balance in there, we're okay. - Yeah. So I like to separate it because I'm like, I know that when I'm at Target, 'cause it's my favorite, I'm swiping, that I know one thing, I'm not swiping my bill money because this debit card is not attached to my bills account. I put the money into the bills account. And if you have enough, you can automate your bills. And if not, you could certainly manually pay them. You could just say every two weeks, I'll sit down and manually pay my bills. - I love this advice. You're so good at what you do. (laughing) - No wonder you've helped millions and millions and millions of people. - And remember the other two savings, I want you to put those savings account, not at your regular brick and mortar bank, because they're gonna pay you 0.00000. - Okay, so where do we put our savings? And why do we need two savings accounts? - Well, I like, again, because I want you to separate so you can see. - Okay. - You know, and so this is like that kind of like what I said, automate, automate, automate, you don't have to be as disciplined. - Right. - So savings won at a high yield savings account. Typically these are online only banks, you know? They pay right now currently, may 4% a little bit more. And so you're gonna have one. - Now when you said online only bank, I had a visceral reaction. - Okay. - Because I immediately thought about the dude that scammed you out of money for some reason. - Oh, you know, I'm like, how do you know that an online bank is a reputable bank to put your money in? Because that's the ICN short. - FDICN short. - Yeah, so how would you know that? 'Cause everybody can copy that little icon? - So no, 'cause that would be against, I mean, they wanna go to like under the jail by federal government. - Okay. - So you could, honestly, a Google search, there are like, - We're also gonna link everybody. You know our resources are robust. And today there will be a lot of information from the Bajanista. - Yes. - And Tiffany will have stuff so that you can go to her resources and understand what's reputable, what's not. - So I list the budget. So with both of my books, get go money and made whole, I list some of the banks that I like. - You know what else I love about this approach? 'Cause you mentioned Target and we have a huge global audience. So just think about your favorite even place where you're gonna pick up your prescriptions or your local kind of pharmacy type store. When I walk in there, it's a ziff. I have walked onto a game show. This was even when I had no freaking money. And it's like, you walk through the doors and I'm like, "Oh, I feel like I need some hair from a band things." And, you know, I need those little cotton things. - Yes. - I have that shit in my drawers. - Yes. - Like I don't know why I, there's something about the psychology of that. So in your model, when you do your money list and the B's and the U's, and I walk in there and I don't have a debit card. I've only got the debit card for what I can spend. - Yes. 'Cause all your money is literally, "World away someplace else." You have a savings account for emergencies. You have a savings account for goals. I want to buy cows, I want to buy a car, I want to invest in the market. We're gonna separate them because you don't want to spend your emergencies on goals. That's your emergency account is like your seatbelt. You know, like your safety belt. - Yep. - And so that's why you have the two savings and you let it earn interest. So if you have those four accounts, you use your money list to figure out how much money you want to place into those four accounts. Then all you have to worry about is, especially if everything's automated, the money lands, it splits before you get it. Bills pay themselves, savings is safe. And when I go swiping, it's not my savings, it's not my emergency savings, it's not my bill money. So I can rest assured, without having to be so disciplined, 'cause I just set it up one time. And so it's just one of my favorite ways to budget without budgeting like the hardcore, you know, my journal and a diary and I do it all that. - Yes. - Yes, you do it once, set it and forget it. - And now it's aligned with what you want. Do you have a guideline in terms of when somebody's making their money list, we got the Bs, we got the U's, we got the Cs, we've now got our four different bank accounts, the two checking, the two savings. So if you follow all this advice and you kinda look at what it costs for you to pay for your life, all of the stuff that's going out and all of these categories you've just taught us about, what do you think the percentage should be if you look at the income coming in, like what percentage is your day-to-day expenses? - So I would say ideally, ideally, ideally, if you can live off of 70% of your income, that's ideal, like you might be at 99, that's okay. But this is what you're working toward. - Okay. - No more than 70%. Obviously you make more, it might be even lower. I think at this point, I might live off of 20 or 30%. At one point, I was living off of 200%. But 70%. - Right, meaning you were in. - Yes, meaning you were spending more. - Yes, yes. - So this is not saying this is just like, I'm working toward this. This is what your idea is. So 70%, so that would be what's in your spending account and what's in your bills account. That would equate for 70% because that's living off of money. - I love that you just offered up though, this hope, because what you just said to somebody, who is in the place that you and I have both been in, which is your life costs way more than you make. And you are also dealing with a mountain of debt that there is hope for you. So if you make this money list, which is step one, your bees, your use, your seas, and you then look at it and you're like, oh, I'm screwed. What Tiffany is saying to you is that the goal is to move from a negative position to a position where 70% of what's coming in covers your life. And the other 30% goes to savings and investing and, awesome. I