#341 Jason Flom with John Giuca Pt.2

Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armason here. The Dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form. We're launching Podlandia A.O. Rewatch, our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of "Portlandia" together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Chrysel, the mayor himself, Kyle McGlocklin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvise not just words, but a song about it. I thought you were all going to write a song. I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia, A.O. Rewatch, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Tutorial. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, the longest shot, or Spike Lee's Black Plansman. And on my new podcast, "Delivering Happiness with Nick Tutorial," I deliver pizza to a new guest. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing, my belt? To Bill Burr. I don't think I've ever met somebody. So exactly out of their mind is I am. And now, we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Tutorial. This goes happiness, delivering happiness, and many, many more. Open your free iHeart Radio app, search delivering happiness with Nick Tutorial, and listen now. What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist, Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your girl, Sam J. And we're the host of "Everyone Watches Women's Sports," a new podcast from "Together in iHeart Women's Sports." We're breaking down the biggest headlines. Naomi Osaka showing out. Shout-out to you now. The viral moments. Out of the obsessed with Koshan Rock's boxing journey, she looks good, her combos are swift. And the stories everyone's talking about across women's sport. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports. On the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. (soft piano music) In part one of our coverage of John Jooker, you heard about how a corrupt investigation turned a group of friends against one of their own, producing initially three, and eventually a fourth false and conflicting testimony that led to John's arrest and conviction. Now, here about his continuing fight for freedom and where the case stands today. They're taking things from me that I'll never get back. You know, they took all my 20s and now all my 30s too. And now they're gonna start working on the 40s. Unless nothing happens. When I came up state, I automatically started trying to go to the low library of life. But it's hard to even get up out of bed in the morning. Knowing what's being done to you. But you wanna just try to keep going on, which I did. And I try to go into the low library every day at one point, trying to get to know the law. And that's when I saw that my prosecutor, Nicolasi, used the prosecutorial misconduct handbook as like a playbook, even though all those things are considered a gregion misconduct. And my lawyer, whose name was Lloyd Epsin at the time, said that that's your major issue right here because there's so much here. This is just the case based off of the words. And so they had to be for their case with misconduct and pulling every dirty move that they could. She suppressed evidence more than once that we can prove between coercing witnesses, mistating the full record, or even mistating the law. She told the jury that, and this was in my first appeal, that what Lawson said alone is enough to convict me of felony murder. And that's not really true either. But it's all that is moot now because of the recantations. But the major one was, besides her polygraph trick, was a white washed drug program violation documents that they gave us. So they literally white washed records that they gave us for John O'Beato. They put them up on the stand and got him to say that he wasn't getting anything and didn't want anything in return for his testimony. No leniency and no benefits at all. Meanwhile, he just fucked up seven or eight drug programs and got like all these violations. And he just got violated like a couple of days before he was on the stand up there. But they gave us drug program violation reports that didn't have any of that stuff on there. And then later, when we got the case file, we got the real copy of the exact same document. It's the same document. It's not a different document. It's the exact same. If you hold them up to each other, they are the same document. But they have more sentences in them. So somebody just highlighted that part, personally, and printed it out and gave it to us. Then the Supreme Court judges have said for years that it's huge, that's major, that the jury knows the credibility of someone and what their motives for testifying against someone. They just tracked them up there and made it look like he was just just trying to be a good citizen. And then he didn't want anything in exchange for his testimony. He was a total why. He even showed up to one of his court appearances and made sure he didn't go to jail. That was my first appeal, the prosecutorial misconduct stuff. But then really, those early years were more about my juror misconduct issue. I understand that one of your friends was with your mom. And notice somebody in the jury that he recognized. Do I have that right? Yeah. I'm pretty sure it was the day the verdict. Someone came in to support me. And he saw one of the jurors and he was like, oh, shit, I know this guy from the neighborhood. And he hangs out at the Wendell's house. And that's the same place John always hangs out. How the fuck does this guy not know John or no of John or something? How is this weird? So he told my mother. And then your mom puts on her literal superhero cape and goes, and you've got to hear, I'm just being the audience. Now, you're going to have to hear this to believe it. She's unbelievable. I can't say enough about Zorin. My mother tried to go to a private investigator first. She got ripped off, tried multiple private investigators. And she just had to take matters into her own hands