#330 Dr. Craig Koniver - The Godfather of Peptides

If you've listened to this show for a while, you know I'm a big believer in functional mushrooms and adaptogens. So mud water made sense to me right away because it gives you that morning ritual without the full caffeine hit. Their original blend is made with cacao, chai, turmeric, and functional mushrooms. It's got about one-seventh the caffeine of coffee, so you get focus and energy without feeling jittery or dealing with that crash later. And what I like about the starter kit is it actually gives you everything you need to start the routine. You get a full-size 10 of your chosen blend, plus a rechargeable frother, free gifts, and free shipping. The OG blend is where a lot of people start because it has that chai and chocolate flavor, but they also have coffee, matcha, and turmeric blends if you want something different. For me, mud water is just a cleaner way to start the morning. It feels steady, it tastes good, and it fits right into the kind of routine I already want to be building. Ready to make the switch to cleaner energy? Go to mudwater.com/srs and grab the starter kit. Use code srs and you'll get 43% off. The frother alone is worth it. That's right. Up to 43% off with code srs at mudwtr.com. After your purchase, the last how you found them. Please show your support and let them know we sent you. If you spend any time off-road like I do, you already know how easy it is to end up second guessing where you're at, whether you're still on a legal trail, or if the route ahead is even worth taking. That's why I've been using on-x off-road. It's an off-road navigation app that shows trails, public and private land boundaries, places to camp, and detailed trail info all in one place. And what makes it really useful is the amount of actual trail data. You can check difficulty ratings, terrain details, trail photos, even recent reports from other riders before you head out there. The other big thing is you can download maps ahead of time. Because once you lose service out there, your phone is pretty much useless. But with on-x off-road, everything still works offline. And if you're riding with a group, their location sharing feature lets everybody stay on the same map so nobody gets lost or separated. What I like most about it is it gives me a lot more confidence when I'm exploring somewhere new. I'm not wasting time backtracking, accidentally ending up on private land or trying to figure things out once I'm already deep into the trail system. I can plan ahead, know what I'm getting into, and spend more time actually enjoying the ride instead of worrying about navigation the whole time. Switch on-x off-road in the app store or Google Play. Again, that's on-x off-road in the app store or Google Play. Dr. Craig Conover. All right. Welcome. Thank you very much for having me, Sean. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to talk to you. I'm excited that you're here too. So I guess we've known each other for two years already. I think about two years. Yeah. It feels like six months. Yeah, no. Well, time is a crazy thing, right? It is. It is. Yeah. No, I think it's been about two years we've been working together. Wow. Well, my health has gotten a lot better in the last two years. Good to hear. So, thank you for that. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah. It's an honor to work with you. Yep. Likewise. Likewise. Yes. So, Andrew Huberman. Shout out to Andrew. Connected us. Right. And we've been working together ever since. Not together, I've been, you've been my doctor ever since. So, it's an extreme pleasure and honor. Likewise. Likewise. But, well, I'm going to go ahead and give you an introduction. We've got a lot of stuff to talk about today. Yep. So, here we go. Dr. Craig Conover. 20 years ago, you walked away from the disease-based model of medicine and founded Conover Wellness in Charleston, South Carolina. A science-driven practice focused on performance, optimization, and longevity. Just then, you've administered more than 50,000 peptide treatments, giving you what many consider the most extensive clinical experience in biological optimization in the country. Your patients include Navy Seals, Hall of Fame athletes, Fortune 100 executives, and members of Congress. At 46, a near fatal blood clot nearly took your life, changing not only your health, but the way you viewed medicine and performance overall. Thanks again. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. So, before we get to it, we've got a couple things to knock out here. One, everybody gets a gift. Amazing. That's definitely not going to help with your longevity, but they do taste for a day and go, I love gummy bears. Literally. Perfect for me. Seriously. Right on. Right on. And then, I got a Patreon account, and that is, we've grown it into one hell of a community. I think we're like 200,000 strong on there now. And so, honestly, when I started this thing, I couldn't get anybody to, I had no advertisers, nobody wanted to do business with me. And so, we started a Patreon account, and they've grown it into one hell of a community. So they've been, a lot of these people have been with me since I was in the attic of my house. And then, you see what it's going into today, and that's all because of these guys. So, one of the things I give them to give back is they get the opportunity to ask every single guest a question. Okay. So, this is from Eric Alger. If you had a healthy 45-year-old guy in your office who wanted to be as strong healthy and mentally sharp as possible for the next 40 years, what are the top five things you'd tell them to do? That's a good question. Yeah, I mean, I still think the, I think there's, I'd mesh it some basics, and then some things that probably aren't basic. So, I think everyone's familiar with sleep and how important sleep is, right? I think sleep is really challenging for people, particularly in the modern day. I think the trouble is, is, you know, for my perspective, people have sleep attachments. So, they're very worried about going to sleep, and if they get enough sleep, you know, what does it mean the next day? They only get four hours or six hours, and so then people end up turning to pharmaceuticals, for example, right? And now they're taking ambient. And I have plenty of patients who, you know, maintain good sleep on these drugs. However, we just have to wonder what is that doing to them long-term and even more than I don't, I don't know if they're getting to the deep restorative sleep phases from these drugs that help them fall asleep. So, first thing is, you know, kind of lose a sleep attachment, but find some things that you can take intermittently for sleep, right? I look at sleep as like, some nights I'll take theine, I'm a big fan of theine right now, some nights Ashwagandas, some nights glycine. Different compounds that are natural, we can get into peptides for sure, that help promote not only falling asleep, but staying asleep, I think that's number one. I think we'll get into further in the show about how important rest is, you know, for optimization, whatever that means, that'd be number one, number two. I think the most important thing for people, once you can sleep and have that foundation is changing, you know, what happens between your ears, you know, and changing your thought process, understanding that not every thought you think has to be true, informing more of an empowerment type of approach and being positive. I think I want to talk to you more about that because I think positivity is such a powerful tool that's not talked about, particularly in longevity space, we talk about compounds. Number three, things that people can take. I think there's a few supplements that I think stand out to me that really help people, number one is CoQ10, CoNZMQ10, it's a fat, soluble vitamin, CoNZM, works in the mitochondria, really helps our mitochondria work more efficiently, which is the battery of the cell. As people get older, certainly someone is in their 40s, it tends to be more in the kind of decline, starting to decline, starting to be more in the degenerative phase. We're hoping to change people into the regenerative phase, which is possible. But CoQ10 stands out, you know, that if anyone's going to take one supplement, that's the one I promote. CoQ10. CoQ10. That would be three things. Four, you know, I'd get their hormones tested, you know, I think the most tangible aspect to human health as we age is hormone or decline, meaning once we get hormones balanced and optimized, it becomes more tangible, for men, testosterone, testosterone is a big deal. And, you know, kind of optimizing and replacing testosterone is so important for women, I think the most important hormone is thyroid, and making sure their thyroid is optimized. So that's number four. Number five, just because I believe in them so much is figuring out, you know, peptides. There's such safe, safe, safe compounds and utilize correctly and judiciously and individualizing that and figuring out what that is can accelerate kind of getting into that regeneration phase. Okay. Those five things, I'd say. There's a follow on here. Okay. I like this one. And what popular treatments or supplements would you tell him not to waste his money on? That's a good question too. You know, the way I. it's a good question because, I mean, everybody's promoting something these days. You don't know. You don't know. I think, you know, the thing, and I know we'll talk about it more, the thing that bothers me about whether you call it longevity or optimization performance medicine. is kind of this model, maybe we call it the Biohacker Influence or Model, which is screaming at people to do everything, and the idea is if you don't do everything, you don't do anything, and from where I sit, that's very stressful. And so I have people come into my office every day, taking 47 supplements, doing sauna, cold plunge, every single day, taking 16 peptides, you know what I mean? Doing all these things, it's almost if they become so fragile that they can't even lead their life. And so getting away from that mindset, I think is the most important thing. There's not just everyone's so different, right? Like certain people go through phases where they have to work on their liver detox, they have to work on figuring out their gut, they have to work on hormones, they have to work on their mitochondria. So it's hard to answer that, but I think from a mindset perspective, I'd encourage people not to get caught up in, like, if you're not doing all these things that people are yelling at you to do, that's a better place to be. Okay. Is the, you brought it up, cold plunge sauna. Yeah. Is it overhyped? I think it's good. I think, again, to me, everyone's got to figure it out themselves, right? Like, I think there's good research on both, right? I'm personally not a fan of cold plunge. I don't like cold, so I just don't. So is there health benefits from doing cold plunge for sure? I think it's overdone in the sense that you have to cold plunge every day, you have to reach a certain temperature of a certain time period for it to count. You know, I'm a big fan of people, you know, helping shepherd people to make decisions and try things out, because to me direct experience is the only thing that matters. So I want people to try it out, right? Like, try out during the sauna. How does it feel? Be really honest with yourself. I tend to like sauna. We have an infrared sauna. I used to do it all the time, and I do it a couple times a week. I like how I feel, but I don't feel like I need to do it as much anymore. Cold plunge, I've lots of patients to do it religiously, you know? And I would just always ask the question, are you doing it because you're seeking alignment within yourself? Are you doing it because you're seeking permission? You know, are you getting, you know, allowance to do it? And I think there's a big differentiator there. Same thing with diet. I mean, diets very personal to people. You know what I mean? I thought, what's the best diet? I don't know, right? Like, I want you to try different diets, whether it's carnivore, vegan, vegetarian, you know, Mediterranean, paleo, keto, and see how you feel, right? And you're going to gravitate towards some at different points in your life, and depending on what you're working on. And I think that's great, you know? But there's whatever, 16 different diet books written every year, telling people how to eat. I think it's over done. What about water? Water is complicated, yeah. I think water can get deep. You can go into lots of different facets. I think first and foremost, what you said, people need to filter their water, you know? Like, I don't ever drink tap water. You know, I just think that you're taking from. I can't stand it anymore. I go to a restaurant, and if it's tap water, I won't. I don't think it's healthy for people to drink. If we look at and analyze it, what's in that water? It's getting worse. It used to take a probably throw a picture up here right now. But we got, my wife got a water filtration system. I don't, for the first time. I don't know, three or four years ago. Yeah. And it used to take. The first thing goes into is this clear filter than it goes through these huge tangy, reverse osmosis or something. And actually, it's not reverse osmosis. Oh, it's not. No. But, um. Supposedly, it's better than that. Okay. But, um, I don't know if there is anything. I like it, and I can tell a huge difference. But it goes through this clear thing. First, it used to take a couple of months to get it used to take a couple of months for it to get gunked, like nasty looking. It's like two, three weeks now. And the tank, the tank is brown. It just shows you. I mean, there's chlorine. There's particles floating in it. Yeah, and if you think about it, there's chlorines and fluorines and bromines. There's heavy metals. There's pharmaceuticals, right? Like, where does it go? Where people excrete all these pharmaceuticals are taking into our water supply. There's fluoride, I said. I mean, there's so much junk and toxins and pesticides, glyphosate. It's all in there. Yeah, yeah. And so, I think, to your point, filtering water, you know, but then you got to re-mineralize the water. You do need to re-mineralize. Re-mineral. Re-mineral. We're out of our lives, yeah. So, I mean, I think that's. I think that's the best way to get minerals is from the water. So, you can either, you know, use a water filter and re-mineralize. You could drink sparkling natural water, you know, that has minerals in it. But without those minerals, you know, you could make an argument. And there's several ways you could do this. You can make an argument that the client of the human population over the last six years mirrors the loss of minerals from the soil, from our food. The human population is declining? For sure. When we're devolving as this, you know. I think for sure we're devolving. We're not, we're not evolving. We're devolving. I thought you were talking about deaths. Well, I'm just talking about our health. Our health and chronic disease. And like, is that the whole world? I think so. If you, did you ever underscures, if you're ever seeing that documentary, I think it's called. It's something like "Lib-200" or something like that. And they go to all these zones. Is it the Blue Zones? Yeah, is that what they call it? I know what you're talking about. It's like seven or nine Blue Zones around the world. Yeah, there's like Japan, Japan. They tried Italy's one, but they're one in Italy. Yeah. What are those people doing? I think they're doing many things, right? And I think they're trying, what they're trying to do now is trying to say, "What are exactly are those people doing to let them lead long lives?" Obviously, there's going to be genetic contribution. But I think if I had to pick one thing that those communities do, is they are a community. Like they have strong connection and ties as a community. They also tend to walk after eating. I mean, I think it's subtle. So I think it's little things, you know? But it's hard to extract and say, "Okay, what can I do here "where I live to be like them?" I mean, the reality is you're not. I don't think that's necessarily a good goal. It seems like they have a lot less stress. I think they handle stress