cannot wait to go home and make a money list. Now, there are four other topics, Tiffany, that you're gonna help us master. And so I don't want you listening to us to go anywhere. You're about to learn her amazing tips to increase your credit score. You're learning about something that Tiffany calls dream shaping, which is a critical part of you creating plan and finding hope and enthusiasm to take all these advice and apply it. And what I love about Tiffany's approach, and I'm sure you're loving it too, is you're gonna hear her say, you don't need discipline. You just need to understand these tricks. Stay with us. (upbeat music) Welcome back. It's your friend Mal. We are so glad that you're here. And by me, I mean me and Tiffany Elite Che. She's also known as the budget Nista. You're falling in love with her as you listen to her. She's been featured on Netflix. She's a New York Times best seller. And more importantly, her genius and you're experiencing it right now. She's helped two million people save, manage and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. And here she is. showing up here for you, giving you relatable world-class strategies in the five key areas that you need to understand when it comes to taking control of money. So you and I have covered budget with Tiffany. There are four more to go. And up next, debt. What do you do when you go through the money list and what you see is a lot of debt? What are the steps? Well, for debt, you have to, that's another kind of like list. So I just call it just honestly like the debt list. We have to just get a picture like what's happening here? Yes. Who do you owe? This is what's going to go on your debt list. Who do you owe? How much do you owe? When does it do? What's the interest rate? What's the status? I know. This is what you want to have your bestie in bed. Here we go. I figured out my friend Jodie. Jodie, pull up her chair. Let's go. Right. Exactly. So yeah, so you because you have to get a pay. This is actually sometimes you can be a little harder than the money list. I would think so. Because I was I'm listening to you. I'm thinking to myself. I haven't even done this for myself. Yeah. To see like who do I owe? Yeah. Like what is my mortgage right now? And how many more years is it going to be? And what are like, what is the car loan that I have? And how many more years is it? And what is the interest rate? Yeah. So just knowing like what those things are. And like I said, don't do it alone. You can literally have a party. It could be like, you know, we're not spending money. There's no ice cream. There's nothing. It's a potluck. You know, it's like you can just be like, where you and a group of friends to sit down and say, we're going to do our debt list. You know? And so just knowing where you are. So now you just start to prioritize who's getting paid and when. So I have a few methods that I really like. Let's talk about one. This is snowball method. Okay. And so this is when you paid the lowest balance debt first. So you're going to look at all of your debt and light it up from lowest balance at you oh, okay. Right? Like and then to the highest like debt that you owe. Okay. And if you're someone who is like emotionally charged by your debt and need you to have early success. Yes. You're going to pay the minimum to everybody else, but that lowest bill is going to get the bulk of the money that you have available. And you're going to know what that is. This is why that money list is so important. Right. We're not going to get the money. Let's look at the money list. Right. How are you making a little more right now? Are you able to spend a little less that money that you're able to squeeze from your budget? It's going to go to that lowest debt. So let's just say you owe $200 to granny. Yeah. You know? And you're giving her a hundred bucks a month. Right. So now it's like, okay, that hundred bucks a month now rolls over like a snowball. Yes. Now that that's paid to grand. And now we go to the next. Yes. The next that gets its minimum, which it was already getting, but it gets that lowest that's minimum that the first one and that extra money from your from your your money list. So now all of a sudden it's getting like three payments in one. So you're cooking with Greece now. You know? And when that's paid off, you roll over that full amount to the third. And what's so great is as the snowball rose down the hill, it collects no minimums along the way. So by the time you get to the biggest debt, you have the most amount of money, but it didn't actually take any additional money out of your budget because you've collected minimums that you were already paying. Oh, so I'm going to try to translate that. So if your credit card bill has a minimum of $50. Yes. And you've just been paying the 50 and paying the 50. That means you're not really chipping away at the at the balance. So as you use this method and you get the lowest paid off, you don't have to pay that $50 anymore. Yeah. And then you go to the next one. Well, you take that 50 from that goes to the next one. Got you. And so you've accumulated all these 50s. Yeah. By the time you get to the big one, you might have 200 extra dollars in the past. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So that actually hurt your you're not coming out of pocket anymore because you've been paying all these minimums. Yes. You know. And so it's a great way for people who need that early success and don't want to tackle the big bill right away. Amazing. So that's the snowball method. The avalanche method is when you're like, forget all that. I'm logical. I want to attack the debt with the highest interest rate, the most expensive debt first because interest rate is the fee you pay for what you own. Okay. So the more you owe, the more the interest rate is going to affect what you have to pay. So you're going to line your debt up from the highest interest rate. Yeah. To the lowest interest rate first. And you're going to attack highest interest rate that first. Okay. So there's snowball avalanche and I call this the tsunami method. Is this it for people who really get emotionally overwhelmed and you line up your debt by how it affects you emotionally? Oh, you know, because let's honor the fact that some of us really need to navigate from that place. Like which debt is causing you the most stress? It's like the tsunami is coming over you and it's like I have to pay my grandmother back because I feel so bad. And then next it's really my mortgage. And then next it's this bike that I bought and then you see what I mean. So with that method, you're lining up the debt from most stressful to least stressful and paying it off in that order. But either way, you're collecting the minimums amount along the way. You pay off the debt, you roll over their full payment to the next one. Pay off that debt, roll over all those payments to the next one. So that still stays the same. It's just the order that it depends on like what you need in order to be successful. We must have similar grammars because I wouldn't want to have to face my grandmother with her. They're knocking on the door complaining again at the dinner table. So you have this concept that I absolutely love that was budget that we've talked about. We've now covered debt. The third concept that you talk about is saving. Yes. How do you save? Especially if you don't feel like you have money to save. Because you are just making the ends meet or not even. And sometimes you can't. I know people don't want to say that, but I'm like, I remember when I was like, I had a savings account because it was free, but that account was like, hello. Is it me? I'm like, what? It didn't have anything on it. I mean, because that's life sometimes. Yeah. And I just remember, but I opened it because sometimes you do a thing not for where you are currently before where you want to go. There you go. And so I opened up the savings account because they're typically free. And I said, one day, I'll be able to put something into you. And so for the first year or so, when I was paying down all that credit card debt and like making little money here and then the budget needs to be starting to do a little better. And I was like, I remember I was able to say $5 a month. And I put it in there not for the five, but five was proof if I could do five, one day I'll do 10. I could do 10, one, one day I'll do 100. I could do 100, one day I'll do 1000. And so it was a placeholder for that one day. Yeah. But so in the beginning, it's okay to acknowledge that you might have these four accounts and those two stay empty for a while. Yeah. Because there's not enough money. I love that you said that because I can absolutely remember years of my life where there was a savings account attached to my checking account. I could not afford to put anything in there literally be like 27 cents. And I made friends with the tellers. And so when you kind of get that they penalize you forever. And I'll just wave that for you. No problem. But just seeing that still someday. Yes. Someday. Someday. I will get it in there someday. Dreamscaping. Okay. Let's talk about dreams. What is dreamscaping? So this is where I totally made up as preschool teachers are apt to do. And I just thought like you know landscaping, this is when you design the outside of your home to be beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. And so I'm like, well, why can't we do that with our dreams? Why can I? Dreamscaping means that like I think of the most beautiful, aesthetically pleasing, big, expansive life that I want to live. And I was a big daydreamer when I was a kid. So I got like I was a kid in class talks too much and daydreams. And so I but I love daydreamy because it allows me to like really like go into the future and say this is what life is going to look like for me. Live there for a little bit and then bring back bring back that feeling here and it says, okay, this is what you need to do for that to be life. Okay. And so with dreamscaping, I identify a time in the future that what I want to see. So maybe it's the December 31st version of yourself this year. Yes. Maybe it's you five years from now, 10 years from now, whatever that is. And then I ask myself holistically, how do I want life to go? Not financially, holistically. Like how long do I want my hair to be? Like what do I want to live? What do I want to drive? You know, what kind of foods am I into? Like I just imagining my full complete life. Where have I traveled to? Yeah. You know, on that kind of thing. And so that's the second part of dreamscaping is I like really dreaming like your full life. Yeah. Then the third part is to find a guide asking for help. So if there's someone who there's part of your dream that they're living it, you know, maybe they're on social media and you found their social media. You know, do they do podcast interviews? Do they have a book that's come out? Do you know them personally? Like don't call this alone. Why? You know, the fastest way from where you are to where you want to be usually is through someone else. Right. So I'm literally studying like, oh, I love the way Mel does that. Okay. So I'm just going to read all the things you've written and watch all your shows and and listen to all your podcasts. So I can get a guide from you about what does that look like? And then fourth, I create a plan based upon what I've learned about this is where I want to be. This is what I've learned from Mel. How she got there. Let me create a plan that's focused but flexible because I'm not you. So it's like, you know, there's like this framework there. Yeah. But a lot of flexibility in there. Like, oh, well, Mel did this, but I'm going to do it like this, but right, you know, that's why I create this plan. But as I worked the plan, the last and to me, one of the most important things is and find community that like, it's so big for me. I started the bunch of these because if not for Linda, where would I be? You