Speaker 1something that's come up quite a lot when we've discussed uh marketing and lead generation and things like that has been that or something i've said sometimes is is that difference between when you're your target audience and when you're not your target audience and it's something i've kind of generally thought myself as being i say fortunate it was a choice i made so it wasn't just pure luck that i'm generally been trying to attract people who are loosely like me so it meant i never had to try and do those difficult things of putting myself in a completely different mindset and like trying to work out i don't know what a 20 year old male would be looking for in a personal trainer and how i can talk to them in their language and things like that but something that's sort of come off the back of a few conversations i've had with other trainers recently is that however much that idea can be appealing and sometimes we do fall into that well i'm i'm trying to appeal to myself so therefore i just need to you know be myself there's always a number of areas where we aren't our target audience just through the nature of what we do how we do it our lifestyle different things like that and sometimes they can trip us up so the obvious one and the way it sort of first came up recently was when i was chatting somebody we were talking about pricing and they were really concerned about their pricing because it's a bit expensive and then they said the words well i couldn't afford to pay it and and we kind of went from there and i think that's that's a you know really big one sometimes where when we look at it and we go well i wouldn't do that and then it starts to undermine our confidence in what we're providing because at the back of our mind we're like well i wouldn't pay for that so i think it can be really useful to have a little bit of a think about where you aren't your target audience and and try and put those you know separate them out because when you can say well i'm not my target audience i'm actually trying to attract people who can afford to pay me this and if that's not me because i can't afford it or i wouldn't prioritize the expense for this thing or for whatever other reason then it helps us ring fence it a little bit more and i think that's a really good point and i think that's a bit more rather than undermining our confidence we suddenly go well that's okay i'm not aiming for those people i'm aiming for these ones so i thought it'd be useful for us to have a little bit of a chat about those kinds of areas where we aren't our target audience or where sometimes it's obvious but sometimes it's kind of like well actually even if we think we are there's probably some subtle differences that we should probably you know overlay in this and before we get too carried away with going i'm my target audience i'm just gonna talk as if it's me and everything's gonna be great
Speaker 2i agree it's it's interesting isn't it because i think a lot of the time we come to that conclusion because we kind of take the headlines from the avatar it's like i am female and i'm in my 40s and i'm going to train other women who are like me um short on time have children don't have children like whatever it is you kind of take the headlines and that doesn't create the nuance of people's lives um and and i i've like since becoming a personal trainer i've always thought oh it's a shame i'm not someone who can afford a personal trainer or necessarily has the time for it i i actually did more group exercise and communal exercise so to speak when i wasn't a personal trainer than when i was just due to the nature of the times i work which are obviously the times that fit the clients i have and therefore automatically separate me as the target audience because i'm not available at the times that personal trainers are available because i'm a personal trainer yeah although
Speaker 1to be fair that probably puts you into being the perfect candidate for a lot of people are going i desperately want clients who are not in these early morning sessions and things like that but i think one of the points you made there is is quite often and some of this is because of our negative bias so quite often we kind of come up with all these potential issues and and kind of they become the reasons why something won't work for reasons like why somebody wouldn't need us and all of that and i think you know you mentioned there that you'd like a personal trainer now you have all the knowledge in the world to get whatever result it is that you want out of working with a personal trainer and yet you've said you want one and you want them for for different reasons and yet when we talk to a lot of personal trainers it comes down to the education element it's all about the that sort of sharing that knowledge and educating the clients when i'm the same as you the number of times i've had trainers in the past and again it would be great to have one it's not because i need someone to tell me you know to teach me what i don't already know it's that i want someone to just you know i can pass over that responsibility for so i don't have to think about these things and and it's it's nice to just hand over that responsibility because you're doing it for everybody else and just go just tell me what to do so i don't have to analyze this and work out where i'm going and and all of that kind of stuff that means it's useful to categorize or think about those kind of things in terms of what is your client is it somebody who is looking to be educated is it somebody where it is going to be all about the way you share that knowledge or is it somebody who's kind of going yeah i don't need to know this i just want to turn up no i'm going to get a good session and leave knowing that what i've done is effective and been a good use of my time without me having to switch my brain on too much because i'm using that on so many other areas of my life
Speaker 2yeah yeah that's it and a cheerleader i think it's quite like a cheerleader claire you know just someone who's there going well done that was good yeah excellent great squat maggie i kind of like i say
