Speaker 1Hey, what's up? Welcome back to the James Kennedy podcast. What's been happening? Hope you're all feeling awesome and chilled and low stress. And if you're not, fear not, because I got you covered. Today, we're going to be talking all about something that I've tried and failed at many, many times, but something that when I actually put in the effort and stick with it, has always had a profound impact on my mental health, my stress and anxiety, and my clarity of thought. But the problem for me is I'm a naturally high stress dude who lives a very fast paced life and is constantly juggling way too many different plates at the same time. And I make very little time, if any, for that essential self-care and recharge time. Sound familiar? And then the meditation or yoga or exercise regimen or eating healthy or whatever it is, gets gradually pushed further and further out of my life as I blast on face first towards my own inevitable destruction. Now, we had James Watt from BrewDog on last week, who spoke very strongly about the importance of making time for self-care in whatever form it takes for you, and how rather than hindering his stressful role as a successful CEO, it is actually paramount to improving it. And if he can find time to do these things, then surely I, and I'm guessing most of you, can also do so as well. So this week, we're focusing on the aforementioned meditation baby. As I said, I personally find it practically impossible, but in those times when I've really stuck with it, the effects have been absolutely undeniable. I've slept better, I've been calmer, my mental health has been better, my mood has been lifted, and I've got way more mental clarity, and I've worked better and worked faster. So why oh why do I keep falling off the wagon, I hear you ask? I got no idea. But I am desperate to climb back on the saddle, and get back in the zen zone, because I really, really need it right now. So today, we're going to get into exactly what is meditation, how does it work, why does it work, why most of you definitely need it, and what you can do to get started. Now, as you know, I don't mess around on this podcast, right? So if you know, if I'm going to do something, we're going straight to the top, right? So if we're going to talk about meditation, we're going to do it with the best in the land. So we are extremely lucky to be joined today by Mr. Bob Roth, not only a man who has personally taught meditation to thousands and thousands, in all walks of life around the world, from military vets and school children to celebrities like Tom Hanks, Hugh Jackman, Oprah Winfrey, and Russell Brand. But he's also the executive director of the renowned David Lynch Foundation for Transcendental Meditation, a best-selling author on the subject, a podcast host on the subject, a charity director, and one of the most sought-after meditation teachers in the Western world. So do not tell me that I am not good to you guys. Bob, this is a real honor. Thanks so much for doing this, man. How are you
Speaker 2doing? I'm good. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1Oh, you're too kind. And welcome anytime, of course, Bob. Well, I know I don't have you for as long as I would like to today, so I'm just going to jump straight in and get down to business, if that's okay with yourself. Let's go for it. Awesome. Well, I suppose we should establish at the start that you specialize in a form of meditation called Transcendental Meditation. So I think it would be good to set the stage here at the start of the conversation to establish for the listener who doesn't know anything about this at all, what is Transcendental Meditation? And what are the benefits that it brings to the people who practice it?
Speaker 2Well, it's a simple, natural, effortless technique. This is just nuts and bolts here. Practice for about 15 to 20 minutes twice a day, sitting comfortably in a chair with your eyes closed. And during that 20-minute period, according to science, your active thinking mind, noisy active thinking mind, has a chance to settle down inward to a state of inner calm, and equanimity. At the same time, your body, because they're so connected, gets a state of rest deeper than the deepest part of deep sleep. And that deep rest, according to science, is miraculous. It reduces stress, anxiety, depression, burnout. It promotes resilience, better health, focus, creativity. That's why all the people that you were mentioning and the 10 million others practice TM for its very real benefits.
Speaker 1Yeah, well, I can vouch for that personally, from my own experience, 100%. And it's good to know that I think it's becoming more popular now. I think more people are open to the concept of meditation. It's not seen as such a kind of taboo or esoteric kind of concept anymore, thanks to the popularization of meditation apps and things like that. But how does the ancient form of Transcendental Meditation that you specialize in differ from some of these more increasingly popular types of meditations, such as, you know, breathwork and guided meditations?
