#433 - "Wasn't A Gun" Charlie Kirk Autopsy & the Hidden Detail Everyone Missed | Baron Coleman

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And I think pretty much everybody universally agreed with that initially, even the people who are now massively in the camp that 100% they believe Tyler Robinson killed Charlie Kirk with a 30-06 on the low-seat center roof. Very early on, most of the people thought, "I'm just not sure about that. That story doesn't seem right. Or the 30-06 doesn't seem right. Maybe he used a different round. Maybe it deflected off of body armor." People were really having trouble coming to terms with the fact that that wound could be created by a 30-06. And so I'd say pretty early on. Yeah. I started to notice something was off. I didn't really. I didn't get skeptical of anything that was happening until that Eric Kirk video came out. Yeah. Which was not. Not too long after it happened. I don't remember. And then shortly after that, I think not even 90 days after that, when I saw her get up in front of those people, that audience wearing that glittering pantsuit with the pyrotechnics and the sparklers and trying to tell everyone that J.D. Vance needs to be the next president, that's when all my red flags went off. And I was like, "Something is not right." You know, I actually was pretty easy on her for a long time. So much so that I would have. I could do a whole montage of people in my audience writing chats in. So, I'm like, "I don't know, guys." And they're like, "She's acting too weird." And I'm thinking, "Well, I don't know how I would act. I've never lost a spouse." You know, I've got a wife and eight kids. I have no idea what I would be like if something happened. And I would say about that time, December, is when I started thinking, "Oh, man, this just doesn't seem right. Something's off here. I don't know what it is. And then maybe she's just a weirdo, but something's off." Yeah, people are weirdos. And they say everyone grieves differently. But this is just a particular odd strain of grieving I've never seen before. I've never seen this strain of grievance in my life. I haven't either. I haven't either. It's not just the grieving. It's the attacks. It's the leaning into political positions Charlie was leaning away from. I mean, there's a long line of. And then you start looking into her past. And that's when things really start to unravel for me with her. You start looking into her past and you listen to podcasts she'd done. And she was a nobody. I mean, nobody knew who she was. Right. But when you start looking into the things she had said publicly, the things she had produced publicly, and you start comparing it to reality, it doesn't add up. And so you think, "Okay, well, maybe she's like a lot of people. She pads her resume, or she pulls back on things that she's not particularly proud of." Just own it. Just say, "Yeah, okay, I shaded the truth a little bit on that. I didn't want people to know I'd been in six pageants. I kind of thought two was enough. So I said two. I'm sorry, I've grown a lot since then." But no, I mean, it's like attack, attack, attack, attack, attack. Right. And that's not really something we see a lot in people. We don't see that attack mode in people who are truly just grieving and want to be left alone. Right. Right. It's okay to be less famous. Yeah. Right now is a good time for you to just take a beat, step away, take some time away. Come out in 12 months and do some sort of public talk or whatever. need to become the CEO of the company, start running everything, doing all these crazy, fantastical, you know, WrestleMania events and stuff like that. It just makes it, it makes it look more weird. And it makes that like from a PR perspective, it's just the worst thing you could do in my opinion. And maybe they didn't think that through, but I mean, yeah. And then the Candice thing too, like a lot of people are calling her a nut, but you know, if it wasn't for Candice kind of like going full speed, full bore and covering this thing to, you know, the nth degree, like she's been doing, I don't think that anyone would have followed suit. Like, I don't think that, I think it's possible if she never like did any of the things that she's doing, that it could have been like case closed. Like it seems like a certain group of people want it to be case closed, the TPUSA people. Well, I agree. I think there are two things that could have made it case closed. One is even if, you know, you know, I think Candice doing what she's doing now, had Erica just gone away, had Erica just said, oh my gosh, I'm in shock, you know, released a statement, maybe done one, one interview with somebody, but really taking the Jackie Kennedy approach and just saying, I've got to raise my kids. You know, thankfully my husband left me with a boatload of money. We'll never want for anything, you know, please respect our privacy. Had she done that, Candice would look completely unhinged. The investigation would have had no steam. Everything would have died immediately within two weeks. Everybody would have moved on. It would have been, it would have been memory hold, you know? So that, that would have ended it. The second thing that could have ended it was Candice not catching fire on the way she has. She has kind of spearheaded the decentralized investigation and in many ways kept it alive. And it's not through coordination. It's not anybody looks and says, oh, Candice Owens talking about this. I should talk about this. It's just, she's such a magnanimous figure. She's such a big media figure that when she, she's covering something, people are going to talk about it and other people are going to be interested in it. And other people are going to look for different angles and it, and it sort of coalesces into a really big outfit, a really big investigation. Either one of those two things had been different. The Charlie Kirk story would have been a seven to 10 day news cycle story and it had gone away. And there was something that just came out. I was actually watching on her channel this morning. This was from about 12 days ago. She was showing this text message that when Andrew Wilson nominated her, he started off his whole debate opening argument or whatever, talking about this text message that he had saying that Charlie Kirk was worried about the left trying to kill him. And he was texting like his head of security about that or whatever. And he never showed the text during the podcast because he said he wanted to do it on his own podcast. And then it finally just got released from what I've heard. And she showed it and she showed it right next to a clip of Erica Kirk saying on an interview that there was no text like that. Right. She had said, no, this never happened. He never, I would have known that because I had his phone. Right. So like she is pointing out so many holes in the story. Yeah. That text message in string, you just attributed it to the head of security. They never actually told us who got that text message from Charlie. Who he was sending those to? Yeah. Oh, really? TPSA has not owned that text message for one. They've never said, yes, that is legitimate. Oh, Andrew Wilson just released it. Andrew Wilson released it. Everybody assumed it was legitimate. Andrew said he got it from TPSA. Everybody just kind of accepted that. My take on their PR, they have the worst PR in America. I've never seen as bad a PR in my life as TPSA, but my take on that is start releasing things through your own official channels. Start being radically transparent and stop attacking people and see if this thing doesn't turn around for you. See if TPSA doesn't start to mend fences with people who really, there are a lot of people who are sitting back who might otherwise support TPSA, but the constant weirdness, they sit back and say, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. They sit back and think, no, I'm not going to support that. This is not the organization Charlie built. Right. At what point did this whole investigation that you've been doing start taking off? I just did the one year anniversary of the first episode I did on it. That was on September 14th. Oh, no way. Yeah. My first show was four days afterwards. Literally two days ago to the year. Yeah. Yeah. A year and two days ago. Right. That's wild. So yeah. And I had for days leading up to that September 14th, between September, I guess, 11th and 14th, I had tried to get other podcasters to cover it. The Google Trend stuff that I'd kind of put the show on the map. I had sent it to Ian Carroll. I'd sent it to Candace Owens. I'd sent it to three or four other podcasters. And at first I was like, why is nobody responding to this? This stuff's brilliant. Why would nobody get back to me? But the reality is now being on the receiving end of all those types of emails, I understand why you can't possibly respond to everybody. And so I thought, all right, well, I've got a small podcast. There were 45 people listening live at the time I did that podcast. I went back and pulled the stats. There were 45 max concurrent viewers on that show. I think 200 and something total views on that show in the first 48 hours. Um, and, and that was four days afterwards. And so it's, it's really been from the beginning that it's something's looked off in the, in the entire thing. And then how are you doing your investigative research on this? Like, what were you looking at? Like, what were you, were you talking to other people on the internet? Like what kind of sources were you using to look into this stuff? And like, and I mean, the first six or eight episodes was mostly Google Trends analysis. Just looking at the Google Trends tool, um, and what made you want to do that? So I had worked, um, on a team that did some consulting for a grocery chain about 15 years before, uh, 15 years ago. And one of the tools we use, we use a lot of tools. One of the tools we use is Google Trends and it could, it could kind of pick up the next big thing. You know, you could see what people were searching for before it was available on grocery store shelves. And, and it was a way to, to pick up on trends. It's a really powerful tool. Along the way, I'd kind of thought, you know, if this is picking up, because they're real searches, if this is picking up real searches on, you know, Nalgene water bottles, what else could it be picking up? And so I started looking anytime there's a mass shooting or anytime there was a school shooting, I would kind of search the guy's name. Was there anybody looking for this guy ahead of time? Oh boy. And more than half the time, maybe, maybe half the time or a little more than half the time, you would notice weird blips on that name a day or two, sometimes a week before the event in weird locations. Like, Washington, DC. And you're like, why, why in Washington, DC, are they searching this shooter's name by his three full names, three days before the school shooting in Arizona or Colorado or Minnesota? And so I, I, in the back of my head, always kind of done this. And I was talking to somebody at work about it and I was like, you know, I found this thing and it's really weird. And I kind of use it internally to, to clock which of these are real and which of them may be, may be fake. So after the Charlie Kirk thing, the next day he said, did you do that Google trends thing on this, this shooter? And I was like, no, he's like, you should. I'm like, all right. So I kind of started running it and I immediately saw so much weirdness. I thought, oh my gosh, this is like the biggest signal I'd ever gotten on any one of these shootings ever. Um, I mean, eight o'clock the night before in Washington, DC, people searching Thomas James Robinson, um, or Tyler James Robinson, excuse me. The night before? Oh yeah. Yeah. You should go back and watch some of those early shows. They are wild. The, the searches. And then. And you're doing, you're doing a lot of doing this all live. Uh, I was, I was prepping during the day and then, and then doing a live show at night. Yeah. Um, but, and then I would, but I was at the time I was only doing a show a week, so I would prep all week, you know, when I had, I was still working full time. So I'd prep all week in between, you know, things at work or at nights, evenings, weekends, whatever. And then I would do a Sunday night show on it. So the first one was pretty basic. It was just Tyler James Robinson, a few other names, really just looking in Utah, Washington, DC, a few other places. And then part of the analysis is you have to rule out that this isn't a common name that's searched all over the place. So you'd look in New York and Texas and California and is it showing up everywhere? Right. Because if not, now you might have something. Um, but man, the second or third show, I can't remember what it was. I started looking, um, overseas, certain Middle Eastern countries. And I started seeing just every, every single name that I was plugging in was pinging over there. And they were all in a very tight window of June and July, right before the September. Um, event. And what names were you searching? Uh, the medical examiner, the chief of public safety, the, uh, judge, the surgeons, the, uh, defense attorneys, um, the roommate. I mean, everybody, everybody involved in it seemed to be popping up in this area. And that's when it took a really weird turn because I'd, I'd seen where Ian Carroll said, Oh, Israel must've done it. Or other people were saying that. And so I thought, I wonder if they were searching. And when I started seeing the bing, bing, bing, bing, I mean, just over and over and the one that weirded me out the most. And I thought, all right, maybe I'll just give this whole thing up and stop. So it'll show you exactly what country those searches are coming from. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can't say for certain who is sitting at the computer terminal searching, right? You just know that there's somebody in this geographic boundary that's that an IP address originating in that boundary. So if I set my, um, my, my VPN to Qatar, it's going to come out as if I'm searching from over there. But most people don't do that. Like if phone, punch it in and look, Oh, okay. That's right. And, and what it made me wonder is, and, and what I'd kind of wondered during the school shooters and mass shooters, is there some group of people that are sitting behind waiting to see, you know, what, what, what is out there on this person? What are people going to see when this news breaks? What are they going to find? What do we need to get out ahead of? What do we need to maybe mop up a little bit? You think they would do that more than 24 hours in advance? Well, I mean, but you know, sometimes it's just a final. Has he done anything this week? But it, it, it, man, Tim, I'm telling you, it was wild series. And that kind of landed on a few people's radars and the show sort of picked up from there. That's fucking bananas, dude. Yeah. And so what country specifically overseas? It was Israel. It was all, was there any other countries? Uh, Egypt hit quite a bit. Um, yeah. Uh, and then in, in Europe there would be occasional blips here and there, but nothing, nothing too remarkable. That blows my mind. So if, if, if this was some crazy conspiracy conducted by like a rogue military faction of some government or some foreign country, or even our country, you would think that like the CIA or the Mossad would, would have the wherewithal to foresee that people are going to search Google trends for this and find out, or like at least use a fucking VPN and make it point to like Australia or something or North Korea. Yeah. I think a lot of people didn't know the power of the internet. They didn't know that searches were getting stored in this tool. Um, no one had publicly, I guess there, there had been no one publicly online pointing out the connection between Google trend searches and like mass shootings or like this, right? No, that had never happened. No one had ever made that connection. No, I've never seen anyone make that connection before this case. Um, I, I had never even seen Google trends covered in the news in any way. So I think most people either were totally unaware of the, of the tool itself, didn't understand how it worked, that there were actual real searches being populated in at random into these, into this tool. Um, or just never considered that somebody would ever do it. Look at that tool. I mean, you know, if you, if you're planning, if you're going to dinner, you're not thinking, Oh, well, is somebody one day going to look and see that I looked up, you know, you know, Bob's seafood shack down the road and I, you know, but it's in there. We've talked about red light therapy on this show many times before, and I've already, I've already used, I restore as elite device. 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I restore is offering huge discounts on their new sculpt LED belt, bring body focused light therapy into your routine support. A more sculpted look and feel more confident in your skin, all from the comfort of your home. Just head to irastore.com and use the code DJP. That's [email protected] and please support our show by telling them we sent you and did you look up the Google trends for the Thomas Matthew Crooks guy? What'd you find there? Yeah, he was searched in DC, I don't know, six months or so before. There's I did a whole, I didn't do a show on that, but yeah, I did a whole thing on that. That's another really fucking weird one. Yeah, yeah. That that that one's too weird. I always told my audience after everything I looked at on that. I'm not I'm not gonna cover that one. People aren't covering it. Yeah, I'm not either. Why? I don't want you know, why don't you think people are covering it in general? It's very odd that Trump won't talk about it. You know? Yeah, you'd imagine if that was as well if it was what we saw that he'd be posting about it every fucking day. Yeah, I mean, maybe he doesn't want to encourage others to do it. You know, that's the kind of innocent explanation. Maybe he doesn't want to, you know, tell people, hey, you can take a crack at me anytime you want. My security's inept. But it's also possible that you look into it, and you start to see patterns, and you don't want to investigate it. You don't want to go down that road. What kind of patterns? I mean, if you're the president of the United States, and you think the government may have taken a crack at you, is that something you want to draw attention to? I mean, your security detail is the government of the United States. Your military is the government of the United States. And if you're the head of the government of the United States, do you want to draw attention to the fact that they may have taken a pot shot at you? I don't know. It's a weird position to be in. Yeah, but why cover Charlie Kirk and not that one? Who, me? If you're any journalist. I don't know. It does seem like more people are dubious of talking about and going deep into that one. Yeah, it does. Now, the Charlie Kirk thing has what I think a sexier media angle in that he died. Run with the blood. That's kind of the media's mantra. And so there's a sexier media angle to that than somebody's ear got hit. Now, there was somebody who died at the Butler event. I'm not making light of that, but it wasn't a national media figure. Right. Yeah, there were so many things that were strange about that. I just recently learned something new about it the other day was that when Ken Silva was in here, he was explaining to me how when you listen to all those shots go off, when Trump's up on the podium, you hear like, I think six, five or six shots go off. Then he like gets down, they jump on top of him. And then there's like six or seven seconds go by before the sniper takes out Crooks. Because there was a guy on the ground right in front of that building Crooks was on top of that shot like a handgun at him or something. And apparently hit him or grazed him or took out his rifle. That's what stopped him from firing. I had no idea until like last week. Yeah, I know that's been a that's been a real point of contention whether or not the local guy hit him. And I don't and where did the Secret Service shot really come from? Yeah, there were some people early on saying it was from 400 something feet away. And then all of a sudden, they try to change it to 100 something feet. So there's a lot of weirdness with even what happened. Then you have the Secret Service snipers on the barn. I don't know what it was behind him. Some sort of sniper nest up there. Yeah, they have a deposition where they said they thought they were taking fire, that they thought they could hear