know, that like, I don't care if community is one person or a thousand people or two million people find community and work the plan within that community. So you can have accountability. You can have people to cheer you on in a place to vent and say you're scared, you know, and to see yourself and other people. So if you do those five things, that's the five steps to dream escaping. Well, the other piece that's powerful about that is when I look at all of your advice, it is empowering you to take your emotions out of it and to align the actions that you're taking with the kind of person that you want to become. I love that. You're everything to yourself. So this is something I remember I learned in therapy when I was talking to my therapist. She said, like, I've never smoked. I have asthma. So I'm like, I do know I want to take myself out of here. And so she said Tiffany, do you consider yourself like a non-smoker? And I was like, no, because it doesn't even resonate because I just don't smoke. I'm not, that's just not part of like who I am. So I don't even associate smoke or non-smoker. I just never anybody who smoked because I align with I am who I say I am. And so like that should be the aim for all that we do. So it's not like, oh, am I an overspender or underspender? It's like, well, no, you're just you aligned with this is I show up. I am who I say I am that my goal is to be the person who I'm not worried about over understanding. I spend in a way that's aligned with the way that the life that I want to live. Do you see what I mean? Not exactly. I do. And I feel very empowered as I'm listening to you about going and creating a money list and going and doing the debt list and just really getting a very clear picture for myself, for myself so that I can decide in the dreamscape model. Well, what is the story I tell about myself to myself in this category? Yes. Because clearly, if I wanted to get good with money, then I've got the expert right here and I follow your steps and I can easily learn it. And so can you as you're listening to this, you have this concept that I freaking love about paying yourself first. What does that mean? So that means I want you to ask yourself four questions before you spend any money. And those questions are do I need it? No. Do I love it? Yes. Do I like it? Do I want it? So need it? Love it? Like it? Want it? And so they show you that like needs are most important. Okay. Then your loves, then your likes, then your wants. And so when I'm spending money, those are the quadrants. I try to stay on the half of needs and loves. So a need is something you must have in order to be okay. So bills. Yep. Those UBs and Bs. Those are your needs. Yes. You know. Right? Now loves are different. Loves are something that is going to bring you joy over a year from now. You know? And so that's different for everyone. For some people, it is that haircut. For some people, it is, you know, that amazing dinner. Yeah. For some people, it's travel. For some people, it is that dress. So there's no judgment. They are just a year from now. Well, this thing still generate joy for me. So deep joy are the things that are the things that we love. And then likes, which is next on temporary joy. So that's something about six months from now. Yeah. I go still cute. I remember. Yeah. You know, but a year later, you might be like, wait, where is that shirt that I had? You know? Yeah. And then wants are literally the opposite. Just Instagram. Yes. That's the shop now on Instagram. Yes. So when you are spending money, I'm not here to tell myself, no. So I, for example, this is a, what I always travel, but this year in particular, I really want to go, I've never been to Johannesburg and I want to go. Oh, yeah. And there's this like really cute travel group. There's like 15 women and it's like Johannesburg, Namibia, Botswana. It's incredible. Right. And so it's not a little bit of money, obviously, as you can imagine. And so when I was deciding whether or not to do it, I said, Tiffany, is this a need? No. It's not food shelter, clothing order. Is this a love? Will you remember this trip a year from now? I said apps of freaking Lutely. And then of course, you look at your budget, can it allow it? You know? So what that means is that if I don't have enough of that like your wants, so what? Right? Because if I get another stinkin T-shirt target, like what are we talking about? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I think everybody, even when you're struggling, yes. Even when you're struggling, I think most of us can look around whatever room we're sitting in in our apartment and be like, I have too much stuff. Yes. Why am I? And I do think that there is this rise in shopping and consumerism, because you don't have to leave your house. Yes. You do not need to leave your house. They pull up and drop it on your doorstep. Yes. And you just constantly, it's like pulling the, if you're watching this on YouTube, you see me doing it. But it's like you're at a slot machine. Yes. Pull the lever. Pull. But if you really want to pay yourself first, then you try as much as possible to stay in the much in the need and the love category. I love that because that means your money is meaningfully spent. You know what I mean? Yes. Like meaningfully. So I'm not here to tell myself no, I'm here to say as yes as much as possible to my needs and my love. