#419 - Mossad Assassin TELLS ALL: Epstein, Iran War & Netanyahu's Next Move | Juval Aviv

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I never thought in a million years that I'd be interviewing a Mossad assassin on my podcast. Well, yes, I can understand your feelings. You're the first one that I'm at least aware of that has been here. Yeah, yes. I guess first of all. I'd like to just say past assassin. Past assassin, not current assassin. No, not current Mossad assassin. And not officially current association with Mossad. That I leave open. Okay, we'll leave that for people to guess. People can speculate in the comments. What was your first operation with the Mossad? I was actually a graduate. I graduated from. Yeah. From an Israeli military elite unit. It's an Israeli SEAL unit, like the American SEALs. And when I graduated the unit and finished my duty, I became Golda Meir's bodyguard. She was the prime minister of Israel, and I became her personal bodyguard. Wow. So for two or three years, I actually acted as her, traveled with her all over the world. And that was not a Mossad, an assignment. Then the Munich Olympic massacre happened, where 11 Israeli athletes were killed by terrorists during the Olympics in Munich. Golda Meir decided to avenge the Munich massacre in such a way that it will send a message to terrorists. You do what you do, but we will find you individually. For as long as it takes, and we'll bring you to justice. You will not be able to travel freely and live freely for the rest of your life. To do so, those terrorists who did the massacre, some of them lived in it and masterminded it. Those who masterminded it lived in Europe. They were not hiding in Arab countries because they were afraid that Israel will retaliate easily. They were not operating in Arab countries, but they would be afraid to operate in Europe because Europe will not allow that. So to do so, to find them and bring them to justice, Golda made a decision to put together a team of five commando agents who would go undercover in Europe, will search for those terrorists, and as they find them, bring them to justice. I was assigned to lead. I was assigned to lead the team of five. I was 22 years old. I traveled to Europe before, but I never had an assignment such, such an assignment. So off we left, and right when I left, my daughter was born in Israel, and I couldn't even travel back to Israel to see her until much, much later. We were not allowed to come back and visit Israel. We lived in safe houses all over Europe, and for three and a half years, we were chasing those terrorists. We did find them one by one and brought them to justice. They were all met their makers in different countries, in different cities, and it became a real mega operation. During that mission, I lost three of my own team members to accidents. I claim it's accidents, but the Mossad thought that maybe they were also assassinated. And when it was over, it was only one other member and myself who were left. We decided to quit and just leave. It was the end of it. Because Mossad suddenly had more list of people that they wanted to get rid of. So this is not a career that I wanted to keep going. I had a family, young family now, and I wanted to just leave. So that was your first and last official. That was the first and last. I moved to the United States, brought my wife and my daughter to the U.S., and decided I'm going to make America my home. At one point, I wrote a book about that mission called Vengeance. The book became a bestseller worldwide. It was translated to 32 languages. And at one point, Steven Spielberg bought the rights to the book and my life story. And the movie, Munich, is based on my. Your life story. There was another movie made on the same subject by a Canadian producer called The Sword of Gideon. It became an HBO miniseries, and then it became a full-time movie all over the world. So that was the one big Mossad operation that put me on the scene and created my beginning in the United States. Why do you think. Why did she choose you to lead that operation? I think because she had. First of all, she knew very well my parents. She. I became like a son to her. And she felt comfortable that I will do the right thing. And when she made the decision, she took me aside. I'll never forget that. Put her arm on my shoulder and said, listen carefully. No. No innocent bystander should be hurt in that mission. If you have to stop the mission for a while because you are worried about innocent bystanders, you do that. In a way, she said, don't call us, we'll call you. And congratulations and good luck to you. If you are. If you are successful, we will read it in the papers. If you are not, who cares? And that was the goodbye the last time I spoke to her before I went to that mission. And didn't you say there was a specific protocol that had to be taken where you had to like stop the people and look them in the eye and ask them? Well, that was. Then I met the team members that I had never met before. I was the youngest team member. The rest of them were much older and had experience. Like CIA. I'm sorry, Mossad experience. And my first worry was, why would they listen to me? Right. I'm the young guy. And I have to give credit to Mossad. They chose and put a team together that never had an argument, never had an issue internally. I always ask everyone for their opinion. What should we do? How should we do it? Recommended advice and so on. But when I made the final decision, they all agreed to it and acted upon it. So that was one thing that I still think going back. Because now that I put teams together to do some other things, I know how hard it is to put a team together that don't have internal conflict among themselves. That don't have their own agendas. God forbid they can't be bought. That could also happen. And then you're in trouble. Because they can go against you. So that was all done mysteriously by Mossad and it all worked out. So I have to give them credit for that. How it ended is a different story. I decided not to go back to Israel because I knew if I go back to Israel at the time, they will force me in a way to continue doing what I was doing. Oh, you're talking about you're fast forwarding to when you moved to New York. Yeah, and then I decided that New York would be the place I want to be. And how, so I want to linger on that, it was Wrath of God, is that the name of the operation? Well, it was, yeah, yeah. Were you guys hunted down? those guys did you hunt down 11 11 of them and it took how long three and a half years three and a half years three and a half years yes what was it like were you guys all traveling together and camping out in safe houses together and we all stayed at a safe house together we chose different safe houses which at one point i can elaborate about because it's a story by itself because we didn't rent it or design it we had nothing to do with mossad this was our operation before we left mossad assigned to us gave us 20 million dollars in a swiss bank account for that operation that we can draw money as we need to pay for information resources uh buying weapons buying explosive whatever we needed wow and i was the one who had the signature at the bank to go and um draw money and i have to tell you that we were so honest and so i cannot i'm looking for a word that we never used the operation money for our own purposes if we have to buy shoes or we have to do something else or good we paid with our own allowance money and not that 20 million dollars 20 million dollars that were assigned for that looking back today i should have probably take a few million dollars put aside for rainy days because of how it ended with mossad who um will get into it um didn't pay me any end for the operation not anything anything uh so and didn't you at what point did you meet uh yoni yoni and yeah that was before before i left i mean much before much before and when i attended joined the antebe raid to release the terrorist in and tap the israeli hostages in antebe okay he led so you weren't that was not you were no no association with massad when you were doing that no no no no but so we're talking about bb netanyahu's old uh younger brother younger brother younger brother yeah yeah um that was a different operation i was already in new york i operated in new york and the government called me and said we want you back to join this operation i see so that's how i joined that so now i'm in new york and i have to do something with my life i'm illegally in new york i have no no green card or no visas i came in on some of the passports that i had from the operations so you gotta when you did the operation when you prepare when you went to go prepare to do that they have to give you a bunch of passports in case you guys didn't have to give me they gave us one passport to leave the country and then i had to go and purchase you had to go oh you so they left they just gave you the money and you had to do all the work yes yes it's a lot of work started was getting papers proper paper oh is that here sorry that's okay tell him assad we said hello yeah so what have happened is the idea was they needed deniability that's why the whole operation was done the way it was done ah i see israel wanted to make sure that if something goes wrong and we get crazy and do something crazy and we get crazy and we get crazy and we get crazy they can say no we don't know those people there are crazy israelis who took upon themselves to do it on their own uh there are vigilantes there we don't know them and the only thing that they would provide is legal defense through a third party that's the agreement right which is why the money had to be put into a swiss that's the swiss bank account that's why they had no control of it that's why they couldn't pay you that's why they couldn't pay you no they could they have they could have found a creative way to pay you oh yeah of course um no but they have done to each one of us they created another account and put like a salary into it right amount of money that will grow through the duration of the operation and when it's over we will have a nice sum of money to retire to do whatever we wanted to do now i didn't know that those accounts were also controlled by them i thought they only opened them so any every month every two months is to visit the account and see how my money is growing and i was enjoying it and said in the end i had about three three hundred fifty thousand dollars in the account in three and a half years so i said that would be a nice chunk of money that i could then use to retire in new york right little i know when i went to retire and they didn't like it i went to pick up the money at the bank the guy told me in a bank i'm sorry to tell you but you have three dollars in the account right now so apparently they had the right to put the money and also take the money out so they thought if they take the money out i'll be penniless i have no papers i have nowhere to go i'll be forced to come back to israel and that really gave me the strength to continue staying in america and said no they're not going to control my life i will now do what i have to do to survive and hopefully get an american citizenship and stay in america that was a plan so when you made the decision to leave the massad and come to america did you officially go to anybody and declare that yeah of course i traveled to israel i said i'm leaving i said well take a few years you want and when you come back we'll discuss it and i never came back to discuss it i told them i'm out it's over and they know that i'm in new york because i moved my wife and my daughter to new york and they know where we are i mean it's not and you're you're like 25 by this point you're like 25 26 years old yes so now i'm in new york and i need a job and i couldn't get a job because i couldn't go for an interview anytime i went to a job interview and they said what have you been doing for the last 10 years i couldn't tell them i said i'm sorry i can't tell you and they probably thought that either was in jail or i was in a looney house or something like that so always said nice to see you and that's the end of the interview so i started driving a cab in new york i found a friend in brooklyn who owned two cabs and gave me one of the cabs and i became a cab driver in new york just to survive and that was for 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fruiting bodies themselves most people start with two to three capsules and adjust slowly from there go to amantara.com go dj and use the code djp22 for 22 off your first order again that's a-m-e-n-t-a-r-a.com go dj and use the code djp22 for 22 off your first order then at one point masad realized i'm not coming back so one night i get a knock at the door and two fbi agent came to see me and said mr aviv we know who you are we know why you are here and musad have asked us to put you on a plane and send you back to israel the fbi said this yes so i said to them um well i need to pack i mean i need the time so they said yeah we'll come back in 24 hours and pack your stuff and be ready to go to the airport you and your wife and you can and your daughter i immediately through friends that i developed i immediately through friends that i developed friends that i developed at the time i got a very good immigration lawyer sandra levitt who it was the uh immigration lawyer at the time she's retired now and she said to me you are now under my you're a client of mine now as long as i am applying for papers for you for visa and for green card and so on they cannot touch you if they come back to pick you up tell them to call me you are now oh avocados jesus god that's never happened tree branch we have an avocado tree over there oh and it's dropping avocados oh it's so windy maybe i should pick him up when i leave wow okay all right yeah where were we so they came back and i told them call the lawyer and gave him the business card and they called sandra and they left me alone then they came back um about two three weeks later and said mr aviv um we checked you out we did our own investigation on you and we would like to hire you as a consultant to us would you work for us the fbi yes so i said god bless america of course um i said to him under one condition i don't do any work on your behalf against israel and i can assure you that i'm not doing any work on behalf of israel against you against america if that is agreeable i am agreeable to do work depending on what type of work that you have in mind they said well it's anti-terrorism you are we need you as a consultant on anti-terrorism and for 14 years i was a full-time consultant to the fbi wow as a consultant on anti-terrorism and some other operations against the kgb against russia and so on that at the time because they saw that i had the connections in europe that i still have capabilities so they enjoyed that that is that relationship stopped at the time when i took on an investigation on behalf of pan am airline okay and we don't go into it right now but we'll talk about it later that relationship stopped right then because i wrote a report as a finding of my investigation on the panam lakab report that the cia didn't like the fbi didn't like and they canceled our relationship and said you were persona non-grata persona non-grata you can't work for us anymore you're probably anti-american because of what you said in a report so that ended that time um you're probably anti-american because of what you said in the report so that ended that time um you're probably anti-american because of what you said in the report so that ended that time um you're probably anti-american because of what you said in the report so that ended that time during the time that 14 years during the time that 14 years during the time that 14 years they didn't have work for me every day they didn't have work for me every day they didn't have work for me every day because terrorism at the time wasn't because terrorism at the time wasn't because terrorism at the time wasn't really big for the united states what really big for the united states what really big for the united states what what years are we talking it's late what years are we talking it's late what years are we talking it's late um um um late 80s early 90s okay late 80s early 90s okay late 80s early 90s okay so real quick yeah real quick yeah real quick yeah can you tell the story what happened in can you tell the story what happened in can you tell the story what happened in this how far after this how far after this how far after you you you coming to new york from israel did this coming to new york from israel did this coming to new york from israel did this happen yeah that's that's what happen yeah that's that's what happen yeah that's that's what once the israel realized going back now once the israel realized going back now once the israel realized going back now to the time that to the time that to the time that the fbi came in yeah and then i said the fbi came in yeah and then i said the fbi came in yeah and then i said i'm not going i have a lawyer now and i i'm not going i have a lawyer now and i i'm not going i have a lawyer now and i applied for papers and i also told the applied for papers and i also told the fbi one of the reason i am going fbi one of the reason i am going fbi one of the reason i am going agree to work with you i want you to agree to work with you i want you to agree to work with you i want you to influence the immigration and give me influence the immigration and give me influence the immigration and give me a visa and legitimately being and i want a visa and legitimately being and i want a visa and legitimately being and i want a green card a green card a green card bless you bless you bless you and they said absolutely and in those and they said absolutely and in those and they said absolutely and in those days they could have done it today they days they could have done it today they days they could have done it today they couldn't do give you a green card or couldn't do give you a green card or couldn't do give you a green card or arrange for it and so on if the life arrange for it and so on if the life arrange for it and so on if the life depend on it they couldn't depend on it they couldn't depend on it they couldn't i was the way the environment is now so i was the way the environment is now so i was the way the environment is now so in very short time indeed i got a green in very short time indeed i got a green in very short time indeed i got a green card card card i became an american legitimate citizen i became an american legitimate citizen i became an american legitimate citizen in this country nobody can touch me in this country nobody can touch me in this country nobody can touch me israel realized they lost the ball they israel realized they lost the ball they israel realized they lost the ball they cannot bring me back now they can cannot bring me back now they can can't force me to come back can't force me to come back can't force me to come back they moved to plan b they moved to plan b they moved to plan b one night and you know there's a few one night and you know there's a few one night and you know there's a few months now that i'm in in the um months now that i'm in in the um months now that i'm in in the um in new york in new york in new york it's still the operation in europe is it's still the operation in europe is it's still the operation in europe is fresh i'm paranoid about everything fresh i'm paranoid about everything fresh i'm paranoid about everything because i saw how easy it was because i saw how easy it was because i saw how easy it was relatively easy for us to find those relatively easy for us to find those terrorists and kill them in europe you terrorists and kill them in europe you terrorists and kill them in europe you were worried about retaliation i was were worried about retaliation i was were worried about retaliation i was worried about retaliation because worried about retaliation because worried about retaliation because i said you know members of the families i said you know members of the families i said you know members of the families of those deceased of those deceased of those deceased would maybe try to avenge it also and would maybe try to avenge it also and would maybe try to avenge it also and yeah new york you have to find somebody yeah new york you have to find somebody yeah new york you have to find somebody in new york it's not as easy in new york it's not as easy in new york it's not as easy but still they can do that but still they can do that so i was really security and awareness so i was really security and awareness so i was really security and awareness was was was i still has the same issue and i still i still has the same issue and i still i still has the same issue and i still maintain the same same paranoia paranoia maintain the same same paranoia paranoia maintain the same same paranoia paranoia really yeah i mean it will never end really yeah i mean it will never end really yeah i mean it will never end until and until and until and the book came out the movie came out of the book came out the movie came out of the book came out the movie came out of course course course so so so one night one night one night i hear i hear i hear a knock at the door a knock at the door a knock at the door and i was living on in a brownstone on and i was living on in a brownstone on and i was living on in a brownstone on a lower floor which is a lower floor which is a lower floor which is against all against all against all all all all security security security guidelines but i couldn't afford guidelines but i couldn't afford guidelines but i couldn't afford anything else anything else anything else so this is when you were still driving so this is when you were still driving so this is when you were still driving the cab i'm still driving a cab the cab i'm still driving a cab the cab i'm still driving a cab so i slowly go to the window to look so i slowly go to the window to look so i slowly go to the window to look what it and i saw a car what it and i saw a car what it and i saw a car driving away but i couldn't read the driving away but i couldn't read the driving away but i couldn't read the plates nothing plates nothing plates nothing i waited a little bit i thought maybe i waited a little bit i thought maybe i waited a little bit i thought maybe it's an maybe it was just somebody it's an maybe it was just somebody it's an maybe it was just somebody playing games maybe somebody wants me to playing games maybe somebody wants me to playing games maybe somebody wants me to come to the door and then they'll shoot come to the door and then they'll shoot come to the door and then they'll shoot me and so on so i let few hours pass me and so on so i let few hours pass me and so on so i let few hours pass then i slowly opened the door i saw an then i slowly opened the door i saw an then i slowly opened the door i saw an envelope pinned to the door little envelope pinned to the door little envelope pinned to the door little envelope envelope envelope take the envelope down go back i open take the envelope down go back i open take the envelope down go back i open the envelope the envelope the envelope and i see a picture of my daughter and i see a picture of my daughter and i see a picture of my daughter with a target on his face i if you look at me now and you see how i if you look at me now and you see how i if you look at me now and you see how much hair i have i lost that hair that much hair i have i lost that hair that much hair i have i lost that hair that night night night it wasn't on the mission um i said it wasn't on the mission um i said it wasn't on the mission um i said that would be the worst that could happen that would be the worst that could happen that would be the worst that could happen i don't care if they kill me if i don't care if they kill me if i don't care if they kill me if they go after me right but my daughter they go after me right but my daughter they go after me right but my daughter then then then i said i looked at the pictures wait a i said