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Speaker 2already mentioned a few of them. We mentioned the Fairport's debut album being this year. We mentioned the Joni album being this year. Let's just quickly run down some of the other sort of debut albums this year. And there's a lot, you know, there's a lot of albums this year that were the debut albums by artists that went on to much, much greater things. So I know that we should do too much on any of these, but other notable debuts this year. James Taylor, Keith Jarrett, status quo, Credence Clearwater Revival, Jeff Beck, Isaac Hayes, David Ackles, Aphrodite's Child, Neil Young's first album. I love that record, but I really like that.
Speaker 3Yeah, that's one of those albums that gets unfairly criticised,
Speaker 2because it all came after. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3But actually, I possibly prefer it.
Speaker 2If you follow that album with everyone knows this is nowhere, after the gold rush and harvest, it's going to be overlooked, but I agree, I love it.
Speaker 3It's not always in Nietzsche or rain. Nietzsche, yeah, yeah. And they are, again, it's got that kind of baroque sensibility, which puts it in 1968. It's a baroque thing that's on my album. But the one thing that Neil Young has become known for is that kind of in a Gator de Vida style simplicity that, you know, he'll just pummel those three chords, whether softly or loudly throughout the piece. But actually on his debut album, and some of his writing for Buffalo Springfield, he's a really good musician.
Speaker 2Well, but I need to be fair. He did keep that up through his career. You're right, they're the less lauded albums. But now I'm like, it comes a time from '78, for example. It's incredibly lush, very soft, right? It came out in the slipstream of an album like Rumors. It fits right in with that kind of vibe of rumours. But yes, he's always had through his career, these, what you might call more middle of the road albums, more middle of the road moments. This is one of them. I'm not sure how he looks on it now. I don't think he particularly writes it very highly himself, as I understand it. But I'm like you, I think it's not one of my favourite
Speaker 3Neil Young albums, but it's definitely in my upper half of Neil Young albums. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2It would probably scrape into my top 10 Neil Young albums, isn't it? It's a very, it's a very auspicious debut album. Unlike not everyone had an auspicious beginning to their career, let's talk about the cheerful insanity of Jarls, Jarls and Fripp. This is quite a sweet record, isn't it? It couldn't be further away from the intensity of In the Court, The Crimson King, could it, which would be the following year. This is, this is an album that probably is a little bit of a sort of English psychedelic curiosity nowadays, isn't it? I think for years it wasn't even available, wasn't it? It was something that people searched out if they were big crimson fritt fans. They would search out this album and then be surprised by this very sweet, very whimsical. I mean, does it stand up, Tim? Is it just a curiosity?
Speaker 3It's more curious, you know when we're saying about you know, Joni Mitchell and Bowie, because Bowie's debut is similarly whimsical and bonkers, but I think there's enough there for it still to be a classic of its kind. I'm not sure this is a classic of its kind and what makes it remarkable is obviously what followed it. You know, In the Court, The Crimson King is in a different universe. Yeah. It's a masterpiece. Yeah. And the fact that that masterpiece sprung from this band. Yeah. Not so long before. Although to be
Speaker 2fed, there's a couple of tracks at the end where you can go with the benefit of highs.
Speaker 3Is it air your
Speaker 2eyes? Yes, and I think there's another track, which is an instrumentalist. I have been. Yes, it's right. The instrumentalist. And I think it's written by Fripp, the one I'm thinking of. There's a couple of tracks right at the end where with the benefits of hindsight, and I realise this is, this is the big caveat, with the benefit of hindsight, you can kind of hear the origins. Awesome. Of some of what was to come. Yeah. But yes, the leap from this album to In the Court of The Crimson King is substantial to say the least. Yeah. Also this year, Tentative Beginnings, I'm not a big fan of these records. I think you are Tim, the first two deep perplums. You seem to quite like these, don't you?
Speaker 3I do, yeah. My favourite deep perplums are the first three deep
Speaker 2perplums. Yeah, see, I'm not a fan of those records. I don't particularly like the singer at this time. And I think they're finding their way. They're finding the deep perplums sound. Yeah. And of course, interestingly enough, one of the other albums they made in the early years was the, was the album of the classical composition, the concerto for group and orchestra. I think there's a sense that deep perplums were the first four albums, were just trying all these different things, trying stuff at the wall.
