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Speaker 2Welcome back to the album years. Yes folks, we like albums, not for us the Spotify playlist or the best of, right Tim? We like those deep cuts that no one else cares about these days. So myself Steve Wilson and my co-host Timothy bonus, hello, and today we are talking about 1985. 1985? The year of Live Aid. Indeed. Do you remember where you were? I do remember exactly where I was. I was rehearsing with my heavy metal band Paradox while I was on. I remember that very, very well.
Speaker 3I was in Felix, though, with Robert Cox, the composer. There you go.
Speaker 2Well, rehearsing with the heavy metal band hanging out with a serious composer. I'll leave you to decide who's cooler. So listen, I always thought, now I always had, you know, sometimes you get that kind of idea in your head and it just becomes part of your personality and it's very hard to disabuse yourself of this notion. And my notion about Live Aid was always that it killed the 80s. Yeah. That after Live Aid music became worthy and a bit dull. But of course, it's not the case. It's all, in fact, some of my favourite 80s albums came after Live Aid, colourous spring, seeds of love, Victoria land, skylarking. But was there a sense that Live Aid was a bit of a sort of, I mean, it comes right in the middle of the 80s, doesn't it? Yeah. And there is correct me if I'm wrong. Or if you feel differently, there is a sort of sense of the tide changing post Live Aid, isn't there?
Speaker 3Well, 85, I was about to say, you know, 84 to me and 83, you know, a lot of this kind of post punk era seem like worlds of possibilities. And I remember being really excited by some albums in 84 in particular where I thought this can go further. And indeed it did, you know, artists like talk, talk, Sylvie and Laurie Anderson even Scott Walker. Get a morning
Speaker 2term. Get all the drinking guys. I'm not in Australia.
Speaker 3I want it someone now with their whiskey. One, two, three, four. They're already drunk. They've already gone. They've gone past the beginning. Which means they're going to enjoy it a lot. But I thought these artists were going to kind of progress. This was the future of music in some way. And 85, I remember at the time, it feeling a little more dull, a little more mainstream. And Live Aid was the cherry on that mainstream cake. And that cake had a decoration of Phil Collins' grinning face on it.
Speaker 2Well, it's a bit unfair on Phil. We're going to talk about Phil later. But it's funny, isn't it Live Aid? Everyone now remembers Queen, don't they at Live Aid? But yeah. And they were amazing. But I think that there was a more significant performance at Live Aid. One that kind of sets in with Phil Collins. No, not that one. One that kind of set the tenor for the rest of the 80s. And it's you too. Okay. Because I feel that after Live Aid, a lot of these bands wanted to be you too. Do you know what I mean by that?
Speaker 3Yeah. And I think this is what I remember at the time. I remember sort of doing auditions for bands, I remember getting in a band that were in Ernston. And they were you too meet simple minds. Like I turned this down because they were excellent musicians, really nice people. But they were a bit like Radiohead's impact in the late 90s. There's almost like every four piece wanted to be you too or maybe simple minds. And this was a good example of that. Where as good as the music was, it was an absolute, you know, homage to what was going on in the mainstream at the time, which was, you know, you too in a rock sense.
Speaker 2Yeah. I mean, less, less week lead people to think otherwise. I mean, I love you too. And I love simple minds.
Speaker 3I haven't forgot the fire was a great album in 84.
Speaker 2Joshua Tree is a masterpiece, I think. And some of the simple, we're going to talk about the simple minds out from the sheet, which I love to once upon a time. But there was a sense that they were the shiny new model that everyone responded to and it didn't always work out for everyone. Interestingly, I was just making some notes earlier about this year. There are a lot of the sort of seminal 80s bands didn't release albums in 85. They released albums in 84 and 86. But for some reason, 85 is like a bit of a dead spot around around, spanned up ballet, culture club, ultra-vox, depression mode, human league, the ham. The ham? We've got nothing to talk about. We have to get him in anyway. Yeah, nothing. Nothing from Bowie in 85. Nothing from Gabriel. Well, other than the
Speaker 3soundtrack, I think the Gabriel and Sylvie did the soundtrack.
Speaker 2We are going to talk about the Gabriel's soundtrack. But what I'm saying is a lot of the quintessential 80s synth pop neuromantic bands, 85 didn't release anything.
