#393 - The REAL Reason Trump is Rushing to Disclose UFO Files | Dan Farah

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I came through with PJ. Well, we made it happen, dude, and I'm glad we did. And that's nice to finally meet you. Thank you. You too, man. We're in the age of disclosure, huh? We are. We are. It's a wild time to be alive, you know? That is why I went with that title. You know, disclosure is not going to be a singular moment. It's going to be this process that unfolds over many years. And, you know, when we look back, 50 years from now, it'll be this little pocket of time that's the age of disclosure. The age where all this stuff comes out. And the truth comes out in steps. How did this whole documentary start out for you? So it's a kind of a long origin story, I would say. So, you know, I'm 46 and my childhood's the 80s and early 90s and grew up with movies like Close Encounters and ET. Close Encounters made the biggest impact on me. I was obsessed with that movie. X Files was running on TV when I was a kid and movies like Fire in the Sky. You know, we're making, we're getting a lot of attention. And I remember my cousins and I watching, watching Fire in the Sky, late at night, scared the crap out of us, but also made us super curious about this topic. And so my whole life just been interested in the topic. These big questions like, are we alone in the universe? Does the US government know more about this topic than the average person? That's kind of the common thesis and all that pop culture I grew up with, right? Close Encounters, ET, X Files. The one common idea is that two common ideas are, yes, there's life from elsewhere, but elements of the US government have been covering it up. So, I've always wondered if that was true. You know, and watched every movie and TV show, read every book over the years. And I always wished that someone would make a really credible, serious, nonsensational documentary about this topic. And only, and like basically set the bar, it only interviewing people who have direct knowledge of it as a result of working for the government. If elements of the government do in fact know more than the public, the idea would be to find that out, right? And no one ever made that film. My career ended up going into mainstream producing. I had a lot of, was very fortunate over the last 20 years, building movies and TV shows as a producer from the ground up, like big commercial stuff. The biggest that people know would be Ready Player One, which Spielberg directed. And then it was, yeah, it was on the set of Ready Player One watching Steven Spielberg direct. In my opinion, is the greatest filmmaker that's ever lived. And watching them direct was just unbelievably inspiring. And I started thinking then in the back of my mind, like I'd like to direct something after years of producing. I got my will spinning on what that might be. And I was actually doing research for a scripted project a couple years after Ready Player One came out. And in doing research, I was trying to, I was trying to learn how, how real the situation around this topic was. And so I got connected to some senior intelligence officials that had worked on this topic for the US government. And started having just private, private conversations and meals with those guys trying to understand the lay of the land. And I quickly realized how real the situation actually is. And these ideas that were putting our heads where kids, the movies like Close Encounters and E.T. weren't far off from the truth. There, there, there has in fact been a massive cover up of non-human intelligence life. And the government does take it very serious and does know a lot more than the public does. So in those, those conversations that originally were research for, for a scripted project, like I said, I started to realize that these people that I form relationships would be, that I form relationships with would be great interview subjects for that documentary that I always wish existed. And then I kind of shifted my focus to no longer doing research for a scripted project. And I was like, okay, I'm going to make the definitive documentary on this topic that I always wish existed. And this will be that thing that I direct to. And so sort of like the origin. And then from there, I started socializing with these intelligence officials I had met and their colleagues that I wanted to, I wanted to make a film that would bring the truth out about what is known that can legally be shared. All these people are privy to classify information, but you know, there's a lot they, they, they can share. They've just been historically discouraged from doing so. Right. I wanted to make the doc that gave them a platform to, to share what they lawfully could. And really kind of open the public's eyes to what's really been going on. And as I started to, as I started to socialize that, it started to catch momentum. You know, one, I would, I would have like a, you know, private, private meal with some one, one, one that tells official explaining what I wanted to do. They would think about it. They would come back and say, you know, what I, I think I'd be interested in participating, but let's see who else you can get before I say I will. And then they'd introduce me to a couple of their friends and sort of sent me down a rabbit hole. Eventually, I started getting passed up to senior members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the staff, the members, same thing with the Senate Armed Services Committee. And what I didn't know then that I know now is in that same moment, senior leadership on the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee had on their own in a classified setting uncovered this mass, this massive coverup they had, they had learned about it. And they knew it was real. They knew that not even intelligent life had been covered up for 80 years. They knew that there were elements of our government actively gatekeeping this information and keeping it from the public. They knew it was being kept from Congress, the White House, and the public. And they were trying to figure out a way to get the base facts out into the public. None of those politicians as elected leaders wanted to be the one guy out on the limb going on Fox News or CNN saying these extraordinary things and being subject to the pushback that didn't really have a way to tell the world this complicated situation. And so I was sort of in the right place at the right time in that while they were having that thought process, I was socializing that I wanted to make a documentary that would essentially do that. And so something really wild happened, which is basically there was this moment in time where while I was putting together the documentary, my film essentially became the plan for disclosure for those who had the knowledge. So this group of military government and intelligence officials that had learned the truth about the coverup decided my film would be the vehicle for disclosing that information. And I spent about three and a half years putting this together, both learning the lay of the land myself and really understanding what's real and what's not real. And you know, as they say, the saying, you know, who's who in the zoo, you know, like all the different players and all this and then making it, doing interviews over the course of three years. Yeah. In the beginning, when you said you were meeting with some intelligence officials that were sort of like guiding you in the right direction and telling you like if you can get more people to speak out, you know, know, we'll do it too publicly. How many of them, there's original intelligence people you were talking about were in the movie, a number of them, most of them, most of them, most of them, like who? So, for example, Jay Stratton. Okay. Yeah. Jay was, was he one of the first people you talked to? Yeah. Yeah. So Jay was in the process of retiring from government when I met him. At the time, he was the director of the U.S. government's U.A.P. task force, the large total government investigation of U.A.P. and non-human intelligence life. Right. His story is pretty amazing. He's really the central figure in the modern investigation of U.A.P. And, and frankly, in disclosure, he, he and, and it tells official name Dr. James Likatsky, goes by Jim, they co-founded ASAP, the investigation of U.A.P. that eventually became known as ATIP. There was this moment in time where ASAP essentially lost its funding and they, they carried on as a bootstrapped working group that went by ATIP. After that, he was tasked by a leadership in Naval Intelligence and, and at the DOD to put together the largest whole of government investigation that's ever existed and that's the U.A.P. task force. And he spent a couple years building it, handpicking key members. Some year, some year listeners, you know, have heard some of those names like David Krush who testified to Congress. He was a member of the U.A.P. task force. Yeah. He was, that was a big deal when he came out. Yeah. Yeah. So he was one of the people on J.S. team. Was he in the film? Yeah. He was in the film. There's some, there's some, there's some footage of him in the film. Yeah. His, his, uh, but no, he didn't do any interviews. Yeah. We didn't do a direct interview, but, but I had, um, I already knew I had him in the film through his congressional hearings where he was, right, saying that the most important stuff. So, um, and I liked having the, uh, the hearing footage in there. I think it makes people. So a lot of people, so much stuff that he was saying in front of Congress was nutty. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of people who watch the movie and, and they, they said to me, they're like, I had no idea those hearings even happened. Right. You know, people, people are just so busy and everyone's got their nine to five and, you know, putting food on the table with the kids and all those other priorities and like, you know, maybe they see it in their social media feed. Oh, there was this hearing in UFOs, but it doesn't really register for everybody. So, so J was there from the jump and he was sort of leading you around kind of like holding your hand, showing you the lay of the land, where to go, what, what tree, what branches to shake to, yeah, him and him and him and him and some other people in the film. There was, there was about, there was about four or five guys who were really guiding me in the early days and then, and then, um, once I got connected with the Senate Intelligence Committee specifically, um, I formed a really strong relationship with the, the guys who run the Senate Intelligence Committee staff. So most people don't know this actually. It's really interesting. So, um, the Senate Intelligence Committee, the members, the, the senators on the committee, they, they can kind of come and go, right? Like they, they, you know, they get assigned a committee and depending on who's, you know, running the Senate at the time, you know, it impacts it and they might spend, a senator might spend, you know, a year on it, two years on it, three years on it, but the staffers, uh, they can be there for many years. Right. Three years down, but a career long. Yeah, they can, you know, like I can be working for the, the, the, see, be a senior staff member for a decade. And, and the way they handle the, the staff work is, they break up topics. So like one guy will know everything about UAP. One guy will know everything about the technology. One guy will know everything about, you know, environmental issues. Sure. You name it. And so, I got introduced early on to the Senate until staff member who really owned the UAP topic for the two chairman, which were Rubio and Warner. Warner was the, was the chairman and Rubio was the vice chairman of the Senate and Telecommittee. And this staffers job was to basically just shake all the trees every day at all the different intelligence agencies and the military and, and learn everything and be hyper aware of everything. And he was a central figure in Rubio and, and, and, and Warner figuring out what was going on and uncovering this, this truth and learning all the, the reality of it. So I formed, I formed a career relationship with the, the senior, that senior staffer and, and his colleagues. And they were really, really helpful. Once, once Rubio decided to participate in the film and other senior senators like Senator Rounds from South Dakota, Senator Gillibrand from New York, from the Democratic Party, once they leaned in, then the committee staff was essentially told to help make sure that this doc is the definitive doc and is legit from start to finish. And that I don't end up interviewing the wrong person who shares bullshit, you know, that I don't end up misunderstanding the lay of the land and presenting it, you know, different than, than it is. And so they really help keep me, keep me on the right path. They, I, I shared with them, people as considering interviewing. Sometimes they would say, you know, stay clear of that person. Sometimes they would guide me to people, introduce me to a number of the people who did interviews in the film. I feel like that would make me so skeptical though. You know, if I'm having politicians and the intelligence people telling me who to talk to and who not to talk to, I'm automatically the wheels in my head are going, whoa. Well, it wasn't telling me. It was more, or even like subtly suggesting. Yeah. Well, a number of the very, like, indisputably legitimate people in my film were introduced to me by the sent-in talk committee. I mean, they're certain, you know, think about it. Like the people in my film are all, they have the most credible resumes. And like they're unimpeachably credible people. And they have all, they all have direct knowledge of this topic as a result of work with the government. They all have been discouraged from moment one of learning about this, not to talk about it publicly. You know, it makes sense that like it would help encourage them to do it if, you know, they're here from folks on the Senate Intelligence Committee that, hey, you know, people like Rubio and Gillibrand and Rounds have decided this is the best way for the truth to come out and we encourage you to participate in that. So yeah, if you've ever shopped online before, chances are high. You've purchased from a business that's powered by Shopify. It's easy to spot with that purple shop pay button. That's what we use for our merch store. That purple button has all your payment and shipping info. 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Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com/dannyjones all lowercase. Again, go to SHOPIFY.com/dannyjones. Shopify.com/dannyjones would change my perspective on this whole topic. And definitely was the that movie, uh, Mirage Men, um, by about Paul Bannowitz. I should remember that one. Yeah. Yeah. It's a crazy story, man. Just the whole industry that is there underneath the surface whose entire purpose is to throw people off the scent of what's really going on. Like the fact that this guy was living in New Mexico or Nevada, seeing these objects flying around and getting obsessed with them, the fact that they had like a whole group of people from the NSA and from the Air Force whose job was to convince this guy that he was seeing aliens from another world. When in reality, it was just their own technology that they were testing drove the guy crazy put in installed NSA next door to him to beam shit into his house because he was using radios and shit to the tech stuff. He was going nuts. And they were like beaming stuff into his house saying that they were civilization for another planet. They had run out of water and they were coming here and they knew that this guy was a big deal in move on and they knew move on. This was in like the 60s, I think 70s, maybe they knew that move on had been penetrated by the Soviets because the Soviets were trying to get more information and intelligence on what we what we had going on in our Air Force bases and our war weapon technology, all that kind of stuff during the Cold War. So they're like, oh, this is a great opportunity to just convince this guy it's aliens. He's going to go tell everyone and move on and that's going to get that's going to poison the well. He's going to be a conduit of disinfo for the Soviet spies who are trying to get information on us. The guy ended up going to a mental institution and dying and like I was like after that. I was like Whoa. Okay. You know, let's say that's fucking Hall of Mirrors. That's a real situation. Yeah. For sure. But you got to also remember, you know, I learned that all that as well. And I personally had the same reaction as you. But then, you know, you gotta realize the role that that storyline plays in a bigger picture, right? Why is it that elements of the intelligence committee, not the intelligence committee, of the intelligence community would make up a story like that to try to have it end up, as you said, received by the Russians as real, right? Because the answer is because there is, in fact, a high-stake secret Cold War race playing out. And there has been since the 40s regarding non-human technology. And anywhere you can throw off your adversary, it's strategic to do so. Sure. So just because that situation is real doesn't mean the bigger picture isn't it? You know, there's actually, I've been told from my most senior relationships inside of military government and the intelligence committee that a couple, I'm not going to say here, but a couple of the more, the whistle quote unquote, not whistle blows, a couple of the people who have come out in a big way in the public to talk about this topic and reveal something they learned, something specific they experienced or saw. It's the same backstory. You know, they did, they did experience that, but it was staged for them because at the time there was a, there was a, in those situations, there was either a Russian or a Chinese unit of spies that were being fed information through this public spectacle, like the Paul thing. So look, I think the reality of it is everyone I interviewed, despite their political and ideological differences, all told me the same thing. They all made it super clear that the existence of non-human intelligence life has been getting covered up since, since the 40s. There are these elements within the US government within various agencies within the Air Force and the DOE and some private contractors who have been gatekeeping this and covering it up for years and keeping it from the public. And you know, the movie, I'm proud to say, has made a big impact in that it opened a lot of people's eyes inside a government who didn't necessarily realize all this and then the people who had already realized it are taking that new interest and really accelerating, accelerating disclosure. It led to, it led to like four weeks ago, Trump gave a presidential directive to declassify evidence of non-human intelligence life and UAP. And I'm sure you saw that, you know. And in the, in the weak sense, his two of his cabinet members, Pete Heggsett, the Secretary of War and Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, have been basically going, going through the process of trying to identify what evidence exists that can safely be declassified and shared with the American public without becoming a threat to national security. And what I've been told through my relationships is that they are receiving a lot of pushback from the folks who have gatekeepers despite the fact that there's a presidential directive. They're still getting blocked from getting to this very real evidence that exists. Yeah, the idea is that, I'm correct if I'm wrong, but what I got from your documentary was in the 40s after Roswell, all this stuff got sucked up into private contractors and it's been being controlled by private contractors. And people have rotated in and out of top level positions over the decades. And now the new people that come in don't even get briefed on this stuff. And essentially, all of that, whatever you want to call it, black budget stuff or recovered craft, is being controlled by the private sector. And even like top to your generals came and get access to it in the government. So the government, there's like the secret war between the US government and private industry trying to wrestle control of this stuff, whatever it is. So private industry certainly has a lot of control over the situation right now. But there's still elements of, for example, the CIA and the Air Force and the Department of Energy, like career bureaucrats within those organizations that are very much involved with the defense contractors. But in my film Rubio breaks down how when you give technology to a private company, like a defense contractor to understand it, which is the only option the government has, the government doesn't have a room full of engineers. And, you know, unless they want to hide behind FOIA, they want to hide behind FOIA. But more importantly, if you recover a piece of exotic technology and you want to try to reverse engineer it or fully understand it, there's just not a room for those engineers sitting in an office at, you know, the DOD. And so, you know, he explained how, you know, you give that technology to a defense contractor. And then, and then as you said, over the years, they keep working out it. They stay constant. The government overseer, you know, retires or dies or, you know, changes. And then the next guy