Speaker 2Or mindfulness or Vipassana or any of the, you know, that are out there. Right. Well, it's a wonderful question. And I want to step back for a second and just sort of give a model or an example of the mind and what the different meditations do. So I like to think of you're on a little boat, you're in the middle of the North Atlantic Ocean. And all of a sudden, you get huge waves, 20 foot waves, you're a little boat, you could look up and see these giant waves. And you could think, Oh, my God, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, whole ocean is in upheaval. But it's not really true, because if you did a cross-section of the ocean out there, you'd realize, okay, the waves are 20 feet high, the ocean is miles deep, and at the depth of the ocean, it's pretty darn calm. So, use that as analogy to the mind, the surface of the mind, the waves, the torrential waves. Some people call it the monkey mind. I like to call it the gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta mind. So, I gotta do this, and I gotta do that, and I gotta call him, and I gotta call her, and I gotta make a list, and I gotta find the list, and I gotta make a new list, and I gotta get to sleep, and I gotta get... It's all the gotta's, and everybody's got that. And so, it's a natural desire. I am going to answer your question about meditation in a minute. I just want to put this in perspective, because it'll do a better job of answering. So, enter the field of meditation. Everybody wants inner calm. Everybody wants inner equanimity, inner power, inner creativity. But so, there's different meditations, and there's tons of different meditations. But according to science, research on all the different meditations, it comes down to basically three, James. Okay. Are you still with me, or is this too long of an answer? No, 100%. I'm loving it. Okay. Okay. So, it's, you know, it's... So, three basic meditations, and they look at it by measuring brainwave patterns, what's going on in the brain through MRI scans and EEG. And the three the first of the three is something called focused attention. And that's where, okay, you got a monkey mind, your mind is filled with thoughts, so you focus. You focus your attention on your breath. You focus your attention on some part of your body. You focus your attention on a mantra, a sound. The idea is just focus. And when we do that, to try and clear the mind of thoughts, it's actually a very difficult thing to do. Yeah. But what the research shows is it creates something called gamma brainwaves. And gamma is 20 to 50 cycles per second. Working really hard, fast, hard, hard, hard. Second type is called open monitoring. Many mindfulness techniques are like this. Many breathwork techniques are like this. Open monitoring teaches us to dispassionately observe our thoughts and our moods and our feelings. We're not trying to push them out, just dispassionately observe them. Don't be in the past when, if you know a guy named Joe, and 10 years ago, Joe did, done you wrong, and now he's coming to town. Well, that's not a good thing. That's not a good thing. That's not a good thing. That's not 10 years ago. Be in the present moment. And in the present moment is an equanimity. There's no equanimity in the past, and it's just worry in the future, in the present moment. And so that is open monitoring, and that's another group of meditation techniques. Those are both called, I'm giving you a mini masterclass here. Those are both called cognitive approaches to meditation. Cognitive means pertaining to your thoughts, your moods, your feelings, pertaining to the waves. Stop the waves. The third is transcendental meditation. Now James gets an answer to his question. The third is transcendental meditation. In transcendental meditation, the word transcend means go beyond. And in transcendental meditation, we recognize that you, all of us, have a vertical dimension to our mind. We feel things deeply. We love deeply. We get hurt deeply. We also have an intuition. Somebody says, James, I got a great idea where you should put your money into the this. And it sounds great, and then you're with yourself quietly, and you go, I don't think so, Jack. And he asks why. He says, it doesn't feel right. So that's a deeper level of the mind. In transcendental meditation, far beyond, far deeper than that. There's a level of our mind that's already perfectly calm, expanded, unbounded, the source of our creativity, the source of our energy. This is what they say in the books. So transcendental meditation doesn't care about the waves. It doesn't try to stop thoughts. It goes to the source of thoughts. And when that happens, we have something called alpha-1 brainwaves, completely different to what you see from others. And I said, your body gains a state of rest deeper than sleep, according to research at Harvard. And then a whole galaxy of benefits that are wonderful for not just surviving life, but thriving in life, more than you see with any of the other meditations. I'm not putting them down. They all have their purpose, and people love them, but the research stands pretty strong. Awesome. I appreciate that wonderful
Speaker 1explanation. And a tour of all the different types of meditations there, Bob. I really appreciate that. And that makes a lot of sense. You mentioned the galaxy of benefits as well, that TM, short for transcendental meditation, brings to the person practicing it. Could we list some of that galaxy and jump into that ocean of consciousness that you mentioned there and explain what exactly does it bring to people's life as a result of even short-term practice?
