#455 - “DEMENTED!” - CJNG Cartel Tr*fficking is DARKER Than You Think | Kat Szulc

[music] So who the hell's car chasing you off the road? Oh, that was brutal. That was brutal. I mean, I imagine. But like, what, give me some context. So, you know, I think like when we first chatted, you and I, I talked about how I don't want to do human trafficking stories and stuff like that. And then I broke that baby trafficking story last year. Yeah. And then as scary as that was, there was this like realization that those stories are extremely important. And then when I went to Mencho's cabins, I found those pictures of those women that they tried to burn in the barbecue. And so then I had someone reach out to me and can you please stop struggling? That's so distracting. Relax. Just keep going. Oh my God. You're on one today. I'm going to keep struggling now just for you. But go ahead. This is why people comment that I mean to you. So anyways, I then get a tip being like, hey, this story was published and there's this problem about women from Central Mexico being sex traffic into border towns and into the States, into Houston, into New York. And so I start setting some stuff up and I go to the Las Galas Mexico, which is like the most unknown state in Mexico. It's less. Galas. Las Galas. And it's like a, it was like a two hour drive, I think outside of Mexico City. So I go there and the plan is to talk to women who have been trafficked or were targeted by traffickers and also speak to a trafficker. And a lot of this, it's like kind of outside cartel territory because for the most part, these trafficking organizations, so to speak are actually family generations. It's family units that are doing this. So like dad, son, uncles, grandfather, like all of them and then they are the ones recruiting and trafficking the women. But they are operating on territories that cartels control. There's no way they're doing well. Well, yeah, of course, but that's like anything with Mexico. But these are, it's not like, oh, this is this these guys that I'm meeting with are like CG and G. Right. They are just generations of families and paying a tax up. Like, like, CG and G protects it if you will. Well, because CG and G profits off of human trafficking, like heavily more than really any other cartel. Um, but yeah, these guys aren't, they're not also like trafficking drugs and doing this. They are pro traffickers, human traffickers. And so when I go to Las Gala, I have all these interviews set up and also because the governor of Las Gala, who's a woman, um, vehemently denies that there is any sex trafficking happening like at all. Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, true, chill. Thank you. And so this is where it is right here. Yeah. Okay. Uh, really small. And so we get there and how do I say this politely? I hired someone who will never be getting hired by me ever again. Who said, Hey, I like I, I can set you up with this, uh, sex trafficking family and they do this and blah, blah. We go to this really small town where so one thing that I had heard of, but I'd never encountered it until now is that there are small towns in Mexico that if you are putting your nose in the wrong place or they don't want you being there, you're an outsider, you get lynched and they have lynched. Yes. And they have signs that are like, if you don't belong here, we will lynch you. Like a key lean chamos. They yes. Yes. Oh, it's a warning, right? No excuses. No. So when we get to this house and I see that sign, I'm kind of like, ha, ha. Like not taking it seriously bad journalist vibes in that moment. Okay. Top 10 of my worst moments. Sorry. And I see this and I'm like, Oh, that's weird. Okay. Anyways, kind of talking to people, like usually the way I do stories like this, especially as you just really have to talk to everyone you set certain things up, certain things, fall through whatever we don't have to get into that. But it didn't give you like, obviously you talk to some really dangerous people all the time when you're doing your stories. But like in this case, you know, you're going to talk to a literal as part of the story. A tracker, a guy who does it. Like what does that even feel like bad? Yeah. And like, do you remember? So this is one thing I always said, like, Oh, I can, I talk to criminals for work and whatever. And I typically don't judge and I know like they're doing their job. I'm doing my job, which is also why contrary to prop, like popular belief. That's how it honestly works and why I'm still alive. And everything is okay because I don't go into like a preconceived notion. And I just understand, well, this guy's not doing it someone else will. But there's a very big difference between someone who traffic struggles and kills the competition and is doing illegal things versus someone who is recruiting vulnerable women and like using them, like just seeing them as like a sex object and making them have sex with like up to 30 men every day. Every day. Oh, and are they getting little girls sometimes too? Yeah. So there's a big demand for underage girls and for selling virginities, obviously, selling virginity. Yeah. And you're talking with a guy who openly does that. Oh, it was brutal. And how'd you get in contact with them? Through someone through someone through someone like literally, that's just how it works. Right. And it took a while, obviously, but I had to push for it. What do you, like, so when you first start texting someone like that, I'm whenever I've been doing it, that matter. What do you even say? Like, hi, yeah, I'm a journalist. I want to cover trafficking and your trafficker basically. But I want to know your side of the story. Your side of the story and how the business works. Yeah. It's wow. Good for you. Are you being facetious? No, I'm not being facetious. Like I wouldn't be able to, I would not be able to do that. So this was like a different experience, right? Because then I was, I actually didn't talk to this person over text. I met with him in person. Someone else set it up through someone else. Like that's because with these kinds of guys, they're also very paranoid. Yeah. I don't even imagine. Yeah. So we met in person for the first time without saying where or what is this in a very public place? No. No. And that's why I'm telling you about the lynching shit because I'm telling this story all over the place. Cheers to that. That's it. That's like this could be it. This could be the last one. So after that meeting, and I couldn't film that meeting, my team and I were kind of burned in the town. They knew our car, our license plates, us that we were there and people were not happy. Did many of them work in that business and the trafficking business? Literally like everyone. The whole town. It's like that is their economy. It's like the Truman Show traffic. People are going to hate me for saying that like in governments, but that's literally when it is shit. In that town, these boys are growing up thinking when I grew up, I'm going to be a trafficker, just like my dad or just like my uncle. That's like, you don't have these kids. Yeah. You know, if they wrote that into a breaking bad episode back in the day, people wouldn't believe it. They'd be like, all right, come on. It sounds it sounds far fetched, which is why I went because also there was a report on this area. And I was like, this seems a little dramatic. And there were things in that reporting I found were not solid and certainly over dramatized. For example, the one of the images in this report was of these girls dancing at a carnival and they said like, these are like little prostitute girls. They weren't. They were literally just women dancing at a carnival in like traditional clothing type of thing. Anyway, so that was, I didn't appreciate that. But I wanted to go and see what that was going on. So we get burned after going to this house and then are told you, you guys cannot go back to that town. So we stay in like the main city, whatever approximately how many people live in that town, just to get people an idea. Oh, I have no idea. It's just, it's one of those towns where like everyone knows everything about everyone, but it's not 50 people. It's not 50 people, but it's small town vibes, right? And is it up in the mountain? Because I've been in land. So it's up in the mountains. Yeah, it is. So anyways, we go to the city, whatever. I set up an interview because I obviously needed someone to talk to me on camera, right? That's how my content works. And so I set up now through someone else. Oh, this trafficker will talk to you on camera and just make sure you change his voice, blur his face. Cool. That's totally fine. This guy's been in the business for so long with the family. So we are driving on the highway to meet with this person at a location. And as we're driving, I get a call. from this woman who was trafficked. She's from Las Galas and she was trafficked to Tijuana by her husband. Mm hmm. I'm gonna get into this because it's actually not like, oh, they're just grabbing girls off the street. By her husband. Yes, because the way that they're recruiting these girls are this older guy will go and scope it out. Okay, 17 year old, 16 year old girls who've never had a boyfriend before, come from a conservative family and go up, make them fall in love. It's like the Romeo method, right? Oh my God. Make them fall in love. Well, either not have sex with them to save their virginity or have sex with them to grab them, have them more close. Like you and I work together and I'm your first type of thing. So they do that and then once the girl turns 18 typically because in order to work in Tijuana as a prostitute or work in the red light district, you have to show your ID. Obviously there are ways around that and there are a lot of underage girls. But for this one woman, she gets married. This guy is the love of her life. She lost her virginity with him. Oh, but now he's saying that he has to go to Tijuana for business and work. Okay, we move together. Cool. They go to TJ literally the moment they get there, he takes her ID, her phone and is like, you're gonna go work at the corner, like standing outside. And she was like, what the hell is going on? And he is like, no, you are it. She refuses. He beats the shit out of her. She ends up in the hospital. And now she's scared and she goes and works. And after she works and she makes some money, he treats her like a queen. So he really does love me. We just need the money, right? And you're talking about women who are from a small town. Yeah, you know, really innocent young. Really innocent. And so what does the hospital say though? She walks in with the shit kicked out of her. That's not the hospital's place. And it's her husband, you know. I asked that too. I asked her. I also asked her like, if she ever went to the police or anything and she did. And she was like, it got so bad one time when he kicked the shit out of me. I went and I said, I need to go back to my family and I can't be around this guy. And they were like, look, this is a, this is a, a, a marital dispute. Oh my God. 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No one's forcing you to go to the corner. - You wanna be here. - That's it. She literally told me that in the interview. This woman was destroyed. Anyways, the point, I'm sorry. How did you get a hold of her in this? - So this is the thing, right? I'm asking around, talking to people. And so we're driving on the highway to meet with a trafficker allegedly. She called, this woman calls me because someone who knew her what I was like, hey, I actually think that there's this woman who's willing to chat with you. She calls me. And I have it on speaker. So I have two camera guys filming me in the car when we're driving on the highway. At this point, I'm talking to her on the phone for about like 20 minutes. I fucked up. That's way too long to have a camera up on a highway in the middle of nowhere in Mexico, especially to go to the meeting that we're going to. - I'm hard to get off that kind of call though. - Exactly. And she's like telling me this shit and I'm like, holy fuck. And also I wanted to meet with her in person. And I knew that we would have to chat in order for her to know that she can trust me before we would actually be able to meet. At that point, and this is all on camera, this big ass black pickup truck pulls up right by us. And obviously someone clocked us, pulls up to us, two guys in the front, look into our car, they cut me off. And first thing I see are fake license plates. It's just says, meet your gun. Like just, I was like, fuck my life. Like this is where it comes to an end, right? So they cut me off. My camera guy starts freaking the fuck out. I'm trying to become, but I'm also like, yeah, this is not good. And I try to you turn, stops me. Like there's no way. Yeah. And then so. - Do you see guns at all? - Okay, so this car is in front of me. I'm trying to get around it. I hit the brakes, they start backing up. I'm like, fuck my life. So I fake signal, boom, boom, finally you turn over the meridian. - Yeah. - In this like shitty rental. And you turn and get out. And at this point, I am freaking out. And I'm like, oh, fuck, like we're clocked. I don't know, they just want, they, they want us out of here. And they're just trying to send us a message or they're actually gonna do something with us. And typically I have like this, this is gonna sound bad. But I always fall back on the fact, well, I am a foreigner. And so if they were to do something to me, it would heat things up more than they would want to. So it would just not worth it for them to do something to me, right? - And you felt confident that they knew, they knew you were a literal foreigner of like the country. - Yeah, but that was the problem in this moment. I'm like, I feel like they don't know. Like they, this is-- - Because you could blend in. - Yeah, I can blend in also. They don't know me. They haven't heard me speak, none of that. And I didn't know who these people were and I didn't know who clocked us or if someone tried to set us up or if that trafficker interview was actually a fucking setup. So you turn go a small car, no plates pulls up and they point to gun at us, which I think was fake. It was a fake gun. - A fake gun? - It was a fake gun. - So they're pointing pistols at you. They're not pointing full blown machine gun. - No, it was definitely a fake gun. - What makes you think it was fake? - It just didn't look real. - Did you ask them to spray the water out of it or what? - I also think in the moment because I didn't want a panic and I was with two other people. I was like, okay, I brought us here. You know, these guys are just working. - God bless your cameraman. - Holy shit. - Terrible job. - Yeah. - You know how many messages I get from people being like, I wanna work with you, can we ever-- (laughing) - Can you do it yet? - Like, no, you don't. First of all, I'm such an asshole on assignment. Like just, you know, wound up. And then second of all, it's like, just one wrong move. - That's it. - Good night, Charlie. - Yeah. - So then I'm at the-- - You do you wanna go? - Yeah, I'll go. - Yeah. - People go. - Your fucking liability for sure. - People wearing GoPro. - Why would you make you think I'm a liability? - I don't know, there's just, I feel like you talk too much. - No. - No. - No? - Oh, he's good with criminals. - Yeah. - Okay, great. - No, you underestimate him. He knows how to talk. - I'm just like the bus chops. - Yeah, I know, yeah. - I underestimate everyone with this because I don't even know if I fully trust myself sometimes. - I don't trust you either, so I mean, that's fair. But-- - Okay. - Anyways. - No, in all seriousness, like, how much-- It's been what, three, four years you've now doing this down there all that four years? Yeah. At this point, like, none of these stories surprised me. Like, you put yourself in the middle of it, in all seriousness, for so goddamn long that like, even with, I know all the precautions you take behind the scenes. - Yeah. - Can't speak for your camera man and everything, but you're gonna run in this shit like this. - Well, they're running in, I know. And that was not fun. And that was, that was when I was like, oh fuck. - But when they pointed the gun, how long are they pointing the gun at you? - So, car pulls up right next to us. Boom, I fucking just floored it. - You floored it. - Yeah. - You didn't even wait. - No, I floored it. Fucking dummy the speed bomb, because Mexican I always have speed bombs. It's brutal man. - Yeah, that's it. - Yeah, floored it. And then camera guy is panicking at this point. It's like speed up speed up. - Is he still filming now? - Yeah. At this point, don't get me started. Why do you think he's fucking fired? - Oh my God. - Come on, dude. - But friend in the back, what kept filming? So all of it is on camera. And at one point, I'm like, stop fucking filming because I had to make calls for security reasons, right? Being like, hey, just so-and-so know my location, do you know, like blah, blah, blah, because that's always make sure that I'm not just like broad-ogging it, because also if I get kidnapped or like they kill me right there, who's gonna know where I am though, one? - Exactly. So, Anyways, yeah, that was like not a great situation. - Can't you go in with armed security? Like at this point, isn't that an option that should be on the table all the time? - It doesn't work for the kind of access that I'm trying to get. I just don't think it's right or effective if I'm going in with people that are armed, like where's the trust then? And then they're gonna think I'm a cop or I'm with cops. And how is that gonna work? - But it's such a dangerous, you're going into dangerous areas. They know it's dangerous. So they know someone who's a journalist from the outside would probably need to look into making sure they're not risking their life every single time they step out. I don't think it's that. I don't think, and maybe I might be looking at this a little too naively 'cause I'm not down there and I don't live in these places. But I don't think it would automatically be the leap all the way to, oh, she must be CIA 'cause there's a security guard with her. Like, - Not even just that, but they trust me as in, I'm a journalist telling the story, okay? About what you guys do for your job. - Right. - They don't know who these other people are. They know it's me. They know it's cameraman. Camera guy, camera is there. He's holding the camera. He's getting the shot. I'm there. I'm asking the questions. We throw some armed, tough dude in that combination. It's just, it's too much. - It's too much. - I don't know. It might get to that point. I don't want to, I know a lot of journalists in Mexico who are always in armored vehicles and always have an armed bodyguard. But they're also not doing the type of stories I am or like going. - Right. - So yeah. I just don't, I don't think that's gonna work. - Well, when you Florida and got out of there, they obviously didn't chase you. - No, they didn't. So that's when they wanted to send a message. They were done with us being there. They didn't, I was sticking my nose in too many places, knocking on too many doors and people noticed it. So, yeah, that was. - How long ago was this again? - Three weeks ago. - Now what's the status of that story? 