Speaker 3It seemed dead. I remember that sensation living through it. It was almost like people spoke about 76 and 75. As in some ways, you know, the whole kind of underground psychedelic jazz explosions of the 60s, early 70s, R&B even, had just kind of ossified into something more stately and more mainstream. And as I've said, I distinctly remember 85 feeling at that. And yet when I looked at the list, I realized I probably bought about a hundred of these. Yeah, did too. Yeah. On vinyl, mainly. Yeah. We're going to talk about those records later, but
Speaker 2let's start with our rundown of 1985, then Tim. Perhaps a much misunderstood year, at least if nothing else by us at the time. And we're going to start with the sort of mainstream or the category that you've called colossi. Yeah. The big mainstream pop artist. Now, the first one on this list might be, in many ways, the quintessential 1985 album because not because of the music, not because of the band, but because of the formats. Let me explain what I mean by that. Diastrates, brothers and arms came out of 1985. A massive record. Right record. But why is it significant? Because it was the first album to sell more than a million units on the shiny new format, compact disk. And in a sense, that's interesting because 85 was a watershed moment for two reasons. Live 8 on one hand. And the fact that CD seemed to over the course of this year, and I'm sure it's not as simple as this, but it seems like this in retrospect. CD seemed to become the dominant format in this year, taking over from vinyl. And brothers and arms was the first album that everybody buying their new CD player. Yeah. Of course, I'm generalizing, but it felt like the brothers and arms was the first album you would go and buy to show off your player.
Speaker 3I kind of remember because I didn't have CD player until '89, '90. And I think even I was ahead of the curve with a lot of my friends who were still very much in the vinyl and cassette. I kind of see the shift overwhelmingly to CD really by about '91 because if you think about it by 1990, even '92, cassette was arguably the best selling medium actually, because cassettes were what people played in cars. So they were huge. But yeah, I think you're right, it was significant. And I think for whatever reason that album became the one, you know, a bit like Dark Side of the Moon was the thing you tested your high-fi on in '83. Brothers and R's. 73. 73. Yeah. Dark Side of the Moon '73, I know that.
Speaker 2I mean, it was still selling bucket loads in '80s to be fair, but it's now, obviously, as we know. Yeah. And it's a good record. I mean, it is a record which isn't kind of audio files record. It sounds beautifully, produces beautifully recorded. It has great songs on it, has great playing on it. But again, for me, it's slightly symptomatic of 1985 being more about worthy music than shoot truly exciting, innovative music. And I'm a massive fan, for example, of the previous Star Strait Show. I could love over go.
Speaker 3I really liked the previous one. Yeah. And I think that that was a great example of about, yeah, that was unexpected because it was a lot more ambitious atmosphere, an unexpected, and yeah, and the single, I mean, the single private investigation. Well, it's sort of, yeah, amazing. Peace of work to be so big. And I thought, I remember being disappointed with this at the time, it had a much more orthodox sound. Money for nothing's been
Speaker 2irritating, isn't it? It is. It's a bit, it's still be tight. It is, it's still be, yeah. I mean, to be fair, I think that's what they were going for. They're kind of zzz, they were trying to, you know, tap into that zzz top demographic and did it very successfully. Of course they did. So it's, I think for me, as you say, I'm probably, I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than I remember, but it seemed to me like 85 was the year that we went from vinyl to CD. And as I say, it probably isn't as straightforward as that. And as you say, it probably took at the best part of the next five years for that really, that process to be completed. But it felt like that process began in earnest with albums like Brothers and Arms. Well, particularly this,
Speaker 3right? Everything felt more stayed more responsible. More worthy. Yeah, more worthy and less thrilling.
Speaker 2So let's go through some of the other albums on this list. Phil Collins, No Jacket Required, The Philster. Yeah. Now, we were very positive about Face Valley when we talked about Face Valley. We were. I'm, I'm going to be positive about No Jacket Required too. Yeah, gone. I mean, let's face it. There's nothing more 1985 than No Jacket Required by Phil Collins. The set, the brass stabs, the synthesizer brass stabs alone date it specifically to this 12 month window. A song like Susod, Susudio, I can't even say it. It's nonsense, isn't it? It's absolute nonsense.
Speaker 3Well, it's Phil Collins trying to be Prince and I found it irritating there and I find it irritating. Now there's only one story about No Jacket Required. I like, because obviously I do. The Collins is an immense talent, brilliant vocalist, brilliant drummer. And he's also quite innovative in terms of producers, say, you know, like you. you. I'm defending the fella, but I wasn't a fan of this album. I wasn't a fan of the studio particularly. There's some lovely songs on this one. Did you listen to these walls on this one?
Speaker 2No, I think that's the first or second album. Was that a between album single? I can't remember.
Speaker 3I thought, you know, first album, great, second album, consolidated the first album. This was kind of branching off again into kind of safer, bolder, more commercial territory in a way. But the title wasn't that he turned down in a New York nightclub because he didn't have the jacket. So this was his idea of fill the utilitarian. It's like no jacket required to listen to this.
Speaker 2Well, this was the fact it's his big orange sweaty head on the front cover. It's like the anti-80s anti-glamon away, isn't it?
Speaker 3Yeah, well then I always like, I think, again, his sleeves were quite innovative. And once more, I think there's a kind of naked honesty in there.