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. What is your biggest hot take on saving money? My biggest hot take on saving money is there is a cap for how much you should save. Like you can actually over save. What? Yes. I've been an over saver where I had so much money saved because there is a point where it's like no more than a year's worth of emergency savings is necessary for savings. I mean, I want to know. You're not trying about investing. You're just trying about saving. Yes. Okay. Great. So like, you know, like depending so my mom was a nurse before she retired. Yep. Right. So three months was enough for her. You know, my sister's an engineer, six months is fine. Me as an entrepreneur, I feel more comfortable with the year, but anything above that, you're actually losing money because savings is not really growing. Oh, you know, it should be put to work. The purpose of I want people because people get mad about savings. They're like, I want all my money to be put to work. But every belt is not meant to be a fashion Gucci belt. Some belts are safety belts. It's not for fashion. That's right. Your car. Yes. Has a buckle belt in it. I'm sorry. It's not modified. It's not monogrammed. Yes. Right. The purpose. The intention is for safety and that money, although it'd be nice if savings grew astronomically, that money is just for safety. I love that. And then the excess that no more than a year should be put to work. Absolutely. For some people, the excess is anything above three months. Some people anything above six months. I say no more than a year. So too much savings is actually detrimental. There's like the law of diminishing returns. One glass of water. So good for you. Four glasses. So great. 40. You're going to drown. Yes. I that is that's the first time I've ever heard that. And I think for those of us that has lost your money or nearly lost your house or like you don't ever want to be in that. And so I probably have too much in terms of savings, but it's just sitting somewhere where the market can't affect it. The housing recession can't affect it. But it's not doing it. And money that's not being put to work is losing. Okay. So you're calling me a loser? No. Let's say so we've covered budget debt savings. And now let's talk about number four, which is credit. Okay. And this is a hugely popular topic with your audience with everybody. How can you improve your credit score? So credit, if your issue is credit, congratulations is the easiest thing to fix. So I want you to just lose stock. Because credit is the thing that people worry about the most. Yes. But quite honestly, it's the easiest to fix credit is tips and tricks. Oh my god. That's a tips and tricks. Tips and tricks. Tips and tricks. So first thing to understand that there are there are multiple categories that affect your credit. It's 35% of your score is what your payment history is. Okay. Right. And so like do pay the people on time. Do you play at least a minimum? Well then 35% of your score. You're good. 30% of your score is going to be amount owed. So get your payments down. Everybody that would be the debt list. Yes. So if those two things alone is 65% of your score. So if you just like concentrate on getting your debt down and if you automate that bills account, do you see how it all comes together? Yes, I do. Yeah. So automate that bills account. 65% of your scores being positively affected. There's other things to consider with your score is they look at length of credit history. Right. So length of credit history is just how long have you had access to credit and have you been using it? Now this is important because think about like so you said your your your son is 17. Is he driving? He's eight. Yes. Yes. Yes, he's driving. Right. So if your son said, oh, mom, can I borrow your car? I've never been in accident. You know what? Interesting because you just started right. And then let's just say like you have these siblings. Do I? Yeah. Yeah. I have a brother. So your brother says, sis, can I borrow your car? Yeah, I've never been in accident. So you've got two drivers. Never been in accident. One just got their license. One that's had it for years. It's not the same. It's the same for credit. Length of credit history says like, yes. So you might not have any bad marks on your credit, but you're so inexperienced, you are a bad driver because you have not driven much. Got it. Yeah. So they call it a thin file when you have hardly any credit. So no credit is bad credit. Got you. Just like no driving experience is a bad driver. Gotcha. So you have three ways that you can boost your credit score pretty quickly, like even up to 100 points. What I yeah. So my favorite way is I learned this from like a debt lawyer. Okay. He was like, because after I lost everything in my credit score, yes. I learned embarrassing way. Like I was teaching like classes because I told you I was like, if I did my way and I'm going to teach yes, my credit score at one point was 802. So in class, I was showing people how to look up your credit score. So I look up mind thinking clearly it's still 800. It was a 530. A room full of people. I'm looking at that. And I was like, luckily it said like T. Elite T and I have a system named Tracy. I was like, I locked it to Tracy's account. Let me just. Can you imagine? I was like, wait, is that a five? And then I was like, anyway, let's talk about it. I had no idea because I'd not check. So I was like, how do I raise this five 30 because I had an active foreclosure because I lost my house. Yes. I had that credit card debt that was just mounting. Yes, from the scam. Oh my gosh. So one of the best things to do is he said pay off a credit card in full every month. But like, so then I realized like, so he said there's something about paying off a debt in full that makes the credit bureau say, yay. So think about your credit score as your GPA, your grade point average. Okay. It's an average of your choices, your financial choices. Yeah. Think about the credit bureaus as your teachers. They give you your grade. Yeah. And think about the credit report as your transcript. It has your grade. But like all the other like classes and things like the real in depth of what you've done with your life. You're financial. Right. And so if you want the credit bureaus to teachers to give you like really great grades, they love to see an A every month. An A plus and credit is when you pay off a debt in full. And so you're talking like if we were to go the method and look at and you line up all your your debt and you look at the one with the lowest balance. Mm-hmm. Paying