337 - Stephanie Cartin on How Hope and Community Created a Miracle

Hi, entrepreneurs. It's stuff here. This week is National Infertility Awareness Week, and if you're in the midst of navigating a fertility journey or balancing everything while running a business, I want you to know that you are not alone. I have been there and I know how overwhelming, exhausting, and emotionally draining it can be. So today, I'm re-aering my full fertility and pregnancy journey in hopes that it really helps you. So whether this helps you feel less alone or helps you by me sharing my insights that really might help support you in your own journey, I want to be here for you. And I do want to mention that I go into detail in this episode about pregnancy loss and complications. As you're listening to my story today, you're going to hear all that I went through and experienced. I have learned so much through my experience and I truly believe that I somehow went through all that I did because they knew that I would just want to share my experience to help other people. Now, I had of listening to the episode, I want to share some of my biggest learning lessons from navigating infertility and a high-risk pregnancy while building and running a business. These are the lessons that really carried me through the most challenging moment and I hope that they can provide you with some guidance, reassurance, and strength for you too. First, you have to be your own advocate. One of the most critical lessons that I learned is that no one, I mean no one will advocate for you like you will. If something doesn't feel right, ask questions. If you're not getting the answers that you need, seek a second opinion and trust your instincts. I push for additional tests, I change doctors when I felt unheard and I insisted on rechecking all of my health conditions before proceeding with treatments. That persistence made all the difference in my journey. Infertility and pregnancy are emotionally and physically draining, so you need to be sure to give yourself as much grace as possible. Going through fertility treatments and experiencing pregnancy loss and navigating a high-risk pregnancy, take a huge toll on your mental, emotional, and physical health and it's okay to feel overwhelmed, it's normal. It's okay to take breaks and it's okay to cry and it's okay to ask for help. You are doing something incredibly hard and giving yourself grace is not just important, it is necessary to get through this journey. The next thing that I hope you take away is the importance of really surrounding yourself with supportive people. You do not have to go through this alone, so whether it's your partner, close friends, family, a Facebook group, a community of women who truly understand what you're going through lean on them. I found incredible strength in talking to other people who had really walked this path before me and I want you to know that I am here for you too. The next thing I want to share with you is that running a business while navigating infertility and a complicated pregnancy or just a pregnancy in general, it requires setting boundaries and trying to be a hundred percent present for both your business and going through your infertility journey, it can sometimes feel impossible and that's okay again and for me I learned that I had to delegate, I had to set boundaries and I really had to give myself permission to just step back when necessary. I know many of you are running a business so you need to prioritize what truly matters, lean on your team and other people and don't be afraid to slow down when you need to. The next thing I want to share is that your health comes first always. You cannot run a business without taking care of yourself and I've always been someone who pushes through challenges but infertility and then navigating this high-risk pregnancy, it really forced me to listen to my body in a way that I never had before. If you need rest, take it. If a treatment isn't working, explore other options. If you're managing a chronic health condition to like I was on top of everything else, make sure that you're prioritizing your overall well-being, not just your fertility journey or not just your business. Also I wanted to share that the financial and emotional toll of going through all of this, it's real and what helped me was preparing and planning as much as I could ahead of time. Now we all know going through fertility treatments are really expensive and the process is very time consuming and the emotional highs and lows are absolutely exhausting so if you're going through this be kind to yourself and just plan when you can so whether that's financially or emotionally in how you want to structure your work, no amount of planning can really make this journey easy but just being even a little bit more prepared can help you feel in just a bit more control and that something that helped me. The other thing I want to share is that loss and grief are really part of this journey and you're allowed to feel everything. Give yourself that opportunity to feel losing our daughter, Ami, what you're going to hear about is and what is one of the most harpicking experiences of my entire life and there's no way to prepare for loss and grief doesn't follow a timeline so whatever you feel it is valid let yourself grieve and know that healing happens in its own time and finally I want to share with you that hope and resilience will carry you through no matter how hard the journey gets hold on to hope. There were so many moments when I was told to give up when doctors gave me horrible statistics or when the challenges just felt impossible to overcome but I refused to stop believing in the possibility that Molly would survive and today I have Molly here to thank and who reminds me every single day that I really should have never given up and I didn't so you're not alone and I'm here for you so if you are listening and you're navigating an infertility journey, a complicated pregnancy journey or you're managing a chronic health condition while building a business just know again you're not alone I see you I understand you and I'm here for you so I want to share my full story with you this is the raw and honest and very deeply personal journey that I went through to bring my daughter into this world. On this episode you're going to meet my friend Randy Zen she interviews me as I share my story and I hope that by sharing this again I can help even one more person feel a little bit less alone. This is the Entrepreneur's to podcast presented by SocialFly. It's the best business meeting you'll ever have with must-here real-life looks at how leading women in business are getting it done and what it takes to build and grow a successful company. It's beyond the gram with no filters, no limits and plenty of surprises. Randy I am so glad that we are here together today to finally share my story and what I went through over the past two plus years actually feel like hot inside of my body even just starting to talk about it and you know we met through our mutual podcast producer Mark who thought it would be great for us to connect and when you came to my office a couple of months ago and you know started sharing more about yourself and your podcast and the stories that you've shared it just I knew in that moment that you were the one to share my story and I'm just so glad to finally do this because I just you know I always say I just want to help as many people as possible through through what I went through. That means a lot to me I'm really really really honored to sit here with you and be a part of the moment that you'll have to just tell your story because there's really nothing more powerful nothing more healing for both parties that get to not only share but listen I would say that creating vulnerable safe storytelling spaces is part of my reason why it's part of why I have the podcast I have the going beyond podcast it's where I get to bring women on that I know have powerful stories to tell and I'm always surprised by whatever comes out it's always beyond no pun intended beyond what I assumed it would be and similarly when I met you I really thought I was coming for I don't know some kind of business connection and yeah there's business and collaboration and support which has been wonderful but actually when you meet honest kindred spirit like you know there is more to it than just the business and that's I think what you hope every meeting turns into right but not every meeting does just one of those instant instant connections I also think there's that that mom connection to I think when you go through the journey whatever your journey is to to become a mom or become a parent like you just you just get it and you just are able to connect to people in a different way but I'm absolutely I also I was reflecting with you recently that you know we were we were questioning why now you know why are you ready to tell your story now and being a mom myself of a four-year-old and an eight-year-old having a little bit of an inflection point being able to look back and see how time passes and what happens over time you realize that as you creep closer to certain milestones and for you getting closer to that one year point of actually having your baby you do start to reach a point of coming back to yourself in a certain kind of way and being ready to exhale a little bit and be ready to share what you've learned and what you've grown from. And your story is so intense and so powerful that it means somehow even more for you to be ready to really go back and talk about all of the moments and how it landed you here to this moment. So again, I just feel really privileged to be able to sit with you and just roll with this moment. - So where do we begin? How do we just start this? - I guess maybe if you want to begin with the moment that you knew you were ready to start going for becoming a parent. Like you're obviously a business woman. You have a lot of things going on in your life. You have established a successful business and then you want to become a mother. So maybe reflecting a little bit on that moment and what you walked into. - So I always knew I wanted to be a mom from the time for my longest childhood memory. It's like I remember being five years old and playing with dolls and pretending that I was a mom and my mom had her private practice speech pathology practice out of our house back when I was younger. And I remember the parents would bring their kids for speech therapy and they would have younger siblings and they would be in our family room with their baby. And I would go downstairs and get the hold of little babies. And I just remember always just wanting to