Speaker 3I mean, I mean, I've, you know, particularly like the album from 69, which I think is the self-titled deep perplums, where they cover Donovan, don't they? They do live here. Yeah, the Don, the Don. The Don, the second, the second Don. It could be another Donovan on this. I think it's the same. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so I particularly like that. But I think, you know, Hush is a great single. It is. They're a fantastic. Again, you can tell there are really interesting players here, though they're not doing their patented heavy rock sound. Weirdly, and you could hear it because I think it was covered during the early 90s. There's a sense of baggy matchester in some of the groove pieces, because they're kind of drawing slightly from R&B, the heavy organ. And I'm thinking in spiral carpets, even. Well, I can hear that early deep purple sound in early, late 80s, early 90s matchester bands.
Speaker 2Well, but I think deep purple always had a very strong element of funk and groove. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what set them apart in a way. Along with Led Zeppin, they both had that kind of incredible sense of groove and funk. Fireball, my favorite deep purple. I'm just really, I've got a very strong element of funk on it and groove. They'll tell
Speaker 3you one thing I'd concede is that there's an element to some of this when they're grooving. Do you remember that music you used to get in the Odeon cinemas between the adverts? Or even in the adverts? Okay. You know, welcome to badly carpets. Oh, yes. There's a sort of aspect that that ear of deep purple could have produced the soundtrack for it, because they were still having those adverts in the early 80s, sending the warrington
Speaker 2Odeon. But also just the sheer reliance on the amount of cover versions they're doing again at this point in there. Yeah. So I think they, this is a band that certainly took time. Unlike Neil Young, who we think was out of the gate was just my incredible.
Speaker 3I think what your Mitchell was, Neil Young was. Yeah, Mitchell was. Deep purple. For me, weren't, they weren't. They weren't, though, I like this album because they're all potential because I know I do, you know, I might go with your fireball, might be my favorite, but the self-titled third album is almost up there.
Speaker 2Randy Neumann's debut album, another artist we've mentioned a lot on the show. I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Randy Neumann. You're a resident, Randy Neumann, let's go. How is his debut album on a scale?
Speaker 3He's like Neil Young out of Johnny Mitchell. He's just out there. He's out of the gate. I think it's great. Though he doesn't like it and some fans don't like it, because it suffers from that 60s orchestral over arrangement. I really like it. And I think some of the songs it favours with your orchestral over arrangement. But yeah, you know, he's opening track Love Story. It's this very brief piece that tells the story of a relationship up to having children up to them dying in a home in Florida, in a short pop piece. And he also, like a lot of artists during this era, he's drawing from music from the 1910s, 1920s. There's also kind of a Ray Charles element from the 50s, but he's unlike anybody. These exquisite miniatures, you know, things like Cowboy. And I think it's going to rain today. Remain amongst my favorite tracks of all time. His voice is there. His writing is there. His piano style is there.
Speaker 2From what little I know, he's almost got that sense of the American Short Story writer about him, isn't he? Almost like a Raymond Carver song. Raymond Carver story. And I do like that very much about him. But again, another outlier, another maverick, another person's really hard to play. I don't know where do you put it.
Speaker 3Yeah. But again, he was one of those artists that was already being covered by artists. And if I, you know, I realized that I, and you knew him as a kid, I heard, you know, I think Simon Smith is an amazing dancing boat. It was a huge hit. Was it Alan Price? Which I loved when I was tiny. And then equally, my dad had this album of Neil Diamond covers. And he was singing. So I was only about eight or nine. But he was doing covers by people like Johnny Mitchell, Randy Newman. It was the first time I ever heard those songs. And it was the only Neil Diamond album I liked because of the quality of the lyrics and those songs.
Speaker 2Right. Progressive undercurrents. So we're still a couple of years out, really, from the real explosion explosion of so-called progressive rock. Well, in fact, at least a year out, if you, if you make the argument that in the court, the Crimson King is the real opening salvo of progressive rock. And of course, there's always the arguments that Moody Blues, Days of Future Pass. In fact, Moody Blues made a great record this year too, which we'll talk about. So we're not quite yet in the thick of progressive conceptual music. But the roots are here in this year's music made by some of these artists. Let's talk about my favorite band of all time, Pink Floyd. It's also for the secrets. Really? There are some days, yeah, really. There are some days when I might say, this is my favorite Pink Floyd record. There are other days I'll say animals, there are other days I'll say Amogama. There's something, and I know that this is Nick Mason's favorite Pink Floyd record as well. There is something about the fusion of psychedelic production techniques with experimental music, you know, elements So in the title track, on "Celebrity Secret," no one else was attempting anything this experimental in pop music, other than perhaps the Beatles with a track like "Revolution 9" on the White House, which I don't think is very good. I think "Revolution 9," I know we said we were going to talk about that one. "Revolution 9" for me is an example of something done a lot better by Sirius Classic. I would agree,
Speaker 3whereas "Blackbird" is a supreme example of its form.
