Speaker 1Hello, welcome to the James Kennedy Podcast, episode number 43. Who would have thunk it? How have you guys been doing? You had a good week? I don't know about you, but I feel like my mojo is slowly kicking back into gear. It's been a long winter, man, you know, metaphorically and literally. But the sun is slowly starting to creep out from behind the clouds. I'm just feeling a little bit more of that kind of optimism and positivity kicking back in of all the things that I want to do and all the things I got coming up this year musically with the band. Of course, the second book and of course, lots of more awesome guests on the podcast. As mentioned on a previous episode, I've been forcing myself to try and get a little bit more back on the health and fitness trip, start doing the yoga again, trying to work on some, you know, breathing techniques, trying to get the old anxiety under control because I seem to have developed this weird anxiety disorder since the lockdown and everything with my father and stuff like that. It's almost like my nervous system is just on mode all of the time, you know what I mean? So I need to try and get a chill vibe going on. And more positivity and more creative activity once again, you know, but I just need to avoid getting ill anymore because, you know, that seems to be my new pastime, which is crazy because I literally never got ill. Like I said, I was the guy that was like, you know, everyone else would be governed whatever the cold and virus was going around. They would never touch me. It was crazy. But yeah, my system is on the floor, man. So I got to rebuild myself, put myself back together and get back on the saddle and get out and see you lovely folks and kick some asses on stage and make some noise together again. You know what I mean? It's been too long. Boy, I can't wait. Got a great guest lined up for you guys today. Speaking of making noise on stage, we've got a guy that's graced a thousand stages all over the world as the main sticks man for the likes of Annie Lennox, Anastasia, the wanted Will Young and the great Jeff Beck, as well as many, many others. This guy's got a lot of stories to tell and a lot of things to say. He's also the man behind the viral open letter on the issue of Brexit and how it's affected UK tour. He's been touring musicians and crews in the Schengen area post Brexit. An open letter that was read out in the House as a parliament and has been a massive catalyst in amplifying and raising awareness on this issue and opening up the conversation more broadly with his case, with his personal case study of how he was personally affected, which is absolutely shocking and tragic. And it's a travesty that this community and all of the industries associated with it, which are many, are still so badly affected by that ridiculously mindless decision that this country and this country are going to have to make. And this government made to leave the EU. So we're going to be talking the life as a session musician. We're going to be getting into advice for upcoming musicians who want to get into the game, the reality of touring, what it's like to hang out with these superstars. And I want to get an update on how Steve has now been since posting that famous open letter and how things are looking in his side of the industry and for him personally. So we've got a lot to get into. It's going to be a great chat. So stay tuned. Before we get into it, I just want to ask you one more time, have you subscribed to the podcast? If you haven't, please do. And please give us a follow or subscribe. Give us a share. Help me spread the word. This podcast is currently completely independent and advertising free. So all I've got is you guys to help me kick this out there. So if you give me a follow on whatever platform you listen to this on, whether it's Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Stitcher, CastBox, it's on everything. Give us a follow. Give us a star rating. Let people know that some good shit happening here and tell your friends to spread the word. So that's the nag done. Let's get down to business and bring on today's guest. Steve Barney is a drummer. He's a drummer and session musician who has taught the world performing with the likes of Jeff Beck, Annie Lennox, Anastasia, The Wanted, Will Young, and as I said, tons of others, which we're going to hear about. He's also been very vocal on the issue of Brexit and how it's affected our beautiful industry and that of many others. So let's welcome him onto the show, Mr. Steve Barney. Thanks for joining us, man. How are you doing?
Speaker 2Good morning. How are you, man?
Speaker 1I'm good. Thanks, bro. How are you doing?
Speaker 2I'm very good. I've been looking forward to this and it's good of you to ask me on the show.
Speaker 1Thank you. Well, thank you for taking it. Thank you for taking the time out to come and speak with us, man. We really appreciate it. And, you know, the listeners won't know, they won't be able to see, but we are currently both sporting very winter aware black hoodies, very stylish, I might say, very in season. We are, man. Anyone that follows me on Instagram will probably believe that I spent all of my life pouting in a leather jacket and ripped jeans. But the truth, unfortunately, is far, far from that. So we've got a load of stuff to get into today, man. You've got a really interesting career and life story. So far, there's tons of angles that I want to get through on this. But before we get into it, do you want to kind of like introduce yourself to those listeners that don't know of you yet or what you've been up to and give us an overview of who Steve Barney is and what you've been doing?
Speaker 2OK, well, my name is Steve Barney. And yeah, I've been a drummer as far as I can remember back, you know, from when I was when I was a very young kid and I just sort of grew up in a household with my dad's kind of enthusiasm for music and his record collection. And him kind of coming back from concerts and just generally smelling of music. Yeah. A concert experience where where I grew up in Norwich, there was a there was a venue on the North Norfolk coast in a place called West Runton, which is near Cromer for anybody that doesn't know. My dad would often go to this place called the West Runton Pavilion, where quite a lot of bands would go to prior to the UK tour starting. And kind of the warm up show. So my dad would often go there. He saw people like ACDC and, you know, with Bon Scott and a lot of the original kind of great rock bands. So he would often come back from those from those kind of gigs and kind of, I guess, wake me up to say good night. But then I could just sort of feel this kind of I could almost hear sort of I don't just mean the smell. That sounds kind of I don't mean a bad smell. I mean, like enthusiasm in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of lovely music. So, yeah, as I said, I sort of grew up in a house where, you know, music is kind of a music was was kind of very at the forefront of the household, you know, and that's not a musician and neither is my mom. But I guess a little turning point for me getting into music was in 1980 when I was nine. My dad and my uncle got me or got them and me concert tickets for Genesis. The band Genesis were playing. They were playing like a UK theater tour, I guess, even though they were like arena sized bands. And they wanted to sort of reconnect to do like this. I think they did like a 40 day UK tour.
Speaker 1So you were like nice and up close and you could see the drums.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. And we, you know, like Genesis of all places came to Great Yarmouth on the coast, which is which is mad to think that that happens. But yeah, I again, you know, I think I knew it was a big deal. My uncle getting the tickets for the concert kind of queued all night with a sleeping bag and kind of blast. Wow. Old school kind of way. So even though I wasn't aware of like how special it was that we got these tickets, I kind of, I think I kind of, and even to this day can kind of sort of remember almost the feeling of like the golden ticket, the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe just that night seeing Genesis, you know, and Phil Collins and Chester Thompson, the drummers in particular really hit a kind of a sort of really, really sort of struck a chord with me, right? And I pretty much left the concert that night. I mean, I want to be a drummer, you know?
Speaker 1Beautiful. Yeah, man. I could totally relate to that because I had a very, very similar experience at the same age as well. Like when I was nine, that's when I came across the guitar and discovered my love for the instrument. And I was just obsessed, you know, ever since then, you know, I can still remember that moment. Like, you know, it's crystallized in my memory forever. So I can totally relate to that. So you knew right there and then that you were a drummer and that was your calling and you were in for life.