i looked at the pictures wait a i said i looked at the pictures wait a minute this is a picture that i took of minute this is a picture that i took of minute this is a picture that i took of my daughter my daughter my daughter and i made only three copies one i have and i made only three copies one i have and i made only three copies one i have and two of them i sent to israel and two of them i sent to israel to my mother one and one to my mother-in-law to my mother one and one to my mother-in-law to my mother one and one to my mother-in-law so i knew right there and then so i knew right there and then so i knew right there and then somebody intercepted those pictures in somebody intercepted those pictures in somebody intercepted those pictures in israel israel israel and now i understand what's who's behind and now i understand what's who's behind and now i understand what's who's behind it and explain how when you saw the picture how when you saw the picture how when you saw the picture of your daughter and it had the bull's of your daughter and it had the bull's of your daughter and it had the bull's eye on it eye on it eye on it you didn't perceive that as a direct you didn't perceive that as a direct you didn't perceive that as a direct threat threat threat oh yes oh yes oh yes i i i definitely definitely definitely received it as a threat as a threat but received it as a threat as a threat but received it as a threat as a threat but my point was my point was my point was if some if it was an actual assassin oh if some if it was an actual assassin oh if some if it was an actual assassin oh no no no no no no it it's not the type of threat it it's not the type of threat it it's not the type of threat that an assassin wouldn't send a picture that an assassin wouldn't send a picture that an assassin wouldn't send a picture exactly exactly exactly no no no no no no a threat no no no no no no a threat no no no no no no a threat wanted to murder one of your family wanted to murder one of your family wanted to murder one of your family members they would not drop that thing members they would not drop that thing members they would not drop that thing when we did the 11 terrorists we didn't when we did the 11 terrorists we didn't when we did the 11 terrorists we didn't send the pictures send the pictures send the pictures exactly no no of course exactly no no of course exactly no no of course naturally naturally naturally but it's worse but it's worse but it's worse the psychological part of it is worse the psychological part of it is worse the psychological part of it is worse i'd rather somebody just shoot me i'd rather somebody just shoot me i'd rather somebody just shoot me when i don't know then send me pictures when i don't know then send me pictures when i don't know then send me pictures of my daughter was uh and then you know of my daughter was uh and then you know of my daughter was uh and then you know put a psychological threat on me put a psychological threat on me put a psychological threat on me so so so i decided i have to do something about it i decided i have to do something about it i decided i have to do something about it for a little money for a little money for a little money didn't you call didn't you call didn't you call uh okay i'm getting uh okay i'm getting uh okay i'm getting so i took so i took so i took i went and bought a cheap camera i went and bought a cheap camera i went and bought a cheap camera and in new york at the time all the and in new york at the time all the and in new york at the time all the israeli delegates to the united nation israeli delegates to the united nation israeli delegates to the united nation to to to um um um worked worked worked in lived in lived in lived resided in one building in right in resided in one building in right in resided in one building in right in queens queens queens but wasn't there someone tried to kidnap but wasn't there someone tried to kidnap but wasn't there someone tried to kidnap your daughter before that okay okay okay your daughter before that okay okay okay your daughter before that okay okay okay so um um um i decided i decided i decided to go to that building to the parking to go to that building to the parking to go to that building to the parking lot lot lot where the kids are playing and i took where the kids are playing and i took where the kids are playing and i took pictures pictures pictures of kids of 11 of members of the of kids of 11 of members of the of kids of 11 of members of the israeli embassy israeli embassy israeli embassy consulate in new york consulate in new york consulate in new york their daughters the kids were playing their daughters the kids were playing their daughters the kids were playing there so let me ask you this how did you there so let me ask you this how did you there so let me ask you this how did you know that it was it was israel doing know that it was it was israel doing know that it was it was israel doing this and not not some of the black this and not not some of the black september no no who had those pictures september no no who had those pictures september no no who had those pictures only israel had it oh i see oh so only israel had it oh i see oh so only israel had it oh i see oh so that's what gave it away because yeah that's what gave it away because yeah that's what gave it away because yeah okay i mean that's i i assumed and it okay i mean that's i i assumed and it okay i mean that's i i assumed and it made sense made sense made sense that they would try to do something now that they would try to do something now that they would try to do something now to just scare me so much that i would to just scare me so much that i would to just scare me so much that i would pack my stuff and come back go back to pack my stuff and come back go back to israel right israel right israel right so so so um i took the pictures developed them um i took the pictures developed them um i took the pictures developed them went to the counselor's office in new went to the counselor's office in new went to the counselor's office in new york york york got into the counselor office got into the counselor office got into the counselor office poor guy was sitting poor guy was sitting poor guy was sitting behind his desk and i said to him hear behind his desk and i said to him hear behind his desk and i said to him hear me out me out me out you know who i am you know who i am you know who i am you know what i've been doing for the you know what i've been doing for the you know what i've been doing for the last and he didn't uh for the last few last and he didn't uh for the last few last and he didn't uh for the last few years years years but but but something happened something happened something happened and i showed him the picture of my and i showed him the picture of my and i showed him the picture of my daughter and i said now pay attention daughter and i said now pay attention daughter and i said now pay attention i opened my envelope i put all the i opened my envelope i put all the i opened my envelope i put all the pictures that i took in front of him and pictures that i took in front of him and pictures that i took in front of him and his two kids were also his two kids were also his two kids were also there how old oh they were all like six there how old oh they were all like six And so I said to him, listen carefully, tell Israel that if anything happens to my daughter, never mind, they want to have a fight with me, let's do it. But if anything happened to my wife or my daughter, I will kill all the kids. And you know who I am if you don't find out. And I left the room. He ran after me, said, no, I don't know anything about it, please. I said, I don't know if you know or you don't know. Just send a message to Israel. Two days later, for a whole year, there were two bodyguards, Israeli bodyguards from the embassy, from the consulate, parked in front of my house, taking my daughter to kindergarten, staying there. Because I told them, even if it's an accident, I'll assume it's you guys. So you take care, make sure nothing happens to my wife and my daughter. And that was the end of it. Never heard from them again. And I'm. After a while, it was disappeared. Summertime is here, which means everybody suddenly thinks they're a grill master. Burgers and steaks are easy, but the second you try to cook vegetables, shrimp, or fish, everything starts to stick and fall apart. 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That's H-E-X-C-L-A-D dot com forward slash dannyjones. Support our show and make sure you let them know we sent you. Then I decided I need to do something drastic to really get an insurance policy. And I decided to write the book, to write Vengeance, to tell the entire story of Munich. I didn't write it myself. I had a bestseller writer, Canadian writer, George Jonas, who wrote it. And it became, as I said, a bestseller. And then the movie, Munich, based on it, became seven awards. It got seven. Oh, yeah. It was nominated to seven Oscar awards and so on and so forth. So that event, the movie, and the book put me on the map in America. Suddenly, I became an investigator. Everybody wanted to hire because I was gutsy. I will never give up. Nobody can pressure me. Nobody can do things. So I decided to open my business, my private investigating firm called Inter4, Inc. I opened the office myself and part-time secretary in the same address I'm still in today after so many years in Manhattan. The business grew through the years. I had offices in over 17. I had offices in over 70 countries. I became the world's leader in asset search and recovery. Going off to collect debt that everybody gave up on, debts that people thought that they gave up, can't be fined, but large debt. And my average collection on the cases I took on is 86 cents on a dollar. It's unheard of because if you collected at those days 2 cents, 4 cents, 5 cents, you were a hero. When I started the business, the business grew, and I want to make a statement now, that fraud is the largest commodity in America. Fraud is the largest commodity in America. What do you mean by that? Fraudsters make more money by defrauding people, stealing money. Embezzling money than any other Wall Street business that you can imagine. There are over a trillion dollars a year of money that's being stolen, embezzled. And people, primarily from banks, insurance companies, and the tragedy behind it is that it's greed. It's all about greed. Once they realize they lost their money, they're embarrassed, they lost the investment or the loan they gave out, they just write it off. So if you're a good fraudster, and what I will do for the first time in your show, I will teach your audience how to do a good fraud and don't get caught. Because there is a list of things that you need to do to get away with it. Okay. Number one, when you steal, steal big. Don't steal $2 million and $1 million. I'll catch you over breakfast. Don't go for the cash register, go for the vault. Do the millions, $100, $200, $1 billion. That makes sense now. And then move the money logistically, globally, to a few locations. Don't just take the money and open an account in the Cayman Islands and think you're safe or in Switzerland, you're safe. No. I'll catch you very quickly also. But you move the money in those several, you move the money first from the Cayman, you move the money to Dubai, then you move it to Singapore, then to Hong Kong. You move it enough geographical location and you are safe because law enforcement in America, the police, whoever will be assigned to go and investigate it, don't have the budgets and the manpower to travel to all those locations and they give it up. Five years later, all the accounts that came in were in the 50 to 100 million dollars. I didn't need to take the two million dollars. It was two million. What kind of people were hiring you? Banks, financial institutions, insurance companies and individuals who lost the money and they want to take, they're going to find the money. They need the money back. So, and this is internationally now. I get calls from law firms around the world who represent clients who have a debt and I was recommended to them and they all come and call me and say, could you take the account and go after that money? In the last 10 years, all the cases that we take on as a firm are in the billions per case. People steal billions of dollars and a lot of them got away with it. Because the name of the trick is once you move your money, file bankruptcy. Once the opponents know that you're in bankruptcy, they give up because they're not going to get it because the bankruptcy court has to find it first and they don't have the budget to do that. They don't have the manpower to do it. They assigned it to a trustee who doesn't have the clue how to go about it. So he confiscate your house. And maybe your car. And if you have a watch, he takes your watch away and that's the end of it. So those people get a penny on a dollar, three pennies on a dollar and that's it. And you hang along. You don't do anything stupid. You don't go and flash money and eat pizza for a year and don't just show off. People forget about it and you're free. Then you can enjoy your money. That is what the fraudsters are doing. Became my biggest business. Then came the time where the government came back, but that's a different part of the government and asked me to come and work for them on special assignments that I call the shadow government because it's not the official government anymore that comes and calls me, but the officials in the government. And as high level as possible, including people who are in the White House and say the assignments that we need, we would like you to do undertake that we need in our ability that we need to make sure that if anything goes wrong, we don't know you and you're crazy. You did it on your own. So these are high level White House officials, high level White House official and current and X and people who are not anymore there. but now have got together as a. looking for it's not a club it's not a cult but it's a team that has made a decision and they're all top top ex-officials who have retired but still think that they know what's good for america like dick cheney types like dick cheney types and indeed dick cheney was the one who brought me in originally dick cheney's the one who brought you in originally yeah to this club and that assignments those assignments are assignments that congress will never approve but they think that they know how to they know that it's good for america we need to do them because if you go to congress they will never approve it by the time they have you'll have a budget for that by the time they're going to allow you to do that years will pass mm-hmm they have no time to lose they wanted those operations be done now right so again i have taken on those some of those assignments in an agreement where i get paid they have no control of how i do it if i'm successful they'll read it in a paper and if i'm not successful who cares that's the agreement in a way and all those assignments were very successful thank god so why did dick cheney reach out to you um i was recommended to him i met him on several occasions uh privately um and he heard about my past he heard about he knew who i am so he decided that and he also saw my activities in the fraud department how i detect fraudsters russian oligarchs people who stole money all over and then hide it uh you know in in locations that you never heard of um they found a bank and put it there and uh i find about the money and i collect it so is this what he wanted you to do not the fraud part okay but the special other operations that are political parade operations okay like and surprise kill vanish type stuff i'm sorry like surprise kill vanish type stuff like uh some of them making people disappear you know make people disappear they're not americans not in america but all abroad in countries that america is in war with that is our enemies and um they decided that the way to do it is better than what the pentagon is doing right now yeah yeah there's something to be said about that absolutely about about surgical surgical strikes the only reason cutting throats in the night the only reason that i took on those assignments is because i personally believed in him also i i realized that if we're successful it will put such a dent on those enemy countries that it maybe will help america help us um quicker um to solve right a relationship if you can use intelligence and tactically insert people into certain locations right to take out the the head or the heart of the snake that's right versus you know insane blunt force trauma of dropping bombs and of dropping bombs and collateral damage and all that stuff that's the idea yeah the idea is i i believe that that's a way better way to do it no i believe in it also and when i looked at uh when i looked you know you're not always now looking back historically i slowly lose the belief that this always will solve a problem because when i took the munich assignment originally to get this terrorist in europe and i said we'll get rid of all those masterminds uh of terrorism and and and we did the munich and so on and that will solve the problem a week later they hired other people so that's why i didn't want to continue doing because there will always be people that israel now will want to get rid of which they're doing right in different way now they're bombing a whole building to kill one of them right and and they're not doing what we used to do in the past surgically one-on-one and no bystander i heard innocent bystanders i heard right so those were the kind of assignments that i liked because i believed in him i believed in him and not only assignments of uh of elimination of people but also verifying where locations are in iran that they hide nuclear uh uh paraphernalia and where are those scientists developing these things those bombs you cannot do it from the air you can take pictures from now until doomsday you take a picture of a mountain and you don't know what's in a mountain you need people on the ground to go in there to do all those things that america could not do officially because congress will not allow it right period so those became that became the business i got into in the last 25 30 years 25 years 28 years and i stayed away from the asset search and recovery my son took over that part of the building business in the office and he's doing that so one more question to the shadow government you're alluding to they're like essentially this group of people who have been a part of the u.s elite elite government white house military apparatus for a long time they still might be current publicly facing or they might be you know quote unquote we're tired however you want to say that that's right exactly essentially they are the behind the scenes doing whatever they please and the government that we see publicly facing is all a show all all a show they don't they don't know about it they don't they don't know about it they know about it when it's over when the assignment is over but they really don't know and they don't care because they cannot do it you see if i so this is not a democracy essentially no but they're doing a good job faking it they're doing a great job but you know if you look who they are if you look at the dick cheney uh bush senior some other people who were ex-cia people ex ex head of whatever presidents and so on who meet once or twice a month somewhere in a location somewhere and make decisions they run the real country in my opinion the official thing that we see in the news every day of the decisions that the pentagon is doing and the president are doing it right it's a lip service i mean it's it's something that you need it also but you but they're not they're not really doing what needs to be done i believe do you think that they can control who becomes president at the time i thought so at the time it's also until uh trump was elected that's when i didn't believe that they did the right if they were really behind putting presidents in a white house then they goofed in my opinion now so the first you're talking about 2016 you think that you don't believe that that group of shadow government people would have wanted trump in the white house is what you're saying i think they probably thought it's a cute idea to have somebody who is really from the outside right who speaks well the public loves him you have a lot of followers right maybe he's a guy who will sit there and really won't will not do any harm he will be the run it's it's going to be a show it's going to be a like a a show a funny show you have a funny president sitting there making jokes and there won't be a dull moment it won't be a dull moment so we can do our work quietly behind the scene and nobody will bother us he will occupy the media and we'll be behind the scene around america and do what needs to be done now i'm not familiar with the entire group there are current people who are maybe now in high position also part of that group but the people i met were the highest of the highest wow jeremy george bush senior yes yes what was that like um there were professionals professionals okay to my liking okay i mean i mean they were they dressed well they behaved like a president he I mean, I don't have to agree with everything he said. or did and so on but you want to see somebody who is honest and serious he would not defraud anybody he would not take anybody's money i mean he had i'm looking forward um was different cheney was different yeah cheney was different cheney was cheney you know i mean uh he shot his friend and he uh right away with it you know he was he was but sharp as you can imagine very very experienced with international events so they were a very very it was an honor to be part of that meeting when they were there you know i look back where i'm coming from it's like let me ask you a question let me ask you this compared to then when cheney brought you in to do some of these operations for them and compared to where we are now i don't know how much connection you still have to this group but do you think they're gaining more power or do you think it's the same do you think it's less the same okay it's the same power different people some of the old ones are still there but i don't see them so often they're new ones um i have less respect to the new ones than i had for the old ones but maybe it's just because of me and my relationship because how they were carrying themselves right in a meeting and what they were saying and how they were saying and they were really careful they really really thought it through every assignment and why we would need it and why it should be done it's not what you see on tv today when unfortunately our president every day says something else right i mean and then he goes to europe and he's embarrassing america and embarrassing himself and he's going out against nato i mean we're too busy now fighting the wrong wars internally versus the problems we have legitimately abroad we have issues with russia china north korea iran that need to we need we need a different team professional team with experience dealing with those problems and we don't have the shadow government is a better government right now than them is the shadow government a monolith or are there different factions of the shadow government different with different no agendas no no no it's one group with one whether they have different ideas or different agendas among themselves i don't know i mean i'm not really part of all the meetings i'm just brought in when i'm getting the assignment so i meet them um but the way it's been done and carried carried away is is amazing most 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you purchase they're going to ask where you heard about them and please support our show and tell them we sent you you just mentioned china russia iran when it comes to external like other countries like adversaries or quote-unquote allies who do they think and and who do you think are the biggest threats to the united states