Speaker 1this week maggie and i are going to be chatting about working with people with eating disorders or disordered eating and this stuff back of a new course that you've created for us maggie so maybe you could start there with a little bit of an overview about what's included in the course and then we'll obviously have a very concise version that we'll shout about here because otherwise the podcast will go on for
Speaker 2quite some time quite some time yeah um so yes it's a course which is designed for personal trainers and fitness professionals um to understand uh eating disorders and disordered eating um and i separate the two because eating disorders are diagnosable mental health conditions um and uh disordered eating would fall outside of that diagnosable category but can still cause um severe um mental health distress um and so are incredibly important to understand too um and this is not a course that is designed to help people treat them obviously um but i think sometimes what we do as personal trainers if we see something outside of our scope of practice we become a little bit scared of it um because it's outside of our scope of practice and so leave it well alone whereas actually i think with something like this it can't be left well alone because the people are arriving at your door and they may well be people who have a history of eating disorders or potentially um in an active eating disorder and to be able to recognize see that and know what to do with that um without treating it is a really important thing for us um you know if we're going to be able to really coach people sensitively and compassionately and also within our scope of practice i think you have to really understand that there's a lot of things that we need to understand why something is in and outside of your scope of practice and fully understand the background behind it to then be able to know whether you are inside your scope of practice and eating disorders and disorders is a tricky because the fitness industry is sometimes unknowingly majoritively i'd say unknowingly um a space which can reinforce them um and so we do need to i think have a good understanding of it so that's why the course was developed um then it goes through a few different elements it looks at what eating disorders are um which we look at in terms of the diagnosable criterias um so that's just a background obviously again we're not using it to diagnose um but it helps us to understand so we look at um sort of the the more common eating disorders should we say things like anorexia nervosa bulimia nervosa we looked at binge eating disorder and then we look at ones that are maybe less heard of uh but are quite common so osped which is other specified feeding or eating disorders and arford which is avoidant restrictive food intake disorder um we've talked previously about neurodivergences um and there is a course about that as well in lift the bar but they cross over particularly the arford um and neurodivergences um and then we kind of get into the issues that people might struggle with um even if they are looking for diabetes or have been for diagnosis or even have a history of a diagnosed disorder uh why they might not get diagnosed and what that means for them and for us um and then the things that actually are practical things that we as pts might want to look out for which are red flags for someone displaying any form of disordered eating um and what we can do about that within our scope of practice um and what it means for us as well as pts and and there is a part in it to be honest towards the end where we actually look at being a pt and potentially having to check in with our own behaviors and thoughts and potential biases um around this area as well because we are not immune to it either in fact potentially research tells us that we are actually even more at risk of it than the general population so there's
Speaker 1a lot in the course and it's a great course obviously i've been through it so uh it was it was very interesting very useful and i think that i guess one of the places to start and this does as you mentioned cross over to the the previous um discussion we had about the neurodivergent conditions and that is when it comes to diagnosis and the criteria which is obviously it's the same basis for for each of those right and all the potential problems with that and then i think the the problem we have with the eating disorders and disordered eating is that it feels like something that we can do more damage with and i think that's part of the reason why um quite understandably i think a lot of us have had that kind of fear almost that it's not something we want to go anywhere near but then when you have somebody in front of you who might be saying or they have this this eating disorder or they've had this in the past or they've had this in the past and they've had this eating disorder or they've had this eating disorder all that your response is is panic basically oh my god what do i do i can't avoid you you're stood in front of me how do i respond what do i say how do i make sure that i'm not making things worse and on top of the do i want to work with you can i work with you it all becomes very complex and scary and so this course will hopefully give people those kind of tools and a bit of the framework to be able to respond appropriately yet they've still got the choice about whether they choose to work with you or not and so i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point with people um as well as the the tools to know whether they should or shouldn't be working with someone where they can work with them maybe on one area but where they should be careful and all of that kind of stuff so it's got a lot of practical information in it as well as the the sort of almost back the way is background because as you say we're not going to be diagnosing people so we don't need to know the diagnostic criteria off the top of our heads but if we understand what it is we can understand where people are and we can understand where people are and we can understand might fall outside of that but still be something that we need to be aware of right when we're working with people and keep that awareness and uh and make sure that we're not doing damage in who we're working with yeah