Speaker 2Yeah. I think it's a great pop record. I did like it at the time. But I mean, if I listen to it now, it is none more 1985. True. None more 1985. But I still think it's got great songs. One more night is a beautiful ballad, for example. Yeah, I can't even say it's a studio. Is the soundtrack to Patrick Bateman hacking up women in American Psycho? I can never think of it in any other way. Yeah. But that's not it, it feels full. And, you know, it's a great pop record. And again, like Brothers and Arms, it kind of, in many ways, probably was one of the first albums to sell bucket loads on Compied Disc, because it's the quintessential yuppie format. But isn't it at this time?
Speaker 3It's linked with Brothers and Arms, isn't it? In the sense that like Brothers and Arms, it seems that they're taking less risks, journey, the two of them. And it's paying dividends. It's really worked very well. And, you know, they've become, in a sense, almost unmoored from most of the pop assessment. They've become mega stars.
Speaker 2And also this year, sort of elder statesmen of the mainstream, we have records by Alton John, ice on fire, Stevie Wonder, in square circle. But one person that is not going with the flow at all, in many ways, the ultimate 80s icon prints came out with this record around the world in a day. Now, we have to remind people, this is the follow-up to Purple Rain, one of the biggest selling mainstream records of all time. And he followed it up with this. Within 12 months, he followed it up with this. Yeah, yeah. It's a pretty brave move, isn't it? I love this record.
Speaker 3Well, I think this is the opposite of the diastrates and Phil Collins, in the sense that he's taking more risks. And he went on again, you know, I think parade takes even more risks than this. And that's, you know, it's one of the reasons why, in the words of Neil Tennant, I'm disappointed with, say, Taylor Swift or Beyonce, that they have all the power in the world, and what do they do? They make relatively anonymous records. They've made their brothers and aunts do an exact thing.
Speaker 2Okay, I'm a fan of Taylor Swift. I think she takes more risks than that does a credit for.
Speaker 3Well, the author of Taylor Swift is. I know I've heard her. I know it because it's ubiquitous, it's all around. But I couldn't tell you what she sounds like. It sounds like I couldn't remember a single melody.
Speaker 2Right. Later on, I'm going to play you a song. Yeah. I'm going to play you a song. Is it going to launch? It's called This is Me Trying, which is going to blow you away. It's going to blow you away. I promise you. - No, I'm not. - Knowing your taste, I think. - Okay, all right, all right. - That's a big thing. - But yeah, no, I love this.
Speaker 3It's an obviously psychedelic cover, a little more psychedelic coloration of the music. - Well, I was going to say,
Speaker 2this is almost known as his psychedelic album, isn't it? And it isn't really, is it? There's a couple of tracks. - It's the track. - There's a couple of tracks that hit. Well, there's Paisley Park, Rosbury, Beret, they kind of hint at the psychedelic, yeah. But you've also got tracks like "Condition of the Heart", which is one of its most stunningly beautiful balance. -
Speaker 3Well, I love pop life and pop life, obviously, to get in. - Yeah, you know, a favorite album years, isn't it? There's almost like a kind of fripotronics. -
Speaker 2Oh, there you go. - There you go. - Running through it. - There you go, there's another drinking game favorite.
Speaker 3Can we mostly get through pop life? -
Speaker 2No, I don't know what you mean. - There is, it's life. - Okay. -
Speaker 3There's a kind of eno frip loop running through the piece. - Okay, I don't, you just listen to it again. -
Speaker 2I, listen, I love the track. - It's a jump out. - I've never spotted the frip eno connection. I just think you're trying to shoehorn them in, basically. But it's an amazing game. As you say, this is a mainstream artist but it's basically gambling everything. At least that's the way it feels. It's either that he's gambling everything or he feels like he's so on top of the world he can get away with whatever he likes. Or third possibility, he's simply making music at such a rate that he's not thinking about. That he's not thinking about. He's not second-guessing what people want from him. And I think probably that's, that is the answer. - Yeah. - That he probably had most of this album finished even before Purple Rain had, you know, had exploded into public consciousness. He already had this album finished and ready to go. So he's not second-guessing himself. Oh, I can't follow Purple Rain with that record now. People are expecting something different from me. He's just shitting it out there. - Yeah. - And, you know, it didn't sell anywhere near as well as Purple Rain. And probably a lot of the people that, you know, had got into When Doves Cry and Let's Go Crazy were probably very disappointed with it.
Speaker 3It's got a couple of killer songs that you say even when you think of Raspberry Bares. You know, it's very memorable. It's a great, I agree. - It's a great pop piece. -
Speaker 2And everything is relative. As a pop record, it stands up as a great pop record. But compared to Purple Rain, it's pretty willful. It's pretty experimental. And it certainly hasn't got that cut. You know, every track on Purple Rain is just like a killer song. You can imagine being a number one single. And here we've got a couple of songs like that. But then we've got things like condition of the heart, the ladder, temptation. The last track is nine minute bizarre. Little sort of pseudo theatrical blue. I don't know how you describe it. Kind of funky blues work out. These are not things that you would necessarily think of as the logical follow-up to. - No, Purple Rain. - So you can see your experiment.