from this from from the shadow government's perspective we'll start with that see the shadow government is for example let's take the situation today the current situation that we are in with this type of war that we're involved in yeah the iran war shadow government's war is a war against iran and they refuse to do it they realize that this is something that you don't start if you don't know how you finish it and how you get out of it right and iran is not just an enemy who's going to just fall apart in five minutes they realize that this is something that you don't start if you don't know how you finish it and how you get out of it right and iran is not just an enemy who's going to just fall apart in five minutes and they're not going to get out of it fall apart in five minutes and you can have a victory and it was netanyahu's dream for as long as he was a prime minister even before to punish iran for something that i don't know but he wanted to he was convinced that if iran get a nuclear bomb they will use it against israel that was his thought whether it's true or not we don't know um personally i don't believe that they would even if they had one they would have used it against israel right because israel is a nuclear country and has many more bombs than the one bomb that they can develop in iran and they would destroy iran that's the end so yeah it doesn't seem just from recent history you know going back to when trump bombed solomani oh yeah that they're they're uh an unhinged unreasonable they're not they're smart right smarter than what the media is trying to do is they're trying to play the game and portray them here right and the media is playing the game also and portray them as like uh you know peasants who don't even know how to read and write and so on no because when we killed solomani they literally did nothing nothing because it's all calculated they realized we can replace our money we don't want to create a big war and the shadow government convinced that netanyahu which is true he said oh i found a president finally who will do it he flew to new york and met with trump several times and convinced him to start this war yeah now it's kind of funny why didn't why didn't um why did they both need a war they both personally have some problems personal problems netanyahu has his own legal issues that if his court case is going to seem light in israel and be finished he's going to be in jail for embezzlement for for for for taking a lot of money and and doing a lot of things and his life depend on the unrest right now in the middle east that is constantly he has to stop the trial he can't appear because he's busy with the war right and and the trial is now how many years and and not going anywhere and trump has his own issues internally with lewinsky then i'm sorry it was uh and so on so they both needed a war and something big that would preoccupy the media and the public they got together and they got it now they're both stuck with it they're hard to stop it which was predicted before and the federal the shadow government was warning against it was trying behind the scene to convince the right people in the government in the various in congress and senate don't allow it to happen don't allow to have a war don't push but it was too late too late because trump apparently is so convincing to his followers that whatever he touches will be a miracle and solve things and now everybody's facing the truth that he really doesn't have the answers he doesn't know how to stop it you're same with netanyahu from your perspective how much of a threat do you think iran is united states to the united states zero we're so far away from the united states from iran that if we wouldn't have started the war and the uh straight of our moves would be open we had no real war with iran we had no war with iran they were not a threat to the united states and what do you make of all the straight to israel yes they had hezbollah they had hamas they had i mean they're financing they're instigating those those other groups to against israel so israel had a netanyahu had a better reason why he needed something to happen there then then uh trump right but trump went along with it now the the narrative has changed in the united states government about the iran war they first said it was regime change now it's like they can't have a nuke and the goal post keeps keeps moving and at one point i think even marco rubio said on live tv that we had to to do it because israel struck first and we knew that they were going to retaliate so we had to step in and help and then they came back and like they walked it back later so of course it was it's all the the narrative they're completely fucking up the narrative but like how realistic we know we've seen the videos of netanyahu pounding the drums about oh my god they're one week away they're one week away since the 90s he is now it's my opinion but i'm gonna say it's my opinion netanyahu is more danger than trump because he's smarter than trump netanyahu is a smart shrewd individual mit graduate a very shrewd and experienced demagogue trump is not not an education not in in in understanding of middle east affairs if you have asked trump where is iran on the map before he started i'm not sure he would have known where it is he would i mean that's funny yeah and netanyahu took advantage of it i mean it's it's it's where i'm not saying something that it's not so obvious it's obvious right it's so obvious that that's the truth and it's unfortunately the truth because it's backfiring on everything that we believe in the relationship of america and israel is ruined anti-semitism is growing worldwide because of all those moves and all those things that i never thought i will see in my lifetime are now happening in in a very short time so um i had john karyaku on the podcast recently and he is uh he was cia operations and and analysts on counterterrorism yeah i know i know yeah for many years and he he whistle blew on the torture program went to prison for a couple years came out and he was like i don't know what to do with him he came out wrote a bunch of books now he's super popular yeah um he was telling me that there was an something called a i believe it was called a national intelligence assessment on iran two of them over the last 15 years and he said what happens there is the head of all what is it 17 or 18 uh intelligence agencies inside the united states the head of each one of those 18 intelligence agencies they go to their agency they said give me a full assessment on what you believe does iran have a nuclear program or no yes and all each one of the agencies did the reports gave it to the to the top the head of the agency the head of each agency came to a round table and he said it was unanimous between all of them that they did not believe they had a nuclear program in iran exactly they had i can tell you because i studied it myself i one of my operations is studying uh um iran's nuclear capabilities and who's behind it and who is currently pushing it and where is it being pushed and so on so far like every country who is in a war and they thought that they're in war with israel and they had israel has nuclear officially we all know that right they admitted on it they decided at one point it would be good to have one too but they were years away from developing seriously they started developing capabilities and equipment and centrifuges and so on so far but they were not a threat allegedly now by the time you have a bomb you also need something to carry the bomb to wherever you target the bomb right an icbm or something you need yeah you need icbms you need missile you need there's a lot going on and the more components that you rely on and need to make it happen you open up to intelligence and people know you're getting closer because now you have the missile now you have the other part and so on so far so if you took all those parts that are needed for a crude bomb one bomb to send to israel they were far away from it they were working on those little things but they were not close do you believe the however how they say that um who was the who was the leader of iran that they killed like day one um i forgot i can't remember his name anyways he was like the the head religious leader of the country yeah they killed him instantly or him in his part of his family a bunch of his family members died and the story is that he had some sort of a religious declaration that it was it was part of their their religious whatever you call it their commandments to not create a nuke yes you believe that yes okay yeah not to use do you not to create and not to use not to create and not to use because that he he saw it even he how crazy he was and religious fanatic was realize that that is something that will be the end of iran that it iran will not survive standing one bomb and throw it on israel and get away with it right it would be suicide right that's right even he knew that but when they lecture when they talk when they preach to their followers they have to be tough oh yeah we're gonna have we're gonna have bumps coming up and we're gonna throw them all over and so on so forth listen trump is saying things on a daily basis that he cannot follow up on right that he cannot make happen at all the old leaders are doing it and nathaniel was a master of creating a story about why we need to attack iran immediately and the reason immediately was his trial was getting developed and developed and so on and he wanted to be there his life dream was to make an attack on iran and he wanted it to have you know if the trial is over he's gone that's it and whoever going to to to become the new prime minister will not attack iran and and and crazy stuff about nuclear he knew that so there were two people who had personal issues personal agenda who got together and the war happens and now i don't know how we're going to get out of it hmm how much influence do you think you know yahoo or the israeli government or israeli billionaires have over americans politicians in particular it's not israeli government well there's so yeah few people in the government who would say yes to anything that netanyahu says as trump has his own cronies in a government who who will echo him and copy him and so on nobody will dare saying to him hey are you crazy this is not a good idea no one no one today in the white house would dare to come to a meeting and tell the mr president you're wrong this is not to be we don't think you should do that so same thing in israel with netanyahu so it's netanyahu and it's actually netanyahu who makes all the decisions and he is the one who controls trump period period how how does he control trump do you think well he got he got trump to join this war and now he's compromised now now trump needs netanyahu to maybe help him finish this war because he doesn't know how to do it not militarily militarily you can bomb iran from now until doomsday it's not they don't care if millions of people are dying the regime over there will not doesn't care if million people will die for the cause of of this war well it's disrupting the whole world economy not to our favor and they're bombing our allies and we can't even protect our own allies you got it it's slowly we're going to lose some some so as we just lost yesterday too oh the day before yesterday i mean we're going to lose more people it's a war eventually we're going to use more so both of them are stuck now even netanyahu has admitted in to people that i know who are close and friends that he doesn't think he made the right choice by netanyahu yeah said to but he would never officially admit it he can't he can't he can't it's the ego sickness of both netanyahu and trump so why is trump the in your opinion you know from we got from trump who we could play we could run tape of trump from now till next friday saying how stupid a middle east war another forever middle east war would be or another war with iran he's tweeted against obama biden all these presidents oh yeah saying how stupid and weak they were and like watch it's going to prove how weak they are when they try to invade iran and now he's doing a complete 180 why do you think he's the first president to do this i have no idea it's because of him his personality how was netanyahu able to convince him to do it very easy very easy he you read trump's book as we say he read his book he knows how he operates he knows his he needs to be flattered ego he knows that he has to play on his ego and if he comes into the White House and tells the president listen you're gonna be the hero you and us we're gonna bomb the shit out of Iran for two three days we're gonna change the regime the people are gonna come out and demonstrate and take over and there's gonna be a place in heaven you're gonna be there later on building the whole place up you're gonna have Trump Towers all over Tehran you're gonna have golf courses all over the region this is going to be you you're gonna have you're gonna get the Nobel Prize just for that that was music to Trump's ear and we all know that whoever flatters him today gets his ear no one around him in the White House thought it was a great idea even his vice president said I don't think we should do it but then he was afraid to continue in pushing not to do that and he said well you know I that's my opinion but if you decide you want to do it mr. president I will I will I will I hear you I hear you and that way I know how that that's what Netanyahu figured out quickly after visiting with Trump a few times I need to flatter him I need to build him up and he will come and do the job once he starts he cannot stop you see Netanyahu even said we we need to get America to throw the first bomb once they throw the first bomb they cannot stop I hear you and I agree with you he likes to be buttered up but I don't think that's enough to get him to do that to do what to do a war with Iran you don't think that that was enough I don't I don't know if I believe that that is enough to convince him to do that to sell him this idea it's going to be great you're going to save America you're going to go down in history then I that's the first time that I will tell you you're wrong you're absolutely wrong and I'll tell you why because Netanyahu is not just sitting there and say oh you're going to be great and so on Netanyahu is shrewd he brings in Maps he brings in photos he brings in stuff that that Mossad put together for him paraphernalia to show him you see that little Shadow over there that's where the stuff is if we need to get in there and Trump what does he know he doesn't he doesn't call the head of the CIA and his intelligence advisors and say come guys uh look at the map what do you think he never does it he never asked anyone in the White House for opinion it's his decisions and when Netanyahu is a convincing person oh I'm telling you this guy is a mega convincing phenomena right when he comes in and he start work to start working on you you'll do anything he tells you because he's playing you and looking at your eyes constantly talking and looking and see what else is happening are you are you are you convinced Juval there's no leverage do you believe what's the leverage here what's this invisible where's the invisible hand that we're not seeing okay the invisible hand in is that he also has uh Netanyahu also had Epstein in his pocket he Epson and Netanyahu worked together Epstein was an a Mossad spy in certain degrees and I I know because I wrote the book about it I don't Max which is part of what we're going to talk maybe about so um he had enough let's let's leave it by saying by me saying he has enough Blackmail material on Trump that he hadn't he didn't need to use but he has it if he used it regarding Epstein and the whole Epstein idea okay so let's rewind and explain to the audience how you originally met Ghislaine Maxwell okay I um I had an office in New York in London I had offices all over the world for my business for the Interfor business for my private investigating firm at one point I had a front store an antique store in the middle of London that was my office and the store was a pretext of some stuff that we were involved in oh wow and I was like selling antiques but I was not selling the antiques right um and I had real unbelievable antiques that I got uh by the way I wish I sold them um the reason I needed the the antique store is because when you have an antique store you have a warehouse a big warehouse to keep the merchandise until you bring them to the store right right and in that warehouse we kept a lot of stuff in concealed a part a part a concealed components of the antiques furniture drawers that nobody knew existed and there was stuff in it and so on and so forth so I'm sitting in my office in the showroom and I'm thinking about doing some operations suddenly I look in a young attractive very attractive girl walks into start looking around the antique and I realize she's not really interested in the antique but she's just walking around pretending she's interested then she approached me and she said um can I talk to you privately please I said yes and I Stone, the store was downstairs and my apartment was upstairs. Apartment and office was upstairs on the second floor. So I go up with her to the second floor and she says, Mr. Aviv, I know who you are. I know about your background. I would like to hire you. And I said, who are you? She says, I'm Ghislaine Maxwell. You know my father, Mr. Maxwell. He told me all about you. He told you he knows all about you from his day in Mossad. That was her words. I said, well, what would you like me to do for you? I'm not doing anything else but selling antiques. She said, I would like to hire you as an investigator. I would like you to investigate who killed my father. And as you know, it's in the press, my father embezzled over $650 million of the pension funds of all the publications that my father owned in England and in the U.S. He was the biggest media tycoon in Europe at the time, rivaled to the Fox News. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Murdoch. Murdoch, yeah. The biggest rival of Murdoch. They were both rivals. And he was on his yacht in the Mediterranean. The story was that he had a heart attack and fell off board and drowned. While taking a leak off the side of the yacht, right? That's right. Which we'll get to. That was his nightly routine. Routines. So he said, I'd like to find the money, where the money is, because I need to return it to the pension, the pensioneers who lost everything. And I need to find out who killed my father. I said, well, it's the first time that I understand that your father, now that you're claiming that he was killed. But I'm really not in a business anymore. I don't, I'm not an investigator anymore. She said, well, I'm going to leave you my card. And I know that you are going to want to do this case. Why don't you study that idea and call me in a week and tell me whether you take on the case or not? And she leaves. I looked at the case. Why did you tell her that? I'm sorry? Why did you tell her that you don't do it anymore? Yeah, because I didn't want to get involved in a political, I realize it's politics. I see. And what happened? What happened to him? And I wasn't sure and so on. So I wanted just to gain time. And I said to her before she left, I'm sorry, I said to her before she left, if I take, if I take the investigation, I want you to know, I will need two, three weeks to study it on my own before I even accept it or not. If I decide that I cannot help you, because there's nothing there to find. I don't want to take any money from you. I don't want to work for you. I will only take it if I can bring value to the table. If I know that I can really collect some money for you, or find out who killed your father, I'll take on this case. And off she went. I called my office, my research department, and we have I have one of the largest research department in the industry. We're subscribed to 1000s of databases worldwide, and a lot of them connected to law enforcement agencies and so on. And I said, Do you homework about We'll be right back. what happened to him and tell me what's in public domain what was written about and so right because the press all over the world was that was a topic of the day as we say in the u.s and europe and so on 1991 was it and he came back their team came back and said to me well this is what we found his body was found 16 miles away from the boat he fell into the water there was current a lot of current strong current in the mediterranean at the time and his body was surfing somewhere about 16 miles from the boat that's my number one the structure of the boat is such his bedroom was on the top which the boat looks like a small pyramid can you find a picture of the lady gillane yacht and on top of it even if you had a heart attack and you were standing at the rail on the top part of it where the bedroom is if you fell you only would fall into the lower level and then there's another level before you reach the water there is no way you can die that's not it no oh that's a dancing hand why why what the uh lady galane far right top right there okay uh that's the boat right that's the boat but it's the angle is not we need a side angle find another another uh good angle of it is this this is the the make it's the same model yeah that's the same boat that's okay okay if you go up to the top the top top level you can see that you don't see it from here also the boat the top level is narrower than the other tops downstairs right it gets wider towards the bottom of it yeah so if you fell from the top you don't fall into the water you fall into the lower level and then the two more levels before you reach the water and so i always thought the story was he was standing on the transom on the back of the boat on the bottom level pissing off of it no no no he wasn't in his bed he never went down there he was up in his bed in his bed in his bedroom yes yes yes the plot thickens yes so when i saw that i saw the picture not that but similar picture and i said he didn't fall off he had been pushed that one yeah yeah he has been pushed off you see it's on the top yeah okay so then we found out that the banks that he bought the money from prior to the embezzlement and so on were chasing him he owed millions of dollars because he bought publications for a lot of money that didn't make money he was an egomaniac who wanted to have an empire of publications so he would pay for publications that nobody wanted and nobody cared about right millions of dollars and then lost money and all the banks money right so he was under investment so he was under investment and he had to come to court to testify because he was sued by the government for embezzlement and by the u.s government and by the british government because there were both pension funds in america and pension funds in england that he stole the money from and he was about to come to testify in the u.s and in england had to come to court to testify so one of the theory was that he committed he didn't want to take on those trials he knew he's not going to win and his ego wouldn't allow him to even tell the truth about it so i realized that indeed there's a story that hasn't been told here then i read the news that what happened to him his body was found was whisked to the canarian island and he was found in the canary island and he was found in the canary island no autopsy was made in the canary island and his government of israel came and picked him up and flew him to israel right away the body no autopsy was made in israel because his wife sued for the autopsy and never got it oh wow and the body was buried in jerusalem in the most holiest the mount of olives right and mount of olives it's a cemetery that only presidents and and and then heads of uh mossad or whatever are buried no foreigner would be buried there right so i said to myself what did he uh do to israel to earn him a to whisk him right away from without an autopsy and burying him over there then there were press releases about the funeral every leading member of the israeli