as she did. And then I think they found out through a barber or something like that, exactly where he was from and who he was. She watched him for a period of time and eventually started communicating with him and they started hanging out. Now, of course, she was not known to him to be John Juke's mother. But she recorded her interactions with him. They began an ostensible friendship. And after a period of time, she started talking about the case. And this guy, Aloh, started saying things that would make your jaw drop or make you spit out your morning coffee. If you're talking about due process and having a fair and impartial jury. He said that he ridden newspapers and watched TV all about the case, even though the judge warned them, I think it was like 13 or 15 times not two. And he called that bullshit. He said that he couldn't get off for work because it's both really the one who took off with jury duty. But once he told them about which case it was, his boss gave him off and said, I want to see that fucking kid fry. Told them he'll give him off with pay, something like that. All kinds of things were coming out of this guy's mouth, including admitting that he never should have been on the jury because he knew some of the people. I've heard of this crowd of kids. He said that it's cousin who also used to hang out at a house that I hung out at before and knew those guys. And she thought I was guilty. So she told him that I was guilty. Said, it's cousin wouldn't lie to me about something like that. Another thing was that he said, which is guys that I used to hang out with, used to bully his brother. I didn't even recognize the name that he was talking about, but guys that I knew or that who knew me used to bully his brother. So it was like revenge. He had an accident right. And he also basically said that he didn't like Jews. Obviously the name Juka sounds like Jew, but it's very Italian, not Jewish. He's not even a competent anti-Semite. He's wrong on every conceivable way. Morally bankrupt, mentally deficient, just can't even process this. And there is that famous cringe-inducing interview on 2020 where when this became public, Jason Allo actually made the very ill-advised decision to defend himself on TV. And he was interviewed by Martin Bashir, if you remember him. And he was denying a lot of this where Bashir is reading the transcript and playing the recording for anyone and everyone to hear. And there's just no question that the case should have been tossed because of the juror misconduct. He said that, pushed the other jurors into a guilty verdict, even admitted that he was person-made of the jurors into a guilty verdict. When they filed a motion to reverse the conviction on that issue, the recordings were not authenticated. There are rules of evidence in a courtroom. You can't just take someone's word for it. And for whatever reason, those recordings were not authenticated in the proper way. And so the motion was denied on procedural grounds, but the judge who denied the motion went farther and said, "Even if it was proper, I would deny it on the merits because this is an assault on the judicial system for somebody to be going after a juror." So the criticism was actually leveled entirely at Doreen for exposing this rather than the juror who clearly had no business being on the case. "If you didn't do anything wrong, you didn't commit any crimes. It was just as you'd dug for the truth that you got it." And they didn't like what they found out or what they heard. So I got involved in this in 2012. It was contacted by Doreen, John's mother or who some know as mother justice because of what she did trying to unravel. to travel to conviction. When she showed up in my office with just stacks of papers, the first piece of paper that was on top of this whole pile was a transcript in the people of the state of New York versus John Avedo, not John Juca. And it was the court appearance in which Avedo had gone to court after he started meeting with John's prosecutor. Now, on the cover of any transcript, it's gonna list the caption of the case, the name of who appears for the DA's office, who appears for the defense, that sort of thing. And the appearance for the DA on the cover of this transcript in June 13th of 2005 was Anna Siga Nikolazzi, who was John's prosecutor. And there was no reason why a homicide prosecutor on the biggest murder case in New York City would be appearing on a mundane, meaningless return on warrant for some moep who had a burglary sentence because he violated a drug program other than the fact he had to be cooperating in the murder case. And so I knew within the first day I met Doreen that this case was sideways. - And all of this is happening in the ramp up to the historic run of Kent Thompson. It seemed like he was really ready to change things for good in Brooklyn. - There was some story in the press during the election in 2012, '13, because we were in the process of trying to get Juka's conviction overturned. And a lot of this news about Angel Di Pietro came out. And again, the idea that she could be hired by Hines as a prosecutor and be Nikolazzi's colleague years later, just to so absurd on his face that he asked me about what is all this. In my view, he wanted to campaign on Juka ironically enough. And maybe it was my mistake at the time, but I told him, I don't wanna talk to you about anything Juka related because you're probably gonna be the next DA and I'm telling you right now, I'm gonna be coming to you to write this wrong. And I look back and one of my sins in this case is probably not unloading to him, because ironically what he would have probably done is campaigned on it. - So Kent Thompson challenges Hines against long eyes in the primary. He wins. And what does Joe Hines do? He's gotta go to the GOP Kings County Executive Committee and get the Wilson Packula waiver to allow him to run as a Republican. - He pulled the sneaky political move and he used that card when he needed it. So it was something