Speaker 2Agree, what do you think about the new "Beyonce" version of "Blackbird"? Have you heard it? I've not heard it yet, no. Do you like it? It's all right. She's basically used the original backing track. Oh, okay. Which I'm presuming macarons given her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's done her own vocal, and she's kind of added lots of harmony. It's, it's, listen. It's a brilliant song. You cannot hurt that song. It's just, it's bullet proof, as they say. Anyway, but there's so much more on this record. You know, set the controls of the heart of the son, amazing song. Remember a day, we talked about that sentence in the stager that love music seems to have at this point, a sense of tapping back into this sort of feeling of childhood. This rick right song is so beautiful. Corporal Clegg, which you mentioned earlier. A brilliant piece of experimental psychedelic pop, which still sounds right up there to this day, to me, with all the best examples of the genre. But all the best examples of the genre.
Speaker 3Floyd with comedy, and that would do the kazoo break.
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely. And then finishing with this extraordinary Sid Barrett, I mean, Jugban Blues. You know, we talked about how the incredible string band we're having a big influence on, on the way people were writing music at this time. I wonder if Sid listened to the incredible string band because it's, again, it's got that sense of being these little fragments that are strung together with almost this kind of sense of dream logic, psychedelic dream. And then the, the idea that he would get the sort of
Speaker 3salvation army burning in the middle. I thought that was a bit Charles Ives. It should remember the Charles Ives composition where he wrote something where he'd heard two brass bands going down a street. Oh, wow. And there was a collision between the pieces. So he wrote a symphony based on this collision he heard in his head. And I kind of hear that in the Sid Barrett composition here towards the end. But yeah, no, I think it's a wonderful album and funnily enough, you want to, as I was playing it today to refresh my mind of this album, which I've always liked, I was going past one of Nick Mason's houses because he's got one of his main houses as about 15 minutes from where I live. So as I was going past it, source for the secrets. Good soundtrack. Good soundtrack. Yeah, Nick might have
Speaker 2had his, he had his window open and he heard you listen, so he'd been happy.
Speaker 3Yeah, he was in a two up two down because he likes the album.
Speaker 2But I mean, Sid's lyric, I just think in some ways, he tapped into the psychedelic spirit in a way that just felt completely natural and not self-conscious. Yeah. See, we talked about a lot of the psychedelic music. A lot of it does seem very much like posturing very self-conscious. Yes. And we've said it never feels like that. And it feels like it is somehow reflecting his very soul, if I can be potentially about this. So, you know, the opening salvo to Jabberman, it's awfully considerate of you to think of me here and I'm most obliged for you, to you for making it clear that I'm not here. And then the way the record ends, it's devastating. The sea isn't green and I love the queen and what exactly is a dream and what exactly is a joke. And the fact that that is the end. Yes. Of Sid Barrett's tenure.
Speaker 3When I was listening to that today, I thought, actually, I wish you'd never done anything after that. I like some of the solo work. Me too.
Speaker 2Wow, Mad Care.
Speaker 3I really love it. Yeah, but I think what an ending to a career this would have been. Yes. And I think the thing is once more, it has almost as you say, this kind of the collision of the Salvation Army, playing randomly. And then this beautiful acoustic strum and him with this disconsolate voice.
Speaker 2The voice. And that lyric.
Speaker 3It's great. And of course, it's the only track that he writes on it, isn't it?
Speaker 2Well, he, yes, he's on three songs on this record, but you only really hear him. Are you hearing him doing the slide on Remember a Day? You don't really hear him on set the controls for the heart of the sound, although apparently it was recorded during a session when he was in the band. And then Jug band blues is essentially a solo piece.
Speaker 3It's great, but what I thought was interesting about it was it's how seamless it is that basically it fits from the end of Piper. You know, this is a logical continuation of Piper at the gates of dawn. And yet you also have hints of where Pink Floyd will be six years from now, because actually Corporal Craig, which is probably my least favorite track on it. There's the Gilmore refrain, the Gilmore sung refrain, which could be a Gilmore sung refrain on Dark Side of the Moon, or wish you were here. That's in the mix somehow. That's got that kind of, as we say, that kind of Hendrix energy of the year, but it comes out of Piper gates of dawn. As you say, it has this music contemporary classical, which is beyond anybody at that stage, hints at where I think a lot of Berlin music is going, especially Tangerine drums in their early days. You know, you can hear so many bands. Then you've also got the template for Indy in set the controls for the heart of the sound. There's still a kind of, yeah, there's a shoe gaze quality. There's also kind of a punkish energy in that piece. And the opening of the album as well, I think. There'll be
Speaker 2more like, yeah, very muscular, almost proto-heavy rock. Yeah. And Gilmore's voice, you know, just completes the sound of the band, doesn't it? I mean, he's just such a great voice, great in the guitar playing. So much as I love Sid, there's no doubt, the Gilmore.
