Speaker 1Do you think the number one reason people go out is people relapse, people fail in recovery? What do you think?
Speaker 2I think it's multifaceted. You know, people aren't having a good time. They're not enjoying themselves. They haven't found meaning and purpose in their life. They haven't found a community that they're a part of. There might be mental health issues, you know, depression, anxiety, possibly thought disorders. Could be finances, you know, financial obligations that they can't meet. And the stressors are overwhelming for them. They just want to get a little bit of relief. Every time I relapsed on cigarettes, I just want to drag. You know, I just want to drag. And I have to say to myself, well, you don't smoke cigarettes, so why do you want to drag? And I say, what's the drive or what's the feeling under that drag? Because I know I'll have a drag and I'll be buying a carton within a week.
Speaker 1Same. Welcome to Recovering Out Loud Podcast with your hosts, Anthony and Caleb. In this podcast, our intention is to help the still-suffering addict or alcoholic and provide you, the listener, with our experience, strength, and hope. We share real, raw stories of healing, hope, and breaking free. The opinions expressed here are those of the individuals and not any organization. Please help support the channel by following and rating the show. This is the best kind of donation we could receive. So grab a seat, take a deep breath, and let's get loud about healing together. After that is go use. Yeah. Do some more controlled drinking, right?
Speaker 2It won't be a struggle. Yeah. Until it is.
Speaker 1Okay. Well, listen, Jay, I appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming down. You're welcome. We've been, I know Caleb's not here right now. He's. He's working hard and he couldn't get out, but I know he wanted to be here and he texted me and said, I wish I could be here. Um, and we're having a lot of fun doing this, which is, it's really cool, right? Like I didn't think, um, I don't know. It just seems, it's coming easy, right? It's, it seems like, uh, something that I was, you know, I don't want to say meant to do, but something that I enjoy doing and it doesn't feel like work. Right. So, um, why don't you tell me a little bit about JP? Who is JP? How did you get into, you know, addiction? What, what you were like? What kind of happened and, and what you're like now in a, in a brief way, I guess.
Speaker 2Okay, great. Well, first I want to say thanks for having me down. I really appreciate it. I, I really admire what you and Caleb are doing down here. And, uh, I think it's wonderful, you know, finding a passion and some meaning in, in, uh, you know, life these days. It can be difficult and challenging. Yeah. Uh, so what was I like? What am I like? And where am I going? Yeah. What do you like today? Yeah. Uh, I came into using drugs like anyone else. I thought that, um, I found kind of a magic cure during my late adolescence, you know, when, uh, everybody's struggling for independence, but we ended up all being pretty much the same, same clothes, same haircuts. Um, and I think, you know, just, uh, smoking dope in high school was kind of a, you know, a bit of sense of a rebellion, you know, I'm doing something, you know, that, that, you know, that, uh, uh, individuates me or, or, uh, uh, you know, highlights my independence and autonomy, you know? And, um, I think that kind of carried on to, you know, when pot wasn't enough and this wasn't enough, that wasn't enough, just carried on to more like pills and powders and things like that. I got, I had a travel agency when I was young and that opened up, you know, the trade routes and, uh, that's a whole other podcast. Yeah. Uh, but needless to say that ended up with a long-term government vacation. And, uh, uh, when I got out of that, uh, uh, I swore I'd never go back to the way I was. I still wanted to use recreationally. And I think once somebody gets into the dependency stage, recreational uses is only a myth, you know, for most of us, I don't, I don't know. Maybe some people can have the odd beers here and there, the odd. Yeah. Maybe some people can have the odd beers here and there, the odd. Yeah. Maybe some people can have the odd beers here and there, the odd. Yeah. Maybe some people can have the odd beers here and there, the odd. Yeah. 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Speaker 1Maybe some people can have the odd beers here and there, the odd.