'Cause you were doing the 20-minute interview with the woman at the time. - Oh yeah, this. - That's what got you clocked. But like what else you talk with the trafficker in person? - I literally just finished this story. It's not out yet. And it, 'cause I went to, to wanna because that's where a lot of these women end up. And so I had to interview people over there. - After this happened. - Mm-hmm. And so I went there, interviewed women who work in sex work, some traffic, some not interviewed a trafficker there. Yeah, it's just. - So you interviewed a second trafficker? - Well, I never made it with the first one in Lascala. - Oh, on camera, on camera. - On camera, right. - Yeah. - But you did meet with them and put, let's go back to the first one just for a second. How long were you sitting with them? Wherever you were doing it? Maybe like two hours? - What kinds of things were you asking them? - How much money do they make? How they get the women? What's their cut? What do they do if. - It's a lot less than you would think. - You know what? I'm not surprised. It's not a lot. - It's not a lot. And here's the problem, right? Like a lot of these girls that are coming from Central Mexico, they're not going and charging like $1,000 for like 30 minutes type of thing or 60 minutes. They're going and they're charging like 300 pesos for 15 minutes, which is why? 200 pesos is what? Like $18, $17, $15. Yeah, it's literally nothing. And they're doing full service. And that's why they're giving service to like 30 guys a night. When she told me 30 men in a night, like I actually can't, I can't comprehend that. - Good. (laughing) - I mean, you shouldn't be able to. That's insane. - It's brutal. - Yeah. - And the story is like, essentially every woman I spoke to was like, oh yeah, I've been held at knife point or gun point or basically got raped. Like so many of these moments, it's just rape. Of course. - So that was, yeah, really shitty. And then to sit with one of the traffickers that I did who was laughing about putting like a golf tee into girls, yeah. And like shit like that. And like how funny it is. - How do you sit there, especially like as a woman and not and keep your journalist hat on when he's saying shit. - You pretend. - Literally, like what am I gonna do? Be like, you're fucked up, that's crazy. That changes nothing. And then I get no information. So that people can see holy, like the reality of the situation. - Absolutely, it's hard to do that though in the moment. - Oh, it's horrible, but you lock in. And it's just like, okay, this is how these guys talk. You match it. And we're drinking and all that's fucking crazy. Oh, you did that. Oh, like I don't know. - You just go along. - But you go along. You just go along. - What are the kinds of things that you tell you? So he had grown up in it. I take it. - Mm-hmm, generational. Everyone in the family, yeah. - Was he married? Had he traffed this wife? What was his logic there? - So basically they're not trafficking their wives and daughters. So that guy that I told you about that trafficked his wife, he was using this Romeo method, right? - Right, men and girls fall in love. And so she believed that to be her husband, but it wasn't. - But for this kind of-- - Because their wives, their real wife, is not going to be sex trafficked by them. - Right, so I would imagine, 'cause you're sitting with them for a couple hours, she's giving you the information, you're asking them something like, okay, why is it okay to traffic other women as opposed to your own wife and daughters? You don't traffic them. - No, because that's family. - But that's what I'm saying. That's only logic he is, 'cause they're family. - Yeah, no, that's my family. This is business. So-- - And there's a, it is weird, but there is this very clear difference in respect. So for example, they see that the girls are trafficking or like potential victims as like trash, whatever, like this is just, that's, it's like a product. But, and I could feel it, when I'm chatting with him, there's a lot of respect. - For you? - Oh, so, oh yeah, this is-- - So what makes you not trash to him? - I don't know, my job, I don't know. That's so, like I can't, that's so crazy. - I think it's like a, it's a vulnerability thing. It's like, you know how like pedophiles were like fine, like a vulnerable kid. - Yeah. - The kid who's kind of quiet, the kid who probably wants anything or can fall into the trap type of thing. That's how they determine who's their product and who's just a woman that's, that they respect. - So they view the vulnerable as less than, like a, and I'm putting words in their mouth right now. - In a way. - But like as a genetic mistake, a choice therefore, this is evolution and they lose in the game of Darwinism. That's how they're looking at it. - Yeah, sort of, I mean, from what I was told, that's actually kind of what it seems like. And it makes them money. And I even asked, I'm like, when you beat them up, like you don't feel bad. He's like, no, if they don't wanna get beat up, they're gonna do their job properly. - Ha, ha, ha, ha. - Does he beat his own wife and kids? - I have no idea. I would imagine that's, yes. - I'll bet he does one. - I, 100%. - I could see that. You can usually tell a wife, Peter. - Was his, so you said it was generational, so his family was in it. Did he talk anything about, I don't know, his mom being involved in anyway, with trafficking, you know, helping with the operations, or was it the kind of thing where he was talking about like his dad, someone abroad and then he was just-- - Mom knows about it. Mom doesn't do anything though in it. She's not involved. But all of the female family members know about it. Did he have siblings who also got into the business? - It's all, it's everyone in the family. - What else did he tell you that really stood out? 'Cause that's a lot, I didn't know you were talking to him for that long. That's a long time. - Yeah, we were there for a few hours. What else did he tell me that really stood out to me? It was just, yeah, the, really what stood out to me, and I know that for the report, this is outside of what the guts of the report is, but it was just the way that they treat them. Like when he was making, just it was so funny to him to do these borderline, torturous things, and how they'll get all girls together sometimes and throw these parties and everyone's partying and the shit that they're doing. And he was like proud of it. What he said, yeah, and nasty shit. - Do you think he has the capability to feel anything for another human being? Don't care who it is. - I don't know. I don't know. - 'Cause like, I'm sure you probably, well, maybe you haven't, but one thing you should probably think about it at this point, having done this for so long and been around such a chaotic environment with some of the worst people in the world, is like, yeah, you may not be a classically trained in school psychiatrist or psychologist or anything like that, but you're probably one of the best in the world at being able to pick up on sociopathic traits and what goes into how different sociopaths are forming stuff like that. - Because I've spoken to all these people, yeah. - Running a business means you're always reachable until you're not. And the moment you miss that call, that text, that follow up, a competitor is the one who picks it up. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O. Business phone system built so you never miss an opportunity. Quo's awesome because all your calls, texts, and voicemails live in one place. 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So obviously there's a sociopathy level that's built into someone like this. But were there ever moments you were with him where you were able to. I don't want to say forget, but like, you know, momentarily he's not a trafficker. He's a human. And like you felt humanity was. Yes. And especially when he. So we were drinking and talking. And he got hammered. And that was when I was like. Ew. Like what the fuck is this? It's careless too. And like sloppy drunk. Yeah. And I wasn't expecting that. When we first met, I was even a little bit intimidated. And then when I saw him drunk, and I drank more by the way. Just putting that out there. Yeah, that's all right. I was like. It's not like. And I don't. I'm not trying to glamourize it, but it's not like I'm talking to the. You would think, oh, they're doing these evil things and making. This individual is making quite a bit of money from it. That there would be like this level of decorum in spite of like all of the shit that they're doing. Right. He'd be on guard more. Yeah. And initially he was. And then afterwards. No problem. But. How was he getting drunk off of tequila? It's like a lot of different things actually at that point. So he's being real sloppy. Yeah, I don't remember what. He drank, started drinking vodka because I drink vodka. I know. And I've never experienced that. Usually it's the other way around when I meet. Yeah. If I meet with criminals and like. That's interesting. If there's like alcohol, which sometimes there isn't, it's not because I'm their friend. It's literally an icebreaker, right? Like you're just. And in Mexico too, drinking just whatever. But yeah, he matched my poison. That's interesting that he would mirror you. I wasn't expecting that idea. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Now Prisma is a real man and he's got a lot of money left. He's now in the corner of the street, with a total of 15% of the money. He's got a lot of money, Prisma and Prisma's money to drink. How'd you guys leave it? You're like, "All right, I got no more questions for you. Have a good one." No, he got drunk and I was like, "Okay, I'm going now. I have to ingest footage and shit." Bye. Yeah, and then he said he could set up some other stuff for me and. Shake his hand. Yeah. I don't know. I always think about Brian McMonicle, who's a friend of mine who's one of the best defense attorneys to ever live. He's represented everyone from Bill Cosby to Meek Mill, to all across the gamut of like types of cases, people that are guilty, people that are innocent, etc. But he always talks about that with. Because I'll ask him, I'll be like, "How do you sit with a dude that you know is guilty?" And you have a constitutional job to represent him and do your thing, understand that, and you're handling that. But how do you sit with them and have any type of personal relationship, which naturally has to happen while you're building a long case? And he's like, "You know, it's the little things." Like, what do you mean? He goes, "You know, they'll show you little things that make them human." Oh, they offer their cup, you know, to you first before the water gets poured, or, you know, they'll make a joke that you can relate to, or they'll talk about their family and there's actually real love there. And you can talk about yours, like all these little things. And so he's like, "Yeah, it doesn't change the fact that some of these guys, inevitably are bad people that, you know, end up getting locked up when they're very guilty." And, you know, are in many cases sociopaths, but like, even that sliver of collective humanity can at least help me, referring to him, do his job. And so I would imagine if you're, even if you guys are ice breaking it and getting drunk together, which I guess, I mean, that's interesting. But I would imagine being able to sit with someone for two, three hours like that, even if you're not, you know, in the moment you're doing your job. But even if you're not consciously clocking it, there has to be a lot of those moments where it's like, you're at least just two fucking people talking on a bar stool. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And there will be moments where, especially when you're talking for a while, it's just a conversation. And yeah, they, he may mention of his family and stuff, like, telling me about his marriage. La la. I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm painfully single. Like it's, and I will say things too, whatever. But then it can be very jarring when that's the, the vibe of the conversation, because then it, when it will then shift to like the topic at hand, it's, it's jarring. It's jarring. Yeah. It's different than just talking. And it's tough because it's like, right after speaking with someone who suffered so much because of someone like this, did you bring her up? I did. Yeah. What did he say? Well, I said, you know, there was this woman that I don't, I don't know if you had anything to do with it, you know, because it's a expansive network. So I was like, she said she couldn't sleep and she was giving service to like 30 guys a night. And two things, he was like, well, first, she probably wasn't making much money because the girls who are giving service like that, they're not charging a lot. And second, he was like, he didn't feel sorry for her, but he knew it was shitty. He was like, oh, that's sexy. Yeah, that's tough. Yeah. Like they know that it's not, it's not good. It's not a nice life. So what makes them deserve that other than other than I get paid money and I pick them out because they're vulnerable and therefore whatever, what makes like, how can he be like that shitty and feel something towards it? It reminds me of like if I were talking to someone in like 1830 about like their slaves or something like that. Yeah. And they're like, oh, that's shitty. But that's just the way it is. Yeah. That's literally what it's, yeah. Well, you know, we all got to make our money somehow. That's how they see it. But it was really difficult to chat about this. If I had spoken with him before I talked to like multiple girls, it probably would have been very different actually. House. I don't think I would have taken as seriously some of the comments he made about like some brutal shit that happens and how he was like so joking about it. I think if I had heard that prior to interviewing the girls, I would have been like, oh, yeah, whatever. But you ever get pissed at him openly? Not openly. No. No. I mean, this is a dead serious question. But for something like this, like do you as part of like preparing yourself, do you work like an actor a little bit, like get yourself in the role, if you will, like, no, no, no, you just that comes naturally. Yeah. I just, it's just a matter of, I know what I need to get out of this. And I know that attacking someone or judging their decisions or the way their brain operates is not going to help them open up. And you don't know how you're going to