Speaker 1This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses, setup required, compatibility and availability varies 18+.
Speaker 2Saying yes to too many things is the path to burnout. You just keep adding on more and more things, more responsibilities, more objectives. It's easy to get lost. It's actually a really good point. I don't need to add more things. I don't need to follow every exciting path. You can't have a perfect plan. You can't wait for this ideal moment to execute and try to act on it. For a lot of people, they just wait too long.
Speaker 3What do you think people should do who are ambitious but want to enjoy their life?
Speaker 2That's such a good question. So...
Speaker 3Now you have millions of people that follow. You have millions of people that follow you online, that have read your work. What are the most common things people repeat back to you? Like, what are the things that people are getting tattooed on their bodies? Because I know that's happening.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 3What are the things that you're like, "Oh, wow, whatever came into me, this really resonated"?
Speaker 2Yeah, I think the most common one that I see is if the pain was deep, you will have to let it go many times. The act of letting go is healing, but it doesn't mean it's a one-time event. You may have to let go. Let that same thing go over and over again because the mind is malleable, but it requires practice. So when you feel that tension coming up, instead of grabbing onto it and, you know, rolling in it, you have to practice letting it go, and then eventually the mind will learn.
Speaker 3So for you, let's say somebody is in deep pain. Do you have a practice that you think through to release pain?
Speaker 2I mean, I've been meditating Vipassana really seriously since... 2012, and, you know, started off with 10-day practices, 10-day meditation retreats that are totally silent. I've done 20-day long retreats, 30-day, 45-day, and this year I did my first 60-day retreat. And that practice, it's sort of like taking yourself to the mental gym. You're building awareness, you're building non-reaction, and you're building compassion for yourself and others. Those are things that are built into the human mind, but they're not necessarily strong. And that's the key way that I take care of myself. That's really where my, you know, when the mind is really heavy and full of pain, you're not going to put out your best output. When you decrease that heaviness and the mind becomes lighter, then your creativity really starts flowing. So I think without spending all that time meditating, I would have never been a writer. That's why I always spend time, like when I carve out a year, like I started this year with a 60-day meditation retreat, totally silent in India. And I need that time to just work on myself so that I can come out and give more. But without that, you know, you just keep adding on, adding on more and more things, more responsibilities, more objectives, and it's easy to get lost. So to me, that clarifies what should I actually spend my time on. It helps me do the healing that, you know, of the challenges that I went through when I was younger and just stay focused.
Speaker 3So you know how these days they say founders have to be obsessed. You have to be obsessed. To win.
Speaker 2Obsessed is the buzzword these days. It is.
Speaker 3And so I guess my question is like, is it possible to be healthily obsessed?
Speaker 2I'd rather be focused and excited about what I'm doing than obsessed. Obsessed is like, when I hear that word, I feel like there's a bit of a cloud over my eyes where part of being a founder is adaptability. You have to be able to adapt. You can have a clear goal, but if you need to shift things to, like, actually, like, be able to make a return to your investors, to be able to actually, you know, hire more people or really produce something successful, the plan from day one is not going to be the same plan, like, three years from then. So I think focus allows that flexibility that obsession doesn't.
Speaker 3Yeah, I think about that a lot. Because I do think if we have these stories we tell ourselves, and then they become ingrained in our head, and it's like a neural pathway that gets deeper and deeper and deeper until it's, and so I have a lot of words that I say to myself that sometimes I question, like, do you have to be obsessed to win? I don't really ever question that. I just do it and think that that must be true.
Speaker 2I remember when I first started writing, I knew that I wanted to start with poetry and then also play around with essays. But back in 2016, 2015, when I first started, I would write a piece and I would spend time looking at it and just keep taking out words, keep taking out words. And I'm like, is this enhancing? Meaning, is this enhancing the power of what I'm trying to say? Because especially if you're sharing something online, you have barely half a second with an individual to really give them something of value.
Speaker 3What is your favorite thing that you've ever written? Do you have something you come back to?
Speaker 2Yeah, there's a piece that I've wrote that's in, I think, the first book. That's about, it's about love. Love, it essentially goes along the lines, like, love is not about trying to think what you can do for me. Love is me trying to give you as much as I can so that you can shine. You know, that selfless quality of love, like so many relationships, of our relationships are so transactional. And when you really, you know, you being in a serious marriage, I'm also in a serious marriage, like you both have to be really good at just giving selflessly, giving selflessly repeatedly, and then trying to design a culture in your relationship that is actually nourishing to the both of you. And that requires a lot of honesty, that requires hard conversations, and the only thing you can really expect is imperfection. And you too will figure it out over time. You will have to have things that you apologize about, or you said something a little too harshly or whatnot, but you're just not going to be always moving at the same exact pace. So there may be periods where, you know, you're really supporting the relationship and bringing in a lot to the table, but then other times your partner has to step up. Because, you know, you're going through a hard moment, like, you know, a dear family member could have passed away, like relationships, even when the two of you love each other so much, are still full of constant problem solving. So that means we have to take turns leading, we have to take turns stepping up, and I think that's part of the beauty of holding each other.
