#36 - Quay Xue Han (TKD fighter, students, cancer survivor) "Kicking Stage 4 Cancer In The Balls"

So here we go man, we're live. So today I have Cherhan with me. Probably probably one of the most random. Okay, you don't know about this now. I purposely saved it until we rolled. But I think you're the first person who I did not know who I was like, "Hey, I have a podcast." Oh, really? Yeah, because they all shared with it, like I told you. It's only kind of something that I tell my friends about and people that I'm close to and people who are like, "Hey, are you still putting out any material or content out there?" Then I'll say, "Yes, I have a podcast, so I chat with my friends." So you're the first person who I was like, "Oh, okay. If this guy who I met is interested in content that I'm doing, then I'll do it." And then, so let me set the scenario first. Sorry, I'll hog the conversation before you start. So I was at the gym on like, it was freaking late at night as well. It was 1am. It was like 1am, right? So it was late. And that's kind of, that's one of the times that I go to gym if not, it's early in the morning, but I happen to be like lifting at like 1am-ish and Cherhan and a friend were there. So they just said, "Hey, are you Eden?" And then he was like, "Hey, I miss the stuff that you used to put out," which I was like, "Oh, I appreciate that kind of stuff." And one very interesting thing was that you asked me, "How are you?" And that kind of took me by surprise because it's very rare that I meet people who have watched my stuff or whatever material that I've made and have gone, "How are you?" Yeah, it's usually like, "Oh, what do you do for a living?" Or like, "How do you get followers?" Or, "How do you do this?" It's always like, "How do? How do?" But not really like, "Hey, how are you?" So I thought that was very different. And then I told you that, "Hey, look where I got a podcast going." I talked to some friends and people who live interesting lives and whatnot. And I just want to make a podcast for the male community to kind of encourage people. And then, out of nowhere, you just were like, "I have cancer." And I was like, "Wait, what?" "Oh, yeah." And then, so Sharon goes, "I am a cancer survivor." And I go, "You're a what?" And then he began to like explain. And I said, "Okay, cool. This sounds good." But I probably want to hear this on the podcast, actually. So I invited him around. And that's how we ended up here today. Sorry for hogging the whole thing before. But yeah, so I think, first of all, we can just talk about it this way. You go to the gym with that friend to look good aesthetically. Or is it because you're training for a sport? Okay, four. In terms of going to the gym, I won't say go there because ever since I was young, I was born very, very skinny. Like, I was meldlerish, especially in primary one, primary two. My weight was barely like 35, 30-ish, which was obviously, even though I was small size, it was terrible. I would always get, I had a terrible history with bullying. Because, yeah, when I was younger, it was very difficult for me to go to school. I mean, it wasn't particularly very difficult. But more of every time I went to school, anything, the bigger boys, especially the ones from other overseas, they are one to two years older and they are massive. Compared to me, I'm then knee height, especially. To be fair, to put this in a bit of context. Right now, you're not sure. Right now, you are taller than me. I'm 170. I bet you're at least 177. Yeah, there you go. So you're not a short guy, but I guess maybe when you're maybe you had a later growth spree. I think my most growth spree was, like, secondary two. That's pretty late. That makes sense. So that the taller kids were picking me. I was insect two. I was 160, 161 was 62. And then in sex, three, I grew to 177. Wow. I don't think that much in my opinion. Because my friends, who I swear, in secondary four, they were shorter than me. Right now, they are 1.85. Oh, wow. No idea how they do it. I guess I will never know. But I know that there's girls like taller guys. So that's in your court. I'll never get to experience this one. Yeah, majority of girls do like taller guys. But I don't think I'm that tall because all my friends around me are 1.8 minimum. Really? So all my 10 friends, all of them are 1.8. So every time I'm around them, I seem so short. But when they meet me in person, I'm decent. If I'm not wrong, the average around Southeast Asia, the shortest height is Philippines. And then Singapore is actually one of the taller ones in Southeast Asia. If I'm not wrong, and if I'm not wrong, the average should be just just a bit above my height. So I'm 170. I think the average is 171-172. The average in Singapore is for males is 170-171. Over the past few years, it's increased due to our younger generation being a lot taller than previous because of better nutrition. Really? I've read a few cases, especially when it comes to feed people, especially us like more food, the baby formulas in the center, a lot more calcium in them. And the genetics, it just doesn't really add up because my parents are 160, and I'm 177. My friend's same thing, my dad's parents, his parents were 165, 164, and he's 1.8.5. That's interesting, you see, because I'm not from tall genes, like my grandmother and my grandma and granddad are extremely short. But my granddad, because he's Japanese, my granddad is Japanese, so he was there during the war. So bombs were dropping, there was no food and all that. Even his veins, if you look at it, they're very, very thin. That's interesting, how the different things that we go through actually affect the next generation. And I think I guess as Singaporeans these days, people are more well off. I mean, we're fairly well-to-do countries. We're definitely significantly better than majority of, I'd say 95% of the world in my opinion. Even the US has significantly high homeless rates, and Singapore, even though we do have homeless people, it's so low, because the government and I believe they're really trying their best to push for more affordable housing, in a sense. But a HDB is like $600,000, which is truly insane, obviously. But what you say is true, and as the nation, as we become wealthier, I think the food gets better, the quality of living gets better. And yeah, it does make sense that people will start becoming taller. I guess I missed it by 10 years, but anyway. Yeah, so when I met you, you were talking about Take One Door. So did bullying lead to Take One Door? This is quite interesting, because ever since young, I was always very hyper. So in like, I swear, I'm still diagnosed with ADHD, but I've never actually gone to a doctor for it. But I have a lot of signs and symptoms. This shows that, oh, I actually have more of an inattentive ADHD, which is a particular type. By the way, same here, brother. My parents always say I have ADHD, but please go on. My system and my mom were like, my god, you don't stay still, do you? Which is right? Yeah, then the thing is I always believe that martial arts or combat sports are really cool, because ever since young, I always want to defend myself and always want to develop a strong sense of capability in a sense. Like a strong sense of independence, that's the world looking for. Like being able to defend for myself and defend for other people, because I know how it's like to be picked on and everything. So which is why ever since young, I was, oh, I want to go to a take on those school mother, mom that I want to go to do just to boxing. However, they constantly did not let me until polytechnic, in tamasic polytechnic, but we shall the tamasic polytechnic best polytechnic role. Yeah, I was a tamasic polytechnic and I was like, oh, wow, they have Taekwondo and I'm going. The reason why my parents didn't let me is because they believed me being so hyper active, I would push myself too far and I'll probably injure myself, which in hindsight was probably a good idea. Yes, you really look at it, but I went to Taekwondo in a tamasic polytechnic and I was like, wow, the community is actually quite fun. I can finally do a martial art now. So when I went into Taekwondo very late, obviously, I was already 17, 17 to 18. When I first started Taekwondo, when all of my friends were, I already see like, you know, black belts really, they started. But this means this would mean that you started stretching later. Very late, terribly late. But were you still able to catch up flexibility? I was definitely able to catch up in terms of flexibility. Right now, I'm still far behind, obviously, but I'm much more flexible than I was initially. Because I believe, I mean, you personally do karate as well. So I understand the importance of both that they end active flexibility. Right. Oh my goodness. Okay, I hate to interrupt, but like, I mean, I can go on a tangent about this because when it comes to like the older instructors, they tend to bounce when they stretch. And that's something that I always thought was not right because, I mean, if you look at it from a medical standpoint, when we're like stretching and we're bouncing, I mean, if you're, I mean, they're different terms for it. But if you're of a high level and you're already warmed and you're at the right place, you know, and you try to increase it by a little bit by pushing, that does make sense. But when I see people stretching, just trying to like bounce while they're stretching, it makes me go like, because the defense mechanism of your body is to, is to like, clinch up and not let your muscles relax, right? You must definitely put, especially when stretching, when you stretch, you must push yourself to that limit of discomfort, but keep yourself there. It's not about bouncing. Right. It really defeats the purpose. And because your tension is not constantly there, there's no point in doing that. Exactly. Exactly. I once heard that this is the Japanese side of me speaking that when young boys want to become sumo wrestlers, they will, okay, did you know that almost all sumo wrestlers can do this full split? Oh, really? Yes. That is so interesting. Yeah, because they're like, I don't know, 200 over kilos, right? So if they fall, they will break something very easily, which is why they're so flexible so that they can fall in any angle and be safe. So what they do is in sumo school, they teach them all to like split. That's why you see the sumo like squat, their legs are like very, very square, like on the sides. Yeah, so that makes a lot of sense. But what I heard was that when they teach these younger boys, they will teach them until they are 90% to the full split. They won't let them like 100% split. They'll make them 90% split. And then when they're holding that, the older instructor will jump on them and tear their like inner, inner time area. And they said that when, once you've torn that, you don't have to stretch anymore for the rest of your life. I don't know how true that is. I've never heard of that. Okay, on the surface, it really sounds a really terrible excuse to just jump on your students. Because it doesn't