differently. You know? I think stress is such an interesting topic, you know, that comes up usually when I meet a client for the first time, I want to really understand how they're handling stress. And I don't just mean like, what do you think about stress? We tend to, we like to do this urine and saliva hormone test to see how there were adrenal glands, which is the triangular shape glands. So on top of our kidneys, that processes and metabolizes and excretes cortisol, which is our main stress hormone. And I put a lot of value in understanding, you know, because there's a, we're hardwired for a cortisol response. Literally, it's hardwired into us. And once you start escaping that rhythm, bad things start to happen to people. So I'm kind of fascinated with it. I put a lot of value in understanding, like, what are the biological mechanisms to how someone thinks and handle stress in their role? You guys did that on me, I think. I did that early with you, yeah. Your facility office down there is, we, you've just done an incredible job, your team. Well, thank you. It's amazing. I mean, it was, we were talking right before the show started. It was like, you've really created, it feels like you're at a family. Everybody gets along, everybody knows each other. Everybody takes their job very seriously. Everybody loves their job and wants to be there. You see them in many places. Well, it's important, you know, I think that we get to work with a lot of people. And I really want to instill, like, we really want the customer service to be at its highest. You know, because we get to people are vulnerable with us. People aren't feeling good. We put a lot of time into kind of how do we create a unit. I'm so grateful for my team. Like, they are just, they always show up. They want to work hard, and they're really dedicated to helping the people we work with. So I appreciate you saying that. Well, they're awesome. So kudos to the carnival wellness team. Seriously, you guys are awesome. I appreciate that. You're doing amazing work. Well, thank you. I love grilling in the summer. But once you move past burgers and steaks, it gets frustrating fast. Vegetables fall through the grates. Fish pulse apart, food sticks, and clean up takes forever. That's why I've been using Hexclad's barbecue collection. Hexclad took the hybrid technology they're known for and built it for the grill. Their barbecue grill pan gives you stainless steel searing power, cast iron durability, and non-stick convenience in one pan. The perforated design lets heat and smoke flow through. So vegetables, seafood, fish, and kebabs still get that grill flavor without falling apart or disappearing through the grates. They've also got the barbecue grill topper, which gives you more control with delicate foods or multiple portions at once. And clean up is easy. It's dishwasher safe, easy to wipe down, heat safe up to 900 degrees, and the terabond ceramic non-stick coating is free from forever chemicals. With over 1 million customers and more than 50,000 five-star reviews, people clearly love cooking with Hexclad. So if you're planning on spending time behind the grill this summer, don't make it harder than it needs to be. Stop losing food through the grates. Stop fighting clean up and upgrade your backyard cooking setup with Hexclad's barbecue collection. For a limited time only, our listeners get 10% off your order with our exclusive link. Just head to hexclad.com/SRS. Support our show and check them out at H-E-X-C-L-A-D.com/SRS. Make sure you let them know we sent you. A lot of people want to talk about trade craft. How to hide, how to conceal yourself, how to escape, how to evade, but here's the thing, the true professional. That's not the guy that's always on the run. It's the guy who never shows up on the map to begin with. Which brings me to my next point. Your phone is talking. It's talking through apps you may or may not use. A lot of them you probably never use. Talking to servers that you've never even heard of that are telling them where you've been, where you are, what you buy and all kinds of other information that you don't want out. And that's where Glacier comes in with secure DNS. You hit a button, close the app. You never have to open it ever again. That's concealment. Spent a long time building this app. Almost a year. It's the perfect app to conceal yourself. You can get it on the Apple App Store or you can go to theglacierapp.com. Remember privacy is in paranoia. It's protection. The Glacier app. So let's go, let's dive into your story a little bit here. And so you had a, you had a death sentence at age 46. It sounded like I did. I did. Yeah. So I was, we were friends in Hawaii who we'd see once or twice a year and we'd come back. It was August of 2020. And soon after we got back, I started having abdominal pain. I tried to dismiss it and not think much about it. But it persisted. It got worse. So I was like, well, let me figure this out myself. So I did testing on myself. And from what I could see from the lab results, maybe I had a gut infection. So I was like, okay, I'm going to take some antibiotics. I'm even going to take some steroids because to calm down the inflammation, I did that seem to get better. And then I remember I was playing tennis with my wife. It was Labor Day of that year. And I had to stop playing. And the pain was so intense. So I have a friend who's a radiologist. I got in touch with him. I said, hey, I got to do a cat scan. So he arranged for me to get a cat scan the next day. Went and had a cat scan. Then I remember driving back from my office. This was the day after Labor Day. And he said, you need to go to the emergency room right now. This is a very serious situation. You have what's called a portal vein thrombosis. So this is a blood clot of the vein that kind of comes up from the lower extremities into the liver. So it's the main vein coming to the liver. If you lose that, you die. And so I stopped at the office picked up my wife. Didn't really know what was going on. But I knew I was in a lot of pain. And I honestly, I don't know if I'd ever heard of a portal vein thrombosis. I've certainly heard of a deep venous thrombosis, which is what a lot of people have, you know, heard of a DBT. And I'd heard of a pulmonary embolism, which happens in the lung, blood clots in the lung. But this was in between it. I don't think I'd ever heard of a portal vein thrombosis. We got the emergency room. They started me on a blood thinner happen. And I remember the ER doctor walk in and he said, Hey, did you see the actual radiology report of what, you know, what was diagnosed? I said, I didn't. So I handed it to me and I read, read about the blood clot, but I also read that I had a mass in the head of my pancreas. Well, and I turned to him and I said, because my wife was sitting there and I said, I can't tell her this. And so he told her. And I can still hear the shriek. That's 46 years old. I'm obviously aware that if I had pancreatic cancer, that's almost a death sentence. Yeah. So it was during COVID. So she had to leave, you know, couldn't stay in the hospital. And they said, we want to do an MRI of your liver to look at this more in depth. And I remember they took me up to the MRI suite. But for whatever reason, Sean, they left me there for a while. There was a delay or something. And I had the most amazing experience, maybe of my life, where I was with God and just received tremendous peace, like knowing that everything's okay. And it was an amazing moment. And all I can tell you, it's hard to articulate, but all I can tell you is it's all okay. You felt it peace. I felt it total peace. Knowing that you, I just felt total peace. I just knew I just knew it was okay. I just, I for sure, you were going to die. I wasn't sure. I can't say that. I, you know, met a mass on your pancreas. It's pretty close to a death sentence. So the next morning I got through the night, the next morning that same ER doctor comes in. Be now old. That just came over you. I lost track of time, but it was probably over a two-hour time period that and let me back up. I've always had a close relationship with God. It's always been foundational for me. I've always felt connected to God. This wasn't new per se, like this feeling and what that feels like. It was new and in how far it went. It was new and like, wow, this is, it's all okay. Like it's all okay. God told me he's got my back. Regardless of the outcome. Wow, regardless. So the next morning that same ER doctor came in and he said, hey, I was thinking about you overnight. Did you see your MRI results? Let's say no. He said, you don't have cancer. Yeah. What did you have? So I can't tell you that I didn't have a miracle healing. It was gone. Gone. Holy shit. Or, I mean, I'm pragmatic. I'm practical. Maybe it was an overread by the radiologist. I don't know, but he saw something. He saw something or wouldn't put it on the report. And my research after that is that a portal-bane thrombosis, like all the time occurs in the setting of cancer. So maybe I did have a miracle. Seriously. And I've witnessed other patients have a miracle healing. I have. It's possible. I don't doubt it. And for your listeners, like, and this is an important point, like anything is possible. Anything is possible. And for me, it was such a pivotal moment in my life. And even though it was that it's potentially darkest hour, I would never trade that. I would never do it differently. Ever. Because that experience I had with God and finding that total piece stays with me too today. Wow. And I'm so thankful for that. That's powerful. So thankful. And that's why I just know it's all okay, no matter what. And I think when people, because people a lot of time, they want to separate out, hey, is this disease? How does this relate to God? And it's all the same. It's all linked up. It's all synchronized. Obviously, depending on what people believe, but for me, um, so transformative and unbelievably transformative. And then, you know, it was very confusing time being a patient. I had doctors didn't know what to do with me. Well, don't worry about it. How did you so? Then your wife comes back. How did she? Yeah. And then I, so yeah, sorry. So she comes back that morning and, you know, literally crying together, like, she spent the whole night upset. I mean, I get upset thinking about it. Like, she thought she's going to lose me. Man. And comes back and I get to give her the good news. You know, and I followed up on this. I've done several scans since then. This isn't a fluke. I don't have it. Wow. And, um, you know, and then being able to, you know, I'm very grateful for my wife because she's been in my rock. Man, I love these God of stories. We're talking about some of this kind of stuff and breathless. Yeah. Yeah. This is where it gets really real. This was 2020. This was 2020. This was 2020. And, you know, it just affected me personally, it affected me professionally, you know, because I still had the blood clot, but they didn't know what to do with me. It was such a fluky thing. And you know, I know we're going to talk about a lot about peptides and kind of more outside the box therapies, but I want to make the point like they put me on a blood thinner that I take to this day. I believe that pharmaceuticals are here to help us. Do I have to take it probably not, but it gives me a peace of mind, you know, and for me, that's very important, very important. I got a lot of life left, you know, I got a lot that I want to help people. And so, you know, taking that blood thinner every evening, easy. And I believe in it. I believe in it. Wow. But I mean, being in the hospital was so interesting because I was the patient, you know, and I what happened was as they, they released me the next day with on a blood thinner was probably too soon. And by the end of the week, I'd worsening pain and I'd go back to the emergency room. And they scanned me again and said, now the blood caught it extended and was now affecting my colon and my large intestine and that they had to figure this out even further. They couldn't figure it out had every test under the sun. Never could find anything that said it was this or that. Very, very strange. So they switched up my blood thinner. I was in the hospital for another almost a week. And we know I met several doctors and it really was profound for me. I'd been on this path of like, I think we're all in a path like, what are we doing here? What is the purpose? And for me, that's both personally and professionally. And being a doctor and knowing what I know and then being treated as a patient by doctors, what's that of my hematologist? My hematologist is amazing. I still work with him today. These doctors were not very helpful. I remember, you know, I was in a lot of pain. And I remember saying, Hey, can I get a prescription for pain medicine for when I leave? You don't need to give me a lot. But just I'm still in some pain. I'm not asking for a ton, but some, and they told me no, we're not going to give you any pain medicine. And I was like, I don't understand, like I'm really confused. Like I have legitimate pain. I've been in the hospital almost a week with a portal band thrombosis that you guys have never seen, 46 years old. And you refuse to give me pain medicine. Well, what is, what's going on with the healthcare industry? I mean, it's just, you can't get an, I don't know what it's like everywhere here. You can't get an appointment anywhere. It's like a six month wait. I mean, you go, you go there. They spend 30 seconds with you. Yeah. All your blood work work looks great. They don't go through shit with you. No, you know, I mean, did they just change the mammogram thing too? Or are you supposed to get it. They've lowered the age of mammograms that you want to talk to you about. Yeah. Well, they, they spurt it out. Like it used to be, I don't know. I don't know. My wife knows. We were just talking about this, but they used to be every six months. And now they've upped it to a year. And they've, I think they raised the age, I thought. But and she's like, what, what, like, what is this? So it's just all the good doctors are now out of insurance networks. They're all gone. You know, and and what, what, what happened? Like we, we, well, we go to private health. I mean, yeah, you come see me. Yeah. I think, I think it's worth, like, and this was a kind of inflection point for me. Having this experience, you know, I've always kind of been trying to understand how do we get here? And really, then I kind of dove into it. And if we go back and, and I want to express to your listeners, the healthcare system is actually working perfectly because the healthcare system treats us as customers, not patients. So it's working just fine. Did you know it's the largest employer in almost every state? It's a surprise. I didn't know that the Lord. And in many states, it's the fastest growing industry, many states. So we have a system that's working super well as a business. And, and what I learned from researching it, it goes, it goes back deep, right? So in 1910, there was something called the Flexner Report, which was kind of created by John D. Rockefeller, an Andrew Carnegie, right, to the biggest wealthiest families in America. And what the Flexner Report did was to look at medical education and decide what should go forward and be allowed and focused on and what should be excluded. And it's hard for us to understand this because we live in 2026 where everything is dominated by pharmaceuticals and randomized controlled studies and surgeries. But if you go back to before the 1900s, other types of health modalities were flourishing that we now, in very real sense, consider rogue, right? So I'm talking about acupuncture, chiropractic, naturopathy, herbalism, hydrotherapy, fitness, nutrition. What they did literally was say medical education can't focus on those. And I lived it, right? I went to medical. I graduated in 2000. And the model that I came up from, which I'm sure is teaching today, is when a patient walks in the room, you're immediately thinking, what medicine might prescribe me? You're not thinking what's going on with the patient, what's the story? How did they get here? What are they feeling? You're thinking, what diagnosis can I come up with to give them a medicine or three medicines? And