the bullets whizzing by their head. Really? Yeah. And they thought it might be suppressed fire coming at him. What? Yeah. So there's a lot of weirdness to this story. Yeah, man. And the sniper apparently there's something weird with one of the snipers that came out. Trump always talks about him. I forget the guy's name. Ken Silva was telling us about that one sniper. But apparently he won't come out in public and say anything. People have accused him of weird things. Yeah, he's been very secretive. Yeah, that one's very spooky. You see Tucker Carlson's documentary on it? It's pretty good. All the Google Drive stuff that he had, the videos that he had on there and all the people he was talking to on YouTube comments and stuff like that. It's like, if you're the NSA, that's low hanging fruit. Right. Well, and this gets to the biggest issue. The government comes out and says something and you can't believe them because they come out and say, no social media footprint. The guy wasn't really doing anything. You know, he came out of nowhere and you realize, no, he's online being radicalized. We can watch it in real time. If Tucker Carlson can find it, you guys know it. So why haven't you told us about it? Right. And there's a lot in the Charlie Kirk case that way. Yeah. You know, there's a, there's a, there's an angle to this case that is so intriguing to me and I cannot wrap my head around it. It is this, this weirdness that everyone involved in this case seems to be somehow associated, I don't know what words you use on your show, but transportation of minors. It is, it is unbelievable. And the Charlie Kirk case? Yes. Yes. It is the judge. That's all he prosecuted. The, the, the cop that executed the first six search warrants, including for Tyler's phone, his computers and all that. That's the type of crimes that he investigated. I mean, you, and it, I don't want to start naming names, but I mean, you go down the list, it is pervasive in this case, absolutely pervasive. So when you start to ask where would a, you know, if Tyler was a patsy, where would he have come from? To me, there's your angle. He came from doing something online that he shouldn't have been doing or somebody close to him did. And it would have made an obvious entree to patsydom. Yeah. And then also that deposition of his furry boyfriend, what's his name again? Twigs? There's a video of him like doing a Skype call deposition. And he looks like he detransitioned, like he's talking like this. He looks manly. He looks manly. He looks like a, you know, like a frat dude or something like that. And then there was a, there was a media outfit out of Britain that, that got photos of him at a gas station or something, or maybe walking. I can't remember where he was. He's apparently he's living in Texas and, and some outfit got pictures. I can't remember which one daily mail or telegraph, one of those British regs. And they got pictures of who Lance Twigs. There's nothing feminine about him. Like he looks like a grown man. It's wild. See if you can find a photo, find like an updated photo of Lance Twigs. It's insane. See if you can find the photos of him at the, I think it's at a gas station. Gas station. Lance Twigs gas station. Punching on it. He looks like a normal. It looks like a normal guy. He looks creepy though. Yeah, he does, doesn't he? Yeah. He looks, I mean, to me, He either looks like a serial killer or like, you know, the lead guitarist in a metal band. Or, you know, but why, why limit yourself to one category? Oh, that's weird. Yeah. I mean, he's the most mysterious figure in the entire thing. Yeah. You know, I've heard different things from sources about the investigation into him. And things he was told by the FBI that he was and wasn't allowed to do. So it leads me to believe there's some Lance Twigs, Lance Twigs angle to this story that we're not being told. Hmm. Um, and another thing, we never really heard anything from Tyler Robinson's parents, right? Yeah. We got the story from, I don't remember where we got the story, but I remember hearing it early on that they turned him in and they basically said, or they got like a friend of the family to talk to him and then he confessed to his parents. What, what, do we know anything more about that? No, because they haven't said anything else. The parents haven't said anything. No, there was one search warrant that came out, I don't know, in the last few months. Uh, you know, they, they, they do these search warrants and they seal them for six or nine months. And that, and this one finally got unsealed and released. And the family friend, I think the guy's name's, last name's Mitchell. He's a former law enforcement officer. I think he lived in the area, somehow knew the family. And they talk about him coming over there. And he says that Tyler told X, Y, and Z to the parents. I don't know that the parents ever said to the law enforcement that Tyler told him anything. Hmm. There's all this attribution to the parents in the different search warrants and the probable cause statement and the probable cause affidavit, but there's no, um, there's no quote from them and there's no, our parents, the parents told us this. Yeah. Wouldn't they use that in court? Oh, it's slam dunk, slam dunk. You don't need text messages. You don't need a gun. There's no trial if you have that, right? Well, you might have a trial, but in terms of the probable cause hearing, you didn't need five days, just put mom up there and have mom say, yeah, he told me he did it. It's over. We're going to trial. This is like as reliable of an eyewitness as you can get, you know, no mom walks in here and voluntarily throws their son. I wonder if anyone's talked to them. You mean investigative parents? No, I don't know. Like friends of anyone who came out and said anything. I just imagine that like, if I'm the, if that's my kid and this whole thing is happening, like everyone got a Candace doing this, they got people debating, it's getting tens of millions of views online. I got to imagine it would be hard to stay silent unless I knew I had a gun to my head. Maybe I, I, I hear that a lot. Uh, I don't, I don't agree with that. And here's why, um, let's say Tyler was involved in this thing and, and, and his role is going to land him life in prison without parole. Anyway, he was the getaway driver. He supplied the gun, whatever it was. And the parents know this, let's just assume they know this. And I'm not stating anything as fact. I'm not hinting it at pure speculation. I'm just giving you a pretty believable scenario of why they would remain silent. If they're aware that he was involved in some capacity that could net him a life without sentence anyway, what advantage do you get coming out and saying he didn't do it? Because if you come out and say he didn't do it and they start investigating and they realize, oh, you're right. He didn't do it, but he did do this other thing. And this other thing is now what we're going to charge him. He's not charged with being an accessory. He's not charged with being a getaway driver. He's not charged with just supplying the gun. He's charged with disposing of evidence. That's not a life without parole. He's not charged with, um, you know, being aiding in some capacity. He's charged with doing it. And if you know, he didn't do it, what a great opportunity to keep your mouth shut, let it go to trial, let jeopardy attach and then prove he didn't do it. Right. And then, or, or let the prosecution fail to prove he did it. That's a good point. And now he walks home. Whereas if you come out and you make a spectacle, you're adding more charges to, to it, right? You're adding more potential charges. Yeah. If you encourage them, Hey, you should be looking at someone else. Well, that someone else may lead them back to a life without sentence for Tyler might as well just sit back and say, we know he didn't do it. So we trust the jury's not going to be able to figure out he did. And that's kind of my thinking. Yeah. Is that he might've told them, hey, look, here's what I did. And they're like, all right, shut up. You know, you don't say a word. We don't say a word. Everybody shuts up. Didn't he hire lawyers in like a different county or something? I think he tried to. Okay. I don't know whether he ever got in touch with that person. In the, I don't remember what filing it was. There was some filing that came out and he had told the local law enforcement that he intended to hire this lawyer back in his home county. But I don't know if he ever got in touch with that guy or not. Yeah. I remember there was a big, big thing to, there was a big confusion over like the date or something that he went to go. Yeah. That's still not settled. Hire a lawyer. Yeah. It's still not settled. And that seems to me to be something very easy to settle. There are tapes of him turning himself in. What time was that? Just release a still that has the time in the window. Show us what time he turned himself in. You notice when they had the preliminary hearing, they did release a little clip, a five or six second clip of him in the Washington County Sheriff's office, but it didn't have a timestamp on it. Yeah. So it doesn't go towards. They like zoomed in past the timestamp or something. Yeah. Yeah. Almost like you're, it looks to me, or I would say this, that's something you would do if you were trying to hide what time he turned himself in. Right. You know. As you get older, you start to realize that life insurance is one of those things you shouldn't keep putting off. Nobody wants to think about the worst case scenario but if your family depends on you, having coverage in place is one of the more responsible things you can do. And that's where Ethos makes the whole process super simple. Through Ethos, you can get a life insurance quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and get same day coverage, all 100% online. There's no medical exam, just answer a few simple health questions online. You can get up to $3 million in coverage and some policies are as low as 30 bucks a month. Ethos helps provide financial security by connecting you with coverage through its network of trusted carriers. It's something that only takes minutes of your time now but can really matter to those who need it down the road. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com slash Danny. That's spelled E-T-H-O-S dot com slash Danny. Application times may vary and rates may vary. I don't want to like tell you to jump to conclusions but like what is your, you've been putting a lot of different pieces together with this puzzle and trying to fill in the gaps the best you possibly can with your knowledge and your background and the legal system and all that. But like what is your best guess as to what happened to Charlie that day? Well, I can eliminate things that I think didn't happen. Right. So I don't think he was shot with a gun from the Losey Center. If he was, he was not shot with a.30-06. I think I can safely eliminate that. Was he shot with a low-powered round or a different type of round from another location? That's probably the next best option once you've eliminated.30-06 from the Losey Center roof. So next best available thing is he was shot from a smaller weapon with a lower caliber bullet. But again, a lot of the things that rule out the.30-06 are ruled out, rule out all gunshots because it's the shirt. I mean, his necklace flies up into his neck. His microphone's pulled over. His body doesn't go backwards. It comes forward. I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot that when you look at that, it doesn't look like a gunshot. And I, probably to my eternal harm to my soul, have watched a lot of people get shot as a result of this. As like doing research for it? I want to know what people look like when they get shot. None of them look like that. Nobody. You shoot somebody with a high-powered round, they go backwards. Yeah. They don't go forwards. Right. I mean, it only makes sense. Something arrives with 3,000 pounds of pressure or 2,000 pounds of force, you're not going to lean into it. It's going to knock you backwards. Right. You go, you go off. You're going to see an explosion out the back. A lot of times there's an exit wound. Particularly if they get winged in some sort of soft tissue, like the soft muscle of the shoulder, the neck. There's usually some, or even like the belly. Well, a great example, a great comparison would be the Matthew Crooks guy. Yeah. Right? Because he was shot with like a something wind mag or something. 300 wind mag. Which is very similar to a.30-06? It's a little more powerful, but similar. It's a.30-08 round. So similar in diameter. Flies maybe 10% faster. So, but very similar round. And that thing went in and that had multiple entry and exit wounds with him. It came in, I don't know if it came in his nostril, it came in somewhere in his face, exited kind of the lower part of his head, came back in, I think his shoulder, and then went down into his torso. I mean, it, you know, 16, 18 inches of penetration. Right. And we're told Charlie got a couple inches of penetration. Which is. And didn't come out. And that was about the same distance? Roughly. Roughly the same distance. Yeah. I mean, within 20, 30% of the same distance. Yeah. That's one of the weirdest things for sure. And I have seen some of those videos on YouTube of those guys like shooting things with.30-06s like watermelons and, you know, other things. Or cast iron skillets. I mean, things way harder. I mean, you can do this with your neck. It's soft. Right. It's only, you know, three, four inches. Right. It's not, it's not a cast iron, it's not six cast iron skillets, you know. And so I think that rules out some other gunshots as well. And then you get to, you know, some of the, I don't want to call them weird or more far out there, but people are stretching, trying to figure out what could possibly cause this. The exploding mic theory comes up a lot. Could he have had something rigged? And I use that kind of broadly. Could there have been something on his body rigged? Was he wearing a flat, like a vest, a bulletproof vest or a plate or something? I think the official story is no. Okay. Whether that's true, I don't know. But I think the official story is no, he was not. Okay. Because it did look like something was weird with his shirt when he was shooting. When he was sitting down. It looked like a, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Because I remember seeing a clip of him when he was throwing the hats. You could like see his torso through his shirt, like his belly and his chest. Oh yeah. You could see his belly when his shirt lifted up. You could see his nipples through his shirt. Right, exactly. Yeah. But yeah. So like how would he have a chance to put any kind of vest on before that? He wouldn't because he turned around and walked right under the tent. And it was like 16 or 17 minutes from the time he arrived to the time he was shot. Roughly. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of people have gone to Exploding Mike. You know, was there something rigged under his shirt or on his body that caused the injury? I think that's more believable than a.30-06 from the Losey Center. I don't know that I entirely believe that. What about the drone? Well, the drone's a gunshot. You know, it's kind of ruled out for the same reason all the other gunshots are ruled out. It reminded me of one of those things they kill cows with. You know, they shoot it in their neck or they shoot it in their head. Oh, those titanium rods? The titanium rods. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it reminded me of. Yeah. I mean, maybe. You know, there are a lot of people who. Because it just pours out. The blood just pours out. Yeah, I'll be interesting. There's a couple of people that have not been mentioned at all in the investigation that I'm curious if they'll be contacted by the defense or testify at trial as to the condition of the body. Obviously, the medical examiner's office will have a representative there, probably the Guajardo, the guy who did the medical examination. I'm curious if the funeral home director will show up because, you know, they go back through the body and they prep the body and they, you know, get it all ready to go. You know, it'd be interesting to hear from him. Did you notice anything on the neck? Did it feel like he was missing C2 to C7? You know, I mean, he deals with dead bodies all day. Does it feel normal? Right. Did it look normal? You know, what was the nature of the wound? Did it look deep enough? Did it look like a superficial cut? You know, what was that? And so I'd be interested to hear from that guy. I'd be interested to hear from other people in the hospital, not just the surgeon. I'm sure we're going to hear from Dr. Trotter. But what about the people standing around in that room with him? What did they see? What did they experience? So other people who had contact with the body, access to the body, who were not just the surgeon, not just the medical examiner. There's going to be a dozen or more people that I think had access to the body. And if the question comes down to, was he shot with a gunshot? I think other people would be able to weigh in on that. I don't think you have to just rely on the medical examiner's report. What shocked you particularly? Was there your podcast that you did with Joseph Scott Morgan with Julian Dory was fantastic. It felt like you were kind of, it felt like you were in the courtroom kind of grilling him at one point, which was great. But like, you know, with his background and, you know, being a forensic examiner and all that, what was, what was your biggest takeaway from, from talking to him? Because you guys went really deep into like the injuries, the procedures on a crime scene when somebody's murdered and you guys covered it from A to Z, but like, was there anything that really stuck out to you? Yeah. How much, how much the crime scene preservation should have been paramount in the moment and wasn't. You know, one of the things he kept coming back to, and I'm sure he kept getting annoyed by me asking, you know, did that fall below the standard? Yeah. But what I wanted to do, I mean, I had an expert. I had a chance to, to basically depose an expert witness. And, you know, a fact witness is going to testify what they saw, heard, smelled, felt, you know, you know, sensed. An expert witness is going to tell you more hypothetically the way things could have been or should have been. And this is a guy who would absolutely be allowed to be an expert witness in any courtroom on a front line. forensic examination. I mean, he teaches it. he's testified before. He is a professor in that. You know, he teaches the classes to police officers. He absolutely is qualified to do that. So what I wanted to get out of the interview was each step of the way, what did they do and what should have been done? You know, starting with Charlie goes down. In that first five seconds, what should they have done? You know, what should the security team have done under the table? Okay, now they're carrying him off. Should they have done that? What should they have done? But as soon as he's in the SUV and he's leaving, now we have a crime scene. Charlie's no longer there. The security team's no longer there. No longer are we worried about saving someone's life or tending to wounds. So at that point, what should happen? And it was really interesting how he would have approached it or how he thinks the officers there should have approached it versus what happened and how far below the standard that fell. I mean, you have people walking through the crime scene, they're moving chairs, they're moving tables. They're pulling stuff off the tent. They're, I mean, pouring water out. They ripped the cameras down and pulled the SD cards out immediately. Yeah, yeah. And then now you go to the hospital. So at the hospital, from a crime scene investigation perspective, what should have been done? What items on Charlie's body should have been preserved? Okay, well, and I thought his answer was great. Anything that was on his body when he got shot or when whatever happened to him. Okay, so the microphone he's holding, the microphone on his shirt, his shirt, his underwear. He's holding a microphone. He's holding a microphone on his shirt. His jeans, his socks, his shoes, anything. Anything in his possession, in his immediate domain around him should have been preserved. Now, we will find out how much of that was preserved. We know that- Yeah, he said even the chair, right? Even the chair. Even the stand that the chair was on. The table around the chair. All that should be in evidence somewhere. The tent, that