Speaker 1Hello, hello, welcome back to the James Kennedy podcast. How are you doing? You missed me? I know I've taken a few weeks off yet again, haven't I? I don't plan these things, they just happen when life gets in the way. So I hope you don't mind, but I am back with another awesome episode and there will be many more awesome episodes forthcoming. So what's my excuse? Where have I been? What have I been up to? Well, busy as always. You can rest assured that if I'm not doing a podcast, it's not because I'm sitting on my ass smoking a joint somewhere, it's because I'm busy as all hell doing 15 other things. And all of those things will be things that I will share eventually with you gorgeous people. Such as writing the new book, such as writing new material and finishing the acoustic EP, which will be coming out really, really soon. And such as rehearsing with the mighty James Kennedy and the underdogs band, getting gig ready to come and wrestle some eardrums and make some hot sweaty noise on a hot sticky stage somewhere near you sometime really soon. So what's my excuse? Where have I been? Where have I been? Where have I been? Where have I been? Lots of goodies forthcoming. Also, you know, as some of you may know, I've also got PTSD at the moment, which is making my productivity a little bit fragmented, because I'm functioning at about 50% at the moment on a good day, which for someone like me sucks, because I'm used to just smashing it on all ends, you know, 24 seven, I'll sleep when I'm dead sort of thing. But for the first time ever, you know, I now have to factor in self care into my daily schedule as you know, it's a for, you know, retraining my nervous system so that I can start sleeping properly again. So yeah, I have to take frequent timeouts from my busy schedule to do things like meditate and yoga and go outside and get fresh air and things like that. So I hope you don't mind that my productivity is down. And I haven't been posting on social media. And I haven't been releasing, you know, a new album every three months. I hope you don't mind, you know, I hope you understand that it's just because I have to put my own personal physical and mental health first. And I hope you understand that it's just because I have to put my own personal physical and mental health first for the first time in a long time. But I will be back destroying myself in good form really shortly, I hope. And giving you guys a constant stream of fresh content to feast your eyes and ears on. And that kind of ties into the subject that I'm going to be talking about with today's guest. Because as you know, I like to give you guys the honest behind the scenes insight into the true nature of what you know, most musicians daily lives are actually like. I mean, it's cool as entertainers to, you know, entertain, but it's also cool as entertainers to, you know, entertain and create the smoke and mirrors and give everybody some escapism. But at the same time, you know, there are some serious issues within our community of musicians and artists that I think are very important for the audience to be a part of, to be looped into and be part of that conversation. Because we're, you know, we are a community that also includes our audience. Gone are the days of the gatekeepers and good riddance to them. Because today, you know, an artist can have a career with a direct relationship with their fans and their music. And so, you know, I think it's really important to have that kind of connection. And I also think it's healthy for people to talk about these things because, you know, a lot of people are struggling with different things. And I think, you know, the old days when it was a stigma to talk about these things or it was taboo, I don't think that helped. I think it's really helpful and healthy for people to have these kind of conversations and talk about when they're struggling. Because then it can help somebody else out. They can learn from their experiences or it's just good to know that you're not alone, I think, you know. I've talked very openly and honestly about my struggles with mental health and substance abuse and, you know, just trashing myself, basically. And, you know, financial instability and emotional instability many, many times, you know, in my book Noise Damage and on the podcast and in interviews and stuff. I've never really been shy to talk about those things for the aforementioned reasons that I think it's good for the conversation as a whole to do that. My current situation with PTSD, as some of you will know, is not related to those things. You know, I'm in a different place in my life now than I was when I wrote the book. My PTSD situation is not related to the music industry. It's an outside thing, which I'll be able to talk more about when the case has concluded. And I'm hoping to be able to share some of the things that I've been learning through trial and error that's helped me manage and come out the other side, hopefully, when that happens, of that situation. I'll be able to share all that stuff as well, maybe do an episode on that. But today we are keeping it specific to the music industry and the issues within our community, of which there are many. And I'll be talking to the awesome Sarah Woods from the charity Help Musicians. Now, if you haven't already heard of these guys, they are absolutely amazing. And I encourage every musician listening to this to immediately go and check out their website at helpmusicians.org.uk, whereby