Speaker 2Well, so you have on the phone a guy who loves meditation. science. I mean, I love everything, art, music, and everything but science and because i'm by nature a fairly skeptical person yeah and so i you know i don't want to just just because some branding agency came along and said something is great i want to show me the evidence before i do it and the research on transcendental meditation showed one thing that's very important if your listeners or any of us have degrees of anxiety in our life about things we all do anxiety is driven by a hormone called cortisol yeah and cortisol is secreted in the adrenal glands that sit on top of the kidneys whenever we're under pressure anxiety and cortisol shuts has a very bad effect shuts almost too much of it shuts down the immune system that's why if a person's sick they're more likely to get i mean if a person's stressed they're more likely to get sick so if you get a good night's sleep cortisol too much of a bad thing drops 10 percent in 20 minutes of tm cortisol levels drop 30 to 40 percent wow wow and that is huge because nothing else does that other research shows we're doing research right now with veterans and who have ptsd and there's a huge amount of research showing that tm is excellent antidote for veterans and first responders and actually anybody all of your listeners who have ever had traumatic experiences in their past and that traumatic experience continues to haunt them tm is incredibly effective for reducing and healing trauma on the other side of the coin um there's studies that show increased creativity in the creative process the creative process isn't just having good ideas as you know it's the ability to take those ideas and make them happen a lot of people could say i'm going to start a podcast but look what you're doing james you started you know you started a podcast a lot of work to do it but that's the creative process is both the innovative idea and the ability to focus to make it happen and so there's a lot of research on tm for enhancing creativity intelligence and the ability to focus and i'll say one last thing and also second last thing um there's a hundred million americans in america with high blood pressure the numbers are probably just as high in the uk high blood pressure and you can take medicines and it just and it saves lives but it doesn't stop it doesn't get to the root cause so the national institutes of health and the u.s has given 26 million dollars to study the effects of tm on high blood pressure and you know the results are amazing and i think in a couple of years we're going to have our national health insurance is going to cover tm and reimburse for it for all these different benefits
Speaker 1that's incredible yeah i mean i mean you mentioned cortisol there i mean cortisol is a killer because you know cortisol is the um the catalyst to so many other illnesses and problems and stresses within the body and the mind you know which which can lead to a whole lot of problems all range of physical illnesses and cancers and all sorts of things so so that reduction in cortisol
Speaker 2there is massive across the whole health spectrum isn't it oh yeah absolutely i mean i i really think there's such a change going on in the health care system right now they they have to move away and and and insurance companies you know in the u.s we have a lot of private insurers and also medic medicare which is a national insurance um the uh they're going through a huge change because modern medicine doesn't understand the cause of so many mental health issues right so many people suffering from anxiety depression insomnia burnout and and then it goes further bipolar disorder the eating disorders they don't know that they don't it's called pathology they don't understand the cause if you don't understand the cause foundationally then you can't have a you know a solution like we know that if i if i cut my arm and it gets infected they know what that is the germs and there's bacteria and i got an infection and i get antibiotics well if a person is depressed they don't know they really don't know the cause and so and so they throw a lot of money at different pills and it helps some people but not everybody so here comes along transcendental meditation simple technique not pharmacological non-invasive anyone can do it a few minutes in the morning and a few minutes in the afternoon and it has a galaxy of benefits not just it doesn't just reduce high blood pressure and that's it reduce as i said reduces high blood pressure burnout anxiety all in one shot so it's a new time that's coming and it's not long before tm and other evidence-based uh non-integrative practices are part of the health care system because the current
Speaker 1one is bankrupting everybody oh 100 yeah could you imagine if they had this in schools you know i've often thought that so many societal and personal problems could probably be dealt with better in school you know for many kids unfortunately school is the safest place that they've got you know there may be trauma at home so i think to be taught this tool at such a developmental age could probably nip in the bud so many psychological and as a result you know physical problems that whether we like it or not affect all of us in society
Speaker 2there's a lot of i mean there's a lot of schools in the u.s and i imagine also in the uk that are incorporating some forms of meditation or breathing or something because if a person is 26 or 27 and they start showing signs of bipolar disorder it started when they were five or six right it didn't just you know bang and so those ages those developmental ages are crucial to give them something to manage and deal with the 24 7 they feel it too social media bullying online i mean it's a it's a i'll tell you something that's pretty shocking the fastest rise of numbers of of people going to emergency rooms with suicide suicidality threats of suicide the fastest growth rate children 5 to 11 wow children 5 to 11 i i could not believe it like when i was a little kid yeah i'm gonna go out and play kickball or basketball whatever spend the night at joey's house now it's a different world and girls in particular the high levels of stress in their early teens it's frightening we're in we're in danger of losing a generation to stress oh right yeah you're right and meditation and i think they're starting to recognize you can't ignore it we're going to give everybody um medicine you know valium every child valium it's not sustainable it's not scalable it's not humane so it's not long before you're going to see tm and other other techniques being made available