Speaker 2I did. I was already, I think I was already playing. But that, that concert, I was already playing. So that night just sort of felt like I was sort of struck by a bolt of lightning. And that's so corny, it's so corny to say. And when you repeat these things, it just sounds like a cliche, corny story. But I really, I can't be more honest about how I felt that night and subsequent kind of concerts that dad told me to see. I saw the great Buddy Rich, jazz drummer. Wow. Yeah. Playing Norwich at the Theatre Royal, which I knew was kind of a special thing. We even kind of hung on the side stage trying to catch it. We were watching before we arrived and we were waiting. I said, oh, dad, you know what? We might as well just go in. He's not coming. And my dad said, don't just wait five minutes. You'd never, like, I said, the show's going to start. We're going to miss it. And there, I think it was a, either like a BMW or a Mercedes or a Rolls Royce or something quite posh. And I, and I stepped Buddy Rich and we kind of quickly met him and I shook his hand, you know. What? I think it was 10 or 11. So that felt special as well.
Speaker 1But. So you got, you had a cool dad then. Fair play. Your dad, you know, he was responsible for all of this.
Speaker 2I did. I did and do have a cool dad. He's not, he's not in the best of health these days, but he's still a very, very cool man. And he's, he's got a lot to answer for, for the way my, my life went, you know.
Speaker 1He sounds like a legend, man. And we know, we thank him as well for the gift of music that you've given us over all these years. So fast forwarding then from there into you becoming a professional session drummer, you know, how does that happen? How did it happen for you? Because I'm always interested in how people get into that world.
Speaker 2Well, I'll fast forward. I'll fast forward through all the years of kind of being, being in Norfolk until I moved to Liverpool where I live. I mean, now I've, I've been in next year will be 30 years since I moved up here. Wow. And it was, it was a leap of faith. So when you say professional, I consider myself when I, although I had a great grounding in Norwich and Norfolk playing around the pubs and clubs and kind of cabaret circuit and summer seasons, I started very young, you know, I was in quite young bands doing talent competitions, you know, all sorts of stuff. It's just playing, mate. It's my job. as possible. But yeah, I consider from 94 is when I kind of left my normal job and I kind of went you know I've got a I just got to give it a go so I answered an ad in the NME in the Melody Maker for an advert for a band up in Liverpool called Bully Rag and it was a heavy rock kind of ragga rap sort of crossover mishmash of styles with a very scouse kind of sort of attitude about it and I answered this ad and I came up to Liverpool for an audition and I got the job so that was that was me kind of making or rather taking the leap of faith and I'm really proud of myself man that I'm sitting here almost 30 years later you know still you know playing drums and that was that's become my kind of job you know albeit you know.
Speaker 1So you were in the band it wasn't a session gig you were actually in in that band?
Speaker 2I was in the band yeah. Nice. So I joined the band as I said in 94 and between 94 and 2000 we got signed to Mercury. We made one album released you know about four singles we did an awful lot of touring quite often supporting quite larger alternative rock acts you know I mean rock hadn't really broken on commercial radio as much as it did you know then and who who knows what would have happened if we'd have been signed slightly later you know but you know I don't regret anything and it was a great grounding being in that band there was some great musicianship and it was a it was a you know it was a great time. I remember I had an album with a guy called Chris Hughes producing who was um the drummer from Adam and the Ants. Yep yep. Who went on to um produce Tears for Fears and Paul McCartney and Robert Plant so that was very
Speaker 1That must have been awesome man.
Speaker 2Um yeah but so yeah so that kind of brought me to Liverpool mate and um and when that band kind of disbanded or imploded like bands do. Yes they do yep. I was kind of like man what are we what are we going to do and I really didn't feel like continuing down the band kind of route. I sort of just reached out to various producers and musicians and managers that I'd met and was just trying to carve a route of getting something more freelance and and self-employed. Right. Which does take a while when you put all your eggs into um a band basket you know and you suddenly tell people that you want to be a session drummer but yet you've got no previous experience of session. Right right. No one you know they obviously people ask well what have you done then you go well I've been in this band for six years. Yeah right. So it took it took a few. People to really um god bless them give me give me you know um an opportunity and strangely I took a massive left turn musically from what I'd been doing and um I got the job as a session player for a pop girl group called Atomic Kitten.
Speaker 1Wow that was your first gig.
Speaker 2Yeah that was my first session gig. That's not bad. And they were they had a number one at the time with Hole Again you know the pop song Hole Again and we ended up doing a live top of the pops thing and um you know it wasn't playback. It was you know pretty pretty simple song but that was a big deal man I mean getting top of the pops for me was as we all kind of remember or people of our age at least. Speak for yourself. Speak for yourself granddad. I'm probably a lot older than you but um but no ultimately we anyone that knows the top of the pops knows that was a great you know boost for me.
Speaker 1That was the one to have on the cv for sure yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah and I subsequently um continued to play for them and the manager. Brought in a musical director which is quite common as you'll be aware and um but also what you'll be aware of many musicians will be aware of is that musical director tends to bring they tend to bring in their own players you know again because of uh previous experience and then working with them or friendships with them but it was I was fortunate enough that there was a guy who was brought in to do the md for them called Mike Stevens he's a great musician and uh subsequently became a great friend. Yeah. And again he was a real golden ticket for me I didn't realize it at the time but ultimately he um he came down and he kind of checked I guess me and some of the other local players out and and kind of kept me on board you know so I did that for a couple of years you know
Speaker 1with them. That's awesome man I mean Jesus Christ what an opportunity to kick off with that must have been amazing and is it is it like it is in other branches of this industry whereby you know once you've kind of got that first foot in the door that it is a lot. I think it did I think the sort of I think work work can
Speaker 2breed work and if people just see you about and on things they can think of you I mean oddly enough I mean um I guess London being the kind of center of you know things in this country that everyone kind of seems to think you have to live in London to be you know doing stuff. And for the most part that that's kind of true but I never wanted to move to London I've lived and worked in London on and off at various points and I really love London but financially I wanted to see if I could make it work staying in Liverpool yet working in London and well that's not always been the case and doing these types of interviews that we're speaking now and I kind of fast forward and edit my life people may think that just because you're asking me about my career that we go from one thing to the next because I'm trying to remember. The good stuff yeah and it is good and I've been incredibly lucky mate but um but there's a lot of kind of highs and lows mate that there really is I've been I've been um I've had times where there's not been so much work so I'm not trying to go off kind of a subject here but I'm just trying to sort of get a balance so when you talk about um once you're in kind of breed work it kind of it definitely does but I think ultimately for me in particular meeting Mike Stevens that musical director in particular. And really helps me a lot and he you know while he put other people up for lots of gigs he definitely you know gave me a call for some really great work which you know you know which we can we can talk about you know.
Speaker 1Oh yeah 100% man we've got to get into all that stuff but I think it's really interesting that you mentioned the balance because that's something that I'm personally interested in as I've mentioned on previous episodes because I think it's healthy for people who are coming up in the game who are starting out you know they're working their ass off they're doing all the things that the rule book says you know be professional. Fresh not be nice be easy to work with and all that sort of stuff they're doing all that stuff they're talented as all hell and they just cannot catch a break for whatever reason they're just not getting any luck at all and they're getting despondent they're questioning their decisions you know they're struggling with mental health or struggling with their finances they have to juggle day job and stuff so I think it's really good that you mentioned that it wasn't just one straight line from you know Atomic Kitten and Anastasia Annie Lennox Jeff Beck just win after win after win after win because that just makes other people then think oh shit well. What's wrong with me then you know so I think it's really cool that you mentioned that reality because I'm sure in between all of those amazing successes you had that there were periods when you were struggling or questioning your decisions or you know.
