#463 Jason Flom with Ashunte & Willie Smith

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What a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the okay story time podcast on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, it's the Jonas Brothers. This week we're so excited to be hanging out with Mika Abdullah from the hit show Off Campus. We talk about what it's been like watching the show become such a massive hit. What's next for season two and just how close the Off Campus cast really is. What's the group chat called one of them is Off Campus Brazil. Okay, the boys have their own group chat called deems. Our conversation with Mika Abdullah is out now. Go check it out. Listen to hey Jonas in the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. In February of 1995 on the east side of Cleveland, 16 year old William Marshall survived an arm robbery. Rumors swirled about a usual suspect named Reggie Lewis. On March 28, 1995 the victims' cousins Willie and Ashante Smith ran into Reggie, who denied involvement offering to go with them to their cousins and clear his name. Over a week later, Reggie Lewis' body was found in a wooded area and eventually William Marshall blamed Willie and Ashante. But this is wrongful conviction. Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us at 833-207-4666 and tell us how these stories make you feel and what you've done to help the cause, even if it's something as simple as telling a friend or sharing on social media. And you might just hear yourself in a future episode. Call us 833-207-4666. Welcome back to wrongful conviction where we have a Cleveland family that was ripped apart, literally ripped apart by the wrongful conviction of Ashante and Willie Smith. But before we introduce them, I want to welcome back their appellate attorney, Kim Corral. Thank you for having me. And of course the two men who continue to endure the effect of their own cousins lie. Both of whom are calling in from correctional facilities in Ohio, first the younger of the two, Ashante Smith. Thank you, Papadie. And his older brother Willie, thank you guys both for joining us. Absolutely no problem. And this goes back to the mid-90s, 1995 when so-called tough on crime politicians had been elected around the country to prosecute the war on drugs, which was really just a war on people, the American people. When what we had was a humanitarian crisis, which became known as the crack epidemic. Not only were we talking about tough on crime politicians in the 90s, but we were talking about these super criminals, particularly juveniles. And so that kind of sets a tone for this case because Willie and Ashante were 15 and 19. When I say that Ashante was like, there are 15 year old, two look like adults and 15 year old, two look like 10 year olds. That's how I would describe Ashante at that time. I mean he was 15, but he was very young. I was 15 years old when I left, so I didn't experience much life. My mother was a single parent, crazy for children. My parents were divorced. When I was about, I was about four or five years old. My father, he was kind of a beautiful fool. We would be eating at the table where he might come in and just flip the whole goddamn table. You know, I'm saying food everywhere. And my mother eventually divorced him. We were living on kinsmen, we're not staying across from my grandmother. That's before the divorce and we were moved down to the projects project housing, called Longwood, the States. And we basically got settled on each side of the first street. And some of you is four of us. I was a third child. My second brother is where she and my sister sat in. I'm the oldest of three other siblings. My mother helps from a big family. So she had her sister's and Dreda, kid Agatha and one of her sisters who was murdered, Collette Marshall, being you had her brother who committed suicide back before I was born. My understanding is Lucretia, a shanty and Willie's mom, she basically was the one to find him. And that further solidified her position as like the black sheep in the family. So Lucretia and her sisters all have children, but really her children are other than some of the other cousins. And when one of Lucretia's sisters dies, grandma takes that child in. That's William Marshall. There was always a different type of treatment towards us being smears versus how my other cousins were treated by my grandmother. But William Marshall really is the golden boy in this group of cousins to grandma. And our cousins came around and we spent time with them and we were all relatively in the same age bracket. My wife and cousin William each of a one year older me and then the older cousin, Shawn Laney is a few years older than my brother. Shawn Laney and his mother and Dreda, William Marshall and his grandma, Sarah Marshall and then Kit Laster who married Don Laster, they all lived close to each other while the Smiths lived about five miles away near the victim in this case, Reggie Lewis. I didn't know. I seen you around the neighborhood. It was definitely a reputation because at the round of