Speaker 3Yeah, these days it does feel like also there's so much around boundaries. You know, I won't do this for my partner, and I won't do that, and, you know, I don't want to be taken advantage of. I see it a lot with women, you know, talking about this. And you have a quote that I love, which is, pain has a strong magnetic force. It can pull you towards evolution, or it can pull you towards reveling in the darker tendencies of the mind. And so I was wondering, how do you deal with the darker tendencies of the mind? How do you deal with pain? It could be in relationships or in anything in life.
Speaker 2Yeah, you have to be able to observe yourself clearly, with acceptance, without judgment, so that you can see what's actually happening inside of you. Like, where do my behaviors originate from? And have a really good sense of, you know, where you can go and letting your actions take you into a brighter direction as opposed to a darker one. Because ultimately, what are we? We are like the accumulation of our actions. And having that strong determination to put your foot down and say, okay, I know that my mind would like to be really upset, would like to scream, would like to fight, would like to... But that's not necessarily productive. Let me double down on being honest with myself. Okay, I may feel this tension in this moment. Do I need to play it out? Or can I just voice it calmly?
Speaker 3So how do you do that calmly part? Like, I think in a lot of what we do, you're getting these bad patterns. You fall in them. Yeah. And you stay there. Yeah. So like, how do you break bad patterns?
Speaker 2It's two key words. Slow down. Slow down. Slow down. Slow down. We are so impulsive. It's lightning fast. It's so quick that you think that it's the real you. That the first impulse is the real you. And it's not. The first impulse is your defensive mechanism that you learned probably when you were a child. You know, some people will react with anger, with sadness, whatever it is. But when you build your awareness, you can start seeing the moment that the pattern starts arising. And the... The awareness literally makes your mind more spacious. So you see the pattern arising. And then that quality of non-reaction that I was talking about earlier, that's you hitting the pause button. Okay. I see the pattern coming up. But I'm going to pause it. I'm not going to act on it. I'm not going to suppress it. I'm going to let myself feel it. But I'm going to give myself the time that I need to choose skillfully. And that's the key word. Skillful. Like, can you take this energy and then transmute it into something that's actually productive?
Speaker 3Like, do you and your wife fight?
Speaker 2Yeah, for sure. We don't agree all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 3Are you Latino?
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3Okay. I don't... Latino men, I think, are spicy too. I'm a Latina chick. And I always joke that I'm pretty spicy. But, like, were you ever super elevated? Like, are you the type of person that gets mad?
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the first part of our relationship, when my wife and I got together, you know, the first six years, it was like living in a hurricane. Like, we were... It was a constant blame game. Like the mind does not want to accept responsibility. responsibility. It's always looking for an external reason, like, where can I point the finger? How can I blame you instead of just taking ownership over how I feel? And that was the first six years. And it wasn't until we started meditating where we were individually, separately building our own self-awareness. And as we were building our self-awareness, we started seeing, okay, this actually isn't always your fault. Actually, this tension that I feel started way before the argument. And then my mind was looking for reasons to make this into a big deal. And there's this key moment that happened where my wife and I were both, maybe like three years after we started meditating really seriously, we were in different rooms. We were working for a few hours. I was in the living room. She was in, I think, the bedroom. And she comes into the room that I was in laughing. And I'm like, what's going on? What's up? And she was like, I just spent the last two hours trying to figure out how this tension is going to work. And I'm like, I just spent the last two hours trying to figure out how this tension is going to work. And I'm like, I just spent the last two hours trying to figure out how this tension is going to work. I'm arguing because I can't see you clearly. There's something that I'm missing. So instead of trying to win, my objective is, can I hear your part of your story, your version of what happened to try to really understand where you're coming from? And simultaneously, she's giving that space to me as well so that we can take turns trying to hear and see, okay, what am I missing?
Speaker 3Can you progress in your relationship if only one of you is doing work like this?
Speaker 2I think it's going to be challenging. I think it's what, what matters more because it's not like, oh, you and your partner both have to see a therapist or both have to meditate. What matters more is, are you both open to growth? Do you have the humility to be able to say, oh, actually my mistake, I messed up. I need to apologize for that. And I'm also willing to correct my behaviors and try to do better next time. That's the key element is, are you open to growth? So you don't both need to like meditate two hours a day or whatnot. You just have to be ready to, to be real, to be honest
Speaker 3and be humble. Yeah. I've heard a lot of people have that statement, which is, well, I was working on myself, but he wasn't ever doing the work, whatever the work is, or she wasn't doing.
