#309: Louise Mahler - What Makes Trump Hypnotic?

Hello legends. Today I catch up with cub member Louise Mowler. She is one of the world's leaders in leadership communication And in today's episode she shares everything you need to know how to communicate effectively confidently and and and communicate as a leader She is trained the the world's most known politicians and global CEOs and she has a PhD in leadership Communication in business. She's truly one of the world experts and it was an absolute pleasure to have her on the show Hope you enjoy I'm gonna catch the listeners up to where we are but basically you've been picking apart my vocal chords Yes, and the way I say words, but but do you just leading into that what is it that you're an expert in I'm an expert in voice Daniel, okay, and a voice and body language is what I'm known for and gravitas and And teaching people how to have gravitas when they communicate that's right And so what were the things that you immediately noticed in me that I was doing that was not creating gravitas Daniel, it's the boys you've got a vocal fry So what you're doing is you're getting a grokey voice like that now. How do you get vocal fry vocal fry happens when you have You have an amount of air you need to make sound and when you keep withdrawing that with drawing that with drawing that Down to one sixth of the air you need the vocal folds malfunction and you get vocal and my voice gets croaked Yeah, now the problem with that there's a problem with that first of all, it's not that healthy second of all It's actually and I love I love the fact that the word inspire comes from the verb sporare to breathe too So to inspire others you've got to get air out of your body into the body of others So if you're holding that air back so badly that you get vocal fry There's a psychological message with that sound that says I don't want to be here. Well, I'm not enthusiastic Yeah, I'm not going to say you want to show passion You need to That's gonna scary but you need to speak loud. Yeah, it's not about loud. You can speak softly with a lot of air Okay, you don't have to do loud, but it's a sign of enthusiasm and passion in doing so I've seen you could you now you've got it Well, I told you that though, but I told you that when I'm outside, I'm resting when I'm inside like in a meeting or a podcast or No, it's not about resting. No, no, I wanted to do it. It's actually a modern thing that the young people tend to think is is sexy so a lot of young women in particular You know one you want. I don't know two coffees. There's a very famous little skit on you know YouTube Instagram of the guy Goes to get coffee in the girl who does a local fry and he mutates it back. It's some it's not relaxation it's just Sahabat yeah, it's a bad habit. I think it is a bad habit that makes people that that makes you seem like you're not Enthusiastic about doing something. I believe so. Yes. I would agree with you. Good. Good. Where's one? Well Okay, well, I'm gonna be on extreme edge this entire episode making sure that I'm speaking with a lot of air A lot of people say I can already tell the difference in my voice in the fact that I'm speaking with a lot of air. Yeah, she just need a good smack That's right and so Like today's episode I really want to Pick your brain and learn from you as to what we can do as leaders is and as business owners typically Listeners of this podcast and members of our of our club and what we can do to communicate better as leaders So where should we start like this? Right. Well, what we're trying to do is get those thoughts out of our brain Out of our mouth and into the ears of other people and to do and for them to remember them Yeah, right sure and to do that I call it gravitas and that's not just my term. It's a term from ancient Rome If you know and there's nothing new on the planet and that means the manner of trust and respect and you go Oh, well, it's a bit like be confident. Have gravitas. What does it mean? Well gravitas actually you can define it It's achieved by what they call the five cannons of rhetoric What do they call them cannons? I don't know their areas five areas of study and do you know what you're talking about? Do you arrange it in a way that people will want to listen to you? Um, do you have the right language? Can you remember what you're going to say? So don't read and then do you have the skills of delivery and the ancients were very very Clear and it's the same with research today. We've proven delivery the fifth one Is the most important and that's your voice your body and really important to your gestures One thing like I can relate to two of those one is like I told you at the start when I do podcast episodes and someone's in Expert and something and I asked them a question like oh, so how does someone do that or go about that And they don't have a very clear like essentially step by step right answer into giving the thing I'm like, well, how can you be an expert in it? If you're not able to actually share how someone could do that thing So like I do think like having the knowledge is is like critical and the one that I do personally I mean, I just discovered my voice one. Yeah, but the one I knew I did Um was when I am when I am in a lower energy state right where I would have the voice The quirky voice and I will take longer to answer questions So like I know the information is there and if I wanted I could just go and say it but I might like pause more and speak slower and and It seems like I don't know the answer that I'm thinking about the answer before I say it But I really do know the answer yeah, and like that was the last one you were saying is like how you deliver it like um, I think it was the whole topic of I find constantly I'm battling myths like I've been doing this for decades I you know, I'd like to say I'm one of the best in the world if not the best in the world at this work And I'm battling myths all the time by people who perhaps don't have the expertise And one of the myths is people will say silence is a great thing Look silence is but very much it's got to be in the right context and because silence will be Read by others as lack of knowledge especially on radio there is no break in the sound And what we do a lot in sentences is we put silence in the middle of sentences. We're just terrible So we get into the middle of a Sentence and puts silence in the middle of it all of this breeds disrespect lack of trust Keeping the air flowing is actually a force of trust. I agree with that flow is so important I put it to you that you were saying in low energy moments that it comes out quickly I'm saying that vocal fry is caused by lack of oxygen lack of air coming out of your body lack