time guys from the neighborhood was robbing people. I saw her as Jackins Chicago Bulls Jackets Raiders Jackins George and they robbed the shooting and killing people for them. So Mr. Lewis, he was grabbing one drug addiction which I believe that led him out into the streets to rob people to feed his addiction. Have you ever seen the wire? Yeah. Not trying to you know, just spare a shim but I would describe Reggie as being like with Omar was. He was a terror. He was on drugs and he was causing havoc, making a lot of enemies and doing a lot. Then in February 1995, William Marshall was in the Smiths neighborhood when a mass gunman attacked. I believe it was over like a loony tunes jacket. She got shot in his back and I think he came out his neck and he went through surgery. It was serious. He almost lost his life. So it could get robbed at gunpoint. No one's trying to figure out who did it or what happened except for the other members of the family, the sort of cousin group who's trying to protect their own. The night of William shooting, Sean Ronnie Johnson, the friend of Sean Laney. And a few other guys went through my neighborhood and they jumped out on a few guys and rough house a little bit and they came over to Reggie Lewis name. And then on March 28th, 1985, Willie and Ashantay were driving around with their friends, Rashine, Blood, So and Clarence Brown. And they ran into Reggie in front of their friend Chanel Owens's house. Chanel Owens comes to the car and basically expresses that another drug addict named Scott Lerocca had just jumped on Reggie beating up a little bit. And she was like, I want Reggie Lewis, but my daughter and he won't leave. Everybody jumped out the car. But I remember the name. I say, I ain't you the one supposedly and he says, I need you. Nobody. You got me after and we got to fight you. And then the course of us fighting, he basically like, I didn't do it, but I know who did and was a boss. You could take me to your cousin. He has seen that I need to want to shot him. I don't know why everybody put my name and that shit. I had nothing to do with it. It was somebody else. So I'm like, OK, well, let's go. So we get into the car. He's not being restrained. He's not being pushed into the damn car. Another that. And we roll out. And Chanel Owens immediate statement to the police is that he goes willingly with Willie and Ashanti and their two friends. Later, she testifies that they all get into a fight and they kidnap him. It was doing the day. So I'm assuming that William is that school or wherever they go. He's supposed to be, but he's nowhere around. I go to the band very station warrants, we'll go run down on my cousin. He walks up to the car. He said, as Reggie, I said, it's Reggie right here. He said he didn't have nothing to do with that. Why is y'all putting his name in it? I mean, he basically like, all right, well, we don't find out. So he gets in the car and we all go to my uncle's house, Donald Lasser's house. And kid marshal's house down the street from my grandmother's house, Sarah Marshal. So we rolled up in there. Me and Ashanti and Sean precedence of my house. You know, wasn't going to walk up. and there were all these people, she would have to fit. And soon as we get up in the house, the whole tone change with sign. Like that's the dude who did it. Why did you bring you down? Now he know where our eyes stay. My eye chimes in, kid laughs the chimes in at the time, like yeah, if he is shoot him, he is shoot us. And you're, I'm like hold on man, the man said he didn't do it. So you know what I'm saying? I'm not about to do nothing to this dude. And I ask him, I say look man, go and check it out for William. If he didn't do it, he called. Shots as well, I take care of him from here, man. And Mr. Lewis got in the car with Sean Laney and Mr. Johnson the food truck. My brother, myself and our two friends, we left with him to see what it is. We didn't even see him leave. And so that is the end of their engagement with what turns out to be a murder. (soft music) You're listening to wrongful conviction. You can listen to this in all the Lava for Good Podcast one week early and add free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm HotaCotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with HotaCotby. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're gonna have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and it helped my mother through breast cancer and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice, but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy 101 with HotaCotby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My husband is currently on vacation with his mistress and I'm confronting them. Tell me, Sophia, how did she even catch them? One Amazon shopping receipt. He accidentally sent her a photo of the kid's Christmas gifts with a delivery to another woman at the bottom. He exposed himself. That's a rookie move. Couples massages, monogrammed bath robes, and lingerie he met motor for. So she spent four weeks gathering evidence and taped a 10 