#44 Executive Producer on Exploring Indigenous Elders and Pioneering Teleshopping

our thoughts create our reality. Our thoughts literally do program what is gonna happen in and around us in the universe. (crickets chirping) That was the business that then got listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange back in 2007. And that was when we employed 2,200 people globally. (crickets chirping) My entire belief system changed. That was the day I got rid of my television. I never read a newspaper again. I did not want that low vibration, that face stuff coming in 'cause we absorb all of it. Whether you think you do or whether you think you don't. (crickets chirping) Hey guys, welcome to another episode. My guess today is Tia. One day our Tia is an executive producer of the Dockhue movie with the name Time of the Sixth Sun, which is filmed in 16 countries. Over 11 years, reaching over 85 indigenous elders, wisdom keepers and visionary thought leaders from around the world, sharing their knowledge and teachings on the evolution of consciousness and the great awakening taking place in our planet. Tia has a very interesting entrepreneurial story going from actor to presenter to TV entrepreneur. With more than 2,000 employees being listed on Singapore Stock Exchange, to spending six years on creating this Dockhue series. We're gonna talk about whole bunch of things. So please enjoy my conversation with Tia. One door, welcome to the show. In the questionnaire that you filled in, you alluded to the fact that you failed at school completely. - Yeah, I struggled. - I really struggled. - Why did you struggle? What was it about? - I think conforming. (laughing) I think that was the biggest problem. I went through a great education system, which seemed to work for lots and lots of people, but it didn't really work for me. I've always had this thing that, if I'm not interested in something, I'll find it very difficult to be motivated. Yet if I am interested in it, I really will just go to the depths of understanding it. And I think the school system is amazing for some kids, but for the sort of more entrepreneurial minded or spirited kids that don't necessarily want to read right and follow orders, it can be quite a tough challenge to remain stuck in that seat for 40 minutes at a time when you're being bombarded with information that you're finding not at all interesting. The greatest thing that came away from school was friendship. I met some amazing people who I'm still friends with now. And yeah, so I've got a 14 year old son who is a mini version of me, and I can see that he really finds it difficult to be in class for sure he's not interested. And he just wants to leave school and set up his own business. - That's true, yeah. For some people, just very hard. Same for me, yeah, hey, that's cool. And some people are like, I'm gonna, if I don't know what to do, I'm gonna go back to university, I'll be like, fuck that. This is the last thing I would do. I have nothing to do. The last place I'm gonna go is study. Sit and just like listen. So it's very, very different. Then he became an actor. Is that a progression? After school, you decided to go to acting or was someone between? - So when I was seven years old, I was in a school nativity play. And I think that was the first time I acted. And I played a washerwoman. And I think my first ever line was a woman's work is never done. That was my washerwoman line. And from that, I ended up just doing a lot more acting through the years, through school, mostly. And then I got spotted in a school play. And then I got asked to go an audition for a role in a much larger production of Oliver Twist, where I played the artful Dodger. And just absolutely loved it. And it was the first time I'd acted with adults, as part of the child cast. And that was brilliant fun. And it just sort of grew from there. And then I ended up doing lots more different things. And I ended up doing sort of amateur productions out of school. And I loved it. And I got to 18. I did my GCSEs, which I did all right in considering. Then I did my A levels that I absolutely flunked out, because I chose three subjects. I chose business studies. So I was interested in business. I chose theatre studies, because I was interested in acting. And I chose French, because I had a fantastic French teacher from the age of seven. I didn't quite understand at the age of 16 that they weren't going to be the most fascinating subjects to do, because the business studies was very much just all practical. And just-- sorry, it was all theoretical. There was no practical element to it. The theatre studies were just studying texts and having to write up reviews on those texts, which I didn't find that in Thrawling. And French became a lot harder at a sort of 16 to 18 level. And I could speak very well, but the written aspects of it was a bit tricky for me. So I flunked those A levels. And my dad was really cool about it, actually, because he could see from his entrepreneurial background that school was something you did, but not necessarily thrived at. And I wanted to go to drama school. That was my aim. So when I left school at 18, and he said to me, he said, I will support your endeavor to go to drama school. He said, but you need to get some life experience first. He said, so come and work for me for a year. He said, come and work in my business. And that's what I did. So I went and worked for him for a year. And ended up working there for six years. And then I went to drama school. So just smart idea. Don't say no. Just say, why don't you do that? And then you do this. And once I started working and earning, I actually had the best university life, because I didn't go. And I would go every weekend to all the towns all over the United Kingdom where my friends were at university. And I had some money to buy beers. So we had a great time. Yes, it's a beautiful idea. For parents who have resistance of kids resisting, maybe it's worth to say, if you want to have your goal, do a little bit for me. And then you'll get it. So for you, you want to go to drama school, spend a year working, and you spend six years. Yeah. And I had lunch with a lady called Carly, who lives here in Bali. And she runs Bali Buddy's website. And she was saying that she gave me this idea, which I never even thought of as, as a parent, you're going to spend money to send your child to university anyways. It's going to cost you a lot of money to send them there for three years, for the tuition fees, for the books, for the accommodation, for the cost of living. She went, if your child isn't academically gifted, and you don't think that's actually going to serve them, why not take that money you are going to spend anyway and pay one of your business friends to employ your child and to give them a three year, almost entrepreneurship? And I was like, what a genius idea. Because they're going to walk away from that knowing what they like, what they're good at, what they're not good at. They're not going to have the huge amount of debt. And you're going to get life experience and work experience rather than the old conditioning model of, you know, you go to school, then you go to university, then you get a job. Because the world is changing at such a phenomenal rate that I'm not sure whether that, you know, the old paradigm of the education system is actually going to last for that much longer. Probably not. Probably when at least I have young kids, two and four, I think when they'll grow up, I don't think there may be people talk about like, oh, I need to go to university, that's not something that's going to be talked about. Right now, when thinking, will they go to school, like traditional school? Because I think it's important from age maybe seven to 10 when you learn the basic skills to write and read. But I remember my school would learn like chemistry. And I'm like, I don't give a shit about chemistry. Why am I learning the chemistry? And then they don't teach you things like selling, marketing, expressing your emotions, connecting, negotiating, compounding, compounding, like finances. Yeah. How did you find those extra turns? Yeah, exactly. Because that's what you don't learn. It's so interesting. So you went to drama school. Was that that you decided to okay, going to stop the work in this business because I really want to be an actor? Like, how did you decide to still become a director? Yeah, I got to my mid-twenties. And I was like, you know what? I need to follow this passion. And I discovered very early on that. I was good at business. I started off in the production department, making boxes, putting floppy disks back then, and manuals into boxes. And then I worked out that they were spending so much extra money on shipping costs that I needed to be. And there was a much cheaper way of doing it. And I remember I went to my dad and I was like, "Listen, you're spending much, too much on this every month." And he was like, "No, that can't be right." And I showed him and I proved him I was saving him like two and a half thousand pounds a month back then, which is, this is in the, well, what are we talking in the early '90s? So it was, you know, it was a decent whack of cash and he was like, "My goodness, you know, you're absolutely right with this." And that sort of thing. So I moved from that into the technical support department because he had an accounting software business. So I started doing accounting support. I realized soon that that was not my, you know, that wasn't floating my boat. So then they moved me into the sales and marketing department because I had all the experience of working on all the different departments. I was really good at selling the product. And so I loved it. But then I realized actually I was in that danger of, you know, just continuing working because it was nice to have the money coming into the bank account every month, whereas actually my passion was still to get back into the