make sense. If you're telling me a poll and you can recover it, sure. But the word that they use is tear, which I know all my friends, a lot of my friends who tore ECLs, tore hamstrings, they are in terrible condition. That's right. And they come out much worse than before because they were too passionate about stretching in a sense. Yeah, they were too into it. Can I ask if you are the sparring guy or the pulmsay type? I do both, I do both. Okay. But the thing is, okay, this is interesting. So, in some aspect of the technique, I mean, all martial arts, there's Kyrgyi and pulmsay. There's one. Kyrgyi. Kyrgyi is sparring. Kyrgyi is sparring. How do you spell it? K-Y-O-R-G. I need a pen and paper. Okay. I can now all look it up. Kyrgyi. K-Y-O-R-G-U-I-G-U-I. Let me see. Oh yeah, you're right. K-Y-O-R-U-G-I-G. Oh, U-G-I. Kyrgyi. Kyrgyi. Kyrgyi is sparring. Sparring. It is kata. Yes, it's the point. Yes. Okay. And so, you did both. I did both. Yes. The thing is, unfortunately, in the martial arts technique, we have these games called polite games. Ah, yes. Same with karate. Same with karate. So, what we do is we train, in the martial arts technique, we train both extensively, of course. But because for me, I was already had a strong Pumse background. Because ever since, I was entered right. The basics of every student is to learn the patterns before even in combat. But, yeah, this is things. But I think that my coach realized that my incomes of pattern, I had a lot of strength in my blocking. And my stances. So, they kept me in Pumse for a long period of time. Even though I was so interested in fighting, because fighting was, like, I swear. That's why, yeah. That's my idea. Sorry, sorry. It's in my body. It's like, in my blood. Like, you know, I think you can understand. Let's say you're at a site and you see people combat, like, kicking targets, right? Your legs reach. Yeah. Your legs reach. Right. You really want to, kind of, exact same thing. Uh-huh. So, I really wanted to do a sparring. However, they kept me at a blue belt. Also, the pattern system is white, yellow, green, blue, red, black, and that's. So, there are white, yellow, green, blue, blue, red, red, black, red, black, then black, right? Red, black, then black. Right, right. And in between the lines, the belt's obviously their lines. So, it's white, white, yellow, yellow, yellow, green, green, blue. But the thing is, you can double so you can be safe $25 from going to the. To the grading. To the grading, yellow. Okay. It's exact same thing. So, I went all the way to blue, very early, actually. I was forced to stay there for three to four years. Yes. Yes, that's the thing. So, I was. So, in order to fight in a competition, it must be Red Bell. And I was training Pumse. Yeah. I trained Pumse all the way to 2018, 2019. And I was. Wait, why did they not let you agree? Oh, because. They want you to be in that category. To be in that category. Ah, yeah, yeah. In BJJ, this is called sandbagging. Oh, sandbagging. So, they'll purposely make people stay at white belts so that they can win competitions, even though they're so experienced. That's the thing, that's the thing. So, it's really entertaining because as a blue belt, when I went to. I even though I did Pumse a lot, especially. But mostly towards the competition period, I still did the expiring training and everything. It was really entertaining because whenever a Red Bell or Black Bell sees me in their class, they think, "Why is he here? He shouldn't be here." That's funny. That's really funny. They found out that I can sort of keep up and be like, "Okay, Bell doesn't mean anything." Wow. That's interesting. That's really. You know something, 100%. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you were, I guess, focused in Pumse. Then, after that, you're like, "Chulgi," it is that you wanted to try, so you did both. I did both. So, I trained Kyoji and Pumse. However, in terms of competition, I only could officially participate in Pumse because I'm only a blue belt. But I already had plans to fight in the final polite games, actually. But the thing is that I was held back because of internship. I couldn't go for my grading. I was too flooded with work. You know what's interesting is that in karate, it's actually kind of the opposite. Usually, the kata guys are the higher ranking guys. And the kumide people, the sparring guys, don't necessarily have to be of a high level. Because in karate, there's so many kata, so there's so many things to learn. So, until you reach the level of learning a competition level, it takes a long, long time. The sparring people, they won, they're already doing sparring. That's great. So, it's the opposite. I didn't know in Taekwondo, you had to be a red belt too. Oh, that's very interesting. The thing is, in grading, if you're a green belt, a green belt on words, you'd have to have shadow sparring with whichever is nearby you, whoever's taking the grading at the same time. Which is actually really funny because a lot of the time when we do it, you would see eight to six-year-olds doing it with you. So, I had once fight a six-year-old in front of me. And I swear, you were so adorable. But I could not bear to throw a single kick. Of course. Yeah, I still doubled, obviously. It was so entertaining because you were so into it. And it was actually hitting me, and I had to demonstrate my kicks. But how do I. You knew the dilemma of like, because you were so small as well. I didn't want to accidentally step on it. But I love that. I think that this little kid is giving it his all. This dude is like, you know, David and Goliath. This guy is like, double my size, but I'm still gonna. Right. It's so passionate. It really is a touching sight because he shows that he really was into Taekwondo. Right. A lot of people do Taekwondo because they're forced to. They're not of schools, actually. They're forced Taekwondo. But that kid was definitely something else. That's awesome, man. Right, right, that's cool. So, now you are not continuing Taekwondo. Or do you still do it once more? I still do it Taekwondo. I still do it. I can't. A sickness cannot stop me. Oh, wow. And, well, you're not in uni yet. No. But when you do get into uni, I guess you will continue on Taekwondo. Okay. So, unfortunately, that is where I have a small dilemma because. Not all uni's have Taekwondo. Oh, no, that's right. I mean, all uni's have Taekwondo in Singapore. Oh, really? As far as I know. As far as I know. Yeah. And so you and US, S-I-M, S-I-T, S-M-U, all have Taekwondo to my knowledge, definitely. But, the issue is because as much as I want to continue Taekwondo, I am still a, you know, a cancer patient, a stage 4 cancer patient. So, because of that, I have a number of severe, not severe serious procedures to go through. So, I have a surgery actually coming up in March. Okay. Yeah, that surgery is terribly extensive because. So, the basis of it is a. I'm going to cut open my body from my chest level here. All the way down to my. No, my crotch region. Yes. It's like a big opening. And then what you're going to do is, they're going to remove all of my internal organs. But mostly my intestines actually, they don't flip it out. And they're going to see. They're going to add a back where your body has these kidneys. It's a two major blood vessels, which travel all the way to your legs. That's what gives blood to your legs. So, that is where, according to the CT scan, where all my lymph nodes are. So, a bit of information on lymph nodes, they are mutated cells from cancer cells. So, basically, they are the. In the sense, cancer cells itself, but they're like. They're the reason. These lymph nodes expand and mutate and, like, convue. You just need to, like, one big lump. All because of the cancer cells attacking it in the sense. Which is why. Just so. Okay. Okay, we're going to have a lot to unpack this sense. Okay, first of all, I have to say that. I appreciate how you're, like, so open about it. And I think that's awesome because. By doing this, you know, like. This is the thing that I talk about a lot as well. You know, in life, we go through many different things. Where we go to ups and downs. We go through mistakes. We go through pitfalls. We go through sickness. We go through pain. We go through lots of shit, right? But, I think, very often, especially as men, we try to, like, not share it. You know, and we're like, "Oh, you know, we'll put up a front." But, no, that's great. I think that's really great that you're sharing it, right? So, can I ask. I guess, so that we can get context in the whole thing. Right now, you said you are a stage 4 cancer patient. Yes. Okay. Can I understand a little bit? Pardon my ignorance. I did a bit of research before you came over, but. Stage 1, if you detect it early, it's something that. Something can be done about it, right? So, how does this work? So, cancer has four stages, as you know. One, two, three, four. Stages 1 to three are very much survivable. Reasons because, okay, stages 1 to 2 are cancer stages where. In most cases, nothing happens. Not, you do nothing about it. Reasons because their detection is so early and they believe that. It could simply just be a product of something else. Oh, this is 1 to 3. Yeah, 1 and 2 mostly. Oh, 1 and 2? Where they will detect the tumor, but the thing is. Most of the time, they don't know if this tumor will actually do anything now or later. So, the procedure to cure cancer, step 1, is always to remove the source. So, if you want to know my type of cancer, it's testicular cancer. Meaning, my testicles have tumors in them, which causing them to spread cancer cells to my body. I left them on specifically. So, in order to do that, you need to remove the source entirely. So, right now, I only have one testicle. Right. My right side, okay. So, what happens is. For stages 1 and 2, a lot of the time, they don't do anything. Because they think that, oh, it could be nothing or it could just be something that. A bipolar or something else, that's a thing. So, tends nothing to be done. But, if you want to be played safe, you can remove it early and more or less, you're good. And this was your choice to have it removed. I guess your parents chose. Oh, unfortunately, I detected it only as they chose. I had no choice. I see. That's the thing. That's why, because my condition is actually a very complex and intense one, actually. Okay. The reasons because. Okay, would you like to know, like. Okay, so. Go, no, please. For more contacts, basically. Then, stages 3 is where the area. Basically, is it particularly the area of where it was detected, for example, breast cancer? Stage 3 is where the mutated cells have already spread to most of that particular area. Okay. So, stage 3 is still very much curable. You can just remove the source and a bit of chemotherapy. That is more than enough. And most of the times, stage 3 is very, very curable, I'd say. Obviously, it depends on the type of cancer. But, the testicular cancer is the most treatable form. Yeah, that's what I read. So, that was interesting. Yeah, that is the most treatable