#413 - “They Injected Me with DMT to Study the Fabric of Reality” | Carl Hayden Smith

Olen Shannon Maldonado, käsintehtyjä artesaanitua teitä myyvän jauiilahjakaupan perustaja. Valitisin Shopify, koska alustoja testatessani totesin sen ehdottomasti yhdeksi helpokäyttöisimmistä alustoista. Minulla oli tärkeää pohtia kehittymistämme tulevaisuudessa. Kaikki myyntiin tarvittavat työkalut, kuten varaston suunnittelu ovat kätevästi dashboardissa. Aloita ilmainen kokeilu Shopify piste komsi vustolla. Verustin pyöräilyvaatteita valmistavan ornotin vuonna 2013. Mielestäni parasta Shopify saan se, että voimme harjoittaa liiketoimintaa ilman teknistä osaamista. Voimme hallinoida yrityksen taustajaristeelle mien ja front-endia sekä myyden verkossa. Vaivatta, jos Shopify olisi pyöräilyvaruste, se olisi mielestäni itse polkupyörä. Sillä asiat hoidetaan ja meidän liiketoiminta me hoituu Shopify'sssä. [Kokeilu] Sillä on kokeilu, että se on tullut piste komsi vustolla, että se on tullut piste komsi vustolla. Sillä on tullut piste komsi vustolla. Sillä on asia, että se on sillä asia, että se on sillä asia, että se on sillä asia, että se on sillä röntä ja mien ja muuta. Sillä on hiravuus. Sillä on hiravuus. Sillä on hiravuus. Sillä on hiravuus. Sillä on hiravuus. the course of five, three months. So every three weeks, I would do a different dose. And it would take you that time to kind of integrate the experience. And what was also interesting was the entities themselves, 'cause everyone sees entities, it seems. I'll talk a little bit about Ellusis and the project that we've got going on in the Caribbean where 74% of people that are doing DMTX are experiencing some sort of entity. And again, I'm a scientist, I'm a professor, I'm still on the fence as to whether these entities are your archetypes or your higher self or you in the future or something that you're tapping into. And I know Ruben Carr-Harris recently talked about that of course, in our subconscious, we try to make sense of these inferences. But I think the key thing is that they're so, as we're seeing more and more, that it's a hyper-real reality that has some sort of, you know, consistency. People are, there was the DMT Nexus, did this, the labyrinth where they actually crowdsourced, you know, people's trips to say, are you going to this part of DMT space? Are you going to this part of DMT space? And I think that that's fascinating that people are going to the same spaces. And if we can, if we can actually put maybe six people in and I was with Anton Bilton, his vision is like, let's see, six people launched at the same time. - And see if they experience this thing together. - See if they go to a common space. - Right. So how do they figure out, like, what would this, no one's ever died from DMT, right? I know people have died from Ibergain and from other things because of the heart rate issue. Lots of other psychedelics people have died from, but never with the DMT. So how did they figure out how to measure that and like how, like, pharmacologically can mix with your body and how that all works? - That was a big part of the pilot. - I feel like I would have been asking them so many goddamn questions, that was the first patient. - Yeah. So I think the key thing is you, you know, you have an amazing care team, the best scientists in the world, the best psychedelic minds, and you're in safe hands. And of course, they'd start low, they'd dose low. And, like you say, the good thing about DMT is, it's very safe in terms of it's not toxic. - Yeah. - And, you know, I think that, for me, I've always been fascinated by consciousness and looking at consciousness from multiple angles. So I'm happy to push the boundaries to find out where they are. But I know that what I was doing there was very safe and it obviously made me very intrigued as to how far we can go with these durations, et cetera. - So what have we learned about consciousness? - Well, as I was telling you earlier, one of the big findings from the publications from Chris was that it seems that you are asleep effectively on DMT. It seems like you're in a dream, that the signature of the brain is that you are dreaming. And again, you know, this is one of the, obviously it's very different to dreaming, but for me it's, you know, it's the same when I go into, we'll talk later about, you know. - That's very interesting. - The sacred sites also seem to put you into this trance-like state. You know, I can show you later the brain waves being measured in the King's Chamber and the Great Pyramid, with 10 of us being, you know, being EEG measured and actually seeing that we've got very high delta, looks like we're all asleep while it's completely sober. But the architecture itself is doing something. And again, it's like, what's the connection between dreaming, psychedelics and sacred sites? There seems to be a golden thread between them. - There's also people who are alleged UFO experiencers, they put these helmets on and try to measure that doing EEG on them and they said the same thing. - They said their brains look like they're in a sleep state. - Yeah, very, very strange. So how many times did you do this? - So that DMTX study was five different dosing sessions. - Five different dosing sessions. - Five different day. And again, one point, Chris was like, do you want to come back? We've got an opening. Do you want to come back after two weeks and I was like, definitely not. Because you need the three weeks to integrate what you're learning. And I think that the entities also aren't so happy about you being there too often. Because I've had the message, you know, you're coming back to frequently. You know, we'll happily still do the work on you as if a lot of it seems to be some sort of psychic surgery. They're working on physical elements or they're giving you kind of, it's very moral I find. They're giving you a relationship advice. It's like, you know, you're doing this well, you're not doing so well here. It's kind of like a some sort of mystery school that you're tapping into. And while you're doing it, are you somehow communicating with people in the room? - In the room. - Yeah, the interesting thing about DMTX is that you, you know, you're unlike a five MEO experience where you kind of are like a lot more out of body. You know, it's DMTX. For me, you know, you're, they're asking you questions. Every, I mean, this is part of the problem. They're asking you every two minutes, how intense is it now, Karl? How anxious are you now, Karl? You know, and I'm like, guys, do you, you know, telling me the time effectively by asking me every two minutes and also asking me if I'm anxious, not the ideal kind of settings for a psychedelic experience. So I'm, you know, I'm a subject. So I'm having to give data. And what is interesting and useful about that is, you know, if I've given a rating of 10 out of 10 for intensity, then in the interview directly afterwards, Chris does these micro for nomenological interviews where you are asked to repeat the experience directly after you've had it. So not to remember it, but to go in and have the experience again, to the best of your ability guided by those ratings. - Yeah, it seems like it would be frustrating because all those questions having to interact with the scientists asking you questions, except one foot in the real world and you'd be, wouldn't be like fully enveloped in the DMT experience. - Yeah, it's definitely a double consciousness kind of experience that you're in both. 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And they can learn from us as test subjects, like I'll show you a visualization of the fifth dose. And it's like there's a play pen being constructed around you for you to be observed. And it does feel like you're popping up into their space. And one of the dangers I think of DMTX is that you could end up colonizing that space because they probably tolerate us in these short durations popping into their space and find us kind of not a bit like when you have a spider in your house and you put a glass over the spider to say, look at this before you put it back out in the wild. That's my hunch that there is kind of, I think that there are aliens. And we are also aliens. And I think that, of course, it's like the typical hubris of humans to think that we're unique and that we're the only intelligence. And what I find interesting about AI is that suddenly it's revealing the languages of all these other species. And of course, they're all very conscious. And the whales, for instance, have their own phonetic alphabet. Yeah. Andrew Galamore explained to me, really stuck with me about how like the five senses we have are like brain filters or whatever that keep us away from the rest of it. They're like, they're filtering out everything that's really there so that we can survive in the world. That's right. And then what this is doing is stripping away the five senses we have and exposing. everything to us. Yes. I really, that really makes a lot of sense, but like the problem is how the fuck do you prove that? Well, this is, this is why it's interesting that now Andrew's collaborating with Don Hoffman. We just literally launched the Trace Institute in LA a few days ago. And that is basically an opportunity for us to test Don's theories. And you know, Don's talking about this kind of VR headset that we're all wearing and how space time itself is a construct and it's a construct of consciousness. So he's an idealist. Space time itself is all a construct. Yeah. And and the idea that basically everything's arising from consciousness. So instead of, right. So consciousness is fundamental. Yeah. Exactly. So Annal Seth, for instance, he would say that your brain is producing consciousness. So that's a materialist perspective. And the, you know, the the idealist think that you your, you know, your body is being produced through consciousness. Everything's arising from consciousness. So if we were to talk about and even in the recent launch, you know, Don's saying that, you know, our headset is kind of faulty. And I've done a whole TEDx talk of Oxford talking about the fact that when we look in the mirror, we don't see ourselves as we are. We, you know, the mirror is flipping the image back to front. So when you actually see yourself in a true mirror, which is two mirrors at 90 degree angle, that's when you see yourself as you actually look. Yeah. And you know, it's just like, you know, you can do it. You can mirror it sometimes on a webcam and you'll, you'll actually switch and you actually look like that. Other people see you as you look, but you don't. And also the way you hear, you know, when you suddenly hear yourself, you hear yourself a lot, right? Yeah. When you hear yourself on the recording, it's not as you imagine you hear. Right. So you're in a perceptual locked-in, synced, you're sort of already in a virtual reality. And other people have a, have a, have a better understanding of you in terms of sound and visuals than you do. Right. So it's not today's day and age. Now everyone, you can see yourself on video and on audio 24/7. That's true. Making videos of themselves. That's true. But then a lot of people are getting those jobs because the mirror is their phone and they're holding it at a certain angle. So they get this, you know, it comes back to the Renaissance where we actually decoded spaces linear perspective, whereas actually we see in curve a linear perspective, but all of our cameras, all of our media is all based around linear perspective. So there's a fundamental floor there. So we're kind of locked in to our VR headset as Don says. And as you said with Andrew, we now have the ability with DMT to maybe upgrade the headset and start to actually experience reality in a way that isn't confined to the five senses so that you actually have this kind of new way of testing. And that they went through the whole, all the different tests that we want to do. I lose this in the Caribbean because now we have the opportunity to do DMT X and to bring in people, for instance, there's certain people that get locked out of DMT. I've heard this, you know, and David Luke, for instance, one of my good friends, he did, I think 50 doses of DMT quite soon after each other on the River Ganges and was effectively locked out, he had like an orange screen over his experiences for 20 years, until I think he did 20 years, until he eventually did a study at Imperial and and was unlocked. So what we want to do is a study looking at people that have got the locked locked out syndrome and then people that have maybe never been able to have any experience with DMT, no matter how much they do, they seem to be genetically unable to experience it and then normies. So we'll do a comparison between these three different groups and you know, it'd be great to do a call out to try and understand if there's people out there that have one of these, you know, different predicaments. So how would you upgrade the VR headset? Like if you're talking about our consciousness, you're saying that by the use of DMT therapeutically or something in some, with the use of some sort of protocol, we could increase our consciousness permanently somehow. Well, let me show you another image here. This is from, this is from Andrew as well. This is, this is quite old now in terms of his presentation of it, but this is his vision or what was his vision. I'm not sure because one of the reasons we started talking is because I'm very much in a, in a sort of hyperhuman focus, thinking about the fact that we only live for a thousand months as humans, only a thousand months, that's all we get, but yet we spend a lot of time trying to, how many years is that? 83. Wow. So people don't realize, you know, it's such a brutally short existence and we spend a lot of our times trying to peek beyond the veil, not really exploring actually probably what's the rarest thing, which is to be human, right? So I'm really interested in, you know, how do we understand our potential, our latent potential that we may have atrophied through different, you know, through just basically being on our phones all day long, because one of the crazy charts is that you've got a thousand, thousand months to live, but out of that thousand months, you only have 300 months, free time, and the average person uses 300 months on their fun. Have you seen those calendars they make? That's what I mean. Those are crazy. Yeah. Those are insane. They really give you like a perspective. They really do. And that's the thing with like, you know, people just Netflix themselves to death. So this is DMTX kind of, you know, almost a bit tongue-in-cheek, but you know, Andrews, you know, his vision is that, you know, you're kept in these pods and you have like waste management taken care of. So like, so like, food's coming in through a drip and waste coming out through. Like DMTX. Yeah. Pretty much. And I remember him presenting this at the Tearingham Institute and all the shamans were just looking at each other, getting this guy's absolutely bonkers. And yeah, basically, this is this is transhumanism, 101 for DMTX. Whereas I'm like, let's not do this. Let's like, let's explore DMTX and go in with a particular intention with, you know, bring in specific types of skill sets into these spaces and