acting world. So I did a one year postgraduate course, even though I wasn't a postgraduate, they let me on. And then that led to lots of different roles than I got an agent and lots of things. Nothing that anybody would know about would actually what I found the most fun was I did a lot of work in what they call theater and education, which is basically where you take acting skills into the school environment. And you use theater to get across messages like speaking, listening, communication, sexual health, drugs, all those sort of things. And you were working with primary school kids through to secondary school kids, you know, teenagers. And if you come into into an atmosphere with that sort of energy and then you run workshops with them, I loved it. And then we moved from that into corporate training. We did a lot of that as well. And then I realized very early on that I needed to earn some money because I met my beloved 22 years ago and I realized that I wasn't going to be able to support her and any potential children that we would have in the future if I was a, you know, a jobbing actor. So I wanted to get into TV because I thought actually, you know, that gives me an opportunity to do the acting. with the presenting and then to earn some money from it. So I managed to get my way into a TV business and my lovely friend Natalie, she got me some work experience as a channel called The Money Channel in London. - Wow. - And it was like a financial channel that had been set up. And I just ended up doing work experience for them. I made myself invaluable. I got in at sort of six o'clock in the morning. I didn't leave till 8 o'clock at night and I wasn't being paid. But because I'd already been working for six years, I had some cash. And so I was there and then I knew that the girl that I'd been shadowing, she was going to go on her holidays. And so I said to the guy that ran the floor. I said, "Can I cover for her while she's away?" He said, "Yeah, but we can't afford to pay you." I said, "I don't want paying." I said, "I'll just come and do it for free. I'm loving this." So then I worked his, so that lady's shift as well. And then at the end of it, I knew that they wanted to hire me because it's actually really hard to find good people. If you run a business, you know, the biggest problem you've got, it's finding good people that actually going to do what they're going to do. And I was one of those because I'd worked in sort of 18 and I knew the value of hard work and putting effort in because what you put in, you get help. And so I went to the same floor manager, I said, "Thank you so much for this opportunity. You've given me, I said, and you've actually opened the door for me now. I've got a job interview next week at Sky News." And he was like, "I could see." He was like, "Oh, no, I don't want to lose this guy." And he said, "Well, I just don't have the head count or the payroll to pay you." I said, "It doesn't matter. I said, "Give me this help. You give me this opportunity." And without you guys, I wouldn't have this opportunity next week. So I just walked away, went back to my desk, 20 minutes later he came over and said, "I'm going to offer you a job." And that was my foot in the door. And there was no Sky News. I just called the black to see what I could get away with it. And it paid off. Beautiful. Yeah. And so that ended up doing producing for them and then ended up one day getting an opportunity to present. And then that was it. That was the foot in the door I needed to become a. to become a presenter. And so you went like all 360 or selling and marketing paid off and you're acting. So now you're selling and acting at the same time on TV. That was it. Yeah. The money channel ran out of money. Yeah. About four months after I got the job, that was my lifelong definition of irony. And then I knew that they were setting up this shopping television network in the UK. And they asked whether I wanted to go and produce. So I went along for the interview and I got a producing job. And I did that for about three months. And then one day one of the TV presenters did turn up. And I said, I could do that. And they were like, well, you've got no experience. I said, I've got plenty of experience. They just just test me out. What's the worst can happen? We sell nothing for an hour. Or the best experience. The best is that it worked. And so I got my opportunity to present live on TV. So I ran out of my mom. I ran out of my dad's. Yeah, I'm going to be live on TV on, you know, 7pm tonight. And they were like, what really? Yeah, I did it. I did it. And I did it. I never produced again. And then the longer story is that 1800 live hours of presenting experience selling things on TV. That's crazy. I want to touch based on one thing that you said. I think it's important for people that everybody needs to tell stories. And I think what is important being a teacher, important being, working with corporations is how well can tell stories. And who would better tell stories on people who are actors, right? And that's why taking those lessons gives you the skill that other people don't have. Some people are really good at selling, but their presenting skills are still not that good. So you can win them because, well, you're a better actor. You're better present information, same with kids. I find that if I say with monotonous voice, anything to my kids, they just don't care. Like it's impossible to raise kids unless you entertain them in a way that they're like, yeah, we want to listen to you because it's cool. Yeah, and teaching through stories. Exactly. We all love to learn through stories. We love to listen to stories. Yeah. 100%. So getting back to that, how did your career of having your own TV channel, with a channel or on the station? Yeah, it was. So that first opportunity I got to present after a year, I got a phone call from a friend of mine who just sold one of the first Web businesses at the late in the late 90s. And he said he'd had an opportunity to set up a shopping TV channel. And he wanted to set up this channel called Toys, Games and Hobbies. And so he said, we understand online. We understand distribution. We understand web. We understand sales. We do not have a clue about how the shopping element, so the TV element of it works. Would you come in and help us? And I was like, yeah, I'd love to. And so we started this business with four of us, four founders, and we had a team of eight. And we had, well, Toys, Games and Hobbies lasted, I think about five weeks. And we realized that there was no market there. And then we had-- That was a hobby. Yeah, nobody buys it. You know what, they do buy it, but not off the TV. I see. And so we were quickly parked that one. And we had six other incarnations of channel. And then one weekend, we went to one of those factory outlet malls in the United Kingdom. And we were like, this is heaving with people. We're like, why don't we set up factory outlet TV? Because the sort of people that are going there to buy bargains, you know, police sunglasses, designer clothes at reduced prices, would probably also be the same demographic that's going to buy things on TV. So that's what we did. So we then just went out, we sent a buyer out to go and find as many products as we could that sort of had a guide price attached them in people's minds. And then we would sell them out of a reduced cost. And that was the channel that started to work. Beautiful. And really started to work. But even then, it was really hard work. Because the cost of running a live TV channel, not just with people, but also the uplinked cost to the satellite. Because back then, it was still satellite TV that you were people were watching. It was a very expensive operation. And one we can, we thought, how about if we were to gamify this? How about if we were to turn shopping TV into a game? So we introduced a reverse price auction or Dutch auction. So for example, if we were selling sunglasses, we'd have five sunglasses available. We would say that the guide price or the price they would usually retail, that would be say, you know, 90 pounds or, you know, $100 or $110 US dollars. And then we would start the game. And we would say there's only five of these available. And then say, for example, we would immediately drop the price from, let's say, use pounds for example, 100 pounds to say 60 pounds. If at that point somebody decided they wanted to buy one, the quantity would drop from five to four on the screen. So you're introducing scarcity. And so that was a great, you know, psychological thing to help people to make a buying decision. And we would then, if we knew that person that ever called us before, would get the presenter, or me, as I was one of the presenters, to say, hey, you know, Anatoli in Ubud, you've just ordered one of these sets of sunglasses. You know, the maximum you're going to pay is 60 pounds. And so suddenly there's this person sitting at home. They're getting connection with somebody on TV, which doesn't usually happen. And they're getting that thing, wow, this is great. So we built this astonishing community of people, of viewers, of our customers. And then the price would go down. And say, for example, nobody else buys. We dropped the price from 60 to 50 or 50 to 40, at which point everybody buys. And then suddenly your quantity has gone from five to zero. There's none left. But the price that finished was 40. Everybody would pay 40. So even though you came into 60, you'd only pay 40. So you're already happy at 60. And now you're even happier at 40. And the moment we introduced that model on TV, we quadrupled turnover. And that was the game-changing time of the business. But how do you make the ends meet? What's the price? Do you buy the sunglasses for 20, then set them for 100? Yeah, well, no, it depended. There was no set margin that we would make on any product. And once we built a big enough audience, we would have hours where we would run at