should be in evidence somewhere. And it'll be interesting to me as the investigation unfolds, as we get through trial, is that stuff available? Mm-hmm. And one of the things he said is you can't go back and recreate it because they've paved over it. They've changed the topography of the soil. It's no longer the same facility it was the second he was there. So even if you go back and you put the same tables, the same chair, the same stand, you're going to get a different angle. You're going to- So this is a common thing that they do is try to recreate the crime scene. Yeah, and you can't. And now it's impossible. It's impossible. Why did they do that to the soil there? No, I don't know. I mean- Where they put pavers on top? Yeah. They removed, I think, eight or 10 inches of soil, they said. And then put, I guess, one foot by one foot concrete pavers. Yeah. It looks like maybe 15 or 20 feet. Did they give a reason for that? No. Did they have to explain it? No. No. No. I mean, they've not given a reason I've seen. Yeah. Other than we're just changing it. And you can come up with reasons why they might have. Perhaps it's a biohazard. You've got a man's blood all over the place. You're going to have students walking around. Maybe- Maybe they'd always wanted to change it, but never had it in the budget or never had a reason to do it. There was no impetus to change it. But it's an outdoor amphitheater. It makes more sense to me to have concrete down than have people walking around on grass if you're setting up some sort of an event. There's any number of reasons they could have done it. But the reality is once he was taken down in that facility, until the investigation is complete, and maybe the investigation was complete, and that's a possibility. Maybe the police had said, well, we've done everything we can do here. We brought in our tools. We measured everything. We've got all the pictures we need. Back over to you guys. Do whatever you want. But it seems weird. If you're looking for a conspiratorial angle, literally covering up the crime scene is a massive conspiracy. It's where we get the term cover-up. It's a cover-up. They covered up the crime scene. Right. And what about all the other camera angles? What about them? Because didn't they have a bunch of other camera angles that have never been released? Yeah. So do they give that to the court? Or how does that work? There was a bunch of footage given over to the prosecution or to the government. Whether it was all of it, we don't know. One of the cameras, I think they gave like 26 minutes from two or three cameras. And one of the cameras, they only gave 23 minutes. And I don't know if that's because that camera didn't start recording at the same time or what. But there was one of the three or four cameras, maybe five cameras they turned over. One of them seemed to be two or three minutes shorter, if I remember. But I don't know why. Mm-hmm. And yeah, another thing that I was shocked about on that podcast that you did was how quick they got him from the hospital on the airplane to where they ship him to Arizona or something like that to have him put in the coffin and do all that for the funeral. Yeah. That was one of the things that initially really shocked me was how fast the autopsy was done. Mm-hmm. And I'm glad I had that conversation with Joseph Scott Morgan on Julian Dory's show. Yeah. Because he kind of went through step-by-step and almost excruciating detail on what should have been done to have a reasonably sufficient autopsy and then kind of put a timestamp on each one. And his conclusion was, I think, three to four, maybe four and a half hours would have been sufficient. And so, you know, it could have been done as early as, say, 1 or 1.30 in the morning. And then Charlie's transported back somewhere to be put in a suit, cleaned up, makeup, presentable, put in a coffin. And ready for the family to come in and visit. Mm-hmm. From there, he then went back to the airport and got on Air Force Two, and they flew him to Phoenix. Yeah. It's so strange. And Erica has the necklace now, which should be in evidence. I am 100% convinced that should be in evidence. I think it is disputable whether she's actually wearing that exact necklace. Oh, interesting. I think there's some debate to be had there. I have a lot of interest in that necklace based on pictures I've seen of her. So you think it's possible they have the original one in evidence and she's wearing a copy of it? Or it's possible it's in a landfill somewhere at the bottom of a lake. Oh, my God. What would the necklace tell us? Well, we don't know. I mean, I'm still trying to figure out how he died. And the necklace, pieces of the necklace were right around the wound. That's true, yeah. Did they go in the wound? Did they cause the wound? Right, right, right, right. Yeah. And you could have residue from like the, I don't know, gunpowder. I don't know what I'm talking about. It could be anything on that necklace. But again, going back to Joseph Scott Morgan, an expert in forensics, it was on his body. It should be in evidence. It should not be. And I think I'm telling this story correctly. I know he's so happy, so I don't want to put words in his mouth that aren't true, but I think I'm telling this correctly. Somebody refused a direct order, like, hey, we need the necklace. Oh, that's his necklace. We need it. And he said, no, I'm not giving it to a police officer. And the guy was like, no, I'm not giving it to you. I'm giving it to his wife. No way. Yeah. Refused to give it to a police officer. That's my recollection. Yeah. And this is one of the people at the company, the TPUSA organization. Affiliated, yeah. Jesus, dude. And so, you know, it raises the question of why. Why is the necklace of so much interest? Because supposedly she was calling, asking about the necklace, and then now she wants the necklace. Really? Oh, yeah. And Charlie was not known for the, and she kept holding the necklace out the window. You know, Charlie was not known for the necklace. I didn't even know he wore a necklace. And, you know, if you're looking for something emblematic of Charlie, maybe a microphone, maybe a Bible, I don't know, but a necklace that nobody even saw because it was always under his shirt. And it doesn't make sense to me. There's something about that necklace that's intriguing. And as far as the medical exam goes, so they said that the inside of his neck was completely obliterated. Like all of the, all of the vertebrae were like destroyed and they found bullet, they claimed that they found bullet fragments in the neck, right? So to back up, the neck completely obliterated. It's a, that's a big claim. The left side from C2 to C7, they said was completely obliterated. The vertebrae. They said the spinal cord from that same region was traumatically absent. They said the strap muscles, the jugular, the whatever the artery is that goes up, the carotid artery, that those were damaged. And, and maybe some of the, the harder soft tissue in the middle of the neck as well. So it's, you know, that's a lot of injury, but if even a gunshot to the neck would cause a lot of injury, would it cause the injury? Those precise injuries. I think experts are going to have to weigh in on that. I don't think armchair medical examiners can, can figure that out, but it, it, it seems like a tremendous amount of damage. That's why I'm curious about other people who saw the body. Are those injuries consistent with what you guys saw? As for the fragments, I think they said they pulled seven fragments from his body. I think only four made it to be forensically examined by the feds. I don't know where the other three were. I don't know where the other three went. Um, the lady testified that she got an envelope with four fragments in it, but the documents said there were seven pulled. So we don't know where the other three are and, and, and what they are bullet fragments. I, I, I mean, I take it at face value that they are, but I haven't looked at them. Right. I don't, I don't know what they are. It is so weird how it's, it's, how would you get so many people to be able to comply with such a big lie? I don't know that you would need that many people. I don't know. You would need the people in the medical examiner's office, right? a medical examiner on board. You would definitely need the person in Timpanogos Hospital who received him on board. I don't think you could pull off something without at least those two. And which one of those people was on Google Trends for being searched? Both. Okay. Both. Now, the medical examiner, Deidre Amaro was, she's the chief, she was the chief medical examiner for Utah. Because that's definitely one of the top people you'd want to have in the know if you're going to do this. But she's not the one who conducted the medical examination. It was a guy named Guajardo who no longer works in Utah either. I think both of them are now gone. He is in New York somewhere. And what's interesting about him is his wife is into the furry scene. Yeah. So there's so much sexual perversion that surrounds this case. It's uncanny. Yeah. If it was exactly what they told us, they couldn't have got more unlucky with all of the other details that people have noticed about this thing. That's correct. You know? Yeah. But like, sometimes I wonder on all of the events like this that have gone down, I don't know if there's any that have been so well documented. What do you mean by that? Like how everyone's hyper-analyzing. Oh, yeah. Every single person's. Eye movement, what they do with their hands, where they're looking, exactly what they did. Like, I can't remember in my lifetime an event that's been so hyper-analyzed the way this one has. I don't think there's ever been a case like this. I mean, it's a very high profile assassination. We don't get those very often, thankfully. That doesn't happen a lot. And it happened in broad daylight in front of a bunch of cameras and microphones. That doesn't happen a lot either. And it happened under fairly suspicious circumstances. Meaning, as you said, you know, let's just take George Zinn, the guy, you know, 70-something-year-old man. Oh, he's the guy that jumped up and started flailing? Yeah. And saying, I did it, I did it. I forgot about him. Yeah. What are the odds? You know? And then he goes to the hospital and a police officer says, you know, by doing that, you might've caused precious resources to be devoted to you, letting the actual person get away. He said, I know that was my plan. He said that? Yeah. Yes. Yes, that was my plan. Now, I look at that and say, plan, you came up, did you come up with this plan in two seconds? Because it was about two or three seconds afterwards that you jumped up and started doing this. To me, plan means something you came in that day intending to do. You knew it was going to happen. You knew you were going to jump up and take credit. That's what plan sounds like to me. Plan doesn't sound like something you just come up with on the spot. You wouldn't say that was my plan. You'd say, yeah, that's what I was doing. Where's that guy now? Jail. He had child, he had CSAM material on his phone. Wow. Yeah. Again, another connection to the story. Thank God, dude. Every, it seems like everyone connected to the story has something to do with young people. This is fucking reeks. Yeah. Have you talked to anybody at the TPUSA organization who's like, I would imagine there's people that are in there that are probably super frustrated and skeptical of the whole thing, but they don't want to speak out. They don't want to speak out for fear of whatever, losing their job or I can imagine being sued or something. They fired a bunch of people trying to get rid of sources. And they've succeeded. They fired people trying to get rid of sources. Yeah. People leaking stuff out of TPUSA. Oh, wow. I mean, they fired, I don't want to put a number on it, but a lot of people since he died and have rehired a whole bunch of new people. They've not gotten rid of every source. But yeah, there are a lot of people in there who are skeptical. Very skeptical. Have any of them reached out to you? Yeah. What are they saying? They're skeptical. Anything specific? I don't want to go into that. No juicy details? No. I mean, no. I just, people don't believe Tyler Robinson did it. Yeah. And they don't believe that the people at TPUSA are acting right. Mm-hmm. That they're acting as if something is being covered up. Mm-hmm. Whether or not that's true, I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying that, but that's the suspicion from some of the people in there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Football is back, bitch. And PrizePix is starting off the season with their biggest offer yet. I've been using PrizePix because it makes daily fantasy incredibly simple. You pick two to six players, choose more or less on projections like passing yards, rushing yards, or fantasy score, build your lineup, and you're done. And PrizePix is promoting their stacked September, which means new promos throughout the month, including guaranteed picks on Sundays, profit boosts, and daily discounts. You can build your lineup off of players you already know. And PrizePix is now available nationwide. 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So there's a lot that we still don't know about it, because TPUSA won't just come out and claim it. If they come out and claim it, they'd say, yes, it's real. Here's what time it was sent. Here's who it was sent to. But they won't do that, or for whatever reason, they haven't done that. How else would Andrew Wilson get it? Oh, he said he got it from them. Yeah. So it's. I mean, I don't believe much of what he says. Yeah. I mean, it's probably a safe bet that they coached him for that debate, right? Or they had a part in sort of. Because he went there to their headquarters and met with them. So I'm sure he had lots of communication with them, and I'm sure that they greenlit him to bring that up during the debate. It's. I think that's a safe assumption. That's just a reasonable assumption. I think it's a reasonable assumption. I'm not ruling out that other organizations aren't helping him in his efforts to go after Candace and others. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, I. Candace. Candace has a lot of enemies. Oh, yeah. And there are a lot of people who have attacked her over the years relentlessly. Yeah, yeah. Any one of those groups could say, hey, let's exploit this. Let's go get this guy. He's a bulldog, and send him after her. So I wouldn't limit it to just TPUSA, but I doubt he's just organically decided this is the fight he wants to fight. Mm-hmm. I think there's probably more to it. Yeah, one of the things that you were saying, which I found very interesting, was that you were equating TPUSA with, like, just any one of these other big NGO think tanks that are out there doing these things. That's all they've become. The biggest difference is you've got, like, a YouTube celebrity leading the charge of it, right? So people think of Charlie Kirk, and he's the face of it, but, like, behind the scenes, you have this whole machine. Yeah, and that's the case. That's absolutely the case. You're not going to end up with $100 million of donations, or $80 million, or whatever he was getting his last couple years. You're not going to end up with that many tens of millions. You're not going to end up with millions of dollars of donations by accident. I mean, there's a plan in place. Somebody's investing in you, and when they invest in you, there's some narrative they're looking for. You need to carry that water, or the money's not going to be there next time. And, you know, he's hiring out an organization. I think they had 700 or 800 employees at one point. That's a lot of responsibility, and he's traveling to all these college campuses. When Charlie was alive, it was a college—the branding was, dedicated to the youth. This is a college-oriented organization. We're going out trying to change the hearts and minds of college students. Since Charlie's passed, it seems like they've kind of gotten out of that business. They may play lip service to it by doing a few college events here and there, but they're doing very few. Now they're doing church events. Now they're doing events for old people. I mean, you look at the pictures for most of their events, it looks like God's waiting room. I mean, it's just a bunch of senior citizens sitting around. Yeah. Yeah. So— - Do you think when he first started, well, first of all, Paul, what was your view of TPUSA and Charlie Clark before all this happened? I was not the biggest fan of TPUSA at all because I viewed them as just sort of a – I strongly disagreed with their stated foreign policy positions relative to the Middle East in particular. Charlie, I viewed as an extension of that, that he was just there to promote a particular Middle Eastern country. And it just seemed like for years that was the case. Did you get the sense he was genuine? I did. I mean, I could take or leave him. I didn't want any harm to befall him. I didn't want anything bad to happen to him. But I was never a massive Charlie Kirk fan. Right, right. But the last year or two, he had started to moderate on some of those positions. He sort of started coming around my way on some of those positions. And he hadn't made the full public turn. It sounds like privately he had kind of made the public turn. He hadn't made the full turn. That PBD podcast moment was – Was pretty stellar. Yeah. I mean, it was pretty stellar. I was – I'm right there with you, Charlie. I remember Julian sent me that as soon as it came out. I was like, holy shit. It was shocking because it was him. He had been so pro-Israel for so long. And all of a sudden, he's like, hey, wait a minute. Maybe something they're doing is not right. Even just an admission that, hey, maybe something they're doing is not right. Oh, this is a new Charlie. But publicly, he still pretty much was carrying the water all the time. When he passed, it was so gruesome. And I didn't think he was a bad person. And, you know, I'm a father. I'm a husband. Nobody should be taken down like that. You know, I immediately felt an emotional connection I never thought I would feel with him. And I remember saying that on my first show I covered it. I said that exact thing that, you know, I wasn't his biggest fan. I probably wouldn't have gone. I wouldn't have gone out of my way to meet him. But the reality is when he died, I got an emotional tug because nobody needs to go out like that. You don't get hunted down like a dog for speaking. You don't get hunted down like a dog for your political positions. We shouldn't be that kind of place. And, you know, but prior to that, I was not with the – I mean, you know, that's not my brand of conservatism, what they promote. But prior to that, I was not with the – I mean, you know, that's not my brand of conservatism, what they promote. Do you think that – like, so when the whole thing started with him and TPUSA, do you think that they just kind of like saw this rising talent and found an opportunity to recruit him to sort of like take on their cause and, you know, carry water for whatever – you know, these billionaires that are behind the scene of TPUSA, like they obviously have these issues that they really care about? And do you think it's possible that they just saw like an opportunity with him, like this guy has a chance to become a star or whatever you want to say, and we can put the money behind him with the marketing and all that stuff to really make it happen and just sort of like push him in this direction, but not like straight up say, hey, you need to carry these topics forward? No. No, I think if you go back to the founding of TPUSA, it was in 2012. It was on the heels of the Tea Party movement, even turning point, TPUSA sounds a lot like Tea Party. College students were the one demographic who hated the Tea Party. You know, middle-aged white people loved the Tea Party, huge proponents of the Tea Party. Large proportions of middle America were big in the Tea Party, but that – economic libertarianism, small government movement never made its way down to college campuses. They were embarrassed by the Tea Party. It had single-digit approval ratings on college campuses. And I do think there was a global – sort of the – people realized where the Republican Party was going, more of an economic liberty-type party. But you couldn't get there without the college students. And so I think there was somebody – I don't think it was organic. I don't think it was an accident. Charlie's giving a speech on a small college campus in Illinois. Some 72-year-old man just happens to see him and think, "Oh, he's the future. I need to convince him not to go to college and drive around the country and rent hotel rooms with me." I mean, that's really creepy. I wouldn't let my 18-year-old do that with a 72-year-old man. Wait, that happened? Yeah, that's the founding of TPUSA. That's how it started. A guy named Bill Montgomery supposedly discovered Charlie while giving a speech. Charlie was still in high school. While giving a speech on a college campus, that's – and he just was taken by Charlie. It was like an eight-minute speech. And he was supposedly so taken by Charlie, he went to him and said, "You can't go to college. You've got to go on the road with me. We're going to found an organization." That's the official story, and I just don't buy that story. I don't believe that story. I think it's – I think it's a fairytale sold because people will buy it. I don't think that's at all what happened. This is the guy? Yeah, that's Bill Montgomery. Yeah. He's dead now. American businessman and conservative political advocate in 2012 co-founded the conservative political organization, Turning Point USA, alongside Charlie Kirk. Montgomery became Kirk's mentor and worked behind the scenes during the organization's early formation and died due to complications of COVID-19. So what do you think really happened? How do you think it really started? I mean, if I had to guess, I don't know. If I had to guess, I would say, yeah. I would say Bill Montgomery was in some group that was looking for a figurehead, a young person to go to college campuses, and they probably looked at several different characters, maybe approached half a dozen or more of them, and Charlie, for whatever reason, agreed to do it. That's the best I can tell, or somebody identified Charlie and he was targeted, but it doesn't seem organic. I don't buy that story. I don't buy it at all. I always, I have to say, and this is, I think this is just me, and like, I think, because I just probably grew up in a very unique environment in Florida, but like, whenever somebody is so young and so just like politically ambitious, I always get skeptical. Yeah. And again, that's just probably my bias on how I grew up, but like him, Nick Fuentes, there's other people like him that just are so sharp on this stuff. Yeah. And it's just, for me, I'm just like, how did you grow up? Yeah. How do you know all this shit? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, for several years, that was what TPUSA was. Yeah. From like maybe 2012 to 2018 or '19, that's what they did. They went around on college campuses and tried to convince kids that big government sucks, that economic libertarianism is a superior economic philosophy, and it would lead to the betterment of humanity. And then by 2018 or 2019, their fundraising is kind of in a rut. They're making a little bit of money, they're not making a lot. Charlie's still living on his parents' couch, basically. And that's when the money starts rolling in. But the major transition was they decided to go into foreign policy, and they decided to start supporting pro-Israeli causes. And all of a sudden, the fundraising just hockey sticks, and they just shoot off. Yeah. And he's the darling of everything. And you look at the timeline, you look at the 14 years he was there, 13 years he was there, that's sort of it in a nutshell. And when was that PBD thing? That was right after October 7th, when he said that on PBD's podcast, that he thinks that they knew about it? A week or two later, yeah. A week or two later. October of '23. So that was in 2023, right after that happened. Yeah. And I've heard stories that he often went to the White House to tell Trump to urge him not to do the Iran stuff. Yeah. That's, I think, pretty accepted by now, that that happened. So he was very outspoken, like, "Don't do the Iran war, don't get involved in the Middle East anymore," after 2023. Right. And then you had the TPUSA thing in Tampa with Tucker and Dave Smith, where he destroyed that Josh Hammer guy in that so-called debate. Right. And then, you know, Dave Smith came out and said that his conversation with Charlie backstage was like, you know, "Have you read this book?" "Yeah." "Have you read this book?" "Yeah." He's like, "So you know what's going on, right?" And then he said, like, Charlie just kind of, like, grinned and, like, laughed. Right. Which was very, you know, very telling. Well, and he had, he had Megyn Kelly, who was not huge on, on the TPUSA foreign policy. He had Tucker Carlson, who wasn't, you know, who kind of opposed the TPUSA foreign policy. So he was bringing these people in. And then, you know, a day came. Yeah. And then, you know, a day before he dies, he says, "I'm bringing Candace Owens back." And. Oh, he said that the day before. Yeah. And we know where she stands on that issue. So, you know, he had, he had begun behind the scenes turning on this issue. What I wonder is, had he just turned on it publicly, would he still be alive? Because if he had come out and said, "Hey, I am afraid these people are going to kill me." You know, remember Harrison Smith released that tweet in August? Yeah. And it's. What was that tweet again? It's like Charlie's, you know, I heard from a source close to Charlie that he's afraid if he turns on Israel, they're going to kill him. Had he said that publicly, you know, I'm turning, I'm having second thoughts, I'm afraid they're going to kill me if I turn on them. Yeah. Had he then come out publicly and said, "I'm leaving the car. pause i'm done and then dies the next day right who's everybody gonna think did it right yeah that's a good point and so he might still be alive if he did just said it out loud that's why i encourage people to hide in public you know you got an opinion say it you were talking on one of your recent streams about something happened in july that you think kind of like sealed his fate yeah the student action summit what was that the student action summit what was that dave smith megan kelly tucker carlson oh that was the thing in tampa yeah that was the summer before he died june july somewhere in there um it seems like that's when all the google searches start ramping up june and july it seems like that's when um a lot of behind the scenes weirdness and meetings are taking place you start seeing planes going different places that they hadn't historically gone um it seems like that's when the decision was made you know we'll keep trying to get them over but we're gonna have a backup plan in case he doesn't do you think it's possible that they tried to take him out before this yeah really yeah again had they not succeeded that day we wouldn't know right and that's the that's like the other thing for me that's just hard to wrap my mind around is there's so many other ways to take out charlie than this public spectacle yeah you know it seemed like did they do that it seems like if you wanted to do it you wanted it to be that way right because if you were like an assassin you usually want to take people out like in private so people can't see it and you don't have the whole world picking apart everything that happened it seems like that'd be a more a better more optimal way to conduct this well like i think andrew breitbart was probably murdered i don't think he had a heart attack at 42 walking home from a bar um but that was private that was behind the scenes i think seth rich was probably murdered um you know and a political hit but that was private that was behind the scenes why make the decision with charlie kirk to do it so publicly let's assume it was a conspiracy to to take it away from him i don't think it was a conspiracy to take it away from him let's assume it was a conspiracy to take him out it sends a message that the other types of killings didn't send you know killing someone will silence them sure but but if you want to kick off a political revolution on the back of the killing it needs to be emotional it needs to be devastating you know hey charlie kirk died in his sleep is not very motivating you know you don't you don't go you know passing laws and signing executive orders and rounding up leftist groups and you know rallying the base around uh a war in iran if if charlie kirk dies in his sleep or falls down the stairs while he's you know walking into his house that that doesn't really get it um being shot in the neck in front of 3 000 people and a bunch of rolling cameras that sends a message that wasn't sent with seth rich or andrew brightboard so do you think they were banking on convincing people that the left was behind it yeah yeah yeah i mean the guy's asking a question about trans violence at the time a guy on the roof is firing around and he lives with a trans guy and we'll just take it face value that he was trans because again we see no evidence of it we're just taking it at face value that this kid was trans i don't know yeah think about if tyler had died if tyler had not turned himself in if he'd been gunned down in a police shootout or he had killed himself in the woods somewhere or in the desert somewhere i don't think you and i are sitting here talking about it over a year later i don't think anybody's talking about it more in a few days afterwards i think we all pretty much accept the story and move on the fact that he turns oh yeah the fact that he turns himself in keeps the investigation going now the prosecution has to produce evidence now people have to account for their whereabouts where were you yeah you know this opens up a whole investigation that would not have happened i wonder i've strongly considered that tyler robinson was supposed to take the blame and not survive and that he was supposed to be taken out in a hail of gunfight or by suicide before he turned himself in and just tidy it up right yeah the the inconsistencies around him are very perplexing well at that point you know well go ahead i was gonna say like the biggest thing to me that i've heard is that like why would you go hire a lawyer to plead the fifth and simultaneously confess on a public discourse chat the confessions are so bananas you know he says i intended to take this to my grave you're driving home you're about to see this guy face to face why are you leaving an electronic record of every aspect of this case it was my granddad's gun i'm not sure it had a serial number actually it won't come back to me uh i left it here i i mean every single thing that you would need to nail down in order to convince people he did it he's supposedly confessing to on text and then just to make sure nobody forgot i'm going to leave a handwritten note before i leave pre-confessing to it that's something i might not even end up doing i'm still going to pre-confess to it and just in case both of those get lost i'm going to get on a public discord chat or two right and confess to absolutely anybody with a url link for all of eternity i mean it is it is that is one of the most nonsensical parts of this entire story no one does that no one does that what political assassin has ever turned himself in i don't think any of us they have to go catch them yeah don't just walk in and say yeah i guess i did it you know um what is the story with the egyptian planes i don't know that's not serious yeah i don't i don't know um it's not a story i followed closely i covered it a couple of times there was an egyptian plane on the tarmac that day um that seems to fly with egyptian intelligence um that a lot of people suspect that it was a plane that was flying on the tarmac that day um that seems to fly with egyptian intelligence um that seems to fly on the tarmac that day um that seems to fly on the tarmac might also carry intelligence services for other countries so the tarmac where provo utah right so close yeah close um i mean it's the airport you would fly into to go to uvu or you could fly in a salt lake but salt lake's like 45 minutes or an hour away provo's 10 or 15 minutes away and provo can handle big jets i mean it's a real airport there was an egyptian plane on the tarmac and there was one that left earlier that morning um did they have anything to do with it i don't know the weird thing about the tarmac is that it's a real airport it's a real airport it's a real airport the egyptian plane that was on the tarmac is it kept powering up at different times during the day you could see its transponder come on really yeah while it was sitting on the tarmac yeah three or four different times and there was actually some aerial photography that was being done that day like some survey photography for roofing companies and it flew over the airport and you can see the the um stairs are down you can see the plane is on and i think of a plane are we talking i think a gulfstream four okay yeah so a normal executive jet okay um but it powers up it powers up uh when planes are landing in certain locations it powers up when certain key things are happening during the day could be a coincidence um the whole egyptian plane um that's it right there bnd um you know the the claims that this egyptian plane is following erica around or following charlie around i've not investigated that i don't know if there's any merit to that or not i can only do too many things at a time i mean i get i get hate mail from people who are like i've sent you nine emails and you will not investigate my claim and i'm like i am one guy yeah you know i have one research uh person that works with me and i have my sister who runs merch and sort of does the business side like i i'm not a big operation right i cannot run down every lead every name that's mentioned it i can't possibly do it uh are you in kentucky tennessee tennessee okay yeah tennessee uh just south of nashville okay that's like podcaster heaven man tennessee is yeah there's so many podcasters there really yeah i didn't know that canis owens there uh daily wire moved their operation there doesn't uh uh theo vaughn live yeah that's crazy um jason whitlock a sports uh sports podcaster he lives there um there's a bunch man there's a lot of podcasters in that area no income tax easy airport to get in and out of yeah um a decent nightlife if you're into that it's like austin 2.0 now austin's nashville 2.0 austin's nashville 2.0 yeah yeah yeah i'm not a huge fan of austin i'm not either i'm not either um i don't know why people live there and i'm not trying to alienate anyone in austin listening but i just don't understand the draw yeah um it's hot um very hot it's hot it's a it's a rabid left-wing government you know and tagged them for a billion dollars you know you're gonna get on airwaves in austin and and start spouting off yeah that's crazy i'll take my chances in middle tennessee yeah we got a little more conservative jury pool yeah yeah tennessee's a cool place lots of cool history in tennessee all the music and stuff like that tennessee and kentucky i grew up there uh in middle tennessee it's a totally different place today i mean the whole broadway scene didn't exist it was like pawn shops and porn stars i mean it were porn shops it was like yeah it was not bars and all that there were a couple of bars downtown but right uh nashville was a small town 30 years ago yeah it's grown up that's incredible i haven't been there in years yeah i remember when the titans came i thought why are the titans coming to little bitty nashville so that's funny man um so yeah so the egyptian planes thing the weird thing about that is like the planes were there and you also found the the google trend searches happening in uh egypt which is very odd well these Egyptian planes tend to leave Egypt, right before things happen in Israel. Like a few days, maybe a week before October 7th, they leave. Oh, really? Yeah. So there's some working relationship that I suspect between the two countries. And maybe they have a very close, you know, travel, a mutually agreed travel arrangement. I don't know. But they do tend to leave at key times or just before key times. Right. Yeah. So you got into all this stuff from being, like, you started out as a lawyer, right? Yeah. And you were doing, you became like an expert, a legal expert in HIV. Yeah. So I've done a lot of stuff as a lawyer. I started out in civil trials working for insurance companies on the defense side. So car wrecks, slip and fall, that kind of stuff, you know, smaller stuff. Although some of the car wrecks got pretty big. And then from there, I went to work for a bank. From there, I went to work for a medical malpractice defense firm. While I was at the medical malpractice defense firm, I sort of happened upon this HIV science. And I kept thinking, man, there's an application here in criminal defense. You know, there just is. And while I was there, there was a woman charged in Florida with having sex with somebody while being HIV positive and failing to disclose it, which in Florida is a big felony. Really? Yeah. And she was facing 30 years in prison. And MSNBC was camped outside of her house. I think HBO, they had some news show at the time, did a piece on it. It got a lot of news coverage. I saw it in the newspaper. And I just reached out to her lawyer and I was like, hey, I don't know if you're open to defenses, but I think I have one that's pretty creative that I know they're not going to see coming. He was like, come meet me. I was living in Boca Raton at the time and I drove up to Florida, or to Kissimmee, where he was. And we sat down and chatted and he was like, I love it. Let's do it. So we- Yeah, we rolled it out. It was wildly successful that day. How many cases happen like that where somebody's- Really? It used to be a lot more. A lot of states are getting away from charging it. I don't know if it's because of the work we did or not, but there were a lot, man. I think at one point I had 50 or something, 50 or so active cases, and I could not have been the other lawyer, only lawyer in the country that was doing this. Yeah. It was very heavily charged in the military. So I ended up with a lot of military cases where I'd come in as the civilian lawyer. You're on a team of military lawyers. But yeah- Why in the military? Because it was an easy not following orders charge, and they were charging it as assault. And so it was under the UCMJ. There were two pretty quick, easy convictions to get a problem. I mean, if you're the military, you don't want an HIV person in service. You got to pay for it. Right. So any excuse to move on, sever ties, you'll take it. Right, right. And so it's- Yeah, it became the sole focus of my practice for, I'd say, four or five years. Deposed a lot of experts, went to trial with a lot of experts, learned a lot about it, had to learn how to adjust. As the prosecutions started picking up on the defense and interest groups were coming in, training them up for how to defend cases or how to prosecute cases I was defending, it became much more of a chess match. And then chess playing checkers. It was an interesting time in my life. So what went down with that lady who was in Kissimmee? She got probation. They were totally unprepared to try the case. And they offered us a deal where they would give her, I think, six months of probation. She was facing, again, 30 years in prison. They were going for the max. And they gave her- For just not saying anything to the guy. Yeah. Did the guy get AIDS? No. No. We called it seroconversion. She's still, even though he didn't get it, she could still go to prison. Yeah. I mean, if I shoot at you and I don't kill you, I can still go to prison. That's a good point. You know? So I understand the generic basis of the charge. But the reality is, one of the things I learned in doing- Oh, so going back to her real quick. Let me finish that, put a tail on that. She ended up getting, I think, a six-month probation deal. But they kind of said, hey, look, as long as she'll take this HIV awareness class- We're going to terminate her probation when she finishes it. That class is available Friday. And this was Monday. They're like, she'll basically serve five days of probation. Wow. Take the deal. So she took the deal. We told her they were offering it. And she was like, yes, yes, yes. That's a damn good deal. And I have no idea where she is today. I've never looked her up again. I have no idea what became of her. But yeah, no, it's- So the idea behind it is, if you have herpes or something that's pretty easy to catch, and you have sex with somebody and you don't tell them, then you're basically subjecting them to a pretty high likelihood they're going to end up with it. Whereas what I learned with HIV is it's a very difficult disease to transmit sexually. Increasingly, it seems like every study finds it increasingly more difficult to transmit sexually. Really? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't want to say impossible. Right. But almost impossible. Almost impossible. You know, and under those circumstances, does this law make sense? Should it be considered like shooting at someone? Or should it be considered like having herpes and having sex with someone? You know, if there's a four in 10 chance that they get herpes, but a one in 5,000 chance they get HIV, is that a sufficient comparison that we should be treating them the same? Is the law applicable to other STDs as well? Yeah. Most states. Most states. Yeah. It's just never charged. It's never charged. Yeah. I mean, sometimes they'll charge it, but rarely do they charge it on other diseases. So if it is so rare, if it's one in 10,000 to transmit HIV sexually, why is that law still in effect? Just public perception is not caught up with the science. And so, I mean, are you going to be the guy to sponsor the bill to repeal that? You know? Yeah. If you follow politics at all, that's not going to be a very popular position. We'd like to put more people at risk. The reality is, though— I mean, it's not as crazy as the FBI director coming out and saying bestiality is not— What was he saying? He's like, if you commit bestiality, that means you're a victim. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that. I was like, is the German shepherd the aggressor? What's going on here? No, but I mean, a politician's just not going to come out in all likelihood and sponsor the bill to repeal that law. And so the laws are going to be on the books, and it's going to be up to prosecutors whether or not they want to charge it. And some of them do, some of them don't. But some states have gotten away from it. I don't want to name a state in particular. I've got one in mind, but I don't know if it's the right one, and I don't want to say the right state or the wrong state. But I know one state got away from it, took it off the books. And their reasoning was a little different, not that it was hard to catch. But who are we trying to protect? What values are we trying to promote? Are we trying to promote extramarital sex, you know, indiscriminate sex with anyone and everyone? If so, yeah, keep the law on the books. But if we're— You know, laws should be— They should be based in some sort of morality. And the morality probably should be, you know, if you have sex and you don't know the person you're having sex with, buyer beware, you know? So I know one state got away from it, but— So do people like her typically get off like that? That's an unfortunate choice of words there. Yeah, I mean, no, it's usually a pretty slam-dunk conviction. We gave some people headaches for— Really? Yeah. Yeah, because what they do is they just walk in with a test and like, look, she's positive. And the jury goes, oh, she's positive. And they move on. Whereas we actually challenged the test. So, yeah, how does—walk me through how you did that. So one of the things we had to do was order every HIV test kit on the market so that we could get the test kit insert, the FDA-approved test kit insert, and look at it and actually see what it said. And so I basically read them all, memorized huge chunks of these things. So no matter what test— No matter what test popped up in any given case, I knew what it was going to say, or I could at least really quickly refresh myself what it was going to say. They all basically—again, this has been 10 years or more, but they all basically said the same thing. A positive isn't really a positive. It is a presumptive positive. And that presumption needs to be correlated clinically by a physician. And so if a physician does not make a diagnosis, the test makes no claim. The test is just a presumption. Okay. Hey, doc, these antibodies are here. You should look and see if they look like they— Like a COVID test. A COVID test. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it sort of operates the same way. Right. It's looking for presence of antibodies that respond to certain proteins. Yeah. Because it's just a very small proxy as far as potential. Like, yes, this is here. It's very likely, or it's within some percentage that you could have this. Yeah. And one of the things that every test said was look at all the different things that could cause a false positive. And most of them had 60 to 85 different conditions. And so if you suffer from one of these conditions, you might also test positive. And so an easy question for a treating physician or an expert weighing in on it, I would just go through all of them. What did you do to rule out this? Nothing. Okay. Nothing. Nothing. Do you know if he has this? No. You didn't rule that out? No. Okay. What does it mean to rule out? And really put on for the jury that they did nothing. They just looked at a piece of paper. I'm going to put somebody in prison for life based on what a piece of paper says when the paper itself, doesn't make the claim that they're saying it does. And that was the basis of the defense, that scientifically it would almost be impossible to know beyond a reasonable doubt. Keep in mind, that's why it has criminal application, not civil application. Beyond a reasonable doubt, can you say that person has HIV? Did you do the work? And, you know, inevitably they didn't. So it was a pretty successful defense. Did she have, was her HIV corroborated by a physician? I don't remember in that case particularly. But what happened in most of the cases was the physician would point at the test and the physician would say, you'd say, how did you diagnose this person? I gave him a test. Okay. And then what? Well, then I looked at the test. Okay. And what did the test tell you? Test told me she had HIV. So that's the only thing you used to diagnose her? Yes. That. Okay. And then you put the test up and the test says, don't use me. You have to use your own independent judgment to make this determination. Don't just rely on me. And so the test is pointing at the physician to make the diagnosis and the diagnosis is, and the physician is pointing back at the test to make the diagnosis and no one has actually claimed to make a diagnosis. And so if the test is saying, I don't diagnose and the physician saying, I don't diagnose, then I look and say, how do you know this lady has HIV? No one's saying she has it. I see what you're saying. Yeah. And again, you're just looking for doubt, any doubt at all. If any one of those people walk out of the room and go, I don't know. I mean, he made a good point about the, neither one of them took responsibility for it. Not guilty. Not guilty. You know, but you have to count on people putting aside their biases, their preconceived notions, and just listening to the evidence. And that's hard. How long did that take? That whole, that whole trial? I mean, I had different trials. Some of them were a couple of days. Some of them were weeks. I think the longest one may have been three or four weeks of a trial. Yeah. So, and we had different levels of success. We had some not guilties. We had some guilties. We had some, some. Some clients are just not very sympathetic. You know, they get up there and they don't look sympathetic. They don't walk sympathetically. They don't speak sympathetically from the jury. I mean, from the witness stand. They don't have a sympathetic history. The 15 other women that take the witness stand don't speak sympathetically of them. Right. And so there's some cases that are just hard. Your client is so unlikable that you understand why a jury would. Right. Would do that. Yeah. Hair loss is one of those things that creeps up slowly without you noticing until one day your mom makes a rude comment at, brunch about your receding hairline. HIMS makes it simple to actually do something about it. HIMS offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments, including chews, orals, serums, and sprays all through a 100% online process. Prescription strength ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil can help prevent further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. You can get a personalized treatment plan that puts your goals first with flexible subscription options, once a day treatment options, and access to 24, seven provider support. It's straightforward, transparent, and designed to make getting care feel easy for simple online access to personalize and affordable care for hair loss, ed weight loss, and more visit HIMS.com forward slash Danny. That's HIMS.com slash D a N N Y for your free online visit. H I M S.com forward slash Danny featured products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety effectiveness or quality prescription required. Individual results, may vary C website for full details, restrictions on important safety information. The beyond the reasonable doubt thing. I never really understood what that meant. Nobody does. Yeah. Why is it like that? Like, what does that, what does that mean beyond a reasonable doubt? That just means one of the jurors has to have a slight doubt about anything. Not well, the Supreme court has never quite defined it. They've left it up to the states to define it. Different states have tried to define it differently. There's a pattern jury instruction. A lot of the states use, and it's, it's not, uh, it's absence of all doubt. It's absence of any reasonable doubt, meaning that a reasonable person under the same or similar circumstances could walk away also doubting it. You know, like this is, this is something that makes me wonder whether it happened. You know, I might be, I might be really convinced it happened. And one of the things in closing I used to do is I would start at no doubt, you know, we have no doubt, no doubt, a hundred percent. Sure. He did it right. And then you kind of walk up and you say, okay, you're 10% sure. You know, we get away from percentages, but you use some, some phrase that's kind of, yeah, I mean, maybe there's a possibility you didn't do it. Okay. Um, well, that's not guilty. I mean, you know, that you have to be, um, you have to be pretty sure, you know, you can't say, well, maybe space aliens dropped out of the sky and killed him. And that's not, that's not reasonable doubt, but you get past any reasonable likelihood that something else may have happened. Right. That leaves some lingering question in your mind. You've got, you, you by law are compelled to vote not guilty. And that's hard for people to accept because we don't sit, you know, as, as, as observers, we don't sit and watch an entire trial. Even if you watch it on TV, you don't watch an entire trial. You'll hear people. I watched every second of the OJ Simpson trial. I know he did it. Yeah. But you weren't in the courtroom, right? You weren't looking at OJ's face the whole time. You weren't looking at the prosecution's face. You didn't see the knees of the witness bouncing up and down. You didn't see how nervous the witness looked during breaks and sidebars when the camera went over to, but you, you, you're not seeing it all. You're seeing a portion of it. You're only seeing a piece of it. You know, you got to trust the province of the jury that they're going to get it right. Yeah. I think we need more. We need to bring back trials like the Johnny Depp Amber heard trial. That was my favorite trial entertainment. Yeah. It's just so, so fun. You know, it's like uplifting. It's what this country needs. Less of this Lindsay Clancy bullshit. Yeah. That was a tough one, man. Um, and I didn't watch any of it. That was a tough one. Just watching it tear the country apart though. It's so that's the thing that, like, really bewilders me. It seemed like a media operation. It did. It seemed like a test run is what I, is how I interpreted it. Yeah. You know, can we through social media affect a jury? Uh, they saw the prosecution wasn't meeting their burden. There was, there was no real push to convict her until midway through the trial. And then all of a sudden, all these influencers come out and like, she's a hundred percent guilty. She's a monster. She killed her kids. This was, there was no push to convict her in the beginning. Not, I mean, did you, do you, do you recall a massive social media influencer push before the trial started to convict her? I mean, I wasn't paying attention until there was a social media push. Right. Cause there wasn't one. Right. You know, the, the absence of evidence in this case is evidence. There was no massive social media influencer push to, to demonize and convict this woman. People, I think saw that the prosecution was failing to meet its burden, that the defense was doing a really good job. And so they thought, let's see if we can save this woman. Let's save this jury on social media. Let's, let's do a test run. Yeah. Not necessarily for the Tyler Robinson jury. You know, my bias kind of leads me to wonder if that was the genesis of it. Cause it seemed to be a lot of the same people. But I wondered, is this a push to figure out, can we take a social media influence campaign and save a prosecution? And they didn't, you know, the jury seemed largely immune from it. Yeah. And the other weird thing is how, after the thing, after the, the mistrial happened, all of the jurors are going on social media doing interviews. Yeah. That was a little weird. I don't think I've ever seen that happen before. I mean, it happens, but I don't think it should. I wish jurors would do that. Aren't they legally not allowed to like, look at any social media shit and like pay attention to any, like the public narrative? Not supposed to during the case. Yeah. I mean, they ask every day, have you seen anything that, that hampers your ability to be impartial? They all lie. Yeah. I like tell the story. We, we had a car wreck case. It was a small case, pick a jury at the end of the day. Judge charges them and says, Hey, look, don't look up anything in this case. And this case took place at this intersection in town. Don't go by there. Everything you're going to learn about that intersection is going to come through this evidence in this courtroom. So just, it's not going to be quick trial a day or two. Just stay away. Don't Google. Don't. Okay. Yes, judge. We'll do exactly that. Well, one of the other lawyers and I decide we need to go get better pictures just for our reference. So we immediately drive over to the intersection. And who do we, we see a bunch of jurors standing. No way. I mean, they just lie. They just lie. Of course you bring them in and you, you know, and the judge is like, well, did you see anything there that would prevent you from being impartial? No judge. Absolutely not. And are you allowed to call them out? Like, isn't that doesn't. Yeah. I mean, you can, but that just wastes time because then you got to find a new jury. Well, I mean, the judge isn't going to strike them for that. You know, the judges, judges like to believe the whole system rests on the idea that people can follow the judge's instruction. Like when the judge says, you just heard somebody say something. If you caught it, disregard it. Don't think about it. Well, I mean, the jury can't do that. That's not how humans work. We take all available information and we immediately began to synthesize it in our minds. Right. They can't strike that from their mind. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other thing about all those, all those women bringing their kids out there in front of the courthouse and protesting, like, yeah, that seemed a little psyop-y to me. Yeah. It seemed a little, a little, you know, George Floyd, Black Lives Matter protest-y to me. I wondered to what extent the people, I believe much of what we see in the media is just a psyop. I wonder to what extent the people trying to tear the country apart went and found those women. Yes. And told them you should do this video or maybe convince five women to do the video. And then they make it go viral with their little bot farms or whatever. Yes. And that they know the effect that'll have on, oh, I can get attention if I say I'm going to, you know, I think about harming my kid. Oh, I'll make a video. doing that. I'll get attention. I love attention. And the whole thing is just a giant psyop that was not organic. Both sides are, you know, the social media influencer campaign to convict was a psyop. The whole women are out there thinking about harming their children. That's a psyop. And it's all meant to just tear us apart. It's all meant to keep us at each other's throats. I hope it was a psyop because if it wasn't a psyop, then that means our country is worse off than I thought originally. Yeah. Because if it's a psyop, it's just a lack of creativity on the side of the government or whoever the people are. George Soros is of the world that do commit those sorts of things, you know. Like those people had to have been. Like what kind of person has the extra time and money to be able to call off work, pull their kid out of school, and drive across state lines to go get in front of a camera in front of a courtroom to defend some woman who killed her kids? I can't imagine. No one I know. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's. Yeah. There's that expression, we deserve better psyops. I so align with that, man. I definitely think we deserve better psyops. They've gotten so lazy. They really have. That's funny. And yeah, it just does feel like that whole thing was forced, was shoved down our throats. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, that's a case, frankly, that shouldn't have made the media. I didn't quite understand why it made the media. And it was everywhere. Yeah. It was impossible to escape it. Right. I mean, it seems pretty open and shut. If you take a life, you're necessarily insane, right? Yes. I mean, that's not a sane action. Right. Either that or you're like demon possessed. But in that case, you're also insane. Right. So we agree that anyone who kills someone's insane. Yes. Are we going to sit here and say what level of insanity becomes treatable and a lower level of insanity while still insane? They deserve prison. But if you're super insane, you can go get help at the hospital and one day be set free. The whole notion is really bizarre to me. But either way in this case, like she was going to be locked up, right? It was just whether she was going to be in an actual like high security prison or medium security prison versus like a mental institution. I honestly, and let me plead the Andrew Wilson here, I don't know the charges. I did not look at the case closely enough. Let's look it up. Let's see what the charges were. I don't know whether acquittal was an option, full acquittal was an option. Right. Yeah. I think it was, but I don't know. I don't know if that's what the jury was considering. Like I, again, I'm one guy. I don't, I can't. Let's let's ask our, our handy dandy AI, what were the charges against Lindsey Clancy and was acquittal an option for her? So you can find fun fact, I have a friend who's a local attorney and he, he got his first public case around here when he was just starting his law career. He took a pro bono case for a guy who was convicted of smuggling like a hundred years ago. Yeah. it was like a fail safe. right? In case, in case they didn't make it. And, you know, there'll probably be issues of bringing the footage back, you know, through all that radiation and probably be damaged the film reels and all that. And that makes sense. It was a, it was a, a promo, you know, it was a promo for the U S to be the best country on earth. I don't think there's a chance we went. And I think you don't think there's any chance. No. And, and I, I mean, maybe 1%, but I think the reason that's so radioactive and why people are treated as absolute loon bats, if they think that the consequences are so devastating, more devastating than admitting, Hey, we shot the president. You know? I mean, the hundreds of billions of dollars that were invested in that program, decades of lying about it, how many people were involved? I mean, that is a real, you talk about losing faith in the government. I mean, you would cause a, an existential crisis, particularly for the older generations. If someone came out like, look, we faked the whole thing. We're sorry. We, we, it was the cold. War times were different, but yeah, we faked it. Yeah. I mean, it would, it would cause huge problems with, with the credibility of the government. Yeah. It's a weird one for sure. And when I talked about, when I talked to a Charlie Duke, one of the last guys to walk on the moon in here, he didn't do any, he didn't do a good job convincing me that he went, what did he do wrong? He just kept saying, he didn't, I don't know what he did wrong, but what he, the, what he was saying to me when I was like, I was pressing him