Speaker 2Definitely and you know what I still do I mean I don't mind being honest about it even to this day like I mean I know we're going to speak about my kind of situation that happened last year with my open letter and the the 9180 situation I got caught up in. Yeah so even to this day there is struggles for us all with work and let's be honest I mean I'm a drummer so let's talk about drummers there's some incredible drummers around many of them are my friends and peers and like we're all eating off the same plate so and you know there's everyone can offer something different so so there is there's a lot of really good people around and it sort of sometimes it's luck just being in the right place at the right time some people network like hell to try and get work off the next man or woman do you know what I mean and and find out what's going on. Right. Yeah and I think that's the thing that's really important is that people just wait for the phone call and sometimes you get a phone call out of the blue that you've not tried to get a gig for and it just happens some of the best bits of work I've had have come to me like that which I'm very grateful for it's just whatever you want to call it luck or my name just kind of crops up at the right time but no I think I think it is important to speak honestly about this because I think no one likes I think for their own pride nobody likes to talk about the down times because who the hell wants to hear about that. Yeah. But if you just talk about as you just pointed out and just talk about all the gigs and the high times then people that and I do want to inspire young people you know who are sort of up and coming and want to do say freelance or session work that it is possible but uh but maybe it'll make them kind of understand that it's not all sort of stepping from one tour bus to the next you know. Yeah yeah. On the motorway without even without even going home like wow he's like he's literally just going from one bus to the next to a to a jet. Well that's what it looks like. Sometimes and sometimes mate it has been like that. Right right. You're lucky going man this is great and then sometimes you think man have I upset somebody. It's a balance and you have to the irony is sort of self-employment and the word self is in there and you have to believe in the self because if if no one um you know if you don't believe in yourself how the hell is anyone else going to sort of trust your self-employment so it's kind of. Yeah. It's a constant you know it's a constant evaluation and trying to improve yourself and mate I just try and be a decent person when I'm on the road with everyone and you know I'm certainly not you know the best drummer in the world I'm not even the best drummer in my house. My son started to play drums you know. Oh look out. I'd like to think and hope that I've been a really solid reliable um drummer for artists to kind of have with on stage and I think that says a lot about. But my particular drumming is that I've been solid and reliable and hopefully make everything feel good on and off stage you know i think
Speaker 1that makes a difference as well isn't it because it's not a meritocracy in the sense of it's just about how good you are you know you've got to be easy to work with you've got to be reliable and professional and all those things as well especially as a session player so i think that's worth pointing out for for up and coming session players as well who are trying to get into the games and it's not necessarily just about being better than the next guy because as you said there's so many fucking great musicians out there you know what i mean and to think that we're in competition with each other i think is is the wrong mindset i'm not in competition with anybody in my community we're a community of brothers and sisters you know i mean but where you'll gain the upper hand i suppose is in those other things you've got to be personable you've got to be reliable you've got to be professional and you've got to be able to people have got to be able to work with you because it's tough on the road man you're in whatever capacity you know
Speaker 2absolutely everything you've just said i agree with i mean you literally if you've got all the the most technical chops and ability with your instrument in the world but you're a complete and not a dick and you have no you have just no sense of people around you and their their space and their well-being you don't know what people are going through on the road exactly you know obviously everyone's got individual lives back home yet you're on a yet you're on a tour bus together and you're sharing each other's days and and let's face it just stating the obvious there's an awful lot of hours more hours off stage than there are on so while the music and the stage and the show is ultimately number one that's the reason we're all there it's vitally important to give each other the respect and you know just trying to be aware of each other's kind of personal space and and actually just try and you know just try and be a good person to be around and i'm sure i'm not that all the time but i do try and i do like having a laugh and i do like trying to you know make make the room happy you know yeah um but no i think it's important like you sort of say to find that balance with uh with not just being a crazy technical musician because that will not get you or that will not keep you the gig you know i mean long long term
Speaker 1yeah oh no i know from personal experience some of the best musicians i've ever played with in my life would just be impossible to be in a band with and ultimately when you're on the road especially when you're in an original band struggling on a shoestring budget you know you just haven't got the infrastructure to be fucking putting up with that stuff i'd rather go with someone who's not as good but like yeah it's fucking sane you know yeah yeah
Speaker 2i agree man i agree
Speaker 1well sticking with the the reality of that this lifestyle for a second then let's let's let's pick a little case study so what would say an average day look like you're in the middle of a tour with an artist the level of someone like anastasia what would what does an average day look like what's what's the reality
Speaker 2of that life okay so if you're uh on a you're pretty much be doing it on a tour bus as far as travel's concerned unless there's kind of sort of long long journeys where you've got to get from one country to the next if you're just doing it on a tour bus you've got to do it on a tour bus if it's doable by bus they will do it in that particular way um but your your average time um you would wake up in the morning in your bunk and uh i mean this is going to sound crude but it's kind of true if you wake up and uh the call of nature is calling and i and i don't mean uh i don't mean a number one sorry so um quite often and also for anyone that doesn't know tour buses you're not allowed to do a number two on there so you might want to start your day i think you're very primeval here talking about stuff but it's true man you might be parked up outside the venue you might be you know throwing some clothes on you might be trying to bang on the door to try and get in the venue early which is usually locked because you're trying to go to the toilet i mean but no so so you would so eventually you would kind of get up and um the catering would be there in the venue and you'd go in and you'd have your catering and uh have a shower and then you'd have sort of time throughout the day to do you know it's kind of free time if if there's nothing to be kind of um improved on or something to be learned with regard to the show you would use your time to do that but i would spend my day either you know sort of free and sort of like traveling around the city that i'm in to just you know sort of take a bit of interest in where i am yeah nice or catch up with the email you know and then like before you know after having some lunch you'll be kind of ready for an art like a mid-afternoon sound check and then after sound check you would you know you would sort of um obviously like the band would sound check first and then the artist would stick it in say anastasia she would come on and do whatever songs that they want to check from the night before or something yeah and then you'd have a couple of hours before the show do the show and then you're back on the bus and and you kind of and you just really try and keep an eye on kind of your hours because after the elation of being on stage even though the applause is connected to you it's not for you but you can't help but be caught up in the the the emotion of uh of making people feel good mate let's be really honest about what it is yeah when
Speaker 1you're up there doing your thing you're up there smashing shit out of your kit you know up in the lights you got the applause you got the adrenaline you're just as much in it as anybody you know
Speaker 2it's just making i think it's entertaining people and when you come out of a room say for example two thousand three thousand or or even one you know whatever five hundred people five people you've entertained people it feels good yeah you know i mean and you and you've shared your kind of your talent with people so yeah so it takes a while to come down from that you know so you might be on the bus having a few drinks but trying not to let that go to kind of sunrise it's a bad balance like with everything you spoke about musically it's a balance as well within how to look after yourself on the road oh 100 yeah which people have been tested and i'm you know i'm no angel with regards to that but my other you know that's just one sort of scenario of a day with you don't always stay you know on the bus you don't always sleep on the bus in hotels so you've got it kind of varies from gig to gig and artist to artist there's you know i had a had a great experience in 2019 going to japan for the first time and i was there working with a phenomenal guitar player songwriter called hotay who's um most famous internationally for the soundtrack to kill bill ah you've probably got this instrumental that he did but i'm sharing this because it's the absolute opposite of the anastasia scenario or that particular tour bus where i was based in tokyo in a you know i had my own apartment um in tokyo nice for three three and a half months and um he predominantly works at just weekends so like friday and saturday you'll do a show and we had the whole week off which was just an absolute joy free holiday to be on me well don't say that to my wife yeah you're working really hard it was really really no it was as far as like you know the way we could live and and enjoy the country and that city was was a great experience incredible yeah but sort of his particular music was seriously high energy and in a funny way to sort of have a whole week off of not drumming and then having to go in once a week at that level was definitely psychologically more of a challenge you know i mean to kind of so so it was very different but yeah yeah that's two scenarios those are