government going back a hundred years if they're still alive came to the funeral wow all the heads of mossad and everyone there were never so many dignities at one point in one place which is against security uh for a funeral for somebody nobody knows about what did he do for israel all he all we knew he was all he owned two israeli small newspapers that nobody ever read and a soccer team that was playing in the fourth league the fifth league and whatever so that was his officially what he's done for israel there must be a story behind it so i said i'm going to take it on i'm now i'm curious and interested in it so i called her back to the office and i said i'll take it on she said i know you will i said to her but i have two questions for you one uh when i was did do the research when we did the research i there was a lot of fingerprints that were alike that i looked at what he was doing financially and how he was presumably hiding his money that he stole and so on i said the fingerprints as an investigator now as a financial investigator shows me that he was using somebody else as an expert to hide money that to help him he didn't have the knowledge to do right what he did and the fingerprints that look most like somebody that i have investigated in the past that have used the same type of mechanism to hide the money was epstein and i said to myself would be curious if they both work together so you knew about epstein jeffrey epstein before robert maxwell was dead i investigated him on behalf of a client a client yes a financial client who loaned him who laundered the Epstein loaned his money. Laundered his money. Laundered his money. And then when he came to ask for some of the money, Epstein told him, you know, I don't know you. I don't know. You never gave me money. So Epstein stole it from him. Yeah. So he decided. What year roughly was this? Early 80s, mid 80s? 80s. Wow. So now I said, aha, bingo. I want this case. So I said to her, blank, I looked at her face and I said, tell me, did your father ever worked with Epstein in New York? And she got red in her face. I mean, she or Charlotte. I said, what's the matter? She said, well, yes, my father worked with Epstein. I don't want you to investigate that. That is one area I don't want you to look into. And this is not what I'm hiring you to. And she said, there's also another reason why I don't want you to do that. And I said, what is that? She said, well, I have a personal relationship with Epstein. We have a relationship. I said, say no more. Now I understand. It's no problem. You just admitted what I needed to know. And I took on the case and did the investigation. And wrote a book about it called Manx. So you had met Robert Maxwell. I met him. And then I met his family. I met his butler. I met the crew of the boat. And they allowed me to go and inspect the boat. That was part of the arrangement I had with Galen. You make arrangements for me before the boat has been sold. That I won't be, I don't, will have an access to the boat. I want to go and examine the boat, his bedroom and so on. But you met, but you, how long before he died, did you meet him? How did you meet him? Oh, two, three years before. What were, what was that about? What'd you guys, what were you guys doing? Um, I met him, I met him through a client who was trying, he bought a newspaper for a client, my client, and never paid him for the newspaper. So I was supposed to go and meet with Maxwell and say, listen, he is in, he's desperate for the money, his wife is sick. Uh, could you pay him? And so just to negotiate a settlement before we go after him. So I met him and he was charming. be uncharming we be he took me out to dinner and i met him two three times after it for dinners too and i met him in new york when he came to new york so we became buddies for a while maxwell weren't friends but and he paid the guy little money didn't pay him for the newspaper send him some money just because i really begged him to do that it's the right thing to do and i jokingly said you can you can defraud other people but not this poor guy this is a small timer you do the big ones leave him alone wow and he was laughing he had humor he had humor he had chutzpah oh he had mega chutzpah then i found out when i investigated that he was a agent he worked for five you learned this after he died after he died after he died yeah he worked as an official agent in a way and of five intelligence agencies the mossad mi6 uh cia kgb the biggest one and the german uh intelligence oh wow yes now none of them knew of each other none of them accepted later on much later i found that mossad knew what he was playing and they used him to send false information to the other agencies because he became a tool he was so good at what he was doing it's beyond because he was a charmer he was he could charm your pants off i mean it's beyond beyond that's very interesting because that's what a lot of people say about jeffrey epstein as well and they met they were a match for heaven they both became the most sophisticated money launderers at the time for individuals who needed to hide money from ex-wives from tax taxes from the tax authorities from anything they laundered money from ex-wives from tax from the tax authorities from anything they laundered money for african leaders for european leaders for from businesses on wall street uh anybody who had the rule of thumb was you needed to hire to launder 50 million and up they wouldn't take cases more than 50 million and people were lining up for them to do it how did epstein lured a lot of those people before the money situation with girls he trafficked girls for them and you know if you look back there were all the people that we know that i know that were clients of his the old older famous very famous people who well if their life depend on it they couldn't go to bed with a young girl because no young girl will go to bed with them right but epstein made it happen so that was an incentive an additional incentive for them to meet with epstein that's how he lured them in with the girls and then he took their money as i've gotten older i've become a lot more selective of the things i put in my body every day i'm very active and i do lots of stuff outside in this hot florida heat i take creatine every single day because it helps me with strength recovery and brain performance when it matters most and that's why momentous has created signature spec creatine and i've been loving it it's manufactured in a pharmaceutical facility using reverse osmosis water then verified through an 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trump one evening in one of those really that early and he realized who she is and who her father is i'm talking about epstein yeah and he started quartering courted courting her now she was too old for him but he gave the intention he gave us the idea that he maybe wants to marry her and she fell for it she really fell for it and then it really became a much stronger relationship and she became stronger after her father died she needed like a father type somebody to to replace her father so that relationship grew during all those events and that's where trump was on the scene also so those were the days of the big parties with girls and the big money laundering days and all of them were involved in it and that's where trump was on the scene so that relationship grew during all those events and that's where trump was on the scene also so those were the days of the big money laundering days and all of them were involved in it so that relationship grew during all those events so i have so many so many questions bouncing around in my head right now i'm sure um so what was your official conclusion of did you already say this of how robert was killed oh no um i know how he was killed because i uh i know how it was i know who killed him i'm assuming it was the masad yeah um yeah he was killed because he uh did an operation well i said it in a book so i can talk about it now the russian regime the communist party realized at one point that their days are numbered the russian russia the communism will not succeed gobert will come was rising and so on and they made a decision the russian communist party at the time which was headed by the kgb in a way we need to make sure that if we need to go and disappear for a while and go into exile and leave russia we were forced by the public to leave russia we need to have enough funding one day to come back because they looked historically any leader who left the country because he was forced to leave never could come back because they never had enough money to come back right the shah of iran couldn't come back because he lost his money and fortune and so on and they saw that they decided they are going to move the entire gold treasure of russia and place it somewhere offshore somewhere in the world for them to use to come back later on and they decided to move the entire gold treasure of russia and place it somewhere offshore somewhere in the world for them to use to come back later on they need wow you're not talking about some little suitcase you're talking about boats and boats and planes full of gold that needed to be placed somewhere there's no banks that will take that kind of a goal that they have no facilities to hold it it's bigger than fort knox russia had trillions and trillions and trillions of that worth of gold it was known it was the united nation every every year did statistics about gold of every country and they were number one always where do they who is going to move it out and where they're going to put it maxwell he is the guy who's going to help them they made a decision because he he was so close to them and he he was one of them he was one of the spies russian spy he came and said of course i can help you guys you are the one who is going to help you guys you are the one who is going to allow me i will find a place to keep it and the best place to keep it in israel israel is a nuclear country nobody will come and take it from them most of the members of the knesset israeli parliament israeli originally came from poland and russia and you guys russia you have a collateral that you keep you have the jewish population in russia that wants to immigrate to israel you have them hostage you don't let them go as long as you keep those children in russia you have a good you have a good bargaining point with israel to get your gold back israel will never they'll have to give it back to you so for seven or eight months boats for going from odessa to Haifa was moving this gold to Israel and it was placed in a place in Israel that is secure and what he did wrong he was so desperate Maxwell using his boats using he hired the boats he hired the planes that took it I interviewed the captains of all I mean I did really I did I have the whole investigation I knew when the dates the times and so I had it and he couldn't resist because he was so desperate to money he started dipping into the shipments the boat would stop well during the move from Odessa to Tel Aviv in a Mediterranean they would stop another boat would come in he would unload some gold and take it for himself and then he starts selling the gold in Switzerland to banks and financial institutions and at the time when he did that the gold prices went down dramatically because the market was flooded with gold and I all documented all of it the dates and time and so on that you can see exactly one and now the gold was there it was safe and so on and the Berlin Wall fell and Communist Party was over Gorbachev took over and the day the Berlin Wall fell all the Jews starting immigrating out of Russia the collateral was gone dramatically it's they had no very few Jews stayed there so now they stuck the new government knew the new government in Russia knew the gold is in Israel but we cannot talk about it because we now are asking for major loans from the world's banks from the IMF from everybody and as a collateralist for the loans we are pledging the gold that we don't have right it's supposed to be secret yeah if they will find out the banks they will not loan us money right so they it was in their interest now to keep the secret it was Israel's interest to keep the secret that they have the gold and and Maxwell kept his secret because he got money out of it right but then he got money he owed more money he got desperate and at one point he joined a party in Morocco a birthday party that was done very famous a birthday party yeah he orchestrated he put it together a birthday party for um um Hurst um Randolph first I think under first and at that party he invited Elizabeth Taylor as his guest she attended and they did it in in Morocco in a big tent and everyone he has to be dressed like Arab Sheiks and he came in dressed like an Arab Sheik and they're all there were belly dancers and so on so far and now he's sitting there and getting drunk as you did in the end very much and sitting next to him unbehoofed to him with the head of the most modern you in Morocco who was invited to the party also and Maxwell was not aware no he didn't know him he didn't know he wasn't aware of it and he started talking to him he knew that he was an Israeli by the accent he said oh he's used for Ellie said by the way I want you to know Israel is now the richest country in the world I made Israel the richest country in the world man the guy said he didn't know about it I don't know I didn't know it and he had him sat in Morocco it's just the the opposite sure so when he went home that night he called Israel and said listen this guy is saying that uh the Russian gold he he made Israel rich it's in Israel his first alarm went up this guy's blubbering now uncontrollable he's drunk he's saying things and the rest is history that's crazy yeah well I can say all of it because in my book that was published my book is Max it was published was became a bestseller and um and they did that gold still in Israel today I don't know maybe let's pause I have to go to the bathroom okay and I gotta think through this this is this isn't so much information all right uh I'm gonna go to the bathroom we'll be right back correction the birthday party that you went to was not William Randolph Hearst it was Malcolm Forbes yes right yes um who was the creator of Forbes magazine I'm assuming of course yes right so at any point did you ever rub shoulders with or meet Epstein yes really I met him once or twice for a long period one for dinner and then I met and then I met with him several times just on the street I saw him hey how are you and so on yeah no we were never friends or I never I wasn't considering him a friend right I say that what was like the context with you when you met him for a dinner was it just like a like a big dinner party or something no but he wanted to know about to see he knew about he heard about me being an investigator for asset search and recovery and how successful I am piercing through all kind of vehicles that people use to hide money offshore so he was fascinated by it and he wanted to ask me question about what do you mean how do you do your work when I said hey you know I jokingly I said you have to hire me right then you then I'll tell you how I do my work and jokingly which I'll never do because I know that he was a money launderer right so I didn't I didn't I didn't even fall into it so he initiated that the lunch the meeting in New York um and I shouldn't I don't know I should say that you know he was a teacher yeah at Dalton at Dalton my daughter went to Dalton why and she was a student at the time when he was there thank God he didn't no thank God for him otherwise I would kill him oh yeah never mind somebody else would kill him but I would kill him oh yeah yeah so it's small world small world that's wild yeah um okay so there's been lots of people who have reported in particular people who've worked for Epstein um who have reported specifically there's one case in um the investigative podcast that Tara Palmieri did on Epstein where she interviewed I believe it was a chef who worked in his Manhattan house yes known yes and she interviewed him and he was talking about you know like Jeffrey was always rich he was always you know had millions of dollars but in the 90s early 90s he became Mega Rich right where it went from like hundreds of millions to billions right and it's it is right the line is not it seems to line up with with the death of Robert Maxwell yeah so the speculation is did Epstein get a bunch of money from Maxwell when he died not only not only from him but both of them generated more from other people that Maxwell introduced see Maxwell was connected in Europe gay Lane was a celebrity in Europe that's how she brought in the uh King of England's brother into the picture and so on she was involved with all those guys and Epstein needed more famous people to be associated with so he can say well you know I make money I'm I'm I'm rich he Trump adopted the same story that he was doing I'm rich I have money I don't need anybody's money I can Finance my own stuff and Finance everything I don't need anybody's money when he was a teacher at Dalton he didn't have money he didn't have he didn't come from money he didn't have money he had decent money he wasn't poor but he didn't have millions of dollars he suddenly become a millionaire when Galen and Maxwell became in came into his life right and so how did he did he get connected to the Rothschilds through Maxwell yeah yeah to all those people in Europe see if you if you um if you go if you go into the history of Maxwell he operated he had a he had the same type of operation that uh Epstein had in America he had in Hungary he had in Bulgaria he had uh because his parents came from from from Hungary in Bulgaria and this is where he came from originally right so um during the war um so he became a celebrity and you know he was a member of the parliament in England Maxwell Maxwell okay yeah right so he had all those contacts that Epstein didn't have that's they needed both and maxwell needed epstein because epson knew how to hide money he learned it now how did epstein learn how to hide money this is really by finding my biggest coup during the investigation there were there are three there were three lawyers in this country who became the most famous notorious asset protection lawyers there is a legal term asset protection you want to protect your assets from potential lawsuits from potential whatever so they became a person that you come in you give them your money they develop a vehicle legal vehicle to hired hide money open the bank accounts offshore wherever they develop this place and then hand you a turn key and say here this is the account we opened it for you the money is in it you own your own kid now what they didn't tell those individuals that they hired the money for them that they made arrangements with the banks that they hid the money in that they get a commission from the bank for bringing those big deposits so they got from the bank seven percent of all the monies that they brought in to the bank as a finder fee plus they got ten percent from you for hiding your money oh wow they're skimming from both sides yes they became trillionaires one the most notorious of them was in denver colorado there was one in oklahoma city and one in florida the top guy was the guy in colorado and i befriended him do we know his name of course i was a friend of it can we say it yeah barry engel okay barry engel was the he's dead now he died a few years ago uh barry engel was wrote books about asset protection the government the treasury the irs were after him he was the one who was the one who wrote to him for years to find out who are the names of the people that he helped hiding money for and so on he wrote the constitution of the uh well one of the islands uh hold on uh cook island cook cook island okay cook island is a place where people hide money okay that is known it's a small place there's no banks there there's no nothing there's an old lady sitting with a laptop on a beach and she is the bank and you go you have to go through her to find where the money where is this island on a map cook island is uh this one french polynesia no cook islands that's like in the middle of halfway between australia and south america yeah it's like on the dividing line of the pacific it's in the pacific okay cook island got it somewhere near tahiti yeah so he wrote their constitution and he designed it in such a way that he knew exactly how to hide money now the vehicle that he created to hide the money was in the cook island the banks were not there the money wasn't there the money was in switzerland in two banks that he had the relationship that he can get the kickback there is another layer of security you had to go through the old lady on the beach in cook island to find out the name of the account and where the account is and there which you couldn't and then you had to go to switzerland and pierce through all the swiss laws protection laws of banking laws in switzerland so those were impossible to do you needed to do to know which i found out later how to do it so i was the king why was i so famous for asset search and recovery because i had a message everyone who wanted to hire hide money over 10 15 20 50 million dollars ended with one of those three people who hide money asset protection money those lawyers the word of the world you have money you want to hide money go to very angry in colorado he'll hire i'll hire your money i'll do money and he claimed that it was done legitimately that's why the irs couldn't go after him ever he said i will open an account for you and you put the first money you put into the account is money that you earned and you pay taxes on in other words it's money that you pay taxes legitimate money that will open the account what you put into the account later in a different way ways is between you and the bank what he never told the people that even after they left him after they got the arrangement they got the key to the account and they left they thought that they he's not involved anymore he told him i'm not involved i opened a small account with the legitimate money irs money right and that's it he's still he's not involved anymore he was still getting kickbacks from the bank from all the monies that they put in after it also that was the whole thing even though he wasn't liable for it anymore so i became a very close friend of barry bank we became friends we went to dinners we were having because i said to him baby let's make a deal you tell me don't tell me where the money is just tell me names of people that you hide money and i will check and see if they owe money to somebody which are sure they are and then i know where where to find the money because i know where your two banks are and he was laughing ah it never he never gave me he never divulged anything he's a lawyer he's smart but we were all laughing about and you know he wrote books about it he was famous he was very famous barry engel barry engel in colorado then he was very famous he was very famous he was very famous i found out that epstein met barry engel and then i knew right away how the money was hiding how he hid money and so on because barry was the vendor who did it for epstein and taught epstein how to hide the money in through the came through the cook island wow okay so how did i become famous what i used to do without getting very involved i befriended his secretary i became so close to his secretary she's an old lady from brooklyn who worked for him in colorado and he treated her like and she hated him but she needed the job and so so we became friends so i had to deal with her anytime a new client came to me and said you know danny stole money from me and i need you to collect i will take danny's name i will call the secretary and say did this guy came to see barry is he a client of barry if she comes she goes a computer she comes back and say hey it's our client i know where the money is the only two banks yeah if she said no then i had to start working harder but i knew that she was a client of barry and i knew that she was not a client of barry and i knew