Speaker 3Well, I think Richard Wright is the voice that's probably closest to Sid Barrett, I think. And once more, his compositions on this album, brilliant. Yeah. Absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 2But again, both throwing nostalgic for childhood. Yeah. See, so I remember a day. And you know, all his songs were like this. On the next, on Atom Heart Mother, you've got Summer of '68, again, another nostalgic song. He's always got the sense of nostalgia for childhood. And that's his into Barrett. That's what I mean.
Speaker 3Exactly. Yes. His voice is similar and his preoccupation is similar. I love them, you know, yeah. So any of them could have actually been the lead vocalist and taken this band. But what I'm amazed at is how it seems like a natural progression and yet hints at myriad possibilities.
Speaker 2Yeah. I mean, on the surface of it, it's a very schizophrenic record. Yeah. But actually, it does hang together because there's this fluidiness. And maybe it's something we're just looking at it through with the benefit of hindsight. There's a fluidiness that goes through all of it from the exurious music, concrete, of sourceful of secrets to the jug band, you know, the Salvation Army band on jug band blues. There's a searching curiosity about the possibilities of music. And of course, you know, they were making this in the slipstream of having lost their primary singer, songwriter, you know, focal point. And by all accounts, they were kind of flailing at the time. And yet they produced this mass up to me.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah. A psychedelic masterpiece. And so many lovely echoes of the future, like the organ, you know, part of the reason my sourceful of secrets works for me as a track is because it resolves so beautifully. And you can hear that trick used in Sirus Minor, which is one of my favorite, Floyd pieces. And also, you can hear those chords and that stateliness as a part of Atom Hot Mother. You know, there are so many future records and maybe even as well, because I suspect right wrote those chords, you can hear it in dark side as well. Great gig in the sky. There's something of that Elegic quality. But as we said before, as well, there is humor in this album, this silliness.
Speaker 2Yeah. And jug band blues is a Salvation Army. Yeah. Ultimately, the lyrics kind of offset the, you know, the playfulness of the music and give it a gravitas that I can't think of many other artists that could have pulled it off other than said at that time, you know. But there's something about this, there's a sense of otherness about the record as well. I can't tell you how they made some of those sounds, you know, on things like Corporal Clegane, sourceful secrets. There's still sense. How did they make those sounds? They still sound like nothing else I've ever heard on a, you know, on a subject on any record, you know. So for that reason, I think it is on, you know, on the right day, it is my favorite Floyd record, because as you say, it has everything they're going to become, but it still has the sense of playfulness and whimsy from the Sid era. Sid is still there, but Gilmore is there too.
Speaker 3And with that devastating ending, it has a seriousness that any, you know, the most serious Pink Floyd final cut possesses, it's got something again that's kind of an echo of the future. And it's the first artwork of hipnotes as well, wasn't it? I think you might be right, yeah, because he was a school friend, wasn't
Speaker 2he? Yeah, and then
Speaker 3he's in, there's something about the kind of murky dreamlike quality of the cover that again draws you in.
Speaker 2Don't expect any negativity about Pink Floyd on this podcast, folks. Yeah, we in love him. Right. Other progressive undercut. So we had that, again, this is another album that could have easily been in the tentative beginnings category. Soft Machines first album. It's not my favorite soft machine album. It's the one that's closest to psychedelic pop. Yeah. I think very quickly within the space of two albums, they're going to become something completely different. They're going to go down that jazz route, jazz rock. Here, they're still making something very much of its time, isn't it? And clearly, it wasn't where their hearts really lay. And it's a good record. I'm really like it.
Speaker 3It's very good. Yeah. And it does fly off at tangents. I think there are quite a lot of instrumental pieces. A lot of the pieces bursting at the seams. You do kind of get that impression, listening to both the Floyd and the soft machine, and to an extent, the caravan album that we'll probably discuss, you can hear how exciting it would have been to have been at one of those underground nights in 66, 67, 68 as these bands are emerging with those light shows. I think it still possesses a quality of that. I mean, I really like it. I like it. Don't get me right. I do like it. From the opening, you said you hated it.
Speaker 2It is my least favorite of the early soft machine.
