#36 Dan & Nat Urquhart | Is Your Influence Growing or Shrinking?

Speaker 1 I didn't want to look like a fool more than I wanted to be honest. Yeah. And so there was a time where I something happened at work and I was confronted by the boss. How did this happen? And I'm like, I don't know. And I knew very well what happened. Right. Hello, Natty. Speaker 2 Hey, how you going? Speaker 1 How are you? Good. We're going to talk about influence today. What a cool subject. Speaker 2 It is great. Speaker 1 Yeah. So when we think about influence, we're thinking about being able to influence outcomes within our organisation, which is what it's all about really isn't. Speaker 2 It it is it is. Speaker 1 But it's also one of the hardest things we do. It's like as a business owner or a high level leader or even a team member, your ability, ability to be able to influence outcomes is what your job is. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's right. That's it. Speaker 1 But here's here's the thought. If you don't have influence, you won't be able to have influence outcomes. Yeah, influence is a commodity, isn't it? And so our influence as team members, as high level leaders and as business owners is either growing or it's shrinking depending on the way we turn up every day, the way we think, the way we speak, the way we interact, deal with problems. We're going to dig right into that today. Ain't that? Speaker 2 Yeah, no, it's a, it's a great topic and it's, it's one of the first that you actually start with in our programme. Yeah, because it is a major and very important thing to understand your influence. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's it. We've got a couple of concepts just to get ahead around this thought of influence. The first one is, is that essentially whether or not you're a business owner? So you've just put everything that you have on the line for your business like most business owners do and what's on the line, OK, so it's generally finance because they've bought in or invested or done a fit out or something. There's been a massive investment. Your reputation's on the line, your cash flow and your profits beyond that as on the line, your ability to be able to perform the outcome of your business, all of that stuff plus much, much more. Your marriage is generally put on hold or thereabouts. You don't see your family as much friends. All that changes your whole life. And what we need to understand is that essentially when you step into that, into that role as a business owner, high level leader, your success is in the hands of others IT. Speaker 2 Is. Yeah. It's pretty scary really, isn't it? It is. Speaker 1 So if you're, if you're say you know a Tyler or you know an accountant that just does accounts, just you, you know that's, that's you can have a business, a sole trader, you can be a company, doesn't matter. But essentially, you know your, your workload is the only thing that dictates your success. As soon as you put a team member on, you're influencing outcomes for others. And not only that, obviously even if you work on your own, you've got to rely on professional services and all those people around you to be able to do your job well. That's it. And so always trying to influence outcomes for other people, our success is always in the hands of others. And of course, as our team grows, that's even more true. And So what ends up happening is we have to see ourselves differently. We have to turn up in our businesses differently. Wherever you're, again, you're a business owner, a high level leader within that business or even you're a team member, you will not be able to influence outcomes if you don't have influence. So again, we're going to talk today about about how to grow our influence and what it looks like for influence to shrink. Yeah, it sounds. So what's our experience with Influence Netta? Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. When you get into business, sometimes you, you just, you're bringing a certain mindset, yeah, into the business and, and you're working in a role. And so you're doing the role, you're working in that. But you, you do see the big picture, but sometimes you actually, you probably don't pay enough attention to what needs to be happening. And so you're so focused on what you're doing that you forget in a sense that your leadership, your influence matters to the rest of the team to get the desired outcomes that you need. Speaker 1 Here's a quote I prepared earlier. All right. So leadership is influence influencing people and outcomes towards desired results. So that's what we would say influence is. It's leadership essentially is being able to perform outcomes. Really. I mean, what are we leading people to? What are we leading people to do? And whether or not you're a business owner, a high level leader, A-Team member, if you don't have the commodity of influence, yeah, you won't be able to influence outcomes. And that makes you a victim circumstance. And that's a horror show, you know. And so really what we we're talking about is leadership at whatever level across that spectrum, business owner, high level leader and team member, we need to be influencing outcomes. But really influences just our ability to be able to influence people and outcomes towards desired results. That's that's what influences. Yeah, yeah. Now here's the definition of influence. It's the capacity to have an effect on the character development or behaviour of someone or something. It is the power to cause change without force. Yeah. And if you, let's just think about team members for a second. If you're in a team and you, you aren't