#352 Cain Velasquez - UFC Champion Hunted the Man Accused of Abusing His 4-Year-Old Son

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Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Kane Velasquez. Welcome to the show, man. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. So, yeah, we have a mutual friend, and he had mentioned your name to me, and I was just over the moon to have you, and so it's really an honor to have you here. Thank you. But, yeah, before we get started, man, I just want to say that I really respect, you know, what you did, and I think everybody knows what I'm talking about, and like standing up for kids that are going through exploitation, you know, dealing with predators and stuff has been, it's been a huge topic on my platform, and it's like the one thing that is the nearest and dearest to my heart is helping parents protect their kids and bring awareness to kids on how this kind of stuff is happening, because it's happening more and more and more and more as time goes on, and then the amount of predators that are online, it's just, it's atrocious that seems like an unfixable problem, and you could go after all of them, and I wish people would, but I think that the, I think the only way out of this is educating the public on what they can do, you know, is parents to protect their kids from this stuff, to talk to about it, which we knew were just talking about earlier, and to bring awareness to kids, and we've displayed in real time how that stuff happens online, and offline from every organization you can possibly think of sports, churches, educational systems, everything, you know, they're everywhere, and so, so like I said a matter, I just want you to know it's a real honor to have you here. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, what yeah, it is about awareness, you know, these things that have been part of our society, or it's been part of everyday life forever, you know, but the only way to, I think to really get past this on a positive level is awareness, you know, speaking to your kids, speaking to your kids at an early age, you know, and I was like, oh, they're so young, we don't want to like, instill these states of mind in them, you know, to be aware of certain things out there, because they're so young, but it's a must because that happens. So, educate your kids on what's appropriate and what's not, and that no matter what, they're always going to have a free place to come and speak their mind and not going to get judged out of it, you know, they won't get judged, they won't, they're not going to get, they won't get, you know, shot away, like the words are valid, right, their experiences are valid, you know, so it's creating that same space between you and your child, you can come to me with whatever doesn't matter, I'm not going to get mad at you, like, no, like, no, you come to me with truth, and we're going to get through this together, and being aware, showing awareness of this, talking about it, showing to the public, then it puts those that are doing these things, it puts them in a place of they have to pay their dues, you know, like, that's the only way, but if you keep it hushed, or if your kids say something, and you don't take that into account of what they said, and you think, oh, there may be something else, like, no, oh, like, that's not the way to do it, and they think, oh, okay, well, I'll just take you away from that situation, it's still going to happen to somebody else, and that's the same thing as it happens to your child, it's still growing, people aren't being, you know, processed in the way they should, you know, but they need to be, go to the system and be incarcerated and all that, like, they have to be shown, all of it has to be shed light on, yeah, yeah, man, to heavy, heavy topic we'll do it in a little bit here too, but, but, um, but I want to do a life story on you, so, you know, starting from childhood all the way up until now, and so I wanted to give an introduction first. Kane Velasquez, you're a former two-time UFC heavyweight champion, widely regarded as one of the most dominant heavyweights in MMA history, known for your relentless pace, wrestling, and conditioning. A lifelong martial artist you have come to view fighting is much more than physical competition, embracing its spiritual dimensions while exploring psychedelics, self-discovery, and personal transformation. After serving time in prison, you emerged with a new purpose, helping others heal through your own practice, ascension breath, which you introduce to fellow inmates and continue to teach today. Once again, welcome to the show. Thank you. So, uh, I have a, I have a Patreon account, a subscription account, and, um, they've been with me since I started this thing in my attic, about five, five, six years ago. And, um, and so one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. And this is from Mick Colin. You've spent your entire career learning discipline, composure, and how to handle, handle pressure in the toughest situations imaginable. Is a fighter, and more importantly, as a father, how have those challenges you've faced outside the octagon changed your perspective on what it truly means to be strong? So, yeah, I learned a lot from, well, everything I did, I learned from. So, I learned a lot about myself through wrestling, through, through fighting. Um, what are my limitations? You know, and I realized that there are none unless the ones that I put on myself, right? Um, I learned to really kill myself every day in training every moment, um, and give myself to that every moment every day, um, to where there's nothing more I can give. Like, I gave it all. I didn't, I didn't hold back, right? Um, from everything that I've learned from winning, losing, having, um, spotlight on me, having to have me open up to people, to strangers, to a mass audience, I guess. Um, I've learned over everything to be strong is to be authentic self. And to come with truth, truth is love and wisdom. Um, love and wisdom, but love could be in so many different ways. It could be unconditional. Yes. And again, if somebody does something wrong, then you have to shed light on it. That's also to have a lover somebody else that you may not have those feelings towards, but it's what's right. So, being your true authentic self, and what is that? Well, I think we all see each other as different, but through, we get the ego out of the way, where we're all the same, eternal beings from the same creator. That's what we are. Now we're we're told, I don't know, self discovery. It's, you are an infinite, love is within you. Infinite prosperity is within you. Like, infinite greatness is within you. So how can you share that? How can you embody that? And and share it by just you, just being you, your authentic self, not doing something for something else, not having a hidden agenda, you do it because that's the essence within you. You know, you just mentioned a love, what you just said there. You mentioned there are no limitations. And that's something I've learned over the years, and it's something that I've tried to instill into just about everybody that works here. And I think a lot of them thought I was full of shit, and then they look back at where we started, and they're like, "There are no limitations." And so I'm just curious, and I think that was just about everything in life. But when did you learn there are no limitations? What was it for you that you just always have that in you? No, it was always just an ongoing process. I just remember at a young age, when I started wrestling, and I started getting a lot of attention, and I had a hard time with that and with the attention, not what I was doing, like wrestling and doing the hard stuff, I loved that. But then as I started getting notoriety for it, I thought to myself, "Well, you can do it too." It's within you to do this, or do something that you love and make something great out of it. But I've learned over the years, the more that I know myself, the endless possibilities get bigger and stronger. The more that I learn, the depth of myself, the more that I realize. There's more that I can give, there's more that I can experience, there's more love that I can give, there's more love that I can experience. So it's been an ongoing process. I think I've processed things very well as a child already. A lot of people doing things that were wrong, I didn't understand it, you know, I didn't get it. It's not for me, that's what you're doing, but I'm not going to intertwine myself with that. To a path of self-discovery, it's an endless, eternal process. The more you tap into that, the more you grow from within, in all different aspects. You forgive, you let go, but you do what's right. So yeah, ongoing process of forever, I don't believe it's just one lifetime, it's forever. We're eternal beings, we're going to eternally grow into ourselves. So imagine what you could think the end game is, there is no end game, it's just eternally growing, eternally knowing yourself, eternally knowing that God consciousness is within you, it is you, all of everything that life is, that's bringing you into a push pool, into a place of scarcity, all of that, trying to tell you that material things are what life is about, entertainment, trying to get you out of, from you, all that's an illusion to get you out of yourself. How powerful would it be if everyone knew who they really were, and lived it? It'd be powerful, I don't think there's a lot of people to do now, but we're helping, we're helping, you know, everyone's helping in some way. Let's get to your life story, where'd you grow up? So I was born in silliness, California, my parents were farm workers, so they followed the fields of Central Valley, the Bay Area, all the way to Arizona. So I grew up in Arizona, I grew up in U.M. Arizona, I'm Mexican, my, so parts, Spanish, part indigenous Native American from Mexico, from the Sonoran Desert, that's where I was on part, Yaki, Yaki Mayo Indian, so I'm very traditional, hard working family, so my parents worked the fields all day, kind of thing, come home, and I grew up a lot going to Mexico because it was so close, like we would go, I was like 30 minutes away, so we'd go there, spend the day, and I loved it, loved the culture, the food, the people, so I grew up as, what would you do there? Relatives, relatives, we'd go swim, Arizona right, this hot, so we'd find, my dad would take his, all these like swimming halls, where they'd be like, they'd be like canals too, like can't swim in this canal, and it would be pretty shady, like looking, but we'd swim, we'd just like, all right, we'd dive in and just have a good time, swimming, food, so it was more just family time together, being together, enjoying ourselves, where was your dad, where was your dad from? Right, that's from that neighboring town, so he was born in San Luis, Rio Corral, which is a border town in Yuma, so that's where he was born, oh so when you were going back, you were going back to where you're dead, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's not a big town, and Yuma's not a big town, at least isn't a big town either, but they're known for their food, really good food there, it's so hot, it's like, I don't know what else to do, you know, you do that, you swim, go to the river, call out a river, swim there, so a lot of family time, a lot of family time, and as I got, as, even as a child, I saw how, like my parents trauma started coming out, my dad, my mom was very open with me, and I was open with her, like she like a safe place, I can go to always, she told me everything, she didn't keep anything hidden, she told me everything about her, her life, my dad's life, so when she would talk about my dad's life and how he grew up, he was very badly beaten by his mom and older brother, like on a daily trip to where he had a home, but it'd be time for him, even as young a brother would, wouldn't come home for a while, because they knew once he got home, like they wouldn't get beaten for whatever reason, so not a very good childhood, like he had times where he had separated himself and, you know, to be a kid on the streets, but at home wasn't a safe place for him, and I saw that, like in my parents' fighting, my dad, you know, hitting my mom and all that, like, I saw all that, you saw that, yeah, I heard it, saw the age, was younger than I can remember, yeah, and I just, just remember, like I couldn't understand how people that love each other would do that to each other, right? So, it made me make sense for it, of it was my mom telling me, like, things that he's gone through, and she was very understanding, she's just like, well, the things that he's gone through, like, it's, this is why he's like this, he'd be so loving and so peaceful, but then again, have this need to fight, you know, and hurt the loved ones around him, and try to control them. So, I had a very loving relationship with my father, I still do, but I understand the traumas that he went through, and I'm just happy that, generationally, my siblings didn't go through what he went through, you bro know. I feel like it just got better, it got better, and the work, I think the work that I'm doing now is, yeah, I'm breaking all those, those traumas. I'm always looking for things that help me stay focused without feeling wired or packed with questionable ingredients. I like clean products, simple, intentional, and something that actually fits into the day. That's why I've been using ultra pouches. 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Not a company uncollapse, but a company facing its first serious wave of customer backlash. At the exact moment, it's also hitting its biggest growth milestone ever. How many brothers and sisters do you have? One brother and sister. My brother passed away in 2020 and I got an older sister. Yeah, my brother really took care of me a lot and I was younger. I don't fucking crazy, man. I don't know how. Someone who's two years older than me took care of me. I just had so much energy. My eyes were open to life. I just want to run and do all these crazy things. You can really hold me until like, you need to stay still. That wasn't me. I had to keep moving. I couldn't stay still for anything. I had to keep exploring. I think I brought a lot of anxiety to him because he was older brother. He had to take care of me at a young age. No, I couldn't do that. My parents, I was just so wild. Getting to everything. I didn't stop. You know, trouble maker wild. I was more curious. It'd be like times where I wasn't around. Like when the family was like, I wasn't there. Where is he? He's doing something he shouldn't be doing. I go outside and garage or something. I saw something mechanical. I started breaking it and started opening it up. I wanted to see what it was and that there was paint there. I started spraying things. I didn't know. I just started spraying things. I shouldn't be spraying. I didn't know. You can't do that. That's permanent. There are no limitations like that. I just saw something. Spray paint. Did that. Fucking like, to let the razor out. I fucking took my eyelashes out. Yeah. Yeah. It took my eyelashes out. I remember when my mom having to paint me eyelashes to go play with my friends because I didn't have any. I was just, I was open to life and if I saw something, I wanted to see what it was. So then I started breaking it and started seeing the internals of it. So with the mischievous kid like yourself and your dad losing his temper on their mom, would he lose his temper on you guys. So I'm the youngest. I think they knew I was very I was innocent. I didn't do it for a wrong reason. I was just exploring. I think they knew that. But yeah, I got spanked and all that with the belt and hitting all that. My dad was very possessive with my sister. You have to do this a certain way. After school, you have to come home, no boyfriend, nothing like that. So that was very hard for her because she was very much like my dad where she'll fight, she'll fight you, you know, like she went back down. So they they themselves clashed a lot and that was very difficult to see, you know, how possessive he was with her, how he treated her. It didn't let her explore things she needed to explore as a child. Yeah. Did you or your siblings ever have to step in and between your parents? We did with like my parents would fight, you know. How would you do that? I mean, it was more so like we would just sit there like in front of them like cry, you know, like like I don't want to hurt my dad or you know like like I just want you as a stop. Just just stop whatever you'd like. Why? You know, so just I felt very helpless like and I think also it was more of like I'm the youngest people always looked out for me. So to take that role was difficult for me at that young of an age, you know. But as we got older, we got, you know, they slowed down a little bit more. I think my dad kind of grew up a little bit more of like letting some of this stuff go. So it wasn't as bad growing up like as we got older. But yeah, I had a tough time with it with like even stepping in and doing new thing because I just wanted it to stop, you know, just crying, just watching them cry. I'd be crying watching them have what they were doing, you know, and it felt very helpless. Do you have any advice for kids that are in a situation like the whether saying that every day? What really helped me was just understanding that my father had traumas, my mom did too, you know, and to understand their story a lot more, to understand how they were raised, how they were treated. Help me to forgive. Not that I could have done anything in that moment, you know, like, but that helped me, you know. And I do believe if it's a thing like that, like people shouldn't be together, you know, the parent needs to like, no, man, like this isn't it. Like it was hurting me, it's hurting my kids. Like I got to put myself out of this situation. You know, my mom never did that. There's time for they were like separated, but she did it very well that she understood why. And she would speak to us. Kids. Why? This is happening. And she would speak to like to us about stuff that happened to her as she was in she was a child. So she was very much an open book. Like you can come to her. I can come in all the time and talk to her about all these things that were going on with me or that I thought and just felt very at home with her, you know, so I guess understanding of, you know, your parent's story, but also like if it's ongoing and if it's every day and it wasn't every day, you know, it wasn't like that. But I think the parents have to get some type of control and get themselves out of something that they need to. They got to do it, you know. They can't be scared of like, oh, like, how am I going to survive all like, you gotta get yourself out of this this situation. You understand why why why you why you keep going back to this, you know. Did you find an escape from that or did you need an escape from that? So I guess as a as a child, like my kind of escape, was like to play like a loan. So I remember like going outside you can stick so that I'd do it like a lot of forms like seeing what I saw in karate movies you know pretending that the stick is a sword two sticks and just start doing what I saw in karate movies and then I remember going to like the public pool and I'd be there for hours doing a fight scene like every I've been a fight scene like karate fight scene in the in the water um kind of like like the matrix like I'd be like reenacting yeah yeah doing flip doing flips kicks that