knows a little bit about the program, but doesn't know everything. And then the guy after that doesn't even know the program exists, but the defense contractor is still chugging along. And so, you get to this point where the defense contractors hold a lot of the cards. And at the same time, though, there are still these career bureaucrats that, you know, are there throughout multiple administrations within the CIA, the Air Force, and the Department of Energy that are very much involved in this. And so, everyone in my film that talked about this, this, this hidden program referred to as the legacy program, they, they, they all say that it has just been, it was immediately removed from congressional oversight when it started in the 40s. And so, the tug of war really is elected officials, and there are pointed officials like the Secretary of War and Director of National Intelligence, trying to wrestle this information out of these career bureaucrats and the defense contractors. And it's a complicated situation as the, as the film shows, it's not, it's not a black and white situation. It's not like, and the craziest part about all that is the United States is probably the only country that that's happening in because all the other countries, the government just controls everything. There are no private contractors. Yeah. Which also, you know, leads to one of the other really important takeaways for me from my interviews and, and in the film, which is, you know, Rubio also expresses this really clearly, which is the, the concern that if we don't take this more seriously as a nation and make the, make it known that this is a valid area of inquiry, that it's a real situation, right? And cause our scientific community and academia to want to take it serious, then we are likely going to lose this race to our adversaries because our adversaries don't need the public to decide it's important. They can just tell them it's important. Like she can just take the smartest scientist in China and say, you're going to work on this, you know, they don't, yeah, who can do the same thing? And so it's hard to simply put, it's hard to win a technology race if most your scientists don't even know it's real, you know? And so, you know, the analogy I often heard was the space race analogy. Would we have won the space race if Kennedy didn't step to the microphone and give that big, famous speech at Rice University and say, we're going to get to the moon. Here's why it's important. We win this race. He, he articulated it in a way that the same kind of way you would have to articulate the importance of this topic. He said, space technology like nuclear technology has no conscious of its own. Yeah. It's up to mankind, whether it's used for good or bad. And that's why it was important that the, he felt it was important that the US lead in, in this new frontier. So we can make sure that it's used for the betterment of all mankind and not to create another sea of war. That was his whole like thesis, right? Right. And then the country rallied behind him and scientific community rallied behind him. And then, you know, we won the space race. So a number of the people I interviewed made the point of, you know, their opinion is that we need that sort of like level set with the American public and that sort of like, you know, mission made a national priority on this front so that we win this technology race. Do you think there's any sort of like super high level top, top to your backstop agreement between all of these nation states like the United States, China and Russia about disclosure? But do you think there's any like super deep back channel like look, there's got to be some coordination here. I think so multiple people I interviewed told me this isn't something we got into in the film, but multiple people told me that in the past, there was information sharing between China and the US, excuse me, sorry, Russia and the US, not China, Russia and the US and that that apparently broke down about 15 years ago. And so I don't, I know one's ever told me that currently there is still active communication and strategizing, but many people told me about information sharing back in the day between the US and Russia and they always, they always gave the same examples they basically said there was so much UAP activity near nuclear weapons sites that it was it was clear to both leaders of both nations that they needed to make the other aware so that no one misinterpreted a UAP as an attack. Right. And they were happening all over the place, not just in the US, they're happening in Russia, UK, all over the place. What do you think, has anyone ever, anyone that you think is credible over, tells you that that there is an active strategy ever told me that. But I think about it all the time. I sometimes wonder, is there some deep level of the bankers that run the world or whatever that know about this stuff? The people that are above the presidents, you know? - Well, look, President Trump just didn't he just announce recently that he's gonna meet with she four times over the next 12 months, something that's never happened. Maybe, maybe it's a coincidence that those meetings are happening while disclosure is unfolding, following his presidential directive. - That's interesting. You know, but I just, I'm skeptical that Trump has any power to do that. I'm skeptical to go out of the president, any politicians in the United States have that kind of power. - I think there's a change happening here. I think the current administration is really actively trying to get their hands on the reins of the situation. - Yeah. - Whereas every other administration has been kept so much out of the loop that they didn't even have a shot at grabbing the reins. - Mother's Day is coming up. And if you think flowers and chocolates are gonna carry you this year, listen up. This is your chance to get her something she'll actually use and appreciate every single day. And that's why Hexclad is such a smart gift. Most cookware makes you choose between great performance and easy cleanup. Hexclad gives you both. You get the searing power and heat control of stainless steel with the convenience of non-stick all in one pan. No peeling junk coatings off your frying pan and no scrubbing forever after dinner. And what surprised me most was how quick and easy the cleanup was. I'm no longer having to soak the pans for hours and then wrestle with them with a sponge just to get all the grease off the bottom. 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Were there any people that you tried to get on your movie that were hesitant because of fear of any sort of backlash or anything? - Yeah, there were a number of people. There were a handful of officials who, because of their roles at the time, couldn't participate, couldn't go on camera. - Because of their roles at the time. - Yeah, 'cause they were either senior in the military or in the government and just couldn't do it, intelligence officials. And then there were a couple people, and I was a few people actually, who ultimately decided that it would be too dangerous for them to speak up about what they know. The one that always stays in my head is a, someone who's part of the special forces community, who is gonna do an interview and talk about what he had learned and then ultimately, he used very specific words, this have stayed in my head, he ultimately told me that after a long conversations with his wife, they both determined he would be forfitting his life if he participated in the film. And I always thought the use of the word forfitting was very specific and terrifying. - Yeah, you know, you know, everyone here. - And especially coming from a special forces guy. - Yeah, and it almost, the vibe I got when I first heard that was the kind of word choice that made you think like someone else had said that to him, you know? Like someone said, you beforefitting a life and then using those words, 'cause it's such an unusual word choice, you know? But, you know, put yourself in my shoes, man, like I had, I immediately was like, well, of course I definitely do not want. You or me in any situation remotely like that, you know? So, you know, of course, let's, you know, let's not do an interview and, you know, I always made a point also of telling everyone I talk to, which is the truth, I would say, I don't want to know anything, I shouldn't know, you know? Don't tell me, don't cross any lines, don't tell me anything that's classified, don't tell me anything high as a, you know, just a member of the public shouldn't know, you know? - Right. - Don't want to be in some crazy dangerous situation. You know, there's a lot of information that people have on this topic from their work for the US government that they can lawfully talk about. And that's where I wanted to live and I wanted this movie to live, you know? And that stuff's fascinating enough. It also does beg the question though, of like, what's on the other side of that line? Because what's revealed in my film is shocking, you know? People, seniors tell them the official talking about recoveries of crafts of non-human origin and bodies of not, you know, not human bodies being in these crashes and talking about the extent of the cover up. It's also mind blowing, it just makes you, it's impossible not to get your wheels spinning on what's on the other side of that line. You know? Like if this is what they can lawfully share, what's the stuff they can't lawfully share yet? You know? Like that's, that's pretty wild. When you go down that rabbit hole, thinking of what the possibilities are, you know? - So after everything, what is your high, high level 30,000 foot view of what this phenomenon actually is? - Ooh. Look, I think, I think it's been made pretty clear to me that we're not dealing with one non-human intelligent life that we're dealing with multiple forms of intelligent life from multiple origins. And, you know, essentially, the universe's full of life. And so extraterrestrials. I think, I think all things on the table, I think it could be extraterrestrials, and I think this concept of interdimensional beings as fantastical as that sounds could be one of the other possibilities of origin. There's also the possibility of there being other intelligent life that's been here all along and that Earth has been the home to, from, you know, home four to the beginning since the beginning. - Future humans, human time drive, I guess, I guess it'd be foolish at this point to take anything off the table, you know? - Yeah. - But, you know, one of the most interesting things to me about the grays that you see in close encounters and in all the media lore is that they're bipedal upright walking hominids with two eyes, two legs, two arms, fingers, toes, and that's, that's us. Like if life were to evolve on any other Goldilocks planet with different atmosphere, different gravity, different chemical makeup, maybe a whole entire water world with no land, what are the chances that it's gonna evolve to be so similar to us? I mean, I'm not smart, I don't know the answer, but I'm sure it's not, I mean, I've talked to anthropologists who look at this stuff and they say it's a very, very little probability. - It's, it's fascinating. - Yeah. And then you have, you know, people like, um, who was at Timberchet that said there was underwater bases, just, he's casually walking down the street. - Yeah. - They're underwater bases, they're down there. - Not Tim, look, Tim's, Tim's a great guy and, - Yeah, he's great. - He's really, uh, he's really on top of this issue. The, him and some of his colleagues in, in, on the house side of Congress, that are really on top of this. It's, so it's him, Anna Luna from Florida, it's Burleson from Missouri, Moscow, it's from Florida, Carson from Minneapolis. That's, that's like a short list of people that are really on top of it and trying to share what they can't, Tim, you know, Tim, I saw that, that too, and I've talked to him about it. - Multiple of that. - Multiple leaders in the Navy, in the US Navy, you know, ranging from admirals to naval intelligence officials have told Congress about craft moving at impossible speeds under the water, past our submarines, and so much so that they, - Tim, Tim, Tim's one of those people. - Yeah. - So much so that they, they're making a logical conclusion that there's bases, and it's crazy, it's crazy, man. You know, apparently, you know, I'm no naval expert, so if there's people listening who, you know, know I'm off on this, that's fine, but apparently our submarines can only go like 40 or 50 miles an hour, and these things are going hundreds of miles an hour. - Right. - There was one that was tracked in Aguidia, right, in Puerto Rico, that this was going like 500 miles per hour under the ocean, or something insane. - It's crazy. - Yeah. - It's absolutely crazy. I mean, look, the reason, well, Jay Stratton was the one who changed using, he's the reason we no longer use the word UFO, right? Because-- - That's some of a bitch. - I got a phone to pick with him about that. - No, I think he was right, though, because UFO stands for unidentified flying object, and he knew early on. that a lot of this activity is happening in erotions and in space where you're not flying, right? And so, on identified anomalous phenomena became the catch-all for you to like to be a foe butter though. UFO is catchy. But here's the other reason they did it is, UFO has this cultural stigma. It makes people giggle and not take it serious and sort of changing the optics help the conversation. - UAP is like the suit and tie version. - Yeah, the suit and tie version, yeah. That's another wall thing that came out of my interviews, a number of the officials, including a senior CIA official, Jim Semyvann, talked about how the program that has gate kept this, the legacy program that has gate kept this since the 40s, they created the stigma around this topic in the late 40s or early 50s as like a security rapper, as a security system, like pretty smart idea. You don't want people looking into something, put it into society, they put this idea into society, that you're a wacky person. If you look into it, you're nuts, you'll have your reputation ruined. - Like a couple of movies about it. - Yeah, fun, some movies making it look silly and no one will take it serious. No one will want to look into it. No real journalist will want to go look into it. If the media is not paying attention to it, then the public's not paying attention. It's kind of genius, but the problem is, it got compounded over the years by multiple generations and then it got to the point where the average person just thought it was like talking about Bigfoot. It's ridiculous and the average scientist didn't think it was real. The stigma is a couple of the officials of my film talk about how this stigma that was created originally with a national security intention of keeping it secret. While they figured out what was going on, it's grown into this new national security threat where we could be falling behind in this technology race because our scientific community doesn't even know it's real as a result of the stigma. So a big mission for people in my film when I talked to them off camera about why, what was driving them to want to participate in the film. One of the big reasons was to put an end to this antiquated bullshit stigma around this topic and to make sure people just simply understand that it's a real situation. But it's a valid area of inquiry. Yeah, the stigma led to Jay Stratton talks in the film about how when you try to raise this issue up the flagpole within the government, he was constantly faced with the stigma. And then the people who've been covering this up have weaponized the stigma. If for so many stories of high level Navy fighter pilots who see something in the air that's indisputably not from here. And before they can make an official report, somebody from the legacy program approaches them. You know, basically like makes jokes, makes them uncomfortable, says things like, hey, where are we going to send the tinfoil hats? You know, like, you know, what's going to be your nickname now? That kind of stuff, you know, where you could really quickly see how a senior fighter pilot would just be like, you know what, I'm just not going to report this. I don't need this bullshit, you know? And so they weaponize it. Dude, there's a crazy, it's a great story in Annie Jacobson's book, Area 51, where she explains how when the CIA first started test flying, their first jet propelled airplanes. And I forget what year it was super early. They would send the CIA test pilots up with gorilla masks and the cockpits. So in the case they got into visual distance with a commercial aircraft, they'd wear their gorilla mask. Wow. So they tried to go to the bar later and be like, you know, I saw this airplane powered by jets. That's like crazy. Oh, yeah, who was flying it? A gorilla. You're like fucking throwing a curveball into the story. That's crazy. Yeah, dude. That's wild. Yeah. So imagine, man, imagine if that was, that was probably what the 40s they were doing that 60s. Imagine what they're fucking doing now, bro. Dude, that's crazy. That is crazy. That is wild. So this legacy program, is this a monolithic program? Or is there factions of this? I think, well, how do you, those two choices you just laid out? How do you define those differently? So you talk about, in the movie, you hear about the legacy program. You hear other people talk about the legacy program on the internet. It sounds like this big model, how people talk about the CIA. Oh, yeah. How the CIA is. So it's not a big model. So it's not that in that. I learned pretty quickly, you know, leadership of the CIA doesn't necessarily know about this. You know, the director of the CIA, it's a political point. It's a political point. Yeah, they're there for, they could be there for four years, eight years, whatever. And the CIA is thousands and thousands of employers. Yes. So someone reveals in my film that it's the head of science and technology at the CIA that controls this topic. It's one person who could be there for a long time. And there's career bureaucrats within the Air Force and within the Department of Energy that really run the legacy programs interest in this. That's my understanding of the situation from all my interviews. It's not. But my, what I'm saying is like, is the legacy program one big program in one inside of one umbrella underneath one company? Or is it multiple companies? So it's multiple companies all working together. Not competing. No. So from, you know, what I, what, what the big takeaway was from all my interviews is that the CIA acts as the quarterback of all this, the CIA acts as the operational command. So sits at the top of the, the org chart. And then the Air Force is used for operations. So they have the airplanes and they have the warehouses, the hangers. And they can, they can do the retrievals, right? And then the defense contractors are used for reverse engineering. They are only given, you know, certain technology and tasked with certain, you know, reverse engineering work. And then the Department of Energy is apparently a key player in the situation because they have the best experts on technology that gives off great amounts of energy and anything related to aviation. Yeah. And they, you know, own, own the space of anything related to nuclear technology. And a lot of the UAP activity is at sites involved in the nuclear process, ranging from nuclear weapons sites to uranium mines, to, you know, processing centers. So they, they also have a classification system that allows to keep all of this extremely secret that they get to, you know, use the classification system that was designed for anything nuclear. Right. So the classification system that they go by is like outside of the intelligence community's classification system, it's even more, more secret. Did you talk to anybody that worked for any of these private industry companies, any of these private military industrial companies? No. None of, no one from any of the defense contractors would, would, would participate. Did you talk, sorry, I did, I talked to a couple of people that used to work for some of the key players on the defense contracting side. They would not go on camera, but they helped inform me of the, the lay of the land. Give me, give me insight. People who were, I mean, those, those meetings were interesting, you know, they'd be in person and be told to leave my cell phone at home and, you know, really, you know, no way with the defense contractors. Yeah. Yeah. No way of, uh, cell phones can be trapped. Did you talk to any of the CIA science and technology folks? No. Did you try to? I didn't, because, um, a number of the people in my film made it clear to me that, uh, those folks, you know, slam the door on even them when they were inside a government, you know, so, um, you know, Jade, Jay Stratton, when he was running the UAP task force, uh, he figured out who the key gatekeeper was at the CIA and, um, he went to go to talk to him, literally knocked on his door and, uh, wanted to see if he could get some answers to some of his big questions and, um, you know, if you knew that this person had 80 years of, of knowledge, you know, and, uh, essentially just legitimately, like, literally had the doors like this face. Wow. Yeah. And another crazy thing is a lot of these people at CIA who are in charge of science and technology or other levels of CIA spookiness, they all end up in the