#420 - The Sunlight Theory That Changes Everything We Knew About Health | Dr. Alexis Cowan

late-night bites with friends already hard to beat that first too hot bite of fries you couldn't wait for followed by ice-cold Pepsi now that hits different suddenly the energy kicks back in the night goes longer and the laughs don't stop because Pepsi brings out more flavor more fun and more of the moment food deserves Pepsi grab a Pepsi zero sugar today endless summer escapes start here travel the worlds of Netflix IRL inspired by fan favorites like Stranger Things and squid game brave the upside down face off with the front man play leveled up arcade games shop exclusive merch and enjoy themed food and drinks beat the heat play eat and shop on repeat at Netflix house at Galleria Dallas bring your crew and save get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house thanks for having me I'm happy to be here you're sitting side saddle huh yeah I'm feeling like a bit of a leaner today we'll see I might change my mind what you've been up to what have I been up to so I'm teaching a course right now that's very fun because I'm essentially distilling an undergraduate degree program into like one online course so right now we're in biochem but we basically started with like intro bio chemistry organic chemistry now we're in biochem and we're basically working our way up to like a quantum and circadian biology like advanced lectures so it's been really great because I'm also getting to revisit a lot of this information I haven't seen since undergrad but with like new eyes since I kind of fell down Dr Cruz's rabbit hole and kind of revisited everything I thought was true now as I'm like studying these topics again and like preparing for class I'm realizing like how many more things are connected that I never even realized when I was first taking the courses because also in undergrad I feel like you're taking so many courses at once and you don't really necessarily see the why or like the interesting aspects of those topics but you're just like I need to get the grade right so you're focused on memorizing the stuff like putting the pieces together that you need in order to get a good grade but you're not necessarily like integrating it in a meaningful way and so I've found that very rewarding being able to go back through these topics and actually we watched a couple of Professor D videos in class because just like as an addition to help solidify certain concepts in chemistry in particular I think we were referencing some of Dave's stuff yeah so for people who last time you were here was like a year and a half ago roughly maybe maybe less than that maybe like a year ago yeah for people that are new and for all the people out there that worship credentialism why don't you give your your creds sure so so um I did my PhD at Princeton in the molecular biology department but my lab was actually in the chem department so my my advisor was essentially kind of like a split faculty across the genomics and chemistry departments so my lab the Rabinowitz lab studied metabolism and specifically I was looking at the metabolic effects of different dietary and kind of exercise inputs as well so we were doing like sedentary versus exercise as well as Keto versus high carb diets and we're essentially looking to see how tissue metabolism changed and how like metabolic control varies across these very disparate conditions so that's what I did my PhD and I also wrapped up with some studies on we were essentially doing pharmacokinetics of endogenous metabolites so most of the time when you're studying pharmacokinetics it's in the context of drug metabolism so at like Big Pharma essentially if you have a drug candidate you want to look how it's metabolized how it's cleared how long it's in the system where it's being metabolized things like that um but instead we were kind of looking at that lens and putting it over the metabolites that are naturally in the bloodstream like glucose fatty acids ketone bodies amino acids and trying to essentially model their behavior in like this complex system in an organism so that's where I left off then I took a gap year and I went back for my postdoc at UPenn in 2023 where for a year I worked on essentially building out a tech platform to help with multi-omic screening screening rather so when I say multiomics what I mean is essentially genomics metabolomics and proteomics all in one assay so that you can essentially for example look at patient tumors and you can look at one slice of tumor and assess all of these different levels like the protein content the genetic sequencing as well as the metabolite levels as well so then you could overlay all that data and then come to better conclusions about what treatments might be best for example however during that time I started that postdoc in January 23 and then in April is when I found Dr Cruz's work and like it flipped my world upside down so kind of the rest of that postdoc I was just like enamored with this other information that I was assimilating and researching and then it was kind of a natural progression of me leaving and just focusing full-time on these topics of quantum and circadian biology and mitochondrial medicine Etc yeah and for people that aren't aware of him his high level view on things is what yeah so he's kind of pioneering theoretical Quantum biology so kind of looking at like the fundamental aspects of biology as it relates to photons and electrons essentially yeah ultimately culminating in like actionable related to reconnecting with nature reconnecting with the sun grounding just living a life that is conducive and in alignment with nature versus kind of breaking all of nature's rules and living a more modern lifestyle which basically you can choose to do that but his point of view is like if you don't have informed consent around how harmful that is for you and like why you're getting all of these illnesses and like 20 year olds or even in children yeah that that understanding needs to kind of be shared and spread so that we can then make at least informed decisions you know if you want to get sick and make these kind of trade-offs you can do that yeah but it's not correct from a biology standpoint it's just so funny to me I've noticed it so much lately I'm you know over the last year over the last few years is that like everyone's trying to get back to nature right like we're simultaneously on this never-ending race to progress technologically but at the same time we're also trying to we know it's better to get back to nature but we're still on a trajectory so we're just selling more and more people are just selling more you know technical tools and gadgets and things like this and pills and drugs to help us get more you know back to nature but you know who knows if any of that really works one thing that you can notice though is that like one of the things that I always talk about it is like if you ever get out of out of the U.S or out of your city and you go to like some foreign third world country for a couple weeks yeah and you come back home it's like depressing you could feel the difference it's just it's depressing I agree and uh I think that's just you know one of the biggest red flags that were in a very shitty toxic environment and we're all like kind of desensitized from that reality as well uh I actually had the same exact experience when I visited Jack down in El Salvador and it was Thanksgiving of 24 and that was the first time I'd been out of the country I'd been to like Canada but I never really been out of the country and so I was kind of you know worried because I feel like in the past El Salvador kind of had a reputation obviously of being unsafe and kind of chaotic obviously Bukele has gone in and according to some as a dictator but I mean you got to do what you got to do I guess at some level to make Corrections and kind of restore balance in society so I went down there and just like had an incredible experience and when I came home I legit felt super depressed for like multiple days it was crazy it kind of felt like just like a dark cloud also because I went during basically the winter this beautiful like you know rural environment the beaches the black sand beaches the volcanoes just like the great company and just like the high energy and then going home to like kind of bleak like dead New Jersey in the winter it was just oh my God the contrast was too much yeah there is something there is something to be said about the the impact that it has on you when you go to places like that where it's just different yeah it makes you also realize that you're choosing to live how you're living right like you could make a different reality for yourself if you were so inclined but right obviously there's lots of amenities in the U.S that I think people enjoy but at some level you have to make a decision of what's most important the other really cool thing about my time in El Salvador that I noticed was because there's a lot of volcanic activity down there it's like the land of volcanoes which was one of the reasons why Jack picked it because basically you get a ton of magnetic flux from these volcanic rich areas that's like mana for the mitochondria that helps them work better um and we talked about yeah like kind of like the food of life oh yeah um and so when I went down there I'd had food poisoning a couple months before I left and I kind of my gut was just not really right since then literally less than two days being down there all of my gut symptoms went away and the other really cool thing that happened was I had lived in black mold during undergrad and I had like this mole on my hairline right here um that had developed and it was probably like a low-grade basal cell carcinoma I'm gonna guess um it was dark it was kind of scaly but it wasn't really doing anything and I'm like very against going to a doctor unless I'm dying basically so I'm like you know I'm just gonna let it be or whatever if it starts getting worse then I'll consider getting it checked out literally on my eighth day in El Salvador it shriveled up and fell off my head whoa I did nothing for it like I was literally just existing down there grounding we hiked some volcanoes we went to the volcanic beaches like we were in the water in the sun that's all I was doing and I just had these very dramatic and palpable effects on my health that like really sold me on wanting to ideally in the long-term set up shop down there at least part-time. Yeah, totally. You can eat garbage down there and you still feel great. Right. Unlike here. Well, that's the thing. That's why Jack always says like, it's not the food first as like the main thing, because if you correct the environment or you get in the correct environment, you can tolerate so much more. And that's literally by optimizing those mitochondrial engines. And also, of course, I'm sure there's some aspect of like, there's less chemicals on wheat products and just like on their crops in general in these parts of the world that aren't giving like these negative effects on the microbiome. And they don't, we looked this up actually a couple of podcasts ago, but we found out that they're one of the countries that does not put the fluoride in the water. That's interesting. So I don't know how much that has to do. Y'all don't have fluoride down here anymore too, right? I think we do. Really? I thought they were taking it out. Does fluoride still exist in Florida water, Steve? See if we can find out. Damn. Yeah, no, I don't think they got rid of it. And I don't know. That's like one of the things that if you talk about it, you people like look at you like you're a fool or whatever. They don't know. It's one of the big conspiracies, but. It's not even because if you go on PubMed, there's dozens of articles saying here are the trade-offs of the fluoride exposure, especially at like low levels all the time for like neurocognitive effects. Yeah, it is still in Florida. It exists, but it is no longer added. So it's going to slowly deplete over time. So we got natural fluoride? Is that what they're saying? I think it's probably still in it just from when it was being added previously. So effective July 1st last year, Florida enacted the law, Bill 700, that prohibits local governments and public water systems from adding fluoride to their water supplies. Bro, my friend, I have a friend who's a concrete company and they build the wastewater treatment centers. So like all the giant like concrete tanks that recycle all the shit water. And they literally dump giant vats of chemicals, all kinds of chemicals in those things to recycle that water. So, I mean, if you want to say fluoride's bad, I don't know what other kind of concoctions they're throwing in there, but it's a lot. Yeah, there's lots of like halogenated compounds that go in like chlorine based and maybe bromine based as well that are used to like sanitize the water. I mean, all of that shit's bad. Like we use a reverse osmosis at our house if we're going to use tap water for like cooking and like filter our shower heads and everything because yeah, none of that's good for the hair, for the skin, for you to breathe in. Obviously for showering, all that steam is like volatilizing those things. 00:15:10 SJ: Yeah. 00:15:11 LJ: And we use those chemicals too, especially like the chlorine and bromine ones. They're very volatile, so they just go into the gas phase pretty easily. So you're inhaling that and like absorbing it through your skin and it's all bad. 00:15:20 SJ: Yeah. 00:15:21 LJ: Yep. 00:15:22 SJ: No bueno. 00:15:23 LJ: No. And like other water supplies throughout the world, they don't do that same stuff at all. 00:15:27 SJ: No. And I'm sure it has to have some sort of impact. 00:15:29 LJ: Yeah. 00:15:31 SJ: So again, what were you saying that those PubMed things said about exposure to fluoride? 00:15:36 LJ: Yeah. So, I mean, first of all, from a data perspective with regards to fluoride and dental health, which is their rationale for using it, there is some data to suggest that topical fluoride in high concentrations on the teeth may help with mineralization, although it creates like a fake version of the mineral that the tooth naturally has, which is a hydroxyapatite. So it's like a fluoridated version of that that gets created, which you can make an argument maybe that's not natural or optimal even. But even if you are just looking at like cavity incidents, for example, you could say, "Okay, maybe topical fluoride can help to reduce cavities." There's no data at all that would suggest that ingesting low levels of fluoride all the time does anything for the teeth. 00:15:58 SJ: Right, ingesting it, yeah. 00:16:00 LJ: Yeah. And I think that data that was initially motivating the addition of fluoride to water was something like they surveyed municipalities and looked at natural fluoride levels in the water, and they showed that essentially that there may be some association with lower levels of. 00:16:10 SJ: Of dental issues in communities that had naturally higher fluoride levels. But as far as I know, that data was actually quite kind of spurious and not really clear, and there's lots of other things you can do for your teeth. And actually, this is related to Becker's work, which we may talk about a little bit later, with bone and ultimately with teeth as well, that like these are working at a biophysics level, and if the biophysics of your environment are incorrect, like for example, from non-ADVMFs or indoor living, like not being grounded, et cetera, et cetera, then that's going to compromise these kind of crystal structures in the body at the level of the bone and the teeth, for example, and make them higher porosity. But the story about cavities is like, there's so much that could be said with regards to impacts. Dry mouth, mouth breathing, oral microbiome, obviously food consumption, because depending on what's in your mouth and how long it's sitting in your mouth, those microbes can. For example, metabolize sugar and starch into acids like lactic acid, lactate, and other ones as well, and that basically makes the mouth more acidic, which naturally drives the teeth towards demineralization. Saliva is required to actually support remineralization. It creates a slightly alkaline pH to offset that. So, if you combine like mouth breathing with eating like a very high carbohydrate diet, you're kind of just asking for issues in that department. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's just so. There's so many things out there that everyone's worried about as far as like health wise and staying healthy and even people with kids. Most moms, there's like a whole group of moms on the internet that are always like trying to project how much more conscious they are of their kid's diet and their kid's health and all this stuff, making TikTok reels about, "Look what I pack my kid for lunch," and all this stuff. And it makes me feel guilty sometimes, when I see that, like, "Oh shit, I've made my kid a peanut butter and jelly today." And then I think about when I was a kid, I ate fucking Chef Boyardee every single day for at least 20 years of my life. Just utter trash I ate. Pop-Tarts and Chef Boyardee was probably a staple of my diet, and some Easy Mac here and there, and I'm fine now. So, I think human beings are a lot more adaptable than we think. Like we can. As long as we're not like riddled with co-morbidities and all kinds of other diseases, I think that we're able to reset ourselves pretty quickly. I switched from nicotine pouches to ultra pouches a while ago, and something amazing happened. I stopped feeling on edge, my heart rate wouldn't randomly spike anymore, and I started getting way better pumps in at the gym. That's because nicotine is vasoconstrictive, and I had to learn the hard way that nicotine is horrible for pre-workout. Ultra is a nicotine-free pouch with zero nicotine and zero caffeine. 