#38 Moeilijk eetgedrag bij jonge kinderen

[Music] Dear listeners, welcome to "Under Mamas", a podcast made for and for mothers where you can listen to warm stories and practice tips from experts from children's to childhood. I am Sonja Peepaert, mother of Thur and your host in this episode. Welcome, Ann. You are my guest today in the "Under Mamas" podcast. That's right, I'll invite you to join us. We're going to talk about hard-to-eat food with children. Still, a very popular topic among parents with young children who often experience a lot of stress at the eatery. But tell us, who are you? I am Ann, I am a child dietist. I have two sons, one of four and one of almost three. I am 14 years old with my husband and I also have a dog, a Dal Maasheer, who is called Pepper and who makes us look complete. I am a child dietist and I specialized in hard-to-eat food for young children. I have my own practice at home and I also participate in a group practice. "Kinderkracht Eikers" is called in Hoogstraat. And we offer the logo "Kindercoaching Dietitiek" for all children. Yes, a lot of room. When did the choice or where did the choice come from to specialize in hard-to-eat food for children? For me, children are the adults of tomorrow, of course. And I noticed in my practice that there are a lot of questions about how I can raise my child health. I also noticed that a lot of adults are going to a fight with what is a healthy relationship with food, what is a healthy relationship with their own body. And that's the choice for children in my specialization. Because I find it very important that children really learn from a young age what a healthy relationship with food and with themselves is in my diet. At what age do you specialize? I see children in pregnant women, of course, but I see children from 0 to 18 years old. My specialization in the selective diet actually looks between two to six years, about. Is this a moment for children or does it happen a lot in that age category? I'm talking about most of the children, because I don't see them in my practice, that the first period of suckling is going relatively smoothly. Children are also dependent on the parents. For love, for warmth, also for food. So I'm going to tell you about it very smoothly. But then comes the phase of individualization. Children recognize or discover that they are actually their own individual. And that's where the footsal neophobie or the fear for footsal is also part of it. So from the period of two years to the age of six years, each child goes through it. And that's what you do together with that development, yes. Suddenly he gets other food for himself. Don't you think that's more delicious? I think it's more affordable, but I don't want to test it anymore. Let the board be there, play with it, all the scenarios that parents make up. And yes, or recognizable situations. There are certain patterns that you recognize in the development of food. It's so that children, whether they get that solid food or that they make a transition to more variation, so not just that milk food, that it sometimes makes it difficult for many children. It's so that in the first year of life, the weight of the body should only go three. So that's actually a very big need for energy, that a child needs food as well. And that ensures that children are often less selective because there is a lot of energy needed. After that, they will never make such a big leap in their lives. After that, they still need to grow, but much less. And yes, we see from the age of 18 months, two years, that then the diversity in food comes and that it is indeed difficult for children. Yes, because then we start with solid food, different textures, also a sensitive period, because it all comes new and new in the mouth. I think that it also has something to do with the reaction why a child reacts to that specific food. That's correct. That is mainly historically grown. If we look at her very much back in her childhood, then we actually drove, as a mother, our child always with us. After that, so that's the phase of responsibility, your child is always with you. After that, the phase of individualisation comes and your child will actually get rid of that mother. In the past, for example, if your child went to the forest alone, then that can also be very dangerous if your child is not fond of strange things. So that's why it's historically grown. That's why we also gave birth to food, for sour things, for salt things, and a given protective mechanism for sour and bitter foods. If your child went to the forest alone, he would pick fruits and put them all in his mouth. We notice that with sour and bitter things, that there can also be a given protection, and that's why there is more protection for something. That food will disappear comes from what happened in the past. All that has happened with us. Historically, that's correct. Indeed. Now we see that food comes from there. In that phase of selective eating, food is not forbidden, so that fear for food comes from there. That fear for food doesn't mean that it will go over new things. That can be good for your child, that your child will like it, or make the texture that your child already knows that it will be difficult all of a sudden. How can you predict that food? Do you go into the evolution of two to six years? How does that work? First, the cherry tomatoes were delicious, then they suddenly became no more delicious. Does your child refuse the food? How do you deal with that? That is a very yellow pattern. It can be that your child will like it on week