Speaker 3From the opening second to Robert Wyatt. It's Robert Wyatt. He's a voice is there. Yeah. And he's again, he's not just singing because he's got a kind of slightly more R&B-flavored pop quality in his voice on this album, but he's still improvising with loops. And he still goes. Yeah. And Kevin Ares is
Speaker 2Kevin Ares from the word go as well. Yeah, he's the only person that isn't himself from the word go is Mike Rallage. -
Speaker 3To an extent, yeah. I mean, I'm sorry, I really like, I mean, the first two albums strangely might be my favorite, along with seven. - That's crazy. - I've never seen albums. I really like these first two. 'Cause again, it's almost all potential that this, there are so many ideas. And as with the Floyd, it's very experimental. Yet, very sweet pop sensibility is also underpinning it. You can hear that Robert Wyer has listened to Dino Ross and the Supremes and the Beatles, as well as trying to tear at the seams of the music. -
Speaker 2I really like the second one. The second one for me is a big step on. - Yeah, I love the second one. - The third for me is, as with a lot of people, third would be the one I would consider to be the classic. Another album that could easily have been in the tentative beginnings. Caravan's self-titled debut album, although I don't think it's that tentative. - I think they come out of the gate as Caravan.
Speaker 3They are fully there and it might be my favorite caravan album. -
Speaker 2You're the second person that said that to me in the last few weeks. My friend Nigel also begs me. - Okay. - So his favorite caravan album is well, I absolutely love it. They're completely caravan from the word go. Well, it's the beginnings of something that will become known as the Canterbury Sound, along with the soft machine. - Richardson Claire, we love Richardson Claire's voice. Don't we? I mean, that's the other thing. -
Speaker 3Pipe, pipe, there's a lot of pipes as well.
Speaker 2We love his voice. - Quintessentially English, isn't it? - So, so, so English. -
Speaker 3And it's ambitious. This is the thing that both the soft machine and the caravan albums, they are very ambitious in parts. These are the, they don't forego experiment and they don't forego immersing themselves in a pop sensibility and that's why they both work. - Some great pop songs on this record. -
Speaker 2Yeah. - Part of my own. - Part of great songs. - Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so we love the Caravan debut album. Another album that could have been in the tentative beginnings. Although again, I don't think it's tentative. The first family album, music and adult house. It's kind of the anomaly in their catalog because it's the album that kind of nods to, can't it be street, psychedelia, baroque pop. There's a lot of stringer arrangements. Family later on became a little bit more muscular, a little bit more rock, no less ambitious. But this record has got some gorgeous baroque string arrangements and Roger Chapman perhaps hasn't become quite as unique in his vocal style. And so it's kind of raining in a little bit. One of the most extraordinary. Along with Robin Gearbatch, I see a strong connection between Robin Gearb, vocal delivery and Roger Chapman's vocal delivery. The use of vibrato, almost a beautiful ugly, a beautiful ugly kind of quality to their voices. -
Speaker 3Violin, how did it's an extent as well? -
Speaker 2But yeah, absolutely. - I mean, I caught the Larry's alarm first. - Larry's alarm. Well, you were not the first person to describe Violin as loud. People were doing it at the time. They were describing as Larry's alarm. Some beautiful songs on this record. And very psychedelic production, very much of its era in that sense. But I could certainly understand why this would be someone's favorite family records. -
Speaker 3Again, it might be, along with Bandstone. I love Bandstone actually, but this as well. Really unpredictable arrangements. Again, it's almost got that. I'm thinking of William Burrow's Cut Up. There's a sense of this album that it's all over the place. That all my somebody has cut up three different albums to make this fully formed. -
Speaker 2A fully formed, and a band that, again, perhaps have been a little bit forgotten in the scheme of things. I think there was a point where family were right up there with your floids and your soft machine. -
Speaker 3And they had a great sound and a great vocalist and the odd hit. I mean, great songwriters, you know, Roger Chairman and John Whitney wrote some fantastic, a great songwriting duo, yeah. - Yeah, my friend, the son, obviously. You know, Burlesque, what a fantastic. Almost that to me was doing the stones and the faces, better than the stones and the faces. They could also do that earthy glam pop hit. -
Speaker 2Very well. - And they were great live by all accounts. So, but they broke up in '73. I want to say-- -
Speaker 3I think it's only a movie with the last one, wasn't it? -
Speaker 2Yeah, I think maybe they ran out a little bit of steam in the end, but incredibly prolific for it. Anyway, this is the debut record. And it's, yeah, I'd say it's a classic. Another album that was a debut. In fact, they made two records this year. The Nights, The Thoughts of Urbanist Adject and Nights, which is very much again, psychedelic pop. Pretty much from beginning to end. And then later on in the year, they made the album "Ask Longer Vita Bravis", which I think means art is long, life is short in Latin. And it's the beginnings of Keith Emerson's attempts to the second album I'm talking about. Beginning of his attempts to fuse classical and pop music. I don't think it works at this point. I think he gets it right later on with Emerson Lake and Palmer. - Yeah. - It's a very badly produced record which doesn't help. It sounds like it was very rushed. But I do love the earlier album, The Thoughts of Urbanist Adject. I think that's another classic of the psychedelic pop era. What do you think, Tim? -