form of cancer. Because it's outside of the body. Because the testicles are outside the body. Okay, not that. In addition, the particular. I'm not exactly sure, but it turns out. Because the type of chemicals they use. Okay. Formate is bromaicin, cisplatin, and. It's called BEP. These are like three chemicals that they use for chemotherapy. So, these chemicals react very well against testicular cancer cells. So, they do it. That's why it's such a high success rate. And high survival rate is because testicular cancer reacts so well to these chemotherapy. Like, 95% of the cases, chemotherapy is all you need. And a bit of surgery just to remove this go full stop. However, mine, how do you say? As a stage 3 is where the area of the where the origin form is mutated. But it hasn't spread to other regions yet. For me, unfortunately, I discovered it. Farve into stage 4, where the cancer cells have already infected my lungs, in a sense. So, my left lung, especially right now, has three massive tumors. Like, if you're talking, we want to talk about size. This is before chemotherapy, of course. The size of the tumors were 6 to 8 centimeters. Yeah, that's one for each. So, the smallest one is for the six. The bigger one is 8 to 9. Yeah, it really is that big. So, it feels like, like, 1, 2, 3. It really is quite a mass on me. And in addition to that, I also have the lymph nodes, which I said earlier. Yeah. The amalgamation of cells. They are towards my back. So, what happened back then was it was so painful. So, it was okay. It was so painful that it was pushing my spine. So, I was always tilted one side, which was terribly painful, obviously. And the size of the amalgamation. So, lymph nodes we all have. They are about 1 to 2 centimeters, in most cases, about a millimeter. Mine were 4 centimeters, and they were a big bunch. It's like someone shoved a whole fruit in my back. Yeah, that's literally how I felt and looked. Yeah. Okay. Wow. I don't know how you're talking about this, like, so casually. It's not. Yeah, I've ever done the releases. You've, like, come to terms with it. Oh, definitely, definitely. Yeah. I think that there's no point in being, I just say. So, sad about it, because the end of the day, it is. I'm still fighting. I'm still alive. I'm still here. So, there is definitely a. I believe, as long as I'm here, I always transform into a counter and do my best, you know. Which is why I'm trying my best to exercise and try to hit my physical peak before I reach here. Damn. Respect, man. It's not. I don't think it's that respect. It's just a small thing. I need to grab a water. Okay, so. Okay, when I. When I picture a cancer, right? I picture, like. I don't know if it's. If it's spawn, or is it, like, Spider-Man or something, where, like. This black thing, like, spreads into the body. I think I know where you get an image from. It's from Tetong video. Oh, no. I don't think so. But this is just in my head. I imagine that that's what it's like. It really is. It's like that. It is like that. Yeah. So, the cells, the. Let's just call them bad cells, just because. Okay, the bad cells. Not doctors. But the bad cells then spread, and it starts to take up more of your body. Yes. That's what's going on. One hundred percent. Okay. So, the tumors have. Okay, this is very interesting, because testicular cancer patients, right? They'll be able to detect it early in the business, because there are one of the testicles tend to be enlarged, or overly. Overly painful. For me, it was the exact same size, the slight enlargement. It was slightly enlarged, but there was nothing for me to be worried about, exactly. Right. It wasn't any. I also stopped. It was like, oh, I don't think you have testicular cancer, because it looks the same. However, a scan showed that the tumors were inside my testicle itself. That's why you can't feel anything, and they were so small. However, they were so small, they have caused so much damage to my body, which is why the doctors think that by type of testicular cancer is really, really rare. It's really something. Oh, this is quite extraordinary, because it's something that you. It's not typical at all. It really isn't normal. But imagine you have all the signs, you have no signs at all that you have, like, some things coming towards you, and all of a sudden it's just there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like that. But it's okay. That explains why you did not detect it all the way until stage four. Yeah, definitely. Which is. Actually, there were a lot of other signs, which I chose to ignore. But there were a lot of reasons because a bit of more contact. Because in April, that was the polite game for 2021. It was originally last year, but because of COVID, they had to push it back. So I was training for it for two and a half months, intensive training, four or five trainings a week. Morning to night, it was. I won't say torturous, but it was definitely very painful. And I definitely felt healthier than before, obviously, because of pushing myself in Pumse, and I feel for a bit one year in there. Unfortunately, I had severe back pain for about eight months to ten months. That's the thing. And this back pain, I thought, "Oh, it's because I'm just giving too much. I'm training too hard. I think it's just a muscle thing." And I searched out online, "Oh, people, teens or teenagers or adults of 19 to 21 have back pains often." So I decided, "It's not a big deal." But the thing is, it was. Because I believe I have a high pain tolerance, because I believe, "Oh, I just pushed things aside and keep going around about my day." The thing is, because of my pain tolerance, I did not. I think the pain was so bad, until I realized that one day I could not. I could barely move, in a sense. But for some reason, I've no idea what I was on. I still kept going to training every single day for two or three months. Every day, my pain was killing me. It was as if someone's constantly ripping out my spine, in a sense. That's a way to pick it up. I kept training every day, so I think so much. I was losing so much weight. And I didn't think of cancer at all, because it's. It's so unlikely. Yeah, you just think. It's just a pain. It's just a pain. And I'm healthy. I don't smoke. I don't. I don't do anything at all, which is. It's so ironic. Really is. So, after the competition. I went into the competition the day before the competition, actually. I had a few sets of practice warm-up scenarios. I was on the floor. I was crawling in pain. But I still had to go inside and do my pattern, as well as possible. And they all said, "Oh, you did well." Okay, great. So, I cannot mess this up anymore. So, the next day, I went there. I took as many pain killers as possible. Obviously, we didn't really go to such our parents and them all and everything. And then I came. I went there. I had a competition. And I won. It was lovely. Absolutely. I was so happy about it, because I was. All my pain and effort was definitely worth it and everything. Yeah. Then, unfortunately. It was three events. I won two and got silver for the third one. It was not a big deal. But, like, it was a small margin. Why would there be three? It's a boom say, and then it's. Oh, there we go again. The reason is because a boom say. Yeah. Multiple categories. So, that's individual team. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. I did. I got gold for individual and team, but pair I got silver, which is. I see. But the thing is that, it's because I had a small mix up in my psychic. Oh, I see. Apart from that, I think my. Yeah, pair is one male one female. One male one female, yes. Must be one male one female. Okay. The group is must be same gender. Oh, no. Male, female male, or female male female. No. It really depends. Oh, cannot be three guys. Cannot be three guys. Cannot be three girls. Yes. Oh, I see. And for plus points, they have. They have to be around the same height for better presentation. That's all. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. I just recently started a sidetrack, but. I just saw a video of a Taiwanese girl. do a round off back top, and she fell, doing boom say. Okay. But this was. I think it's like a freestyle division. Is that freestyle demonstration? Right. And then there's music and then. Yeah. That is theoretically an official event. Okay. People do have marking systems and grading for it. Okay. But it is not recognized in Olympics or. in Olympic level or anything. So in the Olympics, what is played? Sparring is played. Sparring and boom say. Individual boom say. Individual team and pair. All three. All right. Yeah. So the maximum number of medals can win in one particular competition is four. I see. Three, three, boom say. And one competition. Let's see if you fight very well. And you're a master of boom say. For example. There is no team sparring. There is team sparring. So there's five. But the thing is that it's not an official for us. It doesn't count in our melee count. In our total medal count for points for overall championship. It's just a fun thing that everyone loves to do. Because it's very. It's very like. so is it. Yeah, you're 100%. That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, sorry for sidetracking. No, definitely. While we're on an important topic here. Yeah, so I mean, first of all, congrats on winning that. I hope people that are competing against you when they listen to this. They're like, "Oh my goodness, that's what he was battling with." It's not a big deal in my opinion. I don't think I deserve such a big praise. Like, "Oh my God, you won with cancer." It's just, I just did my best and I got. I love that, man. Hey, do you. Okay, first of all, can I ask. At any point, you feel like you're not comfortable, they just let me know. But when you first got the news, right? How did it sink in? Was there a stage of grief? I'm sure your family, as well, is very difficult for your sister and your parents. What is the journey between getting that news and you being so strong and out there today? What is the journey like? This is where, in my opinion, the podcast will peak. Because this is where everything happens, like everything at once. So, in my opinion, I've always been a recipient of hardship in majority of my life. Because, you know, my parents weren't the best role models. My father, especially, he was a community abusive. So, my mother was. As she's loving, she's caring a lot for so much. She really is fantastic. But the thing is, sometimes she can get overly stressed. And therefore, she herself would tend to lash out at us sometimes. Which I'm completely understandable, obviously, because she's the only one working. My father doesn't work. So, because of that, he didn't do anything apart from just stay at home, obviously. So, my mum was stressed with work and everything. And so, it's because I've always been a recipient of, in the sense of being the short end of the stake. If you understand that, because of that, it feels like. When I got this, it really didn't feel like a big thing. Because even though it's people can say, "Oh, I picked my life because