Speaker 1the true riches i think you know that we gave because money comes and goes you know good times come and go and i think when you look back on your life though and you've got all those stories and hundreds of others i'm sure and those memories that's priceless you can't put a price on that stuff can you know you've you've seen things that most people won't and you've done it because of
Speaker 2music you know absolutely i mean i you know i'm so grateful to be able to say you know sort of you know a lot of the things that i've been connected to you know and i've been really lucky in my life mate and um for example like we just talked about hotei to be in japan with one of the biggest artists in japan on a japanese stage it's just the best feeling in the world to be so far away from home with an artist that's singing in a different language yet you're there experiencing that it's just you can't be anything other than grateful to be there really for it was a it was a that was a particularly special one oh i
Speaker 1can imagine man yeah jesus christ what a trip that must have been
Speaker 2i was so lucky thinking about man if it had happened a year later and the pandemic hit it would have been god knows what would have happened oh so you
Speaker 1were this was 2019 there was the
Speaker 2summer before yeah yeah oh shit oh yeah you were lucky that was literally i got home mid middle of september of um you know of 2019 and he would have thought six months later it would have been like what happened happened oh yeah
Speaker 1man that is some seriously good fortune right there i mean to have to have lost out on that amazing opportunity and experience just for the sake of a few months difference before the pandemic jesus christ that would have sucked big time so let's name some of the other guys that you've worked with and we've mentioned quite a few of them already i'm sure who have been some of the other notable and awesome artists you've had the pleasure to pound the skins behind well
Speaker 2just just last year so after the pandemic in the couple of years which was a particularly you know challenging time for everybody let's face it but particularly the arts but just last year going back out um with an artist called gianna nannini who's an italian singer and she uh asked a friend of mine a guitar player british guitar player friend of mine called milton mcdonald to suggest um like some british drummer names for her to kind of think about for a tour so yeah i am i i spent all of last sort of summer out with gianna doing doing stuff which is great again being predominantly traveling around italy with a with an italian singing artist you know was another phenomenal especially after the two-year pause that a lot of musicians have felt i felt very fortunate to get back out and doing doing what i did but yeah i mean going back to the other names you mentioned um there's a lot of phenomenal artists this year you know sort of stuff with um again going back the guy that i mentioned earlier on he um he put me up for that after seeing me play with jeff beck the following uh the previous year and um i think you know god bless jeff beck you know who we've sadly just lost earlier this month yeah i was so so lucky to to spend you know a small period of my career with him making an album um uh which which came out in 2003 and and then uh it was during 2002 that i was recording that album with jeff that he got asked to do um a three-night career retrospective at the royal festival hall and i think just maybe because i was lucky enough to be on the session at that time playing drums on this particular record and this call came in for these um shows he asked me if i would be the house drummer for the for that event i was like sure yeah and i thought about all the incredible drummers that have been you know with jeff over the years who i would have to try and emulate which is just when you got names like simon phillips and terry bosio and minnie collier i'm not even gonna i'm not even gonna i don't even belong anywhere near you know those guys but the type of album we were making was more incoherent with say what i play like you know i think i guess heavy heavy groove orientated rock kind of beats is the album that we were making it was it was closer to say chemical brothers and prodigy wow from a rhythm section point of view but anyway i said yes and i found myself in september of um 2002 in the royal festival hall with jeff beck for three nights um with a whole host of friends and guests of jeff's that that we got to play with every night from john mccloughlin wow from the marna vishnu orchestra roger waters from oh no my hero mate we played uh what god wants do you know that song yes yeah parts one and three or something oh shit um it's a great singer called image in the heat of the night yeah jennifer batten the guitar player to michael jackson yeah mate it was like this is your life you know it's just unbelievable but my friend mike stevens was in the audience that night watching me after seeing me play with atomic kitten which is such a juxtaposition of you know it couldn't be more different from the pop gig i've done but i think i think that showed my my versatility and when he got the call the following year to put a band together for andy lennix's first solo tour he kindly put me forward so i went over to annie's house and um we met and we talked about music and she played me her new album wow it was yeah that was the audition just kind of meeting her and listening to her album and then i got that i got i fortunately got offered that tour and i toured with her in 2003 4 7 and then 2010 we did promo for her christmas um inspired album called the christmas cornucopia so and she's an amazing amazing artist as you know yeah and everybody knows that there you know i absolutely love playing with ellie lemmings it was a probably one of the best touring times of my life oh wow man playing with her you know um we did a tour in 2004 opening for sting jesus across north america so to you know to be on stage with annie for an hour go and grab a beer and then watch sting play some police classics it was just the best man i think
Speaker 1i'm done with this conversation now man i
Speaker 2don't want to hear anymore no no but no but as we know me there is highs and lows and stuff i'm just sharing some golden nuggets and oh dude fortunate opportunities when you
Speaker 1shared you know you've given us you know some of the the realities of this life so yeah man i mean these are the like i said these are the rewards man so you got to revel in it because you
Speaker 2have done this shit apparently so i mean it's quite funny i'm not kind of like with a twist of irony but quite often when you jump off these tours and it doesn't take long for me to get into sort of home life and right and you think and you was that me didn't i mean it was and it sounds kind of silly that i'm saying that probably but it's like for example even me reminiscing something with the great jeff bett which was you know uh 20 years ago now wow and i did and i think why did i really do that and then i you know because i keep kind of stuff and i've got my memories thankfully and i know i did that so it is yeah it's fortunate to do it 100 man
Speaker 1yeah no that does make total sense because i mean i had this conversation with benji webb just a few episodes back and he was saying you know when you're up there doing all these amazing festivals and stuff and there's no fucking hundreds of thousands of people there or whatever you're kind of for want of a better word you are kind of working you know it's not you know you're not working in that sense like you know you're just you're just punching in the clock whatever but you are immersed in what you're doing you know you're concentrating on that and if you stop and soak it all up for a second it throws you off your groove you know what i mean or you start panicking about it so you're kind of just in the moment doing it and then it's only afterwards when the adrenaline dies down it's like fuck man did i just do that you know
Speaker 2you're right i mean when you're when you're up there on the drum riser you know as we're talking about drums you know that yeah you you really no matter what kind of um musical jobs i've had whether it be some people might kind of you know my kind of smirk when we talk about atomic hit for example but every single you know gig whether it be a pop thing or a robust kind of rock thing like hotei or bully rag my old liverpool band i was in or gianna nannini last year you know playing sort of big powerful italian ballads you're right you're right you're right you're right you really have to focus on every style of music that you're playing and be honorable to that music as you would know oh 100 so you're right i mean in the moment you really are focused on making things feel right you know you're the anchor of the band hopefully and um just trying to make everything feel good and but i have um unfortunately moved um about uh 14 months ago and right so trying to get sorted with um i've sort of held on to a lot of stuff for my career being i don't just mean the instruments but like you know that sounds crazy but tour passes laminates right uh itineraries i haven't thrown them away because to me they mean so much to me yeah like some people just probably at the end of the tour would throw them in the bin to me every single one of those passes laminates bracelets you know around you know backstage bracelets or you know this they're all golden nuggets of my career and i don't know you know i just i've been actually sorting through them in the last week which has been quite mad you know to look back on some of the stuff and it's reminded me of