losses. Because then you're giving people such astonishing value that they got that amazing experience that they come back. And all we wanted to do was to get people to come back. Because eventually the mass would work out the better products that we had, we could sell for our higher margin. We would make our higher margin. And those are the products that weren't so good, we were quite happy to sell at a loss. So long as it all at the end of the day balanced out, then it worked. And it really worked. And then you also need to include shipping and all the other things to make sure that that's. Yeah, and the difference that we had with our channel compared to a lot of the other channels in the United Kingdom at that time was they were charging premium rate telephone numbers. So it was costing 30p or 40 cents to call up. Whereas we just kept our number at a local rate. And a lot of them were charging it for every order you made in a day. You'd pay postage and packing for every order. But already back then the web was beginning to come in. And we could see that people were getting used to the fact that they'd pay one postage charge no matter how much they ordered. So that's what we did as well. So we basically made it. We became almost like a consumer champion compared to a lot of the other channels. And we also didn't take ourselves seriously. And this is what you were talking about, the acting with the sales is the fact that because I was. My background was an actor and my wife, that's where we met. She was an actress. We had these amazing entertainers that we could then call on and teach them to become shopping TV presenters. We could teach them the sales aspect of it. But it was actually a lot harder to teach a salesperson how to be an entertainer. Because when you had those hours when there's nobody watching, you have to be able to keep the energy and you have to keep being entertaining. And that's what we did. So in fact a lot of my friends from the acting days over 20 years ago still working there today. Really? Yeah. So what happened to the TV? It grew from like 8 of you to 2,000 people right? Yeah so we had this. So by then the model was called. The channel was called Snatchit because you had to snatch the product before the quantity ran out. And it became a bit of a cult TV channel in the UK. And one night I was with my. But one of my best friends called Nick. And we had to sell some Samsung Night luggage. And I was like Nick how are we going to sell this Samsung Night luggage tonight? And we were out on the set and I was like I've got an idea. I said I wonder if anybody's ever disliked it. discovered what it is like to be a piece of clothing. I said, Nick, put me in that suitcase. I said, and we'll me around the studio. I'm gonna tell you what it's like to be a piece of, 'cause you speak Sam's nightlife. You know, it's like the Russian doll. You know, take it out and there's one suitcase and the second and the third suitcase. So we take them all out, put me in the biggest one. He's wheeling me around the studio and we're crying with laughter. 'Cause I said, we didn't take ourselves seriously. We just really had a lot of fun, which the viewer's loved. And so he's wheeling me around and I'm talking about what it's like to be. And obviously, the Sam's Nightlife is sells out, like real quick. We didn't have to do any selling. 'Cause people are like, the guy's going to suitcase. This is funny. I need you, Lugging, I'm gonna buy it. And it just so happened that a chap called Don was watching. And he'd come over from Thailand. He was an American guy. He'd left home at 16. He'd run away to Thailand and he became a translator 'cause he learned to speak Thai between American people that wanted to buy gemstone jewelry and the gemstone jewelry dealers in Chantaburi in Thailand. And so he flown over to the UK. He's now in his mid-20s. To do an exclusive deal with QVC, which is the biggest home shopping network, to supply them with gemstone jewelry. And he just happened to be clicking through the channels and he saw me in this suitcase. And he was like, this is crazy. And he loved the gamification that we'd done. So the very next day, he turns up at our studios, unannounced. And he was like, I wanna see the blonde guy that was in the suitcase last night. Well, there were sections still, no idea what he's talking about. And he was like, last night there was a presenter on TV with a London accent blonde hair. And he got in a suitcase. Who could that have been? So she rings me. She says, Teo, were you in a suitcase last night? I said, yeah, I was. Why are you asking? She was like, well, 'cause there's a guy in reception wants to see you. So when I started going down the meet the guy, and he was like, I wanna try selling my gemstone jewelry through your shopping television network. And I was like, okay, I'm interested. When can you get stock? And he said, I've got a wheelie bag here. And I've got 50,000 pounds worth of stock in this wheelie bag. He said, I'm here to do an exclusive deal with QVC. He said, I don't wanna do an exclusive deal with anybody. He said, but I love what you guys are doing. And I think we could revolutionize the jewelry industry by doing it your method. So long story short, two hours later. We go on air, he's given me a two hour lesson, and my lovely friend Debbie, two hour lesson in how to sell gemstone jewelry. And we go on and we just crash the telephone lines. Because the other channels had educated the customers as to how much gemstone jewelry should cost. The average piece of jewelry is marked up 1,000%. And of course, because he was sourcing the gems from wherever he could. And all above board clean, you know, because we had to be, because we ended up being a public list company. We had to be able to show due diligence that there was no child labor, all those horrible things that do go on in that industry. And we were also incredibly ethical people. So the last thing I would wanna do is ever run a business that's, you know, making somebody else misfortune. And I've got a lot of people ask that question. Like, oh, you know, taking stuff from the ground and, you know, did you do it authentically and ethically? Yes. 100% had on heart we did. And it was amazing because we tested it. We crashed the telephone lines. And I remember I was selling this Ruby ring. And we created such a frenzy of buyers 'cause people would like never be known to buy this stuff at these low prices before. That the very last item I presented, I held the box, I didn't even show it to the viewer. And I was like, well, this is, we've saved the best to last and there's only seven of them. And it's this number of carrots, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I read all the details out. We sold it before I'd even shown it to the customer. And I would turn the box around. I said, congratulations, that's what you bought. And that was the last thing that we finished with on that hour. And we liked this is really something else. We could revolutionize this industry. I mean, we were massive disruptors. And so we ended up shutting down the snatch it channel because we needed an 80,000 square foot warehouse just to hold the stock. We had teams all over the place. And we ended up just bringing it all in house because Gemstone Dury fitted into a small space. We actually massively out the security. And it was just astonishing. So you just focused on this gemstone? All we did was sell Gemstone Dury. We had one channel, we had two channels, three channels just selling Gemstone Dury through the UK. So he would source the gemstones. We'd handcraft the facility in Thailand. It would then get sent to the United Kingdom where we'd hallmark it because every piece of Dury in the UK has to be hallmarked. It's the oldest form of consumer protection. And then we would sell direct to the customers. And we had complaints after complaint after complaint. And then we quickly realized it was all the competitors complaining. So obviously we've come in and we're cutting into that 1,000 cent markup and people didn't like it. And that was the business that then we merged with we took the 50, 50 equity swap with the Gemstone Dury company and our TV channels because they had the supply chain. We had the sales arm. And it was a beautiful match. And that was the business that then got listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange back in 2007. This guy was so lucky. Yeah, he was lucky. But I started it with-- You know, the three people I started it with, you know, we had Clive Bryant, who was our tech guy, an absolute tech genius. We were told it was going to cost tens of thousands of pounds to write that software to allow the TV to show those live graphics with everything going on. Clive, I think, rode it in 72 hours. So you know you need the right team around. But Steve Bennett was the most phenomenal driver of sales passion and amazing man. And he set that thing and he was the guy that bought me in. And then we had Debbie, who ended up running pretty much helping to run the Gemstone Dury side of it for the supply aspects of it. She was a presenter. So it was a real team effort. And because we were a young entrepreneurial team, these big businesses that can't move, we could, because we would walk into a room for us, sit down and go, what should we do? We do it. And 20 minutes later, we're implementing. And that was the gift. I mean, what an experience. And I was in my late 20s. It was just so much fun. But yeah, I mean, the fact that the guy went there to do an exclusive deal. And he watched TV and he's like, I'm going to go find those guys. Most people just like, well, I came here to do this. I'm just going to get deal with QVC. But he's like, no. I need that guy, because he will make it happen. I think that's also a lot of risk taking and really, really good call. Wow. How did that business went? I know that it didn't go so smooth at the end. So what happened there? Well, so we listed