that system works very well in the system. And so for a lot of people talking about, oh, peptides, right? Well, there's no studies because we've been trained to think that it doesn't count unless there's a study. But if we go back and look, for example, ashwaganda is a botanical herb used in the Ayurvedic system. It's been in the historical record for thousands of years, thousands of years. And I remember I gave a talk many, many years ago at this power company in Charleston. We're talking about sleep. We're talking about different natural options. And I said, well, ashwaganda actually is great at helping clear out cortisol receptors and people, you know, observing them sleep better. Over time, taking ashwaganda, it's very safe. And a gentleman raised his hand because, but has it been studied? I said, well, it's been studied in the historical record for thousands of years because that doesn't matter. What do you mean that doesn't matter? But that's where we are, right? And so we have, we've been trained, we've been programmed that we have to look at anything like we do pharmaceuticals. But the reality is we can't, right? The pharmaceutical testing is very expensive. I mean, everyone knows that, exorbitantly expensive. And it's also very biased, right? I don't put a lot of weight on that. Like when I'm sitting in front of a patient, I'm interested in them. I want to know what works for them. I'm not interested in the study that says, hey, if you're 45, I don't even know what that means. Most of it's done in artificial settings. They certainly can't control for the things they say they can control for. Rarely do they control for all the variables of being human sleep, diet, movement, thought process, just doesn't happen. Now again, I'm not saying pharmaceuticals are bad. I don't think that pharmaceutical companies are evil. I think they're playing perfectly into the industrial medical complex perfectly. And I point that out to your listeners because we don't talk about this enough, right? We talk about it as there's one way to do this, right? And if you look at statistically, the majority of Americans take pharmaceuticals. That's how we define health. Yet the majority of Americans are overweight tired and depressed as well. Very true. And it's challenging. It's challenging for listeners to know what to do. Where to turn. I mean, I feel like a lot of people are kind of waking up to this. I do too. I'm hopeful. I sure so have. And I actually think that COVID in the pandemic as bad as it was, there was a silver lining there. I think doctors lost a lot of faith in trust from people and for good reason. Yeah, for good reason. But I think it helps spur on for people. I want to take care of myself. You know, I, I got COVID the next year after I got that portal vein from us. It was August of 2021. I got COVID. I think it was the Delta variant. That was died again. I mean, I've never been as sick as that. I mean, I was out of commission for three weeks at home on oxygen. And I could get better. Like it was one of the weirdest times. Like I would I just, and I finally had to be hospitalized. And I didn't want to go to the hospital because I was afraid if there's my blood, I would measure my blood, such my oxygen saturation, it was in the 80s, right? It should be 95 or higher, certainly 93 or higher. My was in the 80s. And I'd be at oxygen. How am I know if I went in, they'd want to put people on ventilators. And that was killing people. As we didn't know, crazy time. And so I was reluctant to seek help for sure. Wow. Then eventually I had to go to the hospital and I did fine, but how long were you in there? I think, so I went for a weird reason. So, I developed, I think pneumonia on top of the COVID, and I was taking antibiotic, but because I was on a blood thinning medicine, the antibiotic made my blood thinner, made my blood super thin. There was an interaction there. And I remember waking up, I was sleeping on the couch, couldn't even sleep in bed with my wife, because I, it was so uncomfortable and I was on oxygen. I didn't want to disturb her. But I remember I was in the middle of the night woke up and I started urinating Frank blood, because my blood had gotten so thin that I was literally urinating blood. I woke her up and I was like, I got to go now. And I went and it all worked out okay. I mean, and I only had to stay there, I think it was either one or two nights. I'd stay in the emergency room. There wasn't even the hospital was packed. It was totally full. But I think there's some silver lining, I think that people to your point are waking up saying I want more than just taking a pill. I sure was all dead. Everybody I know has. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I feel like there's like two healthcare systems now. There's the private healthcare system that seems everybody seems to be gravitating towards. And then there's the traditional one, the traditional American one. Yeah, that that or maybe North American one. I don't know, but there's there's the in network and out now out of network and I think it's accurate. And nobody wants to be in network anymore. Well, I think I think especially people my age and older, you know, I don't think a lot of young people don't really carry yet, but they should. Well, I think I think we have to I think it's time for evolution of it, right? I think that if we look at the history of it and people saying, well, health insurance health insurance is not for the healthy, right? Like it's a disease-based approach. And I think it does a good job, right? When I was really sick, as much as I question, I still was there to help me. If you fracture your leg, it's there to help you. If you're in a cute situation, it's there to help you. But that's not how we get healthy and that's not how we optimize. And I think that's why people are getting disgruntled. Is there any, what do you think about the Ivermectin thing? I'm a big fan of Ivermectin. Is it true? This is an anti-cancer drug. Yeah, I think it can be used for that. How do you use it for that? It depends, right? So they're looking at it more and more in terms of how to dose it. I learned about it during COVID, right? And we learned about people doing research in terms of clinical research in terms of weight-basing Ivermectin. We would use a dose of 0.2 milligrams per kilogram, and you find out the patient's weight, and then you do a calculation, say, this is how much they need, and you'd either give it to them, again, for COVID symptoms. Even though it got such a terrible rap after Joe Rogan said he was using Ivermectin, then the world came down saying, how dare you? Even though it's been used for decades, safely worldwide, I mean, Ivermectin is an inexpensive valuable medicine. But during COVID, one of the big troubles not to get off course, I'll come back, is the focus, all the focus was on the vaccines. The focus was not on treatment, and that's still probably true to this day, and they're still promoting COVID vaccines, which is crazy to me. But if we remember, it was all about you need to get your vaccine, not that, what do you do if you get COVID? And Ivermectin seemed to be for a lot of people, again, just clinically a way out, and a quick way out. And so since that time, people have been exploring, can we use it for other inflammatory conditions, whether it's viral illness, whether it's cancer, cancer is complicated, but I'll tell you an interesting thing. To this day, if I were to call in, send in Ivermectin for a patient to a pharmacy, they wouldn't fill it. Why? Why? Yeah. And I'm not going to say that's every pharmacy, because it's not true, but it's most. And they say, what is the diagnosis code? And now, that doesn't matter, right? If I see you as a patient and I decide, hey, this is an appropriate drug, and I want to make a point to patients, because this always comes up, well, it's off-label. 90% of medicine that's prescribed is off-label, by the way, meaning we use it outside of the indication that the FDA approved it, right? So the best example is antibiotics. Antibiotics tend to have a very narrow classification, right? Meaning I'll take penicillin for a type of bacteria. However, people use penicillin for lots of different bacteria. We don't actually test the bacteria anymore in many ways, because that's inefficient. Most medicine is prescribed off-label. And so what they're saying, so the FDA approved for Ivermectin has nothing to do with a viral illness, has nothing to do with cancer. So this has happened to me so many times where I thought it was appropriate, because of the safety profile number one, it's super safe. We don't see side effects from Ivermectin. And to my clinical observation and working with patients and having a relationship and prescribing is they seem to get better faster than ones using Ivermectin, not always. And so if I send that into a pharmacy, I've spoken to so many pharmacists who say, well, we need the diagnosis, couldn't I was like, well, here's the diagnosis, that doesn't qualify, we can't prescribe it. We're not filling it. What was it originally used for? I feel like it was, I don't even remember at this point, it was like something along the lines of like scabies or something like that, some like small, yeah, that's what it's used like for worldwide, we'll call it a parasite, not sure, like a type of parasite. So if you tell the pharmacy, oh, it's a viral illness because there's a diagnosis good for that, they'll say that doesn't qualify, so we're not filling it. And I'd say, well, so you're going to stand the way of the patient getting the medicine and say, well, we don't feel comfortable filling it. I mean, this is a real thing. Very strange. And I think it's a huge disservice, huge disservice to patients, because again, I'm trying to talk to, we've all heard of the Hippocratic oath. Why, why have they, I think, a politicized, that's it, they got politicized, it was determined, again, if I don't know, this is just my observation, we go back to COVID, we're more interested in the COVID vaccine and giving everyone a vaccine, then actually coming up with solutions to help them when they got COVID. And I think it's a remnant of that. And people were taking Ibermect and having success, and that was like, how dare you, you should be vaccinated. And it became this, you know, line in the sand, which I think is unfortunate. Yeah, I just, I was just a mexico, bought a ton of Ibermect, and because I was reading about the, yeah, the anti-cancer, it could be an anti-cancer. For sure. I think there's a lot of this. I mean, there's a, there's a big push, I don't do it for seconds, I don't really work with cancer, but there's a big push from doctors to work with cancer, repurposing drugs to help with cancer, you know. So there's different clinical scenarios I've heard of patients using doxycycline, Ibermectin, Mabendizol, and other anti-parasitic medicine, methylene blue, which we'll talk about, another one of these agents, which can be helpful, metformans, another one. I mean, there's a whole host of them that we can actually be smart about. Doxycycline now. Doxycycline seems to kill cancer stem cells. So it's, it's not like those cancer stem cells to grow. Again, cancer is very complicated. I'm not an expert by any means. But I think, you know, I think if, I try to answer questions, what would I do? If I developed cancer, I would want every option on the table. Yeah, me too. And unfortunately, the United States was very limited in state of California, interestingly enough. I've learned this recently because I talked to a doctor. State of California, I don't know if it's still true, but it was true. If they see a patient as cancer and you recommend something that's not a pharmaceutical, they'll come after your medical license. Not surprising at all. Yeah, it's, and it's, it's not how we make progress, right? I think one of the challenges we live in such a dogmatic society is either bad or good. This is evil. This gets, and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. And it's hard. It's hard for people to know what's real. Let's take a break real quick. Sure. I'm always listening to something on the road, working out, walking around the house, traveling, whatever it is. And what I like about Amazon Music is it puts music, podcasts, and audio books all in one app. So now with Amazon Music Unlimited, you're not just getting music and podcasts. Your subscription also includes access to audio books, which makes it easy to keep something good going, no matter what you're doing. I've been listening to Project Hail Mary, and that's the kind of audio book that really works in this format. Hearing the story and the narrator's voice pulls you in differently. You get the pacing, the tension, the personality of the characters, and it makes it easy to stay locked in whether you're driving, training, or knocking things out around the house. With Amazon Music, you get music, podcasts, and audio books all in one app. Try it today. Do you ever wonder what it takes to make an episode of the Sean Ryan Show? In this exclusive studio tour, I'm taking you behind the scenes for an in-depth look at every part of the operation from the editing room in the main studio to the spaces where we film range day, content, and more. You'll see how the show comes together. Meet some of the people behind it and get a closer look at the work that happens off camera. When you become a paid member of the SRS Patreon community, you get more than just the podcast. Watch new episodes early alongside other members. Join monthly live shows with guest Q&As and submit questions just like you see on the show for upcoming guests on the protector tier. You'll also unlock exclusive range day videos behind the scenes content and premium ambience videos that you're not going to find anywhere else. Join the Patreon community today and get access to the full experience. All right, Doc. Before we move on to the the outer and the inner war, I forgot to bring up some of this ancient medicine stuff. Native American, Egyptian, Greek. Yeah, I mean, I think for me, first of all, for whatever reason, I've been fascinated with ancient history. I remember being as early as five years old or six years old reading about ancient worlds. I actually, in college, I majored in something called Old World Archaeology and Art. I've been archaeological digs. I've always had this fascination with what happened in the ancient world. And then I, you know, go to medical school and then, you know, learning about, you know, kind of just changing how I think in terms of I learned that the medical model was really two things. Either you're going to take a medicine or multiple medicines, or we're going to have surgery. And when I kind of started thinking about what do people do 100, 200, 300,000, 2000 years ago, they seemed to me more connected one to God. And two, we're trying to articulate systems for human health. They just didn't have the vocabulary to describe that we would, you know, term that in modern terms. And I find this fascinating, you know, because I really do think that many ways as a society, maybe across the world, we're devolving. We're going the wrong direction. You know, and I think some of that is our knowledge, but certainly the wisdom that's applied, we're totally disconnected from nature, you know. What do you mean, devolving like we're getting sicker? We're getting sicker, dumber, and less connected. I think most people can recognize that. Oh, yeah. I mean, I was watching a documentary. I can't remember the document. I'm trying to think of the name, but it's not going to come to me. But it was talking about all these diseases that we have today are not even organic diseases. They're man-made diseases like cancer. That's what I'm talking about. It's about the pollutants and yeah, microplastics and fucking smog and you name it. It's all the shit and the soil, all the chemicals, all everything. It's not even. We wouldn't even have these diseases if we wouldn't have destroyed the planet. 