Speaker 2exactly and what i don't want pts to be is scared that um you know they could harm somebody um in their coaching um because they've got an eating disorder and they don't know or anything like that like it's the same with anything on this that if you've got awareness and understanding around this topic then you are more likely to be able to notice any signs um and patterns that might be arising with a client in front of you and more likely to therefore then know how to address what you're seeing in a safe way um and and in a compassionate way and to know what next steps might be to help that client which is essentially at the end of the day all that we're looking for and equally as well you know if someone is coming to you and they do disclose that they have a past eating disorder history um then knowing how it is you can work with this client um in a way that is safe for them and not scary for you um and what we don't want it to be is scary for anybody um like it doesn't have to be but i do think that one of the key things we probably have to identify first and foremost is why in the fitness industry in particular it might be something that is less likely to go unnoticed and unchecked than potentially in other areas and the key reason for that is that we've never really actually addressed i think the background of bodybuilding that exists in our fitness industry it drives a lot of the purpose and goals and marketing that still sits behind the things that we do and therefore a lot associated with aesthetics in particular and and that's you know encroached into weight loss and so actually our industry is very often um built upon this idea of you come into it to lose weight to build muscle to change the way you look to create a particular aesthetic it's about sculpting and toning and all those words are there for a reason right they come from a place and whilst for clients none of that is an issue that for clients who do have body image issues or food and exercise struggles um and they have patterns which are causing them distress and that's the key to this here being able to notice that somebody is anxious or distressed or obsessed or any of those things that cross it over into a harmful place as opposed to disciplined or um being able to stay motivated and reach their goals you know they're two different areas that someone can fall into and i think it can be challenging sometimes to see whether somebody is on one side of that coin or the other side of that coin um and so the course is partly as well about that how do we know that there is an element that in that person's behavior in that person's assessors in the way that person is um approaching exercise and food intake that says this is safe this is okay they're fine they're okay they're just getting on with their life it's background noise to them they're motivated in achieving a specific goal and they'll be fine with it too actually they are anxious they're depressed they're struggling they're isolating themselves they're they're constantly thinking about food they're worrying whether they're doing something right or wrong they're guilt and shame ridden you know what what is the difference and and a lot of it actually in the course is simply about that about being able to notice the way someone talks about themselves about exercise about missing exercise sessions um how are they talking about the way they're eating or the way they're sticking to your plan or not as the case may be because all of those things are the way they're sticking to your plan or not as the case may be because all of those things actually are the difference and whilst it can be subtle sometimes it's not and we still miss it because we work in an industry that praises a lot of the time i'm just going to be straight with it disorder as discipline so i think it's about really checking in with why do we think that way why haven't we addressed those biases which is what they are essentially and a lot of it is just to do with the way that the industry is evolving and the way that the industry is evolving through its history but also to do with the fact that it is connected in with you know sales of a very profitable industry which is weight loss um and how can we separate ourselves from that and see the person in front of us and the things that they need and then coach them rather than coaching a particular way or with a particular process or will i always do things like this and it works or even stepping outside of that well it works for me because i think all of those things also there's a lot of us and i include myself in it who came into um ptn because we ourselves lost weight and were successful with it and so it can be very easy to kind of get blindsided by what actually did that mean what does it mean still um and yeah so a lot of it is simply about being well not simply it's not it's not easier uh but it's about being able to see that person and to be able to recognize signs and patterns which which are things that we can draw you know we can pinpoint we have literature and evidence and research that says these things are signs and patterns to be wary of and when you notice them this is what you can do about
Speaker 1it on the surface a lot of it can look the same right whether it's somebody who is following some kind of um set of behaviors in a healthy way um and somebody who's following the same things on the surface but it's having a harmful impact on them and their mental health and as a result of that other parts of their their life and all of that kind of stuff and because we i think some of the the stuff comes from like if you're working with somebody on weight loss for example the we learn everything from a scientific point of view you know the theoretical point of view because that's how you have to learn it right these are the things that work you want to lose weight you need a calorie deficit you get to a and all of that is great and then the difficulty comes when we're kind of working with a person who interprets things differently and who for whom different language can mean different things or the same language can mean different things and how they've internalized what somebody else has said and what their history's been like and all of those kind of things that can mean that yeah on the surface you can look at two people eating exactly the same things doing the same kind of exercise and and go well they're both doing the same thing and that's where the danger comes because as pts we're sort of like normally looking for that they're getting the outcomes they wanted and it's like round of applause this is all good it's all going in the right direction but it's easy to miss the underlying kind of um thought processes behind some of those behaviors or some of the things that are slightly more hidden perhaps and it's kind of knowing what to look out for