have a baby and to be a mom. So that was just always part of my DNA and who I was even as I continued to get older and throughout my life. It was just everything I wanted, every choice I made in my career was about how can I work hard enough to set my life up to know that I can have a family and have the means to take care of a child. That was always my mentality, my entire life. And I know some people don't realize until later in life that they might want to start a family. I just knew from the time I was so, so young that I wanted to be a mom. So when my husband and I first got married, I remember I said to him, my biggest fear in life is not being able to become a parent or having difficulty becoming a mom. And I had vocalized that to him. And he was like, no, I'm sure everything will be fine. But I've just always had these health challenges throughout my life. So I think something deep down told me that I might have a challenge too. But we started trying to get pregnant about a year, a year or so after we got married. And I actually, to rewind a little bit, I first went and did genetic testing and got blood work done because I had MS and I've had some health challenges in my life. I thought it would be a good idea to just do some initial testing. And at that point I found out I was a pre-mutation carrier of something called fragile X. If you're familiar with what that is. I have heard of it. So fragile X can cause mental disabilities for children and some other things as well. And it's only passed down from the mom. So it's not where you get genetic testing done in both the mom and the dad have to match. It's only passed down from the mom. So I got these lab results that I was a pre-mutation carrier. So I'm like, oh my gosh, what does this mean? Here we go. Here's the first navigating, navigating the journey of trying to start a family. So we ended up meeting with a genetic specialist at Mount Sinai, did some additional blood work. And she said, you know, the chances are of it forming into a full mutation in the next generation are around 1%, maybe less than 1%. So you can try to get pregnant naturally. You can always do some early genetic testing once you're pregnant. But you can also go meet with every productive endocrinologist to see what it would be like if you wanted to do IVF and genetic testing just to see if you wanted to be sure that you definitely don't pass down that gene. So at this point, this is several years ago now. I wasn't following any people who were talking about fertility on Facebook or Instagram. I didn't know anything about the whole fertility world. I only knew of one friend who had gone through IVF. So I reached out to her. She was the only person that I knew. Now I feel like every single person I know has gone through fertility treatments. She sent me to her doctor. I didn't do any research. Went to him. He shared more about IVF and doing IVF and was trying to what I call cell IVF. And something just didn't sit right with me. And I was like, you know what? I don't want to put all these hormones into my body. I don't want to do all of this. This is crazy expensive. Let's just try to get pregnant on our own and we'll just do early genetic testing. So brings me back to we start trying for about a year to get pregnant. Nothing happens. So a year later, I call up the same doctor, make an appointment. I go back. We meet with him. And he almost like laughed at us. He's like, oh, you're back. And so the sort of strange messaging and negativity starts already. Yes. And for me, I'm so desperate. Like, this man is the one who can create this family that I can't create on my own. And I have to do whatever he says. And again, I hadn't done any research. I just went back to the same doctor. And which is so interesting because the type of person I am, very type A, I research everything. I get all the information. But because this was just something I wanted more than anything in the world. And I was so vulnerable. And it was so painful for me to deal with. I just wanted to trust that this doctor got my friend pregnant actually twice. So why wouldn't he be able to get me pregnant? So sure, he didn't have the best attitude. He didn't really dream you with that much respect. But he could do it. He was getting all these people in this waiting room pregnant. So he was the person we had to go to. So we leave that appointment. And my husband is like, you want to go to that doctor? Because he knows me. And I'm all about finding the right doctor who's the right fit and feeling comfortable with a doctor. And I'm like, yes, he got my friend pregnant. He's our answer. We were just focusing on the result. Yes, the experience at that moment. Because I just wanted a healthy baby. That's all I wanted. So in that appointment, he did an ultrasound and saw what he thought was a polyp. So he then sends me for an HSG test. And again, he hands me a piece of paper. The nurse hands me a piece of paper says here, go to this doctor now for an HSG test just to see what's going on. To be sure your tubes are clear, it looks like you have a polyp. Let's just see what's going on. Gives me this piece of paper. Gives me no background information on what an HSG test is. So for those of you who are listening, it can be a very, very painful test and experience. And it's for me, I like to have information ahead of time. And I didn't really know what that test entailed. And when I say that test was more painful, now that I've been through childbirth and childbirth, it absolutely was. It was horrible. And I was bleeding for days after I felt very sick. Now I'm calling the doctor's practice saying, I think something happens, something's not right. No one, the doctor's not calling me back. I'm getting calls from nurses who I don't know there. It just was a terrible, terrible experience. So now the doctor calls me back three days later. I'm like, I'm sick from this test on that feeling well. I had started doing research online that your most places give you antibiotics before this test. And I'm very susceptible to infection. I'm like, what is going on? But somehow in my head, they're telling me you need to come in and do an IUI in two days. And I still wouldn't do it against my-- You're good. My gut, but I was just so desperate and just wanted to believe that this was the doctor. This is the practice. They got my friend pregnant. This is what you have to do. So this was my-- Your initiation. Yes. So wow. Well, I think what's really important about the moment that you're talking about is how needy, any emotional and vulnerable women can be in this moment and how the medical system and so many doctors, not all, but so many, can really lose sight of the human being in front of them. I also hear you're talking a lot about listening to your intuition and learning that lesson quickly. Yes. And this became a reoccurring theme particularly in my fertility experience. So I still went in and did the IUI and had an infection. And I still did this IUI. And I had a polyp. So the whole thing didn't make sense. But I just went in and did the IUI, because that's what they said to do. And the next week, it's got my period. The IUI didn't work. And that was the moment when I knew, I'm not going back to this place. This just does not make sense. What am I doing? And at that moment, actually, it was about a week before I had breakfast with a friend in business. And I shared what I was going through. And he shared with me, oh, one of my good friends is actually an RRE. He started CCRM fertility in New York City. I'm happy to make an intro. And this is before the negative pregnancy test. And I was like, well, I just had no UI. I want to see if it works. God forbid it isn't. And then I'll take the intro. So the minute I got my period, literally the minute I got my period, I went to my phone, I texted him. I said, can you make that intro? Yeah. And he sent me an email intro to a different doctor. And the doctor responded within 10 minutes. And I'm like, all right. OK. Now we're talking. Yes. Yes. Responsive. This is what I need. Made an appointment. And then one in the next week to meet with this other doctor. And I did feel an instant connection with this doctor. Greg and I went to meet with him. We spent about an hour and a half sharing our history, really now trying to understand the whole process. The two fertility clinics were like night and day. It was just a better vibe. Like I felt like, OK, I think we might be in the right place now. And so is this where you ended up staying? This is. OK. It ended up staying here. And look, it was not perfect. Now I don't hear many perfect stories, to be honest, because it's not a perfect system. It's not. And I think we could have a whole lot of other probably five hour long podcast event. without the issues of fertility driven. Exactly. There's so much that has to be fixed there. And my good friend Andrea, who runs the deciding company pregnant, she's actually the one I ended up publicly sharing my fertility journey. She gave me that platform and that voice to be able to share in her platform. But she's someone who's really working on fixing what's wrong in the industry. So there's definitely a lot there. It's such a mixture of just like putting a business before people. Not paying attention to the real humanity of the moments. Also, I mean, I find it amazing that in the medical profession, you wouldn't come to understand a person's unique physical needs. Someone like yourself that had some other conditions that probably were worthy of mentioning. So I mean, those kinds of things are always just so shocking. I know. And that's, you know, and we'll get to this. But I mean, the biggest lessons and what I've learned through the fertility process and what I share with so many were going through it is if you're having issues getting pregnant and you end up at a reproductive doctor, there's some underlying issue of why you're not getting pregnant. Like figure out what those issues are first and treat those before just jumping into treatments. Because if you can solve those, you actually might not need further treatment. It could be as simple as taking certain supplements or just diagnosing a certain issue to know what you're treating before, you know, spending all of this time, money, resources, pain, agony, everything on going through for 20 treatment. I know a lot of people that have gone in so many different directions, whether it's, you know, acupuncture, integrative nutrition, or all kinds of explorations to get to the root of how to find their balance or their fertility or what have you. And my God, you hear so many different stories and some successes and some non-successes. But I agree with you, worthy