Speaker 2I really don't like that term, the work, right? Because that's a very sort of, it comes with obscurity. Like, what does that even mean? And also is how I define the work actually true? Or is it just what works for me personally? So you can't universalize that. You can't say like, this is how you do the work just because it's something helped you in that moment of your life. Everyone's work is going to look differently for them to take steps forward. Yeah. And so really the way to do
Speaker 3it is to focus on yourself as opposed to the other person, which none of us want to do. That's really
Speaker 4terrible advice. Yeah. How can I change you? That's what we all want to do. Right. But you
Speaker 3have like, you have another quote that I love from your book that says, your habits are the paint you use to create your personal masterpiece. Can you explain what that
Speaker 2means? A lot of times we think about our life as something that's driven by the outside in, but it's really the inside out. You have to think of your actions as the key thing that designs your life. There are still going to be external obstacles that may come. And, but it's ultimately like, what can you double down on? What can you count on? It's your own actions and your actions are what you use to flow better with the universe. And that's what I meant earlier where, you know, the universe is something that it's not static, it's dynamic. And to be able to like adapt, bob and weave, and really like, you know, handle the ups and downs of life, you have to be able to have a mixture of that adaptability and
Speaker 3just rely on good actions. Wow. You also have a saying that is interesting that you don't always hear from people who are, you know, they're like, I don't know, I don't know how to do this. I don't who are talking about slowness and thoughtfulness, which is waiting doesn't get you anywhere. You don't need a perfect plan. What you really need is momentum. What do you mean? And how do you know when that's applicable? Yeah. Slow down. Yeah. It's been really fun. You know, I spend a lot
Speaker 2of time meditating, but I also have, uh, I have friends, um, in Silicon Valley and we started a venture capital company called wisdom ventures and it's been successful. You know, we've, uh, million and we've invested in great companies that are really trying to try to scale wellness and wellbeing in the world. Um, but what I've learned from that is that you can't have a perfect plan. You can't wait for like this ideal moment to execute and try to act on it. And I found that even in my own personal work as a writer, where I learned more from actually acting on, you know, if a sentence appears in my mind, let me put it down. And in the process, of putting together an essay, I can actually see where it's going and what actually will communicate most effectively with the reader. And for a lot of people, they just, they wait too long. They wait too long. And it's in the process of, um, actually writing or building a company, whatever it is, like that's where all the lessons come from. And then you keep expanding your experience. I think I, if I had waited to, you know, be the perfect poet before I released anything or like be the perfect writer, it would have never worked. I would have never released anything.
Speaker 3Do you ever look back on the things that you did before and cringe?
Speaker 2Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah. I think about it and then, you know, if I were to start, have started today, the themes and the things that I would have been working on would be differently. But I also want to honor the fact that, you know, when I go out and do events and I talk to the readers, they all have such different books that, that they love. And people will tell me, you know, say Inward was their favorite or Clarity Connection was their favorite or lighter. And that was a, that was a phase that I needed to honor. Like, just let it be what it is. You can't go back and change it. But I think there's nothing wrong with like understanding that life is full of chapters and that includes you as well.
Speaker 3So what do you say to yourself when you're too scared to put something out or maybe when, you know, young, young Pueblo, younger Pueblo, younger Pueblo, like what, what do you say when, when that fear comes? Of like, is this good enough? Should I put this out? Are there words you repeat to yourself?
Speaker 2I mean, there's an experience that I go back to, you know, I, um, I think about my, uh, editor, uh, Matthew Benjamin, and he really taught me some critical things about, about writing and the writing process. When I was putting together lighter, my first nonfiction book, um, he had to tell me the hard truth. He was like, Diego, it's never going to be perfect. We, you know, when, when there's a, there's a process called after putting in the manuscript, it's called copy editing. And you, you and a group of people will constantly read the book over and over and over again to get all the mistakes out, to make sure that there's a clear grammatical framework that the way that you use a semicolon in the first chapter is the way you use a semicolon in a 10th chapter. And he had to tell me, he was like, Hey, it's, there are still going to be mistakes after us reading this book dozens of times. And that gave me so much freedom. So now when I put something out, I know that one piece, one post is not going to make or break anything, anything. It's a, it's a long game of stamina. Well, where it will accumulate into something bigger over time. So if one thing fails, it doesn't matter at all. And if anything, when I try to, especially if I'm releasing an essay, I try to get it to 80%. If it feels like it's 80% of the way there, it's good enough. And if it's good enough and people really resonate with it, it's good enough. And if it's good enough and people really resonate with it, then maybe that can become a chapter in a future book.
Speaker 3Like that. You've had a lot of incredible things happen in life. I love that you share that online. And I think that gratitudes can be really hard even when you're, you've had a lot of success. And you have another line I love, which is one of the healthiest habits to learn, being grateful for the little things. What do you do to be grateful? Because I know so many really rich people that are unhappy. Yeah. Yeah. I try to not,
Speaker 2forget about the basics. Like one of my favorite, favorite things is good quality water. And my wife and I live in a, you know, in a place where there's, there's only like 2000 people that live in the town. There's acres between neighbors. We live in the woods and we have a well and that well that gives water to us is one of the things that I'm most grateful for in life. And it seems some, it seems like something so simple, but like going out to like walk in the woods and enjoy the sunlight, like hitting your face. And just having moments around the table where you can really like talking to my mom talking to my dad having my brother and sister there like these are such key people in my life that the simple conversations are so nourishing with them so there are all these things where like yeah you can stay in a million five-star hotels but who's going to bring you the biggest laughter in your life it's probably your dad saying something really silly you know so you gotta you can't you have to really ground yourself in the simple things yeah so you ground yourself