it. We listed it on the Singapore Stock Exchange in the end of November 2006. And I remember we flew to Singapore. And when you see your company name go up on the ticker, it's like the best thing. It's like, wow. You know, absolutely incredible. After that, it went a bit south. And I have to be a bit careful what I say from a legal point of view. But they basically took all the money that we raised and set up the same channel in China, Japan, and the United States at the same time. They gently pushed us all out the business. And within about 12 months, it had collapsed. Because they took all that funds. And they didn't understand the intricacies of what we did. They didn't understand that we would quite happily lose money hour after hour and knowing that we had something coming up later that was going to recoup all of it. There was, you know, it's like any business. It looked great from the outside, but there's real intricacies to how it works. You know, they took away all the tools from the producers. So they couldn't see the hourly stats and things. Well, the producers are your front line. They're actually making the magic happen. And if you take away the dashboard, they can't make the magic happen anymore. And this happened everywhere at the same time. There is a happy ending to that story, though, that my friend Steve actually ended up buying the UK division back. And within, I think, three months he turned the business back around and it's still going now. And that was 2007. What do we, 2023? Beautiful. Yeah, yeah. But he said to me, do you want to come back here? And I was on a different path, but then I wanted to go do something different. So what's your path? How do your paths look like at that point? I was actually setting up an online video business. All right. I'd taken everything that I'd learned in the shopping TV environment and producing live. And I could see already see back then. And I didn't realize back then how ahead of my-- how ahead of the time it was, that people needed to be able to create online courses. Because most people that are speakers, experts, authors, trainers are-- most of them are in the-- or were in the time for money trap. So they're earning money if they sell their book great. But most of the time, they're only earning money if they're doing consultancy or if they're running a course or if they are actually doing group training in a company. Whereas if you take your content and you put it online, you open it up to a much wider audience. And you can earn money while you're not there. And I was like, this is an amazing opportunity. And because I knew how to do the live vision mixing technology, I was like, why can't we bring that to an online course studio? So I set up online video studios. But I would hire my shopping television mixers so the people that cut between the shots on the TV to actually do the same thing in a studio. So we had five cameras. And we'd have screens to say you were the expert. And you wanted to come to the studio with me. You would teach me the content. So I would ask the questions that the person at home would want to ask if they were sitting in the studio with us. And it's a lot easier for you as an expert to be teaching me the content rather than staring down the black hole of a camera. And did really simple things like on your camera that would-- you know, you'd be looking at over here. I put an iPad on the front of it. It was plugged in so it never powered down. And it had a picture of your ideal client on it. So whenever you're looking at the camera, you're not looking down this black hole. You're actually being reminded that you're talking to Mr. Jones, who is the CEO of whatever his business is. And it was just little things like that that we did. We ended up creating, I think, 60, 70, 80 courses over the years with that methodology. Because people love to watch the chat shows. people love podcasts, they love the interaction between two people. And so that's what we did in a video environment. - Wow, so you're a super expert in creating good video content, I need to consult with you on how to make this podcast more video friendly. - Okay, just testing it out, but seems like you'll be a good guy too, to help. So what did you learn? What was the biggest learnings from that business? - You know, the most amazing thing was, I had got to meet fascinating people, like you do with your podcast, and they were paying me money to come and create their content. So I was getting paid to sit there and learn amazing things. And actually this is where it leads on to time of the sixth sun. Because I did the video business, then we moved from London to Sussex, and I closed down the video studios. I wanted to do something different. The only problem with being an entrepreneur with ADD is there is always this bright shiny button syndrome, where there's the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And it's a very hard thing to stay focused on one project. As much fun as that project might be, I have to do different things, 'cause my brain just gets bored. And it's a gift, but it's also a bit of a curse. And so I shut down the video studios, and I moved to Forest Row in, halfway between London and Brighton. And it's a beautiful biodynamic village, very, very calm. There was a Steiner School there, which is where we stuck our kids. And the Steiner, you just going back to what you said about your children, the Steiner's style of education is it actually teach children anything until the age of seven. 'Cause I think trying to teach kids at the age of four to read and write, it's just too early. They need to play. - I do. - And the Steiner's system is for that. They basically just allow them to play from four to seven. They don't even start to teach them letters until seven. And I remember my youngest son coming back from school, and he was super excited because he'd learnt the letter R. And he was like, and he's seven years old. So, and he was like, we learnt today about the letter R, and the R is like, if you capital R, it's like red riding hood with a cloak. And they gamified it without calling it that. But they basically turned everything into story all into analogy, and they learnt so fast. And by seven, their brains ready to learn this sort of thing. At four, they're not ready. They need to be playing. They need to be in that world of imagination and story and everything else. So, that was the main reason we moved there. 'Cause we wanted to put the kids in that. In fact, my kids have pretty much been the catalyst for most of the moves that we've made in the last 14 years. - Okay. - Yeah, yeah. - Amazing when you look back with hindsight. - Oh, yeah, of course, that's why that happened. And so, I was in Forest Row. I hadn't worked for like two or three months, and one morning my wife says to me, she said, well, so what are you gonna do? And it wasn't that what are you gonna do today, question? It was like, when are you gonna get out from under my feet? We've been at home together for three months now, and I'm ready for a bit of personal space. I've fascinated in sound healing. And she was like, well, I said, I'm fascinated to learn about the frequency of sound. 'Cause I've always been quite spiritual, as well as an entrepreneur. And I said, I'm fascinated to know how, you know, crystal bowls and Tibetan healing bowls and gongs and all these things can create vibration in the body that can heal ailments and could heal illnesses. She was like, that's a very strange, strange thing. And I was like, yeah, I know it's strange. I said, but I'm interested in learning. She said, how are you gonna do it? I said, I'm gonna go to a shop in Forest, in Lewis, it's a town called Lewis, where they sell these crystal bowls, and I'm gonna ask the question. That was the end of the conversation. That was Friday morning, we're lying in bed. Then we get up, take the kids to school, everything else. And on the Saturday, I go off to play sport. And then she rings me off and she won't you won't believe this. She said, but today I was having lunch with some girlfriends and one of the ladies said, I'm looking for a sound healing apprentice. - Wow. - And this is within 24 hours of me speaking my idea. - Right, I'm just this. - And so she said, you need to meet this lady. Not only that, she's made a movie. And it's all about consciousness and the evolution and the awakening of the human species. I think you really enjoy her company. So I meet her the next week. I become her sound healing apprentice. We do about three sessions. And then I'm like, this is great, but I'm interested about the movie. How, what have you done with this movie? She said, well, I've spent 11 years going to 16 different countries. We've done the whole thing on a shoestring budget. She said, whenever I got, you know, at some money I would fly somewhere, or I'd borrow air miles from someone and fly and she said, and I never really knew what it was gonna go and do and who I was gonna film. She said, I just trusted that the right people would come in at the right times. And I said, so have you finished the movie? She said, no, she's a need to finish it. So I need budget to finish it. She said, it's about 85% of the way there. So she showed me what she's got. And I was like, this is amazing. This is an incredible project. And I said, can I help you to finish it? So I put some funds in, we finished the movie. And we flew to Australia. We went to King's Cliff and we were working with what the tribes there. And we filmed the closing ceremony and that's a complete different story. But then we went back and I said, how are you gonna market the movie? And so well, I'm gonna go to the film festivals, the traditional route and win some awards and then hopefully, you know, we'll get some traction and people will then want to take it or distribute it. And I said, well, there's another way. I said, there's, there's guides in the US that are doing these online docu series where they give all the content away for free. And then if people want ongoing access to that and are load more content and whatever else you can add in as a bundle, I said, then people will purchase that on the back end. I said, there's a risk. I said, but you actually end up with a lot more people watching it than if you were just to try to sell it straight away or if you were to try to go down the film festival route. And I said, how many hours of footage do you have? 