of exploring your health first. Yes. And I did all of that. I did acupuncture. I did every single thing that people would tell you to try to do to have all these treatments work. I was not going to leave anything untouched if there was something that could help us get pregnant and stay pregnant. I was going to try that. But again, in the early days of starting my fertility treatments, I was still very naive and very vulnerable. And it actually wasn't until I publicly shared through Instagram and Facebook what we were going through that I felt this weight lift off of me. Like, oh, I can come out of the closet really and share what I've actually been going through and not carrying this pain every day. And then it actually became empowering because it became this two-way dialogue. It wasn't me just sharing, you know, going for another IUI today. Here's what's happening. It was, you know, asking for advice, sharing my story, you know, getting that feedback from people. And Randy, I would not have gotten pregnant or stayed pregnant if it was not for sharing on social media on Facebook and on Instagram and connecting with certain people who ended up connecting me to other doctors who helped diagnose other issues, especially in the early days and during the fertility process. Like, my transfer probably would never have worked if I didn't go to a doctor through a friend that I met through Instagram who's now a good friend. Wow. Well, yeah, social media has a very interesting part of your story, which we're going to get to. OK, so you stay with this doctor. You begin the process. How long did it take you to actually conceive? So the first step, the doctor said to us in that first meeting, you know, you have a polyp. It really doesn't make sense to start any treatments until you get rid of the polyp. So he's like, I can do the surgery or you can go to another specialist for it. Like, he really wasn't giving us the hard sell on anything. What he said was this needs to be treated. I don't know why this other doctor tried to do an IUI when you have a polyp because you're probably not going to get pregnant if you have a uterine polyp. So I agreed with him. Like, yes, let's treat what's going on. So I can get pregnant. He does a procedure to remove the polyps. And we thought I had one polyp because that's what it showed on the HST test. He went into the procedure, came out of surgery. And he tells me that my entire uterine lining is covered in polyps and shows me these pictures. Wow. And I'm freaking out because I'm thinking, oh my God. First of all, I don't know the first thing about, what does that mean that your entire uterine lining is covered in polyps. I'm thinking, how do you know I don't have something more serious? And he did say, we send everything out to be biopsy. But it's probably fine. So they took everything out. He took everything out. And then he sent it out to be biopsy. And I'm thinking, oh my God, does this mean that I could have cancer, my ant passed away from ovarian cancer? So all of these things are going through my mind. What does this mean? And it's something terribly wrong with me. And I'm never going to be able to become a mom. And he assured me, everything's probably fine. Well, just setting it up just to be sure. So I get a call about a week or a week and a half later. And he says, you know, send the biopsy out. It came back that you have something called endometritis. So you know when a doctor is calling you, I mean, I'm sitting in my office, and I'm Googling it. He's typing. I'm typing endometritis. Like, what is endometritis? I've heard of endometriosis. But I actually don't even really know about endometriosis at this point. So he explains that it's an infection. He's going to call in 10 days of doxiacycline. So again, I say, OK, he's the doctor. He knows 10 days of doxiacycline. OK, I just listened to what he says. I didn't actually do a lot of research because I just trusted what he said was going to solve the problem. Take the doxiacycline that month, we start the process and do an IUI. And I just assume I took the doxiacycline no more infection because that's what happens when you take antibiotics, right? No. So we do an IUI. Doesn't work the next month. We do another IUI. It doesn't work. I say to the doctor, do you think I might still have this infection? No, no, no. Maybe you took 10 days of antibiotics, you don't. And I say, OK, another IUI. You know how this story goes. So we do four IUIs that don't work. And I said before the last IUI, I said, can we be sure I don't have this infection? Because I just have this feeling like I know my body. I just have this feeling I stole this infection. And that's why I'm not getting pregnant. Because at this point now, I had started to do like real research on what endometritis was. So he said, you know, it looks like we're going to have to do IVF. So let's start the process of IVF. And when we do your egg retrieval, we'll do another biopsy. And you'll see, you probably don't have this infection. So now we start the process of IVF. And you probably know where I'm going with this story. We do the egg retrieval, which we had a very successful egg retrieval. And we do the biopsy at the retrieval. And yes, I get a call a few days later. I still have endometritis. Oh my god. So at this point, and I have been now sharing my whole story on Instagram with everyone. And I met this other woman who had reached out to me or someone connected me to her. And she had very similar story. And she had done all of this extensive research on endometritis. She's sharing all this research with me. And she, I believe it was her that said, you need doxocycline plus, now I'm blanking on the other antibiotic that I was on, too, very strong antibiotics. And asked for it for three weeks. So I called my doctor and I said, I want these two endometrotics. I want them for three weeks. And this is what I'm taking. And at that point, I was just so empowered by that point. And I just knew I finally had the ability to listen to my intuition and speak up to the doctor. Because I was paralyzed. I was paralyzed for so long with these don't- - But that's what fear will do. - And I'm not trying to demonize medical doctors. There are amazing doctors out there. But it does reveal how that level of fear will silence you. And it does become a power dynamic. - Yep. - So, I mean, in a way, it's amazing that you were able to find your voice as quickly as you did. Even though it probably felt like a very long time. - It was a very long time. - It was a way too long. - In my case, I will say, I don't feel like I really found my voice until my son was a few years old. So I feel like credit to you. You hadn't even actually had a baby yet. You found your voice. (laughing) - So, it's like, I feel like I have my voice in every other aspect of my life. But it was because all I wanted, - Yeah. - You sit on the high end of the street. - And the pile of, and yes, and these don't, my fate of everything I wanted my life is in this person's hands. So how dare I tell them what to do or what to give me? I didn't go to medical school. But guess what? There's a lot of information online. And I'm not talking about like a simple Google search. Like, anyone can go research journal articles and read articles on PubMed. You know, you don't have to have a degree as a doctor to read a journal article and understand what medications can work and not work. And you shouldn't have to feel intimidated by sharing that information with a doctor, which I will say, you know, with this doctor, I was sharing, you know, I read this about endometritis and he did send back an email to me at one point during this process that was, and I won't share exactly what he said, but it was not okay. And it put me down as an advocate for myself and as a woman and it, you know, put me into a little bit of a frenzy and to the point where I, all I had left to do at this point in our fertility process was to go in and get a transfer. And I just had to block out my feelings and go in and do it because I was so upset by something that he said to me. You're not gonna say exactly what it was. And it wasn't even, you know, what? It wasn't even the part about it being sexist. It was, but it was about putting down [BLANK_AUDIO] ability to research and find out the information and advocate for myself. Like, and look, he in his mind was basically telling me, "Just relax. Let me be the doctor. You just go relax and, you know, keep your mind busy with something else." But it's like, no. But that level of detail in particular kind of adds a whole other feeling to it. He could have said, "Listen, I'm your doctor. I trust me, you know, try to relax. I'm going to really, but instead he went to the other level of being offensive." Yeah. I feel you. Okay. So, you know, something I learned through that experience and I, you know, have an incredible therapist who, which I feel everyone needs to get their best. Yeah. Everyone does need a good therapist. And, you know, after that experience with this doctor who now had my beautiful embryos in his freezer and now I'm upset about this event that has just happened and she's shared with me and something that I carry with me every single day is, you know, doctors and people everyone were all trying to do the best that we can with the knowledge and information that we have. He was doing the best he could do in that moment. He wasn't trying to upset me. That wasn't his goal. That's just how he happens to communicate and carry himself and it doesn't make it okay. But I have just now learned to, you know, and especially through everything that then later happened in the pregnancy and, you know, dealing with all different types of doctors through our journey there, these doctors are just trying to do the best they can do with what they know. They can. And I also think that, I mean, this is just like my own statement. Yeah. I think that the medical profession doesn't receive the education and the support to handle the humanness of what they're really dealing with. So if you imagine that there is probably like 150 stephenies that that doctor is dealing with in a given week, well, a person might know how to do a transfer, but to be able to handle fear or emotion, a woman who's trying to find her voice, I'm sure there are women that are crippled by anxiety, but to be able to hold space for that part of it probably isn't something that, you know, fertility specialist is taught. They're just a person who knows a science. And that's really tough. It kind of reminds me of, well, now we're making all kinds of commentary, but it all feels related. It's like when you go to a hospital to visit a sick person and their dinner