one, spaghetti or cherry tomatoes, as you say, very delicious. And the week after, he thinks, first of all, I found it, I'm going to give cherry tomatoes, and your child doesn't have to have that at all. So that's right, that's a very yellow pattern. And that actually goes with the starting of the individualization. So your child notices, I'm a person on my age, I'm two, and I say no, it's a very classic, and that you often know the parents very well. So the individualization of your own individual has a very big role there. They feel that they have power. But if you look at it this way, there is a limited food pattern. Because there are a number of things that fall away. You don't want to eat it anymore. It is very disgusting. Or it can become a fight on the table. And indeed, the phase of the food xenophobia, or the phase of the selective diet, is something that makes every child go through. Every parent wants their child to grow healthily. I notice that very often in the practice. But sometimes we are actually an ender, and then I hear that it becomes a fight. And I find that very unfortunate. I think with the right tips and tips, that you can quickly change that. So I would certainly say, don't stop when it doesn't work out how it has to be. Because it is also important to zoom in on the child itself. Because often it is very busy. And those eating moments, there can be a bit complicated. To make them healthier, to make them healthier, to increase the anxiety of the child. I think there are a number of things. We are also not quite there. That a child, also at that age, can often be sick. The taste is influenced by that. In that period of disease, that a child says, I don't want this anymore, I don't have to anymore. After a period of disease, or during a period of disease, the taste experience changes in the mouth. And that can make sure that after that, after that period of disease, that certain foods, certain foods groups, sometimes also go more difficult. One side comes by disease itself, can also come by medication that has to be taken, during that period of disease. It is also important to give time to that. And that comes back, because it is very frustrating, especially if the selective diet has already been there for a long time. Yes, because that is getting more and more limited, what you can still give. And above that, you also get some unusual indications from your surroundings. Because everyone knows better, the best stewardess is always there. It will go a long way, they do it without eating, and so on. And then you have the feeling that something is wrong, but is that also true? I think, indeed, if it is about children, that everyone always has a lot of tips and advice. I think it is important, as an elderly, to trust in the fact that you know what your child needs. But on the other hand, if you notice that you do not know it anymore, that you will definitely also call for help with children who are dietists, we are there for that. So people can surely ask for help, if they notice that they do not get it around themselves anymore. (music) Because then you come to a point where you keep looking for solutions, that it does not work. You look for a way to eat your child. Good-natured attempts of parents, such as punishments, staying at tables, getting angry, these are things that are better not to occur. I think that's right at the moment, and that is also my mission. At the moment, there must be a moment of connection, that must be fun and fun. And I absolutely think with a child, with selective diet, that it is not always the case. But it is up to me to see how we can do that. I think safety, care for a child is very important. And I think that moment of connection, that safety at the table, that it is something that children can take care of, that they do not want to do or want to prove again. We are still bourgeois, but that is also the table. Part of the culture. Being forced to eat, or to buy something else, those are all the things that you probably already have, made in your practice. That is indeed a bit of a maneuver, when you are at the end of the advice. So I absolutely understand that these are things that parents try, because you want your child to eat healthy things, or to try to eat the vegetables for sure. Being forced to eat seems to me not a good idea. Why? When we actually look at the diseases, we see that they are stimulated very hard, or that we always give advice to feed on questions. So when the baby is hungry, we will give him breastfeeding or breastfeeding, and that is highly respected. But regardless of whether he is making an oversupport to fast food, you have a lot of parents' idea, now I will determine how much to be eaten, and that feeding on questions falls all the way down. So I think that is very important, to keep that in mind, and to trust your child, that they feel hungry and sad, that they are respected by us as parents. When you look at buying food, I also think that it is important to offer as much food as possible neutrally, and to ensure that you don't make one thing better than the other. If you, for example, say to your child, you will soon get an egg when you have eaten your broccoli, you also say to yourself, "Unrestricted, a broccoli is so terrible that you have to get an egg for it." And I don't think that is the message that we would like to bring, or that we can ensure in the long term that your child will have a healthy relationship with the meal. Also very recognizable, it is obligatory to eat on the board, or to eat on some grounds. Yes, I think that parents