Speaker 3You know, Purple Rain, the title track is quite ambitious, quite stately. Things like how I would die for you are kind of on the edge emotionally. You know, I know it's accessible, but there's a real kind of hysteria about it that I think is also a part of around the world in a day. -
Speaker 2I love this record. I think it's one of those records that just becomes greater with time. Firstly, seeing it as part of the trajectory of his career, understanding where it came and admiring the boldness of making a record like that. And as you say, you know, isn't it ashamed that there aren't more sort of pop mainstream artists that will take a gamble like that these days with their audience and their career? - Yeah. - And he really was the poster child for that in the '80s. -
Speaker 3And for somebody who, in a way, defines the decade, his albums don't sound hide bound by it. You know, when you listen to Brothers and Arms, there's something about the production of every instrument, the same with the Phil Collins albums, non-somed '80s. But actually, those Prince albums, Parade, Purple Rain around the world in the day, they're not hide bound by the decade that made him. -
Speaker 2They've got a sense of otherness about them. They've just created their own kind of musical world and is not really referencing what anyone else is doing. And that, I think, has given them a timelessness and a longevity that perhaps wasn't appreciated so much at the time. And I do remember there being a whiff of disappointment about around the world in a day when it didn't come out. Because it was-- - Yeah, I think for a media point,
Speaker 3if you there was. -
Speaker 2From a media point of view. And also, I think a lot of people, you know, that just were fans of pop, you know? I mean, I was, I had a day job at the time, and I remember a lot of the people I worked with, this is the computer industry, were big fans of Purple Rain. I remember sort of the week that this came out. There was a sense of deflation at this new record. It wasn't what they wanted, it wasn't what they wanted. -
Speaker 3It was a bit like Goldie Saturn's return, wasn't it? You know, it's like-- - Bit like that way to the R prices. - Yeah. - Hey, what's it like, Dadden? -
Speaker 2Fuckin' shit. - But I remember having a argument with one of my workmates who said, I said to him, "Oh, do you know that the new Prince had me around the world in a day?" He said, "No, it's way too weird for me. I still have his first album the best." And I'm like, "Oh, what for you?" I said, "No, Purple Rain." I'm, "No, it's not his first album." You can't say that. - My musical nerdery kicking in. -
Speaker 3But there was, again, I wonder what it kind of fits in with the politics of the 80s, you know, we were to work Patrick Bateman using Genesis and Collins. - Yeah. - There was something very, very straight and aspirational that the compact disc fitted in with, that brothers and arms fitted in with, that filled Collins fitted in with. - Yes. - And on a general level, you know, we're saying that, you know, pop stars were taking risks, and there were, as we'll come onto them, very eccentric artists succeeding. But generally, it felt like quite a straight time. -
Speaker 2It did, yes. - The Patrick Bateman's other favorite group, Huey Lewis and the News, will probably epitomize this kind of era in that respect. -
Speaker 3But I remember exactly those kind of conversations that, you know, it's like, "Mama by Genesis." Oh, a bitter hunger, no! -
Speaker 2I like that single. - Yeah, great single. - Never heard the album, but I like that single. So let's just talk about a couple of other big colossal mainstream releases that came out this year. This one, "Simple Mines." Now, I love this record. I love this record. I'm gonna guess that you don't.
Speaker 3You're gonna guess correctly. -
Speaker 2I'm gonna guess that you don't. That this in a way would be the ultimate manifestation of exactly what I was talking about, the sort of you two stadium arena rockization of bands that had previously been a bit more edgy. And "Simple Mines" to be fair. I mean, they're one of the, I think they're one of the greatest post punk groups before. -
Speaker 3But this, I'm in agreement with you. - Yeah, and I even like the predecessor that a lot of people did.
Speaker 2Sparkling the rain. - Sparkling the rain. - But they've been gradually moving towards this moment, haven't they? Once upon a time. I absolutely love this record. I think they pull it off. And I think that's the, we're gonna talk about some other bands from the era that tried to do this. And I don't think did pull it off. To me, "Simple Mines" along with you two, they are the two bands that pulled it off and deservedly became stadium rock gods and stadium rock icons. I mean, the production is amazing. I mean, obviously growing up, someone that was very excited by beautifully produced records. Bob Clare Mountain makes this record. Every snare drum sounds like you're getting kicked in the stomach. That big fat 80s, probably sample triggered snare drum, but it's done beautifully here in a way that it was done terribly on a lot of other records from the 80s. And it's big, it's pompous, it's reaching for the stars, and I think they pull it off. Tim, go ahead and trash it, as I know you want to.
