413 - Liam Robertson (PSA Monmouth Girls Director of Coaching)

Hello and welcome to the Coaching Soccer Weekly podcast, bringing you educational, entertaining, and inspiring soccer content to help make you a more effective coach, player, or soccer parent. Each week, you host Matt Carroll and Sean Fedemus sit down with world-class coaches, mentors, and program builders to help your athletes see immediate results on and off the pitch. Join us every Friday on Apple Music, Amazon, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, start getting the best out of your best 11 today. Make sure to follow world-class coaching on Facebook, Instagram, and take stock today from more exclusive content. On today's episode, Carol Federer excited to welcome PSA Mammoth Girls Director of Coaching, Liam Robertson. This podcast is brought to you by world-class coaching and Penn and education. And now here's Liam Robertson. Join by your host as always, Sean Federer and Matt Carroll. All right, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to the Coaching Soccer Weekly podcast with your host, Coach Fed and Coach Carol. And today, on a very, very snowy day for us people in New Jersey, we're happy to bring you guys, Liam Robertson, who is a director of coaching for PSA Mammoth, Liam, how you doing today? Yeah, good guys. Thanks for having me along. Make it out OK down by the shore, yeah? A bit more shoveling than normal, but growing up in central Scotland, had a bit of snow before, you know? Yeah, nothing new, nothing new. Yeah, you know what, you're just still my, I actually stole my snowblower, because like, you know what? We don't get snow like that anymore in the last two years, we've just been blasping so. Yeah, so yeah, I was just told you I was a little late, because getting the kids ready, they're watching snow day right now. So, yeah, it's day two, or snow day. Yeah, yeah, they're like, we're showing them the classics so they're getting into them, but. So, so we as we get into it, Liam, can you just give us a little bit, you know, for those at home, you know, your coaching backer, how you got into the game? How you got into coaching and where you are at now with PSA Mammoth? Yeah, so like, you know, most coaches, you know, wasn't good enough to be a player, sort of a level I'm at, you'd be carefully honest with you. Once the final nail was in that coffin, the guy who was my coach, you know, reached out and said, hey, do you want to do your badges? Because he knew more than I did that I wasn't going to be a player. So that was around, you know, really nice way to sing as well. Yeah, listen, yeah, do your badges, you know, Jockey was never a horse. Yeah, well, I've heard that one before. And so, yeah, so I started doing my coaching badges in high school. And then after high school, you know, came here for a couple of summers during college. And once that was done in the UK, came here, worked like a lot of guys like me, UK Lee and those sort of backgrounds, you know, went back, went back home, did the UEFA be license with the Welsh FAA? And then, you know, last couple years did the USF be license and just, you know, just constantly enjoying it. There's not many people that get to see their hobbies or some time job. So I'm very lucky in that regard. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, yeah, just going around. I know you just wake up and you know, it's awkward. Can't beat that man. Yeah, I love teaching, but you know, it's, it's, there's a pull between the two. So, yeah, and even that, like just even saying that our jobs and the way we coach and have to do things are so different with high school, you know, we're coming from that high school background. We have that history. And I've coached club, you know, and it's just, there's a lot of differences. So I want to kind of talk about that. For us at high school, you're, it's a very, it's mostly social. It's cultural development. You're training players, but we had a chat. I coached chat on a couple of weeks ago when you talked about, you know, we maybe get 10 sessions in those three months that are actually developmental. So a lot of ours is the social, the holistic approach, but you as a director of coaching, you're watching players from, you know, as young as you ate or even younger, and you're watching them develop through that, that course and the progress and all that stuff as they develop not only as soccer players, but like going from, you know, the, the, the you ate kid who's kind of like just, you know, live in life and enjoy it and go to the beach and hanging out to like someone that's at the high school level looking at playing at the college level and, and all the other stressors that come along with that. So for PSA, mom, it's like talking specifically about you guys, you know, what are some of the ways that you tailor your approach to kind of fit the local community? What kind of players you bring in and how are you developing those players throughout, you know, just kind of a top down perspective look at that. Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, wait, we've kind of, from the girls side anyway, I can really only talk to that as much as I can plot and to a little bit for the boys, but like, we've kind of had this rapid grove over the last four years. Where it started off, you know, let's get some teams and then all of a sudden the teams are now developing and stuff, but for us is a community approach. It's really just giving everyone an opportunity, looking at where they are in their age and stage. There's obviously some players who are pushing on to that elite level, but there's also some that, you know, you look at and say, well, there's a little bit of potential there. And personally, I just feel like the late developer kind of gets overlooked in this country. So it's kind of aiming at that elite program, but also making sure that we're not casting away those players that could down the line, you know, go through that sort of peak high velocity later or something that could end up being a player too. And as a community sort of thing, it's about the coaches and everyone kind of knowing everyone involved in the program and making sure they're comfortable and learning at their own sort of stage. Now Liam, I like how you brought that up and you mentioned the way plumber because I think I read something the other day where it talks about this whole kind of idea in America where we we look for the prodigy right away, right? We look for the arens and the cabin solvins were like, okay, like these guys are going to be it. We start investing in those people. But then on the reverse side, you look at how America has some of the highest at least at the start right with like kindergarteners for a second graders. We have some of the highest participation in soccer. And then we have the highest dropout rate of like anywhere in the world. So what are some things with you guys in your philosophies? Like how do you make sure that you're not following in or falling into that kind of stereotype of, you know, just jumping right in and be like, all right, this is the prodigy invest now. Like what are some things that you do? It's tough. I mean, I don't think that's just an America problem as well. I think that kind of goes across the board. You know, if you look at like academies in Europe, they look for their especially in Scotland. They look for the two or three best players at the first and can sell on for money. You know, so they put all their energy into that one. For us, it's