Speaker 1these things i think it's important to do that you know because yeah like it so much happens in life then like i said you got you know your home life and stuff to deal with it as well so they're your mementos you know that's your kind of legacy really of all the things you've done and it's a reminder for yourself as well because you know then that fast-paced lifestyle of stage to tour bus to stage and then another tour and stuff like that you're bound to forget some stuff you know and these are precious memories man i mean you know you mentioned jeff beck what was it like working with jeff i mean obviously we lost recently one of the best guitar players you know the world known um so i think it'd be cool to give a little shout out and a nod to to the incredible mr jeff beck you got to work with the man himself what was what was it like that must be crazy it was
Speaker 2amazing i mean when i got the call from a producer friend called andy wright who um i'd met while i was in body rag he was one of the guys i'd reached out to after my band broke up saying listen i'm looking for session work you know and andy kind of um and andy sort of called me maybe a sort of six months to a year after i'd first got in touch with him about trying to get work and he said mate i've got a project for you which i think you'd be great for and i was like oh great i presumed it would be a new artist or something something fresh that he was working on and i said who is it he said i was um jeff beck and i couldn't believe it i said have you got the right steve he said oh definitely he explained like so andy had already done a really successful album with jeff called you had it coming i think that was out in 2001 and it was quite a um quite a for jeff it was they had a really phenomenal cover version of nitin sawney's song called uh nadia i don't know if you've heard of it you should check that out it's amazing okay so anyway um he said listen mate come down to metropolis studios in chiswick we'll get you a great kit sand you know we'll play the song for a couple of hours jeff will walk in you'll sound great he'll love you and that's exactly kind of what happened i kind of was playing this song that andy put up for me to play to and then i kind of was so focused on the kind of drummer my head was down and i looked through to the control room and there was jeff beck kind of arms in the air giving me a great what is jeff beck who i've seen in like 85 with terry bozzio on the guitar shop tour so there i was somehow i don't know how i mean i don't know how you get from being kind of a teenager in an audience at the birmingham nec watching the guy to being in a studio and suddenly he's on the other side of that i imagine i was just you know very very lucky um but you know that he was he was great to work with it was i ended up contributing maybe to six songs on those sessions oh wow one of which won jeff um a grammy jesus following yes it's great
Speaker 1work dude man it's
Speaker 2called plan b it's best i think it won best rock instrumental performance wow amazing um but jeff was just and will always be you know the greatest guitar player i think this world has ever seen yeah i don't know what can you say that hasn't been said before about him already he was i'll tell you one thing that maybe not people don't know about jeff is that he he's a really funny guy yeah right he had a great sense of humor i mean um we were always laughing and joking around you know one of the things some reason that came to sort of mind recently because i found a letter that he wrote to me after i did those royal festival hall shows and he kind of he reminded me because he said oh maybe we should do a bum gravy tour over the usa and i remembered that we were joking about coming up with the kind of band names funny names for our our band you know our sort of yeah and uh one of the names was funf you know which is german for five i believe we we thought we'd call ourselves funf right and uh and then bum gravy was obviously bum gravy was randomly one that jeff seemed to love and that's the one he remembered but so no he loved he loved to laugh mate but he had a otherworldly ability on the guitar as we all know and it was you know to to play with him in a studio context was just enough to meet the guy would have been enough yeah but for me to get that experience of playing with him at the royal festival hall was just something i'll never i'll never forget and he was a you know he was a he was a great guy man and um yeah he's gonna be dearly missed but i think forever cherished and listened to by people
Speaker 1oh 100 i mean you know what an absolutely priceless experience and of course you know big shout out and respect to jeff you know rest in peace jeff beck rest in peace what a loss yes all of us you know it really was for you i mean what an experience that must have been to have actually played with the man let alone meet the guy you know totally well things like that are obviously they're a dream gig right and so many of the things you've talked about just sound like they've been incredible experiences both personally and musically but i would love to know for the sake of gossip and i'm not asking from your personal experience because i know that obviously you can't name names but do you know of anyone in a similar field to yourself that's who's had the opposite experience of working with an iconic artist who turns out to actually be a fucking dick oh
Speaker 2definitely yeah there's definitely people that um people within our industry kind of know about that are very very difficult to kind of work for and seem to sort of uh go out of their way to make your life a misery it might be it might be an incredibly well-paid gig right it so once you've done it and you're associated with that name but ultimately i don't know especially the older i get you know would you really want to put up with being treated so bad by by somebody you know i mean or just you know someone who's a bully you know i mean even in that you know or just yeah yeah but there are there are people out there but i wouldn't say i hear about loads of people like that but but there are people that there's a there's definitely one name that i wish i mean i'll tell you off here mate tell me later there's a one person who's meant to be really just you know not a great artist to work for but yet right it's held in such high regard you know but yet not not kind of great but yeah i guess you know artists they have you know they you know especially i mean again no names even with the people that i've worked with but you know even some of the artists that i've worked with i think in the build-up to it so so during rehearsal periods during that period the incubation period where you go out for a tour when maybe the artist might be still trying to get comfortable with the band or comfortable with what they want they may not they may have an idea of what they want from a song or a show but it takes trying to add every day and then any awkwardness they might have about explaining to you what they mean even you know there's been scenarios with artists where they're feeling quite vulnerable during the rehearsal period and you quite often feel way more than on the tour that you're really earning your money during the rehearsal period because right yeah because it's more intense you know basically yeah yeah but you know that's part of the job and you are there hired for the job and you keep routine in the songs as many times as an artist would need um but yeah we just we all do our best you know
Speaker 1all right nicely dodged i guess some names here after we finish recording well we need to shift gears now because we've been talking for the past 40 minutes about how awesome this line of work is and this industry and this gift of talent and music and joy that we we've give to people with what we do but you've also become known for an open letter that you posted on the internet last year about how brexit has personally affected you and it went viral didn't it i was there in the house of parliament when your open letter was read out to the mps and the lords that were there and they couldn't believe what they're hearing it was a real talking point it became a central theme actually of the of the rest of the proceedings because they just couldn't believe what they were hearing and you kind of really had a lot of help to amplify that conversation around this issue about how it brexit has been so disastrous for the music industry not just the musicians but the crews and the lighting techs and the sound techs and everybody and so many different associated industries and of course completely unassociated industries as well it's just been bad all around if we're honest right but your open letter which went viral has really helped to um personify this issue away from cold facts and figures about how this actually affects real world music and music industry and i think it's really important to work with people's lives and we've heard about all of the wonderful experiences that you've had and your long hard-won professional career as a musician and then you wrote about how all of that has come to a devastating and terminal end as a result of the british public's decision to leave the eu now some of my listeners might know about this already because we have done quite a few episodes specifically on this issue now we had tim brennan on of course from the carry-on touring campaign we've had kevin brennan the mp talking about it we've had um our mutual friend mr paredia up gwyneth was on a few episodes back talking about this and several others as well but as your personal story has become so central to this issue now i would love to reiterate it again just for those people who who need this repeated as to as to exactly why this issue is so important so if possible if you could if you don't mind going over this again um tell the listeners what happened with you in the anastasia tour what