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That's spelled T-A-K-E-U-L-T-R-A.com for 15% off with the code D-A-N-N-Y. After you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about them. Please help support our show and tell them we sent you. Yeah, I mean, I would say humans are extremely resilient. However, now, especially for kids today, it's like basically an all-out assault on their biology and everybody's biology. But especially, you know, if we're talking about kids, that's their formative years. They're still developing. They're still kind of setting the tone for their lifelong health. Yeah. Especially when we're talking about issues like the non-native EMFs, which are not really publicly discussed as like a major concern, which is concerning because this has been of concern for literally decades and there have been whistleblowers on this. It's just hard because you can't see it. There's so many other things we have to be worried about. Well, now we have to be worried about this invisible devil, this non-native EMF. Well, so here's the thing that like the way that I approach this is I don't really want to think about like the granular aspects of health. Obviously, I try to buy all of my meat and produce local whenever possible, just because I prefer it. I think it tastes better and I just like it. I'll spend extra money getting good quality food because it makes me feel good. Having said that, if you invest your money on creating an environment that's conducive to health, then you have so much more bandwidth with regards to what you can get away with without actually feeling symptomatic. I think that's the biggest problem today is that a lot of people don't actually feel good and they're not healthy. If you do feel good and you are healthy, then obviously maybe you were dealt a better hand of mitochondria at birth or maybe just, you know, whatever genetic aspects that perhaps gave you more resilience. But a lot of people don't actually have that bandwidth. They're already kind of at their, they've filled their stress bucket essentially. Because if we think about all of the stressors on our bodies between like social stress, psychological stress, like chemical stress, biophysical stress, like they're all additive. And if the bucket's being filled up in kind of every direction, you're just more likely to fill it up more quickly. And so, anything we can do to kind of especially mitigate exposures to things that we know are suboptimal or right harmful for our bodies. Like for example, with the non-native EMFs, it's really easy to turn off your wifi at night. Like you could literally put it on a timer, like plug it into the timer and it will just go off while you're sleeping. At least that's eight hours a day. My bed has wifi on it. Your bed has wifi on it. Yeah. It's one of those sleep number gimmicks where they like, you know, connects to your phone. Oh my God. Have you ever had like a building biologist come to your place? Yeah. I had Tristan from daylight come to my house. So did he check out that bed? Yeah. He said it's not too bad. He said it wasn't too high. The worst, the worst areas in my house where it was, where we have baby monitors. So we moved those to the opposite ends of the kids' rooms. Okay. Yeah. Those are not good. The thing with non-native EMFs that people need to understand too, is the inverse square law, which is a law in physics of electromagnetism basically says like the closer you are to a source, the higher the dose you're receiving. So I don't know if the bed is measuring low and you're like where you're on it, then maybe it's okay. I mean, we wouldn't do that just because it seems like something that's avoidable. I don't, unless you like absolutely love your bed and it's like dramatically improving your sleep relative to other beds. But anytime you can just create some space between yourself and whatever the source of that frequency is, you're going to benefit from that. And actually like sometimes it can be kind of a rub because for example, I have a client up in Jersey and I went to go measure EMFs at her house and we just like, you know, kind of set up some spaces for her to ground. And we actually ended up seeing that her kitchen floor, was able to be grounded upon because there was just tiles right on the sub flooring and turns out her dogs like literally always lay on that floor. It's kind of like they know or something, but anyway, she has a cell tower that's maybe a quarter to a third of a mile away from her house, but you can see it in the line of vision. And the entire front of her house facing that was just maxing out the meter. Yeah. Which is crazy, but the really cool thing and like a great testament to mitigation strategies is that when you went onto her kind of side patio that also is facing that, but there's a bunch of pine trees around it, literally no signal at all. So plants do an incredible job for blocking and reducing EMF burden because they essentially absorb all that frequency themselves. 05:29 CH: Yeah. What I thought about those big towers, those big cell towers, is that like as long as you're like in a close proximity, you're safe. But like 'cause once they, the way they shoot out the signal or whatever, or whatever the frequency is, it like spreads out the farther it gets. So it's like, if you're in like a mile perimeter of it, it's bad. But if you're like right under it, you might be safe. 06:02 DM: I don't think so. 06:04 CH: No. Okay. 06:04 DM: It's the opposite. 06:05 CH: It's the opposite. 06:05 DM: It's gonna be super high if you're right next to it. 06:07 CH: Oh, wow. 06:07 DM: The one, I guess, kind of exception could be if you're in an urban area, there's like a main tower and then there's repeater towers like every few blocks that boost the signal back up. So in that way, it could be high away from the tower if you're near a repeater tower, for example. 06:17 CH: They stick those things on the top of all the condos and the beach down here. 06:21 DM: I actually saw them on top of like a hotel or a condo building. I was like, I can't believe it. 06:23 CH: They make them look like trees. 06:24 DM: It's insane. And they try to paint them the same color as the building to like say, "Oh, maybe no one will notice it. Oh, I saw the trees too." 06:29 CH: You're crazy. 06:30 DM: That's insane. 06:31 CH: Yeah, it's crazy. 06:32 DM: They put them on palm trees and they put like palm fronds hanging off of them. 06:34 CH: We have like the evergreen looking ones up north. It's like very dystopian. 06:40 DM: Is Bobby Kennedy correct when he said that the 5G passes the blood-brain barrier? 06:52 DM: So what 5G does is it opens up the blood-brain barrier. 06:55 CH: He said it crosses the blood-brain barrier. 06:57 DM: I mean, it's not a physical thing, right? 06:59 CH: Okay. 06:59 DM: So it's an electromagnetic wave. 07:01 CH: Maybe he did say opens up. I don't remember. 07:03 DM: I think he did. I could be wrong, but like that research goes back decades to the work of Dr. Alan Fry. 07:10 DM: Pull this thing up a little closer. 07:12 CH: Yeah, sure. 07:13 DM: He did some seminal work in this area. And actually, he's still alive. He's in his 90s and he lives in Maryland. I would die to talk to him. But essentially, he did work on EMFs back in the day, also the same time that Becker was doing his work as well. And he showed that essentially, if you took his rats, essentially he was doing rat studies and exposed them to certain frequencies that are akin to Wi-Fi or 5G towers. And he basically showed that the frequencies opened up the blood-brain barrier. 07:49 DM: So Kennedy said, "Electromagnetic radiation from wireless technology causes the blood-brain barrier to become permeable, allowing toxins to enter the brain." 07:58 DM: That is actually true. 07:59 DM: That's true. 08:00 DM: Yeah. 08:01 DM: Wow. 08:02 DM: And yeah, Fry's research was literally, I wanna say, in the '60s when he did those studies. 08:06 DM: So the toxins, it opens it up so toxins can get into your brain. What toxins? 08:10 DM: So the blood-brain barrier is a highly specialized barrier that only lets very certain things, very specific things through. And so when you permeabilize it, you're just leaving it up to probability. Anything could come through, it doesn't mean it necessarily will. But in Fry's studies, for example, he was taking an injectable dye, and in the rats that weren't exposed to these frequencies, the dye entered the body, but then when he sacrificed them, that's what it's called in science, kinda creepy. He sacked the mice and took the brains, and the brains were not stained at all with the dye. And then the mice exposed or the rats exposed, the brains were stained blue, showing that the dye molecule, which is a big molecule, was able to penetrate through into the brain. 08:43 DM: Oh, that's wild. 08:44 DM: Yeah. And presumably, this would be relevant to all barrier tissues, not just the brain. So I would imagine the gut barrier is also affected, the skin barrier, the lungs as well. All of these barrier tissues are kind of co-coordinated and they're. 08:52 DM: They're protecting organs, is that the idea? 08:54 DM: They're managing what is allowed into the body, or into the brain in the case of the blood-brain barrier. So they're very, very specific to the body. There's highly specialized organs and tissues that are extremely important for making sure that we don't get issues like immune responses to foods, for example. We see a lot of food intolerances right now, and food allergies. A lot of those would be kind of non-existent if that gut barrier, for example, was nice and tight and high integrity. But the immune. A bunch of the immune cells in the body, like 80% of them are around the gut lining, just on the other side, gets opened up. Now the immune cells are actually able to potentially interface with more antigens from food that they would have never seen before. And now they're being sensitized to those foods, and then when you eat them again, you're having a response, for example. 08:59 DM: Oh, that's what's going on. 08:59 DM: Yeah. Also, all the histamine stuff that people are experiencing, it's hugely hot topic. Histamine is essentially the body's first line response to leaky boundaries, leaky barriers. It's trying to defend the inside world from the outside world. And so whenever we get these hyperpermeable barrier tissues, histamine is like the first line of defense to help reduce the amount of stuff coming into the body from the outside. 09:11 DM: Okay. 09:13 DM: Yeah. 09:14 DM: And why is it happening all of a sudden? You say it's becoming more and more talked about? 09:19 DM: It's super common. 09:20 DM: It's happening more with people now? 09:21 DM: Yeah. So you could say it's a combinatorial issue that really started upticking around COVID and when the jobs were rolled out. And of course, also the 5G rule, it happened at the exact same time. We already talked about how these frequencies can open up the barrier tissues. So that's one. And then we also know that spike protein can get in and inflame tissues as well. When you have an inflamed barrier, it also loosens it up. So it's like this negative synergy that's creating this feed forward mechanism that could make the issues even worse than they would be from either input individually. 09:45 DM: I remember we had a couple of people on that looked at the correlation, but. Is it true that there was like a spike in soft tissue cancers after the pandemic rolled out and all the jabs and everything? 09:59 DM: So I haven't looked at the data, so I can't say for sure if that's like true signal or not. Also, I feel like it's pretty complicated. I mean, it may have been Kevin McKernan. 10:04 DM: Yeah, that's probably who it was. 10:06 DM: 'Cause I was gonna bring up his work because he had. At the very least, they're doing research to show that they're finding the proteins from the jabs. 10:12 DM: The jabs in the tumors and like the SV40 promoters, enhancers, things like that. 10:18 DM: Right, right. 10:19 DM: So it's pretty. 10:20 DM: And right, he was saying that something about what it could do is possibly make cancer, something like cancer transmissible. 10:30 DM: I mean. 10:31 DM: To where you can catch it from somebody. That's what he was saying. 10:35 DM: So. 10:36 DM: And that sounds like something that would happen in a bio lab somewhere. 10:38 DM: I've owned this here Ridge wallet years before they ever decided to sponsor this podcast. 10:42 DM: I've been carrying this thing with me every day for at least five years, traveled with it, dropped it, I've beaten it up, and it still works and looks great, just like the same day I bought it. Ridge isn't some gimmicky wallet you have to replace six months later. It's genuinely good. 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No purchase necessary to enter. 10:59 DM: I'm taking the Lamborghini Huracan Cerato, a Hennessey Velociraptor, a Ford but every dollar you spend gets you more entries that's ridge.com and use the code d-a-n-n-y-j-o-n-e-s after you purchase please tell them that our show sent you we know that certain viruses can cause cancer for example so if it's kind of by a similar mechanism where it's like a certain if shedding is actually happening which i don't know if anybody's really looking into this deeply like in a systematized way within the centralized scientific paradigm like if the spike protein shedding from jabbed individuals is actually influencing people who didn't take it that would be a great question to ask i don't know that's what he was saying yeah that is what he was saying it seems which is so scary maybe plausible but like that is exactly what they are studying in bioweapon i just had anna jacobson on the podcast and she just wrote a book all about biological war okay and she was telling us about an experiment that was done uh with this woman who actually i think she might have gone to princeton she was like a very high level uh princeton graduate i might be wrong about this might not have been princeton might have been harvard okay um anyways she was somehow recruited or she got radicalized by one of the terrorist organizations over in afghanistan or somewhere over there in the middle east she was like a really smart biochemist and she was she figured out a way to successfully make rabies uh aerosolized because rabies from what i understand is like you have to like actually touch it and get it on your like inside your it has to get into your bloodstream like a bite from a bite yeah she was working on a way to make rabies aerosolized okay to where you could just you know take drones and spray it and people would all get rabies great sounds like a good time like that's what and and that's basically you know her conclusion was after all the scientists she they talked to like they were trying to figure out how to wait await find ways to make things like cancers rabies bubonic plague make it to where it's just spread through the air where there's no touch involved there you don't have to touch anything you don't have to get something in your cut or whatever inside your bloodstream so that's terrifying did they incentivize her to do this uh they just radical idea ideological so she wants to kill a bunch of people yeah she wanted to destroy the united states she wanted to do like a crazy terrorist attack on the united states i forget there was there was a specific uh there was one specific event that was like the tipping point for her where she likes she switched and she was caught she was caught by i believe like the cia or something in afghanistan at like near the embassy or maybe it was pakistan was it recent no uh founder you found me sadiki there she is okay now now after i just butchered the whole story we'll tell the true story she was a pakistani neuroscientist what school mit is that what it says okay there you go um born in pakistan um came here went to mit blah blah blah phd in neuroscience uh university in 2001 she began returning she returned to pakistan following the 9 11 attacks and again in 2003 during the war in afghanistan she returned to pakistan she returned to pakistan following the 9 11 attacks and again in 2003 during the war in afghanistan and again in 2003 during the war in afghanistan and again in 2003 during the war in afghanistan so it was the whole war in afghanistan that so it was the whole war in afghanistan that so it was the whole war in afghanistan that might have done this she might have had like might have done this she might have had like might have done this she might have had like family that was killed or something family that was killed or something family that was killed or something okay um and then she was added to the okay um and then she was added to the okay um and then she was added to the terrorism list terrorism list terrorism list and was the first woman to have been and was the first woman to have been and was the first woman to have been featured on that list featured on that list featured on that list so scroll down oh wait what does that so scroll down oh wait what does that so scroll down oh wait what does that say go up go up go go say go up go up go go say go up go up go go it says around the time she and her it says around the time she and her it says around the time she and her three children were allegedly kidnapped three children were allegedly kidnapped three children were allegedly kidnapped in pakistan five years later she in pakistan five years later she in pakistan five years later she reappeared in afghanistan reappeared in afghanistan reappeared in afghanistan and was arrested by afghan police and and was arrested by afghan police and and was arrested by afghan police and held to question by the fbi while in held to question by the fbi while in held to question by the fbi while in custody custody custody where does it say about what she created where does it say about what she created where does it say about what she created okay the virus that she was working on okay the virus that she was working on okay the virus that she was working on scroll down scroll down scroll down scroll down scroll down scroll down scroll down there we go okay there we go okay there we go okay she began collecting materials on she began collecting materials on she began collecting materials on viruses for biological warfare viruses for biological warfare viruses for biological warfare according to intelligence officials in according to intelligence officials in according to intelligence officials in afghan ministry of the interior her son afghan ministry of the interior her son afghan ministry of the interior her son ahmed who was with her when she was ahmed who was with her when she was ahmed who was with her when she was arrested arrested arrested blah blah blah blah blah blah next mention of virus she was collecting materials on she was collecting materials on she was collecting materials on biological warfare um oh god biological warfare um oh god biological warfare um oh god oh would allow oh would allow oh would allow that would allow chickens to pass that would allow chickens to pass that would allow chickens to pass salmonella to humans more easily so it salmonella to humans more easily so it salmonella to humans more easily so it wasn't even what i was that was not at wasn't even what i was that was not at wasn't even what i was that was not at all what i was saying all what i was saying all what i was saying but annie was talking about people that but annie was talking about people that but annie was talking about people that were actively trying to make rabies were actively trying to make rabies transmissible to the air but this is you know it's all similar it's all gain of function you know what she also said so biological warfare is illegal nuclear weapons are legal so long as you sign the treaties yeah certain countries are allowed to have nukes no country's allowed to have biological warfare programs like that's complete that's illegal globally so she said out of like all of the biological weapons facilities that are trying to work on these things these chimera viruses around the world 90 of them are disguised as vaccine labs that's interesting also in the patriot act after 9 11 there was some aspect of that that basically prohibited like uh i guess bioweapons research here at least i don't know about the global ban but from what i understand we ended up moving a lot of those labs to ukraine yeah that was during obama yeah that happened but there's still a a lot of biological uh research facilities here in the us they're described as uh they're usually not gain of function though almost ever right yeah i don't know yeah because i mean if you look at viruses naturally they either are extremely lethal and not transmissible or they're highly transmissible and very like minor basically right it's very rare that it's both yeah and so i think the gain of function is essentially tinkering to try to make it both but i would imagine even if that were successful i mean it could be wrong but my guess would be that it would mutate very rapidly to restore the natural order of things because as a virus replicates there's naturally going to be mutations that are occurring right so even if it's like super lethal and transmissible in the first person that could dramatically fall off to make it really absolutely because it's actually not advantageous for a virus because they want to either be not killing their host and spreading to new hosts very