Speaker 3Well, I think Emerson is pretty much there from the second album. You know, as a stylist, you can hear him. He's got his sound, he's got his showmanship. - What do you think of that? - Yes, yes, yes. - Talent, he's kind of there. - Yes. - It's not being perhaps realized
Speaker 2to his best degree. I suppose maybe that's the problem that he didn't have the musicians around him to be able to sort of keep up with him at this point. -
Speaker 3But he has a quality, you know. And again, I'm familiar with the nice material in the sense that I would've heard everything they've done three to four times and so on. But not overly familiar. But I know of one producer who I won't name. Who idolizes the nice, King Crimson, Egg. Think's ELP of the worst band that ever existed. -
Speaker 2Well, you have to tell me who that is off mic, yeah. - Well, I mean, the first, the first nice album is a classic, but it has no relationship at all to pretty much anything else the nice did in a short period. -
Speaker 3Well, let's start off with the backing band for P.P. Arnold, didn't they? -
Speaker 2That's right, yeah, yeah. And then it has absolutely nothing to do with what Emerson Lake and Palmer did, you know. It is very, again, very much of its era and the vocals are whimsical and very tongue in cheek. But it's good, it's good psychedelic pop. It's very good psychedelic. So I rate that, but not the fallover, I did listen to it yesterday. But again, with the benefit of hindsight knowing what was to come, you can see how it was a very important stepping stone. -
Speaker 3I mean, the things with the nice, it's never grabbed me. And again, I know that there were huge influence on Genesis because the track, the knife famously, was called The Nice. They used to go and see The Nice Play. And I think the particularly banks in Gabriel were in awe of it. And that was meant to be their nice tribute, but they entitled it The Knife. So I've been kind of aware of their influence on people and people saying, by God, if you saw them, it was so exciting. And that fusion of classical and rock at that point, and wasn't let me, I think, their rowdy at one point as well. -
Speaker 2Maybe that's the point that I think certain things are incredibly innovative at the time. - But they do sound dated when you use it. -
Speaker 3Well, this is it I've only ever heard them. - Yeah. - So I'd have probably heard the nice for the first time in the 1980s or 1990s. And it didn't necessarily grab me. I thought, okay, I can see the birth of something. I can see something interesting. That was it. I was glad I'd listened to it, but it didn't necessarily compel me to listen to it again and again. And you're right, the production seemed. - The production's very weak for the time. -
Speaker 2But I think that's it. The path of kind of fusing classical music with rock would have been well worn by the time you would have heard the nice. - Yeah. - Then I would have heard the nice. But at the time, perhaps now I'm like, arse long, arse longer Vita Bravis would have sounded revolutionary. You know, here he is doing the corralia sweet with rock drums and rock bass, you know. But now it's been explored and it just sounds very dated and very gulps. -
Speaker 3This ship, even within a year, you know, yes, who I think were quite influenced by the nice. - Yes. - The debut, which I think they fit into my Academy of the Underrated and if they'd have just done their debut album, we'd still be talking about it. - Yes, I love it. - And they go off in these tangents with occasional classical looks which I assume are influenced by the nice. Sounds great. - Yes. - And the Led Zeppelin album, you know, the debut. Again, it sounds colossal. They are Led Zeppelin from their opening no onwards. And I don't know, the nice sound it always very tentative to me by comparison. -
Speaker 2Yes, I think they were forging, you know, well, this category we've called progressive undercurses. It's the idea I think is these are the artists that are laying the foundation for what would be progressive rock and the nice, absolutely props to them, probably more so than any other artist on this list, maybe with the exception of Floyd, are laying the groundwork for what progressive rock will be, which of course, as we've discussed before on the shows, very much about hybrids, hybrids of rock and classical music, hybrids of rock and jazz, hybrids of rock and blues, hybrids of rock and folk music, and this idea of conceptual thought and the idea of expanding the piece of music beyond the three-minute pop form. It's all there in the nice. It's all there on this album. It's an example of something as a kind of blooper that other artists would take on and take to, including Keith Emerson himself, of course. -
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah. And it is, you said it's kind of, again, I'd have probably only heard the debut caravan album, or debut soft machine album in the 1980s. So I'd have heard these around the same time, I'd have heard the nice album, but they still-- -
Speaker 2They stand up. - And they still stick. - They stand up. -
Speaker 3And stand up, yeah.