100%. So tying it back to this, what I call the, that's the outer war, right? That's what we're being poisoned. And it's very real. You know, for example, men with testosterone today, you know, it's like 50% less than our grandparents. Yeah. It's a real thing. Why is it? Why is what happened? I think it's what you've just said, right? I think if we look at what the environmental toxins, right? Like, for example, microplastics, we look at even just the things that people probably don't take seriously, but the Wi-Fi, all the invisible waves were so connected to these phones and screen time and changing our physiology. You think the EMF stuff is. I think it's very real. What do you do about that? Again, I try to be practical, right? There's some people who are saying, never use yourself, and that seems stupid to me, right? Like, it's such a convenience and such a tool. But I, and I struggle with it. Like, I should put my phone down more, for sure. I struggle with this. So, so what do I do? I try to limit it, right? I certainly don't. I try to keep it off me as much as I can, right? So I'm not. I used to have it in my pocket all the time. I think that's probably bad, right? It's a antenna. So if I'm sitting anywhere, I have it put down. And then something that I found to be really good is this device called Blue Shield, BLU Shield. Blue Shield. Yeah, it's a company called Blue Shield. And they make this device. And I've gotten to know the guy who runs it really well, Brandon, who's super smart. They make it this cube that I put in our bedroom. And it helps to mitigate the incoherent effect of Wi-Fi. Now, this is not my territory. I don't understand this well. But the way he explained it is, with all these waves coming at us, which, you know, they desynchronize our own physiology, our own biochemistry, the rhythms of our body. And something like this cube, it helps to get them back in sync. That's the best I can understand. Interesting. It's. I was going to paint. Yeah. You've heard of the EMF paint? Yeah, you know. I was going to do that and then I read that you don't want to do that because then yeah, I think I read that if it is and there are then a bounce, which is bouncing around and it's actually worse. I think that's right. And so, you know, I think, you know, one thing I'm excited about for our new office is I think the kind of the next phase and wellness is how do we deal with this energy? What is energy? And so we're going to be setting up the first of its kind with the help of Brandon, you know, different modalities such as PEMF, which is post-electrical magnetic field therapy. People are pretty familiar with that. We're not just electrical beings, but we're magnetic beings. We're going to combine that with vibrational therapy. What is that? Vibrational is where there's like these big plates and it basically just vibrates you because the mechanical force on your body, right? This is one of the reasons that's not spoken about, but exercise is so important because you're changing the mechanical force on yourselves. And again, tying it back to what did people use to do thousands of years ago, right? They had to do things like a lot of walking. They had to lift heavy stuff. They had to sprint every now and again. They were in touch with nature in ways that we don't. Now, not saying don't go to a gym because we have to work out and we have to take care of ourselves. But most of us, you know, work out under artificial lights, right? We don't take our time when we work out. We're rushing through. We're certainly not focused on the workout. We're thinking about what do I got to do next, you know? And I think just trying to tie it all together to answer a question about ancient, it's very hard for us to understand what people did in the ancient world because we think that we are evolving and that everything's getting better, certainly technology's better. But I don't think we know how to use it appropriately. The electromagnetic, it's called electromagnetic therapy. Have you heard of a rife machine? Yeah, for sure. Is that real? Again, you explain it. I'm not the expert, but here's all I think. I think that we are all frequency based, right? We are energy. We are different. We're operating at different energy spectrums, which has to come down with different frequencies. People can understand this. The best analogy I've heard is a radio, right? You turn the dial to radio to pick up what's coming in from, you know, different sources, different towers, shooting out the different, whether it's AM or FM. And when you get to the one, it becomes crystal clear, right? Well, I think of us as the same way. We're antenna for what's going on in our environment, particularly our brains are, I think, right? That's how we pick up thoughts. That's how we pick up on stuff is because either you're either dialed into the wrong station, right? And we talked about that before this podcast and some of that's how that happens. And so if I think one of the cool things that we're going to be able to use with technology is to help us become more coherent so that we can then receive messages in a more coherent way that we can be more attuned, lined up. And to me, that's really important. Unfortunately, where this outer war, right, is all of these, right? We're basically our planets being microwave, right? If you look at all the satellites circulating above the earth, right? And all this neural link stuff that's coming and all this star, I mean, it's a lot. We're basically microwaving ourselves in an environment, which is already polluted with pesticides, herbicides, glyphosate, toxicities, heavy metals. I just tell people, think about all the airplanes flying over us every single day. The amount of jet fuel, which has a ton of heavy metals is pouring down on us every day to your point. This is all new. Last 50, 100 years, all of it's new. And so our lens, we're told to believe that this is natural. It's natural to have heart disease and cancer and autoimmune disease. By the way, there's more autoimmune disease than cancer and heart disease combined. More neurodegenerative disease, people are concerned about dementia, Alzheimer's dementia, Parkinson's, you know, it's very real. And so we're being attacked. I mean, you know, I think all of that's real. And so a lot of the work we can do, which I'll get into, which I think is the the inner world which is working on ourselves. - So the inner, you think there's two wars, the inner world and the outer world? - Yeah, I think most people pay attention to the wrong things. I think most people are paying attention what's going on in the media, what's going on in politics, what's going on people out to get us, right? And they don't take the time to actually work on themselves. They don't actually take the time to, I'm definitely guilty of that. - We're all guilty of it. You know, and I think that it's hard because we're told that what matters more is what's going on the outside. But if you think about it, I mean, I can tell you for me and non-negotiable for me in the morning is I get up every morning, or every morning early, excuse me, if these two little dogs we're obsessed with and take them out, feed them. And then that's when I'm total silence, praying, meditating, journaling, that's a non-negotiable for me. Because when I do that, I don't care what happens the rest of the day. We're all busy, things are coming at us, people needing stuff, gotta do this, gotta accomplish that. But to me, that, and then the end of the day when I can connect with my wife, I mean, catch up, and kind of share what happened to the two non-negotiables. Most people would say, well, I gotta get to the gym, I gotta work out, I gotta, you know, be whatever, you know. To me, it's about the internal conversation more than the external conversation. Now that's just me. But to give you an example, I mean, I work with one of the, just thinking of this, one of the most famous actors on the planet, recognizable across the world. Not gonna name names. By all the time, you look at him leading best life. And he is, no doubt, very successful in all facets of his life, great family. But this part of his life, when we started working, wasn't as developed as he wanted it to be. And I helped him kind of get that back for himself about what it is to wake up and have that silence and work on yourself, you know, the introspective work, which I call contemplative introspective or, you know, being contemplative, I think is really important and the silence. And, you know, over the whatever year and a half, almost two years I've been working with him, you know, he shared with me recently 'cause you had some big movies come out that he's really bound his purpose and more importantly, his peace. And that peace, like I told you about what I was able to find in that hospital, I think once you find it, changes everything. And that, to me, is what this inner word about. And that's why I think, not to overstate it, but I think we've gotten lost. And I think that people think, particularly with health and longevity, that it's a destination. I don't think it is. I think we're already here. I think it's just directional change. And I really see, love to talk more about all these different therapies, they're a bridge, not to get us anywhere, but to get us back to ourselves. That's what's so cool. They're literally a bridge to help us find ourselves again. And that, to me, is fascinating. And that's how I look at that. I really think whether it's peptides or nutrients or hormones, they're a bridge. Because ultimately what I want for all my patients, all the people I care about, not to need me anymore, to figure it out. I want to continue to help. But that's a very contrast to the medical model, where if you're not a customer, you're not paying in, they don't need you, you know what I mean? Talking about two totally different things. Interesting. Where do we go from here? Well, I think we've described the outer world pretty well, right? I think it's the things external. I think it's also our attention. I think we're paying attention to social media feeds and the algorithms that are being presented to you. And picking aside, and that's how you're defining your life. You're not paying attention to yourself. A lot of distractions. I think those phones are super helpful, but they're also a huge distraction. And again, I think you can use them well. I'm not saying to put down your phone or ignore it or turn off social media. You think you gotta find everyone's got to figure out what was going on. I turned off social media. We were talking about that. And breakfast has been gone for over a month now. Everything gone. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. It really is. You get more clarity. You know, yes. And again, I don't want to keep harping on this, but what do people do 100? I mean, social media's new phones are not even 20 years old. It's crazy. But we think this is how life has been lived. It's not even close. So what do people do 100, 200,000 years ago? They go with each other, you know? They were finding things to eat. They were taking care of each other. Yeah. There was a lot more purpose, and to me, it's about finding your own who you are again, to find that awareness, to find that vitality, right? So when I think about how can I help someone lead their best life from a health perspective? It's tapping into that vitality. I just read the last book I read, which I think you're probably a lot of your listeners now. And if you know that by Dan Millman, the way of the peaceful warrior, wonderful book. I mean, it's wonderful about this gymnast back in the '60s, who's this, you know, super awesome college gymnast, who's from a physical perspective. I mean, he's got it, becomes qualified for the Olympics. And he meets this kind of crazy old man who takes him under his wing and teaches him about how to find purpose and attention again in his life. So it just doesn't pass him by. And there's so many little valuable, you know, things that came from reading that book. Because I think, you know, he talks about what he thinks is that his mentor is the goal is becoming a warrior, a peaceful warrior, and the job of a peaceful warrior is to find unreasonable happiness. And he's unreasonable happiness. Meaning that he says the full uses things to, he does to take him to happiness. Whereas the warrior can be happy at any moment in any time. And I would take that a step further and say, "What I'm hoping for people is to find unreasonable joy." And I think we'll talk about it a little bit. But for me, it's the best analogy. I didn't come up with it as being a warrior in a garden. Meaning, you're strong. You take care of yourself and your family. But you also know how to cultivate peace and love and compassion. When you're building a business, nobody tells you how much time gets eaten up by the back end, payroll, onboarding benefits, tax filings, and HR questions. It's not optional. And if it's messy, it creates problems fast. That's why I like gusto. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote-friendly and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay higher onboard and support your team from anywhere. What I like is that gusto keeps the important stuff in one place. payroll, onboarding benefits, taxes, HR. It's all organized, so you're not wasting time chasing admin work. Gusto is trusted by over 500,000 small businesses. And gives you unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price with no hidden fees or surprises. Try gusto today at gusto.com/SRS and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com/SRS. One more time, gusto.com/SRS. We talk a lot on this show about performance, recovery, and trying to stay ahead of all the stuff in the modern world. And the reality is we're constantly surrounded by things our biology was never really designed for. EMFs, artificial light, processed foods, microplastics, stress. You name it. The list goes on. That's one of the reasons I started using armor a colostrum. What interested me is it works at the cellular level to support your body from within. And this isn't just another supplement. It's a bioactive whole food with over 400 bioactive nutrients that support gut health, immune health, recovery, and performance. I've been using armor a colostrum and I've noticed a difference in recovery and overall energy, especially during high stress work weeks or hard training blocks. I've also noticed less bloating and just feeling better overall throughout the day. And it's clean too. Sustainably sourced, physician-founded, and easy to work into your routine. We've worked out a special offer for my audience. Receive 30% off your first subscription order. Go to armora.com/SRS or enter SRS to get 30% off your first subscription order. That's a-r-m-r-a.com/SRS. I like what you said this morning, that quote. About the game? Yeah. One of my favorite quotes, yeah. If you want to win the game, stop playing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what this, that's what I'm saying with this outer war. People are playing that game and we're being played. And it's very real. If you want the most biological sovereignty, you've got to focus on yourself. Yeah, stop playing that game. Play your own game. Yeah. It's all possible. Yeah. It's killing us. It is. It is, and I think it's taking away our attention. [BLANK_AUDIO] way our ability to know what's real and what's not real. I mean, I feel for people. They don't know where to get reliable information. One of the things I wanted to talk to you about is one of the problems with the current medical models, what I call the three traps. The first is that I call the pill push. This is what most people are used to where we've talked about it. It's giving people pharmaceuticals and more pharmaceuticals and more pharmaceuticals. Again, I don't think doctors mean poorly. I don't think doctors are out to get you. They don't know any better. One of the things I take pride in what I enjoy doing is I train other doctors and providers, done this for years and years and years, and I love it. I love the collegial aspect, but I also love because I didn't have someone to help me get to where I am. I had to make a lot of mistakes and most of itself learned through experience working with great patients, but I want to help them start to think differently. I mean, it's obvious that you're not against a pills because we just talk to you. You're on a blood, but I'm not taking the past six years. Yeah, I take it. I'm not against medicine, but that's one of the traps. The next trap is the supplement shuffle. We have all these functional medicine