Speaker 3in the simple but then also you have like a big purpose to life and i think you know i try to think similarly like our goal here can get overwhelming at times like we want to try to make a material stake on the world while also realizing that at some point like we'll die nobody will have cared really so it's like how can you hold both those things at once but what do you say to people who are like what is my purpose you know i want to do something
Speaker 2bigger yeah what would you say to that person i think your purpose is really going to be wherever your talent and your and your intuition intersect so i think a lot of people they're really focused on improving whatever it is that they're not good at and that's really important in the your personal development but then when it comes to like what am i going to give to the world how do i make big impact you're actually going to focus on improving whatever you're already good at when you can really double down on what you're good at you're going to be indispensable and you're going to be able to then scale that and give it to more and more people and i think that's that's the key key sort of recipe to to success is like i'm good at this but like can i get better at it so you know i get a lot of beautiful messages and i also get a lot of questions but the two most common things that i get are how do you let go and also should i break up with my boyfriend and also i don't know i don't know your boyfriend i have no idea so like how can i even
Speaker 3opine on that so how do you answer a question of how do you let go how do you let go is a good one
Speaker 2um people want a straightforward like five steps this is how you let go make it as easy for me as possible but that is the sickness of modern day society where if you look at your phone every single app on your phone is trying to make your life easier how can i get this food to you faster how can i give you a ride from you know point x to point z how can i just make simplify your life as much as possible and i think that's the key to success and i think that's the key to success that has insidiously permeated our minds where we want a five-star life we want a five-star relationship that has nothing wrong with it we want situations that are almost identical to a romantic comedy where it's like okay we have one fight and then we're happily ever after life is not like that it's never going to be like that life is going to be a constant stream of ups and downs and our job is not to run away from that our job is to build the inner resilience of our inner clarity so that we can solve those issues when they arise it's a very good point it is such
Speaker 3a tough realization to realize there's no making it you know like oh you've made it you're like i don't know uh i don't think that ever happens actually it just keeps getting more and more difficult you've talked a lot about um how to change your life and how to get on the right trajectory in your books and and i'm curious if there is no making it how do you make it in life but there is like finding your purpose or there is going on the right path how do you change a life that you really don't like right now if somebody's listening and they're like stuck in a job they hate with a relationship that's terrible with maybe friends that they
Speaker 2don't really feel close to what do you do to change a life you have to be okay with profoundly listening to your intuition because it's going to be pointing you somewhere your intuition is not something that's like oh turn right turn left it your intuition appears when it's time to open a new chapter and you have to have the strength to actually follow through so your intuition is it's not going to lead you into danger but it is going to challenge you it's going to challenge you to close a chapter open up a new one you know say no to the old job start making new friends that are more aligned to how you actually want to show up in life or just make different decisions about your relationships and it's hard work
Speaker 3to listen to your intuition yeah it's funny i saw this like video that keeps going around on the internet and it's like um you know this year i don't pray for strength lord like i pray for happiness peace and i've got enough learnings no more learnings please and i get it because
Speaker 2the self-growth thing is really hard it's really hard yeah and you don't want to like constantly push yourself to more and more growth like there's a it's a challenge that a lot of people face where they are constantly looking at themselves and they're like oh my god i'm not going to be able to at themselves as a project like what else can i do to change myself usually some of the biggest medicine you can give yourself is just self-acceptance like i have come through such a long journey to be here right now just accept yourself where you are and realize that you've already taken these giant steps to overcome so many difficulties and you should celebrate that
Speaker 3how do you balance that with the advice of like getting one percent better every day or you know becoming a better person or becoming a better person or becoming a better person or becoming a fully realized version of yourself you need to have a spacious mind that's that's a sign of
Speaker 2intelligence it's you being able to like hold these two seemingly opposing things and just realize that like okay i am an imperfect person and i'm always going to be imperfect but that does not stop me from focusing in on two or three habits that i should develop because that would help me and help others what's that statement a spacious mind a spacious mind is so important i think we get stuck in black and white thinking and we don't see the gray we don't see the subtlety and usually that middle path
Speaker 3is where you're going to find your answer what do you think are some of the things that stop us
Speaker 2the most from having a spacious mind attachment clinging i think attachment immediately creates stress attachment will immediately narrow down your view of possibilities and it's going to make you stiff as a board and really what's life going to ask of you it's going to ask for you to be adaptable flexible loose so that you can fly with it and it's going to make you feel like you're comfortable and it's going to make you feel comfortable and it's going to make you feel like
Speaker 3and are there other things you don't do in life like like are you on social media all the time are you scrolling are you watching television shows are really particular about it like yeah are there things that you cut out of your life because you've realized they take up space in