page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. In his luggage, she came to play. And the second he landed, he blocked her. So she called the hotel room directly and got the mistress on the phone. Ooh, she got the mistress live on the phone. That is a bold move. Let's see if it pays off. That I get's worse. He took the mistress on the Bahamas honeymoon trip. He had planned with his wife. And then the mistress tagged him on Facebook, outing the fare to her entire family. That's like a whole public confession. And spoiler two years later, karma hit some solo hardies calling his ex-wife in tears saying about the mistress, what a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers. If you haven't heard, our new podcast is called Hey Jonas. And this week, we're hanging out with someone where really big fans of. Millie Bobby Brown. That's right. 11 herself. We talk about her new movie and all of home's three, family life and all the amazing things she has going on right now. Of course. This blew my mind when I saw this, Millie Bobby Brown. You have over 60 animals. First of all, how do you even keep track of everybody? And second, do you have favorites? Who are they? And why? Yeah, I need to know about this. OK. I don't know where the number 60, and I really got to figure that out. And I could actually have over 60. I just need to really know that number. There have been plenty of sheep in my bed. And-- Yeah. It's a big bed. In the bed, literally sleeping in the bed, yeah. Plus, we find out what she really feels about stranger things in there. Five seasons, almost 10 years of your life. I could have never have guessed it. I started when I was 10 years old. Our conversation with Millie Bobby Brown is out now. Go check it out. Listen to Hey Jonas on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. On March 8, my grandmother, my brother and I did see her at a hardware store around 330, 4 o'clock at evening with our two friends, the St. Francis and the same white car we've been driving in all day. Actually, she saw them on the other side of town before she goes home. Which corroborated, Willie and Shanty's official events. They saw their grandmother shortly after leaving Reggie Lewis with their cousins. Meanwhile, as that day, turned into the next, Reggie's mother began to wonder where her son was. His mother said, as a child, that we used to hear from him, he called down to police department and found this replaced before, and he said a few days later, the body was recently covered. It's April 8, 1995. A kindergarten class is walking through a public park in Warnsville, which is about 20 minutes from where the crime occurred. And in the ravine, they find a pretty decomposed human body kindergartners. And so this gets a ton of attention. So once they're able to identify that it's Reggie Lewis, they start like a backwards investigation of who doesn't like Reggie Lewis. And they become aware that he's in a fight in Chanel Owen's yard. And when they first talked to Chanel Owen, she says, yes, he was in a fight in my yard with this person. And then he was in a fight in my yard with Willie Nishanti Smith and their two friends. And he got in the car with them and they drove off. On April 19, 1995, despite Chanel's initial statement that Reggie had gotten into the car willingly, both Willie and Nishanti were arrested for kidnapping. And Nishanti had an additional assault charge tacked on. They could go in about 6.30, 7 o'clock in the morning. So I team ran in the house with a mask on machine guns. Mr. Carey finally told me my brother would have arrested our questions. I was 15 years old at the time, but they questioned me anyway before my mother even got there. But I didn't have that to offer. Other than the fact that you got in the fight and we dropped the guy off. And that was the truth. I walk through the door to interrogation room. The detective's the spirit says, flat out. We know you didn't kill him. We know you just dropped him off. The first one to talk is the one to get to deal. So what are you saying? If I don't talk, you're going to put a case on me. We didn't completely come out and say, who we dropped him off to. That's true. We didn't do that. And maybe we should have said we saw Mr. Lewis leave with our cousin and his friend and he kind of listened and dead, you know, one plus two equals what it does, right? I told them I said, what's shit? It seemed like you already know everything. So if you know I dropped him off, then you know he was alive and well, then what am I here for? He talked into the wrong dude. And it was, that's not like how it works. And my mother and my grandfather on my father's side of the family happened to come in and sit down and she seen where it was going and told me not to say another word. And I have not seen another word. And so this interview today. Now they do a search in a shunties room. They find a gun, but it doesn't match the bullets that shot Reggie at that time. And the only shunties are only charged with kidnapping and a shuntie has an additional charge of assault. But I was doing now on the county