Speaker 2went down sure so anastasia is an artist that i've been working with since 2009 and you know i was i was kind of um set to do her tour of late last year which the rehearsals were going to be starting in um late august and um basically um what what happened was um after the after the two-year pandemic that we that we all know about i unfortunately got asked as i spoke about earlier to go on tour with john and nini so so there i was back back on the road enjoying myself playing these shows with this great italian artist and sort of you know apart from the weirdness of just going back out there and being on the road and you know once once you've got familiarized with how to play drums again and how to tour again and and how to wear a mask and uh basically um it kind of dawned on me hang on a minute this brexit thing has happened you know i obviously i knew it happened but what it reminded me that there was a there was a kind of a 19 180 scenario with basically 19 90 days in every 180 days that british residents are allowed to be in the schengen eu area so i obviously was out with an italian artist predominantly touring the eu so i started to count my days up and i flagged it with anastasia's management and production manager saying listen i'm out with this um italian artist and i'm just thinking ahead here but in order for me to be able to do this i'm going to have to do this but in order for me to do the anastasia tour which was going to be at least six weeks in the eu that i knew because i was with this italian artist that it was going to be without without some type of visa extension on the 90 days um that we were going to run into trouble so because no one's because this is a whole new dawn of this situation and i've been going backwards and forwards like all of us to the eu for years without counting at all you know it's not a bit about counting or the end of freedom of movement as we near it and so i was aware of you know the more stuff i was doing with john and anini the the days were adding up and it's sort of you know basically in a nutshell it came to a head when you know i was speaking to the production manager for anastasia about visa waivers and stuff and really like the more we looked the more we realized it doesn't there isn't a schengen wide visa that covers all of the schengen it doesn't exist and so i was aware of that and i was aware of that and i was there is individual i think you can get individual visas for each schengen state but that's individually yeah purchasing a visa which they would need flight details hotel details where you're staying and quite often as any touring person will know a lot of those details for the hotels and flights aren't confirmed till quite close to the to the tour you know so it was going to be non-impossible it's basically red tape it would take me forever to kind of get that story so without a full um schengen wide visa i was unable legally to do the anastasia tour so it came to a head where um anastasia's manager rang me and and just he had to make a call on it because it was getting closer and closer to the time when um she was going to be starting rehearsals probably in about a month after when he made the call right he said i'm really sorry mate but we're gonna have to you know we're gonna have to make a call on this and i said to him don't even say the words like i didn't even want him to say it i said i'm really sorry mate but we're gonna have to you know we're gonna have to say you know i'm afraid you can't do the tour i just i didn't even want him to say it mate you know yeah so and i think you and your listeners will be understanding when i say this i kind of felt almost because i've been lucky enough to go back out and let's face it i was trying to make up like all of us for the last two years of yeah no money you know i mean with with touring work and to have another tour i was very fortunate to have that set to happen you know so it was a sort of psychological hardship to lose that anastasia tour and financial you know i mean um it was it was a loss you know i mean like financially and just um you know even even now i mean like that tour is still ongoing now and listen we all know the expression the show must go on and i i have no i've complete understanding and i've nothing but um um sort of good vibes like with anastasia and and i definitely wish you well it wasn't her fault it was yeah they they run a business and they couldn't take a chance on having someone on the bus that if we would have got pulled over on a border and and i'm and i'm on kind of day whatever 110 that they i would have been you know well at worst you would have been given a fine or i've heard of potential kind of bands a band from the schengen area and a black stamp in your passport and i wasn't willing to take that chance no more than they were no more than they were so you i came home from losing that tour and um you know our mutual friend perry kind of phoned me because he saw me kind of post about it well i think he saw me post something which he thought hang on something's not right here and he kind of encouraged me to write about it and i was right i'll be honest with you mate i was in two minds because quite often in life we don't want to put our heads above the parapet you know and and talk about these things you know but when when perry sort of said you can't suffer in silence man let's kind of you know this is massive what's happened to you and and and i i initially wasn't sure but after a couple of weeks of being at home i really started to think about what perry had said and he he was right and yeah put pen to paper right well it's
Speaker 1a brilliant letter and yeah it really has done the rounds and it's been so important as well in advancing the conversation on this issue so for those people listening who who haven't heard the previous episodes where we've talked exclusively about this for the entire hour um what steve is talking about right now is that crew members musicians lighting tech sound tech everybody in the in the uk cannot work in the eu area in the schengen area for more than 90 days at a time so once you've expired your 90 days nobody can hire you or employ you in the in the schengen area for another 90 days it's 90 days off isn't it collectively yeah
Speaker 2i mean it rolls forward every day going forward um i mean there's kind of the schengen now that you can get on your phones to help you work out how many days you've got for example now now i've been at home um for for a period of time i mean i was fortunate enough to go after losing anastasia so um i was fortunate enough to be able to go back out with john and anini at the end of last year just for a couple of weeks which still was within my lot of time because i've gained days from being back home it's crazy when you kind of kind of back and forth it's like an egg timer situation you know it's right and and thank you for thank you for kind of sort of speaking out about it but i really while the letter is about me and my scenario ultimately the reason i wrote it is because i wanted to speak on behalf of us all because yes and i encourage every single person affected by this to do the same thing we can't just have you know i'm not saying i'm the only letter out there but i'm certainly not aware of many letters of musicians that have written about this like i've tried to do and i'm not saying that in any type of way i'm not saying that i'm not saying that i'm not saying that i'm the number one poster boy for you know i am i'm not celebrating this at all trust me i would rather be on the anastasia tour entertaining people and of course the show's the show goes on and that's gone you know but i really do encourage other people to to speak about this because it's vitally important like right now even though i've written that letter and i didn't think from one letter change was going to come about you know we're still in the same position nothing's changed even though last september when you were in the house of lords and you heard my letter we're still in the same position right now i mean so there does need to be a conversation you know with listen i don't know i mean like the government whichever government is going to be the uk government is going to have to go back to the eu with a tail between their legs because we know that the eu already offered um an ability for for um touring people to come but um to go back to the eu and to go back to the eu and to go back to the come to the eu but we know that had to be reciprocated over here which i believe that the government wasn't willing to do which is indirectly we shot ourselves in the foot you know by doing this um so i mean i guess you know the only way i can see forward for it working without literally stopping people from doing what they've always done you know right now i'm still concerned about how i'm going to move forward with this i mean right sure i've been home and i'm gaining days you know i can go back out and obviously you can work closer to home there's nothing to say i can't work here you know where i live in this country and i love touring here i've toured there many times you know but just having that kind of inability that freedom to tour is i don't know it's brutal you know it's brutal well it's important
Speaker 1to point out as well that although all of the glamorous and amazing stories you've been sharing with us over the past hour you know this is your job you're not doing this for the crack of it you know that you're a professional who gets paid to do this stuff and it's and as i just mentioned it's not just the musicians who get to have fun on stage you know it is the all of the crew the drivers you know the uh the light in texas sound texas this is entire industries have been terminally affected by this this is whole livelihoods of people who now can't do the job that they've spent their entire life doing and we got some of the best crews in the world in this country and we can't export that now not everybody can be constantly on tour in this little island you know what i mean that's just not the way it works
