Speaker 1Hello, hello, and welcome to the James Kennedy podcast. Thanks for joining us. I hope you've all had a good week. How are you doing? Today, I'm going to be speaking with Stella Assange, wife and lawyer to Julian Assange, and we'll be getting the lowdown on where things are at right now with Julian's battle against extradition to the US and his current state of health, as he still languishes in Belmarsh Prison, a high-security hellhole populated by terrorists, rapists, and serial killers, all for the crime of being a journalist and a damn fine one at that. That's right. In Britain, 2023, we are now imprisoning journalists. That's what we're doing now. If anyone needs a reminder before we get into the conversation, back in 2010, Julian Assange and WikiLeaks published, among other things, the collateral murder videos, which showed footage of US soldiers firing on and killing unarmed civilians in Iraq. This was journalism as it's meant to be. Brave, uncompromising, and giving the public the truth about what our governments are doing in our name. And for that crime. Julian has spent the last 10 years of his life in either house arrest, living inside the Ecuadorian embassy where he lived for 7 years without being able to leave, to now, living as a class A criminal in Belmarsh fucking prison, with the constant threat of being extradited to the US, whereupon he had been imprisoned for a further 175 years. What the fuck is going on? A journalist. If we're going to maintain any pretense that we live in a democracy and have a press that is free to report on our government, we're going to have to be very careful. We're going to have to be very its actions, then Julian Assange needs to be set free and set free right now. So long as this continues, truth, democracy and freedom of the press is a lie. And as far as I'm concerned, Julian Assange is a hero and all of us have a duty to see him walk a free man. I'm not going to be asking Stella anything to do with the backstory to Julian's situation. She's answered those questions a million times already. But we will be getting the lowdown on where things are at right now, the road ahead and what all of us can do to help. But before we welcome Stella, I'd like to remind you all to subscribe to the podcast. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, there are some amazing guests lined up and it would really help me to keep this thing going. So click that button and help brother out. But now we are absolutely privileged to be joined today by Stella Assange. Stella has been fighting this battle now for so many years and her relentless energy, strength and resilience is really something to behold. Stella, it's an absolute honor to speak with you today. Thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 2Thanks, James. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1No, it's a privilege, honestly. I mean, before we get started, I just want to check in and ask, how are you doing? Because I just can't imagine the toll that this is taking on you and the family personally. So, you know, before we get started, you know, how are you holding up?
Speaker 2I'm okay. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm, a day like today is quite, quite a busy one. And I do feel sometimes like I need to take a break. But really, it's nothing compared to what Julian's going through. So I just want to get him out.
Speaker 1Yeah, 100%. I totally understand. And how is Julian doing? I mean, what's the latest on his, his condition? What mentally, emotionally, physically, you know, what, what is his current state like? And what condition is he currently
Speaker 2living in? Well, he's been in Belmarsh High Security for about a year now. And he's been in Belmarsh High Security prison for almost four years, it will be four years in April. And, you know, four years is a long time. And four years, we've had periods that have been very dark, where he was in, in the health wing of the prison, because of the suicide risk. Right. And then during lockdown, I spent six months where I couldn't see him in person. And in fact, he couldn't see anyone at all, apart from fellow prisoners and, and the prison guards. He couldn't see me or the children or his lawyers or anyone. And then there are periods like the Christmas period, where it's quite an isolating period for, for Julian, because, because the prison is closed during three days, because it's short of staff, which means there's less time out of cell, and this kind of thing. So it's, it's generally quite a difficult period around the Christmas holidays. And obviously, being locked up in a prison cell, he's, he's deteriorating over time that being imprisoned will, will kill you ultimately, and it shortens your life. So, you know, he needs, he needs to be free.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you. I mean, there's, there's nothing anyone can say to make this any better. He just needs to be free now. I mean, my heart breaks for you guys. I mean, for someone like myself, and I'm guessing most people listening, you know, Julian is a hero, you know, but he's also a husband and a father as well. So I can't, I can't even begin to imagine the toll this has taken upon you personally over all these years. As I mentioned at the start, I'm not going to be asking you anything to do with the backstory to Julian's situation, because you know, you've been through that so many times, I'd prefer to focus and I think it'd be more relevant to focus instead on where we are as of today. What's the latest status with Julian's case? And what's the current state of play?