easily or if they kill their host they don't want to do that super often right because if they kill hosts and are also highly transmissible they're going to kill all their hosts then they can't keep reproducing right so in the natural order of things you need customers that balance happen yeah exactly yeah you want to kill your customers exactly so i'd i'd be willing to bet that it would mutate pretty quickly to kind of restore the natural order but i mean who knows yeah that's very interesting you know another thing she wrote about in that book was like so like they create these chimera viruses to where what they wanted like what they were doing with this bubonic plague they turned it into a pneumonic plague where it was like a pneumonia plague and i gave like so you got the symptoms of the bubonic plague but you got this all these other pneumonic symptoms so like if you're going to get it treated the your symptoms are so broad you they can't figure out what the problem is and uh yeah essentially like the the point of her book like she went through all like the war games that the united states has been through in case this does happen and basically it leads to it leads to like full-on people in the streets like everything being burned down the country is gone within 72 hours it's just complete anarchy and i think that's that's i mean that's the fact that you know people are working on this stuff and labs all across the world is frightening and the cartels have them and i mean the fact that nothing is really happening much on that front is also a sign that it's either very challenging they're not you know mobilizing it for a variety of reasons there's you know different ways you could think about it but something interesting about viruses too um outside of the fact that some people don't think they exist um which i won't get into that's funny sam tripoli doesn't believe he thinks viruses are fake he also thinks nukes are fake yeah i think that's kind of i i truly believe that we are we have a vast misunderstanding of what viruses are i kind of personally see them as nature's way to bite back against us breaking nature's laws for example any sort of virulence is really an urban problem so essentially when you pack too many people like the plague for example when you pack too many people into close quarters and somebody gets infected like and then they're infecting other people actual titers like the amount of virus total is super high so the concentration is really high which is increasing the likelihood of infection and potentially the severity of infection as well versus if we look at more rural cultures they're not really impacted very much by these issues like for example when jack went down to the amazon he was in suriname and he was you know talking to some of the tribes people down there and they had some like kind of herbal remedies that they were using to help with certain infections but like none of them took the the jabs and like they were perfectly fine they weren't affected also because they're living in an environment that's conducive to health and immune health in particular but i think when we look at these urban environments that's when you know we have this conversation of like oh should our vaccines good or bad like what context is there any context or like nuance there if you want to live in an urban environment and live like a modern human lifestyle i would say you should probably just follow of the centralized model because you're going to break all the rules you kind of have to take these things in order to offset your risk of living in this way that is not natural it's not right normal right um there's a lot of you know health risks that come with living in urban environments regards to air pollution and infectious disease and obviously you know lack of grounding high emf you know usually poor sun exposure more indoor lifestyles um the constant like noise and like the um kind of audio stress that comes with that like i that's something that some people love that some people love the sound of traffic and car horns like dysregulated people they like constantly want stimulus like add people yeah like people like gary vee he talks about that you know who he is he's like the entrepreneur guy yeah i don't know like i love it i mean hey sell sell sell sell sell sell sell buy sell myself yeah i mean it kind of goes along with his brand too makes sense that he would like that but i think as human beings we're wired for certain inputs and it's easy if you're raised in a certain environment to like we were talking about in the beginning of this conversation to kind of become desensitized to a variety of inputs that would normally make anybody feel ill but just because you're in these environments it's literally breaking down like receptors for example that would cause you to have a negative response to something like for example um we have a light receptor called melanopsin that's looking for blue light on our skin on our eyes and our brains and our cardiovascular systems and our fat tissue etc but when you're exposed to a lot of artificial blue light and non-native emf these receptors actually begin to break down so you become less sensitive to the blue light because you're kind of being blasted with it all the time so if you constantly live in that environment you're not going to necessarily feel the effects of those frequencies on your body versus somebody who let's say works on a farm or something or like spends a lot of their time outside and then they go into an environment that's super enriched in artificial light they are going to feel probably pretty bad and the really cool thing that i noticed about um kind of adopting a more nature-oriented lifestyle back in 2023 it literally took a few days for me to feel this difference is when i started blocking blue at night and getting sun during the day and spending my time outside you know working on my laptop outside just being out there more when i would try to sit down in front of a tv for example i would be like blinded by it i'm like i need to turn the brightness all the way down or like put on blue blockers or something because i actually built back that sensitivity to the light frequencies and i think that's just one example but there's lots of different ways that our bodies are taking stock of the environment and if we're constantly blasting those receptors of various sorts with that signal it begins to break down and you kind of become numb to it and you can't really see the impact of those inputs unless you reset your your biology by kind of returning to the original state of your body and turning to natural inputs and then going back and you'll be like then you'll realize you'll realize yeah yeah exactly yeah you got to step out of it for a little bit to figure that out that happens to me any new thing i ever tried like any new workout any new diet you name it any supplement like you start taking it for a while and you forget like i don't remember why i started taking that exactly you know like this like this kratom stuff like i loved it when i started drinking it i drank it for years every single and then eventually it was like every day i needed one yeah i'm like this is amazing and on days like today i'm like this is amazing and i'm like this is amazing and on days i don't drink it i'm like i could really use one that's when you start to realize like okay you gotta take a break stop drinking it for a month yes then maybe try another one see how you feel whatever like for some people especially if you're i mean we could talk about a variety of different reasons that some people are more prone to like creating a habit around anything but some people definitely have that like stickiness where it's like that's the thing that gives me the dopamine that i'm looking for and then you just keep going back to it because it's reliable in that way and it's it can or they replace it sure you should place it with something else absolutely absolutely it doesn't have to be any better or worse but it always gets replaced one way or another well that's what i think is like one of the hallmarks of modern humans is like at least one vice but it's typically like three to five vices i would say and it's literally because this is also alan fry's work he showed that non-native emfs degrade the dopaminergic system so you're constantly looking for the hit of dopamine that you otherwise would have gotten from nature like we talked about i think in our last podcast when you're outside in uv light it makes endorphins in your brain which are opioids that stimulate the same receptors that kratom does and all the other opioid drugs really like absolutely beta endorphin is one of the cleavage products of palm c pro opium melanocortin which is produced in the brain and in the skin via uvb light exposure so then it's going into the bloodstream it can be cleaved into a bunch of things one is beta endorphin which is an endogenous opioid molecule that stimulates dopamine production and release in the brain that makes you feel really good and also improves critical thinking modulates immune function positively has lots of other functions as well that are super interesting but we're really meant to be receiving that all day long if we were spending time outside but nobody is and everybody's completely deficient in uv and near infrared light as well just because of window glass and the modern led lighting and fluorescent light so all day outside you have to be out there all day i mean at least take light breaks right i personally like to spend all my days outside when i can at least weather permitting yeah yeah yeah i mean even small breaks will make a huge difference i wonder if we stopped spending so much time outside spending more time inside if the body if the body would evolve to uh adapt to that you know i mean autism because i mean go back in history like were people in the middle ages i mean maybe yeah they were probably outside more because they worked outside more yeah but like it probably wasn't a huge difference people probably were still inside a shitload but they were probably outside more because they worked outside more yeah but like it probably wasn't a huge difference people probably were still inside a shitload you know yeah they were they still were also kings and queens sat in the castle all day long well i was going to say like one of the great kind of examples of this is looking at um egyptian royalty versus like the common man who would be working in the fields and outdoors and if you look at like the skeletal remains of like mummies of royalty versus the common people yeah the commoners had like these beautiful defined jaws like wide palette like they died of kind of maybe blunt traumas or maybe infections things like that but famine perhaps yeah but the people indoors the the royalty they had these narrow palettes like they had crowding in their teeth they had issues like cardiovascular disease these are hallmarks of living an indoor lifestyle they were also more inbred that's true too what was the guy remember who was showing us that uh deformity of the it wasn't even a deformity he was showing us the the um the royalty oh that was gary wayne was showing us that uh the those royal folks how their skeletons their facial structure was crazy was that in northern europe i don't remember because i know there's a lot of inbreeding in northern europe oh yeah this was specifically like a i think it was the paris maybe one of the louis oh yes yes yes yes it was french royalty sounds and there was a specific medical term for this for this whatever you call it like for when this happened to people there was a deformity deformity yeah um and they were saying that uh for some reason it like shortened their lifespan and it made them look weird but we were looking at it they look like they have this job yes there it is yes they just got big ass jaws like a chad jaw yeah right they're like looks maxing look at that nose though yeah the nose is wild wow didn't they have skeletons uh like skeletal remains of this oh i see the draw the jaw is also like retrograde it's like pushed in it looks like an overbite yeah look at that look at a big pointy jaw i like i always do the far left with that with that golden wig i always thought this was like bad painting well you know what's crazy like you would think they would make them look attractive in the painting right and like lie but they didn't i guess could you imagine seeing a person that actually looked like that in real life maybe they wear it like a badge of honor like oh it must be good looking if it's royalty gaslighting everybody in the country the more deformed you are the more wealthy you are that's the ultimate gaslight i mean it kind of translates to today a little bit yeah i would say so uh that's crazy yeah a lot of times those like outward deformities are just signs of for example like connective tissue disorders so it does affect like a lot of the deep organ systems as well um it's like you know reflected at the high level but it's also at the micro level there's a lot of issues mm-hmm yeah what was this oh on angin um of daylight was telling me he thinks that we're all gonna look like little gray aliens one day with the big eyes and the skinny bodies and white skin because of technology and the development way technology is going and so here's the problem fertility is like going to zero essentially yeah you can't have evolution and like an adaptive evolution without reproduction so i just don't know if it's possible unless we literally figured out like the in vitro yeah we will of course we will maybe we won't need sexual organs anymore maybe or society might be destroyed before we're already printing babies we're already doing crisper right i don't think it's allowed in humans but apparently they tried in china it's not allowed but i'm sure they're still doing i mean epstein was doing it yeah he was definitely talking about it yeah i don't know what all got done but it's interesting i just think um i don't underestimate nature's ability to restore equilibrium let's just say that yeah it could take us out anytime really yeah i don't know if it's i don't know if it's holy yeah that's crazy that's fertility rates over how long 1800s until 2020. what is that big spike 1960 is that the summer of love yeah i was gonna say like post-war wow it went all the way up to 3.5 in 1960. that's crazy that is bonkers yeah that was like the the psychedelic age that's when everyone was you know anti-war lsd all that stuff it's true the counterculture and now that's great now psychedelics are like getting bought up by the pharmaceutical companies and like this turned into this billion dollar industry well they want to like change the molecular structure slightly so that you don't experience the psychedelic effects but you get the other benefits like neurogenesis and like cognitive benefits well not only that i mean darpa's doing that with um with the university of north carolina chapel hill they're trying to figure out how to do that for soldiers so they can get them off the battlefield get them right back on the battlefield of course you know like get rid of their trauma get back out there but um they're also doing this stuff with um uh i guess trump fast-tracked the approval for like ibogaine for treatment and all that and there was like all these companies that were already positioned like ready to make the financial moves before that was fast-tracked to like set their patents and like make so much money and like buy these companies there was i i don't understand the financial world but basically there was you know everything was already in place before he like made that public announcement so uh like eli lilly i think was the one that purchased a company and uh i sent you a link to this steve and there was like i think it was in the trillions of dollars that is going to be made off this they're just going to turn this into this crazy crazy crazy product so it's like a synthetic or like slightly modified version of the actives in ibogaine yeah they want to push ibogaine through and these companies are basically trying to lock down the patents for it if i understand correctly uh president trump recently praised eli lilly at the public event and called it a great company and highlighted its planned 3.5 billion dollar investment for manufacturing plant in pennsylvania oh great uh right but yeah no it's crazy how pharmaceutical companies are you know just positioned to make a killing oh yeah off of psychedelics well i wonder there could be a bit of backlash i guess if the molecules still maintain some of their psychedelic properties i feel like actually chanel my friend and i were just having this conversation about how when you take a psychedelic it really opens up your mind to like what's possible and how little we understand and i feel like that's kind of the humbling experience that a lot of modern humans need to kind of just just restore some baseline humility and like how little we actually understand how little we actually control that would actually be a good thing so if i think psychedelics for some people for that yeah obviously in some people you would get psychosis and yeah other issues but for the vast majority i think it would just be like very eye-opening yeah we should give that to world leaders they don't make stupid decisions i don't think so i don't think it would make them all the psychedelic people experts that i've talked to they say psychedelics make you more of what you already are they they they bring out sort of the inner psyche even more like your deepest beliefs like the deepest parts of you okay there was this crazy study that was done um at johns hopkins the study on psychedelic leaders where they gave them all psilocybin leaders of different religions um and they documented their experience to see if they i remember this the hypothesis was to see if there was like a common core to all religions and so they gave uh all these different second these all these different religious leaders psilocybin and they documented what happened and they all had amplified experience based on their religious beliefs no connection between any of them so um yeah there's a lot of people that believe it's just like a placebo that amplifies what's already there well so i could make the argument that in all power hungry world leaders let's say the underlying current is like fear because anybody who wants to control something or control people it's like ultimately a fear thing like they're afraid of losing control they're afraid of death or something like this so they could have actually a very negative powerful like bad trip perhaps if they took like a high dose psilocybin or lsd or something yeah which could scare them straight honestly i don't know you could go either way you're right about the fear of death thing there's there's a guy who actually wrote a book about this called the worm at the core sheldon solomon i believe his name is yep yeah yeah and they did a study on people to figure out what motivates humans the most and this fear of death yep i was just talking about this um with my partner which is that if we look at like the whole transhumanist movement that's it's literally just a it's all fear-based right the richest people i mean except for you know warren buffett maybe are just terrified of death totally and if you read those epstein files and like peter teal's emails when he was sending the list to the assistant of like what he needed for uh lunch that day or whatever the list is insane of like what he will and will not eat yeah i mean it makes sense because they can't take any of their worldly treasures with them when