about having multiple teams that can play at multiple levels so that you're not casting that player aside. It's having a conversation with the parent, which is quite honest as they look, you know, you might not be at the top level team level at 10. But that doesn't necessarily mean you won't be there at 14. So it's about having a buy in from them as well. They're very important in the process and not, you know, throwing that kid aside too early. And it's a balance in that don't don't get me wrong. Some people don't want to hear it. They will go somewhere else and they'll try and push for that somewhere else. But it's it comes down to just be an honest, I guess. Yeah, and that kind of lends into what I wanted to move into here with like that balance balancing act you got to work with. I mean, you know the game, you know what you're looking for and I want to talk about some of the indicators and you know how you indicate success because you know the easy one is obviously wins and losses. You have parents that go in and be like, what were your program do for me? You know, they had this kid go here. They had this kid go there. They won this X amount of games. They beat this team. But you know, when you look at it, I'd say from from a high school coach perspective, watching kids go from freshman to senior year. And it's probably the same for you as a director. It's, you know, it's the growth from that player where they were when they started. But it's sometimes hard for parents where we're looking at from that perspective. A lot of parents are looking at from a comparison perspective. They're looking at other clubs. They're looking at other players. This team won their this tournament. I saw on Facebook. They had a trophy. So how do you do that balancing act of, you know, telling people, you know, we're here to develop your kids. But we're trying to win. But we want to develop them. You know, we don't want you to leave. But we want you to stay. But you know, it's very much a tight rope. I feel like for you guys. So talk a little bit about that. I'd say it's a bit of a high wire act that like. And so basically, you know, it comes down to start the season to be honest. It's having goals. We build a success wall, which doesn't always encourage them. It doesn't always have winning something as the top of it. It's, you know, can we have small goals? Can we be five wins or a row? Three clean of sheets. Can you go a season without, you know, too many goals or whatever. It's having those small goals to succeed that kind of keeps the buying. But also again, it comes back to what I said at the start. It depends where you are in your, your process. You know, are you a young player where it's the learn to love stage, you know, we the success for that eight year old is they want to come back. And they don't get in the car every two nights a week and say, I hate this. And then the next stage is they learn to compete. Well, that's where winning starts to come a little bit of fact that because I don't think we should cast aside winning too early. You know what I'm saying, but I don't feel like you play a sport you want to win, right. That's kind of like the. And I think I even talked about like I saw something up post their day just about like how. It's not just about winning in terms of that. Like you should be fighting to win and like, fighting to lose and things like that. But it's about being able to deal with the losing and processing and losing how losing is part of the process. Where if we don't let our kids be scared, you know, say at home, like they don't know how to process being scared. And I kind of attributed that to like sport. And that's the same thing with losing and being if you're never scared and then all of a sudden you get scared, you don't know how to do with it. You don't know what to go. You know, you've got to learn how to be able to be uncomfortable. Have you ever read, is it the learning game? Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a really good one. And then there's like one other one I read was good intentions or whatever it is, have sort of how good intentions can have bad side effects because you want your kids to win all the time. But losing is part of learning to grow. And that's a miss sort of learned to compete stage. Yeah, I saw the Russian, the Russian quote from 1980s, like they were like, why'd you stay on watch very timely with the game on a Saturday? They were like, we watched it because we didn't know what was happening. They were all accelerating and excited. And like we had lost 43 games. You see that with some of these. They didn't, yeah. I watched the documentary on it like last week, I think. Yes. And they're like, "placid one." But yeah, like in some of these teams, you'll see that. And you know, when they go through a season undefeated and other thing, when they'll go tell match originals and they'll play a team from somewhere else in the country who also went undefeated. They don't know how to get over the line. You know, like that. They fought that last hurdle because they don't know what to do when they're down to go. It's kind of alien to them. So you do need that as part of that learning to compete stage. What we talk about is a credit to Sean, a work with an exceptional coach. He always talks about not just having a winning mentality, but how do you develop that winning mentality? You know, is it scoreboards in practice? Is it, because you can't just tell a player, you have to win. You have to try and develop that. How would you become that winner? Yeah, like that clutch gene, that idea of like, and that's something we've talked a lot about on the podcast is, you know, if you're a winner, you know, we throw that word around, but like, what does that mean? It's like in that moment when you know, pressure is on you, are you faltering? Is it, hey, are you letting that negative self talk get to you? We're losing. It's like, oh, no, here we go again. One of the things I talked about when I first came into the program, I'm currently with, you know, they would say, well, welcome to BT and what that meant was like, yo, this is where bad things happen. Like this is like just, you know, we're accepting of this because this is how we feel. And I was like, what are we talking about? You know, that's, that can't be any way, shape or form in your head and getting those things into practice. So I say, probably, yeah, that's, I imagine that's something that you guys are seeing as. You know, quote, unquote, a success for your, your, your program. What are other things you think are like success? How do you breed that? And how do you, what would you say? Like, when a player walks out of your, your club, having graduated out, going to college, things like that, like, what do you want them to be able to do? And how do you get to that point? Right. We want them to understand when they leave is that college isn't the end. I think that's a trap. A lot of players fall into is that getting to that program, whether it's a D1 or a D2 or D3, whatever one it is, you think, oh, I've got to play in college. Well, you haven't played in college yet. So it's having that mentality, installing them that when they get there, they want to start, they want to, you know, they take from us the hard work, the enjoyment, all the things that we try and put into them. Like, and that when they get there, it's, this isn't the end, this is the start of journey, you know, we had a girl recently who went to school and I think it was her own, she