Speaker 2Well, on the legal front, it's basically the UK government has approved the extradition, order. It was Priti Patel who actually signed the extradition approval. And the way the system works here in the UK is the, you can appeal the decision of the Home Secretary to, to agree with the order, and you can separately appeal the ruling. So actually, Julian is now currently against the Home Secretary and against the lower court ruling, which has allowed the extradition. And the High Court is currently considering the application. So what Julian has done is seek leave to appeal. There is no automatic right to appeal. And the High Court can refuse to hear an appeal. And if it refuses, then then basically, that's the end of the road, end of the road for Julian, right. But if it's agrees to hear an appeal, then it can pick and choose the grounds of the appeal. So we're now waiting to hear whether there will be an appeal. And if there is an appeal on what grounds, and this leaves Julian in a complete state of, of uncertainty, right? Yeah, I mean, he could be in a position of being extradited within 10 days, or, you know, be on a months and months, looking at months and months of appeals ahead with the High Court and potentially the Supreme Court and so on. So it's, it's, it's really quite difficult to explain how, how, how disorienting it is to have this constant uncertainty hanging over your head. Yeah. He's, his imprisonment is really truly indefinite. And it could end tomorrow, or it could, it would, it could continue for, for the rest of our lives. So that's the constant pressure and the um plan anything other than to fight so essentially we're
Speaker 1still just as much in the dark as ever you know i mean this has been this this battle has been going on there for like over 10 years already
Speaker 2right well since since the publications which were in uh 2010 um the first publication was april 2010 uh and the the last publication was march 2011 so that's that's what it concerns and julian hasn't been a free man since the 7th of december 2010 and the excuses for his um his deprivation of liberty have been a different over time but they've been uh increasingly um restrictive over time so it started off uh that he was under house arrest and it was very restrictive house arrest and then he was in the embassy and then even when the un said that the uk should let him walk free that was ignored um and then he was arrested and put in belmarsh prison and then if he's extradited he will be placed in extreme isolation and solitary confinement so it's just to understand julian's case you really need to look at the the the treatment rather than the uh formal description of the of the status right so julian for example julian is on remand um and that sounds quite innocuous um he's a prisoner on remand he's in in remand in custody uh in reality what that means is that he's in the highest security prison in the united kingdom and he is treated exactly the same as uh convicted murderers yeah because in that prison uh and it is it is kind of the way efficiency works in prisons when you're managing 800 prisoners and you have people there who are there for grave crimes and then other people who are there um on remand unconvicted um you know who might be released uh or found innocent or whatever it's just easier if you treat everyone like the convicted murderer right because it's if you start treating people differently then that takes a too much of a toll on the on the prison system and the prison system is under resourced of course yeah and so they just treat everyone like um they are uh a convicted um you know violent yeah um criminal oh man so what
Speaker 1do you think what is the agenda at this point then you know i mean we're three administrations away from when this started so what's the interest here you know for for the um for the u.s administration as well as others i mean is it simply a matter of making an example of julian and sending a message to other aspiring you know potential julian assanges and wikileaks or is it now a matter of um saving face because this has been going on a long time it is such a high profile case is it a matter of if the u.s admits defeat now then that is obviously you know potentially embarrassing for them and also it could potentially open up the floodgates to a whole host of claims of massive foul play on behalf of a whole cross-section of the political and legal machinery is it that or is there something else happening well it's
Speaker 2several things right i mean to understand how we've got here you need to need to kind of take apart the the administration into uh its components right inside the department of justice for example um you have career prosecutors who are just kind of advancing their career this is a high profile case right um and and they're under the trump administration there was a decision to charge julian um the obama administration decided not to uh to prosecute julian over the manning leaks the trump administration uh decided to do so and then so within the doj the department of justice you have these career prosecutors who are happy to take on a big case and make a name for themselves and then eventually you know start their own um law firm or whatever and and um have this on their cv so the doj has its own dynamic really this is a a case that is um determined by um bigger political um dynamics so there's definitely a component here which is driven by the intelligence agency agencies um which is to uh discourage um on the one hand whistleblowers from from going to journalists and on the other journalists from publishing so basically the case against julian treats uh sources and and the the publisher the vehicle through which the source uh reaches uh the public um as the same and historically there has always been a separation whereby the publisher the press is protected um as long as they're not uh publishing false information as long as the information is of relevance and importance um then