Speaker 2this mind that you want to preserve it's more so i add in what's important and i make sure to follow through on it so i meditate two hours a day every day i've been doing that since 2015 started by then 2015 when it was when i started meditating daily and two hours straight to one hour in the morning one hour and so right before we started chatting i was meditating for an hour and um and then at some point tonight on the plane back to mass i'm going to meditate another hour um but i do that every day no matter what no matter what you know without fail wherever i am in the world um and that to me is like that's the primary way that i take care of myself i make sure that i'm you know essentially cleaning the mind out in the morning and i'm not doing anything else i'm just cleaning it out in the evening because that's what you do when you observe the truth that's happening within the framework of the body is that you're tuning yourself up to the truth of the universe which is the truth of change and change is the exact opposite of attachment so i'm literally training my mind to embrace change to loosen up so that i'm not trapped by the attachment and then eventually like if you if you stay still in a river that's always flowing you're gonna get knocked down so i'd rather embrace change than you know be still but those two hours a day are fundamental i make sure to walk make sure to you know strengthen my body and then there's nothing wrong with watching a little bit of reality tv at night what about what
Speaker 3does that look like like when you go to meditate you do it anywhere you listen to something you're
Speaker 2just silent yeah at this point um it's just like 90 of the time is totally silent sometimes i listen to some chantings from my teacher but it's um you know we i've meditated probably like 14 000 hours which is a lot of time actually this this year when i finished the 60-day retreat i looked at my the course sort of all the courses that i've sat and i've realized that i if i take all the retreats that i've sat i've spent more than a year of my life in silent retreats so not all at the same time but when you put them all together and that's been my time to like cultivate myself i think that's been key to the success of my marriage the success of my life and i've been the success of the relationship between me and my parents to you know writing more books to just showing up in a way that feels good you know like putting putting actions down that i'm not remorseful about and um i can't take that away from myself when people ask me like how can you put so much time into meditating i'm like it's a better investment than the s&p 500 like it's it's a and it's an investment that gives massive returns so why would i take something away from myself that helps me be the best version of myself
Speaker 3so true so funny sometimes we have a saying here which is like that worked so well so we stopped doing it you know and i think that's meditation for me i'm like when i get into a state where i'm rocking and it's been weeks and i'm meditating continuously i'm like this works great i'll stop
Speaker 2yeah and so yeah that's really interesting but then think about it it's better to just let the the benefits of it compound and i've seen that you know going from those first few 10-day meditation retreats that were so difficult like so challenging to be constantly with your emotions, to watch everything in your mind arise and pass away, to feel all the tough feelings. And then in the 60-day retreat that I sat this year, I saw all the work that I did before, and that retreat was so calm. But because it was so calm, it was way deeper than anything else that I've experienced. And that would have been impossible without that previous work. This is a little crazy, but what about
Speaker 3like all the people that use like mushrooms or ayahuasca or stuff to do these sort of retreats
Speaker 2or states? Are you just... Yeah, I don't opt into that. Just cold turkey. No, no. I mean, if you have the breath and you have the body, you have total access to all the wisdom in the universe. So to me, I'd rather be... To be able to observe reality as it is and accept that reality over and over again. And then through that process, the mind just gets ever more concentrated so that you can really, really deeply immerse yourself in that truth of change. So I don't have a need to like take something external and put it in my mouth. You know, that's that. And I've tried psychedelics. I've tried a bunch of different things when I was younger. And it's great. I think, you know, for some people, that gives them tons of value. For me, I'd rather observe reality as it is.
Speaker 3Beautiful statement, actually. So do you have like enlightened states when you meditate for that long?
Speaker 2I have states of clarity. Like the word enlightenment is so loaded. You know, it's like who, like, and whenever someone's like, oh, I'm enlightened, like I usually look the other way. I think you see a person by their actions and how kind and respectful they are to themselves and others. But yeah, there are definitely moments of clarity where, you know, the retreats will start with like the objective of, you know, trying to maintain the state of mind. And then your awareness of your breath for a minute. But then when you go to these longer 60-day retreats, like you could be aware of your breath for like 30 minutes perfectly, an hour perfectly, two, three hours perfectly, where, and you become so immersed in that, that that object, you absorb, you get absorbed into that object. And there is, there are such profound states of clarity and bliss. But then you use all of that, you know, that really strong, nurtured mind to then turn it back into the body. And let you, you know, you're basically examining like, what is the truth? Like, what is the ultimate truth? And the truth that you're looking at and feeling directly is everything is impermanent. Everything that arises will ultimately pass away. There is a dissatisfaction to life, especially if you attach yourself to everything. And at the ultimate level, what is Diego? Diego is a set of mental and physical phenomena that are intertwined. And it's a set of mental and physical phenomena that are interacting with each other. And it's a set of mental and physical phenomena that are interacting really, really rapidly. So whenever I find myself getting stressed or getting too attached, or getting, you know, really sort of bogged down by the mundane aspects of life, I have to remind myself, like, dude, you're not even real. Chill out. Yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah, that's actually a really good practice. I think there's like some fear in...
Speaker 2Yeah, ego dissolution.
Speaker 3Yeah. Is that what that is? What is that? I get an actual visceral fear.
Speaker 2I feel you. Yeah. It's, I mean, the ego, the ego loves dominating the mind. And the ego is something that is worthwhile because it helps you survive. And that's what human life used to be, used to be pure survival. But then now we live in a civilization that asks us to be more compassionate because it's through compassion that we have all these interactions that help build wealth, that help build community, that help build, you know, good relationships. So trying to live from a place of ego is going to keep you defensive over and over again. A living from a place of compassion is going to create harmony in your life. But to get there, you need to just let the ego evaporate and the ego is going
Speaker 3to fight you. And how does one, like, evaporate an ego? How do you, how do you even recognize when you're an ego? How do you try to get rid of it? And how do you operate from a better place?