private sector, like one of the most recent directors of science and technology for like seven or 10 years now works at the MITRE Corporation. So there's this revolving door with the CIA and these giant private contractors. Yeah. Yeah. And they know the contractors know that these people have top secret access to shit and they're going to bring all that with them, which is why they can get these insanely high salaries when they move there. It's a, which is a form of corruption, you know, it's a flawed system. So, and then the other question is, how do these, where are they getting all the fucking money to do this stuff? Well. You know, as Dave Grush testified to Congress about and there's a number of the officials in my film say there's been misappropriation of funds, you know, money that's supposed to go to one thing that actually goes to this. On top of that, I have been told that there's a lot of off-book funding from the public sector, wealthy, just wealthy people who are providing funding for certain technology, reverse engineering work, the hopes that they'll get some, they'll get the benefit down the line from some technological breakthrough that's been gleamed, you know, it's a lot of money out there in the world, you know. And look, the thing, you know, people will take, one of the things people take away from the movie is that all of these folks who have been involved in covering this up, they've all had their reasons for doing so, you know, that's why I keep saying it's not a black and white situation, you know. Some of these people, you know, likely if you, you know, if you put a gun to the head of people within the CIA that have touched this over the years, likely they would honestly say that they think they're doing the right thing, you know, that they think we are in a, we are in a technology race with adversaries, and so the best course of action ultimately is to not share with the public what we know and don't know, because that also will tell our adversaries. That's, they might just come out, that's where they come out on, you know, and I don't think that any of these people are villains, I really don't, I just think it's a complicated situation and there's no easy answer, but I do think at the same time that we've gotten to a place where we would benefit from the basic facts being known. I do not think that a president or any leader of our country should step to the microphone and literally say everything we know and don't know, like that's pretty stupid when we're in a race with adversaries, but I think the base facts that we're not alone in the universe, that the US government has in fact retrieved technology of non-human origin, that adversaries have as well, and that we are in this technology race, those base facts can be comfortably shared and what I think it will do is I think it will motivate the scientific community and private industry and academia to really lean into this, and I think it will lead to a whole error of technological breakthroughs that we wouldn't otherwise get to. Yeah, and then you have the whole conflict with like the energy, like if we have this ability to have free, clean energy around the world and it's been covered up and hidden for this long, this is going to disrupt the whole petroleum industry, which is like, you know, the whole world is propped up on oil, right, so we've been hiding free energy, but the energy source thing goes back to my point where I think some of these people have involved in gatekeeping this, yeah, it's the race we're in with adversaries that they worry about, so if you look at the technology, these crafts are, it's revealed in my film how these crafts are working essentially, right, they are tapping into an energy source that we are currently not tapping into, and whether that is so called free energy, you know, zero point energy, or whether it's using quantum tanglement to bring large amounts of energy from somewhere else to to that area, whichever where they're achieving creating this much energy in a localized area, they're warping space time in a localized area, they're creating with the scientists in my film describe as a bubble around the craft, and that separates the craft from the environment around it. It allows it to do things that, you know, this is kind of what Bob Lizard described, right, in his film. He did? Well, it allows the craft to operate in a way that looks like it's defying physics as we know it, but it's not defying physics as we know it. It's working within physics as we understand it, it's just in its own space time. But the reason I just went down the road is the point is, yes, if we figure that out, if it becomes known to mankind as technology exists and that it has been cracked, yes, it could, as you said, solve the energy crisis in theory, it could revolutionize the way we live, but the people who have been, you know, keeping this information would also say it could be used by a bad actor very easily to deliver a weapon of mass destruction in the blink of an eye. And that's a terrifying thought. And so see how it's not a black, it's not a black or white situation, yes, it could solve the energy crisis, but, you know, a bad actor in his garage could make, you know, a weapon of mass destruction all of a sudden, and that's absolutely terrifying. So, you know, again, the people who have been involved in this would say, that's the only reason you need to just keep it locked down and keep it quiet. Right. That's all, like, crazy hypothetical situation, imagine some of the people that are on the boards of these private industry companies also, like, own a huge stake in oil companies, too. And like, if I get this out, I'm going to lose billions of dollars. So I'm just going to keep a secret for as long as I can and fucking hold the gun to the head of every government around the world knowing that if I wanted to, I could fucking, like, it seems like this stuff does a lot of weaponized. It could be more powerful than every military around the world and every government combined. Yeah. I mean, you don't, right now, generally speaking, my understanding is that you essentially need to be a nation state to have the means to build nuclear weapons. If this technology and the ability to tap into energy like this was made public, you do not need to be a nation state. You could literally be a bad actor in your garage in middle America. And you could make something as destructive as a nuclear weapon. You could be a rogue breakaway military that's more powerful than any nation state. You could, yeah, or do you want this ending up in the hands of, like, terrorists, like, you know, imagine cartels get free energy, fucking weapons, and UFOs. It's crazy. But so when you talk about like this, then you quickly start to realize, you know, no matter how much people like us who grew up watching close encounters in E.T. and interested in this would like to know the truth and learn about it all, you quickly get to, like, having to be honest and understand why these people have kept this all secret. It's a complicated mess, you know? And they kill people. From what I understand, people have, I mean, just look at the bowing shit with the bowing whistleblowers with the whole bowing lawsuit. Or did you follow that? Yeah. All these people that were like in line to go in front of Congress or give their testimony just like, you know, killing themselves by shooting themselves in the head five times. It's horrible. It's crazy. It's really horrible. Drinking in your 20s and drinking in your 30s are two very different experiences. Back then, a few drinks was no problem. These days, even one glass of wine with dinner will leave me feeling like I got hit by a truck the next morning. And that's why I started using Cheers Restore. Most people think it's just dehydration, but a lot of what makes you feel like shit the next day is what alcohol is doing to your brain and your liver when you're sleeping. Cheers Restore is a dual action after alcohol aid designed to support both. It uses DHM, which works while you sleep to help smooth out that rebound effect in your brain and cysteine, which supports your liver as it clears alcohol byproducts. I keep a bottle at home and I keep these packets with me when I'm out on the go. I take three capsules after my last drink or before bed and I am always shocked by how amazing I feel the next day. Better sleep, clear your head and ready to go. Their claim is wake up feeling at least 50% better or your money back. Cheers has sold over 50 million doses and it's in over 30,000 stores like Target, CVS, and Walgreens. Take Cheers Restore after your last drink or before going to bed and wake up feeling at least 50% better or your money back. For a limited time, our listeners are getting 20% off their entire order when they use the code D-A-N-N-Y at CheersHealth.com. Just head on over to CH-E-E-R-S-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com and use the code Danny for 20% off. After you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about them and please help support the show by telling them we sent you. One of the interviews subjects of my film who I got really close with and who I think is a great guy and one of the most brilliant people I've met, one of the most interesting people I've ever met too, is Hal Pudoff, Dr. Hal Pudoff. He's a senior scientist, he's been involved in a lot of eye-to-classified programs dealing with UAP and all sorts of other things. We've had a lot of conversations like the one we're having now about the pros and cons, disclosure and why it's such a complicated situation and all these special interests and all these concerns, these valid concerns people have and where he ultimately comes out on it as a guy who's been around this topic for decades and is in his 80s now. He ultimately comes out thinking that we need to make it a humanitarian issue in the same way that we do with nuclear technology. Just tackle it as a species, like world leaders need to just come together on a plan for how to use this for good and to safeguard the public from destruction. There's laws that were made around nuclear technologies, like you can't, probably a company can't go and say, "Hey, I'm going to build a nuclear weapon." They would be stopped. By who? The government. It's illegal to build nuclear weapons. Yeah, but you think the government could really stop them? I have four star generals can't get access to the secret programs. What's going to stop them from building, attaching a nuke to a TikTok? Maybe. But look, I think there could be a attempt to tackle this. This stuff makes nuclear weapons obsolete though, not obsolete, but it would create superior weapons. So anyway, like I mean, look, maybe Hal's right, maybe he's wrong, but his outlook is that because this technology could be so revolutionary to the way we live, and because the truth about all this could, could, could, in theory, unite humanity, it could make, it could make all humanity realize that we have more in common than we have differences. Right. And because of his potential for all this positive outcome, he thinks that the best thing is to do a level set with the public and make this a humanitarian issue where we figure out as a whole how to deal with it. Now look, that might just not be in the cards, that might not be possible. The dynamics might not, the dynamics between us and our adversaries might not allow for that. But it's, um, it's certainly, um, in my opinion, the most interesting time to be alive because some, some, some amount of the truth is, is coming out right now. You know, my film makes it clear that there has, in fact, been a cover-up of non-human judging life. This technology does exist. And now we have, you know, we had a president put this, put this disclosure directive in motion. And so it's, it's playing out right now. We'll, we'll see, you know. Um, and also, why haven't we seen, do they plan on using any of this stuff on the battlefield? You know, that's an interesting point. I'm glad you brought that up. Someone, someone really senior that, uh, in the tells community, it's in my film, um, told me that, um, when, when he formed, uh, confidential relationship with someone in the leadership of the legacy program, he asked them straight up, um, would we break this technology out, uh, on the battlefield to, you know, win a war or prevent a war? And, uh, the answer quickly was no. That we would not, we would not show this card, uh, unless it was to prevent nuclear destruction. Like the last, like, uh, like a last, last, the last thing, last card that we played basically, um, and the idea being that the reason being once, once you show this card, then again, you're showing your adversaries, what you know and don't know and you're, you're, you're opening this giant can of worms and you're telling the public we got this and, um, and I remember when I was told that I was, I was, I was, those, those pretty mind blowing. Um, so now I don't think, I don't think it's been, I don't think it's been used. Did they give you any idea of how they could weaponize it? Uh, yeah, I mean, if you, you know, as I subscribed in the film, you know, you create a bubble and, you, if you warp space time in a localized area, you can create a bubble around anything, a craft, uh, you know, a weapon of mass destruction, anything. So like the way you, the way you could use it, it's I think pretty, pretty clear. It says, so you can move a, a weapon from point A to point B instantaneously. Yeah. Or a craft with weapons on it. Right. Um, I mean, if you, if you go from, if you can go from, if you can travel great distances in the blink of an eye, then, yeah, that's how you do it. What do you, I'm curious, you've talked a lot about this topic. Like, where, where would you come at? And when you, when you start talking about the ways that, this technology can be used, you know, for bad, but then, you know, solve the energy crisis sounds awesome, right? Um, where do you come at? Do you think, do you think it's possible to, to make it a humanitarian issue and, and figure it out with our allies and adversaries at a high level? Or do you think that ultimately game and people's, you know, game and ship will come in and few politics will come in and, and, and I think ultimately, there's probably so many layers above this and above the, uh, so many layers above, not only the politicians and the CIA, but above that, you have like this, this decentralized mafia layer and banking layer that controls all of them and probably own some of these corporations and own these politicians and control everything that happens and that just like work behind the curtain. And, um, it's hard to be optimistic that like humanity can rise up and overthrow that, you know, especially with the like all this Epstein stuff that's come out that like basically shows how these people work behind the scenes and that like politicians are basically like fake stand-ins. Um, yeah, you know, again, I hope like Dave Grush was when he came out and did that and all these congressional hearings started happening. Like it gave me a lot of hope like, you know, maybe we can see shine. They can shine just enough light to get people because now I, I will say this at least now the UFO topic in general, I don't think it's stigmatized anymore. It's completely out of the back. That's a completely normal thing for everyone to talk about, right? Yeah. I actually think that's the thing on the most proud of, uh, with my film with the agent's closures, I really think it puts the nail in the coffin for the stigma. We all know everybody knows UFOs are real. You can't watch that film and not be like, okay, this 100%. Yeah. 100%. So what's the next level of that? You know, like where does that move to next? The thing is, when there is this gap in knowledge, people are just going to fill it with whatever. We're going to fill it with whatever they want to believe. They're going to fill it with aliens, extraterrestrials, time-traveling humans, angels and demons or ledger stuff. And again, that stuff, it's like, there's factions. It seems like in the intelligence and military communities that all have different views on this stuff. Like there's people that are in the military and in intelligence and in high levels of government who think that it's like angel, JD Vance said that. Yeah. He thinks they're angels and demons. Not people are applying their, their belief systems to it, which is not surprising, you know. That's what happens when they don't give, when the, when the people in charge don't give a definitive analysis. Yeah. They just sort of like, here's this crazy shit, do with it what you will. That's why I really do think we need the equivalent of Kennedy's space race speech that he gave at race university. Like just that level set of, we have retrieved craft, actual aircraft, like technology, not spiritual stuff, technology of non-human origin. And so have our adversaries and our eyes. And there is this race. And we need to win this race for the following reasons, right? Just like that kind of a level set. I think that will take it out of all this like guessing game of what it is and just make it a real thing for people. The reason I think the space race analogy is so great too is like, think about it. Like, there's probably a lot of people at that time, you know, throughout the country that the idea, like if you were to go up to them prior to Kennedy's speech and say, you know, the moon, the thing up in the sky there, we're going to go there, they would laugh at you and be like, that sounds crazy, you know? Like in the context of that time, it probably sounds crazy, right? Right. But then a president, you know, and other leaders in the country saying that that's a real thing that can happen. And we're going to make it a national priority. It made it like an accepted idea that that's possible, you know? And then people put their brain power towards it. So I think like that, that's sort of a level set with the American public is, I think what we're going to get. And I think we'll get it relatively soon. What was how and Eric Davis, what was their view on what this stuff was? Did they have like a singular view or was do they think it was a, they think they think it's a, you know, for lack of better words, like a like a smorgasbord of like possibilities. The, you know, interdimensional, extraterrestrial, ultra-terrestrial, you know, might have been, there might be a species that has been here all along. And some at some point long time ago broke off the human family tree. You know, there's so much of our planet that we haven't explored, probably, you know? Yeah, we explored more of the surface of Mars than we have of our own ocean floors. In our ocean floors, you know, people would say, we have an entire continent that's essentially, you know, on, on, on explored. Yeah. I mean, Antarctica is just like a big mystery box. Great place to hide shit. And you could, an entire species could have, you know, could, could be under under the ice in Antarctica. We have no idea. We're, weren't a little bubble, you know? I mean, it could be like, literally, I mean, I'm making a joke here, but I mean, like, you watch a movie like Black Panther, and you're like, you know what? It's an entire advanced species that's co-existed alongside humanity. Right. They've developed ahead of us. They have technology that we don't have. They're worried about our, our, our blossoming, you know, technological advancements. Right. And they don't want us to end up having their technology because it could destroy the world. Right. You're like, hmm, all right. Very familiar story. Yeah. So, you know, look, there's a lot of possibilities. The, the only thing that's certain is that, you know, number of people in my film know as a fact from their, from their work with the government that crafts of non-human origin have indeed crashed or been caused to crash. And we have recovered them. It's tangible technology. And in some cases, there's been non-human beings in these crafts. And, you know, the other thing is, you know, they say people say it in my film, but there is indisputable video evidence that exists. It's just classified. So, you know, the best we can get now is credible people who put in any of it. I have not seen anything that's classified now. But the best we can get now is people who have great reputations, putting their credibility on the line, saying on camera, I have seen with my own eyes, craft of non-human origin, I have seen non-human beings, I have seen evidence that it's classified that is indisputable, like that's the best we can get now, until that information can legally be. Those videos and photos can legally be shared. Well, the best you can get is some incredible putting the rep on the line saying, I have seen that with my own eyes, it exists, right? And so that's where we are now. And I think in this age of disclosure we're living, and I think we will eventually get to some of that stuff being on classified and shared with some kind of thoughtful context. And it seems like these things have certainly have the ability to make themselves visible or not at will. You know, I think one of the interesting things you and Rogan were talking about on his podcast, which was a great analogy I thought, how taking a photo of fish under the water, the water basically warps and occludes and blurs out the fish, you can barely see it because there's this layer right of elements between you and the fish. And like the same thing with these UFOs, like if they're creating