they are protected regardless of whether that information was obtained um illegally by the source so there's kind of a a layer of protection that's what we call press freedom now when you treat the source and the and the um publisher or the reporter as conspirators as um companions in the crime then uh then you you do away entirely with with that layer of protection and it doesn't exist and so there is no press freedom and what they're doing with julian is they're saying okay there is no layer of protection and we're doing this for the first time with assange we're going after him as equally culpable as this source and therefore um we can use this as a as a precedent against the rest of the press right um so it is definitely being used as a a means to chill um the press as a means to chill newsrooms and that's the explanation for why you have publications like the washington post or the new york times um long you know long very established uh newspapers who understand how they are affected by this case the case uh grants the executive the discretion to be able to uh choose to go after the press when it is in their when they decide to do so when is politically expedient to do so and what that means is that it's uh there is there is a new uh standard whereby uh the executive basically assumes the role of of editor-in-chief of the entire press right and decides what can be published um and what under under penalty of of prison and of course the effect of this on the press is uh no journalist you know except um you know you know no one is going to engage in journalism if they might end up in prison yeah like journalists it's the job is hard on it you know in and of itself but if you're going to lose your livelihood and your freedom over you know trying to to report the truth and expose corruption and illegality then uh you might decide to do not to do that because you know you have a family or or you have a mortgage or or you like your freedom um or you can't fight a case like you know julian is a high-profile journalist he's a high-profile publisher he's a high-profile journalist and he's uh he's he has a campaign and he has a lot of people um backing him and um if you're just a regular reporter trying to you know do your job and you don't have the kind of um profile that julian does then you have you stand no chance at all so the fact the fact is that this case is is serves as a means uh through which um you know that the government can keep uh concealing it's um it's it's uh it's crimes it's cover-ups um it's corruption scandals and so on um and it chills the press that's for sure uh and then i mean there there are also forces within the administration that are totally opposed to this i mean this is this is an extremely controversial case it has always been a controversial case that's why obama um commuted chelsea manning's sentence and decided not to prosecute julian um even though there was a lot of harassment it was extra legal harassment banking blockades paypal etc um but there were no charges and um and it was controversial under the trump administration and it is controversial under the biden administration as well um so that's why you know that it's not like this is a it's not like the us government is a monolith on this case there's there's a lot of um controversy uh and for example the new york times and and the guardian and uh der spiegel le monde in alpais put out a joint statement um signed by um by the publishers um saying that this case is is has to be dropped and that it's an attack on press freedom and that's you know that's not that's not a a minor thing that's a that's a big deal uh so there are different forces at play that's what i'm trying to say um and and and and trying to say um and there are strong forces that are trying to keep julian in prison um and that have been you know trying to affect his public image and his reputation and so on. And there are also forces that are against. And so it's kind of like an ongoing battle.
Speaker 1Yeah, I suppose that explains why there is such a collusion between so many different nation states to actually conspire and work together on keeping Julian behind bars, because it sends a message out to their press. Don't challenge us or this is what will happen to you. But where does the Australian government stand on this now, as of today? Because, I mean, Julian is an Australian citizen. I mean, you know, what's their current position on this?
Speaker 2Well, for years and years, they did nothing. And they, in fact, basically facilitated his persecution. In 2010, I think it was, or early 2011, the then Australian Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, publicly said that Australia was going to cancel his passport just in the middle of these publications, simply because maybe it would facilitate the US stopping Julian in his tracks. And then, apparently, I think this was through diplomatic cables, it came out that the US said, no, don't cancel it, because it's useful for us to know where he is. Right. And, I mean, that's, I mean, I know the UK has done, has done that with, in cases of accused terrorists. But that's just a sign of how far things have gone over the past 12 years. They didn't cancel his passport, but they also made Australia, around the same time, the same Prime Minister said that Julian had broken the law. And then you had the Australian Federal Police investigate and said, actually, he hasn't broken any Australian law. Yeah. So, there was, you know, a complete lockstep between the Australian government and the US government for many, many years. And, in fact, the previous Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, was very close, it turns out, to Mike Pompeo, who was CIA Director and then Secretary of State. Right. And while he was CIA Director, he had ordered plans to assassinate Julian. And so, this person, the Australian Prime Minister, was having, I think, weekly phone calls with Mike Pompeo. The Australian High Commissioner here in London