jail. They had me the most of the adults to eight months until they found out I was doing now. I didn't sell me who was about, who he was about like 28 years old. William Marshall has not been involved or picked up or charged yet. An alleged anonymous tip led Detective Sparrow to William Marshall. Whoever made the tip said that they witnessed the murder. In the basement, a William's home that he lived with from a grandmother. And he identified Shalani, William Marshall and my uncles. This will let them to execute the war at the home. They search William Marshall's house and find blood, bullets. I mean, the house has been cleaned, but they're still remnants of blood all over the base, all over. And nine millimeter bullet was collected. And the serology came back consistent with Reggie Lewis's blood, leading to William Marshall's arrest as well as a renewed offer to his shuntie and Willie. Detective Sparrow was told me he told my mother that he knew that me and my brother did not commit this crime. He said he knew that we were not there, but he told me he could not help us if we could not help him. He implied to me that if I put myself there and say I saw what happened, he could help me and my brother. But neither I know my brother was willing to put ourselves in that basement to say they could saw something that we didn't see. We was willing to do it. And they basically tell William Marshall. They think it had to have been Willie and a shuntie and they tell William Marshall, you are going to get raped in prison. Your asshole will be the size of a grapefruit. We cannot protect you in adult prison. If you agree to this one year deal in the juvenile detention center and testify against your cousins, you can be done with this. And there's like the family dynamic here. Grandma wants to protect William Marshall, who she is raising. Meanwhile we sort of have black sheep, a creedious two sons and his grandma tells him take the deal. Donald Laster and Sarah Marshall will have a business with him and will not have a business with a shuntie and they will prep in him on what to say and what not to say. and they were getting ready to put this. and fuck us all the way around. - And the statement was carefully crafted to kind of make William into a passive observer that Willie and Ashante dragged Reggie Lewis into the grandma's basement, ordered William to find some twine. William then gave them phone cord and then went upstairs to be a lookout. They tied Reggie up, shot him, ordered William to get some sheets to wrap the body, and then Willie and Ashante dragged the body out to the trunk of a car and William cleaned up the basement. - That day, I had never, ever saw William Marshall. William Marshall never saw me. The only person that saw me that day was Shrine Lane, Ronnie Johnson, Kit Laster, and my grandmother, Sarah Marshall, who saw us for, when she was coming out of the hardware store, which inadvertently solidified my alibi, I feel because if you saw us with these two guys and my aunt saw us at her house with these two guys, that was with us when we dropped this man off, alive and will, why am I going this route? - Willie is tried first, and that's largely because Willie's an adult and Ashante first had to go through the bindover program. He had to be bound over from juvenile court to adult court. William Marshall, because he takes this deal, never gets bound over. He gets a one-year sentence for his role in a murder, and then he's done. But unfortunately for Willie, he didn't have much of a defense. - Oh no, the streets and other suspects was guaranteed that I was convicted for this crime by making sure that nobody, no witnesses came up at my trial. I was naive to believe that you got a subpoena. They know not coming to court. Oh, excuse me. She, 'cause I said subpoenas out to Kit Laster, Washington Blist, so clearance brown. In my mind, it was time to list every voice you're saying. And nobody showed up. - Without an alibi, William Marshall statement went unchallenged. Rather, it was supported by Chanel Owens, who had changed her story to say that Reggie had not gone with the Smiths willingly. So Willie was convicted in September 1995. You gotta put yourself at the time when all this is going on. So it was a little bit of hostility going on because of the OJ situation. You know, in his verdict, it just transpired three days prior to my verdict. You got, you know, CEOs, deputy shares, making comments, even got the judge's timing in about that. Basically everybody felt like he got away with something. So I'm here and you know what this one was. And you know when the jury came back and said that I was guilty of kidnapping, I knew that it was alive. When they said I was not guilty of the first kind of aggravated murder, I was relieved. And then when he went to the third kind of aggravated murder and said I was not guilty of prococulation of the desire and not guilty of the gun specification and not guilty of being the principal offender, I was like, whoa, hold on, that's a lot of not guilty. And then they turned around and went to having a