of oxygen actually has a big effect on your brain as well And when we completely hold our breath in stressful situations many people experience this when they present We get in front of people. We don't realize that our diaphragm alums jam and Uh, we have nowhere and suddenly your brain won't work because the brain needs oxygen Definitely, but at the same time I do think you can turn it on like I know I do right like I know like we'll just Yeah, uh after this I'll be interviewing John Howard. I know How I am um, I know how I am in those days like I know before I walk in and do the interview My friend of people I know I will be um like quieter and gentler and like my energy is lower But I know the second I'm walking I know what I have to do in order to like Win people over because there will be people that you were talking front of Like and so definitely the oxygen comes you know, it may not be conscious like I need the oxygen It's just like I know what I need to do. I need to get bigger. Yeah, you go and you listen more Yeah, and then the ability to change state is really important performance skill And I'd have to say John Howard how fascinating John Howard I think possibly Was the man least likely to succeed in this area and and he did and why I analyzed John Howard He actually does some fantastic things John Howard won't break his sentence the air in the middle of a sentence John Howard will maintain eye contact you watch he is fantastic There's one interview I often play to people and it's 15 minutes of John Howard handling really difficult questions He does not move his eyes once, but of course he doesn't look like he's staring He blinks he has a lot of skills that people don't recognize. Yeah, it's it's um It's powerful being able to do that like yeah, it's it and so you're saying is is it something that comes natural No, I forget that so it is completely a learned skill Yeah, and so he would have just learned that from I mean it was a prime minister for almost 12 years but but Even in the lead up to that thrall is political roles. He's had and things like that Well, you say he would have learned that and likely been trained by Someone like yourself, but less good Well, I coach politician state federal Have done and do do it the moment uh and You know, you say you pick it up that practice makes perfect not doesn't actually the right practice makes perfect And so often we're imitating those around us and there are so few examples of excellence out there if I'm honest Um, it's in what regard oh in their delivery in the way they're using I'll communicate communicator. Yeah, well it's communication. It's the way you use a voice. It's the way you hold your body, people are leaning forward, throwing their head, jamming their head into their neck. You know, these are very aggressive tactics. We're not using our arms. We've gone stiff. We're holding our breath. Our eyes stare or they dart off. These are all shocking mannerisms of mistrust. Now, do we need to learn them or is it unlearning bad habits? We're probably a combination of both. Well, we're born doing it correctly. Like, right now, you'd argue. I would argue. Right now, like, I know that I mean a, I know that I'm in a non-inspiring pose. Like, right now I'm in a, yeah, and I'm tight. I'm keeping my body, like, I'm, I'm, I'm smaller than I, like, than I would otherwise be. Whereas when I was talking before, I started, my arms were wide open. And this does feel a lot more inviting, like, even me just sitting like this, like, it's more than just, it's more than just small and big. It's actually, when your arms are across where they are, I'm around above your waist. That's actually where you diaphragm is, which means that you're blocking your breath. Dive ram is critical for breath. It's got to move up and down. And when we fold our arms, yes, it looks defensive, but that's not much of a motivation for change. We'll go, oh, well, I'm comfortable. So I'm doing it, but actually I've put it to you that the motivation for change is you can't breathe with your arms folded. So it's a discipline. Nobody wants to open their body. It's very vulnerable position, but, you know, get used to it. So if you really instruct me how to sit right now, where would my hands go? My hands aren't on my body. They're on the table, but they are crossed. You are leaning on the table as well. Yes. And I put it to you that that doesn't give you enough power in your sound. So I should sit back more. Well, yes. And that sounds better. I'd say sit back. Your power is in your lower body. And this is people get people saying, "Leaning forward is caring." Well, I'll tell you what, I've never seen a barma lean forward once. What leaning forward is aggression, subservience. It's one of the other extreme. It's not a great thing to do in producing sound. And it's definitely not a position of power. The person that leans forward is the person that's listening or like is the understudy. The person that's confident and in control is the person sitting back and sitting almost wider. Like right now I feel a little more powerful. Not that I need to be, but, you know, I feel like I'm in a more confident position. And I feel happy looking at you too. But it's much more welcoming. Yeah. Much more welcome. Completely, completely. So let's get back to the, so I was asking you what are the things, like, where we should start in terms of teaching people how to communicate better. Obviously, having oxygen in your breath and air in your lungs when you speak was the first, you said, literally instructing me how I should be sitting now is another one. It's how your body is positioned. And I have to say, then you're just as you're using your arms. Because now I'm not folding forwards. Which is fantastic. So you're not communicating with your head. Heads don't communicate. It's stupid. So what we need to do though, to make change is actually frightening to do is know what your set of habits are. So what do you do with your body, what do you do with your breath? What do you do with your voice? What do you do with your hands? What are your normal patterns? Then we have to question those and say, is that the best? Not just for other people, understanding you, but for you, even from a health perspective, and bringing your best to every engagement. So what could you be doing with your body, your hands, your voice, your breath? And also the arrangement of your words, the way that you speak. So, and as I say that, I'm thinking, oh God, Louise, are you thinking of any arrangement as you're speaking? No, I'm just rambling. But they're the, what do you mean by the arrangement of your words? All right. So really when we get into stressful situations, we think that we like doing this