doctors who basically exchange pharmaceuticals for nutraceuticals. This is very common. Nutraceuticals. I've never heard that. Yeah, like supplements that I have fancy word for supplement. I mean, I have so many patients who come into my office and they're in 47 supplements. This is common. Well, it's natural. Well, that doesn't mean it works. It can be safe, right? So patients are taking their vitamin D, their facial or their probiotics on and on and on. They don't even know what they're taking anymore. And then they get thrown into this loop where there's constant testing, testing, testing, and the kind of the paradigm is take this for that. I have a problem with that. And then the last trap that we're most familiar with, which is the biohacker influencer, which is all in, right? And promoting all of this testing, like crazy, you know, now this full body MRI scan is becoming so popular. We're so bad. I think, again, I don't know if it's bad. I just think you have to be careful. You were basically looking for things we don't necessarily have. And I think it can create a lot of anxiety and stress. And here's what I tell you. And I think this is hard for people to get to, because they say, well, I want to find it. So I can do something about it. Well, how do you know your body wouldn't have done something about it anyway? Right? So to give you just modern day examples, and this is real, they've recently looked at, I think it was in a article in JAMA, one of the big medical journals. I think it was 2022. They found that CT scans would likely contribute or cause 5% of cancers annually over, I think it was like 100,000 plus cancers would come from CT scanning alone. Right? Mammography, which we touched upon. They've done studies to show that mammography does not change mortality, meaning we have plenty more women diagnosed with breast cancer, yet women are not living longer because of that. Colonoscopy, same thing. So we're screening, and I get it because people like, I got to find it. But then we're creating problems, right? I mean, I've had patients who diagnosed from a mammogram with breast cancer. And again, I'm not saying they shouldn't do so. It's an individual choice. But then they go down the chemo path. They go down the radiation path. And that can be ultimately what kills them, not the cancer. And this is a complicated and it's also a very touchy subject. And I'm not speaking out against these therapies. I think there's again, like we've said, if I was diagnosed with cancer, I want all options on the table. The problem is we're being pushed in coercion in a certain direction that if you don't screen for it, you're doing something wrong. I have an innate trust in the human body that God created to figure things out. So you don't get screened? I don't do those screenings. No, I don't. You don't do the MRI? No. I've had too many patients who, and I understand, they say, well, I want to know. I say, but the problem once you know is you can't unknow. And you're going to be anxious every day until you do something about it. And they say, no, I'll be fine. And that's not what happens. Because now you've diagnosed with something in your liver. I mean, I just had it. I just had this conversation with the patient this past week. He, one of the common tests that men get done is what's called a PSA, prostate specific antigen. It's not a good test, but it's a blood test to look for prostate cancer. And so, my general not a good test. It's not a good test because there's a lot of inconsistency with it. And so the majority of men, like the vast majority of men in my practice, who I've taken care of the last 25 years, who've had an elevated PSA greater than four, has nothing to do with cancer. This is why it's a bad test. So anyway, we do routine, I believe in blood work that's different than screening per save. But I do routine blood work. And for our patients, we do a lot of blood work, depending on what they're working on. And he had a PSA and it was elevated higher than four. Okay. Well, he was concerned. I got it. And so eventually we did an MRI of his pelvis to look at his prostate. Nothing there. Maybe his prostate was enlarged. So the PSA can elevate from an enlarged prostate. The PSA can elevate from a prostate infection. Lots of other things. So we repeated the blood test over time. Totally fine. So last week, he sends me that he did a full body MRI. And that full body MRI is not very, it's not the visualizations way worse than a dedicated MRI if that makes sense. So the image quality is way worse. Okay. So he did a full body MRI and he sent it to me and said, we need to talk because they see something in my prostate. Now six months ago, we did a dedicated MRI of his pelvis. Nothing. So again, we're going to have to repeat that now. He's going to have to have a dedicated MRI of his pelvis. I'm confident that maybe his anatomy is a little bit different. Maybe his prostate's a little bit enlarged. But I don't think he has prostate cancer. But what he's created for himself is a lot of anxiety. Yep. Yep. And it's a slippery slope. When you've got that anxiety, what do people do? Well, now they're drinking more. Now they're taking, you know, whatever it is. Now they need more benzos. It's a slip of that anxiety and that stress. That'll wear you out. What do you recommend if somebody gets diagnosed with cancer, this one of your patients? Do you have places that you recommend to them? I do. They're in the US. No. The number one place I write, there's a couple of things is I just met a patient and his wife is dealing with non-small cell lung cancer, which is aggressive. She's doing okay. She's in the conventional route. I'll just tell you what I told him. I'm going to meet with her when I get back next week. There's a place that I learned have been Thailand called the Bangkok Stem Cell Center. Where they're able to do things that we can't do in this country. For example, I have a friend who lives in Bali who introduced me to them. And he was introduced and sorry, last year he got diagnosed with this very rare type of fibrosarcoma. Just like a connective tissue, soft tissue type of cancer, super rare, but it contend historically to metastasizer grow. We had the biopsy. He saw that he had it, so he went to this place and they measured something called natural killer cells in his blood. The natural killer cells seem to be the type of white blood cell that attacks the cancer in the blood. This is an oversimplification. So when they tested his natural killer cells, they were really weak. And they were saying, "I'm going to make this up less than 5% kill rate." Again, I'm messing up the details. So they were able to do some things to amplify how those natural killer cells grow. They retested him. Now he's greater than 60% and then they're giving him back his natural killer cells as an infusion into the fibric cancer. Correct. And it worked. It's working. Wow. And that's just one example. The other thing I tell people to do when I told this patient, and this is confusing, you brought up water. And again, not the expert. But people are familiar with hydrogen. Hydrogen is the first element in the periodic table. It's got one electron, one proton. Hydrogen over time morphs into something called heavy water, which we call it deuterium. One electron, one proton, one neutron. Now the problem with deuterium is that it's a little bit heavier. And so our bodies in our cells can't use it as efficiently. I know we're going to get into the mitochondria. This might be a good time. The mitochondria, the batteries of the cell, when we know that people stressing themselves out, working late hours out of sync with natural world, we get tired. As we get older, we get tired more and more. We don't have that energy to do all the things we want to do. A lot of that academic research comes back to the mitochondria not working well. The mitochondria take our fuel, things we eat, bats, proteins, carbohydrates, and through a series of steps turns it into energy water. By the way, it's deuterium depleted water. I'll get back to that in oxygen. In the main way this This works and why I want to talk about is there's five hubs that sit on this mitochondrial membrane. We call them five hubs, they call them cytochromes. The first hub is where NAD is used. NAD is a chemical cousin of Niasin, so chemical cousin of vitamin B3, and what the mitochondrial membrane is supposed to do is we're supposed to exchange electrons for protons down these different hubs. So you can just think of it like a conveyor belt. So we're moving these electrons and protons to eventually get to hub five where we spin this wheel to make ATP oxygen and water, again oversimplification. Hub one is where NAD operates, and this is where I think most people get stuck. I think this is where we form a traffic jam, and so that exchange of electrons and protons slows just like if people are familiar with the traffic jam, you get stuck in traffic can't go anywhere. So we can't make as much energy. This is very real. This is why I'm a big believer in NAD therapy, and I think I've overseen more NAD treatments than anyone on the planet. We got into it 12, 14 years ago before it was popular or anything, very impressed with how NAD works, very impressed. Doesn't work for everybody. There's a lot of holes. We can't measure NAD levels, but clinically observing people who, before they start NAD to, after they go through NAD treatments, it's transformational for most people. Interesting. And so that's part of that mitochondria. That's hub one. Hub two has to do with something called riboflavin, succinic acid. Hub three is where that coq tan I talked about is utilized. Hub four is also called cytochrome-seoxidase, is where methylene blue can bind. Methylene blue basically, which has become super popular, people can take methylene blue and basically jump start their mitochondria because we can jump over these other hubs so we can get these conveyor belt work. This is that stuff. I think you injected it in me. Yeah, you took it as an IB. Yeah. And people eat it too. You can take it orally. People take it under the tongue, turns their mouth blue. Yeah, that's that methylene blue stuff. Fascinating compound. You show, I think you show me my cells under a microscope after that. We did live blood analysis. Yeah, good memory. Yeah. Yeah. And so what is it doing? So it's basically allowing for more efficient transmission of electrons for protons so you can turn that wheel. That last wheel is what's important. So you're making more energy, right? Because that energy stored in this ATP molecule, adenosine triphosphate. And we want more of that because that is the potential to have energy to go in your nervous system, help you think about, help you move, help you throw a ball, help you shoot a gun, whatever you want to do, help you train, right? We need ATP, doesn't need water, you know, the largest substance in our body is water. And you need oxygen, right, to live your life. So I mean, you showed me, when I went there, you showed, I think there was, I think there was a before and after comparison of what the cells looked like before you gave it to me. Yep. What they looked like after. We did. How long does that last? Probably not. I don't know, per se, because we haven't tested it out kind of longitudinally. And what we're talking about for your listeners is live blood analysis, right? As opposed to throwing your blood from your veins, sending it to a lab, and then days later that blood is tested for a volume of a hormone or a cholesterol level, we're looking in real time. We prick your finger. We put your blood on a slide and look at that slide under the microscope. And we can see how your red blood cells are moving, how your white blood cells are aggregating or congregating. And what we've seen over and over and over and while you remember it is before people do treatments like this, it tends to move very slowly and be kind of sludgy. This is represent, this is what's happening in your bloodstream. And then you do a treatment like methylene blue and you look under the same microscope hour later, and now the red blood cells are moving, they're cruising along. It's fascinating. It's fascinating. So what is it doing? Well, there's an electrical charge, and again, this is over my pay grade, but that methylene blue is helping the electrical components of the cell and helping us make more ATP, also more water and more oxygen. So should we be taking that every day? I don't know if you need it every day, but you know, a couple of times a week is probably a good thing, yeah. Couple of times a week. It tends to be long acting. Again, it's gotten very popular, people are talking about it. People can take it every day, but I don't think you need to. I think it, you know, again, for me, it's least effective a dose for the maximum result. I think we're going to be reasonable about it. But yeah, I think it's fabulous for the mitochondria, also seems to be a great cognitive enhancer. So methylene blue can, what's called a mild MAOI inhibitor. So it keeps your dopamine and serotonin in your nervous system a little bit longer. So people report back and say they're a little bit sharper. And then we talked about a little bit earlier, kind of repurposing drugs in terms of cancer therapy. I think methylene blue is utilized in that scenario as well. So it's versatile therapy. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I can keep talking about the mitochondria. I can talk about this to cheer me if you want. Sure. Yeah. Go back to the deuterium. So again, you asked me what, what would I tell people, what I'd do if cancer, right? Go to that place in Thailand, if I could. And then I'd work on the water. Water we talked about, you know, you have to filter it, you have to remineralize it. But water over time becomes heavy water. That's just from being on the earth. That's by no fault of anyone's. It's been shown. So I'm going to make up numbers here. But most people have a deuterium level of about 150 parts per million, okay? There was many, many years ago, they found a group we talked about, you know, the blue zones. They found a group of people living in Siberia region, no cancer. And when they measure zero, zero, their deuterium levels were in the 80s. What is deuterium? So deuterium is hydrogen that's morphed into essentially heavy hydrogen. So it's got now one electron, one proton, one neutron, whereas hydrogen itself just says one electron, one proton. So there's going to be, we're going to see more and more talk about this because I think it matters how do you deplete your deuterium levels, okay? Does that make sense? Because, you know, because if you just eat the regular food, you're not going to do it. If you just drink the regular water you're doing, you can't do it. So there's one way to do it, well, there's multiple ways, but the most practical way is you actually have to drink something called deuterium depleted water. So it's a fancy and complicated process where they're taking that deuterium and removing it from the water, okay? So as opposed to being 150 parts per million, you can get it down to five. So if you consume one consumes deuterium depleted water over and over and over and over again, over time they're going to deplete the deuterium. Now, there's a lot of work to be done, but it resonates to me that if one has cancer, that's the perfect scenario for one, working to deplete their deuterium, because based off that cohort of those people living in some Siberia region where there was no cancer and their deuterium levels were way lower than the average person. So the idea is oversimplification, water is the most abundant compound in our body, right? I think everyone's familiar with that. Most of it's, you know, the stuff we make by our mitochondria is deuterium depleted. That's the best kind. The stuff that's around ourselves has a lot of deuterium. If we can convert and get to lower deuterium levels, it makes it easier to use for our body. And again, I'm not an expert on this. This is an oversimplification, but if I'm your listener, I'd look into it. So we need hydrogenated water. You need to do deuterium depleted water, but isn't that the one and the same? They're similar, but they're not the same. Deuterium is a kind of isotope of hydrogen. So how do you get deuterium depleted water? There's a couple of companies worldwide who make it. It's expensive. You have to order it. You do. It's not like a filter or something. You have not. I know the guys who started the company in America, they don't make it here. It's too expensive. So drink, light water, L-I-T-E water, so drink L-I-T-E water. That's where people can order it. It's expensive. I'm going to get very expensive if that's the only water you drink. So I don't think that that's practical for most people. If you had cancer, though, that would be something that's very high on the list of what I would recommend and do. I would try to get your deuterium level as low as possible. What do you think about hydrogenated water? Is it a gimmick? Is it real? It's a gimmick. I think that better is hydrogenated gas, you breathe. Okay. Yeah. And so different devices make different things. The problem with water is complicated, right? So I think that the hydrogen water is not going to move the needle much, right? This is even like, we saw this with alkaline water, right? People say if it's alkaline, is it alkalizing, meaning does it make your water, we're talking about pH scale, right? And they're talking about acid and alkaline. And people thought, well, if I drink more alkaline water, I'll become more alkaline because cancer roads in it. and acid environment. That's not totally true. Same thing with hydrogen rich water. One of the things I've got for our new office though is we're gonna have a hydrogen generator. So while people are doing IVs and stuff for different treatments, they're gonna be breathing in hydrogen gas. 