Speaker 1stuff to people and go i'd like yeah i'm not sure i'd want one of those i think that would just irritate me if i'm being truthful the theory sounds good i think the reality i'd just be like getting ready to kill people but that's fine because we're different people and i think that's where if we look at some of the stuff where we go hang on a second this is what i'm providing this is who i'm providing it for we it is worth building up a little bit of a profile and asking yourself those questions around what do they actually want from a session do they want education um or not and and sometimes the answer will be yes i'm aiming for this particular demographic and that's what they want out of this sometimes it's not and i think there's also that element of however much we might go as you said the headlines match up and i'm who i'm aiming for we have this inherent knowledge that most of the people we're aiming for don't um i say inherent we've studied for it we woke up one day and went oh i happen to know the anatomy for this or why we're doing that or the difference between this foot position or this hand position but we've got that knowledge and then we kind of almost dismiss it when we're saying well i am my my target audience we also tend to have a different lifestyle a different working structure than a lot of people obviously there are others careers out there where people are self-employed and have maybe may have similar hours or things like that but generally what we do doesn't fit into the same pattern as what most other people do when it comes to work which again just makes it different um the fact that we are often in a gym environment or certainly have equipment available to us quite easily which is a double-edged sword and and a lot of these things we need to look at from the point of view of the people we're aiming for not from our own knowledge because our own knowledge says it doesn't matter if you're in the gym all day in fact if you're in the gym all day making yourself use it sometimes can be more difficult than if you're not because it's just there and you could do it but you've got other things you'd rather do whereas from the sort of people we're trying to attract point of view this is where for them it falls into that well it's easy for you you're already there um you already know what you're doing you like this stuff and then so sometimes there is definitely a place for going well where are the things where it that's true um maybe it is something you like doing and you you own that and go well okay this is where i know i'm different from the people i'm trying to attract therefore i need to be acknowledge that somewhere to myself and make sure that i filter everything so that it comes across in the way that's right for the people i'm trying to put the messages across for and where are those things actually what they think is wrong so therefore maybe i can use that and share something a little bit more about me that says this isn't isn't true i mean the same way as all the people we're aiming for are going to be different for each of us we are all different there's not obviously a little pot that says all personal trainers feel exactly the same about all of these things have exactly the same lifestyle and all of that kind of stuff so it is going to be very personalized but i think just that exercise of saying where am i different from the people i'm aiming for even if we went okay i'm a perimenopausal female I'm aiming for other perimenopausal females. If you look at the long list of different symptoms, it's going to be, well, these are the ones that I'm kind of working with or have dealt with or this is where I am. They'll be different for everybody else. So you can't just kind of dismiss some or focus on some. It's kind of being open to the idea that, yeah, there's going to be some stuff that you're going to say that's going to just hit that spot for somebody else. And there's going to be some stuff that you're going to say that they're going to go, well, no. I mean, yes, I fit in your larger box of, say, perimenopausal female, but actually I haven't had hot flashes. I've had all these other things or vice versa. So none of this is going to be kind of huge. It's just all going to be those things that just maybe make a subtle change to the tone of the things that you're putting out or the detail that you're putting out that just makes it more relatable. Because you've just acknowledged that, oh, hang on a second. That assumption I've made is because I've put myself in this same bubble and actually there's differences here. Is that something that you'd kind of agree with in principle?
Speaker 2Yeah, definitely. And I think thinking about it on that kind of level, there's loads of reasons, isn't there, why we could be completely mismatched in terms of if we assume on the headlines that we're not going to be able to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The same as our target audience, that we could miss things that are really important to hear as a potential client and to pull people in. Things like, to return to the similar thing before, but why are you motivated? Like generally as a personal trainer, you love fitness, you'd assume. You probably got into it because somewhere along the lines, you really enjoyed doing particular things. Maybe that is where you've gone. Even with your training. Like, oh, I love running and I now coach other people to run. Or, oh, I love strength training and I now coach strength training. Like it might even fall in line as far as that's concerned. But you are always someone potentially who's loved that. And so you could easily miss how your target audience feels about it. And that kind of empathy maybe that just has to be, wiggling its way through your messaging and your language and your coaching so that you aren't just talking about it as though it's, well, of course we all enjoy it. And of course we all love it. And talking about it as though it's easy, even because it can be easy to forget how it wasn't easy once, especially if you've been doing it for so long. So I think, yeah, you could easily, you can easily project your own why onto, to them and their why be very, very, very different. And so, yeah, I think it's probably easier when you've got clients already, because you can listen to them and talk to them and build a bank of whys and see the similarities between them. But if you're starting out, you might not have that.