interview. You think that I would just ramble on and that that will be interesting to people. And it's not. It becomes very masturbatory might I say. We're often talking to ourselves and trying to convince ourselves that we're fabulous. And it's not getting through. So there are frameworks that are worked out. And how to answer a question is often to make a statement, back it up with three points and then repeat the statement and understress that works fabulously. So to say something like, there are ways. And then to say there's a change plan, it's understanding where you are, understanding where you need to be and making the change. So there are ways. Did you follow that? It was a pattern of statement, three backup points statement. Do you want monthly invites to some of the best business events in Australia? I'm talking rooms full of leading entrepreneurs, the ability to connect and learn from the best of the best. Subscribe to Cub for free. And you'll be first in line for what's coming up. You'll also unlock the full recording of Mark Bruce's private cub interview where he breaks down the Australian economy, interest rates housing and how to make smart moves in uncertain times. Plus you'll receive our power lessons teaching with lessons from all of Australia's leading Aussie entrepreneurs that you can apply straight away. You can now subscribe for free at cub.club/subscribe. See you there. And so that's how you would train a politician to answer a question. Yes. And let's talk about responding to difficulty. Because this is the framework we've all forgotten. And the framework, there's been an example today in the news where the leader of the Labor Party in Victoria was asked about potholes, which are considered one of the major thing by constituents to be a problem. And he said, I don't run main roads, which was very akin to Morrison saying, I don't hold the hose. And this is not the way to handle difficulty. The way to handle it is actually to have a three-step process on nature imperfect and everything in threes is perfect. To acknowledge and say, look, it's a very stressful situation worrying then to repeat back the concern of people. People are concerned about potholes because of the dangers that it brings to others. And what we need to do, now you go to your answer, is get on to main roads and do something. And just to answer with the defensive, I don't hold the hose or I don't run main roads, is you will find yourself one day in front of the cameras on a very serious topic, losing yourself an election because you handled the response badly. It's also just a sign of bad leadership. Good leadership is ownership over everything. It's all my responsibility. I'm the leader of this state. Therefore, everything happens in this state. I have something to do with saying, no, I have nothing to do with that. It's essentially saying, well, I'm not a good leader of this state. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's it's think, okay, so statement, three points statement again, yes, essentially proving the statement. And people will remember that. And when you do the statement at the end, that passes the ball back to the person who's interviewing you. And basically says, I've finished your turn next question. And is that how politicians would organize their answers for interviews? So for example, you would train a politician to say, here are the potential questions that you're going to be asked, here are the statements and the points that you're going to say after each of those questions. And so it's essentially just a memory exercise. And so it's an information arrangement exercise that you then execute with that framework. Okay. Great. Absolutely spot on. And you mentioned the word memory. You see having a framework is one of the keys to memory because you don't have to remember things. You just have to run through the framework in your mind. And then you can put say those three points. You could put them in an alphabetical order. You could put them make to turn them into an acronym. You could give them a place in space around you and then grab before them. These are the memory skills that we've forgotten. People think you need to learn things off by art. No, no, that's cruelty to dumb animals. And so it is the way you would train a politician different to how you would train a business owner or executive or CEO, whereas is communication essentially the same. Communication's the same all over the shop. We also have to realize that there's flexibility. And there's a time when you might go, look, bugger it. I'm just going to ramble. I'm all bugger it. I'm just going to go, no, you know, there's a place for variation. So there are things that politicians can't answer. And sometimes they will just go, you know, no, put it off to the side. I'm not going to answer that question today, which is better than having some an answer like whatever that come everybody's name, the new Victorian primaries. But better than just having a stupid answer basically, better than having none at all. Well, better than, you know, coconuts. So public speaking is pretty much, I mean, they say public speaking is one of the things human beings are most scared of. Yes. And all of these tools are obviously excellent for someone to remember when doing public speaking, whether it be in front of your small team of five to 30 staff or whether it be in front of 100 people at some event. And you're walking on stage, what are the things that you would recommend people remember when they when they are public speaking? Well, everybody reaches the point where they can't get away with it anymore and they have to do it. And then they'll say to me, oh, oh, I didn't get time to repair. And I'll say, guess what? As a leader, you don't. get time to prepare. So you have to have your system and the system walking on stage is I have performance anxiety. So many people out there have performance anxiety. It's all back to school, you know. And so I have a ritual to prepare and that ritual will be of mind and I don't want my unconscious mind telling me how lousy I am. So I have a ritual where I would just repeat a mantra and that mantra is different forever. I'm for me, it is I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, and I just repeat that looking into people's eyes in the audience, obviously not out loud. I'm saying it to myself. I will then make sure that my diaphragm is not jammed and I have a technique called couple party for that which is to blow air up quickly with the stomach going in. I walk which gives me power in the lower body. I'll open my arms and I'll call out to people so I'll say, are you going in? Yeah, are you as everyone going in now? I'll just say anything really because my