'Cause I think that makes more sense. - Okay. - Complicated, lots of different tools here. - Sounds like it. - I know, I know. - You know, you, just a little earlier, you would mention people coming in with 40, 50 supplements, taking 40, 50 supplements. And that we don't need that, but we're also talking about all the nutrition that's been depleted out of the fruits and vegetables. So how are we supposed to replace that if we're not doing all these supplements? - So we like to test, right? And so again, if people need it, I'm not against it. I'm in favor of whatever works. I just think that the paradigm, and I get it, people listen to a podcast, and then they buy three things based on it, and they add, and they're never subtracting. And so their medicine cabinet grows to these, now they're just taking it, and they don't know why they're taking it. So if you're taking it for a particular reason, great, right? You have a goal, great. But most people aren't, they've gotten over the goal, right? Whether they're tired, whether they're low mood, whether they wanna lose weight, they have pain. I'm not saying don't take the supplements. I think because you're right, they can be valuable tools. But if you're just taking blindly, you just added and you've amassed now all these supplements, you don't even know what they're doing, just because they're natural and safe doesn't make them affected by any means. And so I'm a big favor of doing this for the long term, you know, making it reasonable for people. And I think there's some things that we should focus on. And then again, my view, lens of the world is, it's not destination-based, it's directional change, meaning, oh, now you've sprained your knee. Now you've, you know, now we gotta work on the knee. Now you wanna be a better golfer. Now we gotta work on that. Now you have a test coming up your student, you wanna be a better focuser. There's lots of things we can do in a goal-directed manner, which are great. But then once you get to the goal, I think you probably back off them, you know, you don't need to keep amassing them. And that's what people tend to do. That's just my observation. - Was there anything left on the mitochondria when you did cover? - mitochondria, yeah, I mean, the mitochondria, so for me, I tie in the mitochondria, I think of, again, simplification just helps me of energy, right? I think what most people are looking for is energy. And I talk to people, what is the number one thing they want, more energy, right? People are tired now, people are stressed out, people wake up, they don't feel good, they have to caffeinate, stimulate. People get a second wins, now they don't sleep. People can't turn on the energy. I think of like a little child, right? They can turn off and on that energy when that will. I think that's the goal, right? It's not just having energy, it's having energy when you want it, when you need it. And I think it's fascinating. And so, to me, there's seven different energy circuits essentially, right? The mitochondria are one of them. We can talk about the others, but the mitochondria are powerful and it's like the cellular circuitry. And it's very real for people when we give them mitochondrial enhancing nutrients like NAD, like methylene blue, like coq10 and watch what happens. I'm a strict clinician, I'm not an academic and I have the fortune of being able to observe people who do these therapies and take these certain nutrients. And it's a game changer for a lot of them, you know? We've talked about before, you know, you had Pete Scabell on, right? Great, amazing podcast, amazing, great American. I got to know Pete like a decade ago and he stands out in my mind. When I got to know him, he was complaining that he couldn't read his eyes would go all over the place. Chronic daily headaches and he was depressed. And he'd been through the VA system left and right upside down, they weren't helping him. You're more familiar with this than I am. Working with a lot of veterans. And so, he was living in Aspen at the time, went out to Aspen and we gave him NAD, IV. And again, this is like 2016, this before it was any bit popular. After two treatments, Pete's symptoms were gone. After two treatments, yeah. Wow. And maybe you talked to him about it. He'd still say it was an impactful part of his life. And I still work with Pete. And that is indicative of how other people respond to NAD. And that's when the mitochondria has been damaged. You know, he told me he was blown up 50 plus time. He had 50 plus traumatic brain injuries, right? NAD works first, you know, on the nervous system. And if your nervous system's in disarray and been harmed by lasts, we get energy into that nervous system, it can start to heal. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, the mitochondria is very well studied from an academic perspective. I think it's part of how people, you know, whether it's taking NAD or these NAD precursors, I find NAD itself to be the best. Again, that's just my experience overseeing tons and tons and tons and tons of NAD treatments. Now we have methylene blue. And then there are certain mitochondrial nutrients. What are the three keys? The three keys, so this is what I think of as like, the three paradoxes, right? That this is just my take on it from working with people and fascinated with human health and progress. The first is energy comes from rest. That's number one. And I think, you know, we live in a time where people beat themselves up, you know, workouts become mature. We have to put our foot on the gas more and more and more. And people don't value downtime and recovery time. So that's the first. The second is symptoms are signals. The conventional medicine, modern medicine says, if you've got this something's wrong, I'd look at it and say, actually, that's your body healing. Right, you've got knee pain, you got a headache, you got fatigue, you're out of alignment. So we need to honor those signals and understand them. I suppose to give you band aids. I mean, band aids are appropriate every now and then. Let's figure it out to get to the root cause. The last is strength comes from coherence, right? And the way I think about this, I just read this, I didn't come up with this. If you were to hold water in your hand and you squeeze it, what happens goes between your fingers? What happens if you hold it with your open palm? It stays, right? So we become more still and more coherent. Think about your body. Like we already talked about waters, the most dominant substance in the body. If you're squeezing in tight and understress all the time, you're not very fluid. If you're not very fluid, you know, and you know this better than I from your training, like working with people, it's not just about having big biceps. It's about how can you be coherent? So those, I think, are the three keys. Let's take a quick break. With summer travel, even learning a few real phrases can completely change the experience. You're not just pointing at a menu or hoping someone speaks English. You can order food, ask for directions, and actually connect with people a little more when you're there. That's why I like Babel. Me and the team have been using it for travel because it's built for real life conversations, not just memorizing random vocabulary or staring at grammar charts. The lessons are quick, practical, and built by more than 200 language experts. So your learning phrases you'll actually use. And even just 10 minutes a day with Babel can help you start having real conversations in as little as three weeks. They've got interactive dialogue, personalized reviews, and even podcasts. So you can work it into your day whether you're traveling, driving, or just trying to get a few minutes in before bed. Babel's award-winning app is sold over 25 million subscriptions and it's backed by a 14-day money-back guarantee. If you've got summer travel coming up, now's the time to start, so you can actually use what you learn on the trip. Right now, Babel is offering listeners up to 60% off. Go to babel.com/srs. That's babel-ba-b-e-l.com/srs for up to 60% off. Rules and restrictions may apply. The internet wasn't built with your privacy in mind, but Glacier was open the app, tap connect, done, you're protected. Remember, privacy isn't paranoia. It's protection. Take your privacy back. Download Glacier today. - All right, Doc, we're back from the break. So I just went and looked up the light water. - Expensive, right? - Yeah. - Yep. - But I ordered it. - But-- - It's worth trying. - It is expensive. - It is expensive, but like we were just saying it. I think it tastes like the cleanest water you've ever had. - Wow. - Yeah, I mean, there's something too. It's expensive water, but I'd like people to try stuff. I think that it's, you just don't know what'll click. - Do they expect people to drink this all the time? - Again, it depends, right? So like we were talking about in the context of you've got active cancer. I don't know of another way. What they say is a higher saturated fat diet has the least amount of deuterium, but I think that takes a while, right? So if you've got, and the guys I know who started the company, one's name, Robert the other's Victor. They would say if you've got active cancer you don't necessarily want to lower it too quickly because you could have a Tumor crisis is what's called like a tumor if it it can kind of lice and I'm gonna say explode the implode and and that can cause some problems you can get blood quads things like that So you want to do it in a gradual way, but the idea is if you've got cancer. I Don't know of a more practical thing one can do than to lower their nutrition Wow knowing what I know I mean there's lots of protocols supplements people talking about baking soda green tea extract I mean on and on and on removing toxicity stopped using a microwave You know only using stainless steel or glass to cook things like that to remove toxicity and talking about very basic stuff They need to be teaching this shit in school But I went down that I just watched this Documentary I'm actually gonna try to get this woman on okay, and she was talking about the fertility crisis because of the micro Plastics if you've seen this I haven't seen it, but I you know, it's be it's interesting topic because it's become normal For couples to jump right into in vitro fertilization. This is all new. That's kind yet. That's what it's all new She brought on I know it's a small sample size and she says that in the documentary, but She brings on I believe that six couples We're trying to get pregnant young couples One of them had been trying to get pregnant for 10 years And she brings these people in and I mean, I'm not a doctor. I don't know the test, but she tests them. Yeah, I'll just to see She tests the sperm count and each one of the males and then she tests the I don't know the microplastics. Yeah, and I guess she can test for those How many microplastics each one of them have it and so she She does a test and then they go through and she's there for 90 days And they go through and they just wipe out everybody's, you know What are you wearing? What are you drinking? What do you cook in your food in? What are you buying your food in you know how basically like how what are you drinking your water out of what do you you know all the shit and It's like everything we have everything. Oh is I didn't realize I guess skin Absorbs 40% of everything you put on it. Yeah, I mean it depends. I don't have her different statistics But yeah, anyways, I mean think about she she does this thing for these people, you know And then and then you know, they do like the revamp like all right now you're gonna buy berries from this place do this and that and the other thing I think every one of these couples got pregnant after the 90 days I mean, it's again, you said they should teach us in school, but no, that's not the goal. Sean, you know that cutting boards No, I know everything I know, but the goal is to keep people as customers right keep us Our energies dim so we keep coming back to the trough for more medicines more testing and then more diseases And I and we've normalized it. We've completely normalized chronic disease and Think that this is no, I don't think it's a normal at all. I don't think it's how people lived. I think it's supposed to be vital strong immersed. I always think of like Children who are fastening because children don't know what temperature it is what time it is They are absolutely immersed in what they're doing. You know, you say to a kid come back before dark. They don't know what before dark is You know, but we can't do that as adults We can't be present. Yeah, yeah, I know you're right So I like to live out in the woods. I don't I mean, I think that's such a healthy choice I think it's awesome of you And they've shown I mean you can speed up and go to the technology side of being in the forest in the woods is very healing Just being out in nature is very healing I tell people because I we talked about a little bit earlier about circadian rhythm and kind of how people hand the quarters all in the fastest way I tell people if you want to get your bath self back and sink go camping For three days don't take your phone or leave it in the car whatever. Don't check it And sleep on the earth You will get back and sink Your body knows It's interesting. Yeah, yeah, but we've gotten so disconnected And I'm again, I'm not advocating people want to go do that full-time great I think most of us are looking for mitigation strategies. Yeah, yeah, you know, like how can we have a little bit of both That's fine Let's talk about Protocols. Yeah, start with peptides Perfect Here we go. Yeah, peptides right 2025 became the year of the peptide, you know, I've been fortunate I think you know I don't know the number but I've probably ever seen more peptide treatments than anyone Probably in this country maybe on the planet. I've been in the right place at the right time What I researched you on Anthropics clotted it says you are the godfather of peptides. All right. Well good. Well, so We'll leave it at that, but um I you know to be really on the very very Elemental level peptides or chains of amino acids. We call it a peptide if it's 40 amino acids in length or shorter Called approaching if it's 41 amino acids in length or longer By definitions these are small molecules. They're signaling molecules and I've been super impressed with peptides um because they're very very safe, you know, and to me it always got to be safety first And so I think of them to make a distinction for people I think of peptides is like whispering to yourselves and pharmaceuticals like a sledgehammer Yeah, I think that's just a good analogy and so the sledgehammer