Speaker 1And even when you've got clients, and this is where I think you absolutely can use, and it's great to use your client's voices and to get, you know, the quotes from them and the testimonials and all that. And that's always going to be the basis. Of a lot of the marketing you do. But I think some of the things that can sometimes get missed is that the client you have now, isn't the same as the one that started with you six months ago or a year ago or 10 years ago, because they've kind of been indoctrinated. That's possibly not the right word, but they've learned from you might be the better way of saying that, but they have. So they kind of picked up on different things. They're going to have new, new opinions on stuff and that's all good because they're obviously enjoying it because they're still there. But I think that's where asking those kinds of questions around based on when they started or before they started things like, how did you feel about exercise before you started with me? And why did you choose to come here or work with me? What made you get started? What was that kind of whole thought process? And it's the kind of conversation that you really can only have once somebody is completely comfortable with you because normally what you want is that completely honest bit where they were kind of like, well, you know, I thought about it a few times and then I couldn't be bothered and then I was a bit scared. So I did something else and then I kind of ignored it for a bit longer. And then something came up, which was a good enough reason not to do it. And you kind of want that, that real sort of brutal honesty that we don't normally share with people very quickly in a relationship, but you want them, to be comfortable enough to share that because that's the stuff that's going to give you those, those messages to power to other people who are currently thinking, yeah, I know I should, but I don't really want to. And all of that, if this is your target audience, obviously if your target audience is somebody who's already got some exercise routines or athletic goals or whatever it is, you're going to be looking at it in a different way. And you're going to be saying, well, what were you looking for? What were the things that made you go? Actually, you can help me. You can help me with this specific outcome rather than go to a different trainer because we're not all right for everybody. So as we've said before, the stuff we put out there is as much to put off the wrong people as it is to attract the right people. And so that we don't get somebody that wants to run a marathon contacting me about working with them because I am so not the person to work with them. So it's, it's kind of having to understand, understanding of what were they like then and reading between the lines. When you first meet people, you know what they don't say as well. And kind of then being able to to address that more generically in the stuff that you put out there. So you're attracting more because as you said, all those little things that you said as a headline, they're all going to be, they're all going to sort of include some people and exclude others by the very nature of it. So if you're putting out stuff, making assumptions that every 50 year old female has, children or grandchildren, then you're missing out the people that don't put themselves in those, those boxes, which is absolutely fine if that's where you are targeting, but it's making it a choice rather than something you've accidentally done because you've made some assumptions in the way that you're putting stuff out there.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's funny as you were talking then I realized that some of my clients did become more me and as a consequence, I indoctrinated them as a consequence, they stopped training with me because they became trainers themselves and like some of them work with me. Some of them work elsewhere, but in the same way that I got super into it and then I left what I was doing because I was personal training people more and at those times and all the rest of it, that's also happened. So some of the people I've trained, so I was thinking as you were talking, then I was like, I don't want them to be you. They are too much.