that she was a client of barry and i knew that she was a client of barry and i knew that she was a client so that became a ritual and a funny thing in the office that we called barry secretary find out before we take the client on just to see if he if he is a client of barry right uh so epstein became very close to barry and learned from barry the cook island vehicle and some other vehicles that i knew about and so on that's how he started really hiding big money russian oligarchs monies famous people's money because he did such a good job nobody could trace it nobody could trace it except the cases that i took on and found out wow and collected barry didn't care that i collected money on a client because he got paid already and he got money from the bank coming in so you won't go get the money and i used to appear in banks in those banks in switzerland and they're being oh you again oh my god every time you walk into this bank we lose their deposit because i have all the paperwork i have all the direction i know how it was done so let me ask you this it seems you know you've laid out kind of like the the early genesis of epstein his connection connection with maxwell how he started making his money some of the financial connections and all that kind of stuff and you know some of the connections he had and how he was hiding money that all makes sense at what point does he start getting blackmail on people. And why is he getting blackmail? From day one. From day one. He was always afraid that he's going to lose Maxwell. He would lose some other big clients. He needed to make sure that he has on his own developed a vehicle to keep the client. And you believe he was doing this for his own purposes? Yeah. Okay. Yes. Well, eventually he bragged about it. So Mossad used it. Mossad wanted to have blackmail material on people that he developed, that he gave them on those people. He willingly just shared it with them. Yeah. What about CIA? I don't know of it. I don't think so because it was too close to him in America. He didn't want to deal with American government. He was afraid of it. He was afraid that they will – You know, I won't be surprised if you would come to me and say, "You know, there's some evidence that he did some stuff with the CIA." Mm-hmm. Maybe. I'm always open-minded to those type of things because I know the players. They're all doomed to do things. Yeah. But I don't know of. Well, the reason I ask is because obviously I'm sure you're aware in the early 2000s when he first got busted for soliciting underage prostitutes or whatever, Alex Acosta came out and said that he was told Epstein belonged to intelligence, and that's allegedly how he got his sweetheart deal that first time around, where he got the slap on the wrist and he was able to basically go in at night, leave all day and – Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all that stuff. So if he was working for Mossad, how the hell would Alex Acosta and who would tell Alex Acosta he belonged to intelligence? And why would Alex Acosta know anything about a Mossad connection? No. I'm sure that every – Every intelligence agency looked at him as a potential – If they can recruit him, if they can bring him in, he has information that they could use to blackmail other people. And I'm sure that the CIA – Listen, they're not stupid people. They're not all stupid people. Some of them are. But I'm just saying CIA did their homework, and they saw a potential here, and they saw maybe we should – We should get close to him and see what we can get from him and maybe put some screws on him and just don't go – Don't try to hurt his business, but just do a deal with him and get some information from him on certain people that we are interested in. Or maybe he offered that up as a bargaining chip. And maybe he offered it up. He saw how it worked with Israel. He said, "Oh, yeah, I'll give you that." But he got a deal for sure, and he didn't – Israel didn't influence anybody in a court. Israel didn't influence anybody in a court in Miami. Right, exactly, exactly. It had to be a local agency that somebody in this government that made the phone call and said, "Let him go." This episode sponsored by She's Birdie. You lock the hotel room door, then check it again, and maybe one more time, because even the nicest room can feel unfamiliar at night. Just attach it to the door frame, switch it on, and if someone opens the door, BirdieBox blasts a loud siren and flashing alarm to alert you and everyone nearby. Because the best part of travel isn't worrying, it's sleeping soundly. BirdieBox from She's Birdie, locking in peace of mind wherever you stay. Period. That's obvious. I don't know who did it, but I'm just saying to you, it had to be. And then why did Trump hire Acosta as his labor secretary the first time around? Well, why did he hire anybody who is around him right now? How the hell is Howard Lutnick still in every single photo with Donald Trump today, after he's blatantly been caught lying about who was Epstein's neighbor for years? I don't know. Next door neighbor. Please, yes. And the story, I went with my wife, I saw the bed, the massage bed, and I decided no. Never. Yeah. You never. And he's all over the files. I'm not going to say anything right now. How the hell? But one day I will talk about it. About him. About Lutnick? Yeah. Not right now. Seems like a very bad man. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, there's lots of witness testimonies too. Oh, you know, what I can tell you, which will be. Will be a bombshell very soon. Some of the girls that gave up on the hope that there will be justice done, they know who they went to bed with, they know who molested them, they know. They have put together a list of all those people, date, time, and pictures, because they took it from Epstein that was filming. Anytime somebody. Anytime somebody. One of those guys, those stupid people, came into Epstein's apartment to have sex with one of those girls, he was filming it. Yeah. There's literally photos of the cameras in the rooms. Yes, yes. Every room had a camera and so on and so forth. Those people fell for. Didn't realize, didn't care. Who knows? They cared or didn't care. They were so blinded by the girls. Yeah. So. I lost my thought. The girls are putting together a list. The girls have put a list with pictures. They put pictures on everything. And there will be a press conference. The timing is coming close. Yeah. But they're going to be willing to get up and say, Mr. Jones, Mr. Adam, he molested me, here's a picture. How did they get pictures? They took it from Epstein. How? I don't know. I don't know. Somebody cooperated in the house. They got smart later on. And they, before they left, they got some pictures. I don't know how they got it. Right. So the lawyers have it. Their lawyers have it. The girls have it. They have all that. But the timing is not right yet, according to them. They're looking for the right timing. That will tackle the government. That will be the end of this government. And people all over the world, I'm going to go in hiding because they're all going to be sued. They're all going to be their evidence and testimony of time, date and what was done to them by those people. So we saw this release of starting in December on like a Friday afternoon in December when they first dumped the first tranche of Epstein files out and then like immediately after Trump did the Venezuela. Operation. Yeah. And then I believe in January, the second tranche of files came out and then we immediately launched the Iran war. That's right. And there's nothing, no more wars to announce right now for the next tranche. Next tranche, they're done. They're gone. They're all gone. What's all gone? I'm sorry. All those government leaders that have been surviving this secret so far and so on, they're all going to be gone. So. That evidence, you know, we got a bunch of emails and stuff and there was lots of redactions. They said they were only going to redact the victims, but they redacted way more than just the victims. They redacted like big names of like sheiks and oil executives and all. Yes, yes, yes. It's very interesting. The people that they didn't redact and the people they did redact. If you really like read between the lines and look at it. But of course, like that's not the real evidence. The real evidence is on the hard drives because there's there's survivors, there's girls that were there that testified that he had rooms as big as this room right now that were filled with servers and computers and monitors that were recording all that footage that he had, not only on the island, but in New York, the Zora ranch, everywhere. On a plane, the plane was rigged, everywhere. Where's all that footage? I can't tell you. Really? Yeah. Can I guess? No, please don't. Not now. don't guess now so that's why i said the days let me ask you this the day the day the day it will come out is important it has to be the right time the right day let me ask you this i'm sorry to put a legendary massad assassin on the hot seat but if i was to guess do you think i would guess right probably that's why we shouldn't talk about it right now all right that's all i needed to know uh do you think it's possible epstein is still alive no i can assure you he's not no you can assure me he's not yeah what makes you believe that he's dead other than the fact because there's lots of people that poke holes and yeah they can say whatever they he's dead there was a body it was an autopsy of credible people he's dead i know where he's buried and and and he's buried and again it goes into the same question of what happened to the um information that was stored on the computers and where is it now so it's the same type of question how do you know he's dead i'm telling you he's dead period and you know for an absolute fact that he's absolute fact he's dead how do you think he died oh he was killed yes i can tell you he was killed it was arranged for somebody from the outside to go into his cell and kill him why wouldn't they just have that big jacked gorilla guy who like was a cop killer no kill him no no because he wouldn't do it he wouldn't do it he wouldn't do it and they didn't they needed it be done professionally need to be done professionally by somebody who is a professional assassin to come in do it and get away and that's it and that person doesn't is not doesn't live in america and is not an american anymore you know who that person is maybe you don't think it's possible that there was any way to extract him from that prison through like some secret no no no you know the story about those tunnels or those doors secret doors now this is an old building that they kept the notorious uh mafia people that if there was a secret door believe me they would have been whisked out of there by their own people uh no no no no no no this is all good stories that the media is seeking and somebody is out there selling it and the rumors are out there no this it's too obvious the man died so they had he had to die let me play the devil's advocate with you real quick um if i'm jeffrey epstein and i'm going through the shit i'm going through throughout the 2000s and up to 2019 fighting all this stuff um you know against the most powerful people in the world who obviously want me dead i'm gonna have some sort of a dead man switch meaning i'm gonna have some sort of situation set up where i have somebody who's disconnected from me on another on the opposite end of the country who has access to the blackmail that knows the second you see that i'm dead you release it and you want to let the people know that are threatening you that that's going to happen if they kill you yeah it's a good why wouldn't you have that why because that's the that's the biggest question that i have stupid epstein why didn't you create it and the answer my answer to that is i'm going to have to kill you it is he was so sure that he survived the first attempt of his arrest in miami got a slap on the hand that just it's a question of days that the powers wherever they are including the white house and some other places that they will make sure that he will they will find a way to release him and just send him out and and give him a probation or whatever or maybe even pardon him and so on there is a rumor and i stipulate a rumor that he was promised that he will be pardoned by the president by trump yeah and if it's true it was good enough for him because he believed that trump should pardon him and would pardon him that he doesn't have to do anything just stay there quiet for another few days and in the cell and the people who needed to make sure that he is silenced for sure knew about that potential arrangement between him and trump and said we have to go and kill him and that's what happened and then there was powers beyond the white house and trump and then all some other people their powers beyond that that had a lot have more to lose than beyond heads of state you got it you got it and when it all boils down it goes to the old old story of follow the money and it all has to do with money the power of money the greed and power of money the girls are just to occupy the media the whole the story is a paraphernalia was the girls with a paraphernalia to occupy and the media loves it it's everybody only talks about the girls which is a tragedy for the girls i i fully fully say that again and again that those girls need to get everything that they deserve to get to make it right of what has happened to them and no one should get away with what happened to them but it wasn't epstein alone it's so many other powerful people and they are not worried about the girls they're worried about the idea that their money laundering operation will be surfacing and as long as everybody's preoccupied with the girls nobody's talking about the money very seldomly people talk about the money and that's where the story is the money what do you make of there's the email that was in the files where Ghislaine emailed Trump or not Trump Ghislaine emailed Epstein and she said uh Trump is the dog who hasn't barked you see that one yeah yeah what'd you make of that well I mean they had a lot of conversations Ghislaine wanted to remind Epstein if you have any power that you claimed you had over Trump I need a pardon I need I need something to happen and you need to make it happen Ghislaine needs a pardon Ghislaine yeah Ghislaine is hoping to get a pardon from for him and leave the country at the time that that email was sent she was still you know she was still she was still she was still she was still she was still she was still Ghislaine needs a pardon Ghislaine yeah Ghislaine is hoping to get a pardon from for him and leave the country at the time that that email was sent she was still Ghislaine needs a pardon Ghislaine is hoping to get a pardon from for him and leave the country at the time that that email was sent she was still in custody she was she wasn't in custody yet was she she was she was of course in custody she was she wasn't in custody yet was she she was she was of course of course of course she knows she she knew where she's going she knows she's going to jail for a long time she knew that she was smart she was not stupid she was a smart woman very manipulative smart woman she knew what the odds were and she also knew what Epstein had as a blackmail material on all of those guys right of course she knew what Epstein had as a blackmail material on all of those guys right and she wanted to remind him and there were other emails where she reminded that he needs to take care of himself and create a he had that list right yes he had the list like a getaway list in case she hits the fan yeah I forgot about that yeah she reminded him again and again make sure that you have the insurance policy prepared for rainy days I mean she she she and he put it in case you said that yeah it it happened so many times so many times that I was going after fraudsters mega fraudsters who stole billions and billions of dollars and I met with them and I gave him an offer you pay the money back to my client I have a judgment against you you pay the money I let you go and I nobody needs to know that you made the arrangement and paid it back if you don't that will go to you you the press that we collected against you the IRS will come in and you know you start with the IRS you in jail for life right for tax evasion so none of them said you know what do I need a problem with the IRS I'll pay him some money and I always tell those people I'm not a pig I don't need all your money you owe my client $30 million give me 28 million write a check of $28 million I'll leave you $2 million for old age for the you know I'm not a pig I don't need all your money you owe my client $30 million write a check of $28 million I'll leave you $2 million for old age for the legitimate old agent right none of them said yes ever ever so what do you think is gonna happen to Ghislaine what will happen what do you what do you speculate will happen to her eventually I don't want to speculate because if i speculate and it happens then i knew about it in advance so i'm not i'm not going to talk about it are you optimistic for her for i mean it depends what your view is i don't want to see her go free i mean i think she needs to be yeah i think she needs to rot in jail yeah i agree that's what i think personally but what will happen is a different story why don't you think she's been killed yet good question because there was no need so far she's not quiet she's happy playing with little puppies in in this uh special jail and yeah and so on she and she really believes that she's going to be pardoned by trump she believes it she was promised by the attorney general to be yeah and one of the things that we were talking about last night was that she was going to be pardoned by trump she was going to be pardoned by the attorney general she was going to be pardoned by the attorney general she was going to be pardoned by the attorney general she was going to be pardoned by the attorney general last night on the last night on the topic of trump was you know there was the whole russia gate fiasco that happened during the 2016 election where um you know trump was accused of colluding with russia to essentially rig the 2016 election and then there was the whole you know that was all over the media everyone was talking about how trump was colluding with putin to steal the election trump was also campaigning on like a lot of things he was talking about like a lot of things he was talking about like he was talking about like a lot of things he was talking about like a detente with russia to actually create a friendship with the number two nuclear power in the world right and not paint them as the enemy anymore and um yeah and then there were the whole muller report happened and they concluded that there was no conspiracy well in the conclusion of that report they said there's no conspiracy or or or actual evidence that this ever happened and hillary was behind this and hillary was behind this it's not correct the muller report it's not correct the muller report concluded there was collusion it's just the opposite of what you just said that's what the conclusion was but the attorney general at the time took the report never let it come out on time and said in summary there was no evidence there was plenty evidence and if you watch the media right now lately watch the media right now lately watch the media right now lately what um the prosecutor uh what's his name what um the prosecutor uh what's his name what um the prosecutor uh what's his name who was entire trump is after who was entire trump is after who was entire trump is after um comey no uh um comey no uh um comey no uh not muller but uh not muller but uh not muller but uh i can't remember the prosecutor the guy i can't remember the prosecutor the guy i can't remember the prosecutor the guy who's investigated the special prosecutor who's investigated the special prosecutor who's investigated the special prosecutor oh i guess i can't remember oh i guess i can't remember oh i guess i can't remember the special prosecutor the special prosecutor the special prosecutor recently just in the news yeah steve will recently just in the news yeah steve will recently just in the news yeah steve will find it he investigated find it he investigated find it he investigated who investigated who who investigated who who investigated who the the trump uh uh the the trump uh uh the the trump uh uh stealing the paperwork and keeping stealing the paperwork and keeping stealing the paperwork and keeping keeping uh oh the files that he kept yeah keeping uh oh the files that he kept yeah keeping uh oh the files that he kept yeah and at mar-a-lago yeah and at mar-a-lago yeah and at mar-a-lago yeah jack smith jackspace yeah how can i jack smith jackspace yeah how can i jack smith jackspace yeah how can i forget he's a friend and i work with him forget he's a friend and i work with him forget he's a friend and i work with him okay okay okay so so so he so he collusion i have all the evidence and collusion i have all the evidence and collusion i have all the evidence and so on so on so on and and and i'm waiting for the time i'm waiting for the time i'm waiting for the time to to to get it into court get it into court get it into court and and and make it public make it public make it public okay so so i i was okay so so i i was okay so so i i was i was not aware that so ask i was not aware that so ask i was not aware that so ask ai or chachi bt or claude or something ai or chachi bt or claude or something ai or chachi bt or claude or something ask it what was the official conclusion ask it what was the official conclusion ask it what was the official conclusion of the muller report of the muller report of the muller report on rushagate because i i could have sworn that it was because i i could have sworn that it was because i i could have sworn that it was the actual conclusion of it was there the actual conclusion of it was there the actual conclusion of it was there was no conspiracy report was no conspiracy report was no conspiracy report i have the moral report i have the moral report i have the moral report no no no no no no because there was a whole story that because there was a whole story that because there was a whole story that came out i think matt taibi was one of came out i think matt taibi was one of came out i think matt taibi was one of the big people journalists behind this the big people journalists behind this the big people journalists behind this that hillary clinton had hired somebody that hillary clinton had hired somebody that hillary clinton had hired somebody to go out and there were rumors there to go out and there were rumors there to go out and there were rumors there were a lot of stories were a lot of stories were a lot of stories hillary had nothing to do with it hillary had nothing to do with it hillary had nothing to do with it at the time it was too late by the time at the time it was too late by the time at the time it was too late by the time she woke up and realized that she lost it she woke up and realized that she lost it she woke up and realized that she lost it lost the election it was too late to do lost the election it was too late to do lost the election it was too late to do anything anything and she couldn't go anything anything and she couldn't go and and say anything um to change and and say anything um to change and and say anything um to change the election at the time and and make the election at the time and and make the election at the time and and make trump look bad and so no no you know trump look bad and so no no you know trump look bad and so no no you know what's right is right what's wrong is what's right is right what's wrong is what's right is right what's wrong is wrong wrong wrong well i want to see i want i want to see well i want to see i want i want to see well i want i want to see what you came up with on this chat gpt steve what you came up with on this chat gpt steve what you came up with on this chat gpt steve do you get it do you get