used to be the head of the Australian equivalent of the CIA or one of the intelligence agencies. And would show off his CIA cufflinks. Like, he would go to the Australian Parliament wearing CIA cufflinks. And there's even a picture of him sitting at his desk while he was High Commissioner here in London, wearing his CIA cufflinks, you know, in, like, an approved official photo. So, that guy, you know, while the CIA was plotting to assassinate Julian. So, of course, Julian has, for many years, received no support from the Australian government, in reality. And, in fact, for a while, you know, anyway, so, the change has come with the new administration. So, there's a new Prime Minister as of last year. Anthony Albanese. And while he was running from opposition, he was saying that enough is enough, that Julian should be released, that he doesn't understand what could possibly be served by keeping Julian in prison, etc. And these were, you know, very significant statements that were, in fact, in consonance with the mood in Australia. Because polls show that in Australia over 70% of the population want Julian freed and back home. You know, overwhelmingly the Australian population is aware and absolutely onside. And so, this is reflected in the politicians who are elected in Australia. Many of the new parliamentarians ran on a free Assange ticket among one of their campaigning priorities. And so, Albanese, once he became Prime Minister, he has kept his position, which is, you know, very, very positive. Both he and the Attorney General have made clear that this is the position of the administration, that Julian should be freed. Initially, they said that the Prime Minister said that he was not going to conduct diplomacy through a loud hailer and that his position hadn't changed. But since late November, the Prime Minister has actually been more outspoken and said explicitly that he has brought Julian's case up with the US. Sorry. I'm not sure if you can
Speaker 1see it, but I think we're going to be able to see it in the next few minutes or so. Okay, and we're back. Well, there's a little bit of hope to be gleaned from the stance of the current Australian administration then, I think. And what other allies are there in this power play? Because, you know, you've mentioned some of the very powerful interests working against Julian's interests at this point. But where are the allies that also have some form of significant political influence or power?
Speaker 2I think there are allies within all of the administration. I mean, I can't imagine that in the United Kingdom, the government, the current government is invested in this case. I mean, obviously, there are, you know, there are factions. Again, the intelligence kind of community, which is very influential, of course, wants to silence Julian because they don't want leaks. They don't want the press to scrutinize. They don't want the press to scrutinize what they're doing. You know, these are governments who have engaged in, you know, rendition and obtaining evidence from torture and complicity in torture and so on. Like, they don't want more exposure, right? Right. But then for other parts of the government, this is a huge embarrassment. Like, the Foreign Office constantly has to hear about. The Assange case, you know, and they have to hear it from countries that they are, you know, trying to influence about press freedom and human rights and so on. And that's very counterproductive. The British justice system has lost a lot of credibility by entertaining this extradition case. So within the justice system. I've heard, you know, people I've spoken to saying, oh, I know this judge. And they sit in, you know, judges who are saying this is a problem, this case, because it's detrimental to the, you know, the public's faith in the fairness of the British justice system. So there are factions within. There are definitely factions and. But, okay, there are a lot of. There's a lot of support from, for example, Latin American governments. I mean, the Colombian president, the president of Brazil, Lula, president of Mexico, Peru, you know, these are governments that have recently come out calling for Julian's release and saying that they will raise the case. And this is actually after the editor-in-chief of WikiLeaks, Kristen Prafson, and Joseph Farrell of WikiLeaks have been going to Latin American countries and, oh, sorry, and also Argentina, and, you know, to meet with presidents and they are received by presidents. You know, this is a high profile. It's a politically important issue for Latin American countries. And I think Latin America as, in general, is the region that has most engaged with the WikiLeaks publications and with the persecution of Julian and, you know, raised the case repeatedly throughout the years. Um, and then, you know, actually. in Europe there is a lot of awareness because the case of course concerns European interests. There were several European publications involved in these very, in the Manning leaks, publishing alongside Julian and Wikileaks who could be prosecuted on exactly the same grounds. And so basically the case against Julian is a way of infringing the rights of journalists in Europe of puncturing the European jurisdiction and applying foreign laws within the European space. And so Julian was actually shortlisted as a finalist of the Sakharov Prize. The Sakharov Prize of course is the European Union's peak freedom of thought human rights prize. And that's hugely significant, you know. It's the European Parliament who decides who is nominated, who is shortlisted and the European Parliament ultimately represents the totality of the European Union's citizenship. And so for the European Parliament to consider Julian one of the peak three one of the three most important cases of human rights in the European Union for the year that's hugely significant. That means that the European Union thinks this case is of enormous significance and concerns European values and so on.