Speaker 3It was very straight, I mean, again, it's like, I really like early simple minds. I think they're one of the most bizarre and experimental post-punk bands, and you listen to the stuff they do in the late 70s, early 80s, and you can still hear echoes of it in creative work now. So I suppose it was interesting that a band that were as, in some ways, willfully obscure and experimental as the simple minds to suddenly settle in 1985 as this mainstream rock band, and I agree with you, they did it well in the way that diastrates did it well. And I think sparkling the rain still had a kind of edge, it was pushing those gated drums quite far, I think lyrically, in a way cur was off in the stratosphere, like Van Morrison, you know, he's rambling maniacally. And they, again, as you said, they had music that had a gut punch, things like waterfront, brilliant use of space and power. And I guess I didn't hear any of the ideas or qualities that I liked in the previous music in this.
Speaker 2You see, I'm going to describe you slightly here. I think they've been gradually moving towards this point. If you listen to an album like New Gold Dream, two albums before that, they're already reaching for something more mainstream or accessible, more stadium bound in that sense. - Yeah. - Then sparkling the rain is another step, and then once upon a time is another step. And there's something still, very simple, mindsy about what they do. I still hear some of that DNA that comes from albums that are real to real quick off the knee and empires and dance and sons of fascination. I can still hear it. I can still hear, particularly Charlie Burtschild's guitar style, Jim Kerr's vocal kind of ticks, they're still there, but it is this big stadium rock sound. And it's fair to say that I think it would have been more shocking for simple minds to have arrived at this point than it would have been for you too to arrive at the same point because you two kind of, they didn't start from the same experimental post punk sort of point that simple minds did. And it is, when you, I mean, if you listen to real to real quick off the knee and you listen to this, it's almost like that's such a massive, massive transition. But I would argue you can still hear it's simple minds. -
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, I probably not listen to it in that. - You should, it never really grabbed me, you know, at the time and since, it's one of those albums that I kind of occasionally listen to once every five or 10 years to see if I still don't like it. - Okay. - I come to that conclusion that I still don't like. -
Speaker 2I know those kind of records, yeah. - Oh, I know, those kind of records.
Speaker 3Records I listen to every five years just to remember myself that I don't like it. - It's a specific blue, even though I'm told I'm sure. - It's controversial. - Yes. - But you too, it was a very, you know, you're right that you too obviously came out of a kind of a post punk territory and unforgettable fire as much as it's atmospheric, expensive and a real progression. It's very logical. You can sort of hear from, I will follow you to, - Yeah. - unforgettable fire, it's there, whereas this, you know, to go from sister feelings call or whatever. -
Speaker 2Yeah. - The stadium, there's, the sound of the stadium is inherent in you two right from the very first record. The sound of the stadium is completely absent from an album like Real to Real Cocoffani. -
Speaker 3And arguably, with unforgettable fire, you two were actually becoming slightly more experimental, slightly more of juice, whereas simple minds had absolutely reigned everything. And yeah, it's a great album in terms of it achieving, probably exactly what they wanted to do.
Speaker 2I think it's a wonderful big stadium pop rock record. Yeah, and as I say, I do disagree with you slightly. I still feel, it has a few of the edges of simple minds. -
Speaker 3Yeah. - No, I'm not, the place you're on. -
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, you're not completely wrong. And it's interesting because I think we're putting the opposite sides of the argument there, but I think we're essentially agreeing on the essence of the record. - Yeah. - Just one of us likes the essence, and one of us doesn't really like the essence. Also, this year, Eurythmics be yourself. And I'm interested in another band that have kind of moved from a sort of intimate synth pop sound to a much more mainstream stadium pop rock sound. Again, it's a, I think it's very distinctive. Sounds completely like Eurythmics. If Annie Lennox is singing, it's always gonna sound only like Annie Lennox and only like Eurythmics. But again, there are big, big, mate. This is kind of the peak of their mainstream success, I think. -