Speaker 1in the schools to save the children wow that is staggering man i had no idea that that was a situation um and it's fascinating to me that one of the more effective tools that we have in the fight against some of the things you just mentioned is this practice that has been around for i mean
Speaker 2am i wrong thousands of years is that right over six over 6 000 years old yeah predates buddhism predates judaism predates hinduism predates everything i mean as is yoga yoga is also predates it's not like you had to be a buddhist or a hindu to do yoga it was long before that stretching transcending it was just accessible and then religions come along whatever and then they may incorporate it into their practice into their religious belief it's something useful just like a religion could say that you need to do jumping jacks or x you know doesn't make jumping jacks religious catholic it's just a technique so that's what happened with meditation it got it degrees of it got adopted around a religion but in and of itself has nothing to do with religion it's just a tool
Speaker 1that's a great point to point out as well because i approached um transcendental meditation when i did my um training in it with the same level of skepticism that you um alluded to earlier i'm from a scientific interest background i mean i consider myself to be an atheist and i was a little bit put off by what i consider to be some of the religious aspects surrounding it but that was just down to my own misinformation as soon as i got into it i realized exactly what you said that this is this is a powerful tool that is um not aligned with any kind of belief system or anything like that so for people listening to this who may have been following me on social media or on social media or on social media or on social media or on following into the same misinterpretation as myself this is as you just said it's not connected to any kind of faith or belief system this is just a practical tool that as you said can bring you
Speaker 2that galaxy of benefits yeah and 10 million people of all religions have learned it all educational backgrounds all cultures and what i love is the work that we're trying we're doing right now to get insurance companies to reimburse for tm so that any you know a mom who's on welfare single mom she goes to her doctors you got two kids stressed out of her mind the doctor can say well you know i can give you uh you know this valium this anti anti-anxiety medication and i can also give you a prescription for you to learn tm right that will be so great because some people don't want to live their life on drugs i think one of the interesting things is i've received calls from some of the top pharmaceutical firms in the u.s wanting to offer tm to their employees for the stress because it's it's so all pervasive right now it's just all pervasive and it's not going away i also tell people i say you know maybe 20 years ago the idea of taking 20 minutes out to do tm to meditate was a luxury you know for rich people or something it's not a luxury anymore it's it's an essential tool in your toolbox to not just as they say survive but actually thrive and uh it's it's just it's It's not long before it's widely available. It's not long. I call it the democratization of meditation. Everybody should have equal access to these tools. This is not just for somebody who can do this or that. Everybody should have equal access. It'll make a huge difference.
Speaker 1Well, I think, yeah, it's exactly what you said. We're living through a growing stress epidemic at the moment, which causes a whole spiral of other physical and mental illnesses and ills in society at large. And it all comes down to the growing stress that we're feeling. You know, times are hard at the moment and getting harder. So to have this tool that's so powerful available to us, I think, is a real gift. And it's ironic that we're coming back to something, a practice that has been around for thousands of years in the modern age, isn't it? You mentioned yoga as well. I find that quite interesting. So just to remind people.
Speaker 2And there's research on, there's research, there's also research on some Chinese medicine. There's research. Really? It's just they knew, they knew a lot way back when.
Speaker 1They knew. They knew a lot. That's interesting. Well, Chinese medicine still falls into the camp that I described earlier, where I treat it with some skepticism. Am I wrong in that as well?
Speaker 2Oh, no, you should be. That's fine. I'm just talking about there's research now on aspects of Chinese medicine. There's research on aspects of Ayurveda, which goes back to, you know, the Vedic with yoga. Just research. I don't adopt or believe just everything wholesale altogether, but there's elements of something that they knew. Right. And the same with Chinese medicine. There's some research showing that some of the herbal compounds can work more effectively than our high-tech medicines. Because ultimately, what the human body is the same human body for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. And thousands of years ago, maybe that, you know, they're growing their foods without pesticides and all that stuff. And we grow with it with so much of that now. And our human body can't metabolize. It can't just process it. So I think a lot of. Some of the diseases is can be due to just not the body doesn't know how to handle these medicines. The body doesn't know how to handle these, these, these chemicals. And so we can look back to Ayurveda or Chinese medicine or yoga to see if they have some wisdom. Then they could be relevant today. But I think I see there's a difference between skepticism and cynicism. I always tell people I'm a skeptic. If I was a cynic, I'd never get out of bed. But I'm a skeptic. And the skeptic is not, you know, disbelieving. Just show me the evidence. And that's why I love TM. There's just an enormous body of research and more coming out all the time in New York City, where I'm calling you from. We're offering TM for free in 50 hospitals to doctors and nurses and health care providers who are on the front lines. We're on the front lines during COVID and now the front lines with the violence that's happening in our cities. And we're in 50 hospitals. And we'll be in 1,000 hospitals in a year or two because the demand is so great.