is we're going to take the same dose give it to seem everyone We're going to have side effects, but by golly you're going to feel something and peptides are working with your biology You know signaling so there's lots of different categories of peptides There's the growth hormone releasing peptides things like ipamerone testamerone cemeralin and these by and large all the peptides we're talking about are injected So they're injected under the skin in the case of the growth hormone releasing peptides Travel up to the part of the brain that releases growth hormone binds the growth hormone receptor and puts out some growth hormone Well as we know as people get older stress out their bodies we put out less growth hormone Growth hormone is an anabolic hormone like testosterone And it's in charge of helping us mend heal recover rejuvenate ourselves our tissues. That's why it's banned in professional sports Right if you're a Pitcher and you injure elbow you want to be back in two weeks not two months. Well growth hormone will do that And so I still use a lot of growth hormone when appropriate with my patients But we've replaced a lot of that with these peptides Because it gets you most of the way there and it's working with your own biology. It's giving you a push So that's a big category another big category is the anti-inflammatory peptides like BPC 157 That's the one I was talking about earlier. Yeah, the one that you said you think up to Yeah, we have you on a combination of which includes the BPC It's it's I have torn rotator cuff. I don't know what's going on with the other shoulder, but yeah Usually I can't live my shoulder over 98 degrees and I think I was on that for me. I don't know two weeks maybe a month. Yeah and full rotation. Yeah, and that's your experience. So what is it doing? Yeah, it's very anti-inflammatory to the soft tissue So the tendons and ligaments, you know um It's it's comes from again our kind of our stomach juices this this particular peptide stands for body protection compound So your experience is what a lot of people experience with BPC A lot of people experience I had a patient in the office this week Um, and he plays guitar and does a lot of yard work and he messed up his forum And we actually gave him intravenous BPC could be use some of these peptides intravenously And he said he had two treatments. They said I'm 100% better So does it go away? It heals, right? So I think a lot of it with the inflammation is you're getting like we talked about Or you're getting aggregation of inflammatory cells, you know, that sit in the tissue Sit in the extracellular space and they may hit nerves, right? They may cause nerve irritation, which is then sending a signal to your brain pain And what they do is they help facilitate the removal of these inflammatory cytokines and this cascade So that you don't have it aggregated there. So it's actually healing it Now the challenges is for people is once you're healed don't re-insure Right, and people of a hard time is let you know my patients tend to be the peak performers of the world, right? They don't want to take any time off and that's a challenge and I get it and so as we get older We're in this degenerative state, you know, we're very focused on lifting weights and getting strong But we also get tight we get firm what tends to happen to people is firm breaks That's just a reality So I think including peptides you could argue that one who works out a lot should be on BPC 157 You know, and we were talking about Earlier interesting day because the today and tomorrow's the day the FDA is discussing If these peptides will still be allowed to be compounded compounded means made by a pharmacy That's how we do it. We don't use any research chemicals. They're all individually made They're all the best sourcing highest potency. They're all tested analyzed Made by pharmacies who are FDA registered state board, you know, inspected Best of the best we do it all the best way What happened a couple years ago is the FDA removed them They said they can't be compounded anymore. This is why these gray market of peptide took off So people can go online and get their own peptides with no oversight From sources that are, you know, probably contaminated or illegitimate. I'm not saying they're all bad. That's not the way it works But they're we don't have any oversight When they're when we're allowed to use them like hopefully we will be able to you know, then We can't now and hopefully that continues Well, then we can continue to compound them in a very safe manner and that's what what's the argument? They're argument. I do understand it right there argument is that the compound didn't go through the FDA approval process Right, so if we look at drugs pharmaceuticals Lot of money a lot of research following the hoops that the FDA wants you to jump through including safety studies and Certainly, you know testing on people and looking at you know, what goes wrong? What goes right? We don't have that for these compounds. Lots of things aren't but to your buddy FDA Exactly now the challenging part with this is they sit in a gray area because they're most of them are injected Right, if we take something like a nutritional supplement like vitamin C never FDA approved on the counter You can get vitamin C take it as much or as little as you want Well, people would argue will that's because you take it orally like you it's very very safe now what I would argue and I've actually spoken People in the Trump administration about this a little while ago and maybe a year ago is I think we need to evolve Where we are how the FDA works, right my argument to them was What we saw with the COVID vaccine was that the FDA was going to expedite Pushing through a vaccine that was never tested. We know that's true now It was never tested as a big experiment. The testing came after it was released not before Using these mRNA whatever you want to call them That was the testing, right? It wasn't that they were tested beforehand said Oh, they were tested while we used them That's a big problem, but since they're able to do that and now a lot of that's become the norm right these pharmaceutical companies are seeking fast approval process Based on something like the COVID vaccine saying there's such a need and such an urgency People can argue that what I said to them I think there also needs to be a place for compounds to be evaluated which are proven to be very safe I don't think that's happening right again I've just seen again I think that I don't think people at the FDA are out to harmless. I don't think pharmaceutical companies are out to harm us But it's a business. That's what it's a man. I think the business. It's pretty much been established. I've been yeah We need a lobbying firm. I Don't know so so my hope is today and tomorrow they meet and they say hey Seem safe. We're not hearing of you know adverse reactions, which there aren't we're not hearing of you know I want to remind people minimal minimal 7,000 deaths a year from Medicines, that's just the lowest number possible At least 200,000 Adverse reactions that are reported a year from just medicines being prescribed. These are big numbers. So This happens every day with a pharmaceutical yet there's so many pharmaceuticals that they're still you know Yet peptides Because they don't fit into this category or that we have to be Can't use I mean there is a narrative out there if it's somebody on the show that I should brought it up that said that I think that the use of peptides will Create an uptick in the and cancer is already true to that I don't think so at all. No, that doesn't resonate with me and I think The the challenge is this is and this is just my observation. We have a lot of people reading about what a peptide does and Then from my perspective, I see what it does to people clinically I Am biased. I'm going to be on the clinical side I take care of a lot of people over the years and we're talking 10 plus years of using peptides as a perfect no Has I ever seen cancer development? No, you know, and we're talking big numbers of people now Have I seen blood clots hard? No, none of it. Have I seen a rash from an injection? Sure Have I seen it not work? Sure, and I know what they're talking about with BPC causing angiogenesis But that's where you develop new blood vessels for cancer to say oh well the cancer which is Now developing new blood vessel has a blood supply so it's going to feed on its own right and the BPC could be making that worse That's one theoretical to I could argue that's a really healthy thing with heart disease Right and this happens already naturally if someone's got an artery that's feeding their heart muscle and it's becoming full of plaque The body is intelligent enough to make new blood vessels to fulfill where those you know those tissues need to be supplied by accident That's angiogenesis, too You see what I'm saying? So I don't know right and so some people would come at this like we've been talking about and say well We need to do longitudinal studying. That's probably a good thing, right, but you have to do it clinically and the trouble with doing clinically We've touched upon this Unless we're doing some sort of live real-time analysis. How do we really know right and it gets tricky and it's hard to do and it's And it's harder to do than I think we've been led to believe I'm all in favor of learning But I'm not in favor of dismissing anecdotal data As BS because it's doesn't count because it wasn't done by a proper study I'm just not because my experience is the anecdotal data Data is super valuable. I'm interested in people sitting in front of me What what are some other things that you would use peptides for? So there's peptides for inflammation, right? So BPC157 Tb500 they have these weird names KPV GHK-CU which is GHK copper all of these are very anti-inflammatory, right? So they're promoting Anti-inflammatory mechanism is not pro-inflammatory mechanism. There's peptides for the nervous system One called CMAX which was developed in Russia many decades ago to help people have had a stroke people have had a traumatic brain injury CMAX and it's cousin Selank Selank taps into the GABA system, which is our calming system That's the same receptors that alcohol and benzos tap into. Well, Selank is very calming for some people In fact the combination of CMAX and Selank is like a natural adorol And so we make that into a nasal spray I have a lot of patients who try that because you know, I like the nasal spray because it's kind of a quick hit to the nervous system And they can redose it. I'm not gonna say it's perfect and certainly not for everybody But you know, one of my problems with mainstream medicine is that a lot of doctors act like gatekeepers like no, you can't do it Why should it be up to them? Like if it's safe? Why can't the patient try? I'm a big believer let people try and explore as long as we're doing it safely and from my perspective, I have more experience with stuff than most We're gonna start there, right? We're gonna start as a reference point I only want you to try it if it's safe. We're never gonna recommend things that are out of bounds ever And I recognize that doctors don't know either, right? We train a lot of doctors They're interested in learning, but to your point we need to teach this stuff. It's not coming from conventional medical education That's not part of their model So I want to help these providers these physicians learn how to use these tools If Shopify had a way to use it, it would be easier to use it. That's how it works and we can help them with Shopify To learn more about Shopify, we need to learn how to use it in a way that's easy to use So other peptides good for the nervous system, C-max, the length, cerebral lysine. We've had great success. It's a cerebral lysine's this neuropeptide. Patients have had a stroke You know my nurse practitioner Her dad had a stroke. He did so well using cerebral lysine Just subcutaneously injecting himself. She said he made such an amazing recovery And she used to work in a kind of stroke rehab center. So she has a lot of experience with it. So cerebral lysine's another one That we can use. There's mitochondrial peptides peptides like MOTC, which I think it was the stronger fit or faster peptide helps with body composition and energy humanin, which is like the DNA repair peptide one called SS-31 Which we talked about the mitochondria. We talked about where methylene blue binds on that fourth Hubble That's where SS-31 binds to help keep the shape and architecture of the mitochondria intact So again, it's challenging a lot of different peptides How do we know what to use? Well, the way I do it is I want to understand patients' motivation, understand their story, understand their goals And then we start and then I want feedback. How's it working? Are you experienced like with you? My shoulders feeling better. We're on the right track. I have more energy. I'm sleeping better. There's peptides for circadian rhythm, one called epitalin. There's one called pinealon, which helps us release more melatonin. I could go on and on, but I think you get the gist. What other type of protocols? Hormones are a big deal. I think understanding we touched upon this a little bit. As people age, I think the most tangible thing that happens is that they're hormones decline. There's a lot of hormones. Hormones by definition are just messenger molecules. We have adrenal hormones, cortisol, DHA, prognolone. There's thyroid hormone, which works with metabolism. There's insulin is signaling hormone to help get glucose utilized. There's growth hormone, which is an anabolic hormone, testosterone. Another anabolic hormone, probably the biggest deal for men. There's estrogen or gestorone. You can see there's a lot. What we like to do is understand someone's where they are. If clinically and in the lab, they're low or they're exhibiting signs of deficiencies, we may consider replacing those deficiencies with bio-identical hormones. For men, testosterone is the first and obvious place to look. Most men don't realize that low testosterone in a man is the number one risk factor for heart disease, stroke, depression, and dementia. Is it really? Yeah, it's a big deal. Big deal. As well as if you look at the studies, clinical studies, men who replace their testosterone report a higher quality of life across the board. Again, the goal is not to manipulate. The goal is not to make your arms as big as your legs unless you are bodybuilder. You want to do that. We never want to manipulate the hormones. We want to help you get back and we want to trial taking this hormone or those hormones and see how you feel. See how you respond. For most people, it's a very positive experience. The goal is never to make someone younger. I think that's a silly, silly goal. The goal is to help people feel their best so they can perform their best at any age. What level T should somebody have? Are we shooting for its relative? We had it when we were 21. Some people say that. Here's how I look at it. You go to the regular doctor and it's like, "Oh, you're great for your age." Let's talk about that. I agree. Let's talk about where do reference ranges come from? Reference ranges come from what's in the population. As we've talked about, the majority of people in the population were talking about adults, overweight, tired, depressed, and taking at this point multiple pharmaceuticals. Being in that range is mediocre. I don't want anyone to be mediocre. Life's too short to be mediocre. When we're looking at the ranges, we want it to be on the upper end of the range. It doesn't mean, for example, testosterone range, most labs, normal is going to be somewhere between 200 and we'll say 1,500. Some labs, it's more, some labs, it's less. It doesn't mean you have to be 1,500 to feel your best. By no means. Again, it's exploration. Everyone has different stories that they tell, that stories they experience, life that they live. If we do a trial of testosterone, over time we find, "Hey, I'm feeling great." We draw their blood and it's 800? Great. It doesn't mean we have to shoot for the moon. It certainly doesn't mean we want to manipulate it and get superficial logic. Because any kind of thing you do, the body is going to be other things that affects. When men take more