solving problems, you're bringing more problems to the table and solving them. You're grumpy, you're irritable. People don't know if they can trust you. Are you going to be able to influence outcomes in amongst that team? Speaker 2 You would have less influence. Speaker 1 Definitely less influence with you. All right, now let's think about it from a business owner and you're all those things. You, your head's down in workload. You're a beautiful human being, just like the team member, except you're that busy that you fried at the edges. You're a bit irritable. You're not giving direction to the team, you're not getting the results you want. So that makes you even more anxious and irritable. Are you when when you think about the team dynamic, are you able to influence outcomes? Speaker 2 I think the team would step up just to do what they know they've got to do. But the byproduct of that would be, you know, burnt feeling, burnt out, You know, the team being burnt out, the, you know, discouraged, all of those sort of things. Disconnected. Yeah. Speaker 1 Not sure what what the goals. Speaker 2 Are and it's and it's short term. They could only do that short term. There's no longevity in that. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Well, that's a really good point. Part of part of influence and being able to influence outcomes is, is whatever the desired results are. And any business owners desired result is to have a team that sticks around and performs. You know, we would call that a performance driven team, yes, Yeah. But that doesn't happen by chance. Doesn't. Speaker 2 It doesn't. No, not at. Speaker 1 All so one of the things he talked about mindset, which is so cool because one thing that a leader needs to do when they step into that business role, that leadership role, yeah, is think how am I going to influence outcomes through people because my success is now in the hands of all of these people. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's right. Speaker 1 Yeah. And if you go into let's, let's talk about 1 mindset, if you will, because today I think let's break it down like this. We're going to say that your influence increases and decreases depending on your mindset, your style and your traits. Yeah. Yeah. As a leader. Yeah. And so let's think about 1 mindset. You've mentioned it before, Work and mindset. Yeah. You step into a business. You started the business because you're good at what you did. Yes. And you just get stuck in workload. Yeah. What does that look like, Nana? Speaker 2 Yeah, just so concentrated on just getting the job done day to day, not having the time to step outside and look at the big picture and actually plan for the future, plan for the team. And yeah, you sort of just, you may have a a future goal, but you're so caught up in just doing the day to day, you know, Yeah, that you're not thinking about all things. Speaker 1 I love it. Yeah, because the workers mindset doesn't really solve problems, do they? Speaker 2 No, they just put the just getting it done. Speaker 1 They just RIP in. You know, there's a really cool book we talk about a lot. It's called Upstream. It talks about upstream thinking, not just putting the fire out, but going upstream and and finding the 'cause you know, that takes a special type of mindset, time management, doesn't it? You know? Yeah. So leaders, it's like when we get into our business, it's really uncomfortable. I think you might have mentioned this last time when we talked about identity. You know, you're actually got to shift your identity because you're no longer a builder of things. You're no longer a builder like we were. Essentially, you're no longer an accountant, You're no longer a, you know, a real estate agent. You, you are a team builder. You're a leader of people. You now need to get, you need to grow your influence. So let's go back to this quote again. The capacity to have an effect on the character. The development. Speaker 2 Yeah, wow. Speaker 1 Or the behaviour or someone or something. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 So influence is about people. Speaker 2 It's a great definition, isn't? Speaker 1 It it is it's your ability to have an effect on the character. Yeah, which let's talk about character for a second. Character is how people perform and behave while you're not watching. How funny is? Speaker 2 That, yeah, yeah, for sure. Speaker 1 When we think about what it is we struggle with as leaders so much, it's it's being able to trust our team to know are they going to turn up for us? And yet that's our job. Speaker 2 Yeah, let's see it. Yeah, it starts with us. Speaker 1 Our job as a leader, yeah, is not to just grind out the workload, no, it's to make sure that we're having an effect on the character, on the behaviour of the performance of the people in our organisation. Speaker 2 Yeah. So first understanding our identity in what we're actually doing, yeah, you know who we are first. And then in the role that we hold and then influencing, you know, stepping up and influencing the outcome. Yeah, it's. Speaker 1 So cool, isn't it? And So what we're, we're a little bit removed from the direct influence over a task. That's why we don't do it, because we want to be directly over the task. Yeah. So we can be sure it gets done. But if a leader of influence, an influential leader, says no, no, I've got to develop this person so they can be over the task. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Speaker 1 And I need them to turn up. And we we would talk, we would talk about it like this. Our whole programme is built off the back of what this looks like day to day. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's right. Actually like it. Yeah, it a short definition of hand, head, heart is influence. That's it. You know, influencing and empowering leaders to empower those they lead, empowering your team to do the work that they need to do. Speaker 1 That's right. Explain to our listeners what Hand at Heart means. Speaker 2 Hand head heart is is what we call our programme, but it also stands for hand is skill set, so training people in skill set. Yep, head is mindset, so training people in how they think, any roadblocks that they come across, you know what they get stuck on? Resilience. Resilience. And then heart is character. So we're developing people, hand, head, heart, the holistic person. Speaker 1 That's right, the whole person. Speaker 2 Yeah, influencing them, the holistic person and influence, I think sometimes can have, you know, I suppose be seen as a negative as well, you know, a manipulative influence being manipulative, you know, and that's not good. We don't want to influence people for the wrong. But influence in a positive sense, empowering leaders and empowering your team is a beautiful thing. Yeah. And it's not just the job of a leader. It's actually a responsibility of every person on the on the team. Speaker 1 Yeah, I love that nano because that's that's that's got to be defined, hasn't. Speaker 2 It it does. Speaker 1 Yeah, we this is not about manipulation. It's not about coercion. I love this last bit. It says, it says it's the power to cause change without force. Yeah, yeah. You know, this is the this is the truth about influence. And This is why we're talking about today and why it's so important. Your influence, depending on how you turn up in your business as a business owner, high level leader, or even a team member, it's really important to know this is about team members as well. Yes, here's the truth. People only follow you and work with you for as long as they want to. Sooner or later, like you said before, they'll take the hits. Yep, they'll take the the run. They'll do what that takes up and to a point where they look around and go why I'm actually doing this. And if they don't feel like they've got support, backing, training, development, if they don't feel like there's a purpose, yeah, they will opt out. And we see that more and more these days. High staff turnover can happen for a lot of reasons, but that was one of the things that was happening in their business, wasn't. Speaker 2 It it was. Speaker 1 I couldn't influence the outcomes of being able to build a team because people are leaving all the time now. I could blame the team members as much as I want. That was on me, the leader. I wasn't developing their character. I wasn't developing their skill set, their mindset and their character, the holistic person. Yeah. You know, so we go into into these opportunities, business opportunities, just hoping that team will turn up. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's. Speaker 1 It but we don't influence. Speaker 2 It, yeah. And organically sometimes that can happen. We can, but not in all organisations. And then, you know, as you said, the sustainability of organic verse being deliberate. Yeah, in that, yeah, it's huge. Speaker 1 Yeah, well, that's, that's a really, really good point. It's like our culture is how we do what we do. And. And we would say that your strongest influence, the strongest influence in your organisation is shaping your culture. Yeah. And if that's not you, someone shaping it for you. And, and let's think about culture for a second. Culture is how you do what you do. Yeah. Who's shaping how you do what you do again. So we're thinking about the development of the people. Yes, the character development of the people behaviour, the performance, the outcomes, not manipulation, training and development based on trust, Yeah, based on unity, based on accountability, you know, but we're also shaping the culture because as we shape the way we do things everyday as individuals, that then speaks to the people that come into contact of their business. Yeah. And then it it it's like, OK, well, I'm, we are now known as a quality business. Yes. Or we are known as inconsistent. Yeah. Or we are known as really friendly and efficient. Or we are known as really short, sharp and inefficient and untrustworthy. Or what would be another word, unreliable. Yeah, yeah. And all of that happens when people are beautiful humans, but they just haven't learnt to get to work together as a team. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. And as, as you said before, culture, it's, you know, who we are, it's how we do what we do. And so that encompasses, you know, system and process and, and just day to day task in a sense. And so influencing how we do that, having a system, having a process, this is how we do things. That's also influencing the desired outcome, because this is how we act here in our business, you know, and this is how we do things. That's right. So it has that central point that you can actually bring people back to when you're influencing an outcome. It's not just people, but it's an outcome. And and that might be internal to your company, might be external to your company in a sense, but it's that central point of return in a sense, yeah. Speaker 1 Being a foundation, a foundation, you, you nail it. It's like this is the way we do things around here. Yeah. This is the way we communicate. Yes. This is what success looks like. Yeah. This is what the process is. This is what accountability looks like. And so we've defined everything. Yeah. And so, and, and the thought around that is, is that cultures need to be forged, not let to naturally evolve. Because if, if cultures naturally evolve. So again, what is a culture? It's how we do things around here. If how we do things around here naturally evolves, it can naturally devolve. So in other words, if you've got a couple of good people by chance, what happens when one wants to move back to Queensland and one wants to move to Victoria, and then all of a sudden the people that were holding it all together are gone? Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 And and it's like, how do we say one of the most fascinating sporting stories, in our modern time at least, is the Penrith Panthers? They decided on the back of potential bankruptcy that they were going to do it different that they were going to. They created what they call a Project 2015 document and and it became their process for everything success. And they, they say things like, we don't know where we'd be if we hadn't created that document. So they got super deliberate about what the culture was going to look like, what the standards were, what success looked like, how the team was going to be trained and developed, and then what? What do we see? 2000? They get in their first grand final, then they're in four in a row and win them all. I think last year they just missed out by one game and they're in the hunt again now. That's amazing. And it's all off the back of what you just said. Just a deliberately forged culture. Yeah. Not manipulative, not harsh, not critical, Just deliberate. Speaker 2 Influence. Speaker 1 Influence. Influencing outcomes. Yeah. If you let things naturally evolve, they can naturally devolve. Yeah. We need to know how the grass is growing under our feet. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's. Speaker 1 Right. And it's true of business owners, high level leaders within that business and team members. If we're not all singing off the same song sheet, if we haven't got a game plan to follow, we're going to even good people just naturally do whatever they feel is right. You know, they'll say, oh, this is how I think I communicate, this is how I think I turn up, this is how I think, what I think success looks like. And we have diversion and not unification. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. No, exactly. That's crazy. Speaker 1 So who's responsible again, that are for making sure there's unity and unification. Speaker 2 Starts with us, a leader. Speaker 1 Starts with a leader. Speaker 2 And every individual person on the team, we used to say to our beautiful receptionist, you know, who was only young at the time, just entering the world of workforce and office and, and everything that comes along with that, the politics of office and and, you know, sort of trying to understand relationships within a a working environment verse personal, all of that. And yeah, and just really instilling into her that she is a leader, that she can influence outcomes. So clients that walk into the door, how how does she set the atmosphere, you know, influencing their customer service experience? How does she interact with her Co workers? How can she help them move them along accountability without, you know, the positional sort of accountability, but just to influence, you know, if something's road blocking her task that she needs to complete, how does she move through that? How does she influence that outcome without ruining a relationship with one of her Co workers? You know, so it's, it's the responsibility of everyone from the receptionist on the front door to senior level management. Speaker 1 So, so important. Yeah. And your influence is either growing, yes, or shrinking, yes, depending on how you turn up. Yeah. And so we've talked about mindset, the mindset of a leader. So that's going to shape everything, isn't it? Now let's talk about your style as a leader. Yeah, business owner, high level leader, team member. Let's pick on one style. Natty, what do you reckon, what's, what's the style that will either increase or decrease your influence depending on how you interact with team members, clients, all that sort of stuff. Speaker 2 You know, there's positive and negative styles, of course. And you know, we love trying to be positive. So influence driven. Yeah, style with that mindset, I don't know if it explains it in the context of what it is, but if you go in using a style of influence, you're more likely to grow your influence, get the desired outcome, you know, and achieve the results that you need to achieve verse a negative style like control majority of the time. So you talk about it like a Golf Club and there's multiple styles that you can use and you're pulling out a golf stick for that particular situation. And of course, each situation requires a different style of leadership and a different style of, you know what you need for that situation. Sometimes when you're on a deadline, you need a control driven leadership style because you need to be delegating or you need to be, you know, just taking control of the situation. But if you like lead like that 90% of the time again, it'll burn your team out. People will feel disgruntled. I can't stay here. He's a ogre, whatever, whatever, you know. But if you have an influence style to lead with, you know you're going to have that positive output by your team. Yeah, because they're in a positive environment, you know, they're, they're being empowered to influence the outcomes of of their role. Speaker 1 Great. So you're so this, this, this turns up looking like a leader that says, what do you think? How would you go about? Speaker 2 Collaborative. Speaker 1 