I want a competition." I was about to enter into you. I have fantastic grades and everything. I always say fantastic grades have 3.7. It's not a big deal. I can definitely get a lot better. I have decent grades and everything. But the issue was, when I got that news, it just felt like another day for me, if you think about it. It really does. It really does. Because I've never. Understand that, "Oh, your life could be oversharned." That's the mindset that people keep telling me, "Your life could be over." You're sick. You're terribly sick. I never felt that in my head. It never clicked in my head that it was such a big deal. Because I've always had that instances where, "Oh, my father. " In a sense, not really my father, more of my family in general, was not a bad environment. I go to school sometimes. It's a bad environment. I'm just getting another news from the hospital. It just seems similar to that. I just another day. Yeah, I just another day. So I just struggled it off. In a sense, I did have a lot of grief in a little bit later. Because I was thinking, "Oh, I worked so hard for a lot of what I do in my opinion." In terms of my work ethic. I really believe that I'm not a very talented person. In a sense, because I started things late. I'm terribly blue-minded. But I really enjoyed the success that I got all the however much success I received at the end. But the thing is, even though I did receive the news of my life could come to an end, it really felt as if I could just. Obviously, even though the grief did hit me in the end. I was like, "Oh, I could die and everything." But it lasted terribly short. Is there a moment where you go to where you're like, "What the fuck? Why me?" Yeah, definitely. One hundred percent. That happens to me on a day-to-day basis. There's so many people in this world. And you're like, "Why in this life?" And in all the people, why is it me? Why me? Because I have a sister. It's just a bit of a different context. I have a sister, right? She is. I'm not close to her because she herself isn't particularly the best. But the thing is she had a more quote-unquote blessed life than me, because my parents bought her much more because she was the older one. She was the first child. So in addition to that, she got given anything she wanted and everything. In terms of me, they were very hard. They would kill me, hit me. Obviously, they would kill my sister as well. But for me, right? A lot of things could not go. It could not just pass. Let's say you lose your phone back then. My sister would get a new one next day. If I even touched my phone at, like, past 10, I would get my ass beat. I would be on the floor, again, my ass beat. That's the thing. So, yeah. That's the thing. Even though I definitely felt like, why me? Because in this comparison, even though my sister is given a much more and everything, I always believed the concept of suffered now, laugh a little, like, definitely. But that never came. If you understand what I mean, that really never came. I did enjoy it. I do love my friends so much. Their company is all they ask for. They are fantastic people. But the thing is, apart from that, I feel like my life, even though I suffered so much initially, in a sense. It was still cut short in the end because of this. There's still only so much I can suffer. Well, I think we're too. As in you feel like all this hard work will be put to an end, does it? In a sense, because the news that we see from my doctor was, my life expectancy isn't very good after my news. What does it sound like? Does he give you a specific day? It's not really a day, but things that. If I had not gone through chemotherapy. Your chemotherapy, you've gone through it. I've gone through it a long time ago. Four rounds I completed my last. I started in mid-July and I ended in end September. It was two and a half months of goodness. But this is eating pills, right? No, no, no. Okay, please educate me. Okay, chemotherapy is. There are many ways. For most cases, it is simply a needle in the vein. Every single day you go to the doctor's hospital. You get multiple needles in the vein. And then you get pumped with chemicals for four to six hours a day. And then you go home. There you repeat that. Every single day. So every day you remove needle, insert needle, remove needle. So you can see on my arm right now. You can see there are a lot of spots here. These are where all the needles have been, in a sense. And I need to suffer that for like two and a half months. Yeah, every day. Almost every day. Every day. And I have months. That's one cycle. No, one cycle is three weeks. Three weeks. Yeah. Okay, and you did it back to back. Back to back. Back to back. Yeah. And this process makes the cancer shrink. Yes, because the chemicals that get into your body damage your body overall. But it reacts to the cancer cells most effectively. So therefore, it's an overall. You take some, you lose some kind of thing. So it's like, it damages the cancer. It weakens your body. But it also weakens the cancer cells a lot more. It more, much more effectively. Yeah. If you understand how that means. Okay. The reason. And yeah, that comes to the side effects of chemotherapy. Because it wasn't. Obviously, the insertion of needles and everything is terribly painful. And the loss of hair. Oh, 100%. It was. I mean, I had quite long hair back then. So I was losing my health. I was going to lose my hair anyway. And I had no service. Right. But it's. I mean, it seemed like a completely bald. It was really. But this is hair on your head or your eyebrows and everything as well. Oh, right now? No, no, no. When you're going to. Oh, everywhere. Like, like, armpits, my eyebrows. I stopped growing my facial hair for two months. Really? Yeah. Yeah. What can I ask? Like, what does that do to you emotionally? Like, when you're going to. Oh, does it, you know? It definitely hit me very hard. You know? Like, is it hard? Kind of like, it's harder to be. Happy, it's harder to be positive. It definitely is. Or do you feel like. You know, like. Are you constantly hungry? Or do you. You know, like, what are the. Because chemotherapy affects us all very much emotionally. Depression is a terribly common cause. Because every day you go in, you feel quite uncomfortable. Because the chemical is cold. For sure. It gives you a cold. Your body will start reacting. And then by the time you reach home, you feel the normal one causes. The number one side effect is nausea. Okay. My tummy would feel vomiting. Your vomiting. Your lot of things. My tummy would feel terrible for three weeks. Almost every single day. Then, I would have a small break, actually. At the end of my. At the second or third week of every cycle, I have a few days of break, which is too greater. But those days, I spent like. My tummy would feel terrible. Like, I could. I could barely eat. I could barely sleep. It was terrible. And my. Often, my head. I would. Small migraines. Right. My ears would ring quite often, which were terribly. I mean, as much as I would like to say that all. It was no. It was no kick for me, obviously. It really did hit me quite a lot emotionally, especially. Sure. Because every day, I go back suffering. My friends are all enjoying their holidays after the polytechnic. The moment I got my diploma on April, I was diagnosed. It's almost as if I'd never got a break. If you think about it. You really think about it? Yeah. And that was interestingly enough. Would you like to know the full story of. Oh, please. Okay. So, I went to in April. I was diagnosed, obviously. My parents were. were obviously terribly sad. But the thing is that. In order to get information about my tumor, exactly the tumors in my lungs, that they were the massive, obviously, they had to perform a biopsy. So, a biopsy is what happens when you enter your body and remove samples of the particular infected area for research and examination to determine what exactly is the cancer and what should we do? And they need to cut out bits. No, no, no. They need to insert a needle in me. Okay, okay. And with the drawer, a sample of the tumor. Okay. All of this, a week. I was awake. I was lying there under. Why? Under anesthesia. Because these are things, general anesthesia is not necessary. Local anesthesia is all they need. Oh, yeah, okay. You have local anesthesia. Yeah, yeah. Okay, hopefully. One second, I was lying. Why are they? Okay, okay. It was really funny. I had local anesthesia. I would literally see a needle, like the size of my forearm. Just enter my body. And they just. And I was like, how far are they going? Oh, eight centimeters into your body. Eight whole centimeters. So, they inserted it in. They took it out. Did you not look? Oh, it was really entertaining. Because the doctor was lovely. He was fantastic, by the way. Her skills were like 10/10. I felt almost no pain. So, he covered my eyes in a sense where it's like the covering. So, there's like a blue color cloth over me. So, they could like specialise where the area is to the insert. The cloth just nice covered my eyes. So, I couldn't see anything apart from my hands just moving above my eyes. A bit hearing that. But not the needle itself. But then, after I caught, came out. I saw the size of the needle. It was massive. That was after that. Right. Yeah, then I was. Yeah, after. Can I know the doctor's name, Dean? Oh, unfortunately, no. Oh, yeah. I couldn't even. I was way too stressed. Oh, yeah. I wish I could see her. She worked in Senkong General Hospital. Okay. She was lovely. And she was terribly nice, obviously. Okay. Wow, that's really cool. So, now we're at the stage where, okay, you detected it. And now they have the biopsy, right? So, they need to take samples. Right. So, what happens after that? Okay. So, I was about to go after the biopsy. Okay. Unfortunately, the day before the biopsy was my graduation. So, I was really happy. I went there with my graduation role. I still walked out and took my phone and everything. Obviously, all my friends were like, "Oh, my God, Sean, are you okay?" I was like, "Yeah, yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine." The thing is that they do not believe I have cancer till this day. Some of them, because I look decent enough. Yes. You look like you have nothing. You have positivity, right? Yeah. Okay. I walk around, even though I have a lot of pain. I still walk around normally. Yeah, this is it. I'm entering a lot. And then they say, "Oh, look, you're fine." I'm fine, I'm fine. They took a photo of me. They noticed that I'm terribly skinny. Because cancer causes me to burn a lot of calories, a lot of fat. I lost 5 kg in like two or three weeks. Really? Yeah, I was 53. Okay. That was my lowest point. No, I'm 64. No, I'm 64. No, I'm 16, because I managed to book a book back in everything. Right, right. Then on the day of my graduation took a photo of my family and everything, it was, unfortunately, at that night. I was talking to my friends because they were like, "Oh, great, congratulations. I was on this court." I was like, "Oh, congratulations. I have my father called to me." And I followed. I was like, "Oh, could you come here real quick?" Like, he was screaming my name. And when inside, it turns out he's having a heart attack. Terrible heart attack. It's shaming heart attack. Wait, hold up. Hold up. Sorry. Okay, okay. Hold up. Sorry. Okay, okay. Hold up. So, he had your dad had a heart attack the day before you got my helps. Yeah, the day before that. It was six. If I remember correctly, eight to ten hours before my biopsy. Specifically. Because my biopsy was at 8 a.m. It was 12 a.m. in the morning. 