I couldn't do you know on land I would do them on water and I'd be there for just I'd be so into just playing with myself doing that not playing with anybody else just in the water and I do these fight scenes and I just and I'd make my own movie or whatever like I'd make my own like crazy fight scene where I'm fighting an opponent that's invisible but to me it's like well I'm in there I don't care who's watching nothing like I'm in my world yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so you were you were drawn to that from yeah very young age yes yeah Bruce Lee so we watched a lot of movies together my family and like it was all open to us like it wasn't like only can't watch this so I got introduced to everything through movies you know sex fighting martial arts love all of it and my first movies that I really love with Bruce Lee movies or watching his Bruce Lee movies going into our Swartznego movies Van Damne all the karate movies like I I wanted to be in some type of martial arts so bad karate or something like watching pro wrestling Lucha Lee pro wrestling WWE and and Lucha Lucha Lee but like between the two worlds so I watched a lot of that and I and I love that yeah we got you under wrestling so my my brother's two years older than me junior high he he started wrestling he said his seventh grade year so I was fifth grade and then it was free with the school you know so it's pretty much that like okay like fifth grade I started doing martial arts I started doing karate before I even did that before I even wrestled and I was like and maybe I was too old but I was like man this is this is weak this isn't this isn't real you know like this isn't real this isn't this is kind of like yeah we're working out discipline all of that but I'm like what you're showing us like this wouldn't work I just I just there was something to learn I was missing it was that at a at a young age like maybe I was just too I was too old or you know but um so then I started wrestling my seventh grade year like okay it's free like it's with the school um they just started doing it man and uh it wasn't easy like it was fucking hard you know work out so hard to go on wrestles hard in front of a lot of people wearing a single it's you know like going up in Arizona like it would not a big wrestling town so you get it made fun of because what you're wearing you get it made fun of because you're rolling around guys like you know so it's like people that aren't that aren't doing it are like judging you I don't what you're doing so it's like for me it was like well why why why am I doing it I don't know I don't know it's this hard it's tough like it's uh it's nerve-wracking before your wrestle like I don't know why I'm doing it but there's something there there's something there yeah so that's kind of how yeah it's kind of drawn to it right off the bat I was I was drawn to like how hard it was um but that I was good at it even though it was like I was hard you know and no praise came from it like it wasn't like you were like super popular that the alto school because you wrestled like wrestling wasn't wasn't wasn't that big and then um I didn't do very well at school so I mean I found something that I was that I did very well that spoke to me that taught me all the things that I felt like I needed to learn like what just uh how to strive through adversity how things may make it hard and they are like work at the hard positions are hard and in the position getting into position is hard to get which need out of a take down like it's so much work but it's like you get it it's like uh yes I got but then you're on to the next you're on to the next so it's like an ongoing uh constant battle um but yeah well so school really like kind of messed me up it messed you up it didn't um so my family we have um um dyslexia and things like that that I would go through the family and my brother had had a lot of that I did and I could read and all that um but I'm like man when I was in school doing schoolwork I'm like why not like why not like I'm doing this like it from grade school I'm like this is not what I want to be doing and I'm not gonna do it you know like my parents just yeah yeah so like my parents uh my dad stopped at third grade and just started working you know selling like gum and things like that in the streets my mom uh stopped at sub school at seventh grade farm working at that farm work at the house and also traveling farm working um so they weren't really on me too much about school so I didn't have that like oh did you work any of that at home but in school man doing work I was like this is this isn't it like this is this is bullshit um whatever I'm learning here is like there's some subjects that I did like history um things like that but like everything else that came with it I was like no this isn't it man I said I'd be in school it's daydreaming like get a way to get out to just recess go out and have fun you know um and a lot of that a lot of that got taken away from me too because I wouldn't do my work so they're like hey you got to finish this paper or whatever you got to finish this work before you go out or uh during recess and I still wouldn't do it I still might not mind if I can still not doing this shit did that interfere with a wrestling career so starting starting your high yet they maintain a sea average so I'm like okay well if I gotta do this if I want to do this I gotta do this the best way that I can and you know so I had to I thought I wanted to but I had to like if I want to keep doing this I have to do this I want to keep playing sports wrestling playing football I gotta do this so it made me lock down more and I had troubles with it big time a lot a lot of teachers helped me and all that they knew like I was good at sports but I wasn't the school is not my thing so it helped me it did and then in college when I got in the college man like tutors and all that like for me it was only wrestling in school like I really had to focus on school so how I mean how fast did your how fast did you excel at wrestling started in seventh grade seventh and eighth grade when undefeated no shit right off the bat they're off the bat when undefeated my eighth grade year I beat the state champion so I was a state champion in freestyle so right away I was good at it right away yeah yeah yeah I was good at it right away um was your brother good at it he was he was he wasn't as good as I was um our bodies are a little different like I move a little different than he than he used to he's very detectically he's strong but I can move really fast too for a big guy yeah like yeah some reason like I got that yeah that was your high school career really good um so I went like 110-10 high school so yeah really good uh freshman year I didn't place I was one one one match away from placing and in state um And then I took second my sophomore year and then one at junior senior year. So yeah, that's really good. That's one of the top guys in the country for wrestling, yeah, yeah. Maintain your sea average the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First year, I did go now eligible like for a week, had to do some work, so it was a struggle man, but yeah, I did it and like just squeezed by high school, like with the grazing stuff I did. It was hard, but I did it, you know, I'm happy that I did it. I learned a lot from it, you know, how to persevere even something like my good at. If you really put your time into it, you can, but like things outside of your world has to shut down, you know, like friends and all that, like, well, you're sport and you're schooling. You know, so it really helped me like carpimentalize like all of that. So I'm not just playing sports then going off, you know, my friends and doing other stuff. Like, no, no, there's work to be done, like you got to work. Were your parents into it? They come watch. They did support you. They did. My mom, yeah, my dad did as well. My mom was super, she came to all the matches. She'd be yelling, heard my sister as well. They'd be yelling, you know, fighting for us as we can hear them, as we're wrestling. Yeah, yeah, my mom was very proud and you'd be in the town and like talking to whoever and she'd be like, do you know what my son is? Like, wow, stop, like don't, you know, like I didn't, even though I did all these things and a lot of attention started to come into me, like, I didn't like it. I did not like it at all. I don't like people watching me give me type of praise. None of that. Really? I know that. Yeah, it's just a very awkward man. It's just like, nah, let me do my thing. Yeah, I think you're pretty introverted. I think, yes, yes, definitely. I think at a young age, watching people, again, and seeing how they didn't see things the way that I saw them, or they didn't act the way that I did, it made me go inside a lot more. You know, it made me sit down for people. There wasn't a lot of people that I got to really learn from, you know, and in a true way. There wasn't like, other than my mom, my dad as well, like, and my dad was more so watching him, watching him how it worked, you know, in the grind every day, working hard, like, and no, he didn't complain about it, right? My mom, how open she was with me, about everything, her life, or whatever, like, we talk, we talk. But there wasn't a lot of people where I'm like, oh, like you, I can learn from. There wasn't. So I'm more so shut down, did my thing, when I head down. So yeah, I mean, we really just go within and not share of myself. And in the other way, then, like in the physical, when do colleges start looking at you? Right. Probably like my sophomore, senior year, I had a choice of either playing football or wrestling, and had a lot of colleges look at me for football, like a lot of big schools. So, I feel like I could have gone either way, or grades two, or something, like, okay, it's crazy not that good. And so, you know, kind of thing. So, it kind of took me off of the, you know, a lot of colleges wanted me to play, it took me out of that, like, yeah. So I had to go into junior college first. What did you like better? Do you like football or wrestling better? I like them both, but I felt like I would have a better career in wrestling, I felt better wrestling. I felt like I was really good at both. I get it in the needle one. I felt like I wanted to focus more on wrestling because there's something about it that taught me so much. There's more, there's more, more things you could do. I think I could shine there a lot more, yeah, yeah. But I got recruited more from football by big schools, like wrestling, even though it wasn't like a lot of big schools asking me to go, I feel like I could have wrestled anywhere that I wanted. Where did you end up going? I want to go to Arizona State, yeah. So '96 when I saw Jake Plummer, they had a season where they went into the Rolls-Ball. I'm like, man, Arizona State didn't even know, Arizona State, okay. And then I found they had a wrestling team, one of the best in the West Coast. I saw them wrestle once against Iowa, and I'm like, I'll come in here, like I want to wrestle here. This is where I want to wrestle. And Iowa. No, and Arizona State, yeah, Arizona State had a duel against Iowa, and they got beat, they did. I don't care. I want to go to Arizona State. I want to represent my home state, yeah, I'm going to be a son devil. Did you get there? I did. Yeah, I had to go through junior college first, so I went to junior college, in Fort Dodge, Iowa, Iowa Central Community College. We went on an national championship there, the year I was there, and I was a junior college and national champion. Being exposed to the Midwest was a big culture shock for me. Why is that? That's where I grew up. It was a different man than what I grew up. People were different, the surroundings were different. It didn't feel like home to me. For me, it was having my family around, either like every day, or at least having them come to my matches, that was a big thing for me. So going to Iowa Central, thinking I could go anywhere that I wanted to, and my mind was open to that. Once I was there for a year, I was like, "No, I want to go back home. I want to go back to Arizona State, where I originally wanted to go. My whole life, I want to go there, wrestle there, and I want to have my family watch me wrestle. I want to still be around them." I got recruited to go to Arizona State, and I was like, "Yeah, man, I'm coming here. I'm coming back home." How was the competition for you in college versus high school? A lot harder, a lot harder, man. You're wrestling every match, you're wrestling like guys at state champions, now all of them, and if you're a freshman or a sophomore, you're wrestling guys that are much older. It's like you're in the second high school, too, but the level of competition is a lot more, a lot more, a lot harder, so everything, takedowns, everything, trying to score, all the matches, you're hardly getting pins now, you're hardly, you're winning by two or three points, type of thing, so it got harder, it didn't. How would you handle loss? I wrestled, I wasn't any good, but I think one of the most important things about that sport is it teaches you how to lose, because it all falls on you. There is no other excuses, there's no team to blame, there's nothing it's you, and we're one of the person. Yeah, you learn how to lose, I didn't lose that much in high school, you know, and when I did, I didn't shut down, but I like very upset at myself, a while lost, and I don't think at that moment I started to understand why I lost, you know, like it was more, maybe my style of wrestling was so wild, that when I got to college, I got more structure, more technique, so then I started understanding why I lost, losing so much, you learn how to lose, or you better, you better learn how to lose, it's not going to be good, you know, I didn't like it, I didn't like losing, but I just said it was a part of it, like the only, and over time, I just put in the perspective, okay, the only thing you can do is learn. from the loss. Okay, what did you learn from? Okay, what did you learn? Okay, you can't do this or this happened in this moment. Okay. Okay, leave that shit there. Move on. Move on because it's another match coming up right now. You know, another match coming next week. So yeah, wrestling really taught me how to learn from those losses. There are a lot of them people watching, right? People watching. They can say anything like you got your ass kicked or whatever. They can say anything and you got to just take on the chin. All right. Well, I can't even tell them I'm going to do better. It doesn't even matter, right? Like you have to show them, right? By the work that you're doing. So they really taught me to just, yeah, learn from the loss. Just take what you can from it, but don't hold on to it, man. Bring on the next one, the next one to keep improving. Yeah. What time, when did, when did martial arts show up on the scene then? When did you start gaining interest in that? Mm-hmm. I started seeing how big it was growing. What year is this? So this is like my college career was from 2001 to 2005. Okay, it could reach your year 2005. So I started seeing the UC grow and at that time, I was my dreams were to keep wrestling and wrestling into into the Olympics. When I got into my junior senior year, wrestling just wasn't enough anymore. Like I was getting pretty bored of it. Like, I didn't feel like I was a place that, because of your certain rules, you know, it's grabbing, it's takedowns, it's escapes. There's no strikes. There's no submissions, right? So then I started seeing fighting as, well, you can do more things there. You can kind of be more free to play around a lot more. So you can use the striking and so I started seeing it and realizing, okay, I want to start doing that because wrestling just isn't cutting it for me anymore. I want to learn to striking. I've never really done it before. I don't know if I'll be good at it, but I feel like in the fight, I feel like there's nobody that can beat me already already in college. Like I feel like me learning these skills growing that that I'll start doing that. So I knew my junior year that I would that I would start fighting. And I told my my college coach that and college coach Tom Ortiz, still a good friend that I talk with all the time now. He just said, look, be done with your seasons, you know, then I'll make sure we get you in touch with the right people that of a fighting that you want to do. So he got me in touch with a K in San Jose. This is a good gym out there in San Jose. I think you should go there. Who are you watching? Have you been rewatching UFC and what pride at that time? I wasn't watching a lot of it. You weren't? I wasn't. No, I watched like, I watched one fight Tito and Chuck LaDale fight, and I'm like, man, I can do that. Yeah, I just watched one. It was just something that was in me. It wasn't like I watched all these fights. And I was like, I want to do that. No, I saw one. It was already within me. I want to start doing this. Because it wasn't like it is. Yeah, now back kind of it was pretty. Yeah, it's almost taboo. One fight every what, three months or something like that, maybe. Yeah, I mean, gyms were, yeah, I don't know, but it seems like they're more I remember far a few in between. It wasn't like, I'm going to go check out this jujitsu gym. Exactly. Exactly. No, but there's a few gyms in all these different places. There's even one in Arizona. I saw, I was already within me that I'm going to do this. I don't know what's going to come of it. I just, I feel like I have to go do this. I saw one, I saw the fight with Chuck and Tito and I'm like, I can do that. I can do it. Yeah. So that one I graduated with pretty, pretty good grades. Like, yeah, that's pretty happy with that. I was like, I did it. I fucking, it was hard work. I did it, you know, I had pretty good grades. Like, ah, yes. Yeah, man, so I could have stayed around. Arizona stayed and be like, and helped coach and all that, right? I packed up all myself in my car. Everything I had just packed up my car and drove out to San Jose without knowing anything. Like, it was hard, man, leaving like a life that I knew so well. Good friends, you know, going to a place that I don't know, going to do something that I don't know what I'm going to do just to call him. Holy shit. So you just left everything. It's something you really had no idea about. You just were like, I want to try that. I want to do it. Yeah, that was it. Not here. Yeah, that was it, man, it was, I just felt like I had to go do it. I don't know. Again, like I don't know what's going to come of it, but I didn't think of what to come from it. No, no, I just feel like I have to engulf myself in this. You know, just like I did with what everything else I did. That's it. Like, no, no expectations of what's going to come from it. Nothing like that. It was just, I feel like I have to go do this. Okay. Backed up by stuff in my car went out to San Jose and at the time, at that season, my parents were in Salinas. So they're about an hour away from San Jose. They're still doing the farm working, right? And they have a house in in Salinas that they're, but they're renting to stay. So I went in and they just started just started. So you live with them. I started, yes, living with them and just being all day in San Jose. And they weren't, they're not, they're very good on like let you do you, you don't need to, oh, you had a school, you don't get like, oh, you got to pay rent. I mean, like they weren't like that ever, ever. Like, oh, you