you will find a ton of resources and links for where you can get help for your mental health or, you know, financial assistance, or just tips and advice on how to navigate this new terrain that we're in with the music business. Absolutely indispensable stuff in an era when more and more musicians are becoming independent and managing their own careers. I think to have an ally like this is absolutely indispensable. And I really wish I'd known about them back in the day when I was doing my thing and struggling and getting screwed over every left, right and center. The charity did exist at that point, but I didn't come across them, which is a real shame because then I would have not fallen into all of the holes that I did. But then again, I wouldn't have got a number one bestselling book out of the story. So, you know, every cloud. But these guys really are doing incredible work. And I'm super excited to find out more about exactly what they do. And to share that info with the musicians listening, and also to give an insight to the music fans listening as to some of the issues that, you know, your favorite bands might be experiencing behind the curtain. But before we jump in, have you subscribed to the podcast? If you haven't, please, please, please do so. This is a free podcast. I don't make any advertising money or take donations or anything like that. All I ask is that you just help a brother out by clicking subscribe, click the rating button, share it, spread the word, tell people to check it out. There's a ton of great information on this podcast about all sorts of things, including the music industry, politics, society, mental health, physical health, all sorts of things. So get involved, check it out. All I'm asking you to do is to give me a subscribe and help kick that algorithm up the ass. Right now, let's get on with it. Joining me today is Sarah Woods from the absolutely brilliant charity and indispensable ally to musicians everywhere, Help Musicians. These guys do incredible work, but I'm going to let Sarah tell you more about that so that she can wallow in the very much deserved kudos of all the wonderful things that they do for the community that I have been a part of for my entire life. So Sarah, thanks so much for joining us today. How are you doing?
Speaker 2I'm good. And James, thank you for your very generous introduction to the charity.
Speaker 1No, not at all. As I said, I'm a big fan of what you guys do. So thank you so much for doing it. We have done a few things in the past. I think you guys may have published a few articles I've written on mental health and stuff in the past in the music business. So thank you for that. But I'm looking forward to finding out more today and sharing that with the listeners. So for those people who don't know anything at all about Help Musicians, can you give us a download on who you are and some of the things that you guys do?
Speaker 2Sure. So Help Musicians is an independent charity for professional musicians across the UK. We also run a mental health charity called Music Minds Matter, and that is available for everyone within the music industry. So we offer a very broad range of support focusing on health and well-being, mental health, but also career development. So we offer funding for times of crisis, particularly financial crisis. We offer grants in terms of career, development and business skills. We run a series of helplines, so whether that's the mental health helpline, we've run a bullying and harassment helpline, and we introduced a new helpline last year to support musicians with inquiries around touring, since that's become more challenging following Brexit. So I'm sure, hopefully, if you visit Help Musicians' website, there's something relevant for every musician at every stage of their career.
Speaker 1Absolutely amazing, man. And it's interesting. If you step outside of it and look at it objectively, it's kind of interesting how an entire industry of people needs a charity to help it with those issues. I mean, before we get into why that is, what are some of the main issues that affect this particular community? Because you don't see any charities that represent mental health interests of, you know, factory workers or something like that, you know. So it's very interesting that this community has the need for this. So what are some of the main issues that affect the musical industry?
Speaker 2So we've been going for 100 years. So, you know, we say musicians' life is precarious, you know, with ups and downs throughout a career. And I think it is, you know, majority of musicians in the UK are freelancers, and developing a sustainable career as a musician can be tough. So the kind of issues that we're trying to design support around are, you know, times of financial crisis, recognising that, particularly after the pandemic, musicians are taking on quite a lot of debt. But also that kind of unpredictability and volatility of sustaining that income can take its toll. And that can take its toll in terms of mentally, but also in terms of physically. So if you're a musician with a career injury, we will support you with whether that's funding or medical support to recover and get back to work. So I think it's just, you know, a precarious career, and one which has many unique challenges, I think, which, which from time to time, unfortunately, mean musicians either need a helping hand or actually some sort of career support to get their career back on track.