that he was always getting during all of his elections just in case he needed it. But in 2013, he actually needed it and used it and ran as a Republican to take a second bite at the apple and try to win the race even though he lost the primary. - So now Mark, at this point, you're thinking, this is your time. You got Kent Thompson in. It's time to resolve this once and for all. - Yeah, the idea here was to convince the incoming administration of the Brooklyn Thierry's office that the Hines crowd got this wrong and here's a chance to do right. When we did bring the case to the conviction review unit, we presented them with all kinds of evidence, including literally hundreds, if not thousands, of pages, of medical records of John Jucacinier, who had the strokes that we talked about, which meant that the Avedo story couldn't happen. We presented them with the sworn affidavits of the two women who were at that jailhouse visit who denied that conversation ever took place. We presented them with overwhelming proof of how Angel and Albert clearly testified falsely and how it contradicted what they told the police and contradicted all the other available evidence. We presented them with sworn affidavits of the residents of Argyle Road who explained how they heard the car door, the voice of the young woman, the car fleeing the location. - And while this is in the CRU, we're talking 2013, 2014. Amazingly, this is when the recantations start rolling in. So in 2014, Lauren Colceado recanted, and I have some excerpts here that I wanna share. She said, and this is a long quote, so hang in there with me because you have to hear every word of this. Okay, here's her quote. I have regretted this testimony since I was first pressured to claim this by law enforcement officials. I repeatedly told them that they did not have any information regarding John's alleged involvement in this crime. Law enforcement pressured and frightened me to the point that I ultimately relented and told them what they wanted to hear. Specifically, I was pressured to admit that John had told me that he gave Tony Russel a gun before Tony shot and killed Mark Fisher. She goes on to say, "law enforcement officials suggested that I was involved in the aftermath of the crime by telling me that Albrecht Cleary had told them that I removed a gunbag or evidence from John's house. Although this was untrue, I recognized the seriousness of this claim." Law enforcement officers threatened me with jail and told me that I could be charged with obstruction and/or perjury. ADA Nikolasi told me that if I did not cooperate with her, the police would show up in my place of employment with a subpoena. ADA Nikolasi referenced a very personal issue between John and me, which was discussed only in our private letters. She told me, "You do not want this to come out of trial." I interpreted this as a not-so-subtle threat that I would be publicly humiliated by the DA if I did not cooperate. ADA Nikolasi and detectives told me that they were aware that my father was in prison and that by not cooperating with them, I was, quote, "going to make this hard on him and my family." More than any other factor, this threat influenced me to testify in the manner that they desired. Now, this thing goes on for eight full pages and it completely shreds the state's case. She also, in her affidavit, explained how Albert Cleary lied and that his testimony was false because I was there and he didn't say that either. In other words, what I said was not true, but what he said was not true either. And she also gave a little insight into what Gettomophia was. Now, she didn't testify to what it was 'cause she wasn't asked, but in her sworn recantation, she said I was around these people during this time period and Gettomophia is a name of a bunch of local kids and knuckleheads, not some sophisticated street gang. We also gave them a sworn affidavit from, if you recall, when we talked about Albert Cleary, the guy that he said was the boss of the gang who had spoken to John about, "Let's catch a body." And that's why maybe Mark Fisher was shot and he very calmly explained under oath that I was going to college in North Carolina and I was not the leader of a gang and John and I did not discuss how to get a body or anything like that. - And then John Avedo recants. - He did and Avedo was very seriously mentally ill and he was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia. We got all of his Rikers Island jail records and sure enough, he was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia who had been taking a number of drugs, psychotropic drugs, including Cerequil and part of his symptoms and what Cerequil treats are people who suffer auditory hallucinations which Avedo was. So it turns out that the guy who says I overheard a man who can't speak, ask questions about a murder. You can't make this up. Had a history of actually hearing voices and seeing snakes was another one of his visual hallucinations. (gentle music) (gentle music) - What's up fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. - Hey, what's up y'all? It's your girl Sam J. - And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together and I Heart Women's Sports. - Because let's be real. Women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days. - So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo roeer to go from California to Hawaii. - My first thought is like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we eating? - The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments to take over your entire timeline. - And the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week, every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports. - Naomi Osaka showing out, she beat. - Savalinka. - Shout out to you Naomi. - You get the palm Naomi, you get the palm for that. - Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. - On the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. - Hey, Portlandia fans. - Carrie