need a car, you need a car fixed. Okay. Like, they're very good with that. Both of them. Like, it wasn't like, no, no, no, not you, now you got to help out. They were never like that. They're always just like, oh, you want to go do this? Okay. As long as you stay in school or do whatever you're doing and you're good. You know, so it was till I didn't have a pressure at home of like, oh, now I got to like help out pay rent or anything. I was there rent free. And I'd be all day training. So it was like walking into that gym for the first time, not knowing anything. Both of them wrestling. Uh, nerve wracking, a little scared of not, yeah, like, okay, we get, it's different now. You know, I got to learn how to fight. And I got to fight these people here, training partners and all that. Um, so my coach, Javier Mendes, I think it was my first little sparse technique sparring. Or you have a real sparring technique sparring. First day, it was like the first time I even got in there and he saw me work with somebody and he even says that now the story, but he knew that I, that I was going to be good at this just from that, just from watching me in the beginning. Without knowing any striking or anything, just wrestling, being able to go in and control guys, taking down, you know, getting hit on the way in. I didn't know how, I didn't know how to defense or anything like that or how to strike. But the strike, it didn't scare me. Um, I didn't mind getting hit, you know, that's the thing about other athletes coming into mixed martial arts or boxing or anything. Like, how do you react when you get hit? There's a certain way like, you can I be scared of it? And that's how it should be. Or people get hit and then they don't like it. The car away, they break down. So that wasn't, that wasn't me. Like I, I didn't mind it at all. Like it even gave me more, more fuel. So getting hit, boom. All right, take it down. Just just just to show you. So he knew right away that it'd be that'd be good. And then I just, I saw him. If how we taught, to have your mentors, if how we taught, I like, man, I got, I got to, I got to learn from him. Like he knows it. Like that teacher that I was looking for, like, in fighting was him. He knew, he knew, and what he taught in fighting, like it translated to life too, you know? So I started to learn from, from him, the fighting, everything that this, the mentality, the, the game plan, the given and taking, and applying that to my life as well. Well, I'll be where do you start? Huh? Where do you start? Just get in there. Get in there. He's getting in the gym. Yeah. I'm personally starting to teach you now. Just get in the gym and then, okay, you have a back, you have a back on the wrestling. Yes. Okay. What do we need? Okay. You need, you got to learn striking, you know, you got to learn that and you don't know the submission game, but you can control people on the ground, okay, but you don't know how to get out of submissions. You don't know how to get people into submissions, but you know how to control people on the ground. So that's a good start already right there, right? And if you want to, you can take the fight to the ground and punch them like, it'd be very easy, easy that way, but he started showing me, um, kickboxing on the feet and simultaneously throughout the day, I do just as well, right? So I was learning both at the same time, um, but to really dial my, my striking in, like, how to stand, how to, how to, how to use your footwork, um, what, what you used to engage in striking, what to use to set up your takedowns, um, I felt like it was easier than wrestling because, because now or not, hunched over in a wrestling stance, we're standing up. So if I'm trying to take somebody down, they're standing up, I want to take them down, right? And with striking, setting up the takedowns for the strikes made it so much easier than before. Really? Yeah. So I feel like it was easier, like, to get a takedown, to control somebody, um, um, so I feel like it made it easier than wrestling, wrestling was harder. It was a lot, yeah, it was harder. Yeah. So I just started, what level do these guys at? So Havir Mendes is, uh, is a world champion kickboxer, he's a world champion kickboxer, um, so he started, so as far as the striking, uh, the boxing, the kicking, the knees, all of that elbows, he knows how that very well, very well, but he's very good on game planning and how to, how to, like, you do this to beat this guy. Like that's where he's very good at, but the technique wise as well, like, and me, I'm a visual person. So we seeing it, how it's done, I can do it right away, like, show me how it's done because I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be so detailed on, like, on where your, your, your placements of your feet were, of your hands were, of your body was, of how you're shifting your body to get into a certain place. So me being visual really helped, like, I just had to tell them, okay, show me real quick how, how to do that, and I'd watch them do it a couple times, I'm like, okay, I got it. And then, then I'd start doing it. And then it was a thing of combining everything, everything that, that you know, together. So mix mixing it up all, nicely, together, making a flow nicely, instead of striking, and then, oh, it's hunger, wrestle, okay, striking up, let me lower change, level change, take a shot in, take somebody down, no, I made it flow very nicely together, made it look like it was all one, one movement. So like a fight scene, like, it would just, it would just flow into that. So I just, you used to, you started at the top level, yeah, I'm competition coaches, everything. Yeah, high level gym, hollow athletes, how are you there and guys that have fun, the UFC, how far, how far, how far for titles as well. Yeah, best trainers, got to teach you at the time, Dave Camarillo, learning a lot from his, he did a little bit of judo as well. But I just, I just, every, every day, every moment, like, just put myself in there. So I was in pretty much fighting, training camp, nonstop, how many hours a day? Like, five or six hours a day, five, six hours a day, six days a week, and then, like, gas money, I started working at a, at a bar at night, like bouncing like three, three days a week, three or four days a week bouncing, uh, working out that out the day, and I had enough, like, gas money and maybe some food, you know, so that's how I live. Like, and then they even got to a point where, okay, when I was, when I was doing that at night, working bouncing at night, instead of driving home an hour to my parents house, having to come back. I should have parked, I should have parked in my car in different places and sleep in there. Yeah. I was like, well, I'll get more rest for training if I do this, so I started doing that. I mean, do you want to talk about, you know, kind of the mentality that it takes to become a champion? I mean, from seventh grade on, you're right there, you know, junior senior, you're a state championship, and then you had the mentality, you know, and we all know what you've become, you know, in your fighting career. But to graduate college and to just go right into it, a hundred percent at the top level. Yeah. It just takes love, love on what you're doing. If you love what you're doing, things are going to happen, like, you're going to be blessed. Like, you go in with no expectations. I didn't go in to do fighting because I was going to make an name for myself, money, none of that. I don't know. I went in, like, to train, like to fight every day. That's why I went in. That's why I did it. I didn't know there was a whole other aspect to this, not a riot, and like, people watching you, not a riot, I think at the money, they gave me that. So the love of what I love to do brought me to all these places. Well, what? I mean, if you say that, because now you're what, 22, 23 years old, probably, yeah, eventually you have to make a living, right? So did you, I mean, did you, do you, again, maybe not, but you genuinely just want there because you wanted to learn and master it. You had no aspirations to become what happened, become a UFC champion. I just was for love of, of this sport. I knew it'd be good at it. Like, I just know, okay, I know I can do this. I know I can do this, but the process to train for me was process of self discovery. It's learning something new that I feel like my mentality matches with it, my body matches with it. It's on style. I was just good at it for the beginning, just good at it, but it was, it was getting, getting just lost in the process of developing myself, developing my skills, developing my, getting lost in that, like, that's all I needed, you know, and like, I'd be at the clubs and stuff, you know, working and it's like, people were asking, like, what did you do? You know, like, what, what do you do? The normal question, right, it's like, I didn't even like people to tell people about the fighter. At the time, it was like the biggest pickup line, like, oh, I'm a UFC fighter, I wouldn't need to say any of that. And what I wasn't in the UFC, but number two would be like, I just say, I don't know, I just do this. I just bounce, like, keep it very simple, like, no, but just being, being so into the process of developing was what I needed at the time for my soul, my body, for my mentality, you know, no longer having school, which is for me was, yes, like, I'm free, you know, I'm battling with these guys every day to brotherhood, you know, we're bleeding every day, we're kicking each other's ass every day, and it's kind of crazy to say, but it's an 11 way, like, you kick their ass because you love them, you kick their ass in the gym, so they don't get kicked their ass kicked out in the real fight, right? So, the way of showing love in the gym is to do that. to beat somebody up, to beat their ass out there. Like, that's how you show them love. You're making better out of that. Iron sharpens iron. That's how you do it. So, just being engulfed in the process, man, that was it. And then, as I started fighting, I started winning. The things started to come together. - How did you start fighting? I mean, how long were you training, learning before who was time to compete? - So, my first six months after training, I got my first fight. - Six months? - Six months. I find strike force in San Jose. Again, they pointed being picked. Like, it was a good match up for me, you know? Like, you didn't have that song or wrestling, but he fights, so be aware, you know? But you have good enough stuff to, like, go ahead and like, you know? Yeah, I could, my coach too, like, I'll have your men and stuff. It was like, yeah, you can stand on them. You can beat them anywhere, but what would you want to do that? Like, take the game to where you know the best. Take a Zastown, beat them up on the ground. So, we did that, yeah. How did it go? Knock, stoppage by, by the TKO stoppage in the first round. The first maybe a minute or two. It took me down right away. They threw a kick, checked it. Grab the kick, took them down, and then just beat them up on the ground, and they stopped it pretty, pretty quick. - That was your first match. - That was my first fight, yeah. - Holy shit. - Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then on I played a year, a couple of months later, I fought in Russia for a show called Bow Dog, fought there. First round TKO, again, took them down to the same thing, broke my hand doing it. So I had a recover from it. And if I'm then on until my UFC career, it might have been like a year or two? - That's it. - I've been like two years, something like that. Okay, but no fights in between, at all, none. So by the time I had my second fight, I was already pretty well known as, he seemed to be the next up and coming heavyweight. - No shit. - So people knew already what I had. My pedigree at wrestling. They already talked about like, I had people come into the gym, other fighters, professional fighters, and I beat them up, you know? - What do you mean they would come to the gym? - They would come to the gym to train you. - Yeah, to train, so all their UFC fighters would come in to train. And like the UFC fighters that were already there or they were seeking you out. - Yeah, they'd come in like, you know, hey, we're gonna train, you know, like, you travel around training with other other, other gyms, other camps. - They would seek you out to get better. - Whether it was me or if it was just, I'm gonna go to this gym because you had me, you had Paul Bonnetello who fought for a title for the UFC. He was another heavyweight, had another heavyweight and like Kyle, guys that fought in like bigger shows. So we already had like a pretty good group of like big guys. And Paul is really good in the standup. Like good hands, hit hard, fast hands for a big guy. No wrestling, you know, or not just not that good. But the guys would come in that were either in the UFC or guys are fighting in big shows. And I knew I stacked up with everybody 'cause I beat 'em up. Yeah, yeah. So between that time of the those two years, I couldn't get a fight. - Why? - 'Cause people wouldn't wanna fight. So like they, if you know they wouldn't wanna fight. - So they wouldn't wanna fight you? - So in the UFC, you get matched up, right? And you really can't say no. Well you can, but then they're gonna put you on the back burner and say okay, well you don't wanna fight, you know? Like you gotta fight this dude. You don't wanna fight him. Well the fuck are you doing here, right? But when we're talking about smaller shows, people wanna go to record so they can get into the big show, right? They wanna, they wanna, so you kind of have to maneuver a lot more like tread lightly, like finding a good matchup. Or else there's no point. Like other than you're gonna get beat up or go through a war you don't have to. Save that for the big show. So that was more like the mentality. So yeah, I signed up for a lot of fights, but I'll throw it that time and all of them backed out. Like either the guys, like the day I've backed out for some reason. So they knew like okay, probably gonna lose if I go on this guy. It's kind of what the mentality is. - Is that frustrating for you? - You just learn. - Yeah, it was, but then you just learn like, I gotta make it make sense for me, right? What the best way that I could do to make it make sense for me was, okay, you're not gonna get the opportunity to polished yourself in other fights. That's not gonna be a rogue. And even my coach, Javier Mendez said, like you're gonna learn it from the gym and then you're gonna have to go to the big show. However, that happens and what that happens. We don't know, but just continue the process. Keep getting better, keep training and the sparring that you're doing here, that's your fight. - So did you only do two fights or were there fights in between Russia and your first, that's it, two fights. - Two fights? - Well, how do you get your name out by people by people turning down fights? That's the only way, right? - So bad and just the gym talking, you know, when you have like people doing interviews on like they come into gyms and they do interview on like the gym itself and they'll, you know, you already, within the fighting world, you already know who's at what gym, right? And the story of me going around that, anybody comes to the gym, I'm beating them. It's pretty well known, right? The UC didn't necessarily know about me like that much. And remember my, one of the managers, Bob Cook, was calling the UFC and telling them about me. And he was saying, well, look at this guy, he's very good. He's gonna be probably the champion coming up. And what the UFC says was, okay, well, put him up against Andre Loskey, like right away. Well, that's going from, yeah, zero to 100 already. You could do that, but Bob Cook did it very well. He said, no, no, no, well, look, you don't know what you have here, okay? You don't have to bring him up a little bit, you will, but he'll be good, okay? So now these talks, back and forth with the UFC, finally, Dana, Dana White was okay with, hey, let's set up a training session in Vegas, okay? I know what guys you have. Me, Michael, Christian Wallace was another guy that's fighting the UFC currently, said, look, haven't come over, just Bob told Dana, look, just watch him train. That's what he got to do, just watch. So went to Vegas to the ultimate fighter, Jim, in that ring there, in that, that cage, and we had a full on Spartan session. Me against those two guys. So me out there the whole time, going around with those two guys, and Dana White was there and he watched. And afterwards he said, well, why isn't he in the UFC yet? So he signed me on the spot. Holy shit, how did that feel? You know, amazing man, like it nervous going in, you know, but do what I do, I did it and it was like, yeah, it was like, wow, okay, like, amazing, yeah. But like, like now I'm there, okay, now I'm at the show, right now I'm at the biggest organization in the world. But now this is where the work starts. So even on there, like you now, and now the road is going to start. Hey, man, two, two fights, holy shit. Yeah, let's say the quick break. Okay, cool. 