Speaker 1That is absolutely incredible. And what great work you're doing as well. I mean, you've been doing this for decades now to thousands and thousands of people. I mean, you know, when you look back at the lives you've changed and the lives you've saved, I mean, do you feel a sense of reward? Or are you still looking at the mountain ahead of you?
Speaker 2No, there's two things. There's a wonderful question. By the way, you're an excellent interviewer. Really good.
Speaker 1You asked a really good question. Thanks, man. Not bad for a dumbass rock musician, huh?
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. Really good. Really good. Really good.
Speaker 1Thanks, man.
Speaker 2Ask me the question again.
Speaker 1I was just saying, on a personal level, I mean, do you feel a sense of reward? Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2Yes. Yeah. I'll tell you. When I was a kid, I always wanted to change the world. I worked for Bobby Kennedy, Senator Bobby Kennedy, when he was trying. Yeah, that's a talk about ancient. When he was trying to, when he was, when he was running. Wanting to get the Democratic nomination for president. And I saw him speak in San Francisco with 2,000 people in June. And I thought, we're going to change this blanky blank world. We're all together. And then five days later, four days later, he was assassinated. And it was very devastating to me. And I decided I was going to go to college, went to University of California at Berkeley. I would study law. And I would become a U.S. Senator like Bobby Kennedy. Change the world. Well, it didn't take me long. And to realize, even then, going to school at Berkeley, that politics was not going to heal the soul of the nation. I mean, look what's going on. And I thought, maybe education. My mom was a school teacher. Maybe I'd write an educational curriculum and change kids one at a time. And then I learned to meditate. I started, you know, skeptically, but I learned it. And one of my first thoughts after I learned, it was so relaxing. I thought, maybe this is a tool I'll bring to those kids in South Sanford. I thought, maybe this is a tool I'll bring to those kids in South Sanford. And in Oakland, California, where there's a lot of crime. And now, when you ask that question, you know, that was June 28, 1969. Wow. You know, all these years later, now I run a foundation that's brought TM for Free to a million kids all over the world. And we're working with veterans and police and firefighters and, you know, emergency technicians, you know, drive ambulances. And we're working with school teachers. And inner city school kids and frontline health care workers and women who are survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. And it's growing. And we're in, you know, New York. And our main centers are New York, Los Angeles, and Washington, D.C. But that's just because we're pouring all of our resources to demonstrate and how effective this can be. And then we'll make it available all over the country and all over the world. So, yes, it's very satisfying on the one hand. But on the other hand, I still see the mountaintop. And there's still more. There's still more work to do. So, I don't stop. I don't stop ever. People are always saying, well, just bask in your achievement. And I say, no, it's more fun and more. I love challenges. And it's more fun to go for the top. And the top is medical insurance companies covering TM. So, everyone has equal access.
Speaker 1That would be amazing. That would be amazing. Well, I mean, for people listening in the U.K., you know, obviously, that's a strange concept to us. But in America, I can appreciate just how powerful that is.
Speaker 2Well, it's going to happen. I'll tell you, in the U.K., your insurance, your health care system is getting riddled and beat up by the same stress, drug abuse, violence. You know, it's the same. And when it's demonstrated here, it won't be long before the U.K. They have to do it because they're losing money and they're losing, more importantly, they're losing lives.
Speaker 1Great point. Yeah, great point. Well made. And when people talk about you, they often focus on the fact that you've taught. Oprah Winfrey and Russell Brand and Hugh Jackman and all these celebrities. You're the guy that's taught the celebs. But, you know, what doesn't normally get mentioned in that same conversation is the fact that you've taught thousands upon thousands and thousands of people personally from a very different walk of life, from, you know, military vets to survivors of domestic abuse, trauma victims, people with PTSD. And I'd be really interested to know what you've seen personally happen to those people as a result of beginning this practice of Transcendental Meditation. You know, what improvements or changes did you see in these people personally and how long did it take before those changes became known as a result of doing this practice?