Brown, seen in Fred Armason here. - You know us or rather, you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance, Spike and yes, the chicken. - We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia, AO Rewatch, our brand new podcast. - Each week we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning. Raking down the sketches, exploring the back stories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process. - How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it. - And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Kreisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician, Amy Mann, and many more. - Kyle is going for it here. - You fully improvised not just words, but a song about it. - I thought he was going to write, I thought you were all going to write a song. - I remember you thinking that. - Listen to Podlandia, AO Rewatch, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - This is Chelsea Hamler from Dear Chelsea. Every week the news gets worse. The world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible you're the problem. If you come over here to play games, I'ma check you. Okay? If you do something, In the news that don't sound good, I'ma play you. Join Yamanika Saunders as she breaks down the week's most problematic stories on her new podcast, "You're the Problem" with Yamanika. Do you know I just found out who Sydney Swini was? New episodes weekly, every Wednesday, is part of my new network, the dear Chelsea network. If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of men. Do better or do less, so I don't have to do so much. So join Yamanika each episode as she answers one question. Who's the problem? I'm Yamanika and I'm out. Listen to "You're the Problem" with Yamanika on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. We had many, many meetings with their conviction review unit, including one in the summer I want to say in 2014, which was chaired by Eric Gonzalez, who at the time was not the DA, obviously. Eric was overseeing the process, so he knew exactly what was going on here. And they declined to overturn the conviction either on innocence or on any constitutional violations. They had Mark Hale call me to tell me, I believe the words were that the district attorney is not going to disturb the conviction. I have to be honest with you, I was a little surprised for a couple of reasons, one, because the decision is wrong. But I know Ken and I would have expected that call to come from him, given what this was. And I said that to Mark and I asked, I'd like to hear that from Ken. So I was hoping to get in touch with Ken and instead I got a call from Eric. Who at the time was, you know, the number two guy. Eric's a nice guy, we had a conversation and I told him I was disappointed that Ken couldn't find the time to tell me himself and explain his reasoning. And this was in late 14 and by first couple of months and 15 we filed a motion. It's just really disappointing, it's not as strong enough for it, it's devastating. And even with Ken Thompson in there, just for some reason had some sort of a block against doing this. The worst part about it for me was that all these other guys, they were like, "When Ken Thompson took office, there were 25 generations and that gave me so much hope." And at this point I've almost ceased to hope because of what they did to me. Although the difference between me and all those other guys is that the ADA that put them in jail doesn't work there anymore. But when it came to me, when Ken Thompson got elected, he didn't fire Nikolasi, so she did still work there. And they covered for her instead of doing justice like they should of. I mean there was all the pile of mountain of evidence that pointed away from me and they just didn't care. They denied me and used what we gave them to try to counter me. They knew that there was no way in hell that if they denied his review that there wasn't going to be a post-conviction motion. They believed that they exploited our petition to gather evidence to cross-examine witnesses and use it as discovery. And when John Avedo and Lauren Calciano and others at risk to themselves, they're contributing sworn testimony with new sworn testimony when they went in to see the conviction review unit. What the DA did was record them, square them in, make transcripts and put them under oath. When the Brooklyn DA witnesses were interviewed, Anna Seagannickalazzi, others, they weren't sworn. There's no record of their interviews. And the report has never been made public. It's never been shared like so many others that they do share. But it says if they viewed the JuCA conviction review as an exercise in preparing for a post-conviction motion and locking down these witnesses to cross-examine them if they testify for the defense. So now after the CRU decided for reasons I'll never understand to pass, you got set up to file a 440 motion. That culminated in a reversal in February of 2018. Yeah, I got a unanimous decision this case should be reversed and he should get a new trial. But I got the reversal of the John Avedo issue and the fact that Nicolasi did give him benefits. The DA showed up to what the witnesses court hearing and kept him from going to jail. And that is leniency in the change versus summary. My jury should have known about that. And then I go back down to Rikaz Island and I sit there for a year and a half. When the DA was contemplating a retrial, they actually so desperate to get JuCA, okay, that they sent these detectives up there to interview Russo for one reason. They want to secure his cooperation to testify against John. Now Antonio Russo is the murderer in this case. Everybody knows it. They know it. Antonio Russo carried a gun, threatened people yet when it came time to potentially retry the case. They went up there for the purpose of trying to flip Russo to testify against JuCA. And instead what he tells them is I did it alone with my own gun. And that was the end of their discussions with Antonio