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There's been some times where the workload was so much that it was affecting my health. I was just getting sick. I was actually getting mentally and physically ill from the workload and the pressure. I give really irritable if I don't see my kids. What's the one thing you want people to say about your body of work in 20 years? You get picked up by Dana White watching a training session in the UFC. Where do we go from here? Have our first fight with. yeah first fight guy named Brad Morris, Fatum and Matt Sarah fought GSP, George St. Pierre, their second fight. I mean what changed? Did anything change? Did your training change? Or was it just the same pace? Same thing. Yeah, as far as training and doing the same things, just improving. I wasn't all there yet. I had pretty good technique everywhere. I wasn't a natural strong puncher. So hitting people like I wouldn't really drop them too much. Especially my beginning of my career, I wasn't like that. I could punch fast, I could punch all of that, but I wasn't doing a lot of damage. So you can see that in my first couple fights. People were starting like, again commenting on that, that I can't punch hard. So I wouldn't be as good. What was your nickname? So I didn't have one Cardiocaine. So I couldn't have an official nickname. After a while, the Spanish-speaking countries called me El Toro, El Toro. The bull. They call me the bull. So Spanish-speaking countries, that's stuck. So in Mexico, nowhere else like that, that's stuck. But in the US, yeah, they call me, it was a nickname that stuck, but it was more of like, that's what I'm known by. So yeah, Cardiocaine, yeah. What are they called you, Cardiocaine? They can go, man. They can keep going. Just keep going. Keep in pressure on. That was my wrestling style too. High pace. For a big guy, a lot of high pace. And I can move around pretty good. So I move around like a smaller guy fast. But I always wrestled against bigger guys. I was weighing 240-250 when I wrestled. And the weight limit is 285. So I'm wrestling guys 285. You're in heavier. They got to cut weight. So I got really used to keep competing against the guys. So when I fought, I fought around 240. Weight limit for the UFC heavyweight is 265. So I'm always fought guys that are much bigger, much taller, much heavier than me. More of a smaller, the size, small heavyweight. Yeah. Was that new to you? It wasn't. No. Same as training. Yeah, it was the same as training. It was the same as when I wrestled. And I competed against a lot of big guys. So I knew the best way of beating them would be they're going to get tired. Like after a certain amount of time, then that's when I start scoring. Same thing in fighting. And I got to use my speed and my footwork. I got to use my speed, my quickness. And fighting again, it was a little easier. It actually was. Like I don't got to hold on to somebody and move their body around like in wrestling. This is what you got to do, right? So moving the mass of 285 around and trying to get under them and take them down. There's a little more difficult than in the fight. It's much quicker than hit them first and get out before they even hit you. So it became a little easier. I saw it as it was easier than wrestling. Interesting. But you've said, you know, in your training sessions, you would train until you feel like you felt like you were going to die. Was it about a four-cooler? I gave myself to every training session. Like I gave everything I had. Like I had nothing left for me to do. Except for rest, recover, and go on to the next. So you got to do our practice, right? You have drills, maybe you start out with. And I'm trying to beat the drills every time. Every position, I'm winning every position. I'm going as hard as I can, each position. But even if we're working with somebody, like I do a move, then I let them do the move. I let them do the move, whether it's like a takedown. But then I don't just land on the takedown and like, okay, get me up or land on the takedown and stand up. No, no, I transitioned with that takedown. As I'm going and taking, taking down, I'm going into what's next and what's next. So that's getting away, escaping, separating, reversal, right? So I'm doing that into my training. So I'm like literally every moment going into that choreography, I guess you would say. With the fight, I'm going. Like I'm not stopping. I'm going, I'm chain wrestling. I'm going to the next move, to the next move. I'm never stopping moving. And as soon as I get up to my feet, we go back again. So when I try to teach guys now that I see fighting or that I see, you have a two hour training session. You start doing drills. Now there's a way to do it. You do a move, maybe a takedown, boom. Guys usually can take it down. They lay there. They pick themselves up. They walk back to where they were at. Then do it again. My train I thought was, would you start moving or whatever, get taken down here. Really into the takedown, into something else and doing escape into a reversal. So it doesn't, the movement never stops. Then when you stand up, your opponents are funny, you then you start going again. So then now you're getting all these reps in. Now the workout is a continuous workout. It's not stop, go, stop, go. Oh, man, I just look, I really just die. to it like I left everything every training session like there was nothing left for me to give like I did it all and this condensed them on a time for two hours I'm giving you all that I have and I did that every day and I just loved that I loved to push myself to that to where I'm fucking next like that after that I'm just dehydrated like so much like I really just need IV but fuck it you know like I battled I battled every day I got to be free for these two hours and this moment I got to be free let everything out how long was it how long was it before so you signed how long did it take for you to get a fight it might have been at three the three to six months around there yeah yeah had my first fight uh as in uh Quebec Canada how was that I mean an introverted guy two fights is one of a ton of people I mean not not a probably not a big audience but nothing like nothing like the UFC right so I'm thrown into that so me fuck me wrestling at the national tournament in college you guys stadium full maybe they're not watching and then maybe not everyone's watching your match but majority people are as well as well right so that helped me to like block them away focus on what I got to do so that fight in Quebec um George St. Pierre Mazzara too was a big card but I'm one of the first ones fighting so that the whole stands aren't full yet they merely show up in the main card so I felt like it was like I was in that that national tournament again where the blinders on man yeah you guys use interviews and all that whatever like you got a whole week to kind of process this and just go out there and like just free yourself you know be be free for a moment in the chaos basically yeah I was yeah when first round TKO again um what strikes on the feet strikes on the ground um first round first round yeah uh the referee let the fight go on low too long the guy that I was fighting took a little bit of a beating he shouldn't have taken that you should have stopped it away earlier so because my fight ended so early if the later fights and early as well they'll put one of those undercard fights on the main card on on TV we might need to get shong because it was too uh it was too one sided like it was bad it's just stopped the way earlier so yeah would it want to be what do they feel like then you're at the top level now and is that is that exciting for you is there a disappointment for you were you expecting better competition no no not better no um I just felt like that was the first step of many steps to go in this in this right like if you were with the goal is to get that that belt you know is well the goal is not to get that the goal is to show that you can beat everybody right to that competition in front of you and that you have better skills than they have all around like that's the goal and that was just the first step of of more challenges to come how many fights did you go before you got the opportunity to fight for the championship I think I was nine and oh I think I think nine fights around there like nine fights maybe um some like that yeah I so I fought uh minotaur no gira and we fought in australia and we knew the winner of this would would be fine for title and minotaur no gira one of the best to get two guys out um one of the best to get two guys in heavyweight probably ever and he's a he's a he's a really good chin like doesn't get knocked out doesn't get knocked out nothing like that um so I knew he was just very dangerous very dangerous um and again my fights before this and it really hit hard right so you want to know my my nickname before yeah so they started calling me he will start to call me pillow hands on social media right because I didn't hit hard I didn't I didn't knock people down like I hit them yes I hit them a bunch of times but I didn't hit them hard and we got it we got to a point in training where I develop all these skills okay yes now focusing on the power like like look you don't hit hard naturally you don't okay but how like with the hoggy air with Mendez like how are we going to get that from you so we really started working on that and that's body placement lowering your level having your knees bent um throwing throwing everything from your hips as if you're like chopping wood and you're throwing your hips and you're not you're not letting your arms do the work you're letting your body do the work so it was that so really focusing on that and that it really helped me develop like what it means to fully commit and I'm just touching my strike I'm talking about fully commit to everything fully commit yourself that's with position being the right position and giving all of yourself so again if people don't want to get hit they go in and like give a little touch and try to get it they're thinking about gain quick in touching and then get out just as fast as they went in but when you fully commit you don't think of that all you're thinking is look my hands are on the right place so if he were to hit me then he hit me but my hands are on the right place I'm guarded as much as I can my levels lowered and I'm throwing my hip I'm throwing my shoulder I'm fully committing to this movement right here I don't care what happens afterwards but I'm going to give you all of this now as soon as that punches out as I just come back that's when you go ahead and get out so I really started like it was more of like taking my time to fully commit to that but giving all of myself like I'm giving you all of this I'm taking my time it's gonna be a little slower but being done right it's great outcomes what will what will happen so when the gira and knock them out on the feet on the feet yeah yeah the game playing for him was just not to tie up with them don't wrestle with them if you do wrestle with them like throw them instead of like landing on them they don't land on them so players tend to game punches and kicks and we're doing that like and I was I was scoring pretty well and then he comes in and I come in and I and I fucking just told his right hand it's around the button and I'm fucking again and I'm lowered I you know I did what I practiced so he fall let's see him fall but then also thinking in my head like okay he doesn't get knocked out so you gotta make sure right so as he fell I passed his legs came around and he hit him with the more shots on the ground but like fucking hard like because he's dangerous he'll he'll he'll get up and start start this thing you know so I had to make sure that it'd be done which for me was hard because he was he was the guy that I licked up to if I had to choose somebody to to not fight it'd be him he's just a good person he'd be he's just he's a pillar of the sport and what he's done in his career and and how he's done it you know so I respected him a lot so for me to like to do that was was hard is that the first person you thought that you were thinking holy shit I'm fighting this guy no he wasn't but he just again his certain set of skills like I had to bring a certain type of game plan to match up against his skills perfectly so so I so I could come out on top and win everybody has their own like puzzle everyone has their own chess game everyone plays a certain way everybody has all the strengths and weaknesses and. The game plan is what's the best way to what against that with with with my game with what I have body positioning body size, the way you move your mentality or your skill level, good techniques you bring. So it's, it's, uh, We're hand-to-hand combat war for doing. Who was the first person that you got matched up with that you were thinking, oh, shit. I can't believe I'm fighting this guy. Was it, did you have that moment? Or did you already fought all of them in training? I just knew that there'd be nobody that can beat me and in training there was nobody that couldn't. Um, So when I felt Brock Lesnar, um, I felt like I had the recipe to beat all. And that was interesting as well. Just, um, I feel like me, me and my coaches knew already. Okay. Like, he's good at this. But the things that he's good at, I'm really good at too. Like, he's good at taking people down and beating them and like, beating them up on the ground, but I'm really good at standing up. So I didn't even care to get taken down with him. It wasn't like I was, I was avoiding it. No, no, no, we, we actually worked so much on like, I have Daniel Kormey, I was sparring him and my coach, uh, Bob Cook, uh, one of the managers and also coaches as well at the time, um, said, okay, this is what we're doing, this whole camp. When you're sparring, whenever I say, can get down, that's what you're doing, okay? You're gonna get on your back and you're gonna have this guy's lay on you. When, and in any position at any moment in the, in the sparring, this is what you got to do. I said, okay, so it's sparring rounds and rounds and rounds. I'm tired, right? I'm, I have the better position on Daniel, maybe, and then Bob Cook says, okay, and get down. I stop what I'm doing, get on my back, open up like this, and have DC start wherever he wants to start on me. And me just get up and get away. So I wasn't afraid of him taking me down, took me down three times, but right away it took me down. I, I got up, I was very good at falling down, letting that, uh, the canvas be your springboard to like maneuver into something else, just like I had to train normally. So that's what I did. Um, took me down, I stood or find a way, and when you do that to somebody, that kills you. Well, man, it's a lot to get that takedown, like, especially how he, how he does it, he picks people up, like you're picking up 240 pounds, dropping down the ground, and then within an instant, they're up and away. Like that kills you, that, that kills you, that kills your cardio, that also kills your, your will to like, I can't keep him down. So why am I going to keep doing this? I'm just going to time myself out. So I made it a stand up game. So we fun to stand up, and he didn't like to get hit. So that's when I could start working. Yeah. Yeah. How long was it before you fought him? Your career up to that point. I might have been, uh, 10 or 11, I know I think, um, something, um, I'm not sure like what my record was, but, um, I fought him after November. Um, I fought him, I think 2010, 2010. Yeah. I was 28. Yeah. Yeah. How did you beat him? T.K.L. Stoppage. Um, so, so he's a freak of an athlete. I knew just my coaches, and I knew that we had the recipe, right? But I could see everyone else. Even Daniel tells me later, he's like, man, when you fought him, I didn't tell you, but I was just like, I don't want to be fighting that guy, right? So just how, just how he looks. I mean, he's a freak athlete, you know, putting NFL, national champion wrestler, big dude, right? 25 weight limit, but I mean, he probably cut, who knows how much to make that pure muscle, right? And that's not me. Um, so I knew like everyone around me and they're like, oh, shit, he's going to go fight him. Like, he's going to go, you know, he's going to go die, right? Like, I kind of think, um, and then yes, standing in front of him, like, this is a massive dude right here. Okay. Even though he doesn't like to exchange, he has power. So you can hit with that. It's not going to be good. Okay. So you still got to be cautious everywhere. And then as soon as I remember going out there and fighting and as soon as I tied up with them, like at the first initial, we tied up like this, he had him against the cage. I would say 99% of people, when they get me here, I can maneuver myself out of there pretty easily by shifting their weight and me getting out with him. I wasn't like, I was stuck. Like, there's so much power pushing me against the cage that I was like, okay, he's not moving. I'm not going to move. I'm not going to get myself out of here. So I can't have to wait until he does something. So I remember like, there's a cannabis and the cage here. Within the cannabis, you have a little slightly little opening, like very like almost nothing. I'm already jamming my foot in there. Like, I got to like make this heart from to like get me, you know, like, take me down. When my jamming my foot in there, like, get my foot nice and in there and like, kind of grounded myself to the to the cage. Well, he picks me up like, like, nowhere. Like, I don't have nothing like just picks my legs up and everything. And but as I'm falling, I'm like, I'm falling like a cat. I'm like, as I'm falling down, I'm going on all fours instead of going on my back and letting him lay on me. I'm falling like a cat. Like, I'm going on all fours so I can just kind of jump up and I did that. So he would stop taking me down after those three, those three attempts that all those three seconds that he got on me. He stopped anymore from there. So got to work to stand up a little bit, like hit him with some shots. And then I took a shot on him and I took him down. Like, and that's ever been done before. I know he's ever like taken him down. So I was like, so but he stayed down there. He didn't fucking like get up right away. He stayed down on all fours. So I guess that working. So I started punching him, you know, from the ground from the like, uh, we're in referee's position. So he was down on all fours all on top of him, punching either side. And then when I hit him, like a couple of really good ones, like let her fire and then like get up time to get up. So he got up. I tried to go in on his leg again and he was so heavy. So I'm like, I don't know. I got to let this go. Like it's too heavy. Let it go. Working on the feet again. And then I think he kind of like came in maybe for a shot and I kind of want like a hook or something like a body like his face, his face in my hand, like perfectly timed as he was coming in. So I hit him with that. He started like doing these 360 like spins. Like he's just like he's trying to gather his feet. I don't know if it rocked him or what, but he's trying to gather his feet. He's doing these like spins. And I'm like slowly, I'm not running to him. I'm like slowly like, I learned this from years and years of training until like, so make it hurt. You don't know what you have. You don't know what state they're in. I mean, it looked like they're not that or whatever, but you can't just like jump and pounce on them because you don't know what state that they're in. So I was very used to like methodically just slowly. I just honestly thought him followed him like, okay, what am I going to get when he turns and faces me or if he falls, it's a face to me. Hit him with a couple of punches. And a fun cotton with a good knee like his head went down. I fucking just pull my hip into that shit dude right into his face. Dropping from there. And then his other fights when he got in trouble in the striking. Even though he doesn't like to get hit, it's like he's knocked out. Okay, so he's more like covering up like like waiting for you to be done or waiting for you to tie your stuff out. Right? So I knew, okay, I can't do that with him. We had to pick my shots, make sure they're so he's nice and comfortable like this. So he's not moving to get up. But when he was belly, and I just started opening his hands up and like throwing elbows in there. And I cut him pretty big like big old, big old cut on his face. But I was just doing that. Moving out of his hands out of the way. So I wasn't hitting his hands and like hit elbow, punch him. To where he stood up again, knocking down again. And then I just saw the referee coming closer and closer like it's about to be stopped so I can't pay that in the attention. I just keep working, keep hitting those shots, keep hitting those shots. You can get shots in, then the referee stopped it. And, yeah, yeah, the referee stopped it. I remember that moment like, it was like, everything you worked for was for this moment, right here. Everything you've ever done was for this moment right here. And, if I was, dreams come true. Like, fucking, they do, they fucking come true. Like, they do, no limitations. No limitations, they come true. That moment was that. Like, dreams come true. Everything you worked for was for this one moment right here and you fucking did it like, you did it. I remember that, it was that right there that moment. Yeah. It's crazy you remember every detail of the fight like that. Yeah. From 2010, 16 years ago. Yeah. I just think I'm so like, I was so present in that moment and everything. Like, I'm examining, I'm calculating, you know, I'm so into them, I'm not thinking about anything else. Like, nothing else. Like, but what's in front of me right here right now. So you're so hyper focused on what's in front of you. And then just that moment of when it was finished, it was like, this is why