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Yeah. that was like 30 odd years ago I started to work help lines and help other people and I just found I liked it you know I'm a kind of a personable person I went back to school for counseling I worked for Ontario Hydro at the time doing workshops and they sent me to McMaster and I went to George Brown and became a counselor and I guess more recently I started the recovery houses but not recently but about 15 odd years ago I found that there was a hole in the market between public sober houses and private there were no private sober houses in Toronto at the time and a buddy of mine his name's Ori he's actually my boss now over at Jack's Toronto as well and I'll plug them a little bit agency if you need counseling just give him a call yeah great therapists but he had asked me he said you know recovery is kind of boring and I said yeah you got to be like a certain kind of person to have fun in recovery you got to be kind of a fun person you know a little bit crazy yeah you know like you keep that kind of zany kind of like you know spontaneity you know maybe it's you know you keep that kind of zany kind of like you know spontaneity you know maybe it's you know maybe it's a little bit crazy yeah you know like you keep that kind of zany kind of like you know spontaneity you know maybe it's a bit of an immature side to us yeah you know you want to keep that and get rid of the the darker side and he said to me you know I go to meetings I do a little dating I you know go out with people once in a while but for the most time I just go home and you know it's kind of you know I go to work and he said why don't you open up a sober house so I say yeah that's an idea and I just kind of thought about it and I had four or five people in some of the government houses and I talked to them and said would you come into a sober house I got somebody to kind of finance a little bit on a charity side of things and yeah we opened one up I guess about 17 years ago and opened up I liked it you know it was kind of a hangout for people we didn't have a lot of rules or anything back then it's kind of the Wild West of sober houses but everybody had a good time did lots of activities you know a lot of people just hung out it was kind of a place to be when you when you were feeling alone yeah you know because you know you have to kind of admit you're giving up when you say give up drugs and alcohol you're giving up friendships you're giving up activities probably 16 hours out of my day was devoted to either thinking about drugs getting drugs using drugs coming down from drugs thinking about drugs again it's a full-time job yeah so you give that up and you got 16 hours a day what do I do now yeah exactly yeah so that's where I am today
Speaker 1these days amazing and it's it's a recovery place it's called yeah now you're up to three houses four four houses yeah we have four houses amazing
Speaker 2yeah one main house three step downs that uh for guys that don't need the structure of a of a 24-hour staffing house
Speaker 1yeah yeah that's amazing and you know I I want to say like you are a pivotal part even today a pivotal part of my recovery we met 10 years ago in 2015. I was 23 years old and you know I'll never forget Dave my buddy Dave s right good old good Dave s he saved my life one of the many people you as well but he said you know and back then and just like you said I was at a point where you know what my ideas aren't working anymore yeah my plans my designs my great ideas they're getting me in hotel rooms by myself they're getting me snorting coke and I'm feeling good but I want to feel better right oh and I just didn't get it it didn't make sense I was like why can I stop right why can't why do I my dad always say this and I always say it's like Anthony all you care about is the next party and it's true that's all I cared about I didn't care about relationships I didn't care about job I just wanted the next party and when everyone was going home why I was like what the is wrong with you guys like let's keep why are we stopping let's keep going right so we met 10 years ago and and Dave asked my buddy Dave he says you know what I recommend you go into the sober house when you get back home from Minnesota because I was in a residential treatment center in Hazelden in Minnesota and uh I said you know what it I battled with it and I said fine I'll do it and it ended up being one of the best experiences in my life and you know this time around I I came back you know after I relapsed um same thing my buddy Dave you know a different Dave now Dave are at uh the other treatment center that I went to yeah you know we recommend that you do 60 days and you go to another sober house yeah and you know I wanted to ask you this too is like why is this like it's like you know it's like is it that maybe it's I don't think it's just me but why are we so defiant why when someone tells us to do something the first idea in my head is like go yourself I know what's best for
Speaker 2me why do you think addicts are so defiant I think it's control you know drugs are control it's a way of controlling our feelings our moods uh when somebody tells I think human nature is just uh you know when you when you go to feed a baby you know as soon as a baby can it'll hit the spoon out of your hand and it'll try and pick it up and shove it in its mouth yeah yeah you know I think you know human nature is such that we want to exert our Independence we want to be self-sufficient in some way so when somebody suggests something that you know even though it might be good for us you know we only see the short term while they're trying to control me they're taking away my freedom and you know oh the half the recovery house is like a halfway house it's going to be like a correctional facility I'll lose all my rights yeah all my rights I just came to treatment to find freedom from addiction and here I am you know going back into a place that's going to control me and the reality is we just provide the structure you know for people to uh develop healthier Lifestyles what they learned in treatment just carry it forward right so yeah I think when somebody comes to a recovery house they realize wow this is you know I I'm I'm in the Brotherhood yeah you know um you know