Speaker 1Now, 100%. Yeah, I can totally relate to a lot of the things you've described there, unfortunately. And you mentioned that the charity has been around for 100 years. So I'd be really fascinated to ask, I don't know if this is possible to answer, or if there's any data that supports this either way. But we know that the music industry has changed significantly and permanently in the past. past 20 to 30 years but is there do we have data on what the mental health and the financial stability and security of the artistic community was like before that seismic shift before the internet you know back in the in the battle days of gatekeepers and major labels and record deals and things like that because my theory is that it's possibly worse now that we don't have any set structure or any safety net of any kind really and they were all kind of out there on our own you know competing not just with you know the five bands in our hometown but now every band on the planet for um you know space on the internet or whatever so my gut feeling would be that it's possibly worse now in that regard better in many ways and there is more democratized and we all have more opportunities and more control and more freedom but the toll that that takes on us emotionally and financially and in terms of our feelings of security i imagine that those things are worse but i might be wrong do we have any insight or data on that either way
Speaker 2yeah yeah it's a really good question and um before they uh we had our centenary in 2021 and uh one of the projects around our centenary was to to try and delve into the charity's archive to look at what those issues have been over you know 100 years um and we have a wealth of in the olden days um the way the charity used to record its support for musicians were through the development of these little case cards which were little little typed up uh summaries of the needs of the musician and the support that was given and having looked through those that precarity of career um is is is throughout actually so whether that be the 30s or the 50s mental health is a theme um musicians who have um either mental health or addiction issues is also sadly a theme um but that debt that that sense of debt again is always there i think that um on sustainable income which unfortunately from time to time musicians you know need some uh additional financial financial support with just to get themselves into uh into into um you know a position where they can start to grow their career again so i i can't say i think i think that terminology terminology has changed around it so um you know in in in the sort of 30s and 40s they they call you know there's language around nervous disorders and those kind of things right
Speaker 1um but i think i think it's been consistent sadly that is you know both disheartening to hear and also fascinating as well to know that um despite the the shifts that we've had in the industry since you know you mentioned the 30s um that this has been quite a consistent theme in our industry that's that doesn't bode well i don't think um and i suppose there could be an argument to be made for the fact that oftentimes you know substance abuse and you know things like the depression and mental health problems often do come with the both the blessing and the curse of you know having that creative um gift within you you know it does seem to be a common theme but i think it's exacerbated by the way that this industry is set up in such a bizarre way that's very unique yeah and as i said you know my gut instinct would be that it is worse now because there is literally no structure or support system or gatekeepers of any kind at all now we're just social media has a massive impact on everybody's mental health across the board but i think you know when you're a creative freelancer as most of us are now in this community you know you're constantly measuring yourself in comparison to what you think other people are doing on social media which is you know for the most part is bullshit across the board because we all project a version of ourselves which is way more glamorous and successful than is is the reality behind the scenes you know but the fact that that's not the case and that this has been fairly consistent as far back as records can show is both fascinating and depressing but i suppose on the flip side of that there could be an argument for the fact that it's actually better now in the sense that we have these conversations now whereas back in the day it was so much more taboo especially for men to talk about you know mental health struggles and financial instability and insecurity and things like that so the data might not have been as honest back then or as um truly representative of the actual situation whereas now thankfully we're a lot more enlightened and a lot more open about speaking about these things and doing something about it so i suppose i mean it's possible that it may have actually been worse before do you think
Speaker 2and maybe people didn't reach out for help or feel they could reach out for help right i think you know just your question in terms of has it got worse recently so our music minds matter charity um over the last two years we have seen a significant increase in calls to that so that's up 200 actually requests for therapy are up 35 percent um whether that is a backlash from the pandemic so you know we know that from some of our um surveys that we've done from musicians that they're feeling less hopeful about sustaining a career in music um and whether obviously that trying to get out your yourself out of position of debt into an earning position again um you know we know that musicians tend to supplement a lot of them tend to supplement their musical income with other forms of work i was reading the other day um a report from uk music that said they estimate that uh up to a third of freelancers left the industry during the pandemic you know that's true that's that's really going to kind of you know um buy out in a bad way in future years um so we will see i think over the next couple of years we are seeing an increase in support for um our business skills development our touring and live funding which suggests to me that we've got musicians who are still in the industry and they're still in the industry and they're still in the industry and they're still struggling to um get out of the tail of the pandemic and there are others who are now trying to move forward their careers and take advantage of the opportunities in front of them but