they die right so they just want to stick along around as long as possible right right yeah such a christian thing kind of to not want to die oh i guess so yeah i didn't think about it that way live forever by the way we're opening up a church and we're going to teach you all about the antichrist we're in the church yes we are well we're in the synagogue of satan yeah i think um i mean all religions offer some sort of perspective on what happens to you when you die it's kind of like a hallmark of a religion in general um and they all have the common thread of like you don't just poof disappear there's some aspect of you that lives on yeah so i think humans need that actually and when they don't have that they cling to things that don't deserve to be worshipped in that way like politics totally anything like like that you see dog man yeah it's like misplaced it's like misplacing those neural circuits onto something that i don't think we need it i think we find it like i think it's just a natural thing that the human mind uh is drawn to for sure it's like it helps us it definitely relieves stress you know because it's like obviously like thinking worrying about what's going to happen after you die is like super stressful and like you know worrying about like has everything happened for a reason is there free will am i really creating my own destiny or is guys this all god's plan right there's a huge element to that and it's like you know i think that they like it's the human mind is designed to like embrace religion or god or something like that but like the psychedelic thing the that's my problem with the whole psychedelic thing is people start to make that a religion right they start to make it this is the answer to everything right this is going to fix the church yeah there's people that want to do that there's people that want to introduce psychedelics into the into the catholic church to revive christianity and they think that that's going to be the answer that's going to bring back the ancient mysteries right so you're going to give so the my problem with that is you're giving this one guy who is the direct line to god who is control of his congregation of people that attend his church you're going to allow him to dope up all his people with psychedelics who've never done psychedelics before and now he's suddenly like that's that's the recipe for disaster it could be a cult real quick oh yeah yeah for sure you got heaven's gate yeah yeah it could go bad for sure also with like the power dynamics in general like set and setting is the most important things when it comes to psychedelics right and then you also have these people who get this like messiah complex this messianic complex where they talk to you like you're their child yeah and look i have all the answers i know i hate that you haven't done 5meo 100 000 times like me alexis i've seen it i know it you have to do it this way yeah there was actually this character online i actually i don't remember his name leo something and i remember he did this thing where he basically took 5meo every day for like 30 days and when he came back afterwards he was like wearing white and like acting like he was gone and i'm like oh no this is so cringe it's crazy people are wacky there's people that just weren't meant to do that stuff totally and i mean we're here we're meant to be having an embodied experience it can be cool to have these really like heady type of you know experiences in life as well but i think it can be very destabilizing and ungrounding and if you're doing it in the wrong context and like without the right environment to cultivate health for example a lot of times these things will like point out what's wrong in your life or in your body yeah for you to focus on which could be a positive motivator but it could also you know lead to a spiral or whatever else depending on how motivated somebody is to actually change right right as long as you're motivated to change right as long as you have some sort of like you know plan for it and you're not just haphazardly doing it to kill time or just to because you're bored or it should be like a ritual like something that's sacred it should be treated like that totally yeah and i just worry about like what's going to happen when it becomes like super commercialized by pharmaceutical companies and they start prescribing it to people and you know i don't know how it's going to work with insurance companies but i'm sure it's not going to be cheap they're probably going to charge thousands of dollars for this ibogaine treatment and why ibogaine too because ibogaine is one of the like one of the psychedelics that actually people die from from cardiac like they have heart problems when they take ibogaine no one's ever died from dmt to my knowledge uh well i think the remission rates for addiction in particular in ptsd are like exceptional with ibogaine and apparently it's because it's such a negative it basically makes you confront everything that like you're avoiding in your life and all of the kind of dark corners of your mind and you're confronted with that and it's like oh shit i gotta you know shape up or i'm gonna die basically or this is gonna happen i'm gonna live with regret or whatever else burn in hell or whatever it is and that was like a very strong motivating force to change afterwards your annual checkup usually means weeks and weeks of waiting for just 10 rushed minutes with a doctor followed by somebody telling you everything looks normal and here's a statin but normal doesn't answer questions about your sleep your energy your hormones your recovery or what sort of problems could rear their ugly head years down the road and that's why superpower makes sense to me one simple set of lab tests measures more than 100 biomarkers across areas like your heart thyroid hormone metabolism vitamins gut microbiome and environmental toxins your results are organized inside the superpower app along with a personalized health plan and access to an on-demand health care team it's proactive health based on your actual data instead of just waiting every year and you can do that with your own health care team until something finally goes wrong go beyond your annual checkup and finally understand what's really happening inside your body for a limited time our listeners get 20 off to unlock their health membership head to superpower.com and use the code danny for 20 off your 199 superpower membership and after you sign up they'll ask how you heard about superpower let them know that danny jones podcast sent you so i've taken dmt i've never blasted off on it though i i would do it i'm actually i'm really curious about the research that's being done with like superpowers i'm really curious about the research that's being done with like superpowers so i've taken dmt i've never blasted off on it though i i would do it i'm actually i'm really curious about the research that's being done with like the laser have you heard about it i've done it did you did you see the code many times you saw the code uh what did you see daddy tell me the last time i did it uh completely blasted off shine the laser and um the first time i looked at it i saw like it took me a while but i could see like sanskrit type text that wasn't like the code that he explained okay it looked more like sanskrit like lord of the rings type stuff that's on the ring and then uh i came down from it uh did it again about 15 minutes later and i saw billions of dicks i'm i you not was it dmt billions and billions of dicks in red laser form like flying through that sounds like the jokers they were like playing with you that's what i thought too that's hilarious i actually had a really cool experience um with my partner where we were we took mdma and then we smoked cannabis and i don't know if you've ever combined them but it's very psychedelic when you combine them like it's the most euphoric combination in the world and we both had this same close-eyed visuals at the same time which looked like aramaic hebrew or something like just scrolling across our visual field yeah we were both having this experience at the same time and i was curious because it sounded just like the characters that uh is his name danny goler yeah he described with like the laser beam so i'm like oh did we see like the same code it's pretty cool a lot of people allegedly see that that code it's very very strange but um yeah i don't know what it is wait do you know i don't know if i believe it's the matrix can you look up from adam to cosmos i'm trying to remember the guy's name he was a researcher like a physicist he and his wife were researchers like a couple decades ago i want to say and he let's see if we could find it from adam to cosmos oh atom a-t-o-m sorry oh my bad a-t-o-m-o-m it's like bad that's it oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so he actually i've read his book basically described like the hebrew characters as being kind of like these kind of like archetypal shapes he was massaged yes shut up i swear to god yes he was massaged wow okay i mean maybe a bit biased maybe a touch that's hilarious but he was very smart but he got killed one of the suicide plane crash plane crash yeah and his wife ended up taking over very very smart guy his book's incredible i think he's definitely he was definitely on to something with his research i think so too but anyway it made me think of the same thing with the lasers and like what we saw because it kind of looked like hebrew it genuinely did so what specifically was he saying about the lasers oh well like danny was saying that the it was the same thing it was the same characters like it looks like hebrew slash aramaic yeah that's what he said can you find a clip is this on video or is this all is this written down in text no it was on his podcast with who was it um it was a recent on danny's podcast no danny was on a podcast and he was talking about it bent off he was just talking about the characters that people were seeing with the laser beam but i'm saying how did you make the connection to eat sock though oh with the characters it looks like hebrew like genuinely looks like hebrew so i thought maybe that he's on to something actually maybe he's not actually biased maybe it's legit right but it's not talked about this specifically in a book or something he he talks about it in that video in that video yeah from adam to cosmos it's a great video by the way oh okay find the clip in that video yeah i would be curious to seeing that yeah if you can find it it's i think it's pretty long it's like an hour but if it's easy to find then yeah he's fascinating his whole thing is about um uh his books called stalking the wild pen yes very complicated book like i had to listen to it on most people listen to books on like 2x speed i listened to that on 0.5 speed yes i can relate but like yeah he talks about how everything's like a vibration like everything's on different vibrations and like everything's a pendulum and like when some when when the pendulum is swinging it's like in a in a state you can measure but when it's like when the pendulum goes up before it falls something it's like divide dividing by zero basically you can't do it when it's at the center and at each end i think it basically is like this undefined function right yeah right he talks a lot about light and stuff like that too it's very very complicated and interesting well it's pretty cool though like i don't know if you've been up on um dr cruz's work lately but i read one of his in preparing for this i did read one of his patreon uh posts but i haven't been seeing i haven't been listening to anything because in his conversations lately it's like everything is coming back to frequency vibration like resonance mm-hmm like at a physical level like an anatomical level even he's been talking about these vortices in the body that form in the brain and the heart um and that essentially this is a way for the body to separate deuterium from protium deuterium being like the heavy form of hydrogen that essentially gunks up the mitochondrial engines so it needs to be kept away from the cells and the mitochondria ideally in a healthy body and that these vor there's a vortex essentially at the heart the heart serves as like not simply just a pump and maybe not even a pump at all you make the argument that the blood vessels are like actually creating um their smooth muscle right so they could be pushing things along you could actually make the argument the heart's actually slowing blood down like it's collecting it and slowing it down the flow of blood interesting um there's also some electrostatic interactions so the surface charge of the blood cells the red blood cells is repelled from the glycocalyx which is like a um kind of like a mucous membrane slash a charged water that lines all the blood vessels so that that electrostatic charge keeps things moving and like repelling but the vortex within the heart essentially the blood gets spinned um and in the brain as well he talks about essentially like very fine structures within the within the um skeletal structure of the skull um meckel's cave being one for example that essentially helps to create this vortex that then can separate the heavy deuterium from the protium and that's actually how if you look at like nuclear um nuclear programs they need heavy water they need d20 deuterium oxide in order to run their nuclear reactions and so how do they do that they use giant centrifuges spin the water and you can actually separate those of deuterium water yeah you can take regular water and use a centrifuge to basically partition out the heavy water from the light water right so essentially jack's argument hopefully i'm not misrepresenting it he might kill me if i'm if i am but i'm pretty sure i got this is that the vortex essentially can help to do a very similar thing so that's why it's called the protium to reach into the cells where the pro the protium containing water i should say to get into the cells and actually support mitochondrial function because they need the light hydrogen in order to have um the mitochondria run the electron transport chain versus the deuterium if it gets in there it doesn't allow that process to happen so it essentially slows and gunks up the engines so i don't remember why i started talking about that but it's very interesting oh the vibration and like the resonance so basically jack is saying that you're standing on a vibration plate or you're moving or walking or like chanting or singing or stimulating your vagus nerve like with the little um there's like a little electrodes you can put in your ears or on your neck that stimulate the vagus nerve gargling as well like initiating the gag reflex all of these things helped yeah anyway take that up with jack he said also the pool jets so like you can stand by the pool jets and like make it hit your back so like all these different things okay i don't want to know what jack's doing down there in el salvador i could gag reflex in the pool jets got something to tell us buddy yeah but basically these are all ways to vibrate your system and get that vortex going and helping this process along um and the things that naturally people would do anyway if they're like moving their bodies um if they're in nature obviously like sunlight helps to generate that charge separated water that helps with flow and flux and uva light stimulates nitric oxide production which helps with flow and that's why it's so important for us to be able to do all of these things so that we're able to do all of these things so that we're able to do all of these things so that we're able to do all of these things so that we're able to do all of these things so that we're able to do all of these things flow and flux as well so it's kind of like the synergistic effect that you would naturally get if you were living a more um a lifestyle more conducive to health but if you're an indoor person sitting inside all day under artificial light not really moving eating garbage food that's laden with deuterium and seed oils that are also high in deuterium Then it's creating this perfect storm essentially to break that system. We're talking about bent off. Yeah. And like vibration resonance and stuff like that. What he specifically talks about, like, have you seen his bell curve thing that he did? He talks about this like bell curve of human intellect, I think it was, or human consciousness maybe. And he says that like at the front of the bell curve on the bottom before it starts going up, it's like you have people with lower vibration, like lower consciousness. And then like the bell starts to go up to like a peak. And then you have like the majority of society that's like in this like mid range of vibration, frequency, consciousness or whatever. And when you get to like the far bell curve, he's like you have. People with like very, very extremely high consciousness, high vibration, lots of energy. And he asked the interviewer, he's like, so the people on this very far into the bell curve, where do you think they are like in society? He goes, oh, they must be in the universities. They must be, you know, in the in the scientific labs and all this stuff. And he goes, no, he goes, they're in the mental hospitals. Yes. I remember actually hearing him talk about like schizophrenics, for example. Yes. Like they're actually operating at this higher level, but it's just not conducive to society. Exactly. Where they're just connecting so many dots all the time and they're hyper rational, always processing things on like a rapid pace and people just think they're crazy. And I always found that very interesting with him. That is very interesting. You know, that guy was just really onto something. And, you know, he was also one of the people that was like pioneering this whole idea that. There's more to physics than like hard dead matter than electrons, neutrons and protons. He's like, there's more to it than like reduction, reduction, reductionist science. There's something else out there that we don't really understand. That's not like something about there's something about like the human experience and human consciousness that's not weighable. It's not measurable. You can't you can't break it down into into atoms. Yeah. So I mean, when you think about all of the tools that we use. In science, they're all just extensions of our five senses. So that means you're only detecting things and, you know, perceiving things that would be perceivable by the five senses if they had that extension of ability. But if it's outside of that, then we're still not detecting it. So it's it's really like kind of the unknown unknowns quadrant of, you know, that classic thing that we don't even know how to develop technology that could help us answer that question because it's outside the scope of our even. And experience of reality. Mm hmm. So I think we talked about like humility earlier and like the role of psychedelics and maybe making you realize how little you understand. And actually, if we think about frequency as it relates to how our minds function and our brains function and let's say that we consider the brain is like an antenna. And if you take a certain psychedelic that maybe widens the window of perception, like, for example, in the same way you tune a radio station to a certain station, you could tune it to a different one and get a different signal. I think it's kind of a similar thing with psychedelics or any substances. Really, that are like changing the way that you're perceiving reality is that you're like basically changing the window of perception, either like either shifting it or widening it. And it's allowing you to