Speaker 2and the way it works out with the government sort of sort of saying it would have to be reciprocated so the fact that you know for the sheer size of the eu and the amount of countries in the eu you know the fact that an eu band can come here and follow the same kind of guidelines you can get around by doing let's face it the average band that would come here would do they're likely play london manchester glasgow birmingham maybe a couple of places and they can go whereas for us to do a european eu tour it's going to take a lot more days because you've got traveling in between those countries yeah i mean the emu is doing what it can you know naomi pole has been i think he's really strong and speaking out about it and they kindly got behind i don't know if you knew but they kindly shared my open letter in their last magazine and the emu magazine which was good of them they wanted to share someone's scenario you know so again i'm not trying to be a poster boy i wasn't looking for sympathy right i just felt it was the right thing to say and um as i say i kind of really encourage people to to follow suit you know um but it's not just i mean obviously we're speaking because we're in the music industry and that's our that's our kind of domain but maybe you know the scenarios of people as ski instructors in the eu there's people that are say travel bloggers that that travel around doing travel blog you know people i don't even know if the people know this but it's not just when you're working it's actually just literally stepping foot yep so yep holidays foot in an eu country your schengen days start immediately even you know so again i'm sure my my good friend milton mcdonald won't mind me sharing with you that that he went on holiday um last year i guess he wasn't thinking it was connected and but even being on holiday you know in the eu cuts and evens your schengen allowance so i know it sounds crazy but i can't even think about going on holiday to any of the eu places the places i love for example italy i would love to go with my family there i don't know i know i can't help but think that some people you know might be listening to this thinking well you know what a sob story you know lucky you go somewhere else but i can't believe we've done this to ourselves but it's done we you know brexit is done you know not on my vote but it's been done and ultimately we just have to find the government has to find a way out of trying to encourage you know a way of getting some type of visa waiver to encourage more days you
Speaker 1know yeah 100 and well said man do you feel that a visa waiver would be the answer
Speaker 2to this i do think that's the answer yeah i mean i don't know i mean of course rejoining the eu would be the answer yeah and even with the most positivity in the world even if we had a referendum tomorrow which we're not and even if we did and this entire country voted to get um you know back back in the eu we've got 27 countries to let us back in yet it's like gonna take gonna take years man yeah you know it might take you know it might it might not it might not happen it's likely to not happen in my lifetime and i just listen the early part of this conversation was all the golden nuggets and parts of my career and i'm i'm so fortunate to be able to talk about that and well i don't think that's over and done and dusted they were the kind of they were the good times of my career and as you asked i've shared them with you yeah but this is the reality right now of kind of you know god forbid this was the end for me of my doing something i've loved all my life i'll be heartbroken mate and i don't know where i would kind of fit in to society after being a drummer for so many years but i'm more concerned you know but i would think what i'm trying to say is that if it was the end is like you know i've got so many things which i've done and i've been very very lucky you know and but i'm more concerned for the upcoming musicians yeah and artists that haven't even got their foot on the ladder yet they may not have that opportunity to get even get out of the european tour and
Speaker 1yeah 100 it's a concern
Speaker 2i think but we know our mutual friends the carry on touring campaign they know an awful lot about this and they're all forever daily updating people with information so i'm sure you'll agree that the on touring campaign yes tim brennan and ian smith was definitely a campaign that people should follow you know because they're 100 on top of the the daily things moving forward with that
Speaker 1oh 100 yeah big shout out to tim and ian again for the carry on touring campaign for getting it up and running off the ground and for everything that they've done i mean they've made massive gains on this conversation uh through their tireless effort on this you know those guys are just around the clock on it we all of us owe a lot to those guys i mean you know getting getting this issue heard in the house of lords building a huge body of ambassadors both in the industry and in and the creative sectors as well behind this educating people the brilliant website full of resources they've done so much we all owe them a lot but as you say it's frustrating because you know we're still legally no further down the line i mean we are we've made massive gains in awareness and education on this issue but in terms of the legality and you know the guys in the houses of whatsoever and it's so frustrating and as you say you know any meaningful change on this it's likely to take years in bureaucratic minutiae and that's just not going to help but i honestly don't see and i echo what you said i honestly don't see why a schengen-wide visa waiver can't be granted to people who are working in those territories that feels to me like something that could be could be pulled together quite quickly you know
Speaker 2well it's a it's a win for the british people that want to go out there and entertain the people that live in the eu yeah it's a win for the british people that want to go out there and entertain the people that live in the eu yeah but surely it's also a win for the for the eu to be entertained by people i mean this let's make it clear the people that live in the eu didn't vote for this we did 100 i mean so i think some people can get it twisted especially some people that have misunderstood my letter not many people but some people have thought well hang on it's like you did this to yourselves i know i know we did i mean i certainly didn't but i know as a country we did but it's trying to find a way out yeah we're no further i mean like as far as you know any kind of extension on days in the eu we are no further down the line but we are further down the line in the case that people seem to be talking about it a lot more yeah but i don't know how much more we you know well we just keep talking about it until something happens but i just um yeah it's um it's very frustrating me i mean and going back to the early part of the conversation of being a freelance person and feeling like one tour leads to the next i mean for a lot of crew people it quite often does and did you know because they quite seamlessly go from one tour to another but i think i know of a um a great guy who runs a tour bus company that he can only be in the eu now for six months every year it's going to kill his business you know it's like we used to be back and forth in the eu all year round so there's so many scenarios and of course i'm here talking to you but you know it'd be great for more people to speak up about their experiences and not suffer in silence about it no i totally
Speaker 1agree man and you've made a lot of great points there which i know i can't see anybody would find any any anything in there to disagree with but what is your situation now i mean are you able to to still keep yourself afloat somehow
Speaker 2financially you mean
Speaker 1yeah i mean are you able with what's available in the uk and within the sticking within your 90 day movement within the eu are you able to do that yeah i mean i mean i mean i mean i mean i mean i mean i'm to be able to to continue to survive as a musician
Speaker 2so and so because of the way it works that that it gradually refills i'm now on 76 days that i could work in the eu for right right from today um and i think it resets the 90 on the first of march right as i said there's there's shengen apps that kind of tell you that so i've got um i've had some inquiries about some festivals and some possible touring um later in the summer so i'm waiting to see about exactly what's going to come in right now i have nothing definitive but i can to be honest even without shengen and the situation we're in um that that periodically has happened in my career before you know where right as i say right now there is a tour that i should be on but it's quite hard to just land a tour overnight you know when you've lost something i mean there was another there was another tour that i did i mean i didn't even speak about this publicly but there was another tour that i was um could have done um because i've toured with this production called era which is a french um show and um i did that in winter of 2019 and they toured in in november december just gone of last year but because that clashed with my offer of anastasia i had to turn that down oh
Speaker 1no and then of course
Speaker 2the anastasia thing had gone i actually probably could have done it because i would have been home for so it's like fuck these type of knock-on effects uh they're really you know they're difficult mate so um but you know what i haven't you know i haven't we haven't given up hope you gotta just keep marching forward but i'm definitely part of the trying to encourage a way out of it for us all you know yeah
Speaker 1likewise man it's frustrating as it is and what's doubly frustrating as well is that you know it obviously it will eventually rectify itself however long that it's going to take but in the meantime there's got to be that generation of people who are going to be the first victim of this and in our case in our situation that's