Speaker 1need some financial support uh to do that yes interesting isn't it there it's almost as if the aftermath effects of the pandemic are stronger now than they were immediately afterwards there there was a sense of optimism i felt when we came out of the pandemic and the lockdowns and everyone was like right we can play again and every man and his dog was on tour and stuff but the the the ripple effect of that i think is really taking root now bizarrely enough you know two years after it and it is heartbreaking to see some of the best musicians and creators and artists i know you know smashing their hands up on building sites i've mentioned that before um but we all just got in so much debt because you know essentially our livelihood was was just frozen you know for for an unknown amount of time and it's i think it's interesting that what is what that tells me is that this industry is structured in such a way that it's not able to absorb any kind of shocks like that i mean i know it was a very particular time and a very specific set of you know unprecedented circumstances but i think it takes extreme and extraordinary times to really highlight and expose the true nature of something and i think what it what it showed us is that we are just not prepared for any disturbance to the normal way of doing things and that's why all of these things that you've mentioned you know the mental health the financial insecurity the pessimism the lack of hope to take in you know day jobs to supplement our incomes and things and the debt you know that's why we have all these things and it's just insane that the the main foot soldiers of the industry you know the creators the artists the people that write the songs and play the songs you know the the main cogs of the of this entire industry are just not being looked after in any way shape at all by the structure of the industry yeah so is this something about is it a structural thing is it something just to do with the way the industry has been traditionally developed or is it something else why is it so prevalent in this
Speaker 2business in particular well i mean i think the life of a freelancer in particular is is is significantly influenced by change um and over the last few years we've seen covid we've seen brexit yes uh we've seen increased costs in terms of you know your ability to make a profit we've seen changes in your income um so i think at the moment there is definitely a kind of myriad of issues that are all kind of a perfect storm of creating you know some major challenges so i feel in particular that that issues around mental health and career stability are more acute at the moment because of those changes which are influencing um the predictability of being able to sustain a career right whether the industry itself you know if you if you step back from that is um is part of that i don't know i think you know in every industry where you have um complexity and lack of structures um even trying to get into this industry you know one of the things that we're seeing is if you're a musician who's sort of at the early part of your career what does the kind of sustainable career in music look like you know it's hard to map out so that that visibility you know connectivity we're seeing as a key issue for musicians that you know free it can be quite a lonely life often and actually when you're able to bring people together and say actually you know what there are a number of you experiencing the same challenges so what's one of the things help musicians has done more of over the last couple of years is bring musicians together in peer-to-peer support sessions to focus on mental health and well-being uh to try and you know a shared issue and some connectivity going forward and mentoring hopefully might
Speaker 1might support in the right way that makes a lot of sense yeah another thing like I've noticed is it seems to me from a personal experience, And just the conversations I've had with artists and performers over the years, you know, all levels of the industry, that these issues that you've described, they're actually universal. And they don't necessarily go away with success, you know, which is what I always imagined would happen, you know, in my sordid career was that once we get to the top of that mountain, it's all going to be a lot easier. And, you know, we'll have support behind us and, you know, we'll have less burnout and, you know, it'll be awesome. And it seems to me from the conversations I've had some on the podcast and some, you know, privately, that that is not the case. It seems to be that these are universal themes, you know, throughout the entire food chain of this industry from top to bottom. And this was brilliantly and brutally portrayed in the book that I've spoken about many a times on the podcast, you know, the book Bodies by Ian Winwood, where just the sheer level of lack of care and concern for the artists, you know, well-known artists on major labels was just absolutely flabbergasting. But I do feel that this is... It's slowly changing for the better as a result, you know, of work by groups such as Help Musicians and, you know, the general opening up of the narrative around mental health and the value of art and the people that make it. I do see some signs of change in the right direction and a general shift in values happening in the industry for the better. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2Yeah, I do agree with that. And the reason I say that we ran our first mental health summit, which we invited lots of people across the music industry to last year. And a number of the major labels came and actually shared some of the things that they're doing now within their organizations to promote better mental health and well-being. So I do agree with what you've just said, that there is now, I think, more of an engagement in the issue and a recognition that touring in particular, you know, is emotionally and physically, you know, taxing. There's someone called Tasman Emma. And actually, who's just written a great book on touring and mental health. So if you're interested in that, it's a really great resource for how to support musicians and some of the insights about around those challenges. And I saw her tweet the other day that Live Nation had bought 3000 copies of the book, which, again, is a really positive sign to show that those who can make a difference, particularly around touring, are engaging in how they might do so. So I think that's a really positive step.