Speaker 1with like-minded peers we'll say yeah and I mean that I definitely realized that when I got there I had I learned how to have fun in recovery and one of another you know another pillar in my recovery Coulson you remember Coulson he was a counselor yeah he at your recovery house he took me to my first Club sober yeah and I was able to go to a club which I love to do I love to dance I love to yeah and I went with him and I was scared shitless I remember that I'll never forget that feeling in my gut I'm doing something that feels a little bit wrong yeah and I don't want to I don't have my medicine to like socialize and to oh everyone's looking at me and you know all this it's all no one cares nobody nobody cares whether you drink or not I found that out today right if somebody I found that if somebody has a problem with you not drinking it's probably because they have a problem themselves that's their problem yeah what other people think of me is none of my business right one of my favorite quotes yeah but I learned how to have fun at the recovery place and I truly mean that and today I look back and like that was a moment that I'll never forget right but you said Brotherhood hanging out and you know seeing people that were were going through recovery and having fun and like-minded and you know going to meetings and doing all these things together it's just like this camaraderie that you can't get out here you know what I mean so I was reading a study on your website I don't know if you'll remember this but um it said something like you know you recommend a three-month stay usually after a treatment center or without it but why do you think that three months is the percentages were way higher than from a study that from someone that stayed three months to someone that didn't stay three months why do you think that is
Speaker 2I think it's somebody who who doesn't go right well compared to somebody who doesn't go at all um and we kind of know that three months 90 days you know I don't know if it's um uh scientifically proven or not but the neurochemistry takes time to change or neurons you know takes a little bit of time um you know if I talk about cocaine long enough you know you're going to start salivating yeah you know Pavlov's dog kind of thing right if I talk about I don't know the keg steak you know they're amazing strip loins or something you get that smile on you I'm just picturing it yeah warm is my heart yeah yeah it targets our you know it's it goes our memory goes to our pleasure Center yeah our pleasure Center solicits some chemical response and we like we enjoy that right uh so in 90 days I think the first 30 days what we see is somebody's you know kind of on their best behavior they've got that spiritual bank account you know they've they've gone through a 30 60 90 day treatment Center people have been saying oh my God I can't believe what you shared today I relate to it so much that was amazing you know you start working out you start eating better you start talking to people about more real uh life adventures we'll say or or reality and it's stimulating it's nice to see the world through new eyes sometimes they call it a pink cloud you know we're not seeing the problems in treatment because we're kind of in that bubble yeah so uh they get out they've got that 50 000 spiritual dollars in their bank account uh they go to a couple of meetings they get 50 100 they give their number to somebody they get a number they get a hundred dollars but in the same token they drive down a familiar Street where they used to score they talked to somebody they used to score with those withdrawals are like 5 000 withdraw a dollar withdrawals because it's familiar it's something we know going to a meeting where you don't know people asking for a phone number from a stranger is difficult so it's not a huge you know like doing you know 100 reps of weights that you would normally do kind of thing so it takes more and that's where the recovery houses come in they talk about uh going to different fellowships or different places after care programs and things like that to get some blockers you know to get some strength going to put in those deposits so about 60 days or so we start to see some of the cracks start forming in people where people are saying well i think i could have some near beer or i can smoke some non-habit forming herb because that wasn't my problem or maybe somebody who drinks says you know i could do something else and somebody who smokes weed says i can drink right you know because those weren't my problems but we know bags and bottles it's all the same when it gets down to it you know it's all about controlling our feelings you know having control over ourselves and if we're using bags and bottles to do that we're not cultivating our authentic self we'll say right you know we're looking for something outside of myself that's going to give me the feeling that i want my natural chemistry to start to solicit right uh facing new challenges going to a meeting where you don't know people uh facing adversity um being in the uncomfortable you know and getting through it so when people get through that's when we start seeing the cracks people maybe they want to hang out with their old friends and although they may not have drug alcohol problems it triggers them and they go back to where they were so i guess what what i'm kind of saying is that 90 days in that 60 to 90 day period we can see where the cracks have formed and try and you know bridge that gap for people whatever that is because we're an abstinent based program we're not going to turn to somebody and say well you know yeah you did heroin so here's here's a couple of joints and wash you know we know you'll get dry so you know here's some jack daniels but at least you're not doing heroin yeah exactly so we're not on really a harm reduction in the sober house in counseling i do you know i do i use a more of a harm reduction approach because people don't want to stop you know why stop something that they're enjoying problem is it stops becoming enjoyment and the problems start to mount right um so that's why we say 90 days yeah i love that um you made me think of something too is uh