some sort of a gravity bubble around them or something or warping space time around them, it's going to be like essentially cloakable. Yeah. So people always say, you know, the average person always says, well, if these things are out there, how come no one's ever gotten a good video with their iPhone, everyone's got a 4K camera in the pocket. Yeah, everyone has a 4K camera in the pocket. But it's the same reason why everyone with a 4K camera in the pocket can't get clear video of fish under the ocean from above the ocean. It's not possible. You know, if you're if you know the Koypon analogy, if you if you stand above a Koypon and you see the fish down there with your naked eye and you take out your iPhone, you try to film them, it's going to look all distorted because you're literally filming through a barrier, you know, a different medium. There's the top of the water. You know, you're above the water. They're below the waterline. Exactly. And so it's the same thing here. If you try filming these things from outside the bubble that they've created the bubble around them, then you're just trying to you're trying to film through a space time barrier essentially. Right. You're never going to get anything more than the kind of footage we get now. Right. But at the same time, I've been told that there is video evidence that exists at a classified level of these craft when the bubble is turned off. Where you can see clear as day the craft. And that's the stuff that people in my film have seen. And going to the record saying exists. It's a very clear cut that is indisputable. I've heard from folks that I've had on this podcast who are like the most tapped in dorkiest UFO dorks ever who really study this stuff. That out of all the agencies that look at the UFO topic, the one that knows the most about everything is the Navy. And there's this pro this agency called the I think it's the U in R or O something it's like the underwater in our like the national reconnaissance office of the ocean. And like if we see so many of these things coming out of the oceans all the time. And we have I mean historical evidence back into like the beginning of written history of these things coming out of the ocean. Like what have these nuclear submarine pilots seen or like detected on their radars. I wonder because you don't hear a lot about that. Probably a lot. Probably a lot. Look, I do think the Navy knows a lot for sure. You know, Jay Stratton who ran the UAP task force and who co-created all SAP with Kaskie which became, you know, a tip. He comes from Naval Intelligence. Very senior Naval Intelligence official. But I do believe him and his colleagues who I've got to know well when they say that despite the Navy having learned a lot, they are still boxed out by the legacy program. And they are still like, you know, on their own parallel path to figure this all out. I think they collect a lot of data though. Yeah. Like a lot of data at a classified level. There's got to be so much more underwater. If I was just to guess, I would to guess there'd be so much more because obviously you can't take a foot. I don't think that they have cameras outside their submarines. They can take photos of stuff. But I'm sure they have some sort of ways of detecting it. Now stuff they're catching on sonar. They're grabbing that data from here. Right. The the Tim Gallaudet told us a crazy story. What's about a like Navy captain, a submarine captain who he talked to, who explained they had like their signals going off inside their nuclear submarine somewhere in like the North Atlantic or whatever of like an incoming something really fat like the fat as fast as a missile. And it came up like really close behind them. And it ended up being like way bigger than their submarine like 10 times bigger than their submarine. And it just stopped on a dime and then vanished. Jesus. That's fucking bananas. That's going to be so scary because you're a sitting duck inside this metal tube in the middle of the ocean. Yeah. I mean, think back to, you know, for rough for for context. I think back to movies like on for red October like those claustrophobic like starting can at the bottom right. Right. Right. Right. Terrifying. It makes me, it makes me, you know, whenever we talk about the underwater activity, it makes me think that maybe maybe James Cameron was ahead of his time and, you know, on to something. Yeah. The water stuff spooking this. The abyss makes you rethink this, you know. It is spooky. The people I've spoken to who have seen with their own eyes, some of those kind of events, it's all been on nuclear weapons sites. I mean, I've, you know, for example, that in my film, one of the one of the interview subjects, was a Air Force security guard at Vanderburg Air Force Base on the California coast. I live in Los Angeles and this is just like a couple hours north of us. Right. Around Santa Barbara. And he goes on the record on camera for the first time saying that he personally witnessed he was standing guard at a nuclear weapon site. And sorry, that was not a nuclear weapon site. That was a, yeah, it was, it was a, it was a, it was a missile site. That's where their interceptor system is based. Yeah. There in Alaska. Exactly. It was, it was a missile site that he was guarding was not an nuclear weapon site, but it was, it was part of our defense system, uh, key part of our defense system. As you said, and, um, he said that him in a few other guards, I think it might have been, might have been six. I can't remember off time ahead. It was either three or six, but they saw a light approaching from the Pacific Ocean going towards the base. At first, they thought it was an airplane, like heading towards the base, which also concerned them, but that's what they thought it was at first. And then, as it got closer, like the size has completely changed. And all of a sudden, they saw a man in the light went away. And all of a sudden, they saw a matte black GI an object, the size of a football field, they scrapped. It was like to the left and to the right of their, their, their shoes, their eye line. And he said that it slowed almost to a stop when it came above the base. And then it kind of hovered, uh, above them for, for, I can't remember whether he said like 30 seconds or 60 seconds, but short, short while. And he said they all just kind of stood there and all staring at this thing, processing this. Uh, he said there was no lights, no windows, no visual, you know, visible means of propulsion. It was just there. This giant, um, rectangular object, the size of a football field. And then he said it took up, took off thousands of miles an hour up the coast. And, um, you know, there was also the guy Bob Jacobs, who Bob Jacobs is. Yeah. He's in the film. He, he talked about, they were sending dummy nukes up or something. Yeah. It's same base Vanderburg Air Force Base decades prior. Um, he's interviewed in the film as well. He was a, he was a cameraman for the Air Force. His job was to film a missile test that was happening. And, um, they shot a dummy missile up. And they had it being filmed by a bunch of different cameras, um, just to study, study it. And, uh, while they were filming, a UAP came into frame and moved around the missile zapping it as this missile was moving along thousands miles an hour and, uh, spelled out of the sky, right? Yeah. And then, and then this UAP just took off. And it was all caught on camera. And, you know, he was told, you know, never to talk about it. And, and, you know, essentially like, wow, dude, threatened in a way. And how did they use nukes to try to like bait the UFOs in? Yeah. So that's one of the really fascinating things, um, that my interview subject shared. And, um, a long time ago, they realized folks involved in covering this up in the legacy program and in other, you know, areas like the Navy, uh, they, they, they, they, they learned that nuclear footprints attract these things. They're, they're, they're paying attention to our nuclear program. and to what we do with nuclear technology and so they started creating environments that would attract UAP and lower them in and then they could collect data and get information that would help them in their technology race. I do believe that my understanding is some lines were crossed where they also caused some of these crashes. They would lower them in and they would create circumstances that would cause some crashes which seems like a pretty risky decision. But at the same time, I think my understanding is that adversarial nations have done this and do this. So if we don't do it, then we would fall behind. Again, one of those examples of this being a super complicated situation, you know, sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't in any part of this whole conversation. And I found that fascinating. Interestingly, I just learned through some of my relationships in the government right now that some of the intelligence officials who have been tasked with identifying what evidence can be lawfully disclosed following President Trump's directive. Some of them learned that various agencies and branches of the military had been lowering these things in in the past and that they had figured out how to do that. And these intelligence officials asked for a demonstration of that as recent as a couple weeks ago and apparently saw with their own eyes, UAP. I was told this in confidence by a couple people within the last couple weeks. And then interestingly, Congressman Burleson, who also had learned this, shared it on a podcast, I think last week, a few days ago that he had heard the same thing. If you're pretty shocking, who are they showing this to? So it was some of the intelligence officials tasked by a member of the current cabinet to uncover evidence that can be declassified. Trump gives a directive. We need to identify what evidence exists that can be declassified. So then he tells certain cabinet members get on that. And then they have their teams go and shake those trees. And in that process, apparently some of them were given a demonstration on how UAP can be lowered on how to lure them in and apparently saw with their own eyes, which was a game changer. And I Burleson said this on a podcast. I had heard this from multiple sources prior to Burleson saying it on a podcast recently. Yeah, within the last couple weeks. Wow. And then it was three or four days ago. Congressman Burleson said it on a podcast. I was just going to keep it to myself, but then he brought it up. So there you go. It's interesting. How were they, if that true, if that really happened, it's a pretty, is this a psionic stuff? Incredible escalation. I honestly don't know how they actually, how they actually did it. And the people, people I've talked to, I'm sure you know, such as Drake, such as Drake, Jay Strat have told me that in the past, nuclear footprints were used. So you could put a nuclear submarine in a certain area and nearby it, you could put another vessel with a nuclear weapon on it. And that footprint will attract them. Whoa. Yeah. So actually something that, you know, your listeners will find fascinating. So Jay actually has a big memoir coming out later this year, Jay Strat. And it's his tell all book about his journey down this rabbit hole over the investigating UAP and non-human intelligent life for, for 16 years. And he goes into a lot of detail on this stuff. And the learnings that, you know, he and his colleagues had about how these things could be lowered in and how they, how, how elements of our government and other governments have been doing that. Did they ever talk to you about or did he ever mention or anyone ever mentioned any of this psionic stuff? No. No, I've read, I've, you know, like you, I've seen, I've seen other people talk about it online and stuff. But I, no one ever talks to me about that. Never heard anything about that. What, what have you found to be the most interesting about it? There was a guy Michael Herrera who was one of the whistleblowers who came out, I forget how long I go, well, I want to say the 90s, maybe I could be wrong, could be in the 2000s, who said that he was working in the military somewhere in the remote jungles of Indonesia or something. Yeah, I remember that. Remember, and they, and there was like an earthquake, a humanitarian crisis where they were rescuing people, but what they were really doing is taking these like indigenous people, children, kidnapping them and then like all of a sudden, like these like fucking crazy looking ships showed up, like these fucking like almost human made crafts, like UFOs, and they were loading these people onto them. Wow. And taking them away and what I guess he learned or what we eventually learned through other whistleblowers is that they were using these people who were sort of like not indoctrinated into western society into the technological world that we live in here, people that are more tied to nature, younger people. They were even finding people who were left-handed or gay. And something about them was enabling them to tap into something where they could use their minds to consciously control the UFOs. Wow. Sounds crazy. There was a guy that Jesse Michaels had in his podcast who was, I forget his name now, but he worked for some private company or whatever and he said that he was there to red team Michael Herrera when he did his press thing. And he said he was going in there as like counterintel to like find out who was spilling the secrets. And then when he heard Michael Herrera give that testimony, he, this guy realized he goes, holy shit, I was there. I was a part of that team that was doing that. I was one of the guys that he fucking saw. And then I guess his story was like that like made him want to tell his story and like switch teams. And then that's like the whole that's as far as what I'm aware of. I don't know any about that particular event. No, that was not real school. That was a different guide that Jesse Michaels had on. I don't know about that particular event in the jungle other than what, you know, I've read on lines once Michael started sharing that. But I have heard about, I have heard that there are people who have the ability to communicate using the power of their mind. And I know that probably is like the most wacky sounding thing. Not at all. Your listeners are, have you seen my library? I know, but there's certainly going to be some of your listeners who are like, Manek, I was mine, you know? But this is what I've been told by super serious people. There are a bunch of, there's a bunch of really grounded, not a bunch, that's the stupidest way to say it. There's a lot of, there's a lot of data that shows that this, this is a real area of inquiry. So if you get out of the UAP topic for a second, so stargate. So real program that really existed. There is so much evidence of it that's been declassified. Dr. Hal Pudoff was in my film, who's very involved in the UAP topic. He ran stargate. He was tasked with building stargate. And what stargate was was a program that identified people who have psychic abilities. And they trained them to use their mind's eye, to wander, to remote locations, and to be able to do what's called remote viewing to see a location remotely. Sounds crazy, right? It just sounds completely bananas. But that was a real program that our government funded. The CIA and DARPA and the Department of Defense funded that for years. And they got actionable intelligence out of it. So something that Joe Rogan and I talked about this for a while, there's, there's even, there's even recordings of past presidents talking about, this is a valid thing. Jimmy Carter made a couple statements on it before he died, saying that they, the military actually acted on intelligence that the remote viewers gave. And it worked. They used it. He famously gave a quote about a remote viewer being used to find a missing airplane, a crashed, a crashed fire jet that had fallen off radar. And so there's all these, there's all this data out there that's, that's indisputable that, that program existed. It was real. There's a there there, right? It's a real situation. And so it's It's not the craziest leap to go from accepting that remote viewing is a real thing, even though it's hard to understand and hard to wrap your head around to thinking that maybe people who have those abilities can also communicate from a distance with non-human life. There are people who have told me that that is a thing, that there are people who have the ability to do that, and that it's referred to as space intelligence communications. Let's put a pin there. I got a piss so bad I can taste it. We're back. We're talking about a lot of stuff that I think to the average person just sounds completely bananas and extraordinary and I'm talking to our audience though. I'm conscious of it for sure and so I think it's always worth saying for me when making the age of disclosure, I only interviewed extremely credible people who had a lot to lose reputation wise and who actually had direct knowledge of the stuff as a result of working for the government because I feel like my personal opinion and I'm sure a lot of your listeners feel the same. Short of indisputable video evidence or a craft landing and time square and non-human intelligence life walking out, short of that level of in your face evidence, the best we can really hope for is extremely credible people putting their reputation on the line to share what they can. That's really what it comes down to, that's the best we can hope for short of that dream scenario. And so that is sort of the bar I've always held. I put weight in things said by people who fit that description and whether that's a very senior politician who has a lot to lose because A, he sits on classified committees and doesn't want to lose his seat, B, wants to run for president one day, all these other things, whether it's something like that or whether it's an intelligence official who doesn't want to get himself killed and doesn't want to lose his clearance, his security clearance and doesn't want to lose his ability to provide for his family. It's chaos out there, their stomachs don't have to be, introducing cultural kids probiotics plus electrolytes, sugar-free, more hydrating than water alone from the number one pediatrician recommended brand. Youth soccer is never boring, but your kid's stomach should be. 