perceive things that are actually real, but they're just not in the slice of reality that you're typically accustomed to. Yeah, I think it's I think you're right about that. Yeah. And, you know, at the very least, it can just get you off the like normal everyday vibration that you're on, like the typical way you look at life, you know, through a certain lens. It just puts everything. Everything in a different perspective, a different lens makes you sometimes, depending on who you are, it can make you realize what's more important or what's a waste of time. That's a tool. It's a tool at some level and, you know, extreme levels. It can be like a complete, you know, reality shift for some people. Yeah. I mean, I genuinely think that we don't necessarily need psychedelics, but my experience going to El Salvador, for example, like the entire time I was there, I kind of felt like I was on Molly or something like I literally just felt amazing. And I'm like, oh, crap, like I'm literally supposed to feel like this all the time. And then I don't feel like reaching for something. Substance A, B or C, because I'm already feeling amazing. That's just because you were out of New Jersey. Well, I mean, yeah, there's something specific about El Salvador. There's also something specific about being out of the States and like somewhere more equatorial, for example, more supportive to, you know, health. Yeah. That just makes you realize that humans were kind of meant to feel good. One of the craziest things you told me that never left me last time was how people that live in the equatorial latitudes have dark eyes and dark skin because they get so much sun. They need to. They don't need to have white pasty skin to absorb all that light. And the people at the northern latitudes, they have lighter colored eyes. They have whiter skin because they need to absorb more sunlight to be healthy. That just blew my mind and makes so much sense. Yeah. Well, there's even like another level to that story, which is that a lot of people in the mainstream, they consider melanin to be something that is protecting from UV light. I would totally flip the script on that. And I would say melanin is not protecting against UV light. It's harnessing. And if we look at the work of Dr. Arturo Solis Herrera, for example, he's showing that essentially when melanin absorbs high energy photons, i.e. UV light from the sun, that it actually can stimulate some form of a human photosynthetic process. Like similar to when plants in the chloroplast absorb sunlight, the chlorophyll can basically facilitate water splitting and ultimately make free electrons to power energy production and starch production in plants. But that in humans, not, you know, you can't necessarily supply. All of your energy from the sun, but for people who are very deeply melanated, super dark skin, and they're in the correct environment, like near the equator, and also maybe at high altitude as well. If we look at the parts of the world where we see that, it's like in Kenya, it's both high altitude and equatorial latitude. So it's UV is like off the charts that that melanin is actually soaking in those UV photons and using it productively to help power their bodies. It's not just protection. I feel like the whole protection perspective. Is more of like, uh, Northern European propaganda type of situation because melanin in general is just demonized and it always has been. And even in Latin culture today, like you'll see, I literally have a friend whose grandma was like, oh, stop tanning. Like you're going to look poor because they associate darker skin with lower class. And it's like all of this colonialist programming that came with them being stop breeding outside the gene pool. You're going to look poor basically because they're used to these basically Northern Europeans coming down, you know, with the imperialist pursuits and then kind of imposing their culture upon them and that stuck and that programming kind of runs really deep. But melanin is very, very powerful and it's doing things we can barely grasp. How the hell did like mainstream medicine fuck it up so bad? Like, how is it? How is it possible that it's backwards when you go to your doctor, they tell you the opposite. Mm hmm. I would say that it was it's not even fucked up. It's intentional. Like, it's intentionally misleading. Yeah. And I mean, Jack talks about this all the time with the Flexner report back in the day with like the the Flexner report. Flexner. Yeah. F-L-E-X-N-E-R. So Abraham Flexner wrote the report. He was funded by Andrew Carnegie, if I remember correctly, and essentially he was tasked with helping to centralize the medical education system. So essentially before that, there wasn't really standardization across medical education for doctors. It was. It was kind of, you know, different depending on what school you went to. And there was also a lot of folk remedies, holistic medicine, like more traditional therapies that were used for basically all of human history. And so he went in and essentially said, like, none of this is evidence based. We need to kind of reconfigure medical education. Of course, at the same time, we were in the process of creating the modern pharmaceutical model as essentially a way to sell the byproducts of oil. And so we were able to do that. a big german chemical company and uh so essentially between that german knowledge of chemistry and taking these oil byproducts they were able to synthesize all these really i guess interesting molecules that could be repurposed in the context of human health so it was like kind of a win-win for them so they're figuring out a way to monetize shit and they're saying like we're already making money here uh we can scale our operation make more money if we also monetize this byproduct of what we're already creating exactly now how does that work its way into medical school yes so let me circle back to that so this was part of flexner's report of standardizing medical education one of the main things that he did in his report was suggest that all folk remedies holistic remedies nature-based things were removed from medical education and that the doctors were primarily being taught this new kind of pharmaceutical lens of like using these synthetic drugs to treat people and prior to this period of time you often saw sunning decks on the roofs of hospitals and you can find old pictures of that as well where patients would get wheeled up to like bask in the sun to help facilitate their healing process really absolutely it was like commonplace wow what what time period so it would be like pre-1920 you would see these um after the flexion report all of that was completely eliminated you know within a year and a half the number of people who were in the hospitals and the primary route of um treatment became these like synthetic pharmaceutical drugs and of course from a capitalist perspective it is a it's a great incentive to continue with that model right and so i think we kind of saw we're seeing right now exactly essentially the end point of how that plays out like people sicker than ever you know on paying more money for drugs every month than they do for food and other you know life-sustaining things and like you know just worst health in the history of our species and that's kind of the end game of this model how much of like for people that go all the way in like their phd and postdocs and science and stuff like this and chemistry or whatever it might be how much of the money that is like granted to like the labs and the studies and that comes from pharmaceutical companies do you know i couldn't tell you the percent but i can say in my lab we had multiple collaborations with pfizer and other pharmaceutical companies that were funding specific projects within the lab that are kind of like uh there's an incentive for both parties to do this research whether it's like maybe characterizing a new drug molecule and looking at its in vivo effects in animals for example um there's a lot of cancer research that's being funded by pharmaceutical companies in particular with like small molecule drugs and um antibodies and like immunotherapies things like that yeah most of the funding in like your standard phd and like research and biology environment is going to be coming from the government and this actually ties in the entire story about like robert maxwell and the journal industrial complex so maybe i'll i would like to circle back to that first and build up to that like with pergamon press and all that yeah exactly okay explain that okay so essentially robert maxwell bought um a publishing company something something springer i don't remember the name um and re-branded it as pergamon press in 1951 so pergamon which is interesting it's like throne of satan yeah throne of satan which odd choice for the journal company's name whatever a little sus um so essentially if you think about the context of this we're like post world war ii post manhattan project like there is a lot of interest in science as an industry because we saw essentially the potential like catastrophic but also success that could come from a siloed pursuit towards some sort of centralized research project for example in the manhattan project in particular we had hundreds of scientists working on a common goal but none of them were actually fully clued in on the the actual overall project the big picture exactly so basically what you can see from that and learn from that is that you can set you know a bunch of minds on kind of niche projects and then you can take that information right and use it to make something catastrophic but you can't do that you can't do that you can't do that you can't do that like where none of them are really complicit in that they're all just kind of doing their own little thing keep them all in their little mazes and their 2d boxes and then you have a high level view of everything which happens today and everything yes and it's kind of hijacking um certain individuals natural like scientific inclination because you know scientists were just really interested in like problem solving and like getting to the bottom of things and so you can kind of hijack that and and generate data that can be used for very negative you know applications let's say and that's exactly if we see that followed out we can see today like science is super siloed there are some interdisciplinary studies but mostly like you know you're kind of just working on your little chunk of reality and trying to understand it and nobody's putting the pieces back together to paint a holistic full picture of like at a high level what's going on here and if we were to do that we would probably see like oh like we don't need all this fancy stuff we can literally just reconnect with what the earth naturally gives us and we're going to be well also this ties in with the whole pharmaceutical thing because most of science today is translational in that it's feeding into a human health application in some way because that's where all the money is because everybody's sicker than ever right so it's like we need all this research to understand why people are sick and it's like so blatantly obvious but again nobody's looking at the big picture they're all just focused on like the cancer the diabetes the neurodegeneration they're like hyper focused and like zoomed in and they need to zoom out so you can see how everything works together and then it becomes obvious but circling back to the journal model essentially what Maxwell did was he realized that at this time period after science has kind of become more siloed and like grant funding became more relevant from the government to fund all these different kinds of science projects at different universities that he could essentially create this specialized journal model where it's like oh if you're doing work in I don't know if you're doing science or you're doing work in immunology that you can publish in this little niche journal you can publish your results this is also around the time where like the systematized peer review process became a thing so prior to this basically editors would be looking at the submissions and just kind of deciding themselves whether or not something deserved to be published the systematized peer review process that kind of came as a result of this specialized journal model that Maxwell created is a whole can of worms that's an issue in science because essentially the peer reviewers their motivations aren't purely just is this good science at all it like creates a lot of issues because sometimes your peer reviewer let's say maybe working on in a lab that's working on competing projects and like I've literally heard of examples where a peer reviewer sits on a paper so they can publish theirs first so they get the clout from that and this is exactly what Maxwell created was this publisher perish paradigm where it's like labs and and researchers are incentivized to publish as much as possible to get their name out there and to like build some you know basically clout chasing virtually so that they can get more money they can get more grants and it creates this like capitalist cycle within science which was never meant to be touched by capitalism really like science and its ultimate form is simply just to kind of curiously pursue the nature of reality it shouldn't be for financial gain because that actually tarnishes the process because if you create that kind of perverse incentive it's going to incentivize you to get certain types of results as well and of course if you're going in with a bias you can kind of see whatever you think you're going to see and scientists are only human right so they're going to carry that bias with them into experiments and into you know the analysis of their data and etc so it creates this very vicious feed forward cycle that's essentially broken science you know now we're at the point where I don't remember the name of the researcher but I believe he's at the University of Washington he essentially published a paper saying something like 80 percent of papers published in the biological sciences are not reproducible in other labs so essentially other labs have trouble getting the same results and that could be because of technical reasons it could be because you know technical issues in the initial experiments it's kind of fraught with a whole bunch of different issues but it just goes to show you that peer review is not really solving that problem of like oh are the results true because we have a rigorous peer review system now and we see these issues present as much as ever if not more versus peer review is also very much slowing down the process of scientific publishing which means that if somebody has really breaking research it's really hard to get it to reach the public in a timely manner right that's why people like Kevin McKernan they're publishing the results on substack just open source on open source immediately so people can reference it right away and then can do their own experiments to like you know confirm deny or build upon that research like that's how science is meant to be pursued we're supposed to be talking to each other we're supposed to be sharing results yeah and it shouldn't be this like very rigid and kind of cutthroat environment I have personal experience with that whole peer review process uh there was a gentleman who I had my podcast who was a classical a classicist and he studied ancient Greek all he did was read agent translate ancient Greek yes I love him so he did a uh a dissertation on this guy Galen who was the Surgeon General of the Roman Empire and he was Marcus aurelius's personal physician this guy was not just a physician but he was also like a philosopher like he was you know he was a jack of all all traits. He was a genius in every aspect. But so he studied all the different testing and medications and concoctions that Galen was making and giving to Marcus Aurelius, including like opium. Like there was this one drink that he created called the Theriac, which was like, I forget how many different ingredients were in it, but it essentially included opium and like seven different viper venoms, like North African viper venoms. And the reason that he and Marcus Aurelius were both taking it was because I guess the common way that royalty or like emperors would get killed was being poisoned, like assassinated with poisons. So he wanted to drink these viper venoms as like a performance enhancing drug to like boost his immunity to venom. The perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub followed by ice cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends. And now that's next level. Suddenly the laughs get louder. 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And the book was called The Chemical Muse. And then, you know, whatever your opinion is on Amon Hillman, that's neither here nor there. The point is the book went out and it was peer reviewed in the Bryn Mawr Classical Review by a guy who was a forensic pathologist. I read the peer review and I thought it was pretty disingenuous. I thought he was, you know, strawmanning everything he possibly could about the book. It didn't make sense. So I invited the guy on the podcast because this guy was also very interesting. He did like autopsies on the remains of Picasso. He studied Hitler's remains, his alleged remains that were in Moscow. He studied the remains of Napoleon, all kinds of like huge figures of history. And he reviewed his book about drugs being used in the Roman Empire. Shit on it in the peer review. Like this is a high level. This is like the most prestigious classical review there is. And I brought him in and I was asking him questions about his review on it. And he was sort of like, like, listen, like this isn't my expertise. Then why is he reviewing it? That was the whole thing. Like that blew my mind. Oh no. So the fact that people can do a peer review who are high level academics in one lane, but not necessarily the exact lane that the person is who created that piece of work or that study or whatever it is, that just blew my mind how that's allowed. So I don't know about in classicism, but what I will say for like biology and chemistry, typically when you're submitting a paper, you have to submit a list of a few names of people you would want to review your paper. It doesn't mean they'll necessarily be selected, but they usually are. And this wasn't like a paper. This was a book that he published. So I don't know what the difference is. But it was peer review. I mean, the Bryn Mawr is like a huge peer review. Okay. Yeah. There's probably some variability across the fields. So I can't really speak to that specific field. But I mean, at least in the sciences, you are able to give names of people that you would want to look at your science who you think would actually be good fits. But even still, like, obviously there's going to be bias in that context as well. There could be some level of competition. If you're reviewing somebody's paper that's in your exact field and your space, maybe working on a similar project that you are, as I mentioned before. But mostly the issue is that it's not going to be a good fit. It's going to be a good fit. It's going to be a literally just slows everything down so much. And it's slowing down our basically our ability to respond in a timely manner to new cutting edge science that could be life changing or world changing. And we saw that during COVID very strongly. Actually, Chanel, my friend that I brought, she did some work on like screening different small molecules that could be helpful in COVID. And obviously ivermectin popped up and like ivermectin like molecules. And