you do things you do. This is why you, this is why you struggle right here. This is why you put the work in, this is why you kill yourself. Like in all these places, like, this is what it's for right here. Not for the belt, no, but to say, but to climb that mountain and be at the top, that's what it's for. What's your thought process afterwards? I mean, there's nothing left to climb. Yeah. It was like, it was so weird afterwards. It was like, what just happened? Because it just felt like a dream, you know, like too good to be true kind of thing. And can you know, can you even believe in myself? Like kind of thing. Then as much as it like the tension that I got after that was way more. Like to where people started, like, even in the U.S., it started to treat me a little different. Like that night, the hotel that they had me, they put me on a better hotel, you know? I was like, what? And I was like, what? Like what just happened? And I remember I had a, a night club. Like I would normally do night, nightclub appearances after the fight to like making more extra money, you know? Nightclub I went to that night. It was like the whole nightclub was just staring at you, right? Like music's playing. Nobody's dancing, nobody's doing their thing. They're just looking at you, right? And it's just like, I just feel fucking, like again, that awkwardness of notoriety, of attention being proud on me came back. I was like, this is fucking weird. You know, I was just like, do what I accomplished is something different. Like I'm still the same person that I've always been. Why, like, is something to learn from? Did you ever get used to that? And then I have fighting has really gotten me to a place to open myself up a lot more. How did you get used to that? I'm curious. Practice because people, when you reach a certain level of fame, people look at you, they get excited, they freeze up. They can't believe it, it's you. They can't believe what you look like. When you're not on TV, people get to be, you know, they get to get to a point where they have a loss of words. Yeah. Yeah. And then I've maybe experienced like a fraction of what you have, but it is awkward. And it, like, that's what I say. And that's what I think. I'm like, yeah, same person. Yes. It's just practice, for me, it was just practice. I could do it over and over again. More interviews I did, the more I opened up, and got okay with letting people inside. Those interactions, those one-on-one interactions, like, what really helped me with that is that it's all people, I started seeing like my family and them, I started seeing like cousins, people that I grew up with. You made yourself family and them. Whether it was a stranger talking to me, I don't know where, like, I saw a familiar, like them very familiar to me as like, oh, you're just like my cousin. Like, you're just like them, right? So I started seeing something very familiar in people, a closeness, like, like, you're not just a fan. No, no, you're somebody else, but yes, you enjoy, like, what I do, and all you're doing is giving praise or creating that connection. You know, you're connected with me at acknowledging me, and I'm acknowledging you. The way I started thinking about it, 'cause I would think I went through all phases of it, like, don't bother me, like, people asking me who I, like, hey, are you Cane lost? Like, no, it's not me, right? Like, I went through all those areas of avoiding it. Even people, like, sign autographs. Like, I'd make sure that I would personalize 'em, so they wouldn't sell 'em, right? So all of that, like, I avoided it at all. Until I really started seeing the familiar sides to people where they're acknowledging me, now I'm acknowledging you, okay? Because there's something deeper within you. And, and the higher level, I just felt like, well, this is what you're doing. Like, this is what's brought before you. Like, God has put you in this every position, including you to interact with somebody in that moment. That's how you're written right there, too. So, as you're acknowledging me, I'm acknowledging them, and I'm giving them time now. I just started doing that. I started being patient with people, being time with them, spending time with them, even if it's a short interaction, but I opened myself up to give them time, to give 'em myself. - Were you married at the time? - Yes. - Do you have a daughter at the time? - Yes. - How much time were you willing to give people that you don't know, and take away from your wife and daughter? - That was the hardest part right there was, as doing family time together, as eating, you know, and being disrupted in that way, to take a picture, doing family things. Remember, with my time, with my wife being, you know, in a kiss together, to being disrupted, to take a picture, right? - Mm-hmm. - So, just the more that I dealt with it, I just realized, like, to have a balance with it, the best way that I could was, yes, there are certain times where you can, like, interrupt somebody, and sometimes that aren't, most appropriate, but, people don't know what they're doing, you know? And the best way to do it is to let your family understand what's going on beforehand. So, it's not necessarily anymore that you can bugged, or that you're being bothered, it's more of, look, I'm talking to my kids, it's like a look, I've done these things in my past, people love me for that, okay? And they just want time. That's it, like, the time I give you, like, I give you all of my time, like, when I'm with you here, they just want to live a bit of time, to say hi, to the picture, to say thank you, and that's it, okay? So now. putting gas in or something like that, like popping gas. Somebody sees me and my kids just seeing that like, and they say, hey, and I say, hey, what's up? Have a cool little interaction, where my kids think I knew them no longer they a stranger. They're like, did you know them? Who was that? Like, I don't know. He said his name was so-and-so, but he just wanted to say hi, the picture, right? So me accepting it more and being, again, I'm called to do this, like this is written already in my life to do this at this moment right here. Every moment that I'm living is made exactly for me, perfectly. So how do I want to go through it all? And now, with those interactions, I just give. I give, I share, I acknowledge them, you know? So thank you, thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for, and it's no longer, it's no longer, it's easy. It's easy. It's beautiful, beautiful connections that we make, just a quick little, you know? Like, I appreciate the souls coming together and interacting. Yeah, right on, good morning B. Yeah, yeah, you make life what you make it, you know? Like, however you want to be in life, you can make it. So if I want to be in love with life every day, and I gotta be, that's gotta be within me. And I gotta let that out. People are gonna gravitate towards that. It's super, and I gotta like it at all, either. That's okay too. But that's not, nothing's gonna take me away from me loving life of what God is doing for me every moment of every day. Every moment is for me to go within and understand myself. There are no accidents that, it's all written, it's already there, it's in life, it's unfolding in front of you, for you, for me, to grow into what I need to grow into. How do I want to do that? Well, that's the case. And I'm gonna fucking dive deep into it and make this life as magical as I can. That's what I'm gonna do. And I'm gonna share that with people, whether you like it or not, that's just me. And I'm gonna share it. Have you talked to Brock Lesnar, Sunson? Did you talk to him after that fight? We did a, we did a WWE wrestling match afterwards. - You did? - I did a wrestling match with him. He kinda fucked me over on that. 'Cause I'm not a wrestler like him, you know? So I'm like, dude, let's do something together so he can fuck and make this shit look good. And he's just not there with that, like to work with people like that, you know? But yeah, yeah, he talked a little bit. And I think we had him better understanding of like who we are, just a little, you know? Like, I'd rather take a personal match. It's, you know, we fucking did it back then. It's all good. - You guys talk today? - Huh? No, no, I don't think he talks to many people in general. And I don't talk to many other fighters either. But like we follow each other, I follow people on social media guys that I follow with. Follow them, I like their stuff, you know? Like support them, you know, and that. And whatever I can do for them, one there, you know? Whatever they need, like I'm there. I would love, I would love to take some of those guys and do some plant medicine with them. I would love to do that. Have a healing session with all of our guys that I battle with. Who do you admire today? (silence) - Admire? - It's in the ring. - Hmm? - It's fighting. - Fighting? - Oh, uh. I don't watch fighting too much, but I see a lot of likes of the bat. I see a lot of like, uh, people's fights later on social media. Um, I like 'em all, you know? I don't think there's any, I'm not like a fan of it. Like I used to be, but I know guys now have certain skills. Like, um, I think, uh, Islam, one of my teammates, there could be these guys that, uh, it could be even in Islam. Islam, um, it's fucking so skilled in the game. Like, fucking get it everywhere to where, when he was coming up, I'd spar with him, like, light sparring. And he, he didn't move his stuff. And nobody here's moved his stuff. But he, he moved his stuff. I'm like, what the fuck did that come from? Like, some like, this guy's good. But everybody has something great that brings, that they bring to the table and I enjoy just what the sport, what the sport is now. I feel like it's gone so popular and I knew it was gonna happen. It's gone so popular, it hasn't gotten so polished, so good everywhere. That it's getting to a place or pretty where and there and easy to be. Like, people know that this is, this is a high level combat sport at the highest level. And it's opened up the, the, the way to the bottom of who was doing jiu-jitsu. A lot more people wrestling now in high school, you know, girls wrestling in college, one of the fast-schooling sports in the world, it is. I believe it all has to do with mixed martial arts and the UFC. You know, mixed martial arts in general and the UFC's the pinnacle, yes, yes. So it's opened up all these doors and I felt like when I was in it, it was in a stage of going through that door. It wasn't there yet. I remember going, they had me do a lot of publicity stuff in Mexico. So when I first started fighting, they knew I spoke, you know, since Spanish and all that, my background that I could be a good, like, a good person to go there and help the sport growing Mexico and like Latin speaking countries. And when I first got there doing like PR with like newspapers and TV, dude, they looked at me like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, what do you, like, they couldn't believe that me, like, they come with Porcho, which is like raising the US. Don't know that gets Spanish, you know, like, you're bringing this sport over to here. Like a sport like the sport that's fucking cock fighting for humans, you know, and that's sort of, that's what it looked at back then. No shit. So I looked at back then and people that are not, again, they didn't know anything about it that were, they were ignorant to it were, yeah, like this is just Street fighting. Like it's not even a fight, it's not even a sport, whatever, you know, and that's kind of how I got that was like the, my first couple of times that being welcomed into Mexico. Supporting a brand, a sport, right? To where for me to do it again, it was like all those things are like growing up. Like I grew up speaking Spanish first, my first language. Okay, then I went to school where I didn't speak English that well. And it was like, okay, well, you don't, it was almost like, yeah, you don't fit in. Okay. And then as I started speaking more English and my, my buzz and sister spoke English, my mom could speak English very well. So we spoke English at the home naturally. So I started losing a lot of my Spanish because my dad was always working to where I had people on the other side, more Mexican Spanish speaking people to where like, you know, let's be big, big of a Spanish. So it was again, like I didn't fit in anywhere, right? I'm not good here. I'm not good here. My parents would say the same thing. I don't feel like you guys either, like, I don't go, like, I pray again, like, I don't go fuck, like, I'm going with in. I know it isn't, like, it doesn't matter how great I can speak any fucking language. I can barely speak English sometimes, you know? Like, like, like, what about this? Like, what about this? What about this? Like, no, you're basically, so I want to do that again, right? I'm so city, like, doing that. And again, I just had to be like, dude, it's kind of how to laugh at it than interviews. I just laughed at it and said, look, this is what the sport is. You're going to love it later on. And I just know you will, but it's okay if you don't either. But this is what I got, you know, I just had to give up. "Hey man, and then with winning?" winning more and more really about me winning more and more about it more popularity to it, especially in that in that area of the world. What are your parents Lincoln? They're just proud, man, they're just happy, proud, like, well, but like, yeah, they're just, you know, they come to the fights. They did, they were coming some of the fights. They come some of the fights, you know, family members, co-workers, people in town just showing them love, you know, like, yeah, yeah, it was, uh, yeah. Who was your first loss? First loss against, uh, Judith Asantos. Yeah, um, I got to knock that pretty quick. The first loss, um, so I don't think my dad watched any more fights after that. Really say those hard watch. Yeah, it's hard, it's hard from watch. I can understand why, um, but one is the one is the last time you had lost. I mean, before that, yeah, was it, was it college wrestling? Yeah, college wrestling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, college wrestling. Um, yeah, that was a good, I mean, that was a good learning lesson to again, you know, it was a big show. I had a lot of pressure going in and I was kind of injured going in as well. Like, when he was pretty injured or I couldn't, I couldn't kick, I couldn't even like wrestle. I couldn't get down, like, take somebody down to what I needed to do for him for junior was to do that. So I wasn't the best going in, but I, but I also rushed it as well. I was like, well, instead of taking time off and telling him hurt and taking more time to, like, recover and all that, I just went ahead and did it without with, like, I don't want anybody down, you know. So I learned, like, and John junior did his thing, man, he's a great athlete, great fighter took me out pretty quick. So, um, I understood, like, look, make sure you're 100% correct for everything before you do anything. Make sure you're prepared how you have to be because some of you like him, you can't do that going in. There's no way, there's no way. Even, even at your best, like, it's slim to win against him. So he, with junior man, I love him for the competitive that he is, like, he brought out something in me that I had it, like, I had it, like, really dig deep for, you know, it was like, it was like the fights with him were like my masterpiece right there, like, but with only, with only an opponent like him with that, what'd it bring this out of me? You know, so, yeah. How did you, I mean, how did you process that loss after not losing for years and years and years? I was good with it. It was fine. Yeah. And I was just, I knew what I, again, I understood what I did to, to not win, you know, I understood that and it's okay. It's like, it's all good. I feel like people around me really started like, like, coaches and stuff, really, like a freak them out more. And that was, that was the hardest part was to like, not not have air, have you mean, have air? We're always very good here. We're always, we're always on the same level. But some people started saying like the heavier changed the game plan to only stand up with it with him, but they like say, what? You wouldn't, you wouldn't hear the whole camp, you know, I couldn't wrestle, you know, like, you know, when I was going into, into a fight with, so that was the hardest part of the people around me just sort of like, I had to like, buck them away and just like, look, it's okay. It's okay. All right, I know what I have to do. Like, what you guys are doing right now freaking out is not doing anything. It's not doing any good. It's messing me up. So like, leave, you know, leave kind of thing. Yeah. So no, I just knew like, you have to be prepared. You have to be ready. If somebody like him, you got to be fucking polished, you know, and training for him the second, my second fight. So I got, I got a, I fought big foot after that. I knocked him out and also, I'm not knocked him out. I got TKO and he, I cut him up pretty bad. He was fucking bloody, you know, really like bloody. So Junior really helped me get that hunger back. Like more hungry. Okay. And then when I fought him the second time, man, I fucking digged into like everything that I had. I went into like the dark with it, you know, that like, I want to fucking really die out there. I'm going to give you everything I have. Everything. I don't care. I'm fucking get so tired that I fall nothing, nothing. I'm going to keep this up the whole time. 25 minutes nonstop. I'm going to be on you. I'm going to attack you every which way. When I really had to go to a dark place for that, like, I'm going to go out and kill. If he dies, as we're doing it, fine. That's what I'm looking for. And if I die doing it, then that's okay as well. So I really went into like a dark place with myself of, like, this is what needs, this is where you need to be in order to beat a person like him. This is where you have to be spiritually mentally. Like, you're going to go out and punish. Yeah. Did your final fight was in 2019, correct? 