Speaker 2Even if you don't meditate, you can still do practices that help you dissolve ego. And the ego will, like, shoot out lightning fast in the moments of impulsiveness. So it goes back to what we were saying before, where the key aspect is slowing down. It's like, okay, I feel the rush of my ego. My ego wants me to respond as soon as possible. It wants me to react in a way where I'm, you know, shutting someone else down or shutting an emotion down or whatever it is. So instead, let me pause. Let me recenter myself in compassion. Let me honor the truth. Like, I don't need to, suppress anything at all, but let me just, can I vocalize what I'm feeling without creating a mess
Speaker 3that I need to clean up later? That's really interesting. I think, do you find that successful people are more or less aware or have more or less ego? I think a lot of successful people are driven
Speaker 2by their past trauma. And I found that even in myself, like, I came from, you know, such a place where I'm like watching my parents, like fight and struggle with the rent over and over again for like, you know, more than a decade. Like that was hard. And that created a big imprint in my mind. And something I'm personally working on now is just realizing like, this life is beautiful. Like, I don't need to add more things. I don't need to like pick up another side quest. I don't need to like, you know, I'm writing is my primary enjoyment. And it's one of the ways that I get to serve in the world. And it's one of the ways that I get to serve in the world. And it's one of the ways that if, you know, I meet other people and, you know, great opportunities come about, I need to make sure that I'm really following through on them because my intuition says, yes, this will actually expand the impact and, you know, hopefully serve more people well. But I don't need to follow every
Speaker 3exciting path. It is so, it's such a fascinating thing that happens almost the more success you have, the more options you get. Yes. And then the more miserable you become because you have
Speaker 2too many options. Yeah. Saying yes to too many things is,
Speaker 3the path to burnout. Yeah. And so you really have to ask yourself a question. I mean, you have a quote I love that says your intuition, your intuition will be ready to make a big move before your mind is. And so with these ideas of these paths and all these yeses, how do you know
Speaker 2whether something is your intuition or your ego that's telling you? Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. Yeah. I mean, I feel that energy of clinging, like it really wants something. Whereas intuition, especially for me, it feels much more bodily. It feels like it's coming from here as opposed to up here. And the intuition feels like calm waves that are hitting the shore if you're standing in front of an ocean and they just calmly, repeatedly are pointing you to a particular direction. Whereas the franticness of ego is like, you know, trying to dominate in every moment.
Speaker 3That's a good point. When you think about, where it is in the body, it really helps. Like I, I think my ego and a lot of my attachment comes from, like, I can feel it in my chest. It usually makes my, it's like my nervous energy right here. And then when I have something that just feels great, it's in my belly. Ah, that's so good. You know, that feels nice, but I'm so busy during the fucking day. Yeah. Yeah. I stopped paying attention to it. Yeah. No. And it's easily, it's easy to get
Speaker 2driven by something that's like just totally, you know, unproductive energy in the body. Um, you know, you said the word graph. So I got to tell you when I, when I went into that 60 day retreat, um, so it was January 1st to March 3rd, my strategy for the retreat was don't grab anything. Like don't like literally whatever story in the mind, whatever emotion that's rising, like observe everything, but don't grab every anything at all. And it was so helpful to realize, you know, in the act of not grabbing anything, you saw that everything that arises passes away. We get scared by pain. We get scared by heartache and we think it's going to last forever, but really
Speaker 3it's just another thing that's going to change. So that's kind of, that's interesting. So that would basically be, be like something, um, a feeling, uh, a quick decision or something comes to you and our natural interaction as a human is like, okay, I'm going to do something with this. I'm going to react to it. And instead in your, your practice, you, you know, take a little bit of a breath or you kind of are pondering it, almost just looking at it, deciding, do I want to do anything?
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly. And these are two ways of living where one is the internal dynamic of how do I keep progressing as an individual? But then sometimes people get it confused. They're like, oh, well, does that mean I can't have goals in life? Does that mean that I can't accomplish big things? No, if you focus on living virtuously and not harming yourself and not harming other people, and you try to do your best to provide service to the world, then there's nothing wrong with having big goals and really realizing that this universe that we live in, like what I mentioned earlier, what is this idea of Diego? At the ultimate level, it's nothing. So this universe that we live in, you don't want to hurt yourself. You don't want to hurt other people. But then other than that, it's just a canvas. You can paint on it however you want. You can do whatever you want. So if you want to dream big, like dream as big as possible. Do you think that people should
Speaker 3try to be happy?
Speaker 2I think that people, should try to develop a sense of peace where they have a relationship with their emotions where the not grabbing every emotion. They're not trying to like constantly get bogged down by the heaviness that's in the mind. So when you can have that like internal resilience of, okay, I feel heavy in this moment, but I'm not going to let it dominate my actions. I'm not going to let myself speak harshly to other people. And actually I'm going to focus in this heavy moment, I'm going to focus on being gentle to myself and to others. Then you are able to build this like deep inner peace, deep resilience and happiness. I think it's possible to be happy, but a lot of people just confuse the word. They think of it as a constant high, a constant high of excitement, a constant high of bliss, a constant high of pleasure, but the beautiful moments in life are usually really simple and small. So I rather have a focus on inner peace and a focus on happiness. Yeah, it does feel like we're all
Speaker 3chasing something and that, you know, often in entrepreneurship, at least we obsess on not being happy. And like, there's also like a sort of a cult around it. It's like, no, this is hard. It's difficult. And I even found, I have a saying, which is choose your hard. And I have to like, be careful. I have to be careful how often I say it because I realized like, oh, am I really focusing on one aspect of life and only paying attention to the difficulty and liking that, you know? And so I guess my question for you is like, how careful do we have to be with the words we say to ourselves? And are there words you do or do not say to yourself?