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If you're a high-level intelligence fish, like Navy Intelligence or within the Department of Defense or the CIA, and you retire, you're collecting your pension as a government worker. What a lot of them do, after they retire from government work, they go in the work in the private sector. They work for a big defense contractor or they work for a big pharmaceutical company, and one of the requirements for those jobs after is that they have a security clearance and they're set up to be able to actually work on whatever classified projects those private companies are doing for elements of the government, right? And if you piss off the wrong people or you start making things up and look crazy or untrustworthy, you're going to lose your clearance and you're not going to be able to provide for your family. And so no one who spoke on camera in my film and revealed these extraordinary truths lost their clearances after, no one lost their job. If anything, many of them excelled, when I interviewed Rubio, he was Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He said these extraordinary things in my film. Did he get laughed out of DC? No, he escalated to the second most powerful guy in the world, our Secretary of State and our National Security Adviser. There's only one time in American history that one person has been the National Security Adviser and the Secretary of State at the same time was Henry Kissinger for two years. It's like such a rare error. It's an unprecedented access to information, you know? Number of the people in my film are actively working in the private sector using their clearances. Really? Yeah, a number of them. It doesn't stuff them, actually. And none of them have been laughed out of the room or called crazy or had their ruptured because they really stuck to what is true that can be lawfully disclosed. Yeah. What did you make of James Clapper? I think that James Clapper, the interview we did was him attempting to come clean with the American public in the only way he could. That's what I think. I think he's a guy who's in his 80s. He's been at the highest levels of the intelligence community for decades. He was the head of Air Force Intelligence. He was the director of National Intelligence. Yeah. He's been the head of multiple other intelligence agencies. He's never publicly revealed anything on this topic. But he agreed to participate in my film and play a role in disclosure and he shared what he could. It was pretty significant, actually. For those who haven't seen the film on camera, James Clapper confirms that UAP activity over Area 51 is in fact real, it's not conspiracy, if not nonsense, it is a real situation. And he confirmed that despite the Air Force saying they have not had any investigation of UAP since the closure of Project Blue Book, he says when he was the head of Air Force Intelligence, he did in fact have a program to actively investigate UAP. So he unveiled the Air Force's actual role in all this, their hidden role. And he, I think, did a big service to the public and to squashing the stigma by acknowledging that UAP activity over Area 51 is real. Because I think for most people around the world, the idea of UAP and Area 51, the mysteries around Area 51, they've been sensationalized so much in movies and TV shows that I think most people don't think it's real. And I think here, here was a guy putting his credibility on the line, Layton Life, to say that that is real. It's a valid area of inquiry. And I remember, when I interviewed him, I'm this far away from him and I remember feeling it like he had just got this office chest, you know, like he got a way off his chest, yeah, when he said that. And I think he was at a place in life where he just, he wanted to, he wanted to sort of like give that to the public and come clean on some of his basic facts. You know, he, uh, he has a general, general Jim Clapper, right? Yeah. Yeah, he is. Yeah. And yeah, he's been caught up in some, you know, political, you know, stuff, there's the whole thing with line to Congress. Yeah, there's this whole Biden laptop thing, you know, I know a lot of people will say, well, I don't think he was honest about that. So how do I know he's honest about this? Right. You know, you're calling who you want to believe, but what, what would he get out of line? Yeah. What would a guy in his 80s get out of going and participating in this film that he knows is all about disclosure. He knew in advance, Rubio, Rounds, Gillibrand, J Strat and Chris Melon, Hal Pudeau, Eric Davis, White House National Security Council members, all were coming out of the shadows to speak up about what they could legally. Why, why would he participate and say the things he said? Have you played that out? Have you thought about that? Yeah. Why would he, is that, do you think of any, why would he, is that, do you think of any reasonable explanation of why he would-- - No, no, especially when you add in context that like I alone would have, like the people watching my film wouldn't have, his wife was in the hospital diet. Like in her final weeks, he had been sitting by her bedside every day. He took a couple hours off to come straight from the hospital to do this, and then went back to the hospital. Like, you know, can he told me, I actually said when I, when I learned, like a day before that that was the circumstances he was dealing with personally, I reached out and said, hey, you know, if it's not the right time in life, it's all good, you know, and he was like, no, this is important. So, you know, and to be easier to go down the conspiratoral route of, you know, the people, people making up stories, if it was like a few people, but I interviewed 34 people on camera, 34 senior members of the military government, it's all in the community that many of which aren't even, don't know each other, you know? - Did you get any in touch with Clapper? - No. - Okay. - No, I just think it's, you know, it's important to keep in mind some of that stuff, the history of these people, you know, 'cause even if somebody is a military general and that the top of the food chain of the American government or intelligence organization, doesn't always mean, in fact, almost never means, they're gonna tell you the truth. And, you know, it is important to know that this guy literally lied to Congress and said that the NSA was not spying on American citizens two months before Snowden leaked the NSA documents proving that they were spying on American citizens. - Yeah. Look, I do think that, you know, if he lied in the past, maybe this was a way to kind of make up for it. Maybe this was, maybe this was like, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the right thing this time, and I'm gonna share that this is a real situation. - Right. - If you study his body language in the doc, that's the impression I get. Like, he's not excited to do what he's doing, but he's doing it 'cause he thinks he's shit. He's getting up there in age, man. You know, a lot of these people are. - Look at his face in the film when you-- - I did, when you-- - I did after he says the Area 51 line, you could tell there was other people in the room with me actually that picked up on this too. He immediately kind of looked down, and it was like, as if he was thinking himself like, well, I just said it, so hopefully, that's okay, you know? Like, it kind of just came out, you know? And, yeah. But I mean, you know, what would be the narrative if all 34 people in this film, they're all saying the same thing, and all sharing information, they have personally learned to be true. They're all sharing it, it all fits together. It all works together. What would be the alternative to the truth? - Yeah. I mean, I would personally just be very skeptical if it all fit together perfectly, you know? And it was like bow tied up and wrapped up in a little concept of that. It's like, you know, I would be skeptical that they would be trying to push out a narrative to the American public, you know, a specific narrative. You know, who knows, you know, who knows? Maybe they're trying to protect some sort of secret, military weapons program that they've been working on since the '40s when they went in Roswell happened, and they want to convince that they've learned what it is, they know how it works, they're trying to figure out more about how it works, and they want to put out some sort of a public limited hangout, right? And let everyone make everyone think that this is real disclosure, when in fact, it's a completely separate narrative from what they think it really is. They want to throw people off the scent, you know, back to the whole Paul Benoid story, but on a whole grander scheme. - So, okay, so if you play that out, which of course I've had that, I've had that thought, you play that out, and then where you land is elements of the U.S. government cracked a new energy source in the '40s and kept it secret, and never used it to benefit our country, right? And, well, it's just a private industry, right? This doesn't make any sense, 'cause private industry wants to make money, you know? If someone had cracked a new energy source in the '40s, I think they would have used it to become the most valuable company on the planet. None of the defense contractors are even in the top 100 of the most valuable companies in America, much less the world. - Really? - Yeah. - Yeah. - You know, Northrop and Lockheed and Raytheon and all those? - No, look at their market caps compared to NVIDIA, you know? - Yeah. - It's not even on the same planet. - It's not like Palantir, I mean, all, yeah. - They're big, don't be wrong, they're being business. - Yeah. - But they're not the most valuable companies on Earth, which I just personally believe they would be. - I would be curious. Can we ask one of the AI's, like, compare the. The GDP of the top five or top 10 United States military contractors versus. - Well, no, just to market cap Lockheed Martin versus NVIDIA. - Well, don't do that. Do top 10 United States military contractors versus. What would be the other industry in United States that could compete with that, you think? - I mean, yeah, if you're just looking at market cap, just ask, just ask. - With a touch. - Yeah. - If any of the major defense contractors are in the top 10 corporations, let's pop wise. I don't think the answer's yes. - Yeah. - I'd be curious to see what they would compete with and where they would stack with that. - But so if, look, if someone cracked this kind of technology in the 40s, my point is, I think they would have used it to make a fortune if they were a private company. If they were the government, I think they would have used it in other ways. I don't think that technology would. I don't understand any upside to that technology being completely hidden since the 40s. That doesn't make any sense to me. - You might be right. Anything, Steve? - Major US defense contractors are generally not in the top 10 most valuable companies globally by market capitalization as of 2016. Well, firms like Lockheed Martin, RTX, formerly Raytheon, General Dynamics, Boeing, and Northrop Grumman, are top tier defense revenue. They are smaller in market valuation compared to tech giants such as Apple, Microsoft, Nvidia, and Alphabet. - Yeah. - Yeah. So it's just not realistic. Like, you know, everyone I spoke to says that some of those defense contractors listed there are involved in this. - Yeah. - They would be such bigger and more valuable companies if they had this technology for that one. I think they are involved in reverse engineering it now. And I think they're making massive breakthroughs. And maybe some of them are finally there already in their black programs. But I do not believe that this is organic human technology breakthroughs that we've had since the 40s. They call bullshit. - How many people do you think? - Oh, wait, here's the other point. - Yeah. - Military pilots saw UAP during World War II. - Yeah. - If we had that technology, don't you think World War II would have ended a lot quicker? You know, like, would we have stayed in World War II? - Right. - No, it's bonkers. - Right. - Well, if we probably hadn't figured out a way to harness it. - There are orbs flying next to fighter pilots. - Right. - Energy balls flying a long time. They call them food fighters, you know? If that was ours, if we had cracked this technology that allowed us to harness energy in a localized area and create these little crafts that flew within, you know, bright bubbles of energy, wouldn't we have won it? Use it to win World War II? - Right. - What about the Tic-Tac stuff? - There's absolutely no one who has any credibility that would say that was man-made. - Really? - Yeah, we, we, a number of the people involved in, first off, Jay Stratton ran the investigation of the Tic-Tac for the government. Like, he actually wrote the actual, the actual official report on it. He's the one who actually went and investigated it. And completely came to the conclusion that it was not man-made. Like, tried to, you know, assign it to some, you know, hidden program of ours and hoped that would be the case, you know? Wanted to be able to explain it, right? And, and couldn't. And that's the guy who would have had the job of knowing. So prior to investigating UAP and non-human intelligence line for the government, he was the head of air and space warfare for the Defense Intelligence Agency. His literal job was to know what all of our black programs, not our classified programs, our black programs, our unacknowledged special access programs. - Yes. - What they were building. - Right. - What was on their roadmap for 20, 30 years out, 20, 30 years out, in terms of air and space technology. It was literally his job. So like, the analogy for him, you know, we talked about Hunter or October earlier. The analogy is like, remember, Hunter or October, ballot Baldwin is an analyst at the CIA and his special is knowing everything about Russia's nuclear submarine program and everything about the leadership of that program. Like he is, that's his wheelhouse, right? Like he knows everything there is to know at a classified and on classified level about this one thing. - Right. - So much so that in the movie, when James Earl Jones, the head of the CIA, gets a satellite photo of a submarine in Russia that he doesn't recognize and they wonder what it is, who do they go and ask, you know? Or ask Baldwin and he knows what it is, he knows who the commander is, he knows everything about him, where it's school, his relationship with his wife, everything, right? People like that exist within the intelligence community that have these specific lanes that they know everything about at a classified level and an on classified level. And Jay was that guy for air and space technology and that is why he ended up in this investigation of UAP and not even a child's life because one day, one of his colleagues walked into his office and said, hey, I gotta show you something and pulled him into a skiff and showed him a video that Air Force security guards had taken on a nuclear base of a triangle craft hovering above a nuclear weapon site and moving in ways that nothing does. And so they asked him, you know, please tell us this is one of ours. He had been read in on all the black programs developing advanced, you know, next gen technology for space and air. He was read in on those so that he could identify things that are ours versus things that are unknowns or potential threats. Mm-hmm. And it was clear to him that it wasn't. So that same guy ends up, you know, putting together ASAP with Jim Lukaski, which starts investigating this stuff and then eventually that same guy runs the investigation of the Tick-Tack and there's just no way. We didn't have that technology. Right. I believe, I think I'm of the belief that it's multiple things going on. I'm sure it's a shit that we have no idea what it is. Some other civilization, I mean, I have no doubt there's gotta be, there has to be intelligent life. Well, we'll go back to Tick-Tack. If in 2004, if, let's say, I saw the conspiracy theoron line somebody claimed that that was Lockheed Martin technology. All right. If Lockheed Martin in 2004 had technology that could go from sea level to 80,000 feet, which is what the Tick-Tack did. That's when you get into space, 80,000 feet, right? If they had technology that could go from sea level to space in like the blink of an eye and then do that all afternoon, they would be the most valuable company on the planet right now. 20 years later. Yes. It is impossible to accept the idea that they crap that technology. If they were publicly public. They're not even in the top 100 market cap in the United States, much less the world. Right. I mean, I'm saying if that technology was public, they would be for sure. No, they would be, even if it wasn't. If they had that technology, I mean, think about this real stuff. I've thought about this from every angle. If they had that technology in 2004, even if it was highly classified, that would give them so much leverage. They would have never lost a defense contract to any other defense contractor. But in reality, they did. Unless there was a handful of defense contractors who were close to it too or doing the same stuff. It doesn't even matter. They would have so much leverage. There is no way they would not be a more valuable company. You'd be sitting on the biggest technological breakthrough in the history of humanity. But how can you be more valuable when people aren't aware of what you have? If nobody with money or nobody knows what you really have, except for a very small group of people, where's the value? So in this conspiracy theory, the only way there would be any merit to it is if there was leadership in the government that knew this 'cause if they didn't, if Lockheed had tick-tock technology in 2004 and no one in the government knew it, why would they keep it classified? That's making sense. They would only keep it classified if they had to because there was government overseers that knew they had it. If there was no government overseers and they had actually cracked this technology in 2004 and it was theirs, it wouldn't be classified. They would monetize it. They become the wealthiest company in the history of the world overnight. - Yeah, I'm not sure about that though. - 100% dude. - I'm not sure that they would want to monetize it. I'm sure there'd be more power in keeping its secret. If they were developing something that was like, how it would change the way that modern physics is known and if it's been getting siloed and kept secret since the '50s or the '40s, first like Lockheed Martin wasn't even around then. - No. - Like you know, they bought up smaller companies over the years. The companies, a lot of the companies that they bought were involved in the legacy program early on. I've been told, same with Northrop Grumman. But let me put it to you this way. - It's just not realistic. - If we're the American government, me and you run the American government. And we do have this technology. We do have this technology. Nobody knows about it except us and we have all these adversarial nations around us as well. Do we want to tell them publicly that we do have this or do we want to put out this narrative that it's aliens and we don't know what it is? - No, what I'm saying is follow that one thought. If that was the case, then if that was the case and it led to in 2004, a private contractor on behalf of the government, reverse engineer the technology and create something like the TickTack, right? If that was the case, then that means government overseers somewhere know about it, right? And so does Lockheed. In that dynamic, I personally believe Lockheed would have been able to leverage that dynamic to become a much bigger company by now. I do not believe you can have those sets. But I just don't believe that it sounds insane to me that you can have those circumstances and not be at least in the top 10 market cap. By the way, I own Lockheed Martin Stock. It'd be amazing. - Keep holding it, it's a great company. It's a great company, but I just don't believe that. I think they and you don't need to be a rocket scientist and know who the biggest defense contractors are in the US, right? I think those are the companies that our military relies on and our government relies on to try to build the most advanced beyond next-generation technology. And I think that they have been involved and utilized in the legacy programs efforts to reverse engineer this stuff to understand it and reverse engineer it. But I do not think that they made all this stuff from the beginning. It just seems-- - Do you think they have any technology that's secret that nobody in the public knows about? - Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I think they leverage it. - Just not this far. - Yeah, yeah. I think that there has been a lot of success for reverse engineering this stuff in recent years. That's what I think. But I do not think that this was all these giant craft that military people see, that fly past it. - Right. - That move underwater past our submarines, that this is like-- - I'm with you, man. - Stuff we made, you know? - I think it's a mixture of shit. And especially if you have accounts of people seeing this stuff in like antiquity, you know? A sailors on ships seeing these giant balls of light, the size of football stadiums coming out of the water. - It's crazy. - That wasn't Lockheed. - Yeah, exactly, but don't get me wrong. I don't wanna like confuse the listeners. It's, I do think that there are a reverse engineer craft out there. I think China and Russia are neck and neck in our high stakes race and they're both making progress. I think, you know, in the film, it tells the officials referred to it as the Manhattan Project on steroids. I think that's real. Hal Putoff says on camera, he throws slides it into one of the interview pieces that I don't know if enough picked up on this, but he says, you know, some of the UAP activity we see might actually be a result of our legacy programs work. And some of it might be a result of China's program. - Right. - So I think that there's a lot of these like little nuggets that people might film are trying to share with the public to say things without overtly saying them. And I think that those set of circumstances exist, but the chick attack was a long time ago, man. It was a couple decades ago. And I don't, I do not think that we cracked that kind of technology back then. One of the scientists in the film, Eric Davis, he says the exact number I'm not gonna try to quote it 'cause I don't remember exactly what he said, he says, he makes an analogy for the amount of energy that would have been required to go from sea level to 80,000 feet back forth. And it was like something just completely, it was like, I think I just watched it. So it was like, I think it was like the entire energy output of the entire continental United States times a hundred or something like that. - Something like that. - Yeah, we were just like, okay. Obviously, we don't, we didn't have the ability to harness that much energy in this place area above the ocean 20 years ago, you know? Well, there was a lot of anti-gravity research going on in the United States, specifically around the, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill in the 50s. Lots of physicists were like on the cusp and doing extensive deep research on anti-gravity and electric erratic effects. And these scientists went dark, like yeah. Just completely stopped doing the research and all the research went underground. - Yeah. So that's the password. What is happening is getting siloed and hidden in underneath black projects in the 50s, who knows what they could have figured out by now. Certainly, it's certainly they have exponentially expounded on that research since then. Yeah. Even if you take all the missing money in the U.S. government where Rumsfeld said right before 9/11 is there was what, $4 trillion that had gone missing off the books. Yeah, I think at that time it was like 2 trillion. Yeah. And now it's like ballooned to like 11 trillion or something, 20 something trillion. I do think that we might find out down the line that a lot of that on account money has gone towards this technology race and funding this effort. That's what Grush was tracking, right? Yeah. And let the other thing that's worth saying is we just honed in on U.S. defense contractors and did they have that and my thesis is no and if they did, they'd be a lot more valuable of companies right now. But that doesn't mean that there's not other private groups that don't have market