react though. That's more. I do though. You do. Yeah. Because I that I was raised like that. Like I people tell me unhinged shit all the time, horrible things. And it just goes inside. And I just what am I going to say or do? I'm not going to freak out. I have a lot of control over my emotions. That's good. Helps in that kind of job. Yeah. I think it helps in every job. It does. But especially - People should act on emotion for the most part. And so yeah, no, there were like a few things, a few moments when he said something, and I'm like inside, oh fuck. But I just don't say anything then. - What was one of those? You already described a couple, but. - Yeah, like it was like shit like that. Just like things that they'll do to the girls, and you're just like, oh fuck, you're such a piece of shit. No, but. - Yeah. - But you can't say that. - Can't say that. - You know? - How do you, 'cause you're gonna be free-willing it when you go to talk to a guy like this, you're meeting them and wherever it is, and you're not on camera, you're not sitting there with papers like it's 60 minutes or anything, but how do you, if you're already good, mentally prepared for it to be able to handle it and do your job, that's great. But like, do you kind of prepare how you want it to go or do you do it live every time? - Live. - Yeah. - Yeah, no, I actually think the best journalism comes from just having like a natural conversation. Because I think when you go in prepared, no matter what, you have to go with no expectations. And if you're preparing for it or being like, I definitely am going to ask this, you're already betting that that's where the conversation is going to go or like, yeah, you can't. I really go into everything in life with no expectation. - No, I love that. But that's the thing, like that's how I do it here. I think there's a lot less serious stakes, it's in a fucking podcast studio. But like, the magic would be gone if there was like a level of, I want to make sure we get to this and this and do it this way and talk about this thing. - I understand, sometimes like that needs to happen. Like, when I interview a politician, for example, there are certain things I'm like, okay, I need to know this or I need an answer or a reaction. But for someone, yeah, no, but for the most part, it's just, you have to just have a natural conversation. - I think it would be a lot harder if you had very limited time. They're like, oh, you have 10 minutes or 15 minutes or something like that. That's a different kind of scenario. - I hate that. - That's awful. - Oh my God. - And if you're gonna talk about that. - Every time I have that situation, the interview is trash. - Right. - Every time. - But if you know you're gonna have a couple hours with someone to talk with them, chances are, I'm thinking of like the politician situation, for example. Like, let's say there's one or two key issues right now that you know you gotta get to. It'll get there. It just might get there 10 minutes in or might get there an hour and 10 minutes in. You're not gonna control that part. Let the rest of it fall into place. I think that's great. - Well, actually with this individual, like the main trafficker that I spoke to, he initially set it up for, okay, yeah, let's just like meet quick, chat and goodbye. But once we met and started chatting, he got very comfortable and wanted to continue talking and that was why it ended up going a few hours. - Do you ever wonder 'cause like you're a young female reporter? - Helps 100%. - Yeah. - Entirely. - It is an advantage. - Oh, totally. - Are you ever worried about that? I mean, you're dealing with it. - Yeah, of course. - With a fucking monster here, so. - Of course, but I have like, I don't know, maybe, I don't know if it's me being naive or just I have a big ego, but I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's a mixture of both. I think that shows my age. But I always feel like with people like that, if it got to a point, we're likely we're gonna do something with someone like that I could rationalize my way out of it. - Rationalize? - Yeah. - How would you do that? - No, don't rate me. (laughing) - That's it. - He's got to do it. - I'm joking. - He took that so seriously. - You really think that would be my strategy? - Yeah, I didn't think you'd actually say it like that, but the kind of kind of thing. - No, no, no, no. - It would just be like, I can't do it with you. Like I have to be in the moment, but I just have a feeling like in the moment because it's come to certain moments where I feel like I'm in danger or there's something where the vibe switches and I can kind of rationalize with them. - I do think that like. - You like want something to happen? - No, I don't. - K-so stuff. - No, don't say that. I don't. I joke about you with things because you put yourself in very dangerous scenarios all the time and that's part of like completely. - Not with the intention of something bad happening to me. - I understand that, but like when you do, it's just the law of probabilities. When you do it a lot of times over and over again, like the probabilities of something not great happening, whatever that is are higher than for the average person. You understand that? - Yeah. - Okay. What I'm saying is though, I do think the fact that you have like elephant balls in these situations placed to your advantage. It's just like the thing I worry about is the one time you're with someone who genuinely doesn't even respect that. 'Cause I think a lot of the guys respect that. - They do. - God damn, you know? But like when you-- - And they've told me that, which is typically when I know okay, we're in the green. And a lot of them have actually even told me, they're like, I don't know what kind of guy would want to go with you like fuck. But when I hear that, that's great. That's a really, it means that they're not gonna try some bullshit. And I'm not worried about someone who doesn't respect that. I'm worried about someone who's like so high out of their fucking mind that there is no rationale. - Right. - That's my concern. Or someone who's like fresh, like just started in this shit and they're freaking the fuck out and they're doing drugs and they're trigger happy and just crazy. That's what I would worry about. I feel like that's more likely than me meeting with a high level person and them turning on me. It's more likely gonna be some bottom of the barrel kid who's just pissed off about something super high. And decides to just do some bullshit. - There's two psychological components to it. One is all it takes is one and you're talking to people all the time. That's why it's so dangerous. But also it's like that's the job too. And that's why you do it well. Like if you're gonna go do this, you're gonna be in situations like that and it kinda, you know, it is what it is. And it's worked out. Obviously at this point and that's good. It's just like I do hope there's gonna be a workaround at some point here where I'm not saying you go in there and an armored vehicle everywhere and shit like that and make it like a whole thing which might really limit your job. But if there's a way to have a little more security around you, just something. - That's what I'm actually trying to figure out. Especially after the highway situation. This is like a conversation that I've been having because yeah. - I mean, you know a lot of good people who are familiar with that environment down there. I gotta think one of them's gonna be able to come up with something that's like, okay, this could work. And we're still able to do art. Like you don't wanna be- - I don't wanna hinder. - Yeah. - That's like one thing because some people were like, well, like what you said, well, like have like an armored vehicle or don't go to these places or don't meet with these people. And I'm like, but that's what sets these stories apart from everything else that we're seeing. Like this is in a way, a lot of it is really unprecedented access. And I think that's important. Like it's being able to see everything and there's like exposure to these regions and people that are typically very operating in like the dark quarters type of thing. That's what makes it good and interesting. - I agree. - So I don't wanna lose that. But I feel like it's just gonna take like one more- Okay, actually I say this, I wasn't saying, it's just gonna take one more close call and I'm gonna be done. But then I've been saying that. It's like the first time I go, "Elde, I'm point." I'm like, okay, it's done now. Where I called my dad, I'm like, "It's done." - And three days later. - It's like a bullie canaza, let's go. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's like a momentarily thing. And then you start to rationalize the fear and you're like, "I wasn't that bad. "They were never gonna actually do something to me." - That's right. - That's my problem. - Yeah. - 'Cause something will happen that is inherently bad and then like after the fact, - It was in my head. - Yeah, oh, I was making a big deal out of it. Like, no, it was not that deep. And they were just trying to scare me and it worked and whatever and then I go back. - Well, the fact of the matter is when it comes to people that like are English speakers or speak it well as a second language, you could literally, as far as people that are actually down there really getting stories and really consistently reporting on things, I could almost count on my two hands, how many of them exist. And I've had a half of them in this studio. There's not many, you know? Like it's not, now there's people in Mexico, native Spanish speakers and stuff. I don't know what's beginning English who have been down there doing it and there's way. - And they're really good at it, but there's also so at risk. - Right. - Because they're not protected by anyone and they're totally a threat, you know? - Yeah. - And it's been proven how disposable they are. They just murdered kidnapped a female journalist and barracruz from her house and murdered her. - When did this happen? - They just recently and her kidnapping was livestreamed. There's a video of it. - Which quartel did it? - So here's the thing. I think it was cops. Yeah, there was some-- - War is for who? - The government. - One of the take for who? - It's like a government thing. - Oh, you think it's just purely the government? - I think there's some, yeah, Roxana. - What the fuck? Okay, Mexico, Roxana, Guzman, third journalist murdered and barracruz in 2026, RSF demands, urgent answers. Reporters without borders strongly condemns the murder. of Journalist Roxana Baranisco-Smanra Miras, director of the news outlet Pulso Informacio del Cereste, who was abducted on 2 June in Nanchitala in the state of Veracruz and found dead nearly a month later. This crime confirms the authorities failure to protect the press and marks the third journalist killed in the state in just that state. Since the beginning of 2026, RSF calls on the office of the Attorney General of the Republic to conduct a prompt thorough transparent data. On the morning of June 2nd, armed mass men forced their way into Roxana Baranisco-Smanra Miras' home in Nanchitala in southern Veracruz. After threatening her, they abducted her. The office of the Attorney General of the Republic took over the investigation and today eight people have been arrested, including four municipal police officers from, how do you say that word? X-Watlandel Cereste? X-Watlandel Cereste? Okay. A town in southern Veracruz, another suspect in the abduction Jose Del Carmen Codena Esquayola, known as Delta 7, was identified through CCTV footage of the attack, according to the Mexican media reports. Following his arrest, he allegedly directed investigators to a location where the journalist might be found where authority to discovered human remains. On July 3rd, the Veracruz State Attorney General's office confirmed that the remains found on a ranch between the municipalities of X-Watlandel Cereste and Molo Acon were those of journalist Roxana Guzman. The journalist headed Pulso in from a T-Vo Del Cereste at Facebook News page covering local community affairs, citizens concerned, public services, municipal politics, and security issues. So they think that this was for four of the people. Right, but my question is, are they on the take from CGMG? From CGMG. So Veracruz is CGMG, but I have a feeling that there was an issue with her political reporting. Okay, let me back door it again then. Is the issue with her political reporting the fact that she's reporting bad political things about politicians who are owned by say CGMG? Yeah, it always comes back to that for sure. But your journalist in Mexico, you're getting abducted and murdered by crops. That's like the most textbook Mexican democracy security, like all of it together. And it all came to a head with her. That's insane. It's brutal. I mean, it's incredibly brave for all of you, but especially the people who are who are from there and have been reporting on this for years. It's I mean a nightmare. So I went to I was just in Kuliekan a week ago. And because I want to see what it's like since had you been back since Kuliekanazza? No, I haven't been back since after Mayo. Like I was the last time I was there was after they got in Mayo. Okay. And so I went back because Kuliekan on the map, deep for people out there, but go ahead. Because I think Kuliekan has some of the best journalists like they're just and so underrated and they're just so fucking talented and honest and you say I have elephant balls. These guys is like twofold. Okay. And it was brutal within the first like six, 12 hours that I was there. I went to eight different crime scenes, different murders, murders. Yeah. It was terrible. And so one of the girls she's a journalist. She's the only girl that does the breaking crime news type of thing. So murder, shootouts, whatever. And she's young. And she was telling me that one time she got to a scene before the police did. And how source? Well, so she's getting like reports from people like on Facebook and she's all shot fired. Right. Because like people in Kuliekan also like are so on edge that like any bang people are already on Facebook like they're shot fired. And it's like no, like a guy just like dropped something changing entire type of thing. So she was telling me how not too long ago she attended a scene before the cops got there. So she's like waiting in her car because she's like, I don't know if I should get out yet. I should wait for the cops just get body there. This guy in a car of truck comes out behind her. There's like multiple guys in the truck. He has a machine gun taps her window with it and was like, give me your fucking phone. And she's like freaking out obviously. And he's like, what the hell are you doing here? Like your journalist, what the hell are you doing here? But she's like, sorry, like I'm just a reporter. I just come take pictures of stuff like this, you know, and young and this is not a nice situation to be in. You have this guy. And so he grabs her phone and she was telling me it was like one of those pink flip phones that you can get now. And she was like, I love that phone. And he smashes the phone. And then someone in the truck yells at him, no, take the phone. And he's like, no, like fuck it, but she's not going to have the phone. And then she's like, can I go? And he's like, no, wait, we need to figure out what to do with you. And someone in the truck is yelling, take her. And he goes, we don't have to take her just as long as we got rid of the phone. Yeah, imagine this poor girl is sitting there. Oh my god, just brutal. Anyways, they let her go. But apparently, yes, they kept using her, her phone from that moment on. Like they ended up taking her phone. They were using her WhatsApp and stuff like that. Jesus Christ. So you for people that don't remember when you were first here back in episode 265, we talked a lot about Kulikanaso, what was going on there? And that was a couple of years ago. Now can you just review that for people that that wasn't the Kulikanaso? That wasn't that was that was El Mayo's capture. Kulikanaso was before that. It was a year before that. But you were there for that. No, you weren't that I didn't go to Kulikanaso. You were just there for the aftermath. Yeah, no, I was there for I was there for two years ago when El Mayo was abducted and arrested in the United States and held all held broke out in Sinaloa because it fractured the Sinaloa cartel because the Chafitos El Chapos kids set up El Mayo, the leader of one of the leaders of the Sinaloa cartel to then hand him over to United States authorities. So I went there for that and the city was on fire. There were dead bodies everywhere, shootouts all night long. There was a stay home order. Like people, kids were doing a school from home. People couldn't go to work. It was a whole thing. And he was also set up well at that time too. There was a big problem because I probably said this