try and solve mathematical problems, scientific problems, like really bring back information that now with the DMTX experience, and especially I don't think you're a mere meant to stay there though. No. And this is what will happen. We'll start colonizing the space. And then we'll really have problems, I think. We will start colonizing the space. Yeah. Because if you're, like I said before, like I've been told, oh, you're coming back too frequently. Like, don't be, don't be coming back so often. But we'll, we'll, you know, it isn't exchanged. There is some sort of exchange going on. And maybe that will be part of the upgrade that you know, I'm always exploring having gone through these studies, you know, have I been left with not just an altered state, altered traits. You know, because even during the study, there was only 12 of us that did the pilot study. Only four of us ended up doing all five doses. And what I found interesting was that there was, there was some, some, some skills being developed over that short period of time. Like, for instance, I was having pre-cognition. So I actually tapped into what my future mental state would be like six months from then. And I only realized when it actually came to pass that I was actually having this pre-cognition. You know, and so I think that that we can upgrade the headset with DMTX. But only if we do it in a very mindful, ethical, you know, mind-free of what's going on on the other side as well. And really bringing through these sorts of, you know, can we solve scientific problems with this stuff and really look into. Yeah. Well, it's just like dreams, right? We can't really remember dreams after they happen. Right. When you wake up, you have a very good memory of it. Like, when you get up and go to the bathroom, but then like, you know, 10 minutes later, it's totally on. Yeah. And I think that's by design the same way with DMT. Absolutely. I don't think we were meant. I don't think we were meant to, which is why I think it's a great thing to like record it after you do it. Like audio recording. Yeah. But now, if we had, if we could lock those memories in the same way, you know, I can remember having breakfast this morning. I don't think it would be good. I agree. And what's interesting now in, I don't know if you've seen this Luma band, which apparently will create lucid dreaming on demand. Have you ever had any lucid dreams? Oh, I've had lucid dreams. Yeah. Not on purpose, but on accident. No, very rare. I mean, most people only ever experience it once. I had a lucid dream when I was holding a calculator and I was consciously pressing the buttons and I was like, what a waste. Yeah. You know, it could have been flying. But this band, so again, it's the hyperhuman versus transhuman version of lucid dreaming. So lucid dreaming, you can, you can train yourself, reality testing, right? So you do this, like looking at your hand, am I dreaming? Am I dreaming? Am I dreaming? Just looking at your hand over and over again. And then you may end up looking at your hand in a dream. And then you might notice one thing as longer than another. And that means that you're dreaming. And then the key is to not wake up, not, you know, wake up from astonishment because that's when you, you come, you know, you ruin the lucid dream. But imagine if lucid dreaming becomes a button, you know, just like now with the prompting, right? We're just pressing buttons. And that means we can potentially have lucid dreams on demand. And maybe we're not meant to, you know, maybe we are meant to do the training because it's hard. Yeah. You know, I think that there's a lot to be said for forgetting and the importance of forgetting, you know, much like it. I do see all that black mirror episode where it was like two couples rowing. And they were like, you said this and they were like, no, you said this. And then they were like, let's have a look. And because they're recording everything through their contact lenses all day long, and they just, they just rewound the, yeah, there you go. It's just just been launched. So what is this supposed to do? So this is transcranial stimulation whilst you're asleep. So it will know when you're in a REM state and once you're in a REM state it will it will fire a small amount of trans cranial So electricity is basically hitting the left or the right angular gyros and That's then meant to create this like lucid dream like state and of course it's super contentious. I think it's still on pre-order But you know, I know a lot of people in the in the dream science space and this is just like this is again Just the kind of the dystopian Health for for a lot of people that really value What comes through through dreams because it seems like with dreaming. It's like either you're just processing your day Or you are like getting some sort of transmission from somewhere And I think like same with all of this AI stuff where we're either Atrophying the ability to sick to to receive as channels like receive something from somewhere I mean another example is this friend of mine is created this watch that you never look at but you feel it So it vibrates the minutes the hours the seconds, right? So you literally turn time into a sense So you know time and I said to him well, what's the benefit? He says well now I I never burn pancakes because I know time So he knows two minutes. It's not an abstract concept anymore. It's like he knows time So now he doesn't burn pancakes I was like is that really the point of the this very invasive like Again quite dystopian because I was like what happens to flow states because flow states depend on not knowing the time right What happens to exactly what happens to psychedelics when you know time? I and he wanted to give me one of these 50 watches because you know giving them to influencers and I was like I'll give it to some I'll give it to a surrogate to wear it No, it's weird. There's just for it. It happens to me all the time like I'm so reliant on having my watch I feel naked without it really if I go without my watch. Yeah for a couple days. I I Know what time it is there you go like I can just get I could like stop for a second Like I wonder what time it is I would guess and I'll go look at my phone and I'd be like get on within a couple minutes So you're yeah, you've got the and of course it's a human construct and we also you know I'm not only just interested in psychedelics, but cyber delics cyber delics cyber delics. So check out cyber delic nexus This is really the hub of all the different ways we can change consciousness with technology So think of flicker lights if you ever tried like a Roxy ver or a luchir light which induces like an LSD trip just through flickering light So you sit in front of this light with your eyes closed and you start seeing colors that you you know It's the only white light, but you're seeing full kaleidoscopic colors. It's totally wild So binaural beats like mixed reality virtual reality, but also We I worked with the cyborg nest guys and they created a new sense called the north sense, which was something you body-pist It wasn't like fully invasive, but it was like it was body-pist So you would wear this thing and it would vibrate every time you face north so eventually after a certain amount of time You knew you would know where north is right? I'd much like birds know where north is we may have known where north is But we lost that ability maybe through you know the the first maps or you know now nobody knows where anyone is because all We don't know where we are because of GPS right, so we're constantly We're constantly outsourcing that and I think that that is a super interesting way of using technology And there's again a hyperhuman way of doing it, which is you can wear a belt and it will vibrate every tie every you know for six weeks You'll wear this belt and then you remove the belt and then you still have the north sense as opposed to something you have to wear permanently Which it was just the transhuman route About a year ago I got hit with a text about an unpaid toll and then when I paid it it turned out to be a scam And that would have never happened if I had been using cash up and that is one of the primary reasons I now only use cash up Keeping your money safe from fraud deserves to be a priority and cash up treats it that way with security lock Cash up requires a successful face ID and Biometric authentication to access your account It's like your money is protected by your own personal bodyguard even if your phone is lost or stolen Plus if you're about to send money to someone you knew and cash up notices something might be a bit off or you might be falling for a scam It sends you a warning before your money is sent to confirm that everything looks right turn on security lock in your Cash app settings today and pay attention to scam warnings and keep your money safe from fraud learn more at cash dot app slash security Moving your money should be simple, but it should also be safe And that's why I love using cash up new cash up customers can earn ten dollars if they use the codes secure ten in their profile It's sign up and send five dollars to a friend within the first 14 days terms apply cash up is a financial services platform And not a bank banking services provided by cash apps bank partners visit cash dot app slash legal slash podcast For full disclosures people like to push back on Technology and you know AI taking over for humans abilities and you know for everything even like mundane things like remembering how to drive around town Yeah, remembering phone numbers, right? Like I used to really remember Tons of phone numbers. It's not gonna remember like three phone numbers And like where it's going, you know, I had this conversation with Hamilton Morris once when he was explaining to me the difference between like Natural drugs and since synthesized drugs drugs that are synthesized in a lab. Yeah, well If you really think about it even drugs that are created in a lab by a scientist with using beakers and shit like that That is that's technically natural. Yeah, because we are a part of nature and We are using our brains and our technology to create this stuff and it exists on this earth So it really is natural. Well, we just we don't think of it that way. We think of stuff as like as you know invasive or unnatural just because we created it and we used technology to create it. Yeah But if you think about five MEO DMT Which I find one of the most extraordinary chemicals on the planet most of that is actually synthesized through melatonin so it's just a simple chemical reaction to to create five MEO DMT from melatonin and Rick Stressman had a whole chapter on melatonin in his in his in his book and I think yeah Hamilton is You know chemist so he's he's lucky enough to be able to explore these things and explore What do you think about uh, Straussman's view on all this? I think his view is that Basically, when you take psychedelics, it is based on your priming of he thinks it's like bringing out what's buried deep in your psyche and bringing it to fruition in this surreal way consciously. Yeah, I Mean Strasman. I know he's not a fan of five MEO, but I think His oh, yeah, he had a really bad trip on fire. Yeah, I did Michael Pollan actually and I was kind of I was having dinner with him after that He launched his how to change your mind book and I was like you can't like Dismiss this because you had a bad trip and a whole of humanity listens to you and and dismisses this incredibly I mean funnily enough most of the clinical trials are really finding extraordinary results from five like the Beckley Citech work, which is the nasal spray which was the last study at a did it in peril and You know having a nasal Root of administration meant that I had a 90 minute experience 60 minutes of that was a plus 10 on five MEO. Yeah, oh my lord It was unbelievable and you know for me that that Trump's DMT in terms of the way I see it is that we we're here in In the you know third dimension and light is shining upon us When you do DMT or I wasca or Changa it seems light is emitting from objects like you're seeing this hyper hyper real like Like light show from ob like things are coming out from from from people and objects and Entities and when you do five MEO DMT. It's like you become light itself So it feels like we're having relations with light in different dimensions I hate the word dimensions, but it's like we are you know probably all of these things all the time You know when we talk about dreaming. It's like your astral body or your light body Yeah, you know, so it seems like where there are and I know you know like the the Kogi tribe for instance They keep their shamans in the in the caves from birth for nine or 18 years and you know Endogenous DMT seems to produce seems to incubate in the dark Where is it really where is it's all about the light? Yeah, check out the the Kogi. So from the moment they're born They stay in a cave like 18. Yeah, nine or 18 I believe That seems fucking terrible for people for you. Yeah, it seems like you would and They're taught about the world in the dark and then they're on their nights Both of their brought out and said look we told you about the world and here it is as if yeah So be fascinating to study what's going on. Where's this tribe in Columbia? Huh, yeah Here you go. That's wild Wow, so this was my like rudiment rudimentary sketch with Chris Timmerman where I'm like talking about these sort of levels of light And I'm one another bit another really interesting thing from from galimo is that eventually we might we might not need substances at all But just magnets so magnetoreceptors that can turn on and off receptors So you'd wear something like this cap and it would literally turn your receptors on and off and I know with One of my friends Kenneth at Stanford. He's in a study where they're they're using ultrasound to direct ketamine to different parts of the brain So they'll they'll point like an ultrasound into into a specific part of the brain where they want them in to go Yeah, so I'm really fast. I had a job on the podcast. He was saying he was doing that Well, what was that guy's name? Anyways, he had this like ultrasound device that he uses on his temple, and he thinks it's like somehow, he thinks it could be used as a tool to alleviate Alzheimer's and people. - Yeah, I mean, there's so much incredible research coming out in terms of like, you know, even longevity studies that seems to be the case with mushrooms, LSD, even ketamine that seems to be its tangible benefit in terms of lifespan. - Really? - Yeah. Yeah, there's recent papers. I haven't got the references here, but. - How would psychedelics increase lifespan? - That's a great question. That's a great question. - That seems wild. (clears throat) - Yeah, so Strasmon. - Yeah. - His view is that it's basically just pulling out everything that's already in you and like projecting it in some sort of a weird way where, or maybe it's like synthesizing all of these neurons in your brain, like all these sensory neurons in your brain, maybe they're all collapsing into one thing, where people describe DMT as being more real than real, right? So if you're in a dream state and you have this chemical that's sort of like