like we had data to suggest there could be antiviral effects of that. And like, it was just, completely ignored, like not wanting to be brought to the, you know, attention, public attention for whatever reasons. So what was the deal with ivermectin? So I don't know if you saw the debate professor Dave did with the guy Pierre Corey and somebody else. You know who Pierre Corey is? Yeah, I kind of vaguely know who he is. Yeah. So he did a debate with Pierre Corey and this other guy all about ivermectin. And the case that he was making, I don't remember all of it. That's too, it was too high level for me to really. Yeah. digest and retain. But the argument that he was making was that like, there are no studies that prove ivermectin did anything for COVID. And number two, I guess the problem was, which was like, you know, this happens in every level of every industry, but they were taking the ivermectin and they were turning it into this crazy like subscription model and making millions and like, you know, somehow raising the price to way more than it was if you could get it through a doctor. But I guess the problem was you couldn't get through doctors. The fact that you couldn't get it through a traditional doctor led to them finding, carving out this niche to where they could, since they were doctors, they could create a company where they create the subscription model, where they market to the people who, you know, that was like, that was probably the most polarizing period in my lifetime of American history was the COVID thing. So they, they had a huge base of people, a huge customer base. And the fact that you couldn't get it from a doctor was like, you know, all the stars were aligned for them to make tons of fucking money. So that's, that was Dave's, you know, one of his biggest arguments to those guys combined with the fact that there was no actual scientific reviews or like proof that that thing, that stuff did anything. So it's a very safe, um, off patent drug. So it should be very cheap if you can get it, but obviously doctors were like, just scared to prescribe it, I guess, for their licenses or whatever, which is ridiculous, like literally a Nobel prize winning drug. And the safety profile is crazy. Like the, the wide range of doses that you could receive, like up to, I think, two milligrams per kilogram and even higher than that. And still have very minimal side effects. Like, first of all, it seems like, um, it seems like something that should be tried, at least tried out, especially because in all of, um, a lot of the in vitro assays that were done to see what could potentially stop spike protein from entering cells. Like it did pop out multiple times across multiple labs as an option. So it seems like something that would have at least been attempted. And then if you look at the studies that did try to study ivermectin, the timing and the dosing was like so erratic that it was hard to actually draw a conclusion. But I will say from my personal experience, um, I'm somebody who literally will get sick if sickness comes into the house for my stepson, for my partner. And they both had COVID when they it was either earlier this year, end of last year. Oh, wow. I was taking ivermectin because I had like some, again, like some stomach bug or something that I was dealing with. I was like, I might as well try it because it is shown to actually increase bifidobacteria in, um, like the short term. So it can actually be helped to helpful to remodel the microbiome. And it seems to like target essentially pathogens and, um, parasites without harming, like the positive bugs that are in the gut. So I was taking it. I literally didn't get sick. They were both sick around me. I wasn't protecting myself in any other way and I did not get sick. So I really think if this study were to be done, I would bet there's a, um, kind of like a, in preventative measures, you could take ivermectin and you could probably take it prophylactically is what I meant to say to prevent the infection to begin with. Right. Though I know other people who, you know, had the infection started taking it and still like shortened, potentially shortened the window of infection, though it would be hard to say on an individual level, you'd need like a large scale data set. Right. I would be interested in trying it too. Cause it, in my household, it's my wife and kids get, there's something that goes through the house. They get it first. I always get it a week later for some weird reason. Yeah. So maybe if I had it, that would help me. I keep it on hand. I literally have it in my backpack with me. Let me get a handful. Yeah, you got it. I'm happy to, because I literally, whenever I'm going to fly, I take it just in case I don't want to pick up anything on the plane. Yeah. And I, it just works wonders for me. I like, obviously I don't have the other control that says if I didn't take it, I would have gotten sick. Sure. But just from my own experience, I know that I tend to get sick. If it's not going to harm you, it's not harmful. There's no downside. Then what's the, what's the hurt? That's what I feel too. And also Mary Tally Bowden was prescribing it to tons of her patients and she saw incredible results. Totally. And she had no incentive to do that. She didn't make any extra money from doing that. She got fricking outcast from her whole, she got kicked out of the hospital and she was an outcast. Yep. Yeah. She actually, I remember her talking about a specific case with somebody that was having very strong histamine responses after the jab. And she used ivermectin to help basically, I guess, clear up some of the spike protein that came from the jab in particular. And then that person responded really, really well. And, you know, it changed their life in a positive way. And like, you know that's kind of invaluable especially when you know like this drug is really not going to cause side effects and like 99 of people it's very well tolerated so it seems like kind of a no-brainer yeah yeah and it was very sus that they were trying to ban that and there was this like overwhelming pressure from from the power the power structures the biggest companies and the government saying no don't do this right like you know whenever that happens you should have your red flags going up and also the in florida at one point they tried really hard i don't know if they were successful but they banned they tried to ban monoclonal antibodies but because we had that here yeah i remember that and then they there was a huge push to get that ban i don't know if they were successful or not i never did any of that stuff that's crazy but i remember being in line to get that there was like in st pete like just 30 minutes from here there was like huge parking lots at the stadiums where people were waiting in line for half the day wow to get the monoclonal antibodies it's almost like they wanted people to die i would say if like you had a cynical view i mean it's possible it just seems like they were literally doing everything wrong from like slowing down the science of like potential alternative therapies to like pushing the propaganda of the safety studies on the jabs and like hiding information about the contents of them like it's just literally at every turn they were doing something wrong and i ultimately think i opened a lot of people's eyes which is good about like the shortcomings of our system but it's hard to not think that it's nefarious at some level i guess is what i would say it's hard to especially if you have a deep understanding of history you know exactly it's like naive what is this steve-o is this the hebrew characters i i believe so okay okay cool put your headphones on so we can hear it okay this is on the cosmos guy yeah this is so this is um this is the ad from adam to uh what is it isaac bentov is in the beginning but then it transitions to this lady who's his wife oh his wife okay so um here i'll go ahead and play it for eternity so we want to see what's next and so the moment you ask again the next picture is shown to you and explained and what you see are more such luminous toroidal shapes appearing in the void and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light and as you approach you see that they are arranged in a spot of light that and disseminated and everybody just happened to agree. People don't agree on anything. How do you get them to agree? Right, right. And then going back to Homer, like with the Odyssey and the Iliad and all that stuff. Did you see the movie yet? It was, I haven't seen it. My dad just called me this morning, said it was great. He said he saw it last night. I'm going on Saturday, I'm excited. Going back to, to like Homer and all that, no one could read. Right. Everyone would sing. They would sing it. Like that was all sung in like hymns and like musical tones and people would memorize all that shit because no one could read it. Right. Exactly. Which is crazy. And then also it's not paginated or it's not like, there's no spaces between words. There's no commas, apostrophes. There's, there's nothing like that. It's all just straight words stacked. And like, you can't go back and like memorize, okay, this was on page 345, paragraph two of this chapter of this book or whatever. No, it's just these giant scrolls of never ending texts. Holy shit. Which is like. That's mind boggling. That's. Yeah. It is mind boggling. It really is. And you know, the fact that it was musical too, it was very interesting. That's another thing. There's tons of music in ancient Greek, written in ancient Greek. You know, there was like all these musicians who are writing about all this stuff and. Yeah. I mean, it seems like a, like a musical tradition is something that's like been a thread throughout all of human history, essentially. Cause I think we use it as a way to remember things. Cause when you put it to a tune, you're just more likely to be able to remember in the future. Yeah. Versus if you just like took the text, it would be very hard to remember that word for word, but a song, you can remember the lyrics to a song. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's been, that's another thing, you know, like the, like the memory aspect to it too. Yes. Like people back then probably had way better memories because they didn't have to rely on storing all their memories on iPads and phones and their notepad and you know, whatever, like wasn't stored on videos on YouTube where you can just save that bookmark it and. Yup. Some things are use it or lose it for sure. And I think our brains, our definitely one of those things where it's like different aspects, the learning and both the, both the learning and the memory are like, you need to use it regularly. I had this lady on who's a, um, a psychologist from Harvard. I think she was from, she worked at, she was a psychologist, like very high level psychologist. And she was, she threw this theory at me where she thinks she thought that like when language was created, that was like a split in, in like the evolution of humans, where we went from, we went from like intuitive knowledge to trusting the written word, which is by its very nature, deceptive, like the easiest way to deceive is through the written word by being able to print lies or, or biases or whatever, and paint them as, as truth. So you can read, I can read books about, you know, biology and. You know, neuroscience all day long. I'm not really gonna know any of that. Right. I just, I just sort of like remember and understand the best I can. I can repeat it, but like, that's not intuitive knowledge. That's like almost the opposite of intuitive knowledge. And she was making them, she was making this case of like, you know, maybe that was the story of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge and the forbidden fruit was like that deviation in the intuition versus trusting the written word, which is inherently deceptive. And we've, we're so far down that path now. It's like, you know, the point of no return. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things I think about a lot. It's kind of like the split between let's you could say like the intuition and the intellect, for example, like the intellect it's, it wants to have a grasp on everything. Right. And wants to have certainty when in reality you can't be certain about anything. Like there's nothing that you could have 100% certainty on. Yeah. And obviously that's not something that ego enjoys because the ego wants to have like control and be able to have a grasp on things. Right. And it's the same thing, like just like being able to write stories down on animal skins. Like that's just a very primitive version of having the iPhone, you know, and that's going to dull certain senses. That's going to, I'm sure there was before we had the written word and we had to have like extraordinary memories and rely on our, whatever we call our gut instincts we have now. Like maybe that was something that was back then something on a whole nother level, like on steroids or something. The thing about language too is it's so limiting. I was having a conversation earlier actually about psychedelic experiences in particular and how like they're so ineffable. And when you go to try to describe it, it's just like such a sham of what the actual experience was and like the profundity of it. Yeah. Yeah. That actually makes me think that languages like Greek, for example, with such a diverse vocabulary would actually be a better approximation for reality compared to languages that only have a small number of words to encapsulate rally. Like you're inherently lying. When you put things into words because they're just, they're limiting. Yeah. But the more options you have, the closer it is to the truth. Yes. Yes. I don't, I don't know where that goes, but it's very interesting to see, you know, how this stuff evolves and you know, like what we were talking about earlier, talking to all these people who are dedicate their lives to studying these languages and stuff. Like none of them agree. It's very, very, very strange. High level of interpretation, especially because like for the most part, the languages are dead. So they have to like use correlations to try to triangulate the meaning of certain things. And it's like, there's a lot of room for variability there, it seems. And like, um, kind of a individual interpretation. Right. So yeah, it's very interesting to think about like how language shapes culture, I think in general. Um, and how maybe in particular English is positioning us to be more biased and more dogmatic. I think that's an interesting thesis to explore. Like maybe there's something specific about the English language that's problematic, or there, it might have some benefits too. I'm sure there's people studying these topics. That's, you know, maybe we need to become telepathic. We need brain chips. No, no, no wrong direction, but also we wouldn't be limited by language. I really don't see how it would work because just because you stimulate a neural circuit in my brain doesn't mean it's the exact same as yours. So like if you simulate one neuron, that means this emotion in my body, it's the exact same as yours. So like if you simulate one neuron that means this emotion in my body and you stimulate the same neuron, like if you map it into your brain, it could be completely different. Like if you trace it. So I really don't see how it would work telepathically, like to give you the same visceral experience that I'm having. Like I just don't see it as being possible. I don't know. Yeah. You're looking at it from a very reductionist point of view though, right? Like you're looking at it from like a mechanical point of view. So how would the brain chip work? How does it work then? I don't know. I mean, it's being made by the hyper reductionists, right? True, true. Theoretically, the way I've heard it described is like you'd be able to just project intention to people. You could probably already do that though without the technology. You think? Actually, that's a Rudolf Steiner quote. I'm not going to quote it directly, but it's something like human beings are going to continue to develop technologies that mimic things, technologies essentially they already have inside themselves. And they're going to develop technologies that mimic things, technologies essentially they already have inside themselves. And they're going to develop technologies that mimic things, technologies essentially they already have inside themselves until they realize that they have these technologies inside themselves, or they're going to destroy the world. And which one happens first is anyone's guess, essentially something like that. But like everything is a projection of something we already have, which kind of makes sense because like we talked about all technology is an extension of our senses, of our own sensory capabilities that we already have. So like, obviously that capacity is somewhere within us already. It's just a matter of being able to cultivate it and like use it in like a specific way, for example. Like obviously like, the remote viewing stuff, the telepathy stuff, I think it's not unprecedented and it seems like it's a possibility for humans. Maybe some are more, have a higher proclivity to those kind of things than others, but it seems like it's possible. Yeah. They probably get awakened when you get out of, you know, big cities and get into like the Amazon rainforest and you're surrounded by, you know, millions of heartbeats and insects and monkeys and Jaguars and all that crazy stuff. There's probably something that is unlocked. I mean, I think the medicine man in the Amazon, basically when asked how they knew how to create ayahuasca from these like very diverse plants in different parts of the forest, they were like, the plants told us how to make it. Right. So it's like, okay, that's cool. That sounds great. Like that's probably a skill that needs to be cultivated and maybe only certain, like the shamans and these types of cultures, like they seem to be tapped into something that's kind of otherworldly. Like maybe that information is coming through them. I don't know. They're also the ones that are using, you know, some of the things that they're using. They're also the ones that are using some of the things that they're using. I don't know. I don't know. They're also the ones that are using the plant medicines and like doing a lot of the deep inner work and the meditative stuff. And so like, it seems like they're, they're kind of skills that one could develop if they were to kind of exercise them. Yeah. Well, who was that? Who was that person that we had on recently who was explaining us? I think it was a lady who was explaining to us this uncontacted tribe who has this like very basic language. You remember this? Was this Melissa Elardo? No, this was recent. Basic language. This was very recently. This person, they were studying this tribe who had this like, it was like a very, very primitive language that was almost like so dumb they couldn't even believe it. Was it Heather Lynn? Yes, it was Heather Lynn. That's what it was. And yeah, she was making the case that they're like something about them and like the location they were in and how they were separated from the rest of the world. They, I don't know, they were like evolving on their own timeline or something like that. I mean, I wish you could find the name of that tribe. It's pretty crazy to think that they're are groups of people that are living and have been living the same way for millennia oh yeah and then there's us and we're existing in parallel crazy yeah yeah we're living here talking on a podcast on youtube why there's