on that episode, the governor of Sinaloa is very corrupt. Revent Rocha Moia. And I interviewed him when I went during that time because also at that point in time a lot of journalists were dying. There was a lot of rhetoric that he's super corrupt and he also works with the Chapitos and he played a major role in giving up El Mayo to the United States and all of this shit. And now he was just indicted by the U.S. Oh he was. On drug traffic. Working with the Sinaloa cartel in the southern district in New York. Yeah. Whoa. So they're trying to extradite him but the president of Mexico is sort of in a way kind of protecting him. Yeah, there's a lot going on there too because the Mexican government is investigating the United States on their involvement in El Mayo. Now of course the United States government was involved but what's the deal there? Why are they? So the FBI or like the ambassador in Mexico told what you're good. It's just someone's dying outside your fun. Told the Mexican government that they did not they did not have FBI and there was no FBI involvement in capturing El Mayo that he just simply ended up in the United States because he was probably betrayed by a faction and he was just given up. Okay. Now that plane that flew El Mayo from Mexico into New Mexico, the United States is in the FBI museum. Come on. Show casing. It's part of a showcase of our successes in like FBI operations. That's talking out of both sides of your ass. Isn't that crazy? That's nuts. I know. So then Mexico freaks out and Shinbom is like well we need to investigate them because now they're clearly somebody lied to us. Right. And they're trying to basically say that the US has been been conducting these unilateral operations in Mexico. And it like obviously. Yeah, obviously. I know. Also, and the next question, I'm not even blaming them for like being pissed about it. Look what the fuck are they gonna do about it? No, like what okay, what are you gonna investigate? Like clearly the US doesn't give a fuck because they put that plane dude. They did they were like yeah you guys not don't worry we went there but look at what we just did is crazy. We're sticking in the museum. I mean, my guess is like it's just her trying to do some political positioning for her own people to act like she's not a total emperor without clothes but I know you're gonna investigate the CIA and the FBI and you get the fuck out of here. But I don't know if it's that because if she has hadn't had she brought it up herself. If she didn't want to look like the emperor without clothes, she could have just ignored it. And I don't think people would have really noticed. That's the largest known at the time drug trafficker who was internationally wanted was flown out to the United States tied up on a plane. Not that that the US lied to them about it. I mean, where was he flown? He wasn't flown to fucking Costa Rica. No, I know. You know, I don't know what the play is with this. I really don't, but it's weird. It's weird. So this was and I remember you interviewed this guy, right? Yeah, and I was and I was getting so much heat from people being like, you're making it up. How do you know he's corrupt? How do you know he works for the cartel? I'm like, you were giving me a take a look at this motherfucker. He's literally the governor of the worst cartel state. If I if I were casting a movie on like rogue governor working for cartels in Mexico, he's the poster child. You were looking. So governor of Cinaloa and nine other current and former Mexican officials charged with drug trafficking and weapons offenses. This is from April 29, 2026. So cat was two years early on this one. The defendants allegedly conspired with leaders of the Cinaloa cartel to import massive quantities of narcotics into the United States and exchange for political support and bribes. The United States attorney for sudden justice in New York, Jay Clayton, who definitely has never heard of Jeffrey Epstein in his life and an administrator of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, Terence Cole announced today the unceiling of an indictment charging Ruben Rocha-Moya and Rique in Zuaza, Kazarez and Rique Diaz Vega, De Maso Castro Zaveidra, Marco Antonio Almanza Aviles, Alberto Jorge Contreras Núñez, aka Cholo, Herardo Merida Sanchez, Jose Antonio Dinosio Hippolito, aka Tornado, Juan de Dios Gamas Medvedo, and Juan Valencia Milán, aka Juanito, with drug trafficking and related weapons offenses. Milán is additionally charged with offenses related to the participation and kidnappings of a DEA source. Can't do that. And the source is relative that it resulted in their deaths. The defendants are all current or former high-ranking government and law enforcement officials in the Mexican state of Cinaloa, including the current governor of Cinaloa, Ruben Rocha-Moya, and are alleged to have partnered with the Cinaloa cartel to distribute massive quantities of narcotics in the U.S. the cases assigned to district judge Catherine Pulk. Bye. Yeah. All right. So, where did so Rocha-Moya as far as who he was getting paid off obviously by the cartel there, but was he, I forget was he loyal to like a faction? Yeah. So he's loyal to the non-elmaio fact. So did he, obviously he's still, he's governor of reform and governor after El Mayo is abducted, but was that also like a power play for him in the sense that now Elmaio was out there? Well, yeah, because the whole thing was that Elmaio was supposed to be meeting up with Chappitos and Rocha-Moya to discuss, discuss the future of Cinaloa and their dealings and certain political differences and probably bribes and shit. Right. And he's on his, and he's on his way to this meeting, to meet with this, to meet with this very guy where then he ends up fucking blindfolded in this small aircraft and then on a tarmac in United States. Tough way to go. I'd be pissed. I'd be pretty pissed too. He was so under the radar for so many years too. He let El Chapo be the public guy. He was the private guy, the grandfather in the hills, if you will. And there was organization. Now it's so chaotic there. Yeah. What so their economy is fuck. Yeah, we've had a couple people in talking about some of it recently, but I call it around. Let's just hear again. Oh, yeah, I saw that. But what's what's their economy's fucked? Was it functioning before? Yes. It was good before. Cinaloa, Kuleka, Masadlan, great nightlife. So they don't have that now. Food. They're known for like gastronomy. Nothing. So people aren't going out. People aren't going there. Tourism's way down because everyone's going to need done. Done. Yeah. How does that end? I don't know. I don't know. Actually, when I was there and I went to one of the crime scene, some of the reporters and the cops were all kind of chatting. And because a report had come out that Kulekhan's economy is going to go back to normal in the next 10 years. And they were all like, fuck this reporter who wrote this. And this is bullshit. And like fair and off, right? Yeah. And I was like, yeah, but what needs to happen? And they were like, well, exactly what the cops are letting happen, which is they all just need to kill each other off. And someone needs to prevail in this war. That's what's crazy. It's like, and I got it, man, I don't have a good argument against this, but it's so dark. It's like, if you have the devil, you know down there. And you know that like that's who's in charge and there's just a bunch of devil's shooting each other. That is better than having the devil's shoot each other in terms of like quality of life for innocent people and just like the society. Yes. 100%. How long were you there this time? Two weeks. And I wanted to stay longer in it. But I had to go for this story. But I every time I go to Sinaloa, I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know. I think it's the people. Every time I'm there. And every time I leave, I'm like kind of emotional. Really? Yeah. I don't know. I have a heart, Julian. Somewhere in there. Deep down. Yeah. Deep down. Frozen. But it's so uncool. Yeah. That's right. It brings it out. And that's another problem. It's so hot. Everyone's like fucking amped up. But people aren't going out at night and stuff right now. No, but they're not. Because it's too hot in the day. All the killings are happening in like evening, late afternoon, night. Are they happening? They're literally happening in the middle of town all over the place. Everywhere. Everywhere. The Walmart guy walking out just went grocery shopping with his family. Go ahead and down. Guy in like a residential. I literally, I went to all of it. There was, I went to the Walmart parking lot, went to residential neighborhood. I went to like a kind of poor area. I went to like a really wealthy area. Busy, not busy. It doesn't matter. Body, body, body. Like just so many bodies. So even like in the wealthy neighborhoods, people just get hit there. I mean, I guess some of them live there. Does that make sense? Yeah. They do. That's exactly the problem. Yeah. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. And it's crazy because like we're going from crime scene to crime scene to show this stuff. And like it's just, oh, the same cops are pulling up. They were just at the last scene all together. Like it's just like clockwork. Is anybody winning right now? Memories that I can't say that anymore or ever. I don't remember that. Last episode you asked me at the end. And I said that I have made the decision that I will, I'm not going to say that because I will. Yeah. Well, you said the cartel watches this podcast. They do. Yeah, I wasn't surprised by that. Oh, yeah. Hello. How are you? I get it, you know, when things are active going on there, half of it is the politics of the optics of how it looks. So that's how they recruit up. We're doing well. You got to join. So yeah, the ones that some other ones that speak English will watch a lot of like some guys who work in it and they were like deported. Right. So they'll watch. We're going to have Spanish subtitles soon. So they'll be able to watch. We're inclusive around here. What was I going to tell you about that? There was something I wanted. Well, I asked you if someone was winning and said you can't. Yeah. Yeah. There is. How can I say this? I actually can't. Yeah, no. It's just brutal. It's bodies are dropping all over the place. All factions there are unfortunately powerful. Continue to be that way. Fair to say. Okay. And it's constantly changing. Yeah. Like who has control of here and here? It's just, it's a bloodbath. Do we have any idea what the power structures look like? Like who's not just number one, but like, you know, I'm just thinking of this in my head biased towards like the US would like the mafia and how they're organized and everything. Is there any organization in the middle of like an all out fucking cartel war like that or is it just like, you know, they got their top 100 guys. Everyone figured out. What do you mean? Like the way that the that the cartel continues to operate. They have a business to run. Like either faction, they're running drugs, they're doing what they do and all that. But in the middle of this, they're all gone in each other down and shut their in the middle of a war. So is there any real like power structure that is set up? Yes, there is. Okay. Yeah. In in both the factions. But guys are still people in the power structure getting killed all the time. So they have to replace people. And that has been problematic because now there are some people that are, you know, getting hired left for aid in center and they are killing innocent people because they don't They're mistaken identity or they're on too much drugs. Just causing a lot of chaos, but because there's this need for manpower, everyone's in it. Right. Now you actually said something earlier when you were talking about the trafficker you were sitting with and the difference was sitting with him that stuck with me where you were saying something along the lines of, you know, when I'm sitting with the other guys, their cartel guys, they're in the business, they're killing other people in the business and stuff like that. This guy's trafficking innocent people and doing all that and I agree. This guy's horrible and the shitty does is horrible. The only thing is when it comes to the cartel guys and like killing other people in the cartel and stuff in Mexico, there's to me way more spillover. There is a lot of spillover to innocent people. I know it's and I didn't mean to like compartment. Yeah. Yeah. It's still bad. You know, I'm not trying to twist your words. I'm just wondering. But there is a lot of spillover. And you know what? Like one thing that really sends out to me, it's not just spillover in terms of citizens are dying. That's also like it's not super common in Sinaloa right now. It's it's mostly pretty much like all the murders that I attended to. The individual was involved in one way or another. Right. Okay. There's like a level and these are hits that are being taken out. It's not just like this spring bullets and see where it falls. But the one thing that really sticks out to me is the destruction of everyone's livelihood. So it's not just that people are getting killed or like caught in the crossfire literally. It's a matter of so many people have lost their jobs, their livelihoods, their sense of safety. Everyone is super paranoid and on edge all the time. So the quality of life has deteriorated. And that to me is very sad. And that's like one thing. As a journalist that I was taught is like as a journalist, if a story can negatively impact or like can ruin someone's life like in terms of actually kill them or it can ruin their livelihood, those are one of the same. You it's if you if I was so blower come up to me and they're like listen, I'm not going to get killed for telling you this, but my life will be destroyed if you put out my identity. That is just as bad as that person getting murdered. And so seeing in Sinoloa, how everyone's livelihoods have been ruined, it's very sad. And you have friends that you over the past. Yeah. You keep in touch with great people. Yes. And it's just like and they're there every day. All the time. And it's horrible. I can't imagine. Well, I can. That's why I know it's bad. Do we have we seen concrete examples of like law enforcement and stuff literally getting in on the hits that are happening there, like doing it themselves similar similar to what we saw with that journalist who was killed. I haven't seen that in in Kulikhan, but one thing is for sure is that law enforcement and in Sinoloa, there's a shit ton of it. Okay. That's like all the fucking national guard is there the army state police federal. What? Attending to the scene. That's it. There is they are not tasked with stopping the crime. Clean it up after that's it. That's crazy. They are literally being told let these guys kill each other off. I was told that word for word from federal police investigation. That's what we're supposed to do. We're not here to prevent this blood bath. They just all need to kind of like exterminate themselves. How do they work with the existing population though that includes a lot of young men between ages eight and 13 and 15 and 16 who are going to be vulnerable to just be the next man up in the next body. I know. I know. And it enough. They're not doing anything. No. It's like putting a bandaid on a bullet hole. It's like worse. Yeah. Just letting it bleed out like a sip. Yeah. I need to go smoke. Okay. We'll be right back. Also, what's the shit you're getting extorted on? We're back by the way. Oh God. I'm trying to do this story where I have incredible access. But now I don't know what changed. This used to never be the case for me. And now it is everybody like wants something now to give me access. Whether it's a pair of Nike runners or some cash or a bottle of something. And it's so brutal. Like a few years ago, I could just pull up. Hey, can we chat? No. Okay. I'll go fuck myself or yes. Great. Like let's sit down. But now it's like they want my first born for fucking access. And it's really pissing me off. And it's really hard to navigate. But that's okay. I'll figure it out because what I'm really curious to find out firsthand is what this new leadership of C.G. and G looks like. And so I'm really willing to go to any length. Because I'm under the impression that C.R.O.3, which was a man, it's a mental stepson had actually been leading C.G. and G for quite a while before he was allegedly killed. Because El Menteau was very sick. I don't even know if that's why I just think that it was like this hand over a power. Why would El Menteau do that? C.R.O.3. And that's what I want to find out. But I'm under the impression that there's Juan Carlos. I think that he is very respected in the organization. He also is an American citizen. He seems based on people I've spoken to, whatever, to exude like a really strong sense of power and leadership. And