Speaker 1100 percent. Yeah. And I've always been quite critical of the. You know, the mainstream industry machinery. I've always been a big proponent of, you know, the independent model, because that's the one that I've always operated within. And obviously, you know, that wasn't available to us not so long ago. You know, so it is kind of like this new democratization, this new empowerment that artists have got, whereby if you can't get a deal or if you don't want to get a deal, you want to cut your own path or you want to do things yourself. You know, the tools and the opportunities are now available, which is amazing. But what comes with that is all the burden and the pressure. It is on you to understand business, to understand marketing, to understand distribution, to manage your social media. And also, you know, you are now in direct competition with the rest of the world. You know, it's like, how do you get heard above the noise of everybody else doing that is a question that I've asked many times on this podcast to all sorts of people from different industries. And it is the question, isn't it? It's like we are all battling against the absolute monsoon of content that is that is saturating and inundating all of us 24 seven. So it is a brave new world and it's great to have, you know, the empowerment and the tools and the opportunities that we've got. But also there is a whole host of new pressures and new stresses that come with that.
Speaker 2You know, I think that's a really good point. And, you know, you see more and more independent musicians carving their own career, which is brilliant in terms of, you know, control and, you know, mapping out your own path in a way that is right for you. But with. With that comes that responsibility of decision making and you're trying to do different things, you're trying to promote yourself, you're trying to market yourself, you're trying to create, you're managing your own business. So there's a there's a lot to juggle in, you know, and and I think that's partly why we see some of the challenges that we see that that juggling can take its toll. Unfortunately, if it's not if it's not something that people keep the right balance on in particular, you talk about social media. You know, you're building your brand. There's so much to juggle as an independent artist. So we at Help Musicians hopefully can support you with some elements of that at the right time. So do feel free to ring anybody in our musicians engagement team at any time and talk where you are in your career and what we might do to help you.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's absolutely indispensable because more and more artists these days are doing all of the things you just mentioned. And it's a 24 hour job. And most of those things we don't know what we're doing and we can do the music stuff just fine. That's our natural habitat. But the social media, the marketing, the financial management, you know, you're doing all of your own heavy lifting and everything as well and driving and band management. And it's 24 seven. And yeah, that that combined with the pressure of the social media and, you know, the comparison thing that I mentioned earlier as well. It's a lot to have you guys as an ally is absolutely indispensable. So I hope that more more musicians will reach out and check out the amazing resources on the site because the website is brilliant as well. A lot of the. You know, the funding opportunities and information and mental health platforms and stuff that you've got there as well for help is absolutely an indispensable tool, particularly at this time now when more and more musicians are essentially sole traders, freelancers doing this by themselves. You know, we need we need what you guys do.
Speaker 2It treats us like a friend.
Speaker 1Love it. Love it. And what a friend to have. So thank you, man. And the other friends that bands and artists have as well, of course, are their fans. One of the other beautiful benefits that we have now of this new model I described earlier is. You know, that direct relationship that artists can now have directly with their fans, which is another source of great, you know, reciprocal support. So what are your thoughts on some ways that fans listening to this can directly support, you know, the bands and artists that they love? Because I think more and more people are becoming more aware and more enlightened now as to the actual harsh realities that go on, you know, behind the smoke and mirrors behind the curtain, you know, bands essentially living out of a van and showering in car parks and all that sort of stuff. And living on pot noodles, you know, and making, you know, negative money, if any. I think more and more people are becoming attuned to that reality now. And of course, you know, people want to help and everybody loves music. They want to help particularly the bands and the artists that they love. So what can people do, in your opinion, to directly support and help the artists that they love?
Speaker 2So now is more important than ever to buy their music, buy the merchandise. Go on social media and encourage them to continue going. And one piece of research Help Musicians did last year was around the value of music to the public. And it was so positive to see how much the public appreciate music. Almost half of the population cite music and their taste in music as being part of their DNA. And I know at the moment that people have to make difficult decisions around how they spend their time. How they spend their money. But if you love that artist, do, you know, make it your special night out. Go and see them. Because it will both give them the encouragement to keep on going. But also financially, it's really needed now more than ever.