caps that we aren't aware of that are heavily invested in our current technologies and have been involved in reverse engineering stuff and are motivated to keep it private because they don't want their interests. They don't want to disrupt their other interests. Yeah. There's total possibility for that. And numerous people I interviewed alluded to their coming to the conclusion that there is non-government, non-contractor money involved in this and I never really got any details. Not enough to be able to talk about. So maybe there's another whole hidden hand involved in this that we don't know about yet. But you brought up earlier, we, before we took a break, we were talking about consciousness and remote viewing. And one of the more interesting stories I wanted to circle back to, I met an intelligence official, we'll refer to a Scott who was a high level intelligence official, mostly focused on counterterrorism, had a really high level career and he ended up on a mission in the Middle East and came back and he had an illness and very long story short, they identified a parasite in his brain and he had brain surgery to try to relieve swelling and try to save his life. And while he was recuperating from this brain surgery, he had an experience that he couldn't explain where he felt like he had by located, like he felt like, while laying stationary, he went somewhere else, like he saw it all in his mind's eye, like he felt like he was somewhere else. And at first, he and his wife just simply thought he was losing his mind from the brain surgery, like that he was, you know, I messed him up and he was just like hallucinating. But then it happened again and he started socializing this with some of his intelligence friends and one of them said, what you're explaining is something called remote viewing, people are trained to do that, to use their minds eye to go somewhere else, he had never even heard of remote viewing. So send some down this rabbit hole and that friend of his connected him with someone who used to work for the CIA, who knows a lot about this. And that person asked him if he had ever had a UAP encounter. He said he didn't think so. The former CIA official said, want you talk to your parents and ask them if anything happened when you were young. Scott's father had passed, so he talked to his mother and his mother actually, without missing a beat, was like, yeah, remember when you were a kid, it was like six or seven or something like that. I really can't remember. I saw a UFO and apparently it came out of a body of water, like a lake or a pond near their house and he witnessed it very close. He ran home and he told his parents about it. The mother reminds him start jogging his memory that the day after this event, a couple guys from Air Force Office of Special Investigation showed up to talk to him and the mom apparently said, you know, leave my kid alone as his kid, but the dad took him in the backyard with these two Air Force guys and they talked for a while and that was the last the mom had heard of it. She's jogging Scott's memory and then after that, it sent him down a little bit of a rabbit hole investigating his past and he, again, long story short, I'm really summarizing here. Long story short, he found a collection of files that his father had and it was broken down by the years of his life, Scott's life, and so it's like Scott year seven, Scott year eight. And inside was his medical records and his education records and then shockingly he found enlistment paperwork in the US Air Force as a child, which he had absolutely no memory of. Imagine seeing that. You're like, is this like a made up document? What is it? What state he was in? Yeah. Can you say it or no? I probably should. I probably should keep those details. So this guy in real life, Scott, is someone I was introduced to from someone in my film. And he is writing a tell all memoir right now and Simon and Schuster is the publisher. And I don't know when it's going to be complete or when it's going to come out, but his full story is in this. And I've got to know him and his wife and his kids and spent a lot of time with them. And it is just the most bombshell, singular story I've ever heard in my life. And not only did he find enlistment paperwork in the US Air Force, but he also found his discharge paperwork and the service code on there when he looked it up was space communications intelligence. And the base he was assigned to was the old space command base at that time. Yeah. And then he, you know, like any reasonable intelligence person would do. He kind of just went on a mission to like try to piece together his past and he started finding this massive cover up. And those records was his excused absences from school for weeks of time. He doesn't remember any of it. The school, when he contacted school, the school's records were missing. There's all these other things about his past that as he started to look into it became clear he was a part of something as a kid after this UAP event and then it was all covered up and something caused him to forget all this. Then the brain surgery brought all these memories back. And then just to skip to sort of like the end of this story, when he started socializing this to some of his high-level intelligence official friends, he found his life in jeopardy. And there were a couple attempts to end his life. And fortunately that stopped and now he's around to tell a story. But it's a remarkable story and likely it'll lead to us all learning about a part of our past that's been hidden and these biological, the UAP encounter he had maybe, I guess there's two ways you can look at it, maybe the encounter left him with this ability, like it gave him a biological effect that gave him this ability to somehow use his mind in a way that average people don't. Maybe it just turned on something that's in all of us already, maybe it's sort of like heightened an ability that had been sort of repressed or whatever, dormant, those are kind of like the two thoughts, right? But either way, it seems that event led to him being recruited into a program that worked with young people, kids that had encounters. I mean, clearly it was a cause and effect saw UAP next day, the Air Force guy showed up to talk to him about. Right. So, yeah, the same thing happened in Rendolshum, right? Yeah. After there was an event at Rendolshum, so Rendolshum, when people say Rendolshum, it's really referring to the Rendolshum forest in the UK. Right. There was a joint military UK base there in the '80s, it was called, I think it was called RAF Bentwaters. Steve is that correct? That sounds right. RAF Bentwaters? I think that was the name of the base. It was a joint UK, US base, at the time in the '80s, it had the largest stock pile of nuclear weapons in Europe. Very specific set of circumstances, you know, and RAF Woodbridge? Yeah. Okay. RAF, is it RAF Woodbridge? There's a couple of Bentwaters and Woodbridge is another one. Yeah. Yeah. Which one had the UFO incident? Is your mic on? Or can we hear you talking on the mics or no? The events occur just outside of Woodbridge for landings. So, simply put, there was a joint UK military base in this area of the English countryside. And at the time, they had this massive stockpile of nuclear weapons. And there was a UAP incident there where apparently multiple crafts came down from the sky one night, and we're hovering around the nuclear weapons sites. Like right above where nukes were hidden underground, and a number of the base security guards and the base commander went out and saw these things in the woods around the base. And some of them got very close to them, one of them, one of these guards ended up having a lot of negative biological effects, hard issues and some other medical issues as a result of the contact with this technology being close to it. And interestingly, also similar to the Scott story, the day after, a mysterious landmark plane landed on the base, according to the base commander, who I spoke to personally. And people that identify themselves as being a part of Air Force Office of Special Investigation and of the CIA, talk to the witnesses, brought them into a private room, spoke to them, interrogated them, asked them a lot of questions. Years later, those witnesses told the base commander, many years later, told them that they were given some kind of serum. Now whether that was to like erase memories or like whether it was a true serum, who knows. But they all told this base commander that that's what happened. And there's a number of people who have had encounters on bases who then were promptly put in a room with people from Air Force Office of Special Investigation, OSI, it's called. And people from the CIA who basically just asked some million questions and then ultimately told them never to talk about it. So like the Air Force and the CIA's role in this is well documented, people have been talking about it for years. But the overlap with consciousness remote viewing, and this is a really interesting intersection. And if you accept the fact that remote viewing is real, as crazy as it sounds, if you accept that it's real, then why would you draw a line there and be like, oh, that's where it stops. You can make your eyes, your eyes, your excuse me, your mind's eye wander to a remote location. But you can't communicate remotely. It doesn't seem like that. It doesn't feel like a bridge too far for me. There definitely seems to be a huge connection between this whole UFO phenomenon and the human mind, the human psyche. It seems to be an integral part of a very important piece to this puzzle. Yeah. You know, that with the combined with the fact that like most UFO sightings happen with children, you know, and there's just an unbelievable amount of UFO sightings that children report and there's a lot of schools. There's a lot of schools. There's a lot of schools around the world. The aerial school encounter, you know about this one? Yeah. That's one of the most fascinating. This is covered very well for those that don't know it in the documentary, The Phenomenon, which James Fox directed. I had the opportunity to be one of the producers on it. By all means, James gets all responsibility for making that movie. That was his baby. That was Phenomenon, the aerial school one? Yeah. Phenomenon covered it at the very end. Okay. And James did an amazing job of covering that story in a little section at the end of the film. Before I first learned about it, and essentially what happened is, I believe it was like 1992 or 1994. There was a school in South Africa, in rural South Africa. And it was a international school. It was young kids from, actually a lot of European nations, people whose parents were working in South Africa for some reason and so it wasn't like local South African kids. It was like it was distinctly an international school. And kids representing all parts of the world. And there was like one school day where there's hundreds of kids out in the backyard playing. They ranged in age. I think it was like six to 12 or something like that. And they all came running back to the school screaming, saying that there was a UFO in the field that had landed and beings and all these kids told the teachers the same thing. They all said they described this craft landing. They described it being distorted around it like a blur, they described these beings being near the craft and how they seem to move in weird ways like almost like a blur. And they described them telepathically communicating with them. The message that these kids all got was that one, there's a clip of, there's a actual footage of one of these young girls, like six or seven saying in her kid vocabulary. She says they told us we mustn't get too technologed was the word she used to. And that if we did, the world could burn and there'd be all this destruction. So in adult launching that, you take away the conclusion of saying, be careful about how we're progressing technologically and then it could lead to destruction. It was like a warning. That was the main takeaway from the communication these kids claimed to all, not all, but many of them experience. All the kids described the same event though. And then now looking through the lens of what people reveal in my film in the age of disclosure about how the technology works, if a craft came down and it had a bubble around it, and beings got out of the craft, but they were still in the bubble, it would look like they're moving in slow motion like these kids describe because they're in different space time. Right? They're behind the bubble. The distorted look and the light they saw, it would all check out without the people my film say this technology works. And then where the story gets even wilder is there was a very grounded, credible, hardened, more time news correspondent who was the head of the BBC South Africa, who was stationed in South Africa and heard about this. His name was Tim Leach and he heard about this and he went to investigate it. At first, there's footage of him talking about it where he said at first I thought these kids must be out of their mind or it's a big elaborate lie. They all got together and said they were going to make up the story. So he goes and he investigates it and he said after spending time, talking to each of these young kids and interviewing them, he was just completely, he completely came to conclusion that they were all telling the truth because kids just can't lie that good. Little kids can't one-on-one tell all the same details as each other. One after another wasn't like five kids because it was like over 100 kids and so he came to believe them. But at the same time as a serious journalist, he wanted to bring in some kind of expert tell them if these kids were all, you know, expert liars or crazy, so he phoned the head of child psychiatry at Harvard at the time, who was like apparently the leading expert on child psychiatry in the United States at the time. His name was John Mack, so he calls him. He tells him about this event and asks him to come out to South Africa and interview the kids and tell him his conclusion. So Mack flies out to South Africa and he interviews these kids one at a time, he films the interviews and 100% takes away the fact that these kids are all telling the truth, that they all experience what they're saying they experience. And then years later, James Fox tracked down a bunch of these kids and he got them to do interviews for the phenomenon and it's amazing. You see them talking as kids, intercut with them as adults and they're saying the exact same thing, none of them have ever tried to monetize their story or become famous if anything they've just completely kept it to themselves, one of them says she's actually never told her husband about it, like just didn't want to be, you know, make them think she's crazy or whatever. And it's just this wild story and the fact that these interviews exist that you can watch of these little kids talking, it's super moving and yeah, man, James Fox did an amazing job putting that piece of the film together and you know, I was really grateful, you know, he brought me on to that project as a producer towards the end of his process and I was able to play a role in helping get the movie out there and the marketing of the movie and getting it out into the mainstream, but he did a hell of a job. Also a moment of contact was fucking crazy. Oh yeah, moment of contact, a great movie, James is an awesome filmmaker and he's been ahead of the curve on this topic, you know, like he started making films on this before people. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. long fucking time. Yeah. His first movie, you know, out of the blue was good. And then I, you know, second was I know what I saw, right? Mm-hmm. I think so. Yeah. But one of contact was crazy because he was just interviewing random everyday people in this, like, bum fuck town in Brazil. Yeah. Who saw this creepy look and creature. He did the deepest dive. I think somebody actually died from it. Yeah. And then they all talk about these, like, all these, like, military people in Brazil are afraid to talk about it. They want to be anonymous, have their voices change and all this stuff. There's one guy who wouldn't even talk who threatened to shoot everybody who came on his property and, like, like, stories of men and black, the US Air Force plane landing, carting this thing off and then leaving, like, yeah, that one is like, there's so much testimony, witness testimony that lines up so well, even his new one has the surgeon of the hospital. Yeah. That one surgeon who, like, literally said he had a communication with this thing. And he said, like, he was explaining how when he was, like, looking at this thing and it was communicating to him, it was just, like, it made him want to cry because he just felt like overwhelming love from this thing. Super, super powerful story. And James did the best deep dive ever on it. And I'll tell you, I have heard from some of my, my most trusted senior intelligence friends, intelligence community friends, including, you know, who we mentioned today, J Stratton, who, you know, co-ranossap and, and, and, and was director of the UAP Task Force. He and others have told me that they spoke to people from the Brazilian military, like very senior people, who shared with them evidence of this having happened, manifold ports, yeah, reports of the biological effects to civilians in that area. People that got zapped by this UAP in this event, this, this specific event, the, the Brazilian military did a massive investigation of it. And there's tons of evidence they, you know, they, the people, I've come to trust, talk about it, like an event that really truly happened and, and as well documented. And maybe, you know, most likely the US, the elements of the US government that have been covering this up, the folks involved in the Lake City program, you know, likely had had a role in covering it up. And just, you know, sure, making sure it never, never made it to the public. You know, talking about James, James Fox at his filmmaking, just, you know, makes me, it's another reminder, like how important civilian journalism is, you know, like we know about this stuff because, you know, some of us have made documentaries, you know, people like you and Joe Rogan are, you know, talking about it on podcasts, like in the past, there wasn't enough people bringing attention to it. And because legacy media didn't bring any attention to it and is largely controlled, people just didn't find out, you know. So I think it's, it's an exciting time for civilian journalism and documentaries and podcasts because you can do these, you can do these deep dives and you can put out an independent film, where you can put out an independent podcast and people, people will see it and learn about it. And it's also leading to more to come out, you know, like because James made that doc, like he's going to doctor getting out of the shadows and decided he would, he would, he would share his story. Yeah. So it's like, bringing attention to the stuff actually leads to more coming, you know. And at the same time, there's also like, that's, that's like, ballsy of him to do that, to do that investigation and to put that out there. And not just ballsy of him, but it's like, it's a huge leap to go from government, UFOs recorded on the radar of military fighter jets and unknown objects, documented by the military to go all the way to, I communicated with a fucking alien in a hospital, telepathically. Like that's, we've already, we've already gone past the UFO bridge. Like everyone can accept that UFOs are real. It's pretty much in like the zeitgeist now in common in America at least. But like, I feel like it's going to take a lot more to get people to the, okay, we're telepathically communicating with these beings that are coming here and they're, it's some other entity, not human, that is really technologically advanced and like, yeah, even alien abductions. Like, did they need the people that you talk to go that far to talk about like, talk about the actual being people, people did, people, I chose to leave it out of the film because I just felt like for the average person who hasn't spent any time learning about this, it's just a bridge too far. Yeah. It's just hard from the rep or head around. It's hard to, it's just a jagged pill as well. And I think it, I think it will, it makes a lot of people discount the other stuff. And so I think my, my, ultimately obviously, he saw the film, ultimately where I came out on it was to have the film cover the base facts of the high-level situation and not get into that, which would be sort of like the next bridge for the audience to get on. Right, right, right, right. It could be in a follow-up film, it could be in spin-off, it could be in something else I'd do. But there's just already, so the base facts are already, is already so extraordinary, you know, and such a departure from people's everyday life that I felt that was enough. And I actually had, in one cut of the movie, I did have a little like three or four minutes scene that touched on, it wasn't abductions, but touched on the personal experiences some of the US government officials had at their homes after investigating this. So one of the wild things I learned was that as people involved in investigating this for the government looked into non-human intelligent life, it seems non-human intelligent life started looking into them. The analogy that they, you know, used