Speaker 2Oh, that's a good one. I really see the way the intentions in the mind support your external actions and support how things land. So I'm actually really cautious with doubt, really cautious with negativity. Like I don't let it swim in the mind too heavily. Like if I find the mind starting to like, oh, this isn't good, or this interview isn't going well, or this interview, you know, like whatever it could be before that, I make sure to just like, pause all that negative self-talk. I accept that there might be some nervousness there. But then I start thinking to myself, actually, this is going to go really well. And actually, it has gone well, even though it hasn't happened yet. And having that framework just allows way better flow than, you know, that clunky sort of attachment.
Speaker 3Sometimes I struggle with, this is maybe little in some ways, but also important. Have you ever been around a bunch of people or a few people and they really like to talk negative all the time? And they want to talk about other people. How do you engage when
Speaker 2you're around people who want to be negative? Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because when you stop, when you opt out, right, and you're still part of the conversation, but you're not like the person who wants to be the person who wants to be the person who wants to be the person who is doubling down on talking trash about somebody or just being negative. And you say your truth, like, actually, I've never met them. I have no idea what they're actually like. And I hear other people say things about them, but maybe they're, you know, who knows? Like, you can't really trust people's judgment. You take the gas out of the negativity. I think a lot of times when we're interacting, like, we're both coming in with different, you know, fields of emotion. And if I double down on the energy that I'm feeling, instead of just, you know, just adopting the energy of other people, not only is that going to preserve my peace, but hopefully I'm welcoming you into my peace as well. Yeah. Yeah. I think that part's hard.
Speaker 3Thankfully, it's really hard, you know, because you also don't want to be a jerk. You know, sometimes I'll be like, I really don't like to talk about people. You know, I just, I don't, it doesn't make me feel good. I don't like the way I feel afterwards. Yeah. But people don't
Speaker 2usually like that. You know, the response is almost negative. Yeah. Because we want to I want you to join me in that tension. But why, one, why would I do that to myself? And two, I don't know if that's necessarily true. Like, that's just one person's perspective. And that doesn't, perspective is not equated to truth. Yeah, it's a good point. I have a
Speaker 3guy that I've become friends with, Dave Ramsey, you know, who's on the internet. And he has one thing that I really like that he says in his companies, which is they don't allow gossiping. So the first time you get caught gossiping, like, oh, Sharon's doing X and X, they'll just say, hey, we don't do that at this company. We don't gossip. Right. But if you get caught again, you get fired. Wow. Like just carte blanche. And I almost didn't believe him when he said, because I'm like, really, that's incredible. If you could actually do that, you know, but then I've been to his headquarters and he like, for instance, they don't have credit cards, zero credit, the entire place, nobody has a credit card in it. They have debit cards only. And so he really actually believes the things that he says and then does them, which is rare in humans. But I liked that because I was like, you know, it's so easy to fall. So much of your book is about a beautiful way to say that the actions that you take and the habits that you have lead to the life that you live and what is in your mind. And I think a lot of things we don't realize, we're just, we become this amoeba and everybody else's, you know, engagement pattern and whatever we take on. And like your work is really helpful, especially I like the daily Instagrams because it's just a reminder of like, let's not do this. Let's not do this. Let's not do this. Let's not
Speaker 2do that today. Right. Right. Having a little moment to like slow down and reflect, like whether you agree or disagree with what I'm saying, I don't care about that. But more, what's more important is, is it building self-awareness? Like, am I taking note of like how my perception is affecting my actions? That's a lot. There's a lot of value in just that tiny moment of slowing down, especially when everything in society is basically trying to force you to act like a very impulsive, you're going to burn out. And if you want peace, you need to slow down. And also, if you want success, you've got to slow down so you can actually focus your energy.
Speaker 3It's so true. I didn't bring my phone here, which is a good practice, but I, I saw this, uh, the same yesterday and it was, um, an AI meat box. And, uh, basically it's like trending on Twitter. Have you seen this? No. And basically the idea is like when somebody, I'm not sure you felt this just sends you an AI response and they're almost like you become this like meat transient between one AI to another AI. And all of a sudden all we're doing is going back and forth between the robots, you know? And so it's interesting what you say, this holding on to your humanity seems so important, maybe even today more than ever.
Speaker 2I think one, one like little, you know, theory about the future that I have is that there is so much AI that it's not just like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. That it's going to change our relationship with social media. I think like already things are so fake. Like whenever I opened X, like, I'm just like, this is none of it's real. And, or whenever I see, you know, like, uh, things on Instagram as well, or TikTok, like there's so much AI that it is, it makes the interaction of like actually coming together as a virtual community. It's, there's, you have to like jump over that to be able to actually interact with real human beings, that it's going to create a new, new premium on human connection. So I feel like the companies that support human connection and the actual, like, you know, one of the best ideas that you can have for a business is like buying a theater because that theater is going to be full. Like I'm going to want to see my favorite singer sing. I'm going to want to hear my favorite writer speak to make sure that they're
Speaker 3real. Yeah. It's, it's actually a really good point. And now there, there's some sort of visceral reaction to that. At least I feel I'm curious if you do, but when I can tell that it is AI is like an instant turnoff. And it's also this instant, like, ah, sad. Like if you had just not used the robot at all, this would have been better.