went to. She walked on as a friend, she got, she walked on, she got, um, recreated really late in the day, like Memorial Day weekend. And she went there with no, probably wasn't going to start, came on in the first game and she's been on ever since. So like we want players like that, you know, they aren't just accepting that they've made college. It's all right. Now I'm there. Can I push for this, you know? And that's so nice of you. Yeah. I like it. I feel like so many of those times. Right. Like I've talked to some kids, I got who go and play in college and they're just like, you know, like this is a completely different world from high school. Just every aspect, like not only just the soccer, just preparing them for like the academics, the athletics, right? Like we had to have our former athletes on a couple episodes ago and that was like one of the big things that they were discussing. So, um, what are some things so Lee and the you guys are doing like within your culture. So you're going beyond like what are some things that you're telling your kids to help them get ready for the college level and some things that you do? So yeah, that's a tough one because we do like seminars and stuff with them and we, you know, I'm not the zone two director. So don't afford him under the bus, he does a lot of work on that. Um, where he's basically, you know, he's got good connections and from his doing his A license and that and he tries to sort of guide the players. So when they do go to that next level, they understand what the commitments are in terms of academics. And the one for us is that we, you know, you ask a kid a freshman in your poor doing your school or even a sophomore and what's your like achievable skills and where do you want to go? What's still like an achievable and they'll all come back with a UNC and a, you know, a purify conference and you have to kind of tell them like maybe scale it down a little bit, maybe a bit more like what can you see yourself being there for four years is the big question I ask people all the time because if you, you know, turn up to a campus in the middle of nowhere and it's not what you expected it to be. They don't have a football program say that you, you know, all that stuff that kids go to schools for that you want to see then you're, you've got next four years of your life, you're going to be not very happy, you know. Yeah, it's like, I know so many players that get to that level and they're like, yo, this is just like too hard or I don't actually enjoy this that much or they see it as like that's the celebration you put so much work in your entire life to get to that moment. You get it and but the point is to get there and fight and continue to compete and take it on. And if you don't have that mentality, I think a lot of players, it's, you know, you go from, we talked about it like we said last week with our players, you, you're at your club, your parents drive you out, whatever you drive you're out, maybe two, three times a week. High school, you're, you're straight from class to the, you know, it's a lot of very structured thing and then you're off on your own and you're making the own decisions and that can be very difficult. But like you've said, it's like kind of about being honest with them. I think I have so many kids that like, yo, so you're going to go D one or is that D one or like, I don't think you guys really know what that looks like. So many players like, yeah, you know, I'm looking at that. Like you said, like this school at school, that, they're scoring. Like, hey, but you're going to get a great education and a stock dinner a row in here and that's, that's okay. And that's really great. You're going to have a great opportunities there and you're going to have success there. But like you said, it's having those tough conversations and being honest with them. So mentality wise, obviously, like you said, you're looking to educate the players on the opportunities. You know, get them to, you know, not run out of gas once they're out of your program and they get into the college, looking for, you know, creating that winning mentality. But from like a technical perspective, you know, and I know you're, you're covering so many different age groups, but from a technical perspective, kind of what's your philosophy, maybe chunk it every three years, but what are the key things you will, you know, at PSA moment, are looking to get your girls to be able to do? Yeah, I think like the big ones for us is an early age is we want to try and get their decision making. Like, we're also free. You only have free choices when you have the ball, right? Past dribble shoot. So obviously we want to get them technically good enough to be, you know, proficient at all three of those, but can we get their decision making up where they can make that choice when to use, when to pass, when to go, when to shoot? And that's the, in the younger ages in that sort of game, like that early winter love stage, can we have them enjoy the game, but also at the same time be able to do those three things? That's the big one for us. And then when they get into that sort of second phase that learn to compete, can they do that under a higher pressure? Because that's the, you know, I feel like with a good player, it's not just how well they do things, but it's how fast they do it. How quick can they make that decision? You probably see that. You see a lot of high school players get a freshman who like, you know, they're taking that extra touch because they never played against an 18 year old year. So we're trying, you know, making small, so we can sort of bring that out of them, improve them technically and their decision making that this isn't them. I saw a post of their day, you know, and you get into the weeds of it. You know, I talked to our buddy Paul, he had on here a while ago, but the weightlifting community and the same thing. You get into the weeds and you go on social media, which I really should do less because it's just so toxic. And you see people is ripping each other apart as coaches. And I saw one the other day and it was a team and it was a really great team. It looked like, you know, they were playing out the back. It went like center back to the five, the three, six, 11 crossover to the seven. It was a low hard pass in nine scores. It was like, oh, wow, like, that's amazing. And the coach was like, this is what's wrong with American soccer and it's like, they're becoming too methodical. And it's like, what? I don't know. So, you know, I made me think and I was like, okay, but you know, what is he was like a U12 team or something like that. And I did kind of make me think a little bit, you know, I try to take a grain of salt with everything that's on social media, obviously, but I was like, well, you know, what is that? Really, what we're looking for is that they know what to do in certain situations and can they translate that or, you know, I think what I'm trying to say is, how much of it is, are you telling them in this situation, this is what we want to be doing. and giving them those things, or how much of it is developing that creativity, allowing them to make those choices in that moment. I think that's how that goes just getting it. So obviously we have a blueprint. Yeah, and now we have a blueprint. We have a game model and all that stuff where we encourage our teams to play this way and we show them clips or whatever of our teams doing what we'd like them to do. But in with that, and again as a DLC, I'm not