Russo. What's up fam? Hey, what's up y'all? And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports. A new podcast from together and I heart women's sports. Because let's be real women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days. So Kelsey and Ler, she became the first female solo Roeer to go from California to Hawaii. My first thought is like, what's up with the snacks? The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments to take over your entire timeline. And the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports. She beat Savalinka. Shout out to you Naomi. You get the palm Naomi. You get the palm for that. Because we're not just interested in what happened. On the iHeart radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Carrie Brown seen in Fred Armason here. You know us or rather you know them Tony and Candice, Nina and Lance, Spike and yes, the chicken. We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about podlandia, AO Rewatch, our brand new podcast. Each week we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning. Breaking down the sketches, exploring the back stories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process. How did any of this get made? Why do you think that was a good idea? Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Kreisel, the mayor himself Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann and many more. You fully improvise not just words but a song about it. I thought he was going to write. Listen to podlandia, AO Rewatch on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Chelsea Hamler from Dear Chelsea. The world gets crazier and Yamannika is here to tell whoever's responsible you're the problem. Okay, if you do something in the news that don't sound good, I'ma play you. Join Yamannika Saunders as she breaks down the week's most problematic stories on her new podcast. You're the problem with Yamannika. New episodes weekly every Wednesday is part of my new network, The Dear Chelsea Network. Do better or do less so I don't have to do so much. So join Yamannika each episode as she answers one question. Who's the problem? I'm Yamannika and I'm out. Listen to you're the problem with Yamannika on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So now you're back at Rikers for a couple months. And during the discovery process, you discover this recording that was made with a guy named Ingram. ADA Mikalazi made a recording in 2005. Before the trial, that was recording. And this was a guy who was probably trying to help himself, come home, you know, he told them he had information. And he said things that she didn't want to hear because it did pretty much clear me. So they would tell him before I think it was 13 years. This tape was not disclosed prior to trial. It was disclosed to me in 2018. And Joseph Ingram was in the same cell block as John and traveled to Bellevue for medical treatment one day with Antonio Russo. And him and Russo were on the bus chit chatting. He said Russo admitted he did this alone. That I wasn't there. Nothing to do with it. None of that. And Russo admitted to Ingram that I tried to get John to take the gun after the murder. I went to his house and he wouldn't do it. He told me leave, go, no. And this was the exact opposite of what the trial evidence was again. Mary's is John got rid of a gun. Antonio Russo told Joseph Ingram, John would not take the gun. But the new trial was never actualized. So for now, they didn't have to contend with this evidence. In June 2019, the New York Court of Appeals reinstated the conviction that you had reversed in 2018, and John went back to state prison. The New York State Court of Appeals authored a decision that a sole absurd it defies logic. It was obvious by the decision that they didn't know the facts of the case. Although they agreed with us that Nicolazzi suppressed evidence, they argued it was not material to the outcome of trial, which is reasoning, which is mind-boggling, given that Nicolazzi's whole summation, as I told you earlier, was about how critical a witness of veto was and how credible he was and how altruistic he was and how he established a real theory of what happened. And one would think that if the defense had known the full story about his credibility and demolished him as it should have been, that would somehow have impacted the significance of his testimony. But in the five one opinion against us, they argued it wasn't material because a veto had been impeached about other things. And it was Judge Rivera in a very lengthy descent to explain why that reasoning was flawed and why his credibility on this particular issue was so important and why the behavior of the trial prosecutor was intended to mislead the judge, the jury, and defense. You don't usually see a judge of the Court of Appeals call out a prosecutor and essentially say you engage in deliberate misconduct in violation of your ethical responsibilities. And again in Brooklyn, what's Fidinner? They do care, it seems though, about bending over backwards and doing mental gymnastics to maintain this inexplicable wrongful conviction, which it seems they did when you were able to get a hearing on this Brady material, this recording that was made with a guy named Ingram in front of Justice Danny Chund. Now I have sworn statements and there's been sworn testimony from Rousseau's lawyer and from Sam Gregory that they didn't get this evidence and they would have remembered it if they did. And then we had testimony from Nicolazzi who said, I can't say whether I did or didn't, but if I did it was not purpose, but I probably did. And this was litigated a couple of years ago in front of Justice Chund who found that the DA probably disclosed it, notwithstanding the fact that they explained why this would have been significant evidence and steps they would have taken had they known about it back then, but nevertheless Justice Chund found that we did not satisfy our burden that it wasn't disclosed. And I just