people running around naked you know on some island somewhere throwing spears totally which is better i mean i don't know i really don't know it depends on what you're optimizing for yeah i guess it's all about perspective yeah but if there was a uh if there was a nuclear war they would definitely be the ones that survived absolutely they're tapped into everything that they need to know to live on the land and like survive under very limited resources yeah we are totally divorced from that yeah we are another one of your quotes that i loved from our first podcast yeah i think you said that we're like equivalent to orcas at sea world did you say that i think you said that yeah yeah because like orcas when they get inside these uh these big tanks and they're not able to swim around they're not able to hunt they're not able to do anything like that they get like super depressed they end up going crazy they lose their minds and they kill people and totally it's insane yeah it's like we're living in captivity we literally are in captivity yes exactly i literally think the function of culture and society is to domesticate humans in particular domesticate men because non-domesticated men are the downfall to society basically because they will rise up and like overthrow whatever the power structure is so literally the the function of the culture is to basically just keep men in check mm-hmm and it's really quite interesting that you see the that kind of go in parallel with declining testosterone levels yeah and fertility in both men and women but like in particular in men it's very interesting was this it i found it this is the exact one she was talking about uh i'm pretty sure the pita hon david everett paraha's uh what was specific about what did she say okay here it is go go down the paraha are a unique group of people whose language culture and worldview are strictly built around the principle of immediacy of experience extreme vocabulary the language lacks words for abstract concepts numbers colors for example there are no words for one or two in terms only terms for a few and many they also have no word for thank you and do not tell others what to do so what is the implications of no abstract god they do not have a supreme god while they believe in spirits that inhabit the physical world like the jungle or the rivers they don't worship or pray to them he was a missionary and he lost his faith in his ability to convert them oh he was trying to convert them okay oh my goodness okay so when everett was trying to tell him about jesus the paraha asked him a simple logical question have you seen jesus when ever explained what he that he had never seen jesus nor his father or anyone he knew the paraha simply lost interest they only placed the value on the verifiable observable and personal experience that's fascinating to me because because of the way they live they're just more practical people they don't have the they don't have the privilege of you know jesus or religion or organized you know organized religion and all this stuff yeah that was fascinating to me it kind of seems like obviously if you look at how cultures develop they're developing in a way that is supporting the individuals that comprise the culture so religion must serve a function like organized religion is serving a function in most of the world for whatever reason and their version of spirituality or whatever you want to call it is serving them in their context but like it makes perfect sense that that wouldn't translate like why would they wouldn't gain anything from believing in what he was saying right because it just didn't make sense to them first of all but then second of all like what are they gaining from believing that they already have a spiritual belief system around what happens when they die or whatever else then yeah they don't need it right yeah yeah it's more of a something that's like adaptable for like the way we live now with cities filled with millions and millions of people yes who are like just connected to everyone all around the world at all times yeah and all simultaneously disconnected from everyone right but it's only a small group of people too and they're just trying to survive that's true very interesting yeah i mean the thing with people in urban environments too is i feel like you can become so like disenchanted with humanity in general because it's just like oh there's so many of us we're packed in this dense kind of space and i feel like it almost leads to the belief that like humans are expendable in a way and there's like a lack of um like sanctity around the individual in some ways um like diffusion of responsibility that too yeah for sure where people can there can be like a car accident with like a lady bleeding out on the side of the road and somebody could just you know be on a phone call trading stocks and walk right by it and not pay attention exactly yeah so it's like an interesting social experiment honestly and i don't know if urban living actually it probably doesn't work in the long term to be honest because every time something happens it's like oh i don't know what's going to happen but i'm going to be honest because every time something catastrophic happens you have to start over and you have to start from the more rural like agrarian or just like very pragmatic kind of context and environment it's just kind of the way the cycle goes i guess yeah um so going back to what we were talking about earlier with like the pergamon press stuff and the peer review and all of the gatekeeping that happens in science uh one of the things that was that was super interesting to me that is kind of in line with all of that that i found very interesting was when jack did that podcast with andrew huberman and um rick rubin and i think it was huberman or no jack might have said it and then huberman confirmed it that all of the medical textbooks in the neurology department at stanford like 90 of them were like proven wrong or out of date and huberman said that one of his colleagues like one of the top neurosurgeons in the world confirmed it saying yeah that's true they're all out of date and a lot of them are inaccurate but they just keep getting printed absolutely that's that's crazy yeah textbooks they're updated maybe every decade tops yeah tops so like that information yeah for sure they're they're learning things that's at least a decade if not more out of out of date and like behind the times which obviously is a big problem if you're going into medicine and you think you're you know at the state-of-the-art cutting edge and you're actually you know light years behind especially with the pace that technology and innovation has been happening like there's so much that you're not learning and obviously doctors like they're supposed to be doing continuing education and all these things but most for most of them they're in so much debt that they're just trying to um make enough money to survive when they get out of school and they kind of stay on that hamster wheel as well for the rest of their career because most of them are in like 200k in debt or more by the time they graduate medical school and so they're just trying to survive when they get out they don't have time to focus on learning and continuing their you know intellectual understanding of the cutting edge of science and medicine yeah they get stuck in the rat race totally so the whole system is just kind of set up to keep doctors um kind of just dialed into whatever they were taught and not like being curious and having also the whole kind of criteria that selects for doctors to go into medical school it's all about who gets into medical school it's all about who gets into medical school it's all it's all about who gets the good grades on the tests which means like who listens to authority who can memorize information that's what medical school is selecting for in their application process so like that kind of an individual is also going to behave in a certain type of way when they get into the real world which is also subverting or like submitting to authority following the status quo and that's not exactly what you want in somebody who's going to be taking care of your health you want somebody who would be thinking out of the box and kind of staying at the bleeding edge and honestly that's more of what like like a scientist would be inclined to do versus a physician by the current training at least yeah i agree it's just like sometimes it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff because you got people on instagram who are doing methylene blue eye drops sitting on the beach and uh i think this person is crazy they certainly look crazy you said it's legit i mean i don't know if it's legit i think methylene blue has a lot of trade-offs maybe in certain cases and like circumstances it could have some value i don't know if it's been studied intraocularly very well um but the product certainly exists and people do use it for better or worse yeah it's just like god damn sometimes i feel like people just go overboard with some they do you know there's a lot of grifting there's a lot of people so much grifting there's a lot of people who are just like desperate to feel better too and will try anything that's true that's like very sad as well because they tend to fall for the grift and like you know they could be out a lot of money and maybe even worse off than when they started so it's definitely like the wild west online for sure in the health space yeah do you still use the methylene blue stuff no i don't use it regularly i rarely use it maybe like on a flight i will use it but i haven't like so it has a similar effect to like ivermectin for like it combats like viruses and stuff so not for the viruses per se at least not to my knowledge but essentially methylene blue um can serve as an electron carrier when your mitochondrial electron carriers let's say aren't working as well maybe your engines are gunked up because they're you know there's a lot of deuterium around or whatever mitochondrial toxins in your environment so essentially methylene blue can come in and deliver electrons and kind of circumvent the blockade but in people who don't have a blockade it essentially just creates more chaos because now the electrons aren't going where they're supposed to they're going on this other thing which may be going you know where it's supposed to or may go somewhere else entirely yeah so i think it's kind of just playing with fire um ethylene blue in general especially at like high doses yeah at super low doses you could probably get away with it and it does have some like um nootropic effects um as well and like uh maoi effects as well mao inhibitor um so that's why it can't be combined with those drugs for example it can't be combined with what drugs the maois the monoamine oxidase inhibitors which are so give me an example of one of those uh i couldn't tell you the name maybe steve can look but it's basically their psychiatric medications for like depression and other issues um you could be given an maoi and also if you've ever seen some pharmaceutical commercials a lot of times they'll say do not combine with maois blah blah blah it's because like essentially there can be some synergistic effects which could overload certain neurotransmitters and create issues whatever these common medical seven uh several maois are currently utilized in clinical practice trannel a promine uh i don't never heard of any of this shit you gotta give me like the brand name trade name i don't know no no no parnate i don't know brand name parnate yeah non-selective irreversible monoamine oxidase inhibitor i don't know about that what are like the common names of these drugs though steve like what are the maybe search like common maois or something just yeah type in common maoi uh drug brand drug brand names let's see okay gave you the same nardil mar plan so allegedly for depression parkinson's yeah okay i heard that you can't do somebody told me you can't do uh you can't take methylene blue and do dmt um so that's no no no no it wasn't dmt it was uh maybe it was dmt somebody said it's not safe to take methylene blue with dmt okay or five htp so is methylene not my flea blue is dmt a monoamine i don't remember the structure so basically maybe it has like there's some sort of an effect with methylene blue it is a monoamine so basically it would prevent the breakdown of dmt but anyway people combine like syrian rue oh so it'll make it last it makes it last longer oh yeah okay because it's inhibiting the enzyme that breaks it down um and so like in some cultures i believe they they use dmt containing plants actually in ayahuasca there's a plant that contains an maoi and a plant that contains dmt yeah so they combine them intentionally to make it last exactly because the gut is full of um monoamine oxidases so if you're eating something with dmt and it gets rapidly broken down so you don't like start tripping balls right right right but if you inhibit those enzymes then you can but yeah basically methylene blue also acts as a an maoi so it's relevant for certain drug interactions okay stuff like that um did you read that patreon on jack's sub stack about or not something on his patreon about the uh the russian scientists who put the copper ring around a plant or something like this and it stopped cancer around a plant yeah around a plant yeah around a plant around a plant around a plant yeah a plant it said plant how did that stop cancer then i don't know the copper ring on it said it had a tumor oh the plant had a tumor yeah oh okay okay okay i don't know first of all i've never heard of a plant with a tumor so yeah plants can get tumors they can get growths and it said that there was like a study on a bunch of different plants and they gave them all the same cancer and uh they put like this copper ring around one of the plants and it just like thrived and it grew well that's interesting interesting i mean there's a lot of um i wouldn't say a lot of people but there's definitely some interest in electro culture in different parts of the country and in the world um where they're essentially using things like copper coils copper rods and i think it's kind of a little woo but i think they just describe it essentially bringing down more etheric energy into the ground that allows the plant to grow more and it actually does seem to do something i don't know if the mechanism is correct yeah i've heard people talk about copper before like selling copper as like a gimmicky health device or something yeah well jack has been talking recently about a lot about magnetism um and there's like a website called i think magnet rx where you can get like certain copper jewelry with little magnets on it that like he recommends wearing while you're flying for example to help um i guess keep the proper magnetic signals going on in the system when you're in this like very ungrounded high emf environment oh okay so like if you're on an airplane or something like that yeah that would explain why all the pilots wear those copper bracelets oh that's interesting i don't know if that's true i don't know i don't know if that's interesting i didn't know that yeah pilots really most pilots that i've met i i maybe it's just something that i noticed early and i started paying attention to and looking for it but i had noticed a lot of pilots wear those copper bracelets that's so interesting i'm gonna look tomorrow now yeah didn't we also do something where we had a guy in here telling us about this and we were like looking it up and we found out like this crazy thing this crazy uh prove like that was a proven study of the effect of copper i don't that might have been jeffrey drum uh i would say gosh what was it was it tarot no no no it was in this studio no i don't i don't recall that huh type in medical benefits of copper like wearing copper yeah wearing copper like copper jewelry maybe say like wearing copper or copper jewelry like copper wearable jewelry medical benefits see what we got anti-inflammatory and joint soothing effects scientific studies show that copper is one of the most harmful agents to the body and it has a very strong anti-inflammatory and joint soothing effects scientific studies show that copper is one of the most harmful agents to the body and it has a very strong anti-inflammatory and joint soothing effects scientific studies show that little evidence that copper is absorbed little evidence that copper is absorbed little evidence that copper is absorbed through the skin and quantities large enough through the skin and quantities large enough through the skin and quantities large enough to treat conditions like arthritis but many to treat conditions like arthritis but many to treat conditions like arthritis but many wearers report a positive okay maybe it's wearers report a positive okay maybe it's wearers report a positive okay maybe it's a placebo or spirit yeah but i mean that a placebo or spirit yeah but i mean that a placebo or spirit yeah but i mean that and that's assuming the mechanism is and that's assuming the mechanism is and that's assuming the mechanism is through copper absorption it may be through copper absorption it may be through copper absorption it may be something a little different something a little different right so like i don't even know how they're right so like i don't even know how they're right so like i don't even know how they're setting up these studies to begin setting up these studies to begin setting up these studies to begin with right so like it could be it could be with right so like it could be it could be with right so like it could be it could be biased and thinking that it's absorption of biased and thinking that it's absorption of biased and thinking that it's absorption of copper when it's actually like something copper when it's actually like something copper when it's actually like something bioelectric for example oh interesting bioelectric for example oh interesting bioelectric for example oh interesting so they could definitely they could they so they could definitely they could they so they could definitely they could they could test against it by using like a could test against it by using like a could test against it by using like a different type of metal alloy different type of metal alloy different type of metal alloy and seeing if it has a similar benefit and seeing if it has a similar benefit and seeing if it has a similar benefit or like putting on some sort of or like putting on some sort of or like putting on some sort of transdermal copper that's not like a transdermal copper that's not like a transdermal copper that's not like a bracelet but like or taking a copper bracelet but like or taking a copper bracelet but like or taking a copper supplement or something and like getting supplement or something and like getting supplement or something and like getting the blood levels to the same but maybe the blood levels to the same but maybe the blood levels to the same but maybe like the benefits wouldn't be the same like the benefits wouldn't be the same like the benefits wouldn't be the same right because they're saying it has to right because they're saying it has to right because they're saying it has to do with absorption but i don't think do with absorption but i don't think do with absorption but i don't think that has to be the case for sure very weird there's so many weird things very weird there's so many weird things very weird there's so many weird things yeah i don't know about i don't know yeah i don't know about i don't know yeah i don't know about i don't know people are doing like lots of people are doing like lots of people are