Let's do a training, some training and development on that, you know, regular encouragement but also regular communication. You know, it's like that our team knows where they're up to. They feel empowered. Yeah, you know we're. Speaker 2 They're being given the resources, the tips and tricks that everything to do their role that's good they've been empowered to do. Speaker 1 That's good and. Speaker 2 Skill set, mindset, character. Speaker 1 That's it And and you've mentioned process and system before, you know, it's the leader saying, hey, look, we've got a system and process and carry the weight of this, you know, or we're just relying on good memories. Yeah. And, you know, and good people, yeah, always use the example of the cafe. You know, there's, you know, like a cafe owner who's just an amazing person. And the reason they got into the business is because they're so good at what they do. But they're at the back just cooking because that's what they're good at. And then there's ten other people on the floor. The coffee's inconsistent. The service is inconsistent. The timing is inconsistent. It's not because the business owner is not amazing and not a really nice person. It's because they haven't influenced outcomes through the team. They haven't understood the power of influence and so system and process. How do we make coffee? What does good coffee taste like? What does good service look like? How long should it take to get to the table? You mean our businesses are really just little factories, aren't they? Of people? System, process, role and responsibility. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Let's see it. Speaker 1 Yeah, and someone needs to head that up. And so I love you the thought, you know, you've just used 2. There's many, isn't there, styles of leadership. And So what you've said is, OK, well, if you an influence driven leader, you're more likely to want to work through people. Yeah, for their betterment and for the betterment of the organisation. Yeah. If you're a control driven leader, you're more likely just to say, all right, get out of my way. This is what we're doing. Speaker 2 Yes, yeah. And there's different seasons in business as well not and not everyone's at the same, you know year one year 2310, you know in business. And so you, we understand that when there's one to three, when you're foundational in your business, you're probably going to be doing a lot of the work yourself. You're setting up systems, you're setting up process. And so a lot of it is control driven because you're setting it up from what's in here to have that central point that your whole team can come back to. But when you get further down the track, you wanna start to build your team. Speaker 1 Yeah, great. You know, yeah, it's about, it's about the season you're in and the trajectory. Yes, that you that you are. Speaker 2 In the situation, what cause? Speaker 1 That's right where you're heading. Yeah, not so much about now. It's what your business gonna look like in six months. Speaker 2 At all. Yeah, that's right. Speaker 1 And people of influence understand that, don't they? No, no, they do. Like the farmer knows that if he wants to harvest, he's gotta sow seed. Yes. So what seed are we sowing into our business? Everyday we turn up, we're sowing seed. Yeah, that's good. And that seed is in increasing our influence or decreasing it. A business owner, high level leader, and a team member with low influence will find it hard to influence outcomes. There'll be inconsistencies. Leaders, business owners and team members with high influence have generally high trust. People want to stick around. Life never rolls out the red carpet, but it's more of a team atmosphere. We understand how we communicate around here, how we do things. This is a system, this is a process, is what winning looks like, and we start to move together collectively as a group because we've defined what things look like. We're trying to influence outcomes together. We're not acting as individuals. We talk about it a bit here like this and it's not new for I didn't make this up, but it's such a great way of thinking about it. Let's assume that everybody that's listening has a team of champions. And I would say that we have always had a team of champions. Like everybody that's worked for us has brought their own unique gifting. And and you know, you know, we at at times, I think that we didn't bring that out on them, which which wasn't good for them or us, but they're amazing people nonetheless. But we haven't always had a champion team. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah, so team of champions, champion team, there's a massive difference there. Speaker 2 Definitely is, yeah. And I think part of that too, for us was were the right people on the bus? Yeah. Were they in their rightful position and role? Probably not some, you know, And so that can hinder that champion person, you know, to like sorry, sorry, you know, like a champion team coming together because they're not in their their rightful function. Speaker 1 That's right. And we weren't training and developing. No. So we we'd be, we'd be like the coach who goes on Monday morning. Oh, good game, guys. Oh, yesterday. That was amazing. This is who we're playing this week. Yeah. All right, so here's the game plan. I'll see you guys on Saturday. It's going to be amazing. Can't wait, you know, that's what it's like and the the team goes, oh, what are you doing? It's oh, well, I'm busy. I already I ought to set up next week's game plan for you. That's what you do We we get that buried into workload and solving problems, putting out fires that we