and like, just explain to me, I don't know what he did wrong, but what he, the, what he was saying to me to me, what, what it felt like when you first walked on the moon at the age of, what did he say? He was 36 years old or something like, like just walk me through the emotions. What did it feel like? What was going through your head? What, you know? And the only thing he could say was just exciting, just exciting. I was just excitement. It was just excitement. You know, I'm on the moon. It was exciting. That was it. I mean, I was, I always say like, if I was to walk on the moon, I would have more than one word to describe what it felt like. It's almost like they were given talking points and they can't deviate from those talking points. You know, in the, in the very initial phases afterwards, they, you know, one guy said, I don't know, do you remember seeing any stars? I'm like, I think I would remember. So I think after that debacle, they came back and like, look, here's your talking points. You don't stray. If they're not on this sheet, you don't know. You don't use other adjectives. You don't use other adverbs. You only use the words on this sheet. And everybody was given a slightly different sheet. So it wouldn't, it wouldn't sound like talking points. Yes. A hundred percent. Um, I don't think they went. And I mean, the biggest red flag for me about all of it, that's kind of, it's impossible to deny is that happened. You had MK ultra, you had the Gulf of Tonkin, the Vietnam war, uh, operation Northwoods, uh, Watergate. And in the middle of all of this, the one thing that wasn't a lie was the most incredible feat of humankind. Yeah. Well, and the fact that Kennedy says in 61, we're going to the moon. And eight years later, they're standing on the moon. They go what, five or six times in the next few years. And then they, 50 years, they're like, yeah, there's really nothing up there. There's no reason to go back. Right. Yeah. And okay. Well, and then all of a sudden they're like, oh, maybe we should go back and the, Hey, we should go back. We're now two decades into, Hey, we should go back. Yeah. And they're not even close. Right. You know, the best they can do is, is drink. Tomato soup as they allegedly are going around the moon. Yeah. Allegedly just went around. It would have been so easy to just put a GoPro in the window, let it roll the entire 48 hours they were gone. And no one would be able to dispute it. You would have just indisputable evidence of here's the rocket going up. Here's it circling the moon. You know, you mean the whole trip? Yes. Yeah. Put it in the window of the capsule and just let it roll. Yeah. Instead we get these little clips and occasional photos. And most of the time there's just them like, look, my pigtails are in the air. You know, I don't care about that. Watch pigtails. Like show me the moon. Yeah. A hundred percent. It's definitely, it's definitely squirrely. Yeah. Lots of goofy shit going on. Back to the, the Charlie Kirk stuff. I guess like high level, do you think that there's, or let me put it this way. What do you think the probability of Tyler Robinson being? The one who shot and killed Charlie? Like what's the probability that that happened? I put it low. I mean, low, single digits, um, maybe even as low as 1% or lower. I mean, I do leave open the outside possibility that it was him walking through campus. It was him on the roof. The gun, even though we can't see it was somehow on there on the roof. And he shot, he shot him. Um, and hit him on the first shot and the bullet for whatever reason had a very weird reaction in his body. I mean, at very low probability, but I do leave it open. But 0% that it was a 30 out of six. Near zero. Near zero. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just near zero. Yeah. I've shot 30 out of sixes. I've seen things shot with 30 out of sixes. He just barely moves. Yeah. It just doesn't look like it. Sorry. It just doesn't. Did you say that it was possible that the microphone electrocuted him? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, and I'm, I'm kind of more convinced of that now. I haven't covered it much lately, but I'm kind of more convinced of something like that. If you read the argument there is, is if his vertebrae has got blown out and the connection between his body and his brain was gone, how would he be able to like tense up and have muscle tension? Right? Yeah. Yeah. I was contacted by a neurosurgeon, um, and actually ended up talking to a professor, uh, about it as well. And they both kind of said the same thing. Look, man, all the science is that once that connection severed, you have about a 10th, maybe a 10th and a half of a second before every muscle in your body goes flaccid. Like you're not going to sit there tensed up. You're not going to be sitting upright. You're going to crumple into a puddle wherever you are, um, in a, a smaller amount of time than the human brain will be able to process. No one would have recalled seeing Charlie do any of this, you know? Right. Um, and I, I just, I tend to believe the science on that. And so the question is what causes his body to remain tense and the absence of a connection from his brain to the rest of his body? Uh, cause if, if what you're saying is in the, in the medical examiner's report, they said from C2 to C7, the cervical spinal cord was traumatically absent or was missing. Um, so no connection between the brain and the muscles. So how is he tensing his hands? How is he holding the microphone? How are his elbows flexed? How is his, how is his torso erect? If he's being jolted with electricity though, for a second, he might be able to hold that posture for a second cause he's, he's gonna, he's gonna tense up. Um, is that what happened? I don't know, man. I really don't. Um, I just know the more we learn about the case, the less likely it seems like he was shot in the neck. The idea behind the electrocuted, that electrified microphone is that, they would have had like multiple backup plans, like backup ways to make sure that he died in case like they tried to kill him and it didn't kill him. That would have made the situation worse. Well, and, um, you know, I kind of think whatever happened under his shirt was supposed to simulate a gunshot and it, it went out of control and hit him in the neck. You know, it was supposed to maybe simulate a gunshot to the chest because if you get shot with a 30 out six to the chest, okay, maybe it doesn't escape. Maybe it doesn't go out the back, you know, probably would kill you pretty instantly. Um, and you know, you, you, you zap them with the electricity, you have whatever that is in his chest that's rigged to, to explode or to move or whatever it is. Um, it makes its movement. Then you bring him down to the ground and you can either finish them off under the table, finish them off in the SUV. You can finish them off in the hospital, you know, um, or maybe you're, you've rigged it up so that it does give him a heart attack or it does penetrate his chest. And you know, but I think there's a, I will say this, I think there's a 100% chance Charlie was dying that day. Once they gave the go sign and it was clear it was about to go down, assuming there was some sort of conspiracy. I think at that point there were multiple backups. He was not escaping alive. They were not going to take a shot at him and miss like they did with Trump. Right. Yeah. And what do you make of, who was the guy who walked up and like rubbed his arm before? Oh, okay. So there's a guy named Dan Flood. Okay. Dan Flood was Charlie's like right-hand security guy. If you watch any old videos of Charlie under 10th, you almost inevitably see Dan Flood standing within an arm's length or two of him. He's the main security guy. He's Charlie's guy. For some reason, it's very bizarre. He's not paying, you know, we have about 11 minutes of footage before Charlie dies. In those 11 minutes for like nine of them, yeah, that's the right-hand movement there. For like nine of them, he's just kind of standing around. He's talking in his microphone. He's talking to different people under the tent. He's looking around. But man, in the last minute or so, he really keys in. He really gets serious. He stays positioned. And then right before it happens, he steps forward and takes his left hand and puts it on his right bicep. And within milliseconds of him doing that, you hear the loud bang and Charlie goes down. I just would like an explanation what he was doing. If he's not involved, that's fine. It's the most unfortunate timing of all time to do that weird move. This guy on the right here, same guy? Yeah, same guy. If he wasn't involved, and it's possible, if he wasn't involved. Golf of America t-shirt, that's hilarious. Yeah, his t-shirts were always great. Always black until that day. I've never seen him in white except that day. Until the day he died. He always wore black until the day he died. Yeah. That's weird. I mean, maybe it's weird. It's weird if you think there was a conspiracy to kill him. Yeah. Yeah. So, do you think it's possible that this Dan, like, has anyone talked to this Dan guy? I don't think so. Has he said anything publicly? Not that I've heard. No? No. I don't know if anyone's talked to him behind the scenes, like, secretly, but I've not heard anybody talk to him. And there was a bunch of other, you know, I know Candace points out a bunch of other weird things that were happening under the tent, like right when he was shot. You know, there were other people, like the guy who mic'd him, the guy who put the Rode Go wireless microphone on. You know, he's fiddling with the sound the whole time, as if they didn't sound check, as if they didn't have it ready to go when Charlie showed up. There's this weird buzzing in the audio system. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Feedback, all this weird stuff going on. It seemed like amateur hour, and they had all the best people there. This guy who's messing with the audio who had mic'd Charlie right before. I mean, when Dan Flood steps forward and touches his arm, that guy turns his head away. Maybe he was wiping his face on his sleeve. I don't know. But it looks like he's flinching, like he's hiding his eyes from what's about to happen or, you know, can't plug his ears, but looks like he's wincing, you know, in advance, ready for something. And again, it may be nothing, may have been wiping his chin or whatever, but I would prefer that he say that since it's obvious he did do that movement. Why not just come out and say, yeah, you know, this is something audio people do all the time. We're always wiping our chins on our, wiping our mouth on our. sleeve, you know, our hands are busy. I don't know. There's just, there was a lot of weird stuff, like, like right before Brian Harple, you just had him on the screen, right before Charlie goes down, Brian Harple had been standing in basically the same spot the entire time. Who is Brian Harple? From Geico Subconscious News, I'm Tammy Racing Thoughts, broadcasting from your brain. Tonight's top worry, if something happens to your apartment and you need to, like, stay in a hotel and pay for it, that would be crazy, right? Art Palpitations has more. That would be crazy, Tammy. We've got surprisingly affordable renter's insurance through Geico, so it could be covered, giving you peace of mind. Aw, I love a story that ends well. Next up, love stories. Are they all they're cracked up to be? It feels good to worry less. It feels good to Geico. At Harmony Bank, we believe that better happens together. We're a locally owned bank, built on relationships and personally committed to your success. Our community bankers are ready to make quick decisions. No big bank bureaucracy, just a custom approach. To help you thrive, from business loans to mortgages and everyday banking needs, Harmony Bank provides a secure, modern experience with a touch of Texas hospitality. We're Harmony Bank, where better happens together. He's the lead security contractor. So he led the company that Charlie used as a security contractor. Right before the bang happens, right before Dan Flood touches his arm, right before Philip Goldsberry moves out. And he moves his head, maybe 30 seconds earlier, Brian Harpole, who had been standing kind of up in front of Charlie, like maybe at Charlie's one o'clock or two o'clock, now moves to like Charlie's three or four o'clock. And there was really no explanation why. And if you heard him on the Sean Ryan show, he said, hey, you know, the way we divvy up responsibility, we have a slice we're looking at. We have a spot in the audience. That's our spot. Yeah. And so why did you move? Why did you, and he just happened to move in a position that would be really expedient to get to Charlie in a very short period of time. So there, there's all this weirdness. And again, if it's not a conspiracy, if Tyler Robinson shot him, then it's the most unfortunate set of, of coincidences. And I, and I, and I feel bad for him if that's the case, because it all looks terrible. Yeah. I mean, the balls to be able to go on Sean Ryan's show and blame the local cops for not having. The coverage that they wanted is especially astronomical. Yeah. Especially when you read, you know, he, he, the big reveal is he gives this text message and when you read the actual text, they got everything they asked for. They asked for the roof above them to be blocked off from pedestrian traffic or to have one of their guys up there. And, and the, the local cop was like, yeah, we got you, man. Well, and they, and they gave them both. They set up a temporary trespassing zone. Yeah. There's the text. Yeah. Hey, chief long. We received this message today from a student group, FYSA, whatever that means. Uh, there's a student roof access pretty close to where Charlie Kirk will be set up at the Utah Valley. The Sorenson student center has a couple of staircases that go up the walkways onto the roof. Um, and this, I assume the cop is the one in the, that's the allegation. Yeah. Um, you want roof access to the roof. I was told students have access above us. If this is true, it'd be nice to either have it control, have it controlled access or allow one of my guys to access the roof. I'd love for one of my guys to be there as well, if possible. I got you covered. Thank you. Okay. So he asked for two things, the roof above them. That's the roof directly above Charlie's head, which is the Sorenson center. Well, it's called the hall of flags, but the roof, the, you know, UVU is built on a giant hill. And so the buildings go down like this across campus. So the, the, the roof of one building is actually the floor of the next building up the hill. And so the hall of flags roof is, is here. And then you walk or. Here, and then you walk on that and it goes up and, and, and that now becomes the floor of the next building. Right. And so what he's saying here is the Sorenson center has a couple of stairs that go up to the walkways on the roof, the roof above them. Yes. The hall of flags roof where they now hang the flag or where they hung the flag. So in other words, where Charlie's tent was there, he's clearly talking about the roof directly above Charlie's tent and only that roof. Right. And so he says, I got you covered. What do you want? I want either to have it controlled access, or I want one of my guys up there. And the guy says, I got you covered. What did they end up with? Controlled access on that roof and one of their security guys was up there. They got both. So why is he, why? So what is he saying? This guy did wrong, this cop? Well, they're trying to use this to say that the cops agreed to cover every roof on campus. And that's not what this is saying. It's just not saying that. He just wanted access. He wanted access to one person. To one particular roof directly above Charlie. That's it. Right. That's all they're talking about. And so they spin this to say UVU failed because they said they were, they had the roofs covered. Well, no, they didn't say they had the roofs, plural, covered. Well, like, you know, what's so funny is like, you can get away with doing some dumb shit like this, that like anyone with more than 60 seconds to ponder like the, you know, what this actually is. Yeah. Would figure out. This doesn't make sense. Right. But most people don't have the time. Most people just hear somebody say something with confidence on a podcast. Like, oh, that's what it is. Yeah. The same way that guy who was one of the TPUSA guys who was a part of the hearing walked out and said, oh, no, it's exactly what we thought it was. Nothing to say here. There's a huge majority of people like my parents who only watch Fox News who are going to see that and say, that's what it was. Correct. And so they use this text exchange to say that UVU failed by letting Tyler Robinson's on the low sea center roof, which is 150 yards away, because according to this text message, they had the roofs covered, the roofs plural. That's not what they're talking about. They're talking about one roof. They want controlled access or a guy on that roof. And they gave them both things they asked for. They didn't just give them one or the other, which is all he asked for. Give me either or. Well, they didn't give you either or. They give you both and. Right. They give you both of them. And so you can't use this to say that they failed. Now, maybe they should have had other roofs covered. Yeah. Maybe you should have brought to the attention there were other roofs that were a problem because everybody that came in that day who's gone on the record, Blake Neff, Mikey McCoy, Frank Turek, several people, I think even Brian Harpo might have said, oh, yeah, when we got there, we looked around and thought, oh, this doesn't look good. Okay. Well, maybe you don't put your guy out there. Maybe you say, hey, we had a total misunderstanding of this place. If you can't secure this place, we can't do this. You know, we'll just tell people it's delayed 30 minutes. They didn't do that. They just walked them right out there and put them under a tent. Yeah. That they thought was a death trap. I mean, that's, again, that's my read of it, whether or not that's true or not. But I am less than amused at TPUSA's response to that text message. That is fundamentally a dishonest reading of that text message. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Now, who is this guy who was taking photos? Who was taking photos with Charlie and some of the security people that day? He was like a short guy with a beard. Butch Hibbs. Butch Hibbs. Okay. Yeah. What's the story with that guy? I don't know much of the story behind him. I'd never heard of him before that day. I'd actually never heard of his brother before that day. But his brother is a fairly prominent pastor, apparently, named Jack Hibbs. Jack Hibbs tells the story that Butch called him and said, hey, Charlie's going to be in town. Can you give me a ticket? And Jack's like, well, I don't know. "Well, it's last minute, but I'll call him and see." So he calls Charlie And Charlie's like, yeah, no sweat. I'll take care of it. And he ends up backstage with Charlie. And he's taking pictures with Frank Turek right before the event. Maybe the last actual posed picture Charlie took before he died. Right. But when Charlie dies, he's standing underneath the Hall of Flags, that roof we were just talking about, sort of behind the tent. And Candace Owens released a video that as soon as Charlie goes down, it seems Butch pulls out his phone and starts recording. He doesn't run for his life. He's just recording everyone running for their lives. It's a very bizarre reaction. Whoa. And then he doesn't leave. Behind the tent. Yeah. Because people were filtering out behind the tent. Yeah. That was like an exit path. Everybody ran behind the – or a lot of people ran behind the tent to get out. And Butch has his phone in the air. It looks like he's recording. I don't know what he's doing. But he's certainly standing there holding up what appears to be a phone while people file past him in panic and fear. Yeah, that's Butch Hibbs right there. That's him recording on the phone. On the floor, obviously. Yeah. Okay, that's when Charlie's walking in. Yeah, that's him. But that's him in the flannel and the beard there. Yeah. It looks like him. I'll say that. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know, man. Add him to the list of weirdnesses that do. So what is significant about this guy? I mean, nothing other than – What's his background? We don't know. I have no idea what he did for a living. I have no idea where he worked. He operated a – or had a YouTube channel. Look, there he is again. Yeah. So after that – After the shot, he hangs around for like a while. Really? Yeah, and there are people going around getting interviews of people, and he's – I don't know if he's positioning himself behind them, but he ends up behind them almost like he's listening in to what they're saying. He hung around for quite a while afterwards while everyone else left. Yeah, you'll see him come walking through here in a second. He walks by. But yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of weirdnesses with that guy. But I don't know his background. I mean, he had a YouTube channel he operated that had some videos of drones at one point. That's him right there, or someone who looks like him. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's the guy from the photo for sure. Well, I don't know. I have my suspicions. And he did not really react to it. I mean, he just watched it. That's him. That's supposedly the last posed picture Charlie took before he died. And who's the guy? The guy on the right? The guy named Frank Turek. Okay. Another weird guy in the story. To you, what is one of the strangest things that people aren't really paying attention to or that people don't really cover all that often that you think maybe hasn't gotten the amount of attention it deserves? I think the Dan Flood thing. People don't talk about it. Him putting his arms. Yeah, that is so weird. And no one talks about it. I mean, I've mentioned it several times. A few people have mentioned it. You'll see videos of it occasionally pop up. But I think until you get an explanation for what that was, it's hard not to draw. It's possible it wasn't some sort of a sign, but it's hard not to draw the conclusion it was a sign. He looks right, looks left, or looks right, looks down, looks left, steps forward and does that weird thing. You know, what were you doing? And I think one of the reasons, he's probably the only smart one of the group. The reason people keep coming back to Frank Turek maybe being weird or suspicious, is because he keeps going on podcasts and keeps talking. He's tried to become famous off of this, it seems like. Mikey McCoy shows up and does public appearances. Blake Neff, who was there, shows up and does public appearances. Andrew Colvette, who wasn't there, shows up and does public appearances. Erica Kirk, who wasn't there, shows up and does. So all these people who keep speaking out, they're only making it worse on themselves. Take Dan Flood's example. Shut up. You know, no one's talking about Dan Flood because Dan Flood's not saying anything. Right. You know, Dan Flood came out and explained what he was doing, and I was just scratching my bicep. Now people, a thousand people would do podcasts on, was he really scratching his bicep? Has anyone ever scratched their bicep that way? You know, here's 40 videos of people scratching their bicep. No one else scratches their bicep that way. And so I think that's probably one of the more underrated, just on the ground things that happened that day that people aren't talking about. Other ones, I don't know, man. This case is so, every aspect of this case is just scrutinized to no end, so it's hard to say. There's something not getting enough attention. Now, obviously, Candace has gotten a lot of blowback and like a lot of threats based on all the coverage she's done. Have you experienced anything like that with all the coverage you've been doing? Yeah, I don't publicize it. I mean, yeah. Yeah. The TPUSA, just like, not necessarily, I can't, for me, it's like, I don't, I can't imagine there's a huge like fan base behind them that would be like aggressively pushing against people asking questions. You know, like. You wouldn't think. If my mom or my dad or one of my family members got killed, I would be the last person out there attacking people for trying to investigate it. Yeah. You know, I would be the last person going out there saying, case closed. Yeah. If I want to get to the truth of something, I'm the last person that's trying to seal the case and say, case closed. Usually people who are saying case closed are the ones that, you know, they want to move on. Yeah. I mean, you would, you would think, you would think that that would be the case, but it's not, man. There is a, a very sophisticated, um, I don't know if it's decentralized or not, but there's a very sophisticated group of people who are pushed back very hard on these things. Um, and, and post, I'm not exaggerating hundreds or thousands of times a month each in opposition to Candace Owens and other people covering this. I mean, it gets, it gets very vicious. Um, part of me wonders if they're not trying to just train the computer algorithms, you know, everybody now goes to chat. I mean, I'm not trying to just train the computer algorithms. I'm trying to train the computer algorithms. down. You're evil. You're crazy. How can you think that? And that's most of the people. Like that's most of what we believe is not encapsulated in these small issues that politicians tell us we're allowed to talk about. The media tells us you can only talk about these particular things. And that's. Yeah, they stick to those talking points for sure. Anyone with any kind of power or political power or anything like that, or like lots of money, they stick to those talking points. Yeah. And the talking points are designed to keep you distracted so that we can spend a trillion and a half dollars a year on the military to keep certain waterways open. I saw your tweet. You tweeted some guy or retweeted some guy who was like, we cannot let foreigners come in and dictate our laws in our country or something. Period. He was talking about immigration, which is one of the go-to talking points. And then you basically body bagged him with your tweet with what you said about him using foreign influence in every single political party in the United States, like dictating all these crazy foreign wars and all this stuff. Yeah. They prefer foreigners who aren't here dictating our policies. Exactly. Yeah. And that's just the reality. But it's it. I mean, that's. It's a good litmus test, I feel like, just to see what people are talking about. What are their political talking points online? And if it falls in line with sort of the general consensus that here's what the left team says, here's what the right team says, and as long as it's not too far outside of those boundaries, you can figure it out. Yeah. You can figure out what team they're on. Oh, yeah. Which is more likely than not the unit party. But I mean, which party is pro-war? Both. In the '90s, it was. Or the '90s and 2000s, it was the Republican party that was pro-war. And the left was against. Actually, in the '90s, both parties were for it. And then we had a period of time. You remember Cindy Sheehan? Does that name ring a bell? Mm-mm. She was sort of the face of the anti-war left. She was the one who camped out on Bush's. When? In the 2004, '05, '06, '07 in there. She camped out on George Bush's lawn in Crawford, Texas, and her son had died in Iraq, and she was so anti-war. And both sides sort of used her. The Democrats were like, "See, she's hurt by this, and you should feel bad for her and end these wars." And the right was like, "Look, she's crazy. You should chastise her and support these wars." That's emblematic of the type of people who are against this war, nutcases who camp out on the president's lawn. And so we played this game that Democrats were somehow. Mm-hmm. Anti-war, and that went on for a while. But when the chips were all in the middle of the table and it was time to show your cards, and that was Ukraine, both sides revealed that they were pro-war. Mm-hmm. Neither side wanted to pull out of that. As soon as President Trump started running saying, "Man, maybe these foreign wars are a little much. Maybe we shouldn't do that," man, both sides jumped on it. Oh, yeah. And they're like, "No, no, no, no, no. We need to amplify what's going on in Syria. We need to keep going in Ukraine." And it let you know, that it's just a game. They're just foe fighting on some of these major issues. Even on the issues they disagree on, they really agree on. Yeah. No, you could play tape from now until next month of Trump saying how stupid the foreign wars were and how weak Obama would be if he invaded Iran and all this stuff. And it's like, he flipped on a dime as soon as he got elected. Yeah. And it's almost like that shooting in Butler was like at the, no pun intended, turning point. For him. Well, he certainly seemed to change about that time. I honestly don't know- I was optimistic after that happened. That he would- That maybe that was real and he had some sort of coming to Jesus revelation that I almost just died there. Maybe I realized how mortal I actually am. And I thought maybe he was going to be. And then right after that, when you had the Republican National Convention, where Hulk Hogan and Tucker Carlson came out, he seemed more measured than usual. He did. It was weird when he was like, "I'm never going to talk about this again after tonight." And I thought, "Well, that's really weird because all the guy likes to do is talk about himself and make himself a victim out of everything. Here's the ultimate victim. Someone shot you." And you're not going to talk about it again. That should have been a notice to everybody that something weird was going on. Mm-hmm. And again, the biggest betrayal of campaign promises. Oh, there's never been a bigger betrayal. He was so vehemently opposed to everything he's doing right now, and had been for a long time. Now, historically, you've been more of a right-winger type of guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So did you ever have any hope for Trump, even at the beginning? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. I supported him in 20. I didn't support him in the early primaries of 2016. I was on a local radio show back then. And I remember joking. I'm not joking around. I was serious. This guy's a clown. He's not serious. He's not really running to win. But I jokingly say this, but it's true. I bought a blender at Target. We needed a new blender. Small kids, I was making a smoothie. I need to go get a blender. So I go get a blender, a hundred bucks, come home, plug it in, and the thing broke the very first time I used it. And I got so frustrated with it. I was like, "Oh, my God. I need to go get a blender." I got so frustrated. That was the summer of 2016. I got so frustrated. I told my wife, I was like, "I'm voting for Trump." He's the only one that's pushing back on these trade deals that are bringing all this cheap crap in. I'm still using the hand mixer my parents got as a wedding present in the early '70s, but I can't buy a blender tonight and use it tonight. It's going to break tonight. I'm so sick of this cheap crap coming in from overseas. I'm voting for Trump. And I went all in, man. I went in with both feet, bought the MAGA hat, and the whole nine yards. And then his first term was largely a disappointment. He just didn't really do much. So going into this 2020, he lost. Going into the 2024 election, I was like, "I'm not supporting him again." He had his chance. He proved he doesn't have the metal to actually do any of this stuff. But then after the primary, he starts going like, "All right, I'm all in again. Let's do it." And then he wins and it's worse. It's worse than he was in the first term. John: Yeah. So I've been all in a couple times and he's been nothing but a disappointment as far as I'm concerned. Trevor Burrus: You think it's possible he gets a third term? John: No. No. No. Not unless they change- Trevor Burrus: There's this theory floating around out there that the Maduro kidnapping was. First of all, Maduro has been a CIA asset since the. I think he was. The Biden intelligence community recruited him and he's been working with CIA. This is just all a theory I'm saying right now. I'm not saying that this is true. But Trump basically, they got him to agree to be extracted out of Venezuela and they're going to do a trial with him and they're going to give him the option to basically walk if he comes out and says that they used their voting machines to steal the election in 2020. And Trump's going to try to use that as an excuse to get a third term. Trevor Burrus: How would that give him a third term though? He's already served two terms. John: I don't know. Trevor Burrus: I mean, you still have the constitutional prohibition against serving more than two terms. John: Right. That's a good point. That's just a theory that's floating around there. He's going to try to strong arm a third term based on Maduro saying that it was stolen. I don't know legally how you do that. I mean, I guess you can't. The constitution is. I know it gets squirrelly when you're a lawyer and you're dealing with the constitution. Trevor Burrus: So the question's raised then, okay, there are machines that were in Venezuela that could steal elections. Where are they now? John: In the US. Trevor Burrus: Okay. Can they still steal elections? John: Yeah. Trevor Burrus: So do we need to show up and vote or are they just going to pick who they want anyway? John: Right. That's the problem. Trevor Burrus: Yeah. What happened to paper? When Bush v. Gore happened in Florida, everybody came down and counted the ballots. A lot of news organizations got access to the actual physical ballots. You remember they were holding them up to the light to see if light could come through and they counted the ballots. And every single news organization, even the ones that said George Bush lost the election and stole the election at the Supreme Court, they all came in and counted the ballots and they all concluded, yes, based on the availability of the physical paper ballots we have, George Bush actually did win the election. We can't do that anymore. I walk out, I don't get a physical ballot. I push a button, I walk out and I hope it tallied correctly. John: Yeah. Trevor Burrus: If there are machines capable of stealing elections, then what's the point of voting? What are we doing? John: Mm-hmm. Trevor Burrus: You know, I hope that's not true. John: I think it's definitely happening at some level. Trevor Burrus: I think elections are being stolen. John: It's got to be, there's got to be fuckery happening at some level with all the elections, right? I mean, just the fact that we know for a fact that it's illegal to bring your ID to vote in California, that's election fraud at some level, right? It's just a very public, ridiculous level. But behind the scenes, if that's what we can see, if that's the tip of the iceberg, imagine what's under the water. Trevor Burrus: Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I haven't delved too deeply into election fraud, but it seems to be that they've been able to shade elections at least one way or the other. They were awfully confident they were going to win the Hillary Clinton election and then lost. But that may have just been that they didn't cheat enough. They thought they cheated enough, and then way more people showed up than they thought, and Trump ended up winning, you know? There's always that. I mean, I thought the first election, I'd lived in a very deep red area at that time, and I vote in every election, and I showed up to vote. And normally you'd wait two minutes, maybe five, and there'd be 10, 15 people in line. I mean, there were hundreds of people. The line was snaking around the parking lot. There was no question Donald Trump was going to win Alabama at the time. No question. But still that many people showed up to vote just because they wanted to be heard. They wanted it to be a landslide. They wanted it to be over the top. And maybe they cheated, but they didn't account for that taking place in swing states. People had never voted before showing up to vote. Yeah, and I wonder how much of what's going on is making people lose hope about voting in general. Especially young people, people who pay attention. Maybe they're losing hope, and it's going to get to a point where we don't even bother showing up to vote. It's all stolen. There's no hope. And you have it where more of the older people, the boomer types, they value voting more. They think it's important. And they're all going to show up no matter what. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the reason I hear people are not going to vote is not because they think they're going to be stolen. They just think that everybody on the ballot is compromised by the same political interest. So what's the point? What does it matter if I vote for you or for them? I'm not supporting these people. And if you want my vote in the future, don't become beholden to these other political interests. And we'll see if people stay home or not. I don't know. Yeah, man. The last few years, to me, just feels like it's been— There's so much shit happening in the news feed from the Trump-Butler thing to the Charlie Kirk assassination to, I mean, you name it, the Lindsay Clancy thing. It just never ends. I can't even remember. We forgot about the Trump assassination that happened in July, attempt in July. There was something big that happened like three weeks after that. And everyone had forgotten. The news cycle had done a complete— Was that the Olympics? Maybe. It was the Olympics shit. Yeah. I think it was the Olympics, the whole like trans-Olympics thing where they had like— Apollo dressed up as like a 400-pound like trans lady or something. Like everyone was losing their shit over that. Yeah. And like no one was talking about the Trump assassination anymore. But since that period, it's just felt like this hyper-normalization in the United States, which was like— There's this great documentary by this guy named Adam Curtis who did this documentary called Hyper-Normalization About the Fall of the Soviet Union. How like everyone in the Soviet Union before the fall knew that everything was fake. They were living in a fake world, but they were just sort of like going throughout their day. Pretending everything was fine, but they were all miserable. And they knew they were like going like inevitably this train was going to hit a wall. And that's sort of what it feels like to me lately. You feel like we're in that hyper-normalization now? Yes. Where there's just like a fucking— I feel like the last three years has been so crazy. A spaceship could land on the White House lawn tomorrow and people would be like, huh. Weird. What's for dinner? Yeah. Well, part of that is people are normal. I mean, people have lives. Yeah. You know, I've got eight kids. I don't have— Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's— How old are you? 46. Damn, bro. Yeah. You're getting busy. Yeah, my oldest is 19 and they go all the way down to five. No way. You started young. I got a grandkid, dude. You have a grandkid? I do. And where do you think all these gray hairs came from? But yeah, no, I mean, it's a— People have lives, you know? Yeah. My Saturday. My Saturday is at at least one ballpark, sometimes two or three, and then a soccer field. And then, you know, at night, you've got to, you know, see your kids and maybe watch a ball game with them. We watch a lot of Braves games. Maybe you sit down and watch a few innings of the Braves game. And then you've got to get everybody ready for bed and you've got to wake up the next morning. And then if you work outside the house, you've got to take a shower, get ready, drive the commute. You've got to go do your job. You come home five, six, seven o'clock at night. And the whole— The whole thing is over again. And you get in this dance of life. Yeah. Do I have time to worry about an assassination attempt for more than a little while? Right. You know, so the news cycle naturally is going to move on. You know, we don't have time to drill down. That's what I like about these podcasts. You do get hyper-specialization. You know, I like the fact that somebody—I don't know anything about the Lindsay Clancy case. I don't know much about it. But I like that if I wanted to know about it, I could probably take a day or two. And find somebody who's super hyper-specialized on it, watch 15 hours of their coverage, and be boned up on it really well. Yeah. Same thing with Charlie Kirk. You know, you can watch Candace, watch me, watch a few other people. Yeah. You could probably get a pretty good understanding of the major issues. Now, you may disagree with them, but at least we're raising them. Right. I like the hyper-specialization because it allows a busy people to have an outlet to go find a particular answer that doesn't rely on what Fox News is talking about that day. Because in 2004, that didn't exist. You know, if you just turned on and whatever Bill O'Reilly told you was important, that's