it do you get it uh okay so this is this is what i got uh okay so this is this is what i got uh okay so this is this is what i got the molo report concluded that the molo report concluded that the molo report concluded that investigators did not establish that investigators did not establish that investigators did not establish that members of the trump campaign conspired members of the trump campaign conspired members of the trump campaign conspired or coordinated with russia the russian or coordinated with russia the russian or coordinated with russia the russian government 2016 election interference government 2016 election interference government 2016 election interference activities activities activities however the report explicitly stated it however the report explicitly stated it however the report explicitly stated it did not exonerate the president did not exonerate the president did not exonerate the president particularly concerning allegations of particularly concerning allegations of particularly concerning allegations of obstruction of justice so the obstruction of justice so the obstruction of justice so the obstruction of justice is the is the obstruction of justice is the is the obstruction of justice is the is the files that he kept at mar-a-lago yes files that he kept at mar-a-lago yes files that he kept at mar-a-lago yes not only that no but you see what not only that no but you see what not only that no but you see what it says it says it says officially officially officially the investigation the investigation the investigation by the trump organization by the trump organization by the trump organization didn't show that they have done they didn't show that they have done they didn't show that they have done they did their own investigation of course did their own investigation of course did their own investigation of course and found that they had there was no and found that they had there was no and found that they had there was no collusion it was not the official collusion it was not the official collusion it was not the official investigation investigation investigation that found that found that found that there was no that there was no that there was no that there was no that there was no that there was no collusion between collusion between collusion between russia and russia and russia and and um and um and um and and and trump trump trump is the muller report not the official is the muller report not the official is the muller report not the official official investigation official investigation official investigation yes but it's not the one that you are yes but it's not the one that you are yes but it's not the one that you are looking in it here it's at the top looking in it here it's at the top looking in it here it's at the top doesn't it reference the muller report doesn't it reference the muller report doesn't it reference the muller report yeah but yeah but yeah but it concluded it's not no no no no no it concluded it's not no no no no no it concluded it's not no no no no no it can it can it can read carefully what you what what it says read carefully what you what what it says read carefully what you what what it says new york times go back steve what's the new york times go back steve what's the new york times go back steve what's the new york times article say up up up up new york times article say up up up up new york times article say up up up right there muller finds no trump russia right there muller finds no trump russia right there muller finds no trump russia conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy but click on that see what it says but but click on that see what it says but but click on that see what it says but but stops short of exonerating the but stops short of exonerating the but stops short of exonerating the president on obstruction here we go what president on obstruction here we go what president on obstruction here we go what is the obstruction story the is the obstruction story the is the obstruction story the obstruction is collusion with russia obstruction is collusion with russia obstruction is collusion with russia on the find out ask it exactly what it's on the find out ask it exactly what it's on the find out ask it exactly what it's referring to by the obstruction referring to by the obstruction mueller did not reach a prosecutional mueller did not reach a prosecutional mueller did not reach a prosecutional conclusion on whether trump obstructed conclusion on whether trump obstructed conclusion on whether trump obstructed justice because the justice department justice because the justice department justice because the justice department policy said policy said policy said a sitting president could not be a sitting president could not be a sitting president could not be indicted indicted indicted muller declined to make the ordinary muller declined to make the ordinary muller declined to make the ordinary charge charge charge or decline decision the report said we or decline decision the report said we or decline decision the report said we did right did right did right the report right what i'm trying to tell the report right what i'm trying to tell you is he couldn't come out with the right conclusion because he couldn't charge him because the laws wouldn't allow him to charge a sitting president but it doesn't mean i have the i have the i have the documents the exact as this says the exact conclusion was that the report did not conclude trump committed a crime yeah it did not officially exonerate him either so there's no evidence that he stole the election with russia there's no evidence also that he didn't do it because then they could not continue the investigation and publish it because it they couldn't use it against a sitting president that was the issue okay and if you talk about if you go to what's his name again just now the prosecutor yeah uh smith yeah if you go to smith's statement just a few days ago he came out and said i have all the evidence of the conclusion of the of trump's collusion with russia that was based on the muller report can you find that he took over the muller report and took it further what's the about what's the story with the smith guy what's his deal oh trump fired him fired him and accused him of of uh whatever i don't know that he's going to sue him because of his loss because of the situation with the mar-a-lago paperwork and so on so he's standing by right now but he has all the evidence he stayed he's now coming out again and again as i have all the evidence right okay and but my my i mean it's just hard to trust people like that no no no no no no no no not him vendettas against each other not him this is a good guy huh this is one of these guys who hired him it's a trump and the trump attorney general hired him did you find this he was brought in from europe you know he was a the top prosecutor at the hague i mean this this guy is a legend legend in his first name again smith last jack smith jack smith jack smith okay okay you go and study jack smith so you do believe that he did some sort of a deal with russia to steal the election yes russia told him you run you run to become a president we will make sure that you will be the president and You know, for them, was just an a situation as i told you last night every intelligence agency at the kgb almost like the old dream to groom somebody in enemy country that would one day be high enough in the government that have access to secrets and so on that they can then have no one in their life thought that they can develop a president of the country as a as a source and what did it cost them just money and and support and it worked worked for putin studied just the relationship between trump and putin yeah how did that relationship start it started when trump was bankrupt he needed money and he went to washington to russia met with putin and asked putin to loan him money and putin did loan him a few hundred billion dollars to start with when is this published july 16th so like three days ago four days ago jim jordan says the house says house weighing criminal referral of jack smith for allegedly lying to congress oh but jordan thank you please uh i couldn't find what he said but i did find this republicans allege smith lied under oath about obtaining texts from 44 lawmakers during trump probe scroll down to the first paragraph what is this publication you're on this is fox news it's fox news this is fox news yeah you can't really trust me i have this one from chuck grassley whoever that is same thing jack smith's investigative team secretly obtained text messages from 44 members of congress amid trump probe members on both sides of the aisle were swept up the investigation as smith's team broke investigative product broke investigative protocol raising constitutional concerns um okay they they obtained and reviewed text messages from 44 members of congress as part of the biden doj criminal investigation into trump evidence shows the investigators bypassed the required filter uh team review process violating investigative protocols and potentially infringing on constitutional guard rails well they had to do what they had to do to get the information i mean but they successfully got it that's why they went after them right they so they illegally they illegally stole text messages from sitting members of congress uh regarding what specifically what what were the text messages saying that was it was a part of the russia probe yeah the collusion um this is yet another grotesque example of the body administration biden administration's weaponization of the department of justice johnson said jack smith's team acted with impunity as they disregarded their own protocols to obtain access to the white house text messages including messages uh from 44 members of congress at this point no one should be shocked by jack smith's recklessness and blatant abuse of power they should be outraged but he got the stuff danny yeah but if you get the stuff maybe you do it illegally are you allowed to use in the court of law no that's what he's holding back he's now developing a way to use it legally by subpoenaing those people and say did you say those things or not very simple you can correct things so how the hell did russia sway the election they didn't by giving him enough finance to do to run he ran he was didn't he get like a hundred something million from mary and adelson that too that too he got a lot of money he see you forget one thing that when he ran when he came down the escalator the first time yeah i don't need anybody's money i'm rich i'm so rich that i don't need any money i will come and clean the house i will clean the day or whatever and doing all those things he was bankrupt at the time all his casinos in atlantic city were bankrupt he bankrupted he bankrupted his casinos that his father gave him his money to to open billions of dollars so now he needed money to run you need a lot of money to run to become a president right right correct and russia gave him the money to run but we have no evidence though there is evidence of it just didn't come out yet in the right vehicle but there is evidence of that and it will come out in due time who has the evidence you do me now so why did why did russia first of all how do you think russia gave him this money and how did they keep it a secret it's money that came through oligarchs who came in to buy real estate from him and gave him inflated numbers for each apartment that they bought from him that's how they loaned that money the best way to learn the money is real estate you can make a number you you can quote a number for an apartment and if somebody pays you that so you're saying he refinanced much of his hotels and casinos through russia that's right right which means russia holds the note on a bunch of his real estate on all of them all of them he doesn't own anymore most of it how would someone a forensic financial investigator go about proving something like that that's easy it has been done already okay interesting yes so that's what jack smith is talking about all right he's referring to this so what do you make of this whole conflict with ukraine and russia well and trump's position on it and i i i'm pro uh ukraine i'm against russia they had no reason to invade ukraine and uh it's it's a shame that we let it go so far if america would have put a foot down a long time ago when it started and told russia stay away from from ukraine if not nato and us will come and assist them yeah he wouldn't he wouldn't have done it yeah but he felt enough secure to go ahead and invade ukraine because he knew that america will not stop him and america will make sure that nato will not stop him and that's what happened but now things are changing nato is now reacting differently and we are slowly now releasing more weapons to them just recently just for yesterday we gave him another a huge amount of missiles and so on who is that who do we give missiles to uh ukraine to venezuelan right we're allowing him now to to build of our weapons in ukraine yes now what about the argument what do you think about the argument though that a lot of smart people make geopolitical analysts make about how ukraine or the united states has been pushing allowing nato to creep up closer and closer and closer to russia when the original agreement was no ukraine that was always a hard line and then they're all of a sudden now there's talks not only is the united states putting bioweapons labs in ukraine and and doing coups in ukraine and trying to influence ukrainian politics when that's always been off the table because that was the one hard line boundary that that putin had when it came to nato expansion but we said you we're gonna keep pushing nato as far as we can and you know not only that but like there was the the color revolutions the maidan thing and all that where this is ukraine's been this tug of war between the west and russia and you know eventually the dam just broke like like can you see it from his perspective yeah it's it what what happens right now you nato woke up and realize they cannot rely on in the united states anymore for security they need to develop their own capabilities to defend europe and not rely they hope that america as part of nato will come in but if they don't they need to be able to defend themselves they see the way the war with they see now what it was obvious before that ukraine was the only country who was in war with russia that everyone should have supported to put russia in place from the beginning and it hasn't happened now they are waking up they're all supporting ukraine including united states as of the last few weeks are supporting ukraine more than ever before it's because they're realizing that russia will not stop with ukraine they will go for poland they will go for romania they need a port in the mediterranean they need Bucharest, they need Romania also. So if you don't stop them now with Ukraine. Right, I see what you're saying, but isn't this all because of us? Didn't we start this problem? Oh yeah, of course we started the problem. Of course we started the problem because whoever made the decision to start the problem had no clue of European politics and history. Like imagine if you put the shoe on the other foot and if Russia started opening bioweapons labs in Mexico and started doing coups with the Mexican government and doing all this stuff and started putting ICBM missile sites. But all the stuff that you just said happened two or three years into the war already. It didn't happen because we came in one day and started putting those labs and Russia said, wow, look what they're doing. Let's attack. Let's attack Ukraine. No, it all happened after two or three years of mega attempts of attacks on Ukraine by Russia. You're saying pre-2019? Yes. Or post-2019? Post. Yeah, but we've been pushing NATO up closer and closer and then the talks about getting Ukraine to join NATO happened before that. Yeah, we wanted to allow NATO. We wanted to make. We invited Russia. We invited Russia to join NATO too if they wanted. No, that's not what I heard. No, no, no. Originally, there was a time before Trump that there were talks among the intelligence departments in the United States that it would be wise to have long-term peace in the world in a way because we are worried about China, not Russia. And we would like to have Russia with us if ever. If ever it came to a war with China. So we needed to have a dialogue with them. Maybe they want to join, not officially, but be closer. We will cooperate. We will not attack them. They will not attack. We will. There were talks about bringing them into the European team. And they refused to do so. They refused to come on board. Then the United States decided we are going to push them to maybe make a different decision by getting NATO closer, bringing, instigating, maybe bringing Ukraine into NATO, which Russia put it as a red line. We were testing. It's all testing each other. How far can we go? The little kids slap on a hand here, slap on a hand there. It's not serious because you don't have. Real professionals who make those decisions in the United States right now. They don't have read history. They're not following history. They don't understand the. Look what happened with Iran. It's the same story. We miscalculated it, not because we were stupid. It's because we never studied it. We never listened to professionals. The first arrangement with Iran regarding the nuclear agreement was done during Obama. And the person who ran this deal was, what's his name, the famous senator who. He worked on it for almost two years. What senator did the Iran deal? The JCPOA? He was famous. He was running for president and then he. Bob Corker? Sorry? Ben Cardin, Bob Corker? No. This is what I got. No. The guy who is attributed to the top guy who negotiated the. Who negotiated the JCPOA. Go on, John Kerry? Yeah. John Kerry. John Kerry. John Kerry worked for two years. Negotiating it with the Iranian. And he said they were professional. They were smart people. It took two years to come up with. We tore it apart. Netanyahu hated the JCPOA. Of course. Of course. Because it was against his will to attack. Right. You thought it was a good thing? Did what? JCPOA? Yes. The Iran deal? Yes. Yes. It delayed everything and hopefully. A lot of people one day will come and run the world and we don't need wars. I'm against wars because I've seen what wars do. Yeah. We were talking about this last night. It's like we're in the age where war doesn't work anymore and it's become obvious. No, it doesn't work anymore. And China has already seen this. Exactly. And they're playing the long game and they're just going to let these crazy maniacs run around with the guns. Because the leaders in China are there forever. It's the same people for years, generations. After generation, they learn. They saw history. Here, every four years, you get another person. By the time he studies what's going on. Right. And if he's not smart, he can't study at all. Right. Period. You get more done when you're not a democracy. Exactly. And when you're trying to spin your wheels and pretend like you're a democracy. That's it. Running the shadow government behind the scenes. You just said it. Yeah. That's become more. I think the whole Epstein stuff coming out has made that more apparent. To the public. The people who are at least paying attention. I think so. And I hope so. I hope people listen. I hope people open their eyes and just connect dots. Yeah. Because most people are smart enough to realize things on their own. But if they're hooked to one version of somebody who's dictating that version to them and they obey it and close their eyes and don't want to see anything else, then shame on them. Speaking of John Kerry, who is connected to Iran-Contra. Oh, I mean, he is, yeah. And all that stuff. Yeah. Explain how you got into investigating the Pan Am bombing. Oh, very simple. After the plane was shut down, it exploded in the air over Lakabi. There was a bomb on board. And the. The Pan Am. What, it was 88? Yeah. Okay. And they wanted to know, Pan Am wanted to know what had happened to the plane, who put the bomb on board, because it was clear there was a bomb on board. And they wanted to know who put the bomb, who was behind it. So their insurance company, the insurance company, USAIG, the insurance company that insured Pan Am, and would pay for that study, hired me. So Pan Am and the insurer interviewed all the biggest investigators in the world, and so on. And in the end, they decided to hire me to do the investigation. And I went out and for two months, two and a half months, I went to Europe undercover, did my stuff, came back and wrote a report. And the report suggested, and I had all the information, all the evidence in the report, suggested that there was a drug operation done in the Middle East, in Beirut, where the CIA allowed drug dealers shipping drugs to the United States and got piece of the money that it was sold on the streets to children in Chicago and New York to raise a slush fund that the CIA was putting together to finance the war in the countries in Latin America. And it was an Oliver Knowles operation. It came out, it blew up later on. And it wasn't, it came out later, but at the beginning. So I saw that. And what have happened, we had seven hostages. This is the famous British and US hostages that were held in Beirut at the time. And the US government decided they wanted, they want to go release them by force. Reagan decided-- - October surprise? - Yeah, yeah, something. So they sent three of America's James Bonds. I mean, really unbelievable. Three guys, Green Beret, CIA operated. They sent them undercover to Beirut to find out where do they hold, where the hostages are being held. Where the Marines can storm the beaches, go in and release them by force. Those three arrive in Beirut and they don't know anybody there. So they contact the CIA guys that are stationed in Beirut all year round at the embassy and so on for help. And through discussions, they find out that the CIA is allowing a suitcase full of heroin on a weekly basis going from Beirut, Beirut to Cyprus from Cyprus to london and london to new york on panama every week and they said those guys are doing the cia guys on on the ground are doing drug dealings and so on we're not gonna cooperate with that and we're not gonna let the marines come in we don't trust them now maybe they're gonna sell us out or the cia people we're flying back to washington and we're gonna go to congress and we're gonna spill the guts and they made a fatal mistake by telling the people on the ground guys we're going back and we're gonna blow you guys out of the water they bought a ticket tickets they flew from it was just before christmas they flew from beirut they took the boat from beirut to cyprus bought went to the m travel agency in in cyprus to buy tickets on panama 103 to go home on christmas just before christmas stop there the guys in in on the ground called langley and said the three guys that you send in to do the job yeah are on the way back they're coming back to spill the guts to congress of what's going on we're giving you heads up okay so now the cia knows that the three guys are on board of panama 103 because they have copies of the tickets and all the passengers they know their names and so on so now the suitcase is a different story a few months before that happened the u.s government a navy boat in the mediterranean in a um gulf shut down an iranian aircraft so they're on board of panama 103 because they have copies of the tickets and all the passengers they know their names and so on so now the suitcase is a different story few months before that happened the u.s government a navy boat in the mediterranean in a gulf shut down an iranian aircraft the u.s government a navy boat in the mediterranean in a gulf shut down an iranian aircraft civilian aircraft by mistake full of aircraft civilian aircraft by mistake full of aircraft civilian aircraft by mistake full of pilgrims that came in from mecca to iran pilgrims that came in from mecca to iran pilgrims that came