are quickly convinced to focus on the grounds or fruit, but I think that it is very important to give your child what freedom is. Plus, in my practice, I often look at the long term results, it makes no sense to let your child eat those two little broccoli, you don't make a healthy meal there, or you teach your child not to eat healthy food there. So I think that is very important, to always keep the long term results in your background. Yes, because this can have a different effect. That's right. You try not to reduce your child to a difficult diet, because you know it is more than that. That is absolutely true, and I think it is very nice to hear that. I think that as an elderly person, if you are really an elderly person, you can also create a bit of a vicious circle, where you think in advance, "Oh, no, I made one too, that's not going to work." Your child comes to the table, it starts to struggle a bit, and you already have something like that. "See, I'm not going to eat again, and you don't want anything, or you never eat." That also gives your child the message, "I'm not going to lose trust in you." I think that is very important, because as an elderly person, to keep giving the message, it may not work now, but it will still work. You can say to yourself, "You don't want it yet, or you are still going to learn, and then you can actually look at your child together, how can we offer it in a way that works for you, or that is safe for you." Are there still marks or actions that you have left behind? There are different things that you don't do better, I think, like what you said, to reward yourself with food, that that is indeed not a good choice, to be obligated to eat, to wait until the board is empty, that are all actions that I certainly wouldn't advise to do. Yes, especially with the school, you know, you come home, how do you all handle that? That is indeed a difficult thing to do, sometimes at home, after school, after a long day, you are tired, you don't really have a lot of energy. I think the fault that is sometimes made, is to put everything in at once. That is what I mean. We choose the warm meal, traditionally we offer vegetables, certainly of course a very good choice, but if your child then has to go to school, it is difficult with those vegetables, and for you, as an elderly person, the focus is just very hard on the food of those vegetables, then it can often also be completely missed, if your child then doesn't want to eat those vegetables, because then you think, "Oh, no, my child has eaten all that vegetables, that's not a good idea." While it actually, if you try to spread it, for example, put a piece of corn at the frying pan, a piece of tomato in the broth for breakfast, then you also spread the opportunity to offer those vegetables. You take care of one more type of blood, so your child is given blood at different times, and you are also going to be able to make sure that you can eat at different times, and that is very important. And it also gives the example of different colors of vegetables or fruits. That is also important, right? That's right. So children can certainly have a real advantage to color, to taste, to texture, but certainly also to color. And then you sometimes notice that, for example, red things for some children are still very difficult, but green things do work. And then you can choose to offer a portion of corn, as you know that your child likes to eat, with a piece of tomato, to make sure that the pressure to taste is small. Yes, yes, yes. You already know that you know how to eat, but you don't know how to eat. Unfortunately, you will always lose this fight. Because you know how to stick your lips together. Very specifically, we also want to know from Johan what we can do to get back peace at the table. It is very important to get peace at the table to start in a safe climate, to really try to have peace at the table, to offer security. For example, I can choose to cook the food at the right time. At school, we often see that children with certain rituals go over to the next chapter to say so. And you can do that at home. A song that children like to hear when it's time to eat, when your child likes to try to eat at the table, to help in the kitchen and in the kitchen, so that they know that the eating time is still coming. That makes it clear for children. I think that's certainly something you can do. The safety and care that remains for me is really number one. Because that makes sure that children will feel safe when they are ready to go over to the next chapter. Yes, because then we also come to that rule of shared responsibility. That is very important. Yes, that is really very important to handle. What does that rule actually mean? It means that you, as an elderly person, decide what to eat, when to eat, what to eat, and how to eat. And that you, as a child, have responsibility to see if you eat and how much you eat. When we look at what is being eaten, I mean that you, as an elderly person, decide what comes up on the menu. Of course, you can leave the other family members a little with you, but don't let your child decide that it is still spaghetti. Try to offer other meals at the same time. What is being eaten is important because it happens best at the table, really in a way that there is really focus on the eating moment. The more you are eaten, the more about the way of eating the table. And when you are eaten, that determines the time, the eating moments. Yes, yes, yes. Are there ways in which you can stimulate your child to still eat? I think that is important