Speaker 2And in a way, that should be no reflection on what we're talking about here. The time, these probably all seemed as revolutionary as one, another, and who's to know what's gonna date, and what's gonna date well, and what's gonna date badly, who's to know? So we are very much looking at these albums from the perspective, obviously, of 55 years, with the benefit of hindsight of all that. time and and we can make these kind of you know judgment. I think you're right.
Speaker 3I mean I think you know again I won't mention them in case they're listening in but there's a band I remember we saw in 1989 or 1990 one of the best live bands we had ever seen the record came out one of the biggest disappointments ever it could not convey how original and exciting it was as a live experience.
Speaker 2I think kind of who you're thinking about.
Speaker 3I think kind of who you're talking. Yeah we saw them in Warrington. Yeah and they were brilliant. It was amazing. It was a it was a jaw-droppingly brilliant gig. The album comes out and it wouldn't have been the best album of the day of the day. It was under-produced wasn't terrible but it would be yeah but it
Speaker 2was such a I might know exactly you're talking about.
Speaker 3And I wonder if the nice with that they were electrifying. Yeah that's it in a live context it blows your mind but somehow vinyl cannot capture it.
Speaker 2Anyway for whatever reason the nice records not the best but again seeds of progress to me some other records in search of the loss called the Moody Blues. Fantastic record. Really good. The first seven Moody Blues albums are just stunning. They did do the R&B wonders
Speaker 3before didn't they?
Speaker 2Well I'm not sure yes you're absolutely right. When I say the first seven albums I'm forgetting the Danny Laney or Moody Blues album. I guess I'm talking about the Days of Future Pass you just say. Even they refer to Seventh Sosion as the Seventh album. Oh I know I know I know. So they also dismiss the very pedantic. Very pedantic. No but the listeners will be too so it's good that you preempt the listeners being pedantic about it. The Seventh the Seventh Moody Blues albums from Days of Future Pass to Seventh Sosion. I sometimes forget which songs are on which album because there's so much of a piece to me. A brilliant one of the greatest runs of albums ever made I think you know. A lot often people say well in the court of the Crimson King wasn't the beginning as a progressive rock as the Moody and I can see that argument but the Moody's always had more of a pop sensibility didn't they which I think.
Speaker 3No this album does go off in on quality terms. Well it does. A lot of poetry. A lot of sound effects. Love it. A lot of melatron. Very pretentious. Very pretentious. I mean you can definitely see the majestic ballad side of King Crimson. Oh because it has already been completely. I thought the wind could have
Speaker 2been a Moody Blues album. Exactly. Yeah could have been a low child.
Speaker 3Even the title track to an extent could have been I think King Crimson do it with a penesh and you know that of course they were signed in Ishto I think to Thresh or weren't they they're going to have Tony Clark. Peter and I have a producer.
Speaker 2Was it Tony Clark or yes I think you're right Tony Clark yes yeah the continuity on the albums are fascinating and I love that's one of the things I love about the Moody Blues albums is there's all those cross-fades all the time. So you get this constant sense of journey you get this sense of concert but there isn't any any sort of musicianship or shredding or showing off on Moody Blues and I use the word I use the phrase showing off in the best possible. I love the showing off on the Crimson Records but that's I think the difference with Crimson
Speaker 3and I think with Crimson when they show off they show off with a passion it's not just chops for chops completely there's an intensity that maybe comes from Fripp's love of Hendrix you know there's a warness to King Crimson's music. Well they're in McDonald's
Speaker 2love of you know Coltrane. Yeah I'll buy that yeah that's all in Crimson and there's none of that in the Moody Blues.
Speaker 3No it's a great I think this is their first great album I think days are future past obviously you know nice white setting is abnormally good. I think the album as a whole again it has that slight idea and control yeah I'm not quite fond of the orchestration and it does remind me you know want some more of buy your shoes from Batles. Yeah I know you made me. There's an element of them or you know it's a kind of incidental soundtrack to a sort of brick com of the
Speaker 2period. I think the other thing that doesn't quite work so well about Days of Future Past is a lot of the time the orchestral passages are not integrated with the rock bands so you get here's a little bit of orchestral music with the poetry over it. Okay now the band are going to play you one of their songs.
Speaker 3This is fully integrated.