don't train and develop our team, you know, and if the question is, is it if we don't, who will? Because every day we're trying to under, we're trying to influence outcomes. So if you think about a sporting team, every moment in the game counts. It's the little wins, it's the little things that you do, it's the training and development the week before that actually wins your. Speaker 2 Game, yeah, that's right. And. Speaker 1 That's how a team is meant to turn. Speaker 2 On yeah, that's so good, yeah. And I think towards like, you know, well, we talk about the first five years of business being the hardest and, and non deliberate, Yeah. And then from, you know, year 6 onwards, we started getting deliberate. We had a mission, vision, core values set. We didn't know where we were heading before that, you know, and we started being deliberate about training our team, Yeah. And influencing outcome. And so from there, I believe we're starting to build a champion team. Yes. You know, and did we get it perfect? No, but we were deliberate about it and we we saw our team rise to the occasion. And so, you know, I think though what you were talking about, you know, here's the the game plan. We'll see you next Saturday. What not we, we actually started training day to day, you know, for that, you know, so having huddle was a little morning catch up, you know, where each person knew in each role what their positions were and what they were achieving for the day. Speaker 1 Yeah, well, that's what our programme does, doesn't it? Gives people a game plan on how to be a capacity driven leader. Yeah, a performance driven team and and a culture driven identity, identity driven culture. It's like, how do we get up for game day? Yeah, you know what's winning look like, you know. And so, yeah, it's so important and you're right. Once we started training and developing our team, once we started to invest in the commodity of influence, yes, and not only that, helping everybody in our team understand the power of influence. MMM, every visit metric turned around. Speaker 2 That's him. Speaker 1 You know, and we started to see success. We started to see consistency, Yeah. Stuff turnover dropped off. You know, every business metric you can think of started to improve. Yeah. And it was a by product, though wasn't. Speaker 2 It was a by product. Speaker 1 Yeah, none of us working harder or being amazing. It was us being able to unify the team and start to win outcomes as a team. Yeah, so important. All right, so we've talked about the commodity of influence. Influence is your ability to to influence outcomes through people. It's not manipulation, it's actually it's the role of a leader. It's to develop and to care about the people that you're working with and who work with you, business owner, high level leader and team members. So we've talked about what increases that influence is the way you turn up mindset, the way you turn up as your styles as a leader, as even a team member. And what about traits? There's a couple of traits that we speak about in our programme and there's so many isn't. Speaker 2 There there is but. Speaker 1 What is a trait natty? What is a What is? What is a trait, mindset, styles and traits and why is it important? Speaker 2 Well, it's definitely important because it's like, how do you show up? So are you competent to do the role that you've been employed to do or are you incompetent? If you are incompetent in your role, you will shrink your influence. Yeah. Good. So by training hand, head, heart, you're training skill set, you're training any roadblock. So your mindset and you're training character. But if you're continually incompetent for the role that you've been asked to do or the tasks that you've been asked to do, you will shrink your influence. Yeah. Speaker 1 People. Speaker 2 Know, don't they? That's exactly right. So that's one of them is competence and incompetence. So I don't know really how to define the trait, but that's a bit of an example of one. Yeah. And we've certainly, I think we've all been through it ourselves. You know, you do learn as you go. So you don't you don't just jump on a team and you've got it all down pat. There is that learning time frame in season, but the one of the biggest things I don't know if I mentioned this last time in Identity is faking it to make not a fan of that. I'd rather just you put your hand up. You say I own this, I'm not skilled in this area. Please teach me. That's good. And if you've got a beautiful mindset and heart for learning, you will become competent in your role. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. You should never feel threatened. Speaker 2 Us not at all, no, that's. Speaker 1 Because people can see it. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I know that different situations, different environments, different working, you know, that they may not feel safe to actually do that. So that's got to be built. Trust has got to be built. Yeah, but definitely if you have a trusted environment, that is the best way, I reckon. Just pop your hand up. Speaker 1 Yeah, you got to build trust, you got to your influence will grow, you build trust. That's right. It's a really good example you use. So traits are pretty much the way you act. So let's think about it this way. So the way a leader, the way a leader thinks, yes, that's mindset. The way that's the mindset of a leader, if you will. The way a leader leads is your style. And you've said like it's like a Golf Club. And then the way a leader acts, that's a trait. And so you can't get away from that thought, whoever you're the business owner, the high level leader