Speaker 1You, they become you. Yeah, there's a downside, right? Because we've just said the reasons why we don't have a personal trainer and you don't want to give turn all the people into it's a nice reason to not, but it's yeah, it's just one of those things I felt like because I know I have, I've had conversations so often the other way around where it's well, you know, if it's you, then you couldn't share it and all of that. But then when you have those conversations where it's like, well, actually I wouldn't wouldn't pay for it and I wouldn't fit it in or I wouldn't go then or to that place or this, this way it's worth doing that and then questioning yourself to go, well, is that a problem? But most of the time it's not that it's a problem. It's that you've actually, then you've drawn those parameters in the wrong direction. You've drawn the wrong place as to who you're aiming for because yeah, if you're aiming for you, you need to be saying, well, it's something I would pay for it's something a place I would go. It's a time I would do on all of those kinds of things. But quite often there's an important line there somewhere which says actually it isn't me I'm trying to attract is somebody else and for that person they absolutely value this thing in this way and they're going to they're going to pay as a result. And this is, this is the right thing for them and they're not me and that's okay and I know that he said
Speaker 2it at the beginning but I think that's a really important conversation to have with yourself when you are thinking about things like pricing and things like that because it can feel like something costs a lot of money and you might be wanting to raise your prices because you need to also maybe you just want to earn a bit more money because you deserve to you've got more experience and more qualifications and so on and so forth like whatever reason you've decided that you want to do that. I know speak and I'm sure you speak to a lot of PTs and like the essentials mentoring and stuff but it's that fear of raising it because well cost of living is going up and I'm struggling to afford things and that means other people are and it's like well actually not everybody not everybody is going to be in that same position and so many people can still very much afford and value having and spending their money on having a personal trainer so you kind of have to pull yourself back. from that thinking, don't you? -
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. and I think that's that is we do have that sort of negative bias thing and the fear always is the loudest voice coming up with all the reasons why something isn't going to work um and add that on top of what's going to be a potentially difficult conversation because it's never fun to turn around to people and say actually you're gonna have to pay me more um and we want we want to be kind of like these people but actually you know our own mortgages rent expenses and stuff don't get paid by us going do you know what have it all for free so it's it is this balancing act I think I mean something else that could be quite good there I think is separating yourself out from things and treating it again it's like it's a business it's not me it's not a personal thing it's it's a business and kind of separating yourself out a little bit in that way and going right from a business point of view this has to happen and reminding yourself around who you are who is still out there who can afford it because it is the things do change over time and there will be people that could afford it they can't anymore some of that is going to be because of external factors um like cost of living generally and stuff like that some of it's going to be because personal stuff they're going to choose to move to I don't know a bigger house with a higher mortgage and stuff like that or they're going to choose to spend their money on a holiday somewhere rather than their personal training for a year or whatever it is and they're allowed to do that because they're going to be able to do that because they get to choose it's their their priorities um but money is a big one that we tend to get caught up in I think and it's always something that that trainers quite often kind of feel uncomfortable about and it is always worth reminding yourself that actually there are people out there who who have that money and one of the people I've been speaking to recently who was talking about some some increases that actually they were about bringing different people up to where the current level was and I think that's a big one and I think that's a big one and I think it was there were people that hadn't been changed in about eight years I think it was and it's kind of like well I can't remember what job they did now but I was asking a little bit about the client and they had a high paying job and like you're telling me they haven't had a pay rise in eight years because I'd be very surprised if doing whatever it was um it hasn't well no of course they haven't so well that's all you're asking for here really it's just you're just saying that what you paid eight years ago is not um viable situation for my business right now and so by separating out and going well okay let's take all the emotion out of it look at it from a business point of view and if you're not earning enough money to sustain yourself then you won't be doing this long term so they they'll have to go and find somebody else and and that kind of stuff and you'll be trying to find a different job for the sake of asking this person to pay what is your current market rate so it was by taking that out and this is where I think something like essentials or having that somebody where you can have this conversation where your emotions aren't caught up in it or their emotions aren't caught up in it and they can ask those questions and say yeah but well surely they've got this and it's like yeah actually that person will be able to pay your extra you know five pound a week or whatever it was going to be without you know blinking and yet you're tying yourself up in knots about this there's no guarantees they could still choose to go somewhere else again there's always that choice but ultimately if you carry on charging the amount you're charging you're not going to keep a business for very