Speaker 1Great, yeah. So there is some quite powerful support there then around the world. And as you've mentioned there are factions, of support within the establishment as well. I mean, do you derive some hope from that?
Speaker 2Well, it's clear that political support is building. Public awareness is building. And then you have things like there are a couple of books out that really kind of forensically deconstruct the persecution of Julian over the years. So one of them is a book by Niels Meltzer, who was the UN Special Rapporteur for Torture. And he investigated Julian's case. And he's very interesting because well, first of all, he's like a world authority on torture and he's an international law expert and so on, you know. He is exactly the type of profile of person who can really look at this situation, look at the case and analyze it. And while he was UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, he received an application from Julian's lawyers asking him to look into the case. And he had been affected by all this propaganda about Julian. And he basically just initially didn't even read the file. And then he received a second request from Julian's lawyers. And then he thought, well, I really should look at this and do my due diligence. Not with a view to opening an investigation, but because that's his role. And then as soon as he started looking into it, he realized not only how obvious the persecution was, but also how he himself had been propagandized, basically. That all these assumptions that he had were false. And that all he had to do was scratch the surface. And this enormous miscarriage of justice, the most significant miscarriage of justice of our times in the West, and he puts it very strongly in his book, was obvious to see. And all you had to do was scratch the surface. But even he was initially averse to doing so. And so he's very interesting as someone who is in the human rights community, who has exactly the skills and the knowledge to be able to see the case for what it was, but initially was biased against Julian because of this concerted propaganda effort there had been against Julian. To mischaracterize the case and his treatment and so on. So anyway, that book I highly recommend. It's called The Trials of Julian Assange by Niels Meltzer. And then the second book just came out in English, and it's by an Italian investigative journalist called Stefania Maurizzi. And she this book is really well documented because it is based on official documents. So since 2015, and still to this day, Stefania has been filing freedom of information requests to the relevant governments and even litigating. So she's in litigation with the UK government, with the Swedish government, the US government, and the Australian government, trying to get more information. But what she's been able to uncover has been extraordinary. And so she documents what she's what she's been able to obtain from these official sources. And it's very interesting, for example, that the Crown Prosecution Service here in the UK destroyed thousands of emails between them and the Swedish authorities. And this was discovered because because she was doing filing these requests in both countries, documents were appearing from the UK side that the UK hadn't disclosed. And they said, oh, well, actually, they were destroyed. And there were thousands of emails. And then the documents also revealed that there was a there was a similar effort on the Swedish end that documents have been destroyed, like an FBI request that came in. They said they destroyed because it had nothing to do with the Swedish investigation. So why would they keep it? And so on. So anyway, it's very, very, very interesting and forensic and, you know, hard documentation. And that one's Stefania Maurizzi, The Secret Power. And then there's a subtitle to the book. But that's a few, that's been in English, released a month ago or so. And that book has won I think, three major investigative journalism awards in Italy.
Speaker 1Wow. That's amazing. It's amazing. Well, yeah, I'll give a shout out to both those books at the end of the episode, and I'll link them into the description as well, so that anybody who wants to delve further into the backstory of Julian's case, you know, they sound like they should definitely check those books out. I'm keeping an eye on the clock now, because I know that you've got to go soon. And before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you, you know, what is the road ahead now? What is the game plan for you guys? From where we're at now? And if the worst should happen, and Julian does get extradited to the US, what avenues are open to be pursued at that point?