arrives on a tray and it's like frozen crap. And I'm like, this is a place where people are supposed to heal. How is it that the food is this level of zero nutrients? But it feels related to me because it's like, where is the humanity? Where's the thought in any of this? It's very difficult to swallow. Yeah. So where are we now? Okay, so you had to sort of swallow the fact that you were spoken to in a way that was really, really offensive and inappropriate, especially the fact that you were finally gaining a sense of your own inner wisdom, but you had to kind of keep your eye on the ball and go forward. So you did that and then what happened? Did that went in for, oh, wait, let me rewind just for one moment because before we did the transfer, that's when we went to see the specialist who did a lot of blood work and testing and put me on the right protocol for the actual transfer. And that was something that I'd push for with my doctor for a while saying, you know, I have autoimmune issues, I have other things going on, like shouldn't we be sure there's nothing else going on before we just jump in and do this transfer? And the transfer is when you already have a fertilized embryo and that gets placed in your uterus. Exactly. So everyone has to say yes. So now we had a three month window or delay between doing the agritrival on July 23rd, which was my birthday, which was very, it all worked out that way. Oh, yes. And then so my birthday was July 23rd. We ended up having 23 fertilized embryo. So the number 23 kept coming up, which was I still believe in all the signs of the universe there. And then we found out I still had the infection went on the antibiotics. Then I went to the other doctor where I had blood work done and found out I was positive for MTHFR and a few other things and went on another protocol in treatment leading up to the transfer. So now we're three months after this, this agritrival and it was probably at the time it felt like the longest three months ever because all I wanted to do was just do this embryo. Yeah. Yeah. You know, get the show on the road after after all of these months and years of just just longing for this moment. So now, you know, I did acupuncture and did everything you could, but he was eating all the pineapple. You could imagine and try. I went gluten free and dairy free and trying to reduce all the inflammation in my body and was doing everything I needed to do to prepare my body and my mind. So October 24th of 2018, we had our embryo transfer and, you know, just one in that day with just a positive mindset and an open heart. And I was just ready for this to work. And I just, I knew it was going to work. I just believed in my heart like this was going to be it. So four days after this embryo transfer, I just had this feeling that it worked and then I should take a pregnancy test, even though you're not, you don't go in for like 10 days after to get what's called a beta. But I just had this feeling I was pregnant. So my husband leaves to go out and get some food and I just sneak to the bathroom. I take a pregnancy test and all of a sudden I see a faint line. And this is four days after and this is not normal. So I'm like, oh my god. I'm pregnant. And my husband walks in the door when he gets home from getting the food and I just blurred out to him. It works. I'm pregnant. And he just walks the kitchen table and ignores me. He's like, what are you talking about? You're not supposed to go get a blood test for a week and a half. And I'm like, no, but I took a test and he's like, no, you weren't supposed to take a test. The doctor said, don't take a test. And I said, I don't care what the doctor said. As you know, I took a test. I'm definitely pregnant. So I take a picture of it. I email it to the doctor and he says, well, there's only one. One way for that to be positive. So he validated that. That I was pregnant. And you know, this was what was the dynamic with my husband. You know, over our fertility care, you know, he was always about listen to the doctor, listen to the doctor. And the theme eventually did change. Where now he knows that I know my body best and maybe the doctors don't always have all the answers. Yeah. So it was confirmed. I went in for blood work then two days later. And I had a beta done. My levels were already pretty high. And I remember I said to my husband, I was like, I have a feeling the embryo split. He was like, why do you think that? I was like, I just have this feeling. And also my numbers are really high. And I was doing a little Google. So you know, a few weeks later, we went in for our first ultrasound and that very first ultrasound. We just saw one sac. And then it was actually the second ultrasound. I remember seeing the tech and I was looking at the screen and I saw two sacs. I'm getting hot as I'm talking about this. I'm just remembering this moment and my husband sitting behind me. And when you have these ultrasound, it's usually the tech. There's a technician doing the ultrasound the doctor comes in after. So she's like asking these weird questions. Can I say questions? Yeah. So do you, when you are, this is considered high risk because of all the fertility treatments, is that true? So there's sort of, there's more medical involvement at this point when you're in the early stages of a pregnancy. Yeah. So when you do IVF, you definitely have more ultrasound in the beginning for me. And I had a lot of bleeding in the beginning. So I ended up going in quite frequently. But you definitely have more older sounds. I know most women who get pregnant naturally. I know my friends like don't go into like 10 weeks pregnant, 10 weeks pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. Early. I have like one to confirm a heartbeat. And then it's not for a while. You see that first. Yeah. More. Yeah. But I mean, I was going in. I feel like every day, every week. But I had these bleeding scares too. So there are these two sacs on the screen. And this doctor, she says to me, you know, and at that point, there was one heartbeat on one and there wasn't on the other because it was still very early. I think I was six weeks at that point, six and a half weeks. And she said, you know, at this point, like we don't know if it's a viable twin pregnancy, you put in one embryo. So the embryo definitely split. Right. We'll just have to see over the next few weeks what happens. So it was actually a day after that appointment that I started gushing blood and I thought I was miscarrying. And then this happened again at about. You're anxiety levels and nervousness down to my side. I'm like having my own just like experiences. Just. Yeah. Because I know the story, I know we're like not even halfway through. And I'm like, my God, it's a lot. It was, you know, it was really just one one thing after the other. I mean, I won't get into all the details of the bleeding scares, but I mean, each one was like a dramatic move lifetime movie. Yes. And I felt like I was living in this bad movie. There was only a two week period from like 14 weeks to 16 weeks when I enjoyed my pregnancy and actually from 15 weeks to 16 weeks, I got, I was actually sick. Like had the worst cold virus ever that we'd do. So I had one week from 14 to 15 weeks of this pregnancy. That was normal. Wow. So I had said to our fertility doctor when we, you know, found out we were now pregnant with twins, which I was so happy about. I'm like, this is amazing. We're only going to have to go through this once. We're going to have two. We can just be done, have our instant family. This is the universe at work. This is incredible. Your instant family that took years. Yes. So I said to our fertility doctor, I said, who do I go to? Who's the best high-risk twin doctor? Who do I go to in the city? And he said, God forbid anything that happens. In your pregnancy, the doctor, you'll end up at is at Columbia, Dr. Miller Columbia. He's an expert on complicated twin pregnancies. So we might as well just go to him from the beginning. So called gone appointment and started seeing Dr. Miller from about, I think it was like 11 12. My 11 or 12 week appointment is when we went there. So we went for that first appointment and everything looked great. So both their heartbeats, they're hanging out together. Everything looks really great. And I remember in that first appointment, Dr. Miller shared with me, I have to share with you what all the complications can be in a mono-di twin pregnancy. And what that means is both babies were in one placenta, but there were two separate sacs. So it's called mono-di. And he started sharing things like twin to twin transfusion and cords being placed in the wrong place. And I remember almost similar to how I feel this moment right now, just getting really hot. But I did start like tearing up because I didn't want to hear anything negative. Anything negative that could be out there. That was not happening to us. I'm only putting positive vibes into the universe, not happening. So I did not research anything. I went home, went about our day and was just going to enjoy this pregnancy. How could any of that stuff happen? We'd already been through so much. Why would that ever happen? So a few weeks later, we go back for our 16 and a half week appointment, which was to be the early anatomy scan. And we, the tech said this scan was going to take a while for a few reasons. There's twin. So it's, you know, double time for the scan. And they have to look at every single part of the anatomy to be sure everything is developing well. And my doctor shared with me a few weeks prior that he wasn't going to be at this appointment because he had something at the hospital that day that it would, he would send another doctor to survey the scan that day. So she finishes the scan. It's about an hour and a half. And all of a sudden, Dr. Miller walks into the room. And when I see him walk in, my heart just sinks because I just knew in that moment, like, why is he here? Like he told me he wasn't going to be here. And I remember he just walks in. He's like, Hey, I was like, you're not supposed to be here. And he's like, Hey, well, I just need to come talk to you about a few things. I need to do your scan right now. And I just could not breathe in that moment. Like I, everything inside of me felt like it was just ending because I just knew something was terribly wrong. And I just started crying. And I kept saying to him, like, please, like, tell me what's wrong. Tell me what's wrong. And he wouldn't say anything. He's like, I just need to take a look. Let me just take a look. And that was probably the, I say the worst few minutes of my life. And then I'm thinking about everything that happened next. So