Speaker 2long so no and also and it's hard this way I think because the reality is of it is that it always feels icky putting prices up it always feels icky taking money but you have to take money because like you said like you don't exist in this doing this job paying mortgages your bills all the rest of it but you have to take money I don't know why it feels icky I don't know as if it feels icky for everybody but certainly like we found here we don't we don't put them up as often as we should and one thing particularly PT prices and I think that's because the one-to-one stuff you do recognize that only that person is paying for it it's not shared between anybody else it's like literally that time is their time but then that's also the point isn't it that time is their time and that's and they are the only person that can pay for that time with you and so if they want that service and they value that service then and they've come to you so they do and they've been working with you so they do they are very likely to be willing to pay more and I think there's also another issue within it we we were talking about this very recently because we haven't raised them the prices for a while on one-to-one PT and we're thinking what we actually need to do as we work out where we're putting them up next is also build in a yearly review of them going up my hairdresser takes her prices up in April and September I go up for cuts in April and colors in September happens every time and it's a set percentage amount and I look at her and I go every time she sends the email I go oh God prices going up I still go and I go to someone else and I go to her why because I value what she does I like the way she does my hair and I don't want to go to anyone else because she knows me very well and I value it and so I will pay it and I also recognize that it has to go up even though I'd rather not and I have a little grumble to myself and my friend goes there too and we have a little grumble to each other and we go but also we recognize it like that's just what happens and I think we were talking about this in as a kind of running the business and working in the business here as the other thing it's very easy to do is undervalue what you're worth like as somebody who chooses to pay people for classes to get instructors in and pay them I'm really aware of what a fair and equitable rate is for the women that work here and also the fact that that's really important because they're raising families are paying their own mortgages and actually they're not paying their own mortgages they're I think that's even more important sort of to not go too deep into it but you know me Claire the systemic issues around that as well and barriers that face women in different ways I think that's really important that we do that but I need to also then reflect that back on myself and say well when you're setting your PT prices you are the same you also should not be undervaluing yourself you also face those same systemic barriers you also have a lot of experience and qualifications you've worked hard to get and to develop and to build a knowledge so that you can offer your clients the best you possibly can and I need to feel more comfortable about charging what I'm worth rather than what I think somebody can afford and I can say all those things out loud and it will still feel icky but the more I tell myself those things the easier it kind of becomes and I think sometimes it's easier to look at it back to front in that way and I think that's what am I comfortable paying other people because if I'm not comfortable paying them that why the hell am I paying it for myself yeah I mean
Speaker 1as you were saying that I was thinking that is a really good way of doing things is to look at the other people you pay and I get it's really easy to say yes but they do this thing or there's always going to be a difference but if you look at I know hairdressers beauty therapists counsellors and other therapists even something like I don't know plumbers car mechanics you know different people and yes sometimes we're like well you know I had to pay for them because they needed to fix the thing and there's no way I could fix this thing that needed doing but when you start looking at other services out there and saying well they charge these kind of amounts and it is what it is and then start using that to sort of bolster your own confidence around what you charge because it's really easy again a really common thing that people the personal trainers do and it probably happens in other industries as well it's just that we don't talk to them is is you look around and they don't look around and go what are the sort of people that pay that charge the same as me or more they look around and they go well these people do less you can do this and it's cheaper you can do that and it's cheaper and so I think it's really easy to say yes but I think it's really easy to sometimes it's comparing a completely different service sometimes it's you know maybe it's a class or something or it's it's the sort of lower cost commercial gyms and saying well you can get a gym membership for 20 quid a month why would you pay more than that for an hour session with me and that'll end multiple times a month rather than saying well that's a completely different service we're not comparing this like with like at all here but it is it's people the conversations that have with people who are sort of a bit nervous about these things that generally focused on well there's a person down the road and they're only charging 10 pound a session and you know I I'm doing 30 and I can't possibly do do this and and it's sort of again it undermines and if you don't have that confidence it makes it really difficult when you're then having conversations with clients and quite understandably one of the questions they're going to ask you is how much it's that information's already been shared online and stuff, which can get you around the conversation to some extent but you've got to be confident you've got to be able to say it costs this and have that you know because I'm worth it kind of mentality behind it because if you go into it being well it's sort of this and is that okay then some people are going to turn around and go well no I'll give you half that and you'll find yourself agreeing to it because you've just talked yourself down from whatever your rate should have been I think you know knowing going into conversations knowing what it's going to be and something you know tying it to your value something's always worked for me because I know I have a really strong value around fairness something that's always worked for me is going well you know I know I'm charging this to other people so there's no way I'm going to be able to I'm going to go anywhere else so that can give me the confidence to talk confidently about what my rate is and it's just that and and it's that's all it's going to be it's not going to change because some of the person in front of me tries to make it change there could be a different service and you can always have options where you say well you know if they genuinely can't do it that it's something where they see you less or it's a group program or whatever it is so you can have different price points for different services but you've got to know that the value of each service and that it is what it is and it's it's not it's not up for negotiation and potentially as I say it's not changing it will change it will go up over time because that's what happens with with costs generally and the way that the finance world works yeah