telling my coaches how I want my teams to play. They're team to play. It's their team. And each team's different, each circumstance is different, each situation is different. So I feel like if you're, if you're, if you're micromanaging every situation, then what like coming back to what happens when it goes wrong, what happens when you do have to go long. If a team high presses you, you're not going to play it from the back. Are you? You're not looking professional teams don't do that. Maybe that's the point that I'm doing. But it's and if the teams drop deep, then yeah, sure, then you wouldn't go long. vice versa, because so now we every situation is different. It's about giving them the toolbox to be able to adapt every situation and to understand more of yes coach input, but can you figure it out as well while we guide you, you know. Now Liam, so within that balance of you know technical ability, helping players decision making past dribble shoot. At what levels would you say you're trying to find that balance of hey, like we have a game model, we have a blueprint, we have things we want to do. But would you say there's a certain age level where you're going to kind of maybe lay off and cater to hey, let's let the kids make these decisions. And then is there a certain level where you're like, hey, look like you know, like you were saying we there's a score for a reason, right. You have to get that winning mentality. Is there a point where you hit with your players or you're just like look like this is the game plan. This is what you're doing. You have to be able to do this role to get on the field. Yeah, I get like not not too young, you know, like the younger ones we they would even know we had a game model, you know, not saying that we're we're not telling secure old's hey, you've got to do this or that we, you know, I would say, yeah, if somebody comes to us and asks us what can I do more to get more play time and they they want constructive feedback. Then it will be a case of, you know, well look here's your evaluation. Here's what it looks like now. Here's what it could look like in this situation. And I'm sitting here today doing that for 2014's. So a bit of feedback's not not going to hurt anyone. I think the sort of two tears your question here like is that there's obviously games where at half time you need to make an adjustment and if the players aren't seeing it himself, then there's nothing wrong with a coach step and then insane, hey, look, if we did X, it might help us, you know, I wasn't my team. It was actually our 2012 girls had a game where the other team, you know, dropped played very deep. They struggled to break them down and we had to kind of, you know, bring the wingers in a little bit. Can we ask them to combine a little bit and they're smart, but they're not going to come to that on their own. You know what I mean, we have to kind of guide them to that. But because they're very coachable because their decision making is good, they were able to on the slide do that. And all mainly I think they want already drew something. The outcome was terrible. So you're kind of like the missing link in that scenario, like you they're looking for a solution. You're kind of guiding that direction and they're ultimately coming up with the solution. Yeah, I would say so. I mean, that's what you know, we're not we're not mannequins on the sideline, you know, and practice. We're quite active and we're quite, you know, we want to we want our players to succeed. We want to help them succeed, you know. So yeah, like you said, you're telling me about the things that you don't do, like where you're allowing these coaches to coach and allowing them to have these models and play, but you have that methodology. What are the things you are doing? I mean, you're as a day of your coaching the coaches, right? You're in charge of the players, but it's almost like you're an administrator at a high school. Your job is obviously to make sure all the players are happy and developing and things like that. But you're coaching the coaches and kind of helping them along with that. So what are the things that you're providing for your coaches and doing to help them out? Yeah, so Dan, Dan on the boys side is a really good job at this, you know, with the full-time guys that he evaluates them and I do the same thing, you know, if they have a problem, they come to him. If they need, you know, hey, I'm working on this is supporting them. It's not overbearing. It's not we don't hide in the trees and watch them every night. Because we coach our own sessions, but it's basically just supporting them in any way they can if they if a game my team this keeps happening to me or us, you know, any ideas on what to work on, how to fix this. It was just being there for them. But I think as PSA is in general, I just think like the standard of coaching, I mean, I like it as a director. I shouldn't walk on the field and be the best trainer on the field, you know, like there's a lot of good people there that push each other that are always working on things. There's always somebody on a license course and who is happy to give their feedback from what they're working on. In terms like coaching coaches, we all can coach each other. And even sometimes as well, like the guys out work with they don't always come to me, like Sean, who's his own two director, he's got an a license, you know, he's probably a better resource for most things in me. So it's kind of that culture where we all can help each other. Nice and yeah, and like that's I we talked about going to coaches convention a couple a couple of weeks ago and how like just being around coaches is so impactful just being around other coaches and having those conversations and just float in those ideas around like I said, even like I didn't really totally agree with what I saw in the guys comment on the video, but like even just that kind of just makes you think and evaluate. And if you just kind of sit in your own, you know, bubble there and do your own thing and you're not having those conversations and you're not kind of bouncing ideas off of someone else, you know, you get very stagnant, you kind of don't, you know, you're kind of in your own echo chamber. And I found that. Sorry, yeah, I think we're so quick is like is coaches and these people to just kind of maybe like I'm not actually on social media. So you're point earlier about. I keep it that way, that's why I look so young as it but like him. But like yeah, I watch, you know, I love winter because we go to an indoor place and we see, you know, a club that's meant to be our big rival and whatever and I watched their coach. I love a little people in the corners, you know, what they're up to because I'm interested. I feel like there's no, you know, there's other clubs across the curtain that are doing things. There's a private training program. I just, you can always be learning for somebody and if you're close-minded, then you're only hurting yourself, aren't you? I was sure that we would be able to listen to this today and say, oh, that guy, you know, what does he know, you know, and that's carefully fine. But like yeah, you can always learn, like, definitely, you're only shooting yourself in the foot. And you can learn more by liking and subscribing. Yes, and we only follow our social media. You can be off social media just follow our audience. But Liam, that's a great point because it's true. The best coaches are always learning. You know, they're always talking to