what—I guess that's what we're talking about today. And that's not the case anymore. We have a lot of other options, a lot of hyper-special—you want to know about intelligence communities, they're podcasters, that's all they talk about. You want to know about military maneuvers, that's all they talk about. And so you can get up to speed in an entertaining way by somebody who— Who really has the time to dig in deep and says, okay, well, this is what I've learned, you know? And it's almost as if you did it, that you would have come to the same conclusion. Yes. But it's very different, though, for people like you and me than it is for your normal everyday person who's—you know, people whose job doesn't—you know, you're not talking into a microphone, you know? Right. Like most people, they don't have the luxury of sitting down and consuming eight hours of specific content on something because they don't have—they don't have no—there's no reason for them to learn that. Me and you, that's our job. Right. But like most people, you know, they're more worried about like, got to pick up the kids from school in time, got to make dinner, make sure everyone gets to bed before I can get at least six hours of sleep before I have to fucking do it all again tomorrow. Right. So like they're just hoping to get their 20 minutes before bed to scroll TikTok. Yeah. And that's—but if they wanted to, the hyper-specialized podcasters give them an outlet that they could if they wanted to. It's available. They could go bone up on some topic and they don't have to just open up a Google browser and go, okay, now— Well, where do I start? Yeah. I guess I'll type in Charlie Kirk's name and see. Or let me just turn on Fox News and see if they're talking about it. Oh, they're not talking about it? I guess I'm not going to learn about it today. Right. You know, we have these outlets that allow people to, if they want to, gives them an opportunity to get up to speed on a wide variety of topics. Yeah. You know, I watch all kinds of weird podcasts. Like, I get weird. Really? Oh, yeah. Like, I have—if it's physics and space and whatever, history, alt-history. I love weird stuff. It allows my brain to sort of be entertained. Yes. To think through issues without getting depressed, man. A lot of news just— I agree with you there. I'm 100% with you on that. I'd much rather, like, consider, has Mars always been in that spot? You know, this guy says it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. He's fun. It's funny how there's, like, a deep war between people who talk about, like, alternative history or, you know, alt-propulsion or, like, ancient civilizations. Between those people and, like, academia. Yeah. You know, like, the science, the people that are, like, institutional ivory tower academics. Like, they fucking hate the people who go on YouTube and talk about alternate theories. Yes. Or maybe we don't know everything about the past. Right. And it's just this crazy thing online that you see. Yeah. If you look into it, if you start reading the threads on Twitter, these people hate each other's guts. They do. And it carries over into politics as well, because you have your institutional ivory tower, you know, Charlie. You have Charlie Kirk people who think, Tyler Robinson did it. Why won't you listen to me? He absolutely did it. Everybody else is crazy. It's the same thing the physics professor at Harvard is saying. These guys are crazy. Why are they suggesting Mars might have made a close pass at Earth, you know, a few hundred years ago? You know, it's a pattern that plays itself out in every industry. And I'm a fan of the little guy. I'm a populist. I don't hide from it. A lot of people do, but I don't. I'm a fan of the little guy. I like the alternative story. I like to see if it's true. Mm-hmm. Because I think. Most of what I'm fed is garbage. And so I like to see, well, is what I'm fed about that? Is that garbage? Mm-hmm. You know, is what I'm fed about the pyramid, is that garbage? Is what I'm fed about the moon, is that garbage? Right. And the more you look into it, you're like, yeah, everything's fake. Everything we're fed on, every topic is fake. Mm-hmm. You know, it's almost like the majority position is always wrong. Mm-hmm. People want to fall into their. They want to fall into their tribe. And if they're in that academic tribe, like, it's automatic. Like, no matter what topic we're talking about, no matter what field you're just. Of research you're discussing, like, you're going to take the academic's side without even understanding the science or the nuance that's involved there. Yeah. You're just like. It's just like a team. It becomes a team sport. And then what's so great about podcasts is sometimes people will get those opposing views in front of them, in front of a microphone, unedited for three hours, and you'll be able to see, oh, my God, this guy's a fucking fool. Yeah. You know? Yeah. They have to defend themselves outside of a classroom. Yes. You know, in a classroom, they have a captive audience, and I'm going to lecture you, and at the end of the quarter or semester, you're going to regurgitate it back to me. And I'm going to judge you based on how well you regurgitate back what I lectured to you. Get them in a freewheeling podcast or get them talking to someone they don't agree with for a couple, three hours, and people go, wait a minute. Yeah. Maybe he doesn't have it all locked down. Yeah. And I think the establishment is frightened by that, and they feel their grip. They feel themselves losing their grip on everything. They're losing it on archaeology. They're losing it on history. they're losing it on the ability to control who killed Charlie Kirkhow and why. They're losing it on what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania. They're just losing that grip. You know, I mean, it was a truism in this country for a long time. Of course, you support the only democracy in the Middle East. Now you look around and people are like, that's not a minority position. That flipped quick. That flipped really quickly. And that's just one issue, you know, when every news organization is telling you you have to support Ukraine. And then you poll people and like half of them are like, no. What I'm concerned about is, I don't know how active you were on social media like before and during the pandemic. I don't know if you were doing your show. You probably, you weren't doing your show back then, right? So- Not the current. If you, I don't know how much attention you paid to YouTube back then, like in like the 2019, 2020, 21 era. But YouTube was like locked down. Yes. It was like, it was like North Korea. Yeah. If you said certain things, you could get strikes, get your monetization taken away. Like you had to walk on eggshells. Right. When you were doing like anything. I could do podcasts on completely different topics. And if the word vaccine was mentioned, we'd be getting red flags, demonetization, worried about losing our channels. It was really, really bad. And now ever since Trump got back in, it's been a total 180. Right. Where all bets are off. You can talk about, you can talk for four hours about the Holocaust being fake. No issues. You're gonna get millions of views. No, nothing like that. Nothing to worry about. I'm worried about if it's gonna swing back. It will eventually. And what that's gonna look like. Because Google's the biggest company in the world, right? Forget Fox and CNN. Right. Like imagine how much control and how much they could tighten the screws on us. No, it will swing back. It will inevitably swing back. The question is on what issues do they choose to start the swinging? Yeah. The pandemic was an easy one for them to weigh in on because that was, you know, you could make the argument, what's life and death? They're, you know, they're basically advocating for mass death. And they're undermining safety. And so it was a very easy issue for them to jump in on. I was on an FM radio show at the beginning of COVID. I got off the air. Was this after the legal career? Well, it was kind of that same time. What a crazy transition. Went from law to talk radio. Well, so I had a talk radio show for six or seven years. And I was practicing law at the same time. So I would go on in the morning and then practice law in the afternoon. Okay. And so I kind of did both. And I just love the art of broadcasting. I almost, I go back and forth. I've gotten used to being in my office with a camera. Took a little while to get used to. But I really like just being in a room, scattered radio equipment, you know, old timey talk radio feel and just letting it rip. Because you can vocalize things that aren't going to be seen on camera. And so you can really lose your mind in a radio studio. Whereas if you do it, on a camera, people are like, this guy's insane, you know. But it's, I was on the air until November of 2020. So the first year or so of COVID. And even then, man, like even local talk radio people were just getting hammered on the issue. And I remember I was, I got off the air before the vaccine came out. But I remember telling people, if they come out with a vaccine, there's no way in hell I'll take this. It will not be safe. It will not be effective. And even before the vaccine had come out, people were like, you can't say that. It'll be just as effective as AZT was, right? Yeah. It'll only kill hundreds of thousands of people. So no, I mean, I get it. I think it'll eventually swing back. I don't know what it swings back on. Even on the Charlie Kirk case, it's swung quite a bit. You know, in the very early days of the Charlie Kirk case, I used to show video of him getting taken down all the time. No red flags, no yellows, no anything. They just, it just went up. On YouTube? Yes. Wow. And then- A close-up shot? Yes. Wow. Yeah. And then maybe three months afterwards, couple of three months afterwards, I went back and noticed all those old videos had been demonetized. No strikes, but just demonetized. I'm like, okay. So I went back and edited it out. Just, you know, play the game. And then realized that at a certain point, they weren't even letting you show like his hand. I had a picture of his hand holding the microphone and that got demonetized. And I was like, oh, I can't even show his hand? Just a close-up? Yes. Cropped out? Yeah. I was just showing the position of his hand holding that microphone saying, how is he still holding this if he's dead? You know, if his, this is before the autopsy report came out, but the idea that he had been shot in the neck and all his vertebrae. I'm like, but he's still holding the mic. Right. And I'm just zoomed in close up on the hand and it gets flagged. I'm like, oh, okay. I see where they're going. So even on that, they've sort of changed. But if you play the game, you go back and say, oh, they don't like that. So I'll blur it out. I won't show that again. Right. They kind of have left the Charlie Kirk case alone quite a bit, but they'll eventually swing back. It's just what issues do they choose to swing back on? And my guess is it'll be some life or death type issue, either some future pandemic or some war position or, you know, the deep state intel community. It'll be something that they'll swing back on. You know, the more of these former intel guys who start going on podcasts is starting to become very pervasive. You've hosted a lot of them, Sean Ryan, hosts a lot of them. Julian Dory hosts a lot of them. Joe Rogan's host a lot of them. I mean, they host them because they're great. They're fun to watch. They're great shows. They're very interesting, charismatic. But I wonder at what point the intel community is going to lean on Google and say, stop this. This is not good for us. Well, I also wonder how many of those guys are pushed and incentivized by the intelligence community to go on podcasts. No, I wouldn't go on there, but yeah, I agree with you. I think there's a lot of that. I think that happens. I wonder how many of them are former. Well, once in the CIA, always in the CIA. Yeah, I wonder how many former. Unless you went to prison like John Cariocco did for blowing the whistle. And in that case, also, you could get crazy and say, wouldn't that be the best cover? The CIA sent me to prison. How the fuck do you think I'm still working for them? I've thought it. But Andy Bustamante, for sure, he's still CIA. Yeah, I mean, or at least sympathetic. I mean, you might just be institutionalized and you get out and you still have your preconceived notions that you, you know, you know what you're not going to talk about in order to protect the real secrets, the ones you still believe in. So I don't know. I mean, it's, but it's great theater. It's fun to watch. They're informative. They're interesting. But yeah, at some point, the intel community may lean into Google and say, knock this off. Right. Not this guy. Right. These other nine, we don't mind, but this guy, no. No more of him. Yeah. For sure. So it'll be interesting. So what's going to happen next with the whole Charlie Kirk thing? Is there like a schedule? Is there a schedule for like another hearing? Is there going to be like a full on televised trial on the future? Or like, what are your predictions for how this plays out moving forward? I assume the trial will be televised. I assume the judge will let more evidence be seen by the public than he saw, than we saw during the preliminary hearing. Because at that point, a jury's seated. You're obviously not tainting a jury pool, right? The presumption in Utah is, is that it's public, it's open, it's available for recording if you want to. That's the presumption in Utah. So I assume we'll see that. When that will happen, I don't know. I mean, it could be, it's a death penalty case. So it could be, there'll be a lot of litigation ahead of time. A lot of discovery disputes. There'll be motions in limine. There'll be 702 hearings for experts. There'll be a lot, a lot of litigation happening in the courtroom. How much of that is televised? I don't know. Yeah. But I imagine you'll start seeing discovery disputes pretty soon. I bet we won't hear about that publicly. We'll probably hear, but I mean, we'll see the filings. And if there's a hearing, we'll probably hear most of the hearing. There may be some that, that the judge says, turn the cameras off. But I think we'll even see most of that. But you'll start to see discovery disputes because the defense is going to look around and say, they're not giving us anything. Like they're telling you they're giving us stuff, but where's the gun? Where's the phone? Right. Where's the actual evidence? Don't give me a report. I want to see the gun. Where is it? You know, where's the bullet piece? Why can't our guy look at any of this stuff? I think that stuff will start to happen. And that's what I mean by if Tyler had died, none of this would be happening. We wouldn't care where the gun is. Who cares what his phone says? There would be no one, no one that would have a standing to ask for it. Right. But because he's alive, he's like, let me see the phone. Let me see the gun. Let me see the bullet. And, you know, I don't know that they planned for that. Yeah. I'm really curious to see what happens when I imagine he's going to have to take the stand at one point. Right. I go back and forth on that. I think it depends on on on his liability, like what he actually did, because you don't want to put him on the stand and then him have to take the fifth. Right. That's that looks worse. You know, it's better just to quietly take the fifth outside the presence of the jury and then get a jury charge that the judge says you're not allowed to interpret what that means. If you put him up there and they start saying, OK, well, did you drive anyone away from the scene? You know, well, yeah. You know, so I go back and forth on that. I honestly think you probably won't hear from him on the stand. But also, based on what we've seen so far, I think the prosecution has a very heavy lift to convict him. Very heavy lift. Yeah. I'm just curious if this is going to be one of those things that they just try to drag out forever and ever and try to like try to get it to lose public interest and maybe try to make this happen very quietly behind the scenes. No, it won't be quiet. There's been too much too much. Even if it's. three, four years from now, it's been way too long. much coverage to this point for it to be quiet when it goes to trial it will be covered it will be a massive media spectacle um but how do they do it like if it's if it is a cover-up how do they do this take a deal what i'm what i'm saying how do they do this whole trial without just letting so many more skeletons out of the closet yeah i mean they would be very incentivized to offer him a deal. If I'm right, and he was involved in some capacity that would earn him a life sentence anyway, then what's to stop him from taking a life deal for shooting Charlie Kirk? It's the same thing. For him, it's the same thing. And if they're like, look, we've got you. You're going to prison for life. We'll take the death penalty off the table. Go plead guilty. Let's go home. And that keeps his family safe. That keeps his friends safe. That keeps anyone who might've been involved from getting tied up in it. It ties a bow on it. It neatly puts it away. If you're him and you were involved in some greater plot, you might be very concerned about the people around you. You might be very concerned about the people around you. And you might be very incentivized to take a deal. Even though you didn't pull the trigger, you were still involved. You got caught. Yeah. Take the deal. That's a good point. And I wonder if that's not going to happen. I think it's the worst case scenario. Because I want to know what happened. I want to know what happened. And if he takes a deal, we will never know what happened. That's Jack Ruby shooting. Do you have any hope that we will find out what happens? Yeah. Really? I have some hope. I have some hope. I don't think we'll find out through the courtroom. I think if we find out what happens, it'll be- Hope's the wrong word. The word I was looking for, was, are you optimistic that we will find out? I'm optimistic that if the investigation, if the decentralized public investigation can continue, we will continue finding out more and more information. And we will at least learn whether or not Tyler Robinson did it. Whether or not we can figure out precisely the mechanism of death, who pulled the whatever. Yeah. I am- I'm perhaps less optimistic on that. I think that'll take a whistleblower. That'll take somebody saying, I can't live with myself. I've got to come clean. And I don't know whether that person exists or not. It'll take a lot of gumption. It'll take a lot of courage because that might not end well for you or the people closest to you. Right. Well, Barron, thank you for doing this, bro. I appreciate it. This was very fun. It was nice meeting you. And tell people that are listening where they can find your show, all that stuff, social media. Yeah. So social media is almost all under my name, Barron Coleman, B-A-R-O-N. If you just Google Barron Coleman, you'll find the YouTube channel. I think the X is going to show up. But if you go to Barron Coleman on X, or I think the tag on is Real Barron Podcast on YouTube. But if you just go to YouTube and type in Barron Coleman, you'll find it. Okay. Your channel is just called Barron Coleman, your name? Yeah. It's- We'll have it on the- Yeah. It'll be tagged on the whatever. Honestly, it's Real Barron Podcast is the title of the show. Okay. But I think the YouTube handle is Barron Coleman. The YouTube handle is at Barron Coleman. Okay. And then there's a Clips channel you can subscribe to. Cool, dude. Yeah. Well, all that shit will be linked below. And thanks again. I really enjoyed this, dude. I appreciate you having me. Thank you. This was super fun. All right. All right. Good night, folks. We're a locally owned bank built on relationships and personally committed to your success. No big bank bureaucracy, just a custom approach to help you thrive. From business loans to mortgages and everyday banking needs, Harmony Bank provides a secure, modern experience with a touch of Texas hospitality. At Cox, your internet and mobile price won't change for five years. That's five New Year's celebrations, five Valentine's Days, five Fourth of Julys, five Halloweens, five Thanksgivings, and five summers that go by too fast. Through it all, your price stays the same with our five-year price lock guarantee. Cox, a step ahead. Requires two gig speeds and gig unlimited mobile. Taxes and fees excluded from price lock. 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