respectfully, because I like him personally, but the ruling on that case is just flat out 100% wrong. So that's where this is at. What can I, what can any of us do to help? Right into the governor is probably best right now because I really don't see myself in Justice and Brooklyn in these courts with these judges and with this DA. So I need to get a special prosecutor appointed and the only one who can do that for me is the governor. That's my next motion. I'm pretty sure. All right. I'm going to link your website and Instagram account to keep our audience abreast of all future developments and action steps as well as if they wanted to learn more about your case. Yeah. We've got briefs, transcripts, exhibits. One thing we definitely believe in is shining a bright light on this. And with that, we go to closing arguments. This, of course, is the part of the show where I'm going to put my microphone down, leave my headphones on, kick back in my chair, close my eyes and just take a couple of deep breaths because I need it after this. And listen to anything else you guys want to share. So Mark, what is you take it from here and then hand the mic off to John and John, you have the last word. And my last word is I just wish you all the best and I hope we see you back in the free world, home with your family where you belong really, really soon. We are always investigating, gathering and doing things. As I said, John, his mother, his family, his supporters, sometimes they fade out of the public eye a little bit, but we're always getting ready to fight and we are still looking into certain things, which as I said, I think we'll at some point lead us back. They want us to be gone, but we're not going anywhere. I know that, you know, in the eyes of the Brooklyn D.A. at this point, they just wish we would go away and fade away and he would do his time and Doreen would stop fighting and why did they get better road to help them? How can he fall for this nonsense? You know, I know that's kind of how they perceive my involvement of this and they couldn't be more wrong. I believe in this 100%, I have no doubt that John was wrongfully convicted. I have confidence in his actual innocence. I believe to my core that he didn't commit this crime and that's after reviewing all the evidence and I certainly believe and know based on my review of the evidence of the law that his rights were violated several different ways and that this was not a trial. What happened in 2005, it was a railroading. It was just Brooklyn style justice in the Charles Highs administration and those skeletons are still there. It's not so far past where people are going to be willing to forget about it and certainly we aren't and we're not going anywhere. It's just been too much suffering for too long, you know, it's wrong. Probably on top of wrong, probably on top of injustice, probably on top of injustice. It's like an ongoing tragedy. This is not only am I being affected by my family being crushed from this, it took my youth from me and all the experiences I would have had. And I feel like a financial burden on my family too, I can anchor around that neck and my mother is getting older now. I'm afraid she, I pray every day that she, I could come home while she's still alive and she makes it. They took all that time away from me that I was supposed to have with her and being in prison wrongfully is much different than being here for something you actually did. That's what me and a lot of these other guys have already been on your show haven't common I think is that we understand what it feels like. That's why I feel it's not a relationship with them, some of them who I even never met because when you're here for something you actually did, I see it. These other guys, they get into a routine and they just stay, they accept it. But when you're here wrongfully, it's impossible for you to accept. You just really can't accept it. So every day it becomes torture. Thank you for listening to "Romphal Conviction." Special thanks to our amazing production team, Connor Hall, Annie Chelsea, Jeff Clyburn and Kevin Wartis with Research by Laila Robinson. The music in this production was supplied by three time Oscar nominated composer Jay Ralf. Make sure to follow us on Instagram @Romphalconviction on Facebook @Romphalconviction podcast and on Twitter @Romconviction as well as @LavaForGood on all three platforms. You can also follow on TikTok and Instagram @it'sjasonflom. That's it's Jason Flom. "Romphalconviction" is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in Association of Signal Company Number One. Carrie Brown seen in Fred Armas in here. We're launching "Podlandia AO rewatch," our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of "Podlandia" together. Breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made. guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Chrysler, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician, Amy Mann and many more. I thought you were going to write a song. Listen to "Podlandia AO rewatch" on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up fam? And we're the host of "Everyone Watches Women's Sports," a new podcast from together in iHeart Women's Sports. We're breaking down the biggest headlines. The viral moments. I've been obsessed with Koshan Rock's boxing journey. She looks good. Her combos are swift. The stories everyone's talking about across women's sports. On the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Tutoro. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, the longest y'all, or Spike Lee's Black Plansman. And on my new podcast, "Delivering Happiness with Nick Tutoro," I deliver pizza to a new guest. To Bill Burr. I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind this high on. And now, we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Tutoro. Let's go with happiness. Delivering happiness. And many, many more. Open your free iHeart radio app. Search Delivering Happiness with Nick Tutoro. And listen now.