Speaker 2us i think so yeah yeah yeah i do think that i wish i had a definitive answer but it seems hearing from the carry on torn campaign that the schengen wide visa is kind of the way to go but obviously we got to get the whole of the eu to kind of agree to that really you know and
Speaker 1what would you like people listening to this who may or may not be connected to this industry in any way at all what would you have you got anything you could say to them that they could do to help
Speaker 2i think i mean anyone that can write to their mp about their whether it's their experiences or even saying they've heard about friends or work colleagues or family that have been affected by the post-brexit scenario and and getting caught up in the travel and side of things i just think people should put pen to paper and speak out about it if you're a if you're a ski instructor if you're a travel blogger traveling around the eu and you've not been able to continue doing what you do or you work for a holiday tourist kind of company and you're you used to do six months you know in a block of weather in the eu you can't i think i just encourage people that are either caught up in it and have lost work because of it or people that care you know that other friends and family have lost work to to speak up and to write about it to their mps or you know to the government really i think that's all we can do you know i mean we can you know it's one thing to just sit in a corner and moan to each other about it but i think we have to be proactive and that's why i was even into um two minds as i said to you earlier until perry kind of lit a flame under my backside and says mate you can't feel quiet about this and that's why i wrote what i wrote you know but um here we are no i think you've made
Speaker 1the right move and i think you're totally right as well i think we we all need to be screaming about this i mean this the problem is there's so many issues especially right now and in in the sorry state that we find ourselves in and i think it's ourselves in in you know tory britain of 2023 there are lots of things to be pissed off about and a lot of distractions and people got a lot of worries so it is easy for issues to have their moment and then to die away again but i think and and i suppose for many people they might see this as not being a priority issue when you know most people can't afford to turn their fucking gas on um but and i totally understand that as i'm sure you do but it is important to keep the pressure on this issue because you know it it is um it is a light right now and i think it's important that you keep that going and i think outside of like you say pressuring your mp people can help by keeping the narrative alive as well keeping keeping it going telling people what is going on and like i say anyone that is affected by this tell your story put it on social media and let
Speaker 2it spread i agree i totally agree that's that's my main thing it's um it's a repeat you know it's not my open letter while it was about my scenario it's not about me it's sharing my scenario but actually trying to encourage others to do the same and speaking about this you know
Speaker 1100 and we have to maintain hope as well because without that we got nothing i mean you know we got a difficult struggle ahead of us i'm hopeful that you know we will get some kind of resolution on this issue but in the meantime you know we've got to keep we've got to keep the fire alive in our belly and we've got to stay hopeful you know
Speaker 2absolutely you have to be
Speaker 1and you said it right to start with the show
Speaker 2must go on always
Speaker 1well on that note steve thank you so much for doing this mate i really appreciate you coming on and giving us your time today it's been amazing to hear about your story and all of your amazing adventures with these iconic artists that you've worked with and thank you so much as well for being so open and honest putting yourself out there on the issue of brexit that we've just been talking about all of us really really appreciate you for doing that thank you hopefully it's not gonna be too much longer before you're back out there traveling far and wide doing what you were born to do bringing joy to people all over the world smashing the skins under those red hot lights and doing your thing
Speaker 2i can't wait mate thanks for giving me this opportunity to talk to you it's really nice to uh share share i mean a wide a widespread of uh of topics yeah
Speaker 1we got your whole but not not your whole life we got some of the some of the highlights some of the greatest hits in there so uh thanks for doing them and hopefully we'll see you again soon you're welcome man thank
Speaker 2you cheers steve thanks man bye bye steve
Speaker 1barney ladies and gentlemen what a dude you know what that lifestyle sounds pretty good to me as someone that spent all of my musical life basically like slumming it in the back of a transit van eating pot noodles and having to try and find all the oxygen amongst the drummer's farts the life of a session musician sounds pretty cool i gotta be honest i mean unfortunately i am nowhere near good enough as a musician to entertain the idea of ever being a session musician i can do one thing and i can do one thing only and that is you know the thing that i do but um i definitely think in terms of comfort level the session musician definitely sounds as if they've got a way cushier deal than the average punk rock band out there desperately trying to um make it to the next gig without breaking down or getting completely fucking screwed by their manager booking agent filling the blank but as steve said you know there are tons of great musicians out there not everybody catches a break you know so i'm not trying to make out that it's any easier on that side of the fence because uh i'm certain that it's not so yeah i love it when people are honest like that those are my favorite types of conversations you know when people kind of give you the you know the pros and the cons rather than just trying to like protect their ego or their pride but i said hey guys no it's all amazing and everything i've done has always been awesome i don't see anything that anyone can gain from that it's certainly not helpful for those coming up under us you know what i mean who are trying to learn from the people who've been over the trenches first you know so when someone like steve comes along and he's just completely open and honest he answered everything i asked him he gave us the good and the bad and some advice as well and yeah you know i really respect it when people do that i haven't forgotten that he's going to tell me who the asshole is in the industry that nobody likes to work for i haven't forgotten and no i won't be telling you but if you want to leave some guesses in the comments please do so i'd be interested to see what you think and another thing you could do if you want to get involved like steve said is get involved in the carry on touring campaign um some of you may already know about it already from listening to the podcast or elsewhere online those guys are doing amazing work but in an issue that affects not just the music industry but also the music industry and i think that's a really good thing to do and i think that's a really good thing to do because it's not just the music industry or the or any industry connected to it but every industry that has any interest outside of this country's borders then get get behind those guys because they really are doing tireless work and that's not their job you know tim and ian are both guys from the music industry you know or the the video industry you know they're this is not their area of expertise they're just working blood sweat and tears on this issue for all of our benefits so please go and give those guys some support if even if it's just amplifying their tweets and they're just amplifying their tweets and they're their posts or anything like that and outside of that as um steve said you know you can keep being a pain in the ass with your mp keep saying right what do you think about this issue what are you doing about it what are you going to vote on this issue and as well as that what you can do to help us i mean you like music right everybody likes music i'm sure you like music um what you can do to help is amplify the issue keep it alive talk to people tell people say guys you won't fucking believe what musicians are going through as a result of this stupid fucking brexit thing you're not going to believe this wait till you hear this and you can share tweets share posts like engage let us know that people are listening let us know that people are hearing this stuff as well you know that all helps like i said to keep that flame of hope alive so that we can keep the fight going you know it's it's hard enough in the creative industries as it is i mean i know it's hard enough for everybody right now you know like fucking over a decade of the tories absolutely rinsing this country from every fucking conceivable angle as i like this isn't it's never been worse in my life i've never known it to be worse on any front in my life so i know that it is tough for everybody right now and there are lots of things to be pissed off about but if you want to get behind this issue all of us in the music world and elsewhere would really appreciate the support so big shout out to mr steve barney you can follow steve at barney drums on twitter and if anyone's listening out there that needs a kick-ass drummer for a uh preferably uk-based tour look no further than the tub thumping ass kicking dude that is mr steve barney get in touch with him drop him a line and get him behind you thanks to you guys for listening as always if you haven't subscribed yet or clicked follow or like or give me a star rating or a review or anything at all then now is your chance to go clicking and i will see you next week for another awesome episode i got some cool guests coming up man jesus christ this diary is looking pretty fucking impressive right now let me tell you so uh have a good week take care of yourself look after each other and i'll see you next week love you
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