Speaker 1100% agree with that. Yeah. And you've made me just remember a conversation I had with Mark David from the Music Venue Trust as well. Because I think a part of this is the smaller venues as well, the grassroots venues, isn't it? Because, you know, without them, you know, these are the venues that most musicians are playing in. They're not playing in the arenas, you know. I think more and more artists, like 99%, I would say, are probably playing in the sort of venues that are also being affected by this. Because, as you said earlier, the live circuit has taken a massive shock as well since COVID. So I think another thing people can do is start going to local shows. It's cheaper for a start. And hell knows we all need that right now. And you're directly supporting, you know, the breeding ground that is enabling many musicians to get out. And actually do their thing. So get out to a show, you know, buy some merch, shout about it on social media, you know, just basically get involved. And it's a lot more fun that way to be directly involved in the artists rather than watching them from row 153 at the arena, I think. Maybe I'm biased.
Speaker 2There's nothing, nothing beats a live performance. And MVT do a great job of championing, you know, grassroots venues and, you know, with the costs at the moment, you know, it is. It's tough. So support your local venue. I remember when I grew up in Liverpool and one of my most, you know, one of my most greatest memories of my sort of teenage years was going out to gigs, you know, in the center of the city. And nothing can beat it. So, you know, if you can, do go out and support your favorite artists.
Speaker 1100%. And before I come on to the amazing work, I mean, you've mentioned some of the great things that you guys do already. But I want to round up by just giving it to. Yeah, everybody in one go. So they know what it is you guys do and that there is hope out there and there is help out there. Before we do that, I want to ask you, are you hopeful that the future is going to get better? Are you still seeing major obstacles and resistance or roadblocks ahead? Or are you hopeful that this is going to get better?
Speaker 2I am hopeful and I'm hopeful because, you know, as I was just saying, music is hugely valuable in our society. And I think. I wish the government would do more to support it. I think, you know, particularly issues around Brexit. might start to have some sort of resolution. But music has been part of our society and part of our DNA as a country for so many years that I am hopeful. I think it's going to continue to be tough for a year or so at least. But I do think it will hopefully, you know, get better over the coming years. And one of the things I've seen actually in terms of the music industry following the pandemic is organisations collaborate more and come together. And I think that's been one of the positive steps from the pandemic that more organisations that have voices or can do things to influence change are coming together to pull their voices and influence to make a difference.
Speaker 1Yeah, I totally agree with that. I definitely think that the conversation is a lot less taboo now. It's a lot more commonplace to have these types of conversations. And I think that is exactly what you just described. And I think help musicians are a massive part of that. I mean, you guys have been at the game a long time. You have a very broad range of interests and services that you guys cover. I get a lot of hope from that as well. I mean, just to know that all those years that I struggled when I was unaware of you guys, you know, struggled, you know, financially and emotionally and went through some really dark times carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders or so I thought, I could have just reached out to you guys. And it's so great now to know that the, you know, the bands that are starting out now, you know, in this very unpredictable and volatile environment that they're coming into have got such a great friend in help musicians. So I'd like to shine a light now on some of the things just to remind people, because you've mentioned some of it already, but just to sort of encapsulate what it is you guys do and what people can get, you know, when they come to you guys for help. What are some of the areas and the main sort of services that you guys operate within?
Speaker 2So we offer a number of different things depending on where you are with your career. So from a health side of things, we offer a hearing health service, which gives custom fitted attenuators to musicians at significantly discounted costs. So if you haven't sorted out decent hearing protection, do look that up and do something around that. On the career development side, we offer record and release funding. We offer skills and professional development support with up to one and a half thousand pounds there to enhance skills or artistic practice. We also offer support in terms of touring and live. And on the well-being side, there are lots of resources to support musicians to look after their mental health through our Music Minds Matter website. So there's a huge range there of things, whether you're wanting to invest in your career, look after your well-being, or invest in better mental health.