unconscious mind will say to me, as it does to many, I don't know if your voice will work Louise when you get out there and I'm able to say to my conscious mind, will it just did? Yeah, I also do that. But I sometimes do it for a different reason. Which is, yes, it is getting your voice going so that the first time you speak, it doesn't screw up on you. But the other thing is, when you're talking to a group of people, on stage, I'll be this afternoon, I am separate to those people because I'm on stage, everyone's staring at me and it feels like I can even hear my throat getting tight now, thinking about it. But the second you communicate with them, or you do say, all of a sudden, no, we're one, but together, I'm not out of it. We're one, I can feel comfortable and confident. And the thing that we are learning incorrectly from each other is that everybody's standing up and beginning a presentation saying, I'm so excited to be here. And you let me break it too slowly. Nobody cares how excited you are. So, here's what you need to do. The minute you stand up, you address the people, look at this group, look how many people are here, look how we've got people online, we've got people who travel, we've got people, you know, what have you got here? Did you just meet someone outside? Talk about them, not you. And then it follows with for those who don't know, you know me, I'm Louise Marla, that's the next thing. And that very much, that's the ritual. But what you identified there is, what is communication? Communication is the bouncing of air vibration of people. It's vibration in the air. So when you speak and you get other people to laugh or speak back to you, that is real communication. And you feel it. It's a visceral force. Yeah, you do feel it. Yeah. When they react to something that you said. And that's why laughter is like, laughter would be my typical go-to because it will come naturally to me randomly. And I'll know I'll be able to do something. Well, I put it to you at something natural, it's a learned skill that you've learned. Because when people laugh, their diaphragm jams, which gives you extra bounce of air against people, it feels fabulous. And so you've just learned that's a good thing. And now you do it habitually. And it builds your confidence when you're up there too, because you're like, oh, I made them laugh. So they're obviously listening to what I'm saying. Yeah, once the air is connecting, you're on. Yeah. I find that a lot of people are getting on stage and doing what is a TED talk strategy, which doesn't work for most audiences unless it's a TED talk, which is to come straight out with a controversial statement, something like, my dog died yesterday. And I'll tell you what that does to an audience, if you're not a TED audience, is they go, all right, you know, all right, yeah, sorry, what am I supposed to do about it? I saw it the other day and then someone was trying to connect with the audience straight after a thing. Is that where you feel? And people were just staring at this person blankly because they hadn't built rapport or they hadn't made a connection. And it felt, it feels staged sometimes like, you know, they planned to do that. Really staged. I hated it. And so what would you recommend? I guess you said, speak to the audience, compliment the audience, compliment the audience. And then, you know, state what you're speaking about and then go for your joke, but your joke must lead to a message about why we're here. You can't just do the joke about the man and the dog and then say, anyway, enough about the man and the dog. Let's move on. No, it has to lead the man and the dog joke has to lean back to how we are all connected here or we're all best friends. As an example, yeah, I could get on, so there'll be a hundred members for John Howard. Right. I want to come and I couldn't get a ticket. Well, maybe I can sort you out if you're going to be in Sydney. Yeah, yes, please. People will be very jealous, but that could be my joke. That could cause a lot of longstanding members have been calling us. Like, no, come on, give us a spot where we literally can't, you know, say, but, um, but I could, for example, say something that makes them all feel special, that are in attendance, which is like, guys, the entire national membership base is so, it was fighting to get tickets. So the fact that you're all here, like, we're so proud to have you here and everyone else is jealous or something like that. Like, I do, I do an interaction and just, you know, brain storming bouncing ideas, but I would say, have a look at the person next to you because you have no idea how honored that person is to be here and have a ticket. And the rest of Sydney is out there as jealous as anything. Something like that. Playing on that, it's special that we're in this room. Yeah, that's right. And others wanted to be. Yeah. Fabulous. That perfect, perfect, perfect. Yeah, I'll see how I feel. But I'll figure it out. But, um, and so it told me more than. So, and more about gravitas. So, um, air, stance, um, knowing your information. Are there any other structures like the, the question structure you mentioned? Are there other structures that people can know? Answering an emotional or difficult question, um, giving feedback to change that one. Oh, because these emotional or difficult questions, because these, like, almost every question in every topic these days is emotional development. I know. So how do people best handle that? So we're just saying that for acknowledge reflect and then answer. So the acknowledgements so often people make the mistake, which is to say, I understand you understand nothing. They are illegal words. I understand. Don't do it. Please, anyone out there don't do it. I recently, Mr. Albinese, he says, he does that a lot. He always says, I don't know. And he said, he stood there and he said, with the oil crisis, I understand what truck drivers are going through. And I looked at the TV and I thought, I don't think so much. Um, and I spoke to a truck driver. I said, do you think Mr. Albinese understands what you're going through? You went, no. Um, so never say I understand it. Rookie mistake. The next thing is, so what do you say? Will you say there are choices of three words? It's that's all thank you. So look, it's a tricky situation. That's interesting. Look, thank you for letting me know how you feel. They're options. It's that's all thank you statements. Then here's the step everybody forgets. We reflect back what the person said. So, um, why do we do this? Because this is not a straight answer to a simple question. This is an emotional difficult situation. And finally enough, the brain changes with emotion. And we don't think somebody's heard us