Speaker 3And it fits in with all of the other mainstream albums we're talking about that this is kind of almost all killer big stadium pop. - Yeah. - I really like the intimacy of the first couple of albums, and I really like what they went on to do after this savage, which is quite a willful and strange album. This was the one that kind of left me behind, but I'd always listen up because there was a quality in what they did. -
Speaker 2It's interesting because simple minds kind of tried to go a little bit more experimental, but with their following album too, they hired Trevor Horn and songs like "Kick It In", which I know were a big fan of. - "Kick It In" is great. So there was an almost, there was a sense of almost trying to reclaim a little bit of that edge with bands like Eurythmics, almost as if they acknowledged that this was as bad as mainstream as they ever wanted to. -
Speaker 3Well, there was obviously something in the air that people were wanting big success. So Eurythmics, Simple Minds, Collins, and clearly when Peter Gabriel makes so, this album, which has taken quite some time for him in a way, it's again, this almost precision-tooled commercial BMOF, which a lot of these albums are, and then eventually they retreat. And it's like we were talking in '68 that some bands were retreating from a psychedelic. It's like suddenly they thought, you know what, we're actually missing what we were. - Yeah. - And, but this is, it's a particular peak period for a particular type of music. - Eurythmics album, there we go. -
Speaker 2So that's got massive, would I lie to you? There must be an angel sisters are doing it for themselves. Yeah, I mean, almost a, a suit, you know, greatest hit album in its own right. - Yeah, yeah. - Anyway, let's move on, let's move on to another category. This category we've just called the album years favorites, because these are all artists that we've talked about many times on the show, or at least once before on the show. -
Speaker 3This is where, if you're not drunk,
Speaker 2you probably will be at the end of this, yeah, yeah. This album, Tom Wates Rain Dogs. Now, can we say this is kind of unofficially, it feels like it's part of the, it feels like the middle part of the trilogy to me that starts with swordfish trombones, and concludes with Frank's Wild Yet. And it's got a bit of both, hasn't it? But it's also probably the most accessible and mainstream of those three. - It's still a very willful, it's still have on both. -
Speaker 3It's all relative, it's all relative. - I mean, he's one of those artists, isn't he? You know, Tom Wates, how he's managed to shift so many units and be so successful, and of course, Rod Stewart covering one of the songs in this album has to help. - What was his song again? -
Speaker 2But Downtown Train, yes, yeah. -
Speaker 3You know, some of this stuff is more extreme than one of his influences, Captain B-Fart, and to take that to the top of most of the pop most in the mid '80s. - And there's very safe era. -
Speaker 2And there's very little about it that sounds, that you could say would date it tonight, tonight, if it wasn't there. And I think that's the beauty about Tom Wates, he's always kind of existed out of solid in a way of the era he's been operating in. There's no '80s production techniques is there on this, so at least not as I remember. -
Speaker 3Not that I can remember, I was listening to it earlier, so yeah, nothing, and again, it kind of shifts, I mean, the one thing that he does very, very well is go from that kind of tender short story ran in you and ballad into a complete noise fest, and then suddenly pull it out with quite an effecting kind of blues jazz tinged. -
Speaker 2Yeah, and the use of the junkyard percussion is on evidence again, he is. - I love the percussion, I love it. - I love it, Mark Rebo's guitar on it. - But then there are tracks like Downtown Train, which are, you know, I can imagine Bruce Springsteen doing that. I could imagine Bruce Springsteen doing that. -
Speaker 3But it's an outlier, isn't it? - It's just that one song you can imagine. - No, there's a few on here.
Speaker 2There's the track with Keith Richards on it as well. Again, I forgot, I've spent a while since I listened to this record, a walk in Spanish. Walk in Spanish. There's a few songs on here that you can imagine being on a stone's record or on a Bruce Springsteen record, but that's the beauty of Tom Weiss. You know, he doesn't sort of read from, you know, the same hymn book as everyone else. -
Speaker 3Yeah, can you imagine that audience listening to Big Black Mariah or other pieces, you know, Singapore? - Singapore, yeah. - 'Cause some of this, I'm just kind of wondering, you know, it's 1985 Patrick McBateman. - Yeah, yeah. -
Speaker 2Patrick Bateman wouldn't be, but Patrick Bateman would probably slaughter an extra couple of people just to make up a favor,
Speaker 3but he's bought it on the basis of downtown train.