12 to 1. Wow. Then get a heart attack. Okay. I called the authorities. It came over. It did CPR. He transferred him to hospital. Unfortunately, it's two to three a.m. He passed away. Which is really, really unfortunate obviously. But the thing is, how do you say? Are you alright? No, this is crazy. Yeah, yeah. This is why. This is all true. This is 100%. No, I'm doing it at home with my mom. This is insane, man. So he had a heart attack and he passed away. At two or three a.m. One or two, yeah. Before your biopsy day. Before my biopsy day. And you went to do your biopsy day. Immediately after. Immediately after. And then after that was the wake and everything. Yes. Yes, 100%. Which is ironic. Because the week before, my grandmother passed away as well. So it was a constant sequence of terrible events. So it was first my grandmother. I felt terrible. I went to, like you say, respects. I got home. My graduation. Father passed away. Biopsy. That was. That all happened in five days. Five to seven. Yeah. It was really a roller coaster. However, the thing is, I still felt no pain. Which is terribly. No, you know, you may think I'm like, bullshit thing. But I really felt so little emotions. Because okay, like I said, my father was a abusive person. So I didn't have much of a connection with him. But the thing is, my friend said, oh, he's your father. And I was thinking, yeah, I really wish I had a better relationship with him. Yeah. When I, as I grew up, you know. Right. But unfortunately, I don't have the chance anymore. Because he was so abusive to me. I didn't want to talk to him. I didn't want to even look at him at all. I didn't even want to be in the same room as him. Because everything that came out of his mouth was terribly rude. Right. And often racist. And he would hit me, hit. And sometimes push my mother as well. And I'm like. And I mean, my relatives always believe that he did his best by my opinion. He's really quite done more. But the thing is, at the end of the day, he's still my father. So I at least have that level of respect. Minimum in a sense. But I, yeah, that's why. Yeah, that's another topic. Yeah, remind me to touch on that. The parenting later. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So then we're at biopsy. Okay. So what do they do? The biopsy, they then take the sample. They take the sample. And then it takes a while to get the results. Exactly one thing. Okay. The thing is, there was a bit of good news. And originally because they said that the tumors may not be cancerous. I forgot the term for it. I think it's management and some. I've completely forgotten. I just saw her just now. Yeah. You understand what I'm talking about? Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. This is the thing. These tumors IV dot could, there's a chance for it to be non-cancerous. Yes. And, however, unfortunately, it was supposed to take a week. However, because I was more of a high priority patient, but in three to four days, they got back to me saying that, oh, this is very cancerous and terribly aggressive cancer. Wait, it was or it wasn't? Oh, no. The cancer was like, there was a chance where it wasn't. However, after the analysis, they said, oh, this is 100% cancer. And you're tumor markers. tumor markers. That's like the sh*tter's confirmation, I don't think of it. Yeah, this is like, oh, this is definitely cancer. We need you to go to the National Cancer Center in Senggang, which is in Singapore to the hospital for further evaluation and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. Yes. Oh, like I said, what? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So what I'm imagining is they tell you to go down and they say, look, you need to begin chemo ASAP. Not necessarily ASAP, but in July, so I still actually end of June. It just reminds me. So I had a lot of, I won't say a lot of three times, but I had a month or two of like, just even though it was a terrible pain, obviously. Yes. Every morning I woke up, I could not walk, like almost going to walk out. There's a period, there's a month, there's like a few weeks where I was in a wheelchair because I cannot physically bring myself to stand up anymore. And we just, I run it because a few weeks ago from that day, I was still thinking that it was just a back pain. Yeah. Exactly. That's the thing. Exactly. I was being wheelchair around. And especially for someone like me who pride it in, I will say pride, but I had confidence in physical ability. Being wheelchair really felt a very low point in my life, obviously. Sure. Because I pushed myself for physical, like physical competence in the sense. Right. And then the wheelchair is like, it really feels as if I've been punched in a gut and punched in a dick. In the sense that, yeah. Yeah. I have been on a wheelchair before because I've broken things. And what not. Yeah. And also before surgery, they always will share you. I don't know if it's. Yeah. You know, they always have. I had no choice but to be wheelchair. Even though I said I could walk. I said no, no, no. Yes, you have to. I think, honestly, I think that's the way of making, yeah. And also they don't want you, first of all, I don't think they want you to be sweaty and tired and all that. The other thing, I think it helps you to be parked at one place. So you don't move around. Okay, I remember when I first had surgery, right, the one thing that freaked me out was that every nurse that I see, right? They passed me from nurse to nurse to nurse to like, and the, uh, what is it called? And it's the easiest. And then, and then everyone keeps asking me because I had like an operation. Okay, no, this was my second one. Sorry. It was on my right foot. I had to get operated, right? And they would ask me, uh, hello, sir. Can you please tell me what your name is? Then I give them my name. Like, okay, can you give me an IC number? I give an IC number. Okay. Can you tell me which leg are you going to be operating? Operating? Or which leg is going to be operating? And then I got so freaking worried. I was like, wait, are you telling me you guys don't know what operation? But then later on, I began to understand like, uh, okay, they need to confirm this as they go from stage to stage. They need to make sure like, okay, this is the correct patient. We're not cutting open the wrong patient, right? But when I first had it done, right? I was, I was just like, do you guys not even know what operation they'll ask me? What operation are you here for? And I'm like, damn it, you guys don't know. Um, my first ever, was it my, I think it's my first ever operation was actually to get my tongue cut. So yeah, my, um, the bottom of my tongue is like, it was connected so far that I had something called like short tongue. So I couldn't stretch it out very far. So my first operation was like, oh, it's a simple operation to be fine. You know, and there I am sitting in a wheelchair right before I went into operating theater. This bed came out. I just, I still remember vividly in my head. This bed comes out and they're like rushing this guy on a bed. And there's a doctor on, on the bed giving him CPR. And like everyone's like mad rushing. And yeah, that really made me feel like, oh my goodness. I've seen that multiple times already. Right. Yeah. And it's like, but, but, but anyway, you know, like, uh, what I was going to say was that, okay, there's some, there's some parallels here. Right. Like, um, I think when you're on a wheelchair and when you are like, 'cause I've been on crutches before. I'm not sure if you've been on crutches too. But the way people look at you in a time like that is sometimes it feels very odd. It feels like I wish I could explain to you or you guys don't know the full story about me. Exactly. The closest thing to that is actually being an entertainment. Yes. Because a lot of people meet you and they think that you are a certain person or they think you're a certain way. But they don't really know who you are. And they look at you and they maybe they want something or they want to like judge you or do something. Um, and maybe they see you in a certain light or something. But very often the feeling is like, I wish I could connect with you more so that I could tell you and explain to you, you know, and, and I could share something good with you. You know, rather than just seeing someone who you know off like YouTube. I mean, like, oh, hey, or someone off TV, you know, so I think like that longing to like, gosh, I wish I could, I could do more for you or do more with you. I think it's something that is very similar to when, when I'm wheelchair bound. But anyway, I digress. I'm being a bit selfish here. No, these are things. I would tell you. I was very happy to hear that you have such a similar experience to being wheelchair and everything. Especially when in public, people look at me a young boy like in a wheelchair. They think I'm nonsense. They cannot believe I'm in a wheelchair. My legs look fine. I look fine. That's okay. That's also another point. So I had slipped disc right when I was like 19. So slightly younger than you. I had really bad slip discs and it was very difficult for me to walk, but at that time I was at NS. So I was wearing an army uniform with slip discs. I was so painful. I was like agonizingly painful, but I cannot sit on the MRT. So I used to just stand because I know that people look at me and be like, hey, this NS boy was you trying to like sit on chair. So I had to purposely stand even though my back was like agonizing and then at some points I'll try to go to find a corner and just sit in the corner because it was just too painful. I can definitely imagine that. I did take public transport and it was I just wanted to sit down because it was hoping for the worst. I can't say, oh, I can't explain, especially when the person in front of me is like someone who most likely doesn't need it as much as me. I feel a bit entitled here, but most likely the situation. But that is the factor in that. I think something which is we talk about clowns having silver lining or like blessings. I feel like someone who's going through what you've gone through, who's going through what you're going through. Your ability to be compassionate or to feel other people's pain is increased so much that I feel like when you've gone through something so tough. You become less jaji in a way. And you kind of understand when you meet people you're like, you know, that person might be going through something. And what often what what meets the eye is just on the surface, there's always more to that, you