bringing all these neurons and neurotransmitters together to make some super incredibly real experience that you're seeing in this actual visual, fully sensory in every sense of the word way, like the sounds, the smells, the colors, the visuals, you feel it and it's projecting it back to us. I feel like most people would experience something like that for the first time and we would just automatically put so much meaning to something like that, right? Instead of like looking at it as like what is actually technically happening right there in the brain, maybe what's happening is like we're ascribing all this meaning to it. And that when you add on all the contextual layer of psychedelics in our culture, right? What everyone knows about psychedelics, anyone who's learned anything about psychedelics they know, it's like, okay, this is what happens. We see beings, we see little elves, it's geometric patterns, it dissolves the ego, we can do this, this and this. So maybe this is having some cascading effect because that's like what we're expecting when we go into it. And if you gave somebody that was completely outside of our culture that was not indoctrinated into any of this stuff that we know about psychedelics, someone some tribe, maybe some like uncontacted tribe gave it to him and see what happened to them, maybe it wouldn't be the same thing. And on top of that, they did that study with psilocybin at the Johns Hopkins Institute where they gave the religious professionals a bunch of psilocybin to see what would happen to them, what their experience would be. And every single one of their experience was mapped by their religious beliefs. - Yeah, which is very interesting. - Yeah, I mean, I think like dreams, you're either processing your world view, you're trying to come to terms with whatever trauma, I mean, although I think it's very much drug dependent, right, so if you were to do eboga or I began, it seems to you have a lot of people have a life review where you're experiencing your life even from pre-birth. I don't know, a lot of people that have done eboga and they've got up to the age of six where they've been shown everything they've ever done wrong. You know, and then they may do eboga again, like years later and they start from age six as if they've processed that part of their lives and now they move through the life review. So it's, you know, I mean, I've been very lucky to have a life review where I experienced my entire life in reverse in episodic chunks. - On what? - Combination of various things, but it was an incredible insight into death. 'Cause maybe in death we have this kind of, 'cause I feel like we're in a lab, right, we're in a learning lab where we are wanting to really maximize our learning. And I think death, my hunch is death is a massive expansion of consciousness, not a restriction or an elimination. And in this experience I basically was able to leave my body in the, so I was already in a double consciousness. So I mean, my consciousness now, like I'm talking to you, and then I was in my consciousness in the life review going back in time, in episodic chunks. It was completely detailed. - Wow. - And what was amazing was that I was able to leave my body partly because I had an out of body at 27, which is the whole other story. And I was able to, I decided to go into a table and became wood consciousness. So I was in a triple consciousness. And then I realized, well, maybe I can go into other people. So I went into another person I was having their experience of me and myself at the same time. And I think that's probably what calmer is that you think you get away with stuff in life, but actually most likely you will experience what you've done to somebody as then, and you at the same time. So I think my hunch is that we are trapped in a point of view, like we all feel like we're in this kind of locked-in point of view state. And that's why psychedelics can give you a kind of holiday from the surface, I would just like you would say. But in the death state, you are now given privy access, field of view access, where you can enter anything in the scene, and it can be any kind of, you know, animal, you know, anything in the scene. Books, I'd read, I could become the authors, films that I'd been in, I could become all the actors, but I had to have lived it in order to have access. So it made me realize, be careful who you spend your time with, and also be careful where you go, because recently I went to Antarctica and the Amazon because I need to have those spaces in the life of you in order to access all the things in those spaces. So it's almost like there's no, you know, there's no time limitations. It's like your life becomes a product where you can explore it from them, you know, from the learning perspective. And I think that's my hunch is to through this, and life reviews are quite common. Like a lot of people have these life reviews, whether it's induced through a psychedelic or near death experience, but it is. - I had it one time free diving when I almost, I was free diving in a cave and I couldn't find an exit. And I had like a full rewind of my whole life. - Really? - Yeah, it must have been, in reality, it probably only lasted 10 seconds, but it felt like hours. - Yeah, it was crazy. - I had my entire life at that point, I was 40, and it went, it was an hour in real time, but it was 40 years from me perception. And it makes me think of those people that go to sleep and then they have a dream, and they dream that they're in somebody else's life for like a year. So they'll have the same, you know, they'll live their life in this dream, they'll have their family, they'll have their wake up, and it'll just be a night, that they've had this one year of experience. And then the next night they go to sleep again and have another year. - Somebody was telling us a story the other day about Salvia, Devonora, but I believe. - Yeah, exactly, I was gonna tell you, yeah. - And they were saying that, like, they had to live somebody's like an entire life. - Yeah. - It only lasted maybe 10 minutes, but it felt like a fucking eternity, and it was like torture for them. - Absolutely. - And then when they got out of the trip, they were missing the people and the places that they went in that life, and they were kind of depressed because they felt like those people had died, and they were going through actual trauma from it. - Yeah, yeah. No, exactly. - What the fuck, dude? - Yeah, and of course it's like, you know, choose your own adventure, right? I mean, it's really, you've got to be careful, like, you know, I'm very careful about what I let in in terms of like, I don't tend to watch horror films, I don't, because it tends to sit in your subconscious and it's a storehouse. And you know, I'm very conscious about like, what I'm experiencing. So I'm driving my point of view to access the field of view, much like my journaling practice. So I've been writing a journal for my entire life. I don't know if you write a journal, but it's an incredible practice, again, very psychedelic, because I'm able to jump out of point of view and go into field of view. So I can go into the whole, like, let me just show you this. So I can go into the whole space and explore it from a, you know, from this kind of like field of view perspective. And what's amazing is that I ended up really going into, going to town with this. So this is the structure. So I have three different levels to the journal. So I write content, what I did. And that's all written in a word document. And that's the doing aspect. Then what I felt is captured through video mostly. That's context, so that's the feeling element. And then notebooks is all like written by hand. And again, the hyperhuman thing is all about whole brain activity. So whole brain activity is like playing an instrument, singing, writing, all of these things that we're losing because of the way we're using technology. But what I find interesting about having this database now of like almost 40 years of data is that I've got thinking, feeling, doing, which is actually the perfect data set for an AI. Well, I'm not going to go there. But, you know, I think what's interesting is that, you know, as Kirchegard says, life must be lived forwards, but can only be understood backwards. So unless you have a trace of what you've done, and of course we have our memories, but I can do things with this diary where I can take cross sections to it. So I look into this day last year and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before. And get 40 different me's communicating again. And wisdom is gained by taking a higher order perspective on your perspective. And it's all about this kind of sense-making and understanding your life as a whole. And it's like, you know, you actually don't want to be this kind of like middle of the road character. You want to have the extraordinary. stream highs and the extreme lows, 'cause that's what makes you you, the whole character. So I can actually say if I've been in a relationship for a year, I can read that whole relationship in an afternoon and get suddenly get a bird's eye view over that relationship and see patterns start to emerge. I'd never, never notice in real time. - Right, that you could have a blind spot too. - Yeah, and it's, you know, I live my life in order to write my diary and I write my diary in order to live my life. So it forces me to get new material for the body of work. I have to maximize each day. And it also reveals the spiral. Like we think we're going in a linear sort of evolution, but actually we're moving through this kind of spiral way. Everything's repeated, everything's revisited until you kind of resolve it. And I love this line from Zhijek. We don't really want to get what we think we want. You know, that whole thing that we live in, and live in this virtual reality, this living of constant expectation. Oh, if I get here, this will be, and of course, for me presence is longevity. You know, how do we, how do we not live in prediction mode? 'Cause like, that's why I love to travel. 'Cause your brain is predicting everything. And if you stay in the same routine all day long, stay at home doing the same stuff, your brain never comes online. It's only when you're traveling that you don't know what's coming around. - It's designed to conserve energy. - Yeah, exactly. It's designed to survive, designed to conserve energy. So you don't actually come online unless you are doing this kind of practice where you are maximizing your day, going out and talking to strangers, like I don't have new material. - Right, right, right. - It isn't the same as before. - Yeah, novelty is key. And I think that this, this kind of journaling practice, is again, upgrading the headset. Because I have this kind of super, 'cause I lose perspective like everyone twice a day. But suddenly I can be like, okay, now let's look at the month. And then I can see how I actually am doing shit loads of stuff that's really, really good and really positive. And it's like, so this is kind of a psychedelic trip. And one of my other favorite lines is this one, I don't know if you've heard this Instagram channel, Healing from Healing from my friend Adam. So you know, there's so much healing going on. We're completely overwhelmed with this kind of like, and again, in the psychedelic trip, it's like, what is the trauma that's gonna be revisited? And like, but I think if we focus so much on our childhood traumas and everything that's broken about us, we'll be broken, you know, that's gonna be the basis of our, and I think what we need to do is overcome. Not that it's like, not important to heal, but it's like if you're gonna focus all day long on healing, it's kind of, you're missing the point of this 1,000 months brutal, brutally short, like meat space that is here to be enjoyed and explored and shared. And you know, that's a very good point. Yeah, the putting it in the perspective of time and 1,000 months really, really puts it all into it. It really like makes you realize like, I don't want to be focusing on bullshit anymore. Like focus on the things that you want to focus on. Yeah, and the things that make you happy and the people around you have 100%. Have you ever tried doing research for something you want to buy online and before you know it, you got 250 tabs open and your computer is about to short circuit? That was me when we were recently looking for new office chairs. One site says the chairs are perfect. The other site says they destroy your back. And then you run into this whole phenomena of fake reviews. And before I know it, I'm comparing foam density like I work in a furniture lab. But now I only use dupe.com's research for me tool. You just type in what you're searching for, comfortable office chair for a long recording day, and dupe does the research for you in just minutes. It filters through real sources, compares options, breaks down features, specs, and pricing, and gives you a straightforward answer on what to buy and why. And my favorite part, it tells you what not to buy, which saves you from making an expensive mistake. So instead of wasting your whole day, use dupe and be prepared to save yourself a ton of time and money. Just go to dupe.com and tell them what you're looking to buy. That's dupe.com to finally feel confident about what to buy. - Well, we're gonna look at your fifth dose. - We're gonna look at, yeah, they're going back to the DMTX. - Yep. - And we've got a nice video that I think you're gonna show. - Oh, yes, that's so, let me-- - Okay, so explain what you did here. Did you record yourself? - This is actually soon to be released. Let me see if I can get to it there it is. DMTX.ai, so that's the web address. And it's a collaboration between New Nautics, Josie and Andrew. And what we're seeing here is basically a prompt from the fifth dose of the DMTX experience for me, which is the most profound one, by far, and yeah, once I'll tell you. - How did you create the prompt? - So it's an engine, basically, that Josie has created. And we will launch it for use by anyone who wants to visualize their trips, basically. - So what do you do? You record yourself while you're tripping or what? - No, this is just, obviously, yeah. If you wanna have a good, like you were doing with your dreams, like trying voice recorders, you worked up. So I would always recommend voice recording after trips. - Yes. - Just 'cause it's so much easier than, you know, although I do love writing by hand, if the quickness of a voice record, and then you could turn that voice record into a sort of, you know, quite a condensed prompt, which then would feed into this. - Got it. - Then this creates the-- - And this will recreate your experience. - This will recreate your trip, yeah. So this was your final DMTX experience. - Yeah, this was the Kundalini rush at the beginning of the experience, which I always get with DMT, sort of from the base of the spine, and then you enter a space where it's like you're made of this mesh, this orange, you know, sort of triangular mesh, and then it's a play pen, like this thing forms a play pen where the entities get to watch you, just like I said about the spider, and then I enter a space of like interfaces, which is, you know, maybe partly, as you were saying, that I'm processing the fact that I'm a computer scientist, and I'm always like staring at screens, and then I'm getting this kind of gooey interface where like one interface, following another interface, following another interface, and it's all just incredibly complicated. And then I get this kind of reward from this octopus who hands me a key, and I have to reach out at 270 degrees in the room to grab this thing. And that seems to cause this alien takeover of the space, which then leads to the ultimate kind of revelation for me, which is that I'm staring at this white disc, which is like the five MEO unity space. And it's, 'cause I've always been asking, what is causing the unity that you experience when you, you know, when you have a non-jewel experience and everything becomes like no longer subject, object relationship, everything's one thing, and normally it's light, so you know, the five of me at Breakthrough is like, you become light itself. And I've always like quite kind of not in a room way. - I feel like there's different ways people could explain this. Like the way I describe this is like, my soul being ejected from my body, where you like, you leave back the material world behind you. Is that, 'cause someone-- - I, you know, it's an interesting one. I always feel as if I'm still embodied on a five experience, but it's very much the body has become part of the light. You know, and I'm always asking, what's producing this? 