Speaker 2Well, we have to use every avenue we can, and we will fight as hard as we possibly can. But what's clear is that this case is a political case. And, you know, when I get this question about where are we legally and so on, sometimes I just say, actually, that's completely irrelevant and it's actually a distraction. It's a distraction to expect that the outcome will come from the courts. And the, you know, basically Julian's freedom depends on whether civil society and the cultural community and the artistic community and the grassroots and the media and everyone can get their act together and call for him to be freed. It's an enormous this is an enormous attack on all our rights, on the public's right to know the truth, on the press rights, the rights of the press to publish it, and on us as a society to be able to hold governments accountable. And we're facing a new paradigm whereby we lose all those rights. And that's Julian's case is part of a broader process that has taken place over the past 10, 15 years in which we have actually 20 years, in which our rights have been eroded and um and the democratic element of the society has been weakened enormously on the one hand you have the state that is the surveillance state that has grown ever more powerful um and more secretive and the balance between um the state and and its citizenry has has shifted enormously um and basically as citizens we are much weaker um our our ability to have oversight over the decisions that are taken by the government through the relationship between government and and um corporations and social media companies that have basically um uh occupied our our private lives um by by um basically middlemanning our communications yeah um we just we we've just lost control and at the same time this attack on the press um whereby uh news gathering can be a crime even if it is exposing crime it can itself uh be described as a crime so that people will no longer do that anymore yeah because the cost is too high right so it is a little bit um the need to understand what julian's case signifies more broadly right and how how dangerous it is not not dangerous just because like it's dangerous now 100 it's not dangerous if he's extradited and convicted in the us under the espionage act no he's been charged under the espionage act the damage is being done right now um the chilling effect is right now the the our right to know the truth as a citizenry is being um curtailed right now because the press is not doing its job because they're too afraid that's why they're putting out these editorials it's not in case julian is convicted in you know in the united states it is they're not even going to risk it they're not even going to wait so julian's um julian's freedom is coupled to our freedoms um and that's why the mobilization needs to happen now and not depend on some external forces or yeah you know um whether i don't know who comes into government or all these things 100 it's it's it's uh it requires people to like demand um i think demand that julian's case is talked about a lot more you know on every level um the problem you know the problem is that julian's case has been treated like it's taboo for a long time yeah and uh you have all these very uh mainstream organizations who have come out saying this is a grave threat to press freedom his life is in danger he is being politically persecuted he is politically uh the case is politically motivated um it is it is a dangerous uh anti-democratic authoritarian move okay so you have like amnesty international and the committee to protect journalists the new york times and the guardians so on are on the same page okay so why is the case not talked more about and i think it's because this this taboo aspect needs to be overcome and that needs to be overcome by people breaking the silence yeah and talking to each other about it telling each other about it reading the books giving other people books like signing up to the uh don't extradite assange newsletter coming to our protests we're doing a protest in london um a night car carnival followed by a um by a uh a public meeting that i'm going to speak at on the 11th of february which is a saturday and i encourage everyone to come to that and just be really engaged and on top of it and like julian's you know julian's a he's a hero for what he's done but he's also a human being and he deserves to be treated like a human being and he has been treated inhumanely um and how how can anyone possibly defend having a publisher in a high security prison for four years and counting well not four years and counting yet but soon madness uh he's not convicted of anything he is being treated as if he were a criminal where all he's done is exposed state crimes and and war crimes and embarrassed governments and they've they've look the way i explain it to to my children is that their father is not in prison because he did something wrong but because he did something right and that the people he embarrassed the bad people hold the keys to his prison cell right and that we're fighting a lot of people around the world are fighting to get him free they're fighting the bad people to get julian free and uh i think it's quite a useful exercise sometimes to think how would i explain this to a four-year-old because you know in some ways the public um is confused by complexity um and but they understand the essentials and i think when they see when they just observe okay so the julian assange yeah the us wants him he's not convicted in the uk but he's been in a uk prison for almost four years okay and the worst prison in the uk okay that's strange well that doesn't make any sense but i think that's a very interesting point because i think that's a very interesting point because i think that's a very interesting point and i think that's a very interesting point because i think that's a very interesting point because it's a very interesting point because i think that's a very interesting point because it's a very interesting point um and that just needs to be because it's a very interesting point um and that just needs to be um um um talked about all the time how can how can talked about all the time how can how can talked about all the time how can how can anyone possibly agree with that
Speaker 1anyone possibly agree with that anyone possibly agree with that now we're living in a time when we need now we're living in a time when we need now we're living in a time when we need the likes of julian assange now more than the likes of julian assange now more than the likes of julian assange now more than ever ever ever and it's time now for julian to walk free and it's time now for julian to walk free and it's time now for julian to walk free um you've already answered my my last um you've already answered my my last um you've already answered my my last question which is what can people do to question which is what can people do to question which is what can people do to help so you've mentioned the website help so you've mentioned the website help so you've mentioned the website there which i'll link into the there which i'll link into the there which i'll link into the description whatever platform you're description whatever platform you're description whatever platform you're listening to this on you'll be able to listening to this on you'll be able to listening to this on you'll be able to get the the direct link but the the url get the the direct link but the the url get the the direct link but the the url is don't extradite assange dot com There's a ton of resources and things you can get involved in on there. There's fundraisers as well that you can contribute to the legal costs. There's details about upcoming actions and resources and things you can print and all sorts of cool things. The website is essentially a hub for everything that you can do to start getting involved in this. Put in your diary as well. If you can get to London on the 11th of Feb, the 11th of Feb, put that in your diary because, as Stella mentioned, there will be a big event that she'll be speaking at there as well. And if you want to follow Stella's Twitter page personally, and I recommend that you do to stay updated on things, it is at Stella underscore Assange. Stella, I'm going to let you get away now a little bit ahead of time because I know how busy you are and I really can't thank you enough for stopping by and speaking with me today. Thank you for everything you've done over the past God knows how many years now for shouldering this cause. I respect and admire your relentless energy and fight and resilience and strength. I wish you nothing but the best and hopefully if we speak again. It will be to celebrate Julian Assange finally being free. Stella, thank you so much.