know, I think like as I get older in life, you know, you're a young dude. So I think it's it's amazing that you have this ability or this level of compassion. I think when I was a lot younger, I remember like I say this because recently I saw this dude do an interview and when I looked at him, I felt a little bit not comfortable. I felt a little bit unhappy with him because this guy was a young guy who was a successful guy and he was saying stuff like, you know, like, oh really you're feeling depressed. Oh man, just fucking do something about it. Man, why do you just like chill, you know, I know you're depressed, but hey, depression's not going to cure itself, so just get up and do your thing. But I get his point, you know, but then that reminded me of when I was in my 20s, you know, when I was like that and I was like, oh yeah, you want to do something, you know, get up and do it. You think it's impossible. It's possible, you know, but I think that as much as we don't want to wallow and all sorrows forever, there needs to be a time of grieving, right? Bad news or trauma or something happens, there needs to be a period of griefing, of healing, then, okay, yes, let's go up, you know, but we do need to understand and have compassion for those people who are grieving or who are going through that stage of recovery. You know, and I think very, very often people even miss that stage of fail to understand that. Yeah, definitely, because I personally think that, really, are you cold or are you? No, no, no, no, no, I'm 100% fine. I'm comfortable. Okay, I'm like freezing, so I don't change it a bit, but yeah, they're gone. I mean, because the reasons because people who understand the obviously like you understand why people have that mindset, because they believe the action in action is the result of your grief, of your suffering in my opinion, because if you don't do anything about it, doesn't matter what your situation is, if you don't try your best, you will never succeed. The thing is, grieving is so important, especially because it helps our mind be mentally, more mentally prepared for what's coming next. The reason is because if you do not have the mental capability or mental, like in a sense, the mental, you're not in the right mindset to tackle what's next. You will topple and force extremely easily, because that means that you're not meant, you're not prepared for anything at all. The minimum that it can be, that it can be prepared for is mentally in some way, because even though something bad is coming to you right, and you think that, oh, I just have to do it. I just have to, like, pick, I'll kick my feet out and like, do it. If you don't register and process it, right, you will not, you didn't really learn anything from experience. Yes, yes, 100%, there's a thing. Yes, yes, yes, yes, that's really the point. If you're constantly being ignorant of and not acknowledging the pain, you've done yourself no favors and you start out for nothing. And that is the most terrible thing to happen, suffer for nothing. You've missed the revelation, you've gone through the trauma, but essentially have missed what was revealed to you by not grieving, by just pushing it away and saying, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine to move on. But when you take that time, I hear you, when you take that time to the, you know, sit back, go take the time to go through it and grieve and heal, and learn, you're trying to, like, be better as well, right? If we were to give it a gym analogy, it's like, we do different muscles all the time, right? We do a different part, we rest a few days, then we do it again. But if I keep tearing my chest every day, right, it doesn't give a time to heal. Or, like, you don't have enough rest in between, you would simply just do it, just do it, just do it, just keep pushing, just keep pushing. You have no time for rest, you're not meant to be prepared. Your performance is significantly hindered by it, not because, not because you physically cannot, because you mentally just have an accepted effect or you're just mentally not ready. That's right. Yeah, that's, that's so true. You know, another analogy, a slightly far-fetched, but still an analogy was, I, I had a, I invited the strongest man in Singapore, all the podcasts. Oh, you heard that? So, so, so, so, Tulfik, right? So I remember, like, I was doing lifting along with some other bodybuilder friends of mine, and we, we would lift, right? And every time there was a failed lift, he goes walk away, you know, but, but as young guys are fucking, no, I want to try to get one to go again, and he goes, no, no, stop, stop, walk away. And interestingly, when someone stops trying, walks away, resets, and mentally, like, configures everything correctly, and comes back, they can lift again. It's incredible, right? Because I think muscle-wise, we, we have a reset, brain-wise, we have a reset, concentration-wise, we have a reset, you know, I think that's, that's so important. Hey, I, I wanted to ask, like, you know, I, I think now we kind, I, I have learned a lot more about, you know, cancer and what it does to the body and all that. Like, once, or like, having known that you have this condition, right, have you made, like, does it give you a, okay, how do I say this? It's almost like, now you're a car with no, you know, you've gone, I have, I have gone through shit stuff. Now, I know how fragile life is. It's like, you fucking rise again, like, the Phoenix, and you have another life. And it's like, only then, do you feel like, I don't know if there's a feeling of, like, invincibility. Oh, I do feel invincible. Right? Right? And it makes you just have the guts to do shit, you know? Like, I've hit the lowest of low, you know, my life sucked. And now that everything is all turned to shit, well, it cannot go down anymore, so there's only up. Is there, like, a renewal? That 100%. I definitely felt that I don't say that's a specific point, but that is why I really feel like, especially after chemotherapy, where I just say, 'cause in the past, I would always be too afraid to try a lot of things. For example, when I'm gymming, let's say, I'm always afraid to tell myself, 'cause I like to push myself extensively, and my friends call me crazy when I'm gym, which is really entertaining to see the reactions when they see me exercise. When, once I reach, I just say, after chemotherapy, I worked, I really had this mindset of, like, okay, I really gone through so much pain. There is nothing on earth that can actually stop me or tell me, or you motivate me, or like, discourage me from doing anything I want to do. So I took every form of derringability possible, and I just did it. For example, in the past, I'll get off, like, heights, rides, everything. Now, I can literally, like, look down on, like, some super tall people, like, I jump off this, if I had a bungee right now, 100%. When I'm going to gym, I will push myself 200%, 300%, every single day, I will break PRs constantly, because I. That's funny. That means it's not a big deal. It's just that. I just push myself so hard, because I know that I've gone through worse, my body, my mind knows that I've gone through worse. Obviously, I need rest, but apart from those days, any day feels like, every day feels like I can conquer it significantly more. Really felt like I've modeled through so much dirt that any form of victory feels like heavenly, in a sense. I love that. Yeah, I love that. You know, I think, you know, as humans, I don't know, the way I see this is, like, God gifted us life. Very often, we don't appreciate what we have in front of us until shit hits the fan. Right? We go through day after day and we eat, and then we're like, alright, we have enough money, okay, we go to sleep next day. Do your thing, you know, enjoy the little things in life, but. But it's like, you know, I don't know if the saying was like, you don't really live life until, you know, you've gone through this kind of trauma, but. No, that's actually very true. But I think it is. I think it is. You know, for me, like, I went through a period of very dark, like, depression, and that reminded me that the time to be a good person and the time to be a positive person and the time to love everybody is right freaking now. 100% right? Really, really is. Especially because, personally, I. Okay, because every day, when, in the past, and now, I have had depressed episodes once and a while, the reasons for that is because, you know, in my situation, I always. I cannot help but think that my situation is so garbage and crap to the point where, why is it me? Like, people don't even understand what it means to have cancer, what it means to have your life, everything that you've worked for since young, to be bullied, to be ridiculed. I said everything, to almost peak because I was about to enter university, national service, peak, peak of like pop-off, get a degree, and work really hard. Just all come crashing down because of something that is so unlikely to happen. It was a 0.01% in the sense, and I got it. That's the thing. So, it was so unbelievably unlikely and sad. But, I got it, and the thing is, obviously, this depressive episode occurred because I believe, like, I don't deserve this, why am I doing this? There are moments where I just cannot help but feel sorry for myself even though I believe I want to keep pushing. However, once I've gone past that right, once you endure so much suffering and pain, which is ironic because I've heard this from Jordan Peterson, the pathway to lesser suffering is through more suffering, which is ironic, which is 100% right? You need to be willing to accept pain and suffering in the face, and once your body and mind has endured it and endured it, you are 100% more capable to do everything they want, with much more happiness, enjoyment, and overall just a lot more energy. Yes, really yes, because you appreciate it. I'm really excited about it. People do not understand things because they don't go through pain, and so pain is the obviously the number one teacher for a lot of things. It must be in everything. So you still go through episodes of like, I too don't really like the phrase, but it is a fact that sometimes we feel sorry for ourselves. Sometimes we go through episodes where we're like, it's that same old question, why is it me? Why is it me? Why is it now? Why is there no answer? Why God? Why? I know how that feels as well. But I think it's very real that you talk about going through it and yet day to day, purking yourself back up. I think maybe now is a good time to talk about this, but I think when it comes to breaking your way out of depression or going out of a dark phase, I think the common way of looking at it is life is happy, always good, and then life becomes shit. And then you be sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, and then you suddenly climb up. But that's not the way it goes. Usually it goes everything turns to shit, then you go small happy day, things turn to shit again. It's a constant up and down. It's not like, you know, it's not like you ten days of