he was definitely highly trusted by Menteau and by the Balenciac clan, you know, that family that he comes from, El Menteau's ex-wife, which we talked about this last year, Kennedys of Mexico. And so I'm really trying to get in and I want to know what has changed or how long he has been the leader for. So you have sources of some capacity who have been whisper in this. And that's since El Menteau died, you've started to get this information. Yes. Okay. The El Menteau thing really like changed so much. And so much of that was just so weird. I know we got into the guts of this last time I was here where the scene just looked set up. And why is there no photo of his dead body when that would be such that was such a win for Mexico in a way that I feel like if it was the truth, they would have milked the fuck out of it. They've done it with every other kingpin. So yeah, I really want to tell that story. I want to get it and try to get as much information as possible. Yeah. Now you were there. We had you on episode 392 right after you went to the compound and you covered that last time and talked about you were there literally three days after he was killed or something like that. And we got to see some of the videos you took and you talked about how strange the whole shell casings littered everywhere, but no bullet holes, no damage. Yeah. Now have you got, has there been more to that since then? Have you been able to talk to people that have corroborated? I don't know some theories about that or why it would have been that way or is it still a huge question mark? For me, it's still a huge question mark. And I go back and forth on this and because I've still been trying to pursue the story and I fully understand what the power dynamic of C.G. and G looks like from within Mexico. I have just not been presented with enough solid facts or it's very frustrating because nothing seems to have changed, which means either a mancho isn't dead or Sedolteres has been the leader for a long fucking time already. Unless I'm just thinking outside the box here from totally outside looking in unless there was unbeknownst to us, which it didn't appear this way by the way when he got killed. Unless there was a very clear secession plan already long set up, meaning like zero traces of pencil is essentially right next to all mencho, hand in hand doing everything. And so when all mencho gets taken out, he's already been right there, maybe not necessarily like literally in charge, but he's had his hand on the wheel. So now he just takes it totally possible. But I think it would be good to understand what the internal dynamics look like right now. Also, what are their plans in terms of Sinaloa because C.G.N.G. has that alliance with the Chappitas faction of the Sinaloa cartel. And that hasn't changed? No, that still exists. Yeah. So that alliance like are they sending bodies or are they sending more weapons? It's both, but mostly manpower. Yeah. And I actually found out that after a mancho was killed, built a ton of the guys who were sent over for that alliance to Sinaloa retreated. Like on their own or were told to unclear. All I know is that there was up to high level of retreat. Everyone got the fuck out of there. And I'm that's what I'm curious about because does that mean they were under the impression that the alliance would fall the roof because Kingpin has been taken out? Or was it that this alliance really isn't as strong as we think? I don't know. I don't know what's going on there. It could be, you know, I don't want to oversimplify it. But sometimes you'll see in like college football or the NFL or the NBA or something like that, there will be a long time head coach and there's a retirement plan in the sense that he's going to leave. And so and so who's already on the staff is going to take his place. He's been his right hand forever. They're best friends. He's been training them all that. But when so and so takes over, yes, there's continuity. But so and so maybe like, yeah, I'm going to bring in my own athletic trainer though. It's not like every single thing is going to be the same. So I wonder if again, playing out that scenario I just pointed out a few minutes ago, it's like if it's like there was a clear, the scenario is that there was a clear succession plan and zero trace took over. Part of the thing that might have been a different calculation for him was, you know what? Maybe we don't need to get involved in that as much and basically calls the boys home. Let's worry about this and they're all like, oh, yeah, okay. We know he's coming in charge. We knew that going in. We're good. Let's do it. And that would also play into what I talked about with you last time that it's quite possible that Elmencio was going to surrender during this operation and he wasn't supposed to die. He was just supposed to be taken into custody because his son requested to reduce his sentencing in December. So two months before Elmencio was taken out. Yeah. So with him running it though, it's been pretty business as usual. It's been business as usual entirely because after all of this happened, I really thought that we would see like a gulic and also type of thing, right? There are a lot of the top guys, Sapple, how do they know are are gunning for power. We didn't see that happen. And then how do the net was captured in like April? So it seems like there are really big players within CG and G that are falling. However, the actual organization seems to be business as usual and running very smoothly, which is not typical for a no CG. Yeah. Now, how has their business been with the new administration being, you know, obviously still have a lot of problems on the border, but being much stricter as opposed to the previous administration, just from like a flow and revenue standpoint? Well, the thing is flow in terms for CG and G has been pretty solid because this administration, their main concern was the fentanyl, right? I mean, oh, so they say even though they didn't declare it a WMD until like a year later, in December. But CG and G is very much humans, meth, coke and fuel theft, what you call, that's all business as usual. And cocaine is flooding the US like never before with no problem. What about so would the human part though? Obviously, there's a lot that goes into that, everything from like coyotes running people across the border and stuff, which obviously on some level, they're still able to do. But like you broke up in the story with La Diabla that you referenced earlier that, you know, was this horrible thing where the babies, yeah, where they're basically abducting young mothers, getting them pregnant and stripping the babies on and selling them, which is just like, can't even imagine that. But after your report came out, the United States and Mexican authorities were able to at least get rid of that node, but are there other operations, even if it's not the same thing that are similar in their level of disgustingness that they're doing? The human trafficking stuff is actually happening within Mexico. Within Mexico. Yeah. So they're bringing in women from Colombia, Venezuela, you know, South America, and they're working them in Mexico, whether it's in Mexico City or border towns. They're sourcing them from other South American countries. So they have obviously operations on the ground in those countries directly. Oh, of course. Yeah. Yes. And C.G. has a really tight Colombian connection. Is it more like a sociates in Colombia who work directly with them? Or is it like literally they're sending their guys to the away team? Both. And mostly they have like C.G. And you guys posted up in Colombia. And then what do they do? Traffic? These girls and shipping containers? It's mostly just it's flights. They're not like kidnapping victims. They're being offered modeling jobs or waitress jobs when they get there. Yeah. They're working as prostitutes. And even for some of the girls, they're being told like, and even a lot of them are going to Europe, to Spain. Yeah. Amsterdam. And. And the cartels has serious operations there on the ground. Yeah, especially for the sex trafficking because they have access to the women. And so even a lot of these girls, they, some of them are already like sex workers in a capacity in like Colombia, for example, okay? And then they'll meet a guy who's like, do you want to make like $20,000? But you have to go to Spain. Yeah, okay. And then obviously once they get there, they're being worked to the bone and they have to pay off the debt that they incurred by being brought over there, right? You're playing ticket, you're lodge and board all of that. So that's problematic. And obviously those debts never go away. They just continue to grow. Of course. Yeah. So it's basically a Ponzi scheme to keep them in Sloan Chark into the highest career to keep them in. And after what happened in the earthquake in Venezuela, it really picked up too because what's the correlation there? So there's this massive environmental crisis, right? And everyone's freaking out. And law enforcement or authorities, whatever responding to so many different things, everyone's looking at different, a different direction. So kids and girls are getting picked up. Whether it's kidnapped, whether it's through, they're being lured, it's a big problem. It's a big problem because they become very vulnerable. I think there's actually some like public videos about it. The fact that, and this is way beyond the cartels, this is an international thing. This is something unfortunately it's huge in America too. The fact that a business, a crime like human trafficking, whether it's kids, whether it's women, any form of it, the fact that it is as large and rampant of a fucking Fortune 5 company, if you will, around the world to this day. With all the technology we have, all the interconnection we have, all the, I don't know, more awareness on the stuff we have, the fact that is that large is one of the most depressing things ever because it's like, man, will we ever be able to get rid of it even if people are still so willing and able to do it and get away with it in the highest of places of society and all over the place in the world that is that interconnected? I actually think that that expansion of tech helps them. It's not something that is a deterrent or like helps authorities. It helps them. For example, okay, 20 years ago, money laundering was straight up cash and you're giving like the number on the bill, which is like the password to hand over the cash bubble. Now it's all crypto and remittance and you can't trace any of that. So as tech evolves, so does their capacity as criminal organizations? There should be some sort of cancellation out though. I worry so much about the surveillance state and shit like that. Trust me. There's a lot there. That's not what I'm going at at all. But I'm like, there should be some ability to get more communication among the public, like the masses to be able to assist in stopping this. Now I got to say, in America, I think that should be a lot easier and we do a horrible job with that here. I have to admit in a place like Mexico, for example, like the place that you mentioned earlier where the whole town's fucking in on it. It's hard. It's at that. It's just so sad that something like that exists so openly today. But it's hard. It's really shitty and it's really hard to when you begin to understand the level of how many people are affected by this. It's brutal. And there's so much money involved in so many different people in high places that there is no end in it. The question that I was always getting asked was, okay, well, how do you end the cartels or how do you end drugs and people are like, oh, you know, you just have to kill the demand. Well, obviously there's a demand for everything. That's never going to work. And after seeing and doing this sex trafficking story and seeing that it's not that your daughter is just gonna be scooped up off the street and ends up in a brothel in It's that she's gonna fall in love with some guy and be so deeply manipulated that just like the woman I interviewed After having been pimped out by him for 10 years. She still considers him to be her husband Even when she's presented with the evidence that it was an operation the worst yeah, oh yeah, yeah Literally told me He right now because he runs girls in the United States with his family But I have a child with him So I will never cut him off and that was my first love and I said to her I said how can you love someone Or continue to be with someone who made your life a living hell And she said because if I'm not with him I will be alone because no other man will accept me for having done what I did But he accepts me bro It was fucking insane. He accepts me for the things that he made me do in the first place I said what is that like having to have given sexual services to 30 men every night for 10 years She's like is the worst thing you could possibly imagine she said she didn't sleep for years like it literally did not sleep How do you have any I don't know how you have any kind of human connection or relationship In any way after subject in yourself to something like that. It's always transactional It's purely you can't and I interview a woman who She's not trafficked and she works as a prostitute In a border town and does like her own thing like she's independent. She's been doing it for like over 20 years And I said to her I was like how do you have um personal relationships or romantic relationships because I brought up the other woman I said the other woman I spoke to said she will never be able to And she says I can But if there's no money piece It doesn't work that sense of a genuine romantic or loving connection has been completely destroyed that does not exist anymore and I can only imagine how much worse it would be for someone like the woman in the Scholar that I spoke to Who was absolutely betrayed by someone she thought loved her yeah the fact that that's such a common Operation they run to as wild. Hmm. She said when they went to TJ There were five other girls In and out living in the house with them because that's all the girls he was running And he was he had done that to all them too. Oh yeah. Yeah. How do you marry to all them? He didn't marry all of them I don't actually even know if she's legally married to him um, but he was all of their boyfriend love of their lives And she knows that yeah But she also said she goes but there's a part of him that loves me and I was shook to my core I I I have oh I I cried in this interview like I started tearing up and I was trying to hold it back and that's never happened to me Or I did with the yeah the mom and quarters but when you're hearing that like You have been so battered and just everything stripped of everything that you have at your identity and dignity anything it's all gone I felt so bad for her genuinely. I felt so sorry for her. How did she react when you were crying? Oh, because she was crying Oh, she was yeah, what made her cry? What was it that made her cry? Oh What made her cry? I asked her uh because she has a son And I said If you had had a daughter and I was gonna ask her What would have happened if she had had a daughter like would she also be recruited into this And before I could finish my question she was like I prayed to God every night that I would never get pregnant with a girl And then start she's bawling and she goes I I would never want to have a daughter I would never bring a girl into this world because it's horrible for women Whoa, so she knows in the back of her head what it is but then she cognitive dissonance in the front about the guy who's the root cause of her having that opinion in the first place Yes, what about her son is she worried about him being recruited into doing what his dad does I asked that and she said she doesn't know and she's gonna cross that bridge when it gets there Cross that bridge when because I said that I said would you're with the your son's father Take him and bring him into this and she goes I don't know But what I'm trying to do is raise him the best I can so that if that is ever presented to him. He knows that it's wrong Does the son have a relationship with the father? Yeah, and has no idea he has no idea that He was the devil to his mother and she and I said that to her I said why didn't you just take off with the kid and just ditch this guy entirely and she goes I'd never want I didn't want my child to grow up without a father This one I know did you say that? What like I you probably would have said that a lot and I said I made but like even that one Like that guy yeah, like like like that's I can't say that that's a judge that's a different question Of course, that's what I'm saying you're not gonna say it like that But was there a way you were able to be like have you thought about The tradeoff of like this being his father versus not having a father which also isn't great agreed I mean, I've spoken with some