'Cause you've got a movie, I said, but we need to turn it into a documentary series as well. I said, well, I've got over a thousand hours of footage. And her name's Nikki Williams and she basically had transcribed everything that she'd done over 11 years. So every single interview she'd done was written as a word document. So when we wanted to then create an eight episode documentary series, we just had to look for the keywords in the Mac and then the word documents would all flash up and suddenly we were able to build this eight hour documentary series in six weeks. So the movie took 11 years, the documentary is took six weeks. And then we launched it back in April 2019. So I handled all the tech side of it because I'd learn all about social media marketing. I'd learn about SEO. I'd learn it because I'd sat there and listen to experts teaching me about it in the video studio. And then I could call on those experts to say, hey guys, we've got this amazing project. It's all about consciousness, it's about raising the vibration of the planet. Will you help me? And they're like, of course we'll help you. So suddenly I had this team of people that would help. And it was just the most magical, magical thing. And so we launched time of the six sun back in April 2019. We didn't have an email list. We grew the email list to I think 30,000 people by running some paid ads on Facebook. In fact, then nobody was running ads to the spiritual audience. And then we switched off the ads on the day that we launched. And the email list grew from 30,000 to 70,000 organically in two weeks. Because when people started watching it, they were like, this is brilliant. And they started sharing it with their friends. And that's the gift of social media. Because it does allow you to open up to an audience. And if you've got something good, it will get shared. There's the other side of that. If you've got something bad happening, that gets shared too. It loves a good share, yeah. So we did the launch 2019. And then in 2020, I turned it evergreen so that we could automate it. Because the great thing where those launches is, you launch a huge amount of work, 20 hour days for four or five weeks on the top, complete burnout by the end of it. But it works. And a small percentage of people that ever watch it purchase it. But it was enough back then that it kept us going. And then when we turned it evergreen, now anybody can watch it at any time. Wow. Yeah. And it's 85-- I think there was a lot more than that she interviewed. But it ended up being 85 indigenous elders, wisdom keepers, thought leaders from those 16 countries around the world. And in essence, the message behind the movie is that the tagline is dreaming ourselves awake, which is that our thoughts create our reality. Our thoughts literally do program what is going to happen in and around us in the universe. And what's beautiful is now there's more science coming out all the time to show that this is probably correct. Yeah, beautiful. I haven't watched the movie, but I definitely want to watch it. I didn't have time. But it sounds amazing. So what else did you learn from that movie, from working on that in terms of like a world of consciousness? How did that change your spirituality? Well, I was interested in it anyway. But what was the key takeaway for me was the fact that a lot of these indigenous elders, wisdom keepers, they'd never met each other in person. Yet the message that they were all saying, no matter where they were from, was of a similar guy. It was a similar ilk, the fact that we are-- we are conscious beings and we are programming our realities. And it's the whole glass is half full, glass is half empty, analogy. If you live a more glass is half full life, you attract more positive things into your life. If you're spending your days thinking, where is me? There are times where we all dive into that hole. Then that's unfortunately what you're going to attract more of. And sometimes it can take something monumental to pull you out of that funk. And what I can see in my own life when I've gone through-- I come across as a very outgoing boy and TV person at the edge, I would call myself an introverted extrovert. So I'm actually introverted by nature. But I can switch it on. I can sit here and talk to you like this. But if I'm in a room full of people, I will feel quite nervous about talking to people. I find it quite challenging to make small talk, those sort of things. But most people don't know that because they see tear of the present, or tear of the executive producer, or tear of the stepping into that role. But actually, internally, I'm a bit like sometimes a bit shy. I mean, that's good to hear for people who know you or for people who are watching you understand that you're just like them. Yeah. And sometimes, yeah, if there's lots of people, we all feel a little bit nervous. Yeah. And then vulnerability comes up. Even now, the vulnerability, I'm 48 years old. old and still now I'm walking into a room sometimes I feel, "Whoa, I don't feel, you know, I don't feel like putting on that show tonight, I just want to be quiet." Yeah. I just want to listen. Awesome. Why do you move to Bali? We moved to Bali in 2020 because I could foresee that the second lockdown was going to come, you know, the news, the media, the fear driven was going, you know, canceling Christmas, canceling Christmas. And I've got these two boys that are a bit like dogs, they need to be walked three times a day. I was like, "I just don't want to be locked up in the house with them." The first lockdown in the UK was actually a gift because everything shut down, everything was quiet, we were cycling everywhere, the roads were empty, you know, we were spending huge amounts of time in nature, the UK had an uncharacteristically warm March and April. And actually that was when I sat down and automated the entire time at the six-unlock because I had the time to do it. But then I could see the other one coming, I was like, "Let's just go do something different, let's just do something crazy in wild." And we'd actually already were going to take the kids out of school. In the April of 2020, because we planned to travel South America. So I wanted to go visit some of the indigenous tribes and go do these amazing things and go to see the angel falls. And so we'd taken three months and we'd pull the boys out of school for three months to go to do that trip. And we were booked to leave on the 5th of April and then England locked down I think on the 24th of March. So we weren't able to go. So we'd already had these plans to go do something amazing. And I'd always wanted to travel when the boys were eight and 11 years old because I thought, you know, they're not at a point in their schooling where they need to be doing something but they're at an age where they're not going to get tired if we want to go on a hike, for example. You know, there was a fun age and that had always been our plan. And so then it didn't happen. We didn't get to go. And so then we were like, "Let's just do something different." So we came in not really knowing what we were going to do. But again, the universe is astonishing. When you make that decision to move, when you make that decision to do something, to take action, it's astonishing how that universal force just comes in behind you. And everything lined up, like anything and everything that we needed to line up. We left the UK in five weeks. So 20 years of history, we just sort of parked. We gave stuff away. We had beautiful things that we then fostered to friends. We were like, "Well, you'd look after this and have this." And if we end up coming back, you would like it back, but if not, you can have it. They were like, "Yeah, of course." We just, everything that needed to happen happened. And five weeks later, we were on that plane. We landed 31 October 2020 in England, locked down on the 4th of November. So we missed it by five days. And then I don't look back. I mean, what's that now? Two and a half, three, two and a half, almost three years. So how did, I mean, I think Bali changes everybody, at least for me and for people I know, I know a lot of people in Bali and everybody says, "When I went to Bali, my life definitely changed. When I came to Bali, my life definitely changed a lot." Can you say the same? And if so, how do you love changing Bali? Yeah, it brings up a lot of stuff. I mean, it sounds so woo-oo, but there's a very strong energy on the island and some people can hold it and some people can't. I've seen a lot of people come and go in the last 24 months. And it's not personal. It's just for some people, they just can't handle the amount of, it does tend to bring up stuff. I would say it brings out a lot of people's shadow side. We cover this in the movie. We have this outgoing personality. We all have a shadow side. But are you a personality you want to keep in the cupboard? You know what other people to know about. You don't want to see. And I think that it does get raised because at the whole point of living somewhere like this, it does raise your vibration again without sounding too woo-oo. But you can see that. You can see the changes that people go through. It's hard to hide stuff here. I think if you just stay in your village and you stay in your town and you just do what you do every single day, but in fact, you've had the confidence or the leap to go do something different. It brings stuff out. So I can agree with what your other guests have said that it definitely