unless they repeat it back to us. So we say, and we repeat back two things, the emotion and the content. So we say it sounds like you're very upset about PQ and R, you know, whatever it is. And then and only then we answer. So let me answer or in answer to that or the way I see it or that's what's called a link phrase that takes you to answer. So there's a pattern that you follow. And the sooner we know that pattern, the better it will be for ourselves individually, for our organizations and the nation as a whole. So like business owners will often have a staff member come to them and say something that they're feeling or that they're upset about, which in the business owners eyes is ridiculous. Yes. Because it was just stupid for whatever reason. And so we can utilize that structure you just said, which is essentially, don't say I understand that is how you feel. Say, I said, thank you for bringing that to my attention. And it sounds like you're really upset about whatever it is they're upset about. You know, and now this is a kung fu, because what you're doing so far is going with them, like spinning with their energy. But now you come back and kick them in the head and go, this is rubbish. This is totally unjustified. You know, and you'll get away with something quite harsh if you do catch the wave. Catch the wave. Catch the wave. Once you're on the wave, you can direct it when you want to go. Yes. And what are your thoughts on Ted Talks then? So obviously you don't like those statements. Why do you think Ted Talks are fabulous? Why? Because Ted Talk is a cross between a speech and a presentation. So what's the difference? A speech is where you have something perhaps written. And I'm going to speak this to you. And if you like it or not, I don't care. I'm going to speak it. That's a speech. A presentation is something where you're changing hearts and minds. So it's going to be improvised depending on the audience. And it's going to be funny. There might be different things in their presentation. A Ted is kind of a cross between the two. And what we do is we leave out the rapport and come straight in with what I call the creative link, bang, your controversial statement or joke or question or whatever it is. But it's not improvised. It's scripted like a speech. So it's kind of a cross between a speech and a presentation. You are changing hearts and minds, but it is scripted. - Okay, so it does work for the Ted talk. That's that structure. - It does work for Ted talk. - Yes, and what about politicians wise? Like there's many politicians that, like a Trump, for example, what is Trump doing that maybe not now or when he started or whatever it was, but what was he doing that was communicating well, or better than the more experienced politicians who somehow he kind of got more attention then. - Well, let me start. - Tell me. - So, Trump, do not think that what I say now is any political statement or support of anybody. - Yes. - No, just about the communication is what I hear. - The genius in his hypnotism basically. So, key is that he uses a technique of movement followed by static. He will come out through an entrance and stop. But a lot of us don't do that. We kind of keep, do we talk and walk and, you know, it's sloppy. Then he actually has his arms wide and off his body and his palms facing forward. This is gesture of trust. He even brings his hands in together with his palms facing forward, which is weird as anything. But trust, trust, trust, I have nothing to hide. No pennies in my fingers, nothing at all. Look, palms, trust, trust, trust. And he has his palms forward all the time. And he walks with his arms wide. Like we were saying when you come on first of all, he recognizes people, he'll walk him and down going, yeah, right, pointing into the crowd. Yeah, yeah, I see you. You know, recognizing others, he has all the techniques. The other thing is he speaks in three. So, I mentioned before, Omnitrium Perfectum. Everything in three is as perfect. Three is or five. So, everything in his list. And my favorite thing is when he introduces someone and he knows he has to say three things about them. But he only often has two. And so he'll say, oh, and we're introducing Daniel. Here's part of the team. And Daniel is experienced. Daniel has all the qualifications we need. And he knows he has to say third thing. So very often he'll look at Daniel and say, and he's a good teacher. He has to. Yeah, he does, he does. Just to make up number three. He's so incredible. Yeah. Does he, he has to have been taught these things? Like that's, that is someone I said to him. Yeah, what if you got a mentor, a father, a teacher, a somebody who's done it and you've imitate it? But there are only two types of people who get this right. One is people who've learned it from somebody. And two is psychopaths. Psychopath, yeah. He's very well-be a psychopath. But why psychopaths? Psychopaths read other people and know what works and work it out and do it. Whereas the rest of us are so often oblivious. A lot of people are oblivious to what I call spatial psychology. You know I was Trump. We've seen those videos where he pushes through everyone else to get to the front. He's obsessed with spatial psychology and being in the power position. And I know people who go, oh, was there a power position? I didn't, they're just oblivious in a meeting room where the power is, where the power seat is. It does make a statement though. Like when you are in the power position, like for example, if you're looking at a group of people at lunch and there's eight people and let's say it's a business lunch, whether they be staff and a boss or whatever it is or business owners, you can almost see who is the boss just by looking, like you can identify which one is the dominant. That's right. And obviously they're in the power position. Yeah, I shake hands with people when I meet them and that will tell you a tremendous amount about who's leading the pack and who's not. Yeah, I agree with that. Also though, when you're in, like we were talking about silence before. Yeah, silence can be powerful when you are the powerful one. Because if you are more silent, it makes the other person feel like that they have to talk more and that they have to be like they carry more of the way. Like it is a dominant move, but I know it. I can do it. If you have the positional power, everything changes, you know what that's meaning, you have power. And that's the same with people say the power position is at the end of the table. No, it's not actually. But if you have positional power, yes, it is. But by positional power, you mean they're the boss. They literally are the more powerful. Yes. And what about if you wanted to look more