really evil people who are Great parents. Yeah. Yeah. Love their kids. Mm-hmm I've heard that about a lot of cartoge guys by the way. Oh, they're like that they are top-notch for that Evil but treat their kids like they're absolute angels when it comes to their kids and so Even though this guy Is definitely a horrible person and ruin this woman's life Oh, and I actually asked for that. I said did he ruin your life? Because and I know would never ask something like that, but it was so in it with her and she said yeah Well, so she knows that and she's still But there's some weird it's it's it's like a what do you call it like Helsinki syndrome? Is that what that is like that? No, it's not Helsinki It's um Stockholm Stockholm. Yeah Helsinki It's another one over there Milano syndrome whatever um Yeah, that's that's what it is because then I was telling her I'm like uh also he's In the states so you don't see him she goes he comes sometimes he pays for Costs related to the child allegedly so he's All the time I take it. He's not a citizen in the United States. I don't know I almost think he might be Based on the way she was telling me about certain operations of his And with the whole family too um And she um She said yeah, he pays for all of her stuff and then I asked her well, what do you think you would have done if this didn't happen And she's like I always I like baking I would have like to have a bakery bro that shit Is so fucking sad like that's just the simplest way to put it You wanted to be a baker Where her parents are they alive? So this is why this is such a twofold problem because I'm I met with her family Um because I asked her why she didn't call her family and ask for help and she said well He was monitoring my phone and also, you know, I didn't want to burden my parents whatever And when I met with her family they still refer to him as their son-in-law Is it didn't you say correct me from wrong? They were targeting like young innocent preferably virgin conservative households? Oh, she lost her virginity with him right yeah, so this is like a Very family values kind of household you're talking to and they referred to him as the son-in-law. Mm-hmm and they knew I'm under the impression that they were profiting off of it the family yeah yeah You'll see it in my report. I really lay it all out how it makes sense what made you think that um How they talked about how he paid for these renovations on their house and they added like oh And they said that open and I said did you ever wonder like what was happening to your daughter while she was in to one of her 10 years and They said well, you know, we we figured that she was fine because she was with him And it's very common in this region Laxcala for Families to just kind of turn a blind eye or be complicit in it because they're also receiving money from it And I think that's why she was so willing to talk to me and tell me her story Because there was like this part of her in the back of her mind That new all these truths But it's so traumatized to traumatize to accept them And based on our phone call I think she realized If I tell this girl what happened, like at least someone will fucking know. And I hope that doesn't sound ecotistical. - No, no, she had nowhere else to turn. - There's very talkative. - Your family is profiting and bragging about the money that they're making from you getting fucked all for just, oh my God. And I don't even literally mean like fucked like sex. I mean like literally just getting fucked over. - Did you tell them, did you tell the family the details of what you knew? - About her? - Yeah. - Not at all. - That's a good thing. - Definitely not. I would never do that to someone. - Like you were. - I don't know what they know. - Or you're under the impression that they probably know in the back of their head. - Oh, they know. - So many things are happening to you. - They know. - Did you talk to her about, so you talk to her, then you talk to the family in that order, right? - I talk to her family and then her. - Oh, and then her. Okay. So remind me here, did you already know the details before you talked with her about what specifically was happening to her other than the she was traffic? Meaning like, did you know she was sleeping with 30 guys a night? - No, she, that's all from her. - Okay. - To the extent that what I knew about her was she was trafficked to, and was there for 10 years. That was all I knew. And the family told me that. - They said, used the word traffic. - No, they said that she was working. - Well, only one. Yeah. - In, yeah. - But you at least knew that wasn't true at the time. You knew, okay. But you didn't know the details. - I didn't know how bad she had it. And I felt kind of stupid too when she started telling me and I was like, how the fuck did I not? - Yeah, but how would you, I mean, that's a really. - I was also so paranoid to meet with her because this was like literally the day after they tried to run us off the highway. So I was like, fuck, I'm gonna get set up. This is gonna be some bullshit, especially if she's still with the trafficking guy. Like we're gonna get fucking killed. - It wasn't in a public place at all. - I brought her to a hotel room. To my hotel room, actually. But I had already packed everything in the car so that right after they interviewed we would just get the hell out of there. - No, yeah. Did you, and again, maybe this totally isn't, in your place, but after talking with her for a while, did you ask her if she would be willing at this point to herself, I'd not come clean, but like, confront her family like, hey, this is happening to me. Or this is happening. - I definitely did not ask that. And also she's so. - Beat 'em down. - Right. That's not someone who can, even that won't even cross her mind. She's still with him, in a sense. - That's crazy. - Offered, by the way, to call him during our interview and not say that I'm there and talk about things with him that happened in TJ. Would that have been like, oh my God, crazy for the story and for the people watching? - Yes, but that is so dangerous for her, so I was like, fuck no. - Yeah, good call. Now you talked with another trafficker and two, all right? The second one. Was this guy the same as the first one, very similar or what were the vibes here? - Same vibes. - Same vibes. - Same vibes. - Did he work with the first one? - No, separate. - Separate. - Okay. But here's the thing. One thing that I keep being told over and over again by all these people involved that I talk to are like, there's a difference between being a sex trafficker and a pimp and even though they're considered the same. - Okay. - And I'm like, yeah, 'cause it's the same fucking thing. But they are convinced. No, I'm not a sex trafficker. I'm just a pimp. - Tomato tomato. - I don't understand. - I know. - What is their cognitive logic there? If you're in charge of women who are sleeping with other men and-- - And profiting off of that because they say, well, we're not kidnapping them. This is like a thing. They're like, we're not kidnapping them. If they wanna leave, they can't. - Yeah, okay. So you should've said, all right, if I pick one out and she's okay leaving, I'm off her job. You know, just let her walk out of here. - They won't leave though. They won't, because they are in love with the trafficker. - Yeah. - They won't. - Yeah, it's also like grooming 101. - Oh, textbook. - Textbook. - Mm-hmm. - So it's not even possible to consider them free will employment. - If I went to one of these girls right now who's on the corner and in that situation and said, I'll give you $10,000. If you never come back here and like you start a business and like do something, go to school, I don't know whatever. She'll end up back there or she won't leave in the first place. - That's crazy. - And I actually, I watched a movie about this by I think Sam Baker, the same guy who did like, Anora. - Okay. - And, right? Yeah, and Florida Project. He did this movie. What is it like, white lines and palm trees or something like that? And it's literally what this is happening. And I remember watching that and thinking, okay, fiction, right? But this is super fucked up. And then I go and I do this story and I had this moment of realization, I'm like this is exactly like that movie, but this is real life. And this is exactly how it's happening. - And we got it, Steve. Yeah, from 2022. - Jamie Dack. - Jamie Dack explores the chilling and isolating relationship between a disconnected 17 year old girl and a man twice her age. And he does this to her. Like he literally is like, okay, baby, we need money now and she's so in love with him. She sleeps with the guy, she's so disgusted and scared leaves him and then goes right back with him. - Is it in America? - Yeah. - So it's also. - But it's fiction. But it's, this is literally what's happening. And it's so sad. - Yeah, it happens all the time. - Imagine your family's also profiting off of it. Fuck off. It's like a, you know, we use the example all the time for different contexts of like the Truman show and how all those actors can go, "Hey, Truman, you're not gonna do that, right?" And they just do that. For years and years and years to this, poor guys in the middle of a reality TV show that he doesn't know he's in. That same kind of like horror film, you're gonna do what I did. You do, right? - That's exactly. - That's exactly what exists in all this. And you're seeing live. You're in the middle of it and you're like, "You son of a bitch." You know exactly, even if you don't know like with the parents, exactly what you're doing. You know it's evil. You know she's being used like crazy. Your daughter's probably being run through by a bunch of dangerous people. - Nasty people. - But you got your house reservation or renovation. - That's how much you value your daughter. So how do you expect a woman like that to value herself? - Are there identities on camera or you blurting out their identities? - I made her wear a Bella clava. - Right, the family though. - Oh family, no, no, no, not, 'cause I don't want to identify her. - Yeah, good call. - At the end of the day, oh yeah, there's certain exposure shit I could do, whatever. But I always have to think about the source and her safety and livelihood. - Course. - And her life. So yeah, no, there's so much that has to be blurred, cut out, can't even include in the episode because I don't want any of it to come back to her. - Yeah, and you were saying obviously, there's certain things that aren't your place like your job is to capture the story. And you know, these are the people who were in it. But she obviously trusted you to a strong extent to even come do this. And then you talked with her for a while, it got personal. You're seeing all the different dichotomies here. You know, after that, I'm not saying your blunt whether like, "Hey, I'll help you out or anything like that." But have you had any conversations with her that are like, I don't wanna say like manipulating it all, but like in a good way, like trying to mentally guide her to see like, "Hey, you know, maybe this isn't, maybe there's a better life there." - No, that's not my place. If she asked me for help, I would see if I could give it. But I would never offer help 'cause it can just make things worse. I learned that the harder way, you can't, even no matter how bad you feel, you can't try to change someone's situation unless they're actively seeking it out. - When did you learn that? - Like a few years ago. - You don't wanna talk about it? - No, you can't, especially people in such like harrowing situations like this. And it's so beyond me. And it's not my job. If she called me and said, "Can you help me with some, and I can, maybe I will." Or put, point her in the right direction to get what she needs. But I would never, on my own free will, call her and say, "Hey, let me help you out with this." Because a lot of the times you can just make shit worse. You're never supposed to give help unless people ask. - Unless people ask. - Yeah, and I wouldn't be saying, be that blonde about it. But, But you know what I mean, where you're like trying to guide the puck towards one end of the ice and you're saying, don't do that at all. Also it's like, yeah, no, she's so in her head. There's no way. All right, sorry. We lost audio for one second, but we're just closing the loop on this girl in their situation. Are you working on some other stories that aren't heard that are related to this subject matter right now as well? No, I need a break. You know how it is? Yeah. I've never been to the same place once and these are the ones that I said I was never going to do. But now I can't not. Right. But I need a break from this. So now we focus back on Cretel girl 101 and hopefully unpack the new or preexisting power dynamic within C.G. And what that looks like and what it means for Mexico. And also Mexican elections will be coming up soon. But before we get there though, are you allowed to talk about on air that thing you and I were talking about you potentially doing for a story that currently hasn't happened yet? Oh, no, don't bring that up. Don't bring that up. Okay. And that's like we're on air right now. So don't say anything. No, I know. But that's also like the, yeah, that's that's a big one. And I, it's been very hard to get. So I don't want to bring it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was supposed to have that before coming to you. That's why you were coming. I'm so sorry. No, it's all good. This is how it goes. Yeah. Fuck. No, it's all good. I hope that works out. I'm so frustrated about that because it will be the fucking story. Again, just be careful because every time you're doing these words, I was literally going to say like that's the one story where it's like a 50/50. I come out of their alive, which aren't terrible odds because that's like 50% I actually live. You know, maybe don't do that one. No, I have to. If it's, you don't have to do anything. It's incredible. That would be incredible. But so here's my devil's advocate to that. I know for a fact that there are things in the past that you made the correct decision to not go all the way and try to go farther on stories where it was clear, very clear that it will definitely be the last story you ever do at the very least. And if that is coming up, if with what you're thinking of is coming up against that kind of fence, you know, you already do a lot of great work. There's other ones out there. You know what I mean? Like I'm dead serious. Like, you should, if something, I know you're joking over it. But maybe I like miss out on certain stuff by saying no, you know? And I think you're always going to wonder that. And I think that this story is, it's so valuable to all the reporting that I do. Like it's, it's invaluable information. And it's worth it. Yeah. It's a good one. Have you bumped into stories where you're seeing outside of like, oh, my own stuff that's public and obvious where you get the alarm bells going up that there's strong intelligence involvement, whether it's from the US side or other places. Oh, totally. All the time. Yeah. And it's really obvious. Yeah. What makes it obvious? Well, how long ago did it happen that there, the two CIA officers died in a car crash in two months? Yeah, that wasn't long ago. That was a few months ago. Yeah. That was not that long ago. And then the Mexican president saying she didn't know about that, but she doesn't technically have to know about that. But you would think that like if there are two known CIA operatives, dismantling a meth lab in Chihuahua on Mexican soil, that that probably means that the US is in your country. Probably. I feel like they've been here a while. Not to mention they were dressed in Mexican copy uniforms. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. And then you know what my problem with this is. So this has been like the one thing that everybody asks me, especially over the course of the last two years of like is American intelligence in Mexico? Are there boots on the ground in Mexico? And I was always like, yeah. And then people were like, this girl is trying to perpetuate an invasion in Mexico. That's what she wants. I don't want that. I'm just telling you how it is. Like it's right in front of our faces. Even if you're denying it, you're just fucking stupid. They declared them terrorist organizations. Whenizations. What typically happens after the United States does that? And what so I've asked this pretty much everyone to come in here. I think including you four months ago when you were last here, but like, you know, in your view, what has completely stopped those types of operations like clear boots on the ground boom, boom, kill, kill, kill from happening since they declared this what over a year ago now, something like that. They don't need to do that if they're turning these guys against each other. They're the cartels are doing that for them. They don't need to do these fucking like carpet bombing shit. It just gives them optionality. They literally, what do you do? You turn the cartel against each other like with what they did with Sinaloa by capturing Mayo. I was just a I saw it. They're killing each other. It's a fucking blood bath. So why would the US need to go in and do it and then be considered the enemy when they can do it so low key and with their side up shit that they're getting what they want. Anyways, I'm not. I want to be clear before I say this because you got to be clear about this stuff now. Apparently with the internet, I'm not advocating for any of fucking cartel guys down there are saying, oh my God. I know we always get this fucking comment. We always get this comment. She fucks everyone in the cartel. That's why they give her access. I mean, I wasn't going there, but yeah, that's ridiculous too. I'm just saying like, it's similar vibes to me. I've cited this with other examples of other stuff before like you had Scott percent, the Treasury Secretary of the United States going to Davos in January and bragging to people laughing about the fact that he was about to put new sanctions on Iran that was going to bring their currency effectively to zero, which he then knew would cause people to go into the street to say nothing of the people on the ground are probably going to help make that happen as well, which would force a regime, which is bad people that run the regime to then be bad and kill the people there and result in hopefully some revolution that didn't end up happening by the way. And he was laughing about this. And it's like, no one's arguing that the regime's good. But like, if I walk outside and I see a fentanyl attic fucking cracking out and I go inside and I go get a semi-automatic weapon for him and load it and then hand it to him and he goes and kills people. Well, I think I get tried in a court of law for accessory to murder. So to me, the Iran thing is similar to that in a way. Oh, totally. And then when I look at this, there's innocent people that get caught in the crossfire of this stuff too. So when you just hit that button, it's like, yeah, you know, I'll just come for this gun, make sure those motherfuckers, it'll all be down there. They'll just fight each other. It's like, there's got to be, I know the world's complicated. And they know that and they know it's going to spill over the border. And that was crazy. I was always getting that question. And I don't know. I think you might have brought it up, but I think you're too smart to ask me a stupid question like that. I got that on a few podcasts. Well, is this going to spill over into the border? Thank you. Why would that happen? Do you really think cartels are going to declare war on the United States of America? Do you know how many times people ask me that? They're business guys and they're not dummies either. They want money. Yeah. Point blank. Yeah, you got to know that. A good and a service where there is high demand and very high profit. You imagine if the cartels like, you know, blew up a fucking building in the United States, they'd be gone. Sorry, the way you said that is. A couple days later. That would be literal suicide. Right. If they, I agree. And I must say, if that ever happens, just know it was not the cartel. I don't even think that would be a good false flag candidate. I think there's a million I'd do before that if I were the US government. Oh, yeah, totally. I think you're right about that though. No, they would never do that. They even cleaned it up. And after the Almento thing was like 24 hours, they're like, okay, we're good. Thank you. Sorry. We'll just file out everyone good. All right. Cool. It's like cars are still burning and shit. They're business. They're crazy. They're bad guys, but you're absolutely right. They're business. Yeah. And I do think that's a big attention is bad for business. Negative attention is bad for their business. Yep. And that's why like when people are always like cat, why haven't they killed you yet? Because it's just bad for business. It is way, I hate to put it like this. It's just true, just optically speaking, looking at it from like the US seat. It would be way worse if they killed an English speaking journalist who operates in any capacity ever in the United States or Canada or something versus, and it's still bad optics, but killing one of their own. Oh, I know. You know? But also here's like when it's not even about the optics when they kill one of their own, it's about the impunity because nothing ends up happening after that. And that story dies just with her, which is so tragic. Oh, it's so fun. But that's how it operates in Mexico. Yeah. And you see this time and time again. And I'm always concerned for my friends who are journalists in Mexico, like especially the ones in Culecan. They're in the fucking trenches and they're incredible and incredibly talented people. Do you, are there any you know? I feel like I know the answer to this question. Are there any of them down there that you know well who speak English as well, who would ever be willing to come in here? Or would that be way too dangerous for them to do? - The English is the problem. - Really? - Yeah. - You think some of them would do it on camera in the United States? - Wait, who are you asking about? - Like the journalists? - One of the journalists down there. Yeah. - Oh yeah, they would definitely do it. - They really? - Totally. Oh, these people have big balls. - Clearly. - Oh, they are. They do not. I think the English would be the problem. - Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm. - Still good on them. I mean, that's, you know, if ever one of them-- - And they're seeing the worst shit. - Yeah. - Like I was there for two weeks and I saw so many dead people and I was like, okay, it's time to get the hell I would have here. And there's just a lot of, when you're in a place like that, there's just weird stuff going on at all times. You can feel it. You see certain, some things weird, some things off always. And also keep in mind like, yeah, some of these people are getting gunned down. Other of them, others are getting like mutilated and you're arriving to the scene with like the report and it's like a head in a pizza box with like the legs hanging from some shit. - For all of our problems that we have here and we have plenty of self-inflicted problems and issues that we fight over and shit like that in America, I'm not saying like, we're in the greatest moment right now. But just some of the basic like social contract exceptances that at least exist in this country across 99.9% of the population. I literally wake up some days partially 'cause I do this job and hear about all kinds of things all over the world where I'm like grateful literally that we just have at least that because you're talking about places right now where it is an accepted norm. - Yes. - That they have to live with things that are literally animalistic and there's fuck all they do about it. - Yes. And that's why it's very hard for me every time I come to United States because I am an absolute cunt at dinner table conversations. I can't, I can't do it. What you're gonna tell me about your fucking allergies. Shot up. First of all, allergies don't exist. It's mental. Second of all, I literally just saw like 30. - I used to say the same thing. - And now what you're allergic to milk that doesn't happen. - I got really sick for four years. - Oh, you told me about this. - I used to say the same thing to people when they would walk in and be like, "Oh, the pollen sucks out." - And they're just, "Shut up, shut the fuck up." But yeah, when I got to bad, whoa. - When you're seeing this day and day out, right? It obviously changes your brain chemistry and we talked about this and this is why there is this incentive for young people to join the cartels and not feel any sort of way about it because they've absolutely dismantled any sense of humanity, right? And so two stories about this, when I was just in, 'cause I was doing the story, right? - The trafficking one. - But I decided to do like a little ride along with another really talented reporter there who also covers the Breaking Crime News. And so we go to a homicide and it's this guy, like a homeless guy murdered 15 bullet holes, what the hell? And this was the first, the first body that I've seen killed like that where it was someone who you just know was not involved at all. And that felt so fucking different. 'Cause I never wanted to be this bitch, but I'm becoming that bitch. In Kuljakhan, everyone that you're seeing murdered is like involved in some way. And like even when their families are like at the scene crying and grieving, they're almost, they have this sense of like, fuck it, finally did happen. You know? - Oh, Jesus. - Because there's like this awareness of some level of involvement. - It's like you're living with a guillotine over your head. - But in TJ, it was different because this guy was not involved at all and it was the first time I saw something like that and it felt terrible. And then a bunch of other like homeless guys came up to me in the reporter that I was with and they're like, is that Sergio? And I'm like, I don't know, do you know him? And then the guy looks and I'm like, hey, look, then I zoom in on my camera so he can see and he goes, fuck, it's Sergio. And I'm like, what happened? He goes, I don't fucking know, but this is not, he wasn't like that. Just like a normal guy. Come to find out that it was a distraction for something because in that same moment, like 11 or 12 people were detained at airport with kilos and there was like another, I don't remember exactly what it was, there was like another operation. So obviously all the law enforcement attends to this homicide where it was like just sprayed with bullets. This poor guy, like an older man, he doesn't need to be shot 15 times. Also, probably done by a new recruit who they are trying to dismantle his humanity and any sense of feeling by telling him, go and fucking kill this guy. And he's also probably a bit nervous. He's probably on drugs. So he just empties the fucking clip. - That's another thing and you talk about this a lot, but like, I never understood why the cartels sanctioned so many, I don't want to say sanctioned, but like are okay with so many of their rank and file like being on drugs. Like rule number one, don't get high on drugs. - For the cicareos, they need them to be on drugs 'cause they're not thinking about any consequences, they're amped up. You get a guy on meth, he'll go and kill whoever you need and he'll make sure he's dead because he's just trigger happy. And a lot of those guys will do it for cheaper if they're getting the dope. Like if they're supplying their drugs, you can pay me less because at least I'm getting my high for this job. But there was so much murder that, and I was exhausted. I've been like on one. It's just been assignment after assignment. And I went to take a nap and I knew that I was gonna get my period and when I took a nap, I had a dream that I was in an Okzo, which is a Mexican corner store because I was craving cookies with ice cream. So I'm dreaming that I'm getting cookies with ice cream, but they start shooting up the Okzo in my dream. And so I dropped to the floor and continued to eat my ice cream. I have these nightmares all the time. It's terrible where they're like, I'm getting shot at, but I keep surviving every bullet. And then I only woke up from the dream, not because I was scared, but because the cookie in the dream tasted so good, I was drooling in the drool, woke up. So imagine, and I don't live in Kolega and I don't live in Teague. Like I'm not, Mexico City is urban normal, normalcy to an extent. - Right. - But these people are living with this day and day out. - You can never turn it off. And then I have law enforcement telling me that we're just here to attend. We're not here to prevent, we're not here to stop this war. So all of the young people witnessing this are just gonna be, like you said, the next guys in charge. - I've done probably 25 podcasts at this point on cartels and stuff. Like we've done so many across a lot of people. This is your fifth time in here. And you know, they had called a rones of the world and people on this side of the border who are fighting against it and things like that. And people are going across the border to do that. And like the one kind of like cynically depressing thing is that it really is just a dark flat circle. Like the whack-a-mole. One guy gets gone. The next three mushrooms sprout up. And you know, you'd like to think there's a light, even if it's far off at the end of a tunnel somewhere. But this one just feels like, you know, I'm gonna be 75 years old talking about whoever's in charge and whatever. - It's never gonna end. - But does it go the way of like the Italian-American mafia still operates with some power here, right? But they're not what they were when they built that shit. That's Skyline right there. They're not that. They're a tenth of that today. And it's like devil, you know, devil's less powerful. Okay, cool. Do you see a scenario where we could be sitting here 20, 30 years from now and we're thinking that way about the cartels? - I think that there's definitely not in 20 or 30 years. But also I just genuinely think that there's so much money circulating and so many industries that are run by them that I don't think it will get to that. And I think too many people profit off of it. And they just have too much power. - They have too many illegitimate industries too. - That's the, yeah. - Yeah, what's the, what's the deal? You said the like the CJ, NG. - The crude oil. - Yeah. - crude oil is operating businesses as usual. - Oh, so many American refineries are buying stolen crude oil from Mexico through the cartels. - I mean, are you aware of any and active investigations into that on our side of the border for the people doing it? - Yeah, yeah, there's actually the gentsons or whatever from Utah, father and son. - Yeah. But that one's been happening. - That one, yeah, that's like a year now. - If it's so rampant. - And then they just got a massive tanker. and at the San Diego port filled with stolen oil. - And a US buyer. - Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm. - Are they prosecuting them? - That one, I don't know. - I mean, you gotta know who you're fucking buying. - You should be doing it at all, it's illegal, but like. - No, they do know. - Yeah. - They're buying it for like 50% of the price. - That's crazy. And again, like, are the whole drug market in America is why the cartels even exist in the first place. Like the marketability and us buying it here. - Mm-hmm. And so many people involved in high levels in Mexican government are directly profiting off of that stolen crude oil. They're like fully involved in that. More than drugs even. - Do we have any idea how big of a business that this dollar was? - Oh. - I did have this number in my head and I don't have it in my head. - We Google it, deep. What's the estimated dollar value on illegal cartel-related crude oil per year? - I think it's like 70 million. I don't know. - So it's so-- - Oh, 12 billion. - 12 billion to 21 billion annually. The stolen oil and illicit fuel business in Mexico, this vast underground economy makes up an estimated 16 to 27% of all fuel consumed in the country. - So that's obviously including the inter-state, inter-country trafficking of it as well. But that's wild. Direct theft alone accounts for nearly 1.2 to 1.5 billion dollars in losses to Pemex each year. - Yeah, because fuel is monopolized. - Yeah, in Mexico, it's just Pemex. There's nothing else. It's federal. - That's crazy. - What's been happening with Ryan Wedding? I haven't heard shit about that. - So his jeweler, they're trying, this guy who bought his jewelry, they're trying to extradite him to the US. - The guy who bought his jewelry? - Hold on, wait, let me get this right because I actually have not had time to go in that night. I was just wanting to report on the frame. - For everyone out there, it's a refresher. While Kat's looking at up Ryan Wedding, prominent international drug trafficker working with the cartels used to be an Olympic snowboarder, right or skier? - Snowboarder. - Snowboarder for the Canadian national team ended up down in Mexico, became, I guess he thought he was Pablo Escobar and that was in Colombia and was wanting for a long time and then I was, he surrendered himself. - He did. - He surrendered himself to authorities and he was extradited to the US. - Right and that was what? Like eight months ago? - No, those are a few months ago. - January. - Yeah, yeah, so six, seven months ago, something like that. All right, so Ryan Wedding, link jeweler who bought $13 million Mercedes, a step closer to US extradition, extradition hearing set it set for alleged money laundering as co-accused, fight moves to face US charges. All right, let's