there was a lot of really bad worst moments. And he said, you know, it looks like you do have the start of twin to twin transfusion. But why don't you get dressed, come back to my office and we're going to talk about everything. So my husband and I go back into his office and he starts, you know, drawing things on a piece of paper. And I'm just like not comprehending anything because how can you in those moments, like you're being told, you have this horrible, your children have this horrible disease that your options at that point are to terminate one of your children to try to save the other children or to do an emergency surgery. Like, what do you do? So twin to twin transfusion is where the two babies blood circulates back and forth to each other because there's one placenta. And they start sharing this blood supply. It essentially gets crossed. And what they can do to try to stop it is do this laser oblation surgery where they go in through your belly, through your placenta with a laser and you're awake for it. They numb you and try to quarterize these vessels to stop the twin to twin transfusion. But there's no guarantee that either twin can survive. Yeah. He was just, you know, giving us statistics in that moment. I don't remember what the exact numbers were, but it was something like, you know, 70% chance of you to do the surgery that at least one twin will make it. There's a, maybe it was 80% or 60% I don't know what the percentage were. He was storing out all these percentages. And I remember I kept saying, well, what would you do? And he would say, you know, like, I can't tell you what to do. I can just tell you, you know, based on what I see and based on numbers. And, you know, here's where I'll tell you that's something that I have learned in business that really helped me in this moment was never make a very important decision in a split second in a moment without doing research and collecting as much information as possible. So we left that appointment and of course, I was actually supposed to go speak at an event at Mastercard that day. And I kept saying to my doctor, my husband, I'm so speaking, I picked up from here right now to go to go speak somewhere. And then my doctor was like, I don't think that's a good idea. So. So the option to do the surgery was not an option. The option to do nothing would mean we would likely lose both of them. Okay. So utero. Yes. Okay. So we could that was an option, but that's not really an option. Okay. So the option at that point was we can terminate one of the twins to try to save the other twin because they can they still can't guarantee that would work or we can try to do the surgery to save both of them. And I remember I said, you know, like, is there a chance the surgery can work to save both of them? He said, there's a chance. And I remember his voice didn't seem that hopeful because our twin Emmy who ended up not making it after the surgery, her hoard was attached at the wrong place and her blood flow was already starting to go in reverse. So they were already able to see which twin had the stronger flow. I guess you could say. And had the better chance. Yes. So. I'll see you that. Okay. So I we left that appointment. I was just in shock and I again, because I hadn't done any research about twin to twin transfusion a few weeks prior when you told us about this. Now I knew I had to do my research. But the first thing I did was I went to Facebook and I typed in TTTS and twin to twin transfusion, just as I did, you know, going through fertility treatments, I joined Facebook groups, I joined this TTTS Facebook group and was connected immediately. I shared my story and what was going on and the women in this group responded to me within seconds. Wow. People offering their advice, information from their experiences and what they went through and this one woman sent me a DM instead of have to connect you to this woman, Carolyn. She also went to the same doctor at Columbia. Like I'm sure she'd be willing to speak to you. So within like 12 hours, I was on the phone with this woman. And she and we still like talk in text all the time. Like she's and we've met a few times. She's absolutely incredible. But she took us back to that moment when she was in that same room with Dr. Miller in this like boardroom looking room. And I said, I'm like, how do you make how did you make these decisions? Like how did you figure out what to do when she luckily is too healthy, beautiful twin boys that she fought so hard for, but she walked us through the surgery and what to expect. And just she was absolutely, absolutely incredible. And so many of the women I met through this group I ended up having calls with. So they could advise me and help me understand what to do. Wow. Can you imagine this whole experience without that level of support? No. I'm telling you, I, I probably would not have my daughter. I know I would not have my daughter without these communities. I wouldn't. Well, it's interesting because I just take a pause to reflect on this because so so much of the isolation that we feel, I would say everybody in some way, shape or form, but definitely women as they become mothers, I think is because we don't live in the village anymore. We don't live in the apartment buildings like my family grew up in Brooklyn. We don't have our aunties and our sisters in our first cousins to hold in space for us. We just don't. But then you think about how much we can criticize social media. And it, it is a bit of an addiction and we do have some issues. But wow, what a powerful thing to be able to find your support and find your community and actually to go as far as to say, I don't think I would have had my daughter if it wasn't for these connections. Wow, coming up, a true life and death decision, a profound loss and then a miracle. So thank God for social media. And I don't want it to be lost about how interesting it is that you have a social media agency. Like that's your business and you've conducted business, but actually you're now experiencing its power for positive, which is amazing. So I just want to just do a quick, quick recap. So we've gone through basically years of infertility, the journey of finally getting to the root of what was ailing to prevent you from getting pregnant. And finally you get pregnant. You're having twins only to discover at about 16 weeks that there's this rare issue with the baby's exchanging blood between each other and you have this profound and difficult decision to make of how to move forward to hopefully save both of them, one of them, and it's the one of the biggest decisions of your life, if not the biggest. And I think it's just a really important moment to just take a breath and just pause on that because wow, not all of us have to make decisions like that in our lives where we know our entire future, the future of our family is truly on the line. Yeah, I remember just saying over and over again, like no one should ever have to make these type of decisions. Yeah. It's just so horrible to like how do you how do you decide, you know, how do I choose to end the life of one of my children? I just I couldn't wrap my head around how anyone can make these choices. And I would say these women who I was talking to on the phone when I met through these Facebook groups like, how do you make these how do you make these choices? And I think I even said to the doctor too, like how do your patients make these decisions? Like what do they think about? What do they do? Like how do you figure it out? And I mean, I think it just goes back to like trusting in your heart and your gut and your intuition and what you feel like you know deep down. What the right answer is. And we all have unique abilities to hear that we come from different value systems. We have a sense of what we can and cannot handle. And that's our own unique answer. I've learned that too. Yeah. No, absolutely. We went back for another appointment that Friday and after that appointment, we knew there was urgency there and we made the decision we had to do the surgery so that Monday we were scheduled for the surgery to try to save both of our babies. And that was on February 4th of 2019. Wow. And so what did you have a sense of in terms of now that you agreed to go forward? What the process would be like from there? So it's really all such a blur because you know, I'm going to share now obviously all the complications that happen after the surgery. But I don't really remember being told of what could happen. And when you're going through such a traumatic time and having to make these decisions, no one should ever have to make, like you're something happens, I think, to your brain to protect you. Yeah, survival. Yes. And it's really, yeah, exactly. It's hard. It's hard to remember. So and again, that's your brain protected from everything that your brain is protecting itself from the pain. Yeah. So, you know, we have the surgery that Monday and the surgery was actually extremely traumatic because when I went into the operating room and I'm already extremely nervous and I was, you know, being prepped for the surgery in the same area where women were having C sections and were being brought into recovery and their babies are coming out and I'm laying there. Oh my god. Why is this freaking me out? Why do they? Yeah, that's something I've already talked to the hospital there that needs to be changed because there's a lot of women who are going in for surgeries while they're pregnant and it's the same area where where you're being brought out after you have a baby after C section, babies are being brought in over there. So I'm hearing these babies crying and I'm just laying there before the surgery just here strolling down my face because that's all I wanted. And here I go. I'm trying to see these babies right now. So I go in for the surgery and I tell the anesthesiologist, you know, my IV, it's really bothering me like it's it's really burning, it's hurting like I feel I feel like something's wrong with it. So the anesthesiologist is like, oh, let me just put I'm going to put some lidocaine through your IV. I didn't know what lidocaine was. He put some put some lidocaine through the IV and all of a sudden I have this reaction, what I which I didn't know was to the lidocaine, but I couldn't breathe. So now I'm laying on the operating table and I had already had the epidural because they were or spinal tap because they were numbing me. I was going to be awake for the surgery and now I can't breathe and I'm hyperventilating and I'm saying like, don't I'm like, Dr. Miller, don't start the surgery. Like I thought I was dying and in that moment was one of the scariest moments of my entire