2018 or 2019? Yeah. How did that go? Is that good? Did you know before it happened that this was getting close to the end? Yeah, I did. You did. I did. I just think the way that I work, I get bored with things, if that makes any sense. Like, like, it was wrestling. I got, like, it got to a point where I got boring. Like, I understood it so much that it wasn't teaching me that much anymore. Same with fighting. I've done it so much at that moment. It wasn't teaching me anymore. Like, I needed to be taught. So I was getting bored with it with how much I gave and how little it was giving me back. So I remember going to that fight, right as I'm walking to the cage, I ask, as a God, I say, I said, God, if this is all that life is right here, I don't want anymore. So you show me what it is. Please, I want more than this and what this is right now. So that's what I said going in. I got hit right away as I came into a shot. I was knocked out on my feet. As I fell down, I fell over my leg, like, really, like, tore everything in my knee except for my ACL. So if I were going to even go to fight after that, like, it'd be, no, you know, I wasn't going to happen. So I'm going to tell, okay, I had this conversation with God at the moment that I want something else out of life more than what I've been used to. I didn't know what I was asking for. So I did do a loop, a loop, a loop, a loop or a match after that, what the whole knee brace on and everything, like, my knee was pretty jacked up. And I was telling people that I was going to do this, this lucha match. And I'm like, how am I going to do it? My knee jacked up like this, you know, like, that was a crazy story. It went in, it was like the week of the match. I practiced lucha here and there at a place in San Jose, but I was like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, you know, at all, like nothing. I'm now the week of the show and it's the biggest show of the year in AAA. So all these fans of mine know that I'm going to do this match, and I don't know what I'm doing, one at all, right, but I'm promoting it. I don't know what the fuck I'm going to wear or anything, right? Nothing. Like, I got nothing. I'm like fucking stupid, you know, like, and in the day before, the night before, fucking it all comes together. It was like, it was like, Again, it was like it was a very spiritual. It was just like time like a moment. It was like nothing's coming together Nothing is already nothing's planned nothing And then all of a sudden the night before it fucking all comes together everything I Mean I get the whole outfit, you know all that Fucking looks good. I cool. I know what I'm doing the night before Like we piece it all together and like I do like they ask me like What do you want to do out there? They're thinking okay, come on maybe me do something my stuff I like no, no, no, I want it some luscious stuff. I'm not fucking do some flips and shit, you know Like and then okay, can you do this? I'm like well show me how to do it. Let me see if I can do it So everything they did they showed me how to do and I learned it right there that night. Okay, I'll do that So we did the whole choreography all that right I find like good good. We got it all packed Did that do the show that night and it fucking blew up like Surprise so many people by doing yeah, yeah, dude. I was like Again, I was like God like what the like what the fuck? I don't know what I'm doing and then it all came together And then the show was great like better than expected it felt like after I won like it gets Brock People are like look at me like what the fuck does happen? I'm like, I don't know. I have no idea Yeah, yeah, so I was just crazy like It's almost like you just God and do it like even if you're not prepared. I don't know. I was weird. Mm-hmm. Did that prepared? She's always looking for a challenge. That's kind of what I've meant after you beat Lesnar. I mean You're you hit the top of wrestling you got bored you hit the top UFC So eventually you got bored How do you find the next thing? I mean does it just you know? Just come to you. Yeah, it does. I'm ready for it Do It just comes to you man. I Know that that drive the energy needs to go somewhere else And hopefully it's somewhere positive somewhere that again that love needs to go to something to something else Whatever way that is That love needs to transfer constantly the other things. So delusia for here and there a little bit and then I'm just open to receiving I'm open to receiving even if like I don't know what I'm what's gonna be doing next It somehow finds me and like, oh, there's something here. Okay, let me go there. Let me learn about that. So 2020 After my career going down I Just got cut from WWE because I just need development, you know, like it's a different whole different dance all this like My mom passed away that year. Yeah, I was gonna say you know, 2019 was your last fight and also Your mom and your brother has to wait just a few months apart. Yeah, what happened? So my mom's had life like Where's under her life with very in mobile? Very what like and she's very out in mobile so she can move around much, you know, so quality of life had to like So if in their life was sitting in a lot laying down a lot, you know kind of bedridden a lot osteoporosis diabetes and then I saw yeah, I just saw like The medical side of it of how All these things that she was taking her like make it feel better She had to take all these other things to like kind of act the things she was taking so It was kind of weird. It was kind of weird to like be exposed to that and from her, you know from like from watching her Um so She's been reading a lot Yeah, she wouldn't actually just passed um, but that to me for for that was more of like a It was like a weight weight lifting being it's like a weight being lifted. Okay. It was more like happy. She's gone, you know, she's not struggling to do more or she's not um Yes, she's free, you know, so that was more that it was time and We talked and everything before all that And she asked me once she asked she was like how'd I do, you know like in life, right how did I do you ask you then? Yeah I said my you're fucking perfect That's awesome, man Yeah She was better she fucking was so like mommy that's like perfect do the best So yeah, it's good to give her that Well she knew, you know she knew That's good to share that with her Yeah, then I saw I just saw her transferred to the other side like It was in different life. She wasn't here. I Minded with somewhere else. She's in different place from realm You know choose like a newborn looking out Looking out not really thinking anything right I knew it was time. Yeah, she let those It was good as peaceful Yeah, my brother had He got into a long life of just a lot of substance abuse I think a lot of things just really messed with them in his life Like school, I think really it was hard on him But he was always anger within him Didn't put into the right places to keep on wrong places and he started doing a lot of a lot of drugs like methamphetamines Yeah, going into Alcohol as well a lot of alcohol and He got off the methamphetamines and then he needed well, he got into alcohol like a lot really hard core And again, that was something that was new to me. I didn't understand What all that was so I saw first hand through him like He told me about like him having stomach ulcers Time of time going to the hospital against you know stitched up And then give now, you know, and I didn't realize like that's the that's a road to go down Like when they're that heavily drinking and I'm talking about like Dude couple bottles like Just hardcore just drinking it just not feel so much To a point where you can't you can even get off of it Isn't that that would kill him so He was at his at our house. I'm showing. I um They never trying to help him get sober and all that was a working So he started doing like towards the end of the life and John this and John is luresh a town. Yeah, luresh a town And again, I fucking I didn't I didn't know but I I didn't know like what all that meant, you know more so just like saw him front of me like Yeah, and then Yeah, one day he had like a big stomach ulcer stomach just ruptured Got the call from a shell that he's in the hospital Took him an ambulance came picked him up to come and he's bleeding everywhere so Went to the hospital and he was just fighting for his life and it was like a water faucet of blood coming out Yeah, so Yeah, I watched him do that Yeah That was hard. That was fucking hardest thing I ever gone through the moment. What was that? We're watching him just helpless fucking Go through then I was just so like Also mad at him too, you know like this is what you wanted right here, right? Can you give him like a moment of grace at the moment? I was so into like Like like you know what you're doing as well right, signing gig. and given that moment of his last like moments with us was someone of that. Yeah, so yeah, so what would you say to him now? Yeah, the opportunity to say one last thing. I've already said it. I love him. Thank you for being the best big brother. Yeah, I've already had to hear what that we've already talked. We know where we stand and it's not, it's not for the downs that we're in. It's not. The way that I learned from that for that moment was to take myself out of the picture. Take my emotions out of the picture. No matter what, no matter who's gone through anything at that moment, if they're leaving this earth, you give them their time, no matter what, you do that. Appreciation, you do that, you know, so it tells me a hard lesson bit right there and we had love between us. We did a big time, so I had to just focus on what the great things he's done in this earth, the great things that he showed me, how he took care of me, you know, and my heart was there to help him, but he just couldn't help himself at that moment. Yeah, so, yeah, um. Yeah. Did you do your first ayahuasca ceremony one year on the one year anniversary? I didn't. Yeah. So yeah, it's going at the end of my career and also mainly having that death with my brother and that and the way that he passed was fucking hard and difficult. So after that, I saw a medium. Somebody speaks to the other side. That helped me put him in a rest a lot because I had conversations with him of him just saying, like, look, I don't know what I was doing. I'm sorry, but it's simple, you know. I don't get how we live his death over and over again, like that. I don't, like, I really live the things we live we've gone through in life. So that helped me like, okay, like, yes, yes, like, yes, that's like, look at the great things, the positive things. Well, well, we taught each other like the love between us. That's all that matters. That love between us. That's it. So, that helped me. Um, well, that night when he passed away, man, that was the first night I ever left my body. You left your body. I didn't see that. I got in, I got home and Michelle and I were just talking over, like, what just happened. Like, everything we're just like and, like, so traumatized over what just happened. And as I was sitting there, like, laying, like, kind of like laying down, I just decided to let, let go fully. So I let go of everything, like, I let go of myself for a moment. Like, I don't care anymore. I'm not attached to this anymore at this moment. So that trauma really, like, it helped me let go. So I, yeah, I left, left my body for a moment. I felt like a lifting, like, I was leaving. And that made me, made me do that. Um, so we get into, we get into that year. I already started processing of, like, putting them away, you know, like, doing all of that. And then, um, my friend of mine, a good friend of mine, tells me about a ceremony that he just did. And so I don't ask a Saturday, a five-year meal, DMT Sunday. And he explains to me everything that happened in the ceremony, at his experience. And just off his experience, I said, oh, I don't think I have to do it, because you explained it. I got it, right? But then he tells me the day that it's on, Santa Roche and my brother's passing. He said, okay, I'm about to be there. Um, did no research. No intentions. I just felt like I had to be there for a reason. I didn't know what. So I shopped. And don't know anything about ceremonies in general at all. This where I went to was more like a one day in, do sound and get out. So no introduction, no integration, did not even do anything about anything. I don't, I'm just fucking in the show up, right? I just feel like I have to be here. So first day is ayahuasca, start, uh, they give you cups and they give you, you know, as much as you want, like every hour or so, cups, you want to keep, you know, keep going in deeper into the, into the experience. So as soon as I felt the medicine, it felt like I know this medicine more than I know myself. I felt like what ayahuasca was. I know that more than all myself. That was very familiar to me as if I've been there before, as I've done this before. So as soon as I felt the experience, I said, I'm with you on everything you want to do. I'm with you. You show me what you need to show me. And my first experience, I first started looking at my family. Each one individually and saw them, I saw them more than whatever I've ever seen of them. Um, I understood them more than I ever understood them. Like the little things like my daughter, for instance, I saw her so much, like I finally understood her now than before I didn't. The way that I was trying to be a father was what I thought was supposed to be a father was we expect these certain things to be a good person. To her now, I just, I saw her in her essence of what she was bringing to me. And that was, I saw the love in her. I saw the beating her, all of it in the quirks and all that like them, like where you think our shortcomings, like that's all her own essence of beauty. And I saw that there. Finally, like, oh, like I understand you might now more than ever. And I understood family and friends a lot more than ever. And my job as a parent is to be there unconditionally with love. That's it. You need something for me, wisdom, whatever right here, whatever you want. But I'm going to love and support you no matter what with kindness, with acceptance. I'm not going to freak out. You tell me you did something like, no, you did this? Okay. Well, I can help. Okay. I can help this way. I'm here for you to hold space like you cry, whatever, man, I'm with you. It's all good. Do whatever you need to do. I'm here. I love you no matter what. So I saw everybody like that. I even saw people that I didn't even like, like, and I appreciated them for what they were showing me. And that was themselves to like have me growing to something much more pure in myself. Even if somebody I don't like, even if somebody doesn't see the same things I do, they're like, shit, heads, if they're fucking bad people, but they're essential for my growth no matter what. So everybody's essential. So I appreciate everybody for being on their own authentic authentic self at the moment, right? And then dude, I feel like I just had like, I felt like my heart got unlocked. I think I totally, because we're always going to keep growing, but my heart got it so unlocked than what I knew before. my mind, my soul got them locked to either and these things that I got were downloads or it was just stuff that I remember finally. I believe the fullness is already within us. We just got to remember, you know, like all the things are already within us. We just got to remember. That's it. It's already there. You've got to outsource it. It's right there. It's already in here. So I feel like there's so much that I understood. I find it like of more more than understood of God, more than I understood of life, that life is, life is perfectly made for me, for you, for me, exactly every moment to you to grow into what you need to grow into, to essentially ascend. Okay. So if it's made for me exactly every moment for me to grow into that, now how do I go through it? Do I go through with resistance? Now I go through acceptance, the grace, with love and compassion. Me seeing that, I said, oh, okay. So I need to make my life more loving. Like I need to be in a love story with my life every moment. Even if it's just me by myself, I need to have a love story with me. It starts with me. So I felt like I had a new lease on life where I understood a lot more. I felt like everybody needed to do something like this and this type of medicine at that time. So I've, again, with no integration, you had came this one day and then within a week or two, you had came this other way. So it was a lot for people to take in, especially my closest family and friends. And that wasn't even the five-year-old trip. Yeah. I've done I was, I've done I began I have all the times, and twice, and five of me are here for more times, psilocybin. I've had good experiences of had horrific experiences. How is that? Change your interpretations of God, if it has. From what I was taught and what I could perceive from people teaching it to me at a young age, to me experiencing what I experienced and what I see now with my experiences with it. So when I had a five-year-old trip, I died off of that. I had a good ego death though that I know was ego, like I just knew I was dying on it. And the ton of death I was filled with so much love, like endless amounts of love, to where I was ready to go. I was going to say that I came back and didn't even matter, like that none of it mattered, but being in a state of love. So I so I fully let go. My consciousness left my body, but became everything else, after that. So as I left, my consciousness expanded, and I became the trees, I became the earth, I became space, and I became beyond. So I was all of it, yet nothing as well, all that wants. And the message that I got there that was fucking ingrained into my soul from now on is there's only one here. A lot of different versions, we want to say that, but there's only one here. God is the only one that exists. That's it. God is within me. I'm looking out at myself. That's my viewpoint. That's from my experience. I know people have different viewpoints. The oneness. The oneness is the only thing that exists at all different levels, teaching itself to get back to the higher. So we're at Matt now with it. I am here as myself learning from myself, experiencing myself, always. Now there's depths to the self. That's a forever ongoing thing. Where I'm at with it right now is that I'm interacting with myself all the time. Myself is guided myself. There's no you or I. There's only I am. That's it. Different versions in this earth plane to help us on the path of ascension, getting out of the third dimension. It's a forever learning of yourself. That's all we have. Time, space, just here now. That's it. So that was that was ingrained into me at that moment. To where looking at myself. I'm seeing the sunset. It's me. How beautiful is I? Having compassion for animals now. Because there is no you or I. There's a oneness. And there's always there's a forever depth of knowing yourself. More, there's more. The bigger you deep. The more you go out like the more you go within, more will be shown to you. It's how much you want. But you gotta look for it. You gotta dig deep for it. You gotta keep keep on the journey. Just take a good break. 