darkness, and then you rise, right? It's like, some days are good, some days are bad, some days are really, really good, some days are so bad that you think you're back to square one. But no, it's one step forward, you know, from that we build and we build, yeah, man. This is the thing, like a lot of people say success is never a straight line. That's true. I never ever, oh, once he's a rock bottom, he'll bounce right up. For some people, yes. For a majority of people know, because success and whatever happiness or whatever goal you want, just be happier and etc., right? It really requires one step at a time. It's never, it's never, it's never about being perfect once or twice. It's about being great every single time. Yeah, I think that's a good energy to think about it, yeah. Yeah, I love that. I love that. We've passed the one on our mark. I wanted to ask you like, what are the things that, that now you're excited about, you're passionate about. So overall, in my opinion, every day is, I don't really have much to be excited about nowadays, but because my peak of like competitions and everything might matter down, obviously, but things that I'm always. No, no, just a bit closer, a bit closer, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is good. Okay, thank you, thank you. Okay, great, great. So I think it's in terms of like, exciting things, nothing particularly because as I said before, more of my competitions have already mellowed in a sense. So like, I have no competitions looking forward to, but I'm very happy to just see my friends and my friends like day-to-day basis kind of thing. Because like, a lot of the time people, like I said, appreciation, so appreciation and of things around you, because more or less, I'm just happy to see my friends like their faces one more time, obviously. And just happy to see that they're smiling, they spend time with them, they spend time with me. I no longer require huge events. In fact, majority of the time I'm at my happiest when I'm just chilling in my room with my friends. But those are good days. Those are really good days, right? Really good days, right? I don't have to be a huge trip to the water park or something. And you can be. But the thing is, if you want to save money, spend all I need is time. And just time with you guys. More than that. So recently I learned about what joy was, right? So it's like, you know, like, what does joy mean exactly? And what I learned was that joy is two people connecting who are happy to be in the presence of each other. And that's joy. Definitely. And I think that that's so true. Do you have a strong group of like, guy friends or friends that you usually hang out with? Yeah, I do, I do. Because it was terribly like obviously just through my situation. I've gone definitely gotten a lot closer to those who I know that are deaf for me and those who aren't obviously because even though you think that you have let's say 50 or 60 friends, right? When you go to such intense hardship, I'm pretty sure like only those who actually willing to go out of their way to meet up with you. See you at your house or even like just say, how are you? Message you once in a while. Check out when you even as something as simple that really shows how important, how great, how valuable to certain friends are. And in my opinion, no quick. No quick shows. Definitely quick, yes. But the thing is, what's ironic is because there are certain, the people who don't ask for my, well, let's say, don't ask for how I'm out of anything, right? I don't consider them bad people at all. The reason is because these people are terribly busy with their lives. But not all my friends say that I'm terribly sorry coming to our view. I have my own personal episodes of depression, depression, my therapist, et cetera, et cetera. So I can't be the review. But I really am, I really feel terrible for a situation and I hope things get better. They, I will, can you meet up once or twice in my opinion? Or because you don't, they don't necessarily put up with like, they don't ask me constantly. Doesn't mean they're bad people. More or less they just have other commitments which I can simply cannot judge about. I can't just be all like, oh, you don't ask how I was during that time. You're automatically bad. Because they have their own stuff that might be right. I think it's good for people to understand that people, as much as people want to care about you, right? Self care matters the most at this point of time. Can I ask like, you know, now that you, that you're surviving cancer, you know, as we speak, now that you're surviving cancer, do you find that people find it easier to talk to you? Yes, definitely to a certain extent, they are more willing to open up because they understand that in my condition obviously is very hard for people to be all like, oh, how could you understand my pain even though because you never want to true it. But people are now more willing to talk to me, especially those who are more reserved. Regardless, regardless, because they understand that they, because people in general want to relate and speak to someone who understands why it's like not those who have been privileged in a sense. Because humans truly bond through suffering very well. That's true. That's the truth. So because of this, I'm able to speak and talk to my friends who, like, hell of mental issues and everything. I'm so happy to be there for them. That's all that. That's all that. It's tricky, you know, something which, I mean, if my podcast can do anything, you know, I wish insurance and all that stuff would cover mental health. You know, I think that this is like, I think right now the world is starting to understand mental health, you know, but I think that it is very important to draw the line between mental health and self-pity. You know, there's a difference between, I know I'm unwell and I would like to make a change and I need help. You know, versus, yeah, I just kind of be bothered, you know, I just want to chill every day and do nothing and I'm just going to be lazy, you know, it's very difficult to draw the line. You know, but at the same time, I think mental health is really a thing, you know, and and it's not wrong to ask for help as well. You know, I think what makes you so like valuable, I see so much power in what you do is the ability to be vulnerable. You know, you're like, look, I'm like an open book if you want to talk about, you know, the things in my life, sure, I'll let you know what happened to me, you know. I mean, it's not easy to talk about it. I mean, it's a testicular thing, you know, to begin with, you know, but for you to say that so openly, you know, and be able to convert something that is, I think extremely powerful. I think just now you were mentioning something about like people that even go through stuff about like image, you were saying. Yeah. So how does that part? Because I really, the reason why people, they're kind of like correlates to like people who are comfortable to talk to me. Because I always have, and not not envy, I always have such great amount of respect for those who do and put in effort for what they like. For example, people who are born with certain disabilities, example, a lot of my friends are born, some are friends are born with a list. So sometimes they speak and they can't be understood very well. Some people are just naturally very, very shy, very, very introverted, then they don't have difficulty making friends, even though they really want to. Even something as simple as, okay, it can range from disabilities to something as simple as unattractiveness, how your face is shaped and everything. Because a lot of my friends are very attractive, but a lot of my other friends, in my opinion, they look great. But I think if they don't have that in them, they're confident in them, even though, because they compare themselves to like the top 1% of the world, in my opinion. That's the biggest threat. That doesn't matter. Yeah, that's the thing. These people are unattractive, they believe themselves to be unattractive anyway, or they believe that their life is over because they are born with something they have no control of. But obviously, I think that is very important for us to understand that, okay, it's true that we are born all differently, some more privileged than others, some not. Sure. And I have a number of female friends, actually, who are terribly, who are born with such fantastic looks, that a lot, they get almost anything they want. And I wish this was an understanding, I really wish this was an understanding, but judging by that day to day basis, right? The guys would pay for everything, they would give them on great dates and everything. And I do not, and I had an instance where my, this particular, not really a friend of mine anymore, she managed to enter NTU all because of a connection because she was attractive. It really angered me and my friends because we worked so hard for everything. Yeah, so that's yeah, you know, yeah, like, cut me off if I'm, if I'm digressing too much, but you bring up an interesting point. You know, and I do think that this is a legit thing, you know, this is something that, I mean, this, this goes into gender as well, right? Yeah, you know, like, we're like walking on tightrope right now, right? It's like, so I recently heard about this thing spoken off, right? That like, yes, there are attractive women that get away with certain things. So, you know, I can do whatever they want because they feel like, you know, I'm attractive, you know, whatever I want to use my looks to my advantage. Yes, having said that there is a lifespan to this. You are not going to be attractive, plus the certain age, right? Like they say like women, men age, like wine and women age, like milk friends, you know? And it's like, you know, and that's the other thing, right? A lot of times, females, they are looks very important to them. Whereas with a guy, in order to find a suitable partner, looks are not always the number one thing, right? You're like, how can you provide it? You know, what sort of, are you a good listener? You know, there's so many things, what sort of emotion, what sort of, do you give sense of security to the lady? You know, there's so much, but having said that, I think men are very visual creatures, you know, and we're out there because when a lady's attractive, a lady's attractive, you know, and guys like, you don't want to do that, you know? But like the fact of the matter is that if somebody actually steps on your foot and it's some like burly dude, you probably won't be as gracious as like some really pretty lady. I'm so sorry. Oh, that's perfectly fine. You know, step for my foot again, you know what I mean? For me, personally, you know, there's a hierarchy of what you look for in a man, like a partner, looks, money, etc. For me personally, obviously physical attractiveness is the last, because you understand this concept of the moment, even if someone doesn't seem very attractive to you at first, you know the person, you get to know the person right? Yeah, physical