Speaker 2And then he's listening to Singapore. - Yeah, and he has to go out and imagine. -
Speaker 3What happens is that when his mind fractures can just be it. You know, so it's extraordinarily brave for a huge mainstream success of the 80s, really. And you're right, it's kind of, it's that middle part of that early trilogy. Swordfish from Bones is probably my favorite. - Frank's Wild Years is probably my least favorite,
Speaker 2but it's the maddest as well, isn't it? Frank's Wild Years. - It is the maddest, yeah. - And we admire it for that. -
Speaker 3And I was going, you know, one of the earlier episodes, I think I was kind of playing devil's advocate and slightly damning ways. 'Cause, you know, when these albums came out, I was a massive fan. I discovered Swordfish from Bones around the time it came out, absolutely adored it. This I absolutely adored, Frank's Wild Years. Then there came a certain point when him as the actor, 'cause this is the thing, I think that he is an actor performing through the songs. That became an issue for me. And now I just think, well, he did it brilliantly. And he found the soundscapes to match those stories. So I've kind of changed. It's this thing for me that I'm always amazed that music never changes, but our relationship with it does. So there's certain times when you can, sometimes find yourself disconnected from it or sometimes thinking, well, why did I ever like this? Or, we're finding a fault. And it's funny, I'm more back in a Tom Waits mode. I think when we started off the album, [BLANK_AUDIO] probably in my society. -
Speaker 2You hated him when we started. You hated Tom Wise when we started the album years. - I did. - You hated him, you were always having a go at him. It was always down to me to different, no, it's not true. But I mean, it's interesting, he's here because he's the, he is the outlier in the sense, this is a 70s artist that's peaking in the 80s. -
Speaker 3And he's peaking with his most extraordinary music. - Well, this is what I mean. It's not like any concessions, 'cause if you listen to his 70s music, especially the first couple, they're beautiful, all of them. Albums, mostly quite ballad, heavy. You know, you'll still get the beat poetry excursions, you'll still get that kind of 50s jazz influence, but mostly he's writing classic ballads that the Eagles could and indeed did. - Okay. - Great ballads, and he's got a relatively straight voice at that point as well. But they're great albums, so at the point when he's making his most, you'd have thought, you know, 'cause again, he would have been the ultimate early to mid-70s singer-songwriter who should have broken big around the time of Hotel California, and he didn't. -
Speaker 2Because by that time he was making albums like Blue Valentine. -
Speaker 3That's 78, wasn't it? -
Speaker 2Which is a kind of a, when is Hotel California then? - '76. - Never knowingly owned an Eagles album in my life to be fair. But I mean, you know, he's, like you say, he's kind of peaking in the 80s, making his most extraordinary music, and that puts you on a very, very short list indeed, doesn't it? - Yeah. - Very short list indeed. -
Speaker 3He's making no concessions to 80s. - Yeah. - Production, no concessions to 80s. Commercialism, because you know, when we talk about downtown train and these tracks that could have been Springsteen, this was always a part of his work. In fact, this was mostly what he started doing, making these songs that could have been covered on Nebraska, you know? -
Speaker 2Now you can't say the same about Van, another of our favorites. But I have to say, I love all Van Morrison's 80s records, but he's certainly not peaking in the 80s.
Speaker 3He's in a good place,
Speaker 2he's in a good, thank you. He's in a good place, he's consolidating, he's making, he's making a record pretty much every year throughout the 80s. - Yeah. - He's making a string of albums, which feel much, if I'm much in a way, beautiful vision, inarticular speech of the heart, sense of wonder, which have got this gorgeous, kind of like middle of the road, spiritual quality to them. I don't know how to describe it, and this is, this is one of the lesser entries in that, in that run. People just talk about it in, inarticular speech, and no guru, no method, no method, no teacher has been kind of peaks in the 80s for that. This comes right between those two records. But there's some great tracks on it, it's almost important, I mean, I love Van Morrison so much, that it's almost impossible for me to not enjoy this record, even as I'd probably concede, it's one of his weaker entries. -
Speaker 3Yeah, like you, I agree, I think, that what comes before and after it, slightly better, but this isn't great. - I suppose that's the point, slightly better,
Speaker 2but this is still not really getting it. - There's not much
Speaker 3in it, the only thing that kind of is 80s, there's a slight kind of new age keyboard stand. -
Speaker 2Yeah, the DX7 electric piano is, it's pops up here. -
Speaker 3You can almost kind of put it into a Wyndham Hill category time. And so in that sense, his spiritualism almost ends up in new age, but his sense of melody, sense of wonder from this is a great track. - It is a great track, it is a great track, yeah. - There's still some magnificent Morrison tunes, and the 80s is an odd period for him, isn't it? 'Cause obviously he starts off with common one, which we think is that masterpiece. He then settles into a groove, that he pretty much plays the decade out, into Avalon Sunset, ends the decade in a similar way, arguably one of the strongest, again, great album. And he was interesting, given in a sense that his music was not cutting edge, he was not radical, was extremely soft in a sense. He was very much beloved of the music papers of the time, and you could see the influence on something I'm sure we discuss. Mike Scott and the water boys, that if anything, he'd become this major touchstone during this period. So in some ways, although it's not seen as his greatest album, it was a good period for him, solid success, major influence, and things like astral weeks, really hitting in other people's music. It's funny 'cause a guy I worked with did a podcast last week on "Why Astral Work Weeks" is the worst album ever made. -
Speaker 2That sounds interesting. It's certainly playing devil's advocate there. - And what's the answer? - Or is it a bit more complicated than that? -
Speaker 3It's 45 minutes of an answer. - 45 minutes of an answer. - Basically the length of the album, he trashes the album. Indeed. So obviously, as he's my drummer, I'm gonna have to have a chat with him, you know?