Speaker 2exactly so like as a really good example one element um which is considered to be a key sign of disordered eating is rigid food food rules and binary thinking okay so that is the idea of so binary thinking is this is good this is bad this is clean this is dirty so things being opposing ideas and only that existing um which we all know people who do we might even do it ourselves i'm not in that that's bad oh never eat that or oh i'm being good today like we all talk like that human beings talk like that but it's the difference between that being something that has a it is a client's preference and a lifestyle choice against they cannot allow themselves to eat it it has become something that causes them anxiety if they're in a situation where that is the only choice they can make so it's listening to things and i'm saying like you're at an airport really good example right especially a smaller one and all there is is um to eat is um like i don't know cheese and hamburger and they they consider the cheese and the baguette to be bad food and so they choose to eat nothing because that is the only option they've got and they go hungry and they ignore those hunger cues and they force it through and it causes them distress because they're hungry and they don't know when they're going to eat yet and it takes over their entire thinking that is a rigidity and that comes from binary thinking there was no flexibility with that whatsoever for the situation that they found themselves in and so the question always in in that sort of situation is is there a rule that can be broken because it has flexibility within it for that person or is deviation from that rule actually so severe that it causes them visible distress or it causes them guilt or shame or they're still thinking about it a week on that they ate that baguette and they shouldn't have done that and they're a bad person for it and if you're working one-to-one with these people that's often what you will start to hear like i'm still thinking about that too i can't get over the fact that i ate i shouldn't have done i've still i've ruined it all those kinds of language that language is rigid thinking inflexibility around food and if it continues unchecked you can very easily build into distress and anxiety for that person and so that is really what we're looking at here is what do i see beneath the behavior and and this is why i think pts get a little bit confused and caught up like oh well you know i i do this and i don't have disorder d and no you don't because actually you don't have any distress or concern or worry around it and that's the key difference that's the only difference what distress is this causing and if even if it's a low level amount of it that has the potential to build if it goes unchecked so listening into how people talk about things the way they talk about themselves the way they talk about their behaviors is really the way that we hear whether or not that is something that is distressing or whether it is something that is a lifestyle choice and flexible and it's absolutely fine because actually in the same situation let's talk about lifestyle choice i could be let's talk about from lifestyle choice rather than a medical one but i could be like vegan for example could be in that same situation that i cannot eat that cheese and hamburger and then but i would be making a choice then and i would maybe potentially be looking out for other things that i could eat on the plane or something like that or there'd be other ways around it or i might have thought in advance oh do you know what might be tricky they do love the ham in france i don't know if that's true um what i'll do is i'll make sure i've got some snacks with me either and so that's a person that's actually thinking about it thinking ahead because they planned their life around this but it doesn't cause them any distress so it's it's a different way of looking at that behavior around food yeah and i think
Speaker 1sort of alongside that something i in the course is that sort of addressing of stereotypes because i do think there's this thing if you say somebody with an eating disorder um probably for the majority of people the image that comes to mind is a very thin young girl normally that's the sort of image that comes that sort of is the um a typical stereotype that goes with anorexia nervosa right and it's almost like well if somebody doesn't look like that then they can't have an eating disorder whereas in reality people could look any shape size um gender uh racial background anything and it's still have an eating disorder it's not something that only kind of comes in to play when somebody is dangerously underweight or overweight or in the any of the extremes right yeah
Speaker 2absolutely in fact one of the key reasons despite being one of the most dangerous mental health disorders that exists and one of the most prevalent is actually the the key leading mental health um disorder which kills and so it's very very serious but the problem is that the stereotypes we've attached to it have been underway exist in a medical field as much as they exist in a societal field um and these aren't just stereotypes that are perpetuated by the media and things like that these are stereotypes that exist because our understanding of eating disorders is still really underdeveloped. um we still don't really have good enough treatment for it we still don't really have uh good enough research like you mentioned there are minorities who are particularly at risk of eating disorders and are understudied um but also men you know when we look at gender are understudied in terms of eating disorders and the prevalence of eating disorder amongst men is believed to be growing prevalence of eating disorders amongst young people is growing um and has been since covid and so understanding why is also important i think and the again we go back to we've talked about this in a couple of sessions really on the podcast but the the diagnosis is not done by someone being able to run an unobjective i'm sorry an objective test which just gives you results back like oh you've broken your leg here's an x-ray oh broken leg yes there you go diagnosed