attractiveness, skyrocket, it's really fascinating. Yes, yes, I agree. And I mean, that's the difference between Nike and someone who's like, you just see, you know, first of all, like a bright fireworks. So my okay, let me see, I'm going to talk about this. Okay. Okay, somebody who I know owns an establishment, okay, fuck it. I'll just say my brother owns a hotel, you know, and very often there are girls that go to his hotel. I mean, it's just not just my brother's hotel, but hotels everywhere, right? You get these like rich influencer girls that come in and they're like chilling and living their life and whatnot. And I think very often, right? On social media, they look like they're having so much fun, you know, but how empty is it, you know, that's something that we would never know. You know, I think very often we're like, oh man, this person gets away with so much, you know, they're beautiful whatnot, you know. And then we see that flip side of like, oh, shit, they're lonely. And it's almost like, imagine if you signed up for Taekwondo, and tomorrow you got a black belt. Your black belt wouldn't mean shit to you. It's like, it's nothing, you know, but if you grind for like five years, the black belt, you know, it means something. So the object is the same, but the journey you've gone through to attain it is different. Definitely, people always say the journey is the most important thing. Destination is definitely important, but what did you do to get to what you are? Yes, yes. Well, I hope you find someone who looks as not the priority, but then you ended up with someone who like, if I may bias say with my wife, like, I'm not, I think because I was from entertainment previously, right? You see people who, the public perceives is attractive all the time until it's like, I kind of get numb to it, you know, and then you look for other qualities, right? And you're like, you know, what really makes a person? And then this, and then, and then I end up with my wife, who's I, who I think is a great person. And I think she's pretty good. Yeah, but I think, I think, you know, that, that topic in itself is, it's very loaded, right? There's a lot of things to talk about, but I think the point that you're making about, you know, being teaching people how to deal with situations, right? Or like, the point that you are making is like, you want to be there and help people who help people maximize what they're born with. So whatever the situation is, you know, how do you deal with it and make it a strong point, not let it weaken you, but how do you rise above that? Especially because someone like me who is, okay, this may sound entitled, but like someone like me who has gone through quite often quite a bit and someone who in my opinion, I don't believe I'm very attractive as well. But the thing is, I think some ladies might disagree about going on this. But the thing is that I understand how it's like to be born with something that you're not, you're not happy with or something that you have absolutely no control whatsoever. But the thing is, it is what's important, what's important is to maximize every opportunity to make it so better. For example, I believe my physical appearances aren't good, so what I do, I go to the gym, I look physically a little bit better, I become stronger, I can be able to stand out for myself. I was weak, I trained to be strong, I'm in a sense, no matter what-- You're better in yourself. I'm always bearing myself every single day, and what I really like is that there are a lot of people who, no matter how slow they're going, I can see in their eyes, they are trying so hard, sweat, dripping, constantly. Even though they're awake, somebody says, "Oh, it's such a light weight, why are you cheering for him?" He's doing it with proper form, every single rep is one step closer to greatness. And that is such a fantastic thing to say, because it was like I said, it's not about a journey, not necessarily about a destination. Someone may be a big massive guy who has, I don't know how many years of training, but the thing is, if he's such an asshole about it and everything, I prefer the skinny guy who is always trying the best, and I never have a sense of like, you go in a sense where it's like, "Oh, I'm happy who I am, I always strive to be one step better, one step closer." That's true. You don't see him on right, obviously. A bodybuilder guy? Even though he's a three times world champion, he always humble himself so much, which is really fantastic, because this really puts into a perspective that you can always do better or be better in my opinion. That's where we are always building ourselves up, in a sense. Yeah, I love that. I think the ability, like from hearing you, I think you gain a lot of joy from seeing other people succeed. And I think that that is something that for me, I only learn to do later on in life. Because as a young guy, I see everyone as competition. I find it very hard to be happy for somebody else's success. But as I get older and I'm mature, I'm more happy when I see people succeed. I'm excited for that guy. He's doing well. He might be my competitor, but I'm excited for him. Do I lose the competitive edge? No, I'm still going to compete to put my life on the line. But I am able to be happy for that person. Hey, I'm just because we're quite a bit over an hour now, and you probably need to go and eat. And I need to eat and stuff, but I wanted to ask you, right? Just now you were talking about family and the difficulties there. I wonder, and just sharing. I wonder if the new journey that you're going to go on after you've discovered something and you're at this really amazing height of maturity. I wonder if another layer that will soon come is a layer of forgiveness. Ah, yes. You know where you-- That is what-- You've hit it right on the nail because that is my current struggle in terms of, where I won't say I take my maturity to the next level, but understanding the concept of forgiveness, because I have been-- I won't say wronged a lot in my life, but I've definitely been treated quite unfairly, obviously. My parents, my father was not the best role model. My sister wasn't either. And my mom tends to be very aggressive once in a while. So there's the thing. The concept of forgiveness is so difficult because you need to realize that even though they have done terrible things to you, you must learn to push it by past it. But it's difficult for me because in my opinion, the treatment of how I was treated, how I was born raised, really affected my potential. Because I really believed I could have achieved a lot more. Because I honestly believed that if I was in Taekwondo much earlier, and letting me, they let me to Taekwondo in like five or six, I would be like-- I wouldn't say like-- I wouldn't say national level, but at least, much more competent and at a more satisfactory level of performance, or why did they restrict me so much? Because in the past, as well, I could not have terrible social anxiety. That is that is a fact. Because I could not go out. I could not do anything apart from just be at home, study, go for school kind of thing. So that's the thing. Concept of forgiveness is so difficult for me because I truly believe I wasn't necessarily robbed, but I was limited so much because-- and I felt so much-- so many intensive motions of anger, hatred, sadness, depression, all because of how I was raised, all because the person that was supposed to bring me up, tore me down constantly. So, learning to forgive someone like that is a journey that I have netted. It would take probably like near a lifetime for me to fully let us engage. I've definitely gotten better at forgiving people, because in the past, I always say, "Oh, we've done such a petty thing to me. I will not forgive you again." But the thing is, now, I believe I reached a point where I can start forgiving people more often, because I realized that hatred is extremely tiring. -Hatred, pain, as well as all these things, right? They technically shaped me to quiet today, so just at least the minimum I can be grateful for, in a sense. -Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think, yeah, so something that changed the perspective between my parents and I. So I actually have a pretty tricky relationship with my parents growing up. I wasn't able to connect with them very well. One month ago, I went to Okinawa with my wife, so it was my mom, my dad, my brother, my wife, and I. Best family holiday in my life. And love my family so much. -That's lovely. -But in order to get to that stage, we all went through lots of ups and downs. And I think the phrase, the concept that really helped me understand things from my parents' perspective is that they did what they knew was best at that point. And an example is like, if I look at the "me" today and I look at the "me" of the past, I am embarrassed about the "me" of the past. I'm like, "Shit, I should have been a better person." But I think likewise, our parents also hold a lot of that. They're like, "Ah, damn, I wish I could have been a better parent." But I think also being in the Asian culture, it's very rare that our parents will come up to us and say, "Hey, I'm so sorry for you." Apologizing was, "Oh, my 21 years, my father never apologized once." But I wonder if on the flip side, he was also very disappointed and embarrassed by himself. And you know, very often, our parents would tell us like, "When you become better, not that you understand, but it's freaking true." Because so my wife and I've shared this on the podcast before, but we went through a miscarriage. If it wasn't for the miscarriage, we would have had a baby by now. I'm terribly sorry. Oh, that's so good. This is another learning journey as well, you know. But the way I see it is like, if I had a child today, right? I guarantee you that the parent that I am is not perfect. And how can I expect that my parents, when they gave birth to me, was about the same age. How could they have been perfect? They did the best in their ability. And they were probably going through lots of hard stuff as well. But I think this is a really positive thing, because forgiveness is always a journey. And it's really nice to hear that you're aware of it. When you're like, "Oh, you hit the nail on the head." It was like, "You were aware that this is the next journey that you're going to go through." I think that's so much fun. Yeah, man. Hey, thanks so much for the whole chat today. I learned freaking so much, man. And this is the first podcast I had to sit water to hold down emotions. But thank you, man. That was such a journey. This really felt quite surreal to me. Thank you so much, Eden. I really appreciate the time and inviting you here. I'm lost for words, really. What a pleasure, man. I will share this with you when it comes out. And yeah, I hope it goes out to people. I hope it really perks people up. They can listen to this while they're journey and all that. And yeah, hoping that lives are going to be better, man. Let's catch another drink as well. 100%. Sounds good. Thanks for listening, guys. Have a good day.