Speaker 2Totally. I think a lot of AI, it's just re-scrambling what's happened in the past. So it's hard to get innovation from that. Whereas that's the beauty of the human mind. Like the human mind is, is this like canvas that's directly connected to the universe. And you can just allow a little bit of, you know, your intuition and your values and the way you see your world to connect with that energy of the universe. And it's like, bam, you come up with new solutions for old problems. And writing is like, just, it's just so critical because it's one of the ways that you practice clarifying your thoughts. Like writing is like really clear thinking. So you can't like take that exercise away from yourself, especially as like a, you know, a creator that a lot of people are depending on.
Speaker 3I know. Yeah. It's a, it's a new, I saw like a creator that I think highly of Hank Green got a lot of crap on the internet for having some, some AI. And I thought he's, you know, I don't feel that that's fair because I think he does incredible work. But I think it's going to happen.
Speaker 2Yeah. And I also think like, you know, people make mistakes. Like it's be cool about it. Like you can't expect someone to be imperfect. And we're literally all learning like this AI moment is hitting the world so hard. And I'm hoping it rebalances our relationship with social media so that we use it a little bit less and we interact more in person. But also like we're all figuring out like, how can you actually make this useful for your business?
Speaker 3Yeah. And read more books. Like this one, which I jokingly told you, I obviously hated because our entire team has been reading it, marking it up. I know I told, I told Colton, one of our producers to just pull some of, of his favorites and this is what he gave me. So this is really useful for
Speaker 2you. That's incredible.
Speaker 3It's literally your entire book.
Speaker 2I got to take a picture of that and just like put it out there.
Speaker 3Yeah, you actually do. But literally we went through and like, you know, even like highlights on the quotes that we love. But I was curious for you. If you had to pick, like, maybe one of your favorite readings from this, which one would it be? Yeah.
Speaker 2First off, I want to tell you a little bit about how the book is structured. Like, this is a year-long journey where you're specifically trying to build self-awareness and inner peace. It's called Journey, The Year That Changes Everything. And to build self-awareness and inner peace, it's not going to happen overnight, right? You're not going to Uber your way over there. You're going to have to take action over action each day. And I wanted to make sure that people could start it any time of the year. So it's not time-based, it's element-based. So it's based on fire, water, air, and earth. And with fire, it's basically actualizing your goals, having the energy to really pursue and, like, make something that's a vision in your mind a real reality. With water, you're doing your best to nourish yourself. With air, you're having clarity and adaptability. And earth is essentially balance. And so I wanted to read something to you that sort of nows that down. So fire helps you find the courage to break away from old patterns. Air invites you to slow down and see yourself clearly. Earth reminds you to build a strong foundation through steady, intentional actions. And water teaches you how to let go, heal, and move forward with greater peace.
Speaker 3I love that. And which one if you had to... Now, I love this because I have read Daily Stoic for years. And I read Chicken Soup for the Soul, you know, back in the day. And I think there's really something special about choosing the words that you start your day with as opposed to getting in-flooded the words that start your day. So if you had to choose, I want you to read yours and then I'll read you one of mine.
Speaker 2Yeah, so five things that drain your energy. Saying yes too often. Doubting your intuition. Not resting enough. Exhausting your nervous system.
Speaker 3Yeah, so that's been all five of those. So we're doing great. So we didn't read that today. We should have. I loved this one. This is Air 90. May you believe in yourself enough to know that you are capable of extraordinary things. And I think sometimes the real truths are a little cheesy, but they aren't when they are true.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. And it's important to, like, embrace the simplicity of it. It's like you don't need too much to push yourself. In the right direction. Like, I think about it as, you know, those astronauts in space that, like, they use the tiniest amounts of air to, like, push themselves and, you know, course adjust. And I think that's really critical. I want to read this piece, Fire 5, for you. The people with the best energy are the ones who never use the hurt they've gone through as an excuse to hurt others. I think that's key. That's key. Like, so much of the hurt that we experience is... It's just replicated from whatever we went through in the past. And that's the mark of a good person. It's like a lot of people have had really challenging moments in their life. But can they take that, learn from it, let it go so that they can produce harmony in their life instead of chaos?
Speaker 3It's such a good point. Also, you know how I know my ego is bad right now? My initial reaction is like, I should send that to a few fuckers. But that is so immediately where it's so, that's so, my God. I need a meditation retreat. But also... Also, I do think it helps, like, one, I don't really love being public on the internet all the time. You know, there's, like, lots of stuff where I'm like, oh, that's interesting. I didn't see myself as a creator or turning into all of this. But I think it teaches you so many lessons about, I mean, can you imagine how miserable and mean we would be if every time somebody said something mean to you on the internet, you let that go back? Or if you responded?
Speaker 2No, I'd rather let them exhaust themselves. You know, like, there's no, why feed into that? And that's one of the things that I've learned from being a creator is that I actually don't know anyone. So I can't make assessments about them, especially quick ones that are based on very little information. So I try to live with a mentality where I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 3Well, I love the new book, Journey, The Year That Changes Everything, 365 Daily Reflections to Build Self-Awareness and Peace. Such a beautiful book. Thank you for doing the hard work of making something really simple, which I think is incredibly important. Difficult, actually. And only giving people what they need and, like, not a thing more. It's something I aspire to do, too. So thank you for being here today and writing it. I know writing books are hard. Yeah.
Speaker 2Especially good ones. Thank you so much.
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