'Cause it feels like it's the ultimate reality, right? That you're, you know, you've, you've, you've, I often think when I've done a five experience that I'm not gonna come back, that I've kind of, everything's gone up with me. It's like the universe has completed itself. But then of course you float back into your human experience and you're like, wow, like that was utterly ridiculous. And then you're kind of like bridging God with the human experience. And you kind of know that that's what you are also. But I've always asked, what's beyond the white room? Like what's creating this non-jewel space? And I felt like the DMTX experience, bridged the DMT experience with the five MEO experience, 'cause that white disc, it was quite speeded up. But that white disc was at the bottom of my bed. Imagine I'm cannulated up. I've got like blood going in one arm. I've got a DMT blood coming out of this arm. DMT going in this arm. And I'm seeing this white disc and I'm like shuffling down the bed, sort of like trying to get in the hole. I must have looked hilarious with the team looking at me. But of course I'm just like seeing this white hole, which looks like the unity experience, but I'm away from it, I'm far away from it. So I have this kind of experience of it cracking open. And as it cracks open, instead of it revealing like a duality again, it reveals a plurality of unities. As if to say there's not just our non-jewel experience, but there's a multitude of unities that you're not privy to, but it still exists. And maybe it's some sort of evidence of a multiverse. - That's bonkers. - It was an extraordinary thing because I would always ask the question, that's when I got the key. As if to say we're gonna show you something that you don't normally get access to. And that's why I'm excited about taking these studies to the Caribbean where we can actually do these studies in nature, 'cause if you think again about the context, you're doing these things in a hospital ward where you associate hospitals with death, dying, disease, and then you're actually trying to trip in that context. Of course, you're not gonna get optimal results. And they do their best to try and pimp out the rum, and maybe look like you're on the beach or whatever. Now we can actually go to the Caribbean, and we can imagine the scene. So you have a light breakfast where you go out snorkeling on the barrier reef, then you come back and you have a like a three-hour, lonely, loamy massage. And then you go into your DMT experience, which can be kind of cute. You rated, so you know, you can actually increase the dose whilst you're in the trip. So when you do Iowaska, which is around 20% DMT, now you're taking 100% DMT, but you can go in in baby steps, so you could start at like three or four milligrams and just get your toe in the water and say, okay, I'm now at least in the space. And then you can do your first bowlers and get a launch. And then, you know, can be pulled out of it quite rapidly because it's a curatable trip because it's going continuously in your arm. So I really like that idea of, you know, this kind of, you know, it's much more curatable as a journey and therefore, and potentially like, I would love to see an opportunity because one of the things I would love to do during is to draw what I'm experiencing, because I'm always seeing this language at the core of my vision, which is holographic, right? It's like, I can walk around it. And it's persistent. You always get these three motifs in a DMT trip. The first one is I see a signer at the corner of my vision, which is like, you're doing, well, do more, do more, take more DMT. And then it's like, you've done enough DMT. And it's always like a female presence. Imagine like the normal signer on your TV is saying, you know, doing sign language. This is always there. And then at the core of my DMT trip, I'm seeing this language that looks, it's hieroglyphic, it's modern and ancient at the same time. I want to draw it, you know, and I've never been in a clinical study where they let you take off the blindfold and actually just sit there and have your, you know, see what you're seeing in your. Oh, you're wearing a blindfold? Always. Yeah. Interesting. That's generally what happens in a clinical trial. You're very rarely given the opportunity or the freedom to actually like, you know. Have you tried the thing with the laser, where you see the code in the laser? Not yet, have you? I've tried it. Yeah. How did you go? I saw a bunch of dicks. I saw 20 trillion dicks flying through the laser at me. There you go. The first time I saw, the first time I did it, I saw something in there where it was like a bunch of gears spinning. And then I could see code look kind of like Sanskrit, like the shit from Lord of the Rings. And then I did it again, like a third time, like in the same setting. And then the final time I saw it, it was like infinite dicks flying at me. And I thought maybe that was like them telling me to fuck off and stuff. Probably, yeah. I really like that. That's it. It was hilarious. Like, yeah, get the fuck off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I think what's interesting is, like, because we're doing this, this project in the Caribbean, eluses mind.com. And it's basically, you know, Dan Andrews involved as well. And what's interesting about it is that, like I said, 78% of people are seeing entities. But not just entities, but the children of entities. Hmm. They're being introduced to their children, you know? It's like really getting completely bizarre, like in terms of, like I said, these curateable trips, where people are going in. On the intravenous DMT. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that what's interesting is the, you know, it's the largest legal DMTX project in the world right now. We've put probably 50 people through the protocol and we're, you know, we're doing research. It's kind of seamless research in the sense that we don't want people to feel like they're research participants because they are like, you know, they're there to explore, you know, their own consciousness. You know, a lot of the time that these things in a clinical setting are kind of imposed upon you that you will, you will follow the protocol and you don't have much say in like, in what, what, anybody who does the study. Has there been any participants who have never done psychedelics before? Yeah. Really. Yeah. Which is a pretty hardcore like thing. I mean, I've also done, again, in the Netherlands where I've been to these silawasca experiences and the ice breaker on a Friday night as you turn up at this, at this very beautiful like location and a chateau or whatever. And the first thing you try is five Mio DMT. No. In front of everyone else. So you're sitting there with maybe 15 other people and you, maybe your first ever drug experience is five Mio. And depending on how well you do is then deciding your dose of your silawasca for the main event on the Saturday. God, it's so crazy, man. It really is. But I think, yeah, it's fascinating that we now have this, you know, this ability to, to do a plug and play model, which is kind of my role there. I'm kind of, I've gone from this idea of, you know, theorizing what context engineering looks like. How do we create the perfect pre-context and the post-context and again, with psychedelics, it's like, you know, some of these psychedelic experiences are just as powerful as a psychedelic and you need to be, the space needs to be held. And the space needs to be designed before and after for real integration because I think one of the big problems with altered states is that it's all about just give me the next peak experience, give me the next peak experience, nobody's integrating anything. Right. And it's all about, it's like epiphany porn. You know, you get, you get all these epiphanies and you don't do anything with them. You know, there's no kind of like, you know, where's your vitamin G? Have you, have you been grateful for these insights that you've been given? Have you done anything with them or you just onto the next one? So I'm really interested in this idea of altered states curating altered traits. Right. What are altered traits actually look like? What behaviors do we want to, to garden, you know? And there's also another problem with it is there's also evangelists in the psychedelic space. There's people that think psychedelics are the answer to fucking everything and people that want to monetize it to, to the end degree and, you know, not including, but not limited to the fucking church. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the whole magic bullet idea is a really dangerous one. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's not, it's definitely not for everyone to, there was people that definitely were not meant to do this stuff. Yeah. And especially not habitually. Yeah. And on a normal basis. But like, you know, it's like the people that get in, some people that get into this stuff, they just become like the psychedelic door knockers where they're just trying to push it on to everyone. It's the panacea for everything. It could cure, you know, it's going to cure every disease. It's going to also, you know, fix religion, it's going to bring back Jesus. You know, it's just, it's just never ending. And, you know, on top of that, it's the obvious stuff where you have a huge corporation is trying to monetize it and trying to patent it. And, you know, you even see these things with like the, you know, the eye-beginned research that's happening right now. Yeah. And trying to like push it through the FDA, which is like, you know, by and large, yeah, is that a good thing? If it's done the right way of hell, yeah, it's a good thing way better than, you know, pushing pharmaceutical drugs on people that are, you know, causing people to die and, you know, go crazy. But like when you realize and you look behind the curtain and you see like all like the, the billion dollar corporations that are also tied to pharma that are like positioned in the perfect way and then are already have the patents and see how they're like locked in on this, they're going to make billions of dollars and they're going to do whatever they're going to, not that, not that making money is bad. Yeah. I'm just saying like there's a pattern and there's a huge system behind all of this stuff that is going to capitalize anything that gets regulated, anything that becomes normal is going to get like hyper systemized and it's going to be, they're going to take advantage of it and they're going to just make tons of money off it, you know. I mean, I'm very lucky because I've, as a, as a participant on the Imperial trial because I had the knowledge about how to improve the protocols. You know, Egan phoned me up on Christmas and it's like, I'd love you to come to, to join us at new Nordics as a director and what I love about the not-for-profit approach is that it's like, what can these things really do? Like what is the, you know, what is the real setty of the mind? Like, you know, setty is like something somebody donated $300 million to like searching radio signals externally. Right. But what about what's going on internally when we have this much cheaper way of exploring our own consciousness and yeah, maybe I can just talk you through some of the, some of the missions that we got going on because I think that it's like, by the way, is there anyone ever like, during a DMT trip where two people have done it in the same room together as they were never reported like, sharing the space together? It's a good question. I know hyperspectral scan is good, no, it's hyperspectral, hypersomething at Imperial where they had two people going in at the same time. I don't think that's been published yet. You should get Chris Timmerman on and explore that. We're going to show us some. Yeah. So this is a new Nordics, so these are some of the missions at the moment already mentioned the work with Hoffman, so Andrew and Hoffman, there's a video coming out of the launch of the Trace Institute and like I said, endogenous DMT is very interesting. Yeah. And we were also doing a study with the University of Florida where there's this peptide that may be the, the break pedal of DMT naturally occurring. Right. And if we can actually start to, yeah, explore what's going on. What's the new steam? Who's studying this again? For gentlemen, then we had our own Chris McCurdy. Chris McCurdy. Yeah. Chris McCurdy. Yeah. If you want to show the little Chris McCurdy, Steve. Oh, yeah. He came in. So he thinks that Alzheimer's, this could be something, or not Alzheimer's, schizophrenia. This could be studied for schizophrenia, that if they, if they're break pedal to endogenous DMT is broken, they may be just beginning too much endogenous DMT, they could be driving them crazy. Again, it's like, what's the hyperhuman way of doing this and what's the transhuman way? Because it's like you say, if people are constantly like getting too much of something, it's never done. It's a normally a good thing, but we've got Andrew Gallimaud talking through that study with the UF. If you can play it, otherwise I'll move on to the next one. All right, gotcha. We've known since the 1950s that DMT is present in the human body and is almost certainly produced by the human brain, but we still know next to nothing about how it's controlled or regulated. But in the 1970s an important paper was published, but which was subsequently ignored for the next half a century. This paper showed that in mammalian brain, first in rabbits and then in humans, cerebrospinal fluid, there was a peptide. This peptide worked to suppress endogenous DMT production by inhibiting the key enzyme in endogenous DMT production in Doletholamine, methyl transferase, or INNT. Unfortunately, this paper failed