of the team member, if you aren't doing your job well, everybody can see it. Speaker 2 That's right. Speaker 1 And here's the thing, though. Incompetence isn't making a mistake. No, it's not making even a couple. It's consistently making them and covering them up. Yeah. Pretending it's not there, not putting your hand up. Yeah. Isn't it not taking accountability? Yeah. You know, what happens when we do that is that everybody can see it, and we lose trust and the commodity of influence. Yeah. When we don't just put our hands up and own it, you know, it's super hard to achieve consistent outcomes as a team member. Yeah. High level leader and a business owner. You might even say it's nearly impossible. Yeah. And it's certainly impossible to not make a mistake. You're always going to make it. Here's something that happened in my early career. So I hated making mistakes, and I had to look like an idiot because I've made that mistake. But that was an insecurity of mine. So essentially, really at the end of the day, I just didn't like anybody thinking poorly of me. Well, that's not what influence is about. You're going to make mistakes, you're going to look silly sometimes, you're going to make the wrong decision. You're going to fail to a degree, but be able to be able to own that though and put your hand up. That's that builds character and it builds strength in the team. It builds trust, it builds unity. Yes, I really bugger this out, guys, I'm so sorry. Or hey, look, I'm really struggling this, I don't know why. Time management, yeah, consistency, understanding the process. But to not put your hand up, not own it, fake it till you make it, not be honest, not take accountability. Everybody sees that and then everyone just loses trust in you. Speaker 2 Yeah, they go hand in hand, don't they? Competency and security, in a sense they do, You know, when you're secure, when you know your identity and you're secure in that you're going to be more competent. And if you're not competent at this particular time, you're going to put your hand up and ask for help to become competent. And so security is a huge one. Yeah, definitely. Speaker 1 So here, here's what it looked like for me, right? And so I tell this story a lot, but it's, it was a real line in the sand because what happened was, is that nobody would ever want to think that they're dishonest because again, that's a trait. Dishonesty is a trait. Honesty is a trait. And so, but here's the thing. I didn't want to look like a fool more than I wanted to be honest. And so there was a time where I, something happened at work and I was confronted by the boss. How did this happen? And I'm like, I don't know. And I knew very well what happened, right? And so that night I went home and I just felt like you, dog. What are you doing, mate? Just own up. Be honest. But it wasn't that I wanted to lie. It wasn't I wanted to be deceitful. I just hated looking like a goose. Yeah, but here's the thing. Character would say I'd rather look like a goose than lie. Speaker 2 Yeah, well. Speaker 1 And so I went back the next day and I said to my boss, this was 25 years ago, yeah, 20 years ago, 23 years ago, something like that anyway. But I went back to him and I said, hey, mate, you know that thing? I did that. And he just goes, oh, OK, no worries. And it taught me a valuable lesson that that my influence is only ever going to grow if I'm owning my stuff. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's so good. Speaker 1 And I wasn't owning my stuff. And it might have been for a good reason, at least in my mind it was. But it wasn't. You see, my mindset, my style and my traits grow my influence or shrink it. Yeah. And so somebody who's secure as a leader can give credit where credit's due. Speaker 2 Yes. Speaker 1 They don't take credit for things that they that they didn't have a direct hand in. They give praise to people. They want the team members to to be strong, even stronger than they are. They delegate well because they're not threatened, you know, and it's the same with team members, you know, maybe the team member that that holds all the information that won't share the way things are done because they don't lose authority or, you know, bearing in the business. You know, we should always be in trouble to replace ourselves, train and develop people so that we can do it better because we're not always going to be there. Speaker 2 Yeah. So what what do you feel like the flow on effect of those two stories are, You know, doors open for you once you started owning stuff, you know, you went home that night and you went back and told your boss that was me. It could have been that you just left it at that and your influence shrunk and we could just go, oh, your influence shrunk. That's why I haven't progressed to, you know, but doors actually open for you after that, didn't it? You know, just finishing your builder's licence, gaining a a greater responsibility of supervision over a project, things like that, that when you started to accept responsibility, understand your influence, your whole world opened up. Speaker 1 Yeah, it did, but bit by bit because I had so many and still do we all the but so many more lessons to learn. But that was a really poignant moment. And can I tell you how it came about? There was another guy in the business, absolute legend. And he and he came into the office one day and it was the same business, same same time. And something had gone wrong with his team and he was standing there in front of the boss and he just owned it. And I knew it wasn't directly him. I knew that it was his, his team in general, but he just owned it. And, and that was the conviction I needed to be able to go. You know, I don't, I don't lead like that. And then I went on a bit of a soul search and I can't. And I remember and then I think that thing happened that I mentioned and it made me realise, hey, look, you know what? This isn't about being perfect. This is about us working together as a team to be able to achieve outcomes. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's so. Speaker 1 Good. And back to your point though, Natty, it's like I've got to be competent in my job, but when I'm not, I've got to be honest. Yeah, that's that's what integrity, that's what character is. And if doors did open for us beyond that, it's because of potential trust, I guess, and character and, and competence and owning things and. And it's never one thing, is it? No, it's like it's a collective. Yeah. But here's the thing. We get the beautiful task of being able to develop that stuff into our team members. Yeah. It's business. And leadership is so much more than just getting it done. There'll always be more. It's like the the waves of the ocean, they just keep on rolling in and they'll never stop. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's. Speaker 1 The question is how we surf in those waves And, and the, the, the farmers analogy, it's like we're never going to have a harvest that we want to see unless we start to sow it into our businesses. Yeah. What do we want to see? Yeah, into our, in, in our people. What do you want to see as far as the outcomes go? Because that's what we need to start to sow. Yeah. And that's the power of influence. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's great. Speaker 1 We're going to we're going to grow a harvest, but we have to sow a seed. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. That's so good. Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a really powerful subject, isn't it? Speaker 2 Natalie Oh, it's amazing, you know, and we've talked about, you know, how your influence grows or shrinks mindset style traits and and what you use. But I love Franklin Covey as well, how he talks about the circle of influence and circle of concern, you know, and bringing those things that are external somehow into your circle of influence, those things that we don't think that can be an influence, that we influence, you know, instead of just blaming the external all the time, what can we influence? And by taking responsibility for our attitude, putting our hand up and owning some stuff that is bringing the external into the internal, you know, I love it. Yeah. Speaker 1 I love it. Where are the influence and outcomes or where a victim of circumstance? Speaker 2 That's him. That's him. Yeah, for sure. Speaker 1 Yeah, It's a really, really good spot to finish Natty. Thanks so much. Speaker 2 For I do have a question for you. Speaker 1 Go for it. Go for. Speaker 2 It Who in your world has been an amazing influence and why? What What mindset style trait have they shown or showcased that's made an effect on you and helped you in your business career? Speaker 1 Yeah, OK. So there's probably 2 that stand out. A good mate of mine, Daz Bunnell, a good mate of mine, Mick Dormer. There would be two people that really stand out. And the reason they do is because they've always gone about their business. They're successful in what they do. 2 completely different fields. You know, 11's a, a leader of churches, not just a passive leader of churches. He's a really influential guy at a high level. And then Mick is a business owner, a businessman. He's, you know, very generous in the way he goes about things. But here's the thing, our our lives have all followed very similar paths when we first knew each other. We were only just kicking off in our in our fields. And what I've seen is I've seen in their lives their influence grow, their outcomes better, their results speak for themselves and they've always loved and honoured people on the journey. Speaker 2 Yeah, I. Speaker 1 Love that they always cared about others. And it makes me emotional when we think about it because at the end of the day, you know, as business owners, as leaders. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 It's about people, yeah. You can't cut corners with this stuff. The the byproduct's fine. We're going to have the money, we're going to have the success, we're going to have the reputation. But if we burn people in the process. Speaker 2 That's heartbreaking. That's. Speaker 1 It and so those guys have always been champions of people. Yep, being very generous and very high integrity. Yeah, you know, not perfect by any means, but I can tell you, you know, when you hang around people like that, it rubs. Speaker 2 Off. No. They help you think big, don't they? Speaker 1 And they help you think big. And so. So that would be really good advice for our listeners. I imagine Natty, yeah. Sort of get around good people. Yep. Speaker 2 Shoulders and be that for somebody else, be that for somebody, you know, influence outcomes, help and encourage others, Yeah. Speaker 1 Because life's not rolling out the red. Speaker 2 Carpet. No, no, no. Speaker 1 Like it's just not. Speaker 2 Yeah, you have influence. How are you gonna use your influence? Yeah. Speaker 1 Good thought. You have influence whether it's increasing or decreasing, it's still a commodity. It is. And you can change your mind whatever you want Yeah and increase your influence depending on on your mindset. Mm hmm. Your style, yes. And your rates, Yep. So let's influence outcomes for the better rate. Let's see it. Thanks for the day, nada. Speaker 2 No problem. Thank you. See ya.