to make sure that you offer safety at the table. And that you can do, for example, by making sure that everyone has the feeling that they can eat with a healthy feeling or with a full stomach. If you, for example, know a dish where everything is done together, that is very threatening for many little children, because they cannot always see what is being served. If you choose to serve at the table, you can also choose to sit on the table with a bread, or when there are potatoes to offer a bite with potatoes separately, so that your child immediately sees when it comes to the table that there are also things that it can eat, that it will also have the feeling of going to the table. And that will also have the pressure of that mixed bowl, or the meal time where the meal has a lot of gruel. So let's take care of that. Yes, I remember my little child period when I was allowed to say that I got a very long purée. That was a safe and proud thing for me, I think. But on the other hand, I don't think that is a good thing to do for too long. Because you don't touch the texture and it all has to be purée. And so it is also for the mouth development, that of our minds, or the breathing in the mouth. Most of us like to offer the two of them. So that purée was safe for you, that is certainly a good choice, but it also offers a piece of potato or a piece of potato that is cooked or steamed, so that you can also learn to taste it yourself, if you always want to eat the same thing. Do you give it a go? To adapt yourself to make it ready what they really like? I don't think that it is the best choice for me at the long term. I think that you mainly keep in mind that shared responsibility. You decide on what comes on the table. And then you can say my child is very sad, spaghetti for example, so once a week I want to sit on the table, and I will be there for the next few days. And then it is important that you look at how I can offer it in such a way that it is possible for my child. If you offer food together, you can take it out of each other. So the meat, the vegetables, the sauce, in such a bag, I think it is very good to offer it in a safe way for your child. But especially as an elderly person, what comes on the menu. And also on the butter ham dough. What you know, there is a lot you can choose for such a case, like chocolate pasta. How do you deal with that? It is indeed such a question of many elderly people. What do we do with that? I think we often also have to look at the case in total. A meat on a butter ham works. Meat does not necessarily have to be healthier than chocolate. The one is not always better than the other. You have to first have a heart on a butter ham and then you can take a sauce. I think if you try to offer food neutrally, that your child will not always prefer just that sweet dish. But I think if you are not there yet, or your child is not yet used to the chocolate or the sweet dish, it is still very attractive. Then you can choose to work with chocolate days, for example. And then you can say, on Saturday and Sunday, for example, we offer chocolate, but you can eat it. Then you can decide for yourself how much butter ham with chocolate you eat. In the other days, there is no chocolate. I am more likely to let it go every day to see how your child will deal with that on a daily basis. Very often, vegetables and fruits will become part of the weight of the food. But it can also be that your child has come in contact with pre-packed food and that this will take the pre-package away. That's right. And then what is actually pre-packed is standardized. That comes from a factory that is standardized. So your child knows in advance, when I open the bag or when I open the pot, I will always look like this and I will make it like this. That is of course completely different. Your apple can be very crunchy, it can be milky, it can be harder, it can be slimmer. The first time it looks red, the second time it has a spot. And there is also no reference frame. So if you always offer words in shift and all of a sudden you put those in long blocks, a child cannot compare with something else. So that is very difficult for a child. That can be very threatening or that can make the situation very difficult. Yes, and the cooking process is also not always the same, right? No, it's correct. Now, as always, that carelessness sticks to the head. Because you would then know that no vitamins are short-created in a different way. That is indeed a question that is asked very often and I think that is indeed the biggest concern of parents. Now, from a scientific research we know that children with normal selective diet who eat more than 10 different foods from different groups of the foods they also eat are actually not too short-created. If you have a child with extremely selective diet that less than 10 different kinds of foods from different groups then that is a different story and you definitely have to let it slide. But if you eat with a child with normal selective diet you always get vitamins, minerals from different foods and then it is too short, very very rare. What methods can you ensure that they get sufficient nutrients if it is perhaps a bit uncertain? I think offering different meals I think that is very important. Again about a five-day meal on a day. So an afternoon meal and an evening meal are the main meals but then we also offer two or three between meals or minimal meals. So between the lunch and the afternoon and the evening meal and then possibly after that warm meal. I think that is very important because between meals