off that lowest balance is like, "Boop, yep, just put it in bed, look, look, it'll give you A." But just that A that one month. But we want to get an A every month. Okay. And so I like to get a credit card with zero balance or pay one off to zero balance. And then I look at my money list and say, what is my least expensive reoccurring payment? Is it Spotify? Is it Apple? Is it Netflix? No more than 25 bucks a month. And I say, "Hey, Apple, it's forever, whatever." Actually don't go to the bills account. Like you used to, I'm going to put a credit card in the middle of that equation. And you're going to pay that every month. Yes. So they're seeing A it off to zero. Yes. And every month, like the credit bills are like, "Hey, hey, hey." And I'm like, so at the end of, I was like, "Hey, hey, hey." Now I'm just song because Spotify too. Oh my God, I love that. So what I did because I was like, at the time I had these two cards, I did it with two cards. And so I went from a 530 to a 750 in one year, which doesn't sound like a like, because you can raise your credit for that. Sounds like a lot. Especially with an active foreclosure. Yes. And especially if you're in that zone where you're like, "I'm trying to put groceries on the table. How the hell am I going to raise my credit score?" I got to get to the store and buy some chicken. I'm not worried about all this other stuff, but you're basically saying any of those odd, you can automate the payment this way and have it serve like this double duty for you. There you go. If you do that, that was tremendous. I love that. Wow. Yes. Wow. Wow. Any other tips in terms of boost and credit score? So another tip is just to like, remember I said, 30% or 35% of your score is payment history. Yes. And so one of the best ways to do it is to just automate your bills from your bills account. Because you don't, that's the payment history. And so this is only though, because not everyone makes enough to cover their bills. This is for those people who make enough to cover your monthly bills. But it seems like so little, but not being late and just having them automatically paid, 35% of your score, which is huge. So if you do those things, like I said, credit is tips and tricks. It's actually not discipline. Oh, I love that. All right, let's talk about the fifth thing we need to master, which is how do you increase your money? So best way to start to increase your money is where you currently work. You know, okay. I would be looking like, am I paid? Like, let's look at what Glassdoor is talking about. Yeah. But you have to keep in mind not just your role, but the size of company. I promise you the janitor at Facebook is making more than the janitor at your local high school. Yes. You know, so it's a one, understanding the size of your company, but also, you know, many women, especially, are underpaid. And so before you ask for money, create something that my sister calls the go me file. That's your brag book. And so whenever she does something at the company, she writes it down. She says, "Go me." And so ideally, the go me things on your list are ways that you made the company money. Yes. You can quantify or save the company money. Yes. She says, "If you can't quantify it, figure out how to quantify it." Yes. You know? And then that way, when you go and you sit with your manager, boss or whatever, and you're having your review, you're not actually asking for a raise. You're asking for a correction to salary, because I made the company $100,000 last year. Right. I saved the company $30,000, so when I'm asking for this 2% raise, I mean, you know, I'm undervaluing myself. Look at the value that I bring. Yes. And so starting there is a place. And this is really backed up by research. So especially for women and any person of color, that the number one thing that will determine your ability to make more money or your ability to get a promotion is whether or not you make your contributions known. Yes. And so that go me list is a critical habit, because you're going to forget. Yes. And without that, you don't have the ability to really explain why, because I agree with you. Like, there is a lot of advice out there. Like ask your value, look at Glassdoor, but if you can't make the case. Yes. You're just making a threat. Yes. That's it. I call it, this is what I tell my mentees. I call it illustrating your Oprah. And so, I like Oprah, right, is a type of like, if right now in this room, we said, hey, if we could gather, you know, $300,000, Oprah is going to showcase all of us on her social media, open a parola dex and help negotiate our deals. Like, we would gather that $300,000 so quickly, because we know that it's worth $100,000,000, right? Because we know the value of Oprah is so obvious that it's just illustrated in the way she navigates. And so, whenever I'm not getting paid as much as I want as a speaker or someone trying to undervalue me, I ask myself, have you illustrated your Oprah? Have you illustrated value in such an obvious, overwhelming way that they're like, oh, we will find the money? Yes. And I think this is so important that we just take a minute and highlight this. Because the tendency is to be angry at the employer or the client that you're offering a service for that they didn't see my value. No, no, no, no, no, no, you didn't see your value. You didn't actually make the case. And you did not present yourself or the value you provide. Yeah. If you are somebody that offers a service, you are a coach, you're a real estate agent. You cut hair, you walk dogs. That is a business. Do not give that shit to your friends for free. Because you will start to resent them. For them wanting to, for, you know, them kind of taking you for granted. No, you're taking yourself for granted. Yeah. So people are going to ask, people are going to assume you cannot do that with yourself. But this is about you understanding your value. So in terms of somebody who's listening and they're like, okay, I can't quit my job. Yeah. I