life because it was everything going on in my head was all I've ever said to my husband was I don't want to die before my mom. And here I am thinking about to die in this operating table. And because I'm numb, I didn't even know if he had already started the surgery. And here I can't breathe and I feel like I'm going to die. Oh my god. And let alone what the panic was. It was just that was the worst part of the of the surgery was before now they even started because of that experience. I had just had a reaction to this medication. So they put a mask on me, had me take deep breaths and just have to let this lidocaine get through my system. Now I know I have reactions to lidocaine. So that was not a great way to learn, but now I have to lay there for an hour to have this procedure. And I and my husband couldn't be in there. The fellow, the resident, I just held his hand. I was squeezing his hand the entire surgery and he could see the screen and there was a drape up. And I was just having him talk to me. And he could see the babies on the screen because they put a camera through the like with the laser. So I was like just tell me they're okay. And I was just having him talk to me to just try to keep me calm through the surgery. So we finished the surgery and Dr. Miller says you know they're still too heartbeat and I was just praying and staying positive that they would that that that that would that they were both going to make it. So the surgery basically did just in like one time. It's like it did what it stopped the twin to twin transfusions. So the laser was quarter-rides and quarter-rides. I believe that's how you say the blood vessels to stop the blood flow from being shared. Okay. So now we'll back into recovery. And now I have to spend the night at the hospital to be able to go back up to have an ultrasound the next day to check on the babies to see how they were doing. And I knew through you know the women who I met through this Facebook group that those first you know 12 hours are the most critical of how they're going to do because it's a very traumatic surgery for for both of them. So we went up the next morning at about nine in the morning and the text starts the technician starts doing the ultrasound. And I see her go check you know just to see if there's heartbeat. Some of them first. And at this point now I'm 17 half weeks I've had so many ultrasounds like I feel like I can basically read the ultrasound and see what's going on. So I knew right away when she went over to to Emmy and I saw there wasn't a heartbeat there right away. And I just started crying and saying you know we we tried like we tried everything we could to save her and at least we tried. And you know we didn't make that choice to to end her life that was up to her if she was able to fight and make it through the procedure. And we we tried we tried everything and I have peace knowing that we did whatever we could to try to save her and give her the best chance. And now we just had to hope that Molly could keep fighting and could could make it through through the rest of the pregnancy. Okay so there are so many questions like understand the emotional state of what it means to have inside your body a living baby and a non-living baby. Yes. It's so complex to imagine how to both be inspired by what's possible and yet clearly in grief at the same time. I don't even know where to go with it. But just to highlight that that is in fact happening all at once. And most people don't realize this because I again I didn't know any of this until I was going through the experience myself is that when you do lose a baby during your pregnancy if you're pregnant with multiples you would think that if you have a baby that's not alive and live inside of you can get an infection and die. And if there is another living baby inside of you somehow your body protects you and knows and you're able to carry both the living baby and a baby that's not alive at the same time and tell the end of the pregnancy. So you okay so at this point they inform you that Emmy is gone but Molly is with us. And you are told what what do you do now go home and just you know take it easy you'll come back in I believe at that point you had said every week I think it was every week at that point just for scans to see how she's doing and you know women in a Facebook group were like you had surgery you have to enter an institution like you need to be on you know at least modify bed rest taking it very very easy my doctor was like you know just you pretty much go back to your normal routine but we never made it back to the normal routine because I was now only home for about a day and a half and I started leaking what I found out was amniotic fluid. So now a day and a half later I start leaking fluid I take a picture I text my doctor and he says come to the hospital right now. So we go to the hospital and this is about 17 and a half this is now yeah 17 and a half weeks and we go to the hospital and he wasn't there this is now nighttime and they tell me at you know in triage like seems like your rupture like your testipatsit for amniotic fluid and again I don't even remember being told that that could happen. I'm sure I was, but through everything I didn't know. I didn't remember that from the surgery, you can rupture. - rupture, and then the adics. - rupture the, rupture the sac. So they said, you know, you're probably going to go into labor in the next 24 to 48 hours. Like this is probably going to be the end of your pregnancy. And I'm just hysterical. Like how can, how can this be? How can this happen? Like we've already been through so much. We've made it so far. Like how can this be? So I'm in the hospital now. And of course I go to my Facebook group. - Yeah. - And I post exactly what's going on in real time. And someone in the group comments, you need your ruptured. You need to join the PEPROM group for women who rupture. And to get all the information from there. And she had something similar happen. She ruptured from her twin to twin transuse and surgery. And she joined the PEPROM group. And that's when she got all the resources about PEPROM, which is premature rupture of your membranes. So I joined this PEPROM group. And I post what happens. And instantly I have replies from everyone saying, if there's a heartbeat, there's hope babies can survive without amniotic fluid. And I'm like, what? How is this possible? Like I'm being told in the hospital right now that my pregnancy is about to end. And actually the next day I'm being told, you know, even if you don't go into labor, most people at this point typically will terminate the pre- your pregnancy because babies need an amniotic fluid to survive. And I'm like, well, all of these people in the Facebook group are telling me there's thousands of people in here that their babies made it without amniotic fluid. So what am I supposed to believe? What's happening? And they were explaining, you know, the whole procedure and what you would have to do to end a pregnancy and hearing about, you know, if I de-continue with the pregnancy, her lungs would never develop because we were so early and babies need fluid from 18 to 23 weeks to develop their lungs. And she was gonna have this horrible quality of life, like every single horrible thing. And I, again, I just like couldn't comprehend everything and I hadn't gone into labor. So I said, I wanna go home. So I went home. And then another day later, now I start like leaking like blood and it's looking like not good. So now, you know, freaking out like, okay, am I going into labor 'cause I was cramping, leaking blood now, message my doctor now I'm back at the hospital. Now I spend another few days in the hospital this time. And again, I'm hearing the same thing. Most people terminate at this point. You're at a very high risk of getting an infection once you're ruptured, which is true. And, but again, I'm in the Facebook group and I'm talking to these women every single day. And, you know, I'm sharing pictures of like, what it's looking like, everything that I'm leaking they're like the same thing with us. But we made it till 28 weeks, 30 weeks, 33 weeks. Like your baby can make it if you do all of these different things. There's no guarantee, but you can at least try. So I tell them after a few days, okay, I wanna go home like I'm not ending this pregnancy. And this now went on for a few weeks. I was going in for twice a week appointments and every week I was being told, you know, you still have an opportunity to end your pregnancy in New York State. You can end a pregnancy till a certain number of weeks. And finally, it's 21 weeks. My husband says, we're not ending this pregnancy. Like, what do we do now? So our doctor says, you know, there is a program here at Columbia called the Comfort Care Program. I'm going to introduce you to the head new and etologist. We meet with this woman, Dr. Parvachini, who we call our guardian angel. And she finally was the first doctor that gave us hope and said, if you can hold on till at least 28 weeks pregnant, you know, we have a level four NICU. I've seen these babies without Amyyac fluid make it. And these OBS, they don't know everything. They treat the moms. Their job is to make sure the moms stay safe. There's liability that's involved. Always. And if you can make it till at least 28 weeks, she was giving me all these different percentages. So now I had in my head, okay, just got to make it to 28 weeks. So the next step though at this point was actually making it till 23 weeks, then I could go impatient to be monitored. So we made the decision. We were part of this Comfort Care Program checked into the hospital at 23 weeks for what I wanted to be at least a 10 week, to 11 weeks day. And Comfort Care to be clear, this is a portion of the Columbia hospital where women who are in very high risk situations and are pregnant, where they, where you don't know if there's going to be a good outcome. It's a special program that allows families to be part of the program where you can still deliver the baby, there may be a good outcome. In many cases, they know that there's gonna be a life limiting condition and that the baby may not survive and they wanna give every baby and family the best quality of life, even of it to short life for the child. So they have a very beautiful, incredible program that I'm now very involved in through my experience because of what they were able to do for us. And we think goodness had a beautiful outcome, but we did not know every single day I was in the hospital. We had no idea what the actual outcome was gonna be. I just believed in my heart that Molly was gonna make it. Like I just knew, like if she was holding