Speaker 1i had to learn that the hard way with the and for me it was well you know things and i always say this but i crave chaos because the chaos distracts me from how i'm feeling how i'm feeling about myself how i'm feeling in the world so you know when i relapsed this last time it was my life was ordinarily amazing but it was ordinary right and there was no excitement and right uh what i've learned now is that in those moments sometimes you just gotta white knuckle it and call somebody and call a mentor like you said um and get through it because you never feel the same the next day there's so many times where i even just recently i've been like you know what i just need i need to talk about this for one because it kind of halves the problem it takes the power away and two i just need to get to bed tonight and then the next morning i wake up i'm like i can't believe i was thinking about coke like i can't believe it i was thinking about beer or whatever and so i relapsed this last time because i had this adhd problem in my head and i'm like i'm going to fix it i'm going to get some vivance i'm going to you know get a prescription i'm going to do it properly and just like you said i was back doing the coke back doing the meth i and within a matter of you know in a year because i had built up so much recovery before that but then the next time it happened it happened a lot faster and it got a lot worse and i was hanging out with people i didn't shouldn't be hanging out with again right and to your point now it's like the risk reward for it you know trying the near beer like you said i've been hearing a lot about this actually on social media where there's this guy that i follow that uh he drinks in your beers and there was a whole debate in the comments section and i love that i can just look at that and be like you know what i don't even want to go down that path anymore it might seem so insignificant today this zero percent beer and but what's my motive behind it am i trying to steal some vicarious pleasure at the bar or am i really just trying to hide that um i don't fit in feeling so i'm going to drink this near beer and now i fit in right and that's what it is yeah very true yeah yeah usually it's i i want to fit in and i i don't want people to look at me and then so to your point i'm using a crutch now and then you know in no time i'm back where i started but it starts with
Speaker 2something small i think everybody's different you know there's so many roads up the mountain for one person drinking a near beer takes that edge off where they're not going to go and get a real beer you know which might lead to something else you know if they could hold it at that near beer all the power to them absolutely you know if uh you know a heroin addict who's using needles his first step is i'm going to give up the needles right that's amazing you know you got to smoke a joint to get through that heroin craving go for it you know eventually hopefully you know they'll find that uh they're going to put themselves at even lower risk for problems for health concerns right by giving up more and more or you know letting go of uh more of their
Speaker 1drugs and alcohol behavior yeah i remember um when i first you know when i came back the second time you told me um when i was there 10 years ago and i left you thought that i wasn't going to stay sober after that and i found that like i had no idea right so my question to you is and i've always wondered this when people come in to your sober house do you do you know whether they're going to make it or not or what's your kind of thought around that that's such an interesting question
Speaker 2because i worked at uh at uh humber hospital their outpatient program for about 10 years and you know what i'd see guys that struggle and they're questioning everything and i think oh man this guy's going to get out he's not going to have a chance right and i see people like they come in and they're they believe and they have faith and they walk on water and people are asking for their advice they're leading yeah they're the first guy out the door you know they think they got it all they got things under so so much control that they could use again you know and not fall into the same pattern and the guys that are struggling the the men and women that struggle i think they're they they're finding where does this fit in my life you know they're asking those questions because they really want to know if this jacket's going to fit when i leave here you know and um i think with you i didn't have the strong conviction i didn't feel your conviction for recovery yeah i wasn't getting it for me and you listen we're all human you know uh but man you you went on a rip and a tear you were one of the guys if i send somebody somewhere i say hey look look for anthony you know and and i knew that they were going to get the goods on recovery it wasn't going to be and let's go to the strip joint tonight and uh you know we'll pick up you know we'll pick up something on the way yeah uh they're gonna get like this is how you do recovery you want to do it this is how you do it yeah you know i think you had like what i had six seven years i had seven years yeah yeah i i was a long time man you grow up a lot