Speaker 2that's it inflation mate and you have to meet it otherwise you're not going to be able to afford to do what you do or live the way you want to live it's it's funny isn't it like I I could easily easily to use the example of my hair just again I could absolutely go somewhere else that is so much cheaper I mean I could go to a barber it's the same thing as then saying like well people could go to pure gym and just pay 20 or quid um and get the classes and all the rest of it yeah they could but it's entirely different that is not the same service it's a different service I go to a barber they cut hair but it's not the same service it's a different service I could go to a cheaper hairdresser's but I would I get what I get out of going to mine and that's not just I like the way she does my hair I like who she is I like the conversations we have I like the fact I feel comfortable in there and it feels like they're my kind of people all of that matters all of that is why people come to you it's not a price point that they're making decisions on in the same way that you make decisions on the services you buy into in your life it's not just purely based on cost yeah I
Speaker 1think it's really important to consider the the reasons why people choose you and it's occasionally you know finance will be part of that decision because it makes sense and I don't agree with you know some of the the stuff where you get these gurus out that they're kind of like well you know the money's not important you need to convince them that you're the right person and the money's no is irrelevant because we live in the real world right and there's always going to be a point where you can't afford that so it's not happening there's I'm never going to go and buy something without knowing how much it's going to be and just checking that it fits my own budget and my own internal balance of what am I getting for the money I'm I'm spending and mine will be different and my priorities will be different from yours and everybody else's there'll be certain things you know I like going to the theater there'll be a lot of people that would say I'm not spending that kind of money on a ticket to go and see that good fair enough that's something that I I will pay for so we all have those things and money will be a part of it but it is only a part of it in the same way as I don't go and see everything I choose the things that I want to see and I choose the ones that I feel are worth the money that I can have to pay it's the same with a personal trainer it's the same with your hairdresser um it's there's other factors and they can be take my hairdresser the big selling point for my hairdresser was I can book online I can literally go in and go yep she's free tomorrow at that time I'll go yeah which fits me far better than I need to ring up I need to hope they answer the phone most of the time they don't so I need to wait for them to ring me back I hope it's a time when I can answer to then have a discussion about when we can fit it in and then go now it only gets you so far and if we stick with my hairdresser I really need to remember next time I get it done to go somewhere else because I'm really not a fan of what she does but the the that convenience factor has got me there the last couple of times and it might I'm not saying it like that and some of them don't mean it's a complete win when it comes to what you're selling but there are going to be things that everybody's gonna have their own sort of internal what's important to them for some people it will be the convenience factor because the gym you're in or the place that you train out is on their way to somewhere or from somewhere and it just it fits perfectly that way some people it'll be the fact that there's parking uh some people it will be the way you've presented what you do because you've sold it as something where they are gonna get really hot and sweaty or you've sold it as something where they're not gonna get really sweaty um so there is gonna be all sorts of different things that they sort of like pull in and out off the back of that they'll they'll go yeah I'm interested in finding out more and then once they're there there's definitely once somebody sort of through the door you've got more chance of them carrying on because they've made it that far they've met you and you've had a conversation and you you go from there but it's it's always this kind of cumulative thing of stuff that's caught their attention that's made them kind of nod along to what you're saying that's made them go oh do you know what I wish I could have that experience I wish I could think that about exercise they've seen stuff that you've shared from clients and they've gone oh god yeah that would be great if that was that was me um and they've sort of thought well yeah you you probably understand I mean particularly if you work people who are lacking in confidence or who have injuries or conditions or anything that they they feel means that they can't just join in with everybody else when it comes to exercise so sometimes that's a recognizable condition sometimes that is a lack of confidence and it sort of manifests as a loss of confidence and it's a loss of confidence and it's a loss of confidence whether I can't do that thing I couldn't join in but if you are working or aiming for anybody in those those categories they need to feel comfortable they need to sort of be able to look and go oh yeah I could I could do that I could fit in not I'm gonna go there and feel like I'm broken and I can't do anything so it brings us back to where we started really in that kind of knowing who you're working with and knowing where they do kind of cross over with you where they don't cross over with you and potentially where they do cross over with some of your clients and where they don't because again you're going to work with a range of individuals and there'll be some where you're kind of like yeah this person is almost the poster child for what I'm trying to do and there'll be some where you're kind of like well they're they are in this way and they're not in that way so how do I show the stuff I want to show I'm shy like that because I want more people like this and having that awareness makes a huge difference I think when it comes to the subtle differences that mean you're not accidentally kind of patronizing your audience or accidentally cutting out a huge chunk of your audience because you've made an assumption in the way that you've put stuff out there so yeah just just spending not a long amount of time but spending a little bit of time just saying hang on a second just a touch base where is this the same where is it different where do I kind of really filter everything through and say would this appeal to this kind of person that I've created can just be the way forward yeah you're not your target
Speaker 2audience so who is absolutely
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