weapon under disability charge and found me not guilty of that as well. And the argument is so with my attorneys with the judge, they was like, hold on, the state theory was that this guy was executed by this guy. And the jury just said to the he didn't have a gun. He's not the main guy. Did I, did not commit this crime with prococulation of the desire, but yet I ended up with a 30-year life sentence. I ended up going to jail for a crime that I didn't commit and that basically a jury of my peers took the gun out of my hands that William Marshall was so willing to put in my hand. - It sounds like there was a conflict among jurors who reached a compromise, but hell of a compromise it was. The result was still 30 to life. And then Ashante went to trial the following spring of 1996. - I was petrified, I'm not gonna be honest with you. I was hooked to lie and trying to take a deal. I was thinking about doing it just to save myself because people do this every single day in this system, just to save themselves. This is how cruel this system is. Well, I went to trial for my brother just so that the truth could get out there that I was thinking I was under disillusion. That if you told the truth, then it's banned. - By the time Ashante went to trial, his family and other alibi witnesses were now willing to testify. - Maybe they thought Willie would be fine because he didn't do it and they didn't need to put themselves out there. And so they didn't show up for him but then when Willie was convicted, they were like, oh, this is our come to Jesus moment. We need to show up for Ashante. I don't know what happened but could be attributable to like more time went by and the family had some time to process what was happening. But by the time Ashante goes to trial, he has uncle Don, kid. He has all of these people coming into testify that Ashante and Willie were with Reggie Lewis but that they left. - We have both of our friends, who split us the entire time. They testified to this as my trial. They testified that they witnessed Mr. Lewis get out of the white car and get into the boot truck with our cousin and his friend. I'm thinking to myself, that okay, if the truth is here, they have to see it now. I'm going to be found in Agility. And I'm thinking that we have some positive ramifications for my brother as well too. No, the officer had to. The prosecutor played it as if our two friends, this was the same as the bar of imagination. Despite the fact that six additional witnesses are saying the same thing. That testified at the trial. - And Grandma trying to play the middle ground, she did. She testified, she sees them on the other side of town. So it couldn't have been them. But the state comes in with her star witness, William Marshall, who has been given the sweetheart deal of a lifetime. - Yeah, you get to understand. And he tells a story that makes absolutely no sense. William Marshall testifies that he and William Ashanty brought Reggie Lewis over to his grandma's house, took him into the basement, tied him up, shot him, killed him, and then took his body to Warren'sville. Now how that all was feasible, how it all went down, there's 1,000 gaps in holes in his testimony. - There is no physical evidence that links me and my brother to that basement. Or two victims of the victims' clothes and the victims' body, no hair fiber, no fingerprints, nothing. - But it was just treated as true. William Ashanty were convicted, and it's essentially been 30 years. - As you come back in, they say you'll kill no charges. And for her, my mother and her sister behind me, and they were stopping. Now her, her mother kept saying, it's not fair. It's not fair. It's just not fair. And then I had them give me, while I knew that my life was a value. I knew that the system did not care at all. I knew the truth, but it's not necessary in bringing about a conviction. Who did it? Did it matter? - Hey, I'm Hota Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hota Kotby. - I've gone through breast cancer and it helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. - Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice, but to be a gymnast. - There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. - Listen to Joy 101 with Hota Kotby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - My husband is currently on vacation with his mistress, and I'm confronting them. - Tell me, Sophia, how did she even catch them? - One Amazon shopping receipt. - He exposed himself? - Couples massages, monogrammed bath robes, and lingerie, he met motor for. - In his luggage, she came to play. - Ooh, she got the mistress live on the phone. That is a bold move. - That it gets worse. He had planned with his wife, and then the mistress tagged him on Facebook, outing the fare to her entire family. - That's like a whole public confession. - And spoiler two years later, karma hit some solo hardies calling his ex-wife into years saying about the mistress, what a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the okay story time podcast on the IHAR radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Hey