Speaker 1during the best years of my life yeah best years of my life honestly and uh you know i'm i'm close to feeling like that again you know and i it's funny because in treatment you know my wife rebecca they were telling you know what she was she'd be telling the therapist when am i gonna get anthony version you know 1.0 back right when am i going to get the sober anthony back right right and they would all say the same thing it's like you're not going to get 1.0 you're going to get yeah you're going to get now 2.0 you're going to get better you might not like him you might you know what i mean but it's he's going to be different because experiences have changed i've banged my head a few more times i've scraped my knee a few more times yeah and uh i found a new you know spirituality again um where it involves me waking up every morning and you know i pray but it's it's also too i also remind myself every morning now that i'm an alcoholic i'm an addict and you know i can't control the way i feel with outside substances without going on some you know tear right and it involves that how how do you stay sober today what are some key things in your life you know that help you
Speaker 2that's a good question i i think about that once in a while like why me why you know why am i you know blessed that i don't have like huge cravings and you know i have cravings for other things i think addiction is fluid fluid you know like food has become uh you know my relapse you know i'm kind of a uh food porn addict you know uh you know i look in the fridge what's going on is is there new netflix playing in there today did i get new food and you're expecting it to just show up yeah i do that all the time you know so i call it food porn yeah you know because it's exciting you know there's an excitement too it's a novelty yeah it's you know it it's it's a bad habit i can say um uh that i'm constantly trying to work on you know sometimes i have more success than other times um i think you know at some point i just lost that desire to use it wasn't i turned the corner you know maybe it was a year two three years uh and i just thought my life is you know i'm blessed you know i've met a i've met uh great people in my life i was blessed with children i was able to be the son that my parents wanted me to be um my my sister who i tormented uh during my drug use days you know came back into my life in a uh much more um for me anyway a much more positive relationship um i just yeah i guess i found the depths of my relationships the quality of them were so much better um you know and and uh you know meeting people like yourself uh you know it's helping people who are struggling and then watching them turn the corner where they lose that desire um so for me i guess you know just i i have you know a gorski model of recovery was great um uh relapse prevention planning you know these are the 32 signs of relapse and when i first read them i thought man i got like 30 of these signs of relapse you know uh what's going on uh but i think it came down to a different viewpoint which was more of a craving intervention plan living a more balanced lifestyle getting out a little bit more having some fun balancing it with work uh i came up with a philosophy uh for my life which was number one help others number two uh have fun and number three gain a reward and when those three are in balance you know there's a certain amount of focus on helping others if i don't help enough people um i kind of get a little selfish you know like i'm not there for others uh if i help too many people i kind of figure who's there for me right um and if i put that first you know i i'm out of self i get out of myself like i'm not you know want everything for me um i think having children help me with that yeah you know my son's gonna get the bigger steak tonight or one of my kids you know that kind of thing um the other two were um uh having fun if i don't have enough fun i'm like what's life about if i have too much fun people don't take me seriously uh and gaining a reward and realizing that rewards aren't always monetary rewards come and so you know watching you grow um having a mother say to me thank you for giving me my son back um you know having my parents tell me how proud they are of me yeah you know but i think it's balance and in the right order for me you know but helping others i think is always i think watching somebody you know climb the mountain is you know knowing that you had a hand in it is is a beautiful uh you know testimony to your life yeah totally yeah i think and one of
Speaker 1the great things that you do jay is um you know people relapse all the time right it's a huge part of or it doesn't have to be but it's a part of recovery it can be a part of recovery and one of the great things that i admire about you is you give them a chance you give them another chance right and i've seen you do it time and time again and because you don't know when that person's going to figure it out right it might not be their time but i've seen you do it so many times and uh yeah like that's that's kind of the key here is you don't turn your back on them just because they inconvenienced you or they made a mistake because we were there at one point yeah right um what do you think the number one reason people go out is people relapse people