does give you that sort of kick up the bum sometimes you need to evolve. So the movie right now is running. It's automated evergreen. What's the next project for ADHD? I'm not sure at the moment. I'm not sure. I'm sitting in that space of, and actually because I've been working on this project nonstop for six years pretty much, this is the longest I think I've ever stayed on one thing. But I think it's keeping my attention because I can see the good it's doing in the world. And the best thing for me as the producer of it and running all the online and the tech and all the other side of it is the emails that we receive from people that just say this movie has changed my life. And we've got this amazing widget built into the website where people can write a review afterwards. And it's just full of four and five star reviews from people just saying, you know, wow, thank you for making this. The most goosebumpy emails, other ones from people that go, I just felt so alone. I thought I was the only person that felt like this, you know, that live in towns where people don't change and very conditioned in their views. And the fact that we are again, the whole movie is about the fact that we're moving from this 3D consciousness into this 5D consciousness. And it's called Time of the Sixth Sun because it's based on the Mayan prophecy that they said in 2012 we were moving, it was the end of this 5200 year cycle where we're moving from the fifth sun into the sixth sun. And the time of the fifth sun was very male dominated solar energy. It was war. It was greed. It was take what you can. And the time of the sixth sun, which began in 2012, it wasn't the end of the world. Do you remember everybody was prepping and saying, it's good to be the end of the world. It wasn't. It was just the end of a calendar. And so we're now moving into the time of the lunar energy, the female, the divine feminine. And that isn't the feminine versus masculine, you know, what is right, what is wrong. That's the fact that we are all made up of male and female energies. And we're moving that into that time of the divine feminine where we are going to see more peace. We're going to see more coordination. We're going to see more cooperation. And we're going to see more kindness on the planet. It may not be showing it quite yet. But obviously this is another 5,000 year cycle that we're moving into. So we won't be around for the end of it. For sure. So you're seeing that finally a awareness and consciousness is increasing. And now we're in an era where the everything is supporting this awareness. Yeah. Beautiful. There is. And you can see it. And even as, you know, as ghastly as that, the pandemic was for many, many people across the globe, I think what it did do is heighten awareness just to how manipulated we are. Yes. And you know, and I remember watching that the whistleblower come out from CNN and saying that he was told by the producers of the channel that they had to keep the ticker on the screen of the number of deaths. Well, for me, that was the that was just absolute backup and proof that the media, which is owned by six companies globally, are propagators of fear. And they keep the consciousness low and they keep people in a low vibration. And whether you want to believe that or not, from everything I've seen and everything I've read and the number of rabbit holes I've gone down and wearing my tin foil hat. That you can see it. You know, you can see the world thrives on bad news. You know, good news travels fast, bad news travels a lot faster. And so I think what that has done, and I can see it, I saw the largest amount of division that I've ever seen through that 2020 to 2022 period online, people falling out, people are going people are having to be right, people are having to be wrong, all those sort of things. You saw astonishing amounts of division, which I believe is engineered, you know, whether it be black versus white, whether it be, you know, male versus female, whether it's LB, TQ, whatever it might be, there's all these division things going on at the moment. What doesn't matter what your opinion on is, is your opinion. You know, and everybody's entitled to an opinion, but everybody's also entitled for a wrong opinion. You know, so that's often the way that it works. But what it has done is as working a lot of people up to the fact that the media manipulate us. And it's called television programming for a reason. That's funny. Yeah. I never thought about that. Yes. Yeah. And that's why the podcasting and all the other media, YouTube, everything else that really helps, because now people have a choice. Yeah. And a lot of people seen how they were manipulated, know choosing a better source of information. And that's how we are raising awareness. At least for this podcast, one of the visions are to wake up souls. People are unaware. As you're saying, they are just living fear. They don't say what's happening. So our discussion, hopefully, they listen to us. They go watch your movie. They listen to what we're saying. Maybe move to Bali. And become more aware. Yeah. Exactly that. And actually, I wrote a book. I wrote an ebook this year. Well, he's a time of the six-unee book, but it's all about the awakening process. You know, and four steps to conscious awakening. So we'll share the link to that as well if you don't mind. Because that's a great introduction to people that have never read this before. And it's based on a lot of the quotes from the movie and just simple things you can do in your daily life, just to become a little bit more conscious, more aware. Any example, you can share? Wow, it's hard when you've written an entire book to then put pick one, pick one thing out. But we go into depth about the dreaming ourselves awake. We go into depth, you know, and there's been amazing people out there like Lin McTaggot. She's not actually not featured in the movie, but she's got a website called the intention experiment. Where they use the power of intention. Whether you want to call that intention, whether you want to call that prayer, it doesn't matter. I'm not a religious man. So prayer to me isn't, you know, kneeling down and praying before something in the sky. It's intention. And it's the ability that huge groups of people focusing on the same thing at the same time can change things on the planet. You know, they cleaned up bodies of water, for example. I don't know if you know of Masaro Amoto's work with the water and he would take these astonishing pictures. of microscope pictures of water and they would put a photograph of a beautiful flower on it and then they'd take a photograph of the water molecules and there would be these beautiful what look like snowflakes and they would take a picture of 9/11 they'd stick the water on it do the same thing and you'd end up with these horrible distorted shapes because energy is water we're made up of you know 80% water and so if you can change bodies of water with intention what else can we change with intention so it's things like that we use examples of like that in the book which is great because a lot of the time if people are resistant to this sort of thing often it's to do with their conditioning it's to do with the whether they're being brought up to do with you know their education all those things I often find the people that the most belligerently want to argue this stuff are people who are very stuck in their own heads and not open to you know looking a little bit further out which is perfect because everybody's on their own path and everybody's doing their own thing but that's it that's it it's like you can't judge somebody else until you've walked a mile in their shoes yes nobody knows what's going on somebody else's life 100% you know treat everybody you meet like they're the most important person in the world yeah beautiful the last section I have killed is Corrupted Fire Questions same questions I ask everybody who comes you don't have to answer in a short form we're gamifying the podcast nice I like it let's go so first one is water sum routines that you have right now to help you get into focus and keep you motivated working on your mission for me it's exercise I know that's probably pretty standard but yeah I try and walk every day I try and walk on the beach every day and I find it really grounds me even getting outside into nature 10 or 15 minutes shoes off if you can if it's warm enough where you live and you know just just a ground I find that's that's a key part to it and then if I notice I haven't done it for a few days I start to get a bit bit bit scatty a bit bit hectic yeah is there any particular morning routines like when you wake up there's anything you do that there are things I should do okay there are things I like to think I should do yeah but actually having two young boys mornings get thrown at the window same with me it's the greatest gift of selflessness there is yes being apparent for sure the other question is how do your life change when you start making significant amount of money with your projects quality of life from the time when you were just starting out let's say and like working this six years as a helping your debt I read this amazing article about conscious wealth and I see that there is a poverty consciousness among some people and it's a load of that is down to conditioning it's that money's dirty money's the root of all evil all these things I don't think it is I think it's the fact that money allows you to do things and help people I think if you've got significant abundance it allows you to share it in a conscious way and to be able to share it in a conscious way means supporting your local organic shop you know going to the not going to the supermarket but going to the local market where you know you're actually making a difference to that family to be able to support complimentary therapists to be able to support massage therapists or an acupuncturist or somebody that's doing basically