Speaker 2Really good question. So when we're talking about, like, veterans or police, I'll give you an example in the U.S. It may be different in the U.K., but a person in the U.S. will experience or see, on average, three to four traumatic events in their lifetime. Just something. Car crash. Something. In their family. Three to four. A first responder, a firefighter or a police, 180. Wow. 180 of traumatic experiences. Imagine what that does to your brain and your nervous system. Oh, yeah. And, you know, obviously your emotions. So what they find with TM, because it's so easy to learn and the veterans love it, you know, and we tell them it's roots or it's actually a warrior's meditation. It was practiced by the warriors early on. Oh, wow. Not a bunch of hippy-dippies. It was like, you know, by warriors, I said, this is your meditation. Wow. And within a few days, having learned it, what we find is veterans who hadn't slept more than an hour or two because of nightmares and night flashes, now they're sleeping for a week, 16, 18 hours. And then after a week, they're just back to normal. But the body gets such a degree of rest and relaxation that now they can sleep. There's such a sleep debt. So the Veterans Administration is very interested in the benefits of TM because it shows, like within a few weeks, research shows a reduction in PTSD, which is post-traumatic stress disorder, a reduction in anxiety, a reduction in insomnia. They start sleeping better. And there's a transformation. And again, we don't teach them a philosophy. We don't teach them, oh, you should have a positive. You should have a positive outlook on life. You should be happy. You should be happy you're alive. No. We just give them the tool, the technique. It takes about an hour a day over four consecutive days to learn from a certified teacher. You don't want a bogus teacher, a certified teacher. And that teacher will teach you how to meditate. And that teacher will be available to support you or other teachers for the rest of your life. And so now I'm going to answer your question. About a 30% to 40% reduction in symptoms of PTSD. about a 50% to 60% reduction in sleep disorders, disorders very significant. And right now there's a, they call it a phase three trial that we're doing at Stanford University Medical School, University of Southern California Medical School, Columbia University Medical School, Mount Sinai Hospital on TM and veterans with PTSD. And the results of that study will be used to get coverage by the insurance carrier for veterans to cover TM for free, you know, as part of their healthcare system. So all my talk about this, we're not far away. It's not just talk. It's very, very close. That is incredible. And when that happens, you
Speaker 1know, what an achievement that will be for you personally to have been part of the movement
Speaker 2that made that happen. No, it's really will be great. And it's, you know, it's the thing is, the need is so great that people are stepping forward. Let me help. Let me help. Let me help. Let me help. We've launched something in New York City called Meditate New York. And in a couple of months, there's going to be a new one. And it's going to be a new one. And it's going to be a new billboards all over the city, just telling people, look into meditation, not just TM, look into meditation, educate yourself. No more make your decisions. And the mayor Eric Adams of New York City, I talked to meditate 12 years ago. So he's a co chair of Meditate New York. It's really going well, really going well.
Speaker 1That's amazing, man. Well, I think with all this information and science and galaxy of benefits and stats and everything that we're talking about, I think it's important at this point to remind people that essentially the practice itself is very, very simple. Essentially, it's just sitting still with your eyes closed for 20 minutes once or twice a day. It doesn't require any equipment.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, no apps, no, no, you, you, you have, you have a sound, a simple one, two, three syllable sound that you think quietly and a teacher teaches you how to how to think it. So you're not making effort, you're not straining. So the whole process is profoundly relaxing. And that again, is a very, very simple practice. And it's, it's a very, very simple practice. And it's, again, all the stuff we're talking about, comes about from that deep relaxation in the body. And also the brain, the brain is bathed in this very calming, soothing, coherent, it's called alpha one. So afterwards, that deep rest is not doesn't make you exhausted, it's energizing. You have more energy, more focus, more resilience, you're more yourself, you're just more yourself. That's it. You're more, you're not the stress self, you're more yourself.
Speaker 1Well, God knows I need a lot more of that in my life, because I currently, I have, I've been recently diagnosed with PTSD and a little bit of nervous system dysfunction due to some recent trauma that I had. So that I need to be getting back on the saddle with James, my buddy,
Speaker 2when we're done here, we're going to connect and we'll set up some times for a follow up.
Speaker 1And I'll help you with that. Oh, thank you so much, Bobby. That's music to my ears. I'll fill you a bit in more on the details when we speak. Sure. Yeah, I mean, that thank you so much for that. You're very kind that that segues into the next section of the conversation that I'm going to try and squeeze in here before I take up too much of your time, which is somebody in my situation that does have training in TM and does understand what it's all about and what it entails. But it's still struggling to actually make it a habit in their life. What tips could you give us now as somebody who is, you know, work done this with thousands of different types of personalities in different situations from all sections of society? What general habit forming tips could you give to someone like myself, who's making a lot of excuses? I get up in the morning, there's coffee, I want to, you know, I want to exercise before I get up, you know, I don't have kids. But if I did, that would be my distraction. There's work, there's the commute. How do people when they're juggling so many things in an ever more stressful and ever more time constrained life, find time for this?