somebody. You know, they're always, you always search for a way to improve your education. You know, again, like I, I came from zero, playing experience. You know, so I literally had to go out there, talk to coaches, read, I would, I would give it a big fun of because when I was coaching winter track for a season, I would literally just read inverting the pyramid like coach beard and Ted Lasso and just be taking the notes and everything like that. Because I knew it was like, hey, you know, if I want to figure this out and make an impact, I, you know, need to go out there and just seek more beyond what I know. So I think that that's a great point is the best coaches are always learning. They're always trying to learn it. And even sometimes maybe even looking at the way things used to be done, reflecting and kind of going back. Like was it three, two, four, one that pep revolutionized was brand long time ago. Scott, I saw Scott, I should get to that to Brazil years and years ago. Outside forwards and stuff. Yeah, and just always finding inspiration in in the game and having those conversations. And I think a lot of that, if you're not doing that, you know, I don't think it's, then comes down like ego. You know, I've always, you know, I think there always is some trepidation of like, hey, is this, you know, you're going out there. Hey, what do you think about this session and you know, you're afraid to get ripped, you're afraid to be like, no, that's not how we do it or even doing wrong the entire time. And if you're not seeing that, you know, I think in high school, you know, we don't have the luxury of like you said going and watching other sessions or seeing that or stuff. You know, I'll see occasionally my JV and freshman coach, but they're kind of off. And I really liked USC used to do that. You know, the night side coaches, they used to do what you had open sessions and colleges and that was just unbelievable. I would just go, I went to like as many as I could. I think, you know, we went the one day fed and we just want and watch coaches across, you know, they opened their sessions up. And that was just really eye opening and not only just to like, oh, this is a drill they're doing. We think about it, the nitty gritty of it, but like we said, and we'll end our podcast with this later on. It's not about the drill, it's about how you're explaining it or how you're getting the information across. The simple, the rondo is the simplest drill, but there's so much that can be taught with it. So, again, from the DOC perspective, you walk up, again, not looking for specific drills, but you're watching a session, you're like, "Yo, 10 and 10. That's the perfect session. I loved everything about that session. What does that session look like for you?" Yeah, it's for me, it flows, but from warm up to game at the end, there's obviously a plan. That's the thing for me that I can take away from it. The best ones for me are the ones where I'm watching it from completely other, I know I say we don't hide in the trees, but see, I'm on the same field, and I can look across it. Our 2017 Groscoach, for example, is very good. I know exactly what he's doing without ever asking him. I know he's got a plan without asking him what's your session plan today. Likewise, if somebody doesn't have a plan, it's pretty obvious as well, but the culture and environment in our place is rare that happens. Sometimes part-time trainer is running late or whatever, that's just life. But for me, it's the flow of the session. The kids are engaged. You can tell they're working to certain times, and the stoppages are either natural or times. It's not just stop-free, random coaching points. It's kind of like, wow, that guy put a little bit of time into this, and they're getting their rewards for it. And with that, talking to the coach and toolbox there you have and the coaching and the flow, how much are you guys looking for that in the session? How much of it is you want them coaching the flow? How much are you stopping and starting and looking at the nitty gritty of it? It depends. It depends. It depends. It depends. Yeah, it depends. When the older ones, I'll use a natural stoppage, probably more if it's not going well. If it's really not going well, then I will stop because when it's just in a reevaluate, I'll bit myself in that point because there's obviously a reason. There's a why behind everything. But for most times, it's the time stoppage because we work. It's a work to rest ratio. And in that downtime, that's when we'll make the coaching point. But I think not one you need. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I've had drills that I've waited and waited and waited and never got better. But there's drills where I've sat there and I'm just going to let them give them some time to figure out. We had one this fall that I'm like, this looks atrocious. And one guy was walking around, the scene in a same private Ryan with the guy with his arm off, just lost. I'm like, you okay? He's like, I don't know what's going on. And I kind of let them flow into it. And they figured out, and they ended up developing different strategies and they were communicating. I was like, yo, this is great. And I think if I just cut it short and just tried to explain it to all of them, it would have kind of taken away that discovery for it. But like you said, I know you're not hiding out in the trees, but you've kind of got that pressure, right? If you have parents watching your sessions, you know, high school or closed off, but you got parents to stay, you got the diocese over there. How do you think your coaches deal with that? And how do you encourage your coaches to deal with like, letting things develop like that and not being afraid to fail in those situations? Yeah, it's a good question. I think it comes down to the culture that they're all comfortable with us as a sort of management structure. They know that we're not out to get them. I think if we were like on top of them all the time and it's got to be like this and it's got to be like that. And you know, proper orthographic with the coaches, I don't think they'd have the confidence to let it go wrong. You know? I think that's a good point you made about when things are going wrong, letting it flow out a little bit sometimes and it does help that sort of decision-making, you know? But yeah, I think it comes down to us as sort of the diocese that we kind of, they're so comfortable with us that they know we've got their back. You know, if a parent was to reach out to us about the trainer, then we know they're why. We know they're rationale. We know they put a bit of work into the practice. So we know it's not just, they're not just winging it. It's not like, oh, it just went a little bit of rondo for half an hour and it didn't work out that well. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. It comes back to what you said in the beginning, that communication of being open and honest, having those talks. And again, I think a lot of what happens is a lot of things, you look at social media, going back to it. A lot of that is it's lacking in context, right? It's people posting stuff. It's a guy posting a Jefferson Cup matchy saw on YouTube and then posting about it. Not knowing the team or anything like that and then people commenting on it. So that communication and that openness eliminates a lot of that. Eliminates the contextual lacking that we have on social media. Eliminates the you guessing. I think this is what he's trying to do. I think this was this coach is trying to do. Those conversations are so important. We had one a few years ago, some girl ran through one of our teams. A camera, what age was I do remember that we had to play our injured at the time. So we were down to 10 players. This girl ran, I think she was the left back, ran all the way through and scored. They got like 55,000 views. But no one else knows that. You have to, you know, so like social media, you know, it can be quite deceptive. And yeah, everyone's just kind of telling you this is what you should be doing. I wouldn't want to be that coach. Right. Oh, that we had a couple years ago. They sent it to the top 10. We got a bike down and I'm like, oh, yeah, but like we had three players that were like suspended that game. I'm not going to post on that for you. But it was a sick bike. We should not have left it open. And apparently, the kid didn't like to go after him and mark the kid. And like the kid just left the score. I was like, oh, my God, this I don't need you up there. Flashbacks. Yeah, that was a rough night. I remember that one. Now Liam, how do you even do with your players too? Right? Even like just what social media is, right? And this whole idea that you kind of see, you know, we're worse in here like it's coach is like, oh, yeah, maybe we need to do this and do this this way. The players have an instant, you know, access to anything tactically, tactically, technically, and they can come in the practice like my freshman soccer team showed up after watching a Tik Tok of the PSG kickoff play as like, all right, we're doing a coach. I'm like, what? Like, what even satches on? Why aren't we doing this? I'm like, because those guys play for like, you love reaq or reaq or whatever, like that. It's not the same dude. That's right. The PSG kickoff was my 2013's in a preseason tournament and I abandoned it pretty quick. Highland Park is the only one I've ever seen do it right in the sectional final and they were just totally crap. Yeah, first. Did it go? I'm sure did it? Did they retrieve it? They picked it up. It's funny what you were saying earlier though about like looking at like other, like, coach season scene stuff. Do you guys ever look at other sports because that PSG kickoff, that's come from rugby. That's there's are maybe even football. Like that's not a traditional soccer we have taken a kickoff, you know? Oh, no, yeah. When they did it, we were like, this is this is way different. But yeah, I look at a lot hockey actually. You know, just watching the Olympics and stuff like that, just the way the patterns, you know, I think it's soccer. If you know the game, you can see the patterns. You see like, oh, he's here. This is why he's doing this. And here's the option. See, he's got in soccer. I think, you know, for the layperson, it's a little harder. But hockey because it's so it's so condensed, I find that I can find little patterns that you can work out that are transferable. Now, obviously, you're not nice and the movements are going to be a little different. But I found that like watching hockey the way they press. They're the four checking. I know reading, you know, the book you talk about fed like levy up a shin and all those guys in Russia, they developed the pressing systems and because of, you know, their hockey programs like that. But I found that was really helpful. But what about you Liam? Like, what are you, where things are you drawn from? I see. I don't have enough time to watch other sports these days. That's the problem. But I'm curious, because like, I'm like, Arsenal, apparently like, you know, they've taken a lot of these like set plays and stuff from other sports and that as well. I have the book saying about basketball. I want to read about like basketball. So it's funny. I read Malcolm Gladwell's David versus Goliath and the guy who invented the full court press was because he was a soccer guy. That's right. Yeah, he was a dad who watched soccer and was like, you know, why do you have to wait until half court to pick them up? And it like broke so many rules of like the ethos of basketball that they would have to a point. They said, you know, just call foul every time they press just call foul. Like this is unlike like that. Yeah. Yeah, because he's just a dad. He doesn't know. The same thing, right? There was a, I think maybe in the same book about some high school coach in Texas that every time they go for every, it's always go for the extra point they never kick and it ends up, he's on some staff now that there was into the Falcons or something. And then I think the guy Seattle, the defensive coordinator, both times they've won Super Bowl now, but both being former rugby players like to wrap and tighten our ethical property and stuff. It's getting interesting the crossover between it. But yeah, basketball's the one for me where the way they press and cover each other, the way that they force, you know, a way and the way that they like, you know. The structure and strategy is going to be interesting to me that Like it's not fair enough. I think to watch enough sports and it's so important too because it's a great way to kind of like make those connections is You know obviously if your players watch multiple sports and you can make that connection like hey the way we press is You know like if the Golden State Warriors do this in basketball and get you like oh, okay Like being able to relate it and bring some of those concepts He kind of increases the chance that hey, maybe my kids might understand this because they see it somewhere else I'm just providing a different outlet for them Yeah, and just being like that deeper understanding if you can relate it to other things and just like we talked about like being able to play if you're playing basketball or you're playing You know I knew on croissed book my turn. He talked about how baseball taught him about timing was a catcher Actually, it's like the like the national level for some of the youth squads for Holland and he talked about you know the timing of it You know the first step when you're stealing things like that Patience and those transferable skills but just watching different sports and bringing those things and you know You're getting a better picture and if you can take something and you know talk about in school All the time if you take two things and draw comparisons between the two that's a higher order of thinking that's gonna cement those things in your brain Um You probably don't think you're gonna get a scorched down and you talk about basketball and baseball so So As we go along here, you know you're So we're talking a lot about club and we're talking about you know your different levels and stuff like that But there's been a lot of talk about what's going on with club and and how all that works out So I figured it was be good time to kind of you know Cut into a little bit of like a crash course and how all this like overhalls working What talk you know talk a little about eCNL eCNL or L and all that kind of stuff if you could just kind of give like a quick little like overview um Of the the kind of right now how the club world is working out with all the new changes going on and In terms of age change or in terms of us bias conference relating with MPL or Both actually. Yeah, I think for a lot of people, you know It's right well soup of how the world's Yeah, your soccer's working. It's like what do you mean? The the US ys conference MPL one came up out of the blue to me and to be honest with you I