to wrap their head around what's happening is they would say, look, if Russia sends a spy to DC to spy on members of our Congress, our intelligence community spies on the Russian spy, you know, like we look into them because they're looking at us. And so these intelligence officials just sort of like applied that logic to what was happening to them. They started looking into non-human intelligent life in UAP for the government and all of a sudden they were having activity at their houses, orbs in their homes in front of their wives. In some cases, crafts, like straight up UFOs, within eyesight of their homes, that's covered in a lot of my interviews. And I ended up putting it into like a three or four minute scene in an early cut of the movie. And when I did test screenings, small test screenings with trusted friends, time and time again, at the end when I would say, I would ask general questions like, you know, did it change your perspective on all this? The ideas you had going into watching the movie are the same after watching the movie, those kind of just headline questions. And I always would say, was there anything that you found hard to accept and believed to be trail? And every single time it was that sequence, it was that sequence in the film, that they people had problems with. There was just something about it that was a bridge too far. And I would even ask, you know, I asked the obvious follow-up questions, you know, I'd say, well, the person telling that story didn't, didn't the previous part of the film establish their credibility? And they'd say, yeah, yeah, it did for sure, 100%. And I'd be like, then why do you find it hard to believe what they're saying in this scene? And it was just something about these people sharing their own personal experience that happened in their own home, that becomes a bridge too far for people. Whereas that same intelligence official saying what they learned when investigating and what they uncovered is totally digestible to the audience. So I just decided to take that scene out. This is the long story short. Yeah, the normies aren't ready, you know? Exactly. And I don't know what that is. I don't know what part of like human psychology makes that like a bridge too far for people. One of the interesting things in the film is Rubio and Clapper, we talked about two guys we talked about today, they both say in the film, they talk about how it's difficult for people to wrap their head around something they haven't personally experienced, or to or prepare themselves for something having experience. It's something in the human psyche that does that. And that's actually something that they are concerned about. They are concerned that collectively, we as a nation, won't properly prepare for what's happening right now. And put the right brain power towards it because we haven't experienced it yet. And Rubio makes points about they're being several examples of that blowing up in our face. Like we never imagined terrorists would fly, you know, come to the homeland and learn to fly commercial airplanes and use it against us in a terrorist act until they did. And we never, you know, imagined the Japanese would be able to strike us at Pearl Harbor with their missiles and get their missiles through the streets, but until they did. And so there's histories of all these examples of us not preparing for or wrapping our head around things we have. experienced yet and then sometimes that leads to a strategic surprise that as he says in the film could change the course of human history. And so there's this it is interesting and I found it I found it really informative when I was doing these test screenings of earlier cuts where that bridges for people where it just goes a bridge too far. Yeah that's interesting. But I did certainly hear a lot of incredible stories and from where I was sitting as the guy doing all the interviews there was so much overlap. It was like tell me what you heard about the aliens. So talk to several people who worked on nuclear weapons bases who had seen a UAP on the base like been part of an event that multiple people witnessed with them. And then in the coming days had subsequent events when they were off the base where they encountered UAP and then not human beings. Oh they encountered beings at their homes. Yeah or not actually those cases the nuclear weapons stories were actually not homes. It happened in various not at work. Yeah not at work. One one story that did happen on on a base though. I didn't listen to the film but I did say I have it maybe I'll maybe I'll release it one day your director's cut or like maybe you know I've been thinking about not to digress but I've been thinking about maybe doing a DVD. Blu-ray with special features on it. I like it. Deleted scenes. When I was a kid I used to love buying DVDs that had deleted scenes. Keep it off the internet just make it a DVD. Yeah put on DVD people can have it collect hold on to it you know. I still collect DVDs personally. I like physical media. Yeah I have a few draws of DVDs in alphabetical order like a lunatic. That's awesome. But yeah I think I might do that one day but so one of these interviews I did was it was it was an Air Force security guard at a nuclear weapons base had a had an encounter where him and his partner saw a UAP over a nuclear weapons site and then what happened after that was he said that a bright light came from the UAP and hit this vehicle that him and his partner were in and they basically became like you know catatonic like frozen they couldn't move and he set out of the corner of his eye he saw three non-human beings approaching the car and he said he was terrified and his heart started to race and he thought he was going to have a freaking heart attack he thought it was like heart it's going to like leap out of his chest and then he just blacked out and when he woke up his vehicle was no longer where it was in front of the the the nuke um cyton he was now at the bottom of a reservoir that was on the back side of the base that you couldn't physically drive down to the truck was just there it had been relocated and he came to and his partner was still basically catatonic and shocked couldn't move he was like gripping the steering wheel he said and um over the base over the radio he heard like his colleagues looking for him still and he looked at his watch and hours had passed and he called in saying saying where they were and you know that's crazy it was he's like this is where we are and apparently they came and got them and then when they brought him back to the base apparently they were separated and Air Force Office of Special Investigation and CIA were there and essentially interrogated them both asked them a million questions they sent them both to the hospital after they checked them um for radiation damage they checked their gums and other other medical tests you would do if someone was near something that gave off a lot of energy that you knew would cause biological effects you know and then um they were told never to talk to each other again and the partner was shipped out to another country very quickly soon after that whoa yeah and um what's wild about that is I interviewed other people who didn't know another person who didn't know this guy and he had a very similar story that went down on a different base in a different decade and then the aftermath was like almost exactly the same him and his that guy was in another vehicle he had a partner they were separated told never to talk to each other again same Air Force Office of Special Investigation and CIA asking the questions and then um one of them was shipped to uh based on Japan and this is all this bulky stories that we're saying is you know before the internet before email and you know social media and all that so like you know by telling someone don't talk to each other and then sending them to you know sending one of them to another country you're really like cutting that on communication and people socializing it and have a better chance of it just like kind of like going away you know did you film those yeah filmed all those movies yeah I filmed those and they're really chilling and um um each time each of those interviews um you can really feel when they're like going back in their mind to these memories you could feel how much it like stresses them out like it's like dramatic one guy when he's telling the story actually I I noticed his like me was like like shaking and like like you know when you're thinking about something no dramatic and it's just like going so fast that I I actually stopped the interview and I was like hey man you want to like you want to take a pain you take a break and I how much detail did he give you on like what the beings look like he said one was a really tall humanoid being and then there was other shorter smaller beings that looked different uh with him and he said that one looked more human tall very tall he said humanoid and then smaller ones that did not look the same and um and he said that the tall one how you could see in the climbers eye had what looked like like a cattle prod like a device in its hand that was like a like a pole and he did the only reference point he had was cast while I'm talking about the I do remember that yeah yeah there's all this overlap in these stories and you know a lot of them um a lot of them happened in um in different they happened in different years and like the circumstances um there's also like a lot of there's a lot of like um you gotta I I personally think there's a difference between uh trap the difference between Travis Walton and these guys to me is these guys were trusted enough to work on nuclear weapons bases right they were placed in positions of authority yes as security forces on a nuclear weapons base they have to be also during the cold war they have to be proven psychologically sound yeah to be in charge of those places and I think like if we put herself in the context of history like during the cold war there would have there would have been even more um thoughtfulness put towards who gets those jobs you know and so um yeah it really made an impact on me uh I just felt for this film you know it it was a bridge too far and we could get to that point next you know I think I I was really trying to make a movie that was not just for people who are already completely immersed in this topic and interested in it you know I wanted to make it for the every man so that the average person could understand this is a real and serious situation and I do feel like that mission was accomplished um especially in how it led to this directive from Trump I feel like the average person seeing 34 really credible military government intelligence officials and people like Rubio and Sinarounds and Chilobran and White House National Security Council members alongside generals and admirals I do think it just makes an like a massive impact on people yeah the average person you know I want to think about like my folks in Jersey in their mid 70s like who've never watched any documentary on this topic you know then they watch this and like all of a sudden like what this is real yeah yeah you know you think about those normal people the normies as you said um yeah that's who I was making the movie for and I think now that the average person is aware that this is real I think we can get to those other you know content whether it's documentaries or whether it's scripted movies or whether it's um whether it's just you know news program special yeah I'm sure there's so many more branches and so many more story lines that you could have followed and you can make you know movies about all of those yeah I'd like to I really I I enjoyed making the film and I enjoyed the process of like making making impact I do think the problem with it is like when you're doing that kind of thing and I'm I've done it before it's like there's so much good shit you got to delete oh yeah this this was the hardest creative process of my entire life yeah you know I've been as a producer I've I've I've built from the ground up a bunch of movies and TV shows you know including Ready Player One I developed that from the very beginning when it was you know we just said the book to start with the book by Ernest Klein um and developing movies and TV shows is hard it's a it's a process it's a hard creative process um but this was the hardest creative process because you know there was there was a there could have been a four and a half five-hour version of this movie right that ten people would have watched because it would have been too long you know um but um you had ten people would have watched it yeah more than ten more than ten people would have watched it but you know there's a huge population uh uh that will not watch a movie if it's over two hours. Yeah, you know, or they'll doze off or they'll watch it in parts like three parts or something. Then it's a series and series. I don't think series have the same cultural impact as movies. Right. Just don't agree. They don't the same staying power or they're not as evergreen. Right. And you know, a standalone movie. It's a lot to ask someone to watch a whole series. Yeah. If you ask your friends, honestly, how many series they start and don't finish? Yeah. It's gonna be. And then you're gonna do the whole thing with the cliffhangers to get them into the next episode and all that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had the thought of course, but then I was just like, no, that's not going to make the same impact. Right. But a movie, you know, yeah, someone tells you someone, you know, I see it all the time. People say my friend told me to watch the disclosure and like, you know, I went home and I watched it that night. Like you could do that. You can accomplish that mission in under two hours. You can watch this movie. You can completely learn the lay of the land. You can now be able to talk about it. You can now know what's real and what's not real. Yeah. You can't do that with a series. No one's gonna. When you did Ready Player 1, how much interaction did you have with Spielberg? A lot. Yeah. I mean, first off, like I said, I think he's the greatest director of all time. No one, no one inspired me more. Not only to become interested in this topic because of movies like ET and Close Encounters, but also to get into filmmaking. I remember when I was a kid and I became obsessed with ET and Close Encounters, I remember reading about how he made short films as a kid in like middle school and high school. Yeah. On 16 millimeter film and 8 millimeter film. And he used him and his, you know, he did like, he wore a bunch of hats. He would like edit them and direct them and produce them and then his friends would be in them. His family members would be in them. And so I was inspired to do the same thing. So like, I didn't have any, we didn't have a lot of money growing up, you know, normal, like, you know, middle class in Jersey. And so I saved up shovel and snow in the winter and, you know, mowing lawns in the summer to buy a camera, a super eight camera, a 16 millimeter camera, and to buy film and a little splicing machine, a little editing splicing machine, like before digital editing, you literally had to like cut the film, right? And so I wrote, directed, produced and edited these little short films that my neighborhood buddies would, would, would star in. One of my best friends shout out to Phil Dejardad and Dan Gomez. Yeah, they, my buddies growing up would, would play these roles out of game. Yeah. A few times I convinced like local police department guys to participate. And we would do, I remember one. This is actually hilarious. There's just one short film I made where two buddies of mine, Phil and Dan, they rob a 7-Eleven and it's like in the movie in this little short. It's just like a, it's like a heist, little three minute heist, right? And I wanted a police car chase. So at the time I was working at the local Pizzeria, working the counters, like, I think it's like probably freshman year in high school. Yeah. The cops came in and they'd always eat really cheap. The role was, the owner would let us charge cop 10 bucks, no matter what they, they could get $30 of the food 10 bucks. And so they liked us. And I remember I asked officer Tim Durkin shout out to officer Tim Durkin. I remember asking, I said, hey, will you, will you participate in this police chase in my short film? And the guy did it. He did it. And I sped up the film, you know, you can speed up film, right? So he was going fast, but I made him look like he's gone really fast. And he's peeling around corners in our little suburban Jersey neighborhood. That's absolutely hilarious. And he got really into it. I mean, this great camera movement at the end, we're like at the end, like when the, when the two thieves get away, he like slams on his break, hops out of his car and like the camera moves around the door, like, and he just looks like a badass. And he loved it. And he had a great time. And when I go home for the holidays, to my little Jersey town, I often bump into him at the local bar. And he always brings it up. He's like, man, that was awesome. Yeah. So I had all these, I like, I tried to add like production value to all the things I did as a kid and was making these short films. Yeah. And try to make it, you know, I kept viewing each one as a challenge. Like I would get a police car chase or I'd get like the local EMTs, the ambulance is to like, you know, shell up in a scene and like, but I was very inspired by Spielberg to do all that. Like reading about him, the fact that he did those kids what made me want to do as a kid. And yeah, I made, I made like a, I probably made like a dozen short films on super 8 and 16 throughout middle school and high school. And it really cemented, you know, my, my desire to get into the movie business and make it a career, you know. And so years later, when we developed Ready Player One. So the way that started is Ernie, Ernie Klein wrote the book, amazing book. He's an amazing author. And, and I started collaborating with him and we, I set it up as a producer, I set it up at Warner Brothers. Got to my board to, to fund the development of it and pay for the adaptations to be written. And that process started in 2010, a year before the book came out. And then the book came out and became this big, you know, sensation, instant bestseller. And we continued developing the screenplay. And then it got to the point in spring of 2015, we had a draft that we all loved and studio loved. And we needed a director and we brought it to Spielberg and he loved the script and he read the book and loved the book. And I remember learning at the time that his wife had coincidentally just listened to the audio book on her morning walks. And so she had been talking about it coincidentally. And then we offered it to him and it was kind of like, you know, he's here to be hearing from multiple people how wonderful the book was. And yeah. And then so he came on board, spring of 15 and everything got fast tracked. We started pre-production and end of 15. We shot in 16 in the UK in the English countryside. Warner has a studio called Leavesden. And it's about an hour or hour and a half out of London. And we shot there in 2016 and then it was in post-production throughout all of 2017. And then it came out March of 2018. And we premiered it at the South by Southwest Film Festival opening weekend, Sunday afternoon of 2018. And that's relevant because a really cool thing for me was when when my movie The Age of Sclosure was done. We also premiered at any exact same slot, Sunday afternoon opening weekend of South by Southwest Film Festival. And we premiered in the same theater, Paramount Theater in Austin, the historic Paramount Theater. It's like an 1100 seat theater. And it was pretty surreal for me. Yeah. Being on stage introducing the movie while I have this memory of sitting in the audience watching Spielberg introduce Ready Player One in the same place. That's pretty incredible, dude. Yeah. Well, it's even weirder, like kind of a glitch in the matrix. It was South by Southwest Film Festival 2006 that I met Ernest Klein, who wrote Ready Player One. So this all kind of happened with a couple blocks of each other, which is kind of weird. That's why. Yeah, it's wild. But Spielberg had a huge influence on me and, you know, he talked to him about this whole topic, this alien you. Just a little bit on on set, making the movie. Yeah. You know, he, uh, he's got a new movie coming out. Yeah, he's got, he's got, he's got disclosure day coming out in June. And I think it's going to make a huge impact. I think the one, it's like a one to punch, I think, like this documentary makes people realize how real this is and how serious it is. And then you get like a big popcorn movie from like the greatest filmmaker ever that, you know, shows a grounded story dealing with this. I think the combined impact of that is going to really open people's minds. I mean, if me watching Close Encounters as a kid, and E.T. as a kid, led to me having this lifelong interest in eventually making this documentary. Right. What is the combined impact of my doc and his film going to do for someone else, you know, or for other people or for the collective, you know, yeah. Um, so I think, I think movies man make a bigger impact on culture than anything else. Totally. I really believe that. And, um, I think you get, especially in this day and age where everyone's so ADD and looking at a million things