advocated and they gave me a small amount, but it's not enough. You also talk a lot about, well, what else can you do? Is there side hustles? You mentioned it as part of your story. This has always been part of my story on the side as I was climbing out of debt. I will do anything well within limits. So what are some of your favorite side hustles that you recommend for folks that are like, okay, I don't need to go out on the weekend. And if I'm working my side hustle, I'm both making money and I'm not consuming and spending more money. So what are some side hustles that you like? Well, one, I say before, like, they're not a specific one, but I before looking like externally, ask yourself, one, do I have a degree of certification in something? Because one, it means that you'll get to get paid more for the outing. You know, it's like, oh, I'm a teacher. Like, who doesn't want a preschool teacher babysitting? I don't have to get regular pay. I can increase my pain. And then two, what do you do at your current job? So there's not this additional learning curve. Oh, that's huge because now unless you're starting a business, that's different. But a side hustle, if I'm just here for the money, then I'm not trying to learn anything new. Like, I just want to be able to just do it. And so for me, tutoring and babysitting was so perfect. Because autopilot, I can tutor, I teach all day, you know, when I'm teaching preschool, babysitting. The kids love me. I'm such a, you know, this is what I can do. And so that was a perfect side hustle for me, you know. And so say if you were like, I don't know, like, maybe you work as a home health aid or something like that or, you know, maybe organization is something. You're like, you know, I'm already helping people in their home get their things together. And I love organizing, organizing, I can do that, you know. It's important to do the math before you jump into it. Because some side hustles require a little bit of investment, you know. So it's like, well, does this make sense? You know, like, you know, let's just say you decide, oh, I'm going to drive Uber. Okay, so is your car insurance going to go up? Oh, you know, like, yes, gas. And so is the math going to math? You want to make sure whatever side hustle you choose, that you do the math ahead of time. You know, that if you are going to invest, let's just say you're a really great baker, you know, if you are going to invest like, um, and maybe you're going to invest time and energy and money into learning how to decorate cakes because you bake cakes well, but oh, you're like, oh, I'll take the $200 decorating class because it means I can charge another 30% on the cake that I bake. Oh, I love that. So there has to be what I call direct return on investment, you know. So meaning that in the beginning when you are investing in a company or whatever you're doing, it's okay to it's indirect return doesn't make sense, meaning like, I'm not going to get, uh, uh, you know, a mail robins pen in the beginning or like business cards necessarily because can I sell this pen? and unless I'm in a pen selling business to make money. So in the beginning, it's like, okay, I'm gonna invest in maybe like a cute alpha from Marshall's because I'm a speaker. And because when I show up, this will allow me then to get paid more because I look really professional. So there's a direct return. - Got it. - If I bake cakes, I'm gonna buy egg, flour, sugar, the things I make, put it together, bake the cake. So many people invest in the indirect thing, you know, like the accruter mon, like the website, the this, the that. It's like, you haven't made any money yet. Now you're broker. - Yeah. - Number four, you know. So just being mindful, like make sure that the math makes sense, get things that are aligned with like what you're already doing and what maybe you have a certificate or a degree in so you could get paid more. - Oh, I love that. Any final parting wisdom. - I'll say this that like, we are here, well, I don't know if you know this, Mel, but two and a half years ago, my husband passed away suddenly. - I did not know that. - I mean, any wisdom. - So that sucks. And so one thing I learned from that, aside from the financial component, which is that we did, I want to say 85 to 90% of the things right. So I get to just miss him. There's not that financial ruin that so many, it's going to be women lose their partner and their home. That has not been the case for me. But what I did when my therapist calls the gift of grief is that it gave me perspective of what's really important. You know, like that all of this that you're learning today is not for money's sake, it's for meaning's sake. You know, like, I hope you remember to put that first and center that like, what is the real thing that you're wanting to what end, time with family, time with friends, you know, like purpose, whatever that is to center that and to use the money to match to it. Because you might already have enough, you know, I didn't know I had enough. I was like the driver like, oh, baby, we could do this. And he'd be like, well, I like our house. You know, we could get this car, you know, if I work even harder and he's like, well, the car's paid off, I like our car. His thing was always 'cause I have a stepdaughter, Alyssa. He would always be like, well, if Alyssa's good and you're good, I'm good, you know? And it took for him passing away to make me realize that it's enough, like I have enough. I spend way more time with family and friends now, you know, like so all that I work toward is to just bring back to center to enough. I don't need to collect anymore, like, you know, I'm so happy my book made the New York Times best sellers list. But honestly, like what does that even mean? You know, we're here for Flash in the Pan and how will you spend that time? And I hope you spend it like on the things that mean the most, connectedness, love, purpose, and they use your money as one of the tools to help you achieve that life. - You