wasn't at the convention either convention that make out to Vegas for eCNL either So it's a little bit from what I understand they are basically The same level now. So eCNL would be the top of the pyramid in US club soccer and then RL then MPL then US bias conference I've switched to US club soccer I believe and their playoffs are all lined and you can you know There's a could be promotion and stuff is what I'm being told But I'm not I'm not entirely sure myself The age change one, you know I think that's just going to be one of these things like the last thing the age changed I was fortunate enough to be involved then as well and Nothing really after a year the players who who stayed at their age or didn't move or did move whatever happened It all kind of worked itself out over time. So where we've been like working on this age change for probably over a year now to be honest Just in terms of how we aligned our coaches how we aligned certain practices So that the teams are kind of neutral to kind of anything it does change for a player Then it's not too drastic if that makes sense you're you can Move to your grade age team, but you still have the same coach And that's happened a lot from us because we've we when this happened we on the girls side of PSA anyway That we actually took I didn't I dropped a team I gave my team to somebody else because he coached 10s 12s and it made more sense for him to coach the 11s and then I went and coached the 14s because I had 13s and 15s So we that's kind of the way we like negotiate it so there was less coach movement, but if there is player movement that makes sense Yeah, just your club does it do they fall up the team or do they do an age group for your coaches? We do pass on the girls side and anyway, so on the girls side anyway, we do pass on eventually We just you know we pass through where you are But every couple years it's not every year Okay, so you kind of shake things up so they're getting the different well, yeah, you're a teacher right like you don't coach You don't coach you don't teach the same grade every year, right? You don't they don't have the same teacher from first to you know ninth grade wherever you know, so I feel like different voices Reemphasizing the same thing actually layers your learning and actually helps you helps it stick Right Yeah, if you said it and the next guy said it and the next guy said it and the next guy said it you're like oh maybe they Maybe they know what they're talking about maybe they might be right. That's why yeah, and that's why you do like saying like our coaches We do give them the freedom and we give the players a bit of freedom But we ultimately do have you know a game model of Emplier profiles that are position profiles that kind of helps that transition to And without giving away you know, obviously don't want to go through the whole thing You send a whole PDF with all of it But what are some of those those things just to give you like the nitty gritty of it like what are some of the player profiles? You guys are passing along and how are those things like how do you submit those things and keep those things cohesive through through all levels? Yeah, that's a tough one like so basically it comes down to just like well, what do you want that player to do like if you're you know If you're you know a fillback all right Well, look we're looking for you one can you defend but two if you're playing that position We need you to attack as well. Can you can you join the attack? Are you brave enough to overlap if you're a six say or a center of fueler? Are you good enough on the ball to receive under pressure? Is your decision making good can you play quickly? Can you see that next pass and if she can't see it can you are you smart enough to retain possession as a team? You know Striker of this one can you score what's your movement like if you're a 10 time you read the striker's movements of use if you you know we're playing a 4231 and you are that 10 All right, I'm looking at my striker right now She's gone short. So what does that mean in that situation? I need to go become the striker like just little details like that without giving too much away There's just basically like Here's your choices in this scenario How would you know how do you execute it? Well, I'm the technical base to do it as well. Okay, so that there's a couple key points It's like you said positionally like your full backs without them attacking things like that It's not you have to be this type of player, but you have to be able to do You know, X-Wine Z a few things and then you're having those communication From you know level level so you're at the you 11 coach talking to the U12 or the 13 coach and kind of being like hey This is where they're They're not hitting this mark or something like that or they are hitting this marker and it's kind of helping them get the expectation of Doesn't matter who your coaches if you're not doing these certain things. This is where an area in which need to improve right? Yes, there's a key reason for girls for sure Hmm and again like keeping that consistent. So it's just not like you know, we have those kind of meetings at the high school level where it's You know Freshman level they should have this kind of skill. They need to be able to write a thesis statement. They need to be able to Um be able to analyze Uh political cartoons and data. They need to be able to write a five paragraph essay and then you know having those meetings where it's All right, so they should be at they don't if they're not doing these things for you at the sophomore level Then they've missed something here at the freshman level kind of deal Yeah a little bit I guess but like you say like every player develops at their own time and is having a level for them So that they can develop for that Yeah, so yours would be a little more like like individualized instruction like that Yeah, and you see that we have players that definitely start on and we'll start on one team and well Can hit those marks and they you know they will get moved to up a team for sure Yeah, we always talk about like jv varsy freshman like it's very fluid like I've had kids come up then go down I had a kid that was varsy freshman year then jv the next year and you know It's all about kind of you know that development isn't linear like we always talk about is it's not just hey You're just always improving like there's gonna be setbacks and there's gonna be games. You don't play as well But going back to our our beginning conversation like how do you how do you deal with that the player that Uh kids are catching up, you know Do you just give up and you're like I'm not making it because now some people have caught up or do you Use that as kind of your telltale like I need to pick things up from here on out and developing that Um that mental fortitude like you said It comes to an honest conversation and sometimes with some kids like like You know, especially some girls where they big bro like incredibly quick in some period of time and You know as you're longer your spine gets for the way your brain gets from your feet and you're just not reacting as fast And it's just having that understanding as a coach and able to relate that to the player and the parent That hey like because you know You've grown so quickly Don't worry about it, you know just Well, you will get you there. It's not it's not you know, be all an end all it's having that understanding that It's gonna happen, you know Mm-hmm. Yeah, like so I have in