powerful at a table? So let's say you're someone who just wants to attract more. Just look more powerful, position yourself in the community that you're in or the group that you're in as a dominant player. What can you be doing? Yeah, well, I'd be choosing the power position at the table if it's available, which is the middle of the long side and the side facing the door. That's the most powerful position. I would be when I speak, I would be putting myself slightly backwards and then coming in as I speak, doing what I call a Trump, which would be movement followed by static, which says, "Look at me." OK. And then I would open my arms when I speak to create space and just your trust with my palms facing forward when I speak and I'd hold those arms out. And of course, volume, you know. Why does the movement and pause work? Well, it's a technique used in film all the time to attract the eye of the person who's watching. So people said, "Oh, this movement." "Oh, now it's stopped." And now you watch them. It is also a dominant move because it's like, I don't need to keep moving to entertain you. I'm going to pause and you're going to watch me stop. I just walked in and now you're looking at me. That's right. So when you make an entrance into a room, it's a really good move, is to come through the door and pause, which he does. And then walk. Yes. Why don't Australian politicians do more? Like, I feel like if you compare the Australian politicians to the Americans, obviously Trump's a very good communicator. But in general, I'd say the American politicians can communicate a lot better than in Australia. Oh, you're not in general. Massively. Yes, massively. In general, massively. We have a massive, what I call, grubbitus gap in our education in Australia. And we tend to go, ah, I don't want to. I don't want to. It's not important. Oh, yes, it is. I find that some of my clients are people who've say reached the national head of their organization in Australia. And now suddenly they're getting an international position. And they go to America. And they look ridiculous. They struggle. You bet. And suddenly, it's like, what are the rules, Louise? What should I be doing? And oh, God, you know, should have done this years ago. You're not going to contribute to that, though. The fact that Australians don't celebrate success. And Americans love it. They're obsessed with it. And so if you are successful in Australia, you kind of shrink because you don't want to be the successful one. And you want to not be noticed or people judge you or want to bring you down. Whereas in America, you're like a superhero of your success also. Your own style and we don't have to be as over at the top as many Americans. You know, I go into the quandus lounge or whatever and there's Americans in there. And I'm like, we're not going to go up and tell them that he's unsuitable. The way they're yelling. They're so loud. They're so loud. But we can do it in your own style. But here's the reality. He, she, who speaks, wins. And the ancient Romans, I said, everything is nothing new on the planet. The emperors of ancient Rome. They knew that their major objective was to be seen. That was it. Why? Well, because we want to see leaders. We want to see you. We want to feel you, touch you, smell you. See how you respond. Yeah. And I guess back then too, it was very hard to actually see them. So like, they had to put a lot of effort into like, like what the American president used to do when they, what they still do like Trump sees rallies or what's that called when they go to the different, they go to the people in the head. Yeah. And tell them that the world still has some change. You've got to be seen. Walk out, pause. When you speak, open arms, show your palms. You bet. Get the air out. Just know you are now. Connect with the crowd. Look at you. I don't know if this was a good or bad thing that we're having this conversation now. Today, before my interview tonight, because I'm either going to have these things in my mind and be like, okay, I'm going to try this, because I'll enjoy trying it. Wait till I'm standing up the back staring at you. No, it's going to make it worse. I'm going to have to unenright you now. You're so shaking on the control of me. You'll know what I'm doing when I'm standing like. People are like, why is he standing like Trump though? Because it is a very Trump thing. Like, this is Trump. I've never seen anyone do that before. I'm coming in and touching. Yeah, absolutely. I've never seen anyone do that. No, it's weird. But surely, I also think they're just better at politics than we are. And I'm sure so much money and time goes into people like yourself. They must be in conflict. Oh, my God. Every day for every they had to. And you know, when I go in and coach politicians, I'm often seen as a dirty little secret. People don't want to admit that they're doing any work. It's almost like an admission of failure. We should all be doing the work. Yeah, how do you get good at this? How do you get good at something? You don't actually train it. There are results are massive. You know, I work with people to say, nobody listens to me. And next thing you know, they're acting CEO. They're the media representative. They're on an international job. Because of the work. It makes such a difference. And it's not that hard. Yes. Problem is, we work on the wrong things. I was asked the other day up to meet with someone who wanted some coaching. And they said to me, I've had a couple of coaches and it didn't work. [BLANK_AUDIO] them what did you do? And they said, um, meditation. I'm like, or seriously, we're talking about performance. I mean, meditation, fantastic skill, not now, you know, not when you're on stage, then they said, I did a personality analysis. I'm like, what a fabulous thing to do. Not now. Not for speaking, not for speaking. And then I did how to analyze people, other people. I give this brilliant, not now. No, you're small. Um, and what are the big nose? Like what are the big, um, what are the things that are just going to, uh, is, is it tell that you're not going to be captivating when you speak? Sending still. I just want people to move, move, move, and don't wonder, we move pause, move pause or just, yeah, and we have anchored spaces that mean specific things. So we go to one side for something, one side to something else. And, um, and they, they have psychological meaning and we move to these spaces of psychological meaning. We just don't wonder, but we have to move and not only our body, but our hands, our, our gestures. And, you know, the mistakes people make, the two words that drive me bonkers are people say, I try to, but the two things write them words. One is, I take a deep breath. And