the snack moments are also minimal. Don't give your child just a few pieces of fruit that should be enough to reach the next meal. Make sure that it is really well organized. That ensures that the pressure with the main meals is removed because your child doesn't have to suddenly eat as much as possible and that will also ensure that your child is reached the next meal. What do you add to those fruits? What can that be? Something like egg whites for example. So it can be a bit yogurt. That can also be some hummus with some chicken breast with some folk soups. For example, a bowl with a bit of cream is certainly a good choice. You can actually really add it to that. But make sure that there are always various food groups. A bowl with a bite is a very good choice. If your child is older and can already eat a bite a handful of bites is also a very good choice for a long time. A piece of avocado can really go very far. For example, there are a lot of people who are allergic to pasta. Yes, we have to be very careful. And also to the risk of infection. So make sure that your child is old enough to be able to eat that. Maybe test it with a little bit of pasta to see how it reacts to that. Most of the advice is to start with pasta in a small quantity at a younger age to see how they react before you really start with pasta. One of your tips is to combine the toppers and the floppers of your child. That's right. For example, if your child has difficulties with certain types of fruit but other types of fruit are going very well. For example, if your child finds the banana very tasty, but just doesn't like it. Then you can choose to offer a banana with a small piece of mango. Make sure that it is a very small piece that it doesn't overwhelm the child or that it is not threatened by the amount of food that it doesn't like. And then you actually offer the second one together. It is important that you don't expect that your child will also eat the floppers, but that it is cooked and that it feels safe with the person who finds it tasty. That it can also go on to test something that may not go so well. Yes, because we are talking about this here. Learn to taste and discover new flavors. As parents, you are actually the coach. In this case, how do we do that best? I think, as you said, tasting is a learning process. When you learn to ride a child, you first offer the child a walk. You make sure that it is well-coded, that you walk next to it. If you notice that it is going a bit faster, then you leave it on a bike with its wheels. Then you do the wheel drive. You walk next to it. And if you notice that the child is really left out, you are going to let go of it. With tasting, we don't do that. And I sometimes find that strange. "Please, now you have to eat that." So I think that tasting is better than being seen as a learning process. These are all small steps of "Can food be on your plate?" Do you want to feel it? What texture? What temperature? Is it tasty? Give it a kiss. After that, it can also be automatic. We put it in our mouth. We give it back a little. And after that, we slip it around. We are often faced with the idea of tasting is to take a big bite that sticks in our mouth, how we slip it around. And we also like to find it tasty. But that is not really how it works for children in practice. How many times do you have to try to get used to the new taste? We notice that the bleeding of a time or ten or fifteen times per food that it is certainly necessary to know how to taste. That can sound overwhelming at the age you are listening to. But in what way can you encourage this? I think it is very important to offer flavors in various ways. For example, in a soup, in a cold, hot thing, that is very important. And don't do everything at once. If broccoli is going to be difficult, or if you don't have three weeks to offer broccoli in all kinds and sizes and shapes, try to spread it over the year. Cook as the season. That is one good buyer. Second flavors are also more important. That is also very expensive. But a meal does not always have to be cheap and healthy. Nothing to do with eating less healthy meals. No, absolutely. I think that neutrality is very important. So trying to have such a neutrality is not the only option. It is better than the other. For example, in a pot-bending box, you don't always have satay-prickers with dinos or edible flowers. Pot-bending with food together is not a big deal. So don't make too much work of it. Just don't make too much work of it. And trying to have such a neutrality in a pot-bending box is not a big deal. So try to have such a neutrality in a pot-bending box is not a big deal. And trying to have such a neutrality in a pot-bending box is not a big deal. So try to have such a neutrality in a pot-bending box is not a big deal. So try to have such a neutrality in a pot-bending box is not a big deal. It is a very good idea. So for example, the meal that you offer to travel is very difficult for your child. Serve a bread to your table so that your child knows that he can eat there. And then it will be faster to try the things that are more difficult. Whether the type of food that you use may be more necessary or the atmosphere around the tables. It can make a difference for a child. Absolutely. I think it could be a moment of connection a moment with the family and I think it is important to share it. Because maybe we can even zoom in on the moment because you will also do groceries at a certain time to prepare the meal and then the vegetables and the meat to buy. It is important that the child