Speaker 2That's, seriously something needs to be addressed very badly to him yet. I think that's the point here is that Van as you say, he's part of a continuum of records that have a similar sound to them. Maybe this album, because it doesn't have a rave on John Donne or a Coney Island on it to really, or a contacting manager to really elevate it. - Oh god, and that sort of thing. - But it's just as good, it's kind of, it's in the same style, it's solid, you couldn't be disappointed with it, I don't think. And we're just Van Morrison Apologies on here. -
Speaker 3Exactly, although, again, he kind of settled, I think by the 90s, he settles into more of an R&B. - Yeah, I'm not so fond of his post 80s,
Speaker 2but I think in many ways that the 80s was a very strong time for him, despite the fact that the albums that he made in the 80s aren't lauded in the same way that albums like Viden Fleece and Astral Weeks, but he was just solid throughout the whole, the whole decade, wasn't it? - And his voice was magnificent. - And his voice is magnificent. - That's all the things that you know,
Speaker 3you can still say that now, whatever he does, his voice is still seen. -
Speaker 2He's always Van, isn't he? - Very much. - He's always Van, and we love him. He's one of our favorite artists on the podcast. -
Speaker 3And he detests us for loving him. -
Speaker 2And he would detest it. Well, it's funny, I've just done the Munich high end show and I was playing some of my Atmos mixes and I played Moon Dance, the Total Tracker Moon Dance. And I always used to, when I come back in front of the audience after I played it, I said Van Morrison would probably hate that. He would probably have hated what I've done to his song. Anyway, but that's part of why we love him. So let's carry on with some more sort of drinking game, which is the album years favorite category after all. David Silvian, Alchemy, an index of possibilities. This is interesting, I suppose, in the sense it's an artist that's very much known as sort of pretty boy, pop star icon, making essentially a very arty, instrumental, ambient record, isn't it? -
Speaker 3Well, it's part of a process, isn't it? I think Japan were always quite experimental, especially on Tindrum. Then you had Silvian's collaboration with Sakamoto, the bamboo house is single and brilliant trees. And I think at this stage, there were logical steps towards positioning him as a kind of new music. - A experimental artist. - An artist, yes, definitely. And while this is very much a sort of stopgap album, it really reinforces that image with the artwork. And so what you got, I think he released a vinyl EP, which consisted of kind of instrumental outtakes from brilliant trees, or at least was developed from that. So you've got John Haskell, you've got Percy Jones, really sort of interesting, heavy, ethnic influence. And then I think you have a couple of other pieces, including one that was created for Japanese documentaries. - I think where Robert Froop gets involved. This is one of these for I can gather this year. -
Speaker 2I think officially this might be more considered to be a compilation, or bringing together. - But it was released at the time,
Speaker 3it was released on cassette at the time. I think you had a single release. And then at the end of the year, I think it was released on a cassette, and you had steel cathedrals, I think, as the 18, 19 minute instrumental with Fripp. -
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, I quite like it. I quite like it. I think it's fair to say that there's been an awful lot of ambient music made since 1985. And so ambient music is almost by the yard these days. But his album definitely, his ambient music definitely sounds distinctive. It does sound very much. He does manage to carve out his own sound within the particular genre. It's not just a bunch of briney knockoffs. It's got that kind of ethnic use of percussion and use of John Hassel. The sort of fourth world elements come in there too. Steve Jansen plays a big part in the percussion. -
Speaker 3Yeah, he's always rhythmically unmistakable.
Speaker 2And then he's got these sort of wild cards coming in, people like Holger Choukai, and Robert Fripp, as you say, in Psycho Motown, Kenny Wheeler, who are taking it into other areas as well. So it's a nice record. I think it's nice that this part of his catalog isn't it, without being the record you would, you know, that's actually gravitate. - As I said, I think it's a stopgap. - Yes, it's a really beautiful one. - Really a stopgap, really. - And maybe we can say the same, maybe we can say the same as this, although it's a soundtrack record. - Oh, we can. - But what a soundtrack record it is. - Oh, brilliant. - Absolutely. -
Speaker 3He uses elements of three and four doesn't it as part of the compositional process. Yeah, I mean, he still sounds tremendous. And it is, you know, if you want a kind of extension of Gable's three and four, that's your one. Really, it's your instrumental soundtrack variation. The difference, I think, between the Sylvie and Gable and this is that the Sylvie and hints at what's gonna happen with Gone to Worth because the next year, Fripp becomes within a main collaborator's, along with Bill Nelson. And there's a second disk of instrumental pieces that's sort of hinted at, whereas Birdie is a conclusion. - Like a closing of a chapter, isn't it? -
Speaker 2Yeah. - So that he can move on and make so. - And his big, my stream crossed out. -
Speaker 3Obviously, as he hears the new stuff, I come dancing in and when it's late hammer is released as a single, it really is something of a shock,
Speaker 2you know? - But it's a brilliant soundtrack, isn't it? It's a brilliant soundtrack album, yeah. - Yeah. (upbeat music) -
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