in from mecca to iran they were flying over the they were flying over the they were flying over the boat and they by mistake thought that boat and they by mistake thought that boat and they by mistake thought that they're coming to attack them they're coming to attack them they're coming to attack them to shut them down and the following day to shut them down and the following day to shut them down and the following day there were there were there were pictures of bodies of women and children pictures of bodies of women and children pictures of bodies of women and children floating on it it was a disaster floating on it it was a disaster floating on it it was a disaster iran officially iran officially iran officially said that they're gonna avenge that said that they're gonna avenge that said that they're gonna avenge that they're gonna shut down they're gonna do they're gonna shut down they're gonna do they're gonna shut down they're gonna do something to an american courier something to an american courier something to an american courier before christmas before christmas before christmas an american what korea an american what korea an american what korea panama it wasn't okay it wasn't aimed panama it wasn't okay it wasn't aimed panama it wasn't okay it wasn't aimed at paname right at paname right at paname right so so so iran needed deniability they didn't want iran needed deniability they didn't want iran needed deniability they didn't want to do it on their own to do it on their own to do it on their own they hired ahmad jibril who was a they hired ahmad jibril who was a they hired ahmad jibril who was a notorious terrorist out of notorious terrorist out of notorious terrorist out of damascus was hiding in damascus who damascus was hiding in damascus who damascus was hiding in damascus who was specializing in aviation bombing was specializing in aviation bombing was specializing in aviation bombing notorious he tried several times to do notorious he tried several times to do notorious he tried several times to do other aircraft and it didn't succeed but other aircraft and it didn't succeed but other aircraft and it didn't succeed but he was the ticket he got documented now he was the ticket he got documented now he was the ticket he got documented now 50 million dollars to do their 50 million dollars to do their 50 million dollars to do their to do their to put a bomb on a american to do their to put a bomb on a american to do their to put a bomb on a american airliner airliner airliner happens to be that ahmad jibril owned the happens to be that ahmad jibril owned the happens to be that ahmad jibril owned the becca valley becca valley becca valley the becca valley is where all the drugs the becca valley is where all the drugs the becca valley is where all the drugs are being grown and all the are being grown and all the are being grown and all the heroin and stuff comes from heroin and stuff comes from heroin and stuff comes from it's his operation that's how he makes it's his operation that's how he makes it's his operation that's how he makes money money money you're wrong in in you're wrong in in you're wrong in in beirut in in becca valley beirut in in becca valley beirut in in becca valley so he so he so he knows because he is preparing the suitcase knows because he is preparing the suitcase knows because he is preparing the suitcase a weekly suitcase that the cia is taking a weekly suitcase that the cia is taking a weekly suitcase that the cia is taking and selling it and selling it and selling it to raise money it was his suitcase and to raise money it was his suitcase and to raise money it was his suitcase and his courier that takes it on board his courier that takes it on board his courier that takes it on board he said very easy rather than drugs he said very easy rather than drugs he said very easy rather than drugs i'm gonna put i'm gonna put i'm gonna put a bomb in it the cia courier a bomb in it the cia courier a bomb in it the cia courier will take it with him and he always will take it with him and he always will take it with him and he always says that it's a diplomatic pouch says that it's a diplomatic pouch says that it's a diplomatic pouch government pouch no custom doesn't open government pouch no custom doesn't open government pouch no custom doesn't open it he will put it on board of the it he will put it on board of the it he will put it on board of the aircraft aircraft aircraft any aircraft that we can some but it's any aircraft that we can some but it's any aircraft that we can some but it's going to be panama because we know the going to be panama because we know the going to be panama because we know the route of that suitcase every week route of that suitcase every week route of that suitcase every week and the rest of history and the rest of history and the rest of history and that's what happened and that's what happened and that's what happened it happened to be it happened to be it happened to be that it's the same aircraft that the that it's the same aircraft that the that it's the same aircraft that the three cia guys that were flying back to three cia guys that were flying back to three cia guys that were flying back to spill their guts spill their guts spill their guts we're on flight we're on flight we're on flight one or three one or three one or three going out of london now going out of london now going out of london now so i did the investigation and i found so i did the investigation and i found so i did the investigation and i found out that it's a long story that the suitcase that it's a long story that the suitcase that it's a long story that the suitcase comes into frankfurt to uh to frankfurt comes into frankfurt to uh to frankfurt comes into frankfurt to uh to frankfurt to frankfurt in germany to frankfurt in germany to frankfurt in germany and then and then and then it it goes on a feeder what they call a it it goes on a feeder what they call a it it goes on a feeder what they call a feeder it's a small aircraft to london feeder it's a small aircraft to london feeder it's a small aircraft to london plane that goes a jumbo jet goes every plane that goes a jumbo jet goes every plane that goes a jumbo jet goes every day day day to new york to new york to new york so so so the suitcase the suitcase the suitcase comes down the comes down the comes down the comes down the as somebody checks it in the comes down the as somebody checks it in the comes down the as somebody checks it in the courier checks the suitcase courier checks the suitcase courier checks the suitcase he comes in he buys a ticket he checks he comes in he buys a ticket he checks he comes in he buys a ticket he checks a suitcase in germany the suitcase goes a suitcase in germany the suitcase goes a suitcase in germany the suitcase goes down to the basement down to the basement down to the basement where all the suitcases are being put on where all the suitcases are being put on where all the suitcases are being put on a trolley a trolley a trolley and then taken to the aircraft and then taken to the aircraft and then taken to the aircraft like every day right like every day right like every day right at that time the cia had the cia had the cia had an undercover person works at the at a an undercover person works at the at a an undercover person works at the at a baggage handling area baggage handling area baggage handling area they wanted to make sure that somebody they wanted to make sure that somebody they wanted to make sure that somebody down at the baggage area will supervise down at the baggage area will supervise down at the baggage area will supervise that the suitcase that is coming down that the suitcase that is coming down that the suitcase that is coming down the escalator with all the rest of the the escalator with all the rest of the the escalator with all the rest of the suitcases nobody will touch it nobody suitcases nobody will touch it nobody suitcases nobody will touch it nobody will open it and so on because there's will open it and so on because there's will open it and so on because there's drug in it right not a bomb the drug in drug in it right not a bomb the drug in drug in it right not a bomb the drug in it it it and just put it on the right trolley to and just put it on the right trolley to and just put it on the right trolley to the aircraft the aircraft the aircraft his name was o'neill okay so when i did the investigation when i did the investigation when i did the investigation i told the panama listen you own i told the panama listen you own i told the panama listen you own the baggage handling area it's your the baggage handling area it's your the baggage handling area it's your baggage in the air it's panama's baggage in the air it's panama's baggage in the air it's panama's baggage in the area i want to do a baggage in the area i want to do a baggage in the area i want to do a polygraph test to the five guys there polygraph test to the five guys there polygraph test to the five guys there to see if they know about a mysterious to see if they know about a mysterious to see if they know about a mysterious suitcase and what's in the suitcase suitcase and what's in the suitcase suitcase and what's in the suitcase i said okay we'll arrange it i flew i said okay we'll arrange it i flew i said okay we'll arrange it i flew i took with me a retired fbi i took with me a retired fbi i took with me a retired fbi top fbi polygrapher who retired and was top fbi polygrapher who retired and was top fbi polygrapher who retired and was the best fbi polygrapher ever the best fbi polygrapher ever the best fbi polygrapher ever he came he worked for me now i flew with he came he worked for me now i flew with he came he worked for me now i flew with him to frankfurt him to frankfurt him to frankfurt and we did a polygraph announced the and we did a polygraph announced the and we did a polygraph announced the polygraph to the five people polygraph to the five people polygraph to the five people that day four arrived and one didn't that day four arrived and one didn't that day four arrived and one didn't arrive to the polygraph arrive to the polygraph arrive to the polygraph the four that arrived the four that arrived the four that arrived tested said yeah we knew about tested said yeah we knew about tested said yeah we knew about we didn't know what's in it we didn't know what's in it we didn't know what's in it the guy who didn't show up came in two the guy who didn't show up came in two the guy who didn't show up came in two hours later running in and said hours later running in and said hours later running in and said mr aviv i need to talk to you i cannot mr aviv i need to talk to you i cannot mr aviv i need to talk to you i cannot take the polygraph take the polygraph take the polygraph i said why can't you take he said well i said why can't you take he said well i said why can't you take he said well um um um i just came i just came back from the i just came i just came back from the i just came i just came back from the american embassy in bonn american embassy in bonn american embassy in bonn i went to talk to my handler and my i went to talk to my handler and my i went to talk to my handler and my supervisor and they told me don't take supervisor and they told me don't take supervisor and they told me don't take this polygraph test this polygraph test this polygraph test but i can tell you that i wasn't there but i can tell you that i wasn't there but i can tell you that i wasn't there the day that specific suitcase the day that specific suitcase the day that specific suitcase with the bomb went through i had went with the bomb went through i had went with the bomb went through i had went to the dentist that day to the dentist that day to the dentist that day on behalf to them on behalf to them on behalf to them the german authorities were suspecting the german authorities were suspecting the german authorities were suspecting that there was something going on in the that there was something going on in the that there was something going on in the in the area of the baggage handling of in the area of the baggage handling of in the area of the baggage handling of panama panama panama because the panama was the only courier because the panama was the only courier because the panama was the only courier who flew american who went to berlin at who flew american who went to berlin at who flew american who went to berlin at the time had a flight to berlin also the time had a flight to berlin also the time had a flight to berlin also they thought that there's something they thought that there's something they thought that there's something going on in berlin going on in berlin going on in berlin with the russians so they were at cameras with the russians so they were at cameras with the russians so they were at cameras in the area and i got the footage from in the area and i got the footage from in the area and i got the footage from them them them and i see o'neill taking the suitcase and i see o'neill taking the suitcase and i see o'neill taking the suitcase and going to the public phone and making and going to the public phone and making a phone call hanging it and puts the suitcase on the trolley and takes it so he wasn't at the dentist then panam owns all the phones in the area in the baggage handling they were recording all the phone calls were recorded because they were abused by the baggage handler they were calling their families all over the world when they didn't have work to do so panama wanted to see who was making all those phone calls and so i got the phone call i got the phone call and the phone call says this is o'neill calling the embassy in bonn i have the suitcase today it's much heavier than usual and the answer there is we know let it go whoa i got the suit i got the tape i got i got i said i have a bombshell what did the cia know and why did they let the bomb go right okay furthermore it's getting even more complicated we find out that the day of the flight or the few days before the flight suddenly 48 or 68 people cancelled their flight on that specific flight going to new york and before christmas you couldn't get a ticket right i mean it's impossible and what happened unfortunately a class of the university of syracuse We're on vacation. I'm still emotional about it. 48 of them got the tickets to go on board and died on board. Who got off the flight? Government employees that the CIA warned to get off the flight, cancel the flight. Oh, Jesus Christ. And we had all the cancellations because Pan Am were my client and I can get flight. All the cancellations were government officials. Yeah. Okay. So now I wrote the report and that report became a nightmare for me. I finished the report and O'Neill of course gave us a confession. Later on, yes, I was there and I was told not to and not to take the call and the polygraph and so on. But we took the report. I gave it to Pan Am. They flipped out. The CIA allowed the bomb to go aboard. And they used an American courier at flight every week for 16 months documented to have that suitcase 16 months on a daily basis, weekly basis, flying to New York with drugs. A CIA guy came to the airport. To pick the suitcase up before it even went through customs. He used to come on a weekly basis. Went to Pan Am and said, I'm a CIA guy. I have a diplomatic pouch on the plane. They drove him to the plane when it landed. He picked up the suitcase and drove it out. It never went through customs. They're all documented. Now we have a bombshell. You locked the hotel room. Then check it again. And maybe one more time. You locked the hotel room door. Then check it again. So, the chairman of Panam and the insurance guy decided we're going to go to Washington and we're going to confront the CIA. And they took me with them. And in the meeting, the people there who met me, they said, they didn't know who I am. They thought I'm a lawyer. Part of the legal theme. And one of the top guys, which I won't mention who it is, a top guy said to the head of Panam and the insurer, guys, whatever is mentioned in this report is true. But you cannot do anything about it, talk about it, because it's national security and state secret. And you're not. You're not allowed to do anything with it. Okay? So, they said, really? We're not going to go? We're going to go to the president with this. We're going to go. We are now going to go as high as we can to get an answer. Why did you guys allow a suitcase full of drugs, 18 months going on our aircraft? So, I go home. And they went and talked to some other people, got the same story, you cannot use it, it's national security. And we want to know who wrote the report, because some of the information, they said to them, some of the information in the report must have come from our computers, because it's so accurate. From whose computers? From the CIA computers. They wanted to know who wrote it. So, I'm at home, Friday night, watching TV, eating dinner, suddenly, I see a news report. It's a news blitz. A congressman, a trafficant, standing in front of Congress, with my report in his hand, and he says, "Pan Am 103 was downed by the CIA, and the reporter, Yuval Aviv, of Interfo, wrote this report that I have in my hand, and we will publish it." Hours later, my house was surrounded by media trucks, with antennas, I couldn't get out of the house. All the, every reporter, every media, every newspaper, every whatever, worldwide, came to my house, they wanted an interview with me. They knew my name now. I wrote the report. So, I couldn't get out of the house. Two weeks, I'm at home, and the guys outside, they're relentless, they're staying there with the cameras, my wife couldn't go out, I mean, it was really a disaster. And, Pan Am negotiated with the press, that not all of them, but one designated person will come to interview me. Pan Am will arrange for the interview. They'll allow it. I came to the interview, and the government didn't allow them to do the interview. And, the media guy didn't show up. Wow. So, now, trafficant, they went after trafficant. What's his name? It was trafficant. Traffic. Trafficant, famous. It was. Not trafficante. Trafficante. The mob guy? Yeah. Well, later on, they said the mob. Huh. He was a congressman. Is it trafficant or a. James trafficant. What? James trafficant. Oh, trafficant. Oh, this guy. Okay, James trafficant. I thought you were talking about trafficant. James trafficant, yeah. Okay, I was talking about, I think it was something different. No, no, no. Okay. So, now, every reporter in the world, every magazine in Europe, in the world, had a copy of my report, and they were all trying to go and see if there's holes in my reports or something. Just for the record, Google AI says, despite the claims that there was a CIA bomb on board, which were sensationalized by the media in the late '80s and early '90s. No evidence ever substantiated the theory that there was a DEA sting operation, or any CIA involvement, or any drug trafficking allowed by terrorists. Yeah, well, that's- Google AI says you're completely full of shit. Yeah, of course. I know that. They tried it during the trial. I won the trial. Then they changed, they had to change it. Okay. So, now, I'm at home and Panam comes to me and says, "Listen. Would you go to Europe and help continue the investigation, because now we have to expand it?" I said, "No. It's impossible for me to get out of the house, they're all following me." Time magazine came to me, the new office, and said, "Listen. We will assign our best investigative reporter." He's an old-timer, he's in retirement, Roy Rowan, we're bringing him back. He was the investigator on the killing of. Kennedy. Kennedy. Kennedy. He found the Caputo footage- The Bruder film? Yeah, yeah. What was this guy's name? Roy Rowan. If you, in the stuff that I send you, there's a- Roy Rowan. Okay. Yeah. Roy Rowan. He's famous. Okay. So, if you agree, you travel with Roy Rowan, and you investigate with him, you reinvestigate- Yeah, Roy Rowan. You reinvestigate. Yeah. the footage. You do again what you've done, and show him how you did it. If he comes back, and he says that everything you said is correct, we will give you a cover, and 10, 15 pages, and support you. If he comes back, and he says you're full of shit, then we will give you a cover and 20 pages that you're not going to like. - Right. - I said, in i'll do it thank you i went with roy warren we did um form four weeks investigation traced most of the stuff he interviewed the people there he did everything that i done came back and you have a picture of it in in my book proposal yeah find the time magazine cover yeah time magazine gave me a juval aviv time magazine pan am uh gave me a uh page phone page plus uh 20 pages saying that whatever i said in reports correct and so on so i bet the cia wasn't happy about that oh wait it's getting worse now every other magazine start copying time magazine right the night time magazine used to come in every sunday night you can buy it already sunday night before the subscribers would get it monday tuesday so on sunday night ted couple of nightline called me up and said i would like to do a full hour normally he has four people that he interviews 60 minutes no it's a abc nightline okay got it ted couple okay he he was he was the the news person every sunday right against stationed against 60 minutes got it not against a competition got it so he said i'm gonna screw the rest of the people you're gonna get a full hour on your own i want to interview you and i did the interview with him and he said i support fully support your investigation too now you have abc nightline you have time magazine and you have all the european mega newspapers my pictures on board and so on saying yes he his report is correct the cia and the government government have to do something about it so they decided to make an announcement that they found who put the bombs on board two libyans out of malta sent the bombs in an unattended suitcase that went on panama 103 with a bomb in it and they are working for qaddafi and they're hiding in um where's qaddafi uh libya libya and since they're hiding in libya and qaddafi is not going to release them there's nothing we can do about it and of course we know that's what the cia said yeah yeah it announced made a press conference so now it didn't work because the reporters started looking into that and realized that those two guys who worked there the libyans had nothing to do with banam and they didn't have a suitcase weren't in the airport at the time to send it and so on that whole theory fell apart but meanwhile it it was it was countering my opportunity to say my my my investigation was right right so then they decided they're gonna sue us all the cia yeah the government the cia will sue us who is the president um is it reagan 88 88 i don't know yeah it must have been reagan yeah i think it's reagan okay so friday afternoon again i'm sitting in my office thinking it's all over two fbi come in and said to me uh and those are two fbi that i worked for 12 years they were my my the people i worked with on cases who hired me to work with them and so on that we apologize but we have to arrest you and take you downtown and book you uh you are arrested for lying on a report that you did for a client of yours i said guys good luck to you i'll come with you with pleasure you can arrest me you don't even have to work hard i'll come with you and we're going to have it we're going to court with this we're going to have a trial and i'm going to embarrass the hell out of all of you so we're going to have a trial and i'm going to embarrass the hell out of all of you so they said to me since we're friends we are not going to put handcuffs on you in your office so the building where you are you know you everybody knows you you come to the car outside with us don't run away and we'll put handcuffs on you we have to in the car so no problem they take me downtown to downtown in manhattan to that office and no one in the office is willing to fingerprint me because they're all my friends over there they had to bring in an agent from another