Speaker 2Well, first thing I say is, James, there's 1440 minutes in your day. And if you can't find 20 out of that, or 40, out of it. Some priorities here, buddy, because, because, because, because the trajectory that we're all on, and if you have PTSD, and and and, you know, it's another thing is called complex PTSD, where you just gather just living, then it's not getting any better on its own. So number one, there is time to be available, you can just get up 20 minutes earlier. And the 20 minutes, here's another point, it doesn't take away from the sleep, the benefits of sleep, because the rest during TM is deeper than sleep. So you're not, it's not like you're getting up and losing 20 minutes to exercise, you've already doing the exercise, you get up 20 minutes earlier to get a state of rest deeper than sleep, that's going to allow you to sleep better the next day. And, and so and the fact is, for the brain to establish new neural pathways, this, whether we're saying new habits, it takes anywhere between three and six, weeks for that to happen three weeks and six or seven weeks for that to happen, right? When I learned TM, I decided I didn't know any of this stuff, I decided, okay, I'm just going to do the meditation, as my teacher said, do it twice a day for 20 minutes, I'm going to do it for a month. And then if I'm there, but I'm going to do it. And then after a month, then I'll decide if I want to do it, but I have to give it a chance. If you if someone says, oh, here's a beautiful plant. No, if you have used a beautiful orchid, but there's no work, it's still young. But if you water it like this, you're gonna have beautiful orchids. And then you watered half as much, you said, ah, there was no the flower wasn't any good, the orchid wasn't pretty, but you didn't give it a chance. You didn't water it properly. So and also, I hear from people saying, well, I meditate when I get really stressed. And I said, that's like watering your vegetable garden when the leaves are, you know, the lettuce is about to die. It's not going to do any good. Water the stinking vegetable garden. Take care, take care of yourself, take care of yourself. So to you and to others, I'd say, all right, I'm going to do this for a week, twice a day. All right, I'm going to re-up it for another week. But you got to do it. And if you don't, then you got nobody to blame but yourself.
Speaker 1Love that answer. I feel like I've been told and I shall do as I'm told. So thank you, Bob. Yeah, good, good, good. Well, for people that have a bit more discipline than myself, and you are really putting in the time and the effort here to make this work. What general tips have you discovered, over the years of doing this on such an extensive level, that help people along the way to form this habit or to maintain this habit or to make it a little bit easier along the way? Because, you know, it is difficult. I mean, the practice itself is very simple, but it can also be very difficult because it's so at odds with the nature of our internal world, isn't it? Our internal world is so noisy. We've got that internal dialogue, which never shuts the hell up for two minutes. So just calming all that and silencing all of that is, can be quite difficult to fall into a groove with that. So what general things have you discovered over the years that help people to stick with it and to make it a bit easier?
Speaker 2Well, it's a good question. And the fact is, when I told you about those three different types of meditation, focused attention, very hard to do because you're trying to stop the way you're basically trying to stop the waves on the surface. You're trying to stop thoughts, which is very hard because the mind naturally thinks about a zillion different things. The open monitoring, a little easier. You don't have to stop thoughts. It's just living in the present, you know, and then TM, I have to say no effort. And that's why I want to refresh your practice because if you're making effort, it's not TM. So I would, but I would, for everyone, I would say, just be sure you're doing it right. If you're doing the focused attention and that's your choice and you want that, that difficult sort of thing, but you like it, then connect with your teacher or find someone and just be sure, just be sure. Be sure you're, whatever you're doing, be sure you're doing it right. And so that's what I'm saying to you, James, you want to be sure you're doing it right. And you're going to find that it's not difficult. I promise you, you're going to find that it's comfortable and easy and relaxing. And that, so I just tell my advice is to anyone, just be sure you're doing it right. And if you're not happy with one meditation, try another because they're not all the same.
Speaker 1Great advice. Well, Bob, as we come towards the end, because I know, unfortunately, I've got to let you go. Even though I'd like to keep talking to you for the next two hours. Everyone that's been listening that wants to get involved and start their meditation journey. How do they start? Where do they go? What do they do? And how does it all work?