Speaker 2And I think you're
Speaker 3right I think from this point to seventh year and that's not really a misstep. Well also they've
Speaker 2got rid of the orchestra and they've got the tron. I mean the tron. Unless we forget the Moody Blues one of the quintessential tron bands. It's good along with Crimson. That's the other thing they have in common with Crimson is they're one of the seminal tron bands. You know soaked as my friend Michael Acker felt would say soaked in melatron. It's a bit like my fourth coming solo album. Sims fourth coming solo is soaked in melatron.
Speaker 3It's it's very diverse but it's soaked.
Speaker 2It's an orgy an orgy of melatron. I would say it's an orgy an orgy of melatron.
Speaker 3But yeah I really like I think it's one of the most inventive quirky. In Justin Hayward they've got a vocalist as good as any. It's good as Greg Lake. Yeah definitely it's good as Greg Lake. Great vocalist and the others are good. I mean the point is they've got three really strong songwriters and five if you well four. Okay Graham Edge who did this sort of poetry. Yeah well this is it they all I think the problem they had is that Hayward is one of the best vocalists of his era. They all could have made it separately. They're all great and that's the problem that almost everything is judged
Speaker 2against Hayward's greatness to an extent. And the hits tended to be the ones that he sang and
Speaker 3wrote. Apart from singer and a rock and roll bounce I think it was a John Lloyd wasn't it. And enormous and what's interesting is they were really big here but they were particularly big in America. Right. For whatever reason you know again it's uncompromising pretentiousness top of the charts.
Speaker 2But yes in another dream. They are also kind of a normally aren't they they almost don't fit. It's like we talk about them as being progenitors of progressive music but they don't really fit that. So they're they're very much out on their own and perhaps they paid the price slightly for that and I'm not suggesting they're forgotten but they perhaps haven't got their due over the longer period of time in terms of their their influence and how they were really at the top of their game for about five years.
Speaker 3And ambitious you know and one thing a very prolific but you know very lightly churning out great pop songs and pretentious conceptual works.
Speaker 2So we love the movie but a couple of other mentions in the in the so progressive undercarst traffic second album a little bit of a step down from the first for me but it's a good
Speaker 3right. I agree yeah. Well for me they're coming to throw in on John Barley corn.
Speaker 2Yeah well I love that I think again the first album is a classic. The DMS is a classic of the psychedelic. Dave Mason is very good. I agree. Sean O'Brien, I'm not so familiar with this what's this got this has got in terms of what I
Speaker 3think has one of the earliest earliest
Speaker 2examples of a 20 minute long. Yeah that and in a ghetto
Speaker 3divida all they to be fair right. It does a bit more than in a ghetto divida
Speaker 2divida is just just a jam session with a drum solo in the middle. I don't mind it. No this is more like it's correct me if I'm wrong not seven this is more like a sweet isn't it.
Speaker 3Yeah it's funny I mean my fee I think again they churn you know Humberg and what it should have paid a probe of my favorite moments ever by them but I think Sean O'Brien brightly comes pretty close. There are some great pieces on this but I think that maybe their best album is grand hotel 72 I think that's a really strong record you know they continue to make great records. This one it's funny but it's a bit like the nice in the bar the odd track it's never imprinted itself fully on me.
Speaker 2Well also like the Moody Blues they're kind of an anomaly aren't they they don't really belong to any particular genre you can identify they just they just are pro colharmon as you say they kept on making records and kept on kept on having hits. Good record. Yeah, thank you for having hits for for many years to come and yet they are largely remembered only for one song unfortunately for them. They're largely remembered for one song. A salty dog.
Speaker 3Not a salty dog. I love a salty dog. Me too yeah but what I think they managed to be is incredibly soulful as well as having this slightly rarefied classical air and what I hear in the best of early pro colharmon is bits of a way Gabriel's genesis are going and bits of talk talk strangely. We've got I've just got to
Speaker 2mention talk to an episode where I really thought we were going to be struggling but you've managed it too well done.
Speaker 3Thank you and I think this has Hollis has got this very earthy soulful voice as has Gabriel and it's that kind of voice like Brookers I think there's a you know there's a lineage Brooker Gabriel Hollis. There's one artist that you can and I'm going to throw Paul Buchanan there
Speaker 2as well. There is an artist that neither myself or Tim have managed to shoehorn into this. Yeah go yeah but I'm not going to say because it would be self-defeating to mention okay I just want to see if it naturally comes up. Although obviously Kate Bush she did you she's not the person I'm thinking of now she's not the person she's not no this person I've got a feeling that I don't mention the name okay I've got a feeling this person might come out when we start talking about
Speaker 3the marble index. I think you can hear the kind of birth of Gabriel's genesis the birth of talk talk and it's partly because of that combination of the earthy and the rarefied.
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