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Guy walks through a train station, pulls a phone out of his jacket, makes one call, drops it in a trash can and keeps walking. Clean. That's not Hollywood. That's trade craft and the principle behind it is simple never let one piece of your life connect to another here's your problem you've got one number it's on your bank account it's on your kids school forms the pizza place the dating app the guy who sold you your truck one number in every part of your life is wired to it that's not a phone that's a map to your front door and it's for sale glacier gives you burner numbers any us area code you want hand it out use it in the second it starts filling up with spam calls or somebody you'd rather not hear from again you delete it it's gone make another one that's the loud half here's the quiet half right now sitting in your pocket your phone is talking apps you're not even using are calling out to servers you've never heard of telling them where you are what you look at what you buy you never approved it it just happens all day every day glacier secure DNS cuts those calls before they connect not after before two days after we launched I checked my own phone 837 trackers blocked before lunch this is intelligence grade protection the kind of thing that used to cost tens of thousands of dollars of phone and only went to people with clearances now it's an app and it could be yours and I want to be straight with you I'm not reading somebody else's ad I'm a co-founder of this company I put my name my money and a year of my life into building this alongside the people who did the work for real I use it every single day install the app hit connect and you're protected that's it it's that simple the glacier app.com or find glacier in the app store remember privacy is in paranoia it's protection ready to roll under your son where do we start so when I was coming back from my five-year-old team T trip I spoke to God again and I said I worked for you now everything I do for you everything I do is I do for you so you continue to show me put the path out of front of me and do it so my life changed big time not just internally but externally my wife at the time Michelle we're just all the different journey I felt discovery not that you couldn't coexist can and we have been able to do that but I like had to go out and learn I don't want to learn which was I don't know the divine through plant medicine but also learning from being by myself all to nature well I got into everything I got into a lot of religions I got into the cult as well what cult what cult the cult so yeah so I like hermetic teachings but don't they Atlantian all everything just really spoke well to me all of it didn't so religions I started learning more about different religions as well I just Christianity so I saw spiritual work as mixed martial arts and that's how I see it now is that I can learn from everybody I perform a way of doing certain things I can take it into myself and take the parts that I think are very beneficial the parts that I don't think are very beneficial I leave them and I know that the spiritual teachers everywhere they got to face the planet real people that are blackbelts but not all blackbelts are the same so knowing that the power is within you it's not somebody externally they can teach you some things yes they can they don't have all the answers no one not all one person does so I realize just like in in remain and just do so we could be a blackbelts but there's levels to it as well and they maybe get at certain certain things but they're not good at other things you get a teaching they may not be good at certain techniques their body type so I really saw it that way I have discernment have boundaries set up with myself with other people more so than what I did before on extracting what makes sense to me and putting that in to the way that I want to put it into and how I wanted to form it within me and out and whether it's truth or whether it's not if it's love if it's wisdom compassion then all that's truth it is it was anything outside of that that I don't take that with with me and I don't tell people that's the wrong way of doing things no like let them do them let people do them let I read the teachings what I did what I get out of it but I can make it make sense for me and have it speak to me then I try to dive deeper with it I try to go deeper with deeper understanding and how can I do that well just my train of thought by dissecting things trying to make make sense for me and trying to teach me so essentially I'm open to all even the darkness but the darkness is more of I know that is not truth then why are you open to it I'm open to it I'm open to it but I don't let it come in me I have discernment over that I have discernment over all darkness okay what I am this child of the divine child of light tell the truth tell the love so but I can go into some dark places as well if you push me there okay so I know that's what they mean as well I choose to be this way but if I have to I'll go there and I'll go just as dark as you or even darker okay so don't fuck with me like you do that cross our minds you don't do that so those are the boundaries that have up why do I open up to it better I don't let it in I need to know what your objective is I need to learn what your train of thought is I need to know what you're trying to do here on this earth that's the poison my brothers and sisters now fuck that what I'm doing that okay so I choose to walk a certain path the divine path of truth I'm not perfect but I choose to walk down this path and I walk down it with dignity with respect with with grace and all things and I may mess up here in there I will and it's given I'm still learning I'm always learning but I might take those mistakes and I'm going to transmit them and there's something positive because I have that choice as well to do that so I learn from everybody if it doesn't line up to me I won't take it in if it turns out the people if I can put a stop to it I will and somewhere or another so that's I see it it's interesting it's learning your your enemy you know it's learning your enemy's objective if I don't know what I'm fighting against I'm not going to fight against them I'm going to prepare myself how do you learn it Just by whether it's things are like reading, yeah, I take things out that speak to me that are true, and things that aren't lined up with me, I don't take them. I say, "Okay, well, this is what you're about," and the only way I can know somebody is really by send out of them, conversating with them, so I can't judge you, I can't judge you what you look at, or what you think you're associated with, I can't, I can't, because we haven't had time to spend time with each other and conversate and hang out with each other to know what you're about. So I can't judge you for one thing you said, I can't judge you for what things that you're practicing, because you may carry yourself differently. So I'm open to a lot of things, but I don't let everything in with me, I don't, and I realized for my journeys that the darkness, the, it's not truth, it's not real, it's an illusion, there's only one truth, that's love, that's it, everything else is fake, yeah, someone may kill me, but I go home, this is not my home, I'm learning here, that's it, I have a short amount of time here, that's it, we all do. Who do you think happens when you die, go back home, what a time, God, you're back to the one where we all come from, we all come back from source, we all go back to source, but the one truth, the love, the wisdom, the eternal myth of it all, like our humans words can't even explain that, and I'm, you know, like I can't put, I can't paint you a picture, or what that is, because there's so much to that, that I cannot describe it, and we try to describe it, we'll fight wars over it, what that is, but you, something that's undescribable to human, like, it's, do you think you've experienced that, three or five of me old trip, I've experienced levels of it of what only I could comprehend at the time, yes, for what this physical body can take in, I've experienced as much as this physical body and my mental capacity and my heart and soul can take in at that moment, that's all that I experienced, there's an infinite amount, more, infinite amount more of love, of wisdom that I can't even grasp. I know that, so my job is to dig deeper, is to go within more, is to try and understand more, to be open to the understanding of it all, of everything. Do you believe in a heaven and hell, I do? Well, the way that I see it is, those that put themselves there, mentally, on a soul level, they'll be there, I believe we're all manifest, we're going to manifest, wouldn't that being that the darkness is real? There's nothing's real to love, to the highest form of, of God, that's an illusion, because though we may practice that here on this earth, as you go on the higher planes, that gets erased, because that's a low level of being. And if we have an infinite amount of time, this is how I, if we have an infinite amount of time to know of yourself, you wouldn't be in that place, because it's a low level of being, okay, and we're all going to the same place, well, it takes work, but you're going to be playing with that for so long until you get bored with it and understand that that's not real, it's fake, it's not real. Do you think we all go to the same place? You got to, I think you get bored of it so much that you'll have to, or you just do just stay there, but with you, in the amount of time of growth, I don't understand, I don't understand how people could stay there, but I believe it's possible to stay there, stay at a low level and you do not rise up, like things growing, like plants growing, some die, some grow, some bloom, you know, seeds could drop, they don't even, they don't even have a chance to form, I think all that happens, it does, so it's an internal growth, continuously looking from within, not outward, from within, and you'll get those things that you need to constantly move up, so it is, it is work is a choice, but like after, after infinite amount of time, wouldn't you fucking get tired of that? My thought, wouldn't you get tired of that? I believe, I believe in the other past lives, maybe I, I've been to that space before, like I'm tired of it, realize that's not where it is, you think reincarnation, so you believe in reincarnation, I do, I do, I do, it's helped me so much to be okay with being myself and know that I don't have to rest anything, they know that I'm on my path, and there's no push anywhere, there's no put like, the growth, the growth will come when I'm ready, the continuous growth will come when I'm ready, and us being internal beings, all we have is growth, all we have is a deep knowing of ourselves, and that like that growth is infinite, so if you believe in, let me ask this, if you, I'm just curious, I'm not pushing, I believe you said you had a conversation with your brother, in one of your journeys, did you? Not a conversation, more of an understanding or knowing, a sense of peace, okay, yeah. How could that happen if you believe in reincarnation? He's in a place of, so I don't believe necessarily that we reincarnate right away, like you die and all of a sudden you're, I read story, so looking to a lot of past life regression as well, so Delores Cannon has some good books on past life regression that really helped me understand life lessons, 'cause she goes into, well, somebody goes to her and says I have this anxiety of this, I don't know why, I never been through something like this, okay, so put some third hypnosis, go through a past life regression, and they talk about a past life that they've gone through this scenario where they give control to somebody else, maybe like they don't want a ship or something like that, and then maybe they're controlled to a captain that shouldn't have been a captain, okay, so that person knew wishing to be following this dude, or did it anyways, okay, now what happens, months later, they lost it, see, no food, nothing, every sign, right, what happens to the story is person dies, released from their body, and she asks the collective consciousness, which is the divine consciousness within them, like, well, what did you want them to see in this life, okay, well, we wanted them to see that they're in control of their life, and if they don't feel like, if they have any kind of, if they shouldn't follow somebody for some reason and they shouldn't, they have discernment, you have power within your own self to not do those things, because anything could happen, so it was more of, like, giving the power back to the person, so if we're on an infinite moment of growth, constantly, we're going to be able to see that. raising our vibration to a higher level, and essentially leaving this third dimension, then we have to learn our lessons as some of those masters that have before us, that are taught us the way. So to hold on to things, it's to trust in your power, is to grow from within, is that grow from within the love of higher understanding in order to constantly raise yourself in that. So what you talk about also in that book is, one instance, being reincarnated to do a certain job here on earth, working with plants, working with agriculture, while taking a place of schooling to learn of these things before you reincarnate, and now this is what you're doing here, is learning and teaching people how to grow certain things, and you don't know how you grew it, right, because the memories wiped out, it's a beautifulness of self-discovery over and over again, until you what, this isn't the last plane we constantly move up and up, until we do finally go back to source, and that's just, that's what I believe. It's true, you think, you reincarnate over and over until you go to source, which is a final resting place, which is back home with the all-knowing United as one, finally again, truly United as one, all-knowing, all-being, everything. Yes, so I think this earth plane is a school, it's a certain school, but other masters have to develop, to send, to grow higher than this, no longer, our bodies are like, no longer do we live here anymore. Our level of conscience is going up so much that we no longer have to come back to this anymore, to this third dimension, 3D earth, interesting. Let's move to your Son. So yeah, I went through these ceremonies, through this so much understanding, so much love, right, has conversation with God, that I work for, I work for God now, and we seem to be all good, and challenges came up where Michelle and I were at different interests, you know, growing differently, right? So that was happening, it was me, it was me pushing her away, it was me, it was me thinking I had to do something else, or knowing that I had to do something else, and that I couldn't, I couldn't be near in a relationship where I wasn't doing my all, I wasn't fully committed, just that I had to go grow, and I maybe just needed myself to do that. So yeah, one night my son, the bed, and he tells me things that are happening to him, I stay here. You know, I'm so asked questions about what happened, tells me that some how long to do going on, says for a while, right? So we do, we're supposed to do like a report called the authorities, we do that. What did they say? You know, they should get, they should get everybody's is documented down on what, you know, they're going through the process, and understand like there's a heavenly realm, and there's an earthly realm of laws that we got to abide by here on earth. Okay, God's laws are a little different, but you got to do, so you got to be act quarterly. So we do things that are right, correct? We make the report all that. We hear that, the daycare, the son of the four-year-old man, every good art was, was there, and that's when my son told me that, you know, did all this stuff, and I asked him many other kids and he's like, yeah, my son is like, yeah, other kids, yeah, okay? So with the report in, they book him, he gets on on Friday, and that same week, he gets on on Friday with no ankle monitor, nothing, because it's the Friday end of the day and the weekend that are open. So he's out on two days, he's with no ankle monitor on, not back at the daycare, they had daycares at a house, and okay, so that happens, and then just seeing my son and seeing all the trouble has not come out, right, because he just closes. So seeing that hurt in him, breaking down the crime. You could see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let it out, you know, crying, and all this. How long had it been going on? He'd been going there since he was maybe around three years old and he told us at four. So I'm guessing pretty quickly as soon as he was there, and the daycare of the mom and they said that, all that, they ran it. I mean, they were all, they're all into it. They're, they let it all happen, you know, so I was like, okay, they're all guilty too. Like, you'd go in during their daycare, you know, hang out with the kid and then take him to the bathroom and fucking, trying to know that and if I can let it all happen. So grab more information later on that, do that, like, that has been doing it forever. Okay, another community, either son didn't know, right, or son did know, and they're okay with it. So I had her like, okay, there's people in our community that are okay with this. Okay. The person that told us to go there, like we asked around to farm across the street for when we lived and the owner was like, yeah, go there. I went there, whatever, like, whether he knew or not, I don't know. Okay. But now I knew from all this that there's certain families that are okay with this. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I've never been introduced to this at all. Like, I'm always very open with me talking and she worked with Child Protective Services and she'd be open about all this stuff, talking to me about it, talking to me, what's right, what's wrong, you know, and I never dealt with that and families that I, family members that I knew and never dealt with it. So this was all very, just very new to me. Other than my mom, like, prepping before this, like, type of thing. So kind of got opened up by okay. Should we put that no, it's really don't know. It's people that have told us later on, like, the kids opened up and their parents didn't do anything, didn't report it, right, took them out of there. So I saw this as a bigger problem than what it was. Just in the community, I didn't know what all of this was in the world. More recent, more recent things have been coming out. I was like, okay, this should be like in our, it's in our every day. It's in our lives. So me just being exposed to all that. So see my kids break down, seeing Michelle break down. That was, like, prepping my brother. That was before the hardest things. I've not the hardest things to watch them go through their, their hurt in the moment. Watching it and not being able to do anything, but let them go through it. So it was a Monday. We took my son to, uh, to the zoo to kind of get him out of things and get him out of the structure of things and just new head space. Yeah. Um, and okay, we believed the decor would be shut down and we knew. But then like the owner of the daycare patio art, the mom put her a mass email and kept us on it didn't take us off. Saying that all the allegations are false. Like that kid wasn't even here that day blah blah and saying that they're gonna be open on Monday. Right. Which they did the technique he can't, but that like fucking just blew my mind. Like, we did all this and it's still not gonna get stuck with the fuck. You know, like, the system's fucking sucks, it's broken. People don't know what the fuck they're doing. So all these things that are running through my mind, get home from the zoo and I'm like, "Man, should I take a drive?" Like, they do have my gun on me the time. Um, and I had all these thoughts like I wish, you know, like I would see him. Like, what about it that like I'm driving on public. I've never seen him on public ever. Right. Well, that day I saw them. I saw them. I had a conversation with God again. And I said. Well, it was like God told me, like, look, well, they're in front of you now. That what? Right. Okay. Well, I said, God, you know what I'm doing. So you make this however you want. You make this outcome however you want to make it. But you know what I'm doing. Follow them and they went right to pick up Harry, go take them and go to the Enkel Monitor and I lost it. Whatever you would say, having it is I lost it. I fucking lost a will to live. Didn't care about dying, didn't care. Thank you for anything. I was in a different place at that moment. I wasn't maneuvering the parameters of what we call normal life. I wasn't something else. So I do what I did. What did you start talking to your kid about this stuff? Pretty young, like pretty young. Like taking to the bathroom, you know, and like we wouldn't touch them or anything, you know, we'd like to have them. Test their privates and like an aim and do all that, you know, and like. And like we wipe them or anything else like that. We tell them