anybody that's doing good in the world you're having financial abundance allows you to support those people you know seeing people that post online about you know they need to raise X amount for a medical treatment or somebody's father's died unexpectedly and need to raise some funds so they can get them home for a funeral is that sort of thing that you can do to make a difference to me it's not about going out and buying a Lamborghini or a jet or a yacht or any of those things it's about being able to make a difference the betterment betterment for me is and in in in in the word is per biking which I love you know betterment of other people so I think that's the difference it makes beautiful worst on the beliefs that you used to hold can be 10 years ago two years ago choose any time frame that you don't hold anymore I think age age makes that happen naturally but what are the beliefs that's a difficult question I think I grew up in a very conservative household very loving conservative household but I have very much as the years have gone on moved away from from those views and actually for me in the movie we call about the fruit of the rose is that moment the fruit of the rose is a moment that you planted in your own consciousness before you came to earth for the moment when you're going to actually wake up yeah sounds very woo-woo if you watch the movie it'll it'll make a lot more sense I I butchered what Jeffrey Hopi actually said in the film but it's that moment where and for me that was the first introduction I had to plant medicine okay I'd never taken any form of psychedelic ever in my life and in 2015 I worked with Iowashka for the first time and for me that was my red pill blue pill moment from the matrix because everything dissolved it was just like you could see that we basically do live in this conditioned matrix and there is so much more to it and the you know we are cosmic beings that are stuck in these skin suits you know walking along doing what we were taught and what we've read and what we've learned and so that was that that was the moment for me that my entire belief system changed that was the day I got rid of my television I'd never read a newspaper again I did not want that low vibration that fear stuff coming in because we absorb all of it whether you're whether you think you do or whether you think you don't it's all coming in on a daily basis but by switching off that negativity it's quite amazing if something really big is going on in the world you're going to read about it on social media you're going to see it on Instagram you're going to see it on Facebook you see it on TikTok you don't need that stuff in the background blaring you with all that negativity 24/7 or have many hours a day the number of people I know that have their television on in the background a lot of the time not in Bali but back in the UK and you go around to people's houses to have dinner with them and the TV's on the background it was like and it's unconsciously all going in it's like no so he's set off I'm not gonna so that was the belief I had that that was all right and now it's not all right yes I go as far as I turn off all social media as well at some point yeah because for me I didn't see like some people see inspiration and I would just see waste of time I'll just procrastinate watching how other people live and like it won't give me anything yeah most of it's fake anyway yes exactly because once you see those people you see their posts then you know them you're like is that really what's going on or is it covering up something else yeah so and I and I don't want to use for maybe five years now no TV and I steal them aware like if things happen somebody will come like let's say you come to a podcast and you'll tell me before the podcast I don't know there's an earthquake or something yeah and I'll know about it or somebody will call me like if there's earthquake in the Nigerian my mom calls me and she's like are you alive I'm like why she's like there's an earthquake in like Philippines I'm like I'm an Indonesia and it's okay so people who take who care about you they'll let you know and how do you feel that's affected your consciousness amazing I mean I still watch some YouTube I like to watch eight ball pool so that's the only thing I watch like I would watch some eight ball pool or maybe some movies but yeah I find them it's so much interesting to talk about people to talk with people but you don't know about them because people are used to like people who post their Instagram they're used to people not asking them questions because everybody knows and I would go and they would tell someone I would be like I would be like wow tell me more and they would be like very serious and I'm like yeah I don't know what's happening with you and then I'll tell my wife that she's like yeah I know I follow this guy and then she's telling me more about their stories I'll be like well but for me less excitement of life isn't much higher now because yeah just don't follow anything for me everything is new and yeah just go with it you just make me more personal and more connected with my friends than before yeah and with a two and a four year old it also really helps because I keep you connected to that to that everything's new energy exactly exactly the other question is what were some of your biggest failures and what do you learn from them oh my goodness how many times have we failed I mean so many times something that you could draw like direct lessons maybe choose one that you can just like say okay if I would probably do this isn't that what it was those seven incarnations of channel for the shopping television business was definite but again it was having the confidence that this isn't working cut it off do something different change change change just keep changing you know having that unwavering tenacity you know people say I'm wavering tenacity but it's actually true you know if you if you're gonna be a true entrepreneur you need to have a thick skin you need to know you're gonna get knocked down and it's not about how long you stay down it's how quickly you get back up and just us to settle down and fall off the horse get back on and sometimes it's really hard you know some days you just wake up and you think it's literally like walking through treacle yeah I'm just gonna quit this you know at what point do you give up what point do you go I just cannot do this anymore yeah and usually that's the moment where something happens and then boom you're you're back on the you're back on the path again sometimes things have to fail you know we learn from failure for sure it's just it's again it's also the psychology with it and I'm sitting here sound like yeah yeah I do that all the time I'm the sometime the most unpleasant grumpyest man on earth when stuff doesn't work out because when you put your heart and soul into something you think I've given it 100% and then it fails you're like oh and it's very hard on the ego yes it's the ego though the ego's a pet now literally there's that little voice there you've got a good voice you got a bad voice it doesn't matter who each side they are but you just got to make sure the good voice is louder than the bad voice I've found I have the same thing I was talking to somebody on this podcast and they shared an amazing approach. If you voice it, voice your anger, like scream or cry or do anything about it, it goes away. So for me, I would be like, I would come home and I would be like, "Damn it, nothing works, I'm gonna quit this right now!" And then I feel better, I'm like, "No, it's all good." Yeah, yeah. Back to work. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think. Probe and Shed is a Probe of Half, if nobody's listening. Exactly. So now I'm like, there's something about it, sharing your emotions and just being instead of just like, sometimes I'm sitting like, it doesn't work, it click a button, 100 times. I know it doesn't work, I still click it. So I was just like, scream. Because when you scream, you're like, you're back. You're back to normal. And that's where something like going to sharing circles is actually really good. I was a member of a men's group in the UK and I've only been to one or two here in Bali. There's lots of them. But again, if you're to be in a safe container in a safe space where you can share what's really going on, not your Instagram profile, not your Facebook, not your TikTok, what's really going on in a space where you know that nobody else is going to share it and they're not going to sit in judgment and what you share is not going to leave the room. It's quite amazing how many people, when you're having something coming up for you, are in the same space and haven't wanted to admit it. And so that is a really healthy thing. And I think Western society doesn't allow that very often, doesn't allow that, especially male vulnerability. I think women are much better at sharing. I think ladies are much better at getting together and talking about what's not working and helping each other. But guys have got this bravado thing going on a bit where they're not going to be vulnerable. I'm going to try in front of my friends, but sometimes it needs to happen. And you suddenly find, oh, he's going through that as well. So that's a great thing to try and find some way that you can share in a safe space when you're having those failures going on. Because often your failure is the catalyst for somebody else to do something amazing. 