Speaker 2Well, two things. You can go, I just know that in the US, you can go to tm.org and then they'll tell you that there's a place to find out where the UK, or you can just go online and just, you know, Google Transcendental Meditation UK. I'm also going to do something here. I'm going to give out my actual meditation. I'm going to give out my actual email address. This doesn't go to someone else. It goes to me. And if you have any questions about the meditation or you want help in finding a teacher, you can email me. And it's [email protected]. [email protected]. That is my personal email address. And I'm doing it because James is such a good guy. Speaker 1I'm not going to take any of the credit for that. That's very, very kind of you, Bob. I hope you're not going to get inundated.
Speaker 2But if I am, that's fine. If people genuinely want to know, then I'm happy to answer. That's fine.
Speaker 1Oh, you're a true gent. That's really kind of you. Thank you, Bob. And I can assure you that none of my listeners will be contacting you with anything dubious or irritating because they're all of a supreme intellect level, hence why they listen to my podcast, of course. Bob can also be stalked on Instagram and Twitter @MeditationBob. And as I mentioned in the intro, he is also the executive director of the David Lynch Foundation, which can be found at www.DavidLynchFoundation.org. foundation.org.uk so check that out and if you're interested in hearing more from bob bob has done thousands of interviews which you can hear on podcast form or on youtube as well uh talking more on this subject so definitely go and check that
Speaker 2out and get yourself started man wonderful and you're great and and next time i'm going to interview you about your rock musician and how you got interested in all of this and what you're
Speaker 1doing but that'll be another call oh anytime yeah i look forward to that i tell what could be interesting is maybe if i get back on the meditation saddle and we could have a catch-up conversation maybe you know six months down the line or something to see how my life has changed what i did differently to make me stick with it this time with more success and what benefits i'm
Speaker 2feeling as a result perfect sounds great to me i i thank you very much for having me on your show it's an honor and and i really enjoyed it a lot oh well the honor is all i was bob honestly thank
Speaker 1you so much for uh for doing this today we really appreciate it it's been a fascinating conversation and hopefully you know we'll speak to you again really soon okay take care you too bye bye thank you bob take care mate speak to you soon bye bye bye bob roth boys and girls ladies and gentlemen put it together for him what a kind and cool guy absolutely does not need to be taking time out of his busy schedule to come and talk to me when he usually frequents you know the biggest talk shows on the planet but um did it nonetheless gave us his time he even gave us his email address which is crazy uh so don't take advantage of that right guys don't let me down now don't go like in and dating him with stupid questions you know don't be like i got your email address off the james kennedy podcast i'd like to ask what your opinion is on the underground bunkers that the alien lizard people control us from you know keep it exclusively meditation based and specifically to do with transcendental meditation and i'm guessing to do with where you can find a teacher in your nearest town keep it limited to that please don't take the piss but i hope you enjoyed the conversation i think it's fascinating stuff and i can personally vouch for the fact that it honestly honestly does work and i've only done it a handful of times and the fact that i haven't stuck with it is to do with me not to do with the practice itself it's clearly a little bit of a wonderful powerful thing which has been proven consistently by science so give it a go man just give it a go check out the the links that i mentioned earlier they'll be copied into the description as well so you can click straight through check out the david lynch foundation and just type in transcendental meditation and followed by in the name of your hometown and see if you can get yourself a local teacher and just give it a go man just give it a go and if you're not meditating in any form whatsoever there are loads of apps and things you can do just to get just to dip your toe in just so you can get a feel for how it all works and stuff it's dead simple you don't need any equipment like bob said you can just do it sitting in a chair you can do it sitting in a garden you can do it sitting in a bus stop if you need but you know and in these ever stressful ever noisy ever anxious times just being able to shut your brain off just for you know five to ten to twenty minutes is really invaluable honestly for your entire nervous system so give it a go man you know and see how you get on with it some people take to different things better and quicker than others you know you might really fall in love with it and be like how did i ever live without this you know and when that happens you can thank me but mostly bob as always remember to subscribe to the podcast because we bring in new bangers like this every single week baby so wherever you get your podcast whether it's spotify apple stitcher cast box even on youtube give me a follow give me a subscribe hit the star rating button let the algorithm know that people are interested in these conversations so that it pushes it out there for more people that's not a lot to ask is it for all this free goodness as for me you know exactly what i'm going to go and do now i'm going to go and get my zen on baby so i will see you next week take care of yourselves have a great one and i'll catch you on the next one see you guys
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