also sits in front of the preparation how everything looks that it is going to be nice and then the vegetables are ready and so on. I think it is very important for a child to have a meal and sometimes we are delighted to focus on the meal on the table. But as you say, it is much more than that. It can be on a holiday when you have a young child or several young children to go to the supermarket. But if you try to do something I can let them do things I can let them do things I can make sure that they can eat on a different way than only on the table. And that can also be done in the kitchen with the help of eggs playing for example fruits washing try to vote on the life of your child and if your child is not ready and wants to do that of course you can also make sure that we let them cook in the kitchen or let them prepare the meals. Yes, with help. When you always do it better and that is not different for children. Yes, that makes it completely interesting. And then we go further. You let go yourself small bites of chips let yourself eat. It is very important for children especially in the phase of individualization where they can actually learn their own individuality. So control, autonomy are two basic ingredients. Small bites or small chips let yourself eat seems to me very sensible. Sorry, of course the safety is not with the hot pots and utensils. But that you also learn your child to eat on its own that is very important. Your child then shifts too much many parents find it very difficult and I certainly understand that but try to learn that too start with two small chips if you want you can still take and then you can still shift some extra often if you take that into account his child is aware of the story. I can also imagine that it is difficult for an older woman to estimate what is sufficient. When she eats, my child is now sufficient. The stop after two bites is not enough. How are we going to deal with that? I think it is important to trust and give that responsibility to your child. Your child will give himself when it is delayed and I think that as an older woman how difficult it sometimes is important to respect that too because you will see a meal at a certain moment your child also knows that if you don't want to eat at a meal it is about two or three hours for clarity and that will also ensure that your child stops eating when it is enough. It is very recognizable that you can stop before it is visible with food and afterwards practically ask for a meal. Yes, that is correct. That is indeed a hint that the children have gone through quickly. I think that is important that you understand the meal moment well. If you see a cookie part of the menu or part of what comes on the table that you just put on the table like my dessert, you put it on the table your child decides whether to eat or not whether you want to eat first or not, you choose that child yourself. But if you decide as an older woman that there is no cookie on the table then he will not come to the table for five minutes after the meal time. In my practice I often work with such a plate the kitchen is open or the kitchen is closed because if the meal time is done then the kitchen will be closed the kitchen is closed and then there is no possibility to eat until two hours later. That is often very clear for children. Not always fun, but very clear. Is it clear for the parents? Because we all have an example function and maybe breast, mother or father also eat a cookie after meal time. That is correct. And the child sees it? Yes. The idea of modeling in your example is very important and if you have babies or kidneys then you can indeed do that also to ask a cookie. If you are an older woman then I think that is important to look at. Do you think it is okay that the children take that too? Then you do the best for the children. Don't you think that you have to take a look at how you can do it in a different way? How long do you give your child the time to get used to the new approach? I think indeed for children when they realize that these responsibilities are very well suited that you, as an older woman, keep your responsibilities and how much you eat at meal time that it often goes very well. I also notice in the practice when children realize that it is really okay that they go to the table after two meals and that there is not to be seen that they are not chanted by talking about it or that they are not being punished or punished it actually goes relatively well overall. Finally, do you have a big tip for parents of difficult food? I don't think there is a big tip but I think it is very important for parents to know that it is not their fault that it is part of the development that it is a phase where every child is going through but that some children have that in a more intense phase than others. I think it is very important to give confidence and if you notice that you miss the right hand that you shift your hand and you let it slide I think that is very important. Yes, because having fun together is an important event. I think so too. Thanks for the conversation again a podcast full of learnings for Prilla Ouders who always want to play on the table for an exciting atmosphere. I think we have more than enough skills to go to the slaughter. Thank you very much for the invitation. Thank you very much. Thanks for being here again with the love of the Under Mamas podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. Take a look at UnderMamas.be and follow us on Instagram for extra warm content from pregnancy to childhood. See you next time.