100%. The other question is, if you admit yourself, let's say 10 years ago, knowing what you know now, what would you tell him? Worry less. Yeah. Worry less. Because it's amazing, especially if you run your own business, it's how much weight you have on your shoulders. And I'll probably say the same thing to myself in 10 years from now. It's the tail. Look at when you're 48, you should have worried less. It's very hard to do. But yeah, it's finding ways and outlets. I would say worry less and share more. It goes back to what we just talked about. It's the fact that find a couple of people that you can actually really share what's going on with. I mean, I'm very lucky I have that with my wife and my partner. But there are things I can't share with her because I see her eyes glaze over. She's a beautiful, talented musician, super, super, you know, and I start talking to her about business problems and I can see just goes like this. And the same thing if she starts talking to me about poetry, I go like this. So I need other people to reach out to in those spaces. Yes. But yeah, worry less. Usually it's all going to be all right. Yeah. I guess since your father lets us questions about fatherhood, how to raise kids in like if couple, couple less than that you learn, like you have kids that are already definitely older than my kids. So you survived much longer than I am. What would be some of the main lessons you learn raising kids so far? Selflessness. You know, you have no idea before you have kids just how much they're going to interrupt your life in a beautiful way, but also in a very frustrating way. You're not being able to do what you want to do, you're losing that sense of independence. You know, not just being able to on a whim decide you're going to go out and do something because you could, you know, suddenly you've got this beautiful little being, you know, three days old, four days old, 14 years old that you need to care for, you need to look after and you need to provide for. And I guess it depends on the different ages of it. With my teenage son, I'm now getting to a space of giving him as much space as he can possibly need. There's an amazing lady here in Ubud. She's an 80 year old act puncturist and I went to see her and she was like, you just got to let go. She was like, you got to stop trying to control the uncontrollable. She's just let him be him. And I've been doing that for about six months. And there are still boundaries and there are still things, but I'm a lot less trying to control it. I'm, I realized that a lot of my control of my children was coming from wanting to protect them from stuff that had happened to me. But that is in their experience, that's my experience. And I think that was the, that was a key part for me of letting go and actually letting them be them and stop trying to control things because they're going to make mistakes. We all make mistakes. We all fail. We bounce back from it. But it's giving them this supportive environment to allow them to make those mistakes without hurting themselves or somebody else without being pyromaniacs and setting the house on fire. Those sort of things, they're the boundaries you need. But, you know, to allow them to make those mistakes, that's, that's a key part of it. And to listen, my wife is an amazing listener. I mean, you know, my teenager will open up to her in depth more than he'll open up to me because I'm a bloke. I'm a boy, you know, he's a boy, whereas he really opens up to her. And it's also being present and being kindly present. So when you are choosing those moments to really be present with the kids, really be present, you know, and I find that very hard again with the distraction, with the business running an online business, you know, there's always something notification going off. And it being present is a key. And it's something I work on a lot because I'm easily distracted. But being present with your kids, you know, just taking them out for a day and leaving the phone in the car or in the bike or just it cannot be disturbed by that. Then I notice an amazing change. It grounds them because they feel that they are the number one priority in that moment. And that really helps. Yeah. I noticed I only have two and four year olds, but I noticed their reflection of us. If something's not going well, be with me and my wife or in me and I'm too nervous, they're going to act out. And I always like say, ah, what are you doing this? But then I need to understand it's me, just like energy. Yeah. Because when I'm chill, they will be okay, completely chill. And I also feel that we have illusion of control. Because when I was 14 year old, my mom would try to control me and I'm like, wow, I'm going to do when you're here, whatever you tell me to do, I'm going to go and do whatever I want to do. So, and even like with four year olds, you like, how much control do I have? I don't really have, like if you want something, if you want a candy, you'll go get that candy. Like there's nothing you can do. So I might as well give that that candy or throw the candy away so there's no way he can get it. But if it's like lying somewhere, the candy will be eaten. Yeah. So I'm like, yeah, I'll just accept, try to accept it. Very hard. Yeah. But what you said is very right. You know, they are so energetically attuned to us, whether we like it or not, that when we're not in a good space, they're going to play up. And then I've seen it again and again and again. And then I think why the behavior like that goes because I'm not actually centered. Yeah. This is a me thing, not a them thing. Yeah. Yeah. And the last question I usually ask is according to you, how to live a happy and fulfilling life? I think the key to me living a happy and fulfilling life is to make sure that my needs are being met. And that again, as a parent and a husband and a business owner and things often, I can find that I neglect to look after me. Yeah. I'm always looking after everybody else. And have you heard of the love languages? Yes. I mean, there are like five or two. Yes. An online test you do to find out your love language. I did that with my wife. And I tried to guess what her love languages were. I got them both wrong literally. One, two and three for her. I thought we're four and five. And the same in reverse. That was a key to living a happy life. Finding out what her love language is. And so if you're listeners, having looked to that website, it's great. You know, and to get both of you do that test. So for me, my love language is active service. I love doing things for other people. Her physical touch just wanted me to go up and hug her lots of times a day because to her, that meant I loved her. And I didn't realize that which after 20 years was quite a fun little meant thing to find out. And I was like, oh, this is it. This is it. And so suddenly every day, we know when I walk in, I say, I give her a hug or you know, give her a kiss and suddenly, you can see she's like, oh, yeah, because I feel loved for me. For me, it was active services. It's really weird. It's such an amazing thing, such a simple thing. Happiness, we're in control of that. And I think we have a responsibility to ourselves that if we are unhappy or we're in that space of, you know, dark, darkness and which we could all can go into very easily is to try to do something to make a change, you know, fundamentally try to make a difference. In fact, there's a chap that is in that group that we both know who's written this book called How to Die Happy. And I'm just reading that at the moment. And it's fantastic. It's fantastic. It just shows you all of these different, different ways. And the fact that really the only body response, the only person responsible for your own happiness is you. And once you take personal responsibility for that, yeah, I can have happiness with my kids. I'm going to have happiness with my beloved wife. But actually, I'm responsible for my happiness. And if I'm not happy, I have to make the change. It's not their fault. It's not like kids fault. It's not my wife's fault. It's not my friends fault. It's my fault. Because something is not good inside me. So I think taking personal responsibility and working out what that is and doing the bit of that self investigation, that's the key to it. And when I do fall down that hole, which does happen, you know, we all fall down that hole sometimes, that dark place of war and woe is me. I often think, what am I not doing for myself that will make me happier? And then you do a bit of self-inspiring. I'm not doing that, or I haven't played tennis for a while, or I haven't walked on the beach, or I haven't taken the dogs out. I haven't spent a day with my kid, or I haven't done, haven't haven't haven't. You do one of those things. Just do one thing, and that makes a difference. And suddenly you're like, "Oh, here we go. The ladder's coming up to get me back out the hole again." Beautiful. Well, Tier, thanks. Don't throw my questions. Before we go, how can people find out about your project, anything you want to share, and they will put in the show notes? Yeah, thank you. Well, if anybody would like to watch Time of the Sixth Sun, the website is Time of the Sixth Sun Launch.com. You can go on there, and you can choose a time that you want to watch from anywhere in the world. And we also have an e-book, which I believe is at Time of the Sixth Sun Launch.com/ebook. And then there's that four-step guide to the awakening process that we wrote. And then we're on the social media platforms, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram. It's there. And again, the movie's there to watch for free. And if you love it and you're particularly flushed, then you want to buy ongoing access to that and a whole load of the other extras that are included with that package, then we're really grateful. Because I think cost is about $4,000 a month to keep this thing online. And so we need to sell a fair few packages that sort of $37, $67 to cover those costs. So yeah, that's always greatfully received. Amazing. Well, please guys go and check it out. Hopefully this will help you to sell some more. Amazing. Thank you very much for coming. Thank you for your time. I really, really enjoyed it. And I tell you thanks so much for inviting me to be your guest. And thank you for your time for listening. Thank you. And for everybody listening, you guys know what to find us. Bye-bye.