testosterone, they're going to make more estrogen. Sometimes that's good. If they're making too much estrogen, they feel bloated, swollen. They gain water weight. They get really emotional. Some of these hormones, I think of them like kids on a playground. Some of them like testosterone, they're a fun, happy kid. Everyone wants more testosterone. Other hormones like cortisol, stress hormones like the big bad bully. Too much cortisol, too little cortisol, has a negative impact on other hormones. In terms of testosterone, because this is a great question. If we start and someone is low, I just want them to be higher associated with how they feel. Now, does that mean that if we measure and they say, "Hey, I think I could sleep better that we can't try going a little higher? Sure. If it's appropriate." But I think there's an interesting book that's called The Trouble with Testosterone. It was written by this guy. He's a sociologist at Stanford called his name's Robert Sapolsky. And he studies baboons in the wild. He also wrote another book called Why Zebras Don't Get Olsers. Fascinating guy, that talks about stress. But the trouble with testosterone to summarize is he found that in the baboon population, you have the alpha male with the highest level of testosterone. And then you have the number five in the pecking order with the lowest level of testosterone. Both of those had the shortest lifespan. Number one, number five had the shortest lifespan. The longest lifespan was number three, right in the middle. And his theory was, if you're number one, you're always trying to stay number one. That's very stressful. If you're number five, you're always trying to get to the top. If you're number three, you're good, but you don't have to be too good. And I think that applies to. I don't think that applies to a lot of things in life. So, to answer your question, I just want people to be closer to the top, but based on how they feel. And more stuff we use, the more side effects we're going to have. So, hormones, I think talking about protocols, they're foundational, right? For a female, it's thyroid hormone. It used to be progesterone, it's a thyroid hormone. Low thyroid and women's become an epidemic. Most women, if they're 40s and 50s, are going to have some thyroid problems. Not a past semester, just a realist. What do you think about GLP1? Great question. I think bi and large are a great tool. And I've seen this, right? I think we've been using semi-glutiteers hepatitis for almost six years now, maybe seven years. And I think they work. If I am looking at a weight loss tool, I think it's the most reliable right now. Now, I think you have to use it judiciously. I think that helping people start at a low dose, take their time, go slowly. There's never urgency to me to lose weight. I hear from people, I need to lose weight in a month. I remember, some of these supermodels I work with, "Hey, I'm doing a shoot in two weeks. Can we get any season?" Yeah, like, can we get it? We've got to have good expectations. But for most people, the vast majority of us, there's no urgency, right? We want to take our time. And the way they work is they are, it's a signaling molecule. So it's slowing down gastric emptying. So your food, as it goes through your stomach and your digestive tract is going to be slowed down. So you're going to feel full faster. As you feel full faster, you're not going to eat as much. You don't eat as much, you're going to lose weight. But you're going to do so when you're not going to feel cranky. I think they can be very effective that way. I really do. And by and large, if we use them judiciously and take our time, we really don't see a lot of side effects. The trouble seemingly that we have now, and it's not really trouble is people don't want to come off of them. And so people want to stay on them because they're like, "I'm afraid I'm going to lose the weight back." And I understand that. And again, I think if we're using low dose and we're checking in and we're monitoring, we're probably good. What I'm starting to see is that higher dose, whatever that is, but higher dose, people are experiencing anhydonia. They're coming back and they don't find pleasure anymore. They don't enjoy sex. They don't want to drink coffee. Tequila doesn't taste good. They're just not as satisfied. And so I think it's showing that it doesn't just work on the food pathways, it's working on pleasure pathways. And it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. But as a tool, I think they can be very effective. We've also learned that a lot of people with autoimmune disease and chronic inflammation can benefit from low dose TLP ones. So I'm a fan of used appropriately. We monitor. I do have some people who overshoot. I had a patient just a couple months ago. I just call her out and said, "Hey, I think this is you're going too far too fast. You're not looking healthy. You've lost weight. I get it, but we've got to dial that back." And she appreciated it. Like everything, because there's always going to be bad apples too. Yeah. What about ozone? Ozone is interesting. I mean, ozone, which is technically O3 and kind of falls in this category of like oxygen therapies. Traditionally, it's been used for many decades, primarily for wound healing. And so the idea, and it still is, because the more we need to heal a wound, we need more oxygen in that environment. This is why hyperbaric oxygen in the setting of wound healing is very powerful. Very powerful. My wife just had this complicated nose surgery. And the surgeon, as part of the recovery, have to go into hyperbaric oxygen after the treatments for days upon days. Because he found that after having a surgery, you can accelerate the healing. And she's found that. She's really enjoyed the hyperbaric oxygen. And that, you know, the trouble with oxygen, not to get too far off the path is to get oxygen into our system. This is what happens with CPAP. We have to pressurize it, right? So the idea with people having sleep apnea, if they have a decreased airway and they're not getting enough oxygen to their brain, you can't just have them breathe in oxygen. They won't get more oxygen into their system. So you have to pressurize it. So then we have these devices that sit on the side of the bed. There's no one likes, but it allows for more oxygen to get to the brain so they don't have apnic events where they're blood, you know, oxygen is dropping too low. Ozone tying it back in is another one of these therapies that helps oxygenate our tissues. And so what we do in our office is there's different ways to do ozone is we'll start an IV. And then we'll draw the blood out into a bag. It's a pump system. So it draws the blood out into a bag. We take oxygen gas. We turn it into ozone, which is O3s. We're taking O2 to O3, putting that in the blood, mixing it. And then we're turning the bag over and running that blood back in. We run it through a UV light to essentially clean it. And we're kind of oxygenating their system. Now, industrially, ozone gas is used to clean out use cars. It has a disinfected effect. So we think of that happening in the body. So we've seen it with people who have chronic-- not necessarily chronic, but things going in their gut or post-viral, where they're coming down with an infection. They have a bacterial infection, a viral infection, yeast infection. You can use ozone successfully to help clean out that system. And then allows them to their own innate immune system to strengthen and work. So I think it works well for that, but it also works as an oxygenator, which just helps people have more energy. How often should somebody be doing that? It's variable. I think it depends on what they're working on. If just from a pure-- preventive, I want to be my best. I want people to try it. If they feel good from it, maybe once a month. I don't necessarily think more than that. Maybe once every couple months. If they're working on stuff, we've had people who, whether it's post-COVID or some other viral thing they're doing it twice a week. So it just depends. Twice a week. Wow. Yeah. It's very safe. And again, it has a long history. Have you seen these-- I can't remember what they call it. I think I know what you're talking about. People have the bags of yellow. It looks like they've pissed in a bag. Yeah. What is that? Plasma frisus. Yeah. So what they're doing is like dialysis, right? And so the idea is we're going to clean the blood really, really well. And so their plasma exchange is basically what it is. So they're drawing their blood out. They're separating the components. The plasma or serum is the fluid. They take the red blood cells out. And then they run it through filters or something. And then they run it back in. And the stuff that they're holding is kind of what they call the debris. Now, I think it's more hype than anything. And the reason I say that is I've known several people to do this treatment. And they're like, eh. Didn't notice much. The other thing I think about-- maybe I'm thinking the wrong way. I don't know-- is dialysis-- they don't get better. If someone has chronic kidney disease and they're on dialysis, that doesn't get better because they're doing dialysis. Dialysis is filtering their blood so they can remain alive, essentially. So I think it's a bit of a stretch to say we're just going to clean your blood and you're going to be even healthier. I'm not saying it's bad, but it tends to be very expensive. And I've heard it's very uncomfortable. So when I try to evaluate therapies, I don't want to do things that are hurting people, per se. And there has to be some efficacy. In fact, a lot of efficacy. So you're kind of on the fence about those-- I'm not on the fence. I don't recommend it. You don't recommend it. Not plasma for recess. No. I don't recommend it at all. I looked into offering it in the training. And the training was exorbitantly expensive. The business model didn't make sense to me. And people-- you need to charge people. I mean, I think people are paying 15,000, 20,000 per day. Oh, I loved it. Per session. Yeah, per one. I don't-- I can't make sense of that. I have a hard time understanding that. Particularly when people tell me directly multiple people, did it-- didn't notice anything. You're going to spend that much money. I would hope you noticed something. Same thing with peptides, a little bit off time. If you're injecting yourself with something on a regular basis, I hope you're feeling it. I don't want it to be that people are just injecting. Well, I think it's working. I want you to feel it. So I'm not a phantom plasma for recess. I understand why people would do it. Again, it's all contextual. If someone had cancer, if someone had some grave disease, why not? Again, why not try everything? But I want to go back to the light plasma. Say that again. Light plasma. PEMF. Light plasma. Yeah, the PEMF with the magnetic therapy. So what is that doing? I'm not-- this is not my subject matter. The way I think about what has been explained to me were electrical beings, right? And so electricity is kind of how we had electricity before we had chemicals. Meaning there was charge potential. There was voltage. We know that, for example, or mitochondria or our cells maintain a voltage to exchange ions or exchange different minerals to allow say other processes to continue. Gross oversimplification. That electricity also creates a magnetic current. And that magnetic current can get incoherent. And what the PEMF does is essentially lines up-- people are familiar with magnetic therapy, right? Two things were pale and then you put positive minus and you get attraction. We're trying to get our cells lined up so there's coherence again. So why would someone want to do that? Well, a lot of people are living with pain, inflammation. You know, my wife's got a lot of kind of stored up tension, pain in her muscles. And she's done a lot of that PEMF and really finds it to make a difference. And it's non-invasive. And you're looking at 15, 20 minute sessions, sometimes longer. But in the terms of looking at the body, contextually, more holistically, it's more than just chemicals. And so that's why I'm excited about incorporating some of these energy devices from PEMF to hydrogen gas inhalation, vibrational plate. We're also looking at vibroacoustic therapy, which is sound as mechanical therapy, ever interesting. Yeah. So there's this pod. I just trialed, it's called solo dome, S-O-L-O-G-O-M-E. And basically sit in it and there's different frequencies you can apply, different songs. But it's basically helping your cells get tuned. Again, a lot of people say, oh, that's quackery. That's woo-woo. I don't think so. Our physical being is both mechanical, it's electrical, it's magnetic, it's chemical, it's all of the above. These therapies that are non-invasive-- again, going back to ancient traditions, drumming. Drumming's are, I mean, this says a very profound effect on people. Rhythm, sound, different frequency. It's a big deal. So we're just trying to understand it. How do you create an environment for the humans that arrive, not just be mediocre, and the other protocols? I think for people to do at home is-- there's a lot of talk about HRV therapy, or HRV understanding, right? Heart rate variability. And what that means is like the-- in between the beats of the heart beating, we should have coherence. I've said that word a lot in synchness. It should be in sync. So people are using their loop or their aura ring, or their Apple watch, and trying to get an HRV reading, which ties into their readiness score, their sleep score. And I think that's fine. I think those are probably not the best ways. I think the best way is to get-- like Garmin makes a chest strap called the polar device. You just put it on. There's an app, and you can do HRV testing. And I think it makes sense for people to do this at home when you wake up. In the afternoon, you understand your baseline, and then examine what you do, whether it's behavioral or your things you take, and see how your HRV is affected. The higher the HRV has been associated with better health outcomes. So that's something I think is important for people to consider. OK. Easy, right? Not complicated. You don't have to do it every day. But just try to get a baseline. Understand yourself. I think what's missing for people is a self-awareness. And for better or for worse, people are looking for permission for people to do things. That's become very popular. Listen to that podcast. They said to do that. We'll try it out. See how it works for you. I mean, I'm a big fan of exploring that, and wanting people to explore it. Everyone's different. I commonly hear, particularly peptides, hey, my brother or my cousin was doing this peptide. They're doing amazing. Why aren't I? Well, you're very different than your brother and your cousin. It doesn't mean it can't work for you, but maybe you need a different dose. Maybe you need different dosing. Maybe you need twice a day instead of once a day. That's what we like trying to help people do. It's figure out that individualization. What am I missing? I don't know. I think we've got it. This is awesome. Doc? I just want to say, Sean, you're doing amazing work. You've had an amazing life. God's really chosen you to do some heavy lifting. You're selfless. You sacrifice throughout your life. It means a lot that I get to know you that you invite me to have conversations with your audience. And just want you to know, speaking for the rest of your audience, how grateful we are for someone like you. I know it's not easy. When you do have to sacrifice, and you do have to do heavy lifting, But. can tell you it's noticed and from my vantage point it's very much appreciated thank you thank you thank you for coming thank you for saying that and um hope to see you open an officer in middle Tennessee but I'll keep going to South Carolina the meantime I appreciate it all right doc it was an honor thank you thank you no matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan show from if you get anything out of this at all anything please like comment and subscribe and most importantly share this everywhere you possibly can and if you're feeling extra generous head to apple podcast and Spotify and leave us a review on the dashboard. See you in the next video. Bye bye.