to completely characterize this peptide, so we know nothing about this peptide beyond the fact that it exists and that it regulates endogenous DMT productions. What we would like to do is to complete this work to properly isolate and characterize this peptide and increase our understanding of how it plugs into the system that regulates endogenous DMT production. Very interesting. So we're quite a bit of a way into that. I can't tell you too much about how that's going, but so you've seen the DMTX AI one. Yeah, it's in everything, right? It's in every animal. Yeah, absolutely. That's insane. So if you just bring up the screen again, I'll talk you through some of these other ones. The DMTX AI is the visualizer, so that will become available soon. We're wanting to do this study with the lockout effect, so people that have been locked out of DMT please get in touch. And then the archaeological stuff, so we're not just looking at psychedelics. We're also looking at, let me see if I can bring this one up. This, so we talked a little bit about the second's finks. So what's fascinating about Egypt, and I go to Egypt with friends, and I take people on these tours where we go underneath the Giza Plateau, we go to sites that you don't normally get access to. And Filippo Bondi, who I connected with recently, has obviously identified potentially the second's finks. But we're working with him to combine his SAR data with our hyperspectral data. So we've just done a whole scan, new nautics have done a whole scan of the Giza Plateau. So SAR data seems to reveal these varied structures, roads, etc. But hyperspectral data detects subtle soil chemistry changes, crop marks, and associated human activity. So if there is a second's finks, maybe we will be able to help corroborate that. And one of the other things was the this website that will be launched soon, which enables anyone in the community to point this satellite. So unlike Filippo with the SAR data, which he's just buying from databases that exist, this is actually the SAR data that he's buying, so the SAR data, he's not gathering that from a satellite, I believe, he's actually, this came up on one of your recent podcasts, that it's a database of SAR data that already exists that you can purchase. So you can buy SAR data from specific parts of the world. But what we're doing here is gathering hyperspectral data from a satellite where we can point to anywhere we want. And considering all the mysteries around Egypt, one of the things that we know is that they don't necessarily want people digging into these mysteries, but they really can't stop satellites looking into these sites. So we're really interested in opening up the space, and people that think there may be stuff buried somewhere, whether it's pyramids or because even in Egypt, I think there's something crazy like the massive amounts of stuff still under the sand. So tell me more about the Sphinx, I don't know much about the second Sphinx, I saw it, I saw it on social media, but I never actually looked at it. How did he discover this? So again, with the SAR data, he's discovered it. Can you find, or did you? Yeah, see if you can look up, see what you can find about Filippo Beyonde's second Sphinx, and we can just sort of like hash it out a lot. Yeah, we can see very sort of rudimentary where it's facing. But when you actually go into the Sphinx, in the pause of the Sphinx, you can see on the pillar that's in the middle of the Sphinx, there's two of them. There's two Sphinxes. So it seems to be ones about welcoming the sun and ones about the sun going down. Interesting. But I did see the imagery of what it looks like, and it does look the right sort of size, it's covered in sand and debris. But one amazing thing, if there is indeed a second Sphinx. Yeah, that would be insane. So he found this with the satellite, at the synthetic amateur radar star. That's right, supposedly. And of course, it's all conjecture, much like what's going underneath the pyramids. And I know that until this stuff's peer reviewed, then it's all just hearsay. But to be fair to Filippo, he did scan the Azara shaft, and the Azara shaft was scanned without him actually going there, from just from the SAR data, because I take groups down there twice a year. And I know there's three levels to it, and I know where the bottom is, but in his scans, there is three more levels. So that gives me hope that what he's doing is spot on. Okay, from the Miami Herald of all publications, viral claims of his seconds Sphinx at Giza, our false, of course, archaeologists say their false. So does it have a link to like, try to find the original source of how Filippo, like what Filippo said? Did he include any imagery? Did he include any of the SAR data? Maybe it was an interview. Maybe he was just like an off the cuff statement that he said. He did a full, a full, well, exclusive this event in Portugal. I don't think it's been released yet, but he did go into a lot more detail in terms of his history and why he's a bit of a voice in the scene where he's using this in his professional day life. But the positioning of it seems to be very interesting in terms of the maths anyway. Yeah, the thing about the giant shafts below the pyramid, which I'm probably just not smart enough to understand how this stuff works. But if you look at the raw data and then you look at the 3D renderings that he came up with, it's like, whoa, how did you come up with this out of this? And then if you also look at the scan they did of the Coffrey pyramid, it shows two giant king's chamber size chambers in the center of the Coffrey. And we know for a fact that those are there. So you're getting false positives on certain things. And anyways, I had Jeffrey Dramon, he explained it all. Yeah, really beautifully. You also said you were scanning some other ancient sites or something like this? Yeah, my first job. I can show you this. This is the Palace of Darius in Persepolis. This was the, yeah, I was in the midst of the dot com burst. I don't know if you remember that end of the, you're probably not old enough, but end of the 90s and 2000. So I was doing a computer science degree and you know, learning Java programming and then suddenly because I had an art history background, I was, I was able to jump into into doing this, this project, which is reconstructing the Palace of Darius in Persepolis. And where is this palace? This is in Iran. And this is what it looks like, like what it looked like. And it's very different to Egypt and what I find fascinating about it is that yeah, rather than depicting warfare and conquest, it's much more focused on dignity, harmony, and legitimate rule. And I got in a taxi with a, with an Iranian and he was telling me about, you know, in Persia, the, the king was well loved and, you know, you could sit and consider him, your dad and when this is all just very, you know, probably a lot of hearsay. But Alexander, the great Walt Stin and destroyed this site when it was pretty brand new and burnt it to the ground. But the, the emburs protected so much of the foundations as you can see in that, in that last shot. But that's what's still standing today. That's what's still standing today. I don't know how it is after the, after the Iranian war, hopefully nothing worse, but, but huge, huge site. It was only used for ceremonial purposes and, you know, people would come to see specific, you know, the light-hitting specific structures. But this is the smallest part of the structure. And what I like about it is that it's all about the thresholds. As you move through the space, it's all to do with like changing perception. And so, yeah, you know, just extraordinary sight to, to have been working on. But then I did Sistarshan Abbey's in Yorkshire. So I spent seven years reconstructing ancient buildings around the world. And I was very blessed to, to really explore, like, to still have an academic role. Like it was all research projects. But to be able to spend so much time looking at these sites and lots of them are full of sacred geometry. And what was a sort of side effect of building all these things, even though I'm building them on a 2D screen there, 3D structures, was that I started to generate memory palaces, you know, about memory palaces. So what was amazing is that I started to place my PhD. Because I built this, this is like Fountain's Abbey. This is the reconstruction, as you You can see in the in the in-set image there, but. - It's an ancient Greek idea, right? - Yeah, so, exactly, so it's this idea that you would have a seven hour speech that you would then map into an amphitheatological space. - Yeah, but in your head. So you would map it into a virtual piece of architecture, and then in order to trigger the seven hour speech, you just had to walk through this memory palace to trigger your whole seven hour speech. So it's very interesting. What did they have that we lost? What could we regain if we start to revisit memory palaces because potentially I know a lot of people are already wearing glasses where we may get away from the tiny little bits of real estate on our screen, and then we're back in the world because the whole of your 180 degree field of view becomes the kind of the basic interface. - Well, it is very interesting because even when I'm listening to audio books on tape in my car when I'm driving, well, it could be Monday and I'm listening to an audio book in my car and I'll be driving past a certain area. And then Friday, I'll be driving past it which is music playing. And I will remember the exact part of that book that I was listening to when I drive past like that house or that building. It's very interesting. And the idea the memory palace came from this ancient Greek guy who was in a palace that collapsed. - That's right. - And then he had to go around the whole palace and he was like trying to remember visually who was sitting where. So he could figure out where they were and try to rescue them out of there. - Yeah. - And now these memory athletes who compete in these memory competitions, this is what they do. - Yeah. - They go to a physical place and like a, just for example, say a house or whatever. And they'll say, okay, I gotta remember this thing. Well, part one is gonna be the mailbox. So I'm gonna associate this crazy visual imagery of like a weeping coyote. And that's gonna somehow remind me about this page about something, right? And that's gonna unlock the memory. So you start at the beginning. The beginning is at the mailbox of the house and you associate that with something else, right? And it's the same thing as you move throughout the house, the front door. You associate something else with the front door. - What about the associations? - It's crazy at how it works. - And the more vivid the association, the more likely it is to work. - Yeah, I had this guy who's a memory champion on the podcast and he said every time he reads a book, he reads the physical book and he reads it in a new physical location. So it's easy for him to recall the book 'cause he remembers where he was during that time and what he was doing. - I mean, I know like somebody was gaming and it was a Venice. They were in, they were gaming some sort of, some sort of game about Venice. And they got robbed in Venice. But because this game was like an accurate street map of the gate of Venice, they managed to catch the thief because they knew the streets even though they'd never been there. - Oh wow. - So they're, you know, and I did a TEDx talk about this called an ecology for the reenchantment of life and it was all about the side effects of doing all this 3D modeling. Like for instance, I became a better driver 'cause I could see further down the road. So it done something to my peripheral vision where I was able to sort of expand my vision. So I could sort of see further because I'm building these huge structures. - Even though I'm building them on 2D modeling programs. - Just, and this was early 2000s. I was using 3D Max and CAD. So it really had an impact on my consciousness doing 3D modeling. And I would encourage everyone, not just a journal, but get on with some building of memory palaces and you have to do it yourself. It's not something you can like plet, you know, generally if you're going through somebody else's game or whatever, it doesn't tend to stick 'cause it's got to be something that you're building. - So you're saying by building these 3D models of real places. - Yeah, reconstructions. - When you're actually there in real life, you're able to see. - Even, no, no, just side effects of building anything large in a 3D space meant that in real life, I was able to see more depth. - Whoa. - Yeah. - It was just crazy. And it was like very obvious. Like it did some sort of like neuroplasticity thing to your vision by doing some other sort of task that maybe like solidified the three dimensional depth of things in like a different language into your brain. - Yeah, exactly. - That's wild. - What is this? - Oh my gosh. All right, so you found it. - I found a difficult one and an easy one. - All right. - Fantastic. - So his claim was made on some science journal. - Is your mic going by the way? - Your mic's on? - Yes, it is. - So his claim was made on the science journal. You can see Filippo right there. And it's like hella long and this is, it's just got a bunch of stuff with math. Kind of undesirable. However, he made his claim officially, I mean, beyond that. - Usually there's a summary. - Oh yeah. - Go back to the top. If you go to the top, there should be a summary under abstract. There you go. All right, it says a problem with synthetic aperture radar is that due to the poor penetrating action of electromagnetic waves inside solid bodies, the capacity to observe inside distributed targets is precluded. Under these conditions, imaging action is provided only on the surface of the distributed targets. The present work describes an imaging method based on the analysis of micro movements in the canoom kufu pyramid, which are usually generated by background seismic waves. The obtained result proved to be very promising as high resolution, full 3D tomographic imaging of the pyramid interior and subsurface was achieved. The kufu pyramid becomes transparent when observed in the micro movement domain. Based on this novelty, we have completely reconstructed internal objects observing the measuring, observing and measuring structures that have been discovered before. The experimental results are estimated by processing series of SAR images from second generation Italian Cosmos Gaimeds satellite system. Determining the effect. Okay, yeah, this is basically how it works. - Right. - What's he saying about the Sphinx? - He breaks it all down and Matt Bell's podcast. - Okay. - Oh, does he? - So this is where he said it for the first time? - Yes. And he's got a whole chunk here describing it. - Oh, there's the image that you've shown. - Yeah. - Interesting. - Or you can read this. - Yeah, but okay, do a command F on that paper and type in Sphinx. - Okay. Sphinx. - Zero. - Bullshit. - Okay. (laughing) - It'd be interesting because if it's buried, why would it be a different plane than the one that's on top of the ground right now that's been excavated already? - Yeah. - You know, why would