Speaker 2fail in recovery like what do you think i think it's multifaceted you know people aren't having a good time they're not enjoying themselves they haven't found meaning and purpose in their life they haven't found a community that they're a part of um there might be mental health issues you know depression anxiety uh possibly uh thought disorders uh could be finances you know financial obligations that they can't meet and the stressors uh are overwhelmed overwhelming for them they just want to get a little bit of relief every time i relapsed on cigarettes i just want to drag you know i just want to drag and i have to say to myself well you don't smoke cigarettes so why do you want to drag and i say what's the drive or what's the feeling under that drag because i know i'll have a drag and i'll be buying a carton within a week same and it'll be four or five years before i get another opportunity to quit when i get that motivation and the stars align so i think if we can ask ourselves you know what's driving this bus today why do i want to use right we can probably come up with probably about 70 of the answer yeah you know like we say in recovery i'm hungry angry lonely tired bored yeah you know if i can figure out okay i'm hungry go eat something i'm tired go sleep yeah i'm bored go do something right and just get through it right
Speaker 1get through it till tomorrow yeah i love that um what do you think so family is a big part of addiction you know family is a big part of addiction what do you think the difference between kind of and i get this question a lot from from family what's the difference between enabling and supporting an addict you know where's that
Speaker 2line yeah that's a great point because addiction you know just the very nature of of somebody who's stuck in dependency issues every cell in their body is geared towards getting what they want at all cost and for a family member 10 percent of their you know uh you know psyche is geared towards you know catching somebody 90 is geared towards supporting somebody you know we want our kids to be you know wonderful we want them to be happy we want them to be successful we want our our partners our associates at work um our playmates you know we we we want success that's the you know the the hallmark of of uh life i think is to be successful whatever that that means so i think you know the difference is that you know enabling is giving somebody the opportunities to continue that lifestyle against our better nature against our thoughts that this is wrong i like that right uh where support looks more like if you take a step forward i'm gonna take a step forward with you you know i can't be there pushing you forward i can't be there pulling you forward but when you make that decision that you want to make a life change and that's an alignment with my morals and values right uh i can support that i'm gonna be there with
Speaker 1you yeah yeah yeah i love that wow i've never heard anyone say it like that that's nice yeah because i think a lot of people struggle with that right sure um i do yeah you know what's
Speaker 2enabling in the recovery house how many chances do you give somebody before you say well you know the recovery house isn't helping you know they're just you know eroding you know um they're happy and you know refer them somewhere else it gets a different kind of help for them uh look at the opportunities that are out there the resources and and you know figure it out and i think that's that's one of the things that some um uh you know it's always be reinventing ourselves you know at the recovery place or treatment centers what can we introduce that's new different exciting move them forward right yeah there's always new advances in addiction i think yeah so the addict
Speaker 1alcoholic uh person struggling with mental health right now you know that comes into your house shaking or even you see them on the street on the street what do you say to that person
Speaker 2usually interesting i never ask somebody if they're using if i see somebody who i knew in the past and i'm like oh i'm not sure how you're doing how you're making out these days you know and if you know they they don't hear judgment and opinion in your voice they might tell you you know and then you can open it up to uh wow it sounds tough or you know uh anything i can help you with you know is there something that i can support you around uh because i think for me you know that judgment you know i was judging myself i was so ashamed of where i'd gotten myself that it was so hard to ask for help because that emitting defeat and then not knowing if the help is going to be there are they going to ridicule you are they going to you know look down on you um so i think i try to you know treat people with kindness and respect sometimes i lose it you know um and that's also part of my humorous side i love it uh you know i have a dark sense of humor that comes out at times you know somebody tells you something you just gotta shake your head are you actually telling me this you know you sat on a bag of cocaine on the ttc really and that's why you're positive for goat like really that's what you're saying to me if if it's important for you for me to believe it i'll believe it although you're shaking your head and your brow is furrowed yeah you know um but i think giving people opportunity until you burn out you know and you gotta admit you know at some point you're you know we're gonna get burnt out you know and uh we've tried to help somebody so often that maybe it has become enabling and we don't see it that's why i love the staff in my house they say jay what are you doing you know like this guy doesn't need us you know he wants to he's got his own adventures to live that don't call for sobriety so you gotta let it go yeah and i do you know yeah but it's tough but it's you got a heart for people yeah totally
Speaker 1And it's listening to those people sometimes where you're like, yeah, you're seeing it from a different perspective.
Speaker 2perspective right Dave S has said that many times to me you know yeah gotta let go yeah I love it
Speaker 1okay well thanks Jay I you know what I had a great time I love you so much buddy thanks for coming down I look forward to uh our many more you know hopefully you can have you on again with Caleb and yeah that'd be fun yeah yeah I really appreciate it but I got a lot out of this yeah thanks Anthony
Speaker 3yeah thanks for having me down thanks for listening please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone you
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