are a gift to all of us. - Thank you. - Thank you for absolutely everything that you poured into us today. What's coming up for you? - I just miss him. He was a really good man. - He still is. And he's really proud of you. It sounds like you taught you some things that he could not teach you when he was still here. - So much, honestly. Like I look back and I'm just like, oh, I mean candidly, I see it as with so many women who are looking for partnership. My husband never made over $60,000 a year. And yet the way he looked after all of us, I mean, he called my parents more than I did. Like he would cut my nephew's hair. When he passed away, there was a little old lady down the street who had never met, who knocked on my door and said, I heard the gentleman here passed away. And I said, yes, she said, you know, he'll really miss him. He used to rake my lawn and I didn't even know that. But that's how he was. You know, sometimes I think that we think more money means that we could do more. And he was testing it that you don't need. You can show up fully. So I just, yeah, he just, it's a loss. The loss is great, but not just mine. And so like, I'm just told, bless, I have experience, that kind of love. I was loved so, so, so well. That even without him being here, that love still resonates through me and around me and the people that he touched. So, just really fortunate. - We're really fortunate that we have you. Thank you for sharing that. - Thank you. - You're welcome. I feel very grateful that you were now my friend. - Thank you. - And the thing is is that when you don't understand money, and you're gonna make me cry, when you don't understand money and you're really scared about where you are, it clouds everything that's important. - Yeah. - Until it comes crashing in your face, and you waste it, like, you know. And you spend all your emotional energy in that shame. - Yeah. - And you not only miss the solutions, but you're not present for your life. - Yeah. Because it can, like, you know, there's so much joy to be had, even if you don't have, like, it's, if you don't have enough for your basic needs. Obviously, that's really hard. But for many people, that's actually not the case. - Yes. - You know, that we are making ourselves sick and unhappy from a place of, like, you actually have enough, and your kids are right here, they wanna play with you. You know, like, you actually have enough, and your wife wants to, like, watch a movie with you. You know, your parents wanna see you, you actually have enough. And it's not gonna be until they're gone, and they're like, "Oh, I wish I would have," you know? - Yeah. - And so, like, I'm fortunate that I, something in me, I mean, I believe in a divine power, like, and a year and a half before Drell passed away, it was like the sense that came over me, like, you need to spend a lot of time with your husband. Like, people wasn't sick or anything like that. I just was like, 'cause I just was working so much. I mean, my business, I did eight figures in a year, and I was like, "Oh." And then something was like, making a lot, but also was taking a toll. And it was like, I think you need to slow down and like, focus here. And so, I did, so the last year and a half of my marriage, went from good to great. And I'm so grateful that I listened to that, you know, thing that's the Tiffany. So we had like Friday date nights, you know, like I didn't work on Fridays, and I would stop working at five, 'cause he got off at five, so we can hang out after work. I wasn't doing that before. I used to work from like, you know, seven to 10 everyday, regardless, you know? And so, I look back at the time, and I'm so grateful, you know, that like, he always loved me well, and I got to really love him well in that time, you know? And so, there's not much I regret other than, I just wish he was here, obviously. You know, but I think about our love, I think about all the things that we did together. - That's beautiful. - You know, so, yeah, but it's just, yeah. - Oh, I'm sorry, I know. - Why are you apologizing? - No, 'cause I just don't wanna bring the energy down. - You didn't, you lifted it up. Thank you. - You made it way more important, honestly. - Thank you. - No, thank you. So I always tell the person listening that I love you. - Okay, do you want to move this? - No, no, and I believe in your ability to change your life. And so, if you wanna do that together, I don't know if I'm gonna get through this. You know, in case nobody else tells you as you're listening to us, I wanted to say, I love you. - I love you, yeah. I love you too. - And we believe in your ability to change your life. - Absolutely. And Tiffany just gave you all of the information and tips and tricks and strategies that you need to go do it. (upbeat music) - That work, okay. - Are great. I gotta wait for my action though. - Action. - All right, are we good with that? It's a garbage truck done. (laughs) - You're not done, but. - We're just gonna keep going. - Okay. - Go for it. And we'll go up a little bit more. I'm sorry, I should say that, true or not. Is that good? Is that simpler? That stuff flies over my head when people start talking about that? Okay, I'm gonna do one more, sorry. Including. Okay, sorry, go up one more time. Two million people to be exact. Save million, oh my lord. Oh, let me go back. - Woo, oh my gosh. - You ever see like, what does that movie, Friday? Is no, what is it? Is it called Friday? No, what's the movie with them? Virginia George. Oh my god, I have like the worst like, oh lady memory. They're like, get in loser. We're going to them all. - Of course, of course, of course, but we're not going to them all. - Yes, yes, we're going to them all. - It's like, get in loser. - Yes, get in loser. - Yes. - Woo. (clapping) (laughing) (upbeat music) Oh, and one more thing, I know this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyer's right and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. (upbeat music) Stitcher. [Music]