this is something that relies on someone's interpretation of what they see but then also that interpretation has to be from talking to the person and that person also having an understanding of what their behaviors are but also the emotional response that they're experiencing to that and also the behavioral response to that and then being able to understand it to some degree and also communicate that so now we have language that comes into it as a necessity whether that's having the ability to being able to express yourself at high enough level for an intellectual to understand what you're saying or whether it's a language barrier of actual you know differences between countries and the language that we speak together it's there's so many barriers that get in the way of it and because we only in recent times really in the last 30 years started to understand that there's there's more than two really even binge eating disorder was only um introduced in the last 20 years there's more than two eating disorders and they don't actually look like a thin white adolescent girl um but actually we've started to expand our understanding of it our research of it and therefore our treatment of it but treatment still requires a diagnosis and diagnosis is still based in diagnostic um statistical manuals and they are still written primarily by white western educated men so essentially what we don't have is really an understanding of it across cultures and understanding of it across genders and understanding of it across ethnicities across even um in terms of an understanding of it um in terms of the the way in which the experience of it from variety of different people can differ but that doesn't mean it's not an eating disorder so much so that even in the diagnostic criteria now there's other specified eating disorders because essentially um it doesn't always fit the clear categories of anything else but there is still significant distress and there is still other things that go alongside that that are impacting a person's life significantly and that they need treatment and support for but even when it gets diagnosed that doesn't mean that you get treatment and support because it is again we go back to the issue of funding and particularly in this country but mental health services are underfunded and so it doesn't mean that in your area in which you live you actually will necessarily receive nhs um support for your eating disorder and even though when you do honestly there's still a lot of weight bias and weight stigma in the treatment of eating disorders so it can have any look to it it can have any gender to it it can be any person you know can have an eating disorder and it may be that even a client who comes to you did not have that when they started but something has changed something has happened since and that has has moved into it and although a lot we don't even again we don't really understand why eating disorders occur a lot of the time it's not connected to eating and exercise at all and it's more connected to control or trauma or neurodivergences it's so many reasons why someone might develop an eating disorder but equally we also know that dieting is a key indicator of someone to later develop disordered eating or eating disorder bearing in mind disordered eating is simply something that can happen to someone who has a disorder of eating disorder something that doesn't quite meet a clinical criteria doesn't mean the person's not still in distress it just means they didn't tick all the boxes that the white western man came up with
Speaker 1and so it's very complex and i suppose one of the other things to consider is the fact that although through its name you might feel like this is just something that's going to impact me if i do stuff with nutrition it also can cross over in terms of physical activity because that can be one of the compensatory behaviors that people use if they have an eating disorder so it's not something where we can just go well i don't work with anyone on nutrition so i'm not going to come across this it's something to potentially be aware of with with people that we're working with uh regardless of that right
Speaker 2absolutely so like you said it's compensatory behavior exercise people who are so the eating disorder is always going to be around reducing your weight unless it's the um it's offered the um avoidant restrictive food intake disorder that's the one there we go so that is slightly different that's usually not around weight loss that can come up as a variety of different things like i said often linked to neurodivergences could be textures of food could be a fear around certain foods could be linked to trauma um and that has connected into food but for osped binge eating disorder bulimia anorexia all of those things in the diagnostic criteria they are all connected to weight loss to the idea of reducing one's weight or reducing one's weight or reducing one's weight or reducing one's size in some way um and i think actually we could probably extend that these days into um wanting to um to build muscle like that that kind of um idea that um young skinny lads wanting to look muscular and then getting a body image um distress around that because they don't look the right way there and particularly around exercise that might show itself um that muscular dysphoria is gonna maybe show you somebody that's going to be able to do that and that's going to who is exercising through illness or injury or exhaustion because they are so desperate to reach their goal of that body aesthetic um that there might be you might notice significant distress or there's guilt or panic if they miss a session or one's cancelled um they might be really really punishing themselves with exercise i did this and therefore i need to and actually we all know the around burning it off making sure you get rid of those calories that you've just eaten or you can do that if you go for a run that is compensatory behavior now for some people that's fine and it doesn't cross over into anything disordered at all again it could be like oh i had a big meal and i'm going for a run to make myself feel better about it full stop done what happens if that person can't go for a run what happens if that person's run doesn't actually ever get to a point where it can compensate for the amount that they eat and now they're feeling anxious about it and they can't get rid of that what happens if next and that's always again your questions around it how is the person how are you dealing with those thoughts around but i can't and if you can't does it cause you in some way some kind of distress shame guilt anxiety and depression like what is it causing um and it can happen with exercise just as much as it can happen with someone using food in that way so yeah i think it's really important to look out for how someone is dealing with their exercise routine and whether or not they are again same thing is it flexible or is it rigid because life needs to be flexible and we need to be flexible because stuff happens that we couldn't possibly ever plan in advance how does that person respond to that and and can they shift and change and flex with it or do they get distressed because they are so rigid around it it couldn't possibly move away from it and that is a sign of disorder so you know