Speaker 1Well, can you tell us a bit more about Music Minds Matter in particular? Because obviously mental health is a significant part of your career. It's a serious problem in our industry right now. So it'd be good to let people know more about that. It's a 24-7 helpline, is that right?
Speaker 2That's right. So for anyone working in the music industry, we have a 24-7 helpline where you get to speak to a trained counsellor. And we also offer a website called Music Minds Matter Explore with lots of videos on it around particular issues that you can learn more about, whether that's stress or anxiety, or well-being. So that's worth a look as well in terms of learning more about both how to protect your mental health, but if you're feeling a certain way and you want to learn more about how others have dealt with that, then that's a great resource also.
Speaker 1That's so cool, man. Yeah, it's so invaluable and so important that we've got this ally on our side and this friend on our side as we navigate these new uncertain and uncharted terrains, you know? And I notice as well that you do release funding for certain things. What's the situation with that? Is that an ongoing thing or is that sort of like a seasonal thing? How does that work?
Speaker 2So we opened a winter support fund last year for musicians that we knew were going to really struggle due to the rising costs. And through that scheme, we've paid out about £400,000 now. So for musicians who are really struggling financially, that support is available. So Ringar Musicians Engaged and they can talk you through what might be available to you given your financial situation. But also if you're somebody that's nursing a kind of a career injury or worried about something like RSI, we again do give us a ring and we can talk about how we might help you look after your physical well-being as well. So there's both financial support in terms of crisis, but also financial support for career development too.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's absolutely brilliant, man. I mean, do you feel the warm sense of reward in the work that you do as well? Or are you like many other people that I've asked that question to in this podcast who do similar great work in other fields where they're just more focused on what's yet to be done?
Speaker 2I think, look, when we hear from musicians that we've made a difference, that boosts the whole team. It really does. We employ people that care passionately about music and are working for the charity because they want to make a difference. And so, of course, we're pleased when we feel that we've made a positive impact to somebody. We're also a team that's always thinking though, right, what do we need to do next? So we have a vision to create a world where musicians thrive. So it's not just about supporting musicians in times of crisis. It's about ensuring musicians across the UK can really have a successful and sustainable career. And given what we've talked about earlier, there's definitely a lot more to do on that. So, we are thinking about what we can do in the next five years to make more of a difference.
Speaker 1Brilliant. Well, thank God we've got you. It's so reassuring and so important that we've got you on our side. And it's one of the cliches of our industry, unfortunately, that it's only ever the artists who get all the applause and appreciation. So, whilst the poor roadies are lugging all the equipment behind the scenes. So on behalf of all of us musicians and the wonderful dysfunctional community that I'm a part of, I'd like to extend those thanks and that applause to yourself and everyone involved that helped musicians for being there for us and for everything that you guys do. So, thank you.
Speaker 2Thanks, James. That's really appreciated. Can I also say thank you to you because talking about those challenges, talking about some of the issues that are challenges is really important too and it encourages others to keep going. So, thanks to you also for shining a spotlight on those issues. It really does help, I think.
Speaker 1Oh, yeah, 100%. No, I totally agree with you. I think it's healthy, especially, unfortunately, for men still. There's still, there's kind of outdated idea that men aren't allowed to talk about these things. You know, I think it's, just put it out there, man, because it's good to talk and it's good for everyone involved. You know, and little by little, the more people talk openly about these things, the better we can make things change. And especially for people in positions of success to be open and honest about their struggles and their journey, I think it's helpful because it helps those artists coming up behind them to know that it's not just them and they can learn then from the mistakes of those that went before them. You know, I mean, we are a community and we've got to help each other out, man, you know?
Speaker 2Exactly. Completely agree. Couldn't have said it better.
Speaker 1So how can we help you guys then? Because you said that you are a charity. So I'm assuming then that you stay afloat on public donations. How can people actually help and support you guys?
Speaker 2We are a charity and we do rely on public donations. Music Minds Matter this year will cost 1.3 million. That's a record spend. And, you know, that's something at that level we can't continue to spend indefinitely. So if you are in a position to support the charity, we'd love to hear from you, whether that's in terms of money or advocacy for what we do or helping spread the word. Do look at our website and see how you can potentially support in terms of time or advocacy or in any way. That's hugely appreciated.