city to come in special i'm sitting there waiting for him to fingerprint me then they walk me to court and meanwhile my my office called jerry chagall jerry chagall is the most famous criminal lawyer in new york at the time jerry chagall he defended all the mafia people the major ones they couldn't put them in jail just because of him he is an unbelievable powerful a criminal lawyer and since i knew that something wouldn't come up i've thought before i contacted him a month before i was arrested and said jerry we were friends i worked with him on cases um if anything happens i want you to be my lawyer says with pleasure don't worry i'll come and do it come and bail you out so now they hire they came to pick me up friday night on purpose by the afternoon that by the time i get to court and by the time they book me there's no judge to release me they can't book they cannot do anything right but i have to go to jail and spend the weekend in jail yeah yeah little did they know that as soon as they arrived in court and booked me in court officially jerry was there already and bail me out now we go home and jerry says to me java listen carefully you are taking on the government this is no they are going to do everything they lie they'll cheat to put you in jail actually what they all want is to say for you for you to say that you misunderstood this the evidence that you saw and the report is false if you are willing to do that they'll let you go i said i'm not going to do that absolutely not everything in the report is right and you're going to defend me it took a year and a half to get to a trial from the moment i was booked in the year and a half the fbi went to every client of mine bed moused me told them not to give me work told them that i'm an israeli spy who was sent by israel to make the cia look bad as if the cia needs me to look bad they are doing a great job on their own without me or without israel and we're building the game during that year every week this fbi comes into cherry's office and said listen tell your client please tell your client please tell your client please to just take back his report say he's not it and we let it go and jerry says i tried he doesn't want he wants a trial now little did i know how much it's going to cost so the cost is astronomic first of all jerry just to say hello to him is fifty thousand fifty thousand dollars in cash on the table just to say hello before he even starts you know those are numbers that you cannot believe because his clients are all mafia people they have the money and the fbi went and put a freeze on all my bank accounts that can use money my corporate accounts my bank account i couldn't pay payroll i can i have hundreds of employees thank god to a client in toronto who said to me duval you did very well by me i will finance you during this period of time i will pay your pay i'll do everything for you i'll pay jerry for you and when you win the case i know you're going to pay me back and i said that and because of him i'm i'm i'm sitting here and talking wow because it went astronomical amount of money so now the government needs to put a case they had to go and indict me officially they went twice to a grand jury and couldn't indict me the grand jury wouldn't indict me so they came after 60 days to jerry and said could you give us an extension please because we can't find so i said jerry don't give them are you crazy now if they did it's over he said juval it's say let's give them an extension because they're gonna find something else and come back again with something else let's do it right i said okay so they're gonna find something else and come back again is there something else let's do it right i said okay so they took another 30 days and they charged me with the two counts that they do when they have no that's what they call the ham sandwich indictment right one count Well, they accused me that I lied on a report that I did for GE Capital. I was a consultant for GE Capital. They were taking their best clients every year on a yacht, on a big boat, love boat, on a Caribbean tour cruise, a month's cruise. And they brought in from all over the world the biggest clients. And they hired me to go to all the islands that they're going to be parked and the people are going to get off the boat to sightseeing to see if it's secure. Just to give them a stamp of approval. Like an advanced team type deal. Yeah, advanced team. And they paid me. I went. I did the tour. I came back, gave them a report. They paid me for the report. Thank you. And they loved it. Okay. What now? The indictment? The indictment was, GE Capital is in Connecticut, I'm in New York, that they charged me for one wire fraud because I wired, I wired the report, I'm sorry, not wire, one mail fraud because I sent by mail my report to Connecticut to my client, GE client. And then one client. count of wire fraud because they wired me the money, paid me for that. I said, "Jerry, we have a problem." I needed the money. I drove to Connecticut in my car, and I handed them personally the report, and right then and then they gave me a check. They didn't wire me the money. So those two indictment is obsolete. - It's wire fraud to send a wire from Connecticut to New York? - Yeah. - What? - Yeah, of course, it's across states. - You can't send a wire across states? - Yes, but if it's fraudulent because I lied on a report, I caused them to send me funding because I lied on a report. They claimed that I never went to those islands. - I see. - And I never did the tour. I just wrote a report and gave a report. And therefore, if they can get me accused of lying on that report, then they can say that I also lied on the Panama report. - I understand. - That's what it was all about. They needed to prove the report, Panama's report. Now, GE was outrageous because, A, how did the FBI find out that I even did the job for them? Did the FBI go to all my clients and say, "What did you want to work for you? "What did they do for you?" They probably did. Until they found that, they said, "That's a good one. "We can use that." So now, we're going to a trial. And at great cost to the government, taxpayers, they brought in from those islands, the governors of the island, the police commissioners of the island, all the people that I claimed in my report that I met when I went there, introduced myself and said, "GE is sending a love boat full of people here. "I'm coming to tell you in advance." And we just say hello and so on and so forth. Every one of those people that I met, I gave them my business card, as I always do, and they gave me their business cards. When I came back, I sent them thank you report, and they sent me thank you report, and three of them asked me for a job because they are retiring in writing. Okay, this is the people that now, they're claiming that I never met, the FBI claims that. We go to trial, cut the story short. It's just before Christmas again. And they brought all those people, put them in Waldorf Astoria for a week, wined and dined them, so they can say that they never met me. And it was three years later, four years later, I mean, I came to somebody's office, shook his hand, they think he remembers me, no. The first gentleman that they introduced, that prosecutor that introduced, is the governor of one of the island. An older gentleman, looks distinguished really, and so on. He walks in and sits down, and the prosecutor says, he says, "Look at this guy there, Yuval Aviv. "Have you ever met with him?" The guy looks at me and says, "No, I never met with him." "Are you sure you never met with him?" "Sure." Jerry gets up and says, "Governor, good afternoon. "I'm glad you're here. "Tell me, before we start, are you taking any medication?" The government says, "You know, I'm over 70 years old. "Everyone in that age takes medication. "Yes, I'm taking medication." Would you tell the court what type of medication do you take? No, I couldn't, I'm not gonna say. So the judge says, "Excuse me, governor, "you are in my court now, and you have to tell him the truth." Okay, I take medication for, I have Alzheimer's. The jury were laughing. The judge was furious. So you don't remember him? No. Okay. Jerry takes out from his pocket, 'cause we did, we knew who's coming, so we investigate all of them, we prepared. Jerry takes out a magazine, a newspaper, and says to the governor, "Do you know Susan Smith?" "No, I don't know Susan Smith." "Are you sure that you do not know Susan Smith?" "No, I don't know Susan Smith." He picks up the newspaper. "Susan Smith is the cousin of the governor. "She was awarded as a beauty queen of the island, "and he had pictures with her on the front page "of the newspaper a month ago before he came." And he didn't remember her. When the judge saw that, he says to him, "Mr. Governor, "I want you to get up and leave the room right now, "this court, and never come back." And just before he is getting up, and he said, "Actually, now that I look at him, "I think I remember him," you know? And he walks out. - Oh, my God. - One, the court case was for a week. One by one, all those guys that they brought in, Jerry did a number on them, similar numbers, so now the jury is going to deliberation, and you know, you never know, because the government is trying to do it. Two minutes after they're going to deliberation, the foreman of the jury comes up and says, "Your Honor, I need to talk to you in chambers." My heart was on, now it's more money, you know, it's Friday night, I thought it's gonna be over already. Monday, it's another $25,000 per day. So we all go, the prosecutor, Jerry, myself, and the lawyer, another lawyer, we go into the chambers, and the foreman said, "Your Honor, we the jury in the jury room, "we want to acquit Aviv right away, "but we are afraid that the FBI is gonna go after us also." The judge says, "I understand. "I will come to the jury room. "I will address the jury, I will give all of you, "an 800 number, it is a free number that you can use "from any phone, to my chamber, and any time in the future "that you guys have problems with the FBI, "you think you have, you call my number "and call my chamber, and let me know about it. "But it doesn't allow you now to go and commit crimes, "so you can go." Now they go back, and I said, "Oh my God, I hope it works." I cannot tell you what it takes, for somebody who is accused by the government, to when the jury is coming back, and the former, the clerk says, "All rise, the jury comes in." And you're standing there. With all my fame and experience of doing Munich and 10 other things, I was never so weak, and never so worried as I was at that moment. 'Cause I didn't know what they're gonna say. My whole future was on the line. I had my whole family, my friends in the background, waiting to see, the place was full with reporters from all over the world, because they wanted to see what happens. The jury exonerated me in two minutes. Not guilty, not guilty on all cases, and the judge, the judge said, which I still, I framed it, and I have it in my office on the wall. The judge said, "Mr. Aviv, you are leaving my court with your chin up," I'm quoting now, "with your chin up. The government has concocted a case against you to punish you for the Panam case, and you have prevailed. Good luck to you." So now, To be truth, I needed to go to the best i needed to pee so badly because i was holding that i was so the bathrooms are not on the same floor of the court of the courtroom they're on the lower court i'm running to the elevator to go downstairs to pee i walk into the elevator the prosecutor and the fbi guy who were instigating everything against me was standing there so i look at them and i said guys remember one thing for the rest of your life you had your day now it's mine for the rest of your life always look behind your back because one day i'll be there so the fbi guy stopped the elevator ran out ran into court and start your honor your honor mr aviv just threatened us in the elevator and the judge turned around and said good for him that was the end of it oh my god now what the fbi did the government did it's not only the fbi but the government did a week during jury uh um when they were interviewing jurors for the jury uh they put an they put a article in wall street journal front page mossad agent juval aviv defrauded ee capital and his anti-american that was an article while they collect while they're getting juries uh for the for jurors for the that was during the initial jury selection yes that's what they put there when i won the case there was a wall street jeweler put an article a small note in page 32 he was just acquitted from all case i mean you know they wouldn't why was it why i remember it because on the same page they had a big article against gingrich something about gingrich and then this was gingrich and then duval aviv the spy who defrauded ge capital that was every juror saw it i mean they're all new york they all read wall street yeah how is that not a case for like a mistrial yeah yeah yeah but all i tell you that's now i understand what the government is doing to call me what they're doing all those lawsuits against the um um in new york the um what's her name uh the uh wow i'm getting tired uh the uh the lawsuit in new york against again what's her name who sued trump for uh for money uh the oh oh yeah i know who you're talking about i can't remember the name anyways right off the top of my head yeah all of this stuff is that's what he's doing to all of them they're all suing and you know they're all trying to sue because it's costing you money to defend yourself yeah and the toll it takes on your family when they do that it's punishing you mm-hmm yeah it's uh it's very rare that somebody wins a case against the government now what i'm proud of to say that it's known i was sued by the fbi in the southern district of new york my trial was done at the southern district of new york 99 of all cases at the southern district of new york when they take a case and they really try to put you in jail you always go to jail in the end right so that's why the pressure was so high and besides that the government is trying so pushing them to make sure that i'm going to be indicted that i'm going to be accused and i'm going to be all of it i mean the sudden descent and i won it was jerry and at the same time while he was doing my case he was doing another case in the next room he was defending the promoter of the box the boxing promoter the guy with the big hair do you remember the uh with the big afro who was um muhammad ali no promoter oh they they promoter who was promoting all those big uh boxing what's the lawyer's name how do you spell his name jerry jerry how do you spell the last name s-h-a-r-g-e-l jerry shar gel pull him up i'm sure he'll have a list of some of his most famous clients let's see here i believe this is this is that jerry right there yeah that's him and the one in the head and all of them type in jerry shargel clients okay it's not client yeah what was it it's famous think okay click on his wikipedia i'm sure to list them there think notable clients there you go amanda binds jeffrey james conan uh mark dryer johnny machinegun johnny uh john gaudi yes he did he got he got him free sammy the bull grivano of course hey give me some whoa christopher chris gaudi lorenzo co-founder of murder inc records who was acquitted on all our charges of money laundering and conspiracy to lauder money against him wow oscar wyatt uh whoa oscar why the texas woman who pleaded guilty to paying kickbacks to hussein 's administration to gain access to iraqi oil contracts yeah yeah holy and malcolm smith no what was his name the promoter guys just type in just type in the guy's name and type in boxing promoter afterwards click back i gotcha the boxing promoter john john a-lite who a-lite not johnny no no that's my career mobsters defending the mobsters huh it's not pulling up anything about a boxing promoter that's weird about boxing soaking up knowledge about boxing it was his headlines all i mean really yes because what he did after he was acquitted he took the whole jury to a week vacation in hawaii i told the jury i'm sorry i can't do it that's incredible yes wow you remember the black guy was a big it's not ringing a bell for me i don't know in the 80s yes yeah it was too early for me i don't remember i was born in 87 so i was a little late to the party but that's an incredible story like like i said last night you're the forrest gump of the shadow world you've been everywhere and we haven't even talked about the danny casalero promise software stuff um talking about my upcoming book you know everything that i talked now about i'm writing a book i'm writing my memoirs right now and i'm you're the first time that i first person i talk about it because i just finished writing a book proposal and i'm looking for a publisher right now to publish it and it's going to tell all those stories so it covers everything from the original wrath of god operation to all the stories that's going to tell all those stories so it covers everything from the original wrath of god operation so it covers everything from the original wrath of god operation and what happened to me after and what happened to me after and what happened to me after in america and all the shadow government in america and all the shadow government in america and all the shadow government and everything around it and everything around it and everything around it and there's like a whole thing a whole and there's like a whole thing a whole and there's like a whole thing a whole backstory you knew danny casalero backstory you knew danny casalero backstory you knew danny casalero and you were working with on and like and you were working with on and like and you were working with on and like there's a story about how it's all there's a story about how it's all there's a story about how it's all connected to robert maxwell with the connected to robert maxwell with the connected to robert maxwell with the promise software and promise software and promise software and you're how you met ghislaine and all you're how you met ghislaine and all you're how you met ghislaine and all that stuff there's so much there's so that stuff there's so much there's so that stuff there's so much there's so much yeah you're connected to to so many much yeah you're connected to to so many much yeah you're connected to to so many different different different you know as what most people would call you know as what most people would call you know as what most people would call conspiracies that happened in the united conspiracies that happened in the united conspiracies that happened in the united states i mean that's why i wanted to states i mean that's why i wanted to states i mean that's why i wanted to write the book because there's too many write the book because there's too many write the book because there's too many events that really happened that i know events that really happened that i know events that really happened that i know of that i participated in and worked in of that i participated in and worked in of that i participated in and worked in that i've been that i've been that i've been now now now assumed as conspiracy and poo-pooed by the assumed as conspiracy and poo-pooed by the assumed as conspiracy and poo-pooed by the public and by the media and put away public and by the media and put away public and by the media and put away and i said time has come and i said time has come and i said time has come to make sure that to do justice by those people who died in to do justice by those people who died in to do justice by those people who died in those those those conspiracies and conspiracies and conspiracies and their story will never be told correctly their story will never be told correctly their story will never be told correctly and it has to be told correctly and it has to be told correctly and it has to be told correctly it's not fair yeah it's not fair yeah it's not fair yeah it's not fair because you know when you're it's not fair because you know when you're it's not fair because you know when you're in in in in america and i want to end by saying in america and i want to end by saying in america and i want to end by saying to you one thing to you one thing to you one thing yes it's going to be anything a new yes it's going to be anything a new yes it's going to be anything a new broadcast broadcast broadcast most americans as we know most americans as we know most americans as we know people they're innocent people they people they're innocent people they people they're innocent people they don't have malice in in in in their don't have malice in in in in their don't have malice in in in in their vein they don't go out to do fraud and vein they don't go out to do fraud and vein they don't go out to do fraud and purpose and so on purpose and so on purpose and so on most people would like to have a good most people would like to have a good most people would like to have a good job job job they want to come home to their family they want to come home to their family at night have dinner have sex go to at night have dinner have sex go to at night have dinner have sex go to sleep sleep sleep and enjoy life yes they don't want to and enjoy life yes they don't want to and enjoy life yes they don't want to hear hear hear that their president that their president that their president is corrupt is corrupt is corrupt they don't want to hear that their they don't want to hear that their they don't want to hear that their government is corrupt government is corrupt government is corrupt that people are dying all over in stuff that people are dying all over in stuff that people are dying all over in stuff in operations that shouldn't have in operations that shouldn't have in operations that shouldn't have happened at all happened at all happened at all they don't want to hear it they don't want to hear it and that's why the government gets and that's why the government gets and that's why the government gets away with all of it not only the u.s away with all of it not only the u.s away with all of it not only the u.s government it's netanyahu and then israel government it's netanyahu and then israel government it's netanyahu and then israel gets away with it and other countries gets away with it and other countries gets away with it and other countries too too too but it hurts us because we live here but it hurts us because we live here but it hurts us because we live here and it's our government who is has and it's our government who is has and it's our government who is has their share in all that kind of their share in all that kind of Things that they know. Label conversations. - Conspiracy. - Right. The people are not their government. - Exactly. - That's something that most people have to get a grip on these days. - Yeah. - Juval, thank you so much for doing this, man. This has been fascinating to say the very least. You've been everywhere and I hope your book can come out soon covering all this stuff. Is there a name, a title of it yet or? - Yes. - Is it like "Exposed" or something? - "Exposed." - "Exposed," okay. - Yeah. - Okay. - I sent you, I did send you the-- - Yeah, yeah, riveting. - The book proposal. - Yes, yes. It's a very riveting story and I hope people can get access to it sooner than later. - I hope so. - Anything else we should tell people before we leave? - No, just open your eyes and try to make your own decisions how you interpret it. The news, when you read the news or you listen to the news or you watch TV and get information, if it doesn't make sense to you, it may be not correct. It may be something that you need to just explore a little further. - Very well said. Thank you again. - Thank you. - Thank you for coming. - Thank you for having me. - I very much enjoyed this. - Thank you. - Good night, everybody. - This episode sponsored by She's Birdie. Then check it again, and maybe one more time. Just attach it to the door frame, switch it on, and if someone opens the door, BirdieBox blasts a loud siren and flashing alarm to alert you and everyone. That's S-H-E-S-B-I-R-D-I-E.com.