I'm like, oh, please, no, uh, because if you're diaphragm's jam, taking a deep breath, well, only put tension into your upper body throat head, it's useless. And what do you do? You breathe out. Not in, yeah, breathe out. It's like swimmers before a race, you know, it's a breathing in, um, and why? Because then you can really suck oxygen back in. That's right. It's a diaphragm. Get it moving. It wants to jam. And therefore, you lungs won't work. You've got to get it bouncing. And we do that with an outbreak, not an imbreath, not an imbreath. Um, that will only tense your upper body. Um, which is interesting because the natural talking about is to breathe in. Like that is the natural. Well, it's just a natural to breathe out. No, I know, but more people would breathe in in a stressful environment because you're taught to breathe and breathing the wrong thing for the wrong thing. That's why I'm saying it's interesting. And, and I'm breathing in fantastic. If you're in a yoga class lying on a mat with music and all the lights out, fabulous, but not just as you're going on stage for a very stressful situation, they're two different scenarios, two different techniques. So if I wanted to talk big right now, I go, correct. Okay. So well done like that. Yep. Great. And the other thing that drives me nuts is people say, I try to relax. And I'm like, seriously? What's relaxing? Why are you relaxing? You're about to speak to 500 people. John Howard standing beside you. What's relaxing about that? Nothing. What you're trying to do is energize the right part of the body that can take the stress, which is your lower body, the glutes. You want them working. You want to be sitting on the interview chair. Not, um, why would you be relaxed? Yeah. Or it feels unnatural to be relaxed. I think I think because when you relax too, you look like you don't care. You know, and if you are the host of something or you're in energy state, yeah, that's it's literally the wrong state. Like you're not supposed to be relaxed right now. Why are you? You can be in calm in the sense of, yes, I'm not anxious. And yeah, you don't have to be anxious. No. But, but relax is probably not the right energy state. So how many people say I take a deep breath to relax? You listen, it happens all the time. And I asked people, so what are you doing at the moment? And they go, well, I'm taking a deep breath to relax. And that's when I start up eventulating. And I know that my work begins. What are the, um, when you do keynotes? What are the , what are the topics that you'll do them on? Like, what are your, what are your like, do you have, like, do you have kind of planned written keynotes for different topics? Oh, I'll change it for the, for the, um, you know, whatever the theme is of the conference. So are we trying to be motivated and getting going? Are we needing to communicate key messages and make change? Um, is it about women in business? Because women have particular challenges? What we'll talk about them. And let's get to motivating. So how do you, how do you, uh, present, how do you, uh, communicate motivation? Well, uh, movement followed by static is a great one. And you'll see motivational speakers will often say, and that's why we all, and then turn to the audience, need to eat. You know, and so you turn and you stop and then you slow down and make it short. Um, that's a really classic motivation. A good way to motivate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can make that loud, you know, whatever you want. It just has an impact, have impact. Um, and it's all about not what we can't do, but what we can do. I so often think of Winston Churchill and how, uh, there was, they had bucklies of winning that war, but our clays, and he wasn't to know there was going to be a happy ending. If you call that a happy ending, but he wasn't to know that. And yet he never went out and spoke about misery. It was all we will fight them on the beaches. We will, you know, all those famous speeches that he made. That was a gutsy move given the conditions, which were very bad. Um, but he knew he had to lead the thinking, not grovel in where people's thinking was at the moment. Uh, so, you know, we're just, so what leading in our thinking? Yeah, so leading your thinking. So, I mean, Winston Churchill, is he another example of a great political communicator? Oh brilliant. And so what did he do brilliantly? Like we've identified trump strings. What were he string? Well, in those days, it was a lot of voice, wasn't it? And he, and he did that slowing down. We will fight them. And he also did a lot of where the air continued to flow. He didn't, um, you know, break it up as many speakers do today. And they go tight and broken, um, you know, completely the opposite. It had that warmth and space in the back of the throat, which gives you resonance. He also did, um, a bit of breathiness shows how much you care. So adding a little bit of breathiness. And so why does the, uh, not be, I mean, being static, obviously sounds bad. But what is the benefit? What are you communicating by speaking like Winston Churchill? Well, we don't speak like Winston Winston. It's a bit like, uh, a nonverbal research will tell you that the voice of leadership has three qualities. And those qualities are it's low in pitch. It's loud in volume. And it's slow. Now, um, Margaret Thatcher trained herself to do that. Trained to be low. Yeah, she had a low voice. Yeah. No, she did not. Uh, so she trained to go down. But what she did was, of course, all of that research was done on men's voices. So, of course, the voice of leadership was lost or allowed. It was a man's voice and a deep voice. She faked her voice. But that voice is actually outside the normal range of my voice. And if people go out and do that in today's world, I've run just go, you all right? Are you all right? It worked for her work for her in those times. It definitely works for men. Like it also happens naturally. Like my team literally teased me because if I answer the phone or, um, like, if I'm not speaking to them, where I'm essentially friends with them, I'm talking like this. But my voice, uh, whatever tone or whatever it is, drops dramatically. And I went, yeah, dramatically, instantaneously. And not, not on purpose. No. It's just, my body does it. If I answer the phone, if I'm in a big meeting, if I'm thinking, and I can feel that my voice goes down to, I know my brain's telling my body, drop your voice because, um, you need to, you need to sound more dominant or more powerful or more, whatever it's telling it, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not literally telling it, but my body does it. So it's a natural thing. I, I know that, you know, at home, I'd be