everybody, it's the Jonas Brothers. This week on the podcast, hey Jonas, we're so excited to be hanging out with Mika Abdullah from the hit show Off Campus. Congratulations on the massive show and massive success. Got through about episode five. I left the next morning to go meet the guys. Came back was a cool, let's pick up where we left off and that series have been completed without me. Oh no, that's like the- number one rule of watching some-- Basically, it's literally cheating, right? That's crazy. We talk about what it's been like watching the show become such a massive hit, what's next for season two, and just how close the off-campus cast really is. We're genuinely so close. What's the group chat called? If you can say, if it's allowed to be set on the on-pot, it's a great question. One of them is off-campus Brazil. OK, love it. Shout out Brazil. Shout out Brazil. And then the boys have their own group chat called Deem's [BEEP] Our conversation with Mika Abdullah is out now. Go check it out. Listen to Hey Jonas and the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm sitting in Lorraine Correctional Institution, which is reception when you come to prison. I'm waiting to be classed to see what prison I'm going to go to and there. You know, it won't be up in the middle of the night. And told me I was going to SOCF, and I've seen all the older guys speak to here for money to cover, because they knew where that was at the time. That's Lucasville. So I'm going maximum security. And you know, you've got to do what you've got to do to survive. You know, my brother, he had to go to Madison, because I think that was where they was housing the juveniles at the time. I stayed in Madison until I was 18 years old, and then they sent me to look at him. I guess after they gave him enough milk, it was time to send him to the big house, too. I want to go place that was petrified, sorry. I'm talking about-- I want to go place that-- that looked like it was one of those old-- I'm just going to show you movies you saw on TV with the bars and the towers and the mean peace guards, and then with the big clubs in the hand, and don't talk-- don't say nothing. You just keep your eyes for it. They just speak to you. Don't speak yet. I just-- that's what I-- that's what was my first and foremost experience. We saw each other, and I'm so proud of my brother, because I saw a lot of guys, his age, come in and be destroyed. Basically, lose their mind. And my brother, he educated himself, and he basically became the man that he is today. And I mean, in a situation like this, I hate to be in it with anybody, but if I had to go through it, I'd rather go through it with one of the strongest people I know. Ashante has even written a book. A book is called "A Life Betray" and it's about me and my brother. And it chronicled my childhood and my early experiences in the home and just growing up in the neighborhood and going to school, my struggles in school, and my discoveries about myself. As far as this case went forward, then how I went to prison, I taught myself how to read, and taught myself how to write, and began to read books. I became a peracious reader, and began to write and study, found my voice. And thanks for the book as a bell. And I've been trying to refine it a little bit to get it together and manage good forms so I can get it out here to the public. If anyone would like to help in that process, we're going to have ways to reach Ashante linked in the episode description. And there's even more to their story that we have time to cover while getting the word out about their innocence, which, of course, they've been fighting to do that ever since their initial appeals about the insufficiency of the evidence, which is almost a possibly high bar after a jury's verdict, and they were denied. Then Willie had the opportunity to get the alibi witnesses available to Ashante on the record, but it appears Kit Laster had even more to say. I was calling home, and my mother was confiding in me that her sister's Kit Laster was having nightmares, and could not get him a good night's sleep, knowing everything that had just happened. It destroyed the family, any trust, or any love for each other, but she did have a conscious where a lot of people did not have a conscious in this situation. And it was sort of foreign where she kept calling my mother, and she's like, I got to do something that she didn't write. And my mother was basically, well, right after David, you know, come for it, tell him what you know. And she did, and she even convinced her husband to come for it. So in 1999, Willie files a post-conviction. He got a hearing on it. My evidentiary hearing that happened in January 3rd, 2000. Off of Davis would present it from Washington clearance. Basically, it tested today with threaten, and you know, that's why they didn't come to court. They came down there and admitted who threatened them. Kit Laster testified to the fact that the night of the murder that her husband, Donald Laster, had confided in her and told her that Reginald