like, look, like your dad and I are the ones that do this, okay. What else does this, right? And you're controlling your own body. So if you don't like something what somebody's doing, even if it's us, you just tell us, okay. This is appropriate. And this is not anything that you don't like. You just say it because you're in charge. So we're just, Michelle is really good about that. She did that is that from a young age, like telling our kids like what's appropriate, what's not appropriate touch. Things that you don't like say it. So yeah, from a pretty young age, like party training, doing that. And it's like now, like look at the signs, like my son started like digressing his party, his party training because that's something that would happen. You know, so he wouldn't even, so he just wet himself versus like. You know, he was progressing and all that and all of a sudden he wasn't like, like what's going on? I don't understand, right? So he's avoiding going to the bathroom. Yeah. So yeah, I did what I did. Went through under Leven Mod Chase, shooting at them. All of them were guilty, so I'm going to got it. Look at the photos now. From the crime scene there. Their truck was shot up and it was. Like that I only hit the stepfather who was in on it. Hit him in the arm, it was like it wasn't like. It had been much worse, right? There wasn't. And look at the crime scene. I was like, wow, like. All of them could have. That's what I was going for. So Leven Mod Chase. Like two gun clips. There was like a stop there. Police during traffic during traffic. So any of the people that I hit. I was trying not to, but I wasn't here. I wasn't so I understand like it hurt a lot of people that weren't even involved. So I wanted to show that night. How long were you and jailed? So. So. I wanted to jail. I was there in nine months before I got. Before I got on Perl order. Yeah. So nine months solitary confinement. But I knew it was part of my path. But whatever reason, right? I knew who was in charge, also really in charge. I knew it was for my betterment. So I didn't let it. I didn't let it fucking break me down. I didn't go crazy in there. Like. I knew I was protected. I knew I was being guided. And at all, I knew that this is for something bigger. I don't know what I don't know. But even just that little, just what's happened in that first day, like. People found out why and everything else like it brought a lot of people together. Made them more open to speak about these certain things. You know, speak about life experiences of these things that have happened to them. Um, so I actually knew that the solitude was a blessing. It was like, okay, you've been at the top, at the bottom. Like you've been all these things in this life. Whenever do we get the chance to have true solitude unless you're like a monk, right? Or be comfortable, truly comfortable with yourself, regardless of what the exterior looks like. I got nothing. I got these four laws, this little room. I'm in this little room for 21 hours of the day. Three hours to get out, shower, get a little TV time. Other than that, I'm a, I'm my best friend. And I have to be, I have to be. Things like that in there, got like claustrophobic, you know, so you're like feeling like a, like a mouse in the cage. Until myself, no, you're not doing this. No, you can be comfortable right here, right now. These four walls are keeping you enclosed, but no, like what you just gone through, what you just learned. All these things you just learned, you put into practice right now. And I just, my outlook on life became so much more, more magical, like, what do you think about in there? It was like, like I stayed happy within myself. And the guards were like, how can you be happy right now? They would ask you that, yeah, yeah, how can you be happy right now? I asked them how they can be happy by putting somebody that tried to get justice for a four year old, been arrested in solitary confinement for nine months, 21 hours a day. They're doing their job, brother. It's a light, it's a life law, right? It's a earth law. Okay, laws of the United States, laws of California, whatever, they're doing their job. That's it. I don't. I can't judge you or I can't okay you know what you're supposed to be doing cool I thought of it as look you're breathing and you're conscious Okay, that's all you need that's it I don't care if I'm getting tortured Okay into my life. I want to appreciate that I get to feel That's where I had to put myself to be happy I'm being fucking tortured at the end of my life. I'm gonna be happy that I get to feel Because after that, I won't feel anymore. I won't feel that anymore. I'm gonna be in a higher state I could I love that I get to feel that pain So that's what maybe be happy in that Be happy with myself be happy with yourself. That's it You don't need anything else to validate it. You don't need anyone else But you you create it all you create your happiness So I did that I did that I was happy man. I was happy just I'm still experiencing life. I don't know what's gonna lead. I don't know, but I'm happy that I get to experience it um And I just started like it still would bring like little winds like about the day like Whether it's a meal like oh, I'll do like this meal like yeah You know it's fucking gel food sucks, but it's like this is a blessing. Sometimes it give me like an extra meal Oh, yes, you know like I make a bigger thing than what it was And one one through like I started to know the downloads like I started uh As I wake up when my eyes are so closed I started getting these like geometric shapes patterns Like as if I was on something, but I'm not I'm just by myself meditation It's like wow, like you're still with me You've never left me ever It's just me not being able to see you, but I see you and I feel you always And then I was looking outside the window and I love looking at hawks red tail hawks. I love just like Even now like search for them as we're driving. I'm like oh wow like I love the way they fly their shape and everything and Then through the window I saw hawks like far away Like I'll start to see them close up and I like I would love that Then a minute later to the window big old fucking hawks pass up like this like fucking all open dude like wow Like come on like That right To start a big and little positivity zone. I made them bigger than what they were It's a state of mind You know we're so like We're so like what's the next thing? The biggest thing what like living in those highs and lows like Being in that room for that long a time When I got to get out and have freedom of like Leaving my room whenever I wanted to go to the fridge like That's a blessing. That's a blessing that we shouldn't Look over So yeah, I just saw the little things that that we take for granted man and saw how How beautiful freedom is to be in your car and just go wherever you want Go wherever you want go see whatever you want explore whatever you want Just appreciate it off-road it is make it bigger than what it is So the nine months there Got an overall uh with ankle monitor for about a year and a half two years Um Now split up from Michelle front of mine Has a place in Gilroy Pretty big property like 300 acres so Got an RV Stayed there And I put it in my parole that I'm working on On the on the property so my job one of my jobs and working on the property Get down trees whatever whatever maybe so I had a free range of 300 acres in nature So every day for about a year and a half Other than like picking on my kids from school and like having look I was able to have a little bit of time at home before I had to leave and go back to my to where where I was living I go and make sure every day So continue the solid student continue to be okay with myself being in nature alone um Being everything taken away right physical things taken away but Like this is only about matters this this only got matters Everything can be taken away. It's okay It's okay as long as how you feel about it You know you can you can make it the best thing you can still be in heaven on earth So it was a lot of internal work Yeah How was it seeing your son after you got out of there for nine months That was crazy. That was crazy to like At any young age like you don't you don't see him for a couple days and you see how they changed Yeah, so First time I just saw how he changed and just yeah, just what I missed you know like what I missed but Back home with him Being in our life. I'm not like yeah, that was yeah It's the best best thing like yeah, these I can't get back but I like and focus on them they they're here now you know and Try to help them with their they're longer than missing me as well You know those like I understand like the time that he needed me the most was right after that. That wasn't there for him for that I wasn't so Yeah And then you went to state prison. Yeah Um instead of um Instead of trying to fight the trial You know um the judge we had is was pretty good like I I felt like he was you solid. You know like I already done some time for what I did for the circumstances Um instead of going to trial, I just gave it up to the judge to make a decision instead of doing the whole shit, you know like I've met up to my mistakes I understood what I did was wrong like I got to hurt a lot of people, you know all that like okay Um, so He gave me a total of five years which everything else I've done Added up for me to do one more year in state prison So much state prison Yeah, um I went to a good place place where California normally with with prisons. It's it's controlled by gangs but there's some prisons that are that are not the prisons where People that are trying to get out Really get out. So do the internal work do their schooling and they go to There's a couple prisons in the in the US on the state that they do that Why aren't you in solid that and that was one of them But I was told okay, you know what you're going into right and I said what well People they shot at are the same type of people that are gonna be there and you can't do anything If you do you get more charges on your on your record Holy shit, right? So Going into a place like that you're mingled with everybody Pasking members pass killers um Sex funders Child rapeists all that right, but we're all in the road now To better ourselves to understand what we are the way that we are There's all there's bunch of classes built for everything and Okay, I said okay. Well, I'm just looking to get out. That's it. I don't give a fuck Like I do what I did and I get to our stand, but I had to put in my mind that look where I when I go to this this place I can't judge them because they already gone through their process. I can't My job is to get home now so When I got there to solo that um There's two ways of doing this one give my head down Just do my thing. Don't talk to anybody, get out or I can try to help. I can try to share with myself. I can look past what people have done in the past and know that they're on the road to get back to where they need to get back to. I hope they learn that lesson, but they haven't, hopefully, they get reported again, you know. So I went in, started making friends with people interacting, you know, shared on myself and then I started doing the breathing there. I started ascension breath there. Yeah, I learned ascension breath from putting these different breathing practices together. Because that's when I plant medicine ceremonies, people that I talk to about doing these certain medicines, they didn't want to do them. So I had to learn, okay, and everybody wants to go down this road of learning in this way and that's okay. But what's like, what's a good way in the middle, something that that isn't plant medicine based. So starting putting these different practices of breathing together to get people in the same state as if they were doing plant medicine on their own breath. So I'll put that together, starting a program there at the prison and very successful, and now I'm in talks with San Quentin prison to do the same breathing there. And I just for the inmates, but also for the for the staff as well. So the staff is open to doing to doing this. So I just look to share you know, whatever you get, whatever anybody gets from it to help some good, like, I'm here to help, I'm here to share with myself. Wow, man. You're going back to the same prison, aren't you? Yeah. It's already going on. They've continued since my absence. It's still going on. So this is ascension breathing. Yeah. An ascension breath. Yeah, ascension breath. So every, so they do it three times a week and every month, they do like a day of healing that we started. We started a day of healing there. Like where it's a whole day, yoga, breathing, booty, sound healing as well. Come in. So we do a whole day of it. We do reiki, like they do a whole day of it. Help somebody out, you know, help release their traumas, get better, better understanding, help them get in tune to have themselves a lot more. The breathing gives you what you need every time. Now what you want, it gives you what you need. So you may have to live certain things that are so pleasant, but with reliving them and that in that state of mind, you can put it to rest. Put it to rest to understand it wasn't your fault. It's like it's okay. There's a learned thing that you learned from somebody else that put her onto you. And now the choice is, okay, don't want to carry that with me and keep continuing or do I not? So being able to do this with some police department, to go into the UFCPI, did a good session there with some of the fighters. Just a little breathing speak for itself. People see that it's beneficial in some way than it'll keep growing. But I'm just helping out anywhere that I can. So breathing, working with the medicine also. I don't know which way. I know what I get out of it. I don't know if it's being a facilitator doing shaman work. I don't know, but I know what it does for me and I know that all this is teach me. I got to do the work here. So it's not that it's not for me to go back to it. Always constantly do medicine. That's not it. It's live, live a little bit. Live, incorporate it into your everyday life. Incorporate the love. Incorporate that essence. Incorporate being true to yourself. Incorporate those boundaries that you learned more. Get those boundaries up. See darkness, you know. You can do something about it in that moment. Do it. You can speak out. Speak out. So sharing with the collective in the best way that I know how I've shown of myself and trying to show more of who I am within. You know authentic. So wow. How's your son doing today? Amazing. Amazing. He has amazing people around him. I see him as the hero in the story. I'm speaking up so, you know, the time that it happened and now it was happening to the time that he spoke up and him putting a stop to that situation and making a big impact on the world in that way and the things that I did as well. But like I see great things in him and it's like he's done something already so great. How many kids do you think you saved as a four-year-old? It all depends on how long it would have kept, how long the a lot of kids. Yeah. From how long they've been established as a daycare, to how long they would have been best off to it there. Not, I mean, they don't have a daycare anymore but again there's people that are into that thing so it still happens. Right. It's still in the community. It still is. But I'm happy that he, yeah, that he had the strength to say something and that we took the right precautions. You know, calling the authorities and all that. So I've heard so many stories afterwards that people open it up to me about that happened to them as a kid, telling their parents and their parents just taking them out of the situation but I do anything about it. I don't like calling the authorities or anything else like that so damn living through this life of resentment or no other parents that didn't put a stop to it. You know, or even to somewhere like they told their parents and they didn't even do anything about it. It's crazy to me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I didn't know all this before but now I have more information that I've from life experience through it to realize like how important it is to protect your children. I'm not saying just by doing something now that I'm saying by doing what's right and like the eyes of law, they're doing that like this so much, you know, just doing that, reporting it, speaking about it, like that's the only way it's going to it's going to slip like stop and people are going to get held accountable for their actions is that not by hiding it away, not by being embarrassed, you know, that keeps everybody safe, keeps everybody doing it, like keeps everybody safe, that shouldn't be safe, that should be held accountable. So we have to talk about these things has to be open. We have to learn and teach from each other and do the right things because that'd be the worst man. I thought of that too, like damn if I if my son later on in life would tell me like you didn't do anything, like that would have killed me, you know, like he just told me that and that would have fucking, you know, like do I'm your dad, dude, like I live in order to do anything, I love my kids more than anything so to have them say that to me, that would have fucking like how much trust is gone from a parent to a child, You know, like, I love you, I sell these things, I love you and I'm- here for you, but I won't do this for you. You know, I won't do anything for you when you really need me. So, like, how deep as a love for reals. So, that's just the way I work. I had to dissect all of it and put it in its place. The good, the bad. Like, I can't even say I wish she's never gone there because if he didn't, then my son didn't go to where he went. This would continuously go on, right? They had to be somebody to stop it. So, I can't even, I can't, I can never say to myself, I wish he never gone. I can say that, right? So, I had to like, except how can I accept it? Well, he went. Yes, he got hurt. Really hurt, mostly hurt forever, but it stopped to it. Yes, he did. And he has a foundation around him that's going to help him. You know, even my daughter went through it with like, seeing it all, you know? So, she went through all of that. Like, so, I really had to dissect all of it in order to not keep this anger, resentment towards these people. Because I don't need that for me. If I'm holding on to all these things that I shouldn't be holding on to, well, how am I going to get more understanding from holding on to all these things? Maybe let those things go that don't suit me anymore. They do nothing for me. They do nothing but keep me in a place of darkness, of doubt, of hurt. Let that go. Because I don't want that. But I understand it. Let it go. And I learned from it. I move on. They're going to get what they need to get. It's like, we are, whether they get it in this life law, they're going to get it from a higher place. God will teach him. Like, so it's all good. It's okay. We're just teaching each other. So, I really have to do that to like, let go of things. Really going to it, dive into it, dive into that hurt, let her float through me. So, I'm not holding on. You're a great dad. Thank you, my pleasure, man. Thank you. Seriously, I'm so honored, thank you, my friend. Thank you. No matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything, please like, comment and subscribe. And most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, head to Apple podcast and Spotify and leave us a review.