on, even with no fluid and I'd go up for these scans twice a week and they were the most depressing things ever because there's no fluid. I couldn't even see the baby, I couldn't even see her. - You couldn't? - No. - 'Cause you need fluid in an ultrasound. That's what makes you able to see the baby and in an ultrasound. - Oh, I know. - And then you know that. - Okay. - So I mean-- - But they could see enough of her growth in her vitals. - Yes, because you could like see kind of an outline. I'll show you what some of these ultrasounds look like and sometimes there'd be like a little tiny like pocket of fluid, like a centimeter of fluid. And when I say a centimeter pocket, I mean like a little droplet of fluid, not like the entire ultrasound area looking like there's fluid in it. So again, you know, I'm talking to these women on Facebook every single day and I'm understanding their ultrasounds and what they've learned. And I remember someone saying, you know, if it looks like there's fluid by their face, that's a good thing because then they might be swallowing the fluid and then their lungs are developing. So every ultrasound, I'm like, can I make out her mouth to see if there's a tiny little bit of fluid there? And I remember at one point I did see a tiny little bit of fluid by her face and I said to the doctor, she's definitely swallowing that fluid. Like she's gonna be great and he's like, okay. - You know what I'm saying? - I'm reflecting, that's what I do. But I'm reflecting on, you know, how often, obviously you were going for the big win, which is your baby being born and healthy. But talk about reflecting on the little wins. It's like each day was an accomplishment that you've gotten through each day and each little increment of her growth was a huge accomplishment. It's like really, if you think about, you know what, mindfulness or presence is, it's like, it really is that ability to celebrate these little things. And so often we're so lost in the big. It's like what a reality check. - I celebrated every single day and every single moment. And my mantra was, every day pregnant is a good day. Every day pregnant is a good day. And something that I hadn't even shared yet is one of the women who I met through the PEPROM Facebook group. We connected through Facebook. We chatted, I shared more about the ConferCare program at Columbia. She ended up also coming to Columbia through our conversations and meeting Dr. Paretcini. So we spent 10 weeks together in the hospital. We had the same due date. We were under very similar circumstances. She was not pregnant with twins, but REPshard. And we had each other through this whole journey for 10 weeks in the hospital. And having a friend and a new friend, but someone who was like this instant best friend to go through this experience with. And we, because we had the same due date every Friday, we turned another week pregnant. And we celebrated every Friday. We would have ice cream celebrations and pizza celebrations in the hospital. And then I had my social media celebrations because I was sharing my whole journey on social media. I had thousands of cheerleaders who were messaging me every single day. Yes, you did it. You made it another week. People waiting for my post on Friday to announce it. He made it another week in what was going on. And that kept me going. It's amazing. Oh my God. Wow, I love that. I love that you had this best friend, this someone to be together with you through this. Yes. And we still text and talk every single day. Amazing. I think you've posted pictures of the two of you and your baby. Oh, yes. And we made other hospital floor mate friends who were still super close with. And a lot of women had just very traumatic stories. And you don't feel alone when you're on a floor with all of these women who are going through just the hardest, most traumatic pregnancies that you could ever imagine. And you have this support system of other women who get it. And that was just so, so helpful in these moments to be together. And Caitlin and I actually laughed so much in the hospital. And you would think we're just sitting there crying in our homes. We just made the best of every single day. Yeah. It's funny that you say that because I was going to make some sort of remark. And then I was like, maybe it's not appropriate. But now that you just said that, it's going to be like, it's sort of like the worst best version of like summer camp. Yeah. Almost how you're in like a bunk situation. And you're just silly. And you just talk about everything and whatever. You're just bonding. And I feel like almost like a college dorm room, like with your freshman year roommate. No, like you're just kind of exploring, like getting to know each other and being so silly. And even in the face of something so difficult, I mean, that's the human spirit, though. Yeah, no, absolutely. We really did. And Caitlin is just such a positive. of force and she was just so incredible to have as part of both of our journeys. And now our little babies will get to grow up together and have each other. So you were in the comfort care program for about 10 weeks and as you're getting closer to that 10 week point, which is how many weeks of your pregnancy. So I ended up being induced at 33 weeks, five days delivering 33 weeks, 60s. Wow. Okay. So the, wow. Okay. For some reason, going back into the story, I thought you had her even smaller than that. But she actually made it. Yeah. She had, you know, I probably could have gone longer, but at that point by the time you hit 34 weeks, they, because of the risk of infection when you're ruptured and you're so far along at that point, they set you're better off just delivering then, you know, sting pregnant. Okay. So, but like I, I want to just like slow down for a second because we get to about 33 weeks to induce to have this baby that made it against so many odds, but you also have Emmy still inside of you. So I remember, I think this was the point when we hung out. This was the part where when you told me this that I got emotional and it's happening now. It's like, that's the part where I really get hit. It's like, how do you, how do you recover and yet celebrate from knowing that you have a new baby coming, but you also are going to have to see this baby that didn't make it and face both of it. I think for me, it just says like a mother who's given birth twice, it's like I literally can't fathom at moment. That's where my heart just goes out to you and to this and to your husband and to this whole moment. So I just like, that's the moment that gets me every time. You know, and I was so, so nervous for the birth because the first thing was, was she even going to be able to breathe? Like that was my first thought of everything was I just needed to know that she could breathe and that she was okay. And then it was once I know they're taking her and they're taking care of her now, how do we grieve and say goodbye to our other child? And we also didn't know what condition she would be in. And that's, you know, again, going back to Facebook groups, you know, I was in another group of people who lost a child and born in similar situations to understand like what would the condition, what would her condition be? Like, and I was told by some people that sometimes the baby is one they're lost between 17 and 20 weeks can actually be reabsorbed into the placenta. So that's actually what happened to me. So when, when I delivered the placenta, she was basically part and absorbed into the placenta. So we never got to actually see her, but we did have, we did have a lot of those conversations with the social workers at the hospital because we didn't know what it was going to be in making plans and preparation for that moment and making sure that, you know, we had what we wanted to happen happened in that moment. So it was a, and there was no way for you to know it because there was no fluid. You couldn't see it in ultrasound. It was just, yeah, whatever it was going to be. Wow. So we did end up cremating the placenta and that was important to me because I still wanted to feel like I had Emmy with us and had a piece of her with us. Yeah. That's amazing. So I wonder, I mean, is there a part of you that wishes you could have seen her or do you feel like it was better that it became more of like her spirit? I think now, like looking back at just how everything happened, I feel like that, it happened that way for a reason because I actually wasn't sure if I wanted to see her not. And, you know, I remember saying like, I definitely want to see her. Like she's our baby. I definitely want to see her. My husband would say, I feel like you're going to be really traumatized if you see her. So I think, you know, she just knew what was best and it happened the way it happened. And then, you know, the big focus, you know, after it became Molly and what she breathing in, you know, she didn't cry right when she came out. So I, and they put her on my chest and I, and we have this on video and in photos. And you would think in that moment, I just want to hold this baby and she's finally here. And I was in that moment terrified because I didn't hear her scream. And I'm like, why are they putting her on my chest? Just take her and get her to scream and make sure she's breathing. So they put her on my chest and I just say to the nurse, is she okay? Is she okay? Just take her, just take her. Like I didn't want her. I wanted them to take her to be sure that she was okay. And I wanted them to just tell me she was okay because I couldn't tell if she was breathing. So it took about a minute or so and they had to get all, you know, the fluid out from her ironically. Somehow she had whatever she had. Yeah, whatever she had. It's not fluid, yeah. And then I finally heard like a little cry and they just kept saying she's great. She's okay. She's okay. And I'm just bawling and saying like, I knew it. Like I knew she would be okay. And like that moment. And I'm so grateful that, you know, somehow I remember it. At some point I'd hand in my phone to someone right before I pushed and our social worker was there and she was taking video and our doula was actually taking photos and I'm so glad I just have this moment and experience captured because it was a long time leading up to that moment and for her to be okay. And look, you know, Caitlin had her baby three days before, Torbin three days before and he was okay. Wow. So now, you know, Torbin was okay. Of course Molly was going to be okay. Like that was the only option. Like I just knew it. And my doctor, he had induced me the night before but he had done an overnight so he didn't deliver me. And I called him within like 30 