go down. A Toronto area jeweler accused of acting as the quote thirding command, unquote, Informer Olympic snowboarder, Ryan Wedding's alleged cocaine empire could be sent to California by the end of the year to stand trial. Roland Sokolowski, who went by the aliases, sushi and apple pie, was ordered, I feel like you can do better than that. Was ordered Wednesday to appear for the extradition hearing and Ontario's appear court on December 3rd, US prosecutors alleged Sokolowski served as a de facto bank for wedding by moving hundreds of millions in drug money and procuring the long time fugitive luxury goods, including an ultra rare $13 million US Mercedes CLK GTR roadster, the 38 year old former professional poker player, appeared Wednesday before a provincial judge by video link from Maplehurst jail in Ontario, where he's been detained since his arrest last November, according to court documents, the Lithuanian born Sokolowski is accused of using cryptocurrency platforms and his Toronto area business, Diamond Sewer, the Launder proceeds for weddings transnational criminal enterprise. And so this is the one thing that always stands at about wedding is he had so many financial connections transnational it linked all the way back to Canada to the US to Mexico to Columbia. And I think that's why he was able to grow his so-called empire so like expansively because he had all these people involved and then he had his Canada based lawyer who was telling him who to take hits out on and then he had this human trafficker in Columbia who was taking out the hits for him. He was running it like no problem. Super violent guy also great father apparently. Great father. Good for him. Love you guys kids. Like I said, I have heard that a lot. And I wanted to bring that up. He's like the perfect example of this. Yeah. It's a separate part of their brain switch. It's like in primal fear. There's Aaron and there's Roy. You ever seen that movie? Primal fear yes. Here's the thing. I think that because Ryan Wedding was linked to the Chepitos and your government for some reason continues to make deals with them. Yeah, they like we like them apparently. Have you noticed that? Yeah. It's almost like we've worked with them for a long time. I think like looking at you CIA. And I think that that'll really help him because that's the organization that he was working with. But the US, the one thing the US has been doing lately has continuously been making it very clear that they really want the two remaining sons that are free of El Chapo, Jesus Alfredo and Iban Archo, and for some reason like every US agency keeps tweeting about it on repeat that they want Iban. Don't forget there's $5 million her Iban. By the way, nobody gets that money. And so we'll see what happens. But I think that those two will probably go down together. And if that is the case, that in a way is the end of the Cinaloa cartel as we once knew it. The end because it's a fracture for him and brand new cancers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why as we knew it. Right. Right. Right. But there will be. Yeah. I, again, I almost wonder if that'll end up just being worse than, you know, because you Brent now it branches off into. Oh, it's just going to be a shit show for a bit. Right. Right. Now you and I talked last time you had just gotten back from Ukraine at the time and you were doing this report on these quote unquote cartel mercenaries effectively that were fighting on the front lines in Ukraine and you were able to get inside there and see what's going on. You just put out the videos though. Yes. It looks really good. Thanks. And there's a report that you uncovered that we didn't talk about where. What was it? The French authorities and so Mexico and France alerted Ukraine. But foreign fighters were being recruited by the cartels mostly purely because they were learning FPV drone tactics in Ukraine. And right now Ukraine is like the world's largest drone war front. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's a playground for drones. It is. So cartels had been upping their drone capacity for a while now and there was even a drone attack on the attorney general's office into one a few months ago. And they have made it very clear that they have high level drone capacity drone blockers, jammers, you name it to the extent of the Mexican army. And so they obviously need to train these guys up. So one guy who was a former special forces, no, yeah, former special forces member from Mexico was caught operating in Ukraine to learn FPV drone tactics with fake identification. I think El Salvador based or something like that. He got there. He had really good skills. His alias was Aguila Siete, Eagle 7. And that's a good alias. That's a good alias. I must say. Eagle 7 fire as fuck. Yeah, it is. Like apple pie. That one. That was horrible. Yeah. But Eagle 7. Yeah. Anyways, I miss so hard in arrow. I like that. It's such a, he was fun. Do you know why he's how do they know? It's how do they know it's because he. It was known to be so violent killed so many people that he would make the mountains in Michoacán, Floresh because so many dead bodies. Oh, you did tell me that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm taking him to Sanloa next time. Okay. So basically I went over there because I wanted to see, first of all, how these guys are trading up on drones. What are the checks and balances in place to ensure that foreign fighters are not actually going to work for the cartels? But the problem that I realized is that Ukraine needs men. And so they're really good. taking anyone. And sure, they're doing their security checks. But it's not to the extent of really being able to verify if, first of all, the guys coming in from mostly Columbia are already have some agenda and connections with the cartel or two, if they are a risk of being recruited by the cartel. There's one sort of popular guy right now who's fighting along the front lines in Michokan or in Sinaloa. I don't remember now, but he's a Colombian citizen, fought as a foreign fighter in Ukraine and is now working with CG and G and has all three flags on his like the patches. He's very proud of it. Yes. You've seen it? No, I'm just happy he's proud of that. Yeah, a little Colombian guy. Yeah, collecting is geopolitical tour guide literally. And so they're really amping this up and it's very simple to access this training in a way. It's also important to keep in mind that like flying and using a drone to kill is a different level of killing because it's literally like playing a video game and the camera turns off right before you know the person explodes. That's right. So you're not feeling like you're killing someone. It's like playing GTA or something. First of all, so it's a mental thing. Second of all, because of Ukraine's active battlefield, it's literally the perfect training ground. It is the only place really anyone can go for six months and get trained up on this. Not to mention, it's quite simple. Some of these guys are learning how to fly FPV drones with bombs attached in like under 40 hours. That they can get good at it that fast. Yes. Especially young people, especially if you're young and you grew up playing video games. So it's very problematic and I've been seeing a lot of drone capacity in Mexico on the criminal side, not them particularly using it, but showing that if it comes to that, they're ready. And typically they're targeting not even rival curtails with drones. I mean, some of them, but a lot of it, it's ambush against law enforcement and army. That's promising. Yeah, that sounds horrible. Whoa, I didn't even really. Yeah. That's where I wonder if there will be some who's got a bigger dick drone, terrorist threat war stuff taken off the table. It's one thing to put a bunch of special forces guys on the ground and go fucking in Bay of Mexico and obviously they haven't done that. And that's probably got a lot of crazy downstream effects, but they start fucking around with some drones and shit. And now we have the capacity to be like, yeah, you're not going to do that. But and they they they're not just using some rinky dinky kamikaze drones. Yeah, that's true. And they have multiple propellers. They're loaded with the bombs. The missile is ready to draw the bombs ready to drop from the. This is where I'm willing to say though, I'll bet Darpa's got a bigger boat. What? I'll bet DARPA's got a bigger boat. Oh, yeah. It's not not to obviously that's some serious shit right there. I'm not saying it's not, but that could get interesting if they start doing that. But for the cartels using their drones to fight against Mexican authorities, very effective. Sure. Until maybe the United States steps in on that issue. For now, it sounds like you're perpetuating. No, I'm not. I'm looking at this strictly like black and white, like what could the strategy do you think the US would step in on that if it's just a matter of cartels attacking their own law enforcement in their country? If people are getting killed that are selfishly useful to the United States goals and efforts. Yeah. Yeah. And then if they now have an incentive to say to shine bomb, hey, we can help out with that. And shine bombs like no boots on the ground, right? I'm just playing. I'm not giving an opinion on this. I'm just playing out the quote unquote war game. They'd be playing here. I could see a scenario where that would happen. However, even though cluddish and bomb continuously denies like that, no boots on the ground in Mexican sovereignty and bubble bomb. And she's being strong armed or like kept in the dark. The person that I believe who will probably is a top contender for Mexican presidency in the next election has a great relationship with the United States loves to. Who's that? Oh, I got to see how how to fudge the secretary of security. Yeah. It's quite obvious. And there's like the whole side up thing going on right now where they're selling like all this merch in Mexico of how to fudge with his shirt off and like a blanket of a shirt like what the fuck? They're putting them on calendars and shit too. I wonder who's behind that. Exactly. Yeah. Because all of a sudden he was just like the hottest guy in Mexico. Right. Some weird shit. Some weird shit. Have you gotten backlash at all for your report in Ukraine? Yes. Are you allowed to say from who? People that disagree with the reporting or think it's not happening that there actually isn't anyone over there who has these intentions and you got video of it. Literally. There's like an active case about it. SBU Ukrainian intelligence has opened up an investigation. It's been going on for a year. That's crazy. What are the stories you're working on right now? Well, that main secret one that I told you but besides that one, I can't think of anything else. That's the one your zone did. I hope you get it. Me too. It's been fucking brutal. But just don't worry about your life. And I've been doing all this other reporting in the meantime waiting for this to hit. And it's just like very frustrating because I know that that's a very important story. Yeah. Have you looked into the cartel like setting up operations in Africa? Oh my God. Yes. How did we talk about this? I've looked at this a little bit. Have you seen all the Mexican guys that are getting arrested in like Nigeria and South Africa? Yeah. And they have massive labs over there. What kind of labs? Math. All maths. How old is that? And fentanyl. There is some fentanyl. That's nice. How old is that? I don't know. And I was I've been looking into this. It's certainly on my radar because I think it's really interesting. And what I do know is that there are like intelligence reports and law enforcement like trying to track this and crack down on it because I was looking into it. And it seems like a lot of what's happening is there are known operatives of the cartel that are flying over to Africa to like run these labs. But they're taking these very fragmented flight paths because they know that they are being tracked by law enforcement. And I don't know how long it's been going on. It's a fairly new situation. But I know that it's it's very effective for them right now. But there have been some crackdowns. There's been a few arrests. Why do you think they're targeting Nigerian South Africa in particularly? Because of the ports. It's easy to move the precursors in and out of there. A lot of these labs in South Africa and Nigeria are very isolated. And so they can really operate completely under the radar. Laws aren't as strict money talks. And it's a great location if you're sending drugs into Europe and the rest. Great spot for business. They're basically everywhere except an article at this point. Maybe they're an an article and not in Poland. Yeah. Don't bring my country into it. They're not in Poland at all. There's nothing bad in Poland. Not one time. There's no crime. No crime. It is a perfect country. But there's no cartel operations there. Is it the fuck knows? You should find that out. No, I don't because Poland is my safe. That's all right. Listen, we all have our vices. If you will, maybe they got a cartel vice there. I don't know. I don't respect. I don't know. I don't know. But one other thing you've been working on these stories as well about the cartels in Canada for a long time. And you were putting out some documentaries talking about them targeting like native land. Yeah. Up there. Why are they doing that? Because native land in Canada has and I think in the US too has their own police force. So it's not RCMP like national police. And it's yeah, it's the same thing, right? And typically a lot of that the like native land police forces are understaffed. And a lot of these reserves are on like are literally right on the US Canada border. And so they can move product across and freely cross the border. No problem. So it's great for trafficking. And it's a lot great for trafficking. Nice setup. Yeah. And they're hiring a lot of native people like on the land to actually walk the product across. It's it's purely by a drive. Creating jobs. Yeah. Okay. Look, they're trying to help the economy. and stimulate some things, I can understand that. - And a lot of what's moving over there are fentanyl pels. - Nice. - Yeah. - And that's now dragging out into Canada as well. - Oh, well, it's been like that for a while. Yeah, it's a lot of it Montana border. It's actually pretty much across the entire border. - Yeah. - And it's-- - We don't think about that border that much. - No, and it's a hard border to enforce. It's a massive border and mostly unprotected. When I went and did some reporting in Montana about how drugs are being crossed by land through a reserve actually, I interviewed a cop who also works closely with DEA to try and mitigate this problem. And he said that they will be notified of like, oh, someone suspicious is crossing through like it's not a official border crossing, obviously. But by the time they get to where that person was, they're long gone. - It's just, I mean, it's needle and haystack with too much of this stuff. It shouldn't be, but it is on both borders and the complicity, you know. - What a mess. - Well, keep reporting on it. You're doing a great job just like seriously. I mean that, like when it gets to be really red hot for you, especially if it's something you can't do with security and stuff like that, there will be other stories. You're already doing great work. So. - I appreciate it. - You know. - Just keep your head up. - Of course. - Of course. - Of course. And we'll do it again, as always. All right, so everyone go check out, maybe, as if you didn't ask every time to come on. Anyway, everyone go check out. - That's also untrue. - That is absolutely true. - That is not true. - I got the text. - That is literally not. - But that said, I'm still gonna be a good person. Everyone go check out Kat's work. You have Borderland dispatches, where all the documentaries are gone. We got your IG down there, your ex down there, where you're live tweeting. Well, I shouldn't say like that. - And I have my own YouTube channel now. - And you got your own YouTube channel as well. It's gonna have a lot of content. - We're gonna see a lot of behind the scenes footage of reporting being the field. - So if you wanna watch Kat, apparently almost get shot, that'll probably be on that channel as well. So you can go check that out. But in all seriousness, great having you as always. - Thanks. And he invites me every time. - That's not true. You hit me up and said, I have this meeting I should come on. - You called me four times before coming. - I did not call you four times at all. - I have the receipts. Okay, you're calling the turn-off-saleir. - I said I want proof of what you're calling me. - Yeah, fuck my credibility, right? - That's all I said. - Yeah, fuck it. - All right, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me, peace. - Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you.