Lewis was in fact dead when they hadn't found the body. It's an ape. In open court, you have testimony of witness tampering, and that Don Laster knew about Reggie's death before the body was discovered. It's kind of like in that situation, but it's like a fart. Once you throw it in the room, you can't act like you don't smell it. And then it was denied. The quick summary of it is it wasn't enough to change the outcome of a shuntty's case when it was available to him, so you can't show here that it would be enough to change the outcome of your case. Even though that evidence far exceeded what was available to a shuntay a trial. And then, unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, that hearing was the last positive thing to happen in this story for quite some time. After 21 years, Willie was flopped at the parole board for another eight long years, and then Kim signed on to help a shuntay with his parole. So in 2018, a shuntty started to reach out to me to do a parole packet for him. And he is a profoundly impressive person who went into the system at age 15. He could barely read and write. But now, if he is written for the Colin Post, for the plane dealer, he has developed an initiated and promoted and produced programs within the prison system. If there were a person who exhibited, and arguably he didn't need rehabilitation because he was innocent of this crime, but who has exhibited the rehabilitative function of prison, it would be a shuntay. I didn't even lead with their innocent, because the parole board never wants to hear that. I talked about they deny involvement, and there's the lack of evidentiary support of their involvement, but they do take responsibility for what role he did play in terms of the fight. And thinking there's zero chance as man is not getting parole. And then they were basically like, "Well, you admitted to beating up and kidnapping that man, and now you're denying that you did this." Even though they never admitted to kidnapping. They think the state's theory is the kidnapping happens on Chanel Owens lawn. Even though their statements and Chanel Owens initial statement all said that Reggie Lewis went with them willingly, anyway, parole denied. But by then, I had sunk in my teeth into the case, and I couldn't let it go. It took some time to really develop family relationships, get to understand how this all works together, and William Marshall eventually came forward. Sean's mother died, and that's when William had saw my mother for the first time, sister trials, and broke down, and started crying, and sobbing, and what happened. After that, he probably couldn't sleep, and that's when he came forward. William Marshall wrote in "Affidavid" telling us the truth that he had always known, Ashanti and Willie weren't involved, that they didn't come with him back to his grandma's house with Reggie Lewis, and that he had been bullied and pressured into saying it was them, because basically the police were like, "You will be gang raped every day. Best of luck to you. We're not going to protect you from that. They use the term your asshole will be as big as a grapefruit." And this was something that as a child, he was terrified of. Then he had family members coming and saying like his grandmother, you need to take that deal to protect yourself. He lied against Ashanti and Willie, which I think is obvious without him admitting it, but now with him admitting it, that's the new evidence you need to go forward. He added that it was Uncle Don's brother, Al, who ultimately shot Reggie Lewis. It's not lost on us that he was lying back then, and what would stop him from lying again now. The point is, he never was credible, but there's one big difference. This time, his word was corroborated by everyone else. And so we filed that. I filed it for Ashanti, and the state came back, and there were a couple of defenses, all of them equally preposterous. Well, this affidavit is not believable. One, because it's possible William Marshall is involved in the murder. Therefore, he's not credible. He was credible when he was being bought with his life, which is nowhere in their whole response. They say, "Willie and Ashanti are responsible for the murder." Which to me is the point. We should just win on that. If the state is not confident, writing that down, then they know what we know, which is that they're innocent. Number two, they said, "This affidavit is not believable because there's another defendant in this case, Willie Smith, and he didn't file this affidavit, which means it's not believable." I respond and say, "Willie Smith doesn't have counsel. I will happily represent him." I sent a letter to Willie Smith saying, "Do you mind if I represent you?" In your innocence claim, of course he's, "No, I do not mind. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you." And we start to represent him. And then the state suddenly is, "You have a conflict. You can't represent both of these people." And called us in, like literally this prosecutor gets in my face about this conflict. And I'm like, "It's not your conflict to race. You don't have standing to raise it. I don't know why we're here in court. I don't know what your point is, but you don't have standing to raise it. Willie can raise it. Ashanti can raise it, but they didn't. They waved it. And here we are. And so both of them were denied without a reason. Just flat out denied by the court. And we took it to the court of appeals. and do one that appeal. We were all doing quite literally a happy dance in our office when we got to call them both. The state filed for reconsideration, those were dismissed. And now we're looking forward to having our day in court and bringing these guys home. >> The state still needs to exhaust all of their appeals in order to have a hearing in which the state's only evidence is no longer available. >> How these prosecutors could literally read a case where the only evidence is now being recanted and say it doesn't even warrant a two hour hearing? >> Right, unless they persist in continuing to disingenuously posit that these men admitted to kidnapping Reggie Lewis on Chanel Owens is lawn, which they simply did not do. So with that, we're going to go to closing arguments where first of all, I'm just going to tell you guys, I appreciate you so much for sharing this story. I know it's not easy and we're all just hoping for justice in this case. And now I'm going to turn my microphone off and kick back in my chair and just listen. Anything else you want to say, Kim, let's kick it off with you and then a shunt day and Willie, if you could take us off into the sunset. >> My final thoughts on the matter are that we're getting our day in court finally. We would love to fill the courtroom with support. Hit me up on my Instagram at Kimla Crimla. If you have any information about this, if you want to show support in some way, but it's important that we engage the community so that we can let these elected officials know that we both are entitled to and expect that justice and due process be served. >> I have to say that this has been taxing, sir. Never in my wildest imagination, whatever I ever thought I would be in a situation like this. Also to have my relatives to be the people that will be conspiring the against us. You know, it's hard wrenching truly it was and I'm telling you to be in here throwing away some of the 50 years old in this place. This is very, this is a practice to me of everything sacred, which is my humanity, which is my decent thing. This is my self respect and I watch every day people lose that. I watch me lose themselves every single day. I've been fighting, resisted and I'm tired and my brother's tired. My mother's tired and it's time for justice, time for truth and justice. That's what we're fighting for. That's what we're striving for, the truth and justice. I will pray in the hope that anyone that is decent and kind and that wants to live in a society that's just and equitable and fair will want to participate in this process to help me and my brother. We claim our freedom because it's just our right. We should never lost to begin. That's all I have to say. But today, well, I guess I'm a quote, Dr. King, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. If he was injustice is taking place in this case between me and my brother and you know, I know it's covered in shit. But somebody got to be brave enough to work to shovel. And I'll leave you with that. Thank you for listening to "Romphal Conviction." You can listen to this and all the Lava For Good podcasts one week early by subscribing to Lava For Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers, Jeff Campler, Kevin Wartus, and Jeff Clyburn. The music in this production was supplied by three-time Oscar-nominated composer, J. Rouse. Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms at Lava For Good and @RomphalConviction. You can also follow me on Instagram @it'sjasonflomphalconviction is a production of Lava For Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company number one. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hota Kotby. My husband is a despot reserved with his mistress right now and I'm calling the hotel to confront them both. Wait a minute Dakota, she's calling the hotel while they're checked in together. And it gets worse. It's vacate the vacation week on the Ok Storytime podcast where she caught him buying gifts on Amazon and then taped the 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. And spoiler, Sophia, two years later, karma hits so hard he's calling his ex-wife in tears, saying about his mistress. To find out what happened, listen to the Ok Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers. And this week we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of. Millie Bobby Brown. We talk about her new movie and all of home's three family life and all the amazing things she has going on right now. Plus we find out what she really feels about this ranger thing, Xander. I don't know where the number 60 I really got to figure that out. Yeah, I like that. Literally sleeping in the bed. Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.