doing like lots of interesting stuff out in the world i interesting stuff out in the world i interesting stuff out in the world i try to tell everybody i know to stop try to tell everybody i know to stop try to tell everybody i know to stop wearing sunglasses and no one ever listens to me what yeah I know there's a lot I saw a lot of people wearing sunglasses here but also just in general people love them yeah in Europe it was even worse when I visited last year they were like it's like fashion I think yeah I was in Prague so I think it was like a fashionable statement or whatever to wear sunglasses but I'm like whenever I see somebody wearing sunglasses I just think they look geriatric I'm like ew that's such a turn off yeah yeah well the problem around here is there's like a lot of people that fish and they need the sunglasses to see through the water right you know well that's at least a functional not like just fashion yeah I could respect that yes but if you're going on a run I mean you should take them off right yeah and your eyes are even more sensitive the more you wear them so you need to like right if you don't want to need them then you need to go without them and like build it's not like a callus per se but it like it just regulates the amount of light that your eye is expecting to receive so if you're constantly in this dim environment also huge implications from a circadian mental health metabolic perspective because the brightness of the light coming in through your eyes is really important from a circadian perspective which also when you're exposed to super bright light like from the sun we're talking like a hundred thousand two hundred thousand lux or more most indoor environments are like less than a thousand lux and if you're putting those sunglasses on you're reducing that lux dramatically so that brightness of that light is now not able to interface with your eye and help to stimulate your metabolic functions your neurochemistry to be more alert and awake and and like higher mood and also could potentially like inhibit your circadian rhythm as well and make it a little bit more distorted so you're you know during the day your body's expecting to receive bright light isn't it also true that if you're getting like a large exposure of sunlight to your skin but not your eyes that's when you get more skin cancer I mean nobody's done that study but I think it would be an interesting one sun burning skin cancer yeah essentially because that palm C mechanism I was talking about earlier can we do the study it would be very easy to do we're doing rats or something we can do on humans like we can just see if we're burning like if we're just talking about burning I feel like it's not going to be that unethical like set out of 10 people that have the same Fitzpatrick status though obviously there's lots of variables here like what's it called Fitzpatrick skin type is basically like how pale or how dark your skin is yeah um there's other variables that will dictate how quickly you burn though so you might need a pretty large N or like sample size but like what your diet's composed of like if you're eating a lot of processed foods or you're eating you know more whole foods based diet is there any correlation between people who burn easily and skin cancer yeah so if you burn easily you're more predisposed to skin cancer especially certain types of skin cancer I think the data on melanoma is kind of a little bit ambiguous because there's some studies that say like your history of burns is increasing your risk and there's others that say that it's actually decreasing your risk so um that's kind of interesting but when it comes to the basal cell carcinomas and the squamous cell carcinomas the burn history does seem to have some sort of a association yeah could be direct could be indirect could be both Why aren't there no studies being done on this stuff? There's no money to be made? I mean, the jury's already out on sun equals bad, right? So I feel like there's just no motivation to do the research. Obviously, I don't think people fully buy that. Some people obviously put on all the sunscreen and sunglasses, et cetera, when they go out. But I think most people generally know they feel better when they're in the sun. I don't think a lot of people know that you feel good because you're getting UV light through your eyes and on your skin. Then it becomes, if you know that, it becomes obvious why you wouldn't want to wear sunblock and sunglasses when you're going outside. Yeah. So do you, as soon as you wake up in the morning, you go outside and watch the sunrise every single day? I don't always get sunrise because I've been doing a lot of Latin dance lately. So sometimes I'm out late wearing my blue blockers, but I am out late sometimes. But regardless what time I wake up, the first thing I do is go outside, whatever time it is, so that I'm at least getting that signal into my eyes. Ideally, it is sunrise because the ratio of blue and red is really special at that time of day. That helps optimize the cortisol response. And then UVA rise comes shortly after, and that helps to anchor in the circadian rhythm in tissues locally in the eyes and the skin, other tissues as well. And then midday, obviously, is when UVA is at its peak. So from a nitric oxide production perspective, POMC, vitamin D perspective, that's when the sun is the most concentrated. So you can maximize the production of those things during midday. And then sunset is kind of a repeat of sunrise. So you're able to kind of get two chances each day. Yeah. To receive those benefits. Right. And yeah, so. And another thing I argue with my friends about all the time too, is like, all the people, is it true? I don't remember if we talked about this the first time, but is there a correlation between where the sun is in the sky, like the circadian rhythm, and like when you should eat, like how the digestive system works? Yeah. So from a circadian perspective, there's actually pretty cool data on this. I mean, it's very clear that the sun is at its peak, but it's not at its peak when it's in the sky. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why I think it's important to think about this. And I think that's one of the reasons why I think that the sun is at its peak. I think that's one of the reasons why I think it's important to think about this. Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why I think it's important to think about this. I think it's one of the reasons why I think about this. I think it's one of the reasons why I think it's important to think about this. The other thing about these drugs that's very problematic is like they don't have any sort of um plan for these people it's just like take this drug and stay on it indefinitely right obviously they're incentivized to have that model because then they make the most money as well yeah but then like the moment people come off these drugs like you know i have no doubt the weight starts coming back immediately and maybe even gets to a point that's worse than where they started so they're super incentivized to stay on these things why does jack think it's take decades on people's lives so my understanding of this essentially is what the glps are doing is kind of breaking an inherent circuit that exists within the body that's like a feedback loop okay so like i mentioned before in the environment uvb light is naturally meant to come in and stimulate the palm c production and give us these kind of outputs so what the glps are doing is they're telling our biology that there's an abundance of energy available and that you know essentially that means it can be in the form of sunlight so high uv light can be in the uh an abundance of food in the environment because it's mimicking the same pathways that foods would naturally stimulate glp-1 right and like they would stimulate satiety just like actually signals was designed to do that as well um to stimulate glp-1 maximally and everything to but actually by giving you the nutrients you need not by tricking the body right so what the glp-1 drugs are doing is they're tricking the body into thinking they have an abundance of energy and so then that's shutting down appetite and increasing energy expenditure however the problem is there's actually an energy deficit and so these are very conflicting signals so essentially the body thinks it has ample resources to do what it needs to do but it's actually completely depleting resources so from a bioenergetic standpoint it would make total sense that you know you're not only just losing fat but you're potentially breaking down your your energy producing engines like your mitochondria for example and having major ramifications in the long term i don't know if anybody's actually looking at that i would imagine there would be major short-term bloat like ramifications for that if you're if you're burning through if it's faking your energy and you're burning through all that i would imagine you'd feel that in like a week well i mean i don't know about a week but obviously a lot of people are losing a lot of lean mass in addition to fat mass yeah it's like bone mass muscle mass tendons i heard that there's one that increases muscle and melts fat and it's called it's the combination of rata and glp-1 rata yeah that's what it was yeah a wonder drug it does sound like a wonder anything that sounds too good to be true is for sure right what does this say stephen all right so uh yeah the the studies are not very long so two years two to four years there's a two and a four year trial um and then there's an ongoing study that started in 2023 where they will start studying each person like for 10 years so that just started like a few years ago and then 10 years they're going to be like oops yeah so what are we going to do with all these trillions of dollars i know whatever will we do so i said but also says 20 reduction in major adverse cardiovascular events yeah i mean if we're talking about morbidly what is that compared to though uh that's a good question i mean their control reduction compared to what like was there a control group i guess so whenever you do studies like that typically there's a control group that's given a placebo injection like a saline injection versus the people who actually have the real one and then they look at the outcome so i would i would guess that the people with the placebo probably know their placebo because they're not going to start rapidly losing weight at that same level so i mean you could make the argument that maybe the placebo isn't a full control group actually yeah so i had a friend who was in here the other day uh who had just how old did matt turn for his birthday he turned 60. is that it no no 55 50 turned 55 or something like this yeah and he came in here and uh for some reason we got on the topic of this and he's like oh yeah i'm on that i'm like really i'm like i guess i mean i guess there's so many people i see every day that are on it but i shouldn't be surprised and he was explaining i'm like i heard that you lose like all these uh like desires like they go away and he's like oh yeah that's true i'm like even your sexual desire he's like yeah unfortunately but i've got a lot more medications to handle that too so now they can make money selling that and the viagra at the same time so it's just like it works hand in hand for them well that's what i'm saying it's also stimulating the dopaminergic system and the dopamine is what makes you feel like rewarded and good and like you did the thing so like congrats like your body is giving you a reward for doing whatever it is yeah this is just giving it to you immediately through the endorphins like you're not in the sun you're not completing a hard task or whatever so it's like it's like the dopamine slot machine like those rats that like would just constantly hit the cocaine yeah in the cage obviously if they're in a like a community they didn't do that but like they're isolated rats they just keep hitting the darn thing until they die yeah it's like that yeah and it's just so bizarre to me how there's you know that all these people are trying there's so many peptides and they're killing them and they're killing them and so many peptides that are available now to try totally and like you know they sound amazing i tried one the sleep peptide i forget what it was called now but it's supposed to make you have like crazy rem sleep and uh i didn't really notice it was a penelon yes yes that was it about that so that's one of the covincent peptides there was this russian guy his last name was convinced and like decades ago he was basically studying these different like natural peptides produced in the body and then like making them synthetically or isolating them and then giving them to people and seeing what happens so right yeah i think i tried penelon like years ago i didn't notice i didn't know anything either yeah maybe it has to be injected i don't know but like yeah the peptides are like the craze right now like everyone is talking about how many peptides they're on and so many of those are like the research chemicals too they're not there's no like third-party testing and you don't really know what you're getting yeah but it's just like the peptide it's just like a fancy word for medication though right so a peptide is just a small protein yeah it's just a string of amino acids right um but it's basically a medication i mean some of these are made in the body naturally as well but obviously you could be mega dosing them which is a physiologic it's not mimicking what your body would naturally make also the root of um administration could be different like for example with like bp157 it's made in the gastric cells within the stomach um so if you're injecting that for example that may not be like physiologic because it's meant to be produced in the stomach and like into the gi tract and not really into your arm yeah huh so i've used that before like on tendon areas that i've like messed up and i feel like i really noticed a difference it might yeah it might have a placebo it might be placebo also when you're injecting it you're creating a micro inflammation that may stimulate immune function and help to repair the tissues as well um it's hard to say but that doesn't mean that like nobody should ever use any peptides but i think mostly it's the wild west and we don't really know the ramifications of potentially down the road i'm at least inclined to think that the ones that are naturally produced in the body are probably less harmful than the synthetic ones but that could also be not true as well depending on the dose and how they're administered etc yeah yeah yeah what have you been paying close attention to all this stuff like i haven't because i haven't any of the stuff that like bobby kennedy has been doing recently with all this stuff like pushing stuff through fda with the peptides and all the psychedelics and all that i'm so like disenfranchised with everything yeah everything politics i'm just done yeah no it's i feel the same way i feel burned out by it me too so yeah i know he's been doing some things to help with peptide legality or whatever like access but yeah i don't know nothing ever changes in the swamp something like that oh my god i was listening to somebody who was it i think it was jd vance on joe rogan it was on rogan yeah and he was like oh dc is called the swamp because it's built on swampland and joe's like i'm pretty sure that's not why it's called that i caught that that was hilarious lots of swamp creatures roaming around there that's why yeah exactly yeah that was crazy that was crazy one yeah i know so like i was like very hopeful too before this like trump two um presidency but it just all went to yeah it's like worse than i could have ever imagined worse than anyone could have ever imagined right yes yes it's a 180 basically on the campaign problem 180. 180 total 180. yeah yeah yeah so i'm just checked out from all of it yeah just focus on myself and milking every last penny that they possibly can you know it makes hunter biden look like chucky cheese the amount of money that he was making compared to the money that they're making of everything the new thing with the um with the truth social they're making it uh like paid access or whatever did you see that because what what what they're selling it as is like a a truth social post from trump can affect the stock market so now he's going to start making his posts specifically about like geopolitics or about like international trade behind a paywall because that is a huge benefit to stock traders oh my god what a scam it's crazy it's like the meme coins trump coin yeah yeah it's just like that right everything's a money grab everything's a money grab it's insane it's never ending it is it is i just try to focus on what matters most in my own life and trying to help people around me and yeah that's a good way to look at life yeah otherwise like focusing on these like more global scale activities it's just kind of fruitless yeah it's fruitless and it's it's stressful exactly not healthy yeah exactly it's not healthy and like all forms of stress are harmful to our biology so we have to manage that as well and like save our stress for things we actually enjoy right like working out or cold plunging or sauna whatever it is right yeah um well thank you for doing this this was so fun i feel like we covered a diverse array of topics yeah we were all over the place yeah tell people about your podcast and all the stuff that you do and where they can find you yeah so my podcast is called indoctrinate yourself um i haven't posted recently but i have I have a podcast episode coming out this week with Aaron Siri. That's the lawyer? Yeah. Okay. It's the lawyer, like the vaccine injury lawyer. And yeah, I like to just have like nice different diverse array of guests that are kind of thinking outside of the box and like pushing, kind of just like pushing into a new paradigm and like bucking the status quo. And so that's my podcast. And then I'm mostly active on Instagram at Dr. Alexis Jasmine. And I post a lot of free content on there. People can learn about science, especially in the realm of circadian biology, quantum biology, mitochondrial biology. So if any of that sounds interesting, you can check out my page for a bunch of free stuff. I have a couple of e-books, a couple more coming. I have my course that I started by talking about, which is like the mini undergraduate degree, essentially, that we're still working through. It's coming up on a year, but we're just going to keep going until I feel satisfied with it. I have a new course coming out soon. That's kind of like a mini course on like how to implement the information in like quantum and circadian. Stuff like protocols basically that are bite size and digestible. And if people want to learn the science, we're going to do some of that, but that's mostly in my other courses. We're mostly going to focus on like the action items and what you can do in your day-to-day life to feel better and think better and all that stuff. And so that's kind of what I'm working on. Oh, you got Patreon questions. Oh, all right. We do. Cool. Well, we'll link all of your stuff below for folks to find it. And thanks again. Thank you. This was so fun. Good night world. Endless summer escapes. Start here. Play leveled up arcade games. Beat the heat. Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids. That's why she shops at BJ's Wholesale Club, saving up to 25% off grocery store prices. Beef jerky, microwave meals, laundry pods, even they can't screw up. Have you met my kids? 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