Speaker 1Brilliant. Yeah. Well, I'm sure you're going to get a lot of love because one thing that we can, I think, always rely upon in our industry, no matter how hard it gets, is everybody loves music. That's not going to go away. So, you know, if you want to keep musicians afloat, then you've got to not just help and support them directly in the ways that Sarah mentioned earlier, but also, you know, you've got to help and support, help musicians. We need those guys more than ever right now. So if you can spare a few shekels, I know everybody's struggling right now, then please do donate and help these guys who are doing such great work to support my community. So please go on the website and check that out. I'm assuming they can donate there. And speaking of the website and links, where can people find you?
Speaker 2So we are Help Musicians. So type that into Google and we'll come up. And everything that we offer in terms of our range of support and the ability to donate is all through that website. So do go and have a look. And if you've got some questions when you've looked at the website, do ring on Musicians Engagement Team. That team is available throughout the day, ready to talk to people about where they are within their career and what we can offer to support. So do. Pick up the phone. Often it's difficult with a website to get a clear sense of whether in terms of eligibility or what's the right fit for you. So do give the team a call and they're there to help.
Speaker 1100%. And the website is helpmusicians.org.uk You're all over social media as well. It's Help Musicians UK on Facebook and Help Musicians on Twitter and Instagram. So there's no excuse. They're everywhere. Get in touch. Do check them out. The website is amazing. there's so much stuff on there. If you're a musician, and you know you you feel like you're overwhelmed or you're in a corner you're not you're not on your own these guys are there to help and support you so please check out the website at help musicians.org.uk and if you're in any position at all to support these guys directly then please also go to the website and make a small donation if you can afford to do so to to help them continue with their amazing amazing work sarah thanks so much for joining us today i really appreciate you taking time away from your busy and an awesome work to uh to speak today it's been fascinating
Speaker 2thanks james it's been a pleasure and a privilege it's been lovely to talk to you and thanks so
Speaker 1much anytime you're welcome anytime and um yeah hopefully we'll see you again soon so thanks so much for joining us and uh enjoy the rest of your weekend i hope you're getting some time away from the busy work and hopefully we'll see you at a show sometime soon that'd be great thanks james thanks sarah bye-bye thank you bye-bye here you go guys what do you think of that interesting stuff right i mean i thought when she mentioned that this goes right right back to the 30s and exactly the same then that was a bit of a mind blow for me because i i assumed that it would just be way worse now so yeah that was really interesting i hope you also enjoyed the conversation i know i did uh if you are a musician and you're not currently getting any assistance from help musicians please do check out their website there's no point suffering in silence you know we've got stuff available now that we didn't have back in the day you know so take advantage of it their website is helpmusicians.org.uk they're on facebook at help musicians uk and twitter and instagram at help musicians uk and they're on facebook at help musicians uk and they're on check out the website if you need to call anybody they've got the music minds map helpline there as well you know if you're struggling with your mental health they can give you financial advice of career advice it's such an awesome awesome tool to have access to definitely please take advantage of it there's a lot of people working very hard to make it happen so you know it's there for you to take advantage of so go and do it and as i said if you are able to support the work of the charity you know please do donate every little really does help and if you're a music fan hopefully these videos will help you and i'll see you in the next video these conversations just give you more of an insight into the sort of you know the realities and the struggles that you know your favorite artists may be going through that your favorite artists probably are going through because as i said you know this this goes right to the top of the food chain you know so i'm not trying to take any of the glamour or the shine away from you know the entertainment value of what we do but you know there are people behind that as well who you know who need the same support and structure that everyone else does and our industry does seem to be disproportionately affected by the fact that we're not able to do that and we're not able to do that and we're not able to do that and we're not able to do that and we're not able to do that by these issues so i think the more people are aware of it and the more artists to speak openly about it we can start to prepare some of the reasons why that happens so i hope you enjoyed the conversation and if you haven't yet subscribed to the podcast please do so right now um give me a star rating you know give me a like give me a share do whatever you can to do your part to help me with this podcast and i'm going to clock out now because like i said i am struggling a little bit with ptsd at the moment which means that my my stamina is not what it once was and i'm going to clock out but i will be back next week with a brand new episode with another fantastically awesome guest and another issue to delve into so thanks for all your support thanks for listening get involved and i'll see you next time
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