structure But making sure that structure is flexible enough to to be adjustable to the individual. Yeah Like that like that concept um, so what we're gonna do here as we kind of wrap things up We do this for every session. So um, you know you're out there You're hiding near tree like you are and you're watching session and the coach is like, "Yo, I gotta go pee. Can you just take over? I gotta merge. I gotta go do some." You're jumping in. What's the drill that you're doing? Maybe it's specific to an age group, but maybe it's no one. You can adjust it. You're like, "I know I have the best coaching points. I feel strong about this drill. What's the drill that you bring to that session?" So, yeah, my go-to is I have, you know, it's a field. It's a game-based. And there's just a circle in the middle. It's so basic, but you can take this circle in the middle of the field and you can apply any sort of thing to it. Like, in terms of, all right, if we're, you know, playing through the center mid, all right, if they can get a given go out of that center mid, say, then when we score it's two points, or if it's a striker playing with their back to goal, can we play into the striker and play off the striker, or can they turn and go themselves? You know, I mean, it's just having a condition game. It's nothing crazy, but, you know, if you need, it takes two seconds to set up and there's so many things you can teach off this. It's not entirely revolutionary. Yeah, I know. I think that's kind of the point of this. You're not looking at these drills that are like, "Oh, this is a crazy drill. He needs to make this call, and then this guy does this and that." It's like, just those drills that you're just able to kind of pick up. So, what are some like the coaching points that you're bringing? Let's say you're doing the center mids, right? You're working in your center mids. What are the things you're looking for in this drill? Like, what are the things you're, the three things you're constantly repeating while you're coaching that drill, or working with the center mids there? Well, so the thing we teach is that there's free ways to break a team down, right? The quickest one is through them. So if they have, so, for example, if you're doing this exercise and you have the, try to use the right metric measurements here, whatever one you do in America, your circle's five by five, whatever it is, right? And your center mid controls the ball in this circle. If they can play forward, say one point, right? If they can't, or you can do another way where they can retain possession. So if they can play through their team, we obviously want to encourage them to do that. If they can't play through, can we play around? So they receive the ball in the circle, can they find a full back, can they find a winger, or if you can't do either those things, can you play over? So they receive the ball, can they play around the corner? And if they can't do any of those three things, can we keep the ball, go backwards and start again? So it's basically, you know, if I was doing a session working on my center mid, I would, you know, I would make the point-based system revolver around their action in that middle of the field. I like that. Yeah, we use the verb, you call it FSB, forwards, I was backwards, you work your, you're a field of vision, if you can go forward, go forward, and then you work your way out, and eventually if you can't find that you're going backwards. But you know, I like that idea of like our two points of its forward, maybe one, if it's sideways and then zero of its backwards because you're maintaining, but it's, you don't lose the ball and maybe minus one for fall, for losing the ball, and then you're creating that, you're not telling them what to do, but you're creating that numeric rule to encourage them to do the thing that you want them to do. Yeah, and it comes back to like, saying like, can we develop that winning mentality as opposed to, you know, having it tell them they have to have it? Like a lot of things we do, and again, like I'm not going to sit here until you're in the end of these things because the, the fruit sideways, you know, the cat go frugal around, cat go round go over, that's the guy, you know, Gary Lewis, he's, it's Chicago, I worked with him at UKLE, he was showing our work with a sister in the A license, you know, just doing things from other people all the time really, but like, yeah, good artist borrow great artists steal so you know, take everything. Yeah, and that's what we want to do is like in this part of it is like, did just see again, you watch a drill and you're like, I can do that drill to normal drill, but it's it comes from conceptually what's the point of the drill? You know, I think we've hit on a couple really key themes here and like about, you know, winning them, creating that mentality and developing mentality throughout being open and honest, but also for like, having the plan, having that, you know, what is the end game, what do you want this to look like at the end? And again, like I think, and if anyone walked up, you know, just looked over, they wouldn't be like, wow, Pep Guardiola, they must have made that one, but it's it's in the the development, how the information is being portrayed to the kids, you know, and how they're getting that information is so much more important. That's what we want to, you know, to to listen to that kind of stuff and hear how how that you're getting that across to your players, you know, again, for some of them initially they might be like, here's a big circle, we're just playing keep away. That point value changes the, how they're thinking about the space that they're involved in. Coming back to what you said, like, you know, we have in that activity that wasn't going well and you let it flow and you let it play out in it, like, you know, eventually you got what you wanted. I'm sure like, it wasn't that hard in the first place, but just giving them that extra time, so the simpler you can make things, the easier it is for younger players to understand that, you know, and if it is going wrong, you can give them that minute to try and figure out for themselves. You know, we use a natural stoppage, we'll send them into a little huddle, tell me three things you guys can be doing better as a team right now and they come up with that solution, you know. Yeah, it's so much better. Like, when you tell them you're like, oh, I guess, okay, well coach knows, when they come over, you like, you can see, like, I remember the kid like walking around, like his head got off and he was like, looked around and was like, wait, I get it. And like that moment was like, all right, dude, see, like it works. And there'll always be the one kid who'll tell you what the things you want them to hear. And then you have to ask them, you know, why, well, why you ask, you know, they all say, oh, communicate more. You like, well, okay, why? Yeah, well, yeah, what does that mean? So, oh, that's awesome. Yeah, that's my simple go to, you know, I love it. I love it. Yeah, John's jump right in, right out of the tree and just run down on the field and do it. So, all right, man, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Do as good reconnecting with you. And you know, thanks for getting out. I know you're you're braving the elements here to talk to us. So stay warm out there, man. Now worries guys. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. For sure. Have a good one, man. All right. Cheers. All right. We hope