talking, yelling at the dog or something and a bit like Barnaby Joyce, you know, sit down and shut up for something. And then the phone rings and you go, hello, this is Louise. And the voice changes. Some people just haven't brought that up to awareness though. And that's another example of changing state. And people don't have that change state. Um, technique, it's just a technique. And just speaking then about, um, women and, and finding more of their voice, what is it? Like, what, what are the, um, obviously, men's voices you're saying is, is deep, slow and whatever she said, how do women project power and confidence? Look, what we're all aiming to do, men and women is to bring our very best voice to the engagement. You're not trying to fake it to make it or be anyone else. It's no, ah, where your voice sits and then speak at that pitch. Um, I, for instance, have a visual preference. I love to think in visual. That means my eyes go up, often my hands go up and my voice go up. So what? Now, I have to be aware of that because that doesn't work. That does not work in what regard in speaking. Well, a very high voice would be seen as, um, too girly, too girly and not dominant enough, not enough leadership. I'm very comfortable speaking there. I'm five for ten. It doesn't suit me. Uh, and so I have to learn to stay where my voice sits at its most natural place and I'll get caught up. I'll go, oh, and I have to bring it down. Again, but I'm not going down into man's voice. I'm trying to keep it where my voice sits. That most comfortably. And do you think, um, um, do women have different challenges than men when it comes to communicating more effectively, or men and women, you find, based on your experience in educating them and consulting for them, that they've got very similar challenges. I know, women are way behind the eight ball, and the reason they're behind the eight ball, where do we start? You know, it starts at, I love that interview, a scenario where they sit down to interview a man. I think this is from Northern Europe, and they say to the man, "Do you think that your looks have been an aspect in your career progression?" You know, and the man's going, "Sorry, what?" But you know, these are the kind of questions women get all the time and the kind of situations that women have. As a consequence, I think many women have had some really challenging experiences, and that's kind of made them protective with their voice, or even made it boys go up at the end of the sentence. So what that does at the end of every sentence, is it turns it into a question, and that's just so weakening, but it's so non-threatening, and so I'm constantly being non-threatening, and it's awful. It's a complete career blockage, and the other one I have to say is the vocal fry, and sometimes we don't do vocal fry permanently, but we do it at the end of a sentence. And women do that? Yes, they do. And much more important. So it's not just me, not just you. May you never forget it. Wow, I just, I'm trying to figure out if us doing this episode now today is a great thing or a terrible thing, because it's either going to make me a ruin to life. Yeah. Yeah, we are. No, you definitely have ruined my life. You made my life better, because I am now, even in podcast, I'm going to sit up like that, and I always sat down like that, because it was comfortable, because sitting for a long time and I'm moving, it wasn't a conscious, like, I'm not interested. It was more of a just habit of I'm comfortable sitting here, I'm resting on the table, and I can sit here and look at you for an hour and talk. But sitting up, which I have not done in a while, has felt more enjoyable in terms of conversation. No, what I'm concerned about is, am I going to be trying these, well, I have had a lot of speaking. I was very nervous. I still can get, I don't get nervous, but I do feel my energy levels, like my energy level will be lower before I do something, and then it will get bigger, naturally. I don't know if that's nerves, but I don't know it's nerves, or if it's the body conserving itself so that it can release a bunch of energy. Today, I'm going to have it back in my mind, should I try this now? Should I do this? Should I sit like this? Should I put my hand in? I'm going to put it in. I probably will, because I end up having fun and then it becomes funny for you, but it will throw you off, because the first time you do anything, it stops your natural thinking and you're like, because you're consciously doing it and you're like, I would get rid of the word natural. Most of what we do is habitual, not that is natural. No, it's not. I mean, because if you learned, if your habit is to do it, it comes naturally. When you use the word natural, but it's not actually natural, it's not what you're born doing, it's a habit that you've developed, which now feels natural, but when you're trying and you have it, so when you're trying to break your habit, you have to logically break it. You can't just naturally break it, so when you logically break it, it throws you off a question, or what you were going to say next or how you, you know what I mean, that's where practice comes. There's a rule. And I always ask people to practice when they go to the coffee shop and walk in, stop at the counter, open their arms and say, could I have a cappuccino, please, that's where you need to practice. I'm going to do that now. And the rule of thumb is, if you are going on stage into a performance environment and you have to be thinking of these things really strongly, it's too late. So I would put it to you. You have a practice enough. If you haven't practiced enough, don't do it. Yeah, I box and it's the same concept. It's like, if you're having to think about what you need to do, it's going to be too late. That's right. But you have to practice enough that you're not thinking about what you do. Yeah. And then the other two practices, my favourite phrase, the amateur practices until they get it right. The professional practices until they can't get it wrong. I love that. I was saying that's a great place to finish this episode. But great. Thank you so much. That was amazing. You're so, easy to talk to. Sorry. You're so easy to speak with. Thank you. Well, I've had a lot of practice. But to our listeners, if you want to get in contact with Louise, you can go to club.port/podcast and find her contact details there and company there. Louise, thank you so much once again. Thank you, Daniel. And I'll ask you, if you come watch this afternoon, I'll see what you say. I don't know if I'm happy about you being there or not happy about you being there. But I'll ask you. I'll ask you after. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed the show.