on their social media scrolls like movies or those, it is like, you know, in rare error in that like, you get someone's focus for like an hour and a half to two hours. That's what they're focused on. You know, and it makes an emotional impact on them. Yeah. They learn something from it. They take some away from it. It makes them think about things and thought about, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's a powerful, it's a powerful force of movie, I think. And so, especially when you like, uh, really have to invest in it, you know, like when you had to get in the car, drive there, go sit down, you know, buy your popcorn, buy your soda, sit down, put your phone away, make sure your phone's on silent, you know, like, the fact that we don't do that anymore is kind of sad because that's like, you're, you're so locked in when you're, when you're there and you're, you're that invested in it, you can admit it that much time to doing it. And now it's just like, oh, we watch half of them on our phone, half of them on our laptop at night. We split it into multiple days because we don't have fucking time. Yeah. And, um, oh, man, I don't know where that goes, but yeah, no, it's what it says. I do too. I do too. The, um, but making that movie, making Ready Player One, um, I got to say, you know, for a guy who's the most successful person in the history of Hollywood, right? Yeah. Uh, he was very sweet and he was very cool, you know, I was a, yeah. I'm a young producer now. I was a younger producer then. Mm-hmm. And he was still super cool and welcoming. And, you know, when a, when a, when a, when a big directors making a. - Yeah, a big movie, it's their set, right? It's their set and they're gonna job to do, and anyone else there, they have to be cool with, and they have to be welcoming, and they have to be okay with it, right? And he was always cool about that. - Does he shoot, what do you mean? - Like, is he a shooter director? - Is he a cinematographer? - No, no, no, he has, he has go-to cinematographers. - Okay. - Some directors like to use the cameras. The one he uses the most is Yamish Kaminsky, who shot our movie, amazing cinematographer. Also, a great guy, and it was, it was an, I mean, put yourself in my shoes, man, I mean, literally my favorite filmmaker was a kid, and the biggest influence on me, and I'm getting to be on set with him, making a movie that I developed, right? The script I developed. - That's pretty incredible. - I thought I was like, it felt like a kid in a candy store, and, but he was very cool, and I remember actually one day early on, and making that movie myself and Ernie Klein, were in the lunch line with the crew, just filling up a plate of food. We're pretty far down the line. I'd filled a full plate of food, and Steven's assistant came up behind us, and was like, hey guys, I don't wanna interrupt you, but no pressure, I remember saying no pressure, but Steven's having lunch by himself right now, and I wanna know if you guys wanted to join, but no pressure. - We both instantly just dropped our plates, we're like, let's go, let's go. - We don't need lunch. - And then, and then like, that was a great memory. I remember he, he's telling us like, he's just like, you know, he was the coolest version of himself. We, he was telling us stories about Jurassic Park and jaws, and that's amazing. - We were just sitting there with our shit. - With our jaws on the floor. - Wow. - I remember literally walking away from that lunch and being like, I cannot fucking believe that this happened, you know? - That's wild. - Yeah. - Fun fact, I was a production assistant, or a camera production assistant on a movie with a cinematographer who did Independence Day, the DP of Independence Day. It's amazing. - That's the closest I've ever gotten. Anything cool like that. (laughing) - I love that movie, man. - And now I look back at that movie differently. You know, there's that great scene where Bill Pullman who plays the president. - Yeah. - He says, some line basically, essentially saying, someone brings up the idea that like our government has a secret UFO alien program, and he says some line like, you know, ah, that's all conspiracy, that's all bullshit. And then the guy who plays the head of the CIA, an actor named James Redborn, who's passed away, actually lived in my hometown. He played the head of the CIA, and he has that famous line from the movie where he goes, he's like, well, sir, that's not exactly true. (laughing) And then boom, they're at Area 51. I want to see who that was. I'm not, it's not ringing to bell right now. - So James Redborn's the tall guy, white hair. He was in the talented Mr. Ripley. He's in a lot of movies. He was in the game. Remember the game, Michael Douglas? - Oh, yeah. - That's an amazing movie, by the way, the game. - Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. - Yes, okay. - Yeah. - Really great. - Oh, dude, yeah, he was great. - He played, you never saw the game with Michael Douglas? - It's been a long time. I have seen it, I have seen it. - Now movies, bonkers. Yeah, he played the guy in the game. - Yeah, I remember that now. - Oh, boss, I remember that now. - But he had never been like, Mr. President, that's not exactly true. - That's not exactly true, yeah. - It's so good. - Yeah, dude. - I remember that there. - I remember watching that moment and being like, awesome. And then next to another at Area 51 and then Jud Hersh who plays. - Really? - Yeah, exactly. But do you remember like the Area 51 where they're like, who pays for all this stuff? When they show the hanger with the UFO and stuff, they're like, who funds all this stuff? And then someone's like, you really think a toilet seat cost $5,000. So basically like, basically saying that like, there's all these, basically saying, there's all these line items in DoD's budget that actually go towards something else. That's like, that's what they were saying. - Oh my god. - It was like the popcorn movie way of saying, like Mr. Plane's son's, wow, they're just hiding it all and fucking move. I gotta go back and watch that movie. - It's a really good movie man. - It really is. But like going back, like after like everything we know now and going back and watching some of that shit, it's like, can be eye opening. - Yeah, that's what I said about the abyss. - Yeah. - Go back and watch. - Oh yeah. - James Cameron's abyss, you know? And then he went down this whole, you know, the Avatar movies and dealing with life from elsewhere. And you know, I think he was ahead of his time for sure. - There was a story. - There was a story. - There was a story speaking of the abyss. There was a story that you left out. I heard about some guy recovering a vehicle out of the ocean or something. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the people I talked to who wouldn't go on camera, he was a special forces guy who had been involved in a UAP event and it's a long story, but the summary is when we test missiles, there's a couple ways we test missiles. So it's not generally speaking. But one of the ways we test missiles, we shoot them out into the ocean, they drop into the ocean, they go far distance and they drop into the ocean. And then we send special forces teams to go recover them. Usually like Navy SEALs, they'll just go recover the missile. They put it on some kind of like a recovery system and they bring it up into a chopper, take it back and then they pull all the data from it for their test, like, you know, how it performed. So that's just like a thing we do. And so one of these tests happened and the recovery was happening and this guy was in the water with a couple of his colleagues and they had like a, you know, I don't know what the correct word is. - Did you tell you what ocean? - No. I don't know if it was a chain or a pulley system but whatever they had. They had this system for connecting the missile and there was a helicopter floating above them. There was a few of these guys in the water doing this and then apparently a giant UAP came out of the ocean, a classic saucer UFO and it was just there. They look up, they're freaking out, people in the chopper are freaking out and apparently this thing just took the missile somehow. Like they described it as like a magnet almost, like it just took it. - Whoa. - Yeah. And then it took off. - And these guys were just swimming in the water. - Yeah. - Oh my God. - Yeah. - Yeah. (laughing) - That's fucking terrible. - It's crazy. It's crazy. But it was a really credible guy and he wouldn't go on camera. He wouldn't do it. Wouldn't do an interview. He was, I thought he was gonna at one point but decided couldn't do it. But apparently that kind of thing has happened before. - It's not like an isolated incident. The ocean stuff is definitely fascinating. - It is. - It really is, man. - We might find out there's a whole civilization under the ocean. - Totally. - Totally, man. I had this NASA guy on about a year ago, Kevin Canuth. He was a former NASA contractor and he was explaining to me. He made so much sense when he explained this to me. He says, "If you're a interplanetary civilization and you want to jump between planet to planet, he goes, it's not a good idea to stay in the atmospheres 'cause the atmospheres are so volatile from planet to planet. Like, the atmosphere of Venus is like 900 degrees Fahrenheit on like a cold day. So it's like, it's like a fucking hell, right? And not only that, but like the pressure's different. There's volcanoes, asteroids, comets, all kinds of shit you can't predict in the atmosphere. But if you can find a planet with liquid water, liquid water can only exist between 33 degrees and like 200 degrees Fahrenheit. And the pressure, if you want to get the pressure right, you just dial it down to the depth. You're gonna get the right pressure depending on the depth that you're at. Well, the atmospheres that you're at. So you would just go to water worlds because you can get the exact temperature and pressure. And if you had the ability to warp space time in a localized area, create like a bubble around your craft, that's the key to interstellar travel. You could explore, you know, our galaxy, other galaxies, and you could find these places. - Right, totally. - We definitely, the key to interstellar travel, which is wild. But by the way, the other thing is maybe think of, we're talking about Spielberg. He was so ahead of his time with this topic, right? Like he clearly had some insight in the '70s when he made close encounters. And when he made ET. - Definitely. - But he also, people forget. He also wrote poltergeists, poltergeists. The movie, I didn't know he wrote them. - Yeah. - About paranormal activity and a family dealing with it at home. And he was very ahead of his time. Go back and watch, watch poltergeists. - I like to get that guy some true serum. (laughing) - Yeah, no, he's tackled some really interesting topics for sure, and I'm pumped for disclosure day. I will definitely be watching that movie in the theater open weekend, 100% bro. - I think he had, I think he had real consultants. In the same way that before I made the age of disclosure, I formed relationships with high-level and tone officials who really kind of like helped me understand the layout of the land and how serious it is and how real it is, and you know, my understanding is he also had insights. Jack Valle was one of the consultants on the movie. That's the French scientist character. And then Closet Garner is based on Jack Valle. And Jack had worked with Project Blue Book. And, you know, I believe, I believe Spielberg's talked publicly about how Alan Heineck, who was the lead investigator Project Blue Book, was one of his consultants. So yeah, he had people informing him. There's also that great story. story. I can't remember who shared this, but there's a great story about Spielberg doing a screening of ET at the White House for Reagan. And on the way out, Reagan commenting on how there's just a few people who know how close to true the ET story is or how much truth there is or some line like that. I believe Spielberg might have told this story. We got to look it up. We got to find it online, but no way. It's a great story. Look that up. Reagan's to Spielberg ET screening. Reagan Spielberg ET screening story. Yeah. See what comes up with that. Yeah. I can't remember where. I haven't, I've never heard that. Yeah. Who was the president that was super obsessed with UFOs? Well, there was a lot. Ford was into it. Carter was into it. Reagan was into it. There was a story. It was a famous story of Jackie Gleason and Nixon. Yeah. Yeah. So that is a famous story that I've heard as well. Apparently Nixon was a big Jackie Gleason fan. And Jackie Gleason was very obsessed with this topic. Apparently, there was one day where they were talking on the golf course about it. And Nixon apparently said, you know, basically this is a fucking alien real. I'm going to show you some stuff. And apparently he showed him a recovered UFO on a military base. So I thought he showed him an alien, I thought the story was he showed him an alien body. Oh, well, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. That's, that I could be wrong. That's what I was talking about. And this and this particular story just has said, I don't, I don't know what source that came from. This is just something that's kind of like a story. It's like a myth that's out in pop culture. I don't know if it's real or not real. But the Reagan thing, I'm pretty sure. Oh, here's the, here's the story about Spielberg and ET. Can you zoom in a little bit in the new interview? Ain't cool new Spielberg details. The time you screen the classic film ET at the White House for Reagan and distinguished guests and the former president's coy response to the alien epic. He just, this is a quote from Spielberg. He just stood up. He looked around the room, almost like he was doing a head count. And then he said, I want to thank you for bringing ET to the White House. We really enjoyed your movie. And then he looked around the room and said, and there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true. Spielberg remembered. Wow. And Spielberg says he said it without smiling without smiling. Yeah. So that's the story. I remember. And Stephen did say that I saw the interview. That's actually an on camera interview, I think. No way. So yeah. And that, when you combine that with Reagan gave a speech at the United Nations that most people either don't know happened or forgot about, I put it in my film in the disclosure. He gives a speech where he talks about how he often thinks that the one thing that will unite humanity amongst adversaries is a threat from another intelligent life from outside this planet. And how it will help us see more of what we have in common differences. We'll think of each other as sort of Americans and Chinese and Russians. We'll think of each other as earthlings. Yeah. But the whole thing about that is like put yourself in a shoes. He's the president of the United States. He's giving a speech at the UN. He can say anything he wants. And he chooses to say that he often thinks about this. Why do you often think about this? Unless it's a situation that you have to think about. The president of the United States doesn't have like free time. You know? Yeah. You're choosing very specifically to say that you often think about this. That's wrong. And then there's this, this, this Spielberg story. And there's all the stories. One of the, one of the people I interviewed, there was actually a few people I should make this clear. There's a few people I interviewed that I didn't end up including in the film simply because there wasn't time. Or like what they talked about, there wasn't like an organic way to get to it in the context of the doc. It would have felt like a, like a right hand turn out of nowhere, you know? And they were really great people, super credible. I'm grateful they gave me their time. And one day I will put those interviews out to somehow, since some, some form. But one of them was a former NSA guy who was involved in Reagan Star Wars program. And he says on camera that he came to understand the concern about UAP coming in out of our atmosphere was one of the motivations for the Star Wars program. Wow. Yeah. Pretty wild. That is fucking nuts. Yeah. And he also talks about how Reagan was, had, had learned how real the situation was. Now, it's revealed in my film that most US presidents are kept in the dark on this. They're not told the truth. And that they're told the base facts. I think some presidents, my understanding is some presidents once they learn the base facts kind of like on their own figured out the rest. But they're largely just kept kept in the dark. Yeah. But yeah, Reagan. And then Bush, the other, the other one who has a big role we talk about in the film is Bush to, excuse me, Bush one, Bush senior. When he was director of the CIA, he was not read it on this. He was not told the truth about the crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. And when, but that he found out that it existed. And then when he became president, he went out of his way to learn the truth about it and got very involved. And then his son, Bush too, knew the base facts. He wanted to disclose it. And he was contemplating disclosing it. So he held a multi-day think tank. We talk about it in my film. One of the people who participated in the think tank is Dr. Hal Pudoff who's in my film. He tells the story about how he and I think he said like it does in other people from various parts of society, scientists, people from finance were put in a room basically and told that the Russians and the Chinese and the Americans have all recovered technology of non-human origin. And it's circumstances that we're all dealing with. And that the president was contemplating, stepping to the microphone and telling the world the base facts. And he wanted this group of people to assess what the repercussions would be, what the impact would be on society and rank it from a one to 10 scale, each vertical, like the impact on religion, the impact on the economy, the impact on just a list of things, right? And they all went into it thinking this was going to be a good thing. And then when they started to like, honestly evaluate it and like run the numbers, they decided that it was not a good idea. And that there was more more than good than pro relative to the story is the fact that it was like just after 9/11. So the context also was like the world was already dealing with, you know, being curveball and chaos and, you know, the global war of terror started and, you know, the timing of it also was a factor. But Hal goes on the record on camera saying he participated in this. And this was an actual process that happened in our lifetime just wild, you know, the thing felt like you think back to the, you know, Bush to his presidency and you thought you knew what was going on in the world. And this was happening in a room secretly in DC. That's crazy. And then when asked about it, I found a clip of Bush asked about it, Bush to being asked about it on Jimmy Kimmel. He's like, I'm not going to tell you. Yeah. Right. And timing wise, it was soon after this panel. And he says, uh, Kimmel goes, you know, have you looked into this and he thinks for a second, he goes, yeah, but not going to tie. Right. And when you put it all together, you're like, wow. So yeah, I think some presidents have found out and then ultimately been discouraged from, um, sure for it on it. Yeah. But, well, we'll see if Trump can see this legacy and be the one that does it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's see what happens. And, you know, come back and talk about it. It's a crazy shit happening right now. Trump doing this, saying scientists, we'll see. Yeah. It's going to be an interesting year. We are 100% living in the age of disclosure. That is for sure. Um, I do think a lot more is going to be coming out though, seriously. And, and everyone should look for Jay Straton's book. That's below people's minds. Um, I'm, I'm thinking about what the next film I'm going to make is, um, I'm having some high level conversations with folks in government about doing a follow-up film. Um, there's also a bunch of these like standalone stories that I'm interested in. Like we've talked about a few of them that could be on their own standalone docs, like deep dives down a specific situation that happened in the same way that James did that great film, um, of contact and focused on that one event. Um, and, um, yeah. And I'm building, you know, I, I, um, I founded a relentless releasing the distribution company that, that released the film and, um, building that and, uh, going to be releasing other movies as well. So, um, that's awesome. Yeah. I'm thinking about a bunch of different things for, for, for what's next. Well, it's a fantastic film. And it's definitely doing a huge part, moving the needle and getting people talking about this and making it more normalized and, you know, helping us push this out so we can finally get the truth, hopefully in my lifetime. Yeah, we will. And thank you for putting, uh, starting a light on this topic, man. I mean, every, every conversation you have about it helps normalize it and make people realize what's going on. Um, my pleasure, man. I enjoy, I enjoyed every moment of this and, uh, we'll, we will link your film below. Thank you. And all that good stuff. And thanks again, dude. Thank you. Appreciate it. Oh, man. Cool. Good that world.