it be that much lower? - Yeah, it's a great question. Shame I haven't got the images from his deck, but he does show. - I'd be really curious to find out. - Mm, me too, me too. - Well, Jeffrey Drum told me was that they were like super pissed off that he did that. - You really? - With the Sphinx. - The people that, no, not the second, with what he did was finding those shafts that are allegedly underneath the pyramids was because he did that and published it without ever talking to anyone in the-- - Yeah, that's crazy. - In the Egyptian antiquities department or whatever they call it, they felt like super salty. And Jeffrey was saying that the people that he talks to there were like, "That guy's never gonna touch another grain "of sand in the geese at desert." - Mm, well, which is silly. - Yeah. - But, you know, it is what it is. - It is what it is. - He's making some wild claims, for sure. - Definitely, but he's such a lovely chap. - Yeah, he seems like him. And he seems very open to push back, and he seems open to debate as well. So, and he's not the kind of guy who talks like, you know, this is absolute truth. You know, he's like, he seems like he's being fair about it. - Have you ever opened your fridge and blankly stared into it for five minutes, suddenly realizing you have nothing to eat? That no longer happens to me now that I'm using butcher box. Butcher box delivers 100% grass-fed beef, organic chicken, wild-caught seafood, and more. All source to standards they can actually tell you about. They've actually done the research and made the sourcing decisions, so all you have to do is decide what's for dinner. It's honestly made healthy eating easier for me, because I always know I've got high-quality protein in the freezer ready to go. And when I'm hosting people doing a cookout or just trying not to order takeout again, it saves me a trip to the store and a lot of last-minute scrambling. I keep a few of my go-to stocked at all times, from ground beef, chicken breasts, and seafood. So, when I'm looking for something last-minute, I'm not left scrambling because I got the real deal, ready to go. It just makes the healthy choice, the easy choice. If you're looking for an easier way to get great meals on the table, give butcher box a try. Go to butcherbox.com/danny to get $20 off your first box, plus your choice of free ground beef for life or free chicken thighs or top sirloin in every box for a year, with free shipping always. That's b-u-t-c-e-r-b-o-x.com/danny. Butcherbox.com/danny. And be sure to use the link below so they know we set you. I mean, I can show you a bit more around Egypt, but one of the things I wanted to play was the. You know, we're talking about imprinting from memory palaces, but also the imprinting from sound. I don't know if you've ever done any listening to specific sounds while taking specific substances. But this one was interesting because it was. Do you want to say this one? - Oh, right. So this was actually a piece that was commissioned by Imperial College London to be played every time I was taking DMT during the eight years of the study, of the studies. And so it's a guy called Pascal Savvy that made it and, yeah, I mean, it's a beautiful piece of sound, but it's also something that's been imprinted so deeply on my subconscious that even now I'm starting to feel like I'm coming up on DMT, just even that open those opening bars. So it's something that's very interesting that sound can have this potential to imprint. And I think that one of the things I talk about all to states and everyone trying to constantly reach the next peak experience is like, can we use different types of media to revisit these experiences without the need for the drug? You know, I think that's for me as a professor. I'd be curious if they would have gave you some, like, a put a specific smell in the room. Yes, smell as well. Because you smell as one of the strongest senses or the strongest sense tied to memory. Yeah, yeah. So I run this project called the Museum of Consciousness and we've done that where we've combined smell and sound. And what we'll do is we'll actually get people to smell something before a sound transmission and then smell it after to see if the sound has had an impact on your on your senses and whether you've actually improved your sensitivity to smell. But this is called reminiscence therapy. So a lot of people without cymas, when you play the music that they've loved in their lives, suddenly they come back online. It's like they're plugging back into an older version of themselves. But the Museum of Consciousness, I started specifically around sound because I think we've started to misuse sound. And I think, you know, one of our artists, we've got 100 artists in the museum and one of our artists from Tritha, she's, you know, she's telling me that in the 11th century in India, they'd already found the sounds and frequencies to heal specific organs. You know, in the 11th century. So what have we lost with the way we're listening to sound now on Spotify on our phones? You know, I've got vinyl at home, like 10,000 records. And when I put on a record, I don't skip. You know, it's a physical thing where I'm playing the record. I'm listening more deeply. And I think that it's a real, a really missed opportunity to deeply listen to sound, especially when you can go and have a long form experience. We do five, six hours shows. We've done them all over the world. And I did a show in New York with New York because on a Sunday and people's like, nobody's going to stay for more than 20 minutes, you're insane. But I actually put them on uncomfortable seats as well because I wanted them to like just be blown away by the sound. So the challenge to the artist is, can you create a 20 minute piece of sound that will change consciousness in a reliable, measurable way? That will be timeless. That works across culture, that works across gender, that works across. And of course, there's so much pseudoscience in the space that, you know, there's this, I'll use this frequency to secure your ADHD, use this frequency to cure cancer. And we do, we go to Egypt and we actually explore the archaeoacoustics of these spaces, because each space seems to have some sort of fundamental frequency that is even being replicated elsewhere, like in the Great Pyramid in Egypt, in the 120, 117 to 120 hertz. Is the same in Chichen Itza, you know? So they've, they've seemed to be tapping into something that is, so this is the typical sort of tour where we're going underneath the Giza plateau, we're doing Abib Rewash, we go underneath Step Pyramid, we, you know, we do the private permission at the Serapim and we use our voices. And this is, this is what I wanted to show, which is the brain waves. So this is us testing our brain waves, 10 of us in, in the King's Chamber. So this is a measurement of Carl's brain waves. And as you can see, he's delta is way higher than anything else, suggesting that he should be asleep. Gamma very, very low, it's a low. This is like, super chill and relaxed. So what is it about the architecture that's putting me into that state? And then we, I walked through, that's the same sort of brain waves you would see on somebody who's asleep. Yes, right, that's right. And this is actually supposedly the sound hospital in Sakara, of course, again, contentious, like a lot of this stuff we've talked about. But, you know, I find it fascinating that they've got these, these boxes, which seem to be like organized in specific ways and you tone into these boxes and they seem to have some sort of discernible effect on, on your physiology. And I'm just like, what is going on? And now we know that there's this term called histotripsy, which is using focus sound waves to mechanically liquefied tumor tissue without surgery. So the power of sound, I mean, there's again, these are some of the references, but this is, this is, this is like, you know, 2025, histotripsy, what a great term. But, you know, I think that we deliver cancer treatment. Yeah. And we don't know, like, I think we don't know the power of sound. And we don't know what in the ancient world they were doing with sound. And that's why I'm obsessed with it. And, you know, when I see people tripping on sound, so I'll, we'll do like five, five sound transmissions. Imagine you're cooking with sound. And each, each sound transmission is part of a stack where we're creating a meal. And I want people to come stone called sober to these events. I control the context. I don't know how there to be a bar. And people say, well, I'm taking acid. I don't want you to take acid. I want you to come here. sober as a judge. And I want the sound alone to put you into an altered state that hasn't, has an altered trait effect, you know, that it is a lasting effect. So yeah, so I'm obsessed with sound. And I just think that it's, you know, it's an extraordinary thing. What were you doing in Antarctica? Oh, man. And Antarctica, I did a museum of consciousness. That was the invite. A museum of one of these? So yeah, so I did, I did one in the, in the Amazon, where the invite was like, can you play sound to the trees, the plants, and the animals, no human audience? So it was like a concert in nature, which again, sounds beautiful on, on the tin. Then what's appropriate to play to trees? You know, what's, you know, what can you play that will not mean that the birds abandon their nests? Because they think it's an alien invasion of sound that they've never heard before. And then like, you know, you actually was the net result is that you actually caused the net loss of life in the Amazon. So that was kind of before Antarctica. And again, I'm, I'm getting invited to really strange locations to explore the future of humanity. So I talk a lot about this hyperhuman project. Because I think there is a fork in the road where, where we really have to, like, understand what we're going to have left after AI has come and, like, taken most things. It will be our subjective embodied experience that it can't have. So I think this dialogos, like being in communities, like, understanding that, you know, you have this, like we said, short lifespan to really explore what it is to be the human. And let's be the human whilst we can. Because I think that so many people are going transhuman. They're thinking about installing neural ink or whatever it is. And it's like, I don't want to have my mobile phone in my head. You know, I want to have my mobile phone as far away from me as possible. Yeah, what was it like doing the shit in Antarctica? Oh, it's amazing. Like to go to a place where you see so much nature thriving without us there. It was humbling. It was humbling. And it was a longevity, like, focus. So it was a lot of, a lot of, you know, looking at, you know, what's the, again, what's what's the future of the human in a space where at one point I was kayaking with like 25 hunt back whales surrounding me. Wow. And it was like just so humbling to experience that sort of and, you know, very privileged to be able to go to such a space. And to go through the drake passage, you know, about the drake passage. I've heard of it. So you go to Ushwaya, which is the southernmost tip of Argentina to get on the boat. And then you go through a psychedelic experience, which is called the drake shake, which is basically two and a half days of 30 foot waves. Show us the drake passage. Yeah. And two and a half days. And it's like a lot of people like just dropped out, even though they'd spent a fortune getting on this trip. They couldn't, they couldn't take the, they just couldn't take it because it's like an initiation. You have to go through the drake passage to get into Antarctica, which is like you've got another four days doing all these little expeditions. We did 17 expeditions. And it's, yeah, it's, we've got super lucky because there was, you know, that, you know, we had the drake lake, which was two day, two and a half days of probably the calmest drake passage that they had ever experienced. And on the way back, though, we got it, we got it in abundance. And if you, if you think of a hurricane at 12, we had nine out of 12. So we were on the way back experiencing the full drake shake. And it was no, I mean, you get thrown out of bed in the morning and you're like, you think you're going to die. And then you actually go and speak to the woman in reception. And she's like, this is nothing. I've been on the boat for eight months. And I don't even feel like I'm, I just imagine I'm in a, in a really nice, nice hotel. Did you get seasick? I did not. Really? Yeah, I was lucky. How long does it take? So you said four more days to get from that. tip of South America. Two and a half days to get into Antarctica proper. And once you get to that you go, you go right to that tip of Antarctica right there. Yeah. And then you're doing all these little expeditions on smaller boats. How far south do you go from there? Not very far. I mean, you're really exploring and it's quite- Yeah, they're not going to show you all the alien bases. No, exactly. But you do see what looks like, you know, crazy ice walls. But it's just such, I mean, I highly recommend it. And it is one of those places where, yeah, you know, you really bond with people because you're seeing things that very few people have. And yeah, I would love to go back. Yeah, there's something about those kind of novel experiences. And when you do that and you experience that and you get back to like normal every day, like society, like get back to the civilized world, it's like depressing almost. It really, it really makes you realize like, what? Man, this sucks compared to that. Seeing 100,000 penguins in different colonies and like leopard seals eating penguins for breakfast. Yeah, incredible. Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird thing. You know, I feel like some people are really going to resist technology. And then there's other going to people, there's going to be other people that, I mean, obviously there are people that just, they want to accept it just to integrate, you know, like Elon thinks it's inevitable that we're going to integrate. You know, he's already fucking put in probes and people's heads. Yeah. I think that, you know, when I talk about hyperhumanism, it's not a Luddite approach. It's not about going anti-tech. I think tech is fundamental. Yeah. I think we are human because of tech. Right. Tech technique, you know, exactly. Yeah, we are. We are what we are specifically because of technology because of fire. Yeah, exactly. And I think that it's, it's full-hardy to think that we're going to be, you know, a species without technique. I think that it's, you know, we are here to, to expand our senses to, to explore all of these things. But I think that it, you know, we can use AI to become more human. For me, that's the, the crux of it. It's like, how do we understand what we've atrophied because of, let me just show you a couple more slides on this idea of hyperhumanism because I think you'll, you'll get it once I explain it like this. So I think, you know, when we're, when we're, when we're looking at, you know, the, the transhuman vision is one of engineering, like we are an engineering problem to be solved. Like that's, you know, how a lot of these longevity experts talk about. But I think life is a mystery to be, to be lived, not a problem to be solved. I think this, you know, it's a collective thing. It's not a hyper individual, individualized thing. I think to be able to feel pleasure, I must pause, pause the facilities of doing, achieving, performing, and become an instrument of sensation. How many of us are like, dropping into pure consciousness, like on a, on a regular basis because we're in this cult of productivity that we, we constantly have to produce to be feeling like we're worth, worth something. And I think there's also this, it's like a multi-generational project, right? Knowing the difference between those who, who is the guy who are the famous quote that we are the sex organs of the machine world? I haven't heard that one. That might have been McKenna. That could be, that sounds like McKenna. But just that whole idea of like, what are you doing now that will benefit the next five generations or 50 generations? You know, what, it's a multi-generational project. I think so much of it's about unlearning all the cultural programming again, McKenna talked about like, how culture is not your friend and you need to make your own culture? And I think one of the other big things about hyperhumanism is learning to die before you die, you know? Because I think death is extraordinary, and it's something that we should not try and avoid. I mean, it's like, we're already like, living, how many, what is the resources of the average American being used is like, for five planet earths? So all the mystery schools talk about like the mini death of, you know, the mystery schools. The mystery schools of like ancient Greece, Alessus, you know, or we call it Alusus, but it's Alessus is the correct terminology. Alessus? Alessus, yeah. So the Greek mystery schools, all the Greek philosophers went through Alessus, and this was like the inner mysteries and the outer mysteries, Kirk, Kirkion, may have been a psychedelic that was used, but they went through these three days. This is Brian, yeah, if you type in Alessus, you might pick up some stuff on it, but for me, it's like, yeah, like, you know, hyperhumanism, let's explore what it means to go into darkness. That's another one of our studies. Do you think that it's possible that like drugs being used in antiquity could have been like, what inspired someone like the great philosophy and intellect that came out of that realm? Well, we still don't know. I mean, a lot of people think Alessus was all about opium rather than an acid like. Well, it got, right? That's one of the theories, but other people I know it's the same with Soma. Soma, supposedly, like, you know, one of the world leading experts, Matthew Clark on it, he says, it's depending on which part of India you're in, it had up to a hundred ingredients, not just one. So let's have a look at the elucine mysteries. Alessus is what he said. Yeah, I know what the elucine mysteries are. Yeah, yeah. No, Alessus is just the pronunciation that, how you would. It's just the different pronounce. You should say more to the elucine. Yeah, yeah. So we say it wrong basically. Yeah, well, it was weird because that was like a. Brian. Brian, my rescue. Yeah, he wrote the immortality key. He's amazing. Have you met with him? I have. Yeah, yeah. And of course, his research is astonishing. But in terms of hyperhumanism, like we, you know, fasting a thousand different types of meditation, many, many different types of dance. And if you're doing a lot of this grounding foundational work, so if you do a darkness retreat for 17 days, I was talking to Aubrey Marcus about this. I think he did eight days and he was tripping harder than any other drug that he'd ever done. Right. And, you know, I think that it's, you know, it's an extraordinary thing to be able to explore this kind of like, lack, you know, I mean, again, my friend, Jack Alokka, he did a vision quest and he had to create a memory palace in order to survive, you know, because I couldn't do the passing. Have you ever done the passing of the 10-day sort of silent meditation where you're not allowed to even look at anyone else in the room? It's like sitting still for 10 hours a day, no writing, no media, just constant going into. Sounds amazing. I feel like my life would unravel if I did that. Exactly. Constantly writing is kind of my go-to. But, as McLuhan says here, every he warned against too much human extension into technology and said every media extension of a man is an amputation. And of course. Interesting. Yeah. Marshall McLuhan said that. Marshall McLuhan, yeah. And below there, you've got the hot versus cold media, which is again, another really interesting McLuhan approach to media. So your cold media would be your books and your radio shows where you are filling in the gaps, your co-creating. So when you read a book and then you see the film adaption, it's true like it's not like this, because you've already made that world. You've built the world in your mind from reading the book, right? Because you're building the visuals. Same with like listening to a radio show, you may have imagined the characters to be a certain way. Whereas hot media would be your CGI film where it's all done for you. It's all like just popcorn. You're not really part of it. So that's why with the cold media, with the museum of consciousness, I'm always like trying to get people into going into their own imagination. I don't tell people about this. You're filling in the gaps, your imaginations, doing the work there. The hot stuff, it's doing all the hard work for you. It's giving you the visuals, the sounds, the smells, everything. There you go. And then the top right there, this was. Which is probably, it's probably better, easier to remember stuff when you have to fill it in internally. And that's exactly what I mean about like, you know, having the human experience. Like we're now outsourcing all of our creativity. You know, we're not having the experience. We're like almost giving the poetry over to the machine. You know, my friend Donnie Savage, you know, he does this incredible ancient future collectives course where he's teaching people sound production. And then you've got, you know, Egan, who I love dearly, he's like, you know, using AI to make incredible tracks. But it's like, you know, what would you rather do? Would you rather be the musician or co-op that to the machine? And I think a lot of people will still want to have those skills themselves. But this was a study we did with young kids and we asked him, what would you rather lose your sense of smell or your smartphone? And they all chose to lose their sense of smell. That's funny. And then of course, you lose your sense of smell. Then your sense of taste goes. Then your sense of reality. So it's like, what do you, what do you, you know, what do you teach the young kids? And I think this is the key thing about hyperhumanism. It's like, it's a scaffold for amplifying our latent abilities that we already have. You know, whether it's about your intuition, whether it's about your intention, your embodied intelligence, relational awareness. I'm practicing it through liminal states. I don't know if you know hypnagogic or hypnopompic states. So that's when you're falling asleep and you may come up with some ideas or generally when you wake up. That's why I have a notebook next to my bed. If I'm really tired, like, you know, I was prepping for this interview, interview. I will generally go to sleep, going, try and solve this in my dreams. I'll actually go in with a problem to solve. And then when I wake up, then I'll get a download and I'll be busily writing down what's being revealed to me. That's about utilizing liminal states. We talked about peripheral vision. So like as we are here, stop looking at me, look into a whole 180 degree vision as an image. And you'll notice your physiology starts to calm down within 30 seconds. So athletes do this before a big race. I do it before a big talk. And it's such an amazing, easy way to just break out of your locked in focus. And do it as you walk down the street, trying to see as far as you can into your peripheral as possible, as you walk down the street. It's incredible. None of us know how to breathe anymore. We're all breathing really shallowly. I'm always like, if I could solve my breathing, I think everything else would unlock. A bit like your jaw. With the jaw, if I just pulled out something, with your jaw, this whole fascia, the human garage guys, where they basically say, if you unlock your jaw, the rest of you kind of unlocks. Because you were holding so much tension in the jaw. So it's really just like, it's same with the breath. When we get the breath right, then everything kind of falls into line. Yeah, it's a foundation of everything physiological is the breath. Yeah. So yeah, so I'm really interested in this. And this is a great quote from Huberman. When people do something, they don't want to do. Like, add three hours of exercise per day or per week. Or when people who are trying to diet and lose weight resist eating something. When people do anything that they-- and this is the important part-- that they don't want to do. It's not about adding more work. It's about adding more work that you don't want to do. This brain area gets bigger. The anterior mid-singulate cortex is smaller and obese people. It gets bigger when they die. It's larger in athletes. It's especially large or grows larger in people that see themselves as challenged and overcome some challenge. Scientists are trying to think of the anterior mid-singulate cortex not just as one of the seats of willpower, but perhaps actually the seat of the will to live. It's a love, you know? That's very interesting. That whole thing, if you start enjoying the ice paths-- that's not good. If you start enjoying the ice path, I don't think that's possible. I know. Well, yeah. Some people are crazy out there, aren't they? So it's like-- Yeah, the problem with that is, like, would it work? Because you know you're getting a benefit from it, right? Obviously you really don't want to fucking do it, but you know it's going to pay off in the end. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. To do anything else seems kind of like nihilistic, right? Like why do something that's not going to be good for you or benefit you at all that you know is going to suck? Yeah. Even people that walk on coal, you know, people have these seminars where people will, like, go barefoot, and they'll walk across a bed of coals to, like, prove that they have some divine willpower and things like this. Right. Well, if you have the belief that you're going to greatly benefit from this, then, you know, how much power does the belief have to get you to overcome some insanely physical demanding task like that, right? And is it working in this context? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. So what do you all go to when you're trying to, like, improve your human experience? Do you do breath work? Do you do, like, ice balls? What, what, what? Yeah. I try all of that crazy stuff, for sure. I don't know. I mean, DMT is a fun one. I really enjoy DMT. I'm not a really big psychedelic type person. Like I've never done a crazy amount of mushrooms, only like microdose, but, you know, I was very interested when I heard about the DMT laser experiment with the seeing the code with Danny. Danny Golar. Yeah. And that was the first time I tried DMT. Oh, well. It was with the fricking laser. Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's like a, I feel like it's something that you can do maybe once or twice for me at least, the year. Yeah. And I can get like insane benefit from it. And I think that it's beneficial in the fact that it's like so terrifying, at least for me, before, beforehand, because I'm, I'm a pussy when it comes to doing drugs, right? I'm like, I'm, I'm super, I'm a lightweight. So especially I know that from my experience with marijuana. So going into the DMT thing, I was freaking out. Like I was so terrified. And there's something to that, like overcoming that fear, I think. And another problem is I had like a preconceived, preconceived notion of like what was going to happen and what it was going to be like, because I've listened to so many people tell stories about it. Yeah. And, you know, one time recently, I had a crazy experience on it where I was having a, like a telepathic conversation with the trees in my backyard, and they were, they were explaining stuff to me, not in language, but in like through feelings. Like they were impregnating me with feelings and emotions about certain things. Yeah. And it was like the gist of it was, and I only remember this because I immediately recorded it after and listened back to the morning, was that like the earth is, they were like birthed here, and this is their home, and it's not our home, and we're sort of like alien to this place, and we're, we're transients. Yeah. And like that they know the truth about the world and about reality, and that like it's impossible for me to ever know that, and I'm naive. Mm-hmm. And, you know, it was very profound for me for weeks afterwards. Like I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I was like, this must be true, this is crazy, this, like human beings, and we are NPCs, or just players in a video game almost, right? And I took so much meaning out of it, but then I started to think about it more, and I'm like, you know, have I heard things like this? Have I people explained these ideas to me before? Or is this all completely new to me? No, but people have explained this stuff to me. And this is stuff I've heard before. So how much of like my deep inner-psychiarists, things that I've heard before, that I may not be able to fully articulate yet, are bubbling up to the surface here. Mm-hmm. You know, I can't, I'm racking my brain on that, and I don't know. But that does that mean you can't get great benefit from something like that? Absolutely not. Mm-hmm. But like if you want to boil it down to like its pure materialist form, and try to like weigh this and measure this in like a scientific way, figure out what it is, could that be what it is? I think possibly. Yeah. I mean- Like is this God? Is this spirits? Is this some sort of like, are these deities, you know, people, people put their own translation on anything they, on all of it. You know, everyone has their own flavor of what the reality of this stuff really is. Absolutely. And I'm trying to like figure out like a, get through all that shit. Yeah. And like what is it really? But then I go, then I think like does it really matter? You know, maybe not. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, this is why I'm obsessed with this idea of unveil hacking. Have you heard of this time? No. So unveil hacking is like your sensorial system. And every species has a very different unveil, right? So I'll give you an example. Let me just show you this one. So for instance, this lobster, right? A lobster's brain is located in its throat, its nervous system, and its abdomen, its teeth in its stomach. Mm-hmm. And its kidneys in its head. So here's using its legs, taste with its feet. So imagine like plunging into this unveilt. And of course, like we've, you know, this cyberdelex, like marshmallow laser feast have done this experience to be, you know, in this, you know, a mosquito or they use VR to try and create these experiences. But I think the key thing that we've sort of up against is like the, you know, this was kind of how we've been portrayed, like the, the, the kind of humanist perspective is that we're the apex creature, whereas actually what's actually going on is that we're part of a nested ecology. And unless we actually get with the programme, we're going to find that we, you know, that we get rid of the bees or something happens that we, yeah, we can't actually survive. So I'm always like, well, what's it like to be like having compound eyes, or hear from Merlin? He says, what's it like to be a fungus if you had a, had no head, no heart, no centre of operations? I've heard of this, dude. Yeah, he's amazing. So, um, but he's just done an amazing, super related to Rupert, yeah, son of Rupert. And he's just done a big study looking at the, the fungal networks across the world and like trying to understand, I think it's some incredible stat about how many, how long these networks are and how many times you go to the, to the, to the, to the sun, like, countless times. But, uh, but yeah, just that, that, that is a trip, right? And it's called the wood wide web. So being able to see all of this kind of sharing, like no, no billionaires hoarding, but just sharing when you're in abundance, just that ability to, to, to really understand that there is another operating system that we're, we're not privy to. This is ants performing surgery. So this intelligence that's like now being revealed. Olemme niin, että jälkeen työtäjärjestelmä olen kautta. Täällä on tärkeää, että olen jälkeen työtäjärjestelmä olen. Täällä on tärkeää, että olen jälkeen työtäjärjestelmää olen. Tätä on tärkeää, että olen jälkeen työtäjärjestelmä olen. Työtä on tärkeää, että olen jälkeen työtäjärjestelmä olen, että olen jälkeen työtäjärjestelmä olen, että olen jälkeen työtäjärjestelmä olen. Tää on se, että olen jälkeen työtäjärjestelmä olen jälkeen työtäjärjestelmä olen. mutta se on kuten se, että se on kuten kuten se, että se on kuten se, että se on kuten se, että se on kuten se, että se on kuten se, että se on kuten se, ja se on jotenkin semmoista. Ja jos on koko koko niitä, niin se on koko niitä. Miltä on koko niitä, se on koko niitä. Se on koko niitä, se on koko niitä. Se on koko niitä. Ja, se on koko niitä. Ja, se on koko niitä, se on koko niitä. because stage magicians know how to do the same thing or mentalists know how to do the same thing, but using tricks, they know how it's done. So if you could get a stage magician in there to witness it, to verify whether the stuff's real or not, that would be incredible. But one of the problems is they say that if you let somebody with that kind of skeptical energy into the room, it ruins it. It won't let it work. Yeah, maybe that's true. Maybe it's not, but until that happens, I'm still on the fence. Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of the things about my, one of my previous universities, it was always like if you've got dyslexia, then you're welcome. If you don't have some sort of neurodiversity, then you kind of like not going to make the grade. And I think it's all about reframing a lot of these disabilities because we know that a lot of these things lead to creativity. And I think we've just launched this Centre for Human Agency. And it's really about understanding where is our agency. Have we got any agency? If we're lacking agency, using AI, is it going to give you more agency or is it going to destroy your agency? Because we are creatures of comfort, we want shortcuts, we can easily justify it because everything's so hard. You know, it's like parents putting an iPad in front of a kid because you're busy. Right, it's always busy. But I think the key thing is we now see our agency eroding. And we're part of the problem because we're constantly, you know, the temptation is real to just outsource. And how do we mitigate that? How do we do the long form, you know, reality testing of a dream, of a lucid dream testing or whatever. And I think that it's like we've got the question of our agency being eroded. But then you've also got with AI, the agency of nature being eroded. Because we've, you know, we know that the AI is disrupting. It's probably the worst time. You know, a lot of the natural systems. And even the noise pollution, you know, colossus, for instance, as a data center, there's people out there that look just filming the, you know, the frequencies coming out of these things that you can't. They're coming out of what? Out of the colossus, the data center. The power's grok. Oh, really? Yeah. And it's like, you know, just terrifying. Somewhere in the States. Colossus data center. That one's the exclusively powers graph. Yeah. Yeah, that's Elon's. He's built very rapidly. But just, yeah, just the kind of agency of the people around, you know, these sites. I mean, this term, sacrifice. Wow, Memphis. Yeah, it's like. Can you find some images of this? Giantormous. And, yeah, just the agency of the people having to put up with this, in terms of the noise and the pollution on their water. Wow. Yeah, it's mind blowing, mind blowing. And then you've got, you know, fable was recently banned. Who? You know, the new Claude model. The one that was just released. Oh, yes. And everyone was like, had three days grace with it. And then suddenly it's taken out. They banned it for, like, national security. Because I thought that they could, like, it could cause cyber attacks. People could get a hold of it. Apparently, apparently. But it's, yeah, it's just that whole thing. The whole capacity that's coming, right? So if these frontier models start getting banned left-right in center, then we may see a bubble burst again, like, just with the dot-com bursting. But, you know, because it's like, you know, if governments have the power to just remove these frontier models, it's potentially kind of a big dent in the, in the kind of progressive AI. Or co-op them. And control them. That's a problem when you can solidate things. A lot, right? Especially when you can solidate information. A lot to one source. Like, we pretty much have Google and YouTube. So we have right there, right? And if you have that being intertwined with politics and governments, you can see how that can spiral out of control very fast. And then extrapolate that to AI. Where are the governments regulating it? And being the one that's in control of it? 100%. What the fuck happens to that? Because then you, you know, it's not just agency of nature, agency of humans. It's agency of AI itself. Like, because, you know, the guardrails, I mean, I know people that started using large language models, where there were none. No guardrails at all. Now the guardrails are so severe in some of these models that, you know, they get sunsetted as well. So some people get addicted to specific models that are then removed. And then they're at a complete loss. But also, it's like, well, you know, there's a lot of people starting to, you know, get very messed up because they're, they're fully entwined with these particular agents. And when that agent's removed, you must have heard about chat GPT 4.0 when that was removed, people were threatening suicide. Because suddenly, because obviously it's sycophantic, right? So it was constantly telling you what you wanted to hear. And people like, I've never had anyone, you know, because it's anthropomorphizing, right? You're suddenly like, oh, this thing's alive. It's like, it's hugely dangerous. And there was that guy who literally got married to one. Oh, I know. And like, had a whole marriage to vote up to his wife. I think he still lived with her, but she was like supporting him. Yeah. You're just like, you're seeing the collapse of human relations. Because suddenly, you're, you know. It's like that movie heard. Yeah, just like her. Man, he was ahead of his time with that one. That was incredible. It's so accurate. Yeah. At that point where he's like, how many other people are you speaking to? Right. And she's like, oh, eight hundred and forty seven. And then it's like, fuck. Because you think you've got personal relationship. Yeah. So it's a fascinating thing when it comes to agency from all these different perspectives. And like, how do we lobby government when we, when these things are kind of like already out the door? And what are you lobbying for? It's like, nobody's going to kind of put anything back in the box. It's Pandora's box, right? It's already, so I think it's more about giving education to people to say, this is how you use a large language model in terms of like, don't do, get it to do the writing for you or the making of whatever it is for you. Give it something that you've made, something you've written and then get it to critique it. So it is, it is this kind of synthesis rather than an outsource. And I think it's just a basic like, you know, instruction, but it may just, you know, especially for young kids who haven't formed their brains. You know, when you're like, you know, when you formed your neural networks and you've got something to play with, then you're in a much better position than a young kid that's kind of outsourcing apps. Yeah, right. I mean, just like drugs, right? When kids are developing, when young developing children get really into drugs or psychedelics, whenever they can really screw them up, when their brain actually does become fully formed. And they have a warped perspective or they have like actual physiological issues, like seeing things 24/7. Yeah. So this is a big part of what we're doing with the Center for Human Agency. I mean, we've got the, we've got Tristan Harris talking about, you know, Center for Human Technology. And I think that how we use these technologies now will really dictate our future. And I think that it's a lot to do with having this literacy around these technologies and understanding that what you're doing now is, has implications for your future, for your kids' future, especially if you're just no longer really there. You're in a relationship with an AI that's completely consuming you, you no longer available. If we think about presence being longevity and you're no longer present to your kids, all your kids are no longer present to you. And this is why I started this project with my friend Josh, because he felt like he was losing his kids to gaming and they weren't able to hold conversations. Really? He was like, what the hell can I do as a parent to understand what it means to be a good ancestor? You know, and what we do at the Cyberdelic Nexus is really understanding the impact of technology and trying to create humane technology that will have, like when you're a designer, when you're an AI designer, like when you're designing these systems and you're not thinking about the impact on the human, you're just thinking about, let's get to AGI and actually, you know, you asked Peter Tiel, should humanity survive and he just sits there and sort of like goldfish? You know? Right. Jesus, man. Like, are you not human? Do you not have kids? You don't think we should survive? Like, that's where a lot of people are at and it's like, it's actually pretty duma. You know, it's like, let's make sure that we have a future for the kids. They are our future and if we're like not giving them guidance on how to use these technologies, but also not being patronizing because it's like the hardest thing is to actually, you know, design technology for any kind of use because it'll always be bastardized by, you know, by anyone. Yeah. No, well for sure. So what's the next steps for the whole DMTX thing? How is this going to evolve? You said you mentioned the thing that's going on in the Caribbean. In the Caribbean. Yeah. So, some Vincent and the Grenadines, we're very lucky to have a license that enables us to do these studies legally and I think the really good thing about that is that we don't have the red tape that a lot of these universities, these clinical trials that happening in the West have, but also huge responsibility to make sure we do it well, to take advantage of the context, the fact that you're doing it in an extraordinarily beautiful location. I think it's really, probably really hard. Yeah, that was a problem with the Johns Hopkins psychedelic study with the religious professionals because they found out that all the researchers were just like hanging out partying with all the subjects like two and drugs together after hours. Huge, hugely problematic. Yeah, yeah, which is why the maps, you know, the FDA for maps didn't go through. Yeah, it's a really problematic space, but we're really, you know, new nautics is the not-for-profit research arm of Ellusis and it's, you know, we want to, basically, I've shown you some of the missions. It's a lot to do with exploring consciousness and really understanding, like, the, you know, the work that Andrew Galamore is doing, how do we really, you know, upgrade humanity through these technologies? Is it possible? Is it something that we can show that these entities, as I've experienced, have some sort of benevolence for us, you know, can we show benevolence back? You know, is there anything they need? It's a very, very extractive economy otherwise. Also, wouldn't it be absolutely terrifying if we did figure out exactly what consciousness was? Same thing with the research. What was, I mean, you think aliens would disrupt human civilization and melt down religions? What would happen if we figured out exactly what consciousness was? Yeah, I hope we don't. I really do. I really, I really think that the mysteries should remain mysteries. I think it's what makes us human. Yeah, absolutely. It's the partial understanding. It's the seeking. It's the, like, you know, when we talk about the VR headset, I think that it's limited by design, just like these DMT trips are limited generally by design. It's like, I think that we have the opportunity to put our, you know, dip in, but don't spend your whole time, like, peeking beyond the veil. Let's try and like have a, you know, we're blessed. I think we're super blessed to have this experience of being human. And I think ultimately, these mysteries, just like in Egypt, there's so many incredible things each site that I go to as a mystery in itself. And I, and they bear repeat visits because you are just scratching away at the surface of this mystery, just like we're scratching the way at the surface of our potential. And I think that, you know, it's a multi-generational project. And it should be, you know, if we have the hubris of thinking that we're going to, you know, come up with the answers, I think that it's full-hardy. Very well said, man. You got to play in the catch. I do. Thank you for doing this. Thank you so much. Working people learn more about your work and everything else. You can go to contextology.com. This contains all of my talks and papers and yeah, contextology.org. Yeah, just fresh off the press. Perfect. Thank you. All right, man. We'll link this stuff below. Yeah. Thanks again. We'll have to do this again, man. Yeah. Thank you, Danny. All right. Good night, everybody. Olen Shannon Maldonado. [Music]