minutes of her being born. I think I FaceTime him and I was like, she's here and she's breathing and she's fine. And I remember he was like, really? Like he just couldn't, he couldn't believe it. I hear him crying. I'm like, I told everyone. I told you guys, my child would freeze. She would be okay. And she's perfect and amazing. And somehow she only spent two weeks in the NICU. Wow. And just had a little assistance the first week on some CPAP just so she didn't have to work as hard to breathe because she was a pre-me. And she is doing incredibly well. Has no issues. Had no fluid for 17 and a half weeks. And I fought for this child. We fought for this child. Everyone on social media fought for this child. And she's here because of Facebook and Instagram. Wow. Molly for president. Yes. I mean, really, I wonder what this girl's future is going to be. Let's talk about somebody who fought to be here and was meant to be here. Oh my God. So some of my questions for you, I mean, and I happen to be a person who's really fascinated by the topic of healing. And trauma, it's something I spend a lot of time thinking about. It happens to be something that arrives on my podcast a lot. And I go into those subjects for whatever reason. It's like on my plate. And you know, it's interesting. It hasn't been that long actually since you've been through this. And I think as somebody who has gone through my own losses and my own traumas, I look back and I think one year, two years, it's still so fresh. Now I can look back on things that have happened. I'm like, it's over a decade. And I'm like, okay, I can have some reflection. So you're still not that far out from all of these really, really intense, profound experiences, both difficult and beautiful and how they intertwine with each other. So maybe you can talk a little bit about the process of healing and the process of coming to terms with this journey that you've been on. You know, I've had medical challenges. I feel like my entire life, I think I maybe shared this with you. But I also have MS. And I have just, I feel like I've always just been dealing with stuff. And somehow all of these experiences that I've had throughout my life, I've always said, how can I turn this into something positive? So I think a lot of my healing has come from, for some reason, I was dealt this hand and, you know, it's awful going through it in the moment. But if there's a way to help other people through my experience and my journey, like that's all I want to do because I know how hard it was going through fertility and then going through this traumatic pregnancy and so many people helped me and my husband along the way. How can I take what I've been through and continue to provide hope and inspiration to other people that are going through this? Because this is happening. The people, women and families, every single day they're getting diagnosed with infertility or, you know, a complication in their pregnancy or as specific as what I had, TTS and PEPROM, how can I help and provide hope because there is hope? And the answer might not always be just listening to the first doctor who gives you information. It might be crowdsourcing information and trusting in your heart and fighting for your family. But if I can provide that to people, like that's what I feel like is healing me. And also I have this beautiful, healthy child every single day. So she gives me so much, you know, perspective and yes, I've been through all of this crap and shit and I wouldn't wish this upon anyone. But I'm so grateful every day and I feel like she has helped me heal over these past months because I have her and I know like every second of every. traumatic, horrible, terrible moment that we went through. And there was a lot of them, like every single day. - Yeah. - It was all worth it. - And I just see very focused and very, I mean, very focused on staying positive because I know how important it is to train your mind and train your brain. And you can well things to happen, I believe it. - I would you too. I mean, now I know why you're also a successful business person 'cause it's actually the same diligence and deliberate effort over and over and over again. - I mean, I also just wanna give you so much credit also. Anybody who comes onto your Instagram will see that you keep Emmy spirit alive. She is a part of your life. You talk about her, you give voice to her and per beautiful spirit. And that's not easy to do because the easier thing is to not speak and is to hold it in. That's where I think repressed emotion and trauma live and therefore all the manifestations of that in humanity. But you're doing it differently and you're sharing and you're keeping her alive. And I think that there's nothing more beautiful than that. - Thank you. - Look, I learned the hard way. I used to keep things inside and that never worked for me. And it's when I was able to release and share that you're able to connect and move forward and release. And I just feel that's so, so important. - It is so important. So I think almost anybody can relate to what it means to be in the thick of a pretty terrible situation or what could potentially be a really terrible situation. And we somehow have to put our mind where we need it to be, to get through and to keep your eye on the ball. And the ball in this case was healthy baby born. So was there like one thing that really you committed to or really helped you get through during those days in the hospital when you just needed to get to that point of that healthy baby being born? - There was a few things that I did. And again, like I just knew all along through my fertility journey, through the pregnancy journey, I, regardless of all the things that were going wrong, I had to stay mentally strong and positive to get to the finish line and to have Molly born healthy. When I ruptured, I followed this P. Prompodocal. So I was drinking a gallon of water every single day. I was saying all of these vitamins that were recommended. I was eating as much as possible now because I was told to get Molly as big as possible 'cause she'd have a better chance. I was doing all of these physical things that I could do. And then I was making sure my room, my surroundings were as positive as possible. So I was diffusing deuteria essential oils every single day in my house. - Yeah, yeah. - In my hospital room. So nurses and doctors would come in there like, is this a spot? And I'm like, yes, it is. 'Cause I again wanted to stay as common relaxed as possible. And then I spoke to Molly every single day and I wrote in a journal every single day too hard. I wrote letters to Molly every single day that I was in the hospital. And I would tell her in this journal and I would tell her talking to her every single night before I went to sleep. I would say, you just gotta hold on. We're going to Disney World in December. We already have a trip booked. So I was just very focused and I would look out my hospital window and it's depressing being in a hospital. It's not an enjoyable experience being in a hospital. But I would look out the window and I would just visualize it being Disney World and the beach sometimes, the mostly Disney World and just us all being there together and enjoying that moment. So when we finally took our trip to Disney in December 'cause we went on this trip. - Oh my gosh. - And just being there outside the castle in the Magic Kingdom and taking a photo and I was like, this is it. This was the moment that I told Molly we would have every single day. So I think she's here because she really wanted to go to Disney. - Did you put her in the mini ears? - Of course you did. - It's amazing. I love that. - It really does show the power of that mindset and that commitment and of the mantra. We're going to Disney. - Yes. - We're going to Disney. And there you are. - Yeah. - Made it happen. So just put your mind to it and focus and just believe and have hope. Just have hope. I'm convinced that most troubles in the world can be healed if women are sticking together. - Yes. - It's really true. We know offense to the men. We love them too and we do need them. But there is something incredibly powerful when women are banding together, supporting each other. There's a level of connectivity and sensitivity that I think is at the core of possibility. I learned a really interesting fact in a conversation I had yesterday with a woman who's in the cannabis industry. She's at the core in environmentalist and she told me, this is related to you. She told me that the cannabis plant, that any plant that becomes CBD or whatever is the healing component has to be a female plant. It's only the female plants that have the healing components that we use for all of the CBD hemp products that are now used for inflammation, for calming anxiety, for a sense of ease in all these systems. And then in fact, the plants that are male, that have the seed are actually capable of destroying an entire crop and have to be kept away from the female plants. I say all of this to say that the female life force has incredible energy to heal and it even shows itself in plant life. That's so interesting. That it's part of your story. Look what these women did for you and what you're all doing for each other. I just love Facebook groups so much. I can't believe I owe my daughter into these Facebook groups. I really, I mean, every single day and I still go back and I post in these groups and share hope. I'll go in there every couple of days and comment and help encourage women who are going through things right now because people did that, people did that for me, people did that for us and we just have to continue to help others. - Yes we do. - Well, I think you're amazing Stephanie. - I really do. - I really do. I can't wait to meet Molly. Oh yes, we have to hopefully-- - I feel like I know her. - I'm in service. - Yeah, this needs to happen. And I know that I do know because we share a lot of community as well that you are a voice of positivity for this community and it's very necessary. So I honor you and thank you. So for letting me be part of you telling this really important story. - Thank you for helping me share it. It was definitely a long time coming that I was, you know, putting off until I really felt ready and like I said, when I met you, I knew I knew that this was gonna be the right conversation and the way to do it. So it's amazing. - It's amazing, but I know that cried. - No. I did a lot of crying yesterday. - It's okay, it's okay. It's okay. Sometimes when we're like sharing our story, we speak it from our strong space and it's okay. And I held the space for the team. - Yeah. - For today. - Thank you. - Thank you, Sam. (upbeat music)