Speaker 2Thank you so much. My pleasure. Take care.
Speaker 1Thank you, Stella. Take care. Bye-bye. Thanks. Bye. Oh, man. What a story that is. You know what I mean? Jesus Christ. What age are we living in, man? You know, it's mad to me. It just blows my mind. The thing is you become desensitized to it, especially when you're not in the direct orbit of the person that's directly involved. Like Stella is with Julian. Because, you know, we've all been following this case. And I remember, you know, when Julian was under house arrest and I used to watch the live streams of stuff that he did from there, the interviews. And he was still very much active as he was throughout his time at the Ecuadorian embassy. I mean, this has been going on so long now. You kind of, it does become a kind of just normal. But, you know, enough is enough now. And as Stella said, you know, this is a precedent. This isn't just literally about one man. This is about what this means for. Freedom of the press, journalism, truth, democracy, everything, the whole thing. This, this really is a litmus test now for what kind of world we live in and what kind of world are we moving into? It doesn't matter whether you agree with. Julian's politics or whether you have doubts about whether he should or should not have done some of the things he's done with WikiLeaks. But if you care about democracy and you care about freedom of speech and freedom of the press and the sanctity of journalism, then you need to support freeing Julian Assange and not extraditing Julian Assange to the US. He hasn't been convicted with anything. Why is he in jail? Why is he in Belmarsh prison? This is madness. So do go and check out Don'tExtraditeAssange.com. There is tons of information on there and things you can get involved with. Do put 11th of Feb in your diary. If you're in the UK and you're local to London, you can get there for the Saturday, then please do come along. And the two books I'm going to give a shout out to that Stella mentioned there is The Trial of Julian Assange by Nils Melzer and Secret Power by Stefania Morizzi. If you really want to delve into this crazy, crazy backstory and just see how corrupt and corrupt it is, then you should go and check out Don'tExtraditeAssange.com. This whole thing has been from the start. I recommend, and Stella does, checking out those books. But one of the points that Stella made that resonated with me the strongest was when she said this isn't necessarily a legal battle. This is a political battle and more importantly, a cultural battle. This is about the narrative. This is a war of narrative. And in that war, all of us can play a part. So as Stella said, talk about this, amplify this, get involved. We need a resurgence of activity on this issue. If you're an influencer, use your platform to shout about this or just tell your friends and family about it and get them involved. Get involved in the website and if you can spare some pennies, I know we're all struggling at the moment, but if you can spare some contributions to the donations page and help to contribute towards the legal costs, that would be massive. And just help to normalize and amplify this issue. As always, write to your MP, find out where they're at on this issue and pressure them and let them know how you feel about it. And let's raise the heat on this again because Julian is a hero. And if a precedent needs to be set, it needs to be a precedent that heroes who do brave, courageous work that is in all of our interests need to be celebrated, not imprisoned. So get involved, man. Let's do this. Thanks again for listening. I really hope you enjoyed the conversation. I know I did. And do subscribe to the podcast. I know I say this every week, but people constantly tell me they missed episodes. So just, just click the button, man. It's not difficult to do. Subscribe to the podcast. There's awesome guests coming up every week. Got some bangers coming up from next week as well. And give me a rating. Leave your comments. If you listen to this on YouTube, I know some people do choose to listen to it there. If you listen to it on YouTube, leave a comment and let's get a conversation going and share some ideas and things like that. But if you listen to it on the other platforms like Apple or Spotify or whatever else, then leave me a rating, give me a thumbs up, give me a follow, whatever you got to do, you know, and then, you know, keep a little Welsh boy happy. Thanks again to Stella for coming on and giving us her time. And I will see you next week with another episode. In the meantime, free Julian Assange.
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