Speaker 1i guess that's probably a good thing good time to sort of cross over a little bit more into what we do and just making sure that we're not creating sets of rules that don't have flexibility in them that we are kind of very aware of life um for our clients and how things do need to have some sort of flexibility in it and that's not saying that we follow a strict flexible dieting plan that's that's kind of got a label to it like that but the whatever it is that we're talking about whether that's about frequency of exercise or uh about nutrition planning of any kind that we've we're kind of normalizing the fact that plans change and that there isn't a crisis because you can't follow this plan that you've come up with or um that the world doesn't end because you haven't managed to get your session in and that kind of stuff and that we don't don't create these problems
Speaker 2absolutely but i do think that before we can do that and i speak from personal experience here we have to address whether we truly believe that so i used to be able to hold up clients as going well this person has three kids and a full-time job and she still always manages to get in xxx sessions and stick to her plan and and and and i because i saw that as something that was praiseworthy something that was showed me discipline and motivation no matter what to what she was committed. actually that was a bias of my own which was that actually this is what discipline and commitment looks like this is what is most what motivation is actually it's not it's rigidity and if you are listening to this and kind of thinking yeah but also then maybe maybe you have rigid thinking because I know I did and I had it around my own lifestyle as then I obviously um perpetuated that onto the way I looked at my clients as well so that that projection was there and so you can't project you have to kind of step back and go what do I believe do I believe that life needs to be flexible do I believe that things shift and change and sometimes things are out of our control do I believe that it's okay to change things up to miss a session and to step away from those food rules when it's required and necessary do I believe that these things take time and it's not about being perfect it's about being to be able to shift and change with things so that we can still enjoy life and enjoy family and enjoy friends and reach our goals at the same time what do I believe because if you don't believe those things you will project that onto your clients and in all honesty those things are rigid thinking and they might not be causing you distress and you might be fine with that but if you're looking at your clients and you're like oh my god I don't know what to do with this client expecting the same things from them and seeing some kind of shame or guilt or that cycle of distress that's being caused by it then it's not working for them they are not looking at this stuff in the same way you're looking at it and potentially that's because their life is just not yours it's completely different um but maybe it's causing you distress and you don't realize because it did me I realized that in the end so it's it is about looking inward I think before we can look outward if you listen to what you just said and you heard you're not looking inward you're not yeah of course then yeah absolutely you're in the right place now start see if your clients are actually doing that same thing but if you listen to what Claire just said and when there's nothing wrong with that there might be some work to do where you look inwards first and start thinking about that because that is a bias our lives are different our lives and we as people are different and the way we handle things are different and we need to be able to see and to recognize and to support other people in doing things that work for them and we need to be able to see and to that may well be absolutely different to what works for us and then also that brings up the way we hear people talking about themselves so you know if when when that client is unable to flex and move with something and now they're saying that they uh that they're useless and they don't want to be around people and they're just going to hibernate for a bit just so they achieve this goal and and and and and you're now again you're seeing signs that they're withdrawing from society that they're isolating themselves that there's anxiety there there's a shame there that then you want to follow it through um because life should be flexible a hundred percent should be flexible we need to be able
Speaker 1to move with that yeah so um let's say we um we'd notice something we have some concerns what's the next step around that
Speaker 2right well we don't say I think you have an eating disorder um so I think there's little ways in which is essentially just um in the course what I've done is I've kind of picked out a few things that you might be able to say to open a conversation that's quite light um and just sort of addresses things so I do think you've got to make sure you're in the right space uh and it's the right time for it you can't just have a conversation with someone um about something as potentially intimate as this um but they they might choose to say oh yeah I am struggling um and have that in front of everybody else and so make sure it's private enough make sure you've got enough time if they do actually say to you oh yeah actually I'm quite sad at the moment um make sure you're ready for that conversation um you know are you ready for actually uh I'm struggling with that um and you've got to make sure as well that the client is gonna trust you you are a person that they can be honest with because otherwise I mean say that what you're probably not going to do straight away is have a conversation that just goes straight in and they say to you yeah I'm really struggling and I'm really upset about things and what can you do to help me that's not how conversations go but what you do want to do is make sure that if they do say something you have the time to be able to sit down and to make sure that they feel okay by the time they leave um you're also obviously not going to offer them any support with it yourself because you are not the person who can provide support with it but what you can do is help them to know that that what they feel is first of all like normal without minimizing it like it's not minimal oh god everyone does that it's not that it's yeah oh that sounds really hard um you know and I I think that I know a few people who struggle in that way too um you know when have you started like feeling that way um do you want to tell me more about it do you want to tell me more about it do you want to tell me more about it um like just opening a conversation where they can kind of say oh yeah I'm really struggling with this and then it might be as simple as do you know what maybe these maybe we've given you some really rigid rules that just aren't working for you and it's causing you some distress because it just doesn't work like you're not necessarily opening a client a conversation with somebody and um they're gonna you know divulge a full eating disorder to you that's quite unlikely what they are going to do is tell you about some of the things they're finding difficult and you might then say like okay do you think there's something I can help with that or are there anything you think might help with that or have you had any counseling with that or have you spoken to anyone else about this so there's lots of ways in that are not and now I will help you solve this um and that's the only thing really you shouldn't say like there are many things that we can respond to someone with compassion with that recognize that that's hard or that's difficult or that must be um you know quite um challenging for you and to recognize that they they are finding things hard um but not offering to do anything about it like that's just not your place um I think we all know how to have these conversations with our friends if a friend came up to you and said I'm struggling with this um you know even if you felt really awkward about having the conversation you'd probably go next to something like oh have you talked to anyone else about it you know it's it's the same kind of space that you're looking at and you're like oh I don't know what to do with this I don't know what to do with it um if you are noticing it and you're not sure they've had these little things you can say like like that's a lot of pressure you're putting on yourself about the food last weekend like why do you think you're um putting all that pressure on yourself is it not normal just to let go and eat at birthday parties I do that normalizing it I do that you know that's something I would do like I don't think you should feel ashamed about it at all why do you think you feel ashamed about it you can get curious you can kind of ask questions and and just that moment of as well connecting with someone where we say we we do it too and this is where I said that's why you kind of have to address yourself first because if you are also a person who might go to a birthday party um eat something you shouldn't have done or would never eat something at all at the birthday party that wasn't on your rigid food rule list um then you might struggle talking to them about the fact that it's quite a because it is a normal thing to do it is it just is it's normal this weird perfectionism that we have in fitness culture is not a normal thing it is something that exists in fitness culture um and I think it exists in other spaces as well like that whole hustle culture um and uh like you know there was a podcaster recently wasn't it he ruined his life with two glasses of wine or something like that um but essentially I think that this idea of perfectionism is something that can tie people up and if we can say you know what I'm not perfect I I would have done that too that's okay we all let go sometimes you don't have to be on it all the time you can go for a run that's all right you weren't feeling well that's okay you know if you if you can bring it up in those kind of ways and normalize it and then also make it relatable to who you are as a person as well that can really help so the thing you don't want to do is catastrophize it oh my goodness you did what um or minimize it oh yeah we all struggle with that whatever moving on if you hear something just give them a chance to open the door have a chat about how it makes them feel and then normalize it or hear something that red um flags a little wavy red one to you and uh and kind of say like that actually sounds quite distressing have you spoken to anyone else about this um you know I think it might be handy to for you to explore that in a little more detail um and then and that depends on how much trust and relationship you've got with a client whether you could go down those lines really but you the only thing you can do wrong
Speaker 1is treat it absolutely is there anything else that you that we haven't covered that you feel is important on this topic other than of course to do the course that you've created
Speaker 2that is what they need to do. But the course actually kind of goes into if we're not fixing how are we doing it and there's a bit of sort of um support there on the active listening on words that are helpful in conversations um you know language you generally avoid if you want to avoid triggering someone who is potentially in that space with disordered eating or an eating disorder um and language that can be